SuperMike1661,

What’s your obsession with the PRC? 

How American Free Workers can compete with slaves in the PRC: by freeing
ourselves from the chains that bind us—- by not shopping at Walmart.  We
don’t need external price controls.  What we need is a little backbone so we can
stand up and get the beast off our back. 

Manufacturing WAS a significant element of the economy UNTIL about 30 years
ago when corporations began to invest overseas, unions were busted, NAFTA
created, etc.  Of course manufacturing still could be a vital part of the economy
if people would actually pay attention to what they were buying, where it came
from, etc.  and say ‘hey do i want to support slavery or rich kleptocrats?’

Why do they cover up the largest crime in the history of the world you say? 
Like what when the Europeans sailed to the Americas? 

Thanks for your time.

rico

I think you know that I care for you.

Please follow my ongoing discussion of precisely how Monolithic Corporate Robots will FINISH Subjecting the free peoples of the West. And how these robots will fuse with their cousins in the PRC to subjugate the ENTIRE WORLD.

I believe that you and your Populist Friends on the Right will join with us when the huge threat of these monsters is made plainer.

jonathonk

ok, good.

You state that we can control our economy better by limiting the Demand Side, i.e. cutting consumption. I guess this is what you mean.  There are proven ways to do this. Price Controls are one way. 

But how does your suggestion provide a competitive environment for Free Workers in the West?  Or do you not address the hugely rapid shift of, now, advanced manufacturing industries like “architectural glass” to the PRC.

If you have strong ideas about HOW American Free Workers can compete with Slaves in the PRC, we need this knowledge.

Most importantly, how do you address the movement by US Corporations to China of Billions USD to create jobs there?  Once The Corporations have moved all of the Manufacturing Jobs to their partners in the PRC, how do you expect to EVER get them back?

Or do you consider that MANUFACTURING PRODUCTION is not a significant element of a modern economy?

Since you are thinking about, let me ask another question that I am interested in about what THEY allow us to discuss in the United States:  Why do you think it is that our Corporate Media never discusses the single LARGEST CRIME in the history of the World: The Slaughter by the CURRENT RULING PARTY IN THE PRC OF 65 Million of its men, woman and babies?

If THEY are managing what we discuss in terms of MONOLITHIC crimes, is there ANYTHING that THEY wont try to manage in the future?

SuperMike1661,

So basically we have too much of an investment in Saudi Arabia, China, Africa and
all the other oil fields, and slaves around the world.  And they have an upper hand
on us since we’ve riding their backs to support our economy for decades now.

But the other factor is the consumer.  The power of the consumer to NOT
consume is a great one.  After all, SHAREHOLDERS are INDEBTED to the power of
the consumer, and I’m pretty sure America still stands the tallest when it comes
to shopping. 

Therefore, with said logic, the consumer has the upper hand and is ‘the greatest
single force guiding the Globalizing Economy’ NOT the Saudis or Chinese Slaves.

This thread is about cuts in state spending and look where you self-important blowhards have gone with it.

No, supermike, I won’t be entertainment for your dinner party at Chuckee-Cheeze. Good luck at Whack-a Mole.

rico, suave, January 18 at 11:35 pm:

‘...
“Higher prison populations = greater profits.”

Are you insinuating that private prison management companies have some say in who is put on their guest lists or how long they stay? ...’

I think it would be only reasonable to assume that this would be the case.  Notice, for instance, that among others who back the Drug War, the major activity filling our prisons, correctional guard unions are prominent.  It is clear that they see the Drug War as enhancing their employment opportunities and security.  So must also corporations running prisons: the fiduciary duty of their management would be to enhance ‘sales’, market share and profits, and so it would be in their interest to expand and intensify the Drug War in order to get more people into prison, an interest which would certainly be translated into campaign donations and propaganda.  Besides that particular crime against humanity, it would also be in their interest to get more behaviors criminalized to the point of sending people to prison and keeping them there.

It is really, really dangerous to hand over any of the coercive powers of the government to private profit-making institutions or groups.  The government is bad enough as it is.

Churchill was a great man, and invoking him touches me.  The question to me is NOT how to “never give up”. The question that is looming directly before us is: IS IT TOO LATE?

If this sounds “panicky”, look up an old Brit who lived through the London Blitz, and ask him if, other than Winny, most Brits did not feel that it was almost TOO LATE for them in the summer of 1940.  Our times are very dangerous. Note how QUICKLY China is rising. The speed of change is simply unimaginable to most people… except for the few at the top who INSTITUTE change.

WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW? The Trend is disturbingly clear:

Let us assume that Americans ALWAYS have the protection of the Constitution.  Now.

Of precisely what VALUE will this Constitution be if Asian slaveholders have taken every manufacturing job on the planet?

The manufacturing jobs are the Commercial Operations that create Balance of Payments (funds flowing between countries).

If Slaveholders in Asia have all the money, how do Americans defend this Constitution? Or do you believe that A United States that has been corrupted into a Continental Company Town will actually be AUTONOMOUS without defense?

Shenonymous

Please look at my post of a few minutes ago. If you still have questions, I will be pleased to respond.

Regarding your “opinion”, I understand.

I try to not give opinions, unless the required knowledge for analysis is absent; so that such speculation is required. 

Part of the work that I do every day, requires that opinions about the Future be rigorously based on knowledge about the Past and how it is Trending into the Future.  This is my bread and butter.

jonathonk

If I wished to say that the Saudis were running the world, I would have declared it.

No.  The Saudis are huge, but at this time the greatest single force guiding the Globalizing Economy is The Corporation that was designed to do two things:

1. To ever-expand its revenue base so that SHAREHOLDERS do not fire the Executives.

2. Earn Quarterly Profits so that SHAREHOLDERS are paid EVERY 90 days.

To operate these gigantic enterprises requires great expertise and intelligence. This is why a Harvard MBA is so highly valued.

But to OWN a SIGNIFICANT PIECE of one of these Legal Robots requires only that you be able to speak, half heatedly, one of the global languages, and a few Billion USD.  This is why a Saudi Oil Field is worth 10,000 Harvard MBAs.

The corporation is the Oligarch’s Robot.  This is why The Corporation is so dangerous.  It has the Free Speech of an individual US citizen, BUT it also has UNLIMITED funds to make ITS OWNER’S desires known with the force of law via its K Street fixing operation.

Now, who CONTROLS these Robots?  Major Shareholders CONTROL.  They ENFORCE their control by hiring and firing Operating Executives… at The Board Level. 

Therefore, if you are on The Board, or control seats on the Board, YOU are running the Corporation. If you run a Corporation in the United States, presently YOU run the United States… except for the Constitutional Rights of Citizens.  These rights are EASILY abridged via economic manipulation.

The rigor of our analysis is the ONLY thing that MIGHT save us from the coming domination.

Sorry SuperMike1661, I disagree with you and I am not making any
serious analytical error.  Firstly, I was not making any analysis,
merely stating an opinion. But if I were to make an analysis, I’d have
to ask you, secondly, to please provide evidence of your claim that
there are new emergent manipulators of the Global Economy.  You
are merely stating an opinion of your own that show shades of
conspiracy theory.  Thirdly, I have no evidence whatsoever that there
is a cleptocracy either. It is merely my empirical perception of the way
I see my best interests being frittered away by the politicians.  I really
love what Winston Churchill once said, “Never give in, never give in,
never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty -
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.”  The
giving in and sunsetting of the taxes on the rich was a travesty even if it
was used as a bargaining chip for DADT, which I wholeheartedly
supported. 

Fourthly, cleptocracy (or kleptocracy, my preference) is a term applied
to a government that offers personal wealth and political power to
government officials and the ruling class, as a group are called
kleptocrats, all at the expense of the population.  More formally, the
consequences of a kleptocratic government on a nation are typically
detrimental with regard to the performance of the state’s economy,
political affairs and civil rights. If allowed to develop, kleptocracy in a
government often results in a severe deficit of foreign investment
prospect, and drastic weakenings in the market and the operation of
exportation/importation suffers. As the kleptocracts often embezzles
its money from its citizens by misusing funds derived from tax
payments, or money laundering schemes, a kleptocractically structured
political system degrades the quality of life of the citizenry.  The stolen
funds that kleptocrats literally steal for their own personal gain are
often siphoned from funds that were supposed to go towards public
improvements, such as the building of hospitals, schools, roads, parks
and the like, bringing about yet further adverse effects on the quality of
life of the citizens living under a kleptocracy.  So I will reiterate my
former opinion.  It is a cleptocracy, not an oligarchy. Of course you may
believe as you wish. 

Fifthly, here are a couple of sites that deal with the problem of
kleptocracy:
Combating Kleptocracy
http://tinyurl.com/4h9exlv

http://tinyurl.com/4pdly6q
National Strategy Against High-Level Corruption: Coordinating
International Efforts to Combat Kleptocracy

What is pathetically ironic is the statement by GW Bush on Kleptocracy.
http://tinyurl.com/3adenr8

I believe that was rigorous enough.

SuperMike16661,

You’re right about a lot of things but don’t tell me you think the Saudi Prince and
China are to blame for our problems?  That’s the same bait conservative think-
tanks are throwing out at the time and you believe that.  That’s messed up.

The Republicans are talking tough about drowning things in bathtubs because they know they’ll never be allowed to do it.  It plays well with their coo-coo-bird base, so they make all kinds of wild promises.  Reminds me of the little dog that barks ferociously through the fence that keeps it safe.

RayLan

Well, I apologized in advance.

re rico:

When I say that he should give his insights, “for our dining pleasure”, I am being open and direct.  It is not difficult to detect the level of analytical rigor that rico brings to the defense of his beloved Corporations and (by proxy) the blood drenched hands of their friends and fellow-investors in the PRC.

I think he will be a no-show.

truedigger3

I appreciate your opinion, but did you actually check out the HOLDINGS of the Saudi Prince that I cited?

DO SO. Then you will see that the Saudis are heavily invested in minority positions in scores of American corporations.

Now ask yourself if Minority holdings have any power to control attached to them.

Also, who are these sharks you cite? Be specific. No one is more sharky than the Saudis who get the best (Goldman) advice in the world.

Develop your political analytical skills. 

Our analytical rigor is the ONLY thing that MIGHT save us from the coming domination.

Miks
“GOD, I NEED HIS laser-like analysis of this issue… for our dining pleasure… please”
You’re being sarcastic right?

Mike
” TYPICAL OF BREED”
What is that supposed to mean?

BTW, except for acronyms all caps get interpreted as yelling.
You want to split semantic hairs?
Not all frauds are illegal - some are just immoral.
Making promises one has no intention of keeping is not always illegal but it is one defintion of fraud.
Words have many meanings so sometimes clarity requires a qualifier

Similarily ‘viewable’ and ‘transparent’ are hardly inconsistent - nor are they redundant so your semantic hair splitting makes no literary point. If you’re confused it might not be the writing.

Don’t need the writing tips - thanks - I’m a practiced writer both technical and literary. I don’t find clarity and consistency to be hallmarks of your style in any case. Emotional yes .
If you get sincerely confused, I will be happy to parse for you. If it is just a dodge as it is for some posters, I don’t see why I should spend that much time on it.

Re:By SuperMike1661, January 18 at 11:00 pm

SuperMike1661 wrote:
“Americans might be protected by their Constitution, but that is irrelevant if a finally consolidated Global Economy is under control of Saudi Princelings and a hugely wealthy Globalized Elite. Of what use is “freedom” if the Free can only compete against the Enslaved?”
——————————
SuperMike1661,

There is no way, even in your dreams or nightmares, depending on your point of view, that the Global Economy will be affected or controlled by Saudi Princelings. They are fish, albeit, fat fish, in a tank that have several Sharks and Barakudas.!!
Probably, you surf a lot of misinformation sites.

Shenonymous, January 18 at 11:36 pm

When you state that the rulers are not “Oligarchs”, you may be making a serious analytical error.

Firstly, the newly emergent manipulators of the Global Economy (since full activation of OPEC in the late 70s) are NOT Cleptocrats. They do not need to steal when the laws can be so easily adjusted to provide Get Out of Jail Free Cards. This is the PRIMARY service of K Street, the Oligarch’s Corporate FIXER.

No… not a Cleptocracy.

You are dealing with a true Oligarchy… breathtaking in its tiny size and incredible in its efficient Technology of Control. It feeds on the people through its robots: The Corporations…  and IT resides in the shadows… covert AND deadly (Example: the Suadi Princeling, Alwaleed Bin Talal Alsaud, owner of a private air plane bigger then the President of the United States’ 747)

The rigor of our analysis is the ONLY thing that MIGHT save us from the coming domination.

As I understand it there are two forces behind Corporations: politicians and
people.  You all know more the details than me, but from what I hear there are
tax incentives for corporations to outsource.  Should we be surprised?  By now,
of course not.  Politicians we can’t do too much about because the game is
rigged from the inside.  Obama, for example, postured as the exemplified
grassroots candidate and it turned out he was money-backed more by the
Masters Of Finance than even John McCain on the Republican side.  That proves
that the stereotype about only Republicans being in the pockets of the
corporations nothing more than a myth. Of course, one hasn’t to look back
further than the last Democratic President for ample evidence to debunk.  So
voting is out of the question unless merely for a defensive purpose like to
protect the country from Sarah Palin for instance or Newt Ginrich. 

People, on the other hand, is a force we can do something about.  Since I am a
person and you are a real person and not a politician.  Are people a force
behind corporations?  Well, yes and there are plenty of things that ordinary
people can do about it right now if they could actually see the other side of the
mountain, so to speak, or even if they realized who the real enemy was.  It’s
not immigrants, or Chinese slaves, or communists.. it’s the system.  The sad
thing is that the few Liberals who do know this aren’t doing anything about it
for some reason.  And you can’t change the system and ride it at the same
time.  That what politicians tried to do and it didn’t work for them.  What makes
you think it will work for us? 

I have a few suggestions right now:  Start taking your money out the bank and
storing it under your mattress.  Get educated on urban gardening, and making
your own bio-fuels.  If you don’t trust buying silver or gold (and I don’t blame
you) than just buy food or anything practical instead and stock up on it.  I’ve
been anti-guns my whole life, but am now starting to have a change of mind,
but if you’ve ever been convicted of a D.U.I or have seen a psychiatrist you
might want to find underground means of purchasing a fire-arm.

Nor would a privatized Trust Fund be “turned over to Wall Street vultures” and you know it. That’s a favorite scare tactic of the left. The government would manage the portfolio, and even Republican plans include a minimum guaranteed rate of return.
*****************

Rico,
That plan was proposed by George W. Bush. Its solvency was based on a market rate of return Peter Lynch would drool over (IOW, it was a cynical fantasy, ie, a lie).  Bush had one serious weakness: Whenever he saw a bolus of public money he would immediately start scheming to get it into private hands:

1) Univ. of Texas Endowment.  It had very strict controls and accounting and was the richest in the nation.  As Gov, GWB signed a law that greatly weakened the controls from specific review to general review.  He then appointed a pal to run the endowment, who made rather reckless investments with companies run by others in the Good Old Boy net, and, by the time Bush left office it had been decimated to between 30-40% of its former size.

2) Bush saw the sweet surplus Bill Clinton left him and immediately pushed for tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans…but it didn’t stop with the surplus—he kept the cuts going even when it required deficit spending.

3) The Medicare sting.  The leaders of the House and Senate (it was under the GOP at the time) said they couldn’t accept a bill that would cost more than $400 billion.  The Bush WH crafted a bill that was just at that limit—and a week after it was signed said “Oops! We ‘forgot’ some stuff…It’s going to cost $550 billion…”  That money was pure profits for pharma companies—another bolus from the public sector to the private.

4) The social security privatization scam.  Bush set up and scammed the public 3 times…but this was going to be “Da Bomb”!  The biggest bolus of public money in history and he was gonna get it into the hands of…Wall Street!  Do you believe for one second with his history it was going to come back to us?  Wanna by a bridge?  Luckily, the public outrage scared even the GOP in Congress out of it.

His history was a bad one. Bush is like the Rand character, Wesley Mouch—expert at losing money.

If we are being exploited by guvamint, just imagine when
private crooks get us by the throat!  Such a bad idea to
privatize anything!  Others have given very good reasons
why, no reason to repeat them.

Naw, not an oligarchy because the “civil servants” keep changing
with elections.  It’s a cleptocracy.

skimohawk:

“You seem to be of the belief that privatization of correctional facilities is a good thing.”

Not necessarily. If a private company can do for less the exact same job as public employees can, then yes. If the prison system gets worse, then fire the greedy bastards and find somebody else. If no one else is around, let the state take over again.

“Higher prison populations = greater profits.”

Are you insinuating that private prison management companies have some say in who is put on their guest lists or how long they stay?

“Am I correct in my understanding that you think we should now privatize our educational system?”

Pretty much.

I’ve stopped drinking bottled water because the bottles are hard to get rid of. As for National Parks, and the Sacramento River, I defer to your expertise.

REDHORSE

YOU are grossly wrong about rico.  We NEED his analytical expertise.

I personally MUST HAVE his views on whether his beloved AMERICAN corporations are justified in making huge, job creating investments in the PRC while laying off Americans? (HE might wish to comment on the way in which FREE Americans are thus put in competition with SLAVES of a ruthless Communist State that is documented in SLAUGHTERING 65 MILLION OF ITS PEOPLE.)

GOD, I NEED HIS laser-like analysis of this issue… for our dining pleasure… please.

Think about it.  DONT YOU?

Do you think that he is holding back on his expertise here?

rico, let me give you ( in one word ) why privatization is a bad thing:
Blackwater

Federal funding for infrastructure in this country has steadily declined over the last three or four decdades, while defense spending has steadily increased.
Federal funding for National parks and National Forests has been reduced to the poiint where we are now closing or SELLING OFF facilities that were once public property. ( see: Cowlitz Valley Ranger District, Packwood, Wa. )

You seem to be of the belief that privatization of correctional facilities is a good thing. Privatization = Business for profit.
Higher prison populations = greater profits.
Do you truly believe this is a good thing?

Am I correct in my understanding that you think we should now privatize our educational system?

-

Here’s a few examples of what reducing funding for National Parks and National Forests has gotten us during the last couple decades:
Reductions in administrative staff and law enforcement on NFS and NPS lands result in fewer boots on the ground.
Result: increases in poaching of wildlife; increases in poaching ( theft ) of timber; “special forest products” ( mushrooms, berries, salal, beargrass, boughs ); deterioration and/or closure of public facilities that can no longer be maintained; increases in illegal activities on public lands ( methamphetamine labs, marijuana farms ) that ultimately cost millions to clean up after the fact,
and while in operation poison watersheds which ultimately become public drinking water sources.

Maybe this is of little consequence to you. Maybe you never visit National Parks or National Forests.
Maybe you drink only bottled water, so the quality of the water in the Sacramento River is of no consequence to you.
These things do, however, have an effect on some other people.

-

I am sure there are some things which might be better and more efficiently run by private entities.
Schools, prisons, and parks are not among them.

jonathonk

You need to look behind these Corporate Robots to see who is making them move and too where.

Americans might be protected by their Constitution, but that is irrelevant if a finally consolidated Global Economy is under control of Saudi Princelings and a hugely wealthy Globalized Elite. Of what use is “freedom” if the Free can only compete against the Enslaved?

The United States may be fully corrupted and nonredeemable even as we sound the alarm.

90% of K Street’s huge “tipping” fund, is presently provided by the same corporations that are pouring Direct Foreign Investment into the Peoples Republic of China. The controllers of major Corporations are RAPING their little slut, America, as they wish to MARRY China.

These “American” Corporations have crossed the line. They are primarily interested now in the Military protection that the United States can supply them.  Americans can die for them… or they might survive to come home to live in jobless gutters. (this is a political war on a level with that waged in 1941-45, and Americans will awaken to this soon… too late?)

I can also tell you for certain, you will be unsurprised, that once a Bond Salesman at Goldman tops over 20 Mill. USD per year, he instantly buys a Safe Bungalow in Europe… Switzerland or similar. HE knows the true future meaning of the gun play in Arizona.

Should I laugh or cry. It’s well that Boyarsky shine the spotlight on Norquist but the photo of the narcissistic toad (apparently like RICO’s) is enough to make we villagers sharpen the tines on the pitchfork and grind the cutting edge of the ax to perfection. (I’d say “lock n’load” but recent agreement on the general instability of the Nations mental health has instilled in me, a certain sense of caution.)

      I don’t mind RICO. I’m just amazed that he can openly say he’s “making it” up and we go straight “to the mat”. Bow wow wow, but one would assume that a social elite avowing expertise and unwavering belief in free markets and competitive free enterprise would demand and ensure a well educated, healty, creative and secure citizenry if only for the sake of competition.

      With all due respect, let me remind “us”, that Washington is an insane, corrupt and criminal enterprise. Our continued attempts to apply human moral reason, common sense societal theory or Democratic principals to it, is likely to drive us all bat shit crazy.

      Good thread. I agree with a poster below that a new dialogue is needed because, (I feel), as G.ANDERSON pointed out, Washington corruption has allowed installation of an Oligarchy. The tatters of Democracy that remain may again be rewoven into the whole cloth of Democratic Freedom but to ignore the new reality of our disintegrating American social landscape is personal folly. The seizure of Russia by the merger of organized Oligarchic Black Market Criminals and the KGB so resembles the present day American decline, that it isn’t openly discussed,(outside Hedges, Chomsky and a few others), is proof of its reality.

    The recent election acknowledged the real and open influence of International Capital on our political process. (Yeah, I’d say our forefathers are spinning in their graves.) Press reports Worldwide have revealed “above the law” factions capable of shutting down Government investigation or preventing prosecution of political/financial criminals (Norquist?). Many honest hard working Americans are now being driven into the underground “criminal” economy. Moral cripples like our President and Boehner ensure the coming chaotic violence. We are all being criminalized, and paying for it.

      PLEASE NOTE: We should consider that a serious split exists between the old school Bushite/Clintonista for sale polititicians and the still internally factionalized Tea Party. I suggest we consider that the Tea Party might lend an ear to rational factual progressive financial reform and policy. I’m not presenting this as an absolute but am asking we attempt to at least “see” the Tea Party free of Red Meat and kneejerk. Any chance for sane financial, campaign finance reform platform there? “Just sayin’”.

    Keep it Rockin’!!

So in two years we went from ‘Change We Can Believe In’ to ‘The Cuts Are Coming:
Grin And Bear It Or Else’?  Now after 2010:  the year of the BP Oil Spill, Massey
Mine Explosion,  Mandatory Health Insurance Scam, and bailing out the Ultra-Rich
Obama wants to strike a more business-friendly tone?  Is that even possible? I
remember him saying he was going to kick some ass or something along that line,
but when finance threatened to turn their funding to the republicans he quickly
retracted. I guess I should find it mildly surprising seeing as how Obama is half-
black, in his position,  you think he’d stand up more for justice.  But it seems
maybe his Harvard education has completely bleached his soul corporate-white
where justice only flows downstream with the rest of the waste.

truedigger:

“I am not sure what is your beef with it??!!”

Jesus H Christ! Please go over my posts. I repeatedly said, I have NO PROBLEM WITH SOCIAL SECURITY.

Now, your description of how it is funded, the T-Bond thing, the current solvency, etc is all true. For now. As you say, it will run out around 2040. Then what? Taking the cap off max earnings, something I thought should have been in place since 1935 by the way, will not be enough. The initial solvency of the program was predicated on around six workers per retiree, and a much shorter life expectancy. We have half as many workers supporting longer-living recipients. Your next solution for funding, raising taxes on the rich implies that SS will be funded out of general revenue. In which case why maintain the fiction of a Trust Fund any longer? Just roll the whole program into the budget and let’s see what happens.

Nor would a privatized Trust Fund be “turned over to Wall Street vultures” and you know it. That’s a favorite scare tactic of the left. The government would manage the portfolio, and even Republican plans include a minimum guaranteed rate of return.

re RayLan, January 18 at 8:21 pm

Well, one could ruthlessly dissect for rigor the posts here ... one could especially look for internal consistency.

Who has the time? Yet…

Once in a while, I scan the posts, asking myself: are they coherent enough to actually ADVANCE the arguments that they seem to support? Unfortunately, as someone who does analytical work for a living, I feel compelled to say, NO.

I do not feel that the posters here are ileducated or intellectually deficent. I DO feel that they often go TOO FAST! They often do not read the post that they wish to address, and so often misrepresent the poster that they ARE POSTING TOO. Most importantly, as someone who also has to EDIT, complex documents, I CAN TELL FOR CERTAIN that posters do NOT EDIT their material carefully (not fanatically) so that the ideas are structually clean before pushing the SUBMIT button.

I will take your post for example… not because it is unusually bad, but just because someone pointed it out to me as TYPICAL OF BREED.  Forgive me in advance:

I will only focus on the two most egregious issues.
1) You state that, “Ponzi schemes are illegal frauds”.  A fraud is an illegal transaction, so an illegal fraud is an illegal, illegal transaction. The underlying illogic of this assertion MAKES READERS UNCONSCIOUSLY PAUSE, and thus you loose them, and the merit of your idea is degraded.

2)You state that it is “publically (sic) viewable (transparent)”. when something is “viewable” it can be seen WITH THE EYE (of the mind, often). However, when something is “transparent”, it can be seen THROUGH, as glass is transparent. So once again you have embedded in your post OPPOSITIONAL TERMS that create underlying confusion in the reader’s mind… you lose her and/or you confuse her.

Writing is a wonderful process. USE the full writing process to clarify your ideas BEFORE pressing the SUBMIT button. Depending on how well you have been trained or on how talented you are; use the PREVIEW button One Time for each 20 words that you hope to post.

Rico
Ok. I’ll go real slow - the wishful thinking applies to the belief that SSI is a Ponzi scheme and Ponzi schemes are illegal frauds which are not transparent to public investigation or they wouldn’t work.
It does not follow logically from this that you wish it weren’t publically viewable (transparent) since you think that doesn’t disqualify it from being Ponzi that assertion being ridiculous.

Inherit The Wind

Every god damn day I look into the mirror and contemplate SECOND AMENDMENT SOLUTIONS on this Transplant.  TOO MAKE IT STOP TALKING… TO ME!!!

OHhhooo…. cheeezzzuzz…

oh.. GOD!!!

Shall I take my life and so end the Transplant TOO?

Or should I remain… with you… ATTEMPTING to reeducate IT?

I FEEL SOOOoooo…

I feel like PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO SHUT ME UP!!!

SuperMike1661, January 18 at 7:24 pm Link to this comment

cheeezzuuzz!

*************************

Didn’t your family warn you not to accept a brain transplant when the donor was Sarah Palin.  I realize it was unused and in pristine condition and she never used except for 30 minutes on alternate Sundays, but you shoulda known better!

rico says:  “States turn over prison management to private companies because they can do the SAME job cheaper. Otherwise, why would the state do that?”

Why?  Prisons are an industry that brings in local “business” to communities starving for jobs.
    America has been brainwashed to believe (whether it is true or not) that “private” is better than “public”. This myth is perpetrated by conservatives who enjoy “drowning the government”.
    Private contractors have a big lobbying voice, especially since military contractors have gone big-time under growing civilian resistance to wars and overt militarization.
    The national “privatization” campaign and the tremendous clout of media advertising and biased news have turned public service into a second-class employment opportunity.
    Other? (I haven’t even raised the question of whether we really benefit from “cheaper” prisons?)

rico, suave

Is it also acceptable for AMERICAN corporations to make huge, job creating investments in the PRC while laying off American workers? (you might wish to comment on the way in which FREE American workers are thus put in competition with SLAVES of a Communist State… yes?)

Give us your typically laser-like analysis of this… for our dining pleasure… please.

Re: By rico, suave, January 18 at 3:00 pm

rico wrote:

“If my lifelong contributions really are sitting in an account with my name on it somewhere, why can’t I call the government (just like I can call my IRA people) and have them write me a check for the balance, I’ll invest it or blow it, and we’ll call it a day? The only answer to that question is that the “personal account” is a total fiction. The pitch FDR gave the American people when he set this up is EXACTLY like Madoff’s pitch to his investors.”
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rico,

You are absolutely wrong. Currently the SS are getting annually from FICA taxes more than it pays in benefits and the balance is put in the SS Trust Fund in the form of US Treasury Bonds that is guaranteed by law by the faith and credit of the US Government.
The system is solvent and can pay full benefits until the year 2040 after that a simple tax increase, for example expanding FICA to cover all earned income insteal of just the first 106 thousand Dollars or rolling back some of th he obscene tax cuts that have been doled out to the super-rich will solve the problem.
Social Security is a retirement pension and not a saving or investment account.
Have Bush succeeded in privatising SS and giving the SS Trust Fund to the vultures and thieves of Wall St., the Trust Fund would have been obliterated, in the current Stock Market debacle, and gone forever and many poeple would havespent their last years destitutes.
SS is not a Ponzi scheme but it is one of the best run and efficient and beneficial programs of the Government. I am not sure what is your beef with it??!! Is it your beef that it is a good run government program that stand against the campaign of trying privatizing everything advocated by your ilk??!!
Oh yeah they privatised prisons and now the system is full of costs over-runs, mismanagement, bribery, corruption, understaffing and continuous escapes and similar thing happened when they are trying to privatize the State computer operations in my state.

JDmysticDJ

I HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR YOUR MEDICAL CONDITION(S)!!!

HOW DARE YOU BEG SO PATHETICALLY FOR THE SUPPORT OF THE PEOPLE?

I MYSELF, THAT IS ME… OR… THIS ENTITY… AHHH..

now, I FORGET WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.

ANYWAY! GOD DAMN IT!

I too, also, additionally HAVE A MEDICAL CONDITIONAL!

AND I RECENTLY EXPERIENCED A CRANIAL TRANSPLANT THAT HAS CAUSED ME SEVERE PERSONALITYH DISORDER… LIKE I DO NOT FEEL LIKE MY OLD SELF ANYMORE.      (different somehow…)

oh.. yes.. NOT hip hip… HIP HOP!

cheeezzuuzz!

surf:

“Corporations are only in it for the bottom line ( unlike public sector work forces who work for the common good) and in order to increase their botom line, they will cut costs, which means reducing labor, which will mean poorer services. Got it now?”

Got it. But your ascription of altruism and selflesness to public sector workers is touching and affecting. Naive, but touching.

As for the profit motive of corporations, you say that like it’s a deep dark secret. Of course corporations are in it for profit! That’s the whole point.

Do you think McDonald’s is in business to sell great tasting burgers? No. They’re in it to sell more burgers cheaper than Wendys. If they end up tasting good, all the better for the consumer. If they cut costs too much their employees go to Wendys, their burgers will start to suck, so they adapt.

What incentive would a government-owned hamburger seller have to put out a great tasting burger, absent competition from anyone- a superior sense of serving the “common good?” Please.

States turn over prison management to private companies because they can do the SAME job cheaper. Otherwise, why would the state do that? The push to privatize is coming from government, not the private sector.

Inner city kids are clamoring to get into private schools because private schools do a better job than public ones. They have to to survive. Absent competition, public schools are a nightmare.

Rico Suave

You should never consider yourself to be solely responsible for your good fortune. I myself devoted myself to a life of self sacrifice, working for the Airline Pilot’s Association. Do you think your 20 hour work week, pension, health care coverage, and weeks of vacation came without struggle. I must most humbly say that I am more responsible for your good fortune than you are.

Do you think I enjoyed the hours of grueling sweat and grime caked labor that I endured to make your life better? The glare of the sun through cockpit windows and the frigid walks from parking garages to executive offices were unbearable. Do you think I enjoyed the hours and days away from the hum of family life? Do you think I enjoyed the stays at hotels with poor room service and surly and greedy bell hops? The loneliness I experienced was so severe that I frequently resorted to escort services, in search of companionship and to alleviate my loneliness. Yes I missed the hum of family life, recalling the strains of death metal music emanating from my son’s room, and the thump thump of Hip Hip coming from my daughters room, the playful banter between my children, and not being present for the witty barbed criticisms directed at me by my wife, tortured me. My wife and children also suffered from my selfless occupation. My wife was unable to suppress her expressions of grief and sorrow because of my selfless choice of occupations. Do you think my children didn’t notice the lack of blue ray in the family SUV? But I endured, and I suffered all to benefit you.

Now I’m old and exhausted, I had to take early retirement because of my medical condition. I have no medical insurance and there’s no way in hell that I can afford the insurance; especially since I have a pre-existing appendectomy on my medical record. I’m currently in need of a quadruple by-pass, transplants of my lungs, liver, pancreas, and spleen. I wrote to Buffet and Gates in the hope of economic support, but apparently the letters didn’t make it through the red tape, or they wrote me off as being a lost cause. Incidentally, do you have a few bucks you can spare? Anyway, I can see your point about my being responsible for my current state of affairs. It was I who chose to live a selfless life, and it is I who invested in Enron, and with Bernie Madhoff.

I would think that my children would come to my aid seeing as how a paid their tuition at the finest schools, but they now believe in personal responsibility. Really though, I have to assign responsibility to myself, but I wish our Government hadn’t squandered so much money doling out money to the irresponsible, If they hadn’t done so, they might have a few bucks for me.

I’m resigned to my fate, I’ll go to my grave believing in personal responsibility. I now understand that the most fortunate are no more responsible for my welfare than they are for the current economy, or our foreign wars.

The importance of personal responsibility has been a hard lesson to learn, but you should at least give me credit for learning this lesson. The poor are not entitled to anything, only the rich are entitled. Its God’s law.

Rico,
We, in NJ, just lost a new tunnel to NYC and it’s going to cost us hundreds of millions in penalties, and we have some of the worst infrastructure in the country.

Why do you have a problem with the “spoils” system? It’s been the GOP creed for years.  Tax dollars paid by citizens vs fed revenue spent in that state.  Almost EVERY red state gets more than it puts in, and almost every blue state gets milked, paying out more (some of the smaller blue states get more, but only a few Red states get less…like Texas—Maryland being the exceptional blue state, but that’s solely due to DC’s proximity).

While I would PREFER to see spending be un-biased, it’s been SO biased toward red states for so many years if a Dem chooses some relief for a blue state, fair’s fair (or, in this case, unfair is fair).

I remember playing a softball game against a DC law firm.  They wanted EVERY rule bent or eased to benefit them, but were “strict constructionists” when it came to our side. (“Don’t pitch so fast”...but “you stepped one inch outside the basepath, so you’re out”)

Shenon:

” Lack of political wisdom is a sickness, I’m
convinced.”

This is exactly where we differ. You characterize the Governor’s cancellation of a project that was too expensive for the state to bear, and which was disapproved of by a large majority of state residents, as “lack of political wisdom”. I can only take that to mean that, for you, “political wisdom” is less the ability to read and represent the will of the people, than to know what’s best for people, despite their collective wishes to the contrary.

RayLan:

This, I think-

“Social Security bears no such comparison its funding and payment instruments available for public review in spite of your wishful thinking.”

By this time it should be obvious to everybody but a fence post that “rico snide” is absolutely on point and all we need to do is turn the goverenment over to the private corporations who know how to run things right. Then we could go on warring anywhere anytime, grabbing resources and cutting overpopulation at the same time.  Everything would be totally secure because nothing would be social anymore. Within a couple years the deficit would disappear and the U.S. Treasury would be rolling in ill-gotten gains and loved by everyone for its benevolent despotism. P.s.  There would be no taxes anymore and so of course no need for “tax breaks,” or “tax shelters” or “tax-onomists”.  There would be no further need for economists, ecologists, ethnologists, agronomists or any of those other elite college professors with two left legs. Huzzah!

Rico
“What makes you think I wish Social Security funding and payment instruments were hidden from public view?”
What makes you think that I think you think that?
I could give it another little twist if you want.

Maybe, Rico, I am the only one (‘cept you of course) who likes
your smile and personal image?  But why is anyone dwelling on
such a petty thing?  Do I answer my own question?

“The new Republican governor killed the project.”

Sounds like a twin of the NuJoizee Guvner. And I guess triplets with
the one in Texass too. Lack of political wisdom is a sickness, I’m
convinced.

RayLan:

I’m only trying to challenge some comfortable progressive assumptions, and I get mostly juvenile shit from you. What are you in sixth grade? You sound just like diamond and reynolds.

At least I have the confidence to post an avatar and have a little fun with my nickname. Grow up.

Rico:
Privatization of most of what were traditionally public sector jobs- infrastructure maintenance, schools,prisons, the military etc.-  has been another component of the Conservative Revolution since Ronald Reagan in the ‘80s. It is done to cut costs by eliminating state-held union jobs, and because private corporations- operated by conservatives- make out like bandits.The negative externalities of this economic policy( another term I’ll probably have to explain to you) are far reaching. Corporations are only in it for the bottom line ( unlike public sector work forces who work for the common good) and in order to increase their botom line, they will cut costs, which means reducing labor, which will mean poorer services. Got it now?

RayLan:

” Social Security bears no such comparison its funding and payment instruments available for public review in spite of your wishful thinking.”

What makes you think I wish Social Security funding and payment instruments were hidden from public view? What makes you think I wish SS were a Ponzi scheme? That’s what I’m accusing the government of wishing for!

“Just read a great piece regarding infrastructure spending. “
A great anecdote uncharacteristic of either party which just proves absolutely nothing.

ITW:

Just read a great piece regarding infrastructure spending. It seems Wisconsin Democrats wanted to build a $810 million highspeed rail from Milwaukee to Madison- to be funded by federal stimulus money. The new Republican governor killed the project. Booooo!

He said that Wisconsin wouldn’t be able to afford the cost overruns and operating costs for which it would be on the hook once the feds left. Wisconsin’s own estimate of permanent job creation from the project- 55 jobs.

Obama said take the train or lose the money. The Republican governor said, get this, “We have bridges and roads falling apart, and we could really use the money to fix those instead of for a train nobody wants.” And he’s a greedy Teabagger!!! Imagine that!

Do I need to tell you what the feds did? They took the money back from Wisconsin and sent it to California, a reliably Democratic, and pliable state. “We’ll show you, Wisconsin! How dare you presume to think you know better how to spend infrastructure money than we in DC do! You’ll ride the train whether you like it or not, because we know best.”

Rico

“Wasn’t Madoff caught?”
?? Yah so…
After it had to be investigated with much cover-up. It was just rank lying and misrepresentation. It wasn’t transparent. Social Security bears no such comparison its funding and payment instruments available for public review in spite of your wishful thinking.
With all your side-stepping, I would have to quote you verbatim but you have claimed that these entitlements are for freeloaders on the ‘government tit’.
I have to admit you rarely say anything specific enough to accuse you of a committment to be accountable for.
Once you do get dangerously close to a specific statement factually based we get these wiggling out tactics with twisted logic and semantic hair splitting.

surfnow:

“Much of the maintenance of America’s infrastructure is already being privatized,...”

Oh really? What does that mean? That Interstate and federal highway maintenance has been turned over to some local heavy construction company who decides when to fix what?

Is there any bridge or Interstate repair going on in your local area? Is a private company undertaking the repair on its own? How is it getting paid?

I will grant you that some county road departments probably are subbing out their work rather than maintaining a standing county-paid workforce.

But a government contractor is required to meet federal wage, OSHA, etc requirements. If a contractor has hired an illegal and the government is too incompetent to catch them, whose fault is it?

“( Just check out work crews on any given highway construction jobs- and count the illegal undocumented workers)”  Yeah, they’re the ones doing all the work. The rest are unionized or government employed white guys standing around holding up their shovels. I grew up in a heavily unionized town, doing summer jobs with county road department crews. I know EXACTLY how it works.

Rico, quite the ironer, I suppose epaulets require extra special care, 

Yeah SSI is a posies scheme just like the consolidating of the oil companies and the elimination of independent gas stations. In my neighboring town of soggytits,  it seems the only stations left have turned into Standard and Shell stations.  I find the competition of the gas station wars so fierce now, .....the price only goes up. 

I am holding off buying diesel for my dump truck and waiting for the price of diesel to get to $5.00, because I am positive with Republican certainty, $5.00 diesel will be a much better diesel then the cheaper crappy diesel selling now at $3.59.  Why don’t they just give us the good stuff and sell the crap to China?

RayLan:

Nobody, especially me, ever said Social Security was a “handout”. Where do you get that? Do you listen to conservatives on the issue? They want to make it more beneficial, not less, albeit NOT by increasing the FICA or by unfunded and unaffordable (by the Treasury) benefit increases.

And aren’t Ponzi schemes open to investigation and analysis? Wasn’t Madoff caught? Openness and analysis don’t make SS any less a Ponzi scheme.

“There is a solvency issue because current income tax may not match up to prior commitments which is the case with all insurance schemes.”

First, “current income tax” has nothing to do, legally, with FICA taxes, although we all know the SS Trust fund will soon have to start borrowing from the general fund to pay out commitments.

Second, again, SS was not sold (politically) as classic insurance (with the attendant risk you rightly point out), but as a personal retirement account more along the lines of a government-run 401k. It is most certainly not that today, if it ever was.

Rico:
You remind me of a line from Sinclair Lewis’ ” Elmer Gantry. ” He was born to be a senator, he never says anything important but he always says it so well.” 
Much of the maintenance of America’s infrastructure is already being privatized, which is the equivalent of “cutting back” on spending since it eliminates public sector unions. But the inevitable result will be- and we are already witnessing this with poorer highway and bridge conditions- with privitization comes lower wages which will translate into poorer workers with poorer work ethics. ( Just check out work crews on any given highway construction jobs- and count the illegal undocumented workers)

Social Security is a pay-as-you-go program. All current payroll contributions are pooled and then paid so it isn’t like a typical retirement account. There is nothing Ponzi or deceptive about it , since it is easily investigated and openly analyzed. Regardless of the payment instrument the benefit depends on one’s own contribution.
There is a solvency issue because current income tax may not match up to prior commitments which is the case with all insurance schemes.
In any case it’s not a hand out.
The Right would prefer leaving the outcome to the vagaries of the stock market which has shown to perform so reliably in the past. ; ) As long as they don’t have to pay for it.

ardee:

Now of course, since Buffet is giving his money to charity, it will escape the “death tax”. (Or Buffet has some pretty incompetent tax lawyers working for him!) Damn him. That foregone revenue could have bought us a few brand new Abrahms tanks!

ITW:

Boyarsky’s article, three quarters of which is a screed against Abramoff and Norquist, finally gets down to his real subject- STATE budget cuts. But I’ll discuss federal stuff if you want.

Wasn’t infrastructure repair the PERFECT target (can I say “target”, post-Tucson?) for the stimulus. You know, all those “shovel ready” projects just waiting for the money. And here we are, billions in unspent stimulus and thousands of potholes still stalking vulnerable suspensions. Who’s stopping Obama from fixing stuff? The stimulus bill was approved, funded, and signed into law, the money is there for the spending and there’s nothing Republicans can do to stop it.

France! Have you been to Italy? The Autostrada is absolutely magnificent. (How else to handle Ferraris with six inch ground clearance?) Almost all Western European highways, in fact, put the US Interstates to shame.

As I said to Shenonymous, I have no problem with Social Security “benefits.” Its funding however has become, if it wasn’t all along, a Ponzi scheme that would make Bernie Madoff blush and will eventually lead to benefit cuts or federal bankruptcy, absent huge tax increases.

If my lifelong contributions really are sitting in an account with my name on it somewhere, why can’t I call the government (just like I can call my IRA people) and have them write me a check for the balance, I’ll invest it or blow it, and we’ll call it a day? The only answer to that question is that the “personal account” is a total fiction. The pitch FDR gave the American people when he set this up is EXACTLY like Madoff’s pitch to his investors.

I won’t defend Norquist other than to opine that he’s far more interested in non-Social Security tax issues. (Maybe he’s for some sort of hybrid public/private scheme, but I’m pretty sure he’s not interested in cutting your mom’s benefits.)

sand11
“I don’t understand the attitude that helping those in need is somehow “wrong”. “
What’s wrong from the self-centered right wing ideology is that they have to pay for it. They don’t want to part with a penny for anybody but themselves that they don’t absolutely have to. It’s the political equivalent of childishness - refusing to share and help. The ignorance of such a view, is that subsidies for community are usually in our best self-interest. It’s what I call ignorant self-interest as opposed to enlightend self-interest.
The ‘greed is good’ ethic of unregulated capitalism is what busted our economy.

ardee:

“That Mr. Buffet made an initial contribution of two billion dollars, with the contract specifically calling for it to be spent completely in five years on charitable giving along with an additional 5% from the Gates Foundation as well seems to escape this poster’s notice.”

That Mr Buffet’s contribution went directly to the Gates Foundation with the stipulation that it be immediately spent, and he has pledged 85% of his remaining fortune to the Gates Foundation and NONE to the federal government, seems to have escaped your notice.

I don’t understand the attitude that helping those in need is somehow “wrong”. Taxes are meant to help provide a safety net for the more vulnerable in our society. Social cutbacks will inordinately affect the poor and the working poor, not only fraying the safety net but eroding the barrier between the haves and have-nots. When that barrier is breached, revolution will be the order of the day as those poor people will have nowhere left to go.

Rico,

You are generally sensible so I was not surprised that recognize the importance of infrastructure, its maintenance, and improvement and that this is a critical function of government. So I was stunned when you wrote “You won’t find too many conservatives in favor of potholes or crumbling bridges, etc. “.

This simply isn’t true. Our national infrastructure is crumbling and in crisis mode. Yet you’d think it would be something that Dems and GOPers could agree to fund….so where is it? (the funding)  Stevens 1/4 billion “Bridge to Nowhere”?

Funding infrastructure maintenance isn’t sexy, and it’s for some stupid reason not like snow removal. People don’t seem to make the same connection between their taxes and the immediacy of the effect as they do with snow or garbage removal.

It’s insane that in parts of California, in areas where people drive exotic foreign cars (translation—an S-class Mercedes is their equivalent to a Taurus elsewhere) localities are unable to get taxes raised to fund road repair—People prefer to pay to have their Porsches repaired from hitting potholes than having the roads fixed.

A couple of years back we rented a car at CDG (Paris)to drive west. I was amazed.  In France, where nothing’s supposed to work, the roads were far better than any I’ve seen anywhere in the US. In small towns and on the highways, the roads were pristine, maintained perfectly. Even at a crawl in bumper-to-bumper traffic on the Paris beltway, the road was immaculate. It wasn’t Germany—it was France!

Social Security was supposed to be an account-based system, it’s not welfare or a transfer of wealth.  My parents paid into SSI for their entire working lives—my dad paid in from the day SSI began after it was signed in 1935.  He didn’t start collecting his benefits until 1981, my mother until the late 80s.  They frequently paid in the maximum amount for the year.  Now, at 85, half of my mother’s income is from her Social Security.  That BARELY allows her to live in a moderately priced Independent Living facility without draining her life savings too quickly. Without it? I don’t know how she would manage, other than on the charity of her children.  Mom was no slacker either.  She worked hard all her life, and her spare time was given over to volunteer work.

Yet the pricks like Grover Nyquist would have her burn through her savings and be out on the street.  The GOP is DESPERATE to raid the Social Security Goldmine: Remember Bush trying to put it into the Stock Market, where we NOW know it would have evaporated into the hands of the AIG, Goldman and others? I remember vividly how the numbers of homeless rose within 2 years of Ronald Reagan’s tax-cutting binges.  That’s what happens.

Grover Nyquist has the short-term view of Ben Ali in Tunisia and most 3rd world dictators.  He doesn’t see that what he wants to do will turn us into a gigantic Haiti!

Rico
“It intrigues me that articles like this, where there is described a potential drying up of the government tit,”
One of the biggest boobs being defense.
I recall how you ignorantly called Social Security a handout.
It’s bought with taxes. The more you contribute, the more you get. If you dont’ believe me look at the FICA deduction from your paycheck - if you work for a living.
Since you’re such an independant without any need for the handouts of community infrastructure,(police, firemen, public works etc) why don’t you buy your own country and move there lightening the burden of self-centered whiners from the continent?

What’s amazing about such a story is how such “high fliers” ever find the wherewithal to carry on their lives of deceit and chicanery.

Meaning, why are they not denounced whilst in full play? Does no one pick-up on their trickery?

Where’s the FBI? Checking up on Muslim terrorists in Peoria?

It is difficult to understand how such frauds work and play under the radar-screens of law enforcement officials.

Maybe ya gotta be a crook to know one? Let’s hope that rule works at the Treasury Department ....

skimahawk:
When conservatives whine about “big government” it is never about the areas you mention-  the Police State,security and the military- those segments contain two things the elite will never give up- huge profits from the MIC and the control of the masses by the Police.They always mean downsizing in healthcare, social security, education and maintenance of the infrastructure.

Beats
“people just like the idea of a small government because it sounds good.  They don’t really understand what it means.. nobody is going to ask for “big government”.  That sounds scary but in truth “big governent” provides people with what they need.”
Yeah! Well said

If Buffet really wants to contribute to a specific social need, why can’t he just contribute directly to it through a charity, rather than filter it through government bureaucracy, which dilutes it with their overhead?

That Mr. Buffet made an initial contribution of two billion dollars, with the contract specifically calling for it to be spent completely in five years on charitable giving along with an additional 5% from the Gates Foundation as well seems to escape this poster’s notice.

But obfuscation, rather than clarity, is his raison d’etre after all.

If there were tachometers on the graves of either Washington or Jefferson, no doubt they’d have red-lined long ago, when they discovered their cautionary warnings about individuals amassing vast fortunes and building empires had been ignored.

Suggest you hit the “mute” on Limbaugh or Hannity and instead find a history book.

Smaller government?

You mean like: creating a DEA, a Department of Homeland Security, or a TSA?
Yeah, those were certainly sincere efforts to keep government smaller, weren’t they?

What’s weird is how so many can talk out of both sides of their mouths, but I still can’t see their lips move.

“Smaller government” - right up there on the Scale of Sincerity with “Kindler, Gentler, Nation.”

Barf bag, please.

Beats:

Mute your tv for just one second (MSNBC replays their stuff all day so you won’t even miss a thing)

Close your eyes.

Open an eastern facing window.

That faint sound you hear, when you strain real hard, is Jefferson and Washington rolling in their graves. You might have heard about them back in grade school. Little Chrissy Matthews might get a warm feeling up his leg when Fred Thompson shows up but He’s long since abandoned trying to understand the Founders.

Oh yeah, and they’re whispering something through their skulls:

They’re sorry their message has been corrupted so long few even know what they gave their sacred honor for.

people just like the idea of a small government because it sounds good.  They don’t really understand what it means.. nobody is going to ask for “big government”.  That sounds scary but in truth “big governent” provides people with what they need.

JDmysticDJ

no… NO… I find the picture considerably LESS painful than electrodes to my genitals.  It is, however, substantially MORE fright inducing than Water Boarding.

So let him keep the picture, but pray let SOMEONE Photo Shop that screwy look on his face.

Rico Suave

For the sake of civil discourse, and in an effort to cool the dangerous and heated political climate, I hope and pray that you will remove the picture that accompanies your posts. The picture is enough to drive even the most pacifistic of people to extreme violence. One look at that picture could possibly drive the sanest of individuals into madness. I understand that the great unwashed are not worthy of any consideration, nor should they be coddled, what they need is a few good whacks, but being exposed to that picture can only be considered cruel and unusual punishment. Forcing people to look at that picture for any prolonged period of time would be the most effective form of torture of all, including water boarding, electrodes to the genitals, yanking out fingernails, or the blowtorch and pliers routine. Please cease going mid-evil on us, for the love of God, and for the sake of humanity, I’m pleading with you, please, please, delete that picture from your posts.

Rico
I don’t just throw things out. That’s your gambit.
I already explicitly explained what was circular. I’m tired of chasing your tail. I was quite explicit. You figure it out for a change.

rico, suave, January 18 at 3:04 am:

It intrigues me that articles like this, where there is described a potential drying up of the government tit, elicit by far the greatest number of posts. ...

I see you don’t read Hedges.

Not that this is any fresh news to anybody, but the tragedy is that people who are roughly defined as “public servants” and ostensibly “elected’ to be “public servants” have chosen (for the sake of money) to become “private servants” of corporations and banks.  Yet they are still called “public servants”. 

Government of the people is impossible when public servants become private servants.  Until the gravity of this charade is confessed, disclosed and admitted, and dealt with through campaign finance reform, and a sincere moral rededication takes place, what hope can a reasonable person hold for democracy anywhere? 

Can we hope that will happen?  Can we help to bring it about?  One thing about the Giving Project is that it has at least succeeded in bringing billionaires down out of the cloud of dehumanizing self-sufficiency, disconnection and abstraction and enabled them to participate together in some sort of a “real human world”  by expecting them to make choices that benefit people less fortunate than themselves.

There’s been no “drying up of the Government tit” for the likes of Halliburton, Lockheed, Boeing, General Dynamics, Bank of America, ad infinitum.
The squealing you’re hearing, rico, is that of the runts of the litter: those at the lower end of the socio-economic scale, who are paying far more proportionately ( in terms of income-to-tax-burden ratio ) than those at the top.

Are you a paid schill for these people? Or just delusional?

It intrigues me that articles like this, where there is described a potential drying up of the government tit, elicit by far the greatest number of posts. Second only to the latest crime perpetrated by Israel.

It’s the panic of the taker class at the prospect that the provider class may be having a tantrum.

The cuts are coming whether we like it are not. First they’ll come for your hands, then your legs and arms.

I hope we do something before they get to our heads.

For those of you who would like to hold on to your extremities:

Join the Revolution
Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( http://www.revolution2.osixs.org )

We don’t have to live like this anymore. “Spread the News”

kerryrose:

I appreciate the bio. And I’m sorry for your hard knocks. I still maintain that stories like yours are not the norm, by far. I have no objection whatsoever with helping people genuinely in need.

Now go find your ex, chain him like a rabid dog, and beat him til he gives you what’s yours.

kerryrose, January 18 at 2:07 am

gee. thank u for this superb post.

i wish you the best.

Shenon:

Yes! The government would be off the hook for Buffet’s in-kind help to social programs. But there is another word for that already- Private charity. There are hundreds of charities, local and national, which could use Buffet’s money far more effectively and efficiently than the US government. The HUGE difference is that, it would be under Buffet’s personal control (it IS his money after all) and not under the control of compromised-by-lobbyist, power-hungry bureaucrats and politicians in DC.

What I’ll never understand about progressives is their belief that government knows best how to spend other peoples’ money, and their equally strong disgust with the way government spends other peoples’ money.

Will someone help me square that circle?

I am not “being naïve,” I am naïve when it comes to how money
factors around in government spending.  Your suggestion for Buffett
seems a good one.  So then my view that it indirectly would help the
government by decreasing its need to fund social programs is logical.

rico

I was a graphic artist for the NY Times as an outside contractor (they later sent their work to India).  I was required by law to save for retirement. Since I was partners with my ex the pension account was under the business name.  He took the money and I couldn’t afford to fight for it.
Many people don’t make enough to save and live paycheck to paycheck.  This is not a choice.  Many spend savings providing for children’s college.  Many lose their homes and have to spend retirement savings.

So many lives do not ‘go by the book.’  That’s why we all have to be responsible.  My father was a generous person, not a hater or a blamer.  I respect him for that when I hear all the ugliness from people as if we have forever, and our pennies are the most important thing.

Shenon:

“Of course their and the others they convince to participate in The Giving Pledge will incidentally help government social programs by funding those people who would ordinarily need help, if they give to American causes, that is.  My view is that it would be more direct if the money were “earmarked” for social programs and the government manage it
since the program structures are already in place.”

I respectfully think that you’re being naive. Money given by individuals to the Treasury cannot be “earmarked” for specific programs. It’s fungible. It will go to wherever the government needs it- war, bailouts, etc. I would LOVE to tell the government how and where I want my personal income tax dollars spent!

If Buffet really wants to contribute to a specific social need, why can’t he just contribute directly to it through a charity, rather than filter it through government bureaucracy, which dilutes it with their overhead?

Rico – “Why do you think the government will spend Buffet’s
money more wisely than he, or whatever charity he picks will?
After all, look what the government is doing with his money now-
fighting two wars, bailing out banks, car companies and insurance
companies. Do you think Buffet will have any say in how his money
is spent once he turns it over to Congress?”

No, I don’t think the government would spend Buffettmoney more
wisely than he, but not less wisely either. 

The fact that the government is fighting two wars is not being funded
only by Buffetmoney.  Granted he is paying a great deal, rightly so, and
he actually wants to!  But the two wars are being funded as well by all
of the people’s tax money.  They had their warseeds at least a
decade before Obama and his company came in to power.  So financing
the wars it really a moot point whether by a liberal president or a
conservative one.  The wars and the financial bailouts are not simple
matters to analyze, evaluate, or are anything about which to be
insouciant, and to discuss them would be a digression from this forum.

Buffett is the epitome of the pragmatist.  The wisdom of making money
is one thing and he unquestionably knows about that in spades.  The
wisdom of spending it is a separate matter.  I am not arguing that
Buffett wouldn’t know how to spend money or wouldn’t show wisdom in
spending it.  He certainly gives spending advice in his interview at
philanthorphy.com and it also certainly seems sound.  His anti-poverty
program is probably the most altruistic to come along in decades.  I
don’t know, of course, since I haven’t checked that out.  Seems like Bill
Gates is involved in a similar program.  And Buffett and Gates are
promoting other megawealthy to do the same and have had some
success at it.  His philosophy in giving money is to pick good people to
run whatever institution he gives it to.  Were he to give his money to
the government to spend on social programs, I think he would say pick
good people to run those social programs.

Of course their and the others they convince to participate in The Giving
Pledge will incidentally help government social programs by funding
those people who would ordinarily need help, if they give to American
causes, that is.  My view is that it would be more direct if the money
were “earmarked” for social programs and the government manage it
since the program structures are already in place.  Buffett has
expressed his confidence in Obama and by the associative principle, his
administration as well.

kerryrose:

“I don’t think that the rich, or anyone, contributing to the Social Safety net can be considered ‘free money’ to the poor.”

Well, how else would you characterize it? Really. The concept is not a judgement on whether the poor deserve it or not. The fact is that transfer payments are free money, “deserved” or not.

As for pensions. The great heroes of conservativism are the cliched “entreprenuer class.” These people are, by definition, self-employed. Which means any “pension” they may later enjoy is funded by themselves, during their work lives. They forego “now” for “tomorrow” in the form of IRAs, Keoghs, the like. As an artist and private educator, you fit into that class.

Those who work for companies without pensions obviously know they must look out for themselves, and still can save with IRAs and 401ks. A company pension is not a “right”, no matter what AFSCME or the SEIU or Rich Trumka may tell you. I worked for a company that offered a fabulous pension. I would have just as readily taken the equivalent pay and invested it myself. I may have done better or maybe not.

And what percentage of the population would fit into the “Enron” class? Those people were definitely screwed, but what are we talking about here- a few thousand. Ok, help them out. What’s the tab? A couple billion a year? Ok.

“Social security is a necessity.” Only for the unfortunate few.

rico, re:
“You won’t find too many conservatives in favor of potholes or crumbling bridges, etc.”

Reagan’s “Let’s cut all the taxes” policy is the very reason our infrastructure is falling apart.

Ronald Reagan = Patron Saint of the “Conservative” Right Wing.

“Cutting taxes” results in “crumbling infrastructure”.
We’re seeing it already on the ground. ( 520 Floating Bridge, Alaskan Way Viaduct, Murray Morgan Bridge )

The Trade Unions ( Particularly the Teachers Unions ) are just the latest target in the on-going quest for absolute power and control.

RayLan:

Point out my circular logic and my desperation. Please.

Don’t just throw out a comment like that for grins. I’ll think you’re just another diamond or reynolds.

Rico
More circular logic. Telling you it’s a waste of time is not itself a waste of time. It’s an important declation about how you and your ilk desperatrly maneuver, the current question being a good example.

rico

I don’t think that the rich, or anyone, contributing to the Social Safety net can be considered ‘free money’ to the poor.

We have had this conversation before.  I believe in supporting a ‘community.’  I don’t regret taxes, I regret that people with more money than me gripe about it, and refuse to act for the ‘common good’ or the ‘commons.’

I don’t have a ‘pension’ job for many reasons, and many of those have been out of my control.  You don’t need to hear a personal story situation.  There are a large majority of people who do not have pensions (many jobs just do not offer them) or those pensions have been stolen (think Enron in California).  Social security is a necessity, and you needn’t worry that your children will have to pay anything because Welfare doesn’t really exist anymore, and apparently Social Security doesn’t have much longer.

Hopefully your children, and mine, will want to contribute to the welfare of society, many of whom experience poverty because of societal malfunctions.

ITW:

I think the thrust of the article was cuts in education and social welfare programs, not infrastructure. You won’t find too many conservatives in favor of potholes or crumbling bridges, etc. And you certainly won’t find ME in favor of a free-for-all in the sky!

To track the real political beneficiaries of these coming Cuts, you need only ask who will benefit most in DOLLARS. 

Then ask if they are in OR ABOVE the political fray. This is the long path to political maturity.

The time left for the people’s neck to avoid the long dark night under the Oligarch’s Boot… is running out.

RayLan:

Well, then why did you respond?

kerryrose:

I’m not talking about Social Security. Social security is a contract the government made with you- it sets aside some of your wages while you WORK, and you get a pension when you retire. I have no problem with that. Nor do I have trouble with the disability provision of Social Security. Some people get screwed by fate.

You sound well educated and competent, it sounds like the life choices you made were completely voluntary, and the “comfort” level you experience is completely of your own making.

Being an independent artist and educator doesn’t preclude you from saving for the future. Will you be able to survive solely on Social Security when you retire? If not, do you think it should be my children’s responsibility as working taxpayers to fund the gaps you voluntarily declined to fund for yourself while you were working? Please forgive me if this doesn’t describe you personally. I’m just asking.

95% (I made that up) of the population of this country are capable, educated and competent enough to survive “comfortably” in this economy, if they choose to. Some choose to live hand to mouth. I think that’s an irresponsible and selfish choice, particularly when people who make that choice demand that more foresighted people pick up their slack.

If a person so well equipped for life lives out his productive days without saving for that “rainy day”, is he being a responsible citizen, one who contributes to, rather than takes from, the “commons”? Is it fair for that person to demand that government, funded disproportionately by more farsighted taxpayers, provide the umbrella which he was too shortsighted, or irresponsible to provide for himself?

I AM comfortable thank you, but I certainly didn’t achieve my comfort level at your expense. Nor should you expect me to maintain it at yours, any more than you should expect me to maintain yours at mine. Rich people are accused of being selfish and greedy. But isn’t it selfish and greedy to demand free money from rich people?

ITW - I’m afraid your impassioned and correct observation about how everyone (especially businesses) USE the infrastructure is completely lost on our fellow Americans. Here’s why:

1) Since R. Reagan was president, few in the Media have bothered to educate and inform Americans about the cause and effect of taxes. The Media has failed, miserably, to do its job.
2) Conservatives have done a great job of propagandizing the issue of taxes. They have managed to “un-connect” the dots of taxes ultimately paying for vital systems and infrastructure that benefit everyone.
3) Here’s the real ugly reality: AMERICANS DON’T WANT TO HEAR THE TRUTH. They simply want to believe that if only corporations had more money in their coffers, they would start hiring, start innovating, start “working for the common good” again.

When the Media starts to openly confront the Nordquists out there who are able to say whatever they want without having to defend their positions, then I’ll rest easier. Unfortunately, there are few good journalists doing this sort of work today, nor are the American people smart enough to listen.

rico
“Come on now. What did I say that makes you think I want people to die? “
I didn’t way you wanted anybody to die.
I said
“Apparently people have to die before Rico and the Reps show any concern over the social services network”

Your dodging issues by getting into these hair-splitting meta-arguments is a waste of time - it’s what almost always happen when I try to make sense with conservatives and Catholic priests.

Inherit the Wind:
Not only would America never have achieved what it did w/o a tremendously effective publicly built and operated infrastructure, but just take a publicly run agency like the US Post Office. America’s postal system was the envy of the world for a century. Picture how little would have been accomplished w/o a safe, secure and efficient postal system- people in Mexico City for example have to hand deliver their mail because the public system can’t be trusted. And then take our public school system that was also the envy of the world, up until the 1970s. Where do people think the engineers, scientists, teachers, and doctors of the last century were educated- in private ,elite prep schools like the Bushs’ went to?  The only things prep schools ever produced were Wall Street crooks, corrupt banksters and thieving politicians.
There has never been a government in human history w/o a tax system. It’s how those taxes are spent that is the difference between a democracy and the oligarchy we are fast becoming.

M.L.—Shame on you for posting this!

“One more bad guy to target and take out.” Whether seriously, or in jest, it is thoughtless, heartless and tasteless, especially in view of the recent tragedy in Arisona.