Continuation:

In Venezuela their new Constitution guarantees human rights, not corporate rights.

In Venezuela their constitution was originally drafted with term limits. It was amended to accommodate one individual. So it guarantees the perpetuation in power indefinitely of that one individual.

Our Constitution was written by slaveowners to protect property rights, including the rights of owners of human property.

It is an imperfect document written with a mindset that doesn’t reflect our times but the times of slave-owners. Certainly we can agree that a new constitutional congress is long overdue.

And slavery has never been abolished here.

Sure we have wage slaves. Poverty is a form of slavery, yes. We have common ground there.

We still have the death penalty as punishment for a crime,

Yes, I agree that is wrong.

and we still have slavery as Constitutionally legal punishment for a crime.

Slavery, as that we send prisoners to pick cotton and sell them on the auction block to the highest bidder. Just imagine prostitutes being auctioned on a block to be domestic servants. You’re really going off the deep end here my friend.

If it is legal punishment for a crime, whether it is the death penalty or slavery, it has not been abolished.

Obviously you have given a very subjective definition to slavery.

Slavery has been abolished in Venezuela

have you ever looked into conditions in a Venezuelan prison? Slavery to poverty and to the oligarchs or in the case of Venezuela the Boligarchs still exists and remains prevalent.

and they don’t have a gulag disproportionally full of people of color as we do.

Most of the people in Venezuela are from the poor classes as they are here. There is no difference there. Most of them we would consider people of color just as they are here. Again, no difference. A difference may be that you would have a better chance of coming out alive from an American prison than a Venezuelan prison.

They have large numbers of women and people of color in government, not just a handful of tokens who are corporate puppets.

But of course. Venezuela is largely a country of color.

The right wing loves the U.S. government, defends Hasbara (Israeli government propaganda), and hates Chavez.

Really? I always had the impression that that the right-wing was largely indifferent to Chavez in spite of all the clamoring for attention that Chavez exhibits. If the right-wing really hated Chavez he would have been taken out under Bush. For one thing I know this lefty really doesn’t like Chavez, I would not call it hate, just intense dislike.

The left criticizes the U.S. government, questions Hasbara (a friend of mine calls it Hasbaragus because only a vegetable would believe it),

Yes, yes. I am very critical of the US government

and supports Chavez.

and very critical of Chavez. I take no prisoners. All politicians are game.

The United States is no longer the world’s sole stupidpower—Israel is now a contender for the title.

As is Venezuela.

Mark E. Smith, June 11 at 5:52 pm #

Anything pro-Chavez is propaganda?

Boy we’re getting defensive here. I’ve given Chavez credit were due but you just want to ignore that. So you rationalize in absolutes.

What about pro-democracy?

What about it?

Pro-socialist?

Is being pro-socialist self-serving?

Anything that isn’t pro-fascist is propaganda?

Again, you expose yourself as someone who prefers to rationalize in absolutes.

My friends in Venezuela aren’t Jewish, but my relatives living there are. And they could move to the U.S. any time they wished, but they haven’t.

What does being Jewish or not being Jewish have to do with anything?

Chavez isn’t perfect, he’s a human being. But he isn’t waging wars of aggression as Obama is,

Yes, he is. Mr. Chavez is waging asymmetrical warfare against those in the region that do not want to sign up to his Bolivarian imperialist project. His support of the FARC guerrilla groups in Colombia who smuggle drugs into the US and Europe has destabilized the region and specially Mexico. Destabilized our border and has entrenched the right in Colombia making it practically impossible for a more socially progressive government to come into power in that country.

he is on the side of the poor,<i>

<i>rather than on the side of the oligarchy and the multinational corporations as Obama is,

yet he sells just under 20% of all the oil to the US supporting that very same oligarchy stay in power.

and he has condemned the Israeli massacre aboard the Mavi Marmara and called for a full independent investigation, which Obama has not and will not.

Here you go again repeating the same mantra. I’ve already addressed this.

There are electrical shortages in Iraq also, which there weren’t until after we invaded and occupied their country.

So using your premise of rationalization you were a Saddam Hussein supporter.

Our imperialist exploitation of poor countries is what causes their poverty.

Not entirely.

We send our CIA and death squads and military in if they dare to try to stop the multinational corporations that run our government from stealing their resources,

We had plenty of local help.

as we’ve been doing for decades (read General Smedley Butler’s 1933 speech, “War is a Racket”) and then we denigrate them for not being as rich as we are.

Yes war is a racket. I’m a pacifist. Denigrate them for not being as rich as we are? I thought you said that we were in poverty because of Obama. You’re contradicting yourself here.

Venezuela, at least, is run by a human being, not by a corporate puppet.

Yes autocrats and dictators are human beings. Corporate puppets are human beings. Corporations are also run by human beings. Come to think of it, everything that has to do with human institutions, whether public or private, is run by human beings.

Smitty:
“Chavez isn’t perfect, ...But he is on the side of the poor”. Yes he is, and he wants to make sure everyone gets that way.

“he has condemned the Israeli massacre aboard the Mavi Marmara” Wait. Didn’t you say in an earlier post the Mavi Marmara wasn’t even there? Which is it?

“In Venezuela their new Constitution guarantees human rights”. Every constitution on earth guarantees “human rights”. Big whoop.

“And slavery has never been abolished here. ... and we still have slavery as Constitutionally legal punishment for a crime.” ARE YOU NUTS?!!!!

I nevere cease to be amazed at the ability of people to twist the plain meaning of plain words.

Anything pro-Chavez is propaganda?

What about pro-democracy?

Pro-socialist?

Anything that isn’t pro-fascist is propaganda?

My friends in Venezuela aren’t Jewish, but my relatives living there are. And they could move to the U.S. any time they wished, but they haven’t.

Chavez isn’t perfect, he’s a human being. But he isn’t waging wars of aggression as Obama is, he is on the side of the poor, rather than on the side of the oligarchy and the multinational corporations as Obama is, and he has condemned the Israeli massacre aboard the Mavi Marmara and called for a full independent investigation, which Obama has not and will not.

There are electrical shortages in Iraq also, which there weren’t until after we invaded and occupied their country. Our imperialist exploitation of poor countries is what causes their poverty. We send our CIA and death squads and military in if they dare to try to stop the multinational corporations that run our government from stealing their resources, as we’ve been doing for decades (read General Smedley Butler’s 1933 speech, “War is a Racket”) and then we denigrate them for not being as rich as we are. Venezuela, at least, is run by a human being, not by a corporate puppet. In Venezuela their new Constitution guarantees human rights, not corporate rights. Our Constitution was written by slaveowners to protect property rights, including the rights of owners of human property.

And slavery has never been abolished here. We still have the death penalty as punishment for a crime, and we still have slavery as Constitutionally legal punishment for a crime. If it is legal punishment for a crime, whether it is the death penalty or slavery, it has not been abolished. Slavery has been abolished in Venezuela and they don’t have a gulag disproportionally full of people of color as we do. They have large numbers of women and people of color in government, not just a handful of tokens who are corporate puppets.

The right wing loves the U.S. government, defends Hasbara (Israeli government propaganda), and hates Chavez. The left criticizes the U.S. government, questions Hasbara (a friend of mine calls it Hasbaragus because only a vegetable would believe it), and supports Chavez. The United States is no longer the world’s sole stupidpower—Israel is now a contender for the title.

By Mark E. Smith, June 11 at 4:34 pm #

I have friends and family and Venezuela and I don’t have to go by propaganda.

I really find that hard to believe.

Pro-Chavez propaganda is what you are spewing here.

Mark E. Smith, June 11 at 3:32 pm #

You make my point precisely, albeit inadvertently.

There is nothing on which I agree with our president. I oppose the bailouts, the decision to open up more offshore oil drilling, the decision to grant environmental waivers to repeat violators, the wars of aggression, torture, warrantless wiretapping, extrajudicial assassination, allowing insurance corporations to control health care access, refusing to condemn the military coup in Honduras, renouncing the Nuremberg Principles, and everything else he does.

I agree with everything you posted here in this paragraph except your comment on Honduras. You see I took the time to read the Honduran Constitution. So how can we agree on everything except this little detail. Precisely the point I made in my previous post to you.

Chavez has not only received many awards from professional U.S. oil associations for CITGO’s outstanding safety record,

Kudos for Mr. Chavez on his awards. Again, you make my point from my previous post.

but he has reduced severe poverty in Venezuela by 90% (poverty here has increased under Obama), eradicated illiteracy (something we haven’t done),

Here I will disagree. This issue was addressed in another post under Jay1953. No country has eradicated illiteracy 100%. The increases in literacy in Venezuela has followed similar patterns of increase in literacy as other Latin American countries. So to attribute this to any one individual is rather disingenuous because there are other forces at play. Poverty in Venezuela is still overwhelming as reflected by the increase crime rates in Venezuela. Caracas has the highest crime rate in South America and is second only to Ciudad Juarez in homicides in all of Latin America. In the meantime Chavez is spending billions on Russian armaments and there are chronic power outages, lack of running water and food shortages.

Poverty in the US has been increasing for the last 30 years, not just under Obama who has been on watch for 1 and half years out of that 30. So to attribute all the increases in poverty in the US only to Obama is just as irrational as attributing all the increases in literacy just to Chavez.

and has also done exactly what you wish Obama would do with respect to Israel.

Oh! so now I have to be a Chavez worshiper like you? We may agree on this issue for different reasons. Mine reasons may be one of morality and justice for Palestinians. Mr. Chavez reasons may just be an expression and extension of his anti-Americanism since the US supports Israel unconditionally which I don’t agree with. It doesn’t make me anti-American. We both reached the same conclusion of agreement but for different reasons.

There is now strong evidence that the IDF video was faked:

That may well be. I don’t see how that would change my opinion of Chavez.

I make sure to watch the video for myself. Form my own opinion, which may coincide with yours.

Chavez has called for a full and impartial investigation. Obama has not.

Again, kudos for Chavez. As there are others calling for a full and impartial investigation. So join the club even though one may not like all of its members.

Not all people are the same and not all presidents are the same. To condemn a president who does what you want done, while making excuses for a president who does not, is irrational. Some people are capable of thinking logically and acting morally, and some are not.

Really, where did I make excuses for Obama? When I said that all presidents are killers. Seems that the only one making excuses is you. Some people are capable of thinking logically and acting morally, and some are not is precisely my point. Think outside of your pigeonhole.

You are, of course, free to believe whatever you wish.

I have friends and family and Venezuela and I don’t have to go by propaganda.

My post with the link is still here, so I don’t think the website was blacklisted. People who already have their minds made up won’t look at it—those capable of critical thinking will look at the pictures and decide for themselves.

I think the photos raise a lot of questions.

Mr Smith:

I checked out the link you posted. Now, far be from me to question the neutrality and balance of a self described “Conspiracy” website named “whatdef…org”. But you base your opinion on the musings of two of their posters and a few grainy photos. God are you gullible.

Besides, if the whole thing was a hoax, why the hell is the world so wrapped around the axle. And what ship were the nine dead humanitarians on if not Mavi Maramara?

And Hugo Chavez? Ask the Venezuelans who go without electricty for hours at a time how Hugo’s doing. Ask the head of the Venezuelan Workers’ Union… oh, wait a minute… there is no Workers’ Union. Ask the Venezuelans how much opposition literature they can get their hands on so they can use those valuable literacy skills. There is severe poverty in Venezuela??? Who could imagine such a thing? HAS poverty increased in the US? I know the definition of poverty has changed to include those who lack a DVD player and only have one cellphone, so maybe you’re right about that. Ask the Venezuelans why there are so many Cubans running high level bureaucracies in Venezuela.

Finally. How much humanitarian aid has Hugo sent the Palestinians?

Wait not finally. This is cool- I tried to submit this post and I got this big flag saying I couldn’t because the website you use for your argument “whatde…” is BLACKLISTED by truthdig! I had to type dots instead of the name.

Smitty, you need to move in from the fringe a little.

There is nothing on which I agree with our president. I oppose the bailouts, the decision to open up more offshore oil drilling, the decision to grant environmental waivers to repeat violators, the wars of aggression, torture, warrantless wiretapping, extrajudicial assassination, allowing insurance corporations to control health care access, refusing to condemn the military coup in Honduras, renouncing the Nuremberg Principles, and everything else he does.

Chavez has not only received many awards from professional U.S. oil associations for CITGO’s outstanding safety record, but he has reduced severe poverty in Venezuela by 90% (poverty here has increased under Obama), eradicated illiteracy (something we haven’t done), and has also done exactly what you wish Obama would do with respect to Israel.

There is now strong evidence that the IDF video was faked:

http://info-wars.org/2010/06/10/video-israel-defense-force-video-of-siege-of-‘mavi-marmara’-hoaxed/

Some of the reasons given are:

1. The video, which is supposed to be infra-red, has half-tones, which infra-red video would not.

2. The shape of the radar dome is different.

3. The lifeboat hoists are missing.

4. The name of the ship is missing.

5. The pipes are wielded in slow motion.

6. The commando is being lowered into a lifeboat, not thrown overboard.

7. The painted-over words on a sister ship, that were never on the Mavi Marmara, are visible.

8. The awning structure is missing.

Compare the photos at the above link. Was the video faked?

Chavez has called for a full and impartial investigation. Obama has not.

Not all people are the same and not all presidents are the same. To condemn a president who does what you want done, while making excuses for a president who does not, is irrational. Some people are capable of thinking logically and acting morally, and some are not.

zevahc:
That is one the best, most reasoned posts I’ve ever read on TD. Well struck sir.

Yes it is a nice pipe-dream to have a president do the right thing. The president which I fantasize having is the president that would be the president of my country, that other president you refer to is not the president of my country. Even so, both are open to objective criticism.

As to your references to the “moral president” that you appear to admire. The views that have been expressed under the handle “tihsstaezevahc” and the handle “Jay1953” basically outline my position as to my opinion of your so called “moral president”. So if you’re interested in those views you can do a search for comments under those handles. For the sake of not being repetitive I won’t post them here. If you’re not interested that’s fine too.

Let me point out what I perceive to be the flaw with your argument. As presidents go morality is subjective as it is with many individuals. There are many common areas of agreement that I have with your “moral president” and there are many areas of disagreement. Where there is agreement doesn’t automatically mean that by default I have to have blanket agreement with what are the issues that don’t agree with.

This the fault that I find with your argument, that one concludes the other. It is a double standard because I’m sure there are areas that you disagree on with our president and areas you agree with. I would assume that you articulate those agreements and disagreements with our president with absolutely no conflict. And yet you find conflict when the same rationalization is applied to someone you have decided to idolize and find no fault with.

So my question is why would you give one a blank check and not the other? If Hitler liked German Shepperd dogs then by the logic of your argument that would make everyone that likes German Shepperd dogs NAZI’s. It is not rational, but yet this is the rationalization in the arguments I get from those that rationalize as you are doing. So I get from you the same argument based on that flawed morally subjective premise. 

So that doesn’t mean that if I’m in agreement with your “moral president” on one issue that I must agree with him on all issues or that everything your “moral president” agrees with I have to take an opposite position because I have issues of disagreement. That makes no logical sense. So on morality 2 persons that dislike each other can take subjective positions and be in total agreement in spite of their disdain for each other. Or they can be in total disagreement and in total love for each other as is the case for members of the same family. It happens all the time. It’s a human thing.

Finally, I will say that all presidents are either killers or potential killers. Directly or indirectly they are making life or death decisions all the time. In the case of our 2 presidents in discussion here both are killers.  Directly or indirectly. Both are making life or death decisions all the time. It is better not to have any heroes, your disappointments will be less.

Nice daydream.

Dennis Kucinich has the same fantasy.

Kucinich wrote:

“No one questions the right of Israel to defend its border, but that defense does not extend to shooting innocent civilians anywhere in the world, anytime it pleases.”

It doesn’t? But the United States reserves that right to itself, so why shouldn’t it extend that right to its allies?

What else were Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

What else are our death squads throughout Latin America?

What else are our operations in Afghanistan and our drones in Pakistan?

What else is Obama’s authorization of the extrajudicial assassination of a U.S. citizen he considers to be a terrorist?

Dennis is apparently a very nice guy and I believed that he was anti-war until just before he dropped out of the ‘08 race, when he announced that his candidacy was a long shot, that both Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama were his friends, and that he would throw his support to whichever of them won the nomination. Since both of them were known to be pro-war, it was obvious that Kucinich was anti-war only when it was politically expedient, but was otherwise a political party animal willing to sacrifice millions of innocent civilians if it would help his party gain power.

Strange though, reading your name backwards, the President you are crudely insulting has already condemned Israel’s murder of unarmed civilians. You know yourself that your fantasy president never will.

Yes, it would be great if we had a moral President, but for that to happen we’d have to be a moral country. We’re not.

Why do you insult a moral President who not only has the balls, but has already done the right thing, and invent fantasies about a president who doesn’t and won’t?

My fellow Americans

tonight as your president I am compelled to address you in regards to the humanitarian crisis taking place in Gaza. Once again, as in the past in the USS Liberty incident and the Rachel Corrie murder, Israeli forces have taken another American life. A young man of 19 years old was shot execution style in the head 3 times by Israeli security forces boarding a flotilla of unarmed ships, in international waters, on a humanitarian mission to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza who are the victims of intentional starvation by Israel.

This young American, an example of heroism for his fellow countrymen whose only transgression was to try to help fellow human beings in need, was only following his conscience in his attempts to do what he believed to be right. The goodwill of this young man was cut brutally short by those intent on taking the lives of innocent civilians. As your president I believe the time has come for America to do what is right. Our sincerest respect and condolences to his family, loved ones and friends. As your president it will be my goal to see to it that this young American did not die in vain.

The seriousness of this matter can not be overlooked by this administration. I have ordered the Navy of the United States to escort and protect the lives of innocent civilians on future humanitarian aid convoys into Gaza so as to provide destitute civilians relief and that this incident is not repeated.

As of now by executive order I have cancelled all arms sales to the State of Israel since the use of American weapons to intentionally attack unarmed civilians has been repeatedly violated as is the condition on the sale of those weapons. I have also cancelled all foreign aid to Israel and future trade agreements will be put on hold. The grievousness of this incident can not be allowed to stand and by executive order I have frozen all Israeli assets in the United States. These conditions will remain in effect until Israel stops its aggression on the civilians in Gaza and the West Bank and pays restitution to the families of the flotilla’s victims. Until Israel agrees to sit down to a comprehensive peace with the Palestinian people these executive orders will stand.

In addition Israel must dismantle all settlements in the occupied territories before economic aid can resume as they are in violation of international law. Tomorrow the US ambassador in the UN will seek a condemnation of this horrendous act of aggression on the high seas and for Israel aggression on civilians. As in the past we expect Israel will ignore condemnations but this time we will put teeth behind them. The United States of America seeks international cooperation as to not lessen the impact of these measures and will reconsider it’s relations with countries that attempt to undermine our efforts for peace.

Let me be clear, the US will do whatever is necessary to break the gridlock in peace talks and demands that Israel stop the madness.

Thank You

Good night and may god bless America.

PS. Wouldn’t it be great if we had a president with the balls to do the right thing.

Ed:
“I have difficulty imagining the world view
of someone to whom such a point has to be made.”

I’m sure you do. I’m sure you do.

On second thought, I guess I can give you some advice. No matter how much your right-wing friends may irritate you, it is probably not a good idea to adopt an “Israeli policy” and shoot them. If they can’t be reasoned with, get yourself some better friends.

Sorry, David Perfect, but since I don’t have any right-wing friends, I can’t give you any advice on how to deal with them. I’ve got enough problems dealing with friends who consider themselves liberals, progressives, or on the left, and keep trying to justify the fact that they all ignored my warnings and voted for Obama. 

Re:By rico, suave, June 10 at 10:38 am:

I guess I’m glad the point is taken, but I have difficulty imagining the world view
of someone to whom such a point has to be made.

Ed:

Point taken. But I’m not sure the US endorses and defends the “crime”, regardless of what Joe the Blowtorch belches, by virtue of its financial support to Israel. I guess since “we” elect officials who maintain our posture toward Israel, “we” are as guilty of the crime as Israel.

re:By rico, suave, June 9 at 7:31 pm:

Rico writes: “Why don’t you get this worked up
when a suicide bomber kills a market full of shoppers,
“guilty of absolutely no crime whatsover”, in Baghdad?

Um, gee, any number of reasons….

Like maybe, because my own government doesn’t endorse and defend the
Baghdad crime? Because the Baghdad crime is not committed by a lavishly
funded client government of the United States, against an American citizen?
Because our own vice president doesn’t publicly excuse the Baghdad killers,
asking, “What’s the big deal?”

I know you say you’re not Jewish, hon, but really—I can’t imagine what else
explains your capacity to make, in all earnestness, such an outrageously inapt
parallel.

The Real Threat Aboard the Freedom Flotilla

By Noam Chomsky

“June 08, 2010 “In These Times” - -Israel’s violent attack on the Freedom Flotilla carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza shocked the world.

Hijacking boats in international waters and killing passengers is, of course, a serious crime.

But the crime is nothing new. For decades, Israel has been hijacking boats between Cyprus and Lebanon and killing or kidnapping passengers, sometimes holding them hostage in Israeli prisons.

Israel assumes that it can commit such crimes with impunity because the United States tolerates them and Europe generally follows the U.S.’s lead.

As the editors of The Guardian rightly observed on June 1, “If an armed group of Somali pirates had yesterday boarded six vessels on the high seas, killing at least 10 passengers and injuring many more, a NATO task force would today be heading for the Somali coast.” In this case, the NATO treaty obligates its members to come to the aid of a fellow NATO country—Turkey—attacked on the high seas.

Israel’s pretext for the attack was that the Freedom Flotilla was bringing materials that Hamas could use for bunkers to fire rockets into Israel.

The pretext isn’t credible. Israel can easily end the threat of rockets by peaceful means.

The background is important. Hamas was designated a major terrorist threat when it won a free election in January 2006. The U.S. and Israel sharply escalated their punishment of Palestinians, now for the crime of voting the wrong way.

The siege of Gaza, including a naval blockade, was a result. The siege intensified sharply in June 2007 after a civil war left Hamas in control of the territory.

What is commonly described as a Hamas military coup was in fact incited by the U.S. and Israel, in a crude attempt to overturn the elections that had brought Hamas to power.

That has been public knowledge at least since April 2008, when David Rose reported in Vanity Fair that George W. Bush, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and her deputy, Elliott Abrams, “backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever.”

Hamas terror included launching rockets into nearby Israeli towns—criminal, without a doubt, though only a minute fraction of routine U.S.-Israeli crimes in Gaza.

In June 2008, Israel and Hamas reached a cease-fire agreement. The Israeli government formally acknowledges that until Israel broke the agreement on Nov. 4 of that year, invading Gaza and killing half a dozen Hamas activists, Hamas did not fire a single rocket.

Hamas offered to renew the cease-fire. The Israeli cabinet considered the offer and rejected it, preferring to launch its murderous invasion of Gaza on Dec.27.

Like other states, Israel has the right of self-defense. But did Israel have the right to use force in Gaza in the name of self-defense? International law, including the U.N. Charter, is unambiguous: A nation has such a right only if it has exhausted peaceful means. In this case such means were not even tried, although—or perhaps because—there was every reason to suppose that they would succeed.

Thus the invasion was sheer criminal aggression, and the same is true of Israel’s resorting to force against the flotilla.

The siege is savage, designed to keep the caged animals barely alive so as to fend off international protest, but hardly more than that. It is the latest stage of longstanding Israeli plans, backed by the U.S., to separate Gaza from the West Bank.

The Israeli journalist Amira Hass, a leading specialist on Gaza, outlines the history of the process of separation: “The restrictions on Palestinian movement that Israel introduced in January 1991 reversed a process that had been initiated in June 1967.”

===
Click on link for the rest:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25666.htm

Diablo:
“Nice that they’re being paid with my tax dollars to spew their Zionist propaganda.”

First, let me guess that you don’t pay a lot of taxes.

Second, I’m not getting paid by anybody.

Third, show me ANYTHING I have posted that gives you the idea that I am a zionist.

When a suicide bomber blows up a market full of shoppers I have to ask why?

Usually there’s a reason and I don’t believe its 72 virgins.

My, my.  Israel’s “Mega-Phonies” are out in force today (rico, et. al.)  Nice that
they’re being paid with my tax dollars to spew their Zionist propaganda.

Ed:
“Israel killed an American citizen who was guilty of absolutely no crime whatsover…”

Why don’t you get this worked up when a suicide bomber kills a market full of shoppers, “guilty of absolutely no crime whatsover”, in Baghdad?

Hint: “You’re a stupid moron” is not an answer?

The head of the Free Gaza organization
has given an interview in which she refutes,
with admirable concision, the ridiculous notion
that since a few some of these unarmed passengers
fought back, they deserved what the IDF did to them.

She shows how utterly asinine Israel’s defenders are in making this argument,
even without mentioning the fact that in the couple of cases where passengers
did manage to seize firearms from their cowardly Israeli attackers, the enraged
passengers didn’t use the weapons they had seized, but instead simply
removed the bullets and put the guns out of reach, or threw them overboard:

Q: Did the activists provoke the Israeli commandos into using deadly force?

When such unjustified violence is used against a civilian vessel, in international
waters, which poses no threat to Israel’s security, it is not always possible to
control the response of some people who are scared, angry, and who may wish
to defend themselves.

http://original.antiwar.com/frykberg/2010/06/08/well-be-back-with-
bigger-flotillas/

I can’t believe that the UN Security Council just voted for sanctions against Iran. I thought I’d misread it and had to read it over three times. Not Israel, Iran. The UN is rewarding Israel by punishing Iran.

This is insanity. The UN is worse than useless as a force for world peace. It is now a force for wars of aggression. That’s disgusting.

These are just the first toddling baby steps of the two newest babies on the block.
Kill baby kill. Apologize baby apologize, but go baby go on stealing thretening, occupying, attacking.

And as the two babies get more frustrated ab our and some muslim disobedience and lack of obeisance for the two new babies, expect their much greater rage.
Also spricht mein satan!

In short, up with ‘jewish’ wall and dwn with chinese!
tnx
PS, i say tnx even tho devil says that i shld not thank anyone!

Even when controlling the entire story, Israel couldn’t keep it straight. The first accounts by Israel were intended to blame the fatalities on terrorists aboard the ship. A story in Haaretz claimed that Israeli soldiers found 9mm bullet casings aboard the Mavi Marmara of a type that the Israeli commandos didn’t use.

But then Israel claimed credit for the killings, which autopsies found were all caused by 9mm bullets, even saying that one of the commandos, Staff Sargeant S, killed six of the passengers himself and deserves a medal. So he must have been using 9mm bullets and I don’t think that he would have used a gun that he grabbed from a passenger and then thrown it overboard to deny Israel the evidence that the passengers had 9mm guns. It was his gun and it was a 9mm weapon.

He didn’t claim credit for the other three deaths, but they were caused by the same 9mm ammunition, so at least one other commando was using 9mm ammunition. With total control of the media, the best Israel could do was tell an obvious lie.

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2010/06/09/some-stunt/

Amy Goodman, you are a national treasure. My schedule is always arranged around “Democracy Now”.

Just had to slip that in.

Israel killed an American citizen who was guilty of absolutely no crime whatsover,
and our government peeps not the slightest complaint about it, for fear of the
Israel lobby. Israel owns our asses and I’m sick to my guts of this. The United
States needs to end its support of this insane bunch of pit bulls who absurdly
claim to be a light unto the nations.