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Reflections on Israel: From Idealism to Ethnic Cleansing

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Posted on Jun 8, 2011
AP / Muhammed Muheisen

Backdropped by a section of Israel’s separation barrier, Israeli troops fire rubber bullets at Palestinian stone throwers, not seen, during clashes in the West Bank in 2007.

By Larry Gross

In 1953 my family—my parents and their four boys, aged 4 to 12, I was 10—moved from the suburbs of Washington, D.C., to Israel, where we remained for seven years. My father was what might be called a McCarthy refugee, a former Truman administration official who was also a “premature anti-fascist” (look it up) and thus not eminently employable in that chilly era of Red-hunting. I’ve since read my father’s FBI file and I know how close he came to being fingered as a former Communist Party member (my parents both left the CP after the 1939 Hitler-Stalin pact). My father received offers to join many other former government officials in taking overseas posts in such imperial outposts as Japan, Indonesia and Pakistan, but my mother said she wouldn’t raise her children in a “foreign nationals” bubble surrounded by servants. An offer to my father to join a group of economic advisers to the prime minister of the then 5-year-old state of Israel was another matter. To my mother, the daughter of longtime Labor Zionists, this was an appealing option, and we left the States for what was to be a two-year stint. After the two years were over, my father moved to the Hebrew University, where he taught for the next five years before we returned to the United States and I started college.

I’ve long thought that it wasn’t a bad bargain, missing out on the 1950s in the United States, by all accounts a very missable decade, and instead experiencing life in the young and then exciting and idealistic state of Israel. From the sixth grade through high school I went to Jerusalem schools, using Hebrew and absorbing a blend of nationalism and Jewish-slanted perspectives on history, within a context of widely proclaimed external threats and internal nation-building. This was a period in which education—history, geography and even Bible studies—was clearly in the service of the national enterprise. Even in the secular schools Bible study was required, but the subject largely was taught as an extension of the story of the Jews, reinforcing the connections of the Chosen People to the land, with the names of biblical places still present all around us, cementing the historical continuity we were now experiencing after 2,000 years of exile. As the familiar song went, we have come to the Land, to build and to be rebuilt in it. 

Even then there were tangles in the stories that were woven through the nationalist tapestry: The barely disguised racism to which Sephardic Jews from the Arab countries were subjected, in comparison with the preferential treatment of Ashkenazi Jews from Western Europe and the United States—to my parents’ amusement, British and American Jews were routinely referred to as “Anglo-Saxons”—and the even less disguised racism directed at Arabs. Traveling with my father, whose advisory brief included public housing, to visit settlements for Sephardic immigrants—Maabarot—it was easy to see the contrast between the government’s views of various categories of olim (immigrants), and the vast difference in social services and opportunities extended. It was also easy to see that Israeli Arabs occupied a distinctly lower status. 

At the same time, to be blunt, it was also clear to me that the beauty of the landscape and the indigenous architecture that seemed to grow organically on the rocky hills, a landscape and architecture that has etched itself on my soul, was the creation of the Palestinian people who had lived in these hills for generations.  In contrast, the new settlements built by the Israeli government spread across the hilltops like an ugly ribbon of concrete.

The big city of the time, Tel Aviv, despite some neighborhoods with low-rise apartment buildings echoing the Bauhaus style, felt ugly and cramped and already was falling apart. Now, I know that Tel Aviv has been transformed, with skyscrapers and freeways, bright lights and nightlife, but it also looks like nearly every other modern metropolis. The adjacent Arab port of Jaffa, absorbed into a unified Tel Aviv-Yafo municipality, has been gentrified and touristed up. 

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The Jerusalem of my childhood was a divided city, in which the new part, the Israeli portion, was a small town I could traverse on my bicycle, avoiding the scar of barbed-wired “no man’s land” that divided it from the Jordanian-controlled Old City. Since 1967 the unified city, along with the extensive territories annexed into “Greater Jerusalem,” has grown and expanded and build up and out. High-rises have desecrated the timeless skyline of the city, as new housing settlements have covered the surrounding hills. 

Even more striking than the sheer growth of the city is its domination by the ultra-orthodox. I recall the first riot I ever saw, in the mid-1950s, when thousands of black-suited men thronged the center of the city to protest the building of the first public swimming pool in Jerusalem. The pool was expected to permit men and women to swim at the same time, a provocation and blasphemy that roused the orthodox communities to outrage. Previously, the orthodox communities had limited themselves to barricading their streets during the Sabbath and throwing stones at cars that wandered too close to their neighborhoods. They also greeted other violations in similar fashion: I recall my mother being pelted with pebbles by small boys when she wore a sleeveless dress as we walked on a street that was the border between orthodox and secular neighborhoods. But the tensions of that time were nothing compared to the rise of religious nationalism after the 1967 Six Day War, when many ultra-orthodox groups previously hostile to Zionism—God will decide when we return to Zion, not men, they argued, and thus Zionism is presumptuous—took the Israeli victory as a sign that God now favored the Zionist enterprise, and therefore Jews had the right and indeed the obligation to settle the entire Land of Israel.


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By archivesDave, June 20, 2011 at 2:50 pm Link to this comment

IHW:
The Samson Option?

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, June 20, 2011 at 9:49 am Link to this comment

Nah. Nobody wants to see Israel destroyed.  They just want to convince it to commit suicide.

(and if it won’t, well, that will be the future justification for destroying it)

Report this

By archivesDave, June 17, 2011 at 7:30 am Link to this comment

Shingo:
>Why would I be afraid?  Is there an issue with which
we disagree?

I just note in some of your posts to ITW and others
that you state a lot of ‘facts’ but don’t give the
sources as to where they came from.

>>>And I suppose u consider my sources such as
Webster Tarpley are ‘Tinfoilers’ huh, Mr De Nyer on
yer way down de River of No Return?

>Webster Tarpley is an etertaining old man, who makes
for great entertainment, but who’s predictions are
wrong 99% of the time.

Au Contraire; Guess u haven’t been watching his
youtubes.  He was spot on and WAY ahead of most
everyone else on the Middle East flair ups re
Egypt et al.  His economic insight has also been
extremely accurate.
It’s pretty easy for us ‘Monday AM Quarterbacks’ to
judge and criticize these guys like Salbuchi, Michael
Ruppert, Ventura, Tarpley and Celente and call them
‘conspiracy nuts’ but think about it, we ALL have
our little conspiracy ideas about certain things and
it’s healthy to ask the ‘what ifs’ and still be
skeptical and even cynical as one tends to get when
he gets to be my age.
Time to remove yourself a little further from the
‘choir’ and go listen to a few more ‘preachers’ Bro.

Report this

By Shingo, June 17, 2011 at 3:21 am Link to this comment

archivesDave,

What’s the matter, afraid your
references are a little skewed or biased?

Why would I be afraid?  Is there an issue with which we disagree?

And I suppose u consider my sources such as Webster Tarpley are ‘Tinfoilers’ huh, Mr De Nyer on yer way down de River of No Return?

Webster Tarpley is an etertaining old man, who makes for great entertainment, but who’s predictions are wrong 99% of the time.

Report this

By archivesDave, June 17, 2011 at 2:43 am Link to this comment

Shingo:
>>> Your posts are long on bloviation, but short on
documentation.

> I’ll cite documentation when I need it.  In the
mean time, you might want to adjust your tin foil
hat.

When YOU need it???..What’s the matter, afraid your
references are a little skewed or biased?
And I suppose u consider my sources such as Webster
Tarpley are ‘Tinfoilers’ huh, Mr De Nyer on yer way
down de River of No Return?

Report this

By Shingo, June 16, 2011 at 6:27 pm Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind,

You are going to TERRIFY me into leaving my homeland to come live under YOUR dictatorship?  How’s that going to work?

The way it worked in Baghadad, when Jewish terro groups were caught in the act of setting off bombs against Jewish targets and thus insitlling the belief in the Jewish popualtion that they were being victimized by anti Semites.

  If Mossad threatened me or mine with bodily harm WHY would I go to Israel and live under it?

 

I never used the word threetned ITW.  I used the word forced.  Many were encouraged and seduced into migrating to ISrael. Many were fooled into believing their lives were at risk.

One only has to look at what happened during the Iranian revolution, where 80% of the Jewish population of Iran fled, fearing persecution, when it turned out to be baseless.

In the case of the 1950’s, hefty bribes were paid to Arab government officials to agree to allow their Jews to leave for Israel. In other countries, like in Iraq, Zionist agents employed terrorism to foster an atmosphere of fear among Jews in order to force them into leaving. Synagogues were bombed and threats were made in order to communicate the message to Jews, that “your safety is at stake and that you have to leave before it is too late.”

Many if not most of the rumors about “impending pogroms” and other acts of discrimination against Jews were purposeful propaganda originating in Israeli intelligence circles.

Just look at the situation with Ruissian Jews heading to Germany today. Following pressure from Israel, Gemrnay has moved to cut the mass migration of Jews from the former Soviet Union to Germany.

The restrictions effectively will end the wave of migration that has brought almost 200,000 Jews and their relatives to Germany from the former Soviet Union, causing a Jewish renaissance in the most unlikely of places. 

This was causing serious anxiety in Israel, so as was the case ni 1948, Israel lobbied for hostile policies to be implemented in other countries to make them less welcoming to Jews.


http://www.forward.com/articles/4029/

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By Inherit The Wind, June 16, 2011 at 6:04 pm Link to this comment

You forgot to mention Jews from Arab countries who were forced by Zionist agencies and their actions to leave homelands, to leave their own villas and move to Israel where they were treated with racist patronizing condescension, where they were forced to ‘assimilate’ by forgetting their language, their culture, and their own names as many were Hebrewized. And let us not forget the alienation they felt when they were sprayed with de-licers upon arrival in Israel as they were considered to be ‘unclean’, or the squalid conditions in which they were housed in Ma’barot to serve as the labor force for the ‘civilized’ racist Ashkenazis.
*********

This piece of crap is up there with Holocaust denial.  It doesn’t even pass a straight-face test.

You are going to TERRIFY me into leaving my homeland to come live under YOUR dictatorship?  How’s that going to work?  WHEN has it ever worked?  Even Saddam Hussein could only force a son-in-law to return and be shot by threatening to have his family tortured to death.  One, two three guys, you can do it to. But 900,000 people?  From a distance?

I challenged you to show how such a mechanism can work.  You failed utterly.  If Mossad threatened me or mine with bodily harm WHY would I go to Israel and live under it? Wouldn’t I instead take it to the FBI (who has NEVER been thrilled with Mossad, having sent a couple of their agents to jail for life for spying)?

It isn’t a rational argument.  It’s like saying if you are sinking, drill holes in the bottom of your boat to let the water out.

Report this
Robert's avatar

By Robert, June 15, 2011 at 9:25 am Link to this comment

Three Myths of Israel’s Insecurity
And Why They Must Be Debunked

By Ira Chernus


“Here are the Three Sacred Commandments for Americanswho shape the public conversation on Israel:


1. For politicians, especially at the federal level: As soon as you say the word “Israel,” you must also say the word “security” and promise that the United States will always, always, always be committed to Israel’s security. If you occasionally label an action by the Israeli government “unhelpful,” you must immediately reaffirm the eternal U.S. commitment to Israel’s security.


2. For TV talking heads and op-ed pundits: If you criticize any policies or actions of the Israeli government, you must immediately add that Israel does, of course, have very real and serious security needs that have to be addressed.


3. For journalists covering the Israel-Palestine conflict for major American news outlets: You must live in Jewish Jerusalem or in Tel Aviv and take only occasional day trips into the Occupied Territories. So your reporting must inevitably be slanted toward the perspective of the Jews you live among. And you must indicate in every report that Jewish Israeli life is dominated by anxiety about security.


U.S. opinion-shapers have obeyed the Three Commandments scrupulously for decades. As a result, they’ve created an indelible image of Israel as a deeply insecure nation. That image is a major, if often overlooked, factor that has shaped and continues to shape Washington’s policies in the Middle East and especially the longstanding American tilt toward Israel.


It’s often said that the number one factor in that tilt is the power of the right-wing “pro-Israel” (more accurately, “pro-Israeli-government”) lobby. That lobby certainly is a skillful, well-oiled machine.
It uses every trick in the PR book to promote the myth of Israel as a brave little nation constantly forced to fight for its life against enemies all around who are eager to destroy it, a Jewish David withstanding the Arab Goliath.</b> <i>The lobby justifies everything Israel does to the Palestinians—military occupation, economic strangulation, expanding settlements, confiscating land, demolishing homes, imprisoning children—as perhaps unfortunate but absolutely necessary for Israel’s self-defense.

@@@@@

Click on link for the rest of details:


{Ira Chernus is Professor of Religious Studies at the University of Colorado at Boulder. He is a Jewish Peace Activist.}

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175380/tomgram:_ira_chernus,_the_great_israeli_security_scam/#more

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, June 15, 2011 at 3:40 am Link to this comment

Inherit,

How can Mossad, say, today, convince ME, a non-religious Jew, to leave the USA to go to Israel, now dominated by a right-wing batch of religious fanatics about as “liberal” as the Islamic Council in Iran?  What’s the mechanism?

Easy, they will make you fear.


then you’d have to accept Israel’s fundamental right to exist as a refuge for Jews,

In a way you answer your own question.

Many criminals (who happen to be Jewish) flee to Israel to avoid prosecution along with those who simply wish to be amongst their own, combined with that nations non extradition its a sweet setup, if you can claim Jewish status.  This is one of the biggest concerns of worldwide court systems and intelligence agencies that while Israel, a ‘Jewish refuge’ was intended to protect worldwide Jewry from anti-semitism, it subverts loyalty to the nation state in which they live and in most cases were born.

Once you establish a ‘refuge’ for one group then all others can lay claim to the same.

Report this

By Shingo, June 15, 2011 at 12:51 am Link to this comment

archivesDave,

>> Your posts are long on bloviation, but short on documentation.

I’ll cite documentation when I need it.  In themean time, you might want to adjust your tin foil hat.

Report this

By archivesDave, June 15, 2011 at 12:33 am Link to this comment

Shingo:
Your posts are long on bloviation,
but short on documentation.

Report this

By Shingo, June 14, 2011 at 10:49 pm Link to this comment

dailyplanet,

>>  Israel is the only country whose very right to exist has been challenged.

Absolute hogwash. 

Israel is the only country who’s leaders thought to come up with such a ludicrous claim in the absence of a moral and legal justification for it’s crimes.

The BS about legitimacy was concocted after Cast Lead, when in spite of it’s efforts to control all th news comming out of Gaza, Israel’s sadism was exposed for the world to see. 

Israel are the only state that claism indiscriminate murder of others is justifiable.

It is not Mr. Gross’s fault that the reality he documents in this article makes Israel look bad.  It is truly mond boggling how Israel’s defenders are reduced to arguing that criticism of Israel is dangerous not becasue it is not factual, but becasue it tarnishes Israel’s image.

Can anyone possibly imagine Gadaffi or the Mullahs in Tehran resorting to that infatile logic?  If what Mr Gross was writing about wasn’t true, it would present no problem for Israel yet here you are criticising Gross for shingin a light on some of Israel’s many dirty little secrets.

Israel’s acheivements do not absolve it of it’s crimes or grant it immunity.  The fact that Germany (before and during WWII) excelled in the fields of science, research, the arts etc., proves that material achievement is no guarantee against war crimes adn crimes against humanity.

Julius’ argument would be laughable if it wasn’t so pathetic.

>> As myself coming from a family of Ashkenazi Jews, I know full well that the Sephardim traditionally denigrated their Eastern European brethren.

You forgot to mention Jews from Arab countries who were forced by Zionist agencies and their actions to leave homelands, to leave their own villas and move to Israel where they were treated with racist patronizing condescension, where they were forced to ‘assimilate’ by forgetting their language, their culture, and their own names as many were Hebrewized. And let us not forget the alienation they felt when they were sprayed with de-licers upon arrival in Israel as they were considered to be ‘unclean’, or the squalid conditions in which they were housed in Ma’barot to serve as the labor force for the ‘civilized’ racist Ashkenazis.

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, June 14, 2011 at 10:11 pm Link to this comment

“Thank god we have a Jewish state to protect us from anti-Semitism”


American-Jewish young man is being harassed and treated unfairly he is then arrested in Jerusalem

06.09.2011 | YouTube

@@@@@@@

If the Israeli police/IDF can aggressively ruff-up a young Jewish-American man/kid, with cameras on,... just imagine what they do to Palestinians off cameras.


Click on link to watch video—-must see !!!:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/american-jewish-young-man-is-being-harassed-and-treated-unfairly-he-is-then-arrested-in-jerusalem/

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By Shingo, June 14, 2011 at 9:59 pm Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind,

>> See, if you ever had to recognize that it was a two-sided, not one-sided series of injustices, your whole thesis would have to be discarded.

That is just a talking point ITW.  If one were crazy enough, one could argue that there were two sides to the Holocaust. 

I never disputed that some Jews were the victims of retribution after the ethynic clesing of Palestine, but it was not en masse and it was not part fo any program to rid the arab world of Jews.

>> If you did, then you’d have to accept Israel’s fundamental right to exist as a refuge for Jews, which you cannot.

That’s fundamentally dishonest of you.  As I said earlier, the only person questinig Israel’s fundamental right to exist, or even raising the topic is you.  Israel is free to be whatever it wants to be, within it’s borders.

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By Inherit The Wind, June 14, 2011 at 8:09 pm Link to this comment

Fantasy, Shingo.  See, if you ever had to recognize that it was a two-sided, not one-sided series of injustices, your whole thesis would have to be discarded.

And, like the man who can’t believe something when his living DEPENDS on his not believing it, you simply can’t believe in the retribution visited on Jews throughout the Middle East from 1948 on.  If you did, then you’d have to accept Israel’s fundamental right to exist as a refuge for Jews, which you cannot.

Report this

By archivesDave, June 14, 2011 at 4:22 pm Link to this comment

Cliff Carson:
Excellent comments…
We can both also agree on the nefarious Rothschild
involvement.
So many folks take this information and try to broad-
brush all Jews with it…Big mistake, but a product
of our upbringing and media: All or nothing, black
or white, this or that.

Report this

By Shingo, June 14, 2011 at 3:54 pm Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind,

There is no inconsistency in my argument.

>> 4) Jews were never forced to leave those Arab states that are hostile to Israel and, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, in a state of war with the Jewish state.

There are 2 reasons for this:
1.  There is no evidence of Jews being forced to leave.  You yourself changed your terminology from being expelled to being made to feel unwelcome.
2. The narrative of Jews beign forced to leave only surfaced in the 70’s.

You see ITW?  No three triple back flips with a half-twists needed.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, June 14, 2011 at 2:29 pm Link to this comment

Shingo,
The only thing I’m getting desperate about is that you refuse to recognize a blatantly logical inconsistency you insist is true.
1) Jews drove Arabs out of Israel in 1948
2) Arab nations declare war on Israel in 1948
3) Jews migrate from Arab states to Israel en masse to the point that very few remain in the Arab nations
4) Jews were never forced to leave those Arab states that are hostile to Israel and, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, in a state of war with the Jewish state.

Everyone who believes the Jews were not driven out of the Arab nations do three triple back flips with a half-twist.

Because if you can do those mental gymnastics than the physical ones are child’s play.

Report this

By Son of Palestine, June 14, 2011 at 1:57 pm Link to this comment

By Drake, June 14 at 5:08 am

“I became curious about the basis of the Jewish “claim” to Palestine, how they were always crying “God gave it to us”, so I read their “claim”.
Their “claim” to Palestine, in a book THEY wrote,
is based entirely on War Crimes and GENOCIDE.
It is UNFAIR and WRONG to compare Israel to the Nazis.
The CORRECT comparison is that of the Nazis to the Israelis:

The Nazis just copied the Jewish “Manual” point by point:
KILL THE SICK and CRIPPLED
Numbers c.5 v.2-4
KILL HOMOSEXUALS
Leviticus c.20 v.13 well, really the whole chapter ...”
============================================
Drake,

I was intrigued by your comment supported by quotations from the Old Testament. It certainly should give many who are concerned with the issue at hand some food for thought. This is worth a scholarly study on the influence of so-called Holy Scriptures on the issues and problems of our time.

Starting with your references, I plan to attempt such comparative study. However, I am dreading in advance the conclusions of such a study for the simple reason that I have some wonderful and noble Jewish friends and acquaintances who are warriors for peace and justice, and thus I am afraid and hesitant to label all Jews under one blanket statement. Larry Gross and Miko Peled are just two examples of such noble Jews who don’t follow what you referred to as the “Jewish Manual.”

I would appreciate if you can share with me any thoughts on the limits of your post’s conclusions.

Report this

By Cliff Carson, June 14, 2011 at 11:40 am Link to this comment

Yes, you are correct archivesDave

The idea to take the “Holy Land” from the “infidels” could be ascribed to as long ago as the Crusades, and the plot was definitely on after the Russian Pogroms in the late 1800’s.

Why I said 1907 is because that was when the Rothschilds “officially” bankrolled the return.  Remember that they were handling most of the World’s money for the previous 150 years and also Ashkenazi.  The Zionists have been the real “pushers” of the return.

But in summary - You would be right, I left the wrong impression.

Report this

By Drake, June 14, 2011 at 5:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I became curious about the basis of the Jewish “claim” to Palestine,
how they were always crying “God gave it to us”,
so I read their “claim”.
Their “claim” to Palestine, in a book THEY wrote,
is based entirely on War Crimes and GENOCIDE.
It is UNFAIR and WRONG to compare Israel to the Nazis.
The CORRECT comparison is that of the Nazis to the Israelis:
The Nazis just copied the Jewish “Manual” point by point
KILL THE SICK and CRIPPLED
Numbers c.5 v.2-4
KILL HOMOSEXUALS
Leviticus c.20 v.13 well, really the whole chapter
KILL ALL DISSIDENTS:
Exodus c.32 v.27
Numbers c.11 v.1-2
Numbers c.16 all
Numbers c.21 v.5-6
Numbers v.26 v.10
KILL anyone who engages in “DIVERSITY” or “INTEGRATION”
Numbers v25 v.4-8
Deuteronomy c.14 v.2
DEHUMANIZE and then EXTERMINATE ALL NON-MEMBERS:
Numbers c.21 v.03 Canaanites
Numbers c.21 v.24 Amorites
Numbers c.21 v.33-35 Bashan
Numbers c.31 all   Midianites
Numbers c.32 v. more Amorites
Deuteronomy c.2 v.34 People of Heshbon
Deuteronomy c.3 v.6   really the whole chapter. threescore cities
Joshua c.12 A list of victims of Israeli GENOCIDE
Where are THEIR “holocaust” Memorials!
OCCUPY YOUR VICTIM’S DWELLINGS/LAND
Numbers c.21 v.25
Numbers c.32 v.39
Numbers c.33 v.53
(just to name a FEW)
GENOCIDE CODIFIED IN THEIR RELIGION
Numbers c.33 v.31-34
Deuteronomy c.7 v.2
Deuteronomy c.12 v.28-30
Deuteronomy c.20 v.11-16
TERRORISM CODIFIED IN THEIR RELIGION
Deuteronomy c.2 v.2
Deuteronomy c.7 v.1
Jews SELF-anointed “The CHOSEN People of GOD”
Nazis SELF-anointed “The GENETICALLY CHOSEN People of God”.

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By Shingo, June 14, 2011 at 4:15 am Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind,

>> So where did all the Jews in the Arab world go?

The majority of Israel’s Jews are izrahi/Sperphardic are they not?

>> You say they weren’t expelled, yet somehow, magically groups like Irgun were able to reach to all the Arab states and scare the pants off the SEPHARDIC Jews into leaving their homes and property

You’re getting desperate again ITW.  I said that most made Aliyah, therefore migrated to Israel for messinic reasons.  A few Jewish teror groups connected to Israe were caught settign off bombs in Baghadad, aimed at Jewish targets, which was pretty effective in convinving many of the Jews from Iraq to take off (believing they were being targetted for anti Semtismitic reasons).


>> How can Mossad, say, today, convince ME, a non-religious Jew, to leave the USA to go to Israel


I didn;t saythat, but thank you for demonstrating that Jews in the Arab world did not need to be expelled to end up in Israel.  Ben Gurion made it abundanty clear in his diaried that while the Jews in teh Arab world were uneducated, did not know how to pray, did not speak Hebrew and according to his own words, lacked personal hygene, they would ensure Israel’s survival due their mass migration to Israel.


>>  The fact that I PERSONALLY knew of 3 cases merely indicates that it didn’t just happen to “someone else”.

The fact that you PERSONALLY know of 3 cases means you you PERSONALLY know of 3 cases.  Being made to feel unlwecome is a far cry from bring driven from their homes at the point of a bayonette.

I doubt that stunts like the Lavon affair would have done much to help the plight of Jewish communities in Egypt.

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By Inherit The Wind, June 14, 2011 at 3:37 am Link to this comment

Shingo,
So where did all the Jews in the Arab world go?

You say they weren’t expelled, yet somehow, magically groups like Irgun were able to reach to all the Arab states and scare the pants off the SEPHARDIC Jews into leaving their homes and property to come to Israel where…groups like Irgun were strongest and…they would be treated as 2nd class to the Ashkinazim.

Just how does that work?  How can Mossad, say, today, convince ME, a non-religious Jew, to leave the USA to go to Israel, now dominated by a right-wing batch of religious fanatics about as “liberal” as the Islamic Council in Iran?  What’s the mechanism?

This just doesn’t pass the straight-faced test.  The fact that I PERSONALLY knew of 3 cases merely indicates that it didn’t just happen to “someone else”.

Occam’s Razor fills it in: They were clearly made unwelcome in their homelands, just as the smarter or luckier Jews were able to get out of post-1933 Germany because they DAMN well knew the worst was coming.

It’s fun to find nonsensical support of a position that should be unsupportable.

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By archivesDave, June 14, 2011 at 1:45 am Link to this comment

Cliff Carson:
>> “The dispossession of the Palestinians was planned
in 1907…” 
Au Contraire mon coco. That was a continuum:
  <http://prorege-forum.com/forum_entry.php?
id=12&page=0&category=Masons&order=last_answer>

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By Shingo, June 13, 2011 at 9:47 pm Link to this comment

Cliff Carson,

>> Someone mentioned non-defined Israel borders.  A little reading of history, and be sure to use Israeli Historians to maybe keep the trolls away, will reveal that the Zionist plan was to refuse to accept any borders that was not the Old Biblical borders of Zionist lore:

Actually, Israel does have defined borders, but for the reasons you pointed out. They want the world to pretend otherwise.

The fact is, Israel’s borders were declared and recognized as “within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947,” by the majority of the International Community and confirmed BY THE ISRAEL GOVERNMENT in statements to the UNSC BEFORE Israel was accepted into the UN and BEFORE Israel made any claims to territories beyond the actual extent of it’s SELF DECLARED frontiers.

UNGA Res 181 is STILL enshrined in the Declaration for the Establishment of the State of Israel. UNGA Res 181 was cited BY THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT to argue for Israel’s acceptance into the United Nations.
Official notice of the Declaration http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/decad169.asp

Israeli confirmation of it’s Sovereign extent http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/B4085A930E0529C98025649D00410973

Israeli confirmation of Sovereign extent http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Foreign+Relations/Israels+Foreign+Relations+since+1947/1947-1974/2+Israel-s+position+on+its+frontiers.htm

Israel’s first claim to territories “OUTSIDE of Israel” http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/fd807e46661e3689852570d00069e918/c96e0252e7710bce85256d95006bc157?OpenDocument

On May 15th 1948 the extent of Israel’s Sovereign territories were clearly defined in the Israeli Government’s official announcement of the Declaration for the Establishment of the State of Israel “within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947,”

On May 22, 1948 the Israeli Government confirmed it’s frontiers as “within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947,” in correspondence to the UNSC

By May 11th 1949 Israel had already been recognized by the majority of the International Community of Nations according to the Israeli Government statements of May 15th & May 22nd 1948 “within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947,” .

On 11 May 1949 Israel was accepted into the UN as a UN Member State as recognized, “within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947,”

On June 15, 1949 the Israeli Government again confirmed it’s frontiers in correspondence to the UNSC

On the 31st Aug 1949 Israel made it’s first official claim to territories beyond the extent of it’s sovereign frontiers AFTER IT’S BOUNDARIES WERE RECOGNIZED

Consecutive Israeli Governments have been LYING to it’s own citizens for 62 years..

May 15, 1948 Letter From the Agent of the Provisional Government of Israel to the President of the United States,
“MY DEAR MR. PRESIDENT: I have the honor to notify you that the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law. The Act of Independence will become effective at one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time.”

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By Robert, June 13, 2011 at 9:43 pm Link to this comment

Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land

U.S. Media & the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

How Israel manipulates and distorts American public perceptions

“Through the voices of scholars, media critics, peace activists, religious figures, and Middle East experts, Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land carefully analyzes and explains how—through the use of language, framing and context—the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza remains hidden in the news media, and Israeli colonization of the occupied territories appears to be a defensive move rather than an offensive one.”

@@@@@@@

Click on link to watch this film/video…You be the judge:


WATCH THE VIDEO FILM FOR FREE!

Run time 79 Minutes

http://www.pppl.org/

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By Cliff Carson, June 13, 2011 at 9:06 pm Link to this comment

Shingo

I visited one of those Japanese internment camps in Rowher, Arkansas when I was a child.  I well remember going thru the gate with my Uncle who was an officer in the Army and I remember the Guard Tower with the manned guns.

What I remember mostly though was my wondering what on Earth these people did to be placed behind barbed wire fences like cattle.

They must really be bad people I thought and I sure was glad that my Uncle had a pistol in his holster.  Those people behind the fence looked at me kind of strange like.  It made me uncomfortable.

Today as I look back on it, it makes me uncomfortable when I understand that they were in that prison simply because they were Japanese Americans.  The kids I saw there surely most of them were born in the United States.  How did the people of America visit such cruelty on Americans?

Of all people who you would never think could mistreat people would be victims of mistreatment.  But the Palestinians who did nothing to the Zionist or the Non-Zionist Jews have had to pay a terrible price and have become the victims of a vicious Nation that has no soul.

The Palestinians are not humans to the Nation Israel.  And I suspect that the Palestinians don’t see the Israeli people as being human either.

Someone mentioned non-defined Israel borders.  A little reading of history, and be sure to use Israeli Historians to maybe keep the trolls away, will reveal that the Zionist plan was to refuse to accept any borders that was not the Old Biblical borders of Zionist lore:

North to the Latini River in Lebanon
West to the Nile in Egypt
East to the Euphrates in Iraq
South to the Red Sea

This is 5 to 6 times the size of present day Israel.  The Zionist Goal in 1919 was to take possession of this land and to cleanse it of non-Jewish people.

How would be up top the non-Jews.

The dispossession of the Palestinians was planned in 1907.  To try to tie it to 1948 is pure PR.

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By Shingo, June 13, 2011 at 7:05 pm Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind,

Anyone can cite a few examples of Jews who were wronged after 1948, and hope this somehow translates into a convincing case of mass expulsion.  It doesn’t.

Like I said earlier, we know a story has no legs when even the right wing of a right wing government has dropped it.  I acknowledged that there was isolates cases of Jews being expelled, but in no way does this compare to the expulsion of the Palestinians, both in scale and intent.

>> For example, Anwar Sadat lived in a mansion stolen, oops, “abandoned” by a wealthy Jewish family—I learned THAT from an Egyptian Arab who was there then.

Irrelevant.  Golda Meir lived in a villa that belonged to a wealthy Arab Family.  The example of Sadat is a lame argument, seeing as the wealthy tend to be the first to leave (having the means to do so),  at the slightest suggestion of conflict.  Sadat’s home may well have been left empty by the owners, so that anecdote doesn’t hold water.

>> Another friend was a Tunisian Jew. She and her family were expelled from the land of her birth.

Expelled at gun point?  Were member of he family taken to the town square and executed to frighten them into leaving?  Were they running from a massacre that had been perpetrated earlier?

>> Yet another fled the Islamic regime in Iran. 

As it turns out, The Iranian Jews who fled did so for no reason, and were certainly were not expelled.  No Jews were killed during the revolution and the 25,000 Iranian living there today, who reject large cash incentives to migrate to Israel, continue to be a major source of embarrassment to Israel’s PR.

You wouldn’t be bringing up the treatment of Japanese-Americans if you had an actual example of the Jews being subjected to the same treatment (en mass) after 1948. 

>> One of the reasons Poland was the battlefield of so many wars is it had no defensible borders.

Poland was Europe’s whipping boy because of it’s strategic location, as is the case with Afghanistan.  Do you think every Empire that has met a grim fete in Afghanistan, and risked all to acquire a baron and mountainous territory just for the hell of it?
There are no rivers, mountains, deserts, oceans that stand between Israel proper and the West Bank..  If you’re referring to Israel and Jordan,  that leaves no room for any Palestinian state, which again demonstrates that when it comes to the reality of implementing a two state settlement, the only conditions acceptable to Israel mean no settlement at all.

>> And the Golan is the IDEAL place to attack Israel from…that’s why ANY Syrian military activity there would be an immediate declaration of war.

Rubbish.  Israel routinely indulges in activities with impunity that it considers an act of war when anyone else does it.  Even Dayan admitted that when it came to Syria, Israel incitted cnflict on 80% of occasions and did so tio deliberately provoke a response from the Syrians.

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By Cliff Carson, June 13, 2011 at 6:25 pm Link to this comment

Now here is a subject that has the Trolls out in force.  Time to “Spin” for the old Home Team.  And this subject of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is never in the U S Media presented in absolutely factual words.

In the news today is a perfect example of the “Spin” put on anything coming out of that region these days.

I’m sure most Americans don’t have a clue.

Today in an Associated Press article by Josef Federman “Palestinians Quarrel over Premier” a reader will find this statement by Mr. Federman:

“Fatah has been at loggerheads with Hamas since the Islamic Militant group won parliamentary elections in 2006.  A short lived Unity Government disintegrated the next year with Hamas over running the Gaza Strip.”

Now what was it that Mr. Federman forgot to mention? Well lets see if I can help you remember.

The U S and Israel set up the election and oversaw it to be sure there was no election fraud.  But that was when they were sure the United StateS/Israeli partner, Fatah, would win the election.

When Hamas won, their first declaration to the Palestinian People, and world news, was that they were going to try to begin talks with the Israelis.

But the U S and Israel were very upset that Hamas had won so - think real hard now - didn’t Israel go and arrest the newly elected Hamas government elected by the Palestinians - and stick them in an Israeli Prison?  And didn’t the Israelis close the Border stopping the inflow of any life sustenance for three months trying to starve the Palestinians into accepting Fatah as their Government?

Wonder why Mr. Federman didn’t mention these salient facts?  Mr. Federman strove to leave the impression that it was Hamas that was the fly in the soup.  Hamas had to fight off the attacking Fatah forces ( remember I said Fatah is more Israel’s lap dog then they are a force for the Palestinian people).  Hamas is the faction that truly represents the interests and welfare of the occupied Palestinians.

Hamas was not the fly in the soup.  This is the ugly side of American Media.  The truth is not in plain sight when they write about the conflict in the land of the oppressed - the land of the Palestinians.

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By Inherit The Wind, June 13, 2011 at 6:11 pm Link to this comment

Shingo,
I see you still live in a fantasy world where SOMEHOME Zionist NGOs were able to force Tunisian Jews to leave Tunisia, Libyan Jews to leave Libya, Algerian Jews to leave Algeria, Egyptian Jews to leave Egypt and that the leaders of those nations and all the others that declared war on Israel in 1948 all shrugged their shoulders and each “I dunno why they left…”

For example, Anwar Sadat lived in a mansion stolen, oops, “abandoned” by a wealthy Jewish family—I learned THAT from an Egyptian Arab who was there then.

Another friend was a Tunisian Jew. She and her family were expelled from the land of her birth.

Yet another fled the Islamic regime in Iran.  She was taken in by an Ultra-Orthodox family, but found THEIR brand of Judaism as suffocating as it had been at home.

These aren’t abstract numbers or debates by people looking the other, these are real people I have known.

If the Americans could lock up Japanese-Americans in a Democratic society without a shred of evidence of treason what the HELL makes you think that corrupt dictators in totalitarian societies dominated by religion wouldn’t do the same thing or worse when they went to war with Israel in 1948?

As for no borders being defensible: Shingo, that’s just plain stupid.  One of the reasons Poland was the battlefield of so many wars is it had no defensible borders. Belgium: The same. Afghanistan is “The Killer of Empires” because its borders and terrain are so easy to defend.

Rivers, mountains, deserts, oceans ALL act as barriers, air forces notwithstanding.  Had France and England stood with Czechoslovakia in 1938, Hitler’s hegemonic “impulses” would have resulted in disaster—that land is eminently defensible. Tito’s forces pinned down TWENTY-EIGHT GERMAN DIVISIONS in WWII…That’s the Balkans for you.

And the Golan is the IDEAL place to attack Israel from…that’s why ANY Syrian military activity there would be an immediate declaration of war.

Two easily discredited myths you still adhere to.

And the hits just keep on coming!

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By Shingo, June 13, 2011 at 5:02 pm Link to this comment

>> Too many Jews in North Africa and Asia lost all there property as well. Furthermore, denial of the expulsion of those Jews is equally a deal-breaker.

The expulsion narrati8ve was invented in 1970.  Yes, there were some who were driven out as retaliation over the Nakba, but it was not a large scale event.  Even the Likudniks, who initially seized this narrative dropped it like a hot potato.

As for the Jews from North Africa, you forgot to mention Jews from Arab countries who were forced by Zionist agencies and their actions to leave homelands, to leave their own villas and move to Israel where they were treated with racist patronizing condescension, where they were forced to ‘assimilate’ by forgetting their language, their culture, and their own names as many were Hebrewized. And let us not forget the alienation they felt when they were sprayed with de-licers upon arrival in Israel as they were considered to be ‘unclean’, or the squalid conditions in which they were housed in Ma’barot to serve as the labor force for the ‘civilized’ racist Zionist Europeans.

>>  Under no circumstances other than brute force can I see Israel ceding the right to access the Western Wall, denied from 1948 to 1967.

Back to the Netenyahu talking points. 
E. Jerusalem? Non-negotiable.
West Bank settlements? Non-negotiable
Palestinian right of return? Non-negotiable
Hamas? Non-negotiable.

FYI.  Access to Israel was denied from 1948 to 1967 because the 2 states were at war.

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By Shingo, June 13, 2011 at 4:59 pm Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind,

I missed you too bud, but I’m saddened to see that you haven’t really come to grips with recent events and revelations since we last arm wrestled.

I saw your reference to the the posters who you claim deny Israel’s right to exist. While they both made inflammatory statements, neither even addressed the subject of Israel’s right to exist.  If sludgegulper’s comment had replaced Israel with any other state, I doubt you’d objection to the idea that a society that brutally oppresses others has no right to live in peace.

That’s what we mean by “live and let live”.

I know you’ve always clung to the concept of 2-state solution, but line most liberal Zionists, you cannot come to terms with the steps required to achieve it.  The closer we get to a 2-state solution, more objections you throw up

>> Your list of “demands” for “peace” is just that, a list of demands.

You sound like Netenyahu. The Israelis and their American spinmeisters have become masters of this “art”.  It’s always a “demand” when Israel is required to abide by international law or agreements it has signed on to. 

FYI.  According to the Road Map that Israel signed and ratified in 2002, Israel agreed to stop building settlements in 2002, yet when Abbas insisted that Israel be held to that obligation 2010,  Netenyahu got away with spinning it as though this was some radical new idea. 

You asked what “Real world steps!” would be required to achieve a settlement, but as the Palestine Papers illustrated so vividly, your idea of of steps involves imposing demands on the Palestinians only.

>> 1. 1967 indefensible borders?

There is no such thing as defensible borders, but once again, you’ve adopted Netenyahu’s 2011 talking point wholesale.  No natter where you draw those borders, there is always someone on other side who could turn nasty.  Israel’s 1967 borders served Israel well for 18 years before Israel then decided to start another war and attack Egypt.

As Sholomo Ben-Ami recently wrote:
“Indeed, the last war that Israel won “elegantly” – in the way that Netanyahu imagines that wars should be won – began from the supposedly “indefensible” 1967 lines.” 

The fact that Israel won the ‘67 war and escaped defeat by the skin of it’s teeth in ‘73 (when Egypt made no attempt to cross the ‘67 borders) makes a stronger case for those borders being sufficient.

Modification like the term “peace process” is simply another weazel sphrase by which Israel can exploit the situation.  The “peace process” has been nothing more than a pacification process to paper over the expansion of Jewish settlers and settlements.

>> 2.  I have advocated this identical point for years.

Citizenship would oblige those living in the Palestinian state to recognise the legitimacy of the state, as opposed to fortifying their settlements and living a parallel existence.

>> 3.  Took about a can of worms!  I cannot see this happening unless the JEWISH refugees forced out of the Arab nations after 1948 are equally compensated. 

There’s no problem with it, though I suspect you’ve bought the idea that there was a mas expulsion after 1948, which is blatantly false.

There were a handful of Jews forced out of Arab states AFTER Israel expelled 750,000, but the 900,000 figure was pulled out of the air by Yaakov Meron of the World Organization of Jews from Arab Countries (WOJAC) , shortly after the WOJAC was created in the 1970s.  The WOJAC was not created to assist Mizrahi Jews; it was invented as a deterrent to block claims harbored by the Palestinian national movement, particularly claims related to compensation and the right of return.

Continued…

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By Inherit The Wind, June 13, 2011 at 2:24 pm Link to this comment

LocalHero, June 13 at 11:13 am Link to this comment

Wow, ITW. How’s the kool-aid?
********

You tell me. I’m stickin’ to beer.

(why does everyone say Kool-Aid?  It was Flavor-Aid that was poisoned.)

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By dailyplanet, June 13, 2011 at 1:26 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

While all the “outsiders” are mapping out the future of the Middle East…guess
what… the Arab world has their own plans and it’s not for democracy as the
West would like to see it.

The current “popular” uprisings and turmoil in that part of the world will bring
about Islamic theocracies who will do everything to restrict “foreign influences.”
It will be a tricky juggling act given they have the oil and everyone else in the
world needs and wants it.

The Arab world has never embraced secular societies. The Islamic religion
informs their culture, law, and political life.

Israel will become an isolated piece of geography, surrounded by dedicated
enemies whose strategy is proscribed by Allah. America has always been a tentative Israeli ally, support contingent on American interests in the region. That “support” will be sustained or withdrawn depending on how things shake out in the rest of the Middle East.

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By LocalHero, June 13, 2011 at 11:13 am Link to this comment

Wow, ITW. How’s the kool-aid?

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By Inherit The Wind, June 13, 2011 at 9:43 am Link to this comment

Nice straw man ITW.  Would you care to mention who denied Israel had any right to exist?  Oh that’s right, no one did, just you.
***********

Nice to see you, Shingo! Missed ya!  I’ve had to do with far stupider defenders of your positions in the meantime!

Now, I suggest you look back—I’ve already shown TWO posters who deny Israel’s right to exist.

You know damn well I have ALWAYS believed in the 2-state solution.

Your list of “demands” for “peace” is just that, a list of demands.

“1.  Israel returns to it’s pre 1967 borders without modicifcation.”
1967 indefensible borders? Sounds good on paper but Israel’s security rational concerns MUST be addressed and adjustments made (Hell, they WON the ‘67 and ‘73 wars. Love how everyone wants them to act like they LOST them). Modification is key, but it needs to be agreed-on.

“2.  Those living in the illegal settlements get to remain if they agree to become citizens of the Palestinian state, and agree to share the water resources they are annexing and their roads”
I have advocated this identical point for years. I don’t know that they need to become citizens (though it works better if they do) but all parties MUST agree that the settlements are totally under the legal authority of the Palestinian State.

“3.  All refugees are compensated”
Took about a can of worms!  I cannot see this happening unless the JEWISH refugees forced out of the Arab nations after 1948 are equally compensated. 
This is a non-starter, and you know it.
Too many Jews in North Africa and Asia lost all there property as well. Furthermore, denial of the expulsion of those Jews is equally a deal-breaker.

“4.  Jerusalem is shared.”
I’m not sure what this means. It’s currently being shared, but if you mean it’s the capital of both nations, well, if there’s a way to make it work, I’d sure like to see what that was.  Under no circumstances other than brute force can I see Israel ceding the right to access the Western Wall, denied from 1948 to 1967.

“5.  None of this demilitarized BS.  If Israel can be armed to the teeth, the same goes for Palestine.”
I have no objection to any state having an armed force.  But if an unarmed border is to be enforced, both sides must be fully committed to it, preventing arms and terrorists from getting into Israel and the same from Israel’s side to keep from turning the settlements into armed forts.

“6.  Impose no fly zones for at least a decade and a peace keeping force”.
Tom Clancy beat you the punch on that one by at least 20 years. He proposed it in “The Sum of All Fears”.

“7.  Reconciliation impoosed on both sides”
Not sure what this means but on the surface it sounds good.

“of course, Israel would agree to none of these conditinos. “
Actually, it had agreed to much of it before that asshole Ygl Emir murdered Yitzack Rabin.

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By Shingo, June 13, 2011 at 6:36 am Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind.

>>  Just how do all of you who say Israel has no right to exist propose to bring a peaceful settlement, without a bloodbath?

Nice straw man ITW.  Would you care to mention who denied Israel had any right to exist?  Oh that’s right, no one did, just you.

It is a BS argument anyway, seeing as Israel doesn’t need a right to exist, any more than the US does.

>> Or are you OK with a blood bath as long as it’s Jews and not Muslims who bleed? 

What’s the matter ITW?  Have you become so accustomed to watching Arabs bleed that you might miss it?

>>  And are they expected to leave behind all the fruits of their labor, buildings, factories, farms, wells irrigation systems, ROADS, cities, all created since 1948?

You mean like the Palestinians were forced to do in 1947 – 1948 when Israel expelled them, stole their land, looted their homes, and inherited all the infrastructure they left behind, not to mention the British bases and camps handed to them by the British, along with the their weapons, arms, tanks and vehicles and munition. This included 2,700 government buildings, 50 train stations, 3,000 km of paved roads, a number of sea ports, and 37 military camps filled with weapons and space parts.

>> Can they even keep their clothes when they go “somewhere”? Where?

They could move back to Israel (as opposed to the settlements) though a larghe percentage of Israelis have foreign passports or are applying for them in record numbers.

>>  How many more millions of Jews must be murdered before the world says “OK, That’s enough”

Desperate and dishonest.  The Palestinians played no part in the Holocaust ITW.

How many Palestinians must be expelled and how much land must be stolen for Israel to say says “OK, That’s enough”?

>>  Since 5 million central Africans have been murdered in the Congo wars without the World saying “enough”, it’s clear that all the Jews in Israel can be murdered as well with no reaction.

Here wee go with the Charles Manson defense.  I’m sure he thinks he should get parole or even a pardon seeing as the perpetator for the Son of Sam murders was never arrested.

>> How are you Israel-haters going to settle this without a bloodbath?  What are the steps? What will happen?  Real world steps!

Easy. 
1.  Israel returns to it’s pre 1967 borders without modicifcation.
2.  Those living in the illegal settlements get to remain if they agree to become citizens of the Palestinian state, and agree to share the water resources they are annexing and their roads
3.  All refugees are compensated
4.  Jerusalem is shared.
5.  None of this demilitarized BS.  If Israel can be armed to the teeth, the same goes for Palestine.
6.  Impose no fly zones for at least a decade and a peace keeping force
7.    Reconciliation impoosed on both sides

of course, Israel would agree to none of these conditinos.

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By Shingo, June 13, 2011 at 6:22 am Link to this comment

Howard,

It seems that your lies got no tracion on the other thread so you’re tying your luck here.

>>  No Jews can get in the 22 arab states

False.

In a recent e-mail message, Imad Moustapha, Syrian ambassador to the United States, told The Chronicle that “all properties owned by Syrian Jews have been left untouched for when they choose to visit or return.”
http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-06-28/news/17209421_1_syrian-jews-jewish-syrians-wave-of-jewish-emigration
“Syrian President Bashar Assad has approved the renovation of 11 synagogues across the country. “
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4025681,00.html
Asad, Hasbani said, was different from past Syrian leaders in that he was the first president to truly pay attention to the concerns of Syria’s Jews.
http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/L/Joshua.M.Landis-1/syriablog/2005/10/jews-of-syria-by-robert-tuttle.htm
Syria invites Israeli rabbi to visit Damascus
http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=218586&R=R3
>>  all have been thrown out with nothing on their backs.
False. 
Most of the Jews from Arabs States migrated to Israel to make Alyah, in fact, most were tricked into doing so. You forgot to mention Jews from Arab countries were forced by Zionist agencies and their actions to leave homelands, to leave their own villas and move to Israel where they were treated with racist patronizing, where they were forced to ‘assimilate’ by forgetting their language, their culture, and their own names as many were Hebrewized. And let us not forget the alienation they felt when they were sprayed with de-licers upon arrival in Israel as they were considered to be ‘unclean’, or the squalid conditions in which they were housed in Ma’barot to serve as the labor force for the ‘civilized’ racist Zionist Europeans.

>>  Meanwile in Israel christians, arabs,
Muslims,hindus, zoartrens,  etc. are treated like citizens and are citizens.

Christians and Druze 2nd class citizens yes.  Arabs much worse.

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By Shingo, June 13, 2011 at 6:15 am Link to this comment

dailyplanet,

>> The destruction of Israel, and by the way, the annihilation of the Israeli Jews has
been a goal to which many have been dedicated to for generations.

Pure hysterian, though Israel managed to destroy the Palestinian society and over 400 villages in the process of creting it’s Jewish majority in 1948.

>> This is no silent conspiracy or well kept secret
No government leader, not even Iran, has threatened Israel.

>>  You are right about that. However, there are many Americans who think that a
democratic government is not incompatible with the adoption of an official
religion…

Grow up. The American Constitution explaicitly specifies teh seperation of church and state.

>>  They are a vocal group of Christians who maintain that America is a Christian country and it’s politics should be informed by the Bible and Jesus Christ.

Those Christians and religious nut jobs who’s loyalty is not to their country, but to their faith.  As far as they are concerned, the US can burn in hell.

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By Shingo, June 13, 2011 at 6:07 am Link to this comment

>>  Israel is held to a standard NO other nation in the region, and no Muslim-dominated nation is held to.

You’re right ITW.  Israel gets to develop nukes with the blessing and help from the US and the French while Iran is punished for not even having them.  Every time Israel does somethign criminal, it’s gets rewarded.
Yeah, standards indeed.

>> Exceptions and excuses are found to justify that actions of other nations down the centuries and up till today, but Israel isn’t “allowed” them.

What other state, that claims to be a democracy, is militarily occupying another population imposing apartheid, massacaring peopel by the thousands?

>> That the Muslim religious dictatorships don’t claim to be democratic JUSTIFIES their dictatorship

No it doesn’t, but unlike Israel,  no one is pretending they are anything but dictatorships, much less arguing that their state santioned violence and crimes are morally justified.


>> Nor is any peaceful solution offered by the anti-Israel crowd. No solution that doesn’t end in another forced emigration, or bloodbath.

Pure hysteria and blantat lies. 
The anti-Israel crowd have been pushing the two state solution for decades.  Netenyahu ran on a platform of rejectiong of teh 2ss and now Israel has killed it, yet here you are, blaming the anti-Israel crowd for Israel’s policies.

>> I’ve told you what needs to be done.  Both sides need to be dragged kicking and screaming the peace table. Israel, by the West, Palestinians by the Arab and Muslim states.

Yeah you tell em ITW, what we need is more ummm…“negotiations”.  Fer’s crying out loud ITW.  Read Your Road Map Document .
The Palestine Papers revealed what it means to be dragegd to the table.  Here is usually how it goes.

Israel sits in the room and smirk as yet another hapless Palestinian negotiating team is dragged into the room by whoever happens to be the President of the United States.

At which point the Israel negotiator crosses his arms, furrows his brow, and drawls: “Well, I haven’t got all day, wadda’ gonna’ offer me?” He will then reject that offer - regardless of what it is - and the only time he will unfold his arms will be to bang his fist on the table and bellow “That. Is. Not. Good. Enough!”

You will never get an answer to the question “Well then, what do you want?” because the Israeli leadership knows full well that if they ever let *THAT* cat out of the bag then the entire world will recoil in horror at what falls out onto the carpet. But they have always refused to tell - and I’ll wager that they WILL always refuse to tell - because the honest answer is not something that they want the Goys to hear.

But hey, it’s much easier for liberal Zionists like yourself to keep lying to yourselves and pretend it’s all the fault of the religious fantics behind Shas.


That’s the beauty of the “anti-semite” card: Israel can point blank refuse to release its “plans” for the occupied territories, and anyone in a position of power who dares to suggest that this is Not A Sign Of Good Intent From Israel gets slapped with the anti-semite card and sin-binned.

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By Inherit The Wind, June 13, 2011 at 5:47 am Link to this comment

Excuses, excuses.
Israel is held to a standard NO other nation in the region, and no Muslim-dominated nation is held to.
Exceptions and excuses are found to justify that actions of other nations down the centuries and up till today, but Israel isn’t “allowed” them.
That the Muslim religious dictatorships don’t claim to be democratic JUSTIFIES their dictatorship (And Iran CERTAINLY claims to be a democracy, and is certainly more democratic than the old Eastern Bloc Soviet-dominated “Peoples’ Democracies”)

Nor is any peaceful solution offered by the anti-Israel crowd. No solution that doesn’t end in another forced emigration, or bloodbath.

I’ve told you what needs to be done.  Both sides need to be dragged kicking and screaming the peace table. Israel, by the West, Palestinians by the Arab and Muslim states.

The religious fanatics on both sides need to be neutralized, politically if they are peaceful about it, militarily if they use violence.

THAT IS IT!

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By archivesDave, June 13, 2011 at 5:04 am Link to this comment

Cliff Carson:
Albert Pike and the Rothschild henchmen, one and the
same! ...The nefarious closet empire, the continuum,
IS the NWO closing in fast.
With some further investigation, u’ll find that even
some of the elite Muslim leaders (political and
religious), are in it up to their eyeballs.

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By Cliff Carson, June 13, 2011 at 3:56 am Link to this comment

Yes Tom Edgar

Simply Put David Ben-Guren was a Terrorist.

I am familiar with Albert Pike and his approach to Zionist Ideals.  He was a Zealot much as some of today’s Televangelist are.

I am referring to one in particular who stated on TV that Christians could NOT go to heaven unless they supported the Nation Israel. 

I asked him if he had ever read Second John.  He ignored the question. 

When I said 1880’s what I was referencing was the Pogroms in Russia as a kick-off point.  By the set in stone I meant when the plan financing was put in place by the Rothschild bunch.

The Palestinians are victims of a plan that had nothing to do with the Holocaust although this event helped the Zionist aggression tremendously.

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By PatrickHenry, June 13, 2011 at 3:47 am Link to this comment

Inherit,

You keep making the same point about a Jewish state but have no objection to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Pakistan or the Taliban-run Afghanistan being strictly Islamic states.

Now you are jumping to conclusions and assuming that I have no objections which I do. 

The issue is that the Arab countries refuse to recognize Israel as a ‘Jewish state’, not that they refuse to recognize Israel.

The countries you mentioned do not tout themselves as ‘democracies’ which they are not.  I hope when the Arab spring finally resolves itself, a true democratic charter finds its way into those nations constitutions. 

But this article isn’t about them now is it?

One of the cornerstones of a Democracy is that state religions are not sanctioned nor any law passed to further a specific religion or a culturally specific group for that matter.

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By Tom Edgar, June 12, 2011 at 9:51 pm Link to this comment

Oh yes there are others who object to the existence of Israel as a JUDAIC STATE. Myself included, but I have the same reservations for Islamic/Christian States also.

As for Israel it preexisted 1948 as a Secular entity embracing any religion or none.

The rabid pro Israelis will not even address let alone acknowledge it when this is pointed out and would sooner diverge from the argument and ignore any factual references antagonistic to the Israeli cause.

References to the Monarchial/Christian European nations is a little supercilious.  Even the U K whilst it is designated a Constitutional Monarchy, and by law that Monarch must be Anglican, can hardly be called a religious State.  Britain has, probably, the highest number of, per capita, atheists in the Western World.

Virtually all the other “Monarchies” too, are that in name only, whilst their relevance is generally ornamental & historical.

Cliff Carson…....Add to your list Ben Gurian was a member of the Stern Gang that terror bombed the King David Hotel used by British Soldiers.  Then the present day mob who attacked the USS Liberty
murdering many American mariners who were supposed to be allies at the time, and that with the connivance of the U S President and commanding Admiral.

Don’t forget the kidnapping, renditioning, torturing and imprisonment without trial of so many, including even some of their own who dared to question Zionist policies. Or am I getting U S A and Israel mixed up?  No matter, same actions. Hard to know who is Teacher and Pupil.

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By archivesDave, June 12, 2011 at 8:38 pm Link to this comment

Cliff Carson,
Sorry but you’re a little tardy to the game.
Do some more gumshoeing and you’ll find the
blueprint was drawn in 1871 by Albert Pike!

“History is mostly guessing and the rest is prejudice”
  Will Durant

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By Dailyplanet, June 12, 2011 at 8:21 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

America is NOT YET a Christian political entity. But then it isn’t a Democracy
either. American is a Capitalist Plutocracy, where the elite provide the political
players who ultimately form policy and run the machine for the benefit of those
who have the most money. Democrat or Republican, the label doesn’t
matter…they both answer to the same paymasters.

USA! USA! USA! Where the only thing that matters is the color of your money.

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By Cliff Carson, June 12, 2011 at 8:17 pm Link to this comment

I see the same Pro-Israel attack dogs on here that infest other sites.  One thing that is hard to find whenever an Anti-Zionism article is written is a discussion of what happened to the Palestinians from the 1880’s to 1948.

The Palestinians were terrorized by the Zionist faction unmercifully. 

All you have to do is read some Zionist History.

If you do you will find that the plan to take over Palestine and evict the Arabs was set in stone in 1907.  David Ben-Guren gave a very famous speech stating that the Arabs would have to be expelled once the Zionist got control politically.

Some sites on the Internet won’t allow a person to use the word Zionist.

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By archivesDave, June 12, 2011 at 4:50 pm Link to this comment

Good posts ITW, Howard, and Daily Planet!

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By Inherit The Wind, June 12, 2011 at 2:38 pm Link to this comment

No one disputes Israels right to exist,

I think this guy does:

sludgegulper, June 11 at 2:13 pm Link to this comment

The time for Israel to make “effective” and lasting peace with its neighbours is long gone. Too much blood (mostly Palestinian) has been spilt for there to be any meaningful and sincere settlement between the warring factions. For me the turning point came a few years back when I watched with disbelief and horror the murderous IDF shooting at a father and his young child, trying to hide behind a wall. The bullets continued hitting all around them and finally at them until they were both dead; cold blooded, premeditated murder. People who do that don’t deserve to live in a peaceful state; Israel has lost its legitimacy and will never have peace.

Or this guy:
expat, June 9 at 11:44 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

israel has lost all legitimacy,

it is nothing but a fascist racist state bent on ethnic cleansing and who is practicing it on a daily basis and which has managed to subvert the west’s political establishments, its media, its entertainment industry and let’s not forget banking.

I can’t wait till it starts another unprovoked act of aggression and, in return, gets vaporized into oblivion once and for all (2 small nukes are sufficient, it’s a small occupied country) by someone who covertly did have nukes at the ready.

You keep making the same point about a Jewish state but have no objection to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Pakistan or the Taliban-run Afghanistan being strictly Islamic states.  In Pakistan today, ANY politician who advocates repeal of the Blasphemy Laws (against Islam, of course) will find himself quickly murdered in the street.  I’m not making this shit up.  How many “Christian” nations are there, complete with a monarch belonging to a Church?  The UK, Denmark, Holland, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Luxembourg, and Spain.  Even little Monaco and Lichtenstein.  Sure, they are liberal nations who after 1000 years of persecution, finally in the post-WWII Era practice universal suffrage—but they still keep their CHRISTIAN monarch as the head of state.

Fundamentalist keep trying establish in law that the US is a “Christian” nation.  None of this offends you, at least not enough to comment on.  Only the one Jewish state in the world raises your ire.

It can’t be solely the injustices against the Arabs.  Surely the injustices of Muslim leaders against their own are far worse.  Remember what Assad did in Syria? Or Hussein in Iraq? Or what the Serbs and Bosnians did? or what’s going on in Congo today?

Why this one and only this one?

Yet you ignore this and focus only on

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By dailyplanet, June 12, 2011 at 2:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Whaaaaat! “No one disputes Israel’s right to exist.”

PatrickHenry, do you actually believe this?

The destruction of Israel, and by the way, the annihilation of the Israeli Jews has
been a goal to which many have been dedicated to for generations. This is no
silent conspiracy or well kept secret. It’s been shouted out loud and
documented in written manifestos of unambiguous intent.

What are you taking about?!!!

By the way, you say that a democracy should be free of a “state religion.” You
are right about that. However, there are many Americans who think that a
democratic government is not incompatible with the adoption of an official
religion… And who is this contingent who refuse to subscribe to a separation of
church and state? They are a vocal group of Christians who maintain that
America is a Christian country and it’s politics should be informed by the Bible
and Jesus Christ.

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By Howard, June 12, 2011 at 2:11 pm Link to this comment

Well, we here are a ‘christian state’ in U.S.  And all religions get along.
  No Jews can get in the 22 arab states; all have been thrown out with nothing on their backs.
  Meanwile in Israel christians, arabs, Muslims,hindus, zoartrens,  etc. are treated like citizens and are citizens.  Not put in camps. Let the israelis have their democratic country like it is.
  Only , repeat only, democracy in Mid east.
7 cheers for Israel.

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By PatrickHenry, June 12, 2011 at 12:14 pm Link to this comment

Inherit,

You even got Howard to piss his pants for you, nice.

No one disputes Israels right to exist, but you and Howard always seem to leave out of your arguement is the non-starter with many…‘as a Jewish state’.

Todays ‘democratic’ nation state cannot be a specific race, religion or culture.  To be so would be undemocratic to the other non-Jewish inhabitants who were born there.

If Israel is to be given U.S. aid, it should ascribe to our values, if they don’t we should cut that aid and join an embargo like we did South Africa.

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By Howard, June 12, 2011 at 10:00 am Link to this comment

ITW,

BRAVO !
  Well said !!

Explained nicely !
Rite on.
  Realistic and factual.

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By Inherit The Wind, June 12, 2011 at 8:36 am Link to this comment

So…there are 5 Million Jews in Israel. Just how do all of you who say Israel has no right to exist propose to bring a peaceful settlement, without a bloodbath?

Or are you OK with a blood bath as long as it’s Jews and not Muslims who bleed?  You claim Jews think Muslims aren’t human. Do you think Jews aren’t?  It sure sounds that way!

When some say Israel has no right to exist are they saying what I think they are saying? That 5 million Israelis should leave?  Where should they go?  And are they expected to leave behind all the fruits of their labor, buildings, factories, farms, wells irrigation systems, ROADS, cities, all created since 1948?

Can they even keep their clothes when they go “somewhere”? Where?

Or will they stay and face the murderous reaction sure to follow?  How many more millions of Jews must be murdered before the world says “OK, That’s enough”  Since 5 million central Africans have been murdered in the Congo wars without the World saying “enough”, it’s clear that all the Jews in Israel can be murdered as well with no reaction.

Or maybe the rest of the world should just nuke Israel with weapons that have fast-dissipating radioactivity?

How are you Israel-haters going to settle this without a bloodbath?  What are the steps? What will happen?  Real world steps!

Or are you going use mealy-mouthed jabberwock about “Linguistics” and “communication” to abdicate responsibility?

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By sharonsj, June 12, 2011 at 7:58 am Link to this comment

I think all the Palestinians who say they lost homes in the Mabka should be given the homes of the Jews who lost them when they fled Arab lands.  Since the same number of Jews fled as Palestinians, it’s an even trade.

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By archivesDave, June 12, 2011 at 4:40 am Link to this comment

Tom Edgar:
Truthdig cut off the last part of the Steve Quayle
link.
Go to this:
<www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/04_Unrest/040406.Albert
.Pike.who.html>

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By archivesDave, June 12, 2011 at 4:13 am Link to this comment

Tom Edgar:
I don’t know exactly what ‘Ratbag’ you were referring
to but Jordan Maxwell has some pretty good clips about
Albert Pike on youtube that are pretty fascinating even
tho I don’t subscribe to some of his conclusions.
Here is a pretty good write up on Pike by Steve Quayle:
http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/04_Unrest/040406.
Albert.Pike.who.html

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By Howard, June 12, 2011 at 3:42 am Link to this comment

•The tragedy befalling the Palestinian Arabs in 1948 was exclusively of their own making. Large numbers of them were driven from their homes by their own leaders and/or the “Arab Liberation Army” that had entered Palestine prior to the end of the Mandate.
•Of this there is an overwhelming and incontrovertible body of contemporary evidence - intelligence briefs, captured Arab documents, press reports, personal testimonies and memoirs.
•In the largest and best-known example of Arab-instigated exodus, tens of thousands of Arabs were ordered or bullied into leaving the city of Haifa (on April 21-22) on the instructions of the Arab Higher Committee, the effective “government” of the Palestinian Arabs. Only days earlier, Tiberias’ 6,000-strong Arab community had been similarly forced out by its own leaders.
•In Jaffa, Palestine’s largest Arab city, the municipality organized the transfer of thousands of residents by land and sea; in Jerusalem, the AHC ordered the transfer of women and children, and local gang leaders pushed out residents of several neighborhoods.
•In the words of a British intelligence report: “Many would not have responded to the call for a complete evacuation but for the rumors and propaganda spread by the [Arab] National Committee.”
•The deliberate depopulation of Arab villages and their transformation into military strongholds was a hallmark of the Arab campaign from the onset of hostilities.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-harris/why-history-matters-the-1_b_873387.html

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By Tom Edgar, June 12, 2011 at 1:47 am Link to this comment

Well I wasted ten minutes of my long life listening to that ratbag talking on Pike and then forecasting an even crazier scenario.

When I was but eighteen years old and having served in WW2 and afterwards spending a little time in the Middle East I told my mother that the next major conflict would be in that area.  Does that make me an intellectual genius with powers of prescience, or just a passably educated, and moderately intelligent observer of the patently obvious?

The Freemasons have been traditionally opposed to Islam, always seeing them as the ultimate Antichrist,
so it is no wonder that a rabid racist, Ku Klux Klan member such as Pike would see the ultimate as being, yet once again, a clash between Islam and Christendom. As for narrator’s claim of “Atheist Movement”  Being a lifelong atheist myself I have never known of such an organisation.  Once again those who don’t know anything about atheism pretend they do.  Atheists are simply those who have never seen the evidence to support the existence of Gods.

Atheists do NOT have an agenda, nor an aim, we, as far as I know just feel sorry for those who stay attached to their, “From the cradle indoctrination.” into whatever religious organisation they are born or live.  The only other thing I see as a common factor is the objection to having any religious doctrine enforced, or coerced, into the lives of others, especially the malleable minds of the young.
It is objectionable if it is the enforced rote learning of the Koran, the Catholic’s catechism or other creeds, equally brainwashing, indoctrinations in all their manifestations.

Atheist have only one similarity and that is teaching their children to think, and make a decision for themselves.  My three diverge widely. I must have slipped up by not brainwashing.  At least none are conventionally Churched.  They are like myself in one respect only, still questioning, still searching for answers, I take heart in that none, to date, and just like myself, has found a religious answer.

I find it amusing the name Albert Pike is also the name of the character in the British comedy who is a bumbling, naive, nincompoop.  I wonder if the name choice was deliberate????

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By archivesDave, June 12, 2011 at 12:15 am Link to this comment

For those who’d like a different perspective on all of
this, published in 1871,look up Albert Pike’s document
that was a prescient blueprint on many of these events
as well as World War One, World War Two and World War
THREE.

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By Tom Edgar, June 11, 2011 at 9:19 pm Link to this comment

Howard.

61 years ago Palestinian Muslims could have had their own land?  65 years ago they already had their land were they owned homes, and property in RELATIVE harmony along with their Semitic Christian, Jew and secular brothers and sisters.  Thereafter they were forced out and magnanimously offered APARTHEID.

Once again HOWARD ignores the FACTS I present and goes off on another tangent.  I reckon I was right.  A Politician no less.

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By archivesDave, June 11, 2011 at 8:46 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

For those who wish to get a totally different
perspective on all of this, go to Albert Pike’s
‘Morals and Dogma’.
Also specifically take a look at his 1871 published
blueprint for WW One, WW Two, and the coming WW THREE!

Kind of blows your mind just how prescient the guy was.

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By Howard, June 11, 2011 at 8:05 pm Link to this comment

it turned out that photo of father and son hiding behind the wall was a proven fake.
And who is Israel to make peace with?  Those whose agenda and constitutions and leaders every day say and shout that Israel should and will be eliminated?
  61 years ago the pal’s could have had their own nation.  Right alongside Israel.  But they did not want it and their arab nations around them invaded and thought they would eliminate all the Israeli citizins and state.
    And again in ‘67.  and in ‘73.
One can certainy understand why Israel is skeptical of trading land for peace with out Some semblance of security.
  Not forgetting that when they left Gaza , what then happened.  The missles and rockets came indiscrimately from Gaza into Israel.

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By Tom Edgar, June 11, 2011 at 6:06 pm Link to this comment

Howard is probably a Politician in the making.  He ignores totally my FACTUAL observations, and others also.

As for the specious arguments of Inherit the Wind.
The cynicism towards the “Racially Inferior.” Palestinian Arabs, who just happen to be Semitic also, needs answering.  Sarcastic references to citizenship for 17th century occupants pales into insignificance when one is actually considering the occupation RIGHTS of PRESENT DAY living non Jewish people, or their children, who have been evicted
in the very recent past, from their country to which some have occupation rights going way beyond the 17th century. Not the usurper’s rights of the recently arrived.

To Howard who has the temerity to quote the incompetent League of Nations, mainly a European clique set up post WW1 to emasculate Germany and then carve up the Middle East into parcels for the major European Nations.  Palestine was, along with Iraq, a British gain. It is interesting that no longer do the Israeli apologist claim the country is theirs because Jehovah said so.  If you really want to claim ancient prior ownership then the Moses Mob should hand it back to the original owners.

Once again ignoring my previous remarks Howard, I point to the fact that Israel is a Fascist look alike. Imprisonment without trial, torturing, kidnapping, assassinations, illegal land acquisition, illegal possession of weapons of mass destruction, and even worse the lack of reluctance to even attack allies when in pursuit of their aims.  viz killing British troops with a terrorist bombing in the Hotel King David. Tel Aviv.  The attack on the American USS Liberty, amongst many others.  It is true very few nations are not tainted similarly, but Israel brings hypocrisy to new levels.

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By sludgegulper, June 11, 2011 at 2:13 pm Link to this comment

The time for Israel to make “effective” and lasting peace with its neighbours is long gone. Too much blood (mostly Palestinian) has been spilt for there to be any meaningful and sincere settlement between the warring factions. For me the turning point came a few years back when I watched with disbelief and horror the murderous IDF shooting at a father and his young child, trying to hide behind a wall. The bullets continued hitting all around them and finally at them until they were both dead; cold blooded, premeditated murder. People who do that don’t deserve to live in a peaceful state; Israel has lost its legitimacy and will never have peace.
If you kill my son I will hunt you down and kill you and your family and if I don’t succeed my brothers will take over the task; as would I to avenge the murder of one of their sons. This is how the hatred on both sides is sustained and perpetuated and it’s the reason there can never be peace. And who started it all? The history books show quite clearly who the original aggressors were, I’ll leave it up to you to go and read them.

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By dailyplanet, June 11, 2011 at 1:47 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I recommend the author of this piece, abhorrently using the term “ethic
cleansing” in the title, read Anthony Julius’ scholarly book on the history of
anti-Semitism in the Jewish Diaspora. (Trials of the Diaspora: A History of Anti-
Semitism in England). While Mr. Julius focuses on English anti-Semitism, his
work encompasses the board scope of this prejudice’s reverberation on its
world scale.

No nation’s policies and actions are beyond criticism, and Israel is no exception.

HOWEVER, and this is the salient fact that distinguishes Israel from every other
country on the globe:

Israel is the only country whose very right to exist has been challenged.

As Julius so succinctly states:

“Israel is the only state in the world whose legitimacy is widely denied and
whose destruction is publicly advocated and threatened. Israelis are the only
citizens of a state whose indiscriminate murder is widely considered justifiable.”

I would ask Mr. Gross to examine his article as a piece of ammunition not only
for anti-Zionists, but more egregiously as justification for contemporary Jews
who buy into the tropes of anti-Semites.

Gross appears to be among those Jews who “in Israel… see noting of the state-
building pioneer, they see only the predatory land-grabber, and people-
expeller; in the Palestinian, they see nothing of the defeated aggressor, they
only see the victim. Indeed, the Palestinians are mostly represented as
somewhat spectral vessels of pure suffering.” (Julius)

P.S. As myself coming from a family of Ashkenazi Jews, I know full well that the
Sephardim traditionally denigrated their Eastern European brethren. The
Sephardic Jews always conceived of themselves as the “aristocratic” branch on
the tree of Judaism and the shtetel Jews of the east as a group of primitive
“schnorers.”

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Angel Gabriel's avatar

By Angel Gabriel, June 11, 2011 at 1:35 pm Link to this comment

“Why on earth do you persist?” Howard, I think I figured out the answer to my last
question to you… You persist because you are paid to persist!  Your historical
“lines” are the stock standard method of every other paid Israeli Zionist Ministry of
Information troll that bounce between US Progressive sites altering historical facts
to fit your agenda of misinformation. It might work on the Judeo Christian
“believers”, but it just doesn’t cut it here or on Huff Post - these aren’t “soft sites”!
I suggest you bounce over to Huff Post and have a chat with Brewerstroupe who is
the local historian in non-ficticious middle eastern history. Tell him Angel Gabriel
says hi!
Gota admit though, you slipped past my radar for a few minutes! As I said before,
good luck with your rhetoric, but it ain’t workin any longer!

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EmileZ's avatar

By EmileZ, June 11, 2011 at 11:34 am Link to this comment

Thanks to the author and to truthdig for this article together with the “Three Myths” video. I would love to see more on this topic and similar postings (entries?) from other areas of the world as well.

Well done.

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By stan van houcke, June 11, 2011 at 11:10 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

thank you larry for your wisdom and humanity, and perhaps above all your
integrity.

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By Inherit The Wind, June 11, 2011 at 10:33 am Link to this comment

I’m all for Israel compromising with the Palestinians.
But whose “compromise”?
Hamas and Hezbollah who won’t be satisfied until Israel is another Islamic state and all the Jews are driven out? I don’t think so!

Or the Ultra-Orthodox who want “Greater Judea” and all the Muslims driven out of the West Bank and Jerusalem and then will dynamite the Dome of the Rock? I don’t think so either!

Or will it be the nit-wit idea constantly floated here that Israel should open its borders to citizenship to every Tom, Dick and Hamid who claims that his great-uncle’s wife’s 17th cousin once owned some land there in the 17th century and that means HE is entitled to citizenship because of it?  I don’t think so!

If compromise means that Israel and the Palestinians can AGREE on a border and a way to approach and share East Jerusalem so that they all stop killing each other, then I am in favor of it!

But this last is what cannot be achieved and I blame BOTH sides for it.  BOTH sides are too damned stubborn and stupid to reach an equitable deal.

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By pksf, June 11, 2011 at 9:10 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Great article and interesting perspective. I find it ironic that people make accusations or inferences of antisemitism. The author is Jewish and probably still has Israeli citizenship. He provided a very personal account and is critical of what he experienced in Israel. This entire website is devoted to healthy critical analysis of the world around us, something sorely lacking these days. Until the Israeli government and its supporters can take a hard look at itself and be honest about their situation, there will continue to be turmoil. Perhaps the rise of nonviolent protest in the West Bank will provide that mirror of who and what they are.

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By PatrickHenry, June 11, 2011 at 8:01 am Link to this comment

Inherit,

As usual, one of these articles brings out all the Israel-haters and all the anti-Semites.

Don’t forget the Israel apoligists and the paid JIDF hasbarats whose mission is to portray Israel in a favorable light despite the social injustices that nation perpetrates upon its neighbors and own minorities.

Israel didn’t exist before 1948 and hard evidence of the nation of Israel 2000 years before that is dubious at best.  The Palestinians are the indigenous people of that area no matter how the hasbarats spin it.

As for the 1967 war and who started it, the preemptive attack on Egyptian forces in the Sinai hardly constitutes defence, more like paranoia and belligerant attack.

Just a simple reading of the wikipedia concerning the six day war contains evidence of Israeli paranoia all over it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

It is evident that all sides of the conflict were at fault, to claim Israel was the victim is pure BS.  They threw the first stone as they usually do.

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By christian96, June 11, 2011 at 5:31 am Link to this comment

Too wordy.  Mr. Gross needs to learn to write more
succinctly.

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By Howard, June 11, 2011 at 5:28 am Link to this comment

Palestine was a Roman term applied to the area in B.C. after they conquered the state of Israel which was where the Jewish people lived at that time.
Between 1917 and 1947, thousands more of Jews throughout the world left their homes and moved to Palestine because they heard that a future national home for the Jewish people was being established there. The “Mandate for Palestine,” an historic League of Nations document, laid down the Jewish legal right to settle anywhere in western Palestine, between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, an entitlement unaltered in international law. Fifty-one member countries - the entire League of Nations - unanimously declared on July 24, 1922: “Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.”
  At the very same time political rights to self-determination as a policy for Arabs were guaranteed by the same League of Nations in four other mandates - in Lebanon and Syria (the French Mandate), Iraq, and later Trans-Jordan [the British Mandate]. Any attempt to negate the Jewish people’s right to Palestine - the Land of Israel - and to deny them access and control in the area designated for the Jewish people by the League of Nations would negate the right of Syria, Jordan, and Iraq to exit in its modern titles.
  And to stamp more legalese, the ‘48 decision to make the territory into two states one for the Jewish people and one for the local arabs. IT was Rejected by the arab countries and 4 of them invaded the Jewish state.  The local arabs at that time did not use the term ’ palestinian’ to label themselves.  They are/were mainly of egyptian and syrian stock.
  They did not ask the 4 arab countries to invade the Israeli area.  They go a raw deal from these neihboring countries, which treat them like 4th class citizens to this very day.  These countries could have given them the west bank area and half of Jerusalem either before declaring war against Israel or even after until ‘67, when they tried again and lost the territories.  And they still refuse to make peace with Israel.

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By Angel Gabriel, June 11, 2011 at 4:07 am Link to this comment

Holy Jebus Howard, Do you take us for such complete idiots as to listen to your
rubbish? Of course there was a Palestine you nim rod - Full of Palestinians on
their own land and living off their own land - Then the European Refugees
arrived and tried to Annex more land than was granted in the under the table
agreement with the US & Britain, and exert violent control over the locals,
driving them from their homes and off their land. You Askenazi’s weren’t really
into peaceful negotiations, even with your own people the Sephardic’s…
I suggest you go back to class and study up on your history because your’s is
certainly a lot different to what the actual facts on the ground were.
Geez man, back under the bridge with you!  You haven’t answered my question
as to how much you get paid for your lessons in Hasbra 101?
I suppose it is true that if you repeat a lie long enough it becomes truth for
you. You get absolutely no-where with this crap-ola mate! Other than being an
insult and to further degrade your standing! Why on earth do you persist?

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By Howard, June 11, 2011 at 3:22 am Link to this comment

In June 1967, there was no state of Palestine. It didn’t exist and never had. Its creation, proposed by the UN in 1947, was rejected by the Arab world because it also meant the establishment of a Jewish state alongside. The West Bank and eastern Jerusalem were in Jordanian hands. Violating solemn agreements, Jordan denied Jews access to their holiest places in eastern Jerusalem and destroyed many of those sites.
  The Arab world could have created a Palestinian state in the West Bank, eastern Jerusalem, and Gaza, but they didn’t. There wasn’t even discussion about it. In the weeks leading up to the Six-Day War, Egyptian and Syrian leaders repeatedly declared that war was coming and their objective was to wipe Israel off the map. Just 22 years after the Holocaust, another enemy spoke about the extermination of Jews.
  Egypt’s President Nasser demanded that UN peacekeeping forces in the area, in place for the previous decade to prevent conflict, be removed. Shamefully, the UN complied. Egypt blocked Israeli shipping lanes in the Red Sea. The U.S. spoke about joining with other countries to break the blockade, but did not act.
  After winning the war of self-defense, Israel hoped that its newly-acquired territories would be the basis of a land-for-peace accord. Feelers were sent out. The formal response came on September 1, 1967, when the Arab Summit Conference declared in Khartoum: “No peace, no recognition, no negotiations” with Israel. The 1967 war was an act of self-defense in the face of blood-curdling threats to vanquish the Jewish state. All wars have consequences, but the Arab aggressors have failed to take responsibility for the actions they instigated.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-harris/why-history-matters-the-1_b_873387.html

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By tedmurphy41, June 11, 2011 at 2:45 am Link to this comment

It really is amazing that a people, who were discriminated against and eventually murdered by Nazi thugs, should behave in a similar fashion to another defenceless people who never did them any harm.
It could have been so different if the plan of flooding this part of the Middle East with jewish refugees had been properly thought through with due consideration given to the needs and sensitivities of the original inhabitants.
This fiasco could never have happened without the collusion of the Western Powers of the time, and we are now all living with the consequences, more so the Palestinian people, some of whom have lost everything except their dignity and not forgetting those who have lost their lives challenging the unfairness of it all.

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By Angel Gabriel, June 10, 2011 at 10:43 pm Link to this comment

Howard, do you get paid by the word, or just on submissions?? I guess it is a
difficult job spreading the same old sad song as you do! Good luck with your
pursuits cuz they just don’t fly very well here! Maybe a less seasoned site will cut
you some slack eh?

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By archivesDave, June 10, 2011 at 9:02 pm Link to this comment

“TRUTH… What is Truth?”
                  Pontius Pilate

“History is mostly guessing…
The rest is prejudice”
                  Will Durant

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By Howard, June 10, 2011 at 8:30 pm Link to this comment

6 Cheers for Israel.  What a democracy. Inane nonsense it is a racist state.  Arab minority exists within Israel and are lawmakers, physicians, nurses, teachers, etc.  In stark contrast no Jews are allowed in their neighoring arab countries.  Give me a break on that canard of Israel a racist state.
    Little, tiny Israel.  Surrounded by 22 arab states who have yet to make a solid peace with israel.
4 of those Arab states attacked Israel in ‘48.  again in ‘67. and again in ‘73.  Except for egypt, no other states that invaded and tried to extirminate Israel, have yet to make a peace.
  And for 19 years after ‘48, Jordan held the west bank area.  where was the hue and cry to have them give the land to the pal’s-during All That time ??
  There is no question in the Israeli minds that there should be 2 states.  The question is do the pal’s want Israel to exist?

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By Tom Edgar, June 10, 2011 at 6:35 pm Link to this comment

Inherit the wind, or more truthfully A lot of wind.
What a Schmuck.

I’m sure my Jewish Grandmother would agree with me.
Th world would be better off with more Jews and no Israeli Fascists.

Always ignored is the fact that Israel exists only because of the machinations of France, Britain, and America in stealing a land from those who had occupied it for thousands of years, with the three main religious bodies coexisting COMPARATIVELY peacefully. On stealing this land they then gave it to the followers of one particular religion then allowed the leaders of those people to drive the non Jewish inhabitants from their own country.

Since that day the Israel nation has pursued policies identical to Nazi Germany’s minus the gas chambers. Persecution of non Aryans, Assassinations, illegally occupying other countries territory, attacking ships and land even of close friends and allies, kidnapping, torturing, and imprisonment without trial.  Beginning to wonder if I am referring to the U S A or Israel, not a lot of difference really. Without the U S A Israel would be a different place. Without Israel the U S A wouldn’t be occupied quite so much in the Middle East.

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By Susan McLoughlin, June 10, 2011 at 5:18 pm Link to this comment

Why is it that anyone who voices the slightest criticism of Isreal is subject to the kind of tirade published here by inheritthewind who says,“What’s next? Hitler didn’t “finish the job”?  I guess there wouldn’t be an Israel “problem” if there weren’t any of us pesky, miserable, useless Jews in the world.”

Come on! Do you have any idea how tired and old this is! Nothing will ever change in that area of the world as long as people spew this kind of drivel. The world needs far better than this if we are to survive!

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By Michael Steinberg, June 10, 2011 at 5:17 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

By your method of analysis and high ethical considerations, Mexicans should be allowed free entry into the Western United States, for it was their territory, won by “virtue” of bloody war. The right of return is implicit in your meanderings, as is the destruction of Israel as a Jewish state. Is it clear the Arab countries cultures are more virtuous? That the lands they have created have yielded honor killings, inter-tribal warfare, corrupt institutions, poverty,and religious intolerance is the subject of your blind eye, and a moot point, in your Ivory Tower obliviousness.Is Sharia in present day Israel your final hope/ Clearly, Jews have no place in the rendering of territorial and social justice, as you would have it.

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By Angel Gabriel, June 10, 2011 at 5:15 pm Link to this comment

Inherit the Wind -
You can make up shit all you want to “justify” the massing of forces on Israel’s
border, and make up all the shit you want to “prove” Israel was criminal in
attacking and not letting the 3 nations invade, but the only ones you’ll convince
are those who ALREADY believe Israel should have been destroyed in 1948.

What’s next? Hitler didn’t “finish the job”?  I guess there wouldn’t be an Israel
“problem” if there weren’t any of us pesky, miserable, useless Jews in the
world.

It seems to me that the ideology games have gone far enough! This entire
“grand saga” has gone far enough! Living in this world requires compromise in
order to get along with your neighbors. When will Israel come to a compromise
with it’s neighbor’s? and if your answer is never, then that really say’s it all.
Pull your head out of your non-compromising ideology filled ass and take a tip
-” You catch more Bears with Honey than with a big stick”. It is no news to
anyone with an IQ above 100 to see what Israel’s game is - expansion and forceful racial
segregation in order to create an exclusively Jewish sand box that encompasses
vast lands that don’t belong to you and the rest of your breed.
The actions of just a few of the UN countries to grant you a homeland (never
ratified by the full Council) on which you have over-exploited is all the proof we
anti-semites (as you brand anyone in disagreement with your Ideological
pursuits of Zionist rhetoric), have provided the TRUTH beyond reproach that your
people have long outworn their neighborly welcome. You just can’t hide behind
the “we poor Jew’s” line any longer and it’s coming right back on you to bite you
in the butt - sorry, but that’s just the way it is in the world these days, so get
used to it and get back in line with the rest of us trying to survive in this completely
screwed up world. You are NOT exclusive - get over it and learn to
get along or you’re going to be up to your ears in Alligators from now on! Move
your butts back to the ‘67 line and negotiate with the people’s you have
systematically displaced then move forward with peace. Your “free lunch” ticket was punched a long time ago and it’s time you started to earn your way back into world society instead of shoot and bomb your way back. Good luck getting that through your extremely THICK skull!

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By mb2821, June 10, 2011 at 4:51 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

‘Which brings me to the crux of the issue, the Palestinian Problem’—reminds of the book by gunnar myrdal that discussed the “negro problem”—Mr. Myrdal came to the apt conclusion that there was never a negro problem, but a ‘white problem’—-I’d say that applies in this situation too. It’s more about colonialism, imperialism and oppression, which is always more a moratorium on the oppressors than it is on the oppressed.

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By Jack, June 10, 2011 at 4:02 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

From my study of the history, the issues, and my visit to Israel and the Occupied West
Bank, I think this is the most accurate and honest article I have read. It does indeed
seem that 1967 was the turning point when the wheels came off the wagon.Israel has
moved from an democratic state full of idealists, with a number of Machiavellan types
interspersed, to a ultra right wing apartheid state with a strong national death wish.

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By Inherit The Wind, June 10, 2011 at 2:08 pm Link to this comment

DB:
You can bend the story any way you want, but you can’t change the fact that Nasser was massing forces on Israel’s border and THAT is by anyone’s definition, a threat.  Meanwhile Syria and Jordan were doing the same.

So when 3 nations are massing armies at your border a SANE person would assume they intend to invade, which, of course, they did.  An invasion like that needs air support—Hitler pioneered that with Blitzkrieg and EVERY war since has been fought with air power.

So….Forces massing for invasion to destroy your nation and slaughter your people. Air Force needed to make invasion work.  KNOCK OUT AIR FORCE BEFORE THEY CAN TAKE OFF!

It’s not aggression except in the silly mind of someone who would argue that taking a gun out of someone’s hand BEFORE they fire at you is also “aggression”.

It was simply good, solid defense strategy.  Destroy the key support of the invasion force, then destroy the invasion force.

Basic Sun-Tzu: pick the battle field.  Don’t let the enemy pick it.

By YOUR continued theory and repeated posts, Israel’s response to the massing of force should have been the equivalent of every Israeli slitting their own throats, a la Masada.  Yeah. The ONLY “moral” response to someone seeking your destruction is…to LET them destroy you.

On what planet?

You can make up shit all you want to “justify” the massing of forces on Israel’s border, and make up all the shit you want to “prove” Israel was criminal in attacking and not letting the 3 nations invade, but the only ones you’ll convince are those who ALREADY believe Israel should have been destroyed in 1948.

What’s next? Hitler didn’t “finish the job”?  I guess there wouldn’t be an Israel “problem” if there weren’t any of us pesky, miserable, useless Jews in the world.

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By DavidByron, June 10, 2011 at 10:33 am Link to this comment

Wow.  Just because Israel always attacks its neighbours shouldn’t mean they can’t blame anyone else for the wars! 

“But the new urban legend that the ‘67 wasn’t instigated by Egypt and Syria boggles the mind.”

Yeah I mean bombing Egypt’s airforce while it was on the ground obviously can’t count as a hostile act.

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By Inherit The Wind, June 10, 2011 at 7:06 am Link to this comment

I find your comment to be really funny, but maybe its just me. You talk about genocide. Are you kidding? in the last 100 years less Palestinians were killed by israel, than by Arabs\other Palestinians (black September, Lebanon civil war, Palestinian civil war, the Kuwaiti ethnic cleansing, etc). the number of all Palestinians, militants and civilians alike, who died in the 100 years of conflict by Israel or Jews, is less than 20,000 (the US killed more twice then that in one year in Iraq)  To talk about genocide is more than laughable on the one hand, on the other hand, this accusation is some-what genocidal itself, when you say every person, including children, in Israel, are guilty of genocide (and all of us know what people who are guilty of genocide deserve) is itself genocidal. I suggest to you to look at the mirror.
******

How DARE you!
How dare you use facts and figures to deny “the Truth”!

As usual, one of these articles brings out all the Israel-haters and all the anti-Semites.

The article itself is very thoughtful and, while having several debatable points, also DOES show some issues that may easily be confirmed.

I certainly don’t doubt that the ultra-Orthodox Ashkenazim are racist as hell. The recent riots protesting that they should have the RIGHT to enforce segregation between Ashkenazim and Sephardic Orthodox is only a couple of months ago.

But did more liberal Ashkanazi Jews employ Sephardic Jews and refer to them as “Schwartzeh” (Black Ones”)? Is that isolated or typical?

But the new urban legend that the ‘67 wasn’t instigated by Egypt and Syria boggles the mind.  Both nations, and Jordan, massed tens of thousands of troops on Israel’s border.  I’m old enough to remember that.  Was Nasser “goaded” into it? He CHOSE to mobilize at Israel’s border. So did Syria and Jordan.

In fact, had Jordan NOT attacked Israel a day after the war began with Egypt and Syria, the West Bank and East Jerusalem would STILL be part of Jordan.  It may have simply been King Hussein’s worst mistake.  He actually had a day to contemplate NOT joining Egypt and Syria in the War.

Israel is not all innocence. There is much wrong there, desperately wrong as they are led by their own version of bat-shit crazy “tea party” maniacs.  But, as in all human endeavors BOTH sides have much to answer for.  So far, nobody’s asked that the Arab states have to answer for their actions.

Except, of course, their own citizens, whom they are slaughtering in Syria and Libya.

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By just israeli, June 9, 2011 at 1:36 pm Link to this comment

to colindale:
the problem is exactly what you’re proud of – you did only 30 minutes of “research”.
the indigenous people of the land of Israel are in fact the Canaanites. Of course, according to the Jewish fairy-tell story called “the bible”, the people of Israel fought and destroyed the Canaanites. But, in reality, according to the vast majority of archeologists,  what is written in the bible is not-true, and in fact the people of Israel are themselves Canaanites which rebelled against their ruling elites and then invent their own “national history” (the bible).
so, as you can see (and as you can hear from almost any archeologist studying the subject), the people of Israel ARE the descents of the indigenous people of that land.

now comes up the question - Are modern Jews really direct-descents of the people of Israel? in the past, it would be an hard question to answer (it’s also not that relevant), today, it’s easy to answer - there is a large number of genetic studies on the subject*, and indeed they found that the vast majority of Jews are descents to the same Levantine-originated people.

So, when talking about indigenous peoples, surly the people whom ancestral fathers lived and control the land for all of ancient history, and continue to live there in small numbers for all of history - are most suitable for this definition. the people who immigrate to the land in the last centuries have rights of course, but they are not the indigenous people . is just like the indigenous people of the land which is now New-York are the Indians, and not the immigrants who rule it for that last centuries.

As for the article –
As a Sephardic Jew in Israel, and as an atheist, I don’t feel discriminated against. Not for religious reasons nor for my background. I think that this observation of the write are a part of his negative view of almost everything in Israel. The city is developed? They don’t fit the “landscape”. Really? What kind of landscape is that? A landscape that need all what’s build upon it to be kind of primitive mud houses? The writer have some-what of a romantic view about Arabs and the Middle East, and its making him to turn against Israel. But this romantic view is really baseless if the writer would really like to see architecture that doesn’t fit the landscape, he should go to the Arab city of Dubai. my guess is that he will not say the same things there.

As for DavidByron
I find your comment to be really funny, but maybe its just me. You talk about genocide. Are you kidding? in the last 100 years less Palestinians were killed by israel, than by Arabs\other Palestinians (black September, Lebanon civil war, Palestinian civil war, the Kuwaiti ethnic cleansing, etc). the number of all Palestinians, militants and civilians alike, who died in the 100 years of conflict by Israel or Jews, is less than 20,000 (the US killed more twice then that in one year in Iraq)  To talk about genocide is more than laughable on the one hand, on the other hand, this accusation is some-what genocidal itself, when you say every person, including children, in Israel, are guilty of genocide (and all of us know what people who are guilty of genocide deserve) is itself genocidal. I suggest to you to look at the mirror.

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By colindale, June 9, 2011 at 1:08 pm Link to this comment

Very succinctly put, Gerard. Thank you for articulating
what so many of us recognize as the status quo in the
so-called ‘democratic’ states of today.

Behaviour epitomized by the atrocious conduct of the
self-enriching investment banks, and various powerful
lobbies, operating with complete impunity from the
executive, to the detriment of the people.

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By MeHere, June 9, 2011 at 1:04 pm Link to this comment

L. Gross says:

“Israel is the occupying power, in clear contravention of international law and
United Nations resolutions, and the moral consequences are as clear as they were
predictable in 1967. Israel has squandered its moral integrity and corrupted the
lives of generations of young folk drafted into an army of occupation.”

His statement leaves no doubt about his views on Israel as the transgressor in this conflict.  His references to Zionist idealism and nationalistic fervor describe the way the Zionists saw themselves, but he debunks their claims.

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By colindale, london, June 9, 2011 at 1:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Very succinctly put, Gerard. Thank you for articulating what so many of us recognize as the status quo in the so-called ‘democratic’ states of today.

Behaviour epitomized by the atrocious conduct of the self-enriching investment banks, and various powerful lobbies, operating with complete impunity from the executive, to the detriment of the people.

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By rollzone, June 9, 2011 at 12:09 pm Link to this comment

hello. perspectives of reality are always more
interesting than fluff. the arguments never get
beyond the differences between government and
religion. a government is established to rule over
peoples. a religion is a community of peoples without
government authority. once a government rules a
people, all religions either join and support their
government, (and enjoy the fruits), or oppose the
governing bodies, and suffer consequences. law gets
the authority from government. religion has no
authority. religion is powerful, but controlling the
government is the real power. politicians often ride
the wave into office, only to exercise authority for
profit. the true separation of church and state is
between compulsion and choice. you are free to choose
or not to practice a religion, but it is compulsory
you obey the law. in Israel, pretending government
over people is in some way dictated by religion, is
blasphemy: as if in some mysterious way, the will of
God is ruling the peoples of Israel. government rules
Israel. peoples’ morality should influence choosing
benevolent leaders, but leaders must enforce laws.
laws should be influenced by morality, but laws must
be enforced; without religious prejudice. we are not
in Heaven. man writes laws. people together change
laws. religion influences changes in the laws man
writes. religion does not rule people. government
rules people. it is not right to break the law.
change the law to rule more people. eliminating
people through ethnic cleansing, is not an acceptable
method to have a majority rule. ideally majority
peoples would have their own rules, by consent.
perhaps one day the internet will provide. religion
is not the government of Israel, and Israel is not
governed by religion.

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By expat, June 9, 2011 at 11:44 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

israel has lost all legitimacy,

it is nothing but a fascist racist state bent on ethnic cleansing and who is practicing it on a daily basis and which has managed to subvert the west’s political establishments, its media, its entertainment industry and let’s not forget banking.

I can’t wait till it starts another unprovoked act of aggression and, in return, gets vaporized into oblivion once and for all (2 small nukes are sufficient, it’s a small occupied country) by someone who covertly did have nukes at the ready.

Hey, the bible says so…

you reap what you sow,
an eye for an eye,
he who lives by the sword perishes by the sword,
etc…

They had their chance to make peace, but no, they always wanted more….  the greater israel, more of other people’s land, other people’s wealth.  Typical.

Well now let us hope they will lose it all soon and allow the world to become peaceful and prosperous again.

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By Ralph Kramden, June 9, 2011 at 11:00 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Fine article. In regards to “a land without people…,” I also find the argument that because Jews lived in Palestine 3,000 years ago, they have a right to return and take the land. Yet, they deny the Palestinians the right to return. Moreover, if 3,000 years ago is a valid argument, then let us return the land we stole from the Cheyenne, the Apaches, the Sioux, Mexico: that only happened 200 years ago. It is all about Palestinians being forced to pay for an European crime. By the way, the Palestinians never threw the Jews out and never participated in the Holocaust.

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By gerard, June 9, 2011 at 10:20 am Link to this comment

Both Israel and the United States claim to be democracies.  Both are autocratic—that is, the power at the top rules the majority using a variety of techniques, including military power, disinformation, discrimination and preachments of superiority. Both help each other, using threats to maintain a united front against tolerance, moderation and class equality and to continue oppression of others.

In both states, the power of the average person has been taken away, partly because the majority permitted it, either by negligence or by stupidity.
In both cases, if the majority want to change that situation, they can—nonviolently, if they understand the simple truth that violence leads only to more violence.

Obvious—but difficult. Fear and ignorance hold the majority in silent acquiescence, and hypocrisy weakens them with shame and self-hatred.

The present situation is untenable.  Ultimately injustice and violence cannot be sustained. Acting requires faith, planning, cooperation, wisdom.  Waiting requires evasion and endurance of remorse.

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By son of israel, June 9, 2011 at 9:29 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

to colindale:
the problem is just that: you did only 30 minutes of “research”. the indigenous people of the land of Israel are the Canaanites. Of-course, according to the Jewish fairy-tell story called “the bible”, the people of Israel fought and destroyed the Canaanites. but, in reality, according to the vast majority of archeologists what is written in the bible is not-true, and in fact the people of Israel are themselves Canaanites, which rebelled against their ruling elites and then invent their own “national history” (the bible).
so, as you can see (and as you can hear for almost any archeologist studying the subject), the people of Israel ARE the descents of the indigenous people of that land.
now, there is the question - are modern Jews really direct descents of the people of Israel? in the past, it would be an hard question to answer (it’s also not that relevant), today, it’s easy to answer - there is a large number of genetic studies on the subject*, and indeed they found that the vast majority of Jews are descent to the people of Israel.
so, when talking about indigenous peoples, surly the people who their ancestral fathers lived and control the land for all of ancient history, and continue to live there in small numbers for all of history - are most suitable for this definition.  the people who immigrate to there in the last centuries have rights of course, but they are not the indigenous people . is just like the indigenous people of the land which is now New-York are the Indians, and not the immigrants that rule it for that last centuries.
As for the article –
As a Sephardic Jew in Israel, and as an atheist, I don’t feel discriminated against. Not for religious reasons nor for my background. I think that this observation of the write are a part of his negative view of almost everything in Israel. The city is developed? They don’t fit the “landscape”. Really? What kind of landscape is that? A landscape that need all what’s build upon it to be kind of primitive mad houses? The writer has some romantic view about Arabs and the middle east, and its making him to turn against Israel. if the writer would really like to see architecture that doesn’t fit the landscape, he should go to the Arab city of Dubai. my guess is that he will not say the same things there.
*like: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/10/science/10jews.html

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By DavidByron, June 9, 2011 at 8:57 am Link to this comment

Additional: the title is another example of genocide justification.  Israel was never anything ideal unless that idealism was itself genocide.  The entire purpose was to wipe out the indigenous population.  There was no corrupting process here - that was the initial state.  To deny this is to engage in holocaust denialism.

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