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The Deadly Cost of Blocking Health Care Reform

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Posted on Dec 18, 2009
Howard Dean
AP / Charles Dharapak

Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean answers a question at a public meeting on health care reform hosted by Dean and Rep. Jim Moran in Reston, Va., last August.

By Bill Boyarsky

The liberals attacking the Senate health reform bill must never have known real illness. They’ve never been fired at the age of 50 and left without health insurance. They’ve probably never known anyone who died for lack of health insurance.

Those are the only reasons I can think of for their last-minute and thoroughly despicable assault on the bill struggling through the Senate.

Spare me their attacks on President Barack Obama, who doesn’t measure up to their impossible standards. And spare me Howard Dean. I thought Joe Lieberman was the dumbest politician from New England until Dean urged Senate Democrats to vote against health reform.

These people are every bit as destructive as the Senate Republicans who spent Friday holding up a defense spending bill that included a pay raise for the troops.

Thousands of people are likely to die if this health care bill is not signed into law.

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That’s the conclusion of studies by the Urban Institute and the Institute of Medicine. Their predictions have been pretty much ignored as Obama’s Democratic critics whine about his failure to support the public option or the provision permitting those 55 and older to buy into Medicare.

The studies, based on census figures, looked at the years 2000 through 2006 and estimated that 137,000 died because they lacked health insurance. In 2006, 22,000 died. According to the studies, the death rate of the uninsured was 25 percent higher than that of the insured.

Washington Post blogger Ezra Klein, one of the sharpest journalists writing about the health fight, noted that “since the population of the uninsured grows every year, and so does the death toll, it surely would be higher [than 137,000].” He estimated the number would grow to 150,000 dead.

“The uninsured are less likely to seek early care,” he wrote. “They are less likely to get good care. They are less likely to return for follow-up care. They are less likely to afford the maintenance of chronic conditions. … Medicare saved lives. Medicaid saved lives. … And health-care reform will save lives, too. … And those who would be so cavalier as to close the door because of the public option or the Medicare buy-in, or the absence of either thing, should think long and hard about those numbers.”

I didn’t hear Dr. Howard Dean, speaking from the sidelines, talk about saving lives when he denounced the bill in the Senate. I just saw a disagreeable, disappointed politician, angry because Obama didn’t appoint him to be secretary of health and human services and didn’t support him for another term as national party chairman.

Then MSNBC jumped on the anti-Obama bandwagon, hoping to attract a big audience of liberals in its competition with right-wing Fox News. Along for the ride are a lot of liberal bloggers, sensing they can attract readers.

It’s infuriating watching the Senate Republicans waste time in their repetitive rants, holding up everything in an attempt to run out the clock and beat health reform that way. The Republican goal is clear: Kill this bill and set the stage for victories in the congressional election in 2010 and the presidential election in 2012.

But Democratic liberals are supposed to value human lives. Those who’ve chosen to take a stand against health reform are willing to let people die because the current bill isn’t exactly what they want.

This bill is better than anything in our present health care system. It will be improved in Senate-House conference. It will be further improved in years ahead. And it will save lives.


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By skyeapril, December 19, 2009 at 11:07 pm Link to this comment

Since you, Bill Boyarsky, think this bill is so great and should be passed let me ask who’s paying you to say so? YOUR motives should be the ones questioned here.

Watching four Senators from the Democratic caucus continue to weaken a compromised bill is reason enough to oppose a give away to the medical industrial complex. This author doesn’t speak for me or my reasons, but I can state that I have personally spent hundreds of hours and donated a lot of money to see this bill passed.

Howard Dean has spoken for a lot of us and with good reason, this bill has become a shell of its former self. It is forcing people to purchase plans which is a big gift to the insurance companies. Their stocks rise with each weakening of the bill. None of us believes Congress will “fix it” in the future, so that argument won’t fly. We need a bill that helps people and this one is not the one.

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By Anarcissie, December 19, 2009 at 7:35 pm Link to this comment

I think Boyarsky should be removed from this site.  Besides being a corporatist, he doesn’t show its audience any respect.

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By Caro, December 19, 2009 at 7:32 pm Link to this comment

I’ve experienced all the things you mention in your
first paragraph, and I am against passing this bill.

Forcing people to buy crappy, overpriced insurance is
not going to be good for the Democratic Party. But hey,
maybe that’s a good thing. Maybe we can finally start a
viable third party.

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com

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By Liquor Store Larry, December 19, 2009 at 7:09 pm Link to this comment

truedigger3 - the manner in which Harges raised Lieberman’s association with Israel in the context of the health care debate IS WHY I brought it up. Glad to see that anti-Semitic Jack Asses like you are distinguishing yourself by leading with your mouth! Try reading FIRST and shooting off your gaping pie hole second and then you too might be responsive!

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By Shift, December 19, 2009 at 6:25 pm Link to this comment

Insurance costs will significantly increase, deductibles will rise, and co-pay’s will rise because there is no serious cost containment in the Senate bill.  It is as license to kill.

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By Jim Foley, December 19, 2009 at 6:20 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Gee, I find it interesting that no one has raised the argument that the governmant mandating that we buy insurance (product) is socialism.  Right there it tells you that government and insurance industry are all in bed together.

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By NABNYC, December 19, 2009 at 6:13 pm Link to this comment

Nonsense.  This is a terrible bill.  The real “choice” should not be between this piece of corporate give-away corruption and real healthcare.  The real choice should be to reject this piece of corrupt corporate give-away written by the health industry and pushed by all the corrupt Democratic leaders, and tell the Democrats to go back and this time give us a real healthcare program, one that will help all of us.

When the Democrats say this bill will “provide coverage” for an addition 40 million Americans, that is untrue.  It will simply order them to buy insurance.  They could do that right now, without the stinkin’ bill, if they could afford it. 

The problem with healthcare is that it’s too expensive.  Many doctors make well over $1.0 million/year, hospitals pay their corporate owners millions in profits, drug companies grossly overcharge.  Yet the Democrats did nothing to “fix” what is truly the problem with healthcare in this country:  it’s too expensive for most people to afford.

Thanks for nothing.

The only reason the Democrats want to pass this bill is so that (1) they can campaign on lies, telling the public that they passed healthcare reform when they didn’t; and (2) becuase the Democrats will receive enormous kick-backs from the medical industry for the estimated $100 billion per year in additional income to the insurance companies as a result of this bill.

Not only can I not afford my own healthcare, but now I will also be paying to provide unaffordable healthcare to other Americans.  Instead of changing the system and bringing down the prices, such as by allowing people to choose to buy into Medicare, the Democrats are propping up the most corrupt medical system in the world, and doing so by stealing money from the already-impoverished American working people.  What change?

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By wildflower, December 19, 2009 at 6:07 pm Link to this comment

RE Harges: “It’s especially galling to see Boyarsky trying to paint Lieberman as a
harmless ?bumbler by calling him “dumb”.

Yes, what gives with this? Why do so many Democrats say things like this about Lieberman?  It was more than harmless bumbling when Lieberman was pushing for the illegal invasion of Iraq, cheering for neo-conservative ideologies, bombing Iran, and comparing that Reverend Hagee to Moses.

“I would describe Pastor Hagee with the words the Torah uses to describe Moses, he is an “Eesh Elo Kim,” a man of God because those words fit him; and, like Moses he has become the leader of a mighty multitude in pursuit of and defense of Israel . . .”

Hagee can be compared to a lot of people, but Moses.  This is SAME Reverend Hagee whose sermons included statements like:

“Adolf Hitler’s anti-Semitism derived especially from his Catholic background.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/07/26/lieberman_hagee/

“All Muslims are programmed to kill and we can thus never negotiate with any
of them.” http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6097362

“God caused Hurricane Katrina to wipe out New Orleans because it had a gay
pride parade the week before and was filled with sexual sin.”
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6097362

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By Southern Gal, December 19, 2009 at 6:02 pm Link to this comment

The passing of the health insurance bailout bill now proposed by the Senate is pure politics at its worst. Obama has to have a victory on this, because the Beltway spokepeople and the corporate media have called this his Waterloo, saying if he can’t get this legislation passed now he is finished. To save face, he is willing to push Congress for passing healthcare legislation by Christmas. The House has the much better bill and there needs to be time enough for negotiations to put back the pieces such as the public option and opening up Medicare, that will force private insurers to provide better services and be more cost effective.  Thank you Howard for pointing out the obvious. Progressives have to stand up for real reform and for the people.  DOes anyone really believe that if Congress passes legislaton that is mostly the Senate version, that it can be revisited anytime soon to fix the problems? Dream on.

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By the worm, December 19, 2009 at 6:01 pm Link to this comment

Here’s the latest from the Washington Post:
With Nelson on board, health-care bill could pass by Christmas
By Shailagh Murray and Lori Montgomery
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, December 19, 2009; 1:30 PM
“Reid’s package also would give patients the right of appeal to an independent
state board if an insurer denies a medical claim. And all insurance companies
would be required to spend at least 80 cents of every dollar they collect in
premiums on delivering care to their customers.” An individual’s ‘right to
appeal’ is reminiscent of the line spoken by a tobacco industry litigator in
‘Thank You for Smoking’. When asked by his son “What makes America great,
Dad?”, the corporate attorney replied “Endless appeals.” Thank you, Senator
Reid, but we’ve seen this play. But the next line in the Post summary of the
‘compromise’ reveals even more: “And all insurance companies would be
required to spend at least 80 cents of every dollar they collect in premiums on
delivering care to their customers.” The 80/20 ‘Compromise’ is by far the most
blatant admission that Reid et al have crafted yet another corporate bailout at
the citizens’ expense. And here’s an added ?insult brought by the White House
to everyone who is not a private sector health ?insurance corporate employee:
Because both the right and the left think citizens should not be mandated by
their government to provide corporate welfare for private sector health
insurance companies with both taxes (paid to corporations as ‘subsidies’ to
cover the poor who cannot afford to payoff the ?corporations) and premiums
(20 percent of which are not used to provide health care services), they have
persuaded themselves that independents will ?just love it!  That’s a three-
bagger: They’ve insulted the independents, the right and the left. And who are
these political masterminds, who, like Bush, are good at getting elected and,
like Bush, very good at ignoring the American people? They are Obama and the
Democratic Party right-wingers (the so-called ‘Centrists’). But, unlike Bush,
Obama will not be re-elected. What are we, Democratic voters, going to do to
get Democrats next time? Let’s start now, as the Republicans are well on their
way reviving from their pre-maturely announced death, just one year ago. How
fast in this world of ‘instant communications’ can political ineptitude be
exposed! We cannot afford to let the nation be governed against the interests
of the people. We must start by killing the 80 / 20 ‘Compromise’.

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By Cassiodorus, December 19, 2009 at 5:35 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Yeah this Boyarsky piece is crap, for the dozens of reasons cited above.

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By drs, December 19, 2009 at 5:14 pm Link to this comment

I agree with Howard Dean.  I don’t have insurance and I don’t want this bill. Don’t try to force me to give my money to a private insurance company to enhance their damned profits.  I WON’T DO IT!  You can fine me all you want—I WON’T WILLINGLY PAY YOUR DAMNED FINES: I WILL FIGHT THEM!  Your argument about these people not knowing what it’s like to be without insurance is bogus when you argue that we should donate our money to private-profit companies.

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By Dan, December 19, 2009 at 5:08 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Don’t worry. This bill will get much worse in conference committee, not better. 
Haven’t we all noticed the steady downward trend this year?  By the time it passes,
it’s going to stink to high heaven. It’s really fear-mongering to use the argument,
as Boyarsky does, that tens of thousands of people are going to die if we don’t
pass this bill.  That’s the sort of logic that Cheney and Bush and company used to
get all their repressive legislation through Congress from 2001 through 2008.
This will probably be the last Boyarsky column that I ever read.

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By mitchum22, December 19, 2009 at 4:35 pm Link to this comment

And I thought Joe Conason was an Establishment-sucking twit until I read Chef Boyardee.

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By bogglesthemind, December 19, 2009 at 4:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Why am I reminded of how the Democrats caved and kissed Cheney-Bush’s
‘button’ during all those halcyon days now known as the Dark Ages ll?

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By tahitifp, December 19, 2009 at 4:01 pm Link to this comment

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/dfa-poll-56-dems-say-if-theres-no-pub


The last paragraph is really scary.

Dr. Dean opened the call by saying “this bill has always been a giveaway to the insurance industry, but we were willing to compromise” to get the public option.

He recapped all the compromises we made: “We wanted single payer, but that was taken off the table early on. That was a mistake. We had to get to the place where we had health insurance for all Americans.” But now, he said, there’s no public option, and no Medicare option.

“You’re forced to pay money to an insurance company or get fined $750 by your government, while 27% of your money goes to CEOs who are flying around in these private jets,” he said.

He talked about the compromises made for pre-existing conditions, the most disturbing one the ability to charge you 300% more, merely for being older. “It’s guaranteed issue, but if you’re making $65,000 a year for a family of four and you’re paying $20,000 for insurance, how is that reform?”

He said the real bad stuff in the Senate bill was
“hidden in the weeds, so you can’t find it.”

Dr. Dean brushed aside the “Get a bill, any bill” mentality in Washington. “Any legislation passed will have a huge impact on American healthcare. If they can’t fix it, it shouldn’t pass.”

Wendell Potter, former CIGNA executive and reform activist, said the insurance industry got “every single thing they wanted” in the Senate bill.

“There’s no individual mandate, no public option. There’s also three words, ‘benefit design flexibility’ in Senate bill – that means the freedom to design plans that will pass more and more of us into ranks of the underinsured - and charge up to 22% of income if someone gets sick,” he said.

much more at link

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By warburton, December 19, 2009 at 3:47 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I disagree with your article.

When you start charging 300% and more to insure folks over 65, that’s neither universal health care nor an ‘option’, and guess who benefits?

Howard Dean is right.

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By Hank from Nebraska, December 19, 2009 at 3:38 pm Link to this comment

It now appears that the Senate’s pro-insurance non-healthcare bill was what Obama planned from the start.  The whole series of acts by the administration and the “moderate” Senators is little more than an effort to justify the profits to the insurance industry this bill is designed to provide. 
Before anyone follows Boyarsky over the cliff, we should recognize that no progressive would have supported this bill last spring.  So why support it now?  The only way to get a bill with a full public option (or even better, a single payer program) is for progressives to say “no” now, just as they would have six months ago.

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By Lesley Palmer, December 19, 2009 at 3:26 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Bill, Bill, Bill,

Well, the White House and the Senate Democrats have declared victory at securing 60 votes for their “health care reform” today.  So, you can rest easy. 

Meanwhile, for us poor stupid schlubs (whether conservative, liberal, or progressive):
1.  We will be forced to buy insurance from the same greedy bastards who have pillaged the American public for over 40 years and who now will be guaranteed 30 million new clients.
2.  Giant pharmaceutical companies can feel free to charge the maximum amount for their products in this country, with no competition.
3.  People with “pre-existing conditions” will not be denied health insurance coverage…no, Bill, they will be offered health insurance at rates triple of what the average person is charged…and then be FINED by the government if they cannot afford the policy.
4.  Medical bankruptcy will not disappear…it will increase.
5.  With no public option, no non-profit option, no Medicare inclusion for other age groups, premiums will soar and people will die anyways.

Don’t worry, Bill, you can write about this again in 4 years, when everyone realizes they’ve been had.

Lesley Palmer
Los Alamitos, California

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By Bud, December 19, 2009 at 3:20 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

As I have stated in my earlier post,every son of a bitch in Sin City AKA Washington D.C. is on the take at the expense of EVERYONB IN AMERICA.I have no goddamn use for any politician in that corrupt city. When are we going to eliminate the senate.They are nothing short of over paid under achieving assholes!! Let me reiterate,I said EVERYONE,that includes liberals,conservatives,moderates,blue dogs,purple dogs,yellow dogs,or any other kind of DOG!

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By altspoken, December 19, 2009 at 3:17 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If no strong public option open to everyone, then no mandate to purchase insurance. Do the Democrats’ have a must-have bottom line? Oh yes, it’s 60 votes in the Senate! It seems this is a legislative exercise for many of our representatives in Congress. People’s lives ARE on the line, but Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi would have us believe it’s the votes that matter. No such giveaway should ever pass the President’s desk.

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By truedigger3, December 19, 2009 at 3:05 pm Link to this comment

By phreedom, December 19 at 4:57 pm #


Thank you for an excellent insightful piece.

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By Chris Ostrom, December 19, 2009 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Rather engaging.

What I mean is that rather than engaging in debate about real reform, and implementing changes that benefit US citizens, we’re seeing our Congress mandate the largest gift of cash from Americans to the insurance industry ever.

Once the public option was gone, and Medicare buy-in was ruled out, wait, no, once our ‘progressive’ president sold us down the river to PHRMA, the only real decision to be made in Washington was how shiny to make this turd before they could declare they are done polishing it.

This bill is shit, and if anything near the Senate version passes, we are fucked. Pardon my French.

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By Birch, December 19, 2009 at 3:00 pm Link to this comment

Bravo prole!

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By truedigger3, December 19, 2009 at 2:52 pm Link to this comment

Liquor store Larry wrote:
“Having extrapolated your contempt for Israel into why ...”
___________________________________________________

What Israel has to with this debate. OOOh , I see your stupid f*&KING; point, any one who critisized Lieberman is antisemetic and consequently hates Israel.
Real moron you are!

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By rottencommierat, December 19, 2009 at 2:18 pm Link to this comment

This so called health care bill is a giveaway to the Medical Mafia.  The working poor who will be required to either buy insurance from the Medical Mafia or get fined, will not be able to actually use the so called “health care” because they cannot afford to pay the deductibles.  If we had a system of justice based on justice, most of the Democrats and Republicans would be in maximum security prisons for life, with no possibility of paroll

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By jean Gerard, December 19, 2009 at 2:15 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I’m an absolute ignoramus on this subject, and I’m ashamed of that—but a
few questions have been occurring to me that never get answered anywhere, so
here goes:

1. Where are all the TV ads, the printed announcements and information
sheets, the blogs and editorials, the lobbying phone calls from physicians’ and
surgeons’ organizations, nurses’ organizations, hospital workers’ groups,
unions, therapists groups—people who see untreated health problems first-
hand and are eager to “do no harm.”  Why aren’t they tellinlg the public the
flaws in the present “system,” the amount of cheating that goes on, the flaws
that permit insurance companies to “game” sick people etc.?? I would expect
that those who “do no harm” would feel a responsibility to take an active part in
this debate by informing the public about what needs to be done to make the
system fair.

2.  Why is Howard Dean the only doctor who has the guts to protest?  And how
can anyone expect that one man could do the job of an entire huge profession.
Why should he have to take all the flack?

Might be stupid questions ,but there they are.  .

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By Eddie, December 19, 2009 at 1:31 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

A bad healthcare bill is NOT a good healthcare bill.
This does NOTHING to help people improve they health or the rising cost of healthcare.

This article is BS!!!

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By uki, December 19, 2009 at 1:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

boyarski is just another apologist for the democrat’s side of the one
party we have in this country—the bought-and-paid-for creeps on
both sides of the aisle in washington.

obama is no less a wolf in sheep’s clothing (HOPE!  CHJANGE!) with
his high oratory than bush was with his compassionate conservatism
and mangled good-ol’-boy english.

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By bozhidar, December 19, 2009 at 1:20 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

So, the talk is still baout how and whom to insure and not at all about it being one the most basic rights; the right to receice medical care or have an equal share of what there is of it.
And forget ab money and where it is going to come from? tnx

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By the worm, December 19, 2009 at 1:14 pm Link to this comment

thank you, phreedom, for insights. nice piece.

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By phreedom, December 19, 2009 at 12:57 pm Link to this comment

Part 1 of 2

Hello Bill,

Do you really think that the death rate for being uninsured is gonna go down among those being forced to buy insurance with the “mandate”. Where exactly are the hard numbers of your study. You are just laying fear on fear with this argument. For all those who are at risk, and Obama had pointed out in the past, largely to do with the fact they cannot afford any insurance.

Before you put your faith in the “hardship provision”, Axelrod has promoted as the answer to non-affordability, do your homework on the bankruptcy “hardship” clause, that the banks inserted into the Bankruptcy code just a short time back(really needs to removed). Any kind of “hardship” provision, as the bankruptcy provision has set the precedent for, well, the standard “hardship” provision or clause in our system blames the citizen for a crappy run economic system, and sets the stage to righteously(legally) prey on and game its citizen’s finances.  A “hardship provision” will only mean ultimate indignity for a successfully gamed citizen, and create a mandate/license for ruthless methods of the IRS, and the soon to be booming collection industry, which seeks to collect on debt taken out by the mandated citizen to pay for their required insurance payment, they cannot afford normally without more debt. Yes, lets all watch for all those jobs that will be created in the “insurance penalty collection industry”, an industry that will become very specialized,  and made righteous, about their profiting from the insurance industry’s “super free lunch”(insurance mandate). 

Insurance actuary tables are not unlike the programs(software) developed to trade derivatives, which we have come to know as financial instruments of a secret & exclusive markets, completed unregulated & fully proprietary activity. Remember, derivative trading had only one aim in mind, to make trading profits of the rich unassailable or otherwise insured against loss. This was double jeopardy to the tax payer, as the citizenry’s national treasure was gamed against them, and later those same “gamed” citizens were forced to refinanced the same schemers that took them to the cleaners. The insurance mandate automatically makes the insurance companies, “to big to fail” and enshrines a monopoly in the industry. The insurance companies will game the insurance mandated citizens with their actuary software programs, and them those same citizens will bail them out with their taxes when the now few insurance companies have become to big to fail, made to big to fail with insurance mandated capital.

By the way do you know that the term “actuary” is an Americanism, meaning a specialist in the mathematics of insurance who calculates rates, reserves, dividends and other statistics. Whereas, in most other industrialized countries an individual, who would be called an “actuary”, well, in most other civilized & industrialized countries the individual is known simply as a “mathematician.

(part 2 on the way)

Rhuen Phreed
11 Marlborough Street, #22
Boston, MA 02119

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By phreedom, December 19, 2009 at 12:56 pm Link to this comment

Part 2 of 2

Was anyone really surprised that so many people die each year because they do not have access to “healthcare”. To have couched the Harvard survey, as so many dying for lack of “health insurance” is just bizarre to me. I wonder how many die each year for lack of healthcare?  What about the much greater number of people, a number that most likely dwarfs the dead, who have unbearably miserable lives, year after year, that “nearly die” each year, in so many a-mortal ways?

We need to do away with the health insurance industry, and create a healthcare industry, plain and simply. My dear Bill, we have a dog eat dog system, fully invested in the survival of the fittest, a system which preys on the institutionalization of the disparity between those who can afford to survive and those who cannot afford to survive. Subtle and clever, but truly a form of free market eugenics if not genocide.

Do you really think they are going to dump the “mandate in conference? The reason for so many casualties, those who have died from no access to healthcare, well, is a function of free market systemics, coupled with the grotesque American notion that “only the worthy should survive capitalism”.  The first step can only be one without the mandate, and later a strong public option or medicare buy in, at as young as 17 years of age, otherwise Bill, as in Bill Boyarsky, you are signing a much larger death warrant if you succeed in your attempt to confuse the bigger issue of failied systemics, and political corruption.

We can only support the courageous who are willing to change the system, and really steer clear of growing the system that kills so many people each year. The insurance actuary tables need a certain amount dead do to lack of care, it is amazing that anyone would trust the motive of profit to administer health and well-being. Lets blame these murders on the murderers, and not transfer blame to those who refuse to be accomplices to the actuary math of death and suffering.

(finished)

Rhuen Phreed
11 Marlborough Street, #22
Boston, MA 02119

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By truedigger3, December 19, 2009 at 12:20 pm Link to this comment

Bill Boyarsy wrote:
“Spare me their attacks on President Barack Obama, who doesn’t measure up to their impossible standards”
_____________________________________________________

Is it “impossible standards” to have a public option or at least public option for peopel older than 55.
Is is “impossible standard” to have some mechanism to control the rate increase in isurance and rising prices of drugs and medical services.
Is it acceptable to force people to buy insurance at gouging prices.
That Boyarsky instead of attacking Lieberman, bue Democrats, and the health care idustrial complex and urging Obama, for once , to be a “man”, is now attacking Howard Dean.! What a farce.

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By dihey, December 19, 2009 at 12:19 pm Link to this comment

Mr. Boyarski shows his monumental ignorance when he writes: “They’ve probably never known anyone who died for lack of health insurance”. Seldom have I read such abysmal nonsense. Poor, uninsured people do not die for lack of health insurance but for lack of full medical and pharmaceutical care. Bill, your scare tactics reek.

With regards to the poor who are unable to get decent medical care after release from the emergency room the issue is analogous to making sure that no one dies of hunger in our nation. To achieve this the president has to go before the nation and appeal to our most decent instincts to support a rational plan that will achieve this goal. President Obama has not done this yet and it is also obvious that it is much too late to play this card. He and his supporters hawk their 30 million more insured mantra because they are in panic mode. Well, a good many of the 30 million are not poor and do not deserve the urgent attention needed for the really poor.

This effort will demand lots of funding. The federal food stamp program is the template. It takes taxpayers money, gives it to poor persons in the form of food stamps, which they use to purchase food at reduced prices. My federal health care (notice: not health insurance) program issues “chits” for medical care. Your “chit” is simply membership in a federal “single payer” program. Your income level as an individual, the income level of a couple, or the income level of a family will determine whether you qualify for this form of medi-care. Your membership is your “medical stamp” to “purchase” the needed care, not the insurance to do so.

Although I have advanced this idea I still think that it is woefully imperfect and much too complicated. Why restrict simple access to medical care to the poor? “Single payer” for all is the only way out of the health care (once again, not insurance)morass. ONCE AGAIN: THE FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE IS CARE AND NOT INSURANCE. If that is accepted it follows that we do not need private health insurance companies at all. Let them die a deserved death without insurance!

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Liquor Store Larry's avatar

By Liquor Store Larry, December 19, 2009 at 12:17 pm Link to this comment

By the way Mr. Harges, Lieberman DID NOT “block health care reform”. He merely said he would not accept certain provisions that he found impossible to fund without further destroying what’s left of the economy. Are you suggesting that THIS WOULD BE A GOOD BILL if the ONE PROVISION that Joe Lieberman said was not acceptable to him was in it? I submit the bill would still be a piece of garbage with an “age 55 medicare buy in” or not. Oh, and by the way some one WOULD still have to pay for it and it would still come out of the hide of baby boomers who little besides Medicare left. Having extrapolated your contempt for Israel into why a truly lousy health care bill isn’t passing is stereotypical ... YOU sir, must be “progressive”!

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By Liquor Store Larry, December 19, 2009 at 11:57 am Link to this comment

“Jane Hamsher is a bigot” indeed gimme a big AMEN! I will go one step farther. You can not blog at Firedog Lake unless you hate Jews! These angry Bozos who euphemistically call themselves “progressive” which is code for “yea, I’m liberal but with the qualification that I hate Jews” is to distinguish themselves as members of this not so exclusive club. Marcy Winograd, who is running in 2010 for Jane Harmon’s congressional seat and “commie” Peter Thottam are simple Jew haters albeit in Winograd’s case a self loathing Jew who is still unconsciously working out some childhood angst. Hamsher is still squawking about Hadassah Lieberman having conflicts of interest but has yet to even mention if she is doing a great job raising money for breast cancer research and/or if that funding might suffer if she succeeds in prosecuting her personal vendetta.

Dr.Howard Dean and many who posted comments are absolutely right in saying that as vile as the insurance industry is, making us bend over in front of them sans lubricant is not going to make it better.

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By Bud, December 19, 2009 at 11:47 am Link to this comment
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This bill is a piece of shit!!!Henceforth,I will not donate,support,or vote for ANY DEMOCRAT IN ANY FUTURE ELECTION!!!!If these bastards want republicans,we will give them republicans These assholes in the senate(ALL OF THEM)would walk across a field of whores to fuck their own mothers!!!

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By felicity, December 19, 2009 at 11:33 am Link to this comment

I’m with Dean on this.  Being an MD, he is following the edict he probably learned in med school, “Do no harm,” which is what this latest abomination of a health-care bill will violate.

Looking at some numbers:  30,000 medicare patients die every year from over treatment while 20,000 die from lack of access to health care. Analyses advised.

So the bill does away with denying health insurance based on a pre-existing condition?  Except, if you’re over a certain age, have a pre-existing condition, you’ll be charged 3 times the premium amount of a younger person - in other words, the price to you will, in effect, keep you uninsured.

This is the kind of stuff which has moved Dean to advise a negative vote.  He’s merely abiding by “First, do no harm.”

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By ink, December 19, 2009 at 11:20 am Link to this comment
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Thank you Bill Boyarsky for not providing anything but useless banter over this new development of Dean’s opinion on the healthcare bill.  I think I understand now.. Dean = Lieberman… Right?  great analysis. 

How can I complain to Rob Sheer?  eh, I’m sick of Rob Sheer, too.

We’re so screwed!

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By truthleftout, December 19, 2009 at 11:02 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Since when has anything been improved over time. In fact just the opposite occurs: legislation in the public interest is slowly weakened, not strengthened.

New Deal financial regulation has been decimated, not made stronger. Deregulation, starting in the 70s weakened consumer protections and led to merger mania and less competition. The 1976 Telecommunications Act (under Bill Clinton) weakened regulation on telecom companies leading to 5 mega-media corporations controlling everything we read, see and hear. The ending of the New Deal Glass-Steagall Act in 1999 (under Bill Clinton again), led to our recent Wall Street debacle and too-big-to-fail financial institutions.

The Constitution gave the power to declare war to Congress; today, Congress effectively has no war making power, having handed it over lock-stock-and-barrell to the Executive Branch.

Medicare is being weakened by budget cuts. Republicans have made attempts to privatize Social Security.

The current health care “reform” legislation, if it passes, will be weakened over time by health insurance industry attacks, and the buying-off of our elected representatives.

Let’s face the reality of American politics today - legislation in the public interest is never strengthened over time.

Kill The Bill!

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By Bluestorm, December 19, 2009 at 10:26 am Link to this comment
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We expect Obama and the Congress to deliver real health care reform. We don’t apologize for demanding that Obama and Reid work for us. Obama made secret back room deals with big pharma last summer—wtf? Rahm tells us we don’t exist and don’t listen to us?  We are the grass roots that got them elected with our money and hard work. We will not turn over the entire healthcare system to the lobbyists and sellouts. This is the time to stop the Senate version and get public option back in. Period.

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By Thong-girl, December 19, 2009 at 10:17 am Link to this comment

The people of the U.S.A. are pretty smart, yet we fail to accept the limits of our power and freedom.  We walk in lockstep at things like health care and accept whatever Washington and our state crooks throw to us.  Yet most are sick of the bones and scraps and tied up in knots about what to do about it.  We don’t like war, but we love warriors; we don’t like corruption, but we continue to throw money to them.  This sort of lock is what politicians love about their jobs. It’s simple to jam stuff down our throats, because they know they have the leashes to pull us wherever they want us to go.  The only real power for our people today is the purse.  Since that is all the D.C. whores respect, it is our job to hold it back from them.  Dump incumbents ought to be the national cry, yet so many don’t like it because it somehow offends their territorial genetic makeup.  If we could exhibit just one time some common sense about zeroing in against those most repudiated, like Lieberman or Nelson, if we could collectively, by state, get some momentum to rid the likes of Feinstein and Boxer here in CA with someone other than the crooked Fiorino or Whitman, we would have them in the palm of our hands. 

Preach ‘throw out all incumbents’ and you will see the power shift, and the lackies take their appropriate places at the foot of the table where we can occasionally throw them scraps when they behave as we want them to behave.

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By nuanced, December 19, 2009 at 10:16 am Link to this comment
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I can’t believe this load of cr*p is coming out of truthdig… I did a double take to see which website I was on.

Blind allegiance is what gave the world Hitler…

Shrill fear tactics gave us Bush…

This article is complete bs and a disservice to this website.

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By whatisbestinlife, December 19, 2009 at 10:11 am Link to this comment
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The claim of “Thousands of people are likely to die if this health care bill is not signed into law” by forcing people onto private insurance company plans is the height of propaganda.  Along the lines of the rhetoric used by the Bush Administration to scare people into supporting the “war on terror”.  Shameful.

Perhaps worse though, are his claims that people who oppose the mandate (and all the loopholes and price-gouging and age-based rate increases in the bill) somehow lack experience with life’s difficulties and tragedies.  Here Boyarsky not only exhibits the worst type of hateful rhetoric (absolutely baseless in fact), but displays the behaviour all too typical of the DC/beltway/villager/Versailles crowd:

“Those liberals are soooo naive” because we want to, you know, limit our money being spent on health care primarily to ACTUAL HEALTH CARE, not the profit margins of private insurance companies. Because we think it’s immoral (not to mention deadly bad politics) to force citizens into the arms of insurance companies against their will, without also providing a government-based, non-profit alternative.

To top all this off, after making such an inflamatory posting, Boyarsky is no where to be seen in the comments to address the dismantling of his arguments and poor behaviour.

So, cheap, baseless, cynical attacks followed by cowardly behaviour in actual discussion.  Quite the intellectual mind Truthdig has dug up here.

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By the worm, December 19, 2009 at 10:00 am Link to this comment

The 80 / 20 ‘Compromise’: 20 cents of every dollar - that’s 20 cents of every
100 cents - by law (at least by the Senate ‘compromise’) can be retained by
private sector insurers to pay their bonuses, lard their bottom line, expand their
investments, etc. The Senate bill as now written provides that everyone in
America pay for private sector health care, in short, wasting 20 cents of each
health care dollar, piddling it off to middlers who deliver no health care what
so ever, require mind numbing paper work, jerk you around with ‘co-pays’ and
‘contributions’, etc. but do not ever in any shape or form deliver health care
services to you. This is what the Senate has brought us. And here’s an added
insult from the White House to everyone who is not a private sector health
insurance corporate employee: Because both the right and the left think
citizens should not be mandated by their government to provide corporate
welfare for private sector health insurance companies with both taxes (paid to
corporations as ‘subsidies’ to cover the poor who cannot afford to payoff the
corporations) and premiums (20 percent of which are not used to provide
health care services), they have persuaded themselves that independents will
just love it!

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By Thong-girl, December 19, 2009 at 9:57 am Link to this comment

Jane Hamsher, and Firedoglake due to their refusal to get rid of her, have no credibility in my opinion.  She is a bigot and has lashed out against men just because they are men saying things she deems wrong.  I hope that everyone looks very closely at her and asks her to either take back her comments, even if she can’t change her cold-hearted hatred of men.  Please look very closely at her and if you don’t want a similar label, consider voicing your concerns.  She has lost me as a fan.

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By krishnasinghkhalsa, December 19, 2009 at 9:53 am Link to this comment

SUPPORT REP. DEFAZIO TO SUSTAIN REBELLION AGAINST CORPORATE KLEPTOCRACY.

Boyarski is being foolish, not Howard Dean. and not Rep. Peter Defazio of Oregon, either.

Here’s the morning news from FireDogLake:

FYI:
Obama Is ‘Keeping Score’ on Those Who Vote Against Him by Jane Hamsher

A story in the Hill Friday morninglets us know that Obama is very much aware of Pete DeFazio’s votes against his legislation:

  Obama himself has taken notice. “Don’t think we’re not keeping score, brother,” Obama told DeFazio during a closed-door meeting of the House Democratic Caucus, according to members afterward.

That’s pretty powerful. The President of the United States calling you out for disloyalty in front of your peers.
DeFazio is the one floating this story, entiitled “Pelosi, Rahm do not scare Rep. DeFazio.” DeFazio is in a potentially tough (D+2) district in 2010, given the current lack of Democratic enthusiasm for showing up at the polls (which Rahm Emanuel thinks will be fixed by a “win” on health care).

There are three things interesting about the story. One, Obama himself is once again arm-twisting someone NOT named Lieberman, Nelson, Landrieu or Lincoln. Two, DeFazio is already running against his own party in a tough district. And three, he’s not “running to the right” but rather using a populist message to do it:

  His populism has played well back home. DeFazio won his 2008 election with 82 percent of the vote, even though his district isn’t overwhelmingly Democratic. Obama won it by 11 percentage points, but President George W. Bush won nearly as many votes as Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) in 2004.

I wonder how many others will start to see that a bill that mandates paying 8% of your income to private corporations and using the IRS as a collection agency is political suicide?

DeFazio told Mike Stark he would vote against any bill that does not have a strong public plan in July, and signed a letter saying would do so.

So we’ll probably soon see whether DeFazio’s actions match up with the populist rhetoric.

Published on Friday, December 18, 2009 by Firedoglake

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By krishnasinghkhalsa, December 19, 2009 at 9:50 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Support DeFazio to
Boyarski is being foolish, not Howard Dean. and not Rep. Peter Defazio of Oregon, either.

Here’s the morning news from FireDogLake:

FYI:
Obama Is ‘Keeping Score’ on Those Who Vote Against Him by Jane Hamsher

A story in the Hill Friday morninglets us know that Obama is very much aware of Pete DeFazio’s votes against his legislation:

  Obama himself has taken notice. “Don’t think we’re not keeping score, brother,” Obama told DeFazio during a closed-door meeting of the House Democratic Caucus, according to members afterward.

That’s pretty powerful. The President of the United States calling you out for disloyalty in front of your peers.
DeFazio is the one floating this story, entiitled “Pelosi, Rahm do not scare Rep. DeFazio.” DeFazio is in a potentially tough (D+2) district in 2010, given the current lack of Democratic enthusiasm for showing up at the polls (which Rahm Emanuel thinks will be fixed by a “win” on health care).

There are three things interesting about the story. One, Obama himself is once again arm-twisting someone NOT named Lieberman, Nelson, Landrieu or Lincoln. Two, DeFazio is already running against his own party in a tough district. And three, he’s not “running to the right” but rather using a populist message to do it:

  His populism has played well back home. DeFazio won his 2008 election with 82 percent of the vote, even though his district isn’t overwhelmingly Democratic. Obama won it by 11 percentage points, but President George W. Bush won nearly as many votes as Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) in 2004.

I wonder how many others will start to see that a bill that mandates paying 8% of your income to private corporations and using the IRS as a collection agency is political suicide?

DeFazio told Mike Stark he would vote against any bill that does not have a strong public plan in July, and signed a letter saying would do so.

So we’ll probably soon see whether DeFazio’s actions match up with the populist rhetoric.

Published on Friday, December 18, 2009 by Firedoglake

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By Chris Ostrom, December 19, 2009 at 9:46 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This bill is an unprecedented mandated giveaway of public money to a for-profit corporation.

Un-precedented. Is this bill better than doing nothing?  NO

  Should we go ahead and pass it, then fix it later? UH, HELL NO!

  That was what Obama said about the FISA bill. Anyone remember how THAT one turned out?

Signed,  One progressive not falling for the BS any more.

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By FiftyGigs, December 19, 2009 at 9:13 am Link to this comment

“Those who’ve chosen to take a stand against health reform are willing to let people die because the current bill isn’t exactly what they want.”

That’s Joe Lieberman you’re talking about. He’s willing to let the people he represents die because he doesn’t happen to like the people who support HIS IDEA!

Those of us who are taking a stand against government-mandated, cradle-to-grave private insurance patronage are echoing the time-honored principles of our founding fathers: give me liberty…

I’ll be sending regular contributions to any person or organization working to excise the Lieberman disease from our system. I hope other readers of this site will too. Even a few bucks will make a difference.

And by the way, I think we should work to eliminate federal pensions and insurance benefits for retired Senators. They can pay their own freakin’ way.

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By Thong-girl, December 19, 2009 at 8:47 am Link to this comment

Trust, the only real necessity in winning over the public, is nonexistent with this administration and Congress.  Howard Dean, on the other, is a man I trust and I expect others do as well.  That may be his biggest downfall:  other Congressional types are scared that he is trustworthy, not for sale.  I remember that famous yell he let out, and I remember seeing it happen live.  Anyone who did, knew his political career was over, but never learned why he did it.  I suspect now, he simply had been driven mad for a minute by the obvious lies and by the fact that most people are willing to accept the dribble that comes out and serves trustworthiness today. 

We have all witnessed what happened to the right, the talkies, Faux news, etc.  We are now seeing the Dems, I can’t refer to them as the “left,” follow in lockstep.  The options that exist for us are few:  either accept a nihilist view that we are so badly broken, we would have to dismantle all of Washington and start from scratch, or form another party and be really careful whom we allow to join and represent us.  If there is anyone on this planet who thinks what we have can be turned around with the likes of our elected officials now in power, please share your dope with me.

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By leftover, December 19, 2009 at 8:30 am Link to this comment
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I’m 55, unemployed and disabled, facing health issues that are going to get me a
spot on the next Harvard study.
As someone who would most likely receive immediate benefit from passage of
this health insurance legislation, I say Kill It.
It’s totally regressive. A bait-and-switch con. It has been since the beginning.
Kill the Bill. Kill them both and start over from scratch.
Some people say something is better than nothing. This isn’t something that can
be fixed quickly or efficiently as the author would have us believe. It’s bad
legislation. Bad for everybody.
It needs to be scrapped completely.

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By MarthaA, December 19, 2009 at 8:13 am Link to this comment

We the populace must not allow health care to be mandated like auto insurance where the average populace citizen can’t afford anything other than liability for the other person to avoid being a felon and be able to drive to work; and are mandated to pay for insurance without receiving any benefit from insurance, should an accident occur.  Many people of the populace are surprised when the insurance they paid for and thought they could count on will not replace the value of their car when their car get totaled in an accident, and it doesn’t take much of an accident to total a car anymore. Mandated health insurance will be exactly the same for the populace—no health care.

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By Thong-girl, December 19, 2009 at 8:10 am Link to this comment

Jefferson Smith ought to consider a career in writing or blogging as his prose contradicts what most think of when they consider a “construction worker’s” talents.  Jeff, you’re not old, but construction takes many of us too young.

I’m curious why anyone registers as a Democrat any longer and I wonder if that isn’t our biggest opportunity yet to signal DC that we are not happy with the way things are going.  I also resent, as a registered Independent, that many feel we are simply closet Dems.  While I’ve never voted for a Republican, I have voted third party and will continue to do so.  If disenchanted Dems followed suit, you would realize, for the first time in decades, that you do have some levers to pull, and this is the precise time to do so.  Don’t wait and try to blame a Nadar when November comes around again and Obama and his lackies fall to the absurd notion that is the Republican.

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By Jim Yell, December 19, 2009 at 8:00 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The bill as I understand it requires very little from the insurance companies,while giving them a captive client group. Nothing is done to address the impossible gouging by healthcare companies, insurance and pharma industry.

The fact is the insurance premiums are too expensive and forcing people to buy for-profit policy will not see to health care. The fact is the impoverishment caused by the cost of insurance, insurance that doesn’t pay the entire cost of illness will leave just as many people unable to seek health care as is currently the case.

It isn’t a healthcare bill to provide health care. It is a bill to preserve the bastards who have made it impossible to find affordable care. I hope it doesn’t pass.

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By JeffersonSmith, December 19, 2009 at 7:49 am Link to this comment

I am 54 years old, cannot walk without pain because of suffering a severely broken knee 2 years ago, and I have not been able to work in construction since my accident.  I don’t support this health care bill and as far as I can tell, in its present form, although it seems to change from day to day, this “healthcare reform” would not significantly help me.  It would make me poorer and give me little recourse for my particular health requirements and would mandate my purchasing private health insurance I cannot afford. 

As I am over 50, injured and currently under-employed, I guess Bill Boyarsky thinks he speaks for me, he doesn’t and neither do any of the other arrogant apparatchiks trying to stuff this badly flawed bill on health care down my throat.  Until there is a significant public option, with significant federal subsidies and cost controls, I will vocally and vigorously oppose this bill.

I have been a registered Democrat since I could vote and worked in campaigns as a volunteer before I could vote. That being said, I am not willing to agree with any bill just because I am a Democrat. I expect my representatives and President to put the Peoples’ needs before their political careers. Obama promised a public option and significant cost control in this bill, he has not provided the strategy or leadership to get either one. Insulting and scaring me won’t make me support this flawed bill, threatening to lose the next election won’t either, really address the needs of the American people and I will support the bill.

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By davide, December 19, 2009 at 7:47 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Starting to feel the anger Mr. Boyarsky?  Is is possible that Obama and the Dems might have used that anger to get a much better bill?  Why didn’t they?  Because they are in the pockets of the industry?  Because they want to hold the people hostage to enrich their corporate pals, using arguments like “even more will die if we don’t pass this bill”?

Obama and the Dems could have brought the teabagging nonsense to a screeching halt, could have cowed the Senate utterly, and could have had a bill with a medicare buy-in and a public option merely by announcing a public rally for such a bill in September - October, appealing to everyone who supported the bill to show up (remember the numbers at the inauguration), and promising a fire breathing speech from the President himself.  The mere presence of 1+ million people rallying around the capital and chanting slogans in unison would have caused the tongues of “moderates” like Lieberman and Nelson to shrivel, their ears to bleed, and their bowels to permanently loosen.  The fact that Obama and the Dems made no such effort is, in my view, proof positive that they are nothing but a bunch of glib corporate shills.

And you Mr. Boyarsky?

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By Thomas Dooley, December 19, 2009 at 7:44 am Link to this comment

You guys should take it easy on Bill Boyarsky. At one time he was a sharp political commentator. He just got old, that’s all. It happens to us all. He is a really old guy and this is the best he can do. He thinks rather simply. You say there is a problem with millions without health insurance? No problem at all. Just pass a law making it unlawful not to buy health insurance. Problem solved! Easy-peasy!

Make no mistake about it. The core, the absolute centerpiece, of this bill is the mandate that citizens must purchase health insurances “products.” Everything else is either window dressing or a scrap or tidbit offered in order to get the core of the bill, the mandate, accepted and passed onto law.

It appears the years have taken their toll on Bill Boyarsky and he has been reduced to scooping the wet change left behind at the bar by corporate big shots and he recommends we do the same. Too bad but, well, what can you do? We all get old.

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By Brian, December 19, 2009 at 7:38 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

We’re supposed to be creating health insurance reform, not deform, Mr. Boyarsky.

Your proposal makes the system more expensive, more bureaucratic with less choice.

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By rudyspeaks, December 19, 2009 at 7:37 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It’s gratifying to see the outpouring of disbelief and (deserved) rancor at this
train-wreck of an article. It’s nonsense. I’m exactly who this bill is supposed to
help and it won’t help me at all. Nearly 60 yrs old, very low income, simply no
money to pay for any insur. plan or fine. So I’ll be subsidized by YOU, the
taxpayer and get a plan with such high deductibles and co-pays that I won’t be
able to use it. Catastrophic illness? The plan’s “cap” will prevent adequate
treatment and I’ll be either abandoned or right back on the taxpayer’s dime, all of
YOUR monthly payments to a private insurer now simply corporate profit. The Bill
is so BAD that it’s hard to imagine how 1) It could be written & seriously
considered, 2) Defended by anyone getting oxygenated blood to their frontal
lobe, or 3) Posted on Truthdig.

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By Liquor Store Larry, December 19, 2009 at 7:05 am Link to this comment

Saying that “if we don’t pass health care now, it will be a generation before we get another opportunity” is as stupid as when George Bush said “we are fighting them there so we don’t have to fight them here”. Hillary Clinton had the chutzpa to stand up 16 years ago and demand REAL UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE and here, 16 years later Obama, this pip squeak of a man is muttering about this watered down BS and is prepared to make a human sacrifice of his own party ostensibly on the ridiculous and disingenuous premise that it does not close future doors.

Whether Howard Dean was being to any degree rhetorical in telling Democrats to vote against health care or not, it is inconceivable to me that anyone with a progressive bone in their body is so naive as to think that delivering the entire population of the USA to the same insurance companies that created the mess we are in like fatted cattle is a good idea.

What exactly do you think is left of this health care bill sir? I felt like a sucker for even having voted for Obama but absent the right to buy prescription drugs from Canada, a public option, Medicare for 55 and over, any group negotiating power for Medicare, etc, what exactly do you think you would be losing besides another tax?

Obama was a fool not to demonstrate leadership and leave the details to the very folks who are are on the payroll of those who don’t want anything substantive in this bill in the first place. The Democratic congress will receive a big douche in 2010 and Obama is dead meat in 2012 and both deserve it. In reading the comments on this web site it is incomprehensible that there are still enough people that take the Democratic Party seriously and think they have a future that is worth saving to fill the fingers of my left hand. These are perfect idiots and that fact that Democrats are not Republicans is simply not enough. You are circling the drain and you think you are at a swimming party!

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By the worm, December 19, 2009 at 6:30 am Link to this comment

The kind of ‘death’ the author refers to is caused by the current legal and
regulatory web. The purpose of health care reform is create a legal
environment is which health care is provided to all. Such systems have been
created in developed nations worldwide. America’s elected officials are held
hostage to the corporate world that to is set to gain enormous profits by
holding you and other Americans hostage, with this bill saying, essentially,
“Yes. If you pay us enough, you can have health care; if our profits do not
inflate and our ‘mandated’ customer based does not expand, then, “No, you
may not have health care and we will instruct your Senators and Congressmen
to vote accordingly.” That is why, we oppose this bill, because other systems
are available (see rest of the globe) in which health care is available for
reasonable costs without the larded and value-non-added private for-profit
health care industry. If you want to see people denied health care, look at the
current system; the bill is simply the current system with customers under
bondage. No, the argument of the private for-profit health insurance industry
is simply the industry thinking it can hold the nation hostage. I dont believe
that bondage is required. I still - foolishly perhaps - believe the government
can provide for the common welfare. This bill does not,

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By stevewarren, December 19, 2009 at 6:23 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

the baucus bill was written by his assistant, remember.  the one who was formerly a big cheeze lobby person for the insurance biz. keep that top of mind.

a bill that mandates citizens pay private companies for insurance is the absolute worst thing the democratic party can do.  talk about a flame-out…

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By montanawildhack, December 19, 2009 at 6:01 am Link to this comment

Health Care for ALL…. Not Health Insurance for some….

Anything less than this is total Bullshit!!!!

America is an EVIL Empire that could give two shits about “the people that live and die and pay taxes in this town.”*  They’re forcing us to live in Pottersville!!!!  Well f&%k them and f%$k Mr. Potter.

*Credit to George Bailey…..

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By GeorgeM, December 19, 2009 at 5:59 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Further thought—we need a revolution….maybe we need to have a nationwide boycott on paying premiums?

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By dogdiva, December 19, 2009 at 5:49 am Link to this comment

I’m a 60 year old who’s been living without much medical care despite the expensive high risk, $7500 deductible I have tried to maintain.  I’ve recently found out that even at $600 a month, it is subsidized by the state.  The real cost has been about $1000 a month for $7500.  I can save $50 a month now if I go for $10,000.  If I had ample income and considering my age, I might be glad to have the “access”.  I just don’t consider that ‘health care’.  It’s extortion.

I’m very concerned that with all the emphasis on “availability” and “access” this is what they are offering.  When every pol in the Democratic party is on saying “30 million people covered” is this what they are talking about?  I’ve put so much into maintaining insurance that I haven’t been able to pay for health care.  I’ve put so much of my future income into maintaining insurance that I haven’t got a future.  I’m financially ruined like millions of others and I HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE.  (notice we don’t speak of the ‘underinsured’ anymore?)

Who knows what is in this bill right now.  How and who gets all these subsides to buy insurance?  Anyone know?  Are they offering people who can’t pay for an office call $400 a month to pay for $800 insurance?  A 50 ft lifeline for someone 100 ft from shore?  I don’t know, and apparently we aren’t going to get the details soon…we’re just supposed to believe that “30 million get health care” (and it’s not just that they mandated 30 million to get it)

I’m personally too far down the road to actually get the help they are proposing.  Even if I qualified, $400 a month for a $5000 deductible won’t really help.  I don’t know a lot of uninsured people who would welcome a deductible cap of $5000.

NONETHELESS…at this point I think the system and the Congress and the nation is so broken, I don’t think those who want to ‘start over’ have any assurances there would be another bill, let alone a better one.  We’re BROKEN.  We can no longer create solutions to our problems.  I don’t believe we can remodel this house built on quick sand.  Let the rickety thing stand for whomever it might help and get started immediately on the work to change the whole sick dynamic before we are so far gone change won’t be possible.

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By Tim Kelly, December 19, 2009 at 5:30 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

A bad solution is worse than no solution.  A bad solution is rationalized until accepted.  With no solution, we keep looking.

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By jim crawford, December 19, 2009 at 5:22 am Link to this comment

And Boyarsky’s solution to getting these bonehead “centrists” back to the public option or to Medicare for all is ... ?  Or is Dean trying to stir up the pot in order to get Obama and the WH off of their derrieres?

  Frankly, Obama probably did not have enough Senate experience to realize how slimy people like Lieberman and almost the entirety of the Republicon Party can be. LBJ would months ago have been telling the recalcitrants in no uncertain terms that if they wanted any money for their next election campaigns, or for their next earmark, they had better start towing the line, the way the Republicons are doing at the moment with all of their toadies.  Any group that has a McCain as its best in show is in real trouble anyway.  [They don’t call him “Five Plane McCain” for nothing. ]

  It’s up to the rest of us to get the Liebermans, the Nelsons, and Republicons in each state out of the Senate and to get decent candidates in.  People like Bohner [a deliberate sic], McConnell, Kyle, Cantor, Shelby, Coburn, Inhof, Bachman, Alexander, and other such factually challenged addlepates are a disgrace to the race to begin with and should probably be kept in cages. As Sen. Karl Mundt reportedly said many years ago,”Dumb people deserve representation too,” a principle with which I agree, but they shouldn’t be holding the rest of us hostage. 

  Let us hope that the words and actions of Dr Dean, Move On, and others will bring the WH and POTUS to their senses and force a decent bill out of the House Senate conference.  If that happens, it will probably take more nerve than Lieberman has to vote against a decent House/Senate health bill.  If the progressives hold firm, the citizenry may yet win this.

  Damn their eyes anyway, and a plague on all their houses.

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By anonymous, December 19, 2009 at 5:15 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

what election?

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By knobcreekfarmer, December 19, 2009 at 5:13 am Link to this comment

I’m with thebeerdoctor. I thought I was reading The Washington Post - not Truth
Dig. If I want that kind of “better than nothing” garbage I’ll go to the MSM.

Making/Forcing/Mandating that Americans buy something from a private for
profit company is unconstitutional, immoral and shows that our government is
owned not by the people but by the corporations.

what a fucked up system we are subject to…

Medicare for all -

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By Jaded Prole, December 19, 2009 at 5:03 am Link to this comment

“The liberals attacking the Senate health reform bill must never have known real illness. They’ve never been fired at the age of 50 and left without health insurance. They’ve probably never known anyone who died for lack of health insurance.”

I am a 55 years old unemployed and uninsured and yes, I’ve known illness and seen needless death. There is nothing in the present bill that will change any of that. Supporting it just to claim a hollow victory would not be in anyone’s interests but that of a President who went out of his way do do nothing and blocked any real reform. We don’t need a Hollywood sham and we don’t need to be “mandated” to buy insurance. That is a rich man’s idiotic solution. We need universal guaranteed medical access. The present legislation is an insult to all but the insurance industry.

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By ardee, December 19, 2009 at 4:10 am Link to this comment

Spare me their attacks on President Barack Obama, who doesn’t measure up to their impossible standards.

Spare me this paean to blind party loyalty and attack upon the very folks who are most in favor of real health care reform. Boyarsky needs a clue, his support is for a boondoggle of a bill that deals more with guaranteed profits than real reform.

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By DaveZx3, December 19, 2009 at 3:21 am Link to this comment

While I am on this band wagon: 

Thousands of lives could be saved if the bureaucracies would just admit to the powerful disease fighting capabilities of simple things like Oil of Oregano or Hydrogen Peroxide, among thousands of others. 

I have found authentic Oil of Oregano to be the most powerful antibacterial, antiviral and antifungal agent in existence.  It can be taken for pennies a day, and will kill almost everything in you, so be prepared to relieve your intestinal tract with a good probiotic after treatment.  No other side effects.  I have used it as my flu vaccine for years, and have not had the flu since. 

Even more potent is hydrogen peroxide.  (H2O2)  That extra Oxygen atom means death to any viral, bacterial or fungal infections in the body.  These infections thrive in an oxygen poor environment, but when H2O2 is administered, that extra O attaches to the diseased cells and zaps them dead.  Google this stuff, and look for someone competent in Hydrogen Peroxide therapy, if everything else has fails.
Hydrogen Peroxide in its simplest form is only 67cents per bottle.  Ingesting orally must be highly controlled, or it can be deadly.  Ingest only food-grade (35%) and at the advice of a professional, who may or may not be an MD.  Best therapy is intravenous.

Don’t always assume that alternative therapies are not valid just because they are not endorsed by Big Med, Big Pharma, and Big insurance.  The Big guys cannot make any money on something that costs 67cents a bottle and cannot be patented, so it would not be strange that they don’t tell you about it.

Look for yourself.  With the internet, it is now much easier to get feedback from real people on what works.  Don’t take anyones word for anything, but understand that when all else fails, there are still legitimate remedies out there, and even the uninsured can get major health benefits and remedies for much less than the cost of an inflated insurance policy.  Here again, with the adivce of a pro. 

GOOD HEALTH IS NOT A PRODUCT OF INSURANCE, BUT A PRODUCT OF GOOD DIET, EXERCISE AND MOSTLY INEXPENSIVE REMEDIES WHEN HEALTH FAILS. 

When you get trapped in the Insurance/medical/pharmaceutical complex, I think it is not outrageous to say that death is almost as common because of it, as it is as a lack of it.  And you can Google some good results on that also if you don’t believe me.

In Good Health.

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By Just Cause, December 19, 2009 at 3:06 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Boyarsky is a columnist for the Jewish Journal and blogs for LA Observed.

Bill is a Joe Lieberman kinda guy.

enough said.

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By DaveZx3, December 19, 2009 at 2:40 am Link to this comment

“Thousands of people are likely to die if this health care bill is not signed into law”

These types of scare tactics are becoming nauseating, both from the left and from the right.

If the problem is really that people are dying in droves, then just tell the hospitals and doctors to let them have treatment, and send the bills to congress for payment until they can get this reform stuff straightened out.

I mean there is no reason for someone to die for lack of legislation.  That is ABSURD.  Really, the hospitals let most of them in anyway, at least in our areas.  They just increase the billings of others to compensate. 

I could show the legislature how to pass a one page bill that would say “no one can be denied medical care when showing up at the hospital”  PERIOD.  It would take 2 minutes to type it up and a few minutes to vote on it.  There, that takes care of people who are dying.  Now we have some time to figure out how to pay for it. 

No matter what legislation is passed, somebody has to pay the bill at some point.  Every community could institute an interim hospital tax to pay for those with no means.  I mean there are thousands of ways to help pay for the needy.

Just do it.  But don’t tell me people are dying for lack of legislation.  That is B…T. 

For crying out loud, just print some more money if you are that desperate.  You print it for everything else under the sun anyway. 

How did our government get so incompetent?????

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By C.Curtis.Dillon, December 19, 2009 at 1:41 am Link to this comment

You guys have done an excellent job commenting on this article passed off as journalism so I will address one glaring problem with the arguments for passing this worthless piece of crap ... the idea that it will be revisited again and improved.  This debate has been raging for over 75 years and we have gotten a few nice crumbs (Medicare and support for children) but the real solution, single payer, is nowhere in sight.  If we pass this crap, both parties will point to it for years as “progress” and avoid revisiting for at least 20 years.  Then there will be a few more tweaks but nothing of substance.  Passing this bill is the excuse both parties will use to avoid revisiting the problem ... they will just point to it and say that reform was already done and nothing more is needed.

We need to demand that this worthless bill be thrown our and real reform passed.  If it is rejected, we can and must demand that congress return, over and over, to finding a solution until we get some real reform.  Anything less is a sellout to the insurance industry.

And, honestly, we need total reform ... get all the profit seekers out of health care.  That includes greedy doctors and lawyers, greedy hospital chains, drug companies and their obscene pricing ... the list is endless.  Make health care a non-profit system like our enlightened brethren in Europe and Asia have.  That would be true reform.

As for Howard Dean, a truly good guy.  Dems are afraid that people will listen to him and realize just how worthless that party is.  Howard ... let’s start a new party and drive these bastards out of government.  I want you to be the chairman of the progressive party.  What do you say?

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By openlyliberal, December 19, 2009 at 1:36 am Link to this comment

I can’t believe what I’m reading here on TruthDig. Boyarsky, you are buying the steaming turd that the White House has polished to try to make it look like healthcare reform.  I AM a person without health care.  This bill will NOT get me covered.  It will make me a criminal because, even though I work two jobs, I can’t afford to send my kids to college AND pay for health care.  This crap that the White House and moderate republicans—and now the press—are parroting, that 30 million will be insured under this plan, is absolute lunacy.  This number only comes from the fact that these 30 million will be mandated to buy health insurance from the bloodsucking companies who have gotten us into this mess.

This bill is nothing but a giant kiss on the flabby white ass cheeks of big health insurance and big pharma (nice job in killing re-importation, morons).  No public option?  No f*cking mandate.  Plain and simple.

Your attack on Howard Dean is shameful and disgusting.  He speaks for me.

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By KDelphi, December 19, 2009 at 1:02 am Link to this comment

You must be stupid or something, if you think this turkey will “save lives”. Have you even looked at the size of the “subsidies”? Do you even kn ow the price of a private plan on the marketplac e(or the “exchange”?) Have you ever been told that you needed a treatment to survive, but didnt have the money? If Dean is so stupid, how did they achieve such high levels of coverage in Vermont….you guys not only blow a historic opportunity, you insult those that try to tell you to stop.

Those of us who have been hurt the most by the current system are TRYING to fight to see that more people dont DIE as a result of corporate health care!

You Dems had better watch criticizing Dean so harshly—he’
s alot more popular than Obama the sell-out right now!

BTW—my father died from insurance delays, and, I am waiting months for a necessary surgery that may kill me..I had many clients on medicaid die from a lack of proper care. Shame on you, Bill.

If I were a neo-liberal upper middle class “journalist”,I might think this bill was ‘ok”...Dems are going to lose and lose and lose.

At least I wont have to worry that voting for a Dem might have made things better anymore. Anyone who can hold such illusions now is either crazy or just off the private jet.

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By amex, December 19, 2009 at 12:29 am Link to this comment

Mr. Boyarsky, are you fucking kidding me?

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By P. T., December 19, 2009 at 12:04 am Link to this comment

The liberals backing what is being passed off as health care “reform” have never gone hungry.  Nearly 50 million Americans struggled to get enough nutritious food last year.  Now people may be forced to turn money they need for food over to health insurance companies for overpriced coverage.  The requirement for food should have a higher priority than insurance company profits.

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By Dr. Frankie, December 18, 2009 at 11:54 pm Link to this comment

Anyone who gets closer to Mr. Boyarsky can hear the ocean.

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By mef, December 18, 2009 at 11:53 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Great responses.
But, where do we REALLY go from here???
“...Talkin’ ‘bout a revolution.”

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By Malachi Constant, December 18, 2009 at 11:04 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What is an article like this doing on Truthdig?  I would expect to see something like it on CNN.

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By Scotty_Mack, December 18, 2009 at 11:01 pm Link to this comment

Wow.  This is the equivalent of ‘don’t let the smoking gun be a mushroom cloud’ propaganda. Health Insurance is not health care. The Urban Institute says we should all be forced to give money to private criminal entities who make profit off human suffering and that will fix everything, huh?  This is the same Urban Institute which is partnered with, and dominated by, the Brookings Institution, a think tank which has been the driving force for free trade and radical deregulation for the past twenty years.  The President of the Urban Institute was a senior fellow of economic studies at the Brookings Institution.  Their board of trustees is chuck-full of other Brookings bigwigs, not to mention other scallywags like a former head of the Council on Foriegn Relations, a former director of the CIA, the Chairman of the Board of Berkshire Hathaway Inc (Insurance), the CEO of GEICO (Insurance), and the Chariman of Johnson & Johnson (Major Medical Supply manufacturer).  So next time Bill, before you quote a report, make sure it isn’t written by the insurance companies and those who love them?  It just takes a few minutes of online research.  But that might approach something dangerously close to journalism…

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CJ's avatar

By CJ, December 18, 2009 at 11:00 pm Link to this comment

Those who—contra Dean—would have the monstrous bill passed remind me of, “In order to save the village it was necessary to destroy the village.”

All proponents drag out the claim that under the proposed bill at least all would be covered, and that any who opposes the stinking bill is inhuman. First, it’s not even been established that all would be covered.

But perhaps those who can fairly readily afford actually adequate health insurance have never met those who have to pay through the nose for inadequate HMO con.

But the lower-income will be subsidized proponents retort. Maybe, if low income enough. (Marcus is wrong elsewhere here, apparently having forgotten Tommy Thompson, not to mention Ronnie Reagan. Indeed, “History does teach us…”) Around these parts, absurd idea of poverty level is 20 grand or less per annum for family of four. Seriously, folks.

Under proposed economic disaster, insurers would earn even greater profits at the expense of both sick and non-sick alike. 

It was Olbermann who got to the one of the main points last night. The plan, as it stands, is to further tax the already busted, not to supply government-run healthcare but to hand over mandated tax to private racketeers, who just are now taking up residence in seventh, or is it 100th?, heaven. Any who believes their whining isn’t for the sake of appearances has yet to be born in the USA.

If one can’t pay, a fine will be levied. If one can’t pay that, then presumably garnishment IRS-style, if, that is, one is able to hold a job for more than two weeks. If nothing to garnish then off to debtor’s prison where to slave for a dollar a day like all prisoners are currently made to do—conveniently enough. Or whereat attempt to extract blood from wage-slave. No doubt a doctor will be present in the event of any excess.

Truly “dumb,” Mr. Boyarsky, is this ongoing charade termed “sausage-making” by those in the know. The President all hands-on concerning Afghanistan, all hands-off concerning so-called “healthcare reform.” How “reformed,” one might ask? Well, I’ll tell you how: into opportunity for business expansion, perhaps eventually into Iraq and Afghanistan.

How ridiculous we and especially our representatives in government have become, absolutely incapable of the slightest, simplest modification in the ACTUAL interest of all if/when it might impact the investor class. Hell, in the interest of seeing to what are human rights. If, that is, we constitute any kinda humanity at all and not Orwell’s Animal Farm, which seems to be the prevailing model.
Enough already with the regressive taxation! Most especially when spent more on wining and dining than promises, promises to deliver goods. Enough with destruction in the claimed interest of salvation. Enough with pols performing balancing act for pay-offs: Doing nothing (in the interest of careerism) while appearing to do something (in the interest of vote-getting).

But alright, let us all stand to cheer for continuing—even by dimwitted free-market accounting—to spend 17% of GDP when we could be spending 7% of GDP at the same time as providing for the uninsured of whom I was one myself not long ago. Don’t tell it to me, Mr. Boyarsky. Woman I knew well died last year sans health insurance. She had Medicaid, which ought be expanded for the time being.

Howard Dean is about the only one making any damn sense at all, while the rest make excuses. At the same time as recommending salvaging whatever is worthwhile in a far smaller bill, and then getting serious later. But he assumes there will ever be a later. Maybe, once we cease voting for the bought-off in favor of the principled. I’m not holding my breath re that, and also ain’t about to hand over decades of meager hard-earned savings necessary to this life in this here already half a joint on the way to debtors’ joint.

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By markpkessinger, December 18, 2009 at 10:47 pm Link to this comment

First of all, neither Howard Dean nor liberals as a group are trying to “block health care reform.”  What we are saying is to vote the bill down IN ITS CURRENT FORM (i.e., with an individual mandate, but without the kind of cost-containing measures (such as premium limits, and either a real public option or Medicare buy-in).  Get rid of the individual mandates, put in some reasonable checks on the insurance industry, and I think you’ll find most liberals more than happy to support the bill.

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G.Anderson's avatar

By G.Anderson, December 18, 2009 at 10:25 pm Link to this comment

This bill is proof positive the United States Senate is a wholly owned subsidiary of the health insurance companies.

And if you needed any more proof their stocks are on fire.

It’s a big payday, just like the one Obama gave the banks, with the government and tax payer on the hook for their revenue streams.

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By AC, December 18, 2009 at 10:24 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Bill’s accusation that liberals “are willing to let people die because the current bill isn’t exactly what they want” reminds me of the Iraq invasion.  Anyone who questioned Bush’s policy was immediately accused of supporting torture.  This was, of course, ridiculous, but it worked very well as a conversation stopper.  And that was the point.

If this administration is so concerned about saving lives, why was single-payer insurance never seriously discussed?  Why did Obama refuse to negoiate down the cost of health care and perscriptions?  Why did Obama so readily abandon the public option by stating early in the process that it wasn’t really necessary.  If this reform is so crucial, why do we have have to wait for years for it to implimented?  How many people will die during that time?

The Democrats could pass a good healthcare reform bill with 51 votes.  Why are they so frightened of a Republican filibuster?  If a filibuster is such a deal breaker, why didn’t the Democrats employ it during the Bush years?

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By DonkeyHotey, December 18, 2009 at 10:23 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Boyarsky, you sound like you don’t think this bill
can get any worse. The corporate vampire toadies are
feeding on this legislation trying to suck every last
drop of benefit from the bill and pump it full of
pork pus to expand profits and bonuses.

Sure, lets just sit back and be quite while plan is
totally dismembered.

Insurance for my wife and I just went from 1000/mo to
1200/mo. We pay that ourselves. I don’t see this plan
lowering our cost or reducing the trajectory of
increases.

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By tahitifp, December 18, 2009 at 10:23 pm Link to this comment

“We didn’t elect democrats to pass crap.”
Howard Dean

Go, Howard!!

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By glider, December 18, 2009 at 10:19 pm Link to this comment

This “Bill” (pun intended) will kill millions in the long haul over the legislation Howard Dean and the Progressives favor.  The corporate bribes that have destroyed the Healthcare “reform” should be illegal and the people do not have to rollover and take it up the ass from these lobbysters.  This is our “just war” worth fighting.

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By Rolf Cox, December 18, 2009 at 10:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Consider this:  Not much longer than it takes to tell,  the United States will be buried, short of ceremonial honors and, hopefully, with no false
tears or expressions of remorse from the political and financial classses peopling the treachery
that killed this most promising Republic.  This Great Experiment has been brought to its end because
it was no longer an experiment; it became the
Whore of Wall Street, the Fed, the Congress and the White House.
Foul treachery; Treachery most foul.  Dueling laws should not have been passed, and Tar and
Feathering, and Rail Riding should still be in vogue.

In the end, give the old girl the flat of your
hat on your chest and a nod of your head as the cassion passes.  At the very least, she deserves that much. and God knows she’s been good to me.

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By drum4one4all, December 18, 2009 at 9:54 pm Link to this comment

I won’t have to worry about reading any more articles from Bill Boyarsky.  Wow.  Is he clueless of the detriment this “make us sicker and pay more” bill will cause?  Stunning the lack of rationale thought or actual examination of why Dean is opposing it.  Dang, I just started reading truthdig…is this really what this place is all about?  Slamming Dean for telling the truth about this crappy legislation?

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By thebeerdoctor, December 18, 2009 at 9:53 pm Link to this comment

Bill Boyarsky is simply peddling the better than nothing neoliberal garbage, which, when you come to think of it, is why this country is so fouled up. For him to use the cheap tactic of claiming that those opposed to this health insurance industry bonanza must not know anything about personal medical disaster… is so far beyond insulting. Others on this thread have rightly responded to this idiocy. What an equivocating piece of nothing this article is.

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By Sadiku, December 18, 2009 at 9:45 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Yes, this story is anything but objective.  I agree with the other commentators.  You lack integrity for not being objective comparing both sides of the issue.  Heathcare must be totally reformed and not piecemeal reform.  That is the only healthcare reform that will begin to heal this country. Nothing else will do.

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By oreobama, December 18, 2009 at 9:44 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

obama lied and scammed us on every single issue…
the democraps (some exceptions Kiccinich, few others) have betrayed us.

we don’t want this junk.  We need health care now, but this will put us (I mean my family) in the poor house, this is a welfare for insurance scamsters bill… it’ll do nothing for those needing care.

after their bailout for his banksters

and his wars based on lies just like bush…


enough of all this crap,

I’m never voting democrap again unless it’s Dean or Kucinich.

Total flop in Copenhagen…

why?

because industry wnated to “trade” their pollution derivatives (another wall creep scam) at the expense of third world… and oreobama obliged…

obama is a sheister.

basta!

be gone with the lyin’ neocon trojan scum.

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By pundaint, December 18, 2009 at 9:40 pm Link to this comment

40 Republicans 1 Democrat an Independent and a President have gotten
together to make this bill a piece of garbage.  It doesn’t even take effect
until the next administration.  And Dean is the stupid one?

Not as stupid as anyone who buys this crock!

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By Filler Crowley, December 18, 2009 at 9:24 pm Link to this comment

My mother had breast cancer, and I’ve lost two friends to the whims of insurance companies.

Don’t you DARE say I don’t know what’s at stake here you piece of shit.

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By lichen, December 18, 2009 at 9:19 pm Link to this comment

This bill will not give us all gauranteed, single-payer healthcare, it won’t even have a ‘robust’ public option, or a public option at all; it does nothing, it will not help me.  And yes, the president of the richest, most powerful country in the world, the head of the US military, is responsible for his actions.  As is the senate.

Those of us in the single-payer movement have always been against exclusionary, for-profit, corporate-controlled health care, which is what this bill presents.  I want to be able to go see any dentist I want and not have to worry about expenses when there is something wrong with my teeth, instead of spending five days anxiously hoping the pain goes away by itself. I want justice, not piecemeal corporate sludge. I won’t support a bill that won’t do a damn thing for the american people, but just help the democrat propaganda machine.

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