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Posted on Jun 15, 2010
oil spill
AP / Eric Gay

The Transocean Deepwater Discoverer drilling rig, center, and support vessels operate over the site of the Deepwater Horizon oil spill on Sunday.

By Robert Scheer

What’s with the president’s war analogy on the oil spill? It’s as if some alien force, “The Invasion of the Slippery Sludge,” suddenly attacked us. “Abroad, our brave men and women in uniform are taking the fight to al-Qaida,” President Barack Obama said Tuesday in his White House speech, “and tonight, I’ve returned from a trip to the Gulf Coast to speak with you about the battle we’re waging against an oil spill that is assaulting our shores and our citizens.”

What nonsense. The oil was minding its own business until some multinational corporations, enabled by a dysfunctional government regulatory regime, decided to wage war on the ecological balance of the oceans by employing technology that they were not prepared to control. Cleaning up the oil spill mess we made by raping the environment to satiate our consumer gluttony is not a glorious battle against evil but rather obligatory penance for the profound error of our ways.

You wound Mother Nature by punching a hole deep in her pristine ocean where you have no business going and when she bleeds uncontrollably you dare blame her for the assault? This from a president who shortly before this disaster had given the oil companies permission to pillage in the deep seas at will. At least now he admits to having been extremely naive in his belief that they knew what they were doing:

“A few months ago, I approved a proposal to consider new, limited offshore drilling under the assurance that it would be absolutely safe—that the proper technology would be in place and the necessary precautions would be taken. That obviously was not the case on the Deepwater Horizon rig, and I want to know why.”

He already knows why! It’s the same ideological obsession that led to the deregulation of the banking industry based on the assumption that the unfettered pursuit of multinational corporation profits would somehow serve the public good. In every area of federal governance the story is the same; the mammoth corporations, through their lobbyists and campaign contributions, end up controlling the government agencies ostensibly regulating the activities of the military/industrial, health, financial and communications complexes. Why be surprised that the oil conglomerates are also in bed with their pretend Washington regulators? 

Obviously Obama cannot be blamed for the bipartisan endorsement of the Reagan Revolution’s siren song, a call to make the world safe for multinational corporations. The radical anti-regulation campaign—endorsed by Bill Clinton as well as the father-and-son Bush team—corrupted rather than improved the efficiency of the entire private sector, and what happened with the oil industry was the rule and not the exception. 

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In explaining the failure of the Minerals Management Service, responsible for regulating the oil drillers, Obama stated: “Over the last decade, this agency has become emblematic of a failed philosophy that views all regulation with hostility—a philosophy that says corporations should be allowed to play by their own rules and police themselves. At this agency, industry insiders were put in charge of industry oversight. Oil companies showered regulators with gifts and favors, and were essentially allowed to conduct their own safety inspections and write their own regulations.”

That damning indictment of the corporate corruption of our political process should stand as a cautionary tale to those like the majority in those red states now suffering so because of the offshore drilling of which their voters previously approved. Hopefully they, and the president who catered to such impulses, will take away from this very costly mess a justifiable skepticism about the risk assessments of plunderers who treat natural treasures as nothing more than potential profit centers. 

The public goes along because, as with the jobs created by military spending and the false wealth of financial bubbles, it is blinded by lavishly funded corporate PR to the true costs of such reckless corporate behavior. It is understandable that folks struggling to get by would fall for that line, but it is inexcusable when the political elite in Washington that know better goes along with such chicanery. 

The war that needs to be fought and won is against corporate dominance of every important aspect of our political culture. I hope this disaster, its impact revised upward by the government on Tuesday to represent an Exxon Valdez-size spill of oil into the Gulf every four days, will facilitate that. The difference between the new estimate, 60,000 barrels of oil a day, and BP’s original claim of 5,000 barrels a day is just another example of the systemic corporate deceit that has characterized this immense catastrophe. This is the wakeup call to fight corporate arrogance that we, and our president, desperately needed. 

Click here to check out Robert Scheer’s book,
“The Great American Stickup: How Reagan Republicans and Clinton Democrats Enriched Wall Street While Mugging Main Street.”


Keep up with Robert Scheer’s latest columns, interviews, tour dates and more at www.truthdig.com/robert_scheer.



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By archivesDave, June 27, 2010 at 3:00 pm Link to this comment

Ofersince:
According to Lindsay Williams’ retired Atlantic Richfield source, no one who did the clean up at Alaskan Valdez lived past the age of 57 and theyre now all deceased.

Report this

By archivesDave, June 27, 2010 at 2:48 pm Link to this comment

Ofersince:
Let me know if u ever locate any site for that video please.
Some other little important factoids the press refuses to go anywhere near:
Evidently the moving van companies in the lower half of Florida and some parts around Tampa will not even taking names for reservations for anyone wanting to leave right now.  Perhaps u or someone else could check this out and verify it or not.

Also, the pressure coming out is at least 20,000 lbs
and as high as 70,000 lbs.

Report this

By ofersince72, June 27, 2010 at 12:47 pm Link to this comment

I guess these are enough puzzelments for everyone to
handle on a Sunday afternoon, although, there are many,
many more.

  By the way, I just found out that all those that
worked the Exxon Valdez Oil Spill (that one was a spill)
are mostly dead now…I believe those cleaning up in the
Gulf should be made aware of this, don’t you?

Report this

By ofersince72, June 27, 2010 at 12:39 pm Link to this comment

Go figure this too that is getting little to no
media coverage, not even right here locally.

  It has reached 100F almost everyday for the last
two weeks here, that is very abnormal ,especially in
June.
  To make it even more puzzeling, my ex calls up time &
weather every day,  they report the temperture at 103F,
then one hour later report it at 94F,
Go figure that???

Report this

By ofersince72, June 27, 2010 at 12:05 pm Link to this comment

The two men that died in the Gulf clean-up last week,
the one they told us was a charter boat captain who was
leased for the clean-up and shot himself,,

I never did hear who the second victim was last week
and how he died, did anyone else catch that?

Report this

By ofersince72, June 27, 2010 at 10:23 am Link to this comment

The May 29th video on youtube brings a couple more
questions up.

The gusher on that video is shooting straight up…
Where is it coming from???
Couldn’t be from the top of the BOP, because on May 29th
the rizor wasn’t cut and and shooting out of cracks in
the rizor,,,,,the end of the rizor was laying horizonally
on the ocean floor, shooting oil out horizonally,
so where is this big gusher coming from that is shooting
straight up vertically that they are showing on the
May 29 video on youtube?

Report this

By ofersince72, June 27, 2010 at 9:40 am Link to this comment

There is also the possibility Dave, that as soon
as I found this video,  I posted it to be viewed on
two major websites, it may have been removed.

  I am sure that the gov and BP are monitoring everything
that has to do with this.

Report this

By ofersince72, June 27, 2010 at 9:31 am Link to this comment

Dave , I am next to computer illiterate or I would
have posted the link…

It should be under
  May 29 oil gushing from Gulf,

I hope you find it, the pressure shoots the oil up
what I estimate to be at least ten feet in a straight
coulumn, through the water.

Report this

By archivesDave, June 27, 2010 at 9:13 am Link to this comment

Ofersince:
I looked for your link but didn’t
see it.

Report this

By ofersince72, June 27, 2010 at 9:00 am Link to this comment

I finally found a video on youtube that shows a little
of what I reported that I saw Fri and Sat of Memorial
Day. I reported that I saw a ROV camera come from the
ocean floor to the surface, which BP also claims.
  I then reported that about an hour after this the
BP cams showed a gusher coming from the ocean floor that
in no way could the volume of this gusher have passed
throught the crimped rizor.
  Although the youtube video from May 29 is not exactly
what I saw the night of May 28th, the volume of the video
is almost equal,  look at it, and then ask yourself,
could this volume of oil gushing could ever have passed
through the crimped rizor….......
I don’t think so,  no way….and the gusher from May29
was a little larger and viewed right from the ocean floor
with nothing around it or attached to it.
(i am not the only one that viewed this, I have witnesses)

Report this

By archivesDave, June 25, 2010 at 2:19 pm Link to this comment

Lawrence Baker:
KUDOs to you my friend…
Extremely WELL said!

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By BR549, June 25, 2010 at 11:37 am Link to this comment

Sodium Na said:
“I understand the difficulties and frustrations that a citizen faces in the
bureauacracies of government. But I also believe that working within the
system to change the system for the better is possible,if all citizens have
patience,endurance and determination to change the system for the common
good.”

I would agree with you and further state that it would be far easier to change
the whims of the population than it would be to change the rampant
corruption of the legislature. Just listening to all those talking suits on the
news is nauseous; each one trying to reposture themselves to be on the front
of some wave of public perception that will solve some major problem and get
them more votes. I’ve listed many of them here before, but NOTHING is going
to change until they are forced to change. Greed is still too pervasive in our
legislature and until social responsibility and integrity become desirous
attributes and politically en vogue, all the good intentions of the citizenry won’t
solve anything ..... sorry to say. There just isn’t any incentive in being honest or
having any integrity; certainly not in the Congress or the Senate.

In this case here with BP, I don’t care what the law says.If it was written with a
$75,000,000 cap, those that approved that bill should be strung up like
Mussolini.  Where criminal involvement results in the destruction of such a
massive amount of the environment and involves not only the livelihood of
what will become millions of lives both here and abroad, there should be no
ceiling to the amount recoverable from a corporation, the board of directors
and the stockholders of which had hired these people to begin with. If the
Queen of England has to go bankrupt, the old bag should have thought about
that a long time ago. I’ll buy her a paper bag for her lunch. I have no sympathy
for her, the Bushes, the Clintons, the Kennedy’s, or any of that group of social
malcontents that rape the public on the frontside and then skirt as much
responsibility as they can on the backside.

Say, for example, that we had some manufacturer that had a spill along some
river, and before the government HAD to come in, the owner already knew what
his social obligation was and all the cleanup forces necessary where on the
scene within 24 hours, all at company expense. Full transparency, disclosure,
helping to pay for and relocate affected individuals .... and that’s BEFORE the
feds ever got involved. Imagine such a scenario. If the government was kept
small enough AND the social obligation of corporations was profound enough,
perhaps we wouldn’t need those trillions of dollars of taxes that would
continue to languish in Washington, just waiting for someone like Liebermann
to see how he could get his grubby little mitts on it and divert it to Israel so
that we could get into ANOTHER illegal war against ANOTHER enemy of our
own making. We send our money to Washington only to pay for their pet
projects and it only keeps us further indebted.

Sorry, I digress. My bad.

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By Night-Gaunt, June 25, 2010 at 11:02 am Link to this comment

A low pressure area in the mouth of the Gulf has been detected. If it moves north west they would have to stop all operations leaving the oil to continue to accumulate and spread. They also need to stop the dispersant which is causing its own problems from toxicity to spreading and emulsifying the oil which will make it harder to clean up as it becomes more integrated into the environment.

Report this

By Sodium-Na, June 25, 2010 at 10:47 am Link to this comment

Re: Lawrence Baker,June24 at 10:50 pm.
Re: BR549,June 24 at 8:28 am.
Re: archivesDave,June 24 at 6:51 am.

Lawrence,Br,and archi,

The cotents of your above References are well taken and appreciated. And I can add a few more grievances of my own,from my files. But that would alter the focus on the immediate environmental disaster in the gulf;that begs for an urgent solution.

I believe that the concentration must be,at the moment,on finding a workable solution that will stop the catastrophic oil spill. The sight of the bird that was struggling in the sea of oil would have made the hardest of hearts to empathize with the struggling bird. How could BP as wel as the government be so negligence was(and is)beyond my ability to comprehend.

I understand the difficulties and frustrations that a citizen faces in the bureauacracies of government. But I also believe that working within the system to change the system for the better is possible,if all citizens have patience,endurance and determination to change the system for the common good.

Take for example,the number of posters who have already posted on this thread. That is a total of 293 and counting. Since some posters,like you and me,have more than one post already posted,the total of different posters,therefore,must be less than 293 posters. Just to be close to the real number,let say the total number of posters is only 200,who are really concerned about the environment.

If everyone of the 200 posters sends an email to President Obama suggesting a positive solution,the mathematical probability will become greater for one or possibly more emails that may land on the desk of President Obama to read. After reading,who knows what the President will do!! He may end-up pushing Robert Scheer to help him contact Lawrence Baker or other technically talented posters. No one really knows what will happen until what I have just suggested is truly tested.

That does not,nor should,alter the grievances you and I have against the corruptions that enslave our lives.

The above are just personal thoughts that I felt sharing with you all,and anybody else who cares to listen.

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By Lawrence Baker, June 25, 2010 at 8:50 am Link to this comment

BR549 said: “I don’t know which country Obama is working for, but it isn’t the US of A.”

Obama is the transition president into the Totalitarian New World Order sans Democracy and Independence and like Bush; he is a traitor to us all.

Genocide-Who could be such an unbelievable monster to attack their own people? Take a look at the 9/11 Firefighters for Truth and their mountain of evidence that the World Trade Center attack was an inside job (USA), in particular, the collapse of building # 7.

The 9/11 Truth Commission was nothing more than a cover up of the true perpetrators and the justification for war, resulting in the death of over a million innocent people that continues today.

Obama, like Bush, is a “War President” that gives him unlimited powers. Unlike Bush, Obama claims he is powerless and that BP is in control of the Gulf oil disaster. Obama will not even appoint a “Stop the Oil Flow and Clean Up Task Force” of outside experts to address the issue. Obama contributes to BP with lies, cover up and inaction.

Science coming from the DOE to address the oil issue? Dr. Chu (another oil appointee) said that “things are looking up” and then disappeared months ago!

The true damage to the out of control oil well and the amount of flow are kept secret by BP and Obama.

There is no massive effort to clean up the oil before it reaches shore 48 miles away. There are no plans for a fleet of supertankers to suck up the oil before it makes landfall. The modern specialized oil recovery tankers of nations who are prepared for an oil spill are not allowed to respond.

A billion dollar expenditure for a fleet of foreign oil sucking supertankers to respond compared to the trillion dollars in damage that will be done once the oil hits land is CHEAP in comparison. Where are the US Navy oil Tankers?

There are 30,000 underwater oil wells in the Gulf and not one oil tanker is rigged to respond to an oil spill! How can the other oil companies respond to an oil spill when they have no response plan or equipment?

The 11 workers who were killed, were ordered from BP headquarters to do procedures that they knew were inherently wrong, but after protest followed by company threats, proceeded to get themselves killed. No investigation, no records obtained, crime scene unsecured, no charges, and no arrest. There is plenty of cover up though!

Big Oil (BP) and World Banksters (Goldman Sachs) are on their New World Order agenda and profit and control is all they care about; GENOCIDE is merely doing business for them! The US of A is in receivership along with Europe.

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By BR549, June 25, 2010 at 4:42 am Link to this comment

I have been wondering about the size of the Macondo site, myself and whether
Obama had deterred any outside efforts from helping out because their
continual presence could have eventually helped disclose the size of the field
to other countries, and two, that once other countries (oil companies) got
involved, exactly how would they have been compensated? Would it be, “Thank
you, here’s some free oil?” Perhaps Lawrence Baker could shed some light
there.

If Obama (actually, Obama is just an emasculated mouthpiece) was really
interested in an effective solution, he would have allowed anyone and everyone
to help out. And this bizarre nonsense of not allowing protective berms to be
established by the states would certainly qualify as a reason to reassert
sovereign rights.

Obama is showing his true spots here. He has absolutely no regard for a state’s
governor to actually request assistance. Instead, he has basically just assumed
authority in an area where he has none. And by posturing with the military
(thanks to Bush the Lesser), he is willing to put the lives of innocent civilians at
stake over it as they try to protect their own lands.

I don’t which country Obama is working for, but it isn’t the US of A.

Report this

By archivesDave, June 24, 2010 at 8:47 pm Link to this comment

BR & N-G:
You guys have it pretty well nailed down from my perspective.
It will be most interesting to see just how long they
allow this present ‘crisis’ to continue and if this oil deposit (or extrusion), is linked with much larger (and deeper) flows as some Russian researchers have said. 
PS: enjoy all of this research will u can since I think the days of uncensored/unfiltered internet research and communication are definitely numbered.
And the question is, will it come from the Left or Right, as if it really mattered. And I certainly don’t trust the Libertarians either!

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By BR549, June 24, 2010 at 7:19 pm Link to this comment

NG,
Well stated. That scene in the Matrix series where humans were grown in fields
was a perfect example of the globalists’ view of the rest of humanity. Then too,
was the scene in the first movie, where humans were just used to tap their
energy, and then were expendable or considered dangerous when they became
“unplugged”.

I have to restate that the chaos that the globalists seem to thrive in is the same
dysfunctional environment that twisted people seem to thrive on. This whole
world nightmare we are currently in has all the earmarks of a poorly managed
trailer-trash MacDonalds, where the manager continually blames the
employees for everything that goes wrong and doesn’t have the integrity or the
know-how to facilitate any meaningful organized management of the place.

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By Night-Gaunt, June 24, 2010 at 6:40 pm Link to this comment

You will find that the “globalists” aren’t all in agreement and many of them like empires but ones with flags and home counties where the power resides. As for reducing the population why? It gives them a cheap easily replaceable resource! Even if a billion dies there will still be more poor than the few rich and their enclaves well armed. They know what is coming even as they spend millions to fight and confuse and convince us that GCC is false and a “socialist” conspiracy. When it will work for them. They will use it against us as a shake down, disaster capitalism, shock doctrine operations to make us want to have their kind of theocratic corporate dictatorship to give us rigid social mores and a brutal society. When things get bad people will do things contrary to what they would have done under better conditions. That is a fact that they will exploit because they know what is coming. They welcome it! It will give them the leverage against us so that most will sacrifice a lot of freedoms for a dubious and dangerous stability off a corporate theocracy to guide through the “Tribulations” to come.

I don’t see this disaster doing anything for them much. But you can not be sure what they will do with it.

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By archivesDave, June 24, 2010 at 5:09 pm Link to this comment

N.G.
I tend to agree with you but as per Hegel, the globalists have the matches, fuel, and incendiaries.
Their solution is simple: chaos, confusion, and reduction of the world population.
They have manifested their M O pure and simple for many years and will use any crisis to advance their malicious goals.
“never let a good crisis go to waste”...gee, I wonder
who said that?

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By Night-Gaunt, June 24, 2010 at 4:12 pm Link to this comment

The primary problem is we are addicted to a finite substance that is getting harder to reach, deeper to drill and not easily processed. That and the fact that using hydrocarbons for the passed 300 years (coal, then oil and natural gas [methane] too later) has given us an orgy of growth (economic and population) & waste and pollution and now our climate has been altered by it. So from that stand point the idea of biotic or a-biotic oil is irrelevant to our discussion. We need to be moving as fast and directly as possible to new, cleaner energy sources and cleaning up the earth and essentially changing how we all live. We have set the massive changes going on now but we still remain as if nothing what so ever is altering. That is a willful blindness that can lead to doomsday for many millions of people. We must not let that happen when we can stop it or mitigate it. We need a Manhattan project for the entire world with the input of all its members and we are failing spectacularly at that.

The building burns but those involved in lighting the fires and everyone who will be affected by it in the building are either playing the same games or can’t get to the table to be heard. Not much is being done to put out those fires and they are catching on in more places and those already burning are getting higher.

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By archivesDave, June 24, 2010 at 3:43 pm Link to this comment

Lawrence Baker:
You pretty much have called it just exactly as it is from my perspective.  The only thing I haven’t seen you bring into the discussion is abiotic oil and how that fits into all of this.
It does appear that the MSM and (science?????), has been lying to us once again, (what a surprise..), about just how much oil their is, different types (geee why aren’t they disclosing the separate oil assays..), and just how deep and wide the fields are
amassed.
I, like you, are convinced the Global Elites want either a global depression or hyperinflation or both.

Ordo ab chao,

Oh, and btw, I would do all the research you can on these covert ‘underground’ subjects since I perceive the gov, like China, will begin to filter and censor the internel in a yr or two.

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By Lawrence Baker, June 24, 2010 at 8:50 am Link to this comment

Sodium NA: Thank you for your support; your request is granted.

Sodium said: “I strongly believe (that) Mr. Lawrence Baker should be in the middle of the struggle as to how to stop the catastrophic oil spill in the gulf”.

I am already in the middle of the struggle. Obama and the crime family of Big Oil and World Banksters already have their Totalitarian agenda of the New World Order with American economic and ecological genocide. There are some very evil people in control; our Democracy is gone.

Google (Bing or Yahoo) “stop the Gulf oil flow” or “Gulf oil flow supertanker clean up” or “Stop Gulf oil illegal dispersants” or “Audit the Federal Reserve” or “SEC vs. Goldman” or “Supreme Court and Multinational Corporations” or “advancement in wind energy technology” and you will find that indeed, I am in the middle of the struggle and generally on the front page; albeit a blog on the internet.

Time is a very precious thing in a disaster (oil and financial reform) and we are quickly running out of time. BP and Obama are stalling for time instead of taking positive action, why is that so?

The Europeans, Asians and Russians have respect for Science. In the US, Science and the advancement of Science is treated as a direct threat to Big Oil and World Bankster control.

Renewable energy evolving in a Democracy that outmodes fossil fuel products (global warming) is the greatest threat that Totalitarian Big Oil has.

The Europeans are waking up, somewhat, but Americans are to heavily propagandized and brainwashed and in a state of confusion to rescue their selves from genocide.

Every day is Groundhog Day for Americans and somehow the old will wear on. The reality check is when 10 million Americans run out of extended employment insurance in the next two months.

You see, there is no economic recovery plan; economic recovery in the US is a mathematical impossibility! Remember “Free Trade” and the moving of the US industrial base to China and other foreign countries, our industrial base is gone (except the military industrial complex)?

What to do with all these obese, unemployed American people and their defaulted property (bank owned and bailed out); genocide is their only answer.

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By BR549, June 24, 2010 at 4:28 am Link to this comment

Sodium NA,

Don’t hold your breath. That “canned” response is for the sheeple who actually
think they’ll get a response back. At one point, in dealing with the legislative
email system, when I had responded to THEIR email, I got the same original
one back and never heard from them again. They don’t give a rat’s ass.

When I went to see my congresswoman about an issue that interfaced with
many federal and state agencies, all I got was a yawn and a “Next”. So, when
the Merchant Marine and Fisheries Committee asked me if I could testify before
a congressional subcommittee, I figured, “What better way to get my point
across.”
(Loud buzzer noise inserted here)

They didn’t give a crap either. While all the cameras were focused on center
stage, so to speak, representatives up on the bench were sitting at the bench
ends chewing on their lunch, telling jokes or something humorous, and had no
intention of listening to what the issues were ........ and I was asked to speak; it
wasn’t like I had some burning issue and that I had asked if I could speak.

Flat and simple, I can’t put it any other way, I was so disillusioned by the way
the system worked. It was a goddamned facade and they just don’t give a crap
unless they think they can get some mileage out of it to either get re-elected
or to increase their marketability to bring home more bacon.

They’re all a bunch of whores (well, except for Paul, DeFazio, Fleming, and a
small handful of others).

Like I said, don’t hold your breath. The political system in Washington is
designed around damage control, not meaningful and effective solutions.

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By archivesDave, June 24, 2010 at 2:51 am Link to this comment

Sodium-Na:
Judging from the disarray reportedly occurring in the
White House, I wouldn’t hold my breath for any type of meaningful pro action on your request.
I always knew he was a puppet but now it appears that
a couple of his strings broke and unfortunately got
picked up by an opposing puppeteer.

Report this

By Sodium-Na, June 23, 2010 at 10:25 pm Link to this comment

For Lawrence Baker,

Larence,

I have received the following formal email from the White House,as a response to my letter addressed to President Obama:

Quote
======

Thank You!

Thank you for contacting the White House.

President Obama is committed to creating the most open and accessible administration in American history. That begins with taking comments and questions from you,the public,through our website.

Our office receives tens of thousands of message from Americans each day. We do our best to reply to as many as we can,but please be aware that you may find more information and answers to your questions online.

We encourage you to visit WhiteHouse gov regularly to follow news and updates,and to learn more about President Obama’s agenda for change.

For an easy-to-navigate source of information on Federal government services,please visit: http://www.USA.gov
                          ————————————                                   
Thank you again for your message.

The Office of President Correspodence


Unquote
========

Lawrence,

My only hope that whoever reads my email addressed to President Obama will realize the urgency of the situation and manages,somhow,to call the President’s attention to it. If not,I can live with my own coscience that,at least,I have done everything I knew how to help out with your technichal knowledge and talents.

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By Sodium-Na, June 23, 2010 at 9:33 pm Link to this comment

For Lawrence Baker,

Lawrence,

Because I strongly believe that the catastrophic oil spill in thr gulf is not only the responsibility of PB and President Obama administration,but also the responsibility of every human being who cares to live in an acceptable environment in the Planet Earth,this post is being addressed to you to let you know that I have already sent the following email to President Obama,concerning your impressive technical knowledge about oil spill in the seas:

Qoute
======

Dear President Obama,

This is an attempt from my part to support your effort being invested so far to solve the spilling oil catastrophe in the gulf.

I am very much impressed by the technical knowledge about oil spill of a blogger wh posts on TRUTHDIG WEBSITE,edited by Robert Scheer. And I have felt to pass his screen name to you because I am convinced by reading his technically constructive posts that he should be working with your team or PB’s team for stopping the spill. His screen name is the following:

Lawrence Baker

Perhaps,Mr. Robert Scheer may be in a position to provide you with more information about Lawrence Baker and how to contact him.

I strongly believe(that)Mr.Lawrence Baker should be in the middle of the struggle as to how to stop the catastrophic oil spill in the gulf.

Respectfully Submitted,
(My Real Name),not Sodium-Na.

Unquote
========

Lawrence: I must admit that I was hesitant in writing the above letter to President Obama without consulting you first,but the urgency of the situation had compelled me to send it any way,trusting you would not mind. If you do mind,please forgive my good intent to help out,as promptly as possible.

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By ofersince72, June 23, 2010 at 1:51 pm Link to this comment

Dave, I am starting become a believer in that other
kind of oil, there hasn’t been enough fauna or life
it seems to me to make these oceans of oil.

Night-Gaunt…lot strange events the last 24 hours
down there Huh?  I am starting to believe that the
lightning incident was just a little blowout, and
that the ROV thing they are claiming was the same thing.
If you look, everytime they put the top back on, it
seems tame for about 12 hours, then it starts getting
more and more violent, then all the sudden it is off
and they tell us something or other…..there seems to
be more flame all the time.

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By archivesDave, June 23, 2010 at 12:32 pm Link to this comment

There’s a Bible prophecy in Revelation referring to one third of the ocean turning into the color of blood. Has anyone noticed what color the ocean manifests in those aerial shots?
Let’s all just keep holding our breath that they get
this thing resolved but heaven help us all if they
eventually try to nuke it.

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By Night-Gaunt, June 23, 2010 at 11:35 am Link to this comment

News alert! The containment “cap” has been pushed off of the well head so we are back to square 2. [Square 1 was before they cut the pipe earlier.]

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By archivesDave, June 23, 2010 at 11:04 am Link to this comment

Lawrence Baker:
A big wet thanx from me too Lawrence…U’ve certainly enlightened me.
But I still question the exact amount of pressure.
A so called ‘elitist expert’ referred to by Lindsey Williams was quoted as stating the pressure was at least 40,000 lbs and possibly as high as 100,000.
Hopefully it’s B.S.

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By Lawrence Baker, June 23, 2010 at 9:36 am Link to this comment

Thank you Sodium Nitrate for the compliment! Let me see if I can nape off some of the propaganda and brainwashing on this subject so that we can get a better look at the truth.

Goldman Sachs, BP, Halliburton, Transocean, and the Federal Reserve System are all the same animal. There are only two things that this crime family care about and that is Profit and Control.

Discount all information that you think you know that you have heard or read. We know that THEY are using brainwashing methods and lying about the wellhead condition and flow rate. The cover up and propaganda continues.

I have yet to find the source for the most resent scare tactic about the methane bubble below the sea floor. I know how propagandist use fear as a weapon with unverified rumors as a way of distraction from liability and what they are really doing ( or not doing).
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/06/21/could-gulf-oil-leak-lead-to-methane-bubble-tsunami-bp-responds/

We know that the Russians sent their MIR down to survey the Gulf sea floor. The full report remains secret. They did report (when they got back to Russia) that there were 18 leaks and that the largest leak was 7 miles from the wellhead that BP is salvaging oil out of.
http://beforeitsnews.com/news/76/057/Scientists_Warn_Gulf_Of_Mexico_Sea_Floor_Fractured_Beyond_Repair.html

We know the wellhead pipe is 22 inches. The blow out preventer sits on top and is leaking at what pressure? Certainly not 100,000 psi! The leak holes would tear the BOP apart.
http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2010/06/22/bps-lies-about-methane-and-oil-plumes-exposed/

We also know that the pipe is burst below the wellhead and the oil and gas leaking at the base is proof of that. If the BOP was capped the oil would simply leak out of the pipe below it. The pipe is ruptured but intact but if the flow is not stopped it will eventually wash out the pipe and enlarge the hole and flow.

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By Lawrence Baker, June 23, 2010 at 9:27 am Link to this comment

Part 2.

My simple solution for stopping the oil flow, using known heavy marine construction pile driving technology, is to lower a larger 4 feet in diameter pipe over the BOP and wellhead and drive the pipe into the sea floor 300 feet (or deeper).  The BOP, bore hole and ruptured pipe are contained inside the larger pipe and the flow pressure is reduced as the flow is released into the larger pipe.

Example: If we turn on a garden hose with a nozzle on it full flow and direct the flow straight up; the water will squirts 15 feet into the air. If we tie the nozzle to the faucet and cover the spray with a 6 inch pipe and bury the pipe into the ground so the water wouldn’t leak out the bottom; the high pressure spray in a few inches of water would be smothered in its own water. The water pressure in the pipe is substantially reduced because of its higher volume. Eventually, the weight of the column of water would overcome the water pressure from the faucet and the water would cease to flow into the pipe.

The same applies to the wellhead. The open pipe that is lowered 5,000 feet to the sea floor is an engineering feat. The pipe has to have a series of valves to control the Hydrostatic pressure in the pipe created by the Atmospheric pressure from the water depth. I am the inventor of the Hydrostatic Pressure Pipe and have proven that theory with experiments.

As the pipe is driven into the sea floor casing the wellhead and bore hole the pipe is simultaneously loaded with drilling mud which will out weight the oil and gas pressure from the well. Remember the pipe is a mile long and as the weight increases from the mud the oil will retreat down the hole.

Think of a giant syringe.

We have gravity in our favor and eventually we change the mix to a cement to permanently seal the bore hole. Once the well is sealed below the surface and the cement dries; the pipe can be cut off and used to plug another hole.

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By Sodium-Na, June 22, 2010 at 2:31 pm Link to this comment

For Lawrence Baker,

Lawrence,

I have just finished reading all your posts. Your knowledge about oil spelling catastrophe in the seas is,indeed,impressive.

Thank you for being the exponent in outlining constructive ideas as to how to deal with the current catastraphe in the gulf. I am highly impressed by the content of your posts to a point of printing them out and filing them in a new file for possible future references. Yours posts are outstanding,indeed. Much appreciated. Please keep posting. Thank you.

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By archivesDave, June 22, 2010 at 1:38 pm Link to this comment

N.G.:
Gen McCrystal, I think, sees the light at the end of the tunnel and unfortunately it’s the Taliban.
He doesn’t wish to go down in history as a Viet Nam symbolism scape goat.
I see what you mean about Bill Cooper and he had the same sensationalist sandpaper personality of an Alex Jones which is why I’m sure they didn’t get along. Unfortunately, a great many whistle blowers and Paul Reveres have the same problem but that doesn’t mean we should throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Very often in life, I have learned the most from the
folks that I have vehemently disagreed with: I had to
take off my ‘choir robe’ and step into the ‘rabble rouser’s outfit.

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By Night-Gaunt, June 22, 2010 at 11:00 am Link to this comment

ofersince72, we can affect the CO2 level but it will take many decades and billions of dollars to do it. Even so it could take 1,000 years to have a chance or returning our earth closer to what it has been this past glaciation ended some 10,000 years ago. I am sorry if you are put off by learned people but that is how they operate. They all can’t be a Dr. Carl Sagan. First we need to stop making it rise. Our goal should be 350 ppm as the uppermost level, it should be below it by at least 50-100 ppm. We are now at 392.94 ppm and still climbing with no end in sight. Haven’t seen such levels for at least 20 million years (Eocene).*

*Note we should have been in a normal cooling trend these past 30 years but it has been warming. Now we have started a normal warming trend while we are still warming artificially.

Check out also http://www.350.org too for more data and what one can do at the home and city level to get the ball rolling to curb what is happening to us by us.

Chuck Stevens, Lyndon LaRouche is hardly a credible source. His scams, hucksterism and criminal actions hardly help him for any good ideas he may have.

ArchivesDave I remember how weird it was the reports of the police chasing down and shooting Cooper though he was on crutches & may not have been armed and this was just after 9/11/01 which made it all the more surreal. I listened to his radio show and it was full of the usual Reich wing Christian based conspiracy stories (the Illuminati, Freemasons, Marxism, Communist kind of connexions made before) and he refused to give what his religious basis was. Better to inhibit anyone calling him on any contradictions he would make. He was an angry man and didn’t treat anyone who disagreed with him like an adult. <i.“Go change out of your poopy diapers then call back!”</i> Was one I recalled vividly after a young man called in and wanted clarification of something Cooper said that didn’t make sense to him. He had a bad reputation for those who disagreed, and did it with intelligence, he just had a volcanic temper that got worse as time went on.

Even if the explosive they used is one of the fuel-air bombs the outcome would be the same, only without the added problem of radioactivity a nuclear warhead would leave in its wake. Just hope they don’t do it.

No evidence Rham Emmanuel will be stepping down but Gen. McCrystal will most assuredly be doing so after his poorly chosen words. It might have been due to lack of sleep and food. It can cause you to gain weight and to not think clearly.

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By archivesDave, June 22, 2010 at 4:47 am Link to this comment

BR549:
The only viable solution that I can see is to drill
new taps into the original drill site deep enough
down to the bottom floor of the particular abiotic
oil strata but dollars to donuts they have no clue
exactly where that is.  And even if they get lucky enough to do that, I doubt if they will ever be able to seal off the original line due to the fact that the pressure is estimated up to 100,000 POUNDS which NONE OF THE MEDIA IS DISCLOSING.
And one other little factoid the media refuses to touch:  This oil field is ABIOTIC and may reach out HUNDREDS OF MILES. 
PEAK OIL: What a ‘PIPE DREAM’ and bunch of crap!!!

Lawyers, politicians, BP and Media: How can you tell when they’re lying?  .. When their lips are moving
and even when they aren’t.

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By BR549, June 22, 2010 at 4:08 am Link to this comment

Re:  archivesDave, June 21 at 11:33 pm #
“Nobody seems to have any idea just exactly what the strata composition is
down there. What a DISASTROUS proposal!!!!...But just watch, they may in deed
try it.”

As I said earlier, the shock radius will travel further than the melt radius and all
this will do is destabilize the sea bottom in a circular area around the melt
plug. When this area falls victim to the pressures beneath, we can count on a
huge violent upwelling of gases carrying who knows how much crude and
other volatiles with it. And what is to happen after the expansion from the
explosion and then the collapse of the local seabed after the rapid rise of
gases?

I suppose, in theory, if the melt radius were to extend “beyond” the potential
fracture area, which is even now apparently at a 20 mile radius, and all of that
totally overlapped the entire deposit, it could work, but would you trust these
people again? I wouldn’t. In order for this to work, then, the area they would
have to cover would be enormous. No small cute little PNE would even come
close to doing what needed to be done so you could kiss the Gulf of Mexico
goodbye for fishing and habitation for at least 50 years. Think Bikini Islands.

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By archivesDave, June 21, 2010 at 7:33 pm Link to this comment

Chuck Stevens:
LaRouche a STATESMAN?  an Economist???
Perhaps on Mars or Nibiru??”?
Come on, get real!
Nobody seems to have any idea just exactly what the
strata composition is down there. 
What a DISASTROUS proposal!!!!...But just watch,
they may in deed try it.

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By ofersince72, June 21, 2010 at 7:24 pm Link to this comment

I am still astoundingly amazed that most believe it
is better to burn that oil off than to let it hit the
beach and clean it up there.

this is unbelievable, and what waste of oxygen.

What really “burns” me up (pun intended) is that it
is against the law…. we get fined if we burn a piece
of plastic and they catch us.

But anyway,
we are so
S R E W E D ! ! ! ! ! ! !all the dumbest they could do
                  they did.

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By ejreed, June 21, 2010 at 6:50 pm Link to this comment

And the beat goes on. 63 days and counting…
How big is the oil spill in the Gulf? The size of Nagasaki? Chernobyl? Bigger. Editorial illustrator Steve Brodner compares the 78,000 square mile oil spill in the Gulf to more familiar things http://www.newslook.com/videos/221825-just-how-big-is-the-oil-spill

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By ofersince72, June 21, 2010 at 4:36 pm Link to this comment

Any climatologist that says man can have an influence
on the present C02ppm , is lieing stright thew their
teeth,  man can not bring the present C02ppm down
not even one ppm if we were to shut down every emmission
right this minute,

they all know this damn well, including Gore, Hanson,
McKibben and the rest.

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By ofersince72, June 21, 2010 at 3:41 pm Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, been to that web-site, Realclimate several
times, don’t like it, a bunch of world climatologists
rationalizing accepted version.

  Not only would they not answer a few questions of mine,
they wouldn’t even post them.
  They tend to tangle everything up with technical
talk and observations and throw around their PH.Ds.
  Kind of reminded me of the OilDrum site during all the
top kill and junk shot and mud shot junk shot., all the
“experts” from the oil industry taking us through every
move and explaining how it was going work and why it
would work…and they were wrong every time.
  As I have stated many here on Truth Dig,, I have follow
ed the C02ppm since the early eighties and the politics
of the climate change with it, it has been studied
extensivly since the sixties., so where were all these
climatologist alarmist on RealClimate thirty years ago?

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By archivesDave, June 21, 2010 at 3:32 pm Link to this comment

Guyz:
If you aren’t familiar with William Cooper, I CAN highly recommend pulling him up on youtube.
I just finished watching the tapes on how he was
assassinated and they’re pretty eye-opening.

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By BR549, June 21, 2010 at 2:46 pm Link to this comment

Re:  Ed Harges, June 21 at 3:44 pm
“Maybe Israel has decided to off Obama, and Rahm doesn’t want to be standing
anywhere near the target when the Mossad makes its move.”

I said over a year ago, as we found Obama drifting all too quickly toward his
illuminists’ mandate, that they probably read him the riot act early on and asked
him if he wanted to be around when his daughters graduated.

These people are masters of deception; the darkest form of humanity. As Jeff
Goldblum said in the movie Independence Day, “They’re using our own satellites
against us.”

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By Chuck Stevens, June 21, 2010 at 2:37 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Imagine that we discovered that the government had discovered that there was a comet on course to hit the Earth two months ago. A comet capable of killing between two million to three hundred million people. And the government has done nothing about it, like look into utilizing a nuclear option against it. Read the following.
June 18, 2010 (LPAC) — Economist and statesman Lyndon LaRouche said today that a critical matter of the BP/Gulf of Mexico oil disaster for which President Obama has to be held to account, is that he has taken no steps to clear the most likely ultimate method of ending the oil gusher — a peaceful nuclear explosion (PNE).
LaRouche charged that the President, despite accumulating evidence, has failed to act on the fact that — since this blowout may actually be a systemic blowout of a whole area of leaks, or a single disastrous blowout greater than hitherto acknowledged — in those cases the United States would have to use a peaceful nuclear explosion to end it.
“The President should have been advised of this, and he should have already gone to other signators of the 1996 Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty,” LaRouche said. “We should have gotten the agreement of the parties, in advance, to prepare an exception for this case, in case it may be necessary, with the implication that it may be necessary in other cases as well.”
By seeking such agreement in advance, the President would also have been initiating preparations, LaRouche emphasized, since the United States may ultimately have no other way to stop the blowout. But Obama, on this front as on others in the Gulf crisis, has done nothing.
The competence and experience to design and deploy a device appropriate for use in sealing the blown-out BP well exists within the United States national laboratories. The United States’ national laboratories have extensive experience with peaceful nuclear explosions, as well as with hundreds of underground nuclear tests carried out through 1992.
For more details see
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Articles_2010/BP_nuclear-option.pdf

Chuck Stevens

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By archivesDave, June 21, 2010 at 12:22 pm Link to this comment

N.G.:
Thanks for the ref. link on Climategate.
For those interested in other ‘scientific’ perspectives
you can do a search on wordpress: The issue is far from being settled.

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By Ed Harges, June 21, 2010 at 11:44 am Link to this comment

re:By ofersince72, June 21 at 4:03 am :

Maybe Israel has decided to off Obama, and Rahm doesn’t want to be standing
anywhere near the target when the Mossad makes its move.

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By Night-Gaunt, June 21, 2010 at 11:20 am Link to this comment

The whole “Climate Gate” is an inflated nothing done by the Conservatives to sow doubt which is their stock and trade. Nothing was wrong at all. Nothing. Just use a search engine or check out http://www.realclimate.com for what they have to say.

Remember ACORN brought down by a bogus story? Same with this, bogus overplayed, weak corporate mainstream press lets it ride. They don’t question it.

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By archivesDave, June 21, 2010 at 11:02 am Link to this comment

ofersince:
Don’t really know what to think about the whole climate (gate?) situation but keep in mind how the MSM has consistently lied to us over and over and over.
Don’t know if u remember it but the MSM bombarded us
around 30 to 40 yrs ago with a global cooling scheme.
And there are so many issues in Medical Science where
they consistently lie until the facts eventually overwhelm them….Stomach ulcers is a prime example:
A small Aussie doc proved around 30 yrs ago that they
were primarily caused by a bacteria.  Mainstream medicine blackballed him but he was eventually proven right.

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By ofersince72, June 21, 2010 at 4:35 am Link to this comment

How wrong Bill Clinton was when he said

  “It’s the economy stupid.”

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By ofersince72, June 21, 2010 at 1:21 am Link to this comment

You don’t believe that the climate collapse is a myth
do you, like all the business men libertarians are
putting out?

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By ofersince72, June 21, 2010 at 1:12 am Link to this comment

It is really not going to make much difference,
the planet is screwed beyond repair, they can try
eating and drinking their money and oil but they in
the same fix we are.

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By archivesDave, June 21, 2010 at 12:58 am Link to this comment

Ofersince:
Kissinger, yes…a ‘Lieutenant’ .
Cheney, nope…he’s considerably farther down the ‘food’ chain from my sources.
Of course all of the ‘Colonels’ & ‘Generals’ are
in the shadows and will remain there.

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By ofersince72, June 21, 2010 at 12:36 am Link to this comment

Dave, I was thinking Dick Cheney, or Kissinger.

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By ofersince72, June 21, 2010 at 12:32 am Link to this comment

“The tectonic system is a thermomechanical system.
  Everything on this earth, espeially the maintenance
  of a viable environment for all living organisms, is
  totally dependent on the tectonic system. When the
  tectonic system funs out of fuel and fails, the earth
  will be a cold dead planet like Mars.
    As such , it is desined to work in conformance with
  the known laws governing such systems and in
  conformance with the known physicdal characteristics
  of materials which comprise the system.”
J. HAMAKER 1981

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By archivesDave, June 21, 2010 at 12:25 am Link to this comment

ofersince:
Rahm..stepping down?..Who will replace him, Dracula?
“better the devil you know….”
Of course even if it did happen, how about Rubin, Brzenski, Bernanke, Geithner, and a dozen other foxes in charge of the henhouse and pimps for the NWO.

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By ofersince72, June 21, 2010 at 12:03 am Link to this comment

There is no telling how much oxygen they are going
thru burning that oil off….we are screwed !!!!

Hey Ed Harges…..Rahm Emmanual is stepping down

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By Sandra S, June 20, 2010 at 9:33 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Corporations are slave plantations so they’re already illegal.
They enslave their workers & every person who doesn’t work for
a corporation too. The only way to get big appliances is from a
corporation is from a corporation, & those who can’t get the
money don’t get one. The rich are slaves too as long as there is
unequal wealth. We should say all people on earth must own
everything, otherwise it’s slavery. If all people own all things,
then money wouldn’t be able to exist & food, medicine,
education & building beautiful 100+story Tower cities (each
tower with all things) connected to mag-lev Trains worldwide.

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By archivesDave, June 20, 2010 at 6:46 pm Link to this comment

Guyz:
This whole scenario reminds me of the grand ol Charley Schultz Peanuts comic strip where Charlie Brown seasonally dreamed of kicking that there football to kingdom come.  Lucy came along and convinced him once again that she would faithfully hold the ball while he kicked it.  And once again she pulled the ball away at the last minute.
The difference between Lucy and our illustrious
‘leaders’ is that there were no ‘elitists’ overseeing her overtures and the question remains as to how much ineptitude is involved in all this and
how much these issues fit into the nefarious global plan, ‘ordo ab chao’. (As per Manly Hall)

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By SteveL, June 20, 2010 at 6:36 pm Link to this comment

Repubs:  We didn’t say drill baby drill, deregulate, and get govt. off our back.  Yeah
sure.

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By Ed Harges, June 20, 2010 at 4:54 pm Link to this comment

Re:By BR549, June 20 at 8:21 pm:

I can just barely imagine the general population awakening, in the sense of finally
being angry and determined to change things.

What I find harder to imagine is that this anger would be directed constructively.

I just don’t think the general level of education is there. Who knows what kind of
magica-thinking craziness would capture the general enthusiasm, once it got
fired up.

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By BR549, June 20, 2010 at 4:21 pm Link to this comment

The hardest part for all of us is in waking those of our friends and our families
out of the stupor they are currently in. It is a SLOW process. Having to compete
with the onslaught of American Idol and ball games, too many people get
sucked right back into the Matrix before they even realize there’s a Red Pill
option.

And therein lies the battle. If everyone were to actually wake up” tomorrow
morning, Congress’ and Obama’s ratings would be taking their final death nell
into historical oblivion, so if there is any sense of pessimism, it is around the
remainder of the population who still don’t get it or refuse to believe that they
could have possibly been asleep for as long as they have.

We can talk about conspiracies or just blame ineptitude, but the fact remains
that the powers that are currently running this circus only seem to know how
to make one bad decision after another.

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By Ed Harges, June 20, 2010 at 2:38 pm Link to this comment

The running count as of now:

—Lowest estimate: just under 80 million gallons to date.

—Highest estimate: just under ONE QUARTER OF ONE BILLION
gallons, so far.

Running counter here:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2010/05/newshour-oil-widget-2-
including-spillcam.html

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By Night-Gaunt, June 20, 2010 at 2:10 pm Link to this comment

Both Republicans and Democrats lead the way to creation of the MMS & EPA giving passes for environmental impact statements and the general lack of any real policing of quality contorl have all added up to today. How many close calls we have no idea about? Like with a nuclear plant melt down, all we need is on gigantic oil spewing gusher in a smaller body of water like the Gulf of Mexico to foul things up on a huge scale. This is a mega-disaster fully as bad as a volcanic eruption or tsunami only this one is totally Man made. Yep, we ourselves did it, like a gun to our head. Only the chamber clicked on a bullet this time. Ouch!

Facing facts is the first step to correction. Playing the positive sunshine always gambit is what put us into this situation in the first place. Time to get the cold water on the head and clear the stars out of the eyes and get to work. No more political gamesmanship. We have no time.

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By Ed Harges, June 20, 2010 at 2:08 pm Link to this comment

re:By BR549, June 20 at 5:44 pm:

Oh well; if we nuke the Gulf and it drains like a sink,
at least the last survivors of Hiroshima will die laughing.

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By Litl Bludot, June 20, 2010 at 2:00 pm Link to this comment

The conversation has not reached the heart of the matter.  But the oil will. 
Check out ocean currents on Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_stream
Once the oil gets into the gulf stream, the Atlantic ocean’s sea creatures, which
have lived and propagated in the currents are decimated. 

Add the oil to the already stressed ocean biosphere from the rising temps and acidity
from terrestial co2 going turning into carbonic acid when its absorbed by the
ocean. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification

Now some may say that there’s not enough oil to harm the Atlantic, but there is
because sea creatures propagate in “hot spots” where the currents are and
where the corral thrives..That is exactly where the oil,  methane gas from the
oil deposit, and dispersal chemicals will go i.e. to the breeding, propagating,
“hot spots” because that’s where the currents are.  WAKE UP PEOPLE. 

This is disaster capitalism, this is the way it works, by destroying the
environment, not just a part of it, but ALL OF IT. 

You want to stop it, then don’t elect B.S. artists chosen by the media and
corporations.  You’ve had a chance the last 4 elections to elect someone who
understood this.

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By BR549, June 20, 2010 at 1:44 pm Link to this comment

NIghtGaunt,
I don’t think you’re exaggerating one bit. Fatalistic? I see it as cautious realism.
The only reason anyone would have to appear fatalistic is in realizing we still
have to deal with the incompetency of those in charge of the situation.

Nuking this would only further fracture the fragile substrate. The nuke
supporters seem to think that the explosion will “fuse” the ocean bottom into a
massive plug of sea glass. How quaint. The truth, however is that the shock
wave radius would travel far further than the melt radius and it stands the
potential for having the entire sea bed beyond the melt radius become
unstable. You think we have a problem now, wait until they nuke it. Not only
would we have oil EVERYWHERE all at once, it would be mixed with radioactive
sediment as well.

Again, who has allowed these drilling strategies? Which body has allowed the
oil companies to buy up energy conserving patents only to put them into the
deep freeze while more oil is sold? And which body is now scurrying around
trying to save their asses by looking like they are outraged yet now part of the
solution, when they were the cause of the whole problem to begin with?

If you guessed the Congress and Senate you win an all expenses paid luxurious
trip to the shores of sunny Louisiana. (Oh, wait, that trip’s been cancelled)

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By Ed Harges, June 20, 2010 at 1:39 pm Link to this comment

The fact that people are talking about something as desperate as nuking it
suggests that the relief wells are not expected to work.

Perhaps the structure of the bore hole and pipe system is so broken down that
they already know a relief well can’t fix it, and are just putting off having to tell the
public.

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By Ed Harges, June 20, 2010 at 1:25 pm Link to this comment

re:By Lawrence Baker, June 20 at 3:44 pm:

OK, so the Arabian spill was 700 million gallons over a period of
two years. Well, estimates are that the BP spill could already be
more than a third of that, after just two months.

And much of the Arabian spill was from a finite source, two leaking
supertankers. The 2 spewing wells must have been spilling at a much
lower rate than the one now in our gulf, if the total spill after 2 years
and including the two tankers was only 700 million gallons.

At the LOWEST estimate of the BP spill rate, the current gusher has already
spilled about 79 million gallons in two months. Rounding that off to 80 million
every 2 months, we get a figure of or 480 million gallons per year, 960 gallons
in two years, i.e., approximately a BILLION gallons.

The high-end flow estimate is that about 245 million gallons have spilled in the
last 2 months. That would be TWO BILLION NINE HUNDRED FORTY MILLION
GALLONS after two years.

You know, that’s very similar to THREE BILLION gallons.

I know, I’m shouting; but I really think you fail to appreciate the scale of what is
happening here.

It really calls into question the deepwater drilling industry itself, and I can see
you don’t want to go there.

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By Night-Gaunt, June 20, 2010 at 1:17 pm Link to this comment

Yes whoever had that brilliant dumb idea needs to be put in charge of wiping the asses of the executives for that is all they are good for. Dr. Michi Okaku spoke twice, in two days on Keith Olberman about nuking the well to seal it & how such a bad idea it really is.

As for “fatalism” I don’t think I am out of line on this. The delays taken keep all the foreign cleaning operations on hold instead of filling the Gulf of Mexico and getting to work with the cost to be taken care of by BP/Trans Ocean/Halliburton. As I said if leaks are now coming from the sea bed means that some fracturing has happened to the strata deeper in the well and all you can do is to suck it up, but no one can cap that. That can’t be capped and it is something the corporate liars would not mention. Publicity is being controlled, mostly, this is a disaster for them financially.

The use of a nuclear device will advance no one’s cause as you put it archivesDave, not a bit of it.

The only positive that might, and I stress might, come out of this oil debacle would be strictures on wildcatting without proven safe guards and clean up tech at the ready. And it will be small gain in a tremendous loss of the Gulf of Mexico for some time to come. I don’t believe I am exaggerating at all on this.

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By BR549, June 20, 2010 at 1:14 pm Link to this comment

Meanwhile, ............ after nearly a whole month political BS, massive pools of
midwater oil

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2010/06/why-obamas-epa.html

Check out the Star Trek pic after the short article. One picture’s worth a
thousand words.

BTW, everyone thinks that since oil is spewing up from this site, that it would
automatically come to the surface. I’m not what type of crude this is, but crude
oil can about the same specific gravity as seawater, which would explain why
so much of this oil is still at midwater and heading for coral reefs southward.
Only the higher fractions are going to immediately come to the surface. The
denser ones, particularly if cold, will actually sink.
See:  http://www.jmcs.org.mx/OLD/PDFS/V49/N1/E-Fetter.pdf

As a former salvage diver, I have on several occasions run across pools of
sunken sticky crude covered up by a thin layer of silt and sand. A real mess if
you step in it thinking it is sand and some of it has been on the bottom for
over 50 years. The specific gravity of crude changes with temperature and a lot
of it will never reach the surface. The midwater fractions, however, will be at
the whim of the currents and any hurricane, and this was the worst time of year
for this to happen, except for during an actual hurricane.

My point is that we needed to have as many vessels on site ASAP instead of
playing political games with the Gulf ecology at stake. It was just plain stupid.

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By archivesDave, June 20, 2010 at 12:52 pm Link to this comment

NG:
Some very influential ‘experts’ are now hinting at nuking it.  Scary scary thought huh?
Whatever it takes to advance the Globalists’ cause.

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By Night-Gaunt, June 20, 2010 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

With the reports trickling in that there is extensive damage below ground and oil has been sighted in several places leaking from the gulf bottom could mean something worse than the on going mega disaster it is. They may never be able to “cap” it. All they might be able to do is to work to suck in as much of the oil and natural gas spewing out in thousands of barrels. That is worse case which would mean that the Gulf of Mexico could become an oily desert free of most life except bacteria. This could be going on for years if not decades to come. That and if the oil companies don’t spend serious R & D money on new ways to drill and capture any spill it would be wreckless to continue drilling. Nice choices aren’t they?

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By archivesDave, June 20, 2010 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

BR:
“Potential disaster” ???
No way Hosea!!!!

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By Lawrence Baker, June 20, 2010 at 12:40 pm Link to this comment

Archivedave and nightgaunt: More fatalism, helplessness and confusion. I guess the fact that Americans are so complacent is because they believe what they want to believe; no matter what the facts are.

The fine art of brainwashing is when “fact and reality” is disregarded altogether for blind belief. (Hail Big Brother!)
If you guys would have looked at the research and reporting in the Esquire site you would have got some insight to how the oil tanker business is ran instead of flying off the handle. Esquire titled: Nearly 50 Supertankers Are Waiting for BP (on the Cheap)

Read more: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/bp-oil-spill-cleanup-costs-060410#ixzz0rQHrYSrj

I’m going swimming on the lake. I’ll be back later

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By BR549, June 20, 2010 at 12:35 pm Link to this comment

Re:  Lawrence Baker, June 20 at 3:44 pm
“Ed for someone who speaks in absolutes, you sure don’t know much. Your
helpless fatalism is amazing and so sure!”

Well, we can probably rule out your being in any business that requires tact or
diplomacy.

Since people in BP KNEW this was a problems months ago and spent more time
trying to cover their asses instead of shutting the well bore down, and since
Obama feels so comfortable turning away offers to assist in the immediate
clean up, please enlighten this lowly list here as to exactly why this should be
seen as anything BUT a potential disaster.

Since so many forces are working counterproductively here and the whole
history leading up to this has cluster f^ck written all over it, why are we
supposed to think that any future decisions about this or any other wells will
be made with regard to the environment or the surrounding populations?

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By Ed Harges, June 20, 2010 at 12:25 pm Link to this comment

re:By Lawrence Baker, June 20 at 3:44 pm

OK, I didn’t realize it was also two well blowouts that weren’t capped, and for so
long. Sorry.

Were the blowouts spewing as much per day is the Gulf of Mexico blowout? And
were they ultra-deep wells, or relatively shallow ones?

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By Ed Harges, June 20, 2010 at 12:21 pm Link to this comment

(My comment June 20 at 4:05 pm was posted
to the wrong thread. Sorry!)

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By Ed Harges, June 20, 2010 at 12:05 pm Link to this comment

Supposedly Arabs “eat this up.”

I don’t know about that, maybe they do. But really,
after the past century’s history of Zionism in the Middle East,
Arabs must find Jewish complaining about this dusty old piece
of propaganda rather amusing—like a man saying, “The charge
that I murdered ten people is a vicious slander; I definitely didn’t
murder five of those people!”

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By Lawrence Baker, June 20, 2010 at 11:44 am Link to this comment

Sterling example, Ed Harges says: “I think the reason you’re not getting much response is that the Arabian oil spill was so different from the problem we now face. The Arabian spill resulted from two tankers colliding. That resulted in a finite oil spill, and so all efforts could be immediately focused on containment and cleanup.”

Ed for someone who speaks in absolutes, you sure don’t know much. Your helpless fatalism is amazing and so sure!

The cleaned up oil magically disappears as it is processed into fuel.

The Arabian Oil Spill was two out of control oil wells and two leaking Supertankers. As I pointed out it was a 700 million gallon oil spill that was 65 times larger than the Supertanker Exxon Valdez spill! It was a nearly two years before the oil flow from the oil wells were capped!

First read my article than follow my Esquire link in the article and you will find full research and reporting there in the index.

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By archivesDave, June 20, 2010 at 11:19 am Link to this comment

Ed and Lawrence:
Ed, I certainly agree with you…Not that we shouldn’t be enlisting a huge fleet of tankers from all over the planet as per your suggestion Lawrence.
As indicated by such experts as Matthew Simmons and others, until we can get a handle on this (unlimited,
abiotic?) geyser, it will be like trying to plug one
single hole in a sieve.  And this sieve is of a vertical classification as well as horizontal to make
matters far worse; Which is why nuking it probably won’t work and may make matters FAR FAR worse.  <theoildrum.com> is an excellent resource site.

And no matter what folks think about Alex Jones and his tinfoil hats, I highly encourage everyone to look up his June 17th interview with Lindsey Williams on youtube.

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By Night-Gaunt, June 20, 2010 at 11:02 am Link to this comment

Despite what many Republicans have been saying all drilling must be stopped until new and proven methods of capping, and cleanup can be devised. (Something most of them have neglected to do for decades. All it takes is one.) And this is the second one after Ixtoc in 1979. There are other spills but this isn’t a spill, it is a gusher! That must be remembered and reinforced.

Why hadn’t our president waved the foreign flag shipping exclusion to let in those ships that have the ability to start cleanup? 63 days and still nothing? Terrible. He owns this alright. Owns to the hilt just as Bush did with Katrina/Rita.

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By Ed Harges, June 20, 2010 at 10:51 am Link to this comment

Lawrence, I think the reason you’re not getting much response is that the Arabian
oil spill was so different from the problem we now face.

The Arabian spill resulted from two tankers colliding. That resulted in a finite oil
spill, and so all efforts could be immediately focused on containment and cleanup.

In contrast, this seemingly inexhaustible Gulf of Mexico oil volcano has got
everyone obsessed first and foremost with how to stop the thing. Eventually, no
containment effort, no matter how vast, will be able to prevent the oil from
destroying the entire gulf, and a good chunk of the southern US Atlantic coast as
well, if the blowout can’t be stopped.

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By Ed Harges, June 20, 2010 at 10:40 am Link to this comment

re:By Lawrence Baker, June 20 at 2:34 pm:

Was the Arabian oil spill a blowout, or was it a tanker accident like Exxon Valdez?

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By Lawrence Baker, June 20, 2010 at 10:34 am Link to this comment

The reason I post on Truth Dig is because I am addressing the issue of the out of control oil well and oil spill.

The issue is what to do with all that oil in the water, rationally the only answer is to remove the oil from the water before it spreads 48 miles to shore.

In my post, (6 down) I pointed out how with Supertankers that herculean task was performed in the Arabian Oil Spill. Not one comment!

Americans are totally brainwashed by TV! No one can watch TV without being brainwashed! Brainwashed people can not address the issues or the truth. The idea of brainwashing is to never address the true issue but to hide the truth with emotions, diversions and confusion.

American Conservatives and Liberals- Republicans and Democrats live in an illusion of Democracy as the Totalitarians are in full control manipulating issues and thinking.

Americans in their TV brainwashed delusion have been rendered into fatalistic victims with the IQ of a TV set. Pathetic, spoiled, uneducated, resigned to suicidal fatalism with undefined and unrefined finger pointing at each other rather than address the truth.  I can imagine citizens in a similar shocked quandary as Rome burned!

Supertankers Now! or economic and ecological suicide. You decide American Idiot!

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By BR549, June 20, 2010 at 4:29 am Link to this comment

I had a history somewhat like Dave’s, and when I went back and revisited all
those pieces I had read in high school on history and economics, it then
painted an entirely different picture. I mean, except for parroting some phrases
in a book, what does any pimply faced teenager really know about connecting
all those dots?

In older, more tribal settings, those where the elders had their place at the
campfire and were expected to impart their accumulated wisdoms to the youth
and their parents, the passing down of verbal traditions also allowed those
wisdoms to reach the youth. At least, if nothing else, the elderly had their place
in the culture instead of just being tolerated and then selectively culled for
removal.

Our culture today has no time for those who might have been able to
accumulate any wisdom. It is too busy dealing with “new” and “fast” and
“improved”. And the sad flip side to this is that too many of the elderly don’t
see their place as potential wisdom holders. They’ve gone through life totally
buying into the myth that, as elderly people, they have become as burdensome
to society as three years olds and many of them just act that part out.

But back to the oil spill, unless the rest of the voters are able to connect the
dots and see what sequence of events led up to it, it will only happen again and
again, until such time that people get politically savvy enough to vote those
bastards out of office and toss their festering corpses down the steps of the
Capitol Building.

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By archivesDave, June 19, 2010 at 10:48 pm Link to this comment

ofersince:
Many yrs ago I was a Right Winger Conservative: Voted for Goldwater.
Then became a quasi Hippy and campaigned for McGovern.
Then for a few yrs went the Ayn Rand and Ludwig Von Mises route.
About ten yrs ago I became a co owner of a rare and
collectible book store at the Univ of Washington and
started conversing with a lot of astute older
profs as well as some pretty wise ‘neer do wells’.
I noted they were into a lot of literature and underground material from the likes of Blavatsky, Manly Hall, Albert Pike, Hegel et al that I’d never
read or even heard of.
In recent years, profs and researchers like Nicholas
Hagger have helped me start to really connect all the
dots between the past and present/future.

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By ofersince72, June 19, 2010 at 8:57 pm Link to this comment

You probably already figured the reason I asked.

Very few , including myself, that post on TD, don’t have
a politicl agenda. John E. may be an exception to this.

Mine has been fairly clear, don’t vote for either
major party. Even though I have disagreements with
libertarians, I support their vote outside the two party
system.
Personnally, I am closer to the Greens, but to me, any
vote outside the major parties is a step in breaking
the power structure we have now.

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By archivesDave, June 19, 2010 at 8:28 pm Link to this comment

ofersince:
Still trying to decide about the Nov one: If we can’t get some significant comprehensive campaign finance
reform draft/bill going, it will be useless.
IF they do come up with something, it will just be
a little bone they are throwing out with no teeth attached.  The NWO is 96% in place now and most folks
don’t even believe it will happen.

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By archivesDave, June 19, 2010 at 8:02 pm Link to this comment

J.L.: Loved your Rev. quote…
But I think u fail to see the ‘shadow elite’ have full control of the heads of the Mega Corps right now just as there are in charge of the world’s religions,
all three plus several others.

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By ofersince72, June 19, 2010 at 7:53 pm Link to this comment

Archives Dave,

Do you bother to vote in federal elections anymore?
I don’t.

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By BR549, June 19, 2010 at 7:29 pm Link to this comment

Re:  archivesDave, June 19 at 9:35 pm

Dave,
Just so you know, I have nothing against Jews, at least those who are here in
this country and make a sincere attempt to assimilate in this melting pot along
with everyone else.

What I do have a problem with is this incessant “kvetching” that some (not all)
seem to feel is a part of their culture. It’s a trademark for people feeling sorry
for themselves and it has no boundaries in ethnicity, however, there seem to be
a far greater number of Jews with this affliction. Why it has become such a
strong trademark for Jews I will leave up future historians to sort out, but when
they look for an example of someone in this time who best exhibited those
detestable traits of whining, constant complaining, and bitching, no doubt Joe
Liebermann would be at the top of the list.

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By archivesDave, June 19, 2010 at 6:03 pm Link to this comment

John Ellis:
An eternal optimist u most certainly are!
I give u another two to five yrs to become the skeptic and cynic that I’ve become….especially with all the
mounting horsemen closing in on us from all sides.

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By archivesDave, June 19, 2010 at 5:35 pm Link to this comment

BR:
You, my friend have your finger directly on the pulse
of the issue…You appear to be one of the few here who see the overall forest and not the trees.
Keep on with your search and if u haven’t read Nicholas Hagger’s ‘The Syndicate’, I highly recommend it.
Also check out the nefarious roots of the International Bank for Settlements and their direct
involvement with the Fed Reserve, G.S, IMF, G-20, and the coming Global govt.
btw, Just because many of the founding leaders of all of this were and are Jews, this is FAR FAR beyond
them since it fundamentally involves the Catholic church, (Club of Rome, Knights of Malta, etc), MOST freemasonry groups, Russia, China, Euro Royalty, and MANY Islam honchos,  etc, etc.

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By ThaddeusStevens, June 19, 2010 at 4:54 pm Link to this comment

I can only say that Mr. Obama’s presidency is emerging as that of another puppet. Not a very nice puppet, but still, other parties are pulling his strings and writing his script. He occasionally moves under his own volition, like Tuesday June 15th, 2010.
It was not pretty.
http://www.usaliberalism.com

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By BR549, June 19, 2010 at 4:45 pm Link to this comment

Re:  John Ellis, June 19 at 8:33 pm #
“Comes now a perfect solution: NEW CONSTITUTION”

John,
The Constitution isn’t flawed; it’s just outdated, and only in a few areas. If we even
tried to redo the Constitution with this band of idiots at the helm, we would have
NO rights left that weren’t saddled to a set of legislatively bound restrictions. I
mean, try to imagine Monsanto and Gore, and AIPAC and that sniveling whining
jew idiot Liebermann, having input into how our Constitution should be set up.
The Democrats would want it this way and the Republicans would want it another
way, all the while the population of the country would still be wondering when the
politicians they elected would actually become a part of some solution.

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By Lawrence Baker, June 19, 2010 at 4:24 pm Link to this comment

Two months after the Gulf oil well disaster the wellhead oil flow and oil spill remain out of control with no positive action planned to control and suck up the oil at sea before it makes landfall 48 miles away or inters the international Gulf Stream!
That condition is not acceptable! People in charge need to go!
President Obama, Fire BP and appoint proven environmental disaster expert and engineer Nick Pozzi and oil expert and former (Dutch) Shell Oil president John Hofmeister to be in charge of a independent “Stop the Gulf Oil Flow & Clean Up Task Force” to take positive action today.
We need a fleet of Supertankers on site today to recover millions of gallons of oil before it reaches land 48 miles away!
Dutch and Belgium three days after the oil spill offered to help (thank you) but was turned down. They have world renowned technology and expertise to respond to ocean oil spills with a specialized fleet of ocean going ships; they are oil spill professionals that have a proven and positive plan. In short they are prepared for an oil spill.
The US obviously, is not prepared for an oil spill and has no positive plans for either stopping the flow of oil permanently or for cleaning up the oil on the ocean before it reaches land 48 miles away!
Why should Big Oil be prepared in the US, it is easier, and cheaper, to buy corrupt politicians and use in-house illegal, unethical, and unhealthy dispersants than to be prepared for an oil spill. Hell, let nature take care of it!
Dutch and Belgium have a national ocean oil spill response plan and the specialized equipment to do the job. If the same circumstances happened 48 miles off their coast; the oil spill would have not reached shore. They typically would have set up at least 3 perimeters of oil containment on site and used their specialized fleet of tankers and suction oil equipment to suck the millions of barrels of oil into their fleet of tankers.
That oil saved (cleaned up) is processed into fuel; there are no dispersants used! The oil on the surface and at dept below the surface is cleaned up and processed! That’s green, in a way!
The US is backward and sadly corrupt and has no oil spill response plan, expertise or modern equipment to respond; their clean up methods are mean in nature, fatalistic suicidal and archaic. Instead of cleaning up the oil at sea, illegal dispersants (over a million gallons) has been used to spread the oil into the ocean ecosystem to hide it! That’s the “no!!! oil recovery plan”.
There is no plan for stopping the oil flow permanently (relief wells are very tenuous and dangerous) and the extent of the damage to the wellhead and sea floor is kept secret. The controlled mass media is complicit.  That’s the “no!!! stop the oil flow plan”.
The US and BP strategy is to lie and cover up the wellhead and sea floor damage, dispersant health damage, oil flow rate and the extent of the oil spill with a controlled mass media “Gulf Oil Spill black out” and with the ongoing misleading propaganda that never address the true oil spill issues and ramifications (brainwashing). Money can buy anything, right?
For example: The largest oil spill in the world, the Arabian Oil Spill 1993 to 1994, was kept secret (media black out) from the world by the Saudi government and went unreported for 17 years. The spill was estimated to be 700 million gallons, 65 times larger than the Exxon Valdez spill. 85 percent of that spill, an estimated 596 million gallons, was cleaned up on the surface and at dept with the use of Supertankers.
One engineer in charge of that massive undertaking was Mr. Pozzi; experienced engineers and scientist like him should be in charge of the Gulf Oil Spill via an independent task force.
Read more: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/gulf-oil-spill-supertankers-051310#ixzz0rFPAB9CF
The US needs to stop the use of illegal, unhealthy dispersants and change our unreasonable, unscientific and suicidal course.

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By Old Man Turtle, June 19, 2010 at 3:39 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Anyone here losing their enthusiasm for exercises-in-futility, like posting on blog comment threads, might find reason enough to kick the habit in a careful reading of Derrick Jensen’s ENDGAME masterpiece.  The mewling of columnists and the ranting of individual inmates, about such things as the consequences of corporate rapacity, may suddenly appear, even to their self-satisfied producers, as the pitifully inadequate responses (to what my nephew regularly called here “their at-least partly self-inflicted predicament”) that these have always been.

Like Mr. Jensen, Old Man Turtle dares you to actually DO something about it, for a change.  Like my nephew (who participated here for over three years as “TAO Walker”), I recommend you do it The Tiyoshpaye Way.

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By ofersince72, June 18, 2010 at 7:01 pm Link to this comment

everyone should tune into the skandi ROV 1
moniter right now, it is really exciting tonite,
wilder than ever, little explosions, Oh my gosh.

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