OzarkMichael:

Yes, Michael, I do apply this to myself. I’ve walked away from several companies because I was put into a position where I had to compromise my ethics and morals and I refused to do that. I’m not rich but I’ve always held to my principles and am happier for that. But I’ve learned through a long life that there is no way to change someone’s mind. You will hold to your beliefs as hard as I hold to mine. So be it.

This is somewhat in response to the following:
By christian96, October 8 at 1:09 pm Link to this
comment
Generally speaking people don’t remember anything
about their lives before 4 years of age unless it
was something tramatic.  When someone mentions
something before 4 it is usually because someone
in their family told them about it. I’ve tried to
determine developmental reasons why we would be
designed to not remember before the age of 4 but
haven’t reached any significant conclusions.

I appreciate your comment. Generally speaking, that is
probably verifiably true. However, that is not to say
that some agency in our systems did not remember
before it forgot to remember. Id est, the psychopath
does not remember when he is killing someone in order
to obtain a position they would have occupied instead
of him that he, in the time of his life before he was
four, made a complete break with his mother. That the
break was born of the memory of every time his mother
did NOT comfort him, hug him, nurse him, share her
heart beat with him, croon to him, talk to him in a
soothing voice when he could not even interpret the
content of her words.

The baby does not remember at the age of five that
objects are graspable because he lay there for months
practicing in those early days before he could walk.

When I was a baby, I had a nanny. Here is a little
poem I wrote when I was 65.

Rose
hallowed be her name

in my momma’s house
a mammy name of Rose
eased my momma’s doubts
swaddled me in close

hewed of rusty mettle
rubric’ed pink and red
earthy musky nettle
I clung to her and hid

in the hollow of her breasts
in her mirthful thunder roll
I was sheltered by her, blessed
I was warmed within her soul

her heartbeat my summer rain
her breathing was my zephyr fresh
hold me Rose now close again
pressed into your hallowed flesh

My point is that the poem did not come from my later
memory of what happened before I was four. And not
after because I lost her when I was around four.

The experience in the poem was not manufactured
between 4 and 65.

The experience did not come out of my conscientious
dissatisfaction with societal racial discrimination as
I progressed toward adulthood. (I was raised in
Memphis.) The experience was known to me, whether I
remembered or remembered that I remembered.

I agree about the traumatic events phenomenon. I was
carried out of a burning house and I was hit by a car.
Both events occurred before I was four but I think not
before I was three.

Generally speaking people don’t remember anything
about their lives before 4 years of age unless it
was something tramatic.  When someone mentions
something before 4 it is usually because someone
in their family told them about it. I’ve tried to
determine developmental reasons why we would be
designed to not remember before the age of 4 but
haven’t reached any significant conclusions.

CJ, started this with his “30 years ago”

Apparently, the “rogue” theory of political-economy, imparted to me by my old Palisades Park friend Mike (or Sebastian) de Francesco 30 years ago, was more on the money than even I thought at the time.[/quote}

Immediately he was topped by bewski with this comment about “40 years ago”:

40 years ago when I spent several years in the Canadian Public Service, I and others noted that some nasty people were getting promoted. Why has
this continued there and in other organizations?

And at that point I knew i had to say something that also sounded prophetic and important. But that would be impossible, since I was just a kid. So I used some creativity to top them all with my “50 years ago”:

50 years ago I was two years old. With the innocence and penetrating insight of youth I pointed my chubby finger at Bill Ayers as he walked by. “Bad man,” I said.

Congrats to the guy who understood it was a joke, and who laughed. May you always have the last laugh, grokker!

As for drbhelthi who doesnt know humor when he sees it, and whose constant churning of propaganda is tiresome, it is well known that he is an extreme Leftist ideologue with no joy: May all your schemes come to naught, drbhelthi!

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By OzarkMichael  
“50 years ago I was two years old. With the innocence and penetrating insight of youth I pointed my chubby finger at Bill Ayers as he walked by. “Bad man,” I said.”

HA HA HA!!!  Classic Bullshit. And even OM knows it.

50 years ago I was two years old. With the innocence and penetrating insight of youth I pointed my chubby finger at Bill Ayers as he walked by. “Bad man,” I said.  Ozark Michael

What you did at the age of two reflects the opposite of “innocence and penetrating insight of youth.”

At the tender age of 52, it is time for you to go to the source, and request the rest of the story.  Some of us think there is more to life than pointing a finger and saying, “bad man.”  And when one does point and say, “bad man,” it should be supported by empirical information.  Not just the habit of pointing and saying, ” bad man.”

OzarkMichael

Bill Ayers is not a bad man.  You have not matured since you were a child.

50 years ago I was two years old. With the innocence and penetrating insight of youth I pointed my chubby finger at Bill Ayers as he walked by. “Bad man,” I said.

40 years ago when I spent several years in the Canadian Public Service, I
and others noted that some nasty people were getting promoted. Why has
this continued there and in other organizations? Later, I was a business
school prof but I could not answer that question then or now, even though
the same thing happened in my university.  Tell me.

Apparently, the “rogue” theory of political-economy, imparted to me by my old Palisades Park friend Mike (or Sebastian) de Francesco 30 years ago, was more on the money than even I thought at the time.

Leave it to univerities with their “studies” to be 30 years too late, whatever or whoever the topic of study.

Success in this world means you are prepared to ignore any limits no matter what they are. A normal person will come up against a situation where he won’t cross the line. He won’t go forward because the damage to someone else is too great.

                  -C.Curtis.Dillon

Ah, yes, that describes the successful Occupation, which crosses the line daily and when asked not to go forward they surge across the line. “Take the Bridge!” they chanted. Care to see video?

They ignore “the damage to someone else” and innocent people got hurt.

So do you condemn the Occupation for ignoring limits? That is what laws and permits are: limits.

I am a successful person. Do you apply the same rule to yourself that you wish to judge me with?

i didnt think so. That is hypocritical of you.

Well, being a retired psychologist I should have
something to contribute to the discussion on people
who are labeled “sociopath” and “psychopath.”  The
problem is I don’t.  Dr. Thomas Szasz wrote a book
years ago titled “The Myth Of Mental Illness.” In
the book Dr. Szasz ask the question, “Have you ever
heard of an individual leaving the office of a
psychiatrist who was labeled “normal?”  That question
has stuck with me over the years.  Then, when speaking of “mental illness” you get caught up into
the medical definition of illness.  Generally speaking a “sociopath” is someone without a conscience.  Their cognitions are primarily centered
on self not the well being of others.  They believe
they can get away with certain behaviors and no one
will know or catch them. Of course those characteristics can also apply to “psychopaths.”
It is difficult to dianose individuals because of
the many overlapping classifications.  However, a
Psychiatrist must diagnose clients if they want to
receive income from insurance companies.  For over
40 years I have been trying to understand why people
behave and think in certain ways.  I have some
answers but fall way short of completely understanding humans.  I have been strongly influenced by Alfred Adler who was a member of Freud’s circle until they split over Freud’s thoughts on sexuality.  Adler believed perceptions
of interactions in the family strongly influenced
a person’s life style.  By “life style” Adler meant
the way a person views the world and their place
within that world. The question is often ask, “How
can those siblings be so different when they were
raised in the same family?” Adler would say it has
to do with the different ways the siblings “perceived” the same family interactions.
I was also influenced by Pavlov, B. F. Skinner, and
Abraham Maslow.  Wish I coulld have offered more
insight into “sociopath” and “psychopath.” It
simply isn’t that easy.

Sirota has used the book ‘A First Rate Madness’ completely out of context.  It illustrates a type of ‘madness’ that serves as a positive trait and is never characterized as psychotic. 

Sociopathic is a trait that is common with power brokers, including those in the finanial industry, and has nothing to do with effective leadership.  In fact, average and mundane politicians are often are sociopathic which is NOT a FIRST RATE MADNESS.

From christian96:
“Since today, Oct. 8th, is Yom Kippur I though I would
post a comment by Dr. Joseph Goebbels.  Wonder who the
Minister of Propaganda was for George Bush?”

Wow, doesn’t that Goebbels sound 21st century
American?

Hmmmmmm, looking around the Bush administration, and I
am certain my glasses are 20-20, I would have to say,
“wow defecation DOES float.”

I am supposing, just supposing mind you, but, I think
Goebbels strongly resembles a couple others who
carried Bushit: a couple with names originating from
the same area like WolfyWits and Rumsfeld; Rove must
have started on his potential at a very young age. And
Che Nee just happens to inspire a protagonist in a
novel I am writing entitled NINE ELEVENS.

MR. DILLON, your comments on success and the
psychopath are extremely apt.

Consider what it takes to be “successful” in this day and age. You must be obsessed with what you are doing. I saw a comment from a stockbroker about how, if he was forced out of his trader’s job, he would go after someone else’s job and do it better. His comment was, I believe, that he was prepared to work 15 hours a day, 7 days a week and to out perform anyone who competed with him. That’s obsession and I believe every word. Success in this world means you are prepared to ignore any limits no matter what they are. A normal person will come up against a situation where he won’t cross the line. He won’t go forward because the damage to someone else is too great. But the successful person won’t be inhibited by such stupid emotions. He will bulldoze that person in a heartbeat and not look back, not lose even a moments sleep over it. That’s why many, myself included, believe most of our leaders and celebrities, have sociopathic tendencies. They are liars (even pathological), charming, cunning, ruthless and nihilistic. It’s all about them and what they want. And they know no limits. A recent study I read posited that 5% of all men and 1% of all women are sociopaths. We’ve all worked for or known at least one sociopath. Think about all those you’ve interacted with over the years and ask yourself ... were they sociopaths? I’ve certainly known many in my years working in large organizations and being around management types. Many fit the above description to a “T”. Think about Obama ... is he not exhibiting many of these traits? The lying, the outward charm? You’d be surprised how close you are to one of these monsters. And Wall Street is crawling with them.

Emilez said:
“If you are not a sociopath already (I not altogether
sure what a psychopath is), the shit you have to do to
in order to get into these positions of power, will
transform you into one.”

The rampant flourishing of all manner of insanity in
the past year must have readers of my book PSYCHO
PATHS AND CON TRAILS rolling on the floor laughing.

I should not be surprised. Hundreds of articles and
the most important books of the most respected
authorities came out of my research and went into the
book.

Here is the gist of the book as reflected from the
reality of the last twelve months of reality.

Essentially the sociopath is a person who does NOT
care what happens to members of society, finds
something about everybody to hate and in cases of
severe instability and less than median IQ often ends
up on the wrong side of the law.

The Psychopath, especially those with a good IQ are
tremendously and potentially powerful, almost
invulnerable. This psychopath would not be caught dead
in prison.

When an infant is unattended by a loving mother a
point can be reached at which the infant has a severe
and complete emotional break with the mother. From
that moment on the infant is a psychopath in the
making.

Observe that being psychopathic does not mean the
psychopath is psychotic. A singular distinction.  The
psychopath is missing is empathy, love, concern for
others. What the psychopath HAS is power. Imagine all
the energy you would have for personal success if you
were not bothered by emotional attachments. The
psychopath has no guilt, no remorse, no shame, no
truth, no law, no concern but for himself.

The old saying, “defecation floats” was about the
psychopath. The incredibly gifted psychopath is a
master of the con and is a consummate manipulator.

So in what direction will the psychopath float? Up of
course but, also toward control, money, fame, riches, 
corporation CEOs, wherever ruthlessness and
manipulation and mastery of disguise are required.

The successful psychopath has no fear, no muddled
thinking, no loyalties, no real concern for anyone.
Imagine an oil company CEO who cuts corners on safety.
No concern for damages that might be caused by
disregard for law. THAT PSYCHOPATH WILL NOT CARE FOR
THE DAMAGE DONE BY SHIPPING OR DRILLING ACCIDENTS
THAT RUIN ENTIRE ENVIRONMENTS AND ECONOMIES.

The float up enables the purchase of power. He may get
campaign laws changed to enable the unrestricted
support of candidates he has bought off. Lobbyists to
pay off politicians. Change voting laws to favor his
aims. He can buy flocks of politicians. How many
politicians exist who are not on the take? How many
media magnates are not bought off or buying off?

The successful psychopath can control the media. The
media can control the people. How they think. What
they think. What they will buy. What they wear. How
they smell. Who they will be influenced by. What they
believe. How they twist input to fit their paradigms,
change their paradigms. Make the population into
controlled zombies who will embrace strange aims:
eliminate abortion; destroy programs that benefit the
needy; destroy programs that manage the
infrastructure; send the young to war to grow the
crops of brutal “law enforcement” people they will
need as destitution among the 99% increases and
engenders revolt; shove laws aside that prevent
incarceration of those not convicted of crimes;
creation of hit lists naming the people who have been
sanctioned to kill; elimination of taxation of the
rich; and on and on until fascism and oiligarchy rule
completely.

The 99 percent? Massive paradigm bundles who were
manipulated into conformity by the masters of the
ruiniverse, the incredibly gifted and powerful and
ruthless on the psycho paths and manipulating their
way along the con trails.

“There is an abundant literature that connects psychopathy and power politics—-“  grokker

for example, the seminal works of T. W. Adorno and Else Frenkl-Brunswick, from a “few” years ago. (1950)

“There is an abundant literature that connects psychopathy and power politics-“  grokker

- for example, the seminal works of T. W. Adorno and Else Frenkl-Brunswick, from a
“few” years ago. (1950)

I really don’t care whether Sirota read the book or not. There is an abundant literature that connects psychopathy and power politics long before this johnny come late to the party book by Ghaemi. And no, I didn’t follow anyone down a fools path. OK?

Since today, Oct. 8th, is Yom Kippur I though I would
post a comment by Dr. Joseph Goebbels.  Wonder who the Minister of Propaganda was for George Bush?

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it,
people will eventually come to believe it.  The lie
can be maintained only for such time as the State
can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie.  It thus
becomes vitally important for the State to use all
of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is
the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension,
the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
Dr. Joseph Goebbels
Minister of Propaganda
Nazi Germany

SIROTA DID NOT READ ‘A FIRST RATE MADNESS.’

How pathetic to use a book as an example by making the assumption that it means what you think it means instead of just reading the damn thing.

“And frankly, if we have scientific proof that the inmates are running the
Wall Street and Washington asylums, this is the least we should do—and we
really should do a whole lot more.”  Sirota article

Switch the word “scientific” with “empirical” and the summary sentence
appears one hundred percent accurate to me.

The classification of Wall Street and Washington (D.C.) as asylums is in my
opinion reasonably accurate.  That the “leadership” of these two geopolitical
areas is destroying the world with bombs and nuclear radiation, while the
Dr. Mengeles of the world murder with prescriptive drugs and chemotherapy,
and the GeneModifiers ruin the earth and foods with toxic chemicals, who
dare question that population reduction is not only underway – but also is
accelerating ?

Practical observation of what is going on, and taking appropriate social
initiatives against such destruction, is of great practical, social value. 
Tossing mental health classifications at each other, which classifications
are misused and misunderstood outside of clinical settings anyway, serves no
practical value.

David S., the problem is that In order to stop the inmates from running the Wall St.
and Washington asylums, you need enough psychologically and mentally
competent voters who are socially aware and capable of making the right
judgement when they put people in office. I think there’s a shortage in this regard.

grokker

The author of the book never mentioned psychopathic as what he calls ‘a first rate madness.’  If you infer that from Sirota then you are wrong and this is just a string of misinformation based on interpreting a book that Sirota obviously did not read and everyone else follows him down a fool’s path of assumption.

“...we really should do a whole lot more.”

Like what, David?

A typical Sirota column is like a nag at the track:
—finding fault? fast out of the gate
—laying blame? strong down the backstretch
—suggesting solutions? pulls up lame, can’t finish.

Charming vs not. The politicos, as a branch of the entertainment industry, have to be crazy enough to get up on stage & believe everyone will want to listen. The financiers, as a branch of the gambling industry, risk everyone else’s money to pad their hoards. There is overlap. The lure of the hoard & the glamour of the stage have too great an influence a majority of those who bother to vote. Small businesses create jobs, small parties have ideas, or just keep buying the same crap everyone else does. Catchy little tunes are computer viruses for your brain, they’re all I hear from D.C. & those who want to go there.

@C.Curtis.Dillon - What a wonderful comment about this subject. I believe Steve Jobs passed away with a personal fortune of about $8 Billion. He certainly made his “mark” on the world but…as they say, you can’t take it with you.

Wouldn’t society be better off with the serial killers?

“with the right parenting, (psychopaths) can become successful stockbrokers instead of serial killers.”

“you can probably recall a moment in the last few months when you thought to yourself that our lawmakers and corporate leaders are all crazy”

Does psychotic count?

As long as our society, allows men and women, who have the ability to trample over the dead bodies of anyone who gets in their way to assume leadership roles in Corporations, then dead bodies are what we will have more of.

Why do we scrupulously, license every other profession, from Psychiatrists to building contractors, yet take a pass, on CEO’S?

Even your grandmother, has to prove she can drive before getting back behind the wheel..

Because we know, that mayhem can result…and mayhem has resulted…

I’m sure that the one percenters aren’t pleased with the demonstrators, and undoubtedly they are planning on doing something about it….

I dislike the blurring of the distinction. Because outwardly they are very different. A psychopath is a very charming individual, where a sociopath is anything but. It may be that the inner mechanism of the diseases are abut the same (and it may not be), but outwardly they are different.

@jeandavid   You are correct about the blurred distinction between sociopaths and psychopaths. One wonders if the very concept of these disorders will be co-opted like everything else is. After all, there will be so many psychopaths in charge that we may see advertisements like “Coca-Cola, for the psychopath in you!”

@kerryrose   The ability to “think outside the box” is only an aspect of personality of those with a “first-rate madness”, as Ghaemi puts it. There is a lot more to the psychopatic personality. Most creative people are not psychopathic. We don’t need psychos in public office in order to have inspired leadership, if this is what you are inferring in your post. A psycho will think outside the box when he/she sees that it acts in their own interests despite the effect it will have on others.

There is no such thing as a psychopath anymore. There used to be two related diagnoses, psychopath and sociopath, that have been combined into anti-social personality disorder. Sorry that does not clear things up.

This author’s characterization of the book “A First-Rate Madness,” is simplistic and misleading.  Dr. Nassir Ghaemi of Tufts University is actually making the case that those with a ‘first-rate’ madness are the same people who can think outside of the box and devise creative solutions to problems.  He gives as example Franklin Roosevelt.

He further states that it is the average, mundane thinkers, using the example of Bush, that make average and uninspired leaders.  Ghaemi claims that is takes ‘a touch of first rate madness’ to problem solve and find solutions that transcend the abilities of average thinkers.

If you are not a sociopath already (I not altogether sure what a psychopath is), the shit you have to do to in order to get into these positions of power, will transform you into one.

By the time you get there, you don’t know you’re head from your ass anymore and you believe you can create your own reality… which you can’t.

People like Ralph Nader and Dennis Kucinich, are in an altogether different category. They are sane to begin with, and follow a radically different path.

Only the craziest among us would want to fill those positions of power. President? Really? And take continuous shit every day from every direction? Knowing that there are literally thousands of people envisioning your head in the cross hairs of a high powered rifle? Who in their right mind would even contemplate that job for 5 seconds? But we see dozens of people vying for that job. What must be going on in their heads? It can’t be sanity ... can it?

Steve Jobs wanted to write a biography ... for his kids. To explain to them why he was never around. Imagine that for a minute. He was so obsessed with Apple that he ignored his kids and felt the need to write them a book telling they why. Is that sane? Only those who are crazy want that life. Money? Why? You’re so busy making it you barely have time to enjoy it until you are too old to enjoy it. Smell the roses? When there’s money to be made? You must be kidding ... right? Of course they’re crazy ... sociopaths at the very least. It’s all about them and their needs. The rest of us are just a distraction. Personally, all of them should be arrested and put into institutions. Each in a separate room with lots of mirrors so they can admire themselves all the time. And voices, telling them how important, how special they are, playing 24/7. Anything to spare the rest of us the pain and suffering they inflict. I’ve had enough ... haven’t you?