Top Leaderboard, Site wide
Shop the Truthdig Gift Guide 2014
December 18, 2014
Truthdig: Drilling Beneath the Headlines
Sign up for Truthdig's Email NewsletterLike Truthdig on FacebookFollow Truthdig on TwitterSubscribe to Truthdig's RSS Feed

Get Truthdig's headlines in your inbox!


What Is Chuck Schumer Up To?






Truthdig Bazaar
Critical Thinking Unleashed

Critical Thinking Unleashed

By Elliot D. Cohen
$39.10

more items

 
Report

The End of the Fox News Era?

Email this item Email    Print this item Print    Share this item... Share

Posted on Jul 25, 2010

By E.J. Dionne, Jr.

The smearing of Shirley Sherrod ought to be a turning point in American politics. This is not, as the now trivialized phrase has it, a “teachable moment.” It is a time for action.

The mainstream media and the Obama administration alike must stop cowering before a right wing that has persistently forced its own propaganda to be accepted as news by persuading traditional journalists that “fairness” requires treating extremist rants as “one side of the story.”

And there can be no more shilly-shallying about the fact that racial backlash politics is becoming an important component of the campaign against President Obama, and against progressives in this year’s election.

The administration’s response to the doctored video pushed by right-wing hit man Andrew Breitbart was shameful. The obsession with “protecting” the president turned out to be the least protective approach of all.

The first reaction of the Obama team was not to question, let alone challenge, the video. Instead, it assumed that whatever narrative Fox News might create mattered more than anything else, including the possible innocence of a human being outside the president’s inner circle. She could be sacrificed without a thought.

Advertisement

Square, Site wide
Obama complained on ABC’s “Good Morning America” that Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack “jumped the gun, partly because we now live in this media culture where something goes up on YouTube or a blog and everybody scrambles.” But it’s his own apparatus that turned “this media culture” into a false god.

Yet the Obama team was reacting to a reality: the bludgeoning of mainstream journalism into looking timorously over its right shoulder and believing that “balance” demands taking seriously whatever sludge the far right is pumping into the political waters.

This goes way back. Al Gore never actually said he “invented the Internet,” but you could be forgiven for not knowing this because the mainstream media kept reporting he had.

There were no “death panels” in the Democratic health care bills. But this false charge got so much coverage that last August, an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll found that 45 percent of Americans thought the reform proposals would likely allow “the government to make decisions about when to stop providing medical care to the elderly.” That was the summer when support for reform was dropping precipitously. A straight-out lie influenced the course of one of our most important debates.

The traditional media are so petrified of being called “liberal” that they are prepared to allow the Breitbarts of the world to become their assignment editors. Mainstream journalists regularly criticize themselves for not jumping fast enough or high enough when the Fox crowd demands coverage of one of their attack lines.

Thus did Andrew Alexander, The Washington Post’s ombudsman, ask why the paper had been slow to report on, as he put it, “the Justice Department’s decision to scale down a voter-intimidation case against members of the New Black Panther Party.”

Never mind that this is a story about a tiny group of crackpots who stopped no one from voting. It was aimed at doing what the doctored video Breitbart posted set out to do: persuade Americans that the Obama administration favors blacks over whites.

And never mind that, to her great credit, Abigail Thernstrom, a conservative George W. Bush appointee to the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, dismissed the case and those pushing it. “This doesn’t have to do with the Black Panthers,” she told Politico’s Ben Smith. “This has to do with their fantasies about how they could use this issue to topple the [Obama] administration.”

Instead, the media are supposed to take seriously the charges of J. Christian Adams, who served in the Bush Justice Department. He’s a Republican activist going back to the Bill Clinton era. His party services included time as a Bush poll watcher in Florida in 2004, when on one occasion he was involved in a controversy over whether a black couple could cast a regular ballot.

Now, Adams is accusing the Obama Justice Department of being “motivated by a lawless hostility toward equal enforcement of the law.”

This is racially inflammatory, politically motivated nonsense—and it’s nonsense even if Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh talk about it a thousand times a day. When an outlandish charge for which there is no evidence is treated as an on-the-one-hand-on-the-other-hand issue, the liars win.

The Sherrod case should be the end of the line. If Obama hates the current media climate, he should stop overreacting to it. And the mainstream media should stop being afraid of insisting upon the difference between news and propaganda.

E.J. Dionne’s e-mail address is ejdionne(at)washpost.com.
   
© 2010, Washington Post Writers Group


New and Improved Comments

If you have trouble leaving a comment, review this help page. Still having problems? Let us know. If you find yourself moderated, take a moment to review our comment policy.

MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, September 2, 2010 at 4:15 pm Link to this comment

It is time to end the conservative FOX News Network and all conservative news networks that are only interested in continually keeping the public in the swampy choices of widgets, wiffelumps and woozels, all subjects of which the public have no need to know anything about what so ever, and totally leaving out any need to know information that would be beneficial to the common populace’s need to know in order to make informed decisions to serve their best interest with regard to personal choices and choices on a National level that affect the vision and course of the United States as a nation.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 26, 2010 at 8:11 pm Link to this comment

DaveZx3, August 16 at 8:27 pm Link to this comment

By ofersince72, August 16 at 2:54 am

“The next time you hear someone talk about how the
AZTECS were into mass human sacrifice…..ask them
how the HELL they know this…................!!! ! ! ! ! “

Don’t be naive.  The physical proof was the thousands of excavations done at the sites. Most of what we know about earlier civilizations comes from physical evidence found in excavations.

The Aztecs practiced human sacrifice.  It is a proven fact.  Visit the evidence.
**************************************

His mind’s made up. Don’t confuse him with facts.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 16, 2010 at 6:48 pm Link to this comment

About this same time there was a man named

  C E R V A N T E S

that was writing what a farse Europe was….

and it was,,,,,,,,slaves and kings.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 16, 2010 at 6:42 pm Link to this comment

As a matter of fact, FACT,  F A C T

about 90% of the Injuns in Latin America died from

the nasty , filthy dieseases that The Europeans brought

off their nasty ships from Europe, because the Injuns

weren’t immune to all those lice infested dieseases

Report this

By ofersince72, August 16, 2010 at 6:27 pm Link to this comment

By the way Europeans, especially you ITALIANS,

  THE INJUNS GAVE US TOMATOS TOOOOOOOOO.

What the hell were they eating in Europe before the
genocide?

  RATS, DOGS, CATS, PIGS…...and always had disease,

that they transferred to the Americas.  Because of their
diet of friggin meat all day and all night
And I believe the potatoe even came from the Americas
not sure on that one , but pretty sure.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 16, 2010 at 6:22 pm Link to this comment

The last thing that I want to visit is another
white crackers lie about a genocide,  especially about
some Injuns.  We have so many lies going on right at this
moment it is enough to turn you stomach, in fact it does
most the time.

  They gave us sweet potatoes, corn, watermelon,
most all melons are originated in the Americas,
as matter of fact, most of the staple foods that we know
and eat, they gave to us.
We gave them hell, death, disease, genocide, lies,
reservations,

Report this

By ofersince72, August 16, 2010 at 6:06 pm Link to this comment

I can visit the 9/11 site all day and all night long
too, and I still won’t know what happened, other than
what G. Bush II told me.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 16, 2010 at 6:02 pm Link to this comment

P.S.  The major spelling mis steak was puppose full.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 16, 2010 at 5:59 pm Link to this comment

Diaz del Casillo

first reported 83,000 all together…...

centuries later, those of European descent had to
adjust some figures down to about 2000 to make it seem
more realistic…....

There hasn’t been a damn bit of truth recorded about the
exploytation of the Americas, drink your Koolaid.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 16, 2010 at 5:54 pm Link to this comment

“And God didn’t make little green apples
  and it don’t rain in Indianapolis in the summer time”

  As I said….

T H E   A Z T E C   S Y N D O M E

is alive and doing well…
especially among Europeans and those of Europeans descent.

Report this

By DaveZx3, August 16, 2010 at 4:27 pm Link to this comment

By ofersince72, August 16 at 2:54 am

“The next time you hear someone talk about how the
AZTECS were into mass human sacrifice…..ask them
how the HELL they know this…................!!! ! ! ! ! “

Don’t be naive.  The physical proof was the thousands of excavations done at the sites. Most of what we know about earlier civilizations comes from physical evidence found in excavations. 

The Aztecs practiced human sacrifice.  It is a proven fact.  Visit the evidence.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 16, 2010 at 7:10 am Link to this comment

Cris wrote on the Isreali land grab this week.
I probably won’t contribute, or wait a few days too.

For this is the sexy issue now, and there are many, many
interested in this story.  It is a shame, and criminal.
The reason that I won’t comment much is I know everyone
is going to be blaming it all on Israel and act as if
the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA had nothing to do with this,
other than supply the weaponry for Israel in its land
grab. This story, (I don’t believe for Hedges) takes a
lot of heat off of America.  Everyone acts as if Israel
is acting on their own and thumbing their nose at the U.S.
The proper title of his weekly column shoud be,

THE MIDDLE EAST LAND GRAB BY AMERICA AND ISRAEL…
That would be more honest, but puts blame on America too,
and right now, journalists are more interested in
diverting any blame for anything from the UNITED STATES.
THE INJUNS know well about AMERICA’s involment in
land grabs.  They are brutal,  America will wipe out
a whole race in a land grab. Or as in the Philipines
during the war we improperly label as the SPANISH AMERICAN
war,  will commit genocide of any proportion to get
the job done.  In just a short period of time in this
decade, America was responsible for over a million IRAQI
deaths in one of their land grabs of this decade.
FOX, MSNBC, CBS, CNN, WAPO, NYT, ALL HELPED RIGHT ALONG
WITH THIS LAND GRAB FOR THE OVERLORDS USING AMERICAN
PUBLIC TAX PAYER MONEY TO DO SO ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Report this

By ofersince72, August 16, 2010 at 1:42 am Link to this comment

Americans of European decent don’t even know the
history of the Native Americans that were in New England
at the time of European settlement, how the hell would
they know about the AZTECS?

  We can’t even get yesterdays history right, how the
hell are we to know what happened five hundred years ago?

One of the points Howard Zinn wanted us to get out of
his history book! ! ! ! !!! ! ! !!! ! !  ,.<><>^^<><>

Report this

By ofersince72, August 15, 2010 at 11:07 pm Link to this comment

I am preaching to the choir on that one, ain’t I..


Injuns knew all about the A Z T E C   S Y N D R O M E

way before I did.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 15, 2010 at 11:01 pm Link to this comment

For those of you that missed what the

  A Z T E C   S Y N D R O M E

is…....the short version is as good as the long
drawn out version…

When a lie of history is told over and over again until
it becomes accepted information and all earthen varmits
believe it….that is the AZTEC SYNDOME.
Europeans and those of European decent seem most prone
to catching the AZTEC SYNDOME.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 15, 2010 at 10:54 pm Link to this comment

Hey all you Injuns out there

The next time you hear someone talk about how the
AZTECS were into mass human sacrifice…..ask them
how the HELL they know this…................!!! ! ! ! !

  Then tell them that you heard all about the

  A Z T E C   S Y N D O M E

on   T R U T H   D I G

Report this

By ofersince72, August 15, 2010 at 9:28 pm Link to this comment

Another case in point of the seventies being used
as the decade to consolidate information and control
political thought.

  I am sure all you Ivy Leaugers should remember,

WGTB,  Georgetown University Broadcasting public radio
station,  and the controversy when they were taken
off the air in the early seventies to change their format.
This was quite common in the early seventies for many
public radio stations , especially ones affiliated with
universities…..........................................

Report this

By ofersince72, August 15, 2010 at 8:09 pm Link to this comment

From all my other posts of Sunday 16th

you would know that I believe that

The idea of the states, paying BP through federal funding
to hire prisoners to clean up the beaches, then BP
pockets the money and doesn’t have to pay the prisoners,
so BP is actually profiting from the clean-up is worth
public discussion.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 15, 2010 at 7:34 pm Link to this comment

What I don’t see being discussed,

is that BP is using prisoners to clean up the beaches,
and not only that,  they are being paid by the states
to hire these prisoners, and that the prisoners don’t
get any or much of this money, so we are paying for it.

OR that the big bally do do that Obama was supposed to
have pulled off on BP, you know, the $20,000,000,000
trust fund for the clean up was never really negociated
of worked out , and that it is all contingent on
BP being able to still drill and spill in the GULF….

Report this

By ofersince72, August 15, 2010 at 7:18 pm Link to this comment

MarthaA,  if you read all my other posts of today,
you would understand,

yes , I agree,  we should get rid of all Faux News,

Kill,  CNN, MSNBC, FOX, AND CBS…............

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 15, 2010 at 6:36 pm Link to this comment

ofersince72, August 15 at 7:30 pm,

REPUBLICAN Conservatism’s Capitalist Rupert Murdoch’s Faux News Network of Fox emotional REPUBLICAN propagandists and liars in all forms of the media have been successful Conservative REPUBLICAN EXTREMIST liars and emotional REPUBLICAN propagandists, but as this thread states, it is time for the end of the REPUBLICAN Faux News Era of Fox emotional REPUBLICAN Conservative propagandists, and an end to all REPUBLICAN political lies and emotional propaganda to lead the 70% Majority Common Populace against their best interest 24/7 in ALL forms of the media, because REPUBLICAN conservatism’s lies and emotional propaganda is destroying our nation from within, as REPUBLICAN conservatism’s political liars and emotional propagandists are the United States’ major threat; NOT terrorists, or any other country; the constant Hitleresque flow of CONSERVATISM’S emotional political lies and emotional propaganda to make CONSERVATISM appear Liberal and to destroy anything really liberal in the minds of the 70% Majority Common Populace is the reason for, and the reason why the REPUBLICAN Conservative Faux News on the Fox Network must end, as this was Hitler’s tactic that was used to take over the government of Germany, in like manner as Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Reilly, Sarah Palin, Karl Rove, etc., as Hitler recorded in his book, “Mein Kampf”, before he brought it to pass, and must not be allowed to continue unabated in the United States.

Propaganda is binary (two choice) emotional rhetoric.

Politics is leadership of constituents in their best interest and non-constituents against their best interest.

Anytime even as much as a third of the liberal common populace think they are REPUBLICAN CONSERVATIVE Capitalists voting for Conservative REPUBLICAN EXTREMIST interests, they have been led against their best interest,  and this is what the REPUBLICAN Faux News Network of Fox Conservative Propagandist’s purpose is.  After World War II, in 1937 through 1940 and up until the 1980 Conservative Revolution, the conservative type of military style propaganda used against a nation’s own citizens was against the law, but after the Conservative Revolution in the United States it appears that Conservatism reigns against United States citizens, and REPUBLICAN Conservative propaganda’s use against our nation citizens absolutely must end, because for an equilibrium in political power, it takes at least an equal mixture of liberal, progressive, innovation with REPUBLICAN CONSERVATISM to have a healthy nation and the United States has been an unhealthy nation ever since the Conservative Propaganda Revolution against liberals, progressives, unions, libraries, innovation, community, socialists, socialism, the populace and anything that will be of benefit to the 70% MAJORITY Common Populace of the United States.

It truly must be the end of the REPUBLICAN Faux News Network Era of Fox Conservative Propagandists and all like destructive interests.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 15, 2010 at 3:30 pm Link to this comment

And they were so successful at what I described in the
previous posts…

  That now, they even have the “intellect” of this
country blaming slaves and consuming political dialogue.

or about some shrine built in in New York.

or which way should we go in Afghanistan

or , are Tea Bagggers racists

or,  anyone of a number of non-issues

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 15, 2010 at 3:15 pm Link to this comment

And, the Conservatives wouldn’t be able to fool the common populace so easily without the free flowing sophism and propaganda from all the propagandists on MSM, especially those led by Rupert Murdoch’s Faux (fox) News Network and his other various News Corp operations,  like the Wall Street Journal fooling the liberal common populace into thinking and voting as capitalist conservatives of the Republican Party as their means of livelihood is slowly taken from them, never to be replaced by conservatism.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 15, 2010 at 3:02 pm Link to this comment

And I knew at the time of the BLOW JOB IMPEACHMENT

the political process was over in America, and burned

and trashed all the information and history that I had

accumulated.  And here we are…......If you believe

that you can undo forty years of a well thought out

plan, perfectly executed and well financed, with all the

power they need at their hands ,,,by going to the voting

booth and casting a vote….....you are still stupid and

ain’t learned a fucking thing yet..
a new constitutional convention is the only prayer
we have…but due to the ecological mess that too will
be of no circumstance to our future.,,besides their isn’t
enough BALLS in the American Public to demand this.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 15, 2010 at 2:53 pm Link to this comment

And what I have described in the last several posts

I watched and observed with rage in my blood and tears

in my eyes.  How so many could be so easily duped for

so long, by money…...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Report this

By ofersince72, August 15, 2010 at 2:47 pm Link to this comment

Lets not leave the “new age of the internet” out.

There is some info available that used not be readily
available to the public,  right at the fingertips.
(however, much is still contained)

THE OVERLORDS DON’T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THAT ANYMORE!!!!!
because while all of you were drinking the koolaid
they fed you during the seventies, eighties, and ninties,
they were also consolidating power.
YOU WOKE UP TOO TOOO TOOOO TOOOOO TOOOOOOO TOOOOOOOOO
  L A T E   L A T E   L A T E   L A T E   L A T E
Thanks.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 15, 2010 at 2:39 pm Link to this comment

This was a well thought out plan by the overlords.

They saw very quickly in the sixties what mess an
educated and well informed public for them and their
power. They hadn’t quite yet learned to deal with the
electronic information.

  Their goal , get rid of labor’s gains,  bust the unions,
and control information, thought and issues. Or as has
been quoted many times “Dumb Down the Public”.

  To do this they had to keep money flowing, which they
did quite well in the seventies.  I remember the mills
and factories and steel plants in Balt. all paying as
much as $30 an hour,  all health care paid for completely.
Flood the market with money while secretly , behind the
back start controlling information.  They also used drugs
quite efficiently at this time also.  Flooded the streets
with all sorts of drugs in the seventies, PCP, LSD, Cocaine, ect.  Everyone was happy, happy.
THE DECADE OF DECADENCE..1969-1979
that so many tee shirts displayed in Balt about this time
By the 1980s, they were ready to install their
“BIG BROTHER” and they did, Ron Reagon.  They had now
already took control of all the media systems. So it
was time to start working on labor….Reagon finished
what Carter had started with the Controllers. Then all
during his admin.  an assult on labor…union membership
dropped drastically and “they” , using their controlled
media, were able to make the American Public believe
that unions were a bad thing for economic growth. More
of the same BUSH I. (all the while , having their overseas
resourse wars that they also got the public to proudly
support, i.e. Panama, Desert Storm, Grenada, Nicauraga.)
  Next up, NeoCon artist Clinton was installed.
I don’t care to read Scheer’s new book,  However most
is well known.  He signed the BUSH I negociated NAFTA
into law,  streamlined laws for the benefit of the
overlords, (commonly known as Wall Street or the
International Investors).
ALL THIS MAKING WAY FOR .....COMPLETE CONTROL OF AMERICA
BY THE OVERLORDS….WHICH IS WHERE WE ARE TODAY.
THANKYOU DEAD MAN   G. ORWELL….THEY SHOULD HAVE TAKEN
YOU SERIOUSLY!!!! INSTEAD OF THINKING THEY WERE JUST
READING AND ENJOYING A FICTION BOOK.
AND H. ZINN…..THEY READ YOUR BOOK, BUT DIDN’T GET IT !

Report this

By ofersince72, August 15, 2010 at 1:52 pm Link to this comment

As also witnessed by the new book that the editor
of this site is promoting,  pointing fingers at the
Clinton Administration for the financial collapse…

Why now, and not then???

Many that were “digging beneath the headlines” were
screaming and shouting twenty years ago about this.

MSNBC nor CNN were
information has been contained for a long time! ! ! ! ! !

Report this

By ofersince72, August 15, 2010 at 1:47 pm Link to this comment

The End of Fox News Era?

What a stupid question.

The End of the News Era ended many years ago.

as witnessed , by everything that has transpired for
the last forty years.
They were even good enough to have the citizenry argue
over which news media delivers the news.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 15, 2010 at 1:34 pm Link to this comment

Fox does a good job for the overlords, their prime
target is the NASCAR type populace.

  MSNBC also does a good job for the overlords,  they
target the TRUTH DIG type populace.

  CNN also does a good job for the overlords, they
target all the idiots together.

The first real sign of the media consolidating
information was back in the late 1960s when
The Smothers Brothers Show was lifted.  The overlords
then in the 1970s began tuning their new controlled
information systems.  By the 1980s, all free information
and thought was well controlled.  All the MSMs by then
were creating the issues to be discussed and what
information would be made public by mainstream.
FOX MEDIA IS NO WORSE THAN MSNBC,,just caters to a
different crowd.
Otherwise none of you idiots would not have been dumb enough
to keep voting for DEMS OR PUBS the last forty years,
Obama’s real agenda would have been known about,
The fraud at the Iowa Caucus would have been exposed,
his health care plan would have been laid out before
the elections….and so on and so forth….
All information is controlled nowadays, you know it , just
don’t want to admit that you were all duped.
So now,  go listen to Rachael and Keith and go tell
everyone just how well informed you are, then
of course, vote for Some More Democrats,  because you
are enlightened and those of FOX are not.

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, August 15, 2010 at 8:01 am Link to this comment

It may be said, the demise of Fox is just only one more form of hope of any sane thinking person. High expectations of increased intelligence within the USA’s population seems purely speculative, for that would be the only way Fox would go away like the huge detritus spewing fly it is!

Report this
ThomasG's avatar

By ThomasG, August 14, 2010 at 6:28 pm Link to this comment

Faux Fox Political News is intentionally representative of News at the level of dogs and monkeys conveyed as binary emotional rhetoric, propaganda, that is intended to condition viewers and frame comprehension of viewers to accept propagandistic assertions by Faux Fox News as dogs and monkeys, and should be deeply offensive and disturbing to viewers, rather than to be blindly accepted for being something more than Faux News.

Dialogue with “movement inspired Right-Wingers” is nothing more than dialogue with dogs and monkeys.  This false dialogue has been going on since the time of Nixon through Ford, Reagan, Bush I, Bush II and continues into the present with emotional Conservative Right-Wing EXTREMIST Movement rhetoric and dialogue.

With regard to the comprehension, or feigned comprehension, of willful dogs and monkeys, and concurrent dialogue and conversation on serious matters with those same willful dogs and monkeys, whether it is at the water hole or elsewhere, all such dialogue is nonproductive, and the pretense that any response other than condescension is appropriate is a delusory fiction; a pat on the head or a tap on the nose in reward or disapproval is all that is appropriate for comprehension at the level of dogs and monkeys, or feigned comprehension at the level of dogs and monkeys disingenuously used as a rhetorical device that is most generally effected in combination with a binary perspective and emotions to misdirect the course of existing dialogue for political purpose; i.e., leadership of constituents in their best interest and non-constituents against their best interests, “politics”.

Faux Fox Political News.

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, August 14, 2010 at 8:16 am Link to this comment

My other brother Clyde is like a rabid distiller of his own Gospels of what he believes to be the true great books on Harry Potter. 

It seems,.... in Clyde’s mind,.... Harry Potter was or still is a real person, because he was told so by a real thinking person of ill repute, so when Clyde went to see the revelations of Harry Potter, he was moved by a light and asked to leave the theater, which had something to do with the voice behind the light and Clyde’s proclivity of singing Irish ditties while drinking beer!

In my case, I believed in Santa Clause until three years ago when all of a sudden I lost my job as a Tattoo critic for a prison newspaper,  then I lost my house and car, this forced me to live under a bridge, of course everyone remembers the 2009 glut on shopping carts. Some people equate my situation to socialism, because we are a group of more than two and some of us asked the government to provide more bridges for the homeless.  We even had the gall to request of the government for more shopping carts! These where considered most decadent requests and a waste of tax payers money, because the necessary need of supporting more important things like different wars, and of course paying for medical insurance for all of handicapped people in Congress. 

You know! It would be nice in my case if Fox instead of supporting Teabaggers and Palin, Fox instead supported shopping cart rallies for the homeless, though this could be problematical because of the socialism stigma attached to it. ...... I will never understand why Fox supports Palin when she is sort like a a socialism stigma for the word imbecile!

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 14, 2010 at 6:39 am Link to this comment

MarthaA:

It’s amazing: Sarah Palin actually makes Bush the Lesser seem
1) Intelligent
2) Well-educated
3) Well-informed
4) Capable of management
5) Thoughtful
6) Sensitive
7) Responsible
8) Honorable
9) Funny
10) Competent (I REALLY stretching here, though!)

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, August 14, 2010 at 6:06 am Link to this comment

Dead Right, would mean something if it did not dead brain!

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 13, 2010 at 10:23 pm Link to this comment

Hog wash!  Palin isn’t worth killing.  The only way she could ever get into office would be another Conservative Republican Supreme Court fraud like was pulled on Al Gore, and it would be unwise for the Republicans to try that again, as Palin’s too willful to hold up her end of the bargain properly as told.  Reagan acting experience made it fairly easy for him to put on his act, but Palin is too old to learn new acting tricks and would be much worse that Bush the Lesser, who thought the job was “Haaard Work!”and barely survived what he was made to do, but Palin, who takes a minimum of one hour to take a bath couldn’t pull it off and would think the job even harder obeying her masters, she had no commitment whatsoever to the State of Alaska, so it is highly unlikely the Republicans will opt for Palin on their ticket, but since Rove has joined her on the Faux (fox) News Network, maybe he has intentions of trying to train her like he did Bush II.  Time will tell.  Still, there is no one wanting to kill Palin except maybe a dunce, and dunces should not be headlined.

The American Populace is going to have to have enough sense not to let the Republicans back into office and the Democrat that runs against the Republican, which will undoubtedly be President Obama, had better have three vote counts of verification, because Al Gore won.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 12, 2010 at 6:19 pm Link to this comment

Death Threats From Left Continue In The Open
Liberal Supporters Cheer

Legislator resigns after ‘dead Palin’ comment
Posted: August 12th, 2010 02:15 PM ET

From CNN Political Producer Peter Hamby

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 12, 2010 at 5:08 pm Link to this comment

“over the line”?  What, are you kidding?

This isn’t a game.  It’s about peoples’ lives and their ability to live them, and the threat to them by others.  They aren’t pawns, they are people.

Lying to justify a war that gets them killed is about as evil a thing as someone can do.  We have no right to kill other people unless our survival is on the line FROM them.

It’s this little thing called “self-defense”.  Not “protective reaction”, not even “GWOT”.

On 9/11 we were attacked by people in the government of, and supported by the government of Afghanistan. It was logical to assume further attacks would occur therefore an invasion to destroy that threat and killing the people who brought it about was justified.

But there was no such threat from Iraq.  Not in March of 2003.

But it’s easy for you to justify when it’s the “other”.

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 12, 2010 at 4:19 pm Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, August 12 at 7:21 pm,

Yeah, yeah; what a story.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 12, 2010 at 3:21 pm Link to this comment

“I guess nobody YOU knew died in Iraq or Afghanistan.  It’s EASY to be reckless with the lives of people you don’t know, and, who you think you are better than.”

-

You’ve leaped over the line of what it means to be an reasonable human being.  I’ll partially blame myself for having lead you to write such a thing.  I apologies.


Take the last word.

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 12, 2010 at 9:36 am Link to this comment

Here is a blast from the past about the REPUBLICAN Iran-Contra Scandal Deal against President Carter to keep President Carter from being reelected, as is now known: 

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/911.html

CIA George H. W. Bush’s traitorous moves against the United States government under President Jimmy Carter were behind the Iran-Contra Deal to NOT release the 52 prisoners until the day their REPUBLICAN EXTREMIST puppet/actor Ronald Reagan was sworn in as president.

REPUBLICANS’ propagandized heavily against President Carter and their traitorous actions were why the prisoners were not brought home, and the REPUBLICAN administration would secure and protect their traitorous acts for getting REPUBLICAN EXTREMISTS into power, which was far worse than the Watergate REPUBLICAN Scandal; and 9/11/01 was another one of the REPUBLICANS’ traitorous schemes, protected by REPUBLICANS.

REPUBLICAN schemes for power have gotten more brutal over the years and I expect REPUBLICANS will do physical harm, or try to do physical harm, to President Obama if in some way their mean, vile, and vulgar psychological propagandizing the public against President Obama doesn’t fool the people, then they will choose to do physical harm to the President in order to make it possible for the REPUBLICANS to regain the power of the presidency, based on the past, one can fairly closely predict the future.

.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 12, 2010 at 7:21 am Link to this comment

Presidential Press Secretary, Robert Gibbs, thinks you should be drug tested.  He may have a point…..LOL
************************

Yeah, they’ll OD on all antacids and proton-pump-inhibitors I take for all the indigestion you give me with your reckless and feckless defense of the right-wing-fascists.

I guess nobody YOU knew died in Iraq or Afghanistan.  It’s EASY to be reckless with the lives of people you don’t know, and, who you think you are better than.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 12, 2010 at 3:47 am Link to this comment

Windy, - Spawn of Satan President!  Million dead!!  Saint Saddam victimized!!!

-

Bush lied! Bush Lied! Bush Lied!  The Congress was duped!  The United Nations was duped!  Russia, China, Britain, Germany, Italy, Japan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Poland! No evidence!  All duped!  By Neo-Cons!  For a decade!

Presidential Press Secretary, Robert Gibbs, thinks you should be drug tested.  He may have a point…..LOL

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 11, 2010 at 7:58 pm Link to this comment

What a wonderful grasp of the obvious….LOL

Too bad you don’t have it.  WHAT are you missing?  Do you think war is a big joke?  That it doesn’t matter that somewhere between 650,000 and a million Iraqis are now dead who wouldn’t be?  That 5000 American service men and women are dead that wouldn’t be?

How easily you throw other peoples’ lives away as if they are so much garbage.

All for an unnecessary war based on the idiot idea that we’d then control Iraqi oil.

Your blatant coldness in the face of these unnecessary deaths brought about by an idiot incompetent President who acted out of anger and fear of his manhood being questioned is truly sad.

It’s simple.  Bush wanted this war and got it.  Clinton didn’t want it and we didn’t get it.

You can pretend that he had all this support but IT DOESN’T MEAN A DAMN THING!  Bush LIED to Congress to get their votes.  Had he told the truth THEY WOULD NOT HAVE VOTED FOR THE RESOLUTION!

Spin, obfuscate, confuse, change people’s words and flat-out lie.  It won’t help. The obviousness of the wrong the Bush enacted is blatant.

But you are too bigoted and dogmatic to let yourself see it. 

A lost cause.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 11, 2010 at 5:44 pm Link to this comment

“Clinton didn’t lead us into a trillion-dollar war based on the assessments that there were WMDs in Iraq.  Bush did.”

-

What a wonderful grasp of the obvious….LOL

Good thing you cleared that up, Windy.  I think there are seven Llama herders in the higher Andes Mountains who were not aware of that.


Yes. YES. YES!  George W. Bush lead the way to using military troops and heavy equipment in an significant and deadly manner to remove Saddam Hussein from power.  As per the law mandated by over 480 lawmakers in the year 2002.  Four years after 520 U.S. lawmakers passed a constitutional mandate to remove Saddam from power as a dire threat to global and U.S. National Security with the specific goal of fostering a Democracy in his stead.

Do we, at last, have the facts straight? wink

-

I do recall the warnings and words of President Carter.  I recall them well.  Which of President Clinton’s warnings and words will you choose to ignore?  All of them?

“There is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein’s Iraq. His regime threatens the safety of his people, the stability of his region and the security of all the rest of us.”

Poof.  All gone.  Never happened.  Bush lied! Bush Lied! Bush Lied!  The Congress was duped!  The United Nations was duped!  Russia, China, Britain, Germany, Italy, Japan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Poland! No evidence!  All duped!  By Neo-Cons!  For a decade! 

I saw it on youtube!

Good grief!.....LOL

Report this
ThomasG's avatar

By ThomasG, August 11, 2010 at 4:54 pm Link to this comment

ofersince72, August 11 at 5:22 pm,

In the absence of causal understanding, the deluded always act with certainty.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 11, 2010 at 4:41 pm Link to this comment

ofersince72, August 11 at 5:22 pm Link to this comment

This is the craziest debate that I have seen on
TRUTH DIG yet ! ! ! ! !

  both sides wrapped in delusion
*******************************

From an expert on self-delusion, so he ought to know…

Report this

By ofersince72, August 11, 2010 at 1:22 pm Link to this comment

This is the craziest debate that I have seen on
TRUTH DIG yet ! ! ! ! !

  both sides wrapped in delusion

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 11, 2010 at 12:34 pm Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, August 11 at 3:31 pm,

Your judgment of Iraq and Saddam Hussein would be based on Faux (fox) News Network and REPUBLICAN sophistry and propaganda.  Many thousands of Americans have died, but not YOU, and millions of Iraqis have died and you don’t care.  I consider you an unjust judge.

The Project For the New American Century is for only two classes across the nation and around the world—the have’s  and the have not’s.  Would that work out well for you?

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 11, 2010 at 11:44 am Link to this comment

Gave Rethugs just can’t figure it out…..

He STILL hasn’t figured it out….Clinton didn’t lead us into a trillion-dollar war based on the assessments that there were WMDs in Iraq.  Bush did.

That’s so simple a 7 year old could understand it.  One kept us OUT of war with Iraq and left office with a budget surplus.

The other drove us INTO that war and left a massive deficit.

Prior to the launching of the attack on Iran, Jimmy Carter made a MAJOR speech URGING President Bush and Congress to NOT go to war.  I guess you just forgot about that, didn’t you?

Also, what you can’t seem to get through your propaganda-clogged head is that AT THE TIME THE DECISION WAS MADE TO GO TO WAR, there was NO evidence of WMDs in Iraq and Hans Blix kept saying “Give us more time”.

So why didn’t Bush the Lesser give him more time?  It was March of 2003 and Rummy didn’t want the invasion to start in the summer or fall, therefore going into winter and possibly having to be postponed until 2004—the election year.  If it didn’t happen in the spring it would have to wait until the NEXT spring, but, being an election year they couldn’t do that.

So, against all the good judgment and advice (they fired all the Generals who said it was tactically and strategically unsound, like Shinseki) for DOMESTIC POLITICAL reasons they had to go in March 2003.  Didn’t matter that there was no evidence of WMDs-they just gen’ed it up for Congress.

Of course, none of the chicken hawks drumming for the war in the Bush WH had ever actually FOUGHT in a war—it’s easy to be a tough guy from behind a desk, safely in Washington, DC.  Not so easy in the sands of Iraq under fire.

So, for the Tenth Time:

Are you a right-wing fascist or a tool and a dupe of the right-wing fascists?

You keep NOT answering the question. It’s a simple one.  You just keep dodging, avoiding and trying to ignore it.

All I’m doing is what YOU do all the time: Frame a question that the respondent CAN’T make a good answer to, and then harass him/her for not answering the question.

You do it all the time.  Now I’m doing it to you.

Don’t like it, do you?  Feels unfair, doesn’t it?
So..If you can’t take it, DON’T DISH IT OUT!

Besides, you’ve perpetually defended the right-wing fascists from Palin to Boehner to Limbaugh to Gingrich, et al.

Funny thing, while Newt was “impeaching” Clinton for lying about cheating on his wife, Newt was cheating on his 2nd wife with what is now his 3rd wife.  He cheated on his 1st wife with his 2nd wife and told her “It doesn’t matter what I do. It matters what I say”  (or something like that) He made a HUGE speech on family values and then told her he wanted to able to keep screwing his mistress…The man has a stone where most have a heart.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 11, 2010 at 11:31 am Link to this comment

Martha,

By the by; I miss the Project For the New American Century.  They had it right. - In my own opinion Saddam Hussein was the single most dangerous individual on the planet.

In fact I highly recommend you study the archives of the site for yourself.  You should never, I repeat never, accept what others tell you about the group.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 11, 2010 at 11:18 am Link to this comment

Windy, - “Somehow Gave Rethugs can’t figure out that SOMETIME in those 5 years Saddam Hussein got RID of his WMDs—hell, he even got rid of war planes, preferring them to go to Iran than to the USA.”

-

In fact, and in hindsight, Iraq’s banned weapons were being eliminated many years before.  If one reads the weapons inspectors reports that much becomes clear.

What is not clear is why the “Five Years” matters in this discussion.  The United Nations was unaware in 1998, 2000 and 2002 that Saddam had paused his never ending quest for massive weapons.

YES!  There was no “stock” of banned weapons found.  It is so abundantly clear, IN HINDSIGHT, oh Windy One! .....Geesh LOL

So your entire point is in how stockpiles were not found in Iraq?  Do you think you could hang onto the incredibly obvious a little bit L-ON-G-E-R…..LOL…..?

-

Try to keep apace, Windy.  It’s not about what was not found.  It’s about WHO - BELIEVED - WMD - EXISTED - PRIOR - 2003?

Answer?  President Clinton (who stated EXACTLY that on Larry King in Nov. 2002), and the United Nations (which passed no less than 14 resolutions to that exact effect), and France and Germany, and Britain, and Russia, and China and, oh, by the way President Bush….LOL

-

What you won’t learn on Democracy Now:

Here’s another for you, Martha.  Search for “Larry King+President Clinton+Iraq”.  You will see exactly what I’m writing about!

After you do that perhaps you can explain how two U.S. Presidents believed and said all the same things but only one was lying.

Windy sure can’t explain it.  He doesn’t even attempt to navigate that impossible mine-field…..LOL….better to change the subject as QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE! Right, Windy wink

Oh yeah…I pay attention. You Betcha!

Report this
ThomasG's avatar

By ThomasG, August 11, 2010 at 9:51 am Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, August 11 at 11:07 am,


What democracy has the moral high ground to pass judgment on Saddam Hussein and Iraq?


Is it the Greek Democracy of the United States that committed genocide on the Native populations, put the survivors in concentration camps and forced them to be vagrants and beggars in their own homeland?


There is NO moral high ground for the United States to judge Iraq and Saddam Hussein, so what democracy are we talking about that has the moral high ground to set in judgment of Saddam Hussein and Iraq?

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 11, 2010 at 9:29 am Link to this comment

The American populace ousted Conservative Bob Kerrey, who is a neo-con New Class member of the DLC, Professional Left-New Middle Class that colluded with the Conservative REPUBLICANS to cause the wars.  Neverending War is what the Neo-Cons of the Conservative Professional Left’s DLC New Class have chosen.  So whatever this colluding jackal says is only evidence of the Professional Left’s colluding compliance with the Conservative REPUBLICANS that will always choose WAR if they have a chance.
 
The economic problems in the United States are a direct consequence of the Conservative Professional Left Middle Class deserting representation of the 70% American Populace to represent their own New Class, the Professional Left-Middle Class at the expense of the American Populace.

Kerrey was definitely NOT duped, he is a Neo-Con that was involved up to his neck in the collusive Wars of Aggression between the Conservative/Moderate Left and the Conservative REPUBLICAN PARTY.

As was Bob Kerrey, all Conservatives and Moderates need to be removed from the Democratic Party because the entire Republican Party is Conservatives—NO Liberals are allowed.  Republicans get kicked out of the REPUBLICAN PARTY if they are not Conservative enough; therefore there can be no equilibrium between the liberals of the Democratic Party and the REPUBLICAN PARTY, there are far too many Conservatives on the Left for balance. 

Conservatism in and of itself will destroy, if it is not diluted with Liberalism to a great extent, just like EXTREME hoarding, but the REPUBLICAN PARTY has chosen autocratic, authoritarian, conservatism as their sole objective and are colluded with by conservatism from the Professional Left conveniently disguised as liberals.

George W. Bush along with 24/7 Conservative Right-Wing media, especially the Faux (fox) News Network and CNN along with Conservatives in Congress and the press HYPED up Saddam Hussein as a threat to the United States, when Iraq was no threat at all, and the Neo-Cons on the Left knew it and the Right knew it, but never the less colluded on the “Project For the New American Century” Conservative Plan and made neverending war happen; WAR was/is the Conservative OBJECTIVE —endless war —  the “Project For the New American Century” New World Order http://www.newamericancentury.org/ continues to be the Neo-Con Left/Republican objective.

War will not end until the American Populace totally remove all of the Neo-Cons, Moderate and Conservative, on the Left, so that there is an equilibrium in Congress, because with the Congress weighted to the Right, war will never end, there is too much money to be made by the Conservative Military Industrial Complex Capitalist CEO’s of the REPUBLICAN Right and the Conservative Professional Left, that poses as liberals.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 11, 2010 at 8:14 am Link to this comment

Somehow Gave Rethugs Your Mind can’t do simple arithmetic.

2003 minus 1998 = 5 YEARS

Somehow Gave Rethugs can’t figure out that SOMETIME in those 5 years Saddam Hussein got RID of his WMDs—hell, he even got rid of war planes, preferring them to go to Iran than to the USA.

Somehow, Gave Rethugs thinks he can STILL con us into believing that the Congress wasn’t fed false intelligence, deliberately cooked by the Lesser Bush regime to make it LOOK like there were WMDs.

Got that, GRYM?  Bush LIED to Congress.  He bullshitted and bullied and flat-out lied to them, hiding KEY contradictory evidence.

Maybe among your right-wing-fascist friends they still hang onto the pipe-dream that Bush and the Democrats in Congress had the same data.

Maybe among your right-wing-fascist friends they still hang onto the idea that what was true of Iraq in 1998 was still true 5 years later.

And maybe your right-wing-fascist friends KNOW it’s all bullshit to admit it is to ENSURE that it will be a LONG TIME before they get back in power.

So, for the 9th time here’s the question you simply are too dishonorable to answer:

Are you a right-wing fascist or a tool and a dupe of the right-wing fascists?

There’s no “opportunity” you can give me.

But I’m giving YOU the opportunity to step up and acknowledge what you are and what you stand for.

But you won’t face it.  You won’t answer it.  You keep dodging the TRUTH because you know…well, we both know why.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 11, 2010 at 7:07 am Link to this comment

Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998


According to Senator Bob Kerrey:

  “This bill, when passed and signed into law, is a clear commitment to a U.S. policy replacing the Saddam Hussein regime and replacing it with a transition to democracy. This bill is a statement that America refuses to coexist with a regime which has used chemical weapons on its own citizens and on neighboring countries, which has invaded its neighbors twice without provocation, which has still not accounted for its atrocities committed in Kuwait, which has fired ballistic missiles into the cities of three of its neighbors, which is attempting to develop nuclear and biological weapons, and which has brutalized and terrorized its own citizens for thirty years. I don’t see how any democratic country could accept the existence of such a regime, but this bill says America will not.”

-

Does it appear to you that Sen, Bob Kerry was duped into his 1998 vote to remove Hussein?  Does Sen. Kerry appear to believe Iraq was seeking banned weapons?  Was he at all ambiguous on the goal of the U.S. government to remove Saddam Hussein from his seat due to the danger Hussein posed?

Four years after the House and Senate overwhelmingly passed the Iraqi Liberation Act mandating the removal of Hussein from power the House and Senate overwhelmingly passed a “Congressional Resolution Authorizing Force Against Iraq”.

In part the authorization to use force read as follows: “The bill authorizes the President to use the U.S. armed forces to: (1) defend U.S. national security against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and (2) enforce all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.”

-

I understand all of this is completely new to Martha.  But you, Windy, you should have been well aware of these realities years ago.  It’s simply not feasible, not in the realm of possible, to believe several hundred democrats were “duped”, as you have stated several times, into this vote.

Drop the hate and fear.  Learn the real-life history of events.  Over time, as you come to understand those things you hold such great fear of, the hate will dissipate.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 11, 2010 at 6:15 am Link to this comment

Windy,

I give you every opportunity to step-up.  Every opportunity imaginable.  Have some self-respect.

Your entire premise is based on “the lies”.  It is YOU who care a great deal about the lies you believe you were told.  You mention it consistently when this subject comes up. 

You can’t play me, Windy.  I pay attention.

-

Yes.  Yes!  YES!  President Bush and the U.S. Congress opted for a robust military solution to the growing Saddam Hussein problem.  That is not in dispute.

President Clinton and the 107th Congress mandated into law the removal of Hussein from Iraq due to, amongst the many reason outlined in the law, what was thought to be, his continued and persistent desire for weapons banned to him by the U.N..  WMD.

What is in dispute is your odd notion that the democrats in congress were simpleton idiots who allowed themselves to be “mislead”.  HOGWASH.  Not after seven years of a democratic president and several hundred democratic congressman all saying the same things about Saddam Hussein and Iraq.

It is not possible for you to believe in this unhinged theory any longer.  You were lied to alright!  And you allowed yourself to be a tool for political gain. 

Embarrassed?  You should be.

-

“There is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein’s Iraq. His regime threatens the safety of his people, the stability of his region and the security of all the rest of us.”

EXTREMIST U.S.  President William Jefferson Clinton. - Feb. 1998

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 11, 2010 at 4:37 am Link to this comment

Martha,

Drop Democracy Now as a source of facts.  DN is a terrific source for opinions and attitudes.  Particularly if one enjoys the liberal view.  I visit often. - Also drop the hate.  It blinds you horribly.

Search: “UNITED NATIONS WEAPONS INSPECTORS REPORT TO SECURITY COUNCIL”

READ the actual reports.  Not what others claim is contained in these dozens of reports written by dozens of inspectors of various backgrounds and areas of expertise.  You’ll find a TREMENDOUS amount of information in these reports.  Things you have, so far, been completely unaware of.

You have indeed been lied to.

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 10, 2010 at 10:32 pm Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, August 11 at 12:23 am

You are a Conservative REPUBLICAN EXTREMIST paid toady.

As usual I trusted DemocracyNow.org, http://www.democracynow.org to provide objective facts and DemocracyNow.org did provide objective facts to keep us informed well and brought to light all the lies, lies, and more lies of Bush the Lesser’s administration purported by the subjective Faux (fox) News Network propaganda. 

President Obama publishes all his facts, but Bush the Lesser did not, do you have any idea why? —Since you say you can get copies of all the Weapons of Mass Destruction Reports freely.  Then, why would the Bush administration choose not to publish the WMD Reports objective facts?  The Bush administration did not, therefore YOUR sophist story doesn’t hold water, as usual.  I suppose you are wanting the populace to think that Bush’s Weapons of Mass Destruction were a classified secret, but if so, YOU couldn’t get them.  Face it, Bush the Lesser was strictly a Weapon of Mass Deception against the American Populace, and YOU are a paid populace mercenary turkey following the propaganda on Rupert Murdoch’s Faux (fox) News Network of subjective conservatism propaganda and sophism.

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 10, 2010 at 10:29 pm Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, August 11 at 12:23 am

You are a Conservative REPUBLICAN EXTREMIST paid toady.

As usual I trusted DemocracyNow.org, http://www.democracynow.org to provide objective facts and DemocracyNow.org did provide objective facts to keep us informed well and brought to light all the lies, lies, and more lies of Bush the Lesser’s administration purported by the subjective Faux (fox) News Network propaganda as truth, but they don’t know what that is. 

President Obama publishes his facts, but Bush the Lesser did not, do you have any idea why? —Since you say you can get copies of all the Weapons of Mass Destruction Reports freely.  Then, why would the Bush administration choose not to publish the WMD Reports of objective facts?  The Bush administration did not, therefore YOUR sophist story doesn’t hold water, as usual.  I suppose you are wanting the populace to think that Bush’s Weapons of Mass Destruction were a classified secret, but if so, YOU couldn’t get them.  Face it, Bush the Lesser was strictly a Weapon of Mass Deception against the American Populace, and YOU are a paid populace mercenary turkey following the propaganda on Rupert Murdoch’s Faux (fox) News Network of subjective conservatism propaganda and sophism.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 10, 2010 at 8:32 pm Link to this comment

Where is your self-respect, Windy?

You have claimed several times that Bush and Co. lied the United States into a war over Iraqi WMD.  Now you claim it doesn’t matter.  As if the reason the congress voted to use the military doesn’t matter.
***********************************

Reading comprehension problems catching up with you Gave Rethugs Your Mind?  Or do you just like re-writing my posts to CHANGE what you know said so it reverses the meaning?

I NEVER stated that it didn’t matter that Bush lied about the WMDS—that’s a lie by YOU and you know it.

...ANOTHER right-wing fascist technique you use.

So…for the 8th time:

Are you a right-wing fascist or a tool and dupe of the right-wing fascists?

When are you going to step up and give an honest answer?

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 10, 2010 at 8:23 pm Link to this comment

ITW,- “I don’t give a shit if other Presidents thought Saddam had WMDs—when are you going to get it through your THICK HEAD that it doesn’t matter.”

-

Where is your self-respect, Windy? 

You have claimed several times that Bush and Co. lied the United States into a war over Iraqi WMD.  Now you claim it doesn’t matter.  As if the reason the congress voted to use the military doesn’t matter.

Have some Self-respect. Good Grief.

-

Yes, Martha. You can find the entire body of work of U.N. Weapons Inspectors through the United Nations. 

Youtube?  Seriously?  You reach your conclusions by not reading weapons inspectors reports but lean on youtube?

EXTREME.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 10, 2010 at 7:51 pm Link to this comment

GRYM:

Time for YOU to step up and answer the questions, instead of dodging them and hurling insults.

I don’t give a shit what MarthaA said—she’s perfectly capable of answering for herself. (No offense, MarthaA—I know you know what I’m doing here)

I don’t give a shit if other Presidents thought Saddam had WMDs—when are you going to get it through your THICK HEAD that it doesn’t matter.

What matters is that when Bush took us into that war that NO OTHER PRESIDENT was stupid enough to, he based it on the deliberate LIE that there were WMDs in Iraq, when there weren’t.  NOBODY HERE DENIES THAT IRAQ ONCE HAD WMDs! That’s another Rush Limbaugh “straw man”.  But to go to WAR, there had to be clear, solid evidence that there were WMDs in March of 2003, when we invaded.  THAT is all that matters, not whether Clinton, or LBJ, or Ike thought there were WMDs in Iraq.

That is the truth you keep trying to hide.

And, why do you keep denying that Bush KNEW there weren’t any WMDs in Iraq, but wanted that war since December of 2000, when he wasn’t even President.

And, for the 7th time….

Are you are right-wing fascist or a dupe and a tool of the right-wing fascists?

You just won’t step up and answer, will you?  You relentlessly defend them and their policies, and try to cover their out-and-out lies, their destruction of anyone who called them liars, but won’t admit that you are either one of them or their tool.

Step up, Gave Your Mind, step up.  You demand it of others but don’t have the guts to do it yourself.

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 10, 2010 at 7:38 pm Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, August 10 at 7:05 pm,

Weapons inspectors said no WMD.  Bush thought it was funny.  Faux (fox) News pushed for war without evidence and the rest of the media followed, as Saddam Hussein was thought by Bush, the CIA and the Military to still be in possession of the WMD that the United States had given him, but he wasn’t.

Even though the Conservative REPUBLICAN Bush administration initiated Saddam Hussein’s death, killed multitudes of people, destroyed and occupied his country, Saddam Hussein still outsmarted Bush the Lesser by getting rid of the U.S.‘s WMD gift, as he knew he could not trust them and got rid of their Trojan Horse.

There is no member of the populace going to receive a copy of a Weapons Inspection and surely you know it, if anything had been found it would have been broadcast by Faux (fox) News Network and all the rest of the Right-Wing media 24/7. 

Even though we don’t be privy to the Chief Inspector’s Reports, we do have plenty of Chief Inspectors’ verbal and written evidence stating beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was NO WMD in Iraq, and even President Bush, in like manner of Marie Antoinette, thought it was funny that the Weapons Inspectors were looking for WMD, and joked about the Weapons Inspectors continuing to look for WMD, which I thought was outrageous, because Bush was the President and he was causing many young men and women to give their lives for nothing.
 
Here are the sites on the net about the Weapons Inspectors that you requested:

Bush defends Iraq war in face of WMD findings: 
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/01/27/sprj.nirq.bush/index.html

U.S., Britain downplay Kay remarks:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/26/sprj.nirq.kay/index.html

Blix casts doubt on WMDs:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/may/23/iraq1

Scott Ritter, Weapons Inspector, Reveals the Lies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYPRQWrS3BQ

Scott Ritter Chief Weapons Inspector in Iraq, (ret.) U.S. Marine Corp Speaks Out:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3264346530562354001#

Did you fight in Bush the Lesser’s “No WMD” War?   If not, why not?  The military can still use you in Afghanistan, you should be about getting on over there to give freedom to the Taliban.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 10, 2010 at 6:51 pm Link to this comment

Windy,

I give you every opportunity to step-up.  Try answering some direct questions.  Just once give it a try.

Yes or no?  Was it correct of Martha to suggest that George W. Bush was the only U.S. President to claim Iraq had banned weapons and programs?

What did Hans Blix write in his book and repeat to reporters and reviewers concerning his own beliefs regarding banned weapons in Iraq prior to 2003?

What did U.N. Weapons Inspectors report when they exited Iraq in 1998 during the Clinton administration?

What, exactly, did Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Tom Daschle and Harry Reid say about Iraq and WMD in 1996, 1998, 2000, 2002?

-

I will not deviate from the root of your stated views on this matter.  You either have an understanding of the situation in 2002-03 or you do not.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 10, 2010 at 5:54 pm Link to this comment

I repeat:

Why do you wingers all refuse to accept that Saddam Hussein was SMART enough to get rid of his WMDs between 1998 and 2003, which was why Blix found NO EVIDENCE of them?  You think Saddam couldn’t clear them out over FIVE YEARS?

So, now you’ve ignored this question twice, and the other question 6 times.

Obfuscate, obfuscate, obfuscate.  Only George W. Bush actually INVADED Iraq that got nearly 5,000 Americans killed and something like 30,000 wounded. Bill Clinton didn’t do that.

THAT is the 900 lb gorilla in the room you keep pretending isn’t there!

Nobody would give a shit about Bush lying about WMDs if he hadn’t used it as the excuse to get us into that insane and idiotic war…and how many hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died who might be alive today if he hadn’t?  Yes, Saddam would still rule, but where there’s life, there’s hope.  The dead have no hope.

Here’s #7:

Are you are right-wing fascist or a tool and a dupe of the right-wing fascists?  Why won’t you answer the question?

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 10, 2010 at 3:05 pm Link to this comment

Martha, I’m going to just come out with it. 

Youtube? Are you kidding me?  You can do no better than youtube? How about actually taking the time to read and study a Weapons Inspectors report? Seriously. Would you not feel “better informed”?

-

ITW,

Focus wink

I am not aware of an sane soul claiming WMD stockpiles was found in Iraq.  Obviously President Clinton and the United Nations (along with the majority of Arab and Far East nations) miscalculated Saddam Hussein. - Attempts at changing the subject will not work with me.  Ever…LOL

Yes or no?  Was it correct of Martha to suggest that George W. Bush was the only U.S. President to claim Iraq had banned weapons and programs?

Anyone? 

What did Hans Blix write in his book and repeat to reporters and book reviewers concerning his own beliefs regarding banned weapons in Iraq prior to 2003?

Anyone?  Anyone?

What did U.N. Weapons Inspectors report when they exited Iraq in 1998 during the Clinton administration?

Anyone?

What, exactly, did Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Tom Daschle and Harry Reid say about Iraq and WMD in 1996, 1998, 2000, 2002?

The two of you either have this incredibly germane information or you do not.  Think of this as a wonderful opportunity to display your exceptional contextual abilities.  Perhaps, just perhaps, you could prove me incorrect.

-

Focus, ITW.  The issue is not Bush and his “military solution”.  The issue is on this thread is; exactly who did the lying?  President Clinton and the United Nations after almost a decade of accusing Iraq of possessing banned weapons and programs?  If that be the case then COME OUT AND SAY IT for goodness sake.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 10, 2010 at 1:15 pm Link to this comment

Yes or no?  Was it correct of you to suggest that George Bush was the only U.S. President to claim Iraq had banned weapons and programs?

What did U.N. Weapons Inspectors report when they exited Iraq in 1998 during the Clinton administration?
********************************************

What did Hans Blix find before the invasion? No WMDs!
What did Rumsfeld’s 150,000-200,000 “inspectors” find after the invasion? No WMDs!

Why do you wingers all refuse to accept that Saddam Hussein was SMART enough to get rid of his WMDs between 1998 and 2003, which was why Blix found NO EVIDENCE of them?  You think Saddam couldn’t clear them out over FIVE YEARS?

So, now you’ve ignored this question once, and the other question 5 times.

Here’s #6:

Are you are right-wing fascist or a tool and a dupe of the right-wing fascists?  Why won’t you answer the question?

(MarthaA: I’ll bet YOU have figured out what I’m doing!)

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 10, 2010 at 12:42 pm Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, August 10 at 4:19 pm,

Still being a cuckolded Conservative EXTREMIST Republican ostrich, I see, trying to knock YouTube liberal alternative media so you can hide with your head in the sand and pretend Conservative Republican EXTREMISTS are democratic——which is actually an oxymoron, because Conservatives are autocratic.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 10, 2010 at 12:19 pm Link to this comment

Marha,

Yes.  Let’s look at the actual evidence and drop the foolish youtube crap.

-

Yes or no?  Was it correct of you to suggest that George Bush was the only U.S. President to claim Iraq had banned weapons and programs?

What did U.N. Weapons Inspectors report when they exited Iraq in 1998 during the Clinton administration?

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 10, 2010 at 11:32 am Link to this comment

I’ve now asked the same question of GRYM 4 times and he’s avoided answering it all 4 times.  Then he claims he’s answered it when he clearly hasn’t.

How dishonorable is that?

So, here’s number 5 for GRYM:

Are you are right-wing fascist or simply a tool and a dupe of the right-wing fascists? 

Since you dogmatically defend every word they say (not simply their right to say it) you can only be one or the other.

So which is it?  Fascist or tool of fascists?

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 10, 2010 at 10:58 am Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, August 10 at 1:52 pm,

Conservatives, both Bush the Elder and “President William Jefferson Clinton. - Feb. 1998” had enough common sense NOT to attack and occupy the sovereign nation of Iraq; because, even though Sadaam Hussein hated Israel, Sadaam Hussein also hated the Iranians and others in the area and was a buffer in the Middle East against all out war, but YOUR president Bush the Lesser, said, “Bring it on” like Marie Antoinette in France when she said to the starving populace wanting bread, “Let Them Eat Cake,” and of course she lost her head, a situation that should happen to all the Neo-Cons involved in the lies of deception and fear of terrorism that took our nation into massive war for private profit that destroyed the nations’ economy.

If you don’t look at the evidence, like an ostrich, maybe someone else will and see that you are propagandizing like the toady REPUBLICAN extremist cuckold you are.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 10, 2010 at 10:46 am Link to this comment

GRYM:

You puff and blow and bluster and obfuscate but you cannot and will not answer a simple question:

Are you are right-wing fascist or a tool and dupe of the right-wing fascists you so vigorously defend?

When you say you answered my question you are flat-out, bare-faced arrogantly lying.  It’s a simple question with a simple answer.

Are you EVER going to answer it?

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 10, 2010 at 9:52 am Link to this comment

Martha, - “only ONE president claimed that Iraq had WMD, George W. Bush”

-

You and Windy amaze me with your lack of follow-through.  Also, I am not, in any way, shape, or form interested in youtube clips.  You will waste your time posting such items.  I’ll not study them.

Yes or no. 

Was it correct of you to suggest that George Bush was the only U.S. President to claim Iraq had banned weapons and programs?

Yes or no?

-


“We have to defend our future from these predators of the 21st century. They feed on the free flow of information and technology. They actually take advantage of the freer movement of people, information and ideas.”

“And they will be all the more lethal if we allow them to build arsenals of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. We simply cannot allow that to happen.”

“There is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein’s Iraq. His regime threatens the safety of his people, the stability of his region and the security of all the rest of us.”

EXTREMIST U.S.  President William Jefferson Clinton. - Feb. 1998

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 10, 2010 at 9:10 am Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, August 10 at 12:07 am,

As for the Bush administration’s WMD lies of mass deception to attack Iraq here is evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYI7JXGqd0o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rObziJhJhgQ

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/WMDlies.html

As for the White House Press seat that was given to the Associated Press; if the Associated Press is Right-Wing enough that they gave it to subjective opinion Faux (fox) News, then Faux (fox) News has the seat for now, I haven’t kept up on that seat, but if, as you say, Faux (fox) News has the seat, NOTHING of benefit will be reported objectively to the populace.

I am a (NPR) National Public Radio and (PBS) Public Broadcasting System News listener and NEVER ever watch Faux (fox) News’ subjective opinions anyway, but people like you, who really don’t want objective news, choose happily to watch deceptive Faux (fox) News. I can always check on Media Matters For America at http://mediamatters.org/topic/onlyonfox/ and find out the mean, vile and vulgar subjective rhetoric, propaganda and sophistry espoused on the Faux (fox) News Network.

The Obama administration definitely leans over backwards to not appear as if they are partial, but in this case, because of the history of Faux (fox) News’ racist, demeaning, undermining, subjective rage, propaganda and sophistry that corrodes and whittles away at the populace against race, liberal funding for teachers, unions, progressives, community, social justice, socialists, and socialism for the populace,[while the Right enjoy socialism for the wealthy corporations, business and industry], possibly the Obama administration will get around to kicking out the Faux (fox) propaganda sitter and make one less seat or appoint the seat to DemocracyNOW’s Amy Goodman at http://www.democracynow.org.

When the Conservative Bush administration was in power, unions were undermined to the extent that they could do nothing of benefit, but now that there is a President on the Liberal side of the spectrum, unions are opening up and doing what they can to be of benefit to the populace, and community has been organizing all over the nation to be beneficial to the populace, but it has been a total of over 32 years of Conservative REPUBLICAN RULE, with Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II making detrimental legislation that the Obama administration will not have time to change during his administration, but it is apparent change has begun and that greater change is coming.

During the Conservative Right-Wing Bush administration years of conservatism, community organization was undermined to the extent that community gardens within cities were destroyed, because the people in the area who worked and made the gardens were getting too much benefit from their labor, and that could not be allowed, as it may spread and others will begin gardening; but, in comparison, as soon as the Left-Wing got into office, community gardening was brought back on the scene, and the First Lady Michelle Obama made a garden at the White House as an example to the populace, which would NEVER have happened under the Conservative Right-Wing Bush administration.  Left-Wing Community Gardening is now encouraged all over the United States by the Obama administration and they want it to spread.  Gardening as a means of helping with the COMMUNITY food supply in depressed times was SQUELCHED by the Conservative REPUBLICAN Bush administration and would NEVER have been possible if the Left-Wing Obama administration had not have been able to get control of the government.  No Conservative Right-Wing government cares whether or not the populace have fresh vegetables, as they feel the U.S.D.A. commodities of oats, beans, rice and dry milk that they have taken away from the populace, as price supports for private business interests, are good enough for the populace .

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 9, 2010 at 8:07 pm Link to this comment

Windy, - “Still haven’t answered the question, have you.”

-

Not only have I answered quite directly I answered with some depth.

Your turn wink

Try explaining again how two U.S. Presidents and over 500 in the congress and each of the “top Five” in the United Nations, including the majority of weapons inspectors, all believed same same things throughout the entire decade of the 90’s BUT, but, George Bush was lying?

How, in most of the 1990’s, the current Speaker of the House could tell every crowd that would listen how Iraq did indeed posses Banned Weapons all the way up to the point when nothing was found?  And you take that in Lock, Stock and Barrel?

It’s sincerely the damnedest phenomena I’ve seen in my lifetime. 

You were lied to alright!  And you did it to yourself with your hatred of phantoms.  I understand your not wanting to answer this one.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 9, 2010 at 5:27 pm Link to this comment

See how simply answering a direct question in a direct manner is done?  And It didn’t hurt one bit.  Give it a try.
***********

How ‘bout you give it a try?

Are you a right-wing fascist are a tool and dupe of the right-wing fascists? Still haven’t answered the question, have you.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 9, 2010 at 12:37 pm Link to this comment

“We have to defend our future from these predators of the 21st century. They feed on the free flow of information and technology. They actually take advantage of the freer movement of people, information and ideas.”

“And they will be all the more lethal if we allow them to build arsenals of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. We simply cannot allow that to happen.”

There is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein’s Iraq. His regime threatens the safety of his people, the stability of his region and the security of all the rest of us.”

EXTREMIST U.S.  President William Jefferson Clinton. - Feb. 1998

Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.”

EXTREME Former Vice President Al Gore - September 23, 2002

-

Martha,  How’s that EXTREME front row seat in the White House briefing room going for you?

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 9, 2010 at 10:48 am Link to this comment

You speak incorrectly, as only ONE president claimed that Iraq had WMD, George W. Bush, the Republican Regime’s President.  The Conservative EXTREMIST Bush Regime doctored the evidence, and everyone else followed the Conservative EXTREMIST Bush Regime over the cliff.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 9, 2010 at 9:51 am Link to this comment

ITW,

And I answered the question very directly…..LOL.  No.  I believe deeply in the great American constitution and the role of checks and balances. 

Unlike “others” I believe EVERYONE should be heard from with no fear of all parties playing a role in governance.  No one should be castigated or shouted down simply for having an opinion.

Also, as an aside, I was wrong.  Very wrong about WMD in Iraq.  There were no stockpiles to be found.

See how simply answering a direct question in a direct manner is done?  And It didn’t hurt one bit.  Give it a try.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 9, 2010 at 9:25 am Link to this comment

And I’m asking this question:
Are you a right-wing fascist or a tool of the right-wing fascists? 
You’ve already started avoiding the question.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 9, 2010 at 6:32 am Link to this comment

Windy,

That’s not a question, it’s an attack and YOU DAMN WELL KNOW IT!”

YES!  It is an attack.  Nonetheless I’m requesting an answer.  I ask the question because I understand how intelligent you can be when not putting hate and fear before patience and reason. - You desperately wish to rationalize how Nancy Pelosi can warn the world about Iraq’s WMD for six fulls years before the Bush administration only to lie out of her azz after none was found in 2004.  You are not small enough to actually believe that Ted Kennedy can stand on the floor of the Senate in 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002 warning his colleagues about terrorism and banned weapons BUT, after no WMD was found, truthfully claim that he had been mislead about terrorism and WMD by the people you have conditioned yourself to hate and fear.  In the words of Keith Olbermann; only an “IDIOT” could be so partisan or blind.

Only, as you would say, “A Moronic Dupe” would repeat, for almost a decade, the claim that two U.S. Presidents and their entire national security teams, along with over 500 members of congress, along with France, Germany, Britain, Russia, China, India, Poland, Spain, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Egypt could make THE EXACT SAME CLAIMS but your nemesis, Bush, lied when agreeing with each of the above.

Your position falls completely apart when hate is not involved.  My question remains.  How does it feel to have been an obedient dog the a political party for almost seven years and running?

That’s as Sean Hannity/Bill O’Reilly tactic to ask a leading question.”

.....And Katie Couric, Johnathon Alter, David Gregory, Helen Thomas, Laura Ingram, Michele Malkin, Robert Samuelson, Paul Krugman, Keith Olbermann, etc. etc. etc…..

So tell me, are you truly a total fascist or are you a moronic dupe of the right wing fascists?

I am neither and can prove it.  Conclusively.

Now answer the question.  How does it feels to have been so wrong about every major global events since 2000 due to being lied to by people you desire so desperately to trust in?

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 8, 2010 at 6:22 am Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, August 7 at 11:05 pm Link to this comment

Windy,

Why must I asked a question 7-8 times before you buck up?

The question is straightforward.  How does it feel to have been led around like an obedient and docile dog by the democratic party? 
************************

That’s not a question, it’s an attack and YOU DAMN WELL KNOW IT!

That’s as Sean Hannity/Bill O’Reilly tactic to ask a leading question.

So tell me, are you truly a total fascist or are you a moronic dupe of the right wing fascists? (because there is no other possibility)

Maybe I’ll keep repeating THIS question 50 or 60 times and then claim you are avoiding it because you won’t answer “I’m a fascist” or “I’m a dupe”.

That’s what you do—and EVERYBODY here sees it again and again and again.

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 7, 2010 at 7:19 pm Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, August 7 at 11:05 pm,

How does it feel for YOU to be led around like a dog by the Conservative Republican Party?

You couldn’t have anything to protect, or you would not be on this forum, you have to be a toady cuckold.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 7, 2010 at 7:05 pm Link to this comment

Windy,

Why must I asked a question 7-8 times before you buck up?

The question is straightforward.  How does it feel to have been led around like an obedient and docile dog by the democratic party? 

-

You still have not learned that could not care less about the GOP…LOL You have to do better than that wink

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 6, 2010 at 6:37 pm Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, August 5 at 9:18 am post is talking about himself.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 6, 2010 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment

Gave Republicans Your Mind is still trying the GOP kindergarten argument
“But the Dems said so, too!”

But when it came time to MAKE the decision to invade Iraq, there was NO evidence of WMDs that wasn’t deliberately cooked.  Why?  Because Saddam Hussein was smart enough to get rid of them! (How come you right-wing-nuts can’t figger that out????) Yet Bush LIED about the data, even to Colin Powell, to get us into that war.  That’s because Bush was planning to invade Iraq even before he was inaugurated (see Woodward’s book—remember that Bob Woodward is a life-long Republican).

Then we sent in somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 “inspectors” and they found NO WMDs.

I’ve only been WRONG about one thing on foreign policy in the last 20 years.  I thought Bush 41 should have taken Saddam out in ‘91 and that he was wrong to stop.

I’ve since learned that Bush Sr is far wiser than his son, and was ABSOLUTELY CORRECT to NOT topple Saddam.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 6, 2010 at 6:44 am Link to this comment

Thursday 5 August 2010

Tariq Aziz: ‘Britain and the US killed Iraq. I wish I was martyred’

• WMD an illusion was to deter Iran, says former minister
• Nostalgia for Saddam Hussein rule – but he calls on US to stay

When asked why Saddam kept the US guessing about his weapons programme, he confirmed the dictator’s account to his captors that he had been playing to Iran, not to the west. “Partially, it was about Iran [the deterrent factor],” Aziz said. “They had waged war on us for eight years so we Iraqis had a right to deter them. Saddam was a proud man. He had to defend the dignity of Iraq. He had to show that he was not wrong, or weak.

-

Iraq did indeed have every right to deter Iran.

As the Dulfer report indicated, as Saddam Hussein himself said, and now Aziz has told the BBC Iraq’s deliberate “illusion” of WMD led to Hussein’s downfall.

-President Clinton’s entire National Security team warned the world of Iraq’s WMD programs for the last six years of the Clinton administration.

-Every leader of the democrat party warned the world of Iraq’s WMD programs between the years of 1994 through 2004.

-In 2004, after no WMD was found in Iraq, a number of prominent Democratic senators—Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, Ted Kennedy, Tom Daschle, John Edwards, Diane Feinstein, John Kerry, and Harry Reid—who had once given ringing speeches about invading Iraq, now about-faced. They abruptly claimed that they had earlier only reluctantly authorized, not advocated, a war—one that had been illegitimately hyped to them through doctored and misleading intelligence.

So the question is a simple one, Windy.  How does it feel to have been led around like an obedient and docile dog by the democratic party?  Do you blame the Dems for your being so utterly and completely wrong on global events for these many years?

You have been chasing Neo-Con phantoms for years.  You were used, through and through, by politicians for their own personal benefit.  You allowed yourself to be thoroughly manipulated via your blinding hate.

Loosen the grip bigotry and hatred has on you.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 5, 2010 at 7:05 pm Link to this comment

I remind myself that the both of you don’t quite understand what it is you so strenuously advocate.

*******************************

ROTFLMAO!!!!  NOW “Give Republicans Your Mind” is going to tell us liberals how we should think, as liberals!  Oh, that’s just TOO funny.

I actually disagree with MarthaA. We NEED Conservatives in the Democratic party.  We need them to conserve the 14th Amendment.  We need them to get rid of the Patriot Act and go back to BOR-based legal system.  We need them to return us to the 1978 FISA.  We need Conservatives who won’t be pushed by the GOP to compromise our freedoms yet again.

But what we NEED to weed out are the DINOs who follow the GOP/Tea-bagging radical reactionaryism the calls itself “Conservative” but is nothing of the sort.

Ayn Rand has a hero ask the people who are killing the nation’s economy how their plans are going to fix it.  The answer is “Somehow!”  That’s the Right Wing’s answer to how tax cuts and increased military spending and cutting all benefits to the poor and unemployed is going to fix the economy…

“Somehow!”

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 5, 2010 at 5:18 am Link to this comment

ITW/Martha,

I remind myself that the both of you don’t quite understand what it is you so strenuously advocate.

It has always been there in the loose sense of appealing to a human desire for autocracy, political purity, and reactionary calls to return to past mythical glories. Among elite Westerners it has always evoked a certain attraction for the strong man and coercion dressed up as enlightened philosophy.

Orwell was not wrong when he said of Western Marxists that if it paid better they’d be fascists. The chimera of absolute power has a certain hold on Utopians, who claim they need to be devils to the do the work of angels.

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 4, 2010 at 6:30 pm Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, August 4 at 9:59 pm,

What ITW has stated is true, the Conservative REPUBLICAN EXTREMISTS are all that are in the REPUBLICAN PARTY and they consistently WEED out Liberals or anyone who the Conservative EXTREMISTS do not deem conservative enough.

It is fine to have ALL Conservative EXTREMISTS in the REPUBLICAN PARTY, but because they do, ALL Conservatives have to be weeded out of the Democratic Party because that makes our political system too tilted to the Right Wing of the Political Spectrum, where the populace get completely left out of politics.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 4, 2010 at 5:59 pm Link to this comment

ITW,

I’ve never questioned Martha’s honor.  She seems to genuinely believe in the science of Eugenics.  I’ve only opined how you hold so little regard for your own honor. wink

Roughly three months ago you were opining with great passion on the thuggish and closed-minded conservatives amongst the republican party whom wanted to rid the party of anyone not conservative enough.  You were very harsh on such thinking.  Yet you have not the honor to condemn the following myopia.

“All Conservatism needs to be weeded out of the Democratic Party”

Where is the honor in not applying your beliefs equally, and speaking out just as passionately, against such intolerance?

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 4, 2010 at 5:47 pm Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, August 4 at 7:40 pm,

You are a Conservative Right-Wing toady going along with all the vile the Conservative Right-Wing propagandists and downright liars purport for truth as if it is the truth, because you won’t take time or have the intelligence to know what politics really is.

Are you trying to disavow knowledge of the new conservative Neo-Cons, that are Conservative EXTREMISTS?  I guess the Neo-Cons aren’t as proud of themselves as they once were, are they?

As I said before, ALL Conservatism needs to be weeded out of the Democratic Party, because conservatism stands for the aristocracy, NEVER the populace masses.

FYI, Politics is leadership of constituents in their best interest and NON-constituents AGAINST their best interest. 

The populace is not a Conservatives constituency and the populace is not a Conservative REPUBLICAN’S constituency.

Here the Conservative Republicans go again continuing with their false and misleading attacks in support of the aristocracy instead of the populace:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/08/03/there-they-go-again-two-senators-continue-false-and-misleading-attacks-recovery-act?utm_source=080410&utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=daily

The populace is a liberal constituency.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 4, 2010 at 5:02 pm Link to this comment

Hey! MarthaA!
We’ve been “promoted” by Gave Republicans Your Mind!

We used to be “dishonorable”. Now we are “racist and small-minded bigots” because we hate racists and small-minded bigots that GRYM defends.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 4, 2010 at 3:40 pm Link to this comment

MarthaA, - “The Neo-Con cabal wormed their way into the White House and are in plain sight.’ - ‘All Conservatism needs to be weeded out of the Democratic Party….”

-

-I do not believe in goblins, phantoms or Neo-Cons.

-I do not believe in the Good guys and the Bad guys in Washington.

-I believe you are a hateful and small-minded bigot whom causes tremendous pain and unnecessary division.

-I believe you are, in effect, an contributing factor in the causes of war amongst men.

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 4, 2010 at 1:16 pm Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, August 4 at 9:24 am,

“And not a Neo-Con cabal in sight of the White House.”—Go Right Young Man, August 4 at 9:24 am

You have got to be kidding.  The Neo-Con cabal wormed their way into the White House and are in plain sight. 

All Conservatism needs to be weeded out of the Democratic Party, because conservatism stand for the aristocracy, NEVER the populace masses.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 4, 2010 at 5:24 am Link to this comment

ITW, - “It pisses the SHIT out of me that Obama has not called for the Patriot Act to be repealed, and the FISA to be rolled back to the 1978 standards.”

-

It should piss you off.  The democratic congress and the democratic president first expanded the Patriot Act and then killed the sunset provision which was built into the mandate.  The Patriot Act is now PERMANENT!  And not a Neo-Con cabal in sight of the White House. 

In fact, not a single Republican, Neo-con, conservative, phantom or Gremlin voted to kill the sunset provision.  100%, pure, unadulterated, democratic control of the legislature and White House STRENGTHENED the Patriot Act.

How do you rationalize this?  With an truly odd attempt to find an horrific, behind-the-scenes, “Neo-Con cabal” to blame.  The poor democrats.  Always the weak hapless victims of the bad men.

Hogwash!  Lose the blinding hatred.

-

Guantanamo, the Patriot Act, Domestic Surveillance, Indefinite detention, “Enhanced” Interrogations, Drone attacks, Iraq and Iran.  Every bit if it now completely owned by, as you believe, “the good caring people” in Washington.  Not a Neo-Con Gremlin in sight!

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, August 3, 2010 at 9:04 pm Link to this comment

GRYM:

You can twist it as much as you like.  My condemnation of the Dims is due to their caving and kow-towing to your beloved neo-cons because the Dims are flat-out spineless and ball-less—but they aren’t fundamentally TRYING to destroy America. And they aren’t going back to the first half of the 20th Century when Southern Pols were ALL openly racist, unlike the Re-thugs. They just don’t have the guts to stand up to the Re-thugs who want to do it and, frankly, manage PR better.

It pisses the SHIT out of me that Obama has not called for the Patriot Act to be repealed, and the FISA to be rolled back to the 1978 standards.  Yeah, power corrupts, but I’d rather trust that power to Dims than to Re-Thugs, who used it as a wrecking ball, rather than a scalpel.

Don’t give me any chances.  I think you are a deluded fool. And I pity you.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, August 3, 2010 at 11:02 am Link to this comment

ITW, - “Yup.  I’m filled with hate for them.  And I make no apologies for it.”

-

Finally some realism.  Now learn the many ways in which hate blinds the mind and bends perceptions. 

Example:  How many times did you go on about Guantanamo, the Patriot Act, Domestic Surveillance, Indefinite detention, Enhanced Interrogations, Drone attacks, Iraq and Iran as PROOF POSITIVE of a Neo-Con cabal in the White House?  And the, oh-so frightening, narrative of the “fascist” cabal taking over the world. 

Each of the above are not only in full force but have been expanded under a democratic White House and full control of a democratic Congress.

There was absolutely no changing your mind or showing you a much broader perspective.  Where are the Neo-Cons now?  Running the White House and Congress from Frankencheney’s Wyoming ranch?

How many times did you go on and on and on about President Bush “tearing down our Constitution for short-term political gains” so he could keep control of the White House after 2008?

You actually expect people to simply forget your odd prognostications and your belief in “NEO-CON” Phantoms taking over the globe?  You want me to somehow believe that you now have a grip?  NOT A CHANCE…LOL

I will give you every opportunity. - Drop the hate and a whole new world will open before you.  A world you likely never knew existed.

Report this
William W. Wexler's avatar

By William W. Wexler, August 3, 2010 at 10:22 am Link to this comment

” You see, I’m not bound up by “self-loathing” and a “misplaced sense of guilt”

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You don’t have to loathe yourself, you have people to do that for you.

I believe, however, that you are wrong about your “misplaced sense of guilt”.  It’s not misplaced, it’s dead.  That’s the problem with the right, you’re mostly dead to what separates us from animals.  If you can’t drive it, wear it, spend it, eat it, or screw it, you have no use for it.

Report this

Page 1 of 3 pages  1 2 3 >

 
Monsters of Our Own Creation? Get tickets for this Truthdig discussion of America's role in the Middle East.
Right 1, Site wide - BlogAds Premium
 
Right Skyscraper, Site Wide
Right 2, Site wide - Blogads
 
Join the Liberal Blog Advertising Network
 
 
 

A Progressive Journal of News and Opinion   Zuade Kaufman, Publisher   Robert Scheer, Editor-in-Chief
© 2014 Truthdig, LLC. All rights reserved.

Like Truthdig on Facebook