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Speaking Up for That ‘1 Percent’

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Posted on Oct 28, 2011
Gage Skidmore (CC-BY-SA)

Rep. Paul Ryan

By Joe Conason

Lauded by the Washington press corps for his “courage” and “honesty” in confronting federal deficits and the national debt, Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., wrote a budget that almost sank the Republican Party—and may still damage its prospects—because he proposed to dismantle Medicare. Yet his party still relies upon Ryan to speak on behalf of its most important constituency, now known in America and across the world as “the 1 percent.”

Addressing the right-wing Heritage Foundation on Wednesday, Ryan sought to discredit Elizabeth Warren—the Massachusetts Democratic senatorial candidate, Harvard faculty member, creator of the Consumer Finance Protection Agency and enemy No. 1 of Wall Street cheaters—for daring to utter an obvious truth.

While praising the creativity and industriousness of entrepreneurs, Warren recently pointed out that business cannot thrive without functional government providing police and fire protection, safe and efficient transportation, educated workers and myriad other public services.

Paying for those services is a responsibility that must be broadly shared, she said, and the rich who have benefited most from government in so many ways should now pay their fair share of its budgets and debts.

“You built a factory out there? Good for you,” she explained in videotaped remarks that lit up the Internet not long ago. “But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory—and hire someone to protect against this—because of the work the rest of us did.”

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“Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea. God bless—keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”

That simple, plainly factual statement obviously rankled Ryan, a philosophical acolyte of the extreme libertarianism of the late Ayn Rand, whose spirit he channeled in excoriating Warren for supposedly elevating government over “the individual, the family, the entrepreneur,” which he called “completely, inherently backwards.”

Nothing that Warren actually said indicates the primacy of government over the individual and the family, or even the private sector—and Ryan is certainly intelligent enough to understand what she meant. Did he misinterpret her words intentionally? The telltale evidence lies in his own remarks about government’s role in society.

“No one is suggesting that we don’t need good schools and roads and infrastructure as a basis for a free society and a free enterprise system,” he told the Heritage audience. But Ryan’s own budget, with its enormous tax cuts for the wealthy and its required cuts in spending, would cripple government’s capacity to provide those services.

Under a Ryan budget, infrastructure and education would not only continue to languish but starve. He also nodded toward “our safety net system,” calling it “necessary, I believe, to help people who can’t themselves, to help people who are down on their luck get back onto their feet,” without acknowledging that his budget would decimate that system entirely, depriving seniors of the benefits that have raised millions from poverty over the past half-century.

The gist of Ryan’s speech was to scold President Obama for allegedly promoting “class warfare” and for incivility toward his political opponents. (Such complaints might be taken more seriously from a politician who had spoken up at some point against the racially divisive “birther” propaganda in his own party.) Understandably, Ryan isn’t eager to discuss the issues of wealth and income distribution, preferring to focus on “upward mobility.”

But between Ryan and Warren, who is the better exemplar of the American Dream? Ryan is a figure from the privileged class he defends, scion of a Midwestern construction empire created two generations ago that enabled him to pursue an expensive education and a political career without worrying about the cost. Growing up middle-class in Oklahoma City, Warren had to struggle for her own advancement from the age of 12, after her father’s heart attack and medical bills almost ruined her family. She has worked all her life, starting as a waitress, and put herself through law school.

Before Ryan delivers another lecture on the “fatal conceit of liberalism,” he ought to examine his own silly conceit: that he and others like him represent the hardworking majority, when he was merely born at the top.


Joe Conason is the editor in chief of NationalMemo.com.

© 2011 Creators.com


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By ardee, December 5, 2011 at 4:03 am Link to this comment

Now that i have proven the case by discussing it with ardee, the least you could do is admit i was correct.

Thanks for the laugh OM. You have only proven your own unique blindness, nothing of any consequence. You debate without a care for truth or accuracy, you are either a zealot or an idiot, oh wait I repeat myself.

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By OzarkMichael, December 4, 2011 at 11:49 pm Link to this comment

ITW said: “To me the right to peacefully, PEACEFULLY assemble for redress of grievances is sacred.”

For you, but you do not extend that right to me. I was truthful from the first when i said:

Of course, only Leftists can ‘Occupy’ for their causes and its ‘peaceful 1st Amendment rights’.

Now that i have proven the case by discussing it with ardee, the least you could do is admit i was correct.

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By OzarkMichael, November 28, 2011 at 6:09 am Link to this comment

ardee asks:

You are unaware of protests at health clinics that perform abortions?

I was involved in such protests, so yes i am aware. Are you aware ardee, that abortion protests arent allowed ahywhere near the clinics? Certainly not inside them. The police remove u if we even get close, and if we resist removal they use force on us.

But thanks to you ardee, that should be different.

Thanks to you, ardee, it is our first amendment sancrosanct free speech right to Occupy the abortion clinic and close the abortion mill down for a day, something we have never done. When the police try to remove us you will speak up in front of Truthdig and say, “No the police must not interfere!”

Your abuse and insults aside, I am starting to think that maybe you will grant me the same Occupy protest rights that you claim for yourself. This is unexpected and wonderful.

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By ardee, November 28, 2011 at 3:58 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, November 27 at 8:52 pm

Oh Dear, you are sad if not worse. You are unaware of protests at health clinics that perform abortions? I doubt it. You are just a bleeding heart fanatic without a clue about the realities you endeavor to post about.

Play the martyr card all you wish, but understand fully that your posts are in no way rational, in no way truthful and only display, rather uncomfortably, your limited grasp on reality.

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By OzarkMichael, November 27, 2011 at 9:52 pm Link to this comment

My question: “Now what i want to know is, could we conservatives do the same thing? If we shut down an entire port for a day, would you say “that is how democracy is supposed to work”? In other words, do we on the Right have the same free speech rights as you do?”

ardee answers:

What an absolutely stupid question, and one that should have been answered by a myriad of posts addressing the sacrosanct rights of people to assemble and speak freely.


This question of yours illustrates why I call you a fanatic, paranoid and unreliable.

Okay, amid the insults and name calling an answer comes through. You are saying “yes”. So we conservatives have the same right to Occupy as the progressives. So far you are being consistant and if you can continue to do so i will have to apologize to you.

But I have one more question. You see, i dont have much reason to shut down a port. so i wont do that. Instead I would like to shut down something that I think is quite evil. I have my own political cause, just as dear to me as your cause is to you. You and i disagree, but we both have equality and the sancrosanct freedom to protest via Occupy and the police should just leave us alone. Correct?

So here is what i propose to do. I would like to shut down an abortion mill for one day. My friends and i will peaceably enter and peaceably Occupy an abortion clinic. Direct action is our 1st amendment right. We will not be violent nor break anything. We will sing peaceful protest songs and pray together inside the abortion clinic, we will have a teach-in showing how abortion destroys life. Americans all over the country can do the same to their local abortion mills, if they wish to. The more free speech the better.

If we shut down an abortion clinic for a day, would you say “that is how democracy is supposed to work”? In other words, do we on the Right have the same Occupy free speech rights as you Leftists do?

If you agree, than i will finally take my medicine and will promptly apologize to you, because i falsely accused you of denying the sancrosanct Occupy rights to me. You support my equal rights! You would demand that the police leave my friends and I alone as we shut down an abortion clinic for a day because that,(to use your words) “is how democracy is supposed to work, citizens free to express themselves in peaceful and public fashion”.

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By ardee, November 27, 2011 at 4:36 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, November 26 at 11:39 am

Now what i want to know is, could we conservatives do the same thing? If we shut down an entire port for a day, would you say “that is how democracy is supposed to work”? In other words, do we on the Right have the same free speech rights as you do?

What an absolutely stupid question, and one that should have been answered by a myriad of posts addressing the sacrosanct rights of people to assemble and speak freely.

This question of yours illustrates why I call you a fanatic, paranoid and unreliable.

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By OzarkMichael, November 26, 2011 at 12:39 pm Link to this comment

The point of that shutdown, and incidentally one of the largest tenants of that facility was and is Goldman Sachs, is that Oakland police did nothing , the protest ran its course, made its point and ended.

That, despite your endless crap, is how democracy is supposed to work, citizens free to express themselves in peaceful and public fashion.

Ok, well said. ardee, this is good. I understand exactly what you mean. i appreciate your answer.

Now what i want to know is, could we conservatives do the same thing? If we shut down an entire port for a day, would you say “that is how democracy is supposed to work”? In other words, do we on the Right have the same free speech rights as you do?

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By ardee, November 26, 2011 at 3:57 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, November 25 at 8:17 pm

The point of that shutdown, and incidentally one of the largest tenants of that facility was and is Goldman Sachs, is that Oakland police did nothing , the protest ran its course, made its point and ended. Yes, there were incidents coincidental with that shutdown and arrests were made in downtown Oakland, either childish anarchists ( are there really any other kind?) or govt. infiltrators. I added that to forestall your usual tactic of avoidance and distortions.

That, despite your endless crap, is how democracy is supposed to work, citizens free to express themselves in peaceful and public fashion.

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By OzarkMichael, November 25, 2011 at 9:17 pm Link to this comment

You seemed to want something clear and simple but the entire port makes it more complicated. Okay, it was the entire port.

When Occupy shut down the entire port, which prevents all sorts of useful and impoprtant activity by all sorts of people including government officials(happy now?) from getting done, is that Occupation protected free speechor not?

One last try, ardee, if all you can do is accuse and call names, i am going to ignore you.

At least ITW tries to discuss matters at hand.

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By ardee, November 25, 2011 at 7:51 pm Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, November 25 at 12:39 pm

It was not a “loading dock” it was the 5th largest port in the USA.

Yes, it is very hard not to insult you as you seem to do a sterling job of insulting yourself.

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By OzarkMichael, November 25, 2011 at 1:39 pm Link to this comment

it seems ardee, that you lack any ability to address a simple scenario.

Well, let me ask the question, in a different way,  one that is more concrete(that means you dont have to strain yourself to figure out the principle involved) Here you go:

When a loading dock on the west coast was shut down by Occupiers for a day, was that free speech? Was that Occupation protected by the first amendment?

And if it is not protected speech, but edging into some type of abridgement of the dock owner’s(or public’s) rights, may the police remove the Occupiers? If the Occupiers resist, may the police remove them anyway?

We are not talking about HOW they should be removed. We are not talking about what means of removal are appropriate, at least not yet. We are not talking about pepperspray. Not yet. If you want to have a conversation we can get to that.

First we must figure out is Occupation automatically free speech simply by virtue of its political content?. If so, the police are interfering with free speech whether they use a velvet glove or whether they use a bulldozer to remove the Occupiers. There is no sense arguing about any method if it already suppression of free speech. In that case the police are wrong, period. The more force the police use, the more wrong society is to allow it.

But that is only if the Occupy cannot be said to be breaking the law. I am starting out with a simple question, one which clarifies and does not obscure the foundational issue: Is the Occupation of a loading dock, and thus shutting it down for a day, merely free speech protected by the 1st amendment?

If you cannot provide an answer, but will merely hurl abuse and unkind words at me, you will understand that i have nothing more to say to you on the question.

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By ardee, November 25, 2011 at 8:40 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, November 24 at 5:29 pm

Let us ignore the abysmal simplicity of your response here. Let us also ignore the fact that there are no facts within your latest effort, as there are usually none in most of them.

The police are pepper spraying, gassing, responding violently to peaceful protesters, citizens exercising constitutionally guaranteed rights in fact. Those who break windows or commit other acts of vandalism should be arrested and tried, they should not be used as an excuse for violence in general, and their roles should not be an excuse for liars like you to generalize about the movement as a whole.

I am reminded of your mouth breathing heroes who, at Tea Party rallies, carried loaded weapons of all sorts. I saw no police interference there, despite the facts that these morons ( relatives of yours in that trailer park no doubt) were actually violating real laws. I saw no arrests of others for being in proximity to those law breakers either, both scenarios quite different from the treatment OWS receives.

Of course we understand that the Tea Party is a sad and not so funny joke of a party, financed by, and used by, the very system that they think they protest. That the average member of your moron party knows nothing whatsoever about the issues raised while those involved in OWS protests are pretty well versed on the subjects is a moot point..

You are indeeed a legend in your own mind.

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By OzarkMichael, November 24, 2011 at 5:29 pm Link to this comment

I need to know when you think Occupy crosses the line beyond exercizing 1st amendment rights.

Imagine that the Occupiers walk into a bank that is infamous for foreclosing on homes, and they Occupy it for one hour. They dont hurt anyone, dont break anything. The Occupiers are just in the way, perhaps they form a human chain blocking access to teller’s windows. They make some noise with chanting. One cannot say it is violent, it is just a nuisance. The bank cannot function for a few hours.


Are the Occupiers in that example merely exercising ‘peaceful 1st Amendment rights’? When the police arrive, is it proper for the police to remove them? Should the protestors be arrested? Should the Occupiers be fined and/or go to jail for what they did? And if they somehow resist arrest(non violently) should they be charged with that as well.

I think the Occupiers in that scenario are beyond 1st amendment protection. i think the police should ask the Occupiers to cooperate with their impending arrest. If the protestors resist by chaining themselves together or whatever, i think they should also be charged with resisting arrest.

Well, what do you think?

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By Inherit The Wind, November 24, 2011 at 11:10 am Link to this comment

“Of course, only Leftists can ‘Occupy’ for their causes and its ‘peaceful 1st Amendment rights’. If conservatives did the same thing you would call if ‘fascism’.”
**************

Prove it.  Show where I have EVER called for the suppression of peaceful dissent! When Glenn Beck organized that ENORMOUS rally on the DC Mall did I call for it to be shut down! NO! NEVER!

But when Teabaggers spit on Congressmen, when DeLay’s thugs go into the Florida election board and try to intimidate vote counters, I will NOT stand up for them.  Nor should you.

To me the right to peacefully, PEACEFULLY assemble for redress of grievances is sacred.

I have seen few, if any documented cases of where the OWS people have broken the law (and I don’t mean local ordinances changed AFTER the protests began just to shut them down).

I’ve seen a picture of a man touted as an OWS participant apparently defecating on a police car.  Yet I don’t know ANYONE who would pull down his pants and defecate in public like that.  There is no evidence he isn’t what he looks like: a homeless person.  The caption said it was in Manhattan, but the cruiser has clearly “81 PCT” on it—the 81st Precinct, in Redford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn, on the other side of the East River.

So…A Brooklyn NYPD cruiser has an unidentified man appearing about to defecate on it…and somehow this morphed into an OWSer in lower Manhattan taking aim at law enforcement.  The photographer for the Daily Mail CLAIMED it was an OWS member, but….would the Daily Mail pay for and feature a shot of a NYC homeless person taking a dump on a cop car in Brooklyn?  What do YOU think?

As usual a right-winger calls for the Left to be “fair” but never intends to be from his side.

If you see fighting fascism as putting you in chains, then clearly you don’t know what fascism is.  You can’t fight fascism by creating fascism, either from the left or the right.

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By ardee, November 24, 2011 at 9:29 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, November 24 at 6:26 am

Lets find out. You post some and I will tell the truth about my state of arousal. As of yet all you post are silly reflections of your own willingness to drink the poisoned kool aid and brag about it. A shame you have such little self respect. Or think the denizens of this forum so gullible and stupid. They ain’t.

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By OzarkMichael, November 24, 2011 at 6:26 am Link to this comment

Does the truth make you impotent?

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By ardee, November 24, 2011 at 5:16 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, November 22 at 7:53 am

Tell me, Michael, does playing the martyr give you a woody?

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By OzarkMichael, November 22, 2011 at 7:53 am Link to this comment

We ARE devolving into fascism and its defenders have no more places to hide.

I never hide.  People like me dont hide. We defend our freedom and we are out in the open.

Your sincere and repeated accusation of fascism against us is shared by millions, and more every day. Freedom will end if your side wins. Yes, my “ox has been gored” for many many years now, and its time to stop being pleasant about it. I see where your accusations and ‘warnings’ are headed even if you dont.

Do not pretend to be friendly to me while you forge chains for me. Such false kindness I do not accept. Instead I defiantly hurl the chains right back in your face. I do that with earnestness and sincerity.

With insults for emphasis.

When I see peaceful protesters exercising their 1st Amendment freedoms

Of course, only Leftists can ‘Occupy’ for their causes and its ‘peaceful 1st Amendment rights’. If conservatives did the same thing you would call if ‘fascism’.

You are such a useful idiot) that you dont realize what a terrible double standard you are forging.

That is freedom for you, but chains for me. And its only the beginning.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 21, 2011 at 10:20 pm Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, November 17 at 5:59 pm Link to this comment

Between you and me.

Libtard is merely meanness. Its like calling someone an idiot.

Between you and me.

Fascism is more than an insult and you know it

****************

Oh, Ho! Look whose ox has been gored!

So you ADMIT that all those names were meant as insults!

No, Fascist isn’t meant as an insult. It’s an accurate description of the actions of the right based on the 14 Points of Fascism.

It’s not an insult. It’s a warning to the rest of us, who abhor fascism as one of the evilest forms of totalitarian forms of dictatorship.  Talibanism is a religious form of the same thing.

I have no apologies to make.  When I see peaceful protesters exercising their 1st Amendment freedoms being pepper-sprayed, abused, and beaten, threatened and terrorized, I tremble for my nation.  We ARE devolving into fascism and its defenders have no more places to hide.

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By OzarkMichael, November 17, 2011 at 5:59 pm Link to this comment

Between you and me.

Libtard is merely meanness. Its like calling someone an idiot.

Between you and me.

Fascism is more than an insult and you know it.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 17, 2011 at 3:11 pm Link to this comment

It goes further.  The way the right-wing “pundits” have thrown around name-calling goes ‘way back to Rush Limbaugh calling 13 year old Chelsea Clinton the White House dog. That’s 18 years ago and STILL isn’t funny.  He coined “FemiNazi” for NOW activists who wouldn’t back down in the face of those opposed to protecting women’s rights.

Name-calling is a particular Right-wing strategy used all the time.  “Socialist”, “Communist”, “Libtard”, “Lib-er-al”(said with a sneer) are all ways the Right does this. “Pals around with terrorists” was Sarah Palin’s lie about Candidate Obama, and completely mis-representing and re-wording liberal statements is always a biggie.

Oh, what a FUSS wingers made over the much-quoted statement attributed to Sarah Palin “and I can see Russia from my porch!” which, of course, was Tina Fey’s parody of her.  Yet Al Gore never, Never, NEVER said “I invented the Internet”, but every winger hangs on that quote as if he said it, and makes it into a short-hand joke for liberal exaggeration—when the phony statement is the exaggeration.

How about every filthy name the wingers have come up with for the OWS movement, leading off with “FleaBaggers”? 

But the worst is still to call any and every plan for fair taxation and distribution of revenue “Socialist”, even when it means cutting the 3.5 BILLION dollar subsidy to the richest corporations: The oil industry.

Yet identifying and pointing out clear-cut expressions of the 14 Indicators of fascism and of those who advocate those points is somehow “mean”, “unfair” and an excuse to cut off dialogue.

CLEAN YOUR OWN HOUSE FIRST!

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By Inherit The Wind, November 17, 2011 at 2:58 pm Link to this comment

OM:

Your side has been playing the “Socialist” card all along.  Rick Perry just called President Obama a Socialist and has NO idea what Socialism is.

I, on the other hand, have an EXCELLENT idea of what fascism is:  Simplest is the 20th Century version of tyranny, but differs from religious and class-based traditional tyranny.

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By OzarkMichael, November 17, 2011 at 8:13 am Link to this comment

It matters not. We arent really talking about them, we are actually talking about us. Whether Newt succeeds or fails makes no difference between us.  You have always had, and forever will have, the ‘fascism’ trump card to play. 

I take the charge very seriously, since it is the ultimate social/political accusation whcih can be made today. It is akin to calling someone a witch or a heretic during the Middle Ages.

It is a moral debt, or bill that is being continually added to There will be a time when the bill comes due. There will be an “Inquisition” some day. Ther will be a time when conservatives or fundamentalist Christians will have to pay the price.

Again, if I believed the charge about fascism, I would do more than talk about it. I mean today. Right now. But I see why you dont need to do anything, since the constantly repeated charge of fascism is steadily accumulating more and more blame for everything under the sun, (one could say that our tab is still being run up against conservatives), and some day the future Inquisition will have all the more wrath behind it.

That is you way of dealing with me. Against that i no longer offer friendly response.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 16, 2011 at 9:40 pm Link to this comment

OM:
There are only two of the 8 I have even a shred of respect for, for their sense of honor, fair play, and dedication to the Constitution, and they are John Huntsman and Ron Paul.  I’m not crazy about either.  I think Huntsman, of all of them, it the wisest and least partisan.  Paul has ideas and ideals and sticks with them.

Gingrich is already finished.  He cannot spin his latest revelations.

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By OzarkMichael, November 15, 2011 at 9:10 pm Link to this comment

Combine that with the Re-Thugs circular firing squad in the Presidential race and their inability to find someone, ANYONE with stature and appeal with even a hint of chance of beating Obama (again, not wishful thinking or an endorsement) their panic is setting in.

The old Libtard myth that ‘Dark Forces in smoke-filled rooms do all the choosing so the whole Republican primary process is just a show’ seems to have vanished from the Libtard playbook this year. Interesting. 

As far as total fascism is concerned, i am holding my nose and backing one of the Republicans on your list of “total fascists”, Newt Gingrich. So your accusation about total fascism still stands between us.

Every conservative must throw Leftist phony ‘fascism’ accusations back in your face, along with the chains you hope to bind us with.

We must not be silenced by your phony accusations of fascism, or deep fascism, or total fascism, or whatever your favorite fascism flavor of the week is.

It creates a chasm betwen us that cannot be papered over. Friendship might be nice, but not under these conditions.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 15, 2011 at 9:45 am Link to this comment

No matter how I am described by left and right factions I try always to be rational.  If
circumstances change, and endorsing a third party cndidate or even a movement, so be
it.  I am not ther yet but am amenable to it.  I detest most Democrats in both houses and
the WH, but I am TERRIFIED of what the Rethuglicans want to do to our nation.  In my
own cong. district, I’d happily support a third party since the Dems are resigned to not
actively challenging our useless and ineffective Congressman, when I think he is
vulnerable and has been for several elections.

Ozark, I like you, I really do, but you have a reading problem.  Please read my first point
again.  Try to find the word “if” as in “if Perry is elected…”, which he has not been.  So I
am NOT convinced the nation has gone totally fascist, tho parts have, but that may well
change if he or Newt were to reach the WH.

OWS is not endorsing candidates, but it is influencing them.  Notice how Elizabeth
Warren seems to be marching to running Scott Brown out of the Senate (why did he have
to be from Ma, r/t , say Tx? He may be the closest thing to a GOP liberal in the Senate)

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By ardee, November 7, 2011 at 11:18 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, November 6 at 9:54 pm

Ozark or Berserk? What on earth are you going on about?

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By OzarkMichael, November 6, 2011 at 9:54 pm Link to this comment

I see 3 potential paths: 1) we descend totally into fascism, electing a Re-Thug like Perry and having the House and Senate taken over, and when Ginsburg is forced to retire, a sixth anti-Bill of Rights corporatist Justice.

Doesnt “total fascism” justify OWS(and yourself) to do some really forceful stuff? More than OWS is already doing in oakland? I mean if you think the U.S is fascist, really real fascists, I mean “total” fascist, shouldnt you do something besides just complain and whine about it?

Realistically, your path #1)is a call and wish to use force, but you are afraid to do it.

I know for a fact if conservatives(especially the poor country folk) thought the government was fascist, let alone “total fascism”, we would rise up and revolt. Yes, armed revolt.

2) Democrats surge, Obama’s re-elected, the House is retaken and we return to the old 2009-2011 model of GOP successfully blocking any progress..

News Flash: The U.S. government works off checks and balances. Unless you want to circumvent the law, or you want Obama to rule as dictator. You have a hidden wish for force that overrides all rules. 

3) A sea-change and OWS-backed candidates dominate a re-taking of the House and, like the Teaparty on the other side, FORCE the House, and even the Senate Demo-weenies to stop pretending they represent the common people and not the corporations and actually DO SOMETHING!


News Flash: OWS isnt backing candidates and they eschew voting.

But if your #3 dream comes true, there is still an inexplicables attraction to FORCE.

If I talked like you did ITW, you would be saying i was wishing for authoritatian government. You would say i was a fascist.

But since its you speaking, we know its all ok, because your Leftist intentions are pure. Interesting that an election that doesnt go your way is “total fascism”.

I’ll buy a round of double martinis for all. You guys can celebrate your double standard together.

So go ahead and toast each other, Truthdig cicadas. Congratulate yourselves with a hearty Leftist buzz because you know that only goodness and democracy will come from the FORCE you prescribe.

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By ardee, November 6, 2011 at 9:53 am Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind, November 5 at 6:07 pm

Back in the (dark) day it was George Dickel almost exclusively. Ten or twelve and a long bike ride, usually away from the scene of the carnage..;-0

I had a love affair with Anejo Tequila, followed by one even shorter with Mescal ( the real people’s drink). After becoming a single Dad I gave it all up and never regretted it a single minute.

Now that the kids are adults with kids of their own I drink rather sparingly, a Beefeater Gibson before a good meal and ,perhaps , an Amaretto with a Brandy Float afterwards. A good friend is an award winning brewer of beer up around Ukiah,Ca. and I will sometimes journey there to sample and return with some of his latest effort.

As to politics…..it heartens me to see you soften on third party candidacy and I raise my glass to you ...wink

The Hispanic community is a natural, or was once, democratic voting bloc. That they ,too, are turned off to the current incarnation of your party seems more than a trend these days.

Insert here my usual support for voting Green instead of either major party. grin

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By Inherit The Wind, November 5, 2011 at 6:07 pm Link to this comment

Ardee,

I actually agree with your points. I really don’t have a criticism of them. I even agree that my 3rd possibility is such a long-shot it might be the result of drinking too much of Leefeller’s Tequila (or, actually, Knob Creek bourbon).

Yeah, 2) is Business as usual and would be terribly disappointing.  In my own district if there was a viable candidate on a 3rd party ticket, I’d vote for him to send a message to the Dems to STOP FARTING AROUND!  We have a large Hispanic population in our district that could EASILY be mobilized to get out and vote—and they wouldn’t vote for the Republican who supports every anti-immigration bill the GOP House leadership supports!  But they aren’t voting. I’ve even spoken about it past Congressional candidates for the seat and they didn’t do it.

1)?  I don’t, today, see that happening. I think this new Solyndra investigation and subpoena will blow up in the GOP’s face and they really do not have a chance of taking the Senate and the WH.

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By Leefeller, November 5, 2011 at 7:38 am Link to this comment

Good job guys showing opinions and Points of view, I actually enjoyed reading your posts.  Again we; most posters here; have more in common than not! For some reason though I miss Rico, he was like a sounding board from the right, sort of like Fat Fred who also gave his POV with a rights perspective.

Occupy Wall Street is only 6 or 7 weeks old and had been simmering for years.  I suspect the 1 percent did over play their hand, at least to the point people are getting out and trying to shove back. 

Evey sleazy attempt to discredit OWS will be unleashed to show its ugly head, just like the Republicans in the Red States who are doing everything under the sun to disenfranchise voters rights. Why did anyone vote for the bought and sold whore politicians in Ohio, Wisconsin, Wisconsin, Florida and the other Red States worries me like when people applaud those running for President on the Republican Ticket. Clearly a group of stooges! 

As Tao Walker once stated; ‘We are all Indians now!” or as I like to say we all live in Syria now!

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By ardee, November 5, 2011 at 7:01 am Link to this comment

We are now a year away from the general election.  I see 3 potential paths:

1) we descend totally into fascism, electing a Re-Thug like Perry and having the House and Senate taken over, and when Ginsburg is forced to retire, a sixth anti-Bill of Rights corporatist Justice.

While we are on a course for such descent, my innate trust in the American people, however reluctant and recalcitrant, remains strong. It may take more time, things may get quite a bit worse in fact, but, sooner or later “we” will have had enough!


2) Democrats surge, Obama’s re-elected, the House is retaken and we return to the old 2009-2011 model of GOP successfully blocking any progress.

Business as usual then. Not to give short shrift to this historical fact, but I gotta insert the notion that a third party presence in the Legislature might make this scenario more difficult and less common.


3) A sea-change and OWS-backed candidates dominate a re-taking of the House and, like the Teaparty on the other side, FORCE the House, and even the Senate Demo-weenies to stop pretending they represent the common people and not the corporations and actually DO SOMETHING!

The words,“Once upon a Time” came immediately to mind but that is avoiding rather than coming to grips with the thing,sorry.

You ask a lot, I think, of a fledgling movement struggling to define itself at present, facing the winter months that deter its avowed decision to remain outdoors, much less in prominence.

Again, even though I know you (vehemently) disagree I must raise the spectre of the total control of the Democratic Party by the hierarchy, including or especially the DLC. This single fact stands firmly in the way of progressive candidates miraculously appearing and even more astonishingly being supported by that hierarchy.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 5, 2011 at 6:29 am Link to this comment

I, for one, have lately tried to reserve my poison pen strictly for those that flat-out try to deceive with lies and false facts, and, of course, the explicit racist and bigoted remarks.

I don’t know how successfully I have done so, but that is my intention, to keep focused on the issues of the thread, and to, on occasion, try to undo the damage of deliberately false information (such as certain right-wingers, and even some left-wingers are prone to post).

Right now, an exciting tectonic shift seems to be happening in America’s political landscape, based on the un-shut-up-able OWS’s fabulous ability to sustain and spread its movement, picking up strength with each attempt to silence it and shut it down.  It has the smug, arrogant Re-thugs like Ryan, Cantor and McConnell back on their heels, desperately and ineffectively trying to counter-punch.  It has NOT made Demo-weenies look much better, other than they just don’t look as scared and petty as the Re-thugs.

Only Obama, like him or not, (of Washington politicians) has been able to capitalize at all on the OWS.  Not a lot, but some, and enough so they don’t focus on him and his problems.  (this a tactical analysis of his moves, not a POV position)

Combine that with the Re-Thugs circular firing squad in the Presidential race and their inability to find someone, ANYONE with stature and appeal with even a hint of chance of beating Obama (again, not wishful thinking or an endorsement) their panic is setting in. Hence the House has subpoenaed Solyndra records and the WH has refused them as a “fishing expedition” (No shit, Sherlock!) in a desperate attempt to find SOMETHING they can use for political grist.

We are now a year away from the general election.  I see 3 potential paths: 1) we descend totally into fascism, electing a Re-Thug like Perry and having the House and Senate taken over, and when Ginsburg is forced to retire, a sixth anti-Bill of Rights corporatist Justice. 2) Democrats surge, Obama’s re-elected, the House is retaken and we return to the old 2009-2011 model of GOP successfully blocking any progress. 3) A sea-change and OWS-backed candidates dominate a re-taking of the House and, like the Teaparty on the other side, FORCE the House, and even the Senate Demo-weenies to stop pretending they represent the common people and not the corporations and actually DO SOMETHING!

Who will I vote for?  On the lower levels, straight Dem.  My congressman is a rarity—at total Repub-weenie, not a Re-thug, who ALWAYS votes with the GOP leadership and never proposes anything. He may WELL be the least recognizable of 435 Congresspeople, despite representing an important NJ district.  And he keeps getting re-elected!

At the Presidential level, I won’t waste my vote. If anything but a landslide is underway, I’ll be forced to hold my nose and vote for Obama, but I’ll hate myself in the morning.

If a landslide is in evidence, then I may WELL vote for someone else, but not Re-thug.

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By ardee, November 4, 2011 at 9:27 am Link to this comment

Why do you think most of congress is snubbing the populous, they feel the diversions they perpetuate will keep focus far off and away from them and their benefactors.

I believe they snub the populous because they feel they themselves are not a part thereof. Their every moment is filled with the need to build their war chests for coming elections. They live in a rarefied atmosphere of fellow millionaires ( about 40% of them I believe) and see their constituencies almost never. Even when campaigning they speak to faceless crowds and meet only with those who have purchased their influence. Further they work tirelessly to obtain their next six and seven figure job as a lobbyists after being termed out.

We the people must , in turn, snub them in favor of third party politics I strongly believe.

As to the “animosity” between ITW and myself. I do not know the guy, thus my poison pen is reserved for countering his own penchant for hyperbole and personal insult. I certainly do, and far too often, use insult, and do it rather well in fact. But I usually only use it after it has been used by my adversary. I agree that we share much political opinion, as we also share a penchant for said hyperbole and invective.

Of course this ‘rule’ doesn’t apply to the outright liars and propagandists who come out of the woodwork when serious issues are under discussion, issues that scare their masters. I have the understanding that other here do not need such from me and recently posted my intention to ignore the obvious radical infiltrators. Their efforts, after all, are really meaningless and only tiresome if one actually reads them. In fact I think that they actually strengthen the progressive cause by being so blatantly obvious lies and distortions…but I digress.

I cannot say with any degree of accuracy whether the intention of some of us here to boycott the posts of GRYM and his little friend Sky King ( Rico) was what led to their disappearance from these threads. But said boycott against our current losers IMax and the self confessed ‘many colored one’ couldn’t hurt.

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By Leefeller, November 4, 2011 at 7:58 am Link to this comment

Actually Ardee and ITW, the commonality of the 99 percent is what the perpetrators as the powers that be work very hard to divide. Why do you think most of congress is snubbing the populous, they feel the diversions they perpetuate will keep focus far off and away from them and their benefactors.

As the old Robber Barron tycoon said; ‘I can hire half the people to kill the other half”. Little has changed except maybe more of the populous is educated, and may be on to these manipulations, hence OWS. This may explain why they are blatantly attacking teachers and eduction.

I suspect most of us posting here can biker about anything or nothing, just like an old married couple, but in reality, I have always felt most posting here have more in common then not! This may be a good time to set aside differences which have little to do with anything except one ups man ship!.... (I am trying to give it up).

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By Inherit The Wind, November 4, 2011 at 7:27 am Link to this comment

ardee, October 28 at 3:45 pm Link to this comment

Just what part of the arithmetic am I missing?

ITW you are missing nothing. You have this guy pegged for what he is, a Tea Party lemming, marching to the tune played by the Koch Brothers and having memorized the party line and shut out the light of day, the light of truth and his duty to his family, his neighbors and his nation.

It is good that you and I can agree on something, is it not?
******

Yes it is.  Actually, on POLICY issues I think we agree on probably 90%.

And, please don’t take this the wrong way, but I also think we agree that we don’t particularly like each other.

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By ardee, November 3, 2011 at 4:57 am Link to this comment

diamond, November 2 at 8:49 pm Link to this comment

Well I’ll make a deal with you Ardee, you tell me what I’m supposed to be ashamed of and I’ll be ashamed.

Well, for one, your apparent lack of reading comprehension skills. For another the increasing truth of your base immaturity.

I have taken great pains to explain my position and my point. You have taken great pains to avoid them.

So be it.

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By Leefeller, November 2, 2011 at 9:28 pm Link to this comment

Is it not Ryan who came up with the Medicare voucher program? This must mean he is real good doing math, though I do not believe he is an economist any more than Newt Gingrich is a glaciologist.

Most not all of congress is part of the 1 percent and some of the ones who worked hard to get to be part of the 1 percent, probably believe anyone who works hard and keeps their nose to the grind stone means everyone can become part of the 1 percent!

It is just not nice to demonize the 1 percent after all they are a minority!

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By diamond, November 2, 2011 at 8:49 pm Link to this comment

Well I’ll make a deal with you Ardee, you tell me what I’m supposed to be ashamed of and I’ll be ashamed. I can’t make a fairer offer than that, now can I? I would have thought that the people who should have been ashamed are Jobs and his ilk and Apple. Also people like Paul Ryan and Ron Paul who I can’t help feeling are simply clones of each other given different faces to fool the public into thinking they’re different people or will do things differently. I have never employed child labor in my life and I don’t force people to work in unsafe or lethal conditions either but Apple and many other transnational corporations do. And they are stealing jobs every single day from Americans and sending them to where they can be done by children for 20 cents an hour. All I did was tell the truth about it. Your obsession with the ‘missing link’ is all about you and is completely irrelevant to the subject at hand.

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By oldpoliticaljunkie, November 2, 2011 at 3:53 pm Link to this comment

I agree that Ryan is idiotic. He is so smug, so sure of himself, and he ignores the “present value” of the future Medicare dollars he talks about. Is he trained as an economist?
However, I would not hold his privileged background against him. (Think Bobby Kennedy) He is merely a fool, independent of his upbringing.

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By ardee, November 2, 2011 at 2:45 pm Link to this comment

diamond, November 2 at 1:44 pm

Have you no sense of shame, or sense at all…?

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By diamond, November 2, 2011 at 1:44 pm Link to this comment

“I never once said that I doubted the use of child labor in overseas Apple factories, only that such an assertion required a link.”

That’s lawyer talk. You called it an ‘assertion’ which it was not - it was and is a fact.And even after I gave you the information you went on braying about ‘a link, a link, my kingdom for a link’. In all of your name calling and invective you completely overlook the fact that you effectively called me a liar and refused to believe what I wrote without this magical thing called a link. I’m not in the habit of making things up but you have invented an entire persona for me that doesn’t exist. Apparently I’m still in high school which would give my adult children a big laugh. I also don’t know how to do footnotes even though I have a master’s degree. My parents were two of the best human beings who ever drew breath so leave them out of your misguided vendetta. The fact is Apple used and uses child labor in their factories and that is a disgrace, though completely normal for corporations which, as I said, are usually run by psychopaths and sociopaths. The bigger question is, when will corporations stop shipping jobs overseas and causing unemployment and suffering in the west as they cause employment and suffering in China and other countries? When someone has the guts to challenge their right to treat people globally as cogs in a corporate machine, that’s when. And Paul Ryan is never going to do that because he’s part of the corporate machine himself. One of the high priests, in fact.

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By ardee, November 2, 2011 at 6:42 am Link to this comment

diamond, November 1 at 9:17 pm

The truly stupid simply do not know when to shut the hell up, take your licking and learn something from it. I am really sorry that your parents did such an execrable job in your rearing frankly.

My point, one last time for the apparently moronic; If you wish to be credible you must avoid blanket opinion not supported by fact.

I trust that is simple enough for even an apparently carried away and self involved child as yourself to understand. After stating, on several occasions, that I find myself in agreement with much of what you post you still play the injured child game…hint, it sucks.

I never once said that I doubted the use of child labor in overseas Apple factories, only that such an assertion required a link.

I am sorry to resort to invective and insult but gee kid you really can be dense!

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By diamond, November 1, 2011 at 9:17 pm Link to this comment

“Please post your proof of this assertion that Jobs Chinese factories are using child labor.”

Does this sound like someone who believes Apple uses child labor in China? I have a Master’s Degree in German and for this I had to write a dissertation. I know all about footnotes but I’ve also been criticized in other places for (a) quoting (b) including page numbers and publishing information (c) referring to what others (people like Dr. Helen Caldicott, for example) have said about nuclear weapons and nuclear reactors. I never assert anything unless I have it from at least three reliable sources and sometimes more.

I have to say I also find it incredible in the 21st century that anyone needs proof that corporations are run by absolute bastards who will do anything to turn a profit, including child labor and poisoning workers. They have a very long history of both and have used both the police and the army to kill workers who rose up and demanded decent pay and decent treatment. After the near-canonization of Jobs in the media after his recent death it probably is a shock when the mask is ripped away - but Apple is a corporation and if corporations were people they would be psychopaths. I thought everyone knew that.

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By ardee, November 1, 2011 at 4:41 am Link to this comment

diamond, October 31 at 9:08 pm

It is a pity that you continue to stumble down your dark and dank corridor of self involved illogical conclusions.

If one is to be thought a competent source of information and conclusions then one is simply obliged to footnote her assumptions and conclusions with source material. After high school, should your path include college, you will quickly learn that undocumented accusations earn low marks, just as they should.

The real irony here is that I do not doubt that such child labor exists only attempt to make leftists, and supposed leftists alike appear more credible in their postings..

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By diamond, October 31, 2011 at 9:08 pm Link to this comment

“I am after fact, not fancy. Fact is provided, or at least measured, in part, by the source of information. You will learn this as you mature.”

Don’t be so lazy. All you need to do is type ‘Child Labour in China’ or ‘Apple’s use of child labor in China’ and any number of those golden, much-desired facts come spewing forth. The fact that they use/used child labor is undeniable and attested to from many different sources, all of them reliable. Apple themselves have admitted that child labor was used in their factories. If you won’t accept the truth from the company itself I have to conclude that you just don’t want the information and prefer carrying out childish attacks on me, even though I have done nothing but tell the (to you) unwelcome truth. If your problem is with the truth you need to ask yourself why you have a problem with the truth. I can’t help you with that.

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By nimbleswitch, October 31, 2011 at 4:28 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Blaming Obama for “class warfare” is a hearty joke. The Republican Party has been engaging in class warfare against the working class for the past thirty years. The result is more money in fewer hands at the top, the creation of the “Working Poor,” and an economy in the toilet, with corporate manufacturers—with huge cash reserves—complaining that they can’t employ more workers because there is such low demand for their products. Oh, really?! So much, then, for supply-side, trickle-down, “Voo-Doo” Reaganomics, I guess. It isn’t working, is it. By manufacturers’ own admissions, it’s clear that we must stimulate the economy from the demand side.

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By Leefeller, October 31, 2011 at 3:36 pm Link to this comment

I am thinking of becoming one of those Republicans/Tea baggers with out the sexual Constanta.  Lets face it then links and sources are not even an option, just like swamp guy, one can grab from their ass and spout it like the gospel. It must be a much easier way to live, especially where making shit up like lies are a way of life?

I read someplace where the self righteous shall inherent the earth, the wind and the moon if they get there first.  (no reference to poster ITW). Damn it, my source is a bit fuzzy right now, but who ever said the statement,  must have known what the hell they were talking about. 

I will from now on, acquire all my enlightenment from Fox News, this means I can throw up as I throw away my remote, far as I am concerned Fox News and Friends is a beacon of truth and a ray of fairness exceeding even the Pope in the rear end of reality.

Fox news will become my only link to world of reality, I mean one must believe what they see and hear on TV,for only the truth comes from people like Fox and friends, nothing but facts and a poorly planned buggering of reality, well this is true only if one is Republican or Sarah Palin.

After all they now have the Appalaicain Governor on Fox News, what else could I ask for, maybe Russ Limbaugh the truth slayer!

Looking forward to shucking my liberal, pinko commie ability to think and reason and become more like the uni-thoughtless one, who happens to be full of his self known as the resident troll, who has a southern swampy name!

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By ardee, October 31, 2011 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment

diamond, October 31 at 2:12 pm

Where is the damn link? If you went to such trouble to post all this why not include the link?

Act like a child get treated like a child. Keep your childish tantrums to yourself, kid. I have, if you would stop lying on the floor, kicking your feet and holding your breath, you might remember, supported you on numerous occasions here.

I am after fact, not fancy. Fact is provided, or at least measured, in part, by the source of information. You will learn this as you mature.

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By diamond, October 31, 2011 at 2:12 pm Link to this comment

By Malcolm Moore in Shanghai

12:21PM GMT 27 Feb 2010

“At least eleven 15-year-old children were discovered to be working last year in three factories which supply Apple.

The company did not name the offending factories, or say where they were based, but the majority of its goods are assembled in China.

Apple also has factories working for it in Taiwan, Singapore, the Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, the Czech Republic and the United States.

Apple said the child workers are now no longer being used, or are no longer underage. “In each of the three facilities, we required a review of all employment records for the year as well as a complete analysis of the hiring process to clarify how underage people had been able to gain employment,” Apple said, in an annual report on its suppliers.

Apple has been repeatedly criticized for using factories that abuse workers and where conditions are poor. Last week, it emerged that 62 workers at a factory that manufactures products for Apple and Nokia had been poisoned by n-hexane, a toxic chemical that can cause muscular degeneration and blur eyesight. Apple has not commented on the problems at the plant, which is run by Wintek, in the Chinese city of Suzhou.”

Child Slave Labor in China
by Megan Grau
May 2005

The International Labor Organization (ILO) has estimated that of the 250 million children between the ages of five and fourteen work in developing countries, 61 percent are in Asia. Although we live in an extremely modern age, there is, in fact, child slave labor present in China. Some of these children work in sweatshops. A sweatshop is a workplace where workers are subjected to extreme exploitation, including the lack of a living wages or benefits, poor and dangerous working conditions, and harsh and unnecessary discipline, such as verbal and physical abuse. Sweatshop workers are paid less than their daily expenses, thus they are never able to save any money to invest in their futures. They are trapped in a never-ending cycle (Embar, pars. 2-5).

The United States imports of pyrotechnics and explosives from China is approaching $1 billion. Children are working in the fireworks industry. A recent report described an explosion at a fireworks factory in Hebei that killed one child and injured 34 schoolgirls ranging from 11 to 13 years of age. Investigators found that the school children had been forced by their teachers to work for slave wages making firecrackers. The children were promised 20 fen, 2 cents, for making one long braid of firecrackers, but in reality were paid three fen, 0.3 cents. In March 2001, 42 people, most of them third and fourth-graders, were killed in an explosion at a school. The school blew up because the Chinese use young students to make fireworks in order to keep the price lower than their competitors. The younger students are required to assemble at least 1,000 fireworks a day while the older children, fifth-graders, are required to make ten times that many (Farah).”

See, it’s easy. If you want to know something you read a book or go to Google and find out. If you don’t want to know you call people like me ‘asinine’ and ‘kid’. You’re a blinkered ignoramus. Not knowing is not the shame, refusing to know is the shame.

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By Leefeller, October 31, 2011 at 8:48 am Link to this comment

Rep. Paul Ryan would be at home and comfortable in a room with Mussolini and Gaddafi well until after the truth was won.  I suspect Ryan would make good despot material, after all I heard him say he was a leader and not a follower.

Don’t ask me for the quote, I saw it on TV.

It appears Scumbags always somehow float to the top, especially if they are tea bags.

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By ardee, October 31, 2011 at 4:02 am Link to this comment

diamond, October 30 at 1:04 pm Link to this comment

“Please post your proof of this assertion that Jobs Chinese factories are using child labor.”

A large American man recently wrote a book about it and was interviewed on television about it. I came in half way through the interview so I don’t know his name but I’m sure you could track the book down if you really want to know the truth.

This betrays your youth I fear. YOU made the assertion, you are therefore obligated to show proof thereof. “A large American man” , that would be me, is snickering now. C’mon kid, you contribute some good stuff here, don’t ruin your reputation now.



It’s amusing that anyone who criticizes someone like Jobs or tells the truth about what he really stood for has to ‘prove’ everything but someone like Ryan who tells every lie he can lay his tongue on is just allowed to lie and even present himself as a ‘leader’.

Now you descend into the asinine, kid. This thread is replete with criticisms of Ryan and his position. You are simply having an adolescent temper tantrum. Unlinked statements as you have made are garbage. Put up or , for heavens sakes shut up.

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By truedigger3, October 31, 2011 at 3:41 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael,

I am baffled and perplexed. How is it happened that a dumb idiot and tunneled visioned like you got a medical degree.? Is that true? If it is true, what dumb idiot gave that degree??.
If you are really a physician, then how many people died under your care or severely got worse??!!
I AM REALLY PUZZLED!!

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By kimsarah, October 31, 2011 at 1:40 am Link to this comment

You rock, Eddie Munster! Tell them f*ing retards where to go! Then try apologizing to the 99 percent, you coward.

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By Billy Pilgrim, October 30, 2011 at 7:15 pm Link to this comment

It’s little privileged punks like Ryan who make me
ashamed to be an American; then we have trolls like the
ozark mountain daredevil who have nothing intelligent
to say and lone to prove that fact by constantly
littering Truthdig with their inane comments.

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By Dale, October 30, 2011 at 5:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Poor Paul, he can’t help it. He was born with a silver foot in his mouth.

(Hat tip: Gov. Ann Richards)

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By OzarkMichael, October 30, 2011 at 5:48 pm Link to this comment

When a corrupt but hardened stance begins to dig itself deeper and deepter, putting forth one idiot after another, you start to wonder what is churning out the idiots?

                                    -I dont know, cpb. Since you are one of the newer idiots with a hardened stance, I was hoping you would satisfy our curiosity and explain what is churning you out?

Man the kool aid sure tastes good.

Enjoy.

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By diamond, October 30, 2011 at 1:04 pm Link to this comment

“Please post your proof of this assertion that Jobs Chinese factories are using child labor.”

A large American man recently wrote a book about it and was interviewed on television about it. I came in half way through the interview so I don’t know his name but I’m sure you could track the book down if you really want to know the truth. It’s amusing that anyone who criticizes someone like Jobs or tells the truth about what he really stood for has to ‘prove’ everything but someone like Ryan who tells every lie he can lay his tongue on is just allowed to lie and even present himself as a ‘leader’. The only place people like him will lead you is down the garden path. Conservatives and libertarians always have to lie because if they told the truth about what they believe and what they want to do to the majority they would never get elected.

“Under a Ryan budget, infrastructure and education would not only continue to languish but starve. He also nodded toward “our safety net system,” calling it “necessary, I believe, to help people who can’t themselves, to help people who are down on their luck get back onto their feet,” without acknowledging that his budget would decimate that system entirely, depriving seniors of the benefits that have raised millions from poverty over the past half-century.”

See? He’s a liar, and worse than a liar. I’m not.

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By Lily Maskew, October 30, 2011 at 10:36 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Thank goodness Paul Ryan is defending the 1%.  Otherwise their feelings might be hurt when they are called rabbel, unwashed, jobless, homeless mobs.  Oh—sorry - it’s the 99% that get called that regardless of their status.  President Obama didn’t start the “class warfare.”  That’s been going on for years, perpetrated by the rich, who in addition to more money, have more power, freedom, control and respect than the average American. At least they aren’t called rabble.

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By ORAXX, October 30, 2011 at 6:03 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The abolition of child labor, granting women the vote, Social Security, the Fair Labor Standards Act,the Civil Rights Act,Medicare, and the Voting Rights Act were all passed over the vehement opposition of conservatives.  Liberals are fatally conceited?  Conservatives have a history too and I’ve no idea what they’re so proud of.

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By Outraged, October 29, 2011 at 9:35 pm Link to this comment

Article: “Addressing the right-wing Heritage
Foundation on Wednesday, Ryan sought to discredit
Elizabeth Warren—the Massachusetts Democratic
senatorial candidate, Harvard faculty member, creator
of the Consumer Finance Protection Agency and enemy
No. 1 of Wall Street cheaters—for daring to utter an
obvious truth.”

He’s Boehner’s lil’ buddy. Have you seen the video of
progressive candidates attempting to deliver
letters/petitions to Boehner’s office?  Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzdytj8lZn4

Then of course there was Eric Cantor’s aide…. did
ya hear….?
In fact, Cantor said Monday that he’s going to
deliver his very own speech on income disparity “and
how Republicans believe the government could help fix
it” on Friday. A spokesman elaborated: Cantor will
talk about on how Washington can assist “a single
working mom…a small business owner..and how we
make sure the people at the top stay there.

http://www.salon.com/2011/10/18/the_new_e_pluribus_unum_we_are_the_99_percent/singleton/

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By Textynn, October 29, 2011 at 8:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If Ryan doesn’t want to admit teachers, roads, and fireman are important, that’s dumb enough. Now, lets talk about the huge cost of HOmeland Security. You know the Repubs number one reason for living.  “Supposedly” America is under never ending threat from terrorists.

These so called terrorists are not interested in little businesses and cracker box houses of the lower classes.  The people that have extreme wealth and huge giant concentrations of resources, etc. are the ones that have most to fear in this regard and are who any terrorist would be interested in.  Who is paying for all of this security?  The little people. Who is dying for all this security? hmmmm. The little people.

The little people like Scott Olson who OnePercenters like Paul Ryan wipe their feet on and then say *we* are asking for a handout from the likes of him.

My ASs, the middle and lower class carry the elite. We are the backbone of this country and without us they would have nothing but a bunch of inbred, soft handed, untried losers who only know how to play casino games and con jobs for a living. See how long these lily livered panty wastes could get on without US.  While we could do great without them and I hope we get to.

I am sick to death of these parasites calling us drains on them and wanting “entitlements” a word that spins handout. Sickeningly insisting that these are handouts when we pay for them our whole lives. These are bald face lies as they swoop in to take this money we were forced to pay in a program we were forced to rely on.

Why one of us works harder in one week than they do in a year. And our work is important. We teach kids, wipe our elderly’s ass, put out fires, rescue people in danger, build homes, cook food, dig ditches, clean everything, and build everything. That’s just the start of what we do.

Im sick of it. There is nothing more disgusting than someone that doesn’t have respect for the hard work of others. And people like Paul Ryan have none.  Get this sick prick a psychological inventory and then we’ll talk about his right to dictate how things should be done.  PR is a five star loser, an obvious sociopath, and seriously lacking sick individual.

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cpb's avatar

By cpb, October 29, 2011 at 8:00 pm Link to this comment

When a corrupt but hardened stance begins to dig itself deeper and deepter, putting forth one idiot after another, you start to wonder what is churning out the idiots? 

So much ambition builds up in so many different characters.  They haven’t been vetted of course, but they’ve all got something to say.  They’ve all dreamt of their “Moment”, and sensing that that which they hold dear (a ridiculous and callous worldview), is under threat, they rise, like the heroes they are, in their own dreams, in defense of that worldview.  And despite the idiocy on display, the dominant culture can somehow get away with accomodating whatever it must, and repeating the process anew, in another fixed term election cycle.

Man the kool aid sure tastes good.

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By ardee, October 29, 2011 at 3:45 pm Link to this comment

diamond, October 29 at 12:59 pm

Please post your proof of this assertion that Jobs Chinese factories are using child labor.

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By scotttpot, October 29, 2011 at 1:03 pm Link to this comment

Moody* Analytics reported in 2010 that the top 5% 0f all earners accounted for 37% of all consumer outlays and the bottom 80% of earners for just 40% of consumer spending.The economy for the top 10% is just fine with 9% unemployment, .
The bottom 80% don*t stay in $4oo Hotel rooms or buy iToys.
The American Corporate Media is responsible for these inequities.

A popular democracy without a press system that Informs and Engages people
is a prelude to a tragedy or a farce or both—James Madison

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By diamond, October 29, 2011 at 12:59 pm Link to this comment

“Money will go where it is treated best Steve Jobs
told Obama that it’s easier to build a factory in
China so that’s where he built. It’s also why
corporations have a trillion dollars sitting off
shore.”

Easier? Do you not comprehend that the attraction for Jobs in China was child laborers who work for 20 cents an hour? He used child labor in China so that Apple’s product could be sold more cheaply in the west and Apple could also make more profit. The reason corporations have all this money off shore is because that’s where they shipped all the American jobs out of sheer greed and a desire to work with non-unionized labor (meaning completely defenseless and underpaid workers). This is the ‘strike of capital’ recommended by Ayn Rand as a way of keeping workers unemployed if they refuse to work for slave wages in slave conditions. Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher followed her teachings to the letter.

The fact that you care more about money being ‘treated best’ than human beings says all anyone needs to know about you and the system you support. Ironic that Jobs created no jobs and shipped them offshore. I guess that makes him one of those ‘job creators’ that Fox is always blathering on about.

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By Blueokie, October 29, 2011 at 12:17 pm Link to this comment

It’s simple really, Ryan was at Heritage Foundation when he babbled out his
latest round of utter nonsense, if anything were real or true about him and his
ilk the place would go by a more accurate name, Club Sociopath.  The
desperation of Ryan’s continual lies betray the fear inherent in the failed
philosophy offered up by the narcissistic mentally ill Ayn Rand, which she
dreamed up after her aristocratic family fled the Russian Revolution.  The idea
of being entitled to rule due to your ancestors ability to get away with massive,
yet profitable crimes is coming to an end.  Its become too obvious for too long
that the Emperor has no clothes, the squalid appeals to some sort of religious
superstitious element of the masses is no longer working, just as Ryan will have
no meetings with constituents unless its known that they agree with him
displays his fear and cowardice to all.  Perhaps the the only thing more pathetic
than Ryan and his type are the people who come to forums such as this to
blather nonsense in support of ideas long sense discredited, maybe in a fantasy
that the Flying Spaghetti Monster will see their devotion and reward them with
riches.  These are the same types who volunteer to infiltrate Occupy
encampments and throw an empty cola can to give par-militaries the excuse to
overreact.

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By Hollywood Russ, October 28, 2011 at 4:54 pm Link to this comment

Just like Chief Justice Roberts who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and
views laborers as scum and corporations as the font of all that is good. I’m sick of
these rich 1percenters who hold the levers of power in our country. Get rid of
them. Impeach them! Vote them out! I hope Ryan gets his walking papers in the
next election cycle. After he got chewed out by voters at a town meeting, what did
he do? If you are up on the news, then you know. He developed a strategy to keep
only friendly folks into his town meetings. What a sorry jackass that man is. I plan
to donate $$$ to his opponent in the general elections. I’d sell my car to kick that
jackass out of congress.

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By ardee, October 28, 2011 at 3:45 pm Link to this comment

Just what part of the arithmetic am I missing?

ITW you are missing nothing. You have this guy pegged for what he is, a Tea Party lemming, marching to the tune played by the Koch Brothers and having memorized the party line and shut out the light of day, the light of truth and his duty to his family, his neighbors and his nation.

It is good that you and I can agree on something, is it not?

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By mrfreeze, October 28, 2011 at 3:33 pm Link to this comment

A good ad hominem statement feels good sometimes and after hearing SO MUCH these days from elitist capitalists about how the world really works…...let’s ponder Mr. Ryan for a moment:

1) When his father tragically died, Mr. Ryan collected Social Security benefits until he was 18…...hmmmmmmmmmmm
2) He attended public high school…..hmmmmmmm
3) He attended Miami University…...a public college…..hmmmmmm
4) After graduating he worked as a “marketing consultant” for company affiliated with his family…....hmmmmmmmmmm

I think it’s fair to say that Mr. Ryan is an A#1 hypocrite. I especially like the part in his bio that says “he worked in the private sector….” ya right, as if he had to go through an actual interview process to get his “marketing consultant” job with the family friends. Here’s yet another bozo who grew up during the Reagan years; a white, privileged elitist who has never really worked an honest day in his life….....And he’s renowned for his opinions on PUBLIC POLICY…....It speaks for itself folks.

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By marian griffith, October 28, 2011 at 3:29 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

@ITW
—Just what part of the arithmetic am I missing?—

The part where the die-hard republicans have convinced themselves that only those who make (I would not call it earn) a billion dollars per year actually pay taxes.
You do not make that much money so by (their) definition you are not contributing anything and should in fact be grateful for the largesse of the richest that allows you to stand on american soil and continue breathing.

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BrooklynDame's avatar

By BrooklynDame, October 28, 2011 at 3:12 pm Link to this comment

Once again, what the 1% thinks of the 99% is SO obvious!
http://borderlessnewsandviews.com/category/the-bk-dame-says/

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By Outraged, October 28, 2011 at 3:06 pm Link to this comment

Proof we are NOT a long way from third world status:

“Michael Novak, right-wing hatchet man for the
American Enterprise Institute, also demonstrated how conservatives can creatively report statistics. He asked the question, “Middle-class ‘meltdown’?,” and made the erroneous contention that “The simplest way to test the thesis that the middle class declined in the 1980s is to check what happened to median income.”3

Novak used Census Bureau data to claim that

…real incomes of every class of Americans went up
during the 1980s.…

As Reagan took over in 1981, the median income for
American households was $26,251, as measured by the Census Bureau in 1989 inflation-adjusted dollars. By the same measure, the median income in 1989 was $2,655 higher, or $28,906.…

Each of the four lowest fifth (of families) showed
higher income in 1988 than in 1980. The top limit of the lowest fifth jumped (in constant 1988 dollars) from $14,767 to $15,102; of the second lowest, from $24,966 to $26,182; of the third, from $35,361 to $38,500; and of the fourth, from $49,580 to $55,906.4

Although a median statistic tells you what happened at the exact middle of a category, it tells you absolutely nothing about what happened at each end. The shrinking of the middle class consisted of the middle-class-rich getting richer, and the middle-class-poor getting poorer—with the median increasing slightly. Novak’s data are not only irrelevant, they totally distort the reality of the issue being discussed.

Notice that Novak then selected the rising top limit of each distribution to expand his point. In each category, the bottom limit undoubtedly remained the same or went down, but we can’t tell because Novak chose to keep that data to himself.

Also note that the increase in income for the highest of our lowest paid workers “jumped” only $335. That’s just a bit more than 2% over an eight-year period!”
http://www.kellysite.net/10cw.htm

(To be clear, yep that “jump” was in YEARLY income)

BTW, I remember that big “jump”, and I couldn’t decide just how to spend all my new found wealth…!  Should I buy food, pay the back rent or maybe I could put gas in the car? Yep, it certainly was the life of Riley with all those “gains”.


From CNNMoney:
“Incomes for 90% of Americans have been stuck in neutral, and it’s not just because of the Great
Recession. Middle-class incomes have been stagnant
for at least a generation, while the wealthiest tier has surged ahead at lighting speed.
  In 1988, the income of an average American taxpayer was $33,400, adjusted for inflation. Fast forward 20 years, and not much had changed: The average income was still just $33,000 in 2008, according to IRS data.”

http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/16/news/economy/middle_class/index.htm

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By Inherit The Wind, October 28, 2011 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment

‘It wasn’t baloney, Warren babbled about the factory
owner “owing” something above and beyond what he was
already providing - she was just proving how clueless
she is regarding what it takes to create wealth and
what that creation costs and provides. you could use
a lesson yourself. “
*****************

Please tell me which part is blarney.
As a NON-factory owner, do MY taxes not go to pay for roads?
Do MY taxes not go to pay for police?
Do MY taxes not go to pay to educate children?
Do MY taxes not go to pay for fire departments?

When 35-50% of my income is going to Federal, State and Local taxes, and less than 20% of the factory owner’s are, how is HE paying his fair share for the roads, police, schools and firemen?

Just what part of the arithmetic am I missing?

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prisnersdilema's avatar

By prisnersdilema, October 28, 2011 at 2:44 pm Link to this comment

Mr. M.  I did notice that you twisted my words, in attempt to confuse the issues into personal ones, and that you did not respond to my question.

Once again, where is the economic Nirvana promoted and promised to all Americans by conservatives, as a result of their economic policies. Because they could never campaign in an election, to only produce a sound economy for all American’s, not just a few.

Why would someone waste their time trying to convince others of absurd political ideologies that have been shown to be delusional by the result of their application to the real world?

The reason for this is that some part of them is in doubt. The attempt to convince others is really just an attempt to convince yourself.

A hard job these days.

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By CitizenWhy, October 28, 2011 at 2:42 pm Link to this comment

So Ryan wants his precious “individuals, families” to have no resources except
those provided by well off parents rather than government. Curioser and curioser.

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By prisnersdilema, October 28, 2011 at 2:24 pm Link to this comment

Yes Mr.M conservatives have touted their economic plan for years promising prosperity
for this country, for 40 years…instead they have destroyed us,
and are traiitors to everything this country stands for…

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By Zoeboe, October 28, 2011 at 2:18 pm Link to this comment

John M, you are a complete tool for your overlords. Your lying right wing talking points aren’t convincing anyone, although you’ve certainly swallowed them whole. Congratulations on being a total patsy for sinfully wealthy people who don’t give a flying crap about you.

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By balkas, October 28, 2011 at 1:46 pm Link to this comment

it’s of some significance and much interest to me that
i don’t know how business or banking work.
and there may be billions of us not understanding
how lawmaking, banking, and business work nor
what’s the meaning of all that.
people actually blame us for not knowing the ‘deep
secrets’ of such secret activities.

and people engaged in such activities will never
divulge their methodologies nor their purposes for
them.
and they are protected by ‘laws’; which only they
compose and interpret.;i.e., know [and only THEY,
the chosen ones] them exactly as desired at a given
point of time.

so u don’t know what a law means or even
constitution? shame on u! why did u not get an
education u dumb ass!
and what u don’t know will be used against u; every
time, that’s the american way! entire system rests on
that point! tnx

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By omop, October 28, 2011 at 1:44 pm Link to this comment

This is the prime member of the “1 percent” talking about the Paul
Ryans….

  The rich are always going to say that, you know, just give us more
money and we’ll go out and spend more and then it will all trickle down
to the rest of you. But that has not worked the last 10 years, and I hope
the American public is catching on.
Warren Buffett

Which begs the quesion if Paul is “all for complete” freedom for the ’ 1
Percent’ why not leave his position and get into a money making
enterprise.?

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mrfreeze's avatar

By mrfreeze, October 28, 2011 at 1:30 pm Link to this comment

John M - You’re not “making any points” on these boards. You’re just spouting “capitalism” religious talking points.
Nothing new from you….Give it a rest would ya?

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John M's avatar

By John M, October 28, 2011 at 1:25 pm Link to this comment

John M. - Again, I’d like to remind you not to speak
for others. Your’s is the usual “Gingrichesque”
condescending lecturing about all of us dumb people out
here who “don’t know what it’s like to make a payroll.”
We’ve heard your baloney before.

You just proved my point.

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John M's avatar

By John M, October 28, 2011 at 1:22 pm Link to this comment

“y entropy2, October 28 at 12:53 pm Link to this
comment
@John M—the fact is, business, especially big
business, receives incredible benefits at the public
trough.”

I completely agree about the subsidies they should be
cut off, all of them. GE currently employs over 200
people who do nothing but position the company to
minimize taxes. a LOW flat rate with NO deductions
would attract business provided all of the crony capitalist incentives are cut off too, like GE
getting $65,000 dollars for every windmill they
build.

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mrfreeze's avatar

By mrfreeze, October 28, 2011 at 1:07 pm Link to this comment

John M. - Again, I’d like to remind you not to speak for others. Your’s is the usual “Gingrichesque” condescending lecturing about all of us dumb people out here who “don’t know what it’s like to make a payroll.” We’ve heard your baloney before.

Believe it or not, I know how businesses make a profit and what “economics” is. And I’m damn sure Ms. Warren has forgotten more about these subjects than you will ever know. Her point about what business “owes” isn’t at all strange. In fact, you should go back and read your Adam Smith who, more than once, talked about the need for enterprises to be MORE than just engines of profit. She’s referring to the “social contract” that enterprise used to have with the communities in which they exist.

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entropy2's avatar

By entropy2, October 28, 2011 at 12:53 pm Link to this comment

@John M—the fact is, business, especially big business, receives incredible benefits at the public trough. A publicly-funded educational system designed specifically to churn out obedient drones for the corporate machine, direct and indirect subsidies and tariffs, state-enforced artificial rents in the form of intellectual property monopolies, infrastructure that is nowhere near proportionally paid for by the main beneficiaries. All this creates phony economies of scale that would never exist without direct state intervention. Then throw in tax abatements by local and state entities at the expense of basic services for us unwashed. Legally emasculated unions that are nothing more than junior partners to the bosses. Decreased competition from small players through a corporate-controlled zoning, licensing and regulatory regime that cartelizes entire industries for the connected few. The list goes on and on.

(Don’t get me wrong. This wasn’t just “evil” businessmen who sneaked it all in when we weren’t looking. It was all done with full, open complicity and cooperation by “progressives” who have as much contempt for the masses as any corporate boardroom bigshot.)

All I’m saying is don’t pretend that the bloated behemoths we call “job creators” are rugged free-market warriors…or, for that matter, that they could even survive if they were ever detached from the government teat.

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By John M, October 28, 2011 at 12:42 pm Link to this comment

“By prisnersdilema, October 28 at 12:21 pm Link to
this comment
So then Mr. M where is the Nirvana we’ve all been
promised by the 1% ER’s?”

Someone “promised” you something? you mean besides
the right to life liberty and the pursuit of
happiness?

Money will go where it is treated best Steve Jobs
told Obama that it’s easier to build a factory in
China so that’s where he built. It’s also why
corporations have a trillion dollars sitting off
shore.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/272689/plugged-poverty-robert-rector

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By prisnersdilema, October 28, 2011 at 12:21 pm Link to this comment

So then Mr. M where is the Nirvana we’ve all been promised by the 1% ER’s?

Where is it? The job creators, creat jobs overseas, here they close factories, lay off
whole towns, sending jobs to China, and India…and they want us to believe that by
creating more jobs elsewhere things will get better….

So then when everyone is unemployed they want to cut welfare…maybe they want us to
eat grass, like the citizens of North Korea…which makes them just like the north Koreans
who spend their money on Warfare, and let their people make soup out of twigs and dirt
clogs.

It won’t work Becuase it’s what got us here, those that still believe it are like the German
SS, thinking they could still win WW II after Russia took Berlin….

So today in the FT Obama, said his first priorty is to revive global growth….does that
include America?

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By John M, October 28, 2011 at 11:57 am Link to this comment

By mrfreeze, October 28 at 11:48 am

“John M. - Spare us all your sophomoric apologetics
about “job creators” and all that baloney.

Also, who appointed you or anyone else to judge us
all on whether we’re “business owners” or job
creators or whatever. We arent’ all born to run a
business or, for that matter work for enterprises
that are “for-profit.” This is the great intellectual
fantasy that many people carry around in their
heads.”

It wasn’t baloney, Warren babbled about the factory
owner “owing” something above and beyond what he was
already providing - she was just proving how clueless
she is regarding what it takes to create wealth and
what that creation costs and provides. you could use
a lesson yourself.

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By JAM, October 28, 2011 at 11:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re:the quote of Elizabeth Warren on the factory owner reaping the benefits w/o paying taxes, I think that is true in many cases.  It is probably a growing trend in towns and cities that offer “sweetheart deals” to manufacturers and businesses to locate to their towns.  These deals often include not having to pay property taxes, local taxes and other perks.  Also these large businesses do not, for the most part, reinvest their profits in the community where the businesses are located.  Their profits are funneled to their corporate headquarters for reinvestment in its growth and to the shareholders to keep them happy.
These outside businesses resent deeply having to give one dime to the local economy to support its infrastructure.  They often pay the locally-hired employees starvation wages.  So when the argument is given that these businesses create jobs, what they really mean is they are willing to hire local talent for the most menial jobs, at low wages and no chance of advancement.  If they want or need higher qualified and higher paid workers, they import them.

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By John M, October 28, 2011 at 11:52 am Link to this comment

By ardee, October 28 at 9:27 am
“I urge anyone who has not clicked on the link that
John so graciously provided to do so for an instant
lesson in arrogance, in the twisting of statistics to
suit one’s purpose and as a model of why we allow our
nation to sink further and further into third world
status.”

Proof we are a long way from third world status:


http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/the-haves-and-the-have-nots/#

Ryan’s speech relied in part on two studies that do parse upward from downward mobility, do focus on the U.S. context, and do show positive trends. The first is this Treasury study, which looked at tax-bracket movement over two (pre-recession) periods: 1987–1996, and 1996–2005. The top lines:

There was considerable income mobility of individuals in the U.S. economy during the 1996 through 2005 period as over half of taxpayers moved to a different income quintile over this period.
Roughly half of taxpayers who began in the bottom income quintile in 1996 moved up to a higher income group by 2005.
Among those with the very highest incomes in 1996 – the top 1/100 of 1 percent – only 25 percent remained in this group in 2005. Moreover, the median real income of these taxpayers declined over this period.
The degree of mobility among income groups is unchanged from the prior decade (1987 through 1996).
Economic growth resulted in rising incomes for most taxpayers over the period from 1996 to 2005. Median incomes of all taxpayers increased by 24 percent after adjusting for inflation. The real incomes of two-thirds of all taxpayers increased over this period. In addition, the median incomes of those initially in the lower income groups increased more than the median incomes of those initially in the higher income groups.
The second is a Kauffman Foundation report based on interviews with 500+ entrepreneurs, which found among other things that:

“More than 90 percent of the entrepreneurs came from middle-class or upper-lower-class backgrounds and were well-educated”

As far as $10 million dollar senate races they are
easy to fix - repeal the 17th amendment.

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mrfreeze's avatar

By mrfreeze, October 28, 2011 at 11:48 am Link to this comment

John M. - Spare us all your sophomoric apologetics about “job creators” and all that baloney.

Also, who appointed you or anyone else to judge us all on whether we’re “business owners” or job creators or whatever. We arent’ all born to run a business or, for that matter work for enterprises that are “for-profit.” This is the great intellectual fantasy that many people carry around in their heads.

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By prisnersdilema, October 28, 2011 at 10:25 am Link to this comment

Please….... Ardee.. you should know by now that I have never held anything back when it comes to the Democractic party….

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By ardee, October 28, 2011 at 9:27 am Link to this comment

prisnersdilema, October 28 at 8:58 am

I believe it wrong to turn ones ire only upon the Republicans. Yes they, and I must perforce include John M, October 28 at 5:19 am , are easy targets, turning as they do further and further to the right and further and further into irrelevancy, if not immediately then very soon I think.

I urge anyone who has not clicked on the link that John so graciously provided to do so for an instant lesson in arrogance, in the twisting of statistics to suit one’s purpose and as a model of why we allow our nation to sink further and further into third world status. John , my pompous and elitist friend, just how secure is your pension, your investments, your home from the all encompassing greed that you choose to ignore. Does it frighten you too much to even think about it?

The Democrats must share in the responsibility as they share in the seat of power. As they share in the corporate lucre that makes 10 million dollar Senate races necessary to keep the riffraff out. To concentrate upon the GOP is to fight only half the battle, or worse, succumb to the propaganda of Democratic Loyalists who insist that voting for their slate will resolve all our problems, put two cars in every garage and chicken on the dinner table.

Hows this current administration worked out for y’all?

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prisnersdilema's avatar

By prisnersdilema, October 28, 2011 at 8:58 am Link to this comment

Fatal Conceit or Narcissism?...intellectualism without compassion, and feeling.. This is what leads to a disregard to the suffering one has caused others, and when you’re the self absorbed hero of a delusion, what does it matter what happens to others….? Go ahead Mr. Ryan destroy the Republican party….I will be cheering…

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By Merkwürdigliebe, October 28, 2011 at 8:44 am Link to this comment

A god given right, the more you make/take, the less you pay. Ask any ‘true’ American.

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By SarcastiCanuck, October 28, 2011 at 8:17 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It seems to me that Ryan and his priveledged ilk are the ones promoting ‘class warfare’ these days.However,the poor and middle class who vote him in are really victims of thier own short sightedness and ignorance.How do you help someone who refuses to help themselves…

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By jlt, October 28, 2011 at 7:42 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

ryan is all they have left from the right..Note they do not speak anywhere except fox channel and the conservative kock funded ‘think tanks!

The Gopslop is not selling well in the real peoples world…which they are all running from!

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By balkas, October 28, 2011 at 7:29 am Link to this comment

how many people or how large a genetic pool [in which we al swim; however, not
in the same swimming pool] we need to give birth to a genius, a lesser, and still
a lesser genius [entrepreneur/inventor/organizer]?

i’d say nature or nature/godddevil has to create at least 100k people to give birth
a mozart, ‘idiot’, idiot savant, newton, galileo, bush, pasteur, tolstoy, a mental
mess like me, et al!

yes, the 100k or one million people or just one goddevil produces even a person
like paul ryan and the army/cia/fbi/police to back him up!

conclusion: if we all swim in one genetic pool, we all must have the right to  
swim also in one swimming pool. tnx, bozhidar balkas vancouver

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entropy2's avatar

By entropy2, October 28, 2011 at 6:40 am Link to this comment

...them poor old Bosses need all the help they can get.

Cool Hand Luke

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By John M, October 28, 2011 at 5:19 am Link to this comment

7 reasons why Obama is wrong on income inequality

http://blog.american.com/2011/10/7-reasons-why-obama-is-wrong-on-income-inequality/

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