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Posted on Jan 17, 2011
AP / Cliff Owen

Americans for Tax Reform President Grover Norquist jokes as he is introduced before addressing the Conservative Political Action Conference in Washington.

By Bill Boyarsky

“Casino Jack,” the movie about crooked lobbyist Jack Abramoff, portrayed anti-tax demagogue Grover Norquist as just another member of the Washington fixer’s club. But the filmmakers greatly underestimated him.

Abramoff went off to prison while Norquist, who heads Americans for Tax Reform, has stayed around to twist the arms of legislators in every state in an effort to make them sign no-tax-increase pledges. Those pledges, if honored, would result in reductions in already dwindling appropriations for education and social welfare programs and many other needed services in states with huge deficits. “My goal,” Norquist famously said, “is to cut government in half in 25 years, to get it down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub.”

He started Americans for Tax Reform during the Reagan administration. Later, he was a leading strategist of Republican Newt Gingrich’s takeover of the House in 1994. Over the years, Americans for Tax Reform has become the nation’s most effective anti-tax organization.

There’s an angry self-righteousness about the movement. Its members seem to see themselves as doing God’s work while the rest of us are sinners, especially the sinner-in-chief in the White House. But as Jesus said, “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.”

And sin—if it is a sin to betray the public trust—is part of the Abramoff-Norquist story, as told in “Casino Jack.” What’s in the film is backed up by documents and news stories about the days, some 15 years ago, when the two men and their cohort were flying high, along with another collaborator, Ralph Reed, who was head of the right-wing Christian Coalition.

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Abramoff, played in the film by Kevin Spacey, was known as Casino Jack for his highly expensive lobbying on behalf of Indian tribes involved in gambling enterprises. He was lobbying against lotteries and casinos that would have been competition for his clients.

The Senate Indian Affairs Committee said in 2006 that Americans for Tax Reform had been a “conduit” for funds that flowed from Abramoff’s clients to surreptitiously finance grass-roots lobbying campaigns. Susan Schmidt and James V. Grimaldi reported in The Washington Post that “as the money passed through, Norquist’s organization kept a small cut, e-mails show.” Norquist also moved more than $1 milllion from Abramoff clients to Reed, then an influential fundamentalist Christian organizer. “Reed was working to defeat lotteries and casinos that would have competed with Abramoff’s tribal and Internet clients,” the reporters wrote. It would, of course, look better to the public if the money came from Christian and anti-tax groups rather than gambling interests.

Abramoff pleaded guilty to fraud, tax evasion and conspiracy to bribe public officials. Norquist told the Post that Americans for Tax Reform worked with Abramoff’s gambling clients because they shared anti-tax, anti-regulatory views. He said his organization was not used to conceal the source of funds sent to Reed. Reed said he hadn’t known the money originated from Indian casinos.

Norquist and Reed moved on with their careers. Norquist’s best-known activity is pressing officeholders and candidates to make a “Taxpayer Protection Pledge” to voters—a promise to “oppose and vote against any and all efforts to increase taxes.”

Tea party influence in Republican primaries makes this a powerful threat to some politicians. In November, the Republicans won a majority of the nation’s legislative seats. The elections produced the biggest Republican statehouse majority since 1928, according to Stateline.org, published by the Pew Center on the States. This means that state governments in big and small states will be heavily influenced if not controlled by uncompromising signers of the Norquist pledge, all of them frightened by the prospect of Norquist-led tea party opposition in their next primary election.

This uncompromising politics leaves states with deficits only one alternative—to sharply cut money for medical aid to the poor, education, law enforcement and many other services. In California, the Republicans in the Legislature won’t even support Gov. Jerry Brown’s proposal for legislation that would submit to a popular vote a tax increase to help eliminate a $28 billion budget deficit. Although Democrats control the Legislature, they need Republicans for the two-thirds majority required for passage of the legislation.

This is happening in the state where a popular-vote approval of Proposition 13 in 1978 started the anti-tax movement. I asked John Kartch, communications director for Americans for Tax Reform, about this contradiction in which the anti-taxers now oppose the California Legislature authorizing a popular vote after they supported one in 1978. Kartch, in an e-mail, said Brown should gather enough signatures for a voter initiative putting the measures on the ballot without involving the Legislature. “ATR’s position is that Gov. Brown should not be forcing legislators to do his dirty work, making many of them break their central campaign commitment to constituents in the process,” he said.

That uncompromising attitude in legislatures all over the country will result in great hardship to those dependent on our government’s safety net. The Grover Norquist who was willing to wheel and deal with Jack Abramoff shows no compromise when it comes to inflicting misery on millions of people.


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ThomasG's avatar

By ThomasG, January 27, 2011 at 12:07 pm Link to this comment

jonathonk, January 21 at 5:07 am,

The whole dichotomy between the Democratic Party/Republican Party Duopoly is like two cannibals arguing over who eats the American Populace.

The Cannibals:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/112523/the-american-ruling-class

From the perspective of the American Populace, the American Populace needs to get free of both of the cannibals, the Democratic Party/Republican Party Duopoly, and represent the best interests of the American Populace apart from the interests of the cannibals.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, January 24, 2011 at 11:31 am Link to this comment

Mike, Okay spit balls then! Agreeing on the level of barrages or even if they are really barrages at all, requires intensive thought, this may be why little seems to make sense. I ask, could it be semantics’s, degrees of comprehension or different personal environments?  One thing does seem apparent to me, agreement, CON senses (damn you Walker) or objectivity is not on the table. Many opinions offered by posters appears to be projected as mathematical factoids. Suggesting the perceiver is expected to absorb the Popes gospel or to bask in the rays offered by the sun.

For me TD offers a learning experience, an insight into the bigger picture and explains why shit happens. It does not seem, nor ever has seemed to be a place for followers or leaders. (Was this satire?)  I find TD a good place to be informed and gather up some speed in helping me to understand and make decisions at my own level of comprehension.  From my vantage point and my observations, this may not be same for others, I cannot say for sure.  Though I do have my own opinion,...... what appears before me is opinionated opinions offered as facts presented with no margin of error. As solipsist thoughts. So it is with my empty gunny sack I pick through and glean the field of what little I can.

At the end of the day, I attempt after my feeble ability to glean, attempt to explain for myself why this seemingly sinking ship seems to be sinking and to answer as my goal when it all will end or hit bottom.

Actually now, after little reflection, I believe I do and always have known the answer!

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By SuperMike1661, January 23, 2011 at 5:29 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller

I find no “exchanged barrages”. 

Believe me. I have closely monitored the posting activity here for over a week. 

I am preparing to move on now. It is just this lack of “exchanged barrages” that leads me to focus my postings elsewhere.

My impression is that the posters here do not want to lead and do not want to follow.  So what is the purpose of a “truthdig”?

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By SuperMike1661, January 23, 2011 at 2:17 pm Link to this comment

re TAO Walker


This post has merit.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, January 23, 2011 at 12:28 pm Link to this comment

Ass an objective observer sitting in my assinged foxhole of the political DMZ, I must say the exchanged barrages have left me no recourse but to say calling someone an ass hole seemed an uncalled for offensive attach in the grand scheme of things, then after a hefty harry ass defensive rebutting (one of the longest I have seen by said poster) grabbing ones balls saying it is over and going home seems a sign of something, possibly running with all de feet!

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By ardee, January 23, 2011 at 7:54 am Link to this comment

As to the style of Rico the misplaced comma, well, his responses become ever more off the mark, his ignoring of points he cannot refute and his distortion of the points others make about his illogical style of diatribe and harangue are ever more pathetic and lame…But can you really blame him when he seeks to defend the indefensible?

I offer this:

rico, suave, January 21 at 3:59 am

as proof of the above. Insulting someones mother and sister are seen by this jack wagon as serious political commentary…..I see a departure in the offing,perhaps he will come back as the rfidler character he once posted as, or claimed to have used. I recall that particular poster as being more palatable by far.

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By TAO Walker, January 22, 2011 at 10:13 pm Link to this comment

The analysis of “SuperMike1661,” laying-out the lethal (for the transnational workers of the West, anyhow) dynamics of the ChiCom/Plutoligarch axis, seems to be both clearly stated and comprehensively accurate….as far as it goes.  Its fatal flaw, as suggested at-least implicitly by several engaging him here, is its myopic failure to go anywhere near as far as we have to get.  If we’re to find some beneficially effective mutual response to this terminal predicament of which the machinations of the ‘axis’ are a perhaps substantial, but still just one among a number of other ultimately only superficial vectors ‘trending’ relentlessly toward the death of Earth Herself and All who ‘sail’ with Her, we’d better look much deeper than its “political” and “eCONomic” sub-systems, to the much-sooner-than-later DEAD END process here of the entirely “self”-referential “civilization” disease driving it all.

The insanely homo-centric belief that there’s really nothing happening here but a zero-sum CONtest, between nation-state gangs and their monstercorp WMDs, over who gets to live highest on the spoils from the systematic destruction of our Living Arrangement, is as bankrupt as are the angloamericanimperialist gangsters presently seeing their supposedly “god-given” world hegemony being lost precipitously to the older and much more experienced capos of the Middle Kingdom.  If this really is all there is to it, then both the weight of “history” and the present state-of-play suggest the probably best-available-option left to the “barbarians” of “The West” would be to surrender unconditionally, and to throw their “selfs” on the (admittedly dubious) mercies of their more successfully “industrious” betters.

The Natural Fact, of course, is that both “sides” are mere ‘tools’ of an invasive retro-viral ‘entity’ using them all to degrade the Natural Vitality of this Living World into various types of the degenerate “energy” the thing has to have to persist in its own undead CONdition.  ‘Political action,’ no matter how massive, can have no remedial effect whatsoever on such a completely Biological “problem”....anymore than it could have that, for instance, on any of the pandemic CONgeries of actual illnesses overwhelming all the captive peoples everywhere in the “global” maximum security regime.

Sickness calls for Medicine.  This particular ‘strain’ will yield only to the therapeutic Virtue of Organic Functional Integrity such as resides in the Natural Organic Form of Humanity….Natural Persons ORGANized as genuine Human Communities.

Humanity, as such, is a vital component in Earth’s immune system.  Right now most of it is (perhaps irrecoverably) dysfunctional.  The symptomatic excrescence of the ChiCom/Plutoligarch axis is nothing but one (and not even the most immediately “threatening”) among a growing number of potentially “final” solutions to the ravages of this disease process.

Come together, Sisters and Brothers, with family, friends, and neighbors where you’re living and breathing right now, in aid of our Mother Earth and each other.  ‘Fast’ together, from all eCONomic activity, for forty Days and Nights.  What’s killing us all cannot itself “survive” such a withdrawal of what it ‘feeds’-on.  Absent that, Her own necessarily drastic response will certainly be going through Kali’spell. 

ALL TOGETHER….NOW!!!!

HokaHey!

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, January 22, 2011 at 9:57 pm Link to this comment

Hey, Rico; Now I remember you we went to the same orphanage together, I remember some of the kids razzed and called you names because you wore the same white shirt with epaulets on it, but I always thought you wanted to be a doorman at some fancy hotel?

You may remember me, we talked about how we could be brothers because we both did not know our mommy and daddy, but I rmember you showing me a picture of who was supposed to be your great Antoinetteaunt, named Marie and had something to about eating cake!

Boy, Mr. bigshot, those epaulets must have worked. Flying off into the wild blue yonder and I am stuck here, living under a bridge beating off homeless people from stealing my shopping cart. I find it tricky hopping on my one good leg swinging my pegleg like a club.  The hardest part is to make sure I must remember not to try and kick them while they are down. 

Do they have shopping carts in Paris? If they do for old times sake, you could pick one out for me and bring it back in your cockpit, then I would be the envy of all my neghibors, the only guy with a French and extoic shopping cart.

Regards

Leefeller

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By Inherit The Wind, January 22, 2011 at 10:01 am Link to this comment

Let them refuse to raise the debt ceiling.  Then they will CLEARLY “own” the recession and the rising unemployment, and the credit crisis that will follow.

The Dims have to be smart enough to see this as a GOLDEN opportunity to get back on track.  Refuse to be blackmailed by the GOP! Refuse to have programs held hostage!

Either the GOP backs down on the debt ceiling, showing they are phonies and bluffing, or they go ahead and show they don’t give a shit about America.

Just don’t cave yet again!

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By reynolds, January 21, 2011 at 12:12 pm Link to this comment

cole porter

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By reynolds, January 21, 2011 at 12:11 pm Link to this comment

“if your enemy is of a choleric temper, irritate him”
- sun tzu

farewell, amanda
adios, a dio, adieu
farewell, amanda
it all was great fun, but it’s done. it’s through

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, January 21, 2011 at 11:38 am Link to this comment

Well after all this time, I had thought Rico Rico he has something to do with those cavity searches at the airport.

If I am going to point fingers, I prefer to point my middle finger at the bought and sold for cronies in Washington DC and then point my index finger at Mexico because of those damn American toilet seats…....Who should I suppose, really won the Mexican/American war?  .... I bet Rico’s epithets are made in the good old USA like my shirts from Wal Mart that that mostly say on the label….“Made in Indigenous”.

Now, I understand my fear of flying, it has nothing to do with the cavity searches, (I know some people are into this sort of thing, Republicans I suppose after a little foot tapping in the rest room) now to me, it seems they want to make it as uncomfortable as they can before I get on the plane, so if the plane happens to not make it, I wont give a shit! 

Wonder what kind of searches they would have conjured up for the High Speed Rail?

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By SuperMike1661, January 21, 2011 at 2:44 am Link to this comment

skimohawk

yea..ah…

rico is not available just now… he is transpacific, destination Paris.

The epaulets are manufactured just outside of My Dong, in Cow Dung Province…

ah, like, 3200 Yuan per Gross.

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skimohawk's avatar

By skimohawk, January 21, 2011 at 2:33 am Link to this comment

In spite of this thread having gone down the toilet a couple days ago, it’s still kind of amusing, in a way… like watching bee-bees rolling around in a washtub….. rattle rattle rattle….

rico, where can I get some of those way-cool epaulets?

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By SuperMike1661, January 21, 2011 at 12:40 am Link to this comment

jonathonk


OK. I will play.

You say that, “if U.S. Corporations outsourced all the jobs to China than it’s China’s fault?”

NO!

No… no.  I already showed you that this term, “China’s fault” is not specific enough to be helpful IN TERMS OF FUTURE ACTION. I also stated clearly that the real issue, IN TERMS OF FUTURE ACTION, is, “where does our enemy’s real Power lie?”  We need to know this because, if we take away his power to hurt us, we have enhanced our chance to survive.

The real power in the PRC is with the CPC. Yes?

The real power in the US is with the Oligarch’s Corporations that fund and run the political system (the courts indirectly by appointment), and they operate all of the media, less a tiny fraction. Also, they own a growing share of the PRC as PARTNERS there… importing slave products to the determent, and ultimate destruction, of the American economy.

If you want to SEE “my point”, I need you to agree or disagree with this analysis.  If you do not do this, you will never SEE my point because you will remain in the dark about where the true THREAT to our freedom lies… and grows.

This is the way it is. What I am telling you is Political Arithmetic, i.e. if 3 plus 3 is 6 then NECESSARILY 6 plus 3 equals 9.

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By jonathonk99, January 21, 2011 at 12:07 am Link to this comment

Please don’t pretend to hold our sham of a democratic system up so high on a
mantle when you know it’s a big fat lie.  It’s apparent the only thing separating
American Workers from Chinese Slaves is NOT our sorry excuse for a
fraudulent democracy but HOW LOW WE CAN GO wage wise.  Unfortunately, we
don’t get a vote on that. Thanks to our so-called democracy we don’t even get
close.

What is YOUR point though?  So if U.S. Corporations outsourced all the jobs to
China than it’s China’s fault?  Spare me the crap.  It’s our own US Government
who placed American People on the same LEVEL PLAYING FIELD as Chinese
People through nafta, and deregulation, and tax incentives to US Corporations
to outsource, etc, so they could get filthy rich.

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By SuperMike1661, January 20, 2011 at 11:55 pm Link to this comment

jonathonk

Hint: Think not about who controls America now. 

Ask this: By employing PRC slaves today, have the Oligarchs found a nearly perfect weapon to finalize control of America tomorrow?

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By SuperMike1661, January 20, 2011 at 11:35 pm Link to this comment

reynolds

Well, rico certainly provides a stage on which to teach a wide range of Political Tactics.

With this latest post, we can invoke the Rule of Hidden Disgust… to wit:

If your oppenent is destroying himself, turn slightly away so that neither your friends nor your enemies can see the revulsion on your face.

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By SuperMike1661, January 20, 2011 at 10:59 pm Link to this comment

jonathonk, January 21 at 3:28


Well you are throwing more issues against the ceiling to see if any stick, I suppose.  I will play one more time, but please dispose of your growing list or go down in your emerging complexity.

American workers are NOT subject to internal passport controls. They are not under SEVERE censorship.  They are able to vote. They are able to organize…if they wish. Most importantly for our purposes, Americans can assemble and organize against oppressors… for a limited time, I believe.

To imply that PRC slaves are substantially the same is ludicrous. This is an important error. You made it, and you will not walk away from it.

Did I refer to the Chinese Revolution anywhere? If so show it to me. You need to confront the issues on the table. Focus on what is happening in the PRC today… not 60 years ago.

Nuking the Japanese was the result of a horrible war that they began. HOW DOES THIS RELATE TO YOUR CHILD’S FUTURE?

The discovery of the New World 500 years ago means what in this context? HOW DOES THIS RELATE TO YOUR CHILD’S FUTURE? 

You are uninterested the largest crime in world history; so try this question: what will happen IF current trends continue, and the people who control America ally with the people who control the PRC?

I can accept that you do not like the question about ongoing mass murder, but are you interested in a question about the termination of democracy via economic subjugation?

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rico, suave's avatar

By rico, suave, January 20, 2011 at 10:59 pm Link to this comment

reynolds:

Tell your mom to come over and iron some shirts and my epaulets for me will you? I’m off to Paris tomorrow and want to look FINE. My regular “undocumented” girl just got hired away by a freshman Republican Congressman (a Teabagger no less! Can you believe the hypocrite?) I’ll understand if your mom is still in rehab, or if you don’t even know who she is. In which case, just send your sister, if her pimp won’t mind too much. Hell, tell him I’ll pay him the going rate if he gets all petulant on you. I need those shirts and I’ll be damned if I’m doing them myself! And don’t worry. I won’t disrespect your mother or sister. (They don’t make condoms thick enough! Hee hee.)

I’d ask my mom, but as you already know, I’m a bastard foster child myself, clueless about who she is, let alone who my daddy is- I’m a fully qualified Republican!

I’m tellin’ ya reynolds, this free market crap is hard, having to rely on yourself for every damn thing. I wish I could just call the government and have them deliver my clean shirts and crisp epaulets. I have a RIGHT you know! I’m a union man! My work falls under the Commerce Clause which guarantees me a universal right to everything- free! But since the fucking Republicans are in control, I’ll have to pay your mom, or your sister. Hell, I’ll even give them cash, minimum wage, off the books, tax free money!

But since I can’t rely on Obama, tell—- yo mama! Or your sister’s pimp. I need them done tomorrow!

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By jonathonk99, January 20, 2011 at 10:28 pm Link to this comment

In this rigged wage-labor economy American “Workers” are also slaves lest we
forget.  Classifying them as anything otherwise is doing the corporate agenda a
great service. 

I don’t know why you keep referring to the ‘greatest crime in the history of the
world’ as the Chinese Revolution.  You act like we never nuked Japan.  Like I
said before it was when the filthy Europeans sailed over to the Americas and
proceeded to exterminate the Indians with their diseases and guns.  But why
get hung up on 500 years ago or fifty years ago for that matter unless you’re
trying in vain to prove a point?

So what is your point anyway?  Because who cares who controls China?  Where
do I live?  Alas, who controls America is the question!  Is America even a
sovereign nation anymore?  If China controls America I would assume it’s
America’s fault for getting us into it for promoting free-trade agreements with
corrupt authoritarian regimes.  If China doesn’t control America than I don’t
know why we’re obsessing over the PRC.

Once again.. the question is NOT what China can do for America but what you
can do for America.

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By SuperMike1661, January 20, 2011 at 10:00 pm Link to this comment

reynolds

Yes, indeed. You gotta problem.

Or…

If you are knowledgeable about political processes, then tell us: Who will ally with YOU once they know that YOU will attack via sexual innuendo?

If you smear your opponents in this way, what will you say behind your friend’s back… if THEY are heading for for your ENEMY’S LIST?

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By SuperMike1661, January 20, 2011 at 9:54 pm Link to this comment

By jonathonk,

“China” is not “too blame”. The CPC, in axis collusion with INVESTING Oligarchs, and their huge Corporations, are “too blame” for the systematic destruction of WESTERN ECONOMIES.

We are not talking about a mere “recession”.  We are making the easy case that Western Democracies are at threat for their very existence.

Now also, the PRC only holds 8% of USA’s outstanding debt.  This is not what the Corporate Media tells you, but it is a fact, i.e. China is not a key factor in the American Debt situation.

“Second”? The citizens of the United States DID NOT enter into an agreement to “do business” with the PRC that would lead to the permanent destruction of the US economy.  American Oligarchs did that.

“Karma” is a religious concept. Achieving total power over the finally globalized economy is a Practical Political concept of Western Oligarchs WHO ARE UNINTERESTED IN THE FUTURE POLITICAL VIABILITY of the West.

Chinese “Workers” are Slaves.  Classifying them as “workers” is simple mislabeling. Do not worry about what they are paid. Worry about the fact that an unending column of Slaves is prepared to compete with your Free progeny, until they are NOT Free.

What you call “China” is not at issue. WHO CONTROLS CHINA? This is the question you must use to blow the fog away from the issues you want to address. (a fog laid on by decades of sleek, fake ideas about what the mass murderers in the PRC have done)

Get my point? 

Let me ask you one question that you should consider objectively: Why does the Corporate Media bury and run from the fact that the current ruling party in the PRC continues the greatest crime in world history, the slaughter of 65 Million men, woman and babies?

Until YOU know the answer to this question, the great Propaganda victory of Corporate Media OVER history stands. As does its victory over your mind.

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By reynolds, January 20, 2011 at 9:19 pm Link to this comment

oh, no! i won’t be taken seriously here?!
laugh out loud

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By jonathonk99, January 20, 2011 at 9:18 pm Link to this comment

Blaming China for America’s economic woes in this so-called Great Recession
is a mistake plain and simple.  It’s like pointing the finger at Iraq after 9/11. 
Haven’t you ever heard the Chinese proverb about the pointing finger? 

First, America has been borrowing to the tune of hundreds of billions from the
PRC annually for i don’t know.. DECADES now, and now we can’t pay them back
because the dollar is degraded.  Not China’s fault though.

Second, if you do business with the devil you should expect to get fucked from
the rear.  The United States reaps what it sews by engaging in business with
tyrants and authoritarian regimes all around the globe.  They call it blowback
aka KARMA. 

What’s next?  Now American Corporations will start crying BLOODY-MURDER
because Chinese workers will get a fifty-cent raise (instead of making two
dollars-an-hour, they’ll make $2.50). That’s just unacceptable!  Is that China’s
fault too? 

Get my point?  How about a little less sympathy for the Devil (U.S.
Corporations) and a little more sympathy for American People.  If China is such
a fiend then PULL OUT already greedy bastards.

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By reynolds, January 20, 2011 at 9:18 pm Link to this comment

neither is a distended ego with an internet
connection a substitute for courage. you’re sounding
semi-suave like. you’ll blow a gasket, have a
tantrum, and your proxy will have to take over
(amanda?).
those inclined to forming committees, drafting
resolutions, or otherwise gratifying the
unfathomable urge to parliamentary procedure, are in
the basement of the espicopal church right now doing
just that. no- it’s thursday, that’s parents without
partners night. well, they’re somewhere doing it but
that somewhere ain’t here. if your grand design
depends upon corralling the disembodied voices in
print on these pages, and that they should submit to
your will (or you’ll take your ball home), you are
as tiny a time killer and space filler as the black
posters you warned about recently- and who better
would know?
i doubt anything more powerful than carpal tunnel
will result of your campaign. i look askance at your
promises, your threats and your boy wonderisms.
get off the field? the one i’ve abandoned? or what?
you’ll get all undemocratic with me? i’ve seen that
movie, too.

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By SuperMike1661, January 20, 2011 at 8:56 pm Link to this comment

reynolds

NO DAMN IT!

The Objective Fact that is in question here is that you HAD NO LEGITIMATE CAUSE to attack by sexual innuendo.

Such an assault may have done permanent damage to your viability here, and certainly is an insult to rico and ANY other contestant in the market place of ideas.

I think you should step aside OR APOLOGIZE FOR WHAT YOU HAVE DONE.

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By SuperMike1661, January 20, 2011 at 8:43 pm Link to this comment

reynolds

Blatant sarcasm is no substitute for confronting objective facts.

Such sarcasm is an ABANDONMENT OF THE FIELD.

It is WEAKNESS hiding behind Smarty-Pants IGNORANCE.

Get off of the field or get engaged.

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By reynolds, January 20, 2011 at 8:30 pm Link to this comment

by all means, point away. how generous of you to set
me straight. i’m beginning to understand your
affinity for uncle rico. you both read a tad like
oliver douglas from desilu’s “green acres”.
permit me to step aside that you and suave, fife and
drum, might lead the way to that shining city.
you will forgive me if i do not take seriously any
claim of taking suave seriously. not in that get up.

a favor; take go right young man with you. his
habitual haw has him going in circles.

some people, no names, take life so seriously as to
require absurdity to make it bearable. others are
just absurd. the notion that grover norquist is
defensible is truly absurd. suave will be heard.
alright, i hear him.
he’s free to pack up his tiny pretzels and hie off
for huffingtown anytime.
until them, i might be inclined to clock his sorry
ass.

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By SuperMike1661, January 20, 2011 at 6:24 pm Link to this comment

reynolds

Let me point out that the Republican Party broke into the political mainstream by appealing to American Conservatives at a life and death moment.  Just as now, America could have gone to sleep… PERMANENTLY.

When Lincoln articulated the clean and powerful Anti-Slavery planks of the Republican Party at Coopers Union in 1860, observers in New York, could “feel” the political ground shift, earthquake-like, under their feet.

THERE IS CLEAN PRECEDENT IN AMERICA FOR REVOLUTIONARY FORCES TO REACH OUT SUCCESSFULLY TO THE RIGHT.

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By reynolds, January 20, 2011 at 5:26 pm Link to this comment

that’ll keep you busy

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By SuperMike1661, January 20, 2011 at 5:14 pm Link to this comment

reynolds

Although rico appears to be an implacable defender of the Oligarch’s Corporate attack on America, I do not agree with denigrating him by sexual innuendo. 

The huge forces that CONTINUE their rapid destruction of the American Center would applaud your act.  They wish to see rico and his Populist Conservatives PERMANENTLY alienated from a Center coalition.

In the near future, the center will reach out for all the “ricos” that we can find.

WE DO NOT WANT A SULLEN STARE SHOOTING BACK.

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By SuperMike1661, January 20, 2011 at 5:01 pm Link to this comment

surfnow

If you wish to aggressively explore fatal weaknesses of the Prison Industry concept, look hard at WHY we do not privatize the Police Function in Democratic societies.

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By SuperMike1661, January 20, 2011 at 3:06 pm Link to this comment

“frankly, how can we blame China if it is Americans who enjoy salaries at great multiples of Chinese workers”

This is an extremely sophisticated thrust into the bowels of the thinker’s mind. The statement is one of many that are invoked in an earlier post to subvert actual thought processes by anyone who wants to SEE what THEY have done to America.

Does the writer of this disgusting PSEUDO-THINK ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT CHINA OR ITS SLAVES (always called “worker”) ARE TO BLAME for the slave’s exploitation by the AXIS of CPC and Western Oligarchs?

Once more I leave it too others to stick-poke the turds floating in this toilet-bowel-post.

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By surfnow, January 20, 2011 at 2:14 pm Link to this comment

The Rethugs’ Spending Reduction Act includes elimination of the paltry $1.5 billion Amtrak subsidy and the $2.5 billion proposed for high-speed rail construction. These people are beyond the pale- their selfishness, greed and stupidity is endless.

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By reynolds, January 20, 2011 at 12:38 pm Link to this comment

i don’t understand miss suave’s dudgeon. her team
will always win. the cuts are coming but not for
her. she still has her time share in puerto penasco.
the throngs of poor and disenfranchised are
necessary, she tells herself, for the waving of palm
fronds, fetching of drinks, selling of their bodies.
miss suave plays the beneficent americano, buying
chiclete from amputees, allowing them a glimpse of
her tattoo of ronald reagan from “death valley
days”. she lends new meaning to ‘trickle down
economics’.
i can’t take her seriously as anything but blech
poster.

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By SuperMike1661, January 20, 2011 at 12:27 pm Link to this comment

WalMart (how the full story is hardly ever told)

Not only is the Walton family the richest family in the world, it is the most obviously dangerous… much more dangerous than Arab clans with their ever-growing centralized fortunes.

Walmart’s war on America is an OVERWHELMING, engulfing PINCER, the likes of which the world has never seen.

What is NEVER discussed in the Corporation Media about the Walton family is that it conducted and continues its TWO PRONGED attack on America. The fact that this DOUBLE THRUST TO THE GUT is never fully revealed is just another PROOF that there is a corporate media, and that it does cover the tracks of its owners (Walmart is one of a few gigantic national media buyers, read: controlling power)


If the Waltons only attacked on one flank or the other, America might have had a chance, but the the family attacks simultaneously:

1 - The family is the PRIMARY MOVER in the building of the manufacturing slave-empire of the Communist Party of China.  That giant capital, the Waltons, would embrace their political enemy, the Communists, is a strong signal that Capital takes NO PRISONERS. So the Waltons are prime movers in the destruction of the American manufacturing base by a slave state.

2 - Not satisfied with destroying the Manufacturing base, they proceeded then to destroy an entire class… the “Shop Owning” middle-class in America… by erecting the Walmart Chain… for economic murder.

Can the United States ever recover from this enormous betrayal? NO. Not under present political conditions.

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By Leefeller, January 20, 2011 at 11:43 am Link to this comment

“And frankly, how can we blame China if it is Americans who enjoy salaries at great multiples of Chinese workers and who shop merrily at WalMart for the cheapest China-price for their gadgets?”

Maximizing profits and providing the most mediocre products for the price does have its merits, from what I gather, Rico may be the only one who knows about enjoying great multiples? 

I found a collectors item the other day at Wall Mart, I had to buy it, it had large picture of the American Flag on the box and said made in Mexico! I think it means it was made for Americans Not necessarily a better product just eminently larger. .........It was a toilet seat!

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By SuperMike1661, January 20, 2011 at 11:28 am Link to this comment

Someone posted to the effect that I am “preaching too the choir”. This is totally incorrect.

If we are to rebuild the political Center in the United States, it can only be done on an intellectual base… not a faith base.

The New Center must actually UNDERSTAND AND BE READY TO EXPLAIN why it states that organized American Oligarchs and off-shore money ARE destroying the West (not just America). If the New Center is to grow, it must lead by defining reality, and this BETTER BE the correct reality because the opposing forces will swiftly come for us.

The entities that would DESTROY a Centerest resurgence have huge, ready-to-go power at their disposal.

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By surfnow, January 20, 2011 at 10:47 am Link to this comment

States turn over prison management to private companies because they can do the SAME job cheaper. Otherwise, why would the state do that? The push to privatize is coming from government, not the private sector.

Rico:
You’re missing one of the most important concepts today in Economics. Negative Externality. When traditionally public sector functions like the military, crime prevention and security ( prisons) become privatized there is an incentive to increase war and allow crime. Now, how do you increase crime?  well the best way is to increase the amount of laws on the books. Drugs are illegal mostly because they afford the best way to load up the jails.( this goes to the nitwit commenter on this thread who believes that there are more prisoners in our prisons because there are morepeople committing crimes- what a moron) ” Crime” for the most part today is only what our current crop of corrupt legislators choose to define it as- 75 percent of state incarcerations are for drug charges- many nonviolent-

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By SuperMike1661, January 20, 2011 at 9:54 am Link to this comment

re By Lafayette, January 20 at 9:54 am

There are many problems with this lengthy post that summarizes the current Corporate argument for political passivity toward China’s rise. The entire set of assertions needs to be reviewed.  For these ARE THE ARGUMENTS THAT PASS FOR RIGOROUS THOUGHT in the West today.

For our purposes though, we need only focus on the keystone of the post: the ululated assertion that “China is like Japan”. Which is false.

Japan had a practical limit on its total labor pool.  Therefore, as Japan’s manufacturing economy matured, the entire labor pool was soaked up, and WAGES ROSE to world levels. Thus simple supply and demand theory worked.

In China the situation is TOTALLY DIFFERENT. The present manufacturing labor force presently stands at about 110 Million scattered primarily along the Eastern seaboard.  The total WORLD manufacturing labor force, depending on precise definition, may stand at approximately 300 Million.

Within China’s interior there stands ready at least 400 million more UNTAPPED WORKERS(slaves).

The simple supply-side numbers instantly destroy the lazy and invidious argument that “China is like Japan”.

It will be many decades before traditional supply and demand factors begin to have SIGNIFICANT effects on the COST of China’s huge subjugated mass.  In the mean time, Oligarchs who manipulate Western Stateless Corporations will continue their investment in the PRC… totally subverting the West’s economic viability… with deadly effect on its political vitality.

Elite analysts in the West (McKinsey, etc.) know this. Ask yourselves why these simple facts are suppressed.

(there are many other intellectual subversions in this post, but I have opened the door for anyone who cares to walk through)

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By Shenonymous, January 20, 2011 at 9:39 am Link to this comment

5 Yups.  The perennial they say a good nights sleep often cures
what ails ya!

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By Anarcissie, January 20, 2011 at 9:16 am Link to this comment

Looks like rico is not too suave (in either the Spanish or the English meaning) when he loses the argument on both the facts and the theory.  Wipeout!  Best take a rest, rico.

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By ardee, January 20, 2011 at 7:12 am Link to this comment

rico, suave, January 19 at 11:59 pm Link to this comment

gerard:

You still haven’t shown that a private prison management company has anything to say about who gets thrown in jail and who gets released. Of course if there was less “product”, the companies would make less money! So they lay off an unnecessary guard and costs come back into line with income. That’s econ 101.

As Rico descends ,ever faster, into distortion, obfuscation and even outright lie one can express a bit of sympathy for his untenable position thus his need to distort truth to make a point.

For those who seek the truth regarding private prisons and their role in ever more stringent laws, or for that matter, the role of the largest group of federal employees, prison guards, in lobbying efforts to ensure more prisoners thus more jobs, more profits, less justice:

http://mediafilter.org/mff/prison.html

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130833741

There are much more facts about prison lobbying efforts to pass ever more stringent laws out there, a simple search of any engine will suffice in bringing them to you.

But really, does one need a link to know that private corporations seek to maximize profit and minimize expenses? Of course you do not. When the business of a corporation is prisons then the more prisoners the higher the profit.The less services provided, the higher the profit.

An already abysmal system of penology in which job training, psychological evaluation, even medical care, are all unsuitable and all have a role in recidivism rates can only be made far worse by replacing our prisons with for profit institutions.

As to the style of Rico the misplaced comma, well, his responses become ever more off the mark, his ignoring of points he cannot refute and his distortion of the points others make about his illogical style of diatribe and harangue are ever more pathetic and lame…But can you really blame him when he seeks to defend the indefensible?

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By Lafayette, January 20, 2011 at 4:54 am Link to this comment

THE ONLY CONSTANT IN LIFE IS CHANGE

SM16:

  Comment: The fact that China SELLS us more goods and services than we BUY from it, is a huge negative factor for the USG NOT because it is happening, but because it does not appear to EVER be going away.

This means that the PRC has the United States at a permanent disadvantage.  Today NO ONE knows how to correct this imbalance, therefore China never stops adding to the US Imbalance of Trade.

Be careful of the word “permanent” employed when posters have an insufficient understanding of historical economic trends. Particularly in a world where the only constant in life is change.

China’s trade with the US is four times the reverse. Uncle Sam has a long way to go to balance that figure. But it is not Mission Impossible.

At the same time, all this wailing and gnashing of teeth over the imbalance is almost identical to one we once had with Japan in the 1960s. Is there any difference?

Only some. But it is inevitable that China’s labor-costs rise, like Japan’s, and that the trade balance stabilize and perhaps diminish.

And frankly, how can we blame China if it is Americans who enjoy salaries at great multiples of Chinese workers and who shop merrily at WalMart for the cheapest China-price for their gadgets?

What ever made anyone think that this disequilibrium was forever sustainable? The China-Challenge began, in fact, in the early 1990s. We’re just getting around to “Wakey! Wakey!”?

International Trade is a “real market”. By which I mean there is damn little one can do as regards set prices of commodities or manufactured goods. Aside from oligopolies like OPEC, most prices are established by good ole Supply and Demand in World Trade. Which is key to truly Free Enterprise.

So why should Americans, who hold the notion of Free Enterprise so near and dear to their hearts, get into such a snit?

Do we really want the Chinese to adopt American manufacturing wages so as to wipe out our trade deficit with China? No, we don’t want that.

It would result in an even stronger China with which to contend. So, what is our ONLY option?

My suggestions:
* Find ways to compete with China that will allow America to create jobs in manufacturing, which can be done only by a massive automation of production lines is specific labor-intensive industries. Which means employment for Americans who know how to run highly sophisticated manufacturing technology.
* The American GDP is 70% Services-sector and 30% manufacturing / agriculture sectors. Service jobs are dislocatable, but not to the extent of manufacturing jobs. In all sectors, we need a highly qualified, skilled workforce—and that is NOT the case. So, please, enough of the bullsh*t about cutting state budgets. As regards Education, such cuts are tantamount to cutting off our nose to spite our face. It is Dumber Than Dumb.

Expect the Replicants to do it anyway, since they haven’t had a Cogent Idea in their heads since the nineteenth century. And were they to have one, it would get lost in the darkness.

POST SCRIPTUM

China must create 750,000 jobs a year. Because China has not only a massive work-force, but also a large percentage of entrants to its Labor Force—all looking for a job.

More so, the Chinese population for the moment are fascinated by their good fortune. But should there ever be a change in that factor, meaning educated people who cannot find work, then the Chinese leadership have a very volatile situation on their hands.

There has been already one “Tian’anmen Square” popular uprising and there could well be another.

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By Gonewest, January 20, 2011 at 3:29 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I was curious so I counted the comments on this
article.  Top posters are

rico, suave (33)
SuperMike1661 (30)
RayLan (18)
Shenonymous (13)
truedigger3 (10)
...

Seriously, how do you have time to post so much?

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By SteveL, January 20, 2011 at 2:18 am Link to this comment

“The Cuts Are Coming” Great start with the wars, the military, defense contacts,
and overseas bases.  Move on to street repair, trash pickup, police protection,
water, and sanitary waste all in Grover (ahole) Norquist’s neighborhood.

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By skimohawk, January 20, 2011 at 1:53 am Link to this comment

Obviously this thread has devolved into a pissing match.

Mike, no offense intented at this end, but I do believe in some cases you’re preaching to the choir.

Cheers!

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By Shenonymous, January 20, 2011 at 1:10 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie—And we are funny.

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By Anarcissie, January 20, 2011 at 12:36 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous— We are rich.

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By Shenonymous, January 20, 2011 at 12:27 am Link to this comment

“Nanny Capitalism only works for the rich.” 

mebbee…mebbee so.  Problem is everyone wants to be rich even
socialists and communists and anarchists. 

Way…ell… almost everybody.

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By reynolds, January 19, 2011 at 11:27 pm Link to this comment

“i have the confidence to post an avatar”  that’s not
confidence, it’s effrontery.

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By RayLan, January 19, 2011 at 11:16 pm Link to this comment

“The free market at work.”
After a substantial hand out from Daddy. Nanny Capitalism only works for the rich.

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By gerard, January 19, 2011 at 11:11 pm Link to this comment

rico suave:  Go press your epaulets!  Cheers!

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By reynolds, January 19, 2011 at 10:22 pm Link to this comment

btw; that’s ‘no comma asshole comma’. skidmore comma
right.

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By reynolds, January 19, 2011 at 10:12 pm Link to this comment

no petulance there

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By rico, suave, January 19, 2011 at 10:08 pm Link to this comment

ITW:

The free market at work. A marvelous machine.

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By rico, suave, January 19, 2011 at 10:06 pm Link to this comment

gerard:

No asshole, those weren’t my last words. My last words, right after the quote you pulled were, “We can agree all day long that lots of people are thrown in jail for stupid reasons, but that has absolutely nothing to do with who runs the jail.”

I should have known better than to trust you with a serious response. Fuck you.

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By reynolds, January 19, 2011 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment

gerard; exactamente. in their literature for a prison
vendor’s trade show, the president of cca said of a
prison they built on spec;
“if you build it, they will come”

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By reynolds, January 19, 2011 at 9:34 pm Link to this comment

i’m not surprised that you don’t know how to spell it.
what year did you graduate princeton?

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By gerard, January 19, 2011 at 9:33 pm Link to this comment

Famous last words:  “And if prisons are a growing business, it’s not because they’re run by private contractors, it’s because more criminals are being thrown in jail.”

You get the idea!

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By Inherit The Wind, January 19, 2011 at 9:27 pm Link to this comment

Private prisons sound like a good way to make money on paper.  In fact, they aren’t doing very well.  Wall Street analysts don’t cover them anymore because they are flat-out LOUSY INVESTMENTS!

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By rico, suave, January 19, 2011 at 9:15 pm Link to this comment

reynolds:

Yep. I’m not surprised you know all about “petulant”.

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By reynolds, January 19, 2011 at 8:18 pm Link to this comment

of all people to misspell petulant. the red underscore
is meant to indicate a misspelling, you gas bag

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By reynolds, January 19, 2011 at 8:16 pm Link to this comment

suave, you are an asshole

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By rico, suave, January 19, 2011 at 6:59 pm Link to this comment

gerard:

You still haven’t shown that a private prison management company has anything to say about who gets thrown in jail and who gets released. Of course if there was less “product”, the companies would make less money! So they lay off an unnecessary guard and costs come back into line with income. That’s econ 101.

If anything, it seems to me that a public employee-run jail would have a bigger stake in keeping the prison population up, since it’s impossible to fire a redundant, unionized guard. The cost per “product” would rise as the guard-to-prisoner ratio increased.

Private companies, who are paid per unit of “product” have the the flexibility to better control costs, so would be cheaper for the state in the long run.

And if prisons are a growing business, it’s not because they’re run by private contractors, it’s because more criminals are being thrown in jail. We can agree all day long that lots of people are thrown in jail for stupid reasons, but that has absolutely nothing to do with who runs the jail.

“when you ship them out you lose money”. Again, you make it sound like Acme Prison Management Inc, has some say in who comes and goes. They don’t. The courts do. Nor do they have any influence on rehab programs or recidivism.

Did I address your questions? I know you don’t like my answers, but I tried to at least answer them.

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By gerard, January 19, 2011 at 5:50 pm Link to this comment

Rico:  Are you insinuating that private prison management companies have some say in who is put on their guest lists or how long they stay?

Counter-question:  Do you think that private corporate-run prisons would stay in business if they had fewer and fewer victims to use to extract money from state and national governments? (Fact is, it’s a “growing business.”)

From a business point of view, prisoners are a “product”. The only difference between them and
widgets or AK47s is that when you ship them out you lose money. That means that rehabilitation programs are a “waste of money” and recidivism is “good for business.” 

So much for the “war on crime.”  How twisted can people get?

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By Morpheus, January 19, 2011 at 5:47 pm Link to this comment

When you’ve had enough - come and see us…

Join the Revolution
Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( http://www.revolution2.osixs.org )

We don’t have to live like this anymore. “Spread the News”

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By RayLan, January 19, 2011 at 1:42 pm Link to this comment

So much froth and foment about the deficit aka government out of control spending to hide the cruel fact that our economy went bust under the strain of unregulated capitalist monetary speculation. Nobody wailed about the deficit during the Bush era, because the effects of the Wall Street malfeasance hadn’t yet come to full fruition. But since the sky began to fall and Wall Street was benignly rescued by Right-Left wing uhh for want of a better word - government - now government can serve the convenient dual purpose of being scapegoat without sacrificing the greedy vested interets.

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By rico, suave, January 19, 2011 at 11:54 am Link to this comment

Shenon:

“ardee’s logic is impeccable.”

What logic? There was no argument there, just another petulent diatribe against yours truly.

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By rico, suave, January 19, 2011 at 11:51 am Link to this comment

ardee:

Sorry for using ““death tax”“. I put it in quotes for irony, which you obviously missed.

I said, “...since Buffet is giving his money to charity, it will escape the “death tax”. ... That foregone revenue…”

which any casual observer might think means the very same thing you said:

“...if Buffet gives away his money to charity, there is nothing left to tax…”

Who said ANYTHING about family farms!! Where did that come from? Talk about deflection and obfuscation!

We were talking about where Buffet’s money will go, not the Estate Tax!

I said yesterday, “If Buffet really wants to contribute to a specific social need, why can’t he just contribute directly to it through a charity, rather than filter it through government bureaucracy, which dilutes it with their overhead?”

And you responded,

“That Mr. Buffet made an initial contribution of two billion dollars, with the contract specifically calling for it to be spent completely in five years on charitable giving along with an additional 5% from the Gates Foundation as well seems to escape this poster’s notice.”

Which any casual reader would interpret to mean that YOU believe, or want the reader to believe, that Buffet is giving his money to the government, albeit with stipulations.

Well, you were wrong. I guess one could say, you lied.

And, no I don’t look for power, except over my own life. I just want the government to leave me alone. I’ll provide for the “common good” in my own way. I don’t need progressives to tell me how. You are the one looking for power, over how to spend other people’s money, Buffet’s money for example, over what we can eat, what we can drive, how we educate our kids, etc, etc. I don’t want any of that power, as you do.

And finally, out of any real debating points, you resort to the old tried and true personal attacks.

Nice looking bike, by the way.

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By jonathonk99, January 19, 2011 at 11:17 am Link to this comment

SuperMike1661,

Here’s where I see the problem is.  There’s way too much concern about the
economy.  I could honestly give a shit about the economy because it is not real. 
The ‘economy’ is just slang for Capital Gains and that’s it.  It’d be a cold day in
hell when people on the news turn to discuss the ‘REAL economy’ like how
much a gallon of MILK costs things that matter to ordinary people who aren’t
invested in Goldman Sachs!!!

I don’t want to compete with Low-Wage Chinese Laborers and I don’t think
Americans want to or should have to for that matter.  I don’t give a cent about
U.S. manufactures anymore either.  They are not U.S. manufactures any longer.

What I propose may seem ludicrous to many but are there alternatives?  And in
fact, it’s basically the advice THEY are giving Americans, which is to forget
about getting a job and start your own business.  All I am saying is 1.) give
peace a chance & 2.) Let’s Create our own market, our own economy, our own
currency, our own manufacturers w/o the use of China, Saudi Arabia, K-Street, 
the Federal Reserve, and the rest of the Corporate-Worshipping Slave-State
Entities.  We have the brains, and the man-power so what’s stopping people
other than politics?  These people turned their backs on us now it’s time we do
the same.  BOYCOTT!!

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By Leefeller, January 19, 2011 at 10:26 am Link to this comment

Well done Mike, nice distillation, it is refreshing to see the process or formula for the problem, even when one already knows the answer, but with out knowing how they came to the answer.

........

Mike comment:

“Put another way, the way that US Corporate Media would NEVER PUT IT: why do we allow US corporations that have huge interests in NOT seeing the Unites States do well in Trade, spend money effecting elections and laws of the United
States?”

Quick answer: Chamber pot!

Opportunism as stated above, suggests nothing more than hawks watching the chicken coop, with the help of those typical, easily manipulated against their own best interests chickens.

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By SuperMike1661, January 19, 2011 at 8:25 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous

I like your post but also I am concerned that you actually believe the democrats need to spend money in countering a potent PsyOp by the Right.

The Right has only gained a majority in the House. Therefore there is NO possibility that it can reverse the existing Medical bill, “ObamaCare”.... at least for the next few years. (given the bias against change that is in the Senate’s filibuster rule… OBAMACARE will not be changed significantly EVER… most likely.  So why would the Corporate Media hint to us differently?)

Yet Huckabee spends serious dollars on the PsyOp. Why do you think that is?

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By SuperMike1661, January 19, 2011 at 8:05 am Link to this comment

truthdig3

also you want to think about two issues a little more maybe.

1) Easy is that the Treasury Dept. does not want the Balance of Payments between the United States and the PRC to be negative. However I think your point is that the USG DOES want Dollars that are held in China to be used to buy USG securities.  Is that correct?

2) Trickier is that the USG currently believes that the Dollar is TOO STRONG vs. the Yuan…. and USG wants to LOWER the value of the dollar vs. the Yuan.  The USG wants the PRC to STRENGTHEN the value of the Yuan vs. the Dollar.  Yes?

Comment: The fact that China SELLS us more goods and services than we BUY from it, is a huge negative factor for the USG NOT because it is happening, but because it does not appear to EVER be going away. This means that the PRC has the United States at a permanent disadvantage.  Today NO ONE knows how to correct this imbalance, therefore China never stops adding to the US Imbalance of Trade.  The question you need to think about: Do these huge Corporations that spend gigantic pools of dollars in US elections really care about the destiny of the US? 

Put another way, the way that US Corporate Media would NEVER PUT IT: why do we allow US corporations that have huge interests in NOT seeing the Unites States do well in Trade, spend money effecting elections and laws of the United
States?

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By truedigger3, January 19, 2011 at 7:52 am Link to this comment

Re: By SuperMike1661, January 19 at 11:50 am

SuperMike1661 wrote:
“truedigger3

What do you think is the eventual outcome of this movement of jobs to China? Do you see a final state of the US economy?

Think about what makes the PRC so attractive to Stateless Corporations. Do you see anything there of interest?

Or…do these corporations have MORE or LESS allegiance to China than the US? “
————————————————————
SuperMike1661,

NO. These corporations are only loyal to where the profits are better. Some of them are moving more and more of their manfacturing plants in China to Vietnam and Bangladesh etc etc where there are more profits!!!.
I talked about what make China attractive to those corporations which is very cheap disciplined labor coupled with lax to nonexistent or unenforced labor/environmental/safety regulations which help more in cutting costs.
If this trend continues, the US middle class and upward mobility will almost vanish coupled with wide spread very poor living standards, unemployment and poverty and possible social unrest coupled with increased police oppression and worse!.
I will be distracted by a personal business and I will not be reading or writing posts after this morning for few weeks.

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By Shenonymous, January 19, 2011 at 7:40 am Link to this comment

ardee’s logic is impeccable. 

Yup, 5 yups, death tax and job-killing health care bill.  The
Republicans are masterful at using fear mongering propaganda
metaphors.  It was always Estate Tax until the uppah five hunnert
kicked and screamed so much you’d think they were dying.  Politics
is all in the language.  Just remember, always remember, never
forget, Newt’s Contract for America!  Pearls of Parables!  Yup, it
was a cabal to belt up the saddle tighter for the sole benefit of the
conservatives.  Yup, the Democrats just ain’t got no creative slogan
maker folks on their team.  For instance, has anyone been seeing
Huckabee’s ad campaign to decimate the health care bill?  It airs on
mainstream about 20-30 times a day!  Yup, eventually, you know, if
you hear a thing enough times, you begin ta baleeeves it.  Now this
Huckabee lying shit has been going on for weeks, where in the hell
does he get the money to do this?  Ah you’d better believe the medical
industry is helping out.  No?  Yet, the Democrats have yet to put out a
countervailing ad in support of the health care bill that is helping tens
of millions of underprivileged.  If this isn’t political cow crap, nothing
is!

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By SuperMike1661, January 19, 2011 at 7:20 am Link to this comment

Chezzuzzz ardee

Leave him a piece of right wing as to sit on when he types his response.

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By SuperMike1661, January 19, 2011 at 7:00 am Link to this comment

truedigger3

No. My questions are not attacks.  They are just questions.  I read your post and thought it was a remarkable piece of analysis.

Please take my questions at face value.  I think that you are close to a fundamental insight.

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By truedigger3, January 19, 2011 at 6:56 am Link to this comment

Re: By SuperMike1661, January 19 at 11:20 am

SuperMike1661,

My post implies that the US corporate executives will make more money by tranferring more and more manufacturing to China.
So, my post is not disputing your two points, but agreeing with them, that is why I am puzzled and asking you about reading my post carefully.
Why don’t you read the posts carefully before jumping to conclusion and going on the attack. What is the matter with you????!!!

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By ardee, January 19, 2011 at 6:54 am Link to this comment

rico, suave, January 18 at 3:06 pm Link to this comment

ardee:

Now of course, since Buffet is giving his money to charity, it will escape the “death tax”. (Or Buffet has some pretty incompetent tax lawyers working for him!) Damn him. That foregone revenue could have bought us a few brand new Abrahms tanks!

Typical obfuscation from the usual source. A shame that you do not see how you embarrass yourself repeatedly.

Do you mean the Estate Tax, rather than that absurd propagandized bullshite you refer to, that which lies about the effects of that tax upon our nation. I might set your right wing ass straight.

The Estate Tax affects about 500 families a year, thus the crap about losing family farms is simply that, crap. The reason for having said tax is to prevent huge fortunes from getting larger over time, until the wealth of this nation is completely held in private hands, a good thing to you obviously.

The Right, typified by those like you for whom truth or fact is something flexible, to be used to gain or keep power only, has made that tax into something it is not, has threatened us all with confiscation of our gift to our children. They, and you, lie.

Certainly even an agendized and fanatical partisan like yourself can see plainly that, if Buffet gives away his money to charity, there is nothing left to tax…Now, did you have a point? Aside from the one under your hat of course.

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By SuperMike1661, January 19, 2011 at 6:50 am Link to this comment

truedigger3

I think that you are onto something, but it is possible that you have not pushed your analysis far enough.

What do you think is the eventual outcome of this movement of jobs to China? Do you see a final state of the US economy?

Is it possible that the driving force behind the Corporate move to China is the abandonment of the United States by Corporations that are STATELESS?

Think about what makes the PRC so attractive to Stateless Corporations. Do you see anything there of interest?

Or…do these corporations have MORE or LESS allegiance to China than the US?

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By SuperMike1661, January 19, 2011 at 6:42 am Link to this comment

truedigger3


can you comment on my questions? or… answer them?

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By truedigger3, January 19, 2011 at 6:38 am Link to this comment

Re: By SuperMike1661, January 19 at 11:20 am

SuperMike1661,

And your point is??? Did you read my post through or are you speed reading???!! Again what is your point???

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By truedigger3, January 19, 2011 at 6:29 am Link to this comment

Re: By skimohawk, January 19 at 10:29 am

skimohawk,

Rico and his ilk know what they are saying is illogical and harmful to the common people, but they don’t care. All what they care about is shrinking the government to cut taxes and transfer more wealth to the super-rich and more business to the corporations by privatising more and more of the government functions.
He and his ilk were crying and holloring about the budget deficits and then passed a huge tax cuts that made these deficits worse!!! Is that make sense!!??
Also, they were crying and hollering about the “short fall” in the Social Security Trust Fund and then CUT FICA TAX and that will reduce the revenues to that Trust Fund!!  Is that make sense. Go figure.

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By SuperMike1661, January 19, 2011 at 6:24 am Link to this comment

kulu

I love your classic analysis but allow me one question: regarding “Bargaining Power”, if Corporations can move ever more sophisticated jobs to the PRC and whole industries have moved, is there ANY BARGAINING POWER left to the worker?

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By SuperMike1661, January 19, 2011 at 6:20 am Link to this comment

truedigger3

Does this “bullshitting” that you have explained address the fact that Executives of US corporations gather EVER INCREASING pay packages as they work in concert with the Communist Party of China in building a GREATER CHINA? 


And also, does this “bullshitting” that you have discovered also reveal that the Owners of these corporations continue to gain footholds in China when there Corporate Robots create evermore jobs THERE and evermore broken workers in the West?

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kulu's avatar

By kulu, January 19, 2011 at 6:15 am Link to this comment

Rico,

Your argument it seems is simplistic. There are a great many reasons why people’s earning potentials differ. Circumstances of birth, intellect,location to mention just a few things. And even within professions earnings differ greatly. A doctor in India or even Europe won’t earn the same as the equivalent in the US. And differences are changing all the time CEOs used to get about 25x the pay of an average worker, now its about 300x. And then of course there is inflation - my $1000 tucked away 20 years ago is not worth the same now and if I took a few risks and put it into a home or the share market it might very well be worth far less. What am I to do then?

And don’t forget bargaining power. Capital (ie profit makers) have far greater bargaining power than does labour and by God do they use it.

So the unfortunates in this world and the US in particular are being squeezed more and more.

And there is another point…It has been shown that more equal societies are better off on nearly every measure than are less equal ones like the US. Google “The Spirit Level” a book by Richard Wilkinson on the exhaustive research done on this topic.

I’m not surprised that America is becoming more and more dysfunctional - its neo liberal ideology has guided them to this point.

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By SuperMike1661, January 19, 2011 at 6:12 am Link to this comment

skimohawk and rico

As you explain to yourselves the sources and corruption of Corporate power in the United States, please allow me to ask you, either or both, to explain to me one action of the Corporate Giants that seems, on its face, mysterious.

It is, I assume, indisputable today, that large Corporations have seized control of All media other than the tiniest creators and distributors. In this regard, and as a salute to our honored guest from China:  Why do you think that these stupefying media giants do not report on the largest ONGOING crime in the history of the world, the slaughter of over 65 Million men, women and babies by the Communist Party of China?

I mean, I do not push you on this, but it might be interesting to pull on this little thread… this little mountain of bodies over there at the side of the room.

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By truedigger3, January 19, 2011 at 6:11 am Link to this comment

In this thread and in other threads, I read a lot of mumbo jumbo about the “Chinese competition” and the “manipulation” of the Chinese of their currency and its effect on keeping the value of the dollar high resulting in “trade disadvantage” for the US.
This is all Corporate America/Wall St. bullshitting!.
Most of the Chinese products that are imported from China are US products that are manufactured in China in manufacturing plants that are owned by US Corporations in partnership with the Chinese. This is done to take advantage of the cheap labor in China and very lax, and not even enforced, labor/environmental/safety regulations. Most of these manufacturing plants are nothing but sweat shop operations where workers sometimes work 6/12 and sometimes more hours week after week in very poor unsafe working conditions.
So, there is no “competition” and there is no trade disadvantage. It is all bullshitting.
The current dismal unemployment situation in the US will never improve as this trend continues where the US corporations shut its manufacturing plants in the US and layoff workers and go and re-open it in China with Chinese labor!!!
The US Treasury Dept. loves that, and also loves to keep the value of Dollar high, because the Chinese use some of the money they earn from these US manufacturing plants and buy US Treasury Bonds and in doing that, they help finance the budget deficits!!!

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By skimohawk, January 19, 2011 at 5:29 am Link to this comment

rico, as another member noted, where there is money to be made, there is corruption.
As you noted earlier, private businesses are in business to make a profit. The more the better. I am in full agreement with you there.

It is logical and reasonable to assume that with a privatized prison system a greater inmate population would offer a greater profit potential, creating an incentive to increase inmate populations.
Do you seriously see that as a good thing?

As for your idea of privatizing the educational system: who pays for it?
The state?
The customer- the pupil?
If you are proposing the latter, what about those who cannot afford to pay? Shall we simply kick ‘em to the curb and allow them to be uneducated?

Are you thinking these proposals through? Or do you just believe they sound like good ideas?

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By SuperMike1661, January 19, 2011 at 2:02 am Link to this comment

Your erudition is impressive.

However, boycotting monopoly suppliers is only effective if the commodity or product being boycotted has a functional substitute. 

Most importantly, the United States, by allowing the PRC to achieve monopoly status in many electronic products has terminated US manufacture’s potential for reentering the lost markets.

The most oft cited case of an effective consumer boycott is the operation against Japanese car makers in the 70s.  In this case, the US makers could offer fully competitive products.

A practical case at hand here is computers. There are only 65,000 workers left in the US computer industry… less than before the industry took off in the 60s.  At one time there were over a million such workers in the US.

Of course your expertise could expand my thinking on this?

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By jonathonk99, January 19, 2011 at 1:27 am Link to this comment

SuperMike1661,

“By investing there, these Corporate traitors to their home country make your
foolish suggestion of Personal Boycott meaningless.  THERE ARE NOW NO
OTHER SOURCES FOR MOST PRC PRODUCTS.”

——————————————————-

You make no sense at all.  If there are NO OTHER SOURCES FOR MOST PRC
PRODUCTS than American Markets, than explain how a nation-wide consumer
boycott (not a ‘Personal Boycott’) isn’t a great idea. 

The revolutionary power behind the Consumer Boycott was one of the first
lessons taught in Fundamental Economics or did you skip class that day? 
Again stop focusing on what China can do for America but instead focus on
what you can do for America.

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By truedigger3, January 19, 2011 at 1:02 am Link to this comment

Re: SuperMike1661, January 19 at 5:24 am Link to this comment

SuperMike1661 wrote:
“truedigger3

To clarify then. The sharks that you cite are the NYSE and London exchanges? You’re are saying that the markets on which the Saudis trade ARE the sharks that will eat them?

Thank you for the information.”
———————————————————-
SuperMike1661,

Close, but not exactly. What I am trying to say is that the Saudis have neither the wealth nor the PULL that match the wealth and PULL of the Titans of Wall St. and London Financial Districts.
PULL= lurking military power, just in case!!!

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By truedigger3, January 19, 2011 at 12:29 am Link to this comment

rico, suave, January 18 at 11:35 pm:

rico wrote:
“Higher prison populations = greater profits.”

Are you insinuating that private prison management companies have some say in who is put on their guest lists or how long they stay? ...”

————————————————-

rico,

Where is corruption, the anwer is yes.
Few months back, two Pennsylvania judges were arrested for taking kickbacks for each juvenille they sent to prison. Most of these juvenilles had very minor offenses and everyone was shocked when they got prison terms!!.
I assume there are many similar cases around the country that have not been discovered?

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By SuperMike1661, January 19, 2011 at 12:24 am Link to this comment

truedigger3

To clarify then. The sharks that you cite are the NYSE and London exchanges? You’re are saying that the markets on which the Saudis trade ARE the sharks that will eat them?

Thank you for the information.

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By truedigger3, January 19, 2011 at 12:08 am Link to this comment

Re: By SuperMike1661, January 19 at 1:17 am,

“Also, who are these sharks you cite? Be specific. No one is more sharky than the Saudis who get the best (Goldman) advice in the world.”
————————————————————————

SuperMike1661,

With all due respect, you don’t know what you are talking about!! How about the sharks of Wall St. and London finacial district???!! How about Tokyo and Shanghai??
The Saudi are wealthy yes, but in no way they got the wealth, backed by military power, to affect the world global financing. They are just small planet revolving around Wall St. sun!!
Did you get it???!! You are the one who should develop his political analytical skills. You have a lot to learn!.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 18, 2011 at 11:52 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie:

The problem with private prison companies is that they are lousy investments, and there’s not a publicly traded one that’s a good stock to buy or own.  They are generally poorly run and most Wall Street analysts don’t waste their time covering them.

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By SuperMike1661, January 18, 2011 at 11:50 pm Link to this comment

jonathonk

As a final attempt to awaken you from your slumber, think about fundamental economics.

If as you say, manufacturing is not a significant part of the US economy, how do you propose that the United States continue to defend itself and its allies with advanced systems if it has no significant industrial base?

I will not discuss the issue further.  There are very simple issues of Basic Economics and Industrial Competitiveness that you are unfamiliar with.

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By SuperMike1661, January 18, 2011 at 11:41 pm Link to this comment

jonathonk

My “obsession” with the PRC is based on its ruthless use of slave labor to subvert EVERY important part of the American economy.

And the PRC is also the Nexus of “American” Corporation’s attack on free workers in the entire West. By investing there, these Corporate traitors to their home country make your foolish suggestion of Personal Boycott meaningless.  THERE ARE NOW NO OTHER SOURCES FOR MOST PRC PRODUCTS.

Wake up and do your research for god sake.

Try to learn more about what is happening.  YOU are the future… sadly.

good luck.

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