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Rocky Anderson Is Crashing the Third Party

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Posted on Apr 25, 2012
AP/Douglas C. Pizac

Rocky Anderson gained national attention with his opposition to the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003 and his call for the impeachment of President George W. Bush.

By Bill Boyarsky

Rocky Anderson seems like a sensible man, from the conservative cut of his clothes to his practical experience gained during two terms as mayor of Salt Lake City. And though he is a dedicated progressive, opposing the Obama administration’s police state tendencies, he has a calm, reasoned manner that must have reassured clients in his 21 years as a lawyer.

Do you honestly think, I asked the former mayor, that you will be elected president of the United States? “I think it’s very unlikely,” he said, “but if we are able to get our message out to the American people, amazing things can happen.”

I still didn’t get it. “Why are you pursuing this improbable goal?” I asked.

“Because I passionately believe all of us have to put our talent and abilities to use to reverse the dangerous track our country is on,” he said. “The Constitution is being eviscerated, and a majority of Americans are less economically secure because of the disparity in wealth and income.”

Anderson—his given name is Ross—and I talked after he and another (to put it kindly) long-shot presidential candidate, former Louisiana Gov. Buddy Roemer, were on a panel titled “The Year of the Independent—Can a Third Party Candidate Be Elected?”

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They are competing for the nomination of Americans Elect, founded and funded by wealthy financiers to select a third-party presidential candidate online. Most of the donors’ names aren’t known because Americans Elect is classified as a social welfare organization, not a political party, exempting it from donor disclosure. The group wants a centrist, a classification that the strongly liberal Anderson doesn’t fit into.

Those voters who sign up will cast ballots in May for six finalists for the nomination. The nominee will be selected online in June on the Americans Elect website. The organization has made it to the ballot of 25 states so far, including California and the battleground states of Ohio, Michigan, Florida and Colorado, at a cost of $50 million. The group aims to make it onto all 50 state ballots. While unlikely to win, the Americans Elect candidate could be a force in a tight election.

Roemer is a former conservative Democratic congressman who was elected governor of Louisiana in 1988, then switched to the Republican Party. He served until 1992. He campaigned for the Republican presidential nomination this year but didn’t get enough support in public opinion polls to reach the eligibility threshold for the debates. And because he wouldn’t take any campaign contribution over $100, or any contributions from PACs, he doesn’t have much money.

He’s an accomplished speaker, with a booming voice, unlike Anderson’s, and a Southern populist style. Among the candidates in the first Republican debates, Roemer would have been noticed. “Listen to me, America,” he said at the panel. “Quit saying there is a difference [between Democrats and Republicans]. ... They are weak, weak, weak.”

I had gone to the panel discussion, at Los Angeles’ Hammer Museum, to check out the third-party movement and to interview Anderson at the suggestion of his press secretary, Charlotte Scot. Anderson was interesting. He was the first mayor of a major U.S. city to call for President George W. Bush’s impeachment. But he worked closely with Mitt Romney, who was in charge of the 2002 Salt Lake City Winter Olympics. “He did a great job,” Anderson said. They endorsed each other, Anderson for Romney’s Massachusetts gubernatorial candidacy, Romney for Anderson’s mayoral re-election.

I have been intrigued by third-party candidates and sometimes angered, as I was by Ralph Nader, whom I blame for Al Gore’s loss in the 2000 presidential election.

Anderson, who has been endorsed by Nader, doesn’t agree. He believes Gore lost the election simply by not getting enough votes.

The Utahan laid out his indictment of President Barack Obama in a quiet manner.

The Obama administration “will leave a far less secure world for later generations,” he said. “Congress stands by while the president assumes power to make war. We continue to kidnap and disappear people around the world. ... We have the power to indefinitely detain U.S. citizens without trial. I would never in my wildest dreams imagine this could happen to my country.”

Roemer must get 1,000 computer clicks in each of 10 states to make it to the Americans Elect online convention in June. Anderson, because he was mayor of a city not among the largest, needs 5,000 clicks each in 10 states—the barrier facing any candidate who wasn’t a governor, big-company CEO, member of Congress or comparable big shot.

These requirements suggest that the secretive financiers behind Americans Elect want to put their own choice on the organization’s ballot line in the 50 states rather than a progressive such as Anderson or a wild-card populist like Roemer. Ed Kilgore warned of this on his Political Animal blog, raising the possibility of “a shadowy group of elites” choosing “someone who could have a perverse effect on the outcome of a close presidential election.”

The worst danger of Americans Elect is its dedication to a so-called centrist candidate. Pushing this idea is Americans Elect booster Tom Friedman, the New York Times columnist, who loves Mayor Michael Bloomberg. “I still hope Michael Bloomberg will reconsider running for president as an independent candidate, if only to participate in the presidential debates and give our two-party system the shock it needs,” he wrote on April 17.

That’s all we need: Wall Street Bloomberg. His police department, The Associated Press revealed in a Pulitzer Prize-winning series, spied on daily life in Muslim communities. And there’s the long-running controversy over allegations of NYPD racial profiling.

Bloomberg would not be a candidate who could force a debate on government abuse of police powers—national, state and local—as Rocky Anderson would. If we must have a third party—and I’m not endorsing this idea—let it amount to something more than putting up a centrist candidate who won’t offer a clear alternative to our present choices.


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By heterochromatic, May 5, 2012 at 8:19 am Link to this comment

it’s not that I’m unfriendly so much as not in sympathy.

I twice sent comments to Al-Manar, but to date neither has been published by
them folks.

Report this

By Korky Day, May 5, 2012 at 7:28 am Link to this comment

I read the long Wikipedia article on Al-Manar TV, which “heterochromatic” mentions.  I don’t know if I want to spend “a few days” on it, though, as “heterochromatic” is an unfriendly stranger to me.  I don’t see much relevance to this discussion of Rocky Anderson.

I’ve never watched Al-Manar, though it seems like it is a good balance to Fox-TV.
I agree with my Green Party’s position on the Israeli-Palestinian war.  I’m for peace through accommodation to the needs of all people, not the current dominance by the Zionists.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 4, 2012 at 8:50 pm Link to this comment

Please say what else you’d like me to comment on.

———

I’d like you to comment on Al-Manar TV for a few days….

then get back to us.

Report this

By Korky Day, May 4, 2012 at 8:18 pm Link to this comment

Thanks, “heterochromatic”, for your ideas.
I commented on each of your points (3:40 pm).
Please say what else you’d like me to comment on.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 4, 2012 at 6:26 pm Link to this comment

Korky, personally, i think that you’re entitled not to read or completely ignore
what it was that I wrote and just blather on, but it surely means that you shouldn’t
much ask people for opinions if you’re not going to respond to what you’re
soliciting.


makes me want to introduce you to a fun pole.

Report this
BR549's avatar

By BR549, May 4, 2012 at 5:50 pm Link to this comment

JH Gordon, May 4 at 8:56 am Link to this comment
(@ BR549)  I understand your point about third party candidates not having sense enough to pull out and pass their support on to the lesser of two evil candidates.

JH, what I was actually referring to was less popular third party candidates bowing out in enough time to corral their supporters into then supporting still remaining third party candidates and on down the third party line. ......... so that they don’t make the same mistake I did after Ron Paul dropped out in 2008 ..... by voting for that treasonous White House shoe shine attendant. And I though Bush and Clinton were the only ones who knew how to sabotage the Constitution; Obama makes them look like amateurs.

But back to third party voting, ...... somewhere along the line, Anderson, Paul, Stein and the raft of other candidates really need to start communicating with each other and stop believing that each of them is the only show in town. Up to now, each of these people has basically dropped out and left their supporters to fend for themselves, when, if there were a more unified third party mindset among those outside the duopoly, that third party would easily out distance the best that the duopoly had to offer.

Of course, once the third party came into power, then the globalist bankers would be hard at work trying to corrupt third party candidates; that’s before they had to start threatening either them or their family members. That’s how these people work.
So for those TDers still hanging in there with all that Hope and Change crap, perhaps they can explain the following, dated 2010:
US Army Internment and Resettlement Operations FM 3-39.40
http://www.picassodreams.com/files/usarmy-internmentresettlement.pdf

I would encourage anyone still sitting on the fence to check out Sec. 3.56; the part about “identifying political activists” for their PSYOP Operations; one of many topics one should question. And I’ll bet they thought this was just conspiracy theory. The sad part is that this is just one teeny-tiny little part of what is going on under people’s noses and why our taxes dollars have consistently been drained to support the building of underground complexes for the wealthy along with a myriad of internment camps; somewhere around 900 across the country by now. And what do you want to bet that if third party support does get immensely high, that we have some staged false flag event to force us into martial law and cancel the elections. We really are that close to something like that ...... while people keep anesthetizing themselves with Sean Hannity and the rest of those drooling media sloths.

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By Korky Day, May 4, 2012 at 5:28 pm Link to this comment

“heterochromatic” has not voted in the poll, but states a position on 3 of the 54 options, so far, which are at

http://www.demochoice.org/dcballot.php?poll=DemoRefUS .

Any of you can vote there, too, still.

“heterochromatic” states opposition to:
—Make fair treaties with First Nations.—
—Mandatory voting.—

and support for:
—No Electoral College.—

Personally, I think that opposition to those treaties is genocidal, racist, and imperialist.
I prefer Voter tax rebate to Mandatory voting, but would settle for the latter.
We agree on only one, so far, dumping the Electoral College.

Here are the other 51 options on that poll, most of which I personally support:

Legislators read bills before vote.
Congress declare war before attack.
Save voters’ lives—no forced drugging.
Verifiable voting.
Count all votes.
Allow re-call elections everywhere.
Fair, mandatory debates.
Let minors vote.
Ban pork-barrel budgets.
Restore Constitution.
End gerry-mandering.
Referendum on Constitution.
Opposition questions officials weekly.
Voter ID rules not stricter.
No buying elections.
Let all adult citizens vote.
Break up media monopolies.
Constitutional convention every 12 years.
Save voters’ lives—health insurance.
Save voters’ lives—more police.
Non-partisan elections.
Save voters’ lives—minimum income.
Non-partisan election officials.
Court can’t stop re-count.
Instant run-offs.
Election day holiday.
Answer all petitions for redress.
All lobbying broadcast on Web.
Ban filibusters.
Legislatures 1/2 women.
National referenda.
Save voters’ lives—no military draft.
Full voter registration at public cost.
Internet voting.
“None of above” ballot option.
Rotating presidency.
Save voters’ lives—civilian police review.
Voter tax rebate.
Legislators picked at random.
Representation of people not land.
Restore “fairness doctrine”.
Paper ballots.
Other.
Save voters’ lives—no death penalty.
Free voter ID provided.
Restore rule of law.
100 signatures to get on ballot.
Public-funded candidate campaigns.
Term limits.
Proportional representation in legislatures.
Election for each cabinet post.

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By heterochromatic, May 4, 2012 at 4:40 pm Link to this comment

thank you Korky…
and responding to the support for these three things…....

Round 1        
  9.1%
Make fair treaties with First Nations.    1.00   (33.3%)   
       
Mandatory voting.    1.00   (33.3%)   
       
No Electoral College.


id ont agree with making any new treaties with “First Nations” I would be
perfectly fine with offering them any number of things, but I see their
“sovereignty ” as a threadbare legal fiction at this time.


I’m utterly opposed to mandatory voting.


I do support scrapping the Electoral College.

Report this

By Korky Day, May 4, 2012 at 3:54 pm Link to this comment

Last I checked, 3 people have voted in that new poll.
196 have voted in another of my polls there, posted earlier.  No, you don’t have to prove citizenship.  It’s a fun poll, not scientific.  (The polls that the governments in the USA set up are neither fun nor scientific.)

While not scientific, the DemoChoice polls are superior to the official polls and the commercial pollsters in some ways.  For instance, my DemoChoice polls count those voting for none.  Also you voters rank your choices.

Nevertheless, what I wanted most from “heterochromatic” was an opinion of how many reforms the public are demanding.  After reading the options I challenge anyone to maintain that the USA has only a few little “flaws” in its (alleged) democracy.

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By Korky Day, May 4, 2012 at 3:43 pm Link to this comment

Another proof that the Duopoly does not enjoy enthusiastic public support is the disgracefully low voter turn-out.  The only enthusiasm in the entire Duopoly lately in the presidential race is in 3 quite distinct groups:  the 0.1%, Mormons, and supporters of Ron Paul.  The last of those 3 are generally trying to defeat the Duopoly, not become it.  But if Rocky Anderson or my Green Party’s Jill Stein can gather enough steam, great!

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By heterochromatic, May 4, 2012 at 3:38 pm Link to this comment

Korky—- probably because I skimmed too quickly, but I didn’t notice a the
number of people who participated in that poll…....

or any indication of whether they were US citizens…


If you can help me toward that info, I’ll be happy to opine on your poll.

Report this

By Korky Day, May 4, 2012 at 3:26 pm Link to this comment

I agree wholeheartedly with the most recent comments by “JH Gordon”.  I wasn’t trying to say that media freedom is not important, only that other factors have always been more the cause of blocked democracy in the USA.  See my previous comment.

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By Korky Day, May 4, 2012 at 3:20 pm Link to this comment

“heterochromatic” is still pushing the idea that the USA is a flawed democracy, not (as I maintain) a pseudo-democracy.  I think I draw the line more honestly than apologists for the rulers of the USA (not “the people”!).

Vote in my fun, non-profit poll at

http://www.demochoice.org/dcballot.php?poll=DemoRefUS

Perhaps “heterochromatic” would like to tell us his/her opinion of that poll and its vote tally so far—and of other important polls at DemoChoice.

Report this

By JH Gordon, May 4, 2012 at 1:38 pm Link to this comment

Korky Day

I think press freedom is more important than not. That we have such a low ranking in press freedom means we have a higher ranking in something else; propaganda (bullshit).

With the internet we may see a lot of garbage, but it’s far more effective than the “broadsides” that used to be banned by the Redcoats. There’s lots of internet graffiti with many a complaint against a system gone wrong. Everyone is trying to make a point. And, everyone has a point. The point is at this point, it’s all chaos.

But out of chaos comes order. There will be points we all accept whether we are to the right or left of any political persuasion. We may have to personally think about the meaning of freedom and the meaning of democracy, but eventually everyone will get the point we have neither. We have school yard bullies.

We can agree that 50% of everybody graduated in the lower half of their class. Why then should inherited wealth, and family name, mean political power goes to the intellectual myopic spawn of the elite? Why do they get to be the bullies? Because we don’t have a democracy and they control it and our tax system and our elections and our banks with our money.

Government isn’t bought with taxes, it’s bought with tax deductions. Government officials, by means of the Tax Code, receive diverted tax revenues into their political pockets. Why doesn’t everybody get that news? Why doesn’t anyone raise the question? Where are the investigative reporters? Well, they’re on the internet but they ain’t on MSNBC or on FOX. And if they even tried it, the hue and cry would have them silenced, discredited, or worse.

Press freedom is OUR means of controlling out of control systems and exposing fraud. How else would we know?

This isn’t about right or left wing commentary or political leaning. It’s about the elite tweaking the slots, shaving the corners, and loading the dice.

Capitalism got all dirty when it got uncontrolled. Uncontrolled it became Naziism not that long ago. And we have families in government now that had their grubby little paws in that one too. Now, we see it again. Business dictates to government overtly, subversively, and insidiously with our cash. Those tax deductions I was talking about? Well, where’s the news?

When the bully’s spawn can control markets they dictate not only what we can have but how much of it. They make the rules. We buy the shiny bauble or the tennis shoes because we then belong to the club.

Look, the news doesn’t tell us that America got sold the dream of home ownership. the banks set up fog-a-mirror loans, sold them to pension plans, turned them into derivatives, misrepresented their risk, then crashed the market intentionally. No news there.

The people stand around saying where are the protections our government was supposed to provide? Why do we pay our taxes?

Economic fraud was allowed by our government. That’s malfeasance. We got waltzed into a couple of false flag wars and a lot of people got richer and a lot of people got dead based on bullshit. Would you call that treason? Nobody in the news did. I wonder if they were free to do so? Or did the Board of Directors frown?

JH Gordon
Fireclosure
How to burn down Wall St. and get away with it.
http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/98807

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By BR549, May 4, 2012 at 1:38 pm Link to this comment

Korky Day, May 4 at 7:40 am Link to this comment
“Anarcissie” implies that the public wants the Democratic and Republican parties to rule, since the voters always vote for those parties overwhelmingly.
False!  That many voters vote for the Duopoly only because they get scared by the spoiler syndrome into voting for the lesser of 2 evils.”

Bingo, Korky! Those people who are stuck still believing that the duopolistic system is still working are in for a rude awakening. If it was actually working all that well, how do they explain why we always go further into the crapper no matter which of the major parties gets into office?

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 4, 2012 at 1:21 pm Link to this comment

Korky, really and truly, a flawed democracy is really not identical to not being a
democracy at all.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 4, 2012 at 1:19 pm Link to this comment

Gordon—I took your statement literally as saying that we had the lowest level of
press freedom in the world….. that I found to be a stupid statement and still think
stupid…I can only again express that I’m happy that it wasn’t what you really
meant to say.

Report this

By Korky Day, May 4, 2012 at 12:22 pm Link to this comment

Some naively consider the USA still to be a democracy in spite of all the evidence, such as lack of press freedom, which is one of the least of the reasons that the USA has never been a democracy.

Report this

By JH Gordon, May 4, 2012 at 12:19 pm Link to this comment

heterochromatic

Oh, don’t apologize for making an appropriate response when you make one. So far you haven’t.

There’s a distinct difference between being wrong and being stupid. Your comment however, was both. That’s not to mention insulting.

But, as the oh so clever and perfect wordsmith you imagine yourself to be, I can only say, a critic is a perfect son of a bitch in an imperfect world.

That we agree on the US ranking too low regarding press freedom is remarkable since we’re liable to argue over who, of the two of us, is the bigger son of a bitch.

JH Gordon
Fireclosure
How to burn down Wall St. and get away with it.
http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/98807

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 4, 2012 at 11:55 am Link to this comment

Gordon—thank you for explaining and clarifying….. I agree that press freedom in
the US is less than it should be or I would have it be…...and I’m sorry if I offered an
appropriate response to what you wrote rather than what you meant to write.

you might even notice that I published the same link that you just did.

Report this

By JH Gordon, May 4, 2012 at 11:27 am Link to this comment

heterochromatic-

Sorry for the poor sentence construction. My question is ‘why should freedom of the press be lower in America than it would be in any country?’

We should be first in freedom of the press. Or do you disagree with that? We are ranked 47th according to the survey below. Not pretty…

http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2011-2012,1043.html

Now, I have a question for you; Do pithy comments and insults win you a lot of friends?

JH Gordon
Fireclosure
How to burn down Wall St. and get away with it.
http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/98807

Report this

By JH Gordon, May 4, 2012 at 10:49 am Link to this comment

St3nci1,
Hi and thanks for the positive comment. Nothing is more important than getting Americans to remember why we have elections. That the system is so warped by big money now is the reason we have democracy in name only. We’re suckers and everyone in the world knows except us.

The 1% (I never liked that term) choose our candidates, fund the campaigns, propagandize our elections, and then have K Street lobbyists carry bag money and mimeographed legislation to our public servants. Here’s the real sucker’s bummer, they do it with our money. They steal democracy for free.

We Americans are distracted and confused by the 1% and they use our own money to do it. All the costs of their power grab are deductible from corporate income taxes (not their profits).

Money that should be going to our national Treasury is diverted into buying political influence. They spend none of their own money to do it. They spend yours (and mine).

If we federally funded elections (Obama brags about raising a Billion Bucks for his campaign this season) we’d save hundreds of millions. Even if we paid for every election in America all the way down to town council in Resume Speed Nebraska we’d have Democracy back. Isn’t it worth it?

There should be only one currency in our elections: Votes.

And without powerful political parties playing high fast hanging chad games, we might have more honest results. We’d have grass roots political parties without the smoke filled back room politics.

If we Federally fund elections, political parties would be many and candidates diverse. Citizens that wish to serve would have a chance to do so instead of facing powerful political machines.

We all tend to believe both the GOP and the Democratic Party and essentially the same, funded by the same (can’t lose) people and organizations. There’s one word for that; Monopoly. It’s time we broke them up. It’s time for the ruling class to be equal. It’s time for us to buying their political power. God this is simple. Am I the only one who sees it. Our Emperors are naked and it’s not a pretty sight. 

What if we had fair and accessible elections? What if votes actually counted?

How long before we’d stop having wars for profit if your vote counted? Or how long would the tax code make it profitable to export jobs? How long would it take before George Bush, Dick Cheney, and a bunch of corporate bankers and profiteers made a run for it to a country without an extradition treaty?

We need the Tax Code changed. No deductions for political contributions. Citizens United doesn’t have to shut up, just convince stockholders to spend profits. With a cap of a hundred bucks, we can use that money…

JH Gordon
Fireclosure
How to burn down Wall St. and get away with it.
http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/98807
Really, it’s just fiction, honest.

Report this

By heterochromatic, May 4, 2012 at 10:14 am Link to this comment

——Why is out freedom of press ranking lower than any other country’s?;;;;;

this would be funny were it not so stupid and sad….think it’s you that’s rank and
low with this claim.

Report this

By JH Gordon, May 4, 2012 at 9:56 am Link to this comment

BR549, (It’s difficult to reply on this site. I hope you see this.)

I understand your point about third party candidates not having sense enough to pull out and pass their support on to the lesser of two evil candidates. But there is a point Ross Anderson makes that is very valid; we live in an age in which grass roots actions can and do go viral.

I’m reminded of the newspaper photograph of Harry Truman grinning as he held up the newspaper with the headline “Dewey Wins!”. In other words, it could happen.

The thing I like about Rocky is not who he is or (especially) where he hails from, but what he is saying. I like the idea of a Justice Party and I mean the justice part. I’d like to see America’s image restored in the eyes of the world. I’d like us to remember what we are and who we are and what kind of government we Require.

Democracy has been stolen from us. Our votes count for nothing. And our interests and laughed at by a rubber stamp bought a paid for political system. That’s not what our Declaration of Independence said to King George. In fact, everything said in it is now a lie. The world knows it. We are kept spinning and in the dark. We’ve lost our national conversation and our national identity.

Why is out freedom of press ranking lower than any other country’s? That alone should be enough to piss of America in spades. But we have become complacent and forgotten the words “the price of freedom is eternal vigilance”.

We’ve forgotten because we’re kept off balance, divided, and bamboozled by the same kind of mentality that made the Lord of the manner powerful and the Serfs mindless slaves.

The Lord of the manner up to and including the antebellum slave owners of the south were at least responsible for the well being of their charges. Now, we have rampant poverty, ignorance, and a horrible health care system all controlled by a near police state. Nobody got 49 acres and a mule out of the deal so far.

I think Rocky has a chance if you, I, and a lot of others convince our friends to just listen to him. Listen to the America that should be. Hear what we believe we should be but no longer are. And remember, the world knows we are deluded. We’re no longer the place where people strive to be if they want freedom and a better life. We’re suckers because we won’t listen to the only candidate saying we need money out of politics and we need to put people who rob us and mislead us and commit war crimes in jail. We are suckers.

JH Gordon
Fireclosure
How to burn down Wall St. and get away with it.
http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/98807
It’s all fiction.

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By Korky Day, May 4, 2012 at 8:40 am Link to this comment

“Anarcissie” implies that the public wants the Democratic and Republican parties to rule, since the voters always vote for those parties overwhelmingly.

False!  That many voters vote for the Duopoly only because they get scared by the spoiler syndrome into voting for the lesser of 2 evils.

When the voters think that another party has a chance, they can easily bolt, as they did to Jesse Ventura, and almost did to Ross Perot, who would have won had he not temporarily dropped out of the contest in 1992 (according to Wikipedia).

As far as other countries, most with democracy, or even pseudo-democracy, are better ruled than the pseudo-democratic USA.

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By Anarcissie, May 4, 2012 at 7:28 am Link to this comment

BR549, May 3 at 12:54 pm:

‘,,,Instead, they all race as far as they can and
they sabotage the will of the majority of voters time
and time again.’

Thus far the will of the majority of voters has been
to vote overwhelmingly for one of the two candidates
of the two major parties, so I don’t see how their
will has been frustrated.  It has made absolutely no
difference whether the other candidates combined
their efforts or remained independent of one another;
together, they would not have carried a single
electoral district, so they might as well have
continued to run separately.

Without a nationwide support system reaching down to
local levels, none of them could be elected and if
they were elected none of them could govern.  The
total focus on the presidency betokens a level of
analysis worthy of grade-school pretend-elections.

As for the opinion of foreign countries, I see no
reason to believe that any of their populations are
less nasty and self-absorbed than our own.  A leader
of noble appearance will be applauded briefly, and
then it’s back to business.

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By St3nci1, May 4, 2012 at 7:03 am Link to this comment

I like Joel’s argument, on a side note, Mona, how does
one post inside another’s thread?

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By BR549, May 3, 2012 at 1:54 pm Link to this comment

Joel,
As long as third party supporters keep supporting their favorite candidates all the way to the finish line and those candidates keep massaging their own egos, we all lose. What we need is for these candidates to actually start supporting each other through more open endorsement as they progressively bow out. But if we have four, five or more independents all scratching for whatever crumbs they can get on election day, instead of biting the bullet and pulling the plug early enough, again, we all lose.

Instead, they all race as far as they can and they sabotage the will of the majority of voters time and time again.

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By Joel, May 2, 2012 at 10:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“We leave a far less secure world for future generations” 

IF Rocky Anderson were President, would we actually prosecute war criminals? Would Bush and Cheney actually have to answer for false flag wars?

If so, the perception of America would change in the eyes and minds of the world. We would secure the future for generations to come IF we just did what was expected of Americans.

There has been a grave injustice visited on the world by inhumane men. Those men should be indicted and prosecuted. Let them defend their actions in court.

They participated in the crashing of our economy as surely as they faked the reasons for war. They should face that charge as well. 10,000,000 homes have been lost to a corrupt system since 2006 and a million more expected in 2012.

JH Gordon
Fireclosure
http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/98807

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Mona's avatar

By Mona, April 28, 2012 at 10:23 am Link to this comment

Oh, another third party candidate besides Jill Stein and Stuart Alexander, is Buddy Roemer.

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By Mona, April 28, 2012 at 10:18 am Link to this comment

There is also Jill Stein and Stuart Alexander running, if people are looking for 3rd party alternatives.

Our elections system is so corrupt and disfunctional, I have little expectation of a presidential run-off beyond the usual smaller differences between pubc and dems in their one pub dem party.  Which can be major enough in people’s lives, if it means the difference between a health bill passing that outlaws preexisting conditions, and so on down the list they are forever “teasing” us with.

I am looking for work, so whether or not I am employed before the elections will have a lot to do with how I weigh out my decision.

In the meantime, if this bothers people of good conscience and intelligence, you should be OUT ON STRIKE MAY 1st with Occupy Wall Street and the rest of the outraged humans of this planet.

Don’t go to work, don’t go to school, don’t do any housework, go to an occupy demonstration near you, try to walk or bike-ride only, spend the day at home with family and friends, or just reading a book.

But most importantly, don’t spend any money.

Get more information about activities near you at http://occupywallst.org/article/may-day/

If you are outraged or in despair over the circus of a corporate political system we are enslaved to - make your voice count in the GENERAL STRIKE MAY 1st.

Love,

Mona

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By Korky Day, April 27, 2012 at 8:26 pm Link to this comment

The entire world agrees that the USA is a genuine democracy, according to “heterochromatic”, ignoring the USA’s enemies’ opinions.

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By heterochromatic, April 27, 2012 at 7:05 pm Link to this comment

the definitions are world-wide, Korky…....you’re entitled to your own world, but
not entitled to pretend that there isn’t another one, rather more heavily populated.

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By Korky Day, April 27, 2012 at 7:01 pm Link to this comment

The victors in a war write their reference books to justify their actions as defensive.  Likewise, the victors in a rigged election write those books to describe that election as democratic.

Judge for yourself.

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By heterochromatic, April 27, 2012 at 6:06 pm Link to this comment

(my definition, not the mainstream media’s ....or the ones in the dictionaries,
academic usage or common parlance)

fixed that for you, KD.

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By Korky Day, April 27, 2012 at 5:49 pm Link to this comment

There is a much more important way that Al Gore lost himself the election of 2000.  While vice president for 8 years, with not much to do, he failed to activate for electoral reform so that elections would be democratic ever after.

Reforms such as instant run-off; fair, mandatory debates; no Electoral College; campaign spending limits; election day holiday; full voter registration; voter tax rebate; fair ballot access; de-monopolized media ownership; and many other improvements desperately needed before US Americans can brag that they have a genuine democracy (my definition, not the mainstream media’s).

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By Anarcissie, April 27, 2012 at 5:18 pm Link to this comment

Five percent.  About ten percent of the people who vote actually vote on ideology, principle, or the known record of the candidates.  In bad times, when it is irrational to vote for the center, we can assume that half of them will vote Left and half will vote Right.  There will be some drift to the center by the timid, the simple-minded, and the perplexed, but the deficit will be made up by those who vote at random if you can put a ballot in their path—this is where the money comes in.

Five percent is enough to change the outcome of a close election—even a not-so-close election.  Hence the major parties have to take care of their fringes.  This is no problem for the Democrats, apparently.

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By heterochromatic, April 27, 2012 at 5:05 pm Link to this comment

despite what we might like,  presenting candidates further to the left of the Dems
in a national election is, at present, not going to draw more than one or two per
cent ....even with a well-funded campaign.

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By Anarcissie, April 27, 2012 at 4:43 pm Link to this comment

heterochromatic, April 27 at 1:18 pm:

‘... but it’s not all that surprising that the third-party approach is looking to draw from the center because that’s where the available votes are….....not at the extremes.’

Curious if so, but we do have the example of Perot’s Reform Party before us—middle-of-the-roaders who thought of themselves are daring rebels.

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By heterochromatic, April 27, 2012 at 2:18 pm Link to this comment

Lefty McS—-

“Odd that American elect is seeking a centrist candidate.  They already have one
in the incumbent President Obama.  Some might argue that he is actually
center-right, in spite of his recent more progressive tone meant to pull (or is
that lull) voters into his fold.”

—-
good points. Obama has indeed governed as a centrist and, with the full force
of the congress pushing to the right, the overall government has been slightly
right of center…...


but it’s not all that surprising that the third-party approach is looking to draw
from the center because that’s where the available votes are….....not at the
extremes.

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By heterochromatic, April 26, 2012 at 5:52 pm Link to this comment

TD—- why does the state court deserve respect ...and more of it than SCOTUS?

Nothing about the process in Florida deserved respect, the case was kicked
around the Florida courts and I remember few people being satisfied and
trusting of Florida to settle up the mess that they made.

However, I do appreciate the point that SCOTUS should have ducked, let Florida
continue to fart around counting votes and have one or the other of the
candidates continue to challange the actions of the Florida officials in Florida
courts for a few more weeks…...

A pretty good attorney named Chemerinsky published an article saying that
SCOTUS shouldn’t have accepted the case because they had no right to accept
it…..


http://tinyurl.com/6n4auk9

if anyone enjoys this stuff.

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By Ron Ranft, April 26, 2012 at 2:43 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Simply amazing that Boyarsky still blames Nader for Gores loss when even Gore himself has debunked that myth time and again. I blame Gore for Nader’s loss. As Ralph said, “it is better to vote your conscience and lose than it is to vote for the winner and then feel betrayed.” And a lot of former Obama voters feel exactly that way. Because a Romney win is just totally unacceptable many Americans will either hold their noses and vote for Obysmal again or they will not vote and Obysmal will eek out a win. Once again I will vote my conscience. Until Americans realize that their only hope is a third party candidate this country will continue its ever increasing decline into a muddled and irrelevant third world country run by anf for the rich!

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By Troy Davis, April 26, 2012 at 2:13 pm Link to this comment

@hetero:

Obviously, if the SCOTUS had respected the Florida State Supreme Court, the vote recount would have moved forward and one or the other candidate would have won the election.

There was absolutely no need for the SCOTUS to interfere in any way with the vote recount. They got involved to hand the election to Bush. The only other decision worse than Bush V.Gore was the Citizens United case.

@Byard:

I did not mean imply that Bush was a war criminal in 2000. I realize he did not officially become a war criminal until after 9/11 when he authorized torture in contravention of International law. He and Cheney both should be brought before the Hague and put on trial for war crimes.

Unfortunately, America won the wars and the victor can also commit war crimes with impunity.

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By Korky Day, April 26, 2012 at 1:07 pm Link to this comment

Americans Elect might be a total trick.
However, it doesn’t cost anything to compete in their e-contest, so why not?, if it gets Jill Stein or Rocky Anderson or Ron Paul a free ballot line in every state?!

The “man behind the curtain” at AE just might be foiled.
Ron Paul is way ahead in the vote at the moment at
http://www.americanselect.org

As far as uniting all the anti-Duopolists, I’m all in favour.

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By Byard Pidgeon, April 26, 2012 at 1:05 pm Link to this comment

Troy Davis…there’s a serious inaccuracy in your comment!
George W. Bush wasn’t a “war criminal” when he was
elected/appointed. He didn’t become a war criminal until 2003,
unless you count continuing Clinton’s sanctions against Iraq
against him…oh, and Clinton, too.

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By heterochromatic, April 26, 2012 at 12:00 pm Link to this comment

TD—- fraud at the state level…yeah

“Furthermore, the Florida State Supreme Court intervened to prevent the
election fraud but was overruled by a fanatic, right wing activist SCOTUS that
illegally intervened in the Florida vote count thereby effectively appointing
George W. Bush [the war criminal] to the office of POTUS.”

that one doesn’t cut it..once the dispute hit the federal courts, the most
important thing was that it would be quickly decided…...whether either
candidate won was less important than the election be settled and accepted.

————


you might be interested in the Hayes-Tilden 1876 election as a contrast to
2000.

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By Troy Davis, April 26, 2012 at 11:35 am Link to this comment

Clearly, it was election fraud perpetrated by GOP state officials in conjunction with other GOP operatives who interferred with the Florida election, that cost Al Gore the 2000 election.

While it may be true that if Ralph Nader had stayed out of the 2000 election the election fraud perpetrated upon the Gore Camapaign would not have been efffective. in the final analysis is was the election fraud that cost Gore the election.

Furthermore, the Florida State Supreme Court intervened to prevent the election fraud but was overruled by a fanatic, right wing activist SCOTUS that illegally intervened in the Florida vote count thereby effectively appointing George W. Bush [the war criminal] to the office of POTUS.

The fact that the author never addresses this in his article speaks for itself. It does call into question the authentic of the author given his ignorance of the facts.

Furthermore, the GOP is desperate to drain votes away from President Obama and will use any subterfuge available to it, including foisting a fake third party candidacy upon the electorate to achieve its goals.

The primary goal, [which is virtually a fait accompli at the this point] is the elimination of constitutional democracy and the replacement of it with corporate [fascist] government that relies upon a militarized police state to oppress the populace acting in concert with the wealthy elite [1%], to maintain their power and control over the American economy.

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By Mr. West, April 26, 2012 at 11:31 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The fact that Americans Elect comes from the shadows of secret financing by a select few tells me instinctively that it is just another vehical for the 1% attempting to manipulate the democratic process of the 99%.

I mean get real, a true democratic process would be completely transparent and unafraid to fly in the face of the two-party monopolistic dictatorship. Which would have energized everyone from the Ocuppy movement to the Tea Party as something completely different. Which it is not.

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By Byard Pidgeon, April 26, 2012 at 8:21 am Link to this comment

Boyarsky still believes Nader cost Gore the election in
2000…how in hell can anyone give any credence to anything
purporting to be news analysis by someone with so little
capability to see the facts…or modify his completely wrong
opinions of the past?

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By heterochromatic, April 26, 2012 at 7:28 am Link to this comment

KOrky——I’m quite in favor of democracy and don’t think that your suggestions
are all good ones that lead further toward democracy…..as I said, two of them are
dumb, particularly the one about legislatures and gender.

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By BR549, April 26, 2012 at 7:21 am Link to this comment

A few of people here on TD have mentioned Anderson; a few people, Jill Stein. Whether Anderson, Stein, Ron Paul, or Alfred E. Newman has any real hope of doing anything more than just pontificating their message to their respective supporters is unknown. They will all be ignored by the main stream media. Ron Paul, who appears to have garnered more support than the two of these combined is unfortunately in the same boat and, while I may support him, that doesn’t mean that Rocky or Jill cannot also carry the torch.

Somewhere in the fog between their idealism and their egos we need ALL of these independent candidates to bury the hatchet and realize that they don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of winning while the ballot count continues to be corrupted, and that the only hope for this country is for them to inform ALL of their followers the importance of supporting each others’ candidates, as well, as we approach the finish line.

That would mean that Jill Stein, for example, instead of her just seeing if she can manage to limp across the finish line, would concede her supporters to Rocky Anderson, who in turn would concede his votes to Ron Paul, or whatever, all in enough time to get the message out BEFORE election day. It could be in reverse; who knows? I would gladly support Jill or Rocky if Ron were knocked out of the picture; anyone but a GD globalist Bilderberg-Trilateral Commision-CFR communist traitor. Unless and until these candidates, along with the 100 some odd individuals who had thrown their names into the fray for the presidency (because they also saw the corruption in our present fascistic socialism),  climb off their individual peach crates and look at the larger picture, they will all be playing right into the hands of the globalists, who are sitting back gleefully counting on a continued broken resistance among voters.

The solution, then, requires a cascade of eliminated candidates’ followers focusing on the last man standing in the resistance, and in enough time so that none of the supporters winds up reverting to the Republicans or Democrats. Whoever winds up at the finish line, we will only get screwed again in November, if the rest of the independent candidates don’t yet understand that principle and what is at stake for the entire country.

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By David J. Cyr, April 26, 2012 at 6:36 am Link to this comment

QUOTE, Bill Boyarsky:

“If we must have a third party—and I’m not endorsing this idea—let it amount to something more than putting up a centrist candidate who won’t offer a clear alternative to our present choices.”
_________________

Therein Boyarsky concedes that both of the corporate party’s money manufactured interchangeable-part “[non] choices” (Obama and Romney) are centrists.

America’s Elect is just another corporate controlled demockery ballot line, set up to money manufacture yet another non-choice centrist candidate.

An American “centrist” is a person whose politics are located in the center of the far Right.

With Boyarsky being a member of the deeply depraved devious Democrat faction of the corporate party, it’s no surprise that he would not endorse the idea of voters having any non-corporate choices on the ballot.

Jill Stein for President!

http://www.jillstein.org

Voter Consent Wastes Dissent:

http://chenangogreens.org

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By LeftyMcSense, April 26, 2012 at 4:48 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Odd that American elect is seeking a centrist candidate.  They already have one in the incumbent President Obama.  Some might argue that he is actually center-right, in spite of his recent more progressive tone meant to pull (or is that lull) voters into his fold.

Odd also that the author says, “I have been intrigued by third-party candidates and sometimes angered, as I was by Ralph Nader, whom I blame for Al Gore’s loss in the 2000 presidential election.” 

It has been a proven fact that Ralph Nadar did not cost Gore the election, and even Gore has admitted as much.  If we always pull out the old saw that a spoiler candidate is responsible for the loss of one of the two main party candidates, then we are stuck both with a broken two-party system and with candidates that do not address the real needs of the country and only answer to the moneyed interests who control our nation.

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By bigchin, April 26, 2012 at 1:21 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

why does truthdig consistently have a problem w posting my comments?

very Democratic of you (and yes, the capital “D” was intentional… get it?)

fuck you

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By macousticboy, April 25, 2012 at 10:27 pm Link to this comment

“Average Joe” Schriner, Independent For President 2012.

Only one Candidate in this election is a true “man of the people.” Only one man is against all forms of institutionalized killing: War, Abortion, Capital Punishment, Euthanasia. And yet, he also favors healthcare for all (implemented at the local level) and better educational opportunities for our youth. Only one individual in this race has traveled America seeking common-sense remedies to our problems at little or no cost to the American Taxpayer. Only Joe Schriner will be both an “Activist President” and an advocate for Community, State, and Local Government solutions. Solutions that local communities throughout America have proven to work in helping the environment, ending homelessness, offering access to quality healthcare for all, and cutting government waste.

Support Joe for President on Americans Elect: http://www.americanselect.org/profile-candidate/369630/topic-answer.

Like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/360454244006675/.

Visit Joe at http://voteforjoe.com.

Live streaming podcast at: http://averagejoe2012.tumblr.com.

Videos: http://youtube.com/JoeSchriner

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By Korky Day, April 25, 2012 at 8:06 pm Link to this comment

“Lafayette” (like “St3nci1” earlier), unlike “heterochromatic”, sounds very supportive of making the USA into a real democracy.
I don’t agree on all the details, of course, but we have the same basic reasonableness.  I have more such ideas on my personal Web publication under “Philocracy” at
http://www.korky.ca

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By LadyR, April 25, 2012 at 4:07 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Well, Emile, that was very entertaining!

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By Lafayette, April 25, 2012 at 2:57 pm Link to this comment

KD: In my opinion, a democracy:

Interesting selection of criteria. I would qualify them only a bit further. Here’s my input:

1.  Has a constitution passed by a national referendum

.

Rather, keep the Constitution, but constitutional change such that the right to referenda is not changeable by a vote of Congress.

2.  Has national referenda.

Referendum questions are included only by written petition signed by 5% of qualified voters in all states.

3.  Gives each party a proportion of the legislature according to its proportion of the total votes.  (A minority cannot control a legislature.)

Maximum of 10% of all seats in either chamber.

4.  Has elections with a turn-out of at least 90% of adult citizens.

A poll-tax of $200 is due if the taxpayer cannot submit a valid receipt for having voted when sending tax declaration.

5.  Doesn’t kill its non-rich people by denial of health care.

A Public Option Health Care Insurance is passed by Congress and, as its basis, offers universal health care from dedicated clinics/hospitals with HC-practitioners who agree to mandated fees for all services. Fees are fixed (negotiated with practitioners) by the Department of Health periodically.

7.  Doesn’t have legislatures weighted by geography instead of population.

Gerrymandered districting is expressly forbidden and all districts must by geographically homogeneous.

8.  Doesn’t have the Electoral College.

Simple majority vote of all states.

10.  Doesn’t have a court which stops the votes from being counted.

An national electoral commission is responsible for all vote counting, which must be electronic and guaranteed infallible.

12.  Has debates among all the candidates.

Campaigns are funded in part by Federal government subsidies. Corporate funding allowed only for “get out the vote” efforts. Candidate funding limited to $5000 per bona fide voter.

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By Textynn, April 25, 2012 at 1:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What I want to know is why haven’t left and progressive sites been covering Anderson and Green back a year or more ago heavily.  We are approaching the 11 hour of the Presidential race, yet none of these lefty sites have had more than a momentary glimpse of these candidates. 

It makes me question all of these sites as really being nothing more than controlled discontent by the phony “NOt really” a two party system

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By mrfreeze, April 25, 2012 at 1:08 pm Link to this comment

St3ncil - I’m sorry that must endure living in close proximity to the “predominant” anti-culture there in UT. I too endured the place for many years growing up.

I have a hard time taking any politician from UT seriously, even someone as “intersting” as Rocky Anderson. I simply don’t trust any politicians from UT.

It is a beautiful place UT, too bad “they” got there first.

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By heterochromatic, April 25, 2012 at 11:55 am Link to this comment

5.  Doesn’t kill its non-rich people by denial of health care.


14.  Has half the legislatures women.


—- those two are actually stupid.

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By Korky Day, April 25, 2012 at 11:31 am Link to this comment

Below are the criteria that “heterochromatic”
dismisses as ‘mostly “extras” not necessities ... except for a couple of allegations that US democracy is being subverted , such allegations not much believed to be quite truthful or widespread.’

In my opinion, a democracy:
1.  Has a constitution passed by a national referendum.
2.  Has national referenda.
3.  Gives each party a proportion of the legislature according to its proportion of the total votes.  (A minority cannot control a legislature.)
4.  Has elections with a turn-out of at least 90% of adult citizens.
5.  Doesn’t kill its non-rich people by denial of health care.
6.  Doesn’t keep killing people in foreign countries without a declaration of war by a democratically elected authority.
7.  Doesn’t have legislatures weighted by geography instead of population.
8.  Doesn’t have the Electoral College.
9.  Elects people to single posts (president, governor, state superintendent of schools) with a ranked ballot, not by a minority of votes.
10.  Doesn’t have a court which stops the votes from being counted.
11.  Doesn’t have unverifiable machine voting.
12.  Has debates among all the candidates.
13.  Every elected official debates their opposition all through their term.
14.  Has half the legislatures women.
15.  Doesn’t let anyone buy elections.

Since that discussion, I’ve added these 4:

16.  Encourages everyone to vote, including prisoners and ex-prisoners.
17.  Allows any party or candidate on the ballot with only a reasonable barrier, such as 100 signatures.
18.  Is informed by a large number of independent media (not only 5 corporations!).
19.  Is under the rule of law, as the people want.

and around 16 more criteria.

USA fails all 19.
Canada fails 11 of 19.

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By heterochromatic, April 25, 2012 at 11:19 am Link to this comment

answered you several times, Korker….. you’re posting things that may well be
desirable…but they’re mostly “extras” not necessities ...except for a couple of
allegations that US democracy is being subverted , such allegations not much
believed to be quite truthful or widespread.

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By Korky Day, April 25, 2012 at 10:53 am Link to this comment

On another TruthDig thread the sarcastic “heterochromatic” keeps avoiding my question of which of my criteria for a democracy is dispensable.

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By heterochromatic, April 25, 2012 at 10:47 am Link to this comment

I agree also… korky should be allowed to ignore the definitions of democracy that
are in use and decide on his own definition…. it’s a free county.

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By St3nci1, April 25, 2012 at 10:43 am Link to this comment

I do agree, Korky Day, The US isn’t a democracy in any
meaningful sense of the word. Beyond being able to pick
what slogans you prefer there isn’t much to it.

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By Some Metry Guy, April 25, 2012 at 9:59 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I’m proudly supporting Buddy Roemer who is far more
progressive than many give him credit for while
remaining sufficiently conservative to appeal to
right-leaning voters.

Whatever AE becomes at the end of the day, Roemer’s
clear message of the problem of special interest
money controlling our government is the unique
message in this cycle.

We need to get Buddy in there for at least one term
to give every 3rd party candidate a chance in the
future. If we miss this chance, it won’t come around
again. The duopoly will shut this down.

Roemer’s the only hope left at this point and we all
have to set aside our narrow differences, just like
the duopoly does, so that independents band together
to accomplish this goal. Roemer in the short term for
all of us in the long term.

It’s really pretty obvious.

Do the research to see what Lawrence Lessig and Joe
Scarsborough have to say about Buddy Roemer.

Rally around Reason. Rally around Roemer.

http://bit.ly/ElectRoemer

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By Korky Day, April 25, 2012 at 9:53 am Link to this comment

I, like “St3nci1”, voted for the Greens’ Cynthia McKinney in 2008.
“St3nci1” might want to join me in refusing to call the USA a “democracy” or “democratic”.  Except for a tiny minority of municipal elections, it isn’t.
I’ve argued that extensively on various threads on TruthDig.

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By RHONDA, April 25, 2012 at 9:41 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

When I first heard about Americans Elect, I was
intrigued.  Surely we need something else.  Then I read
that if the those in charge did not like the chosen
candidate, they’d choose someone else.

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By St3nci1, April 25, 2012 at 9:22 am Link to this comment

I see a dilemma for democracy; for power to be
preserved for either party only two valid choices can
exist. But for “democracy” to exist there must be
some subtle difference between the functioning
policies of the two possible candidates. I think it’s
fairly easy to demonstrate the few and fragile
differences between Obama and Bush.

This is the value of 3rd parties, they preserve the
illusion of democracy, and get me to spend a few
bucks on gas exercising my “constitutional rights”. I
understand why avid party members oppose alternate
choices in tight elections, but the electoral college
will effectively maintain power where corporate
interests can expect consistent results.

I live in Utah, and I usually don’t bother to vote,
since it could hardly be more meaningless due to the
nature of the electoral college and this state’s
majority interests. I lived in Sausalito, CA in 08
though, and I did turn out for Cynthia McKinney, not
because I thought she would be elected but because in
order to oppose a “broken thing” one must not
participate in it. I suppose I should not have voted
at all, as is usually the case, but I agreed with her
ideals, and didn’t see her as a creature of a
political machine destined to betray whatever she
represented in order to maintain the mandate of the
monied interests. And lets face it, that’s all the
Republicans and Democrats are, two sides of the same
coin owned by the bank.

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EmileZ's avatar

By EmileZ, April 25, 2012 at 9:21 am Link to this comment

OK Mr Boyarsky…

I think I get it now.

Rocky Anderson did in fact DECLARE himself as an Americans Elect candidate.

I looked at the website and saw Bernie Sanders and knowing he was not running, assumed it was just some sort of poll or sham or something, but no unlike Rocky Anderson who DECLARED himself, Bernie Sanders was DRAFTED for whatever purposes this group has, credibility I assume, but perhaps I should not be assuming, all things considered.

I take back all the insults and the accusations. Not only that, but I turn them back inwards toward myself…

FUCK YOU EmileZ!!!

I guess… I have only myself to blame.

Gulp

Nat King Cole Trio - What Can I Say After I Say I’m Sorry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l23fZyA1amA

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By bigchin, April 25, 2012 at 9:07 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Boyarsky is as big a fraud as the Democrats and the Republicans.

Terrible article, terribly written, indeed, almost unreadable - which is exactly what shills like B.B. do:  suck you in with the possibility of an uncharacteristically outside view, then obscure it, confound it, make it boring and uninteresting and hope those qualities attain to the people he not-so-secretly fears and hates - independent voices who won’t play the partisan game that Boyarsky and MOST “progressive” journalists play for the loathsome and soon-to-be-destroyed Democratic Party.

What a wanker.

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By Reverend Lauren Unruh, April 25, 2012 at 8:52 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“I have been intrigued by third-party candidates and sometimes angered, as I was by Ralph Nader, whom I blame for Al Gore’s loss in the 2002 presidential
election.”

2002? WTF?

Facts don’t seem to matter much to you, do they? No wonder you ‘blame’ Nader.
You never bothered to learn any of the facts about it! Here watch this,

Rachel Maddow Reviewing the history of fake conservative protests
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5L4dXl4fns

Conspiracy to commit election fraud is what I would call the 2000 election and
Nader had nothing to do with it. I wouldn’t even call this post reporting, I’d call it
propaganda. ‘Coordinating’ a crime is not to meet crime with crime, it is time to
meet crime with media sunshine.

Those ‘shut it down’ crowds were throwing the election, and it happened in 2000,
not 2002.

Wow.

PS, I’m a Rocky Anderson supporter.

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By Korky Day, April 25, 2012 at 8:20 am Link to this comment

“madisolation” makes good points about Ron Paul’s tough situation.  Though I’m a Green, I’m still urging people to vote for him in the primaries, hoping he’ll have the smarts to pick his best strategy from there.  Maybe he or his advisers are reading this.

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By EmileZ, April 25, 2012 at 8:17 am Link to this comment

@ heterochromatic

Thanks for your kind gesture in my hour of need.

John Coltrane - Equinox

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfDoAofL_hw

and for you Mr. Boyarsky (shame on you again)
Moistboyz - Fuck You

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzbexxlDSj8&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL2DC9242B2724F738

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By Korky Day, April 25, 2012 at 8:15 am Link to this comment

If you want on-line polls, have I got a deal for you!
I found a small, non-profit poll site which uses ranked ballots (much better than one-X voting!):
http://www.DemoChoice.org
Anyone can post a poll there.
I’ve posted these on the presidential and vice-presidential contests, etc.:

—Ron Paul’s vice presidential nominee 2012.
—Ron Paul’s options 2012 if he loses Republican Presidential & Vice Presidential nods.
—Mitt Romney’s vice presidential nominee 2012 .
—Best benevolent Web site.

They are fun partly because of the large number of choices you can rank, unlike the USA’s undemocratic public ballots.

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By madisolation, April 25, 2012 at 8:08 am Link to this comment

Korky Day, I’d be perfectly happy to support Ron Paul for his views on war and civil liberties (and because he has a head start and more support than the other third party candidates), but if he won’t run as an independent, he just seems to be trying to help his doofus son Rand. If he waits until after Tampa to declare, it will be too late. That Tampa business is a fool’s errand. He’s going nowhere at the convention, because they’ll throw out the playbook before they’ll let him win.

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By heterochromatic, April 25, 2012 at 7:42 am Link to this comment

EZ—- chew off neither leg gnaw arm.

http://youtu.be/DEC8nqT6Rrk

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By EmileZ, April 25, 2012 at 7:37 am Link to this comment

@ Korky Day

Yikes!!!

Thanks for that.

It is just a poll.

Thanks again Korky Day and my apologies to Rocky Anderson.

FUCK YOU BILL BOYARSKY!!!!

That was a real ASSHOLE move buddy!!!

Yes, you are right I should have known better what with the “computer-clicks” and all, but still…

Think you’re pretty clever don’t you mister???

SHAME ON YOU!!!!

SHAME!!!

SHAME!!!

The Ronettes - How Does It Feel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQqSrQagD7U

I will tell you right now Mr. Boyarsky, it doesn’t feel all that great.

You think I am just kidding around. I assure you I am not.

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By Tom Semioli, April 25, 2012 at 7:37 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Instead of blaming Ralph Nader for Gore’s loss you
should read Nader’s THE GOOD FIGHT and learn why no
third party will ever be a viable contender in a
national election. Long story short: there are laws on
the books which prevent third parties for being
competitive.

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By EmileZ, April 25, 2012 at 7:19 am Link to this comment

@ Anarcissie

Pre-empt, co-opt, it could be a useful tool either way.

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By Korky Day, April 25, 2012 at 7:13 am Link to this comment

I’ll try to ignore that the article, like most US Americans, uses the stupid, innumerate term “third party”.

And it doesn’t mention the Web address, which is
http://www.americanselect.org

Worse, though, it ignores the fact that, so far, Ron Paul is far ahead in the on-line vote at Americans Elect.

Our author focusses on the 2nd and 4th place candidates, without mentioning that fact and without mentioning the other candidates.

Americans Elect tally as of 2012 April 25:
Ron Paul       8329
Buddy Roemer     3871
Jon Huntsman     3225
Rocky Anderson   2305
Bernie Sanders   2240
Laurence Kotlikoff 1457
and many more.

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By HC, April 25, 2012 at 7:12 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Uh, let’s not let a seemingly little aside in the article just go by unnoticed… Ralph Nader isn’t to blame for Dumbya getting “elected,” it’s the people who voted for him.

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By Leefeller, April 25, 2012 at 7:09 am Link to this comment

Well, after reading the article and the posts here, I can comfortably say, ‘Frankly my dear, .... I don’t give a damn!’

Occupy must have got on their nerves by having the nerve to bring up a formally taboo subject, not not sex,...... disenfranchisement!

Gorge Carlin was accurate when he said; “They do what they want”. I believe he said this prefacing it with something like; ‘this is why he did not vote’, difference being I intend to vote.

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By Anarcissie, April 25, 2012 at 6:49 am Link to this comment

It seems to me that the function of American Elect is to preempt the rise of a third major party.  It’s sort of interesting that a bunch of wealthy contributors think the possibility is significant enough to invest millions of dollars to prevent.

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By EmileZ, April 25, 2012 at 6:48 am Link to this comment

@ the crow

2000 I was shocked.

2004 I knew in advance.

2008 I knew in advance and I thought this asshole will be a lot less fun to hate.

And he was.

2012 Who gives a flying fuck??? (it will be Obama)

Looking back, if you will permit me to do so, perhaps a McCain victory not have lulled folks into a blah blah blah…

On the other hand if he had won, “we” might still be rallying around the corporate democrats.

You either bite the bullet or you knaw your arm off and try to find a nice warm safe space to hide away in, or both.

Personally, I like urinating in the open air.

Talking turkey about presidential elections always gets me in a foul mood.

Frank Zappa - Beat The Reaper

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el_Ay0lOr3o

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By t groan, April 25, 2012 at 6:36 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The author apparently unaware of the corrupted electoral process in 2000 Florida throws out the democratic party canard that Nader cost Gore the 2000 election.

Anybody with the slightest interest can quickly research this and find it’s not true.

It’s nothing more than propaganda to keep the unthinking in line. Such nonsense spewed by Boyarsky only serves to show his allegiance to the status quo.

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By balkas, April 25, 2012 at 6:23 am Link to this comment

one can frighten Democrats all one wants and in many ways; including running a third person for presidency, but
only money wld rule america, anyway.
and don’t forget that people with money, in case the run of third candidate for presidency wld constitute a threat
to rule by money [ or by 00001%, 001%, 1%, or 20%] wld merge Democratic Party with Republican or vice versa.
changing a plutocratic structure of society [in which a person is allowed to earn one or more thousand times
more money than another person]
and structure of governance anywhere and not just u.s, can be done in only one way: passing laws that wld never
permit such income [and thus the gap or chasm as is now the case in politico-military powers]
and to cut dwn on politico-military-economic disparity [seems anderson, paul, stein see only economic disparity]
one needs to build a politico-econo-military party which wld declare that no one shld be allowed to earn more
than 3, 5, or 10 tines than another.
only then there wld be more justice, peaceableness, hope, peace on street in u.s.
if one knows another way or other ways, please, enlighten us about it or them!!!
===
btw, by military component of the triad [or tetrad if we wld also include or allow education in the set], i mean
one needs to get some police, army echelons, cia/fbi agents onside for cutting dwn on disparity in the tetradic
power.
i think all else fails!!

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By thecrow, April 25, 2012 at 5:41 am Link to this comment

In 2000 I was amused.

In 2004 I was alarmed.

In 2008 I was awake.

In 2012 I don’t give a sh*t anymore which grinning, sociopathic stooge the money installs.

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/coke-or-pepsi/

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By madisolation, April 25, 2012 at 5:25 am Link to this comment

I agree with all you wrote, prisnersdilema. I think we’re witnessing the beginning of the end of an impotent Democratic Party, frightened of and beholden to Wall Street and the Imperialist Obama. I welcome its demise. It’s doing far more harm than good. I blame the weak-kneed Democratic politicians who did not—and do not—push back against Obama’s nefarious agenda. Where was their courage, their willingness to lose their seats in order to do what was just? The Democratic Party will bite the dust, no doubt about that. The Democratic politicians were probably told that, with the slick Obama at its head, they could pull the wool over the eyes of the foolish American people for years. Now, I think, they stand in confusion and amazement, frightened at the thought that the only political tool they have left in their arsenal is not working: they can scream “Lesser of Two Evils!” all they want, but it’s not working. I think many, many people will (and should) stay home or vote their consciences. The next elected “leader” will not have the American people behind him.
And I agree with you so much that a third party will take time and hard work, but what the heck. What else have we got to do? There are no doors to knock on or phone calls to make for Democrats. We may as well work for something better.
The once-conservative, anti-imperialist Republican Party will meet its demise as well. Both parties are on life support right now, and neither party deserves to be resuscitated. Let them breathe their last. Please.

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By EmileZ, April 25, 2012 at 5:00 am Link to this comment

Personally, I am a bit disappointed that Anderson is attempting to align himself with Americans Elect.

I guess I can see the potential benefit of contributing to the debate as a sort of third party once removed, but still…

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By EmileZ, April 25, 2012 at 4:51 am Link to this comment

@ prisnersdilemma

Not you too!!!

(By that I mean upcoming presidential election speculation)

You have always been so disciplined.

Sly And The Family Stone - Turn Me Loose

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Y5BS6RV2c

AND…

@ Michael Calvan & David J. Cyr

Sly And The Family Stone - Underdog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNnqHefLlbg

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By prisnersdilema, April 25, 2012 at 3:32 am Link to this comment

At this point in the election it looks to me that the Democratic party, must be scared as
hell. They assume that those votes that will go to Rocky Anderson should be theirs, and
that in a close election it could make the difference and deny Mr Obama a second term.

Mr. Romney, just doesn’t seem that threatening, so the election may not be close at all.

What seems certain is that a good number of Independents will stay home on election
day, ignoring the lesser of two evils doctrine that is usually used to frighten them into
voting. Romney does’t seem that evil, at this point, even though he probably will be
depending on his parties strength after election day.

I can imagine that Mr Romney could work with a Democrat majority easier than Obama
could work with a Republican one in both houses.

Hopefully if Mr Obama loses, the Democratic party can take time out to examine it’s own
irrelevance, before continuing it’s own nightmare decent into the political graveyard, with
the remains of other political parties whose names stir only laughter or disgust.

The question then will be who crashed what? Did Obama’s lies, betrayals, sell outs, and
surrenders, put an end to it? They did take a toll. Will the Democratic party learn it’s
lesson? Probably not.

In which case it’s good to remember that building a third party will take time, energy,
and hard work. It may provide a home for a good number of independents and former
Democrats, like myself, who are sick and tired of voting for Republicans, disguised as
Democrats.

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