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The Christian Fascists Are Growing Stronger

Posted on Jun 7, 2010
Truthdig collage based on a White House photo by Pete Souza

By Chris Hedges

Tens of millions of Americans, lumped into a diffuse and fractious movement known as the Christian right, have begun to dismantle the intellectual and scientific rigor of the Enlightenment. They are creating a theocratic state based on “biblical law,” and shutting out all those they define as the enemy. This movement, veering closer and closer to traditional fascism, seeks to force a recalcitrant world to submit before an imperial America. It champions the eradication of social deviants, beginning with homosexuals, and moving on to immigrants, secular humanists, feminists, Jews, Muslims and those they dismiss as “nominal Christians”—meaning Christians who do not embrace their perverted and heretical interpretation of the Bible. Those who defy the mass movement are condemned as posing a threat to the health and hygiene of the country and the family. All will be purged.

The followers of deviant faiths, from Judaism to Islam, must be converted or repressed. The deviant media, the deviant public schools, the deviant entertainment industry, the deviant secular humanist government and judiciary and the deviant churches will be reformed or closed. There will be a relentless promotion of Christian “values,” already under way on Christian radio and television and in Christian schools, as information and facts are replaced with overt forms of indoctrination. The march toward this terrifying dystopia has begun. It is taking place on the streets of Arizona, on cable news channels, at tea party rallies, in the Texas public schools, among militia members and within a Republican Party that is being hijacked by this lunatic fringe.

Elizabeth Dilling, who wrote “The Red Network” and was a Nazi sympathizer, is touted as required reading by trash-talk television hosts like Glenn Beck. Thomas Jefferson, who favored separation of church and state, is ignored in Christian schools and soon will be ignored in Texas public school textbooks. The Christian right hails the “significant contributions” of the Confederacy. Sen. Joseph McCarthy, who led the anti-communist witch hunts of the 1950s, has been rehabilitated, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is defined as part of the worldwide battle against Islamic terror. Legislation like the new Jim Crow laws of Arizona is being considered by 17 other states.

The rise of this Christian fascism, a rise we ignore at our peril, is being fueled by an ineffectual and bankrupt liberal class that has proved to be unable to roll back surging unemployment, protect us from speculators on Wall Street, or save our dispossessed working class from foreclosures, bankruptcies and misery. The liberal class has proved useless in combating the largest environmental disaster in our history, ending costly and futile imperial wars or stopping the corporate plundering of the nation. And the gutlessness of the liberal class has left it, and the values it represents, reviled and hated.

The Democrats have refused to repeal the gross violations of international and domestic law codified by the Bush administration. This means that Christian fascists who achieve power will have the “legal” tools to spy on, arrest, deny habeas corpus to, and torture or assassinate American citizens—as does the Obama administration.


Square, Site wide
Those who remain in a reality-based world often dismiss these malcontents as buffoons and simpletons. They do not take seriously those, like Beck, who pander to the primitive yearnings for vengeance, new glory and moral renewal. Critics of the movement continue to employ the tools of reason, research and fact to challenge the absurdities propagated by creationists who think they will float naked into the heavens when Jesus returns to Earth. The magical thinking, the flagrant distortion in interpreting the Bible, the contradictions that abound within the movement’s belief system and the laughable pseudoscience, however, are impervious to reason. We cannot convince those in the movement to wake up. It is we who are asleep. 

Those who embrace this movement see life as an epic battle against forces of evil and Satanism. The world is black and white. They need to feel, even if they are not, that they are victims surrounded by dark and sinister groups bent on their destruction. They need to believe they know the will of God and can fulfill it, especially through violence. They need to sanctify their rage, a rage that lies at the core of the ideology. They seek total cultural and political domination. They are using the space within the open society to destroy it. These movements work within the confining rules of the secular state because they have no choice. The intolerance they promote is muted in the public assurances of their slickest operators. Given enough power, and they are working hard to get it, any such cooperation will vanish. The demand for total control and for a Christian nation and the refusal to permit any dissent are on display within their inner sanctums. These pastors have established within their churches tiny, despotic fiefdoms, and they seek to replicate these little tyrannies on a larger scale.

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Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, June 10, 2010 at 3:51 pm Link to this comment

By MarthaA, June 10 at 7:19 pm #
“Looks like Chris Hedges is giving the Christian Fascists more
credit than they actually deserve.” 

You are perceptive MarthaA.  But doesn’t Hedges always give more
credit that its worth to whatever it is he is elevating for discussion?
That was just a rhetorical question.  He does provide the best food
for argument though given most of his articles generate 8 or so
pages of comments.  He hits our reaction nerve pretty well.  I have
to give him that much.  Or is that sophistry at its utmost?  Some
sophists are more skilled at sophistry than others.

anaman51, June 10 at 6:20 pm – Now how would an electronic ghost
twist your arm and force your keyboard fingers to visit Truthdig?  Just
opt out and you won’t have to lose any more sleep.  And we won’t have
to read your pansy whining.  Oh, by the way, there is a Truthdig Anti-
Nausea Pill you can purchase through the Truthdig store! And they also
sell lidded drivel cups so you can recycle the drivel you collect.

Good grief there are a lot of whining thumbsuckers on these forums. 
Yeowie Kazowie.

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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, June 10, 2010 at 3:19 pm Link to this comment

Looks like Chris Hedges is giving the Christian Fascists more credit than they actually deserve.  It appears the Christian Fascists are losing steam as per the following posts:

The conservative, corporatist DLC Republican-Lite Democrats, like Blanche Lincoln,  the Clinton’s and President Obama in his support of corporatist Blanche Lincoln, who has never stood for anything that would be beneficial for the populace.

Religious faced corporatist governance with corporate profit being the only criteria for government IS fascism, that is all fascism is, and it works well with socialism for the rich and private capitalism for the populace.

Somehow the populace are going to have to work together as a complete 70% unit, if the populace is going to turn corporatism out of our government, similar to the way the Iranians got rid of Shaw Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, that the United States controlled as dictator in Iran. To accomplish the task, all the working populace everywhere joined together in a strike and didn’t show up for work at the police stations, in any of the government, in the military, and in private industry and it shut the country of Iran down and the people were able to throw the corruption out of their government at that time.  In fact, he ran away.  It worked, and the populace were able to get a different government, the only thing that they did wrong was not be prepared for liberal governance, and the Conservative Right-Wing Religious EXTREMISTS took over, which would be just as bad for the United States as it is for Iran.

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By Night-Gaunt, June 10, 2010 at 3:02 pm Link to this comment

anaman51, June 10 at 6:20 pm #

What a collection of drivel.

Don’t you know that just flittering in and depositing your offal add nothing to the commentary? A useless maneuver if there ever was one. Drivel starts with you.

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By anaman51, June 10, 2010 at 2:20 pm Link to this comment

What a collection of drivel. Four long web pages of mostly fools saying mostly nothing, as you try to out-jeezify each other with bigger and bigger quotations from that stupid book. Yes, you’re all so holy I can barely stand it. There’s enough pomposity and sacred arrogance in these posts to float an ark. Why don’t you all bless each other and say some prayers to the ceiling and call it a day?

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By Night-Gaunt, June 10, 2010 at 2:20 pm Link to this comment

That mangled quote you attribute to Stalin came from Marx.

The word you mangled was “opiate” which Marx was just making an observation because the suffering people had nothing from their environment to help them. He and Fredrich Engels wanted to change that so that the godly had something more real and reliable to have their backs like owning the means of production instead of being enslaved to the owners of that production. Some interpret that to mean that Marx/Engels despised religion. I don’t know where they got that idea unless it was from their own selves. Since under Stalin he and the Bolsheviks owned the means of production not the worker. So it was anti-Marx/Engels was the Great USSR/CCCP empire (1917-1991) was a slap to every one who wanted freedom. All the believers went underground till that fateful day when the came out and showed their ikons. You can’t ;force Atheism or any other ism on people who really believe. Just ask the hidden Jews in Spain and Mexico to this day.

What else will you get wrong John Ellis?

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By Ephraiyim, June 10, 2010 at 1:50 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, June 10 at 4:50 pm
I agree that there is a feminine side to God’s nature. That makes sense since The Creator made both men and women there would have had to be both a male and female side to God.
We know, for instance that the Hebrew word for Holy Spirit Ruach ha Quodesh is in a feminine form.
I wonder about the misogyny thing. Most of my friends are women including my wife who is my best friend. Several are pretty strong in their feminism, but none have accused me of that.
I can tell you that before God changed me, (I mean that very literally. I was incapable of escaping the crap I had gotten myself into mentally and physically) there is no doubt that I was a full blown misogynist.
I will consider this and talk to God about it as I do not trust my own heart. “The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked”.
Please forgive me for offending you.

You said earlier that,“To not be atheist is the insanity”.
I guess I would challenge you to check a web site that proves the existence of God with scientific and reasoned points.
Most Atheists I have encountered have, frankly, lacked intellectual honesty when confronted with real evidence for a God. It is hard for any of us to change and atheists are no different in my experience.

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By Night-Gaunt, June 10, 2010 at 1:49 pm Link to this comment

Thirty-seven of the 64 active or senior judges in key Gulf Coast districts in Louisiana, Texas, Alabama, Mississippi and Florida have links to oil, gas and related energy industries, including some who own stocks or bonds in BP PLC, Halliburton or Transocean - and others who regularly list receiving royalties from oil and gas production wells, according to the reports judges must file each year. The AP reviewed 2008 disclosure forms, the most recent available.

That is scary, I wonder how many of them are Christians? How many of them are Dominionists? That is the danger of religion/business/state meldings. “Intangling alliances” as it were.

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By Night-Gaunt, June 10, 2010 at 1:30 pm Link to this comment

By ofersince72, June 10 at 5:01 am #

I don’t view Maddow, Olberman, or Stewart as any less theatrical than Beck, O’Rielly, or Limbaugh, just catering to a different audience that believes that it is more sophisticated but just as easily led by the pied piper.

Then your capacity of discernment is lacking between apples & oranges. For if you actually watched and compared you would find that MSNBC has actual news and analysis unlike FOX NEWS. So that is your problem. I would look into that deficiency. But if you would actually give real information that backs up your oft quoted canard please do.

Also it isn’t right for you to put up 13 in a row separate postings when you could have done it in much less or maybe decide what is important to write, okay? Other wise it is a labor to have to delete them when I get them. Thank you for cooperating.

By John Ellis, June 10 at 12:32 pm #


“Sin is sin and the Bible makes
very clear what those things are.”

Scripture is hand written on ancient Greek manuscripts, and as stated twice in Scripture, actually authored by God the Holy Spirit.

Does that count the Hebrew and Ahramiac of the Old Testament too John Ellis? Also referencing ones self isn’t authoritative, it is tautological and useless.

By John Ellis, June 10 at 1:07 pm #


“I question God all the time…
He only intervenes when He chooses.”

Or there is no god and what happens would happen anyway. It is only humans that perform that mental calculation to explain away a god who isn’t there.

You see, a fascist Christian feels he has a right to question God, and to actually doubt God.

You are talking out of your hat again John they would crucify or burn at the stake, if they had the chance, anyone who would question the unquestionable. (If they get plenary powers they will do it.) For them doubt is a weakness that must be stamped out. Like any dictatorship, you can’t question the reigning authority. Not allowed. [Something the Bible preaches to all non-believers about JHVH.]

By ofersince72, June 10 at 3:10 pm #

The Tennessee Socialist may very well be right,
that there is no hope for our political process,
and we need to throw everything away.!!!!!!!!

Between ofersince72, Tennessee Socialist & John Ellis they can be confusing & destructive enough—-but only to those who lack knowledge and the ability to question intelligently. For all others they are just bothersome.

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By MarthaA, June 10, 2010 at 1:29 pm Link to this comment

Maani, June 10 at 11:55 am,

ofersince72, who surely isn’t trying to deliberately baffle and obfuscate other posters, should be able to get his thoughts together and not post 4-15 one to five or six line posts consecutively, as that type of posting is outrageously inconsiderate of other posters and does keep ones email box full of his small one quarter thought posts; therefore, I agree that ofersince72 should give more thought to his posting.

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By Shenonymous, June 10, 2010 at 1:29 pm Link to this comment

A BFF just sent me this.  The appearance of impropriety is reason
enough to recuse oneself as a judge. So it familiarity with any of the
defendants for any reasaon.  It is unconscionable that more than 50%
of the judges who will adjudicate the oil-spill lawsuits pending against
BP are intricately linked to either BP or the oil industry in some way.

Now what god will take care of this?  The talk here is mundane
compared to this! 50%!?

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By Inherit The Wind, June 10, 2010 at 1:16 pm Link to this comment

John Ellis, June 10 at 3:31 pm #


Inherit The Wind
“The man who says, “Believe…” will next say,
“Believe as I believe or I will kill you.”

But all nations in the northern hemisphere have always
been ruled by rich atheists.  And if the Moslem religion
have never been invented, all of the southern hemisphere
would now be identical to Empire USA, all would be
fascist Christian nations.


This assertion is so patently and laughably false that I’m wondering why your God doesn’t throw a bolt of lightning at you for it! 

I think the only GENUINE Atheists ever to rule in Europe were Nicolai Lenin and Leon Trotsky.  Others paid lip-service to it as Communism demanded Atheism as the “state religion”  but they didn’t believe it. Stalin actually thought himself semi-divine, a gift from God “The Greatest Genius The World Has Ever Seen” or something like that.

So, John Ellis, support that statement.  Show us how Elizabeth I or Phillip II or Harry Truman or Peter The Great were really all Atheists.  Knock yourself out!

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By "G"utless "W"itless Hitler, June 10, 2010 at 1:08 pm Link to this comment

If only we could harness the power of these confusion generators!  We could power our nation just as we fuel the jabbering of The Ellis. 

Let there be LIGHT bulbs!

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By ofersince72, June 10, 2010 at 1:00 pm Link to this comment

Obama writing another check for money we don’t have
for the Palistianians as a fix.  “Here take this and
go back to your getto”.

Which is nothing more than socialism for the rich, buying
more time for the corporate interests in the Middle East
, using tax payers money, and not addressing the core of the problem, which is the thievery by the United States
of Middle East resources using their proxy military and
excuse, Isreal.
Signing that check, when so many are hurting right here
in this country.  Keep paying them off, to your lackies
of Fatah.

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By ofersince72, June 10, 2010 at 12:52 pm Link to this comment

Is the American Public going to demand that our
government lift those sanctions on Iran, and not let
them and the Isreali government lead us into another
war agaiinst a nation holding vast oil reserves?

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By Shenonymous, June 10, 2010 at 12:50 pm Link to this comment

Perhaps you Ephraiyim, June 10 at 4:41 pm are being facetious. 
Or, that is the most blatantly sexist and ignorant comment ever said
about a god.  What a crock of crap.  Don’t you know?  If there ever
was a god it would have to be female?  It would be a GODDESS! Only
misogynist men could ever make that mistake.  Search your own
heart, and you will see.

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By Shenonymous, June 10, 2010 at 12:43 pm Link to this comment

Atheists are not always talking about GOD, fool!  We talk
about the weather, or what ass let the oil well burst its bubble, or
why the blackberries from Mexico are so much better than
anywhere else.  We do make fun of those who dwell so much on
the Bible who are really jackasses in disguise as human beings. 
We can show remarkably well what is said in the Bible that contradicts
everything the jackasses say.  We love life, we do not hate it like you
do.  That is why you hate and fear us so much.  We are the only ones
who can erode your delusions.  Other religionists cannot do that. 

You, John Ellis, are much too sensitive to the word, and in this case, the
word God.  You make a categorical mistake and those are the worse
kind.  You make the mistake that atheists have a religion.  That they
have none is what really throws you for a loop.  So indoctrinated are
you in the notion of religion.  You drown yourself in it.  Maybe that is
why you always sound so loopie.  You are gasping for air.  Your
morality is lame.  On all crucial moral issues, believing or not believing
in God changes nothing of great significance.  And whether you have a
religion or not, nothing can exempt you from having to respect the
lives, freedom, and dignity of other people.

You show nothing but disdain for all others. You fester in your own
conceits.  It is not religion that makes caring superior to hatred,
generosity to egotism and justice to injustice as shown throughout
history.  The religious have carried out the worst atrocities in the name
of their god, and the non-religious the greatest of charity.  That
Religion possibly has helped human understand these values is
certainly to be considered for there have been great works done though
the churches.  But by no means is it implied they are the sole
commanders or carriers of such values, or that they are even sufficient
to administer them.  Atheists are just as likely to be virtuous as
believers are likely not to be.

To not be atheist is the insanity.

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By Ephraiyim, June 10, 2010 at 12:41 pm Link to this comment

If you really desire to get close to Him this is the way: “Those who seek Him will find Him if they seek Him with all their heart”.
Perhaps you are being rhetorical. Perhaps you are being facetious. In any case, He can be known if you really want to know Him.
Most people have too much pride to get very close as it produces great humility when one encounters the Creator of all things.
That level of pure Love is so overwhelming it can, initially, cause you to pull back. If you get there don’t pull back. Resist that inclination and crawl up into Daddy’s arms. You will never know such joy and peace as when you are sitting in Daddy’s lap with your head on His shoulder. He loves you so much. 

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By MarthaA, June 10, 2010 at 12:36 pm Link to this comment

John Ellis, June 10 at 1:23 pm,

(Page 1 of 2)

I see that a day of life is more than I deserve, because I should have been the one hanging on that cross, instead of the sinless and perfect Son of God, but since God knew me before I was born, and knew I was born in sin and would not want to die, but would defend myself to the best of my ability and would have been whipped and let go, which would have made eternal salvation for the human race an impossibility; Jesus, the sinless and perfect Son of God, suffered, shed his blood and died on that cross in my place, and I fully an unequivocally accept God’s sacrifice for me.  I know that by the Grace of God I live.  I know that it was difficult for Jesus, but Jesus paid the price for me and with all my heart I thankfully accept the free gift of life that Jesus purchased for me;  therefore in Christ I live and have my being and by the Grace of God I will continue to live and have my being until I have fulfilled the butterfly effect of what God wants me to do.  My job in Christ is not to deny Jesus or stifle the Spirit of Christ that came to live in me whenever I accepted Jesus’ sacrifice for me, which I do not.

But, I do not think I am the LIGHT.  The Spirit of God via Jesus lives in me, but only God is the LIGHT, because even though the LIGHT lives in me, I am still human, and subject to sin, though I try not to sin, I am still a sinner saved by Grave.

There is no respect of persons with God. ——Romans 2:11

Consider the following from Romans 2:17-29 and Romans 3:1-12 of the New Testament: 

“Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; and art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a LIGHT of them which are in darkness, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which has the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

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By MarthaA, June 10, 2010 at 12:33 pm Link to this comment

John Ellis, June 10 at 1:23 pm,

(Page 2 of 2)

Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? Thou that preachest a man should not steal, doest thou steal?  Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery?  Thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?  Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?  For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 

For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law:  but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 

Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost trangress the law?

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 

Much every way:  chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 

For what if some did not believe?  Shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?  God forbid:  yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou are judged.

But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say?  Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)  God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?

For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,)  Let us do evil, that good may come?  whose damnation is just.

What then?  are we better than they?  No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.  They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.”

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By Shenonymous, June 10, 2010 at 11:34 am Link to this comment

Confusion Generators – Yellow stickie note:  Confusion Generators
are only confusing for those whose minds are already confused. 
Those with a grasp of reality, no problemmos.

Exactly how does one get an up close and personal relationship with
what cannot be known?  Where exactly can one sidle up?  Where is the
edge of God?  How many edges does God have?  Is God’s physique
round as Leefeller’s?  (He is 3ft x 3ft x 300 lbs.)  M’thinks God is A
Conjectured Invisible?  And ACI.  Does God have an email address?
.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)? I sent an email to God.  I said I was just wondering
how he was?  It seemed moot to ask ‘if’ he was. LOL I heard curiosity
killed a cat.  I have not received it back yet as Daemon Mail hahaha. 
Hey man, y’all can send God emails now!  They might be more effective
than prayers and oblations.

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By ofersince72, June 10, 2010 at 11:28 am Link to this comment

Hedges might as well go back writing for the
  New York Times, but I doubt they even want him now.

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By ofersince72, June 10, 2010 at 11:26 am Link to this comment

The Democrats couldn’t find a way , while they had the
super majority to get a straight up and down vote
on a bill that would let laborers organize?
The Republicans always found a way to get around a
The Democrats didn’t want that bill to become law, which
was evident with Obama’s and Clinton’s support for
Blanche Lincoln. Yes they could have made that bill law
if they had wanted toooooo.
Hedges dosen’t expose that kind of stuff.

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By Inherit The Wind, June 10, 2010 at 11:16 am Link to this comment

John Ellis:

It’s not what you don’t know that bothers me: It’s what you “know” that ain’t so.

You preach humorlessly and without any sense of grace.


The man who says “Believe as I believe or God will damn you” will next say “Believe as I believe or I will kill you.”

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By ofersince72, June 10, 2010 at 11:10 am Link to this comment

The Tennessee Socialist may very well be right,
that there is no hope for our political process,
and we need to throw everthing away.!!!!!!!!

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By Joan, June 10, 2010 at 11:08 am Link to this comment

John Ellis,

If someone wants to understand the grandeur of the Rockies, he does not limit himself to reading a book. He goes to Colorado and spends time in the Rocky Mountains.

Likewise, God’s wonder is not captured by a book. You cheat yourself and God if you do not have an up close and personal relationship with Him.

Ephraiyim’s posts are right on the mark. I’d recognize that God of his anyhwere.

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By balkas, June 10, 2010 at 10:55 am Link to this comment

It seems to me that some people [un]wittingly confuse governance or rule, with guidance-tutoring.
At one time, we had no rule or rulers; we had guidance-teachings.

Being ruled and thus automaticly misguided-deceived, is not the same as being taught or leading people by timocratic guides-tutors-teachers.

We do not have that in any asocialist land. Once one rules another, it amounts to a diktat.
And even if we never had guidance [i don’t know how we cld have avoided it in order to survive], it still does not mean we cannot have it now.

But, of course, we are never gonna get it,unles we at least ask for it and at most bleed for it!

Yes folks, this simplicity, that all we need is guidance that every child wld understand, is all we need to ask or fight for.tnx

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By ofersince72, June 10, 2010 at 10:47 am Link to this comment

What Hedges is being a party of, along with Robert
Scheer, Eugene Robinson, E.J. and few others has been
a direct attack on our democracy, which is no longer.
If you can’t see what they have done over the last
four months then you are blind.
They have alienated a great number of disgusted voters
from ever wanting to vote Democrat again, many of who
helped get Obama into White House., Going right along with
the Fox and MSNBC, CNN game of divide and conquer.
Acting like they didn’t know what this tea bag game the
major media was playing was all about. As I have mentioned
on several occasions, I live in perhaps the most conservative district in our country and the hate for
democrats was never as widespread and divided as Beck
made it appear and the so called liberals attacked back.
It is now. Yes there were many, white folks close to
retirement that lost , and were looking for leaders that
would challenge the status quo of our political process.
Beck and the conservatives jumped on it.
Maddow et. al.  played elitism.
If there was ever a voting block that could have been
won by the left it was them.  Hedges, Robinson, Scheer
pushed them away, working for the machinery that has a
vested interest in keeping America divided and voting
centrist, either , dem or pub.
Hedges , you are guilty as the rest….........
and have a hell of a lot of nerve talking about liberal

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By Maani, June 10, 2010 at 10:45 am Link to this comment


Your June 10 12:06 post is amazing and a breath of fresh air.  Thank you.  I agree with Joan: you and I know the same God.


“Miracles are logical impossibilities unless God is imperfect.”

No, miracles are only such because they violate the laws of science thus far known to humankind.  This does not make God imperfect, but only our knowledge of Him and the universe around us - and the possibilities we do not allow for because we cannot possibly understand them with our limited minds.

You set up a straw man (or, in this case, straw God…LOL), and then happily knock him down.  You might as well ask: If God is perfect, can he create a rock He cannot lift?  Of course, God’s perfection is “in trouble” no matter which way this is answered (i.e., if He can, and can’t lift it, He is imperfect; if He can’t, then He is imperfect).


“Evangelical Christianity, as everyone knows, is founded upon hate, as the Christianity of Christ was founded upon love.”

I beg to differ.  I am an evangelical minister and my ministry is based on love, not hate.  As well, every evangelical I know rejects the so-called Christian Right and their attempts to co-opt and take Scripture out of context to support narrow, unloving, unforgiving and, ultimately, un-Christian positions and views.

The origins of evangelicalism are in love, not hate.  That some “extremist” Christians have (largely successfully) co-opted the evangelical label to espouse positions of “hate” is sad and annoying.  But it is no more representative of evangelicals as a whole than the fringe elements of the Tea Party are representative of the country as a whole.


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By Ephraiyim, June 10, 2010 at 9:55 am Link to this comment

John Ellis,
“You see, a fascist Christian feels he has a right to question God, and to actually doubt God.”

How does one defend. There are times when I question Him but that has more to do with my trust than anything else. If I did not know Him (not know about) but know. I would fear questioning Him. He is my friend so I am free to ask.
Perhaps that is fascist. Though I have no desire to control anyone. Each makes their own choice. I certainly do not advocate for any form of government any longer.
My position is one of what some have termed Christian Anarchy. And though I agree that planet earth may be a wasteland of meaningless fiction I do not believe man is just an animal with a big brain.
Man is created to Worship the Creator for His pleasure because He delights in us. I make Him happy. He loves me unceasingly and created me be in a love relationship. He is my Daddy. He is my friend. He is the greatest love of my life.
My doubt says way more about my need to grow than anything else. What I believe is a result of encounters with Him not intellectual ascent. Not logical persuasion, but He in me and I in Him.
How does one defend love. How do I explain to someone the love I feel for my wife or my children. It is not about reason it is about experience.

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By "G"utless "W"itless Hitler, June 10, 2010 at 9:53 am Link to this comment

John Ellis,

I thought I was the confusion generator around here.  Giving that title to just anyone renders it meaningless.  And what does it say about you if you’re obviously confused by so many different posters?  It begs the question:  Are they truly the confusers or are you just confused?

The foregoing has been LIGHT.

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By Shenonymous, June 10, 2010 at 9:50 am Link to this comment

Lights under baskets do not shine anywhere but underneath the
basket –

“Purpose of this world is to prove the harm in it.” – This can only be
seen as a gullible and naive purpose. 

Why would a god build a world for such a proof?  What would a god
gain for that? 

Because we cannot know what a god would gain does not mean if
there was such an all-knowing being that it would have such a
purpose for humankind, and humankind would never be able to know
in any event, so then, so what could possibly be a reason?  Who would
be conceited to say what is in the mind of God?

It appears a stupid god would have that purpose and a capricious need. 
Is that how a god ought to be intuited?  Since a god is (allegedly)
omniscient, to whom would it be proving what harm is in the world? 
To the inhabitants?  For what ultimate reason?  Ultimate reasons are
unknowable of a god.  Nothing can be attributable to a god, since
nothing is known, everything is mere human invention.

Although there are many apologetics that the mind of God can be
known there are Biblical evidences that the human mind cannot.

Jeremiah Chapter 17 Verse 9
“The human mind is the most deceitful of all things. It is incurable. ...
Who can understand his errors? Much less can we know the hearts of
others, or depend upon ... Yet whatever wickedness there is in the
heart, God sees it. ...

Ecclesiastes 3:11
He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the
world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God
maketh from the beginning to the end.

As investigated in Ro 1:20-23, Scripture indicates that man naturally
denies the existence of God.

Romans 8:6-8 v.7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit
to God’s law, nor can it do so.

Luke 10:22
“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows
who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is
except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.”  TO
whom hs the Son chosen to reveal God? What are the distinguishing
marks of a knower chosen by Jesus?

The Bible actually contradicts Aquinas - man cannot rely on his reason
to arrive at spiritual truths at all:

a) Isaiah 55:8 v. 8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are
your ways My ways declares the LORD.

b) v. 9 As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher
than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts.”

Therefore man cannot correctly reason his way to the thoughts of God
which include who God is and what He has plainly revealed to man.

So all the arguing in the world that indicates the mind of God, is pitiful.

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By Joan, June 10, 2010 at 9:46 am Link to this comment


RE: June 10 at 12:06 PM.

“…I question God all the time. He does what He chooses. He only intervenes when He chooses…”

“…lets Him (God) decide what He is and how He involves Himself rather than being what we think He should be…”

“…Your battle is not with me or even those Christians who you oppose so frustratingly. Your battle is with Him. The all knowing and all powerful God. You vitriol will not help you. He always wins…”

You know the same God I know…masterfully elucidated…this post is a keeper…thanks.

Once you get it that God is not an extension of man, but is independent and self- possessed by His own intentions and will, operating on His own behalf, addressing His own agendas, then the God/man tension changes entirely.

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By Inherit The Wind, June 10, 2010 at 9:28 am Link to this comment

John Ellis, June 10 at 12:50 pm #


Inherit The Wind
“If God exists He is either totally non-interventionist…”

And that could only be if the purpose of this world was to prove the harm in it.  And if that were true, then you and all men would be without excuse.

“For what is now physically impossible to see of him, this is by
his creation of the Universe, by what he actually made, this is
clearly understood, and fully comprehended. Namely,
his eternal existence, his absolute power, and his divine nature.
Therefore the actuality is, all men are without excuse.”  Romans 1:20

“Revealed now is the righteous indignation of God in heaven
against all the corruption and harm of men.  For what is truth
and light – in deceit and darkness is now held back.  For what
may be understood of God is known in reality by them, the
Lord therefore to them made it known.” Romans 1:17

“The logic being that planet earth is a wasteland of meaningless
fiction, and though the Creator is in submission, not by choice.
For he does it so that through his subjection, during that time,
full trust in him be established…
For it is self-evident that, with all of us, the Creator laments
and suffers the same agony to this very day.”
Romans 8:19 IGV


MY Gospel:

Deep within the heart of every evangelist lies the wreck of a car salesman.

Men become civilized, not in proportion to their willingness to believe, but in proportion to their readiness to doubt.

Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable…. A man full of faith is simply one who has lost (or never had) the capacity for clear and realistic thought. He is not a mere ass: he is actually ill

Evangelical Christianity, as everyone knows, is founded upon hate, as the Christianity of Christ was founded upon love.

Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.

Theology is the effort to explain the unknowable in terms of the not worth knowing.

The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it.

People say we need religion when what they really mean is we need police.

We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.

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By Ephraiyim, June 10, 2010 at 8:59 am Link to this comment

John Ellis
Thank you. I do not read Greek or Hebrew so it makes it very difficult sometimes. I try to use my interlinear but that can be problematic as well. I would say it a bit differently than you. To quote a friend “The Word has been monked with.” I generally have to depend on Holy Spirit to guide me into truth.
I normally try to use the word scripture. I am still learning. Thank you again for your correction.

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By Inherit The Wind, June 10, 2010 at 8:09 am Link to this comment

Miracles are logical impossibilities unless God is imperfect.

1st line of logic: What appears “miraculous” inevitably reflects a lack of understanding of the underlying science.  Once that science it understood, it becomes clear it is not a miracle though it may still be wonderful, beautiful and awe-inspiring.

2nd line of logic: “Miracle”, by definition, is a violation of those very natural laws that exist in the universe, whether those laws were created by God’s will or by some other non-divine factor. To allow their violation, the omniscient omnipotent God would have had to have created the Universe as an imperfect system full of holes requiring intervention, tweaking and fine-tuning to clear out “anomalies” and injustices.

3rd line of logic: How could “Intelligent Design” possibly create an imperfect universe that regularly required miraculous intervention and contravention of the very natural laws “Intelligent Design"oids claim are God’s will and work?

LIGHT (had to borrow that from John Ellis)
If God exists He is either totally non-interventionist, having foreseen and planned for EVERYTHING in his “Intelligent Design”, therefore negating EVER performing “miracles”. This means pretty much all the religions of the world are nothing but B-S when they cite their miracles and magical happenings.
He is imperfect, with imperfect creations that either He, or his surrogates, must constantly mess with—like Kirk re-writing the program code for the Kobiyashi-Maru challenge.  In other words, a cheat.  His miracles are cheats to cover errors. What does THAT make every religion?
God as conceived by humans does not exist.

Personally? I tend toward either the first or the last.

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By Ephraiyim, June 10, 2010 at 8:06 am Link to this comment

I question God all the time.
He does what He chooses. He only intervenes when He chooses. If, as you implied, He is all knowing and all powerful He must know things that we cannot comprehend.
I realize that messes with what you might want in a god but, again being all knowing and all powerful pretty much lets Him decide what He is and how He involves Himself rather than being what we think He should be.
There is more. Sin and evil exist in the world. He did not want it that way but we like our sin and we like to perpetrate evil upon our fellow man. That is free will.
He wants us to worship Him out of love, not obligation. That will only come as a result of a realization that without Him we can really do nothing good.
Upon said realization one cries out of desperation for His answer which is repentance of sin and acceptance of the sacrifice He made through the death of His Son in our place.
That’s right. The All Knowing All Powerful God suffered a horrible death in your place. He even went to Hell for you.
Then comes the revelation of the power to live a life for Him, His way, because of His resurrection from the dead.
Your battle is not with me or even those Christians who you oppose so frustratingly.
Your battle is with Him. The all knowing and all powerful God. You vitriol will not help you. He always wins. You can’t win against pure, sacrificial Love. He coming to get you Photoshock! He wants to pour out His Love on your hurts, your disappointments and wipe away the tears of frustration. Blessings.

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By Maani, June 10, 2010 at 7:55 am Link to this comment


With due respect, when you do that (send multiple short posts), our email boxes fill up unnecessarily, since each post is a new email.  As a courtesy to everyone here, please try to consolidate comments into a fewer number of posts.


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By SwampFox2u, June 10, 2010 at 7:51 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Chris seems to have been sniffing glue. This enlightened opinion appears to be the PROJECTION of the Secular Left onto his version of the so called Christian Right.
The zeal for power and control of the masses cannot be better expressed and demonstrated than the beloved systems Chris appears to advocate of Secularisms function under Lenin,Marx,Mao and Europes Orwellian Socialism.

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By photoshock, June 10, 2010 at 6:55 am Link to this comment

If G-d, is all knowing, all powerful, all seeing and able to do anything including changing the laws of nature-also known as miracles, WHY has G-d, not healed the Amputees?
To check on the status of this G-d the Far Right Christian Wing Nut coalition of the Republican party check out the website http://www.whydoesntgodhealamputees.
We need more not less questioning of the Far Right Wing Nuts of the Christians. People do not give up your right to dissent, if you do so, and this is happening more and more, than there will be no one left who will voice any kind of dissenting opinion from the ‘christian’ norm.

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By Ephraiyim, June 10, 2010 at 4:56 am Link to this comment

“If we do not act, American fascists, clutching Christian crosses, waving American flags and orchestrating mass recitations of the Pledge of Allegiance, will use this rage to snuff us out.”
Awesome quote Chris. I would add or clutching flags with a hill and a sunrise while bowing to the great messiah Obama.
I actually agree with much of what you say about American Christianity. The whole idea of thinking that we are to somehow make this nation into a theocracy excludes much of what Jesus taught. Besides, I don’t want a theocracy unless Jesus Himself is running it. He will, soon enough.
Meantime we, those who are believers, need to disengage a bit from the world as in “Love not the world neither the things that are in the world.” It seems to me that what one gives most attention to is what one loves most.
When we spend so much effort on trying to change the world through political maneuvering rather than sharing the Love of Christ we have forgotten who we are.
Don’t misunderstand Chris, sin is sin and the Bible makes very clear what those things are. But, we’ve all sinned. “There is none righteous no not a one.” “All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God.”
Many who rant against the sins of others have forgotten that they are just as sinful apart from the grace bestowed through the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Please forgive us for our self righteous attitudes toward others.

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By Inherit The Wind, June 10, 2010 at 3:19 am Link to this comment


Ofersince72, you need to learn to focus, man.

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By ofersince72, June 10, 2010 at 1:19 am Link to this comment

Want to debate the immigration problem that Clinton
brought on., or the war on drugs that Democrats are
guilty of?
fascism is fascism, whether you put Christian in front of
it or not.  Hedges knows this all too well ..............

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By ofersince72, June 10, 2010 at 1:08 am Link to this comment

So go Boycott FedEx as Hedges pleads, and everything
will be just fine…

and remember,...

for just $2100 you can hike Appalachia with Hedges,
he is looking for some communists to oust the capitolists.

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By ofersince72, June 10, 2010 at 1:01 am Link to this comment

I don’t view Maddow, Olberman, or Stewart as any less
theatrical than Beck, ORielly, or Limbaugh,
just catering to a different audience that believes that
it is more sophisticated but just as easily led by the
pied piper.

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By ofersince72, June 10, 2010 at 12:46 am Link to this comment

Maybe you still believe in the boogy man in a cave and
that Iran poses a bigger threat to world peace than
the US, not me…...

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By ofersince72, June 10, 2010 at 12:44 am Link to this comment

That is just why I have never voted since 72, for
president, any candidate from either major party.
I have stayed a registered Dem , because at one time
I thought it was important to keep Capitol Hill in the
Democrats hands only to be fooled time and time again.

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By ofersince72, June 10, 2010 at 12:41 am Link to this comment

I am equally afraid of what both parties have to offer.
Sara Palin doesn’t scare me anymore than another Obama
Administration, the same ones will be calling the shots,
they know where their bread and butter is, centrist
politics and will not let it stray far from there.
The rest is theatrics to make ones ignorant of US politics
to believe that there really is a difference and that
elections count.
Go for it !!!!!!!!!  Hedges is very much apart of that
scheme as are most all journalists that contribute to
Truth Dig.

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By ofersince72, June 10, 2010 at 12:33 am Link to this comment

All the rants that you have put out against
privitized capitolism and now you are going to tell
me that you believe in the lesser than evil doctrine??

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By ofersince72, June 10, 2010 at 12:31 am Link to this comment

I turned the theater part of it off several years ago..
so don’t keep up with the Beck rants, and the Maddow

  If you like that theater, good for you.

How do you feel America is going vote itself away from

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By ofersince72, June 10, 2010 at 12:25 am Link to this comment

I see very little difference between a right wing fascist
government and a right wing fascist government.

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By ofersince72, June 10, 2010 at 12:21 am Link to this comment

and Japan !

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By ofersince72, June 10, 2010 at 12:20 am Link to this comment

My take on the origins of WWI and WWI are different
than text book versions offered junior high through
college, and all the Western powers just as guilty as
the other.

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By ofersince72, June 10, 2010 at 12:12 am Link to this comment

She, I appreciate your humor, always.

TomasG I understand what went on in Germany prior to
WWII. I also believe you understand the jist of my posts
on this rant by Hedges.
I also have watched the Christian Right for the last
forty years.
I also have watched the “inverted totalitarianism” that
Hedges speaks so often of.
It is no longer inverted.  We live in that state right
now.  Was anything that Hitler did any worse than what
has been going on the last ten years in Iraq or Afghan?
or the institutional racism and prison population that is
present right now.
I am not any more afraid of the Christian Right than I
am of our present government and don’t have any reason to
be.  I still believe this is nothing but a diversion
rant by Hedges.

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By Maani, June 9, 2010 at 11:01 pm Link to this comment

She: “Yabutt Maani…‘Most Christians (and particularly the Christian Right) would not know Jesus if He bit them on the ear.’  If he did he would be Mike Tyson!”

LOL.  Actually, it is instructive that Jesus healed (re-attached) the ear of the centurion that Peter cut off in Gethsemane.  So I doubt He would actually go about biting peoples’ ears…LOL


“Well, first of all I can see that Chris hedges hates christians! Jesus said that would happen! He said if they hate me, they will hate you also! He was right! I also see that Chris is a Harvard graduate. Can you expect anything else but hatred for Jesus and his followers from a rabid leftist college like that?”

Uh…Allende?...You obviously missed the part where it says that Hedges has a degree from Harvard DIVINITY School…So while he takes Christians to task in some cases (like this one), it would be a stretch to say he “hates” them…

Ed: “There is one good thing about having a top story on the subject of religion: it keeps the religious readers busy posting here, and blessedly (so to speak) absent from the other threads.”

ITW: “LOL!  Good one, Ed!”

Uh…Ed…ITW…What - you don’t think religious readers can multi-task too?  LOL.  Just ask She.  LOL.


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By elisalouisa, June 9, 2010 at 10:13 pm Link to this comment

So why doesn’t Chris Hedges mention the alliance between the Christian Right and the Neocons? The information below, given in a previous post, bears repeating.

Excerpt from Vanity Fair contributing editor Craig Unger, article on the” Bush family feud, neoconservatives and the Christian Right” article in the Wiki News November 12, 2007

DS is David Shankbone who is interviewing Craig Unger

Orthodox Jews and Fundamentalist Christians
DS: You have a chapter about the assassination of Yitzak Rabin; how did that advance the neoconservative agenda?
CU: It’s one of the least understood events in contemporary history and it is really important in terms of our policy today. Yes, it was done by this one right-wing Israeli, but it was ordained by Orthodox rabbis because Rabin was backing the land-for-peace process. It’s parallel to the Sadat assassination by Islamic fundamentalists. Rabin was breaking Halakhic law by supporting land for peace because it is divinely-ordained land.
DS: Are the Israeli orthodox Jews in touch with the Christian right in the United States?
CU: Completely. And the neocons are a secular version of that, and you see it start coming together, and Netanyahu becomes one of the great backers of an alliance with the Christian right. Michael Ledeen is going on Pat Roberton’s 700
Club shows. You start to have this weaving together.
DS: What does the Christian right have to gain from this?
CU: It’s theological.
DS: The End of Days?
CU: Yes, Christ will not return until that land is given back to the Jews. I try to draw this in the book. People try to talk about the Culture Wars, Red State/Blue State. But no, it’s much deeper than that. It goes back to the founding of America and the Puritans, really. I thought I grew up in a country that put a
man on the moon, unraveled the human genome, that discovered DNA and invented the iPod, but no. No western country believes so strongly in Creationism and that the world was born 6,000 years ago; that evolution is wrong. This war is deep and profound and what’s happened now is the government is run by people who believe in dictating our policies based upon the Bible.

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By Inherit The Wind, June 9, 2010 at 9:53 pm Link to this comment

You know what, John Ellis?
You are a first-class hypocrite.  I have worked in academia and I have labored building houses for people that I thought I could never afford—like the shoemaker whose kids are barefoot. I worked as a roustabout and I slogged through mud all for $3 or $4/hour.  But that doesn’t mean I didn’t go back to school and move on to better-paying and more challenging work.

But I was NEVER ashamed of building houses.  I’m still proud of it, and remember the joy of seeing a moving van pull up in front of what was once a hole in the ground.  I’ve seen the dregs and noble characters on the construction site.  I’ve had crazies pull guns on me for no reason and people bring me furniture when I was living barely able to make rent.

I’ve worked on job sites with Klansmen and Communist radicals, with thugs who sexually harassed weaker guys because they could, and women who nobody dared mess with.

I’ve worked for saints and sadists at every level.

So your disdain for people of intellect and education is nothing but typical envy.  For all your preaching and bible quotin’, you are as flawed a human as any of us, and maybe more flawed than most.

How DARE you preach at us, with your phony facts, your crappy “scholarship”, bogus web-site references, condescension and egotistical photo!

Learn the Joe Hill song lampooing “In the Sweet By and By”:

“Long hair preachers come out every night.
Try to tell us what’s wrong and what’s right.
But when asked about something to EAT.
They all smile and with voices so sweet:

‘You will eat
By and by
In that glorious land above the sky.
Work all day,
live on hay.
You’ll get Pie in The Sky
when you die!’
(That’s a lie)”

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By Inherit The Wind, June 9, 2010 at 9:33 pm Link to this comment

John Ellis, June 9 at 1:41 pm #


Inherit The Wind
“And who made up all those fantasies about angels”?

Above poster tells us that everything is relative, absolutely
nothing all good or all evil in physical reality, except of course
for an absolute – there is no such thing as a spiritual reality.

Pure hypocrisy if you ask me.  For if all people are relatively good,
if evil people is a fantasy out of the medieval, then why be so
absolute about the infinity of things that could be in and among the

Could it be that poster has excessive wealth and only by his society
norm fake morality is he able to keep us from nationalizing such a
corrupt thing as hoarded wealth?


Who said any of that?  Another one making up garbage about me because he cannot answer my questions honestly.

I have been a constant critic of “situational ethics” and “moral relativism”.  Where did you get this garbage about me just because I don’t accept that YOU have divine revelations?

If I had “excessive wealth” you think I’d be wasting time on TD?  Not on your life! I’d be in a beach house in the Mediterranean or on Martinique!

John Ellis, you really need to question your own passion for pomposity.

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By Inherit The Wind, June 9, 2010 at 9:28 pm Link to this comment

Ed Harges, June 9 at 1:19 pm #

There is one good thing
about having a top story
on the subject of religion:
it keeps the religious readers
busy posting here,

and blessedly (so to speak) absent from the other threads.

LOL!  Good one, Ed!

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By elisalouisa, June 9, 2010 at 9:20 pm Link to this comment

.  .  .  But the story of one of Kristol’s most momentous — and cynical — maneuvers, the brokering of a tactical alliance between Jewish neoconservatives and openly anti-Semitic evangelicals, has been generally

One sentence in Hedges’ column stands out:
“But they are also being used and manipulated by forces that seek to dismantle what is left of our democracy and abolish the pluralism that was once the hallmark of our society.”

So who are using and manipulating the Christian Right?  Max Blumenthal’s column on 9/20/09 titled ‘Irving Kristol’s Alliance with Anti-Semites’  tells us:
“.  . But the story of one of Kristol’s most momentous — and cynical — maneuvers, the brokering of a tactical alliance between Jewish neoconservatives and openly anti-Semitic evangelicals, has been generally omitted. In my book, ‘Republican Gomorrah: Inside The Movement That Shattered The Party,’ I describe how Kristol initiated the alliance in July 1984, urging that American Jews, ‘enmeshed in the liberal time warp,’ ally with Jerry Falwell’s Moral Majority.”

Why does this Chris Hedges’ column not mention the Christian Right alliance with the Neocons, a subject Hedges knows very much about considering his background.

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By OldEyesMarsh, June 9, 2010 at 8:35 pm Link to this comment

Good for you, Chris.  Give ‘em hell smile  The Christian crazies deserve every vituperative word.

Unfortunately, your suggestions for countering this craziness are too vague to be much help (E.g. “Let us reincorporate these dispossessed into our economy.”)

Worse, your call to political action is self-defeating: “Let us openly defy the liberal establishment, which will not save us.”

What, specifically, are you advocating?  Voting Republican in November?  Or not voting at all?  What will that accomplish—show Obama that he’s disappointed you?  That may give you satisfaction, but it means surrendering to the Republicans.

With so much at stake, we need every vote.  Intellectual leaders, even if frustrated themselves, should set an example of patience and realism.  They must not encourage petulant perfectionists and Fair Weather Democrats to sulk on the sidelines.

JDmysticDJ (June 8, 10:44am) puts his finger on a popular excuse we hear from dropout liberals: “...there’s no difference between Democrats and Republicans…”  That’s lazy thinking, and it’s wrong, wrong, wrong.  Sure, both Democrats and Republicans schmooze with the lobbyists and accept campaign donations from big corporations.  The difference is this: Democrats may be influenced by corporate money, but the Republican party is almost a wholly-owned subsidiary.

JDmysticDJ, by calling our attention to “Capitalist Oligarchs,” gives us a clue about this corporate takeover.  For anyone interested in seeing evidence of how it happened, I recommend “THE RAGE PUPPETEERS,” at  But fasten your seat belt; the story gets scary.

So, Chris, please reconsider your advice to “defy the liberal establishment.”  The battles we must fight go well beyond resisting Christian fascism, and we can’t afford to lose the war.

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By Allende, June 9, 2010 at 8:20 pm Link to this comment

Well, first of all I can see that Chris hedges hates christians! Jesus said that would happen! He said if they hate me , they will hate you also! He was right! I also see that Chris is a Harvard graduate. Can you expect anything else but hatred for Jesus and his followers from a rabid leftist college like that? Or should I really say a Communist/Globalist University!Not that the rest of our universities are not just as sick! the thing that Chris doesn’t realize, is that our country was founded on christian principals based in the Bible. Not on pluralism in every and any foreign belief and false or demonic religion. However we have been a VERY tolerant nation! And everyone is free to believe what they want, and I support this! But don’t blame the christians for Bush’s sins! Or any other president Republican or Democrat! Bush is a Council on Foreign Relations nut and Skull and Bones freak just like the Democrat John Kerry is! Not a nickel’s worth of difference across the aisle! This is used in the competition of campagning Republican against Democrat…the old Haglian Dialect….thesis/antithesis/synthesis= Republican versus Democrat = alterior agenda that keeps repeating itself no matter who’s in office! and the public joe goes on not even noticing or caring about it, if he does, it’s only to voice like a parrot what the media moguls say what is real, and happening! And the media has always demonized the christian, while the true culprits never show their faces, or if shown , never admit it. this is truely a really deft art! I am a Navy Veteran, I have never had to kill anyone, and I’m grateful because of it! I am against any president who has killed innocent people like the Afgani’s and the Iraqi’s people that didn’t have to be killed, but used to demoralize the population! How disgusting! And all for munitions companies and oil companies profit!and let’s don’t forget the political machinations of washington!I am ashamed of being called an American for what our Corporations have done as well as Washington has done! We’ll answer to God for that! but Chris, please don’t blame the christians for Washington’s sins! True christians will listen to the truth and they don’t believe in condeming or murdering innocent people..and we are NOT totalitarian nuts!wherever you got this twisted belief about christians is just NOT true! I believe that there are decieved christians just as there are others who don’t believe in Jesus are decieved as well. One has to investigate truth! And know the truth by research!
that’s why I constantly read from many sources to know what is happening. But no one will know the person of all truth until they submit their will and acceptance of the God of all jews and gentiles who is Jesus himself! He really is the Truth, the Way, and the Life and no one comes unto the Father except by him! There is no salvation in any other “God”!And believing in him doesn’t make you a terrorist, or a hater, or fascist!...It gives you peace with God and man! How horrible is that???


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By Shenonymous, June 9, 2010 at 8:14 pm Link to this comment

Life basically is purposeless.  Humans who are conscious have to
make their own purpose, their own morality, and their own
homemade spaghetti sauce in honor of the Flying Spaghetti

Yabutt Maani… “most Christians (and particularly the Christian Right)
would not know Jesus if He bit them on the ear.”  If he did he would
be Mike Tyson!

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By Maani, June 9, 2010 at 8:08 pm Link to this comment


“In reality the decisive battle was between Germany and the Soviet Union, 1.7 million died or wounded.”

Actually, most estimates of the “Eastern Front” battle have over 5 million dead and at least that many wounded.

Three other comments:

-I keep hearing that Christians are supposed to be “enforcing divine will.”  This entire sidebar confuses me.  Where does it say that humans are supposed to be “enforcing divine will” in the temporal world?  That entire notion is absurd. Christians show (or, at least, are supposed to show) the “glory of God” by living Christ-like lives (i.e., living by the 11 precepts I noted earlier), and applying their faith to good works.

God is perfect, humans are imperfect, and God does not expect, or want, humans to “enforce” anything: He wants them to honor His son’s sacrifice and live according to the precepts of His ministry.

-”[T]he testimony to the words of Jesus is based on writers who lived way beyond his lifetime (if he really lived).

Actually, Most Biblical scholars (including Jews, Christians and others) accept that the first gospel, that of Mark, was written in ~60 A.D.  Since Jesus was crucified in ~30 A.D., the people who wrote the gospels were very likely around, if not with, Jesus, and perhaps even His disciples.  As well, the latest-written NT book is Revelation, which was written in ~90 A.D. (again, accepted by most Biblical scholars).  As for Jesus’ existence, Josephus (among others) proves that He existed.  The only debate is whether He was who He said He was.

-Re the Christian Right supporting Israel because they think that doing so will “hasten” the Rapture and/or the Second coming, that they believe this is, sadly, true.  But what chutzpah!  Do they really think that, assuming there is to be a Rapture and a Second Coming, THEY can in any way “hasten” them? Do they not realize that God does things on His own timetable, and not according to ours?  Do they not realize that if they do something to “hasten” them, God can turn around and “slow them down” again?  Or vice versa?  What incredible arrogance!

Finally, re “The Christian right, fascist Tea Party, Fundalmentalist Libertarians would be the first to condemn Jesus, ruff him up a bit, or throw him in jail because, first he will not be chalky white, a dark Middle Eastern, has long hair, sometimes head gear, and refuses to criticize others.”

Yup.  As I have now said twice, most Christians (and particularly the Christian Right) would not know Jesus if He bit them on the ear.


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By omygodnotagain, June 9, 2010 at 7:33 pm Link to this comment

The right wing evangelical Christianity is going nowhere. As we learn more about our history and more about ourselves, we will discover that most religions are based on folk lore. But that is fine, a lot of what passes for History is folklore too.
It is a tribal thing. Much as we like to think it was the US and Britain that won WW2. In reality the decisive battle was between Germany and the Soviet Union, 1.7 million died or wounded.
It was a fight for totalitarian supremacy, based on the shared philosophy of Hegel, that the State was a semi divine being and the individual nothing without the State. The Germans, Soviets totalitarians had their folk lore too.
The real question is not found quoting folk lore, but
in answering the question what happens after you die. If the answer is nothing then life is basically purposeless, but if you believe there is an after life, then life has purpose.
Finding what that purpose is defines the type of society we have… that is the important role religion plays, for it deals in universals about humans and their behavior, not in Chosen People, books of hallucinations like Revelation, and the Red Sea swallowing up armies.

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By Shenonymous, June 9, 2010 at 7:30 pm Link to this comment

Better than one to whom only vocational classes were available
even in two different school districts. 

So you couldn’t make it in regular academia, so you are bitter, eh? 
How about them sour grapes?  Ho hum and yawn.  No wonder you
are a hypocritical bore. You still blather John Ellis.  That’s all you
ever do.

ofersince72 can you prove you are alive?  I have to admit your
imitation of it is not too bad.

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By Ed Harges, June 9, 2010 at 7:28 pm Link to this comment

I have offered this prayer of thanks once before,
and I offer it again
(out of superstition, perhaps….):

There is one good thing
about having a top story
on the subject of religion:
it keeps the religious readers
busy posting here,

and blessedly (so to speak) absent from the other threads.

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By berniem, June 9, 2010 at 7:22 pm Link to this comment

As a dyed-in-the-wool secular humanist, I welcome exclusion from what is essentially an American Taliban movement. Please note, however, that I am far from being alone in this belief and before the self-righteous bible thumpers who have turned the traditional Jesus into some kind of Chuck Norris avenger go on crusade be advised that us non-believers have indeed taken advantage of our “sacred’ Second Amendment rights and don’t plan on meekly marching off to whatever fate the neo-inquisition may prescribe! As an aside, while I think of it, doesn’t the description of the RAPTURE(absurd as it is)sound a lot like the Holocaust? Jesus with a tiny mustache? Nah, can’t happen, hmmm?

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By ThomasG, June 9, 2010 at 7:11 pm Link to this comment

ofersince72, June 9 at 8:29 pm,

The swastika is a Maltese Cross of the Catholic Church’s Knights of Malta and the National Emblem of the Christian Fascists of Adolph Hitler’s Third Reich.  You should be able to make a determination of how much worse it can get from my post to you of June 9 at 10:58 pm on this thread concerning the same subject.

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By ThomasG, June 9, 2010 at 6:58 pm Link to this comment

ofersince72, June 9 at 9:18 pm,

How much worse was it for the Weimar Republic in Germany after the Christian Fascist of Adolph Hitler took power as the Third Reich.  As I recall history, it was really bad in Germany as a result of the Treaty of Versailles and the collapse of the German Economy, but “peace in our time” did not occur as Neville Chamberlain declared, World War II broke out and Germany was destroyed as a result.

When we look at and think about how much worse it can get, we need to look at how much worse it got for the German Weimar Republic prior to World War II and how much worse it got for Germany as a result of Fascist Governance in Germany and Italy, the Axis Powers, during and after World War II, so that we can have a “pattern of perception” of possible “cause and effect” of Fascist Governance.

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By ThomasG, June 9, 2010 at 6:39 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, June 9 at 9:20 pm,

With regard to “causal education”, what I am advocating is that the American Populace and the Middle Class agitate long and loud against “savant education” and for “causal education”.  It will be a long road and a difficult one, but it would be worthwhile if we are all serious about having and continuing to have a democracy for all of the citizens of the nation, rather than “selective democracy” for a few at the top of the pyramid.

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By ofersince72, June 9, 2010 at 6:21 pm Link to this comment

What is considered a first class education.

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By ofersince72, June 9, 2010 at 6:18 pm Link to this comment


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By ThomasG, June 9, 2010 at 6:18 pm Link to this comment

race_to_the_bottom, June 9 at 11:50 am & race_to_the_bottom, June 9 at 11:52 am,

You are right, if you are saying that the enemy of the 70% American Peasant Populace is Private Capital and Privatized Capitalism.

The solution is Social Capital and Socialized Capitalism that can compete with Privatized Capitalism, so that when financialization of Privatized Capitalism collapses, that part of the National Economy that operates with Private Capital, the capital assets of Privatized Capitalism can be sold off as toxic assets at Market Value to make Markets for Socialized Capitalism, instead of using Social Capital to recapitalize toxic Private Capital and continue, as in the past, to bring the dead beast of Privatized Capitalism back to life so that Privatized Capitalism, as a reanimated dead zombie, can continue to be a parasite on Social Capital without gratitude like a thankless child.

Privatized Capitalism has died too many times to be treated like a thankless child and given one more chance; it is time for Privatized Capitalism to face the consequences of its own actions and if it cannot, for its capital assets to be sold to make markets for Social Capitalism.

I have been advocating this plan as a solution since the September 18, 2008 Cyclical Collapse of the U.S. Economy to deal with the cyclical collapse of Privatized Capitalism that, by the way, I predicted 5-6 years before its occurrence,  and I have posted the specifics in detail over and over again on the Truthdig Forum.

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By ThomasG, June 9, 2010 at 5:51 pm Link to this comment

Paul Cooper, June 9 at 11:57 am,

Get a clue.  You are the one who is unaware.

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By ofersince72, June 9, 2010 at 5:23 pm Link to this comment

I am some what sure what Hedges is saying is that

we have a choice,  between the present fascists

and the Christian fascists.

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By Shenonymous, June 9, 2010 at 5:20 pm Link to this comment

Yeah well…life happens.  What I didn’t do, you did for me TG.
Much obliged.

Causal education could only come, ThomasG, with the approval
of school boards who are the authority for the purchase of
textbooks.  Local school boards reign supreme and they are the
ones that have to be convinced.  However, there are no textbooks
that includes what you want taught anyway!  So no textbooks, no
teaching.  Even if teachers could teach without textbooks, their
syllabi/curricula are approved by the school boards as well.  Even
if teachers could teach it, they would have to know what to teach
and I do not think there is even one teacher who would know what
you are talking about.  You have to package your program much
more encompassingly

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By ofersince72, June 9, 2010 at 5:18 pm Link to this comment


No one really knows what the real unemployment rate is
or the under employment rate is with the present fascist
government we have had for a decade.

  LIGHT   (dim)

How much worse would it be with the Christian fascists?

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By ThomasG, June 9, 2010 at 5:14 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, June 9 at 9:03 pm,

Your post sounds like you should have ended it with, “and that’s all I’ve got to say about that”.  You are in the right.

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By ofersince72, June 9, 2010 at 5:10 pm Link to this comment


  The Isreal/Palistinian conflict couln’t have been handled any worse by the present fascists

  LIGHT (please)

Could the Christian fascists have it messed up any worse?

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By Shenonymous, June 9, 2010 at 5:03 pm Link to this comment

I have a first class education John Ellis. You watch your filthy
mouth!  You are the one that demonstrates a lack of intelligence. 
Why should anyone believe you?  What are your credentials?  Your
pathetic whining opinions?  Blathering bible thumping?  You are a
discredit to the bible that at one time you deride and another quote
up the wazoo! That’s because you have no real basis for your ersatz
guerilla garble. A perfect arm-chair propagandist for an ineffectual

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By ThomasG, June 9, 2010 at 4:58 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, June 9 at 8:12 pm,

Social capital and social capitalism will help to empower the American Peasant Populace and so will a Multi-Party Political System that will allow the American Peasant Populace to be represented by a political party of their own and represented in the U.S. Government and in both houses of the Congress as well as the Judiciary; unless and until these reforms are enacted and the American Peasant Populace is provided with “causal education”, the United States is nothing more than a Greek Style Democracy for the few at the expense of the many with the American Peasant Populace being wage slaves.

I was hoping that John Ellis might be capable of a greater degree of understanding, but it would appear that from John Ellis’ post of June 9 at 7:42pm on this thread, that my hope was misplaced with regard to John Ellis.

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By ofersince72, June 9, 2010 at 4:29 pm Link to this comment

Our government is always wrapped in secrecy, everything
their involved is always a big, big , secret.
Most of it we probably should know about, like anything
to do with the USS Liberty attack, thats our business.
So many, many things,  like even an oil, hush hush how
much. Thats our business.
It is everything, covert operations here, there and
every where, why?

I often wonder, and ponder at night, if the Christian
fascists would be as bad as the present fascists at this.
Don’t you?

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By Shenonymous, June 9, 2010 at 4:12 pm Link to this comment

“Education is what is clearly apportioned by class in this nation-society,
with lower classes coming out lower, of course (that’s how they got
lower in the first place). That is a matter of public policy, resulting from
whom we put in office, and how accountable we hold them.” 

It is better said how they are “kept” in the lower range in the first place. 
It wasn’t something the poor achieved, it was what they didn’t achieve.
And it is a lack of education that keeps them there.  It is the
imperative of those of us who have the power and wherewithal to
change that.  To make sure the American Population has equal
opportunity for education from Pre-K to a four-year college degree. 
That is 17 years of guaranteed education!  I’m willing to pay my taxes
towards that end for in the end this country will be the better for it and
so will my progeny and theirs. 

It is true that class does not determine the social consciousness of an
individual. That speaks for individuals and the individual who can rise
about his/her condition is not a common event.  The general
population does not have a ‘social’ consciousness, they are too busy
eking out a living or being involved in their creature comforts and are
not savvy about the politics of why they don’t have an education or why
their children are attending inadequate schools.  Being a teacher, I
would have to include teachers in that inadequacy as well for there
are lots of teachers who could do better.  I have to say that teachers
are overworked but not on account of content teaching. On account
of everything else but content teaching.  It is a big argument but the
responsibility needs to be distributed properly and an arousal of
conscience to be alert and take action in order for effective changes
to occur. 

So how to go about waking up the General American Population?  309,
454,657 million people counted as of 22:58 EST June 9, 2010.  One
quarter of the population is counted to be under 20 years of age.  That
is more than approximately 77 million who are children that we have to
consider to be our responsibility to educate. 

For any statistic you might want check out 2010 Statistical Abstract at:
also current demographics information can be found at

You want a population that can think and fend off the forces of fanatics
wherever they come from? Left, Right, religious or political?  Give them
an education.

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By ThomasG, June 9, 2010 at 3:20 pm Link to this comment

RenZo, June 9 at 7:04 pm,

Mighty enlightened words there RenZo.

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By ThomasG, June 9, 2010 at 3:13 pm Link to this comment

John Ellis, June 9 at 5:44 pm,

I feel your pain.  However, you misunderstand what I said.  My question was an academic question based upon the definitions of propaganda being “binary emotional rhetoric”.

What I was asking you to do was to consider propaganda analysis.  You will make your point more clearly if you will make your case as your own, without the imposition of God’s Will and propaganda.

I think that there may be a chance that I could find a good deal of common ground with you as a person, if you could leave the imposition of God’s Will and propaganda behind and talk in a forthright manner.

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By ofersince72, June 9, 2010 at 3:12 pm Link to this comment

I am glad someone finally explained that to John !!

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By RenZo, June 9, 2010 at 3:04 pm Link to this comment

@ John Ellis, June 9 at 05:44

“....But those of your class won’t even let us bring
our kids to one of your middleclass doctors unless we
have $35 to get pass the front desk…...”

You are living in another age, one where 35 dollars will get you into a doctor’s office. Not to mention the charges from hospitals, pharmacies, etc….

If you think ‘blue collar’ means greater morality, you are also living in a different universe.

Education is what is clearly apportioned by class in this nation-society, with lower classes coming out lower, of course(that’s how they got lower in the first place). That is a matter of public policy, resulting from whom we put in office, and how accountable we hold them.

Class alone does not determine the social consciousness of an individual. Education, intelligence, viewpoint, experience can all help, but most of all is whether one can see through the bullshit propaganda. Some are able to without much formal education, but mostly it takes great literacy and native intelligence to see the motivations behind the lying of the media and the politicians. Political education (marxist especially) can teach this, but it is no longer allowed in this country. Precisely this is why Hedges and Chomsky, both highly educated, intelligent and socially conscious “intellectuals” spend so much of their time preaching to the people. Intellectuals must teach, it is our one, and only, great, saving grace, for as you point out, we don’t build bridges, railroads or homes like others among us. Still, we have great value, even if all we do is call GlennBeck a liar publicly.

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By ThomasG, June 9, 2010 at 2:42 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, June 9 at 4:14 pm & John Ellis, June 9 at 3:36 pm,

Shenonymous’ designation of Lower Class, Working Class, and all but her designation of the Upper Middle Class ARE the 70% majority Common American Peasant Population of the United States, the American Peasant Populace, Back Street America, and depending upon their employment circumstances can be prosperous or impoverished.

Subsequent to the September 18, 2008 collapse of the U.S. Economy, many of these peasants that consider themselves as Middle Class, from Shenonymous’ designation of Upper Middle Class Peasants to the indigent peasants, have found themselves hungry and homeless; these folks are in reality ALL part of the 70% majority Common Population of the American Peasant Populace, the American Populace, Back Street America.

It is a common tactic of the American Aristocracy and the Professional Middle Class to deride and fractionalize the American Peasant Populace, the 70% majority Common American Peasant Population as “the poor”.

How is it that in the United States, a nation of over Three Hundred MILLION people that claims Representative Democracy, that Two Hundred and Ten MILLION people of the American Peasant Populace can be considered as “the poor” by those at the top of the economic pyramid?  According to Shenonymous’ post, the remaining Ninety MILLION people of the American population, the Aristocracy and Professional Middle Class, a 30% minority population, frame 70% of the nation’s Three Hundred MILLION people of the American Peasant Populace as “the poor”.  How is it that the claim can be made that the United States is the best nation in the world with life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness with freedom and justice for all under these circumstances? ——To do so is ludicrous and shameful that such blatant sophism, propaganda, and false rhetoric is taught in the Public School System in support of such a bankrupt system of governance.

Are you John Ellis a disaffected member of the 70% majority Common Population of the American Peasant Populace trying to wake up and make sense of the fact that you have been living in a dream world, the American Dream, and are you trying to use God as a crutch to help you cope with the American Reality that bears no resemblance to the American Dream?

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By Night-Gaunt, June 9, 2010 at 1:30 pm Link to this comment

I am disturbed by John Ellis use of “deserving” as a defining metric. Have & have-nots and of course those who have just enough or barely enough out there in this depression. And that is what it is from Bushvilles to over 17% not and barely employed.

With his views that we don’t deserve to be alive that begs the question as to who will decide if we are deserving of that life. A dangerously bad attitude that any fascist or dictator or theocrat would use against their enemies.

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By RenZo, June 9, 2010 at 1:16 pm Link to this comment

@ shenonymous
“...lower, working, middle and upper…”

This is not marxist, and I don’t know how you define these. Hedges might agree with me, but more and more I see only ‘Haves’, and ‘Have-nots’, with a subdivision of Haves having an extremely large amount.
You might make a distinction based on education, but then what is education? How far you went in school? How much stinking bullshit you can see thru? How you vote? Whether you believe in god? Impossible questions to answer objectively. Haves and have nots. Two sides to class warfare. Unless you think this new power of the corporations will simply and purely result in the improved welfare of all humanity….but that is simple, isn’t it?

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By ThomasG, June 9, 2010 at 12:28 pm Link to this comment

John Ellis, June 9 at 2:22 pm,

Don’t you think that the polarized view of the deserving and the undeserving is a binary choice that is emotional in nature, as regards the choice of one or the other, the deserving or the undeserving and that the rhetorical choice of accepting one or the other, deserving or undeserving, inexorably leads to a propagandistic conclusion???????

Propaganda is binary emotional rhetoric, and propaganda analysis of the frame of the deserving and undeserving leads inexorably to deserving and undeserving being framed and used in the context of propaganda.

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By Cindy, June 9, 2010 at 12:20 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Very good article, as it takes on both Christo-fascists and our supposed “liberal” leaders. 

Though most Christians get this wrong as well, I would like to point out that it is the book of Revelation, not the plural:

“The war in Iraq is predicted, believers insist, in the ninth chapter of the Book of Revelations…”

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By Shenonymous, June 9, 2010 at 12:14 pm Link to this comment

Not raised in a slum, did not serve in a war, yet I help plenty of
people in all the ways that I can. I don’t think of them as in
classes, but as those who have real needs. So I have a small
question, John Ellis, in which one would you place yourself? 
There are basically four classes: lower, working, middle, and upper.
The lower class, typical of poverty homelessness, and
unemployment. In this class, few finished high school, suffer from lack
of medical care, adequate housing and food, decent clothing, safety,
and vocational training. The media often stigmatize the lower class as
“the underclass,” inaccurately characterizing poor people as welfare
mothers who abuse the system by having more and more babies,
welfare fathers who are able to work but do not, drug abusers,
criminals, and societal “trash.” You don’t seem to fit into this class. 
Let’s try the next one:

The working class are those minimally educated people who engage in
“manual labor” with little or no prestige. Unskilled workers in the class
—dishwashers, cashiers, maids, and waitresses—usually are underpaid
and have no opportunity for career advancement.  They are often called
the “working poor.”  Skilled workers in this class—carpenters,
plumbers, and electricians—are often called blue collar workers. They
may make more money than workers in the middle class—secretaries,
teachers, and computer technicians; however, their jobs are usually
more physically taxing, and in some cases quite dangerous.  Do you fit
in this one?  Only you can tell, or your hairdresser.

The next class is the proverbial middle class. The middle class are the
so-called “sandwich” class. White collar workers who always have more
money than those below them on the “social ladder,” but less than
those above them. They divide into two levels according to wealth,
education, and prestige, lower middle and upper middle for the class
conscious.  The lower middle class is often made up of less educated
people with lower incomes, such as managers, small business owners,
teachers, and secretaries. The upper middle class is often made up of
highly educated business and professional people with high incomes,
such as doctors, lawyers, the “professional class.”  Now you could
easily fit into this category, right?  The fanatics usually come from this
class, by the way.  They let ideals crowd their brains.

Well I doubt you are in the last class, but you could be fooling us and
playing at being an intellectual Marxist?

The upper class is said to comprise only 1 to 3 percent of the United
States population.  This class divides also into two groups: also lower-
upper and upper-upper. A little stuttering going on there since the
money sort of gets stuck on the tongues of those greedy money eating
bastards, right?  Anyway, the lower-upper class includes those with
“new money,” or money made from investments, business ventures,
and so forth. The upper-upper class includes those aristocratic and
“high-society” families with “old money” who have been rich for
generations. These extremely wealthy people usually live off the income
from inherited riches. The upper-upper class is more prestigious than
the lower-upper class.  Wherever their money comes from, both
segments of the upper class are exceptionally rich. Both groups have
more money than they could possibly spend, which leaves them with
much leisure time for cultivating a variety of interests. They live in
exclusive neighborhoods, gather at expensive social clubs, and send
their children to the finest schools. As might be expected, they also
exercise a great deal of influence and power both nationally and

You aren’t really of this class, John?  Aw don’t bother answering, we
don’t really care.  We are all ideologues, right?  Some ideologues just
don’t like other ideologues. But that is the way it goes, thank you Kurt

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By Brenton E MacKinnon, June 9, 2010 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The only thing new, the only thing unique, and the only thing arrousing you from slumber is the discovery that you are part of this parade which has been marching now for millenia. Wecome to The Way Its Always Been. Relax, the intellect is a shadow warrior not of your own but a creature of the energy field swirling about you. Turn off TV, newspapers and this Internet….. give your all to brief Life a chance….

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By ThomasG, June 9, 2010 at 11:52 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, June 9 at 3:01 pm, & Shenonymous, June 9 at 2:40 pm,

I am saying that God, as a Divine Being, is NOT a Divine Being; if, as a Divine Being, God is reliant upon imperfect beings, mankind, to enforce God’s Will.

God will do whatever God does, and it is not up to me to say what God will do or God won’t do, because I am not a perfect being.

I am also saying that mankind as imperfect beings tend to want to lay claim to the power and the glory of God to further their own expedient means to achieving power and glory, and that their actions have nothing at all to do with God, other than the use of God’s name in vain to act in the name of God and implement man’s will as God’s Will.

Mankind does not need to be following imperfect beings, man, in the name of “God’s Will”, because to do so is nothing more than man following imperfect man who has made an imperfect claim to God’s Will, because imperfect man does not want to take responsibility for imperfect man’s own actions:  Examples of God’s Will [(so called) that is in fact imperfect man’s will masquerading as God’s Will (so called)] is as follows:

1) The Divine Right of Kings,

2) Laissez-Nous-Faire Privatized Capitalism,

3) Fascist Governance,

4) Manifest Destiny,

5) Conservative Right-Wing EXTREMIST Evangelical Christian Fascist Religious Movement, and

6) Christian Prosperity Gospel.

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By Jeff Peters, June 9, 2010 at 11:36 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

One has to wonder why the fanatical christian right would have a problem with the Taliban considering that their ideological religious and extremist political views are almost identical. The only difference being the god they choose. Looked at closely the fanatical christian right and the Taliban are brothers-in-arms in their thinking. The fanatical christian right should be embracing their Taliban brothers by demanding the removal of all U.S. Armed Forces from Afghanistan while politically embracing the Taliban. Why? Because the fanatical christian right wants to implement Taliban-like control over the religious and personal lives of all Americans.

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By Night-Gaunt, June 9, 2010 at 11:26 am Link to this comment

Agreed oh “wrinkled” one, for the worse of the worst like it when there is low turnouts. That is how they get in some of their more rabid agents into the mix to foul it up. Bottom up is our best chance for change. At least on the local level at this juncture.

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By Shenonymous, June 9, 2010 at 11:18 am Link to this comment

How many does it take to make a movement?  Ask John Ellis who
spend a lot of time in the bathroom. 

I realize there are scads of people fostering fear in the few who
read blogs, but most of the American Population do not Internet
and if some of them do, it is usually to text their BFFs or see what’s
new on the music charts, get drugs, or some other mundanity.  The
way to counteract the rabid Right is to fight them in the voting booth.
Put up candidates who show they can represent the people and
legislate for them.  It has to start at the local level anyway.  All this
superimposed top down crap is fascist smelling whether it has the hue
of Right or Left.  Don’t you think?  Really think so?

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By ThomasG, June 9, 2010 at 11:08 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, June 9 at 2:12 pm & Shenonymous, June 9 at 2:11 pm,

The fact that false rhetoric, sophism, propaganda, doctrine, and dogma has been preached in the Conservative Right-Wing EXTREMIST Republican News Media echo chamber from the time of Goldwater, through Reagan, Bush I, Bush II, and continues with Glenn Beck and his ilk into the present is more that would, to a rational thinking person, seem to support Chris Hedges’ assertions about the Christian Fascist Movement; what do you think?

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By Shenonymous, June 9, 2010 at 11:01 am Link to this comment

I understand that ThomasG, but regardless of what the Right-Wing
Extremist Evangelical Christian Movement says, they are up against
God’s power (if there be a God) and that cannot have much oooph,
can it? And if here is not a God, then the people can simply ignore
the holy smollers? And it seems they do ignore them, but I don’t know
if that is proof of no God?  I have to consult my crystal ball, Ouija
board, or watch the birds for a sign.

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