After 9/11 we were told over and over and over again by our mediaocracy that the suicide bombers were brain washed and trained in Islamic mosques and centers all over the Mideast and Europe.  It should come as no great surprise then that the specter of a mosque/community center being built next to the hole in ground that has yet to be covered by a fitting monument to our national tragedy raises such controversy.  I think the real reason for all the pseudo-outrage after the announcement approving the permit to build the center is because the current crop of politicos who represent us haven’t got their act together long enough to reach a consensus on what will go up on “the sacred ground” to replace the WTC.  Once again the likes of Sarah and Newt (I wonder why Al Sharpten hasn’t spoken up on this?)come up with a way to divert our attention away from the most concrete example of their collective incompetence for getting the job done.

Sabagio Mauraeno, from Atlanta Georgia where on every street corner stands a church, so no more room in the Inn for mosque, temple, cathedral or shrine.  Thwarted, their congregations have moved to the suburbs where they are enthusiastically building their versions of the Lord’s house, abbey, basilica, bethel, cathedral, chancel, chantry, chapel, fold, house of God, house of prayer, house of worship, mission, mosque, oratory, parish, sacellum, sanctuary, shrine, synagogue, tabernacle , temple… .  Ah, only in America and no where else could/would such goings on be permitted.  Now that’s the history lesson.

Pax vobiscum

It’s already gotten worse:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/us/08mosque.html?_r=1&hp;
In answer to someone’s question, there are six churches, two Jewish centers (with worship rooms), a Buddhist center and a Bahai Center within 10 blocks of GZ.  As well, there is a growing Muslim population in lower Manhattan, and that is currently the only “mosque” below Canal Street.  [N.B. The imam has been using a small part of that building for some time since his congregation outgrew their other one.  Yet not one complaint was heard about THAT!]

And yes, the building is primarily an Islamic center, with a mosque element included.  The Board is to be comprised of Muslims, Christians and Jews, and the planned courses and exhibitions are multi-cultural.

Finally, it is interesting that neither the MSM NOR the AM have noted that for every survivor or family of a 9/11 victim opposed to the project, there is a survivor or family member in favor of it.  I know because I work with many of them.

Peace.

Both Sarah and Newt are part of a Stalinist-like conservative plan with the end of achieving power with whatever means is available: lies, distortion, propaganda, intimidation, etc—all utilizing a compromised and corporate media wherever possible.

So truth is irrelevant when your goal is grasping power and influence, and keeping it.

Charlie666,

Understand that there is no plan for a mosque at Ground Zero.  There is a plan for a community centre including a mosque around the corner and down the street in one of the most densely populated places on earth.  How many other religious sites (churches, synegogues, religious organisation offices, etc.) are in the same district who knows.  The whole “affair” is a right wing beat up.

The intent appears to be keeping their brain-dead base revved up about the idea that their lives are under threat from foreigners, muslims and liberals.  That way they won’t notice that their lives are under threat from bankers, oil companies and the military industrial complex.  The won’t notice that the Republicans support a plan to raise taxes on 95% of the population while cutting them in half for those at the very top.  http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/06/opinion/06krugman.html?ref=paulkrugman

The whole mosque beat-up has nothing to do with religious extremism, it is about misdirection, confusion and rhetoric.  It appears to be working:  http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/us/08mosque.html?hp

Offersince72: Wilma Mankiller would have been an excellent choice for the first Native American female President, unfortunately she has walked through the Western Door in 2004.

As for religious freedom for those born/living in America. That wasn’t always the case for the indigenous people that were here when the Great White invasion came to this country. Native Americans were not allowed to “legally” practice their religion openly and if caught doing so, especially when practicing the Sun Dance ceremony, were put to death in this so called openly religion country. Jimmy Carter in 1978 changed that laws that forbid the first nations peoples their religious rights to worship as they saw fit so they could now practice their religious beliefs without the threat of death.

So whereas people think America allows all its people to practice their beliefs they need an update on their history lessons. Study the Carlisle schools and their treatment of Native children and the assimilation of Native peoples into that of a Christian way of doing everything. History has proven that Christianity has never respected other religious beliefs of other peoples and they don’t even respect the religious views of other forms of Christianity. So technically, they are lost already.

As for lying Sarah and conniving Newt, let’s hope they never are placed in a position of power in the W.H. They would create their own disastrous blend of what they conceive Christianity should be to fit their mood at the current moment in time and only that time, as they would be changing it on an hourly basis to fit the latest right-winger-tea party whim. Once they start to turn America into a theocracy, and this their main goal, we all are in real danger from these home grown terrorists in government.

Think some of what is done in the Middle east to it’s people deemed not religious enough, just wait until the church takes over here, as it seems like that has been going on since Bush2. History has shown that when a country is run by the church(theocracy), it is the cruelest when it doles out its punishments to the “peasants”,and most repressive on its people, the Christian church and it’s version of God know no mercy. Look at the Spanish Inquisition to start with.

What exactly would the point be? I doubt that they
could spell historie let alone understand it!

Hey,  Rico Suave, 

I have another accomplishment to tell you about.

In the fifth grade I had a MANNER BAG !!!!!

My teacher, Tom Collins, Gave it to me.
(the girl that went on to be COS knows about this)
Because I used to yell out answers without raising my
hand.  One day , he asked me where my manners were.
I told him that I left them home in a bag.
So he took a lunch bag, and wrote OFER’S MANNER BAG
on it and told me to carry it around everywhere that
I went so I wouldn’t ever forget my manners again.
Trouble with that was,  his sister was my father’s
secretary and word got to dad,  so when I came home
from school the next day , Dad also had a manner bag
for me that I had to carry around at home.
AND EVEN AT THAT,  I OFTEN FORGOT MY MANNERS.

Aaron Ortiz:

“MIllions of muslims in the world voluntarily waive the religious rights the author
passionately defends. They deny these rights to their own citizens. Most believe
that Islam must conquer the world and Sharia law must be instituted everywhere.
Abandoning Islam is punishable by death in many of their countries.

In the context of these beliefs, how can he defend them?”

Answer: Because this is America, not the middle east.
(Conversley, the middle east is not America, despite popular and political delusion.)

It isn’t only Sara and Newt that need a history
lesson !!!!!!!!!!!!

  By the way, Newt, after being appointed by Obama,
has been running around with Sharpton privatizing schools.

Discussing freedom of religion is important but the real issue here is power, at
all kinds of levels: individual, group, business, political.

With great respect for the 9/11 victims and their loved ones: we need to remind
ourselves that, besides the victims of 9/11, there are those who die horrible
deaths all the time from the negligence, greed, and wars caused by our very
own non-Muslim businesses and government. But the victims of this kind of
violence rarely make the big news and they are quickly forgotten. 

How is the building of a community center/mosque going to change the serious
problems we already have because of the betrayals, terror and wars we’ve been
inflicting on Islamic countries since way before 9/11?

When were we ever concerned about the building of churches, or about
anything else in Saudi Arabia, our ally?

Is Israel going to magically become a peaceful country if the Islamic center is
not built near Ground Zero?

Our real problems are the powerful groups that run the country and the small-
mindedness of those who continue to support them.

A full blooded female NATIVE AMERICAN that

has been uncorrupted by American Politics is what

I would like to see as our next president ! ! ! ! ! !

Hey,  T A O   W A L K E R

GET YOUR CRAZY INJUN ASS BACK HERE !!!!!!

THESE LOST SOUL EUROPEAN DESCENDENTS NEED YOUR

  GUIDENESS   NOW   IN   A   VERY   BAD   WAY ! ! ! !

Excellent well stated piece Joe. Thank you.

The rants of Palin and Newt, seeking to shred our Constitution for
the possible political gain of the Republican party are shameful.
But, given the evil that we tolerated from Cheney and Bush—
wiretapping, email scavenging and the other warrant-less
intrusions, torture at Abu Grab and Guantanamo, a war built on
lies—not surprising.

The US versus THEM rhetoric appeals to the primitive portions of
our minds. Getting beyond that simple view of the world was what
made the United States special.

We must not let demagogues destroy America in order to “save” it.

Personally, I hope they build it out of trans fat and salt, just to piss off Bloomberg.

The problem with Libertarianism: Private property rights.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read that on liberal/progressive blogs. Guess what? This is exactly what we are talking about. But don’t take my word for it. Here’s the official LP position:

http://www.lp.org/blogs/kyle/intern-blog-build-the-islamic-cultural-center

Go ahead, click it. I won’t tell anyone.

And here’s Reason Magazine’s Steve Chapman:

http://reason.com/archives/2010/07/22/repeal-religious-freedom-at-gr

RE Conason: “Only when the Saudis permit full religious freedom to Christians and Jews, Gingrich suggested, should we do likewise to Muslims. So he recommends that we trash the Bill of Rights and mimic the practices of foreign despots.”

I believe Gingrich has lost his mind.  The next thing we know Gingrich, Palin, and the rest of those right wing Republicans will be demanding that “we the people” trash our Republic because some dictator out there doesn’t have one.

“Your Flag Decal Won’t Get You Into Heavon Anymore”

  Prine…..........................................

One can understand why iranian mullahs hate america.
They just cannot stomach dealing with a future la presidenta.
For ulema [body of mullahs] there cannot be anything worse than having to talk with a smallhead.

Ok, palin is not yet la presidenta. But just the thought by the bigheads of dealing with a smallhead must drive them to lunacy!

Btw, that’s why bigheads in US chose a small head to deal now with males of iran.

However, the bigheads of iran think exactly like class one, two, three americans. So, what’s going on between the two fascistic empires?

They tell, it is actually ‘jews’ who hate iran [tho only mullahs] and not americans; exception being hillary, and her daughter!

Too bad about christians losing another soul, but not to islam, but talmudism. That, my friends, is nevertheless a casus belli to christianity. tnx

Joe conason needs to study US history as well. If i was his history teacher, the first conclusion [but resting on facts] i would reveal to him would be that US constitution is the greatest evil that befel indigenes of america, palestinians, iraqis, and pashtuns.

On the other hand, to class #1, 2, 3 US is the best thing that happened to them.
It helps joe’s cause that imams, muftis always side with fascists.

So do rabbis and priests. So, what’s up with a mosque, sinagogue, or church. And palin knows there are much more christo-talmudniks than islamists.
And election is coming unless iran destroys US!

gerard—talking about ‘tolerance’ sounds like ‘liberal piety’ to thugs like Palin and Gingrich.

We don’t need to imitate China, Japan—or Saudi Arabia, as the “Ground Zero Mosque” protesters desire.  We have a Constitution that says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”  Those of the knuckledragging clan who can read should try reading it.

hello. you are losing me with these anectdotal directions. these are two powerful people, apparently brainwashed by the CentralIdiotsAgency, speaking alike children regarding religious liberty, and gaming a relatively tiny country named Saudi Arabia. they make sound bites more valuable than truth, and are as phony as the next thing. they are allowed a free ride of unaccountabilty for their views in place of corrective challenges to their opinions, because their popularity makes media dollars. these are practicing no- account government professionals perfect for higher office.

MIllions of muslims in the world voluntarily waive the religious rights the author
passionately defends. They deny these rights to their own citizens. Most believe
that Islam must conquer the world and Sharia law must be instituted everywhere.
Abandoning Islam is punishable by death in many of their countries.

In the context of these beliefs, how can he defend them?

Paul GA:  But, but, but ... Jefferson was a well educated man, unlike millions of Americans. A bit further, though I don’t want to go there either:
Jefferson held slaves, perhaps uneasily.
  So who’s responsible for the retrograde condition of the Christian churches generally?  The same class as those who inhibit the liberalization of Islam—the priestly heirarchy and the governments that support them.  Irony:  Of course that support is “freedom of religion” too! And then (dragged in kicking and screaming) there’s Israel,  and Zionism to boot.
  Ref.:  See Japan.  Buddhism, Confusionism, Christianity and the native Shintoism, all pretty much in bed together, more or less happily absorbed. Shinto for formal weddings, crops and much more; Buddha for funerals, meditation and much more; Christ for those who adopt it by choice, and Confusius absorbed into the culture along with other influences from ancient China. We could take a lesson in tolerance from this if we weren’t so uptight about who believes what.

At times like this, I think on the wisdom of Thomas Jefferson: “It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”

I have to say it’s kind of weird to see the ADL lining up with fascists, racists and bigots.  I guess they’ve gone all the way over to the dark side.

Islam, christianity, and talmudism appear strongly against equality in earnings, peace; and are disrespectful to some humans. tnx

So true FiftyGigs ... and while they’re at it, they should ban Mormons from cable TV.  Especially if they’re fat ugly Mormons who say really stupid things.

RE CONASON: “the former speaker of the House and a former Republican vice presidential candidate. . .  are campaigning against “the 9/11 mosque.”

You forgot the Anti Defamation League, Joe.  Unfortunately, they’ve also become involved in the campaign against “the 9/11 mosque,” which is surprising to say the least.  It seems like only yesterday the ADL was on the defensive in regard to Mel Gibson’s movie, “The Passion of Christ,”  which the ADL felt promoted the notion that the Jews were responsible for Crucifixion of Christ:

Q. What was your impression of the film?

ADL.”. . . We were saddened and pained to find that “The Passion of the Christ” continues its unambiguous portrayal of Jews as being responsible for the death of Jesus. .  .  At every single opportunity, Mr. Gibson’s film reinforces the notion that the Jewish authorities and the Jewish mob are the ones ultimately responsible for the Crucifixion. “

Q. ADL has said the film could fuel anti-Semitism. How so? 

ADL. “We fear the consequences of this film. There will be many people who are not so familiar with the Gospel narratives and might believe that everything they see on the film derives directly from the New Testament .  .  . We are also concerned about those who already are disposed unfavorably toward Jews and will use this to fan the flames of hatred.”

Q. Mel Gibson has stated that many people are calling him an anti-Semite. What is ADL’s position?

A. “ADL and its representatives have never accused Mr. Gibson of being an anti-Semite. We do not know what is in his heart. We only know what he has put on the movie screen. The images there show Romans who behave with compassion toward Jesus. . . The Jews, on the other hand, are depicted as blood-thirsty. The Jewish High Priest, Caiaphas, is shown as bullying Pilate, and the hundreds and hundreds of amassed Jews demanding Jesus’ death.”

Q. Are Jewish fears about the film exaggerated? After all, it is only a movie.

ADL. “It has been said that Mr. Gibson’s film represents the greatest tool for evangelization that has ever existed.  .  . we are concerned about the film’s impact in Europe, South America and the Middle East, places where anti-Semitism already exists. . . .  As anti-Semitism increases around the globe, many are using the age-old deicide charge to legitimize and foment hatred against Jews. Our concerns have already become an excuse for an outpouring of anti-Semitism. Since going public with our concerns about the film, ADL and other Jewish organizations have been flooded with hate-filled e-mails, letters and phone calls.”

http://www.adl.org/interfaith/gibson_qa.asp

I happen to agree with Republicans on this one, and I think we need to go further.

Clearly, Mormonism is an obscenity to God—my religious leader says so—so, in the interest of protecting America, we need to ban Mormons from Washington. I mean, why allow those harrowing people near the sacred seat of our freedom?

But Joe , it makes such good media fodder,  I mean heck

if journalists can get as much milage as they do out

of Sara Palin,  why not a Muslim Mosque, after all ,

the U.S. is trying to get the citizenry hyped fo an

attack on Israel.