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Rape and Spillage

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Posted on Jun 15, 2010
oil spill
AP / Eric Gay

The Transocean Deepwater Discoverer drilling rig, center, and support vessels operate over the site of the Deepwater Horizon oil spill on Sunday.

By Robert Scheer

What’s with the president’s war analogy on the oil spill? It’s as if some alien force, “The Invasion of the Slippery Sludge,” suddenly attacked us. “Abroad, our brave men and women in uniform are taking the fight to al-Qaida,” President Barack Obama said Tuesday in his White House speech, “and tonight, I’ve returned from a trip to the Gulf Coast to speak with you about the battle we’re waging against an oil spill that is assaulting our shores and our citizens.”

What nonsense. The oil was minding its own business until some multinational corporations, enabled by a dysfunctional government regulatory regime, decided to wage war on the ecological balance of the oceans by employing technology that they were not prepared to control. Cleaning up the oil spill mess we made by raping the environment to satiate our consumer gluttony is not a glorious battle against evil but rather obligatory penance for the profound error of our ways.

You wound Mother Nature by punching a hole deep in her pristine ocean where you have no business going and when she bleeds uncontrollably you dare blame her for the assault? This from a president who shortly before this disaster had given the oil companies permission to pillage in the deep seas at will. At least now he admits to having been extremely naive in his belief that they knew what they were doing:

“A few months ago, I approved a proposal to consider new, limited offshore drilling under the assurance that it would be absolutely safe—that the proper technology would be in place and the necessary precautions would be taken. That obviously was not the case on the Deepwater Horizon rig, and I want to know why.”

He already knows why! It’s the same ideological obsession that led to the deregulation of the banking industry based on the assumption that the unfettered pursuit of multinational corporation profits would somehow serve the public good. In every area of federal governance the story is the same; the mammoth corporations, through their lobbyists and campaign contributions, end up controlling the government agencies ostensibly regulating the activities of the military/industrial, health, financial and communications complexes. Why be surprised that the oil conglomerates are also in bed with their pretend Washington regulators? 

Obviously Obama cannot be blamed for the bipartisan endorsement of the Reagan Revolution’s siren song, a call to make the world safe for multinational corporations. The radical anti-regulation campaign—endorsed by Bill Clinton as well as the father-and-son Bush team—corrupted rather than improved the efficiency of the entire private sector, and what happened with the oil industry was the rule and not the exception. 

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In explaining the failure of the Minerals Management Service, responsible for regulating the oil drillers, Obama stated: “Over the last decade, this agency has become emblematic of a failed philosophy that views all regulation with hostility—a philosophy that says corporations should be allowed to play by their own rules and police themselves. At this agency, industry insiders were put in charge of industry oversight. Oil companies showered regulators with gifts and favors, and were essentially allowed to conduct their own safety inspections and write their own regulations.”

That damning indictment of the corporate corruption of our political process should stand as a cautionary tale to those like the majority in those red states now suffering so because of the offshore drilling of which their voters previously approved. Hopefully they, and the president who catered to such impulses, will take away from this very costly mess a justifiable skepticism about the risk assessments of plunderers who treat natural treasures as nothing more than potential profit centers. 

The public goes along because, as with the jobs created by military spending and the false wealth of financial bubbles, it is blinded by lavishly funded corporate PR to the true costs of such reckless corporate behavior. It is understandable that folks struggling to get by would fall for that line, but it is inexcusable when the political elite in Washington that know better goes along with such chicanery. 

The war that needs to be fought and won is against corporate dominance of every important aspect of our political culture. I hope this disaster, its impact revised upward by the government on Tuesday to represent an Exxon Valdez-size spill of oil into the Gulf every four days, will facilitate that. The difference between the new estimate, 60,000 barrels of oil a day, and BP’s original claim of 5,000 barrels a day is just another example of the systemic corporate deceit that has characterized this immense catastrophe. This is the wakeup call to fight corporate arrogance that we, and our president, desperately needed. 

Click here to check out Robert Scheer’s book,
“The Great American Stickup: How Reagan Republicans and Clinton Democrats Enriched Wall Street While Mugging Main Street.”


Keep up with Robert Scheer’s latest columns, interviews, tour dates and more at www.truthdig.com/robert_scheer.



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By ofersince72, July 19, 2010 at 12:18 pm Link to this comment

BR549…

MY dad used use the analogy of running a ship to
define the differences bewtween Liberalism and
conservativism,  it was somewhat like yours

He referred to liberals as the ones in the pilot house
navigating the ship safely from port to port while the
consevatives were in the engine room making the ship run.
A fair sixties analogy although it still doesn’t hold
up today since we have morphed.

Anyway Dad loved the water and spent many hours on his
36ft sloop.  He could navigate any where in the world
without one bit of electronic equipment , most of his
analolgies were about the sea.

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By MarthaA, July 19, 2010 at 11:53 am Link to this comment

archivesDave, July 19 at 7:49 am,

If you are sewing with a needle and thread, you had better follow the truth that a knot needs to be tied in the end of your thread, because without that knot all your sewing will fall apart; no matter what, the truth is the truth.  One can lie and propagandize, but still the truth will be the truth. It is easy to see that sophism and propaganda has taken our country toooooo far from the truth into the Right’s RED FIRE.

On a number line from 0 to 10 of different levels of heat & tyranny, Conservative RED is #10 HOT FIRE, tyranny and War, while 0 is no fire at all, and all the rest of the numbers are different levels of heat, yellow being warm 1.  Autocratic Conservatives are the numbers 6 through 10 and Democratic Liberals are the numbers 0 through 5.

As far as our country is to the Conservative Right, there is no way anyone, except a foolish person, could consider voting for a Republican, whatever they say, because Conservative Republicans hold the Right solidly, as well as much of the Left that should all be Liberal, for equilibrium.  Our political environment must stay in the 1-5 range until a good equilibrium has been found before even thinking about moving into the 6-10 range.

When President Obama took the job of straightening out the country the country was as far to the Right as it was possible to go; not being completely autocratic; it took 40 years for the Conservatives to accomplish propagandizing the populace enough to pull the country away from the populace’s own liberal interests altogether, and it is going to take a while to bring our country back, but President Obama is doing pretty well, if the populace doesn’t get stupid and put the Conservative Republicans back in to squash everything President Obama has done, our country may have a chance to build upon his efforts.

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By archivesDave, July 19, 2010 at 9:06 am Link to this comment

BR549 and ThomasG:
So THAT’S why we seem to prefer the president of one party and Congress of another….
BR549: I think I agree with you on the nuclear issue but what the hell do I know.
Oh, and btw Thomas, just WHO is to determine what the ‘best interests’ are, Big Brother? 
He’s certainly all around us now and doesn’t give a
rip about Right Wing, Left Wing, Dem, Rep, Lib, or any other ‘ism’.
You guys DEFINITELY need to get on youtube as much as you can b4 time RUNS OUT and they start censoring select nuggets by the ilk of Alex Jones, Jesse Ventura, Mother Jones, Huffington, Manly Hall, Salbuchi and even Matt Simmons if he steps out of line too far.

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By BR549, July 19, 2010 at 6:52 am Link to this comment

ThomasG,
That’s one of the cleanest explanations I’ve heard to date. It’s the Yin-Yang,
Steady State vs Big Bang thing put into political perspective.

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By ThomasG, July 19, 2010 at 6:31 am Link to this comment

archivesDave, July 19 at 7:49 am,

Innovationism also known as —Liberalism— and Conservatism, a polarized choice of one to the exclusion of the other is a false choice.

Innovationism also known as —Liberalism— provides growth and development, and Conservatism provides order and stability.

Order and stability in the absence of growth and development results in arrested development and growth, and development in the absence of order and stability results in chaos.

Therefore, a choice of one or the other to the exclusion of the one remaining is a false choice, since both Innovationism also known as—Liberalism— and Conservatism are both necessary to balance and equilibrium, and a false choice of one to the exclusion of the other will result in chaos or arrested development.

Balance between order and stability and growth and development is an enlightened choice that addresses both the concerns of Conservatism and Liberalism—which is the same as Innovationism.

This is the reality in the absence of politics and therefore neither side, the Left or the Right, will pay heed.

Politics is leadership of constituents in their best interest and nonconstituents against their best interest.

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By BR549, July 19, 2010 at 6:10 am Link to this comment

Re:  archivesDave, July 19 at 9:05 am #

“For those still questioning the ‘abiotic oil theory’,
here is a recent interview with Matt Simmons.
He also believes this oil reservoir could be covering
FORTY PERCENT of the Gulf!”

Perhaps the size is true, but I vehemently disagree with his nuke strategy. Just
looking at how the Gulf bed was laid down, it’s no wonder how fragile it is. If
we were to set off a nuke, the concussion of the blast would destabilize the
sedimentary region far past the fusion radius that Simmons thinks will plug the
leak. I fear that it will only create a massive upwelling as the entire fused plug
gets carried up until the pressure is relieved. I think the Russians got away with
it because the difference in the rock composition made that area far more
stable to begin with.

My two cents.

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By archivesDave, July 19, 2010 at 5:05 am Link to this comment

For those still questioning the ‘abiotic oil theory’,
here is a recent interview with Matt Simmons.
He also believes this oil reservoir could be covering
FORTY PERCENT of the Gulf!
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/matt-simmons-revises-leak-estimate-120000-barrels-day-believes-oil-covers-40-gulf-beneath-su

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By archivesDave, July 19, 2010 at 4:32 am Link to this comment

BR549:
“unless Obama employs some flimsy excuse to shut down the internet for some contrived ‘security’ reason(s)”

Excellent point: I predict it will happen w/i the next couple years or sooner.  Here’s a link to underline your point:

http://www.elliottwave.com/freeupdates/archives/2010/07/13/-Kill-Switch—Engage.aspx

Suggestion: It would behoove all of us to do “our
homework” while we still can….CARPE DIEM.

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By archivesDave, July 19, 2010 at 4:17 am Link to this comment

MarthaA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLzZjaMEGJA&NR=1
THIS is our absolute mortal enemy and even ‘conservatives’ and Teapartiers are beginning to wake up to this fact.
We will all learn to hang together or we will most
certainly hang separately sooner or later.

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By BR549, July 19, 2010 at 4:17 am Link to this comment

MarthaA, July 12 at 6:33 pm

“...... the inculcated conservative mindset within the liberal populace must be
broken, as all these poor people thinking they are Conservatives makes it next
to impossible to ever have anything close to a democratic republic for the
populace.”

This “Chicken Little” mentality will always vote for the Chicken Little Party
whenever that party starts to push the FEAR BUTTON. These are the true
sheeple, those who waste their votes voting viscerally instead of cognitively.
They are really no different than asking a 4 year old which cereal he likes best
on Saturday morning, right after he’s seen repeated ads for Cocoa-Puffs during
a cartoon show.

While the more centrist and independent candidates have tried to debate the
issues, the Republican or Democratic politicians have sought to play the fear
cards in every election, massaging the overly soft brain matter of people who
just want to put in a decent days work and who are far too naive and trusting of
the band of thugs who are now running government at the national and state
levels. Hopefully, enough may be waking up to effect some changes; that is
unless Obama employs some flimsy excuse to shut down the internet for some
contrived “security” reason(s).

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By archivesDave, July 19, 2010 at 4:05 am Link to this comment

I trust folks have been following Matt Simmons lately as well as other sources from all sides.
Richard Hoagland on coasttocoastam.com has been demanding for weeks that BP hand over the ‘Mud Logs’
which they have adamantly refused. 
I truly feel sorry for Pres Obama since most everyone now sees he is neutered due to his campaign financial ties to BP and Goldman Sachs.

Another issue yet to be forensically examined is the extent of methane gas seepage under the sea floor and is there truly an increased swelling around the well outlet as some reports state.
Here is a recent link of interest:
http://theburningplatform.com/blog/2010/07/18/bp-lying-again/

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By archivesDave, July 19, 2010 at 3:49 am Link to this comment

MarthaA:
I apologize for taking so long to respond.
Sometimes I need to ruminate on other’s comments before responding.
Though I agree with much of your premise, the
issue that comes to the surface is a belief and perspective that I’ve held most of my seventy one years of life.  But one I am gradually willing to cast aside….That of pigeon holing and compartmentalizing everything and everyone.
Concepts such as ‘Progressive’, Conservative, Republican, Teaparty, Liberal, Socialist, and Democratic are basically just that…‘concepts’.
Certainly they may have dogma and guidelines but
most members or associates vary vastly in their
personal views and beliefs. 
And most all ‘members’ or followers EVOLVE sooner or later as I certainly did and continue to do!
Therefore we must TRY to get into their shoes and understand that neither we nor they have a corner on ‘the truth’.  This is why it is so extremely important to comprehensively read and listen to ALL
sides no matter how nutty…People like Michael Savage, Beck, Medved, Jeff Rense, Alex Jones, David Icke, Jordan Maxwell, Lindsey Williams, Mike Malloy, George Noory, Democracy Now, Noam Chomsky, Naomi Klein, Adrian Salbuchi, G Edw Griffin, Dr Nicholas Hagger, The Nation, Ayn Rand, Austrian School of Economics/Von Mises Inst., and, yes, (holding my nose), even Hannity and Limbaugh tho they are certainly part of the MSM. And my time is VERY limited with any of that.

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By MarthaA, July 12, 2010 at 2:33 pm Link to this comment

archivesDave, July 12 at 12:15 am,

If only the members of the populace could learn exactly what political Conservatism is, surely they wouldn’t vote for Conservatism, but the Right-Wing’s Conservatives are so sure of their inculcation of the populace that they are assured that it doesn’t matter to the populace, even though Conservative means they are going to try to get rid of unemployment, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, sell the buildings, bridges, roads and ports in our country to other countries, get even more heavily into outsourcing jobs away from the populace, start more borrowed money wars and police state, and borrow even more money to supposedly lower taxes; it doesn’t matter that the populace will be in debt and be forced to work for slave wages all their days, as this is what Conservatism does….. and all the cows say, “Yeah!”  And it is not funny, although the FOX News Network thinks it is, because they are doing it —————- the populace must be educated against destroying themselves through Right-Wing political conservatism inculcation in this manner.

It is sad that renters, home mortgage payers, auto mortgage payers, Social Security participants, workers, waitresses, auto mechanics, Medicare participants,  Medicaid participants, the nearly destitute and the destitute of the American populace think they are Conservative Republicans and will argue as if they had a leg to stand on, because of all the conservative political inculcation in the schools, churches and in the media—they think they must vote with God. 

As long as the American populace members think that there is Godly and social help for the populace from the autocratic Conservative Right side of the spectrum, and that God is standing on the Right side of the spectrum, they sell themselves and the populace out to be outsourced, sidelined and marginalized.  It is imperative to somehow break the populace’s conservative mindset rut of destruction inculcated by the Glenn Beck Type Conservative Revolution that continues and has continued for the past 30 years.  In order for there to ever be a democratic revolution against the Conservative Revolution, somehow the inculcated conservative mindset within the liberal populace must be broken, as all these poor people thinking they are Conservatives makes it next to impossible to ever have anything close to a democratic republic for the populace.

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By ofersince72, July 12, 2010 at 9:38 am Link to this comment

Dave,  it figures you and BR and Baker

would been hanging at sight called

  RAPE   AND   SPILLAGE..


you’re right this is my home !!!

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By archivesDave, July 12, 2010 at 9:21 am Link to this comment

BR549:
That’s my understanding too but I was adding my own
philosophical take on it for what it’s worth.
IOW, there’s a time to grasp and hold ...and there’s
a time to catch & release, escape and retrench.

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By BR549, July 12, 2010 at 7:58 am Link to this comment

Ofersince72 and ArchivesDave,

I thought the washing coconuts came after the US had tried to restock a former
A-bombed atoll in the Pacific with monkeys, and the researchers had found that
the coconut husks were radioactive.

As I understood it, they taught a few monkeys to wash the coconuts in the water
first and that led to ten monkeys etc., but after the 100th monkey, the entire
population of monkeys were all washing there coconuts, without having been
directly taught.

Think of the implications as more and more people get disgusted with
Washington.  (I feel good today!)  :o)

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By archivesDave, July 12, 2010 at 7:35 am Link to this comment

BR549:
Thanx a lot, u’ve certainly enlightened me on all of this but I still don’t comprehend how it benefits one
to assert “all rights reserved” if it is now no longer legally applicable or is it.
Re your statement about “banking interests gnawing away at the integrity of our politicians”....
I would say the collusion has been so invasive in the past 150 yrs, the more appropriate term would be
‘consumption’.

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By archivesDave, July 12, 2010 at 7:10 am Link to this comment

Ofersince72:
Welcome home.
Re coconuts, the story goes like this:
In the South Pacific Isles, when the natives wanted to catch a monkey, they bored a hole in a coconut just large enough for a monkey to squeeze his hand into.  They then placed a morsel nut within and tethered the coconut to a tree.  The monkey picked up the coconut, squeezed his hand in to get the nut but try as he may, he couldn’t remove the nut perched within his clenched fist.
The natives then descended upon the monkey easily capturing him since he greedily refused to release the morsel and succumbed to his capture.
Hmmmmm…..

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By BR549, July 12, 2010 at 7:07 am Link to this comment

archivesDave,

Rights are automatically waived if they are not claimed.
Uniform Commercial Code (UCC 1-207.9)
“When a waivable right or claim is involved, the failure to make a reservation
thereof, causes a loss of the right, and bars its assertion at a later date.”

Much of the confusion comes citizens being considered “sovereigns” vs
“persons”, as was defined in the 14th Amendment, where it states in Sec. 1,
“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the
jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States ......”
For starters, see:  http://www.civil-liberties.com/pages/art1.html

Under the guise of freeing the slaves, what the wording really meant was that
anyone born in the US AFTER the adoption of the 14th Amendment was no
longer considered a sovereign and just a citizen. Just as with all the legal
manipulations that our corrupt legislature has done under each and every
president since and including Reagan, the legislature didn’t want to be bound
by any pesky restrictions that put the sovereign rights of citizens over that of
those in government.

The whole issue of sovereignty is a marvelous one, particularly in the newly
formed United States where, AT THAT TIME, people had the same rights as
kings ..... only their only subjects were themselves, and they had exclusive
rights to determine what was best for them provided that they didn’t interfere
with the rights of fellow sovereigns. It was a beautiful concept, really, but this
is what happens when you get banking interests gnawing away at the integrity
of our politicians.

Being a “sovereign” has a much higher standing than just being a mere
“person” born in the United States.

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By archivesDave, July 12, 2010 at 6:47 am Link to this comment

Litlbludot:
If you do a simple Google search: “American Revolution” + “3 percent”, I think u will find a very comprehensive menagerie of explanation located there within the first few selections.  Here is one of the links:
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/02/what-is-three-percenter.html
I do have to agree with you that ‘they’ have the media, govt, technology, and military on their side
right now and to underscore this, I just witnessed
a youtube clip of Jesse Ventura discussing HAARP
which blew my mind.

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By archivesDave, July 12, 2010 at 6:27 am Link to this comment

BR549:
Personal sovereignty and the Constitution: Please elaborate…
Since we ARE the govt or supposed to be, we can, nor should ever be above the govt from my perspective.
What am I missing here?
“All rights reserved”?  Continue on please.

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By BR549, July 12, 2010 at 4:34 am Link to this comment

achivesdave,
Relative to sovereignty, most citizens of the US do NOT have that distinction. They
are subjects, not sovereigns. That’s one aspect of the Constitution that needs
addressing ASAP, and as a result of that, those citizens are no longer above the
government.

If you ever get arrested BE SURE to state that you reserve ALL your rights.
Remember that little catch phrase “All Rights Reserved”. Yeah, that one. That’s
sufficient.

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By Litl Bludot, July 12, 2010 at 2:55 am Link to this comment

Archivedave,

re. the 3 percent assertion.  Please document.  If true, it provides a bit of hope,
although, fighting in the 18th and even 20th century may be a bit more
dangerous for those who are willing to risk there lives by confronting a
pervasive, ruthless, technological, brainwashing and ruthless adversary.  The
media was not controlled, nor did we have a psychically abused population. 
But, still, 3 percent may be conceivable.

As for the hope that “conservatives” and those of us who still can be rational
will eventually join together,  it is indicative of a lack of understanding of the
basic problem we face, as a species, which depends on a biosphere planet that
humans are destroying for “money” and “power”.  In short, the evangelized
reality of capitalism is toxic to the real reality of our biosphere.  But, good luck
with the 3 percent.

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By ofersince72, July 12, 2010 at 1:06 am Link to this comment

I just wash coconuts.

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By archivesDave, July 11, 2010 at 8:31 pm Link to this comment

BR549
I truly want to believe that we remain united but there certainly do seem to be a hell of a lot of brickbats being thrown by all sides today.
Obfuscation and chaos continue to escalate in line with the Manly Hall/Global Elitist protocol.
I thoroughly agree the Constitution is the one foundational instrument on which we should all stand
but changes/ amendments will soon have to be made in
order to restore citizen sovereignty and reign in
unlimited corporatist campaign financing as well as
lobbying. 
SHAME on the Supreme Court and their treasonous decision siding with Citizens’ United.  Even the Republicans and Libertarians will one day rue the
day of that calamitous decision.

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By archivesDave, July 11, 2010 at 8:15 pm Link to this comment

MarthaA:
I appreciate the effort that you went to on the essay but now I would ask you to summarize everything in a paragraph of your own words as well as giving us
a brief critique.

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By BR549, July 11, 2010 at 7:30 pm Link to this comment

Re:  Lawrence Baker, July 11 at 10:27 pm

Lawrence, great words. I’m not sure how many of the readers here are familiar
with the Oathkeepers organization. While it has been represented at some of
the Tea Party meetings, as far as I am aware, it has tried to stay away from
individual political ideologies and stick solely to Constitutional issues. All active
and veteran military can join, along with law enforcement; those who have
previously sworn an oath to defend the Constitution.

Despite the differences that some of us may share here on these blogs, we
really need to emphasize the one thing we really do have in common and it’s
that Constitution. It’s like a social cement for all those who go to the trouble to
read it. Of course, Obama and most of the legislature are praying that the
average blue collar meatball is more enthralled with the ball game games than
understanding what his rights actually are.

As much as this treasonous bunch in Washington would do to undermine what
our country once was, we are still united as a people ........

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By Lawrence Baker, July 11, 2010 at 6:27 pm Link to this comment

Archive Dave: Yes Dave, you are on to it; 3 % political activism of the population is all that is needed to carry the will of the angry majority.

90% of any battle is being sure of your commitment to your cause.

Our cause is our Constitution, Independence, Democracy and Freedom vs. the Totalitarian New World Order of the Multinational Corporate Empire.

We are committed and therefore unified in our just cause and unwavering. Therefore, we stand united and have already won 90% of the battle.The other 10% is strategy and engagement.

The battle field is here at home, so you don’t have to go anywhere; the battle is coming to you.

2010 is a very fast pace year with multiple attacks and no sign of abating; fight back with the truth and demand Justice.

Contribute what you can, with what ability you have, within the circumstances you live in.

In fact, the enemy controlled Media is blaring propaganda daily. Faux News, CNN, Limbaugh, Beck—“ALL”—of the Main Media networks are under enemy control.

Their propaganda purpose in Fascism is to keep people from addressing the real truth and confuse issues.
Remember that 90 % of the battle is your commitment to cause. This is how a few Fascist control millions of people.

Our first objective is to build force.

We do that by asking citizens around us to make a commitment to our Representative Democratic Republic which bodes our Democracy, Independence and Freedom.

Millions of Americans are sworn to defend that oath!

Remember many people are brainwashed and in a daze and unsure of purpose, you will need to pull them out of the fog and stand them up.

The tea party is full of pissed off, substandard educated Americans who are confused about what is happening and what is at stake.

The paid propagandist keeps them confused and misdirected.

The Big Money enemy propaganda is so pervasive that they set up false flag campaign sites and false organizations in order to ensnare and brainwash our population into submission.

Make no mistake about it the battle has just begun. Read Sun Tzu the great Chinese general and military strategist.

“If ignorant both of your enemy and yourself, you are certain to be in peril.”

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By archivesDave, July 11, 2010 at 3:23 pm Link to this comment

Lawrence Baker:
Here’s an excellent youtube reference site for Manly Hall who is considered the premier guru by many of the top elitists.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=manly+hall&aq=f

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By MarthaA, July 11, 2010 at 3:04 pm Link to this comment

Before all of this comes down, we must be about learning the difference between Conservatism and Liberal innovation which enfolds in Ralph Waldo Emerson’s, “The Conservative”:
http://www.emersoncentral.com/conservative.htm

The two parties which divide the state, the party of Conservatism and that of Innovation, are very old, and have disputed the possession of the world ever since it was made. This quarrel is the subject of civil history. The conservative party established the reverend hierarchies and monarchies of the most ancient world. The battle of patrician and plebeian, of parent state and colony, of old usage and accommodation to new facts, of the rich and the poor, reappears in all countries and times. The war rages not only in battle-fields, in national councils, and ecclesiastical synods, but agitates every man’s bosom with opposing advantages every hour. On rolls the old world meantime, and now one, now the other gets the day, and still the fight renews itself as if for the first time, under new names and hot personalities.

It is the primal antagonism, the appearance in trifles of the two poles of nature.

There is always a certain meanness in the argument of conservatism, joined with a certain superiority in its fact. It affirms because it holds. Its fingers clutch the fact, and it will not open its eyes to see a better fact. The castle, which conservatism is set to defend, is the actual state of things, good and bad. The project of innovation is the best possible state of things. Of course, conservatism always has the worst of the argument, is always apologizing, pleading a necessity, pleading that to change would be to deteriorate; it must saddle itself with the mountainous load of the violence and vice of society, must deny the possibility of good, deny ideas, and suspect and stone the prophet; whilst innovation is always in the right, triumphant, attacking, and sure of final success. Conservatism stands on man’s confessed limitations; reform on his indisputable infinitude; conservatism on circumstance; liberalism on power; one goes to make an adroit member of the social frame; the other to postpone all things to the man himself; conservatism is debonnair and social; reform is individual and imperious. We are reformers in spring and summer; in autumn and winter, we stand by the old; reformers in the morning, conservers at night. Reform is affirmative, conservatism negative; conservatism goes for comfort, reform for truth. Conservatism is more candid to behold another’s worth; reform more disposed to maintain and increase its own. Conservatism makes no poetry, breathes no prayer, has no invention; it is all memory. Reform has no gratitude, no prudence, no husbandry. It makes a great difference to your figure and to your thought, whether your foot is advancing or receding. Conservatism never puts the foot forward; in the hour when it does that, it is not establishment, but reform. Conservatism tends to universal seeming and treachery, believes in a negative fate; believes that men’s temper governs them; that for me, it avails not to trust in principles; they will fail me; I must bend a little; it distrusts nature; it thinks there is a general law without a particular application, — law for all that does not include any one. Reform in its antagonism inclines to asinine resistance, to kick with hoofs; it runs to egotism and bloated self-conceit; it runs to a bodiless pretension, to unnatural refining and elevation, which ends in hypocrisy and sensual reaction.

And so whilst we do not go beyond general statements, it may be safely affirmed of these two metaphysical antagonists, that each is a good half, but an impossible whole.
http://www.emersoncentral.com/conservative.htm

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By archivesDave, July 11, 2010 at 1:52 pm Link to this comment

Lawrence Baker:
Your response has given me a little more hope that things can be turned around and it brings to mind that only THREE percent of the Russian population
rose up against the czar to successfully overthrow
the regime and likewise it was only THREE percent of
the original states citizens who threw out the British.
I was finally able to watch the other eight clips of
Michael Ruppert’s recent interview and notice in clip #8, he discusses Dr Eliz Kubler-Ross’ stages of human reaction/behavior.  He mentions that most
of us are still in the denial stage but a few have
entered into the anger level.  Just maybe, if enough
of us move into that anger stage, we can get enough
unity between the Right and Left, Progressives and
Libertarians, etc. to form that THREE percent level.

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By Lawrence Baker, July 11, 2010 at 11:53 am Link to this comment

Archive Dave: I consider abionic oil creation and geodetic folding oil as empirically un-provable theories.

There was a time when I was learning the empirical basis of Geology that I thought that I might come to an understanding, but like Astronomy; the more I learned, the more I realized that I will never know and understand the incomprehensible.


My empirical knowledge ends up being a very small tool chest and beyond that there are more ambiguities and questions than there are answers.


The more I learn, the more I realize that I will never know Geology or Astonomy Truth because all the theories have massive empirical ambiguities.

You are correct in pointing out that “peak oil theory” is being used as fear propaganda by the mass media mind bending enemy.

Advancement in Science to out mode oil, of course, is the only answer and Science is kept under tight control and kept off the market. (first video)

http://wireofinformation.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/gulf-oil-spill-dr-steven-greer-speaks-out-on-the-gulf-oil-spill/

Here is a chilling statement by Zbigniew Brzezinski who with David Rockefeller is the architects for the New World Order.

“In earlier times, it was easier to control one million people than to physically kill one million people; today, it is infinitely easier to kill one million people than to control one million people.” That is a dangerous realization by the enemy and the oil catastrophe is a good example.

By the way, I mentioned mr. Ruppert to Sodium as a way to empathize with someone else’s life story. When we can empathize with someone else, we learn from their honest experience; we don’t necessarily have to agree with every point.

I watched the Alex Jones and David Icke video and I am as dedicated as they are in fighting the Treasonous enemy to the USA and mankind.

The USA is the launch pad and host for the multinational corporate parasite; Americans are the only ones who can bring the Traitors to Justice with what Liberties we have left.

This is my most resent blog.

Gulf Oil Supertanker Clean-Up Politics

Awaken to this: High ideals are nothing unless you have structure and unity.

The greatest form for peaceful political/economic change is our American Democracy.

American’s save our Representative Democratic Republic from the Totalitarian Multinational Corporate Empire first! They are the enemy to the World!

Bring the Traitors to Justice and regain our Democracy.
”One citizen - one vote”!
“Government for and by the People”
Not
“Government for and by the Totalitarian Multinational Corporations.”

The American People and our Constitution, which abodes our Freedom, Democracy and Independence is under attack by the Totalitarians who have already destroyed our Independence and have corrupted our branches of government!

Make a commitment to stand up today and demand Justice and the all powerful World Banksters and Big Oil will be controlled tomorrow!

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By archivesDave, July 10, 2010 at 9:11 pm Link to this comment

David Icke/Alex Jones recent interview:
The previous site address I listed has been pulled
but here is a new one, at least for now:
http://economycollapse.blogspot.com/search?q=david+icke

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By BR549, July 10, 2010 at 7:30 pm Link to this comment

Here is the first of eight sequential clips of Ruppert’s interview. Absolutely
wonderful. A must see for everyone; albeit a little long.
Part 1:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuBgzwSBcuw

Dave,
I’m still on the fence about this abiotic oil thing. If it does exist, that, too, will
have it’s own peak, or some angelic being would have to be continually filling
up the deeper reserves, ........ OR if abiotic oil DOESN"T exist, then we have
already hit peak oil. Personally, I’m having a hard time wrestling with the
concept that hydrocarbons could be “manufactured” deep inside the Earth on
their own; i.e. without the presence of decayed plant matter. If it does prove to
be true, I’d be curious to know how.

But as Ruppert points out, at what point do we realize that we are doing this
grand experiment the wrong way? Whether there is peak oil or not, oil is like
the forbidden apple; just because it’s there doesn’t mean we are supposed to
take it.

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By archivesDave, July 10, 2010 at 3:08 pm Link to this comment

Lawrence Baker:
Here’s a brand new interview on these issues between Alex Jones and David Icke:
http://economycollapse.blogspot.com/

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By archivesDave, July 10, 2010 at 2:46 pm Link to this comment

Lawrence Baker:
I had a chance to do some research on Michael Ruppert and appreciate your link referral which I also watched.  Unfortunately I was only allowed to watch the first part (one of eight), and try as I could, the other seven would not pull up and I couldn’t find them on the basic web site.  I did go to youtube and found considerable clips by/about him there which I found very interesting.
I note that he is an adamant supporter of peak oil
so have to assume that you are as well.
One of the, if not THE basic MO s of the Globalist
Corporatist Elites is the constant creation and manipulation of confusion and obfuscations as I know you are aware of. 
It has now become very apparent that the ‘tinfoil
hat crowd’ is quite split on this issue of abiotic
oil and I have to figure this is being purposely
undertaken at the Globalists’ behest.
As much as I admire Ruppert’s stand, I am presently
leaning away from peak oil: A parallel would be the
way the Rhodes/DeBeers elites have stashed and marketed diamonds down thru the years.

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By Lawrence Baker, July 7, 2010 at 10:10 pm Link to this comment

Sodium: On behalf of Professor Bloomfield and myself, I thank you for your effort; all anyone can do is to stand up and try, and you have been successful at that.

I just finished watching an 8 part interview on Global Research videos with an investigative reporter Michael Ruppert.

http://tv.globalresearch.ca/content/collapse-documentary-part-18

Mr. Ruppert is an extraordinary individual and as sharp as a tack. His insight into what to expect in the near future is as real as you can get; as an ex LA cop he builds an excellent case and I do agree with him. I hope you watch the series because I have a feeling he has some important answers for you as to what to expect in the near future.

There will be an Awaking, albeit a rude one and I hope you are properly prepared for what is to come with the inevitable collapse of the world economy.

Out of the ashes of the old, your generation can build toward a more humane future; the collapsing part though, is going to be real ugly but it will also be a time for families to reunite. Good luck and take care.

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By Sodium-Na, July 7, 2010 at 2:15 pm Link to this comment

For Lawrence Baker:

Lawrence,

The office of Presidential Correspondence does not accept more than 2,500 words per email. So I was compelled to delete segments of the copy I sent you a few hours ago,but the essence of what I sent you was clearly conveyed to the White House. Regrettably,I have received a FORMAL email as a reply,exactly as before,word by word by word that really said nothing of value.

I do feel totally defeated after all the attempts I have made to alter the attitude of those people who run “The Office of Presidential Correspondence”.

Sorry to say that the system is broken and beyond repair. I may decide to give up posting on Truthdig,since I do feel I was wasting my time that I could have used more productively doing something else. Most likely,I will decrease my postings gradually until I reach a point that makes me feel not missing the urge to post. However,Chris Hedges I will continue to read.

It was nice communicating with you,Lawrence. Your technological talents have been ignored at a time when it is needed most. And I am truly sorry to see that happens,here,in the United States of America,the only superpower that is being left in this miserable world. I am truly sorry. Take care.

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By MarthaA, July 7, 2010 at 11:14 am Link to this comment

Amy Goodman’s thread on Truthdig about “Deep Spill II” has a Satellite picture of the Gulf Coast.  BP can keep all the press at a distance of 3,000 feet to keep the public from knowing anything, but BP can’t shut down the satellite, and scientists can use the satellite images to make determinations, just like they do on the moon.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/commentreceived/if_only_information_flowed_as_freely_as_oil_20100706/

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By Sodium-Na, July 7, 2010 at 8:13 am Link to this comment

For Lawrence Baker:

Lawrence,

The following message will be email to the White House in the next two hours,giving you enough time to object,in case you have an objection. In case I do not hear from you in the next two hours,I will email the following message to the White House:

To: The Office of President Obama’s Correspondence:

Dear Sir/Madame,

Will you please pass the following message to President Obama,since he is the only one who has the power to force British Petroleum(BP)to accelerate the effort for finding a workable solution to the ominous environmental catastrophe developing in the gulf. Thank you:

Dear President Obama,

Your idealism tells me that you are just as concerned as I am about the OMINOUS ENVIRONMENTAL CATASTROPHE developing rapidly in the gulf. And since you have the legal and official power to compel British Petroleum(Bp)to open-up its doors to every scentific and engineering talent in the country to help in stopping and eleminating the horrible oil spill,I respectfully appeal to you to take tough measures against Bp,if they refuse to accelerate the efforts to stop the continuing disaster in the Gulf.

As far as I am concerned,as an American citizen and as a human being,what is going in the gulf is a real war whose result affects every human being in existence in Planet Earth. 

Based upon all of the foregoing,I appeal to you to consider forming a scientifically and technologically talented committee to study and evaluate the visibility of the following solution as proposed by Professor Louis Bloomfield of the Physics Deparment of University of Virginia:

Quote
=====

Stop the Gulf oil spill with heavy,streamlined objects

By Louis A. Bloomfield

Professor Physics,University of Virginia

The ongoing oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico is primarily a physics problem and,as such,should be susceptible to physics solution. But two of the simplest physics solutions-sealing the top of the well with the blowout preventer’s hydraulic valves and pumping dense liquid mud down the well hole(the “top kill”)-were both tried and failed for technical reasons. Propelled upward by a pressure in excess of 10(to the 8th exponent)(about 1,000 atmospheres) at the bottom of the 18,000-foot well hole,the oil has resisted efforts to stop its flow from the top. All hopes have now turnedto the relief wells which won’t be ready for the “bottom kill”(pumping dense drilling mud up the leaking well hole)for at least another month.

Unquote
========

Mr. President,

Since the article of Professor Bloomfield has diagrams that is impossible for me to form on the computer,I am compelled to respectfully ask you to click at the following link to get the rest of the article:

http://physicsfrontline.aps.org/2010/01/stop-th-oil-spill-with-heavy-streamlined-object/

The person who has called the attention to the importance of Professor Bloomfield’s article is Lawrence Baker who has been posting lately his blogs on Truthdig website. Whether Lawrence Baker is his real name or not I have no idea.

Lawrence Baker has been an inspiration for me to follow-up on the current oil spill in the Gulf. In case you decide to form such a committe as I have suggested in this email,I strongly suggest to include Lawrence Baker in such a committee. Based upon what I have read,so far,of the several blogs he posted on Truthdig website forum,he has sounded.at least to me,to be extremely knowledgeable on oil spills in the high seas.

Perhaps,Mr.Robert Scheer,the editor of Truthdig can help in locating Mr. Lawrence Baker for his cooperation with the committee,in case you decide to form it. 

Thank you,Mr.President,for just reading this message.

Respectfully submitted,
My real name(not Sodium-Na)

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By ThomasG, July 5, 2010 at 5:06 pm Link to this comment

On the news this evening, I heard a report about the “Sovereign Citizen’s Movement” and by the description given of the “Sovereign Citizen’s Movement” it sounded to me to be a description of “Libertarian” doctrine and dogma.

Would someone representative of Libertarianism make an answer to this post to either confirm or deny that “Libertarianism” and the “Sovereign Citizen’s Movement” are one and the same thing?

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/SCM.asp?xpicked=4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_movement

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2009/spring/return-of-the-sovereigns

http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/dpp/news/arkansas/070110-wm-shooters-claimed-to-be-“sovereign-citizens”

A Libertarian is far to the Right of the Conservative Right-Wing EXTREMIST Republicans along with the Dominionist Christian Fascists.

I have a book by Rodney Petersen, a self described Libertarian, “The Philosophy of a Peasant” that advocates population control by life termination and describes the philosophy of Libertarianism.  Libertarianism as described by Rodney Petersen does not seem like much of a solution to me that would have “constructive without destructive purpose” for society as a whole.

Because I am a part of the American Peasant Populace, I was and still am offended that Rodney Petersen called his book “The Philosophy of a Peasant” when in fact it is “The Philosophy of a Libertarian Corporatist”.

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By Sodium-Na, July 5, 2010 at 2:53 pm Link to this comment

Re : Lawrence Baker,July 5 at 1:55 pm.

Lawrence,

This is to let you know that I intend to refer the White House/President Obama to the article written by Professor Louis A. Bloomfield,Ph.D.,Physics Professor at University of Virginia,hoping(just hoping)that one of his aids at “The Office of President Correspondence” may wise-up and pass it to the President or to his Sciences/Tschnology advisor,if there is such a creature at the White House. I shall email you a copy,on this thread,of what I email the White House.

If you have any objection,please let me know,as promptly as possible-within the next 24 hours at the most. Thank you.

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By Sodium-Na, July 5, 2010 at 2:05 pm Link to this comment

Re: Lawrence Baker,July 1 at 12 am.

Lawrence,

The link,(http://www.usdebtclock.org),you so graciously provided in your above Re meant a great deal to me. It shows that the current TOTAL U.S. DEBT to be more than $54 Trillion. This figure has vindicated a figure I posted on one of the forums of TruthDig website two and one half year ago as $53 Trillion. Close enough. Most likely,it took two and one half year for the increase to accumulate from $53 to $54 Trillion. I just wonder when and how our children and grandchildren and even our great grandchildren can free themselves from such UNREAL financial burdens. Enslavement by other means? Yes,indeed.

Thank you for the vindication. Much appreciated.

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By Lawrence Baker, July 5, 2010 at 9:55 am Link to this comment

First the good news: Dr. Bloomberg, a Physics professor at Virginia University has come up with a viable solution to stop the well oil flow in the Gulf.

Dr. Bloomberg’s idea is superior to my idea for stopping the oil flow because it is easier and simpler; simple as in way of brilliance!!!

Here is the link.

http://physicsfrontline.aps.org/2010/07/01/stop-the-oil-spill-with-heavy-streamlined-objects/

The bad news: It’s raining oil and chemicals along the Mississippi Delta that is destroying crops and killing wildlife.

As I have mentioned before, the dispersant is a solvent that is deadly to our ecology. This is indeed, Genocide! Yet, they continue to use the dispersant rater than clean up the oil before it reaches shore!

Nationalize BP’s assets along with Goldman Sachs and the Federal Reserve System!!

There is a news media blackout so you will not hear about this on main stream media but there are rumors that the Gulf seaboard will soon be evacuated to FEMA camps.

Here are some links.

http://vodpod.com/watch/3866508-youtube-urgent-gulf-oil-spill-causing-toxic-rain-killing-crops

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4805399/oil_rain_in_louisiana_bp_oil_leak_rain/

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=0dqU1O9pv4c&feature=related

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By archivesDave, July 3, 2010 at 1:31 am Link to this comment

Ofersince:
Don’t be gone TOO long….I really don’t think u can.
Too much intellectual stimulation and excitement going on here ‘in the back forty’.
When u get a chance, go over to Hedge’s column on Greece.  It’s still going and G. W. Hitler is carrying on.

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By archivesDave, July 3, 2010 at 1:18 am Link to this comment

Lawrence Baker:
I would very much appreciate your comments and research on the validity of abiotic oil.
I’m leaning strongly in that direction, at least for
the oil at depths beyond 12,000 ft.
If you have some links in mind, (pro and con), I would like to peruse them.

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By ofersince72, July 2, 2010 at 11:23 pm Link to this comment

Dave.. At least I found out why you are so
      knowledgable about hayseed.

      later….very much later !!!!

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By Lawrence Baker, July 2, 2010 at 10:37 pm Link to this comment

Donald Nygaard: Your whine has not changed one bid. You do not address the subject matter of the oil catastrophe because you are unqualified and you chastise others who address the issues. You contribute nothing. You continue on with your scattered elitist dogma thinking instead of logical progressive thinking.

Norm Chomsky was a linguist and philosopher and I read his works at a very young age. His research laid down the framework for modern Neuro- Linguistics, one of my favorite subjects.

Mr. Chomsky treatises on propaganda and brainwashing wasn’t new, he just brought the subject to the forefront in the time frame of his life time.

Mr. Chomsky was a student of Logic, as I am, and he learned about linguistics, propaganda and Logic, like I did, from Aristotle in his little book titled Aristotelian Logic. (foundation for Occidental Science)


Mr. Chomsky’s Philosophy is the progression of the Enlightenment of Universal Awaking and thought. That awareness process is contemporary and hopefully as the World becomes smaller, humans will develop a new understanding of social and economic order.


In the United States we are stuck with Keynesian Economics (debt will make you rich) that has a death grip on America’s throat. The crazy for greed and power multinational corporate establishment will blow the World up rather than give in to the people.

Donald Nygaard said: “The personal appreciation of Chomsky’s impact on your constellation of thought is refreshing. I agree, he’s a great thinker, one of a select few capable of articulating a clear framework we ‘humans’ can use to find objective and moral truth, no matter what the issue or circumstance. This was my intent in mentioning him here. (no it isn’t)
Of course, Chomsky would be the first to say, “I’m not qualified to direct efforts necessary to address the gulf oil spill”. I expect no less of him.”

Your arrogant and ignorant attitude speaks for itself. Not only do you contradict yourself, you have the audacity to put words into a great mans mouth and speak for him in a contrary fashion. Mr. Nygaard, did you bump your head before you wrote that?

As a kindred spirit of Mr. Chomsky, I would venture to say that his response would be more like. “Let’s look at the facts and truth first and then logically apply science to solve the problem.” Somehow you think that Mr. Chomsky is as mentally limited as you are and because you think that; it must be so. That is very useful elite thinking if you live in closet.

Mr. Nygaard said: “I think you unfairly denigrated my systems mindset without any knowledge of my perspective.”

I looked at the standard corporate structure from both your citations and I didn’t see your picture or name anywhere.

Mr. Nygaard said: “I did, however, contribute as part of a team of scientifically-minded people to an enterprise that designed and delivered life-saving therapies to millions (and the firm made billions in the process). I’ll take solace in knowing I’m doing my part for truth.”

Tsk, tsk, where is your citation for that or did you just make that up?

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By Lawrence Baker, July 2, 2010 at 10:25 pm Link to this comment

Part 2.
Mr. Nygaard said: “My qualifications: Retired Quality Systems and Regulatory Affairs in FDA-regulated industry”

So, what do you do for the last 20 years, you haven’t designed or published any Quality Systems Regulatory Affairs papers that I could find, so you are not an academic; were you an office manager or a paper processor in your limited world?

Mr. Nygaard said: “Can it possibly be true that so many conspiracies exist with only an ‘enlightened’ few being capable of detecting the plot? Yes, cynical people manipulate circumstances to their advantage, e.g., Tonkin Gulf, Weapons of Mass Destruction. However, these examples do not serve to prove conspiracy.

Mr. Nygaard, you have a very nasty habit of contradicting yourself. Is it because you think everyone is so stupid that no one notices?

Have you heard the conspiracy theory about the multi-trillion dollar world wide financial melt down was manipulated by Goldman Sachs and the Federal Reserve System and that they are owned by the same principles? Have you heard that the debt was transferred to the American taxpayer?

I have to admit, it does sound like a preposterous conspiracy, how could something like that happen when we have such Patriotic and observant people like you around to object. Maybe, you were just distracted by Faux News.

I will bet you never even heard of the Trilateral Commission or the World Trade Organization that destroyed our Independence and sovereignty as a Nation. Think about that July 4th. Marine.

Mr. Nygaard said: “Lawrence, this is for you: Economic theory is, in my opinion, more philosophy than science. Philosophy is not a bad thing, except that it can lead to a false sense of certainty, despite facts to the contrary (BTW: Faulty logic piled atop a false premise seems to describe much of economic theory to me, especially when it comes to unfettered free-market capitalism).

Finally, you have said something that makes a little sense! But alas, “Free-market capitalism” is Adam Smith and “markets free to multinational corporatism” is Keynesian, so again, you do not understand the subject matter.

Mr. Nygaard said: “Let me ask you this: What is the role of information in a market economy? Another question: Could geopolitics be viewed as a marketplace?

I would discuss these issues with you but you have demonstrated that you have very little knowledge about financial systems or theory and that is not the forum here.

Mr. Nygaard said: “Mr. Scheer poses a question intended to get at how we’re manipulated to fall in line with elite viewpoints (e.g., corporatism) by issuing yet another ‘war’ cry. What’s going on in the gulf is not war. It’s the result of human decision-making writ upon the fallibility of humans.”

The 11 workers who were killed, were ordered from BP headquarters to do procedures that they knew were inherently wrong, but after protest followed by company threats, proceeded to get themselves killed. No investigation, crime scene unsecured, no records recovered and no arrest made.

Oh, No! that must be another conspiracy theory; those men probably just got tired of living and decided to commit suicide!

Again, Mr. Ngaard what is your purpose for posting here other then looking for a place to take a dump?

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By Donald Nygaard, July 2, 2010 at 9:30 am Link to this comment

Dear Mr. Baker,

I fear you took my comments a bit too personally. Are you a geologist? Even if you’re not, much good science is done by curious private citizens.

As a scientist, please consider whether your research citations move in the direction of objective v. subjective proof. I followed a number of them. Bloomberg news seemed most trustworthy, not because I trust them without question, or that they provided reference to peer-reviewed science, but because they adhere to journalistic principles like fact-checking. They pointed to Robert Bea, University of California, Berkeley, an actual engineer with experience (extensive) in the oil exploration field. He only provided ‘soundbite’ commentary on the gulf situation that could easily be misconstrued but it’s a step in the direction of objectivity. Other links you cite to self-referential blogs are not so credible. That’s all I’m saying.

Have you considered writing Professor Bea to discuss your findings and suggestions for a solution to the gulf oil spill? Have you sought peer-review for your research into the causes and solutions of the oil spill? Be bold! Go there! No one here can provide the feedback necessary to strengthen your arguments. Okay?

I think you unfairly denigrated my systems mindset without any knowledge of my perspective. Here’s one of many ‘systems’ viewpoints I’ve used extensively and found quite helpful. Check it out! Feel free to get back to me if you would like to discuss further. You know where to find me.

http://www.nist.gov/baldrige/publications/upload/2009_2010_Business_Nonprofit_Criteria.pdf

Here’s another one. Although specifically aimed at medical devices, the principles of risk management are universally applicable to pretty much any complex enterprise. As informed citizens, I believe we must demand the use of such techniques (of course, that may require regulation).

http://www.isosert.ru/isosert_iso_14971.pdf

I already pointed to Noam Chomsky, which pretty much demolishes Mr. Dave’s assertions I’m a tool of the mainstream media.

Seriously,

Give me a shout and we’ll talk rationally.

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By Donald Nygaard, July 2, 2010 at 8:27 am Link to this comment

Dave, Lawrence:

A bit touchy, aren’t we? Also, all over the map. I sense an underlying dogma driving your viewpoint, i.e., anyone who questions is an enemy that must be attacked with slurs and deflections from self-examination. Your responses prove my point.

How dare you make assertions for which you have no basis in fact? I never worked for the government, except as a U.S. Marine. I did, however, contribute as part of a team of scientifically-minded people to an enterprise that designed and delivered life-saving therapies to millions (and the firm made billions in the process). I’ll take solace in knowing I’m doing my part for truth.

Dave: Not everything is a conspiracy (you may wish to explore the psychological aspects of conspiracism). Sometimes bad things happen, even when good people are involved. Sadly, many people conflate the arc of human experience with some grand conspiracy. Can it possibly be true that so many conspiracies exist with only an ‘enlightened’ few being capable of detecting the plot? Yes, cynical people manipulate circumstances to their advantage, e.g., Tonkin Gulf, Weapons of Mass Destruction. However, these examples do not serve to prove conspiracy, only opportunism within a broader context. I’ll not waste my time trying to sway you from closely held beliefs. It’s not worth it. The real world is more interesting to me.

Lawrence, this is for you: Economic theory is, in my opinion, more philosophy than science. Philosophy is not a bad thing, except that it can lead to a false sense of certainty, despite facts to the contrary (BTW: Faulty logic piled atop a false premise seems to describe much of economic theory to me, especially when it comes to unfettered free-market capitalism).

I do, however, believe that absolute power corrupts and I see increasing absolutism in many areas of public life. Let’s start with corporate domination of the decision-making apparatus. Actually, corporations are one example where I see the possibility for real conspiracy (e.g., collusion, bribery, price-fixing, insider trading, etc), certainly much more likely than some of the wilder theories extant.

Let me ask you this: What is the role of information in a market economy? Another question: Could geopolitics be viewed as a marketplace?

Mr. Scheer poses a question intended to get at how we’re manipulated to fall in line with elite viewpoints (e.g., corporatism) by issuing yet another ‘war’ cry. What’s going on in the gulf is not war. It’s the result of human decision-making writ upon the fallibility of humans. The fact that we act in predictable and manipulable ways explains a lot. What troubles me is that we all play the fool upon occasion, some more than others.

Given this predisposition, I felt it reasonable to bring Chomsky’s theories of institutional analysis to the table. Nothing more than that. I’m sorry if I’ve offended you. Keep up the good work!

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By archivesDave, July 1, 2010 at 5:57 pm Link to this comment

Donald Nygaard”
I certainly wish I was half as knowledgeable about the issue as Lawrence; He has clearly explained many points that have crossed my mind about this crucial issue.
He IS sticking to the point and I also agree with him that it is folks like you who ARE the problem.

And on the issue of ‘conspiracies’.., you probably
belong to the masses who still think we didn’t start the Spanish Am. War, the Viet Nam War, and Oswald was the sole assassin.
Folks, Warning: Mr Nygaard is a perfect example of what you get when you’re absorbed by the MSM.

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By Lawrence Baker, July 1, 2010 at 4:20 pm Link to this comment

Donald Nygaat said: “As a systems thinker, I’m at a loss to understand the ‘context’ within which we’re discussing the “Rape and Spillage” article.”

Your problem is you are not a systems thinker, you’re an elite and aloof thinker, the greatest system for thought and progression is Logic (the foundation of all Science) and you don’t know your “Ps” from your “Qs”.

“My qualifications: Retired Quality Systems and Regulatory Affairs in FDA-regulated industry”
Your qualifications are typical for a no nothing, political appointed government drone. You are not qualified to comment because you know nothing about the subject matter and have not taken the time to do the research.  You just scoff and stick your nose in the air!

Your assumption that because you don’t know anything in your elusion of greatness, than no one else could possibly know anything is laughable.

You remind me of the blind view that the Federal Reserve and the rest of the qualified economist take who refuses to look at economic reality, but insist that their economy model is working.

Guys like you never contribute anything, you just stopped by to take a little poop and now you feel a lot better about yourself.

As far as criminal conspiracy facts is concerned. Put up or shut up! Refute anything I have to say instead of whining about it with your feeble drone thinking.

Who is responible for the USA demise? it’s government drones like you!

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By Donald Nygaard, July 1, 2010 at 2:50 pm Link to this comment

Sodium-Na, June 28 at 9:18 pm #

Sodium,

The personal appreciation of Chomksy’s impact on your constellation of thought is refreshing. I agree, he’s a great thinker, one of a select few capable of articulating a clear framework we ‘humans’ can use to find objective and moral truth, no matter what the issue or circumstance. This was my intent in mentioning him here.

Of course, Chomsky would be the first to say, “I’m not qualified to direct efforts necessary to address the gulf oil spill.” I expect no less of him. It seems appropriate each of us here would ‘own’ up to our qualifications in the matter. My qualifications: Retired Quality Systems and Regualtory Affairs in FDA-regulated industry ($4 billion annual revenue).

Notwithstanding the preceding, Chomsky’s scholarship deserves wide berth in our exploration of the topic, “Rape and Spillage.” What questions would Chomsky pose? What evidence do we consider admissible? Who makes that judgement? In other words, are we holding to the highest standards of debate? What burden of proof do we apply before becoming convinced of one argument, or another?

Okay! I have that off my chest.

Some here would suggest we have it within our community grasp to analyze and fully understand all aspects that caused or contributed to the gulf oil spill. Others would say we have the scientific wherewithall to prescribe definitive cause, effect, and corrective action to an unprecedented fiasco. I doubt either proposition.

It’s not our role, unless scientifically qualified, to be assigning physical cause and effect of the oil spill. Based upon what I see here, none of us has access to information necessary to have more than an opinion, i.e., most (all?) references to external information point only toward opinon, not objectively quantifiable, peer-reviewed science. We must set a higher burden of proof.

NA: You cited three postings by Mr. Baker for further exploration. I checked them but remain unconvinced he has more than a novice theory of what’s acutally at work in the gulf, let alone a solution to the problem.

We can, however, have an opinion on the socio-politico-economic issues underlying the present spectacle. Unfortunately, it’s unlikely we’ll come to a more objective understanding of what brought us to these disastrous circumstances, let alone the ‘right’ answer for going forward as a society. Sadly, discussions of this nature quickly acquire religious overtones tinged with irrational theories of conspiracy.

As a systems thinker, I’m at a loss to understand the ‘context’ within which we’re discussing the “Rape and Spillage” article. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t asking us to contemplate the solution(s) to the immediate, nor the long-term effects of the oil spill. My sense is that Mr. Scheer was asking us to think more deeply on how we’re manipulated by images of ‘war as the answer’ to ills confronting us. Everything else appears tangential to me.

Let’s stick to the topic.

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By BR549, July 1, 2010 at 5:15 am Link to this comment

Lawrence,
I think you misunderstood me. I have well understood all the points of the
intentional collapse for a while now. It’s like, how far back does the problem go?
Bush43, Clinton, Bush41, Reagan, Nixon, the assassination of JFK, FDR, Wilson and
the Fed, the adoption of the AMA, Waterloo, Jesus complaining about the Rabbis’
lust for power. It’s all been a test for humanity, and so far we keep getting an “F”
and get sent back time and time again.

Like your posts, though.

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By Lawrence Baker, July 1, 2010 at 12:37 am Link to this comment

MarthaA: We had a deterrent to War and that was the draft system where all available male citizens of 18 and older were required to serve their country in the military.

In the old military a soldier was taught what he is fighting for; our Democracy, Independence, and Constitution (government for and by the people)

The draft, a wise and enduring lesson taught by the Romans and embraced by Thomas Jefferson that lasted for centuries.

Rich son or poor son we all had to serve and rich mothers thought twice before they sent little Johnny off to War. And the taxes to pay for War were a major deterrent to sending Johnny off to War.

It had been a recognized fact for centurys that a Nation can’t fight an extended War by taxing the population.

Bush, Rove, Big Oil and World Banksters criminals changed all that and pulled it off with fraud and corruption of government complete with a brainwashing controlled mass media. Look at, smoke and mirrors, Faux News today! They never address the truth!

Today, we have a National Guard which normally would not be in foreign combat. “National Guard” in the old Army guarded the home Nation (National Security). Guardsman have been forced to serve in foreign campaign way beyond their service time.

The other half of the Army is made up of “Regulars” people who sign up to serve.

We have about 98,000 troops engaged that are bound to the Geneva Convention. We also employ about 100,000 mercenaries (hired killers) who really are not bound by the Geneva War Convention Articles.

Most every one of our Congress representatives are complicit war criminals and corrupt to the bone.

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By archivesDave, June 30, 2010 at 11:36 pm Link to this comment

Lawrence Baker:
No one on Truthdig has said it all better than you!

Any office that u’d like to run for, just let me know
and I’ll bend over backwards campaigning for you!!!
Perhaps we can get Mr.Scheer to hire you for a weekly column here on Truthdig….What say ye all? 

Mr Scheer, I hate to say it but I’ll read Mr.Baker’s column before I’ll read yours.

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By MarthaA, June 30, 2010 at 8:59 pm Link to this comment

Lawrence Baker, July 1 at 12:00 am,

I agree with your post.  If the passive populace would have risen up and stopped the wars, there could have been some hope, but the war waste continues on credit.  The populace are going to have a rude awakening, and all the populace who think they are middle class will find out just how middle class they really are.  It isn’t going to be pretty and many will die.

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By Lawrence Baker, June 30, 2010 at 8:00 pm Link to this comment

Achivedave: I garnered the information off of the internet Googling “gulf oil supertanker clean up” and selecting the latest news. The information was a company press release and all the repeats were basically the same thing.

Br549: I thought I made myself clear. Genocide and economic collapse is the objective. Big Oil and World Banksters have broken America’s back from within by corrupting our once Democratic government.

The World Trade Center attack was an inside job (USA), in particular, the collapse of building # 7 which also destroyed all of the criminal “Enron” records.

Watch the short video series “Coincidence?” 1 to 19 and draw your own conclusion from the irrefutable facts and evidence that are presented.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odp1FO0Vmuw

The 9/11 Commission Report was nothing more than a cover up of the true perpetrators and the justification for war, resulting in the death of millions of innocent people that continues today.

The 9 years of War were not financed by tax. The wars are financed by debt to the World Banksters and are designed to bankrupt our US Treasury and to enslave citizens to National debt.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Our National debt is nearing 100% of GDP, not from social programs like Social Security, but because of War and World Bankster bail out.
The same high criminals who planned the World Trade Center bombings also planned the world largest multi-trillion dollar fraud, financial crises, and WORLD BANKSTER bail out in order to bankrupt our US Treasury.

The world financial crisis didn’t happen by coincidence.

In a few months, America will be in default to the Totalitarian World Banksters along with 19 European countries. The criminals destroy social programs, Democracy, steal government resources and assets, and force austerity measures to tax and enslave the people. Greece is a good example.
The criminal World Banksters want money,
ownership and control world wide.

The lust for greed is really an insane lust for power.

The same high criminals that planned the World Trade Center bombings have, in the name of “Free Trade” and “Globalization”, moved the USA industrial base and technology (American jobs) to China and other foreign countries (except for the Military / Industrial Complex).

In the next two months, 10 million Americans will finally run out of extended employment benefits; there is no economic recovery- that is a mathematical impossibility!

There is no social safety net in place for these victimized American families. By evil plan, those industries and jobs are gone forever and that didn’t happen by coincidence!

The same high criminals behind the World Trade Center bombings also planned and are executing the ongoing oil attack on the American People as a way for economic and ecological genocide. In short, our government, Big Oil and World Banksters have destroyed our Democracy and are out to kill and enslave us.

The terrorist attacks and genocide have been planned; FEMA camps are set up and ready for the survivors (slaves).

What better way to compete with the rest of the world then to have prison labor? It’s the latest moneymaker!

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By archivesDave, June 30, 2010 at 5:41 pm Link to this comment

Lawrence Baker:
It’s exciting to know that the Taiwanese have somehow been able to break the BP/Obama blockade of sorts and
get to work.
I’m wondering about the stats you list tho:  You state ‘A Whale’ can process 21 million gal. of seawater a day and get 15 million gallons of oil out of that.  I realize the water is contaminated but didn’t know it was up to that extent yet.

Thanks a lot for the heads up on The Centre For Research On Globalisation.  I will most definitely get into that one extensively.

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By BR549, June 30, 2010 at 4:47 pm Link to this comment

Lawrence,
Thanks for that globalresearch link.

Just a thought, but might one think that the Dutch and other tankers were turned
away because BP would have basically had to give away whole tankers of free oil
on a free ocean (er, gulf)?

Would BP’s executives, still circling around in their corporate clusterfuck, be
wondering how to recoup there losses while their competition walks away with all
the bacon? Better the beaches and the dispersant get the oil than the
competition. Whaddya think?  :op

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By Lawrence Baker, June 30, 2010 at 4:12 pm Link to this comment

Sodium, thanks again for the support. One of my favorite contemporary author and researcher is Andrew Gavin Marshall who has recently released a book along with noted economist Michel Chaossudovsky entitled “The Global Economic Crisis: The Great Depression of the XXI Century,”

Mr. Marshall’s full documentation and detail makes for a long read but it is worth it for the exceptional insight. In his latest series titled “Revolution and Repression in America” Part 1; skip to the last section entitled “Power of Ideas” and you will find that he addresses the economic issues of many of the posters on this site who are looking for clarification as to who we are and where we are going.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19951

On another positive note, I would like to add this oil spill news.

The out of control oil well has been gushing about 2 ½ million gallons of oil per day for the last 70 days. The uninvited Taiwan oil recovery supertanker “A Whale” has arrived on the oil gusher site. A Whale reportable can process about 21 million gallons of sea water and oil per day, extracting about 15 million gallons of oil. A Whale owners claim the vessel can collect as much oil, in less than two days, as the entire recovery effort has recovered in 70 days!

Reportedly, four sets of modern Dutch skimmers were sent and are supposedly working on American tankers on the oil site yet; I can’t find any trace of reports of them in operation? (one week ago) They remain shrouded in secrecy.

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By ThomasG, June 30, 2010 at 11:00 am Link to this comment

archivesDave, June 30 at 1:56 pm

“I’ve attempted to document my positions to the best of my ability but if there are specific ones u’d like me to further clarify and support, please elaborate and I will respond.” —archivesDave June 30 at 1:56 pm

Libertarianism as God’s Divine Will implemented by imperfect man in contrast to socialism would be a good place to start.

So far as I can determine Austrian School of Economics Libertarianism is representative of a “Stone Age Economy”.  The people in the Stone Age practiced socialism for the communal benefit of the collective.

The Stone Age Economy gave way to the Bronze Age Economy, and the Bronze Age Economy gave way to the Iron Age Economy, and they all practiced the same Libertarian Barter Economy that was later represented by the Triangular Trade and the China Trade; how on earth do you expect a “Stone Age Economy” that functions in the same manner as the Triangular Trade and the China Trade to be of benefit for the greater good of the populace in the present 21st Century Modern Economy of the United States and the World?

Also, when one decries socialism, one decries the “tree of life” upon which Capitalism is attached like a parasite and that brings the dead zombie of Privatized Capitalism back to life with socialized resources every time it cyclically dies.  It is contradictory reasoning to decry socialism that cyclically recapitalized Privatized Capitalism and support Libertarian Privatized Capitalism as a “Stone Age” remedy that cannot serve the best interests of the current population of both the United states and the World, and has only the capacity to serve individual self interest of those who would live off of communal interests as a parasite, much the same as was done with the Triangular Trade and the China Trade.

To take these positions and then want to be treated as if you have something to say that is either meaningful or as an expression of your will to try to find your own way is a ludicrous position that is not worthy of being treated as anything other than foolishness.

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By archivesDave, June 30, 2010 at 9:56 am Link to this comment

ThomasG:
I feel reasonable grounded in my positions but at the same time, as I previously stated, I don’t have all the pieces of the puzzle and always searching for more from as many substantial sources as possible, right, left, Progressive, Libertarian, Green, Conservative, Marxist, Christian, etc.
I’ve attempted to document my positions to the best
of my ability but if there are specific ones u’d like me to further clarify and support, please elaborate and I will respond.

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By ThomasG, June 30, 2010 at 9:38 am Link to this comment

archivesDave, June 30 at 12:09 pm & archivesDave, June 30 at 11:57 am,

When one advocates a position then one must be prepared to clarify what that position is.

If you are trying to find your way, why do you advocate positions that you cannot support?

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By archivesDave, June 30, 2010 at 8:09 am Link to this comment

ThomasG:
Furthering our discussion, this reminds me of the
twelve blind men feeling around the elephant and attempting to describe it.
It also reminds me of a jigsaw puzzle where you may have a few of the pieces and I may have some.  This is the brilliance of the internet where we can mine all the pieces to solve the puzzle with the cooperation of thousands or millions of others.

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By archivesDave, June 30, 2010 at 7:57 am Link to this comment

ThomasG:
I am truly attempting to extricate myself from the abyss of compartmental marginalizing that you seem
to remain steeped in. (there I go judging you…)
Why oh why do we always feel we have to make judgments on people and subjects without truly attempting to understand them?
So yes, I admit to being somewhat hypocritical too.

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By ThomasG, June 30, 2010 at 7:03 am Link to this comment

archivesDave, June 29 at 7:33 pm & archivesDave, June 29 at 6:14 pm,

You go from advocating a Stone Age Libertarian Economy to advocating the doctrine of a John Bircher, and you expect to be taken seriously???? ——that is not going to happen.

If you want to be taken seriously, you will have to get serious and separate yourself from the position of the fool at the bottom of the hill listening to and following the “fool on the hill” preaching to the fools below.

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By archivesDave, June 30, 2010 at 2:08 am Link to this comment

Worthy of Note:
Almost every one of the Valdez clean up crew is now dead:

    <http://endoftheamericandream.com>

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By ofersince72, June 29, 2010 at 9:48 pm Link to this comment

ENERGY BLUES AND OIL brian tokar…Z Mag Jan. 1991

“......domestic oil drilling continues despite the low productivity of U.S. wells.  This country has only about
3 percent of known reserves yet huses two-thirds of the
world’s nearly one million oil wells.  Rather than
necessitating additional domestic drilling-at the expecse of places likes the California Coast and the Arctic
National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska-the present crisis has merely raised oil prices to the point where marginally
accessible, short-term supplies can now be tapped profitably. As we will see below, a wide variety of
simple technologies are now available that can free up
vast amounts of energy through conservation and efficiency
measures for less than we are currently paying for oil
and electricity. Instead of further enriching the oil
companies, the crisis in the Middle East could provide a
political impetus to drastically reduce overall energy
use, thereby reducing air pollution and curtailing the
carbon dioxide emmssions that threaten global climate
change.  Even if the price of oil were to return to the
levels of early last summer, the ecological consequences of continued overuse are sure to spell catastrophe….”

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By archivesDave, June 29, 2010 at 3:33 pm Link to this comment

ThomasG:
Addendum to my comments on G Edward Griffin:
It is worthy to note that Griffin is one of a few who appear to have a comprehensive understanding of exactly how the Federal Reserve was conceived and birthed.
If you haven’t perused his book, “The Creature From
Jekyll Island”, I would heartily recommend it.

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By archivesDave, June 29, 2010 at 2:14 pm Link to this comment

‘ThomasG:
Sooo John Dean was a follower of Nixon at one time.  That makes him suspect and we can’t trust what he says.
You appear to be in the same ‘ilk’ that I’ve been describing myself as coming from….Let’s see, “tweedle dee or tweedle dumb”, black or white, Conservative or Progressive.
Good grief, can’t we EVER throw the damn judgmental
shtick down and just try a trifle to get in the other guys shoes?

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By ThomasG, June 29, 2010 at 12:36 pm Link to this comment

archivesDave, June 28 at 11:28 pm,

As a reformed Conservative/Libertarian that is a follower of G. Edward Griffin, it sounds like, from the following wiki link, that your reform has taken you farther down the rabbit hole than you were as a Conservative/Libertarian, and I doubt that you will therefore be of much benefit to garth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Edward_Griffin

However, you can both commiserate and garth won’t have to talk to himself as a schitzoid avatar; perhaps you can give each other solace.

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By archivesDave, June 28, 2010 at 9:47 pm Link to this comment

Ofersince:
the youtube video clip link ending in Wyq has been removed…Do u have any other sources to see it or if u downloaded it, figure a way to post it for all of us
to see.
On the other hand, it is still a side issue and if you’d like an internationalist’s incisefull comprehensive perspective, pull up Salbucci on youtube.

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By ofersince72, June 28, 2010 at 8:59 pm Link to this comment

I do not see the transformation of the U.S. economy
from that of war & conquest , militiary industrial
complex economy coming from inside America. I look for
reasons to be optomistic that a transformation of this
economy will take place through a political process from
within, but see very little reason to be such an
optomist.

I also find it strange that only about 500 Americans
have viewed the day after junk shot failure video of
the oil “leak” in the Gulf.

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By archivesDave, June 28, 2010 at 7:28 pm Link to this comment

ThomasG:
Thanx a lot for your sage comments.
As a former Conservative/Libertarian, I must agree, although I still follow the ilk of G Edward Griffin and learn much from them by keeping an open mind.
For those not up to speed on Sept 18, 2008, I would
highly recommend viewing Scheer’s video clip:
<http://www.truthdig.com/dig/item/20081108_financial_meltdown_101>

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By ThomasG, June 28, 2010 at 5:30 pm Link to this comment

Fat Freddy, June 17 at 10:53 pm,

So, Fat Freddy, your Austrian School of Libertarian Economics boils down to Laissez-nous-faire Economics of individual benefit derived from communal effort, right?

I believe that J. A. Shumpeter is the current incarnation of Austrian School Economics that was used by the Goldwater, Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II “Supply-Side” Trickle Down Crowd that led the U.S. Economy over the cliff on September 18, 2008, wasn’t he?

What are the objective standards and metrics of the Austrian School of Libertarian Economics, aside from the mumbo jumbo of subjective drivel in support of Laissez-nous-faire Economics as the economics of God’s Divine Will that should be left alone, because it is impossible to fathom God’s Divine Will and; therefore, so called “Free Market” of Laissez-nous-faire Privatized Capitalism should not be regulated or interfered with in any way——that worked out really well on September 18, 2008, didn’t it?  —NOT!!!

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By Sodium-Na, June 28, 2010 at 5:18 pm Link to this comment

Re: Donald Nyggard,June 28 at 11:18 am.

Donald,

Noam Chomsky is an outstanding theoretician thinker. I read several books authored by him. Three books of his impressed me the most:

~ The first book is “The Faithful Triangle”.
~ The Second book is “Hegemony Or Survival”.
~ The Third book is “Pirates & Emperors”.

I agree with most of what I read that was written by him. As a result I do hold him in high esteem.

However,when it comes finding a solution for the oil spill catastrophe that has taken place in the gulf,I bet my money on somebody like Lawrence Baker,not on Noam Chomsky. As I read every post posted on this thread sofar,I was/am fully convinced that Lawrence Baker is the most knowledgeable,technically,about oil spill in the seas I had/have the privilege of reading his technically enlightening posts. Please read the following posts of his as attestations to what I am saying here:

* By Lawrence Baker,June 19 at 8:24 pm.
* By Lawrence Baker,June 20 at 4:40 pm.
* By Lawrence Baker,June 23 at 11:35 pm.

After you finish reading the above posts,please read the links he has provided in each post. The link published about the oil tankers business in “Esquire magazine” is quite interesring.  It is in the second link cited above.

I have said it in earlier post and I am going to repeat what I said once more for those who really care very much to find a solution to the ominous disaster in the gulf: Lawrence Baker should be or rather must be in the middle of the struggle that is being going on in finding a solution to the oil spill catastrophe in the gulf. I am fully convinced that his technical knowledge and talents will contribute positively to finding a workable solution.

Through an email to President Obama,I suggested to him to get Lawrence Baker down to the gulf to help out in the effort being invested in finding a solution to the disaster. I only received,in return,a FORMAL email from Tne Office of President Correspondence. No body seems to care. It is most unfortunate.

What a waste of technical talent!!

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By ofersince72, June 28, 2010 at 5:14 pm Link to this comment

Dave&BR;,

I can’t quite make out what leak that video is showing,
it is similar to the leak I saw 28 May, and could very
well be the same one shot from a differnent angle,
but it is a lot of crude isn’t it?

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By archivesDave, June 28, 2010 at 4:52 pm Link to this comment

BR549:
Here, Here Bro…Thanks for the kudos.
To answer your last question, I think you pretty well covered it yourself there and surmise your question was rhetorical.
I note that some of us here truly do have open minds
and realize that so much of what we’ve been taught
(and still hold to), is so much BS.
The older I get, the more I realize how little I truly know to be Truth and continue to question my own views and beliefs even moreso.

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By BR549, June 28, 2010 at 10:03 am Link to this comment

Donald Nygaard, June 28 at 11:18 am #
“Wow! Are you guys still at it? I’m amazed at the number of tit-for-tat
messages with little coherence that fly around this comment site. Have any of
you noticed you’re arguing in an echo chamber? Perhaps it’s time to put this
thread out of our collective misery. Seriously! Nothing intelligent here.”

That’s the beauty of Truthdig’s having put that cute little checkbox under the
comment box; ..... anyone can decide to leave when the topic is no longer of
interest. In this case, people can also choose to keep coming back to complain
about why the discussion hasn’t been catering to their individual needs.

Personally, I feel ALL of the material has been relevant, (with a few departures),
but if the forces that created this debacle never get discussed because some
people only feel comfortable talking about the debacle itself, how are people
going to get a glimpse of a “larger picture” problem?

Had I been so afflicted with ADHD that I couldn’t stay focused on the larger
topic long enough to read Lawrence Baker’s, ofer’s and Dave’s input, I wouldn’t
have seen the videos that they had kindly posted.

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By ofersince72, June 28, 2010 at 9:16 am Link to this comment

a better link of 29 May

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgd8A7bwWyq

where is this leak from, it is not the leak
on the top of the BOP at the crimp

and it isn’t the end of the rizor

could be some part of the rizor, but could this pass
through the crimp?

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By ofersince72, June 28, 2010 at 7:49 am Link to this comment

My topic was the May 29, Oil leak in Gulf of Mexico @
6:15AM EDT…..

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By Donald Nygaard, June 28, 2010 at 7:18 am Link to this comment

Wow! Are you guys still at it? I’m amazed at the number of tit-for-tat messages with little coherence that fly around this comment site. Have any of you noticed you’re arguing in an echo chamber? Perhaps it’s time to put this thread out of our collective misery. Seriously! Nothing intelligent here.

Here are several items from Noam Chomsky’s Manufacturing Consent. These are techniques used to drive debate, oftentimes with intellectually dishonest intent.

1) Selection of topics
2) Distribution of concerns
3) Emphasis
4) Framing of issues
5) Filtering of information
6) Bounding of debate

For a more thoughtful perspective:

http://www.chomsky.info/

P.S. Ed Harges: The Oil Drum posting by “dougr” appears to be nothing more than one person’s unscientific opinion, i.e., a modicum of research fails to turn up any corroborating discussion, not even the editors of The Oil Drum touched it.

P.P.S. Night-Gaunt: Thanks for the Pacifica reference. I’ve been listening to Pacifica for balance in media since the early 80’s. (See the Chomsky items listed above.) As I suspect to be your practice, please continue to apply them equally to all news sources and discussion groups. Cheers!

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By BR549, June 28, 2010 at 5:03 am Link to this comment

ofersince72,
While I agree that the Blame Obama poll was a bit tacky, I look at how this has
unfolded from a reverse perspective, and that can show us what should have
happened.

If Obama were not in Goldmann-Sachs’ back pocket and catering to corporate
and banking interests, and he were performing his duties as an elected
president, and if he were actually using the Constitution as the basis for his
performance, he would have allowed the states to do anything and everything
in their power to help stave off the onslaught of oil. What is missing in this
argument is the continual onslaught of the federal government in trying to
squash state sovereignty rights, and instead of Obama using his office to
reinforce that aspect of our Constitution, each of these states will become
sacrificial pawns in this huge global power chess game, as Bush41 so
compassionately condescendingly referred to as “The New World Order”. If any
blame is to be shed here on Obama, it is that his agenda is a lot larger than
some troublesome oil spill.

There’s still too much to sift through as to what initiated the problem. Was it
sheer greed and government turning its head at the beginning? Did the bottom
line dictate safety guidelines, ..... and might the mysterious explosion not have
been an accident at all, considering all the uncommon activity just preceding
it? Everything could have been just ineptitude leading up to the fracturing of
the annulars, but could what happened after that been seen as an
advantageous reaction to ultimately test the feds dominance over the individual
states? Something to ponder. Look at the build up of foreign forces on US soil, I
mean, WTF are we doing with so many foreign troops on our own soil? And
looking at the global banking scene, this isn’t just an issue of one or two poorly
run currencies; something much larger is taking place and our own president
seems to be leading us right to the slaughterhouse.

I mean let’s face it. If we were really fighting to re-establish our manufacturing
base, and we weren’t in Afghanistan to support a Unocal pipeline and for the
lithium deposits and poppy, and if we weren’t trying to isolate Iran, all of our
fighting age personnel that are being deployed everywhere on the globe
instead of where they should be right here at home, would be back here
supporting making our economy stronger. The Bushes and the Clintons saw to
it that our manufacturing base would erode. It was a plan; one that Ross Perot
had warned us about and one that he eventually got threatened over.

So when we keep wondering how and why such an odd sequence of events all
seem to be taking us down one well defined road, when are people going to
start saying “Hmmmm?” It’s far too obvious that Israel and the US had no
intention of letting Iran comply with the mandates, and when the Carbon Tax
fiasco was just unraveling, Obama was all too eager to sign us up anyway, as it
was becoming increasingly aware that there was a big nasty fly in that
ointment. And still he persists.

The Bushes, the Clintons, and Obama have taken this country down a path of
destruction. Ever since Reagan’s cockiness over bringing the wall down, even
though the Russian economy was ready to implode anyway, we could adopted
a position of stewardship over the planet and had Peace Corp workers in every
country. The UN is a facade for collecting fees from member countries and is a
vehicle through which the World Bank operates, and if we had truly wanted to
address world hunger, it would been done long ago. So what is really going on?

Report this

By archivesDave, June 28, 2010 at 3:58 am Link to this comment

BP has refused to give the actual chemical composition of the dispersant Corexit which they reportedly are
pumping around ONE MILLION gallons per day into the
Gulf.  A few days ago they were finally forced to release the composition.
Here is the link that discloses it:

<http://depthofprocessing.blogspot.com/2010/06/secret-gulf-oil-dispersant-finally.html>

btw, None of the media is reporting on exactly how much pressure is involved and neither BP nor the
government is interested in disclosing it.

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BR549's avatar

By BR549, June 28, 2010 at 3:51 am Link to this comment

I found this information interesting about the troublesome Methane Hydrate. The
video’s author throws a few sequences of Godzilla in there, no doubt as some
form depressing comedy, but I like how the government always seems to start
these problems out of ineptitude and then thinks that sending in the military is
going to somehow solve that problem. We never seem to learn.

Anyway, here’s that link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVdnkMxocl0&feature=related

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By Lawrence Baker, June 27, 2010 at 11:06 pm Link to this comment

Ofersince said: “Do you have problem that I took up for Obama?”
What the hell does that mean! Ha Ha

Ofersince said: What is your problem after calling America a fascist
state?
Ha Ha. That doesn’t make any sense either! And that is not what I said.

You and Sara would make a good match, but I suggest that you let her do the talking. Ha Ha

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By ofersince72, June 27, 2010 at 10:11 pm Link to this comment

Dave, I can get those videos to come up everytime
using the method that I gave you.,  sorry for you
if you can’t.

Report this

By ofersince72, June 27, 2010 at 10:07 pm Link to this comment

Dispute what I said,  L. Baker,

Do you have problem that I took up for Obama?

What is your problem after calling America a fascist
state?

Report this

By Lawrence Baker, June 27, 2010 at 9:51 pm Link to this comment

Ofersince. Obviously you are a paid stinking propagandist who is assigned to frag the truth in Truth Digg. If not, you are an idiot that is not even self aware or cognoscente of where you are posting and you should shut up and learn instead of disrupting the contributions of others with important subject matter.  You have contributed nothing to the truth.

After reading your crap, I have concluded that you are a paid disruptive propagandist so I will show you no mercy. I come across paid propagandist of your caliber all the time pedaling their lies and confusion. That’s why you post here isn’t it?

I have yet to find a propagandist who can defend themselves out in the open with an intelligent conversation; all they can do is attack with cheap slander, lies, confusion and mock the truth. Never address the truth.

It is the paid propagandist job to be disruptive Idiots and hide from the truth and try and confuse the issues. This is how Fascisms degrades Democracy because Fascist has the Democratic right to open their pie- hole and can disrupt any public conversation.

That does not apply here Ofersince, either put up or shut up. Oh, that’s right you are too stupid to copy and paste an internet address so you have no proof of any of your Bull Shit.
 
You multi-posted on top of me and obviously you want to put as much space between my important conclusions on the subject matter as you can with your adolescent blither which is nothing more than to distract from the truth.
This is Truth Digg not Face Book- show a little humility and respect. You have no respect for the subject matter or the conversation so I have no respect for you.

Truth Digg should be ashamed! You should be ashamed!
You want bare knuckles; I will give you bare knuckles.

Report this

By archivesDave, June 27, 2010 at 8:59 pm Link to this comment

ofer:
Thnx for trying but I didn’t see any links that u posted?
Did TD erase censor them or ?

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By ofersince72, June 27, 2010 at 6:08 pm Link to this comment

Lately it appears to me, what a long strange trip it’s
been…....sometimes the lights all shining on me,
other times oil is all over me.

Down in New Orleans…......DO DA DAY…............
CAN’T EXPLAIN THAT VIDEO AWAY ..........NO SIR RAY

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By ofersince72, June 27, 2010 at 6:03 pm Link to this comment

Kind of reminds me of that old Jerry Garcia song.,,,

Busted , down in New Orleans….......


Damnit OFER…......that video…..why did you bring it up

Report this

By ofersince72, June 27, 2010 at 5:51 pm Link to this comment

This post is more of an accusation than bare fact.

Senator Bill Nelson has to have seen the same video that
I have seen, so that means his rant on the Senate floor
about hurricane season last week had to be a diversion
for BP…. ....Couldn’t have been anything else…
knowing just what I know, let alone all the more he
really does know than me…....

And it is a no wonder that many on here don’t like my
posts…....you all know the ones that I speak of !!!!

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By ofersince72, June 27, 2010 at 5:38 pm Link to this comment

Dave,  here is another good video to watch on the “leak”

from Viking Poseidom ROV 6/13/2010 @ 1:56AM entitled

ROV films oil leak coming from rock cracks on seafloor

Report this

By ofersince72, June 27, 2010 at 5:02 pm Link to this comment

That video busts them Dave,  there is no way to
explain it away….


  With that said, most on know that I am no Obama
supporter but the advertisment that Truth Dig has on
this site blaming Obama for this, and want a vote is
very unfair….and believe me , I am no fan of Obama,
but just as I didn’t like the Democrats capitolizing
political points on Katrina, I don’t like to see
the Republicans capitolizing on this terrible national
disaster and Truth Dig ought to be ashamed of itself
once again.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Report this

By ofersince72, June 27, 2010 at 4:02 pm Link to this comment

That is why is was trying tell everyone, don’t pay to
much attention to the Oil Drum website.

Report this

By ofersince72, June 27, 2010 at 3:57 pm Link to this comment

I saw another really disturbing video today on youtube,

This guy made about a fifteen minute video of the oil
that just washed up on a public beach in Florida the
last 24 hours…
It’s is unbelievable, kids running through thousands
of little oil balls, i mean they cover the whole beach,
he shows them in the Gulf washing in, the little balls
of oil are everywhere, you can’t walk along the beach
without being covered by oil, yet kids are still swimming and running all around, it is sad. This was filmed
yesterday,  I hope they shut beach.

Report this

By ofersince72, June 27, 2010 at 3:21 pm Link to this comment

Yeah Dave , I just found that out today, and hope
all that are working down in the Gulf are made aware of
this.

If you go to youtube, and put in BP oil leak , gulf of
Mexico May 29 2010,  you should get two videos
one four minutes and one two minutes…
  While they aren’t quite exactly what I saw May 28 , they
are close… look at them closely, this was before the
crimped rizor was cut,  tell me where this gusher is
coming from,,,,  look how high it is shooting, and
the volume. It is not the end of the rizor, and it can’t
be the top of the BOP, since at that time the crimpte
rizor was supposed to be still hanging over it.
  I watched all of the Evening of May 28, there were
many strange things happen that evening, it was the
evening that they finally admitted that top kill junk shot
was a failure….It was a strange night, that is why I
called Heather in MD and had her watch it with me. She
saw what I saw, and that was a big gusher coming from
the floor of the ocean, just might bigger than the one
they show on the video 29 May, nothing attached to it
and nothing around it.  A few over on Common Dreams said
they saw what I saw too.

  I am getting worried for all those living down there,
If they do start evacuating, I have room for a couple
motor homes with electric and water feeds, and plenty
room in the house for children if need be, it would be
a better option than going where the gov is going to send
them.

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