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Rape and Spillage

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Posted on Jun 15, 2010
oil spill
AP / Eric Gay

The Transocean Deepwater Discoverer drilling rig, center, and support vessels operate over the site of the Deepwater Horizon oil spill on Sunday.

By Robert Scheer

What’s with the president’s war analogy on the oil spill? It’s as if some alien force, “The Invasion of the Slippery Sludge,” suddenly attacked us. “Abroad, our brave men and women in uniform are taking the fight to al-Qaida,” President Barack Obama said Tuesday in his White House speech, “and tonight, I’ve returned from a trip to the Gulf Coast to speak with you about the battle we’re waging against an oil spill that is assaulting our shores and our citizens.”

What nonsense. The oil was minding its own business until some multinational corporations, enabled by a dysfunctional government regulatory regime, decided to wage war on the ecological balance of the oceans by employing technology that they were not prepared to control. Cleaning up the oil spill mess we made by raping the environment to satiate our consumer gluttony is not a glorious battle against evil but rather obligatory penance for the profound error of our ways.

You wound Mother Nature by punching a hole deep in her pristine ocean where you have no business going and when she bleeds uncontrollably you dare blame her for the assault? This from a president who shortly before this disaster had given the oil companies permission to pillage in the deep seas at will. At least now he admits to having been extremely naive in his belief that they knew what they were doing:

“A few months ago, I approved a proposal to consider new, limited offshore drilling under the assurance that it would be absolutely safe—that the proper technology would be in place and the necessary precautions would be taken. That obviously was not the case on the Deepwater Horizon rig, and I want to know why.”

He already knows why! It’s the same ideological obsession that led to the deregulation of the banking industry based on the assumption that the unfettered pursuit of multinational corporation profits would somehow serve the public good. In every area of federal governance the story is the same; the mammoth corporations, through their lobbyists and campaign contributions, end up controlling the government agencies ostensibly regulating the activities of the military/industrial, health, financial and communications complexes. Why be surprised that the oil conglomerates are also in bed with their pretend Washington regulators? 

Obviously Obama cannot be blamed for the bipartisan endorsement of the Reagan Revolution’s siren song, a call to make the world safe for multinational corporations. The radical anti-regulation campaign—endorsed by Bill Clinton as well as the father-and-son Bush team—corrupted rather than improved the efficiency of the entire private sector, and what happened with the oil industry was the rule and not the exception. 

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In explaining the failure of the Minerals Management Service, responsible for regulating the oil drillers, Obama stated: “Over the last decade, this agency has become emblematic of a failed philosophy that views all regulation with hostility—a philosophy that says corporations should be allowed to play by their own rules and police themselves. At this agency, industry insiders were put in charge of industry oversight. Oil companies showered regulators with gifts and favors, and were essentially allowed to conduct their own safety inspections and write their own regulations.”

That damning indictment of the corporate corruption of our political process should stand as a cautionary tale to those like the majority in those red states now suffering so because of the offshore drilling of which their voters previously approved. Hopefully they, and the president who catered to such impulses, will take away from this very costly mess a justifiable skepticism about the risk assessments of plunderers who treat natural treasures as nothing more than potential profit centers. 

The public goes along because, as with the jobs created by military spending and the false wealth of financial bubbles, it is blinded by lavishly funded corporate PR to the true costs of such reckless corporate behavior. It is understandable that folks struggling to get by would fall for that line, but it is inexcusable when the political elite in Washington that know better goes along with such chicanery. 

The war that needs to be fought and won is against corporate dominance of every important aspect of our political culture. I hope this disaster, its impact revised upward by the government on Tuesday to represent an Exxon Valdez-size spill of oil into the Gulf every four days, will facilitate that. The difference between the new estimate, 60,000 barrels of oil a day, and BP’s original claim of 5,000 barrels a day is just another example of the systemic corporate deceit that has characterized this immense catastrophe. This is the wakeup call to fight corporate arrogance that we, and our president, desperately needed. 

Click here to check out Robert Scheer’s book,
“The Great American Stickup: How Reagan Republicans and Clinton Democrats Enriched Wall Street While Mugging Main Street.”


Keep up with Robert Scheer’s latest columns, interviews, tour dates and more at www.truthdig.com/robert_scheer.



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By ofersince72, August 21, 2010 at 1:53 pm Link to this comment

Hey BR,  People really like to turn the back all the

time don’t

Remember FDR or
Remember Hitler or
Remember Lincoln and the Slaves
Remember Jefferson
Remember The Crusades
Remember Jesus
Rimember remember
But’t remember The Oil “Spill”
This ain’t 1176, or 1860, or 1932, or 1939, or 1963…..
But it is 2010,  don’t care to remember a lie ! ! ! !
From now on my ansere “yes, I know very well of the
A Z T E C   S Y N D R O M E

DAVE   thanks for the invite,  I might get teach me….
I bet Night-Gaunt would give you a run.

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By Night-Gaunt, August 20, 2010 at 11:19 am Link to this comment

Just remember that Japan has been in a depression since 1989 and it still isn’t resolved yet.

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By archivesDave, August 20, 2010 at 2:57 am Link to this comment

Ofersince:
btw, if u happen to like chess or wanna learn, I play in the yahoo (social) rooms under the handle of ‘archives2001’.
That’s an invite for anyone else here as well…
Goin thar rite now an will be in the ‘Beetle Spot’ or
‘Badger Bridge’ rooms.

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By archivesDave, August 20, 2010 at 2:50 am Link to this comment

Ofersince:
Better start learnin’ Chinese and get sum scotchtape!
I’m thinkin’ about it an if I becum a racist, I’ll
probably hav to take their side as well as learn ta
climb coca nut trees.

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By ofersince72, August 20, 2010 at 2:26 am Link to this comment

I mosquedebated last night

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By ofersince72, August 20, 2010 at 1:59 am Link to this comment

Violating A Social Contract…...Amy Zimmet Commondreams

a posters response…

Sneaker Aug19 11:42PM

What social contract?

Show me this social contract.


Ha ha ha.  You got fooled again.  You is fool.  Rich boss
to smart for you.  Ha, Now you die or kill for rich boss.
But you stop whinning or you get no rice ration.
Now kill your neighbor.  Now chop off your left leg
and hop on your right leg.  Ha , Ha Rich boss own you.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 20, 2010 at 1:11 am Link to this comment

Our ticket is shaping…....lookin good ! ! !

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By ofersince72, August 20, 2010 at 12:25 am Link to this comment

We need some financing Dave

Lets do a Truth Dig ponzi scheme

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By archivesDave, August 20, 2010 at 12:24 am Link to this comment

Ventura…
Now HE’S no Coca Nut, but he’d probably be in favor of it.

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By archivesDave, August 20, 2010 at 12:21 am Link to this comment

Ofersince:
U take Snoopie…
I’ll take Jessie…

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By ofersince72, August 20, 2010 at 12:11 am Link to this comment

Here is the dream ticket of the


R A S T A F A R I A N   L I B E R T A R I A N   P A R T Y

1.  Snoop Doggy Dog    

Got My Vote

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By archivesDave, August 19, 2010 at 9:54 pm Link to this comment

Ofersince:
“Well , just don’t forget to go to the polls this
November,  remember, your vote really does mean something.”
Yeah maybe…about the price of the roll of toilet
paper the ‘deer’ folk will need as they finally see the light of the freight train bearing down.

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By archivesDave, August 19, 2010 at 9:47 pm Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt:
“archivesDave, we have little chance of success unless the whole mess we have now is overturned. Sometimes the evil ones do win. I don’t want them to but if you have any suggestions? Otherwise we are a day late and a dollar short.”
SOMETIMES..the evil ones win???  When would you posit
the last time that WE won????
Oh, and yeah, we’re only around 15 TRILLION dollars
short and counting….And don’t forget the QUADRILLION DOLLARS run up in the derivatives scam.

Hyperinflation is headed our way after this depression winds down/up, take your pick.
Do u suppose folks will begin to take action when
it takes a wheelbarrow of fiat dollars to buy a loaf of bread as in Wiemar Germany.
They didn’t and wound up with Hitler a few yrs later.
Will history once again repeat itself? Me thinks it
highly likely.

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By Night-Gaunt, August 19, 2010 at 7:18 pm Link to this comment

archivesDave, we have little chance of success unless the whole mess we have now is overturned. Sometimes the evil ones do win. I don’t want them to but if you have any suggestions? Otherwise we are a day late and a dollar short.

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By ofersince72, August 19, 2010 at 7:16 pm Link to this comment

Well , just don’t forget to go to the polls this
November,  remember, your vote really does mean something.

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By archivesDave, August 19, 2010 at 6:46 pm Link to this comment

Ofersince:
“Where are all the people washing coconuts hanging?”

Probably looking for the light at the end of the tunnel while still stuck with their hands clinched inside those ‘coconuts’ which are solidly fixed to the ‘tracks’. They’re hangin’ on for ‘deer’life watching the headlights of the freight train coming at them.
(And I guess I have to include most all of us here in this same calamitous predicament.)

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By BR549, August 19, 2010 at 6:44 pm Link to this comment

ofersince72, August 19 at 10:28 pm

“Where are all the people washing coconuts hanging?”

I was out back polishing a few coconut husks.

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By ofersince72, August 19, 2010 at 6:28 pm Link to this comment

Where are all the people washing coconuts hanging?

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By ofersince72, August 19, 2010 at 6:26 pm Link to this comment

I agree Dave…

and that MarthaA, TomasG stuff is also getting real
tired ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

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By archivesDave, August 19, 2010 at 5:38 pm Link to this comment

Thomas/Martha:
AND your 70 PERCENT MAJORITY are too busy involved in MSM sports, soaps, game shows, false flag videos/ movies, video games, just trying to get find a job
or eke out a better one.
Some humongous catastrophe a lot worse than 9/11 will have to occur to get ‘we the people’ to put down our party emblems and unite against the REAL enemy.

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By ThomasG, August 19, 2010 at 11:38 am Link to this comment

Tea Bagger Republicans CAN take over the Republican Party, the same way the American Populace CAN take over the Democratic Party; however, the Tea Baggers are not an institutionalized political party and the American Populace is not an institutionalized political party; the American Populace is a 70% Majority Common Population Class and Culture that is not represented in the making and enforcing of legislated law and order in the United States.

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By archivesDave, August 19, 2010 at 4:09 am Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt (et al):
Your statement: “We have been cut off and left out to sputter around in circles while making third parties and wasting our energies that must climb the equivalent of mount Everest each time to enve have a 50% chance of over turning the system they took decades and billions of dollars to position. Think about that & think very hard and deep.”
We’ve been THINKING this subject to death…So WHO out there has a Plan of Action that has even a whiff of a chance to succeed? ...Are we to await things deteriorating enough to motivate us into a revolution or will we submissively allow the Govt
to continue printing several more TRILLIONS of dollars to ‘stimulate’ our economy into a hyper inflationary depression? 
It’s beginning to look that way.

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By ThomasG, August 18, 2010 at 11:25 am Link to this comment

BR549, August 17 at 11:20 pm and others:

The place to start is with Social Capital and Socialized Capitalism as an Economic System that is in direct competition with Private Capital and Privatized Capitalism, all else will work its way out from there, as has been the case in North Dakota and the same will occur in the United States as a nation when Private Capital and Privatized Capitalism no longer has a free ride on the back of Social Capital.

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By Night-Gaunt, August 18, 2010 at 8:15 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

First they sealed us in with two parties, then tthey left them open to be taken over by a third party—- the crypto-fascists. They run the show now. Next? Destruction of our Republican form of gov’t. Right now we are functioning as inverted totalitarian. But it is still slow and complicated for them. Streamline it like a carnivore’s digestive system makes for a better functioning theocratic-corporate governance they truly want. 100% empire is their goal, not the external one we have now. We have been cut off and left out to sputter around in circles while making third parties and wasting our energies that must climb the equivalent of mount Everest each time to enve have a 50% chance of over turning the system they took decades and billions of dollars to position. Think about that & thinki very hard and deep.

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By BR549, August 17, 2010 at 7:20 pm Link to this comment

I guess I still had some hope for Ron Paul. I could be wrong. With luck, he’s riding the fence enough to maintain some degree
of credibility in both camps, although it might seem rather
counter-productive).

If we had a system that was fiscally and socially responsible, one
that made a specific point of making sure everyone knew why
we had a Constitution, we wouldn’t need any of these
pontificating stuffed shirts like Boehner (Boner) or Liebermann.

I hear what you guys are saying, but where are you going to
start? You have to start somewhere; otherwise you wind up like
all the splinter parties of the mid 1800s.

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By archivesDave, August 17, 2010 at 5:33 pm Link to this comment

Ofersince:
I completely agree:
Comprehensive Campaign Financial and Lobbying Reform
remain the only viable answers from my perspective.
Will it happen?
Not as long as people don’t see the importance of it
and take action!
The longer we wait, the stronger the Globalists get
and the less chance of it happening!

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By ofersince72, August 17, 2010 at 12:01 pm Link to this comment

Regardless, Ron Paul is a REPUBLICAN.
and he will have Mitch McConnel and John Boehner sending
laws up for him to sign.

  The Democrats, also, are not going to let Kucinach out
the gate, and he too will have Pelosi and Reid sending
bills for him to sign.

Your votes are not going to change a bit of policy.

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By Night-Gaunt, August 17, 2010 at 8:23 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Using the propagandist term “pro-life” is their language we shouldn’t be using. Prochoice (for the woman) is real even if they and Paul denie it. And this a big red blot on his whole freedome of the individual philosophy he espouses doesn’t it? Also giving corporations free reign to do what they want is sheer insanity. So unlesss he is for repealing the false idea that corporations of any size have the same (or superior) rights as humans I shall remain skeptical of his claims. Dennis Kucinich you can trust to protect womens rights and fight to impose the kind of restrictions we need on Capitalism. Like with fire. With proper controls it is our servant—-let loose only mayhem would ensue.

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By BR549, August 16, 2010 at 4:40 pm Link to this comment

NightGaunt,

While Ron Paul might not be perfect, he has honesty and
integrity, and if we actually were able to live in a society where
we were successful in convincing people about abstention, and
also in a position for society to help care for the young, not
unlike what is done in a small Amazonian tribe, I could see
where his viewpoint would have some validity.

But we DON’T live in that idealistic world and as long as we have
meathead politicians who couldn’t pontificate their way out of a
wet paper bag, I don’t think that the pro-life platform has any
possibility of becoming functionally successful. Before that were
to ever happen, we need to clean up our managerial act and
right now it’s a theoretical pipe-dream.

Put another way, I can foresee a possibility where we wouldn’t
need to have a pro-life / pro-choice argument because younger
people wouldn’t feel so disconnected from listening to the
wisdom of their elders, and if they did decide to keep their
children, they might actually have a legitimate social support
network that was able bring the mother and father together to
take care of their offspring. Instead, the current pro-lifers’
pseudo-altruistic stance does next to nothing to actually help
that infant after it is born. For something so innocent as a
newborn, the pro-lifer stance is the ultimate in hypocrisy.

I am a pro-life supporter, but NOT if it means the continuation
of the this absolutely stupid, myopic, and politically self-serving
system we have at present, that keeps society divided and does
next to nothing for the children it claims to be saving.

And the irony of all this, is that the vast majority of pro-life
supporters have also voted for candidates that have the blood of
millions on their hands in Iraq and Afghanistan alone.

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By Night-Gaunt, August 13, 2010 at 9:10 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

ArchivesDave when the twins say “blah” you’ve taxed theit intellectual level. Fairly easy.

Ron Paul says he is for individual freedom unless you are a pregnant woman—-then you become a slave to someone else.

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By ofersince72, August 11, 2010 at 4:38 pm Link to this comment

Here is a good one from the Gulf,  got from my

Favorite Texas Muckraker today.

You know all those people we see in those nice

BP uniforms cleaning up the beaches with their BP hats

on too???

Well,  come to find out , most of them are prisoners,
so we are paying for the cleanup, not only that ,but
Most of these companies have had long standing agreements
and contracts with the states so that the states
promise the companies up to $2400 a week for hiring the
prisoners,  and not only that,,,
they apparently aren’t paying the prisoners nothing.
So it is not costing BP one cent plus the government is
paying them, but BP is paying no wages..
SWEET HUH????
NO WONDER THEY DIDN’T WANT REPORTERS TALKING TO ANYONE!!!

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By MarthaA, August 11, 2010 at 11:56 am Link to this comment

archivesDave, August 11 at 4:43 am,

Blah.

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By MarthaA, August 11, 2010 at 11:53 am Link to this comment

BR549, August 11 at 9:24 am,

Ron Paul is a Libertarian and Libertarians are farther Right than Republicans.

When any member of Congress is in Congress to represent the interests of Corporations and Capitalists, they are Republicans to the Right.

When any member of Congress is in Congress to represent the interests of the 70% Common Populace, they are Democrats to the Left.

There is no lukewarm.  Either you represent the populace or you don’t, and currently the lower 70% of the populace, the Common Population, are not being represented in Congress, because Republicans DO NOT represent the Common Population and Democrats of the Professional Left won’t, because they have decided they are the 20% Professional Left separate and apart from the 70% Majority Common Populace, and as long as they keep the 70% Majority Common Populace DIVIDED, they can have a fiefdom, relatively the same as the 10% Aristocratic Elite, but it is only because the 70% Majority Common Population are too stupid to realize they themselves are dividing their own constituency and causing their own problems, because if they would unite their Common Constituency, the minority populations wouldn’t have a chance against a 70% Majority and they could force their own representation and it is total ignorance to think not.

Gibbs said the problem is the Professional Left and that is because the Professional Left is a New Class of Conservatives that choose to represent corporations and big capitalists instead of the Common Populace.  Gibbs apparently thinks the Professional Left are liberals, but they are completely opposite from liberals—they are Conservatism’s Conservatives that collude with the REPUBLICAN PARTY.

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By BR549, August 11, 2010 at 5:24 am Link to this comment

Martha,

Where would you put Ron Paul in your hard-line, take no prisoners,
“everything is black and white”, scale to assess who is working in
the citizens’ best interests?

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By archivesDave, August 11, 2010 at 12:43 am Link to this comment

MarthaA:
This little ditty is only for your ears:
http://www.tagtele.com/videos/voir/21907

And like they repeat in AA, “take what u want and leave the rest”....but u may want to review it a few times.  If it’s hard to hear all the lyrics, u can pull them up here:
http://www.lyrics007.com/Eagles Lyrics/Get Over It Lyrics.html

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By archivesDave, August 11, 2010 at 12:09 am Link to this comment

MarthaA & Thomas:
Go back and review what I had to say about the Bushes.
They transacted business with govt fiat money like drunken Dems. You were absolutely right about Prescott Bush and to add another factoid, It is quite possible that one or more of the Bushes originally had German surnames.  Prescott’s father was no saint either and there is interesting info on Google that George the First’s wife, Barbara, is the
daughter of Alister Crowley since her mother was a groupie of his and was in Europe with him nine months before Barbara was born….Check it out.

And re Beck et al, at least make an attempt to LISTEN
to them periodically….Just remember, a broken clock
is correct twice a day but u have to be there at the
RIGHT time.  I believe you have the discipline and you can hold your nose if u like.
Glad to see you are at least perusing Jeff Rense and I would hope Alex Jones as well. I take my hat off to both of them….Digest as much as u can since some of their more extreme articles/interviews have/ are now being censored/removed according to Alex. Take a look at some of David Icke’s and Jordan Maxwell’s interviews too.
Again, I must emphasize, I don’t buy a lot of their
views either since it is very possible that they belong to the ‘ordo ab chao club’ with Freemasonry ties. I KNOW that Beck does…you can google him and confirm it.  Both Bushes, Reagan, Ford, and even
TRUMAN, both Roosevelts and Wilson were Freemasons.

The Teaparty movement and Beck will have a sway in this Fall’s election, even if they pull a Ross Perot and cause many Dems to be reelected that should be thrown out along with the Republicans.
Finally and most importantly, I can’t say it often enough, (even if no one else here discusses it), UNTIL there is COMPREHENSIVE CAMPAIGN FINANCE AND LOBBYING REFORM, (NO FORMER CONGRESSFOLK ALLOWED), we will continue into the near term Global Govt that will be ushered in with a Global (or Trilateral) Currency within three or four years…(and u can take that one to the Bank!)

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By MarthaA, August 10, 2010 at 10:58 pm Link to this comment

Lawrence Baker, August 11 at 12:25 am,

Of course you can’t tell Liberals from the Conservatives in a line up.

You need to be more concerned with getting the Conservative Professional Left out of the Left, instead of allowing fear to overtake you. 

If each one does what one can, we the people of the American Populace will get liberal democracy, and hopefully we can ditch Private Capital and Privatized Capitalism for Social Capital and Socialized Capitalism the next cyclical time the parasites of Private Capital and Privatized Capitalism think they are going to scare the Congress into recapitalizing their capital, it is not going to happen again.

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By Lawrence Baker, August 10, 2010 at 8:25 pm Link to this comment

Archive Dave: I find Mr. Simmons twist of fate of drowning in his hot tub hard to believe. I had conjectured that Mr. Simmons was a life long member of the crime family of Big Oil and World Banksters and   consequentially, loyal to them. I was suspicious of everything he had to say because their sanctioned criminal activities never address the truth. You know, the secrecy, smoke screen and lies routine.

I have found evidence to prove many of the things that Mr. Simmons has said and I haven’t came across anything that disproves anything that he has said.

Perhaps, Mr. Simmons came down with a case of integrity and was trying to relate the truth as he knew it. Truth is disloyalty to the money boys and his revelations could cost them billions. Warning: Integrity can be hazardous to your health. Mr. Simmons died an honorable death and went down fighting as we all will in time.

As I have mentioned before, our Democracy has been overthrown. In reality, Mr. Simmons could have been considered a threat to National Security and legally assassinated by the CIA.

Regarding the desaltation plant and nuclear power plant combination, the link didn’t work but I do know of the Science. That science advancement will mean nothing to the average person and will be used exclusively by the N.W.O power for their own purposes. There is nothing humanitarian about those traitor bastards and we are nothing more then slaves to them.

In the midst of the banking and oil crisis, Obama has been busy with a project that Bush even failed to pull off. Now, Obama is side-stepping the Senate via Executive Order, and will implement UN Law of the Sea regulations AS IF the treaty were ratified.
http://www.augustreview.com/news_commentary/treaties/law_of_the_sea_redux_20100804158/#

Here is a video for you to watch Martha of an interview with a defecting KGB member taken about 20 years ago. See if you can tell the Liberals from the Conservatives in the line up.

http://69.84.25.250/blogger/post/As-more-people-wake-up-this-video-gains-more-circulation.aspx

The ideal structure of the Corporate Empire is Communism and that is where they are taking us. Think about it; Communism is the ideal corporate structure of ruling from the board room.

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By MarthaA, August 10, 2010 at 3:02 pm Link to this comment

archivesDave, August 10 at 3:31 pm,

You are correct in that Bill Clinton is definitely a Conservative EXTREMIST,  and is the best Republican Alan Greenspan, the Former Conservative Republican Chairman of the Federal Reserve, has ever known, although Bill Clinton is on the democratic Left side of the spectrum, he represents the Academic New Populace Class and enjoys using his academic capital to be autocratic and authoritarian, which is largely the cause of Conservatism weighting down the Political Spectrum on the Right, because when the populace managed to get the Left-Wing elected in order to balance the political scale, Clinton made it possible to move the scale even farther to the Right from the Left, a act of which the unsuspecting populace was not prepared.
 
Clinton was the former leader of the DLC http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/Democratic_Leadership_Council  that got the DLC off the ground, and I feel all DLC members should be hung as traitors, as all DLC members in one way or another were part and party to the destruction of the economy in the United States and the World; therefore, I have no love for Clinton, his wife, or his Marie Antoinette daughter; the fact remains Clinton is a Conservative Democrat, a Republican cuckold, but never the less a Democrat.

So you like the CIA Hitler Regime Bushies:  “The UBC, under Prescott Bush’s direction and with the long-term cooperation of Fritz Thyssen’s German Steel Trust participated in the emergence, preparation and financing of the Nazi war machine through the manufacture of armored vehicles, fighter planes, guns and explosives.

The Bush family’s habit of dominating territories and wealth is nothing new. Their fascist genes were generated during the 1930s. Therefore defining the occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq and the threats to other countries as a continuance of blitzkreig offensives as fascist is no blunder. Neither is convening an anti-fascist front is a rhetorical exercise.” http://www.rense.com/general40/bushfamilyfundedhitler.htm
  . 
You know them by their fruits, and both Bush I and Bush II are Conservative Republican EXTREMISTS, although Bush II, through possible stupidity, was far more EXTREME than Bush I, and that is not to say that Bush I was less an EXTREMIST, just wiser.

We will progress as a nation when the populace conservatism mask is dropped, and not until.

Newt Gingrich is a Conservative Right-Wing Republican EXTREMIST that I feel is a traitor to the United States, as is all Rupert Murdoch’s propagandists on the Faux (fox) News Network, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin and like ilk.

Supposedly not being a Conservative anymore, how can you have that scumbag propagandists Glenn Beck, that taught himself about history and got all his learning at the public liberal libraries written in the same sentence as Noam Chomsky?  The liberal libraries were good for Beck but he does his utmost to destroy everything liberal for the rest of the populace as is recorded daily by Media Matters For America at http://mediamatters.org/topic/onlyonfox/

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By MarthaA, August 10, 2010 at 2:39 pm Link to this comment

BR549, August 10 at 3:20 pm,

Conservatism is conservatism, what can I say.  There is no other conservatism.  There is only one conservatism, and that conservatism is the one that resists new change and destroys all previous progressive change that has been made to benefit the populace; this is the one and only political conservatism, believe it or not, it is what conservatism is.

The other word conservative means fiscal, which is NEVER conservatism and it is used politically, but its meaning is NEVER used politically, because it has nothing to do whatsoever with anything political other than as a deception, because everything fiscal is figured out by the accountants and bookkeepers.

All that matters politically is Liberal-Change and Progress or Conservative-No Change and Return. If this alone could be understood, neither the Right, nor the Left could run rough shod over the American Populace, because Conservatives wouldn’t get in office except through fraud.

Real liberalism never runs down or over the populace, but builds up and helps the populace help themselves.  Neo-Liberalism is NOT Liberalism but is EXTREME destructive Conservatism.

And, if Wisconsin’s Senator Russ Feingold voted against having water rights, he doesn’t deserve to be a Senator representing the populace, or anyone else that votes against the populace.  I hope the Lord God will somehow find a way to take all the traitors of the populace to meet Former Senator “Bridge to Nowhere” Stevens.

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By MarthaA, August 10, 2010 at 2:31 pm Link to this comment

BR549, August 10 at 3:20 pm,

Conservatism is conservatism, what can I say.  There is no other conservatism.  There is only one conservatism, and that conservatism is the one that resists new change and destroys all previous progressive change that has been made to benefit the populace; this is the one and only political conservatism, believe it or not, it is what conservatism is.

The other word conservative means fiscal, which is NEVER conservatism and it is used politically, but its meaning is NEVER used politically, because it has nothing to do whatsoever with anything political other than as a deception, because everything fiscal is figured out by the accountants and bookkeepers.

All that matters politically is Liberal-Change and Progress or Conservative-No Change and Return. If this alone could be understood, neither the Right, nor the Left could run rough shod over the American Populace, because Conservatives wouldn’t get in office except through fraud.

Real liberalism never runs down or over the populace, but builds up and helps the populace help themselves.  Neo-Liberalism is NOT Liberalism but is EXTREME destructive Conservatism.

And, if Wisconsin’s Senator Russ Feingold voted against having water rights, he doesn’t deserve to be a Senator representing the populace, or anyone else that votes against the populace.  I hope the Lord God will somehow find a way to take all the traitors of the populace to meet Former Senator “Bridge to Nowhere” Stevens.

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By MarthaA, August 10, 2010 at 12:58 pm Link to this comment

That’s former Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens that was on an airplane that crashed last night in a remote part of southwestern Alaska, according to wire reports. Former NASA administrator Sean O’Keefe was also on the airplane, according to EADS North America.  AP reports that five of the nine passengers have died.

Former Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens, the longest serving Republican senator in American history, was killed in a plane crash in southwestern Alaska, according to Mitch Rose, a family spokesman and former Stevens chief of staff.

The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, blessed be the Name of the Lord.

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By archivesDave, August 10, 2010 at 12:40 pm Link to this comment

Here’s a link to a good article about the
Gulf situation from Dr Joe Mercola:
http://www.helium.com/items/1882339-doomsday-how-bp-gulf-disaster-may-have-triggered-a-world-killing-event

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By archivesDave, August 10, 2010 at 12:35 pm Link to this comment

Lawrence Baker:
Here is some data discussing the lowered costs of desalination and uniting it with nuclear energy.
The figures are undoubtedly skewed but nonetheless, I thought you’d be interested.
A snippet from the article which is basically an investment stock teaser:

According to a report out this week, the UAE spends $3.2 billion dollars on water desalination every year.

They have 70 plants that account for 14% of the world’s total desalination capacity. And they do it at a cost of $1.94 per cubic meter.

But a breakthrough in both nuclear energy and desalination - controlled by one company - is about to put a major dent in that pricetag.

By pairing portable nuclear reactors with desalination units, this U.S.-based company is selling scalable desalination units that not only provide freshwater, but excess electricity and carbon credits as well.

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By MarthaA, August 10, 2010 at 12:31 pm Link to this comment

Alaska Senator Ted Steven was killed in an airplane crash.  He is the Conservative Senator that became famous for building a Bridge to Nowhere.

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By archivesDave, August 10, 2010 at 12:07 pm Link to this comment

Lawence Baker et al:
Here’s the link to Dalr Jamail who Thom Hartmann interviewed this AM about the acute and chronic repercussions of the Gulf
Disaster.
A must read:
http://dahrjamailiraq.com/

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By archivesDave, August 10, 2010 at 11:49 am Link to this comment

Lawrence Baker:
Don’t know if u heard yet but Matt Simmons
was found dead of a ‘heart attack’..
I’m now beginning to think that Matt wasn’t so much of a corporatist alter ego as you previously alluded to.  Instead he had a premonition about his demise, (interior or exterior), and he was doing a Robt McNamara style mia culpa.
Irregardless, he did expose a lot of the underbelly of the beast, even if he was one of them.
btw, Thom Hartmann had a great interview this AM with a ‘Gulf oil muckraker’ but cannot remember his name.

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By archivesDave, August 10, 2010 at 11:31 am Link to this comment

MarthaA:
Congrats…I sense that u’ve, (or your other self has), picked up a considerable amount from BR549’s indefatigable brilliant dialog with you.
In your assessment of Conservative presidents, I would have included Bill Clinton. And I would have left out two names: Both Bushes..
For me, BR’s deeper, most brilliant message was, until we are willing to drop some of our MASKS and POSES, it will remain impossible for us to progress.
Give yoursel(ves) a little more permission to TRY and listen to what the folks whom you despise the most, are attempting to say…And DO keep in mind that THEY TOO, as all of us do, have more than one ego controlling them: (Thom Hartmann was discussing Newt Gingrich’s character(s) issue this AM and it was a hoot! 
As a former Conservative I didn’t really
begin to expand until I began to digest the ilk of Thom Hartmann, Chomsky, Zinn, Dr Hagger, Ventura, Manly Hall,Blovotsky, Glenn Beck, Icke, William Cooper, Salbuchi, G Edw. Griffin, etc.

ORDO AB CHAO,
archivesDave

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By BR549, August 10, 2010 at 11:20 am Link to this comment

Martha said, “Conservatism is a necessity, just not ALL Conservatism, at the
expense of Liberalism, ........

Oh, so after weeks of heated dialogue, we now admit to a difference in
Conservitivisms? Would this be anything like the difference I’d been trying to
get across to you about the disparity between the beliefs of conservative
midwestern farmers and that of the egotistically driven arcane socially
dysfunctional Conservative politicians?

And how nice that Michele planted a garden. So what? Jimmy Carter put solar
panels on the White House roof while he was making secret deals with Israel to
give our nuclear technology away. Rosa DeLauro actually put specific language
into her Food Safety bill that would have made it illegal to have a garden in the
back yard, ...... and Russ Feingold wanted to change the wording of the 1972
Clean Water Act that would have given the Feds total control of any water that
collected on your property so that you couldn’t even water those illegal
tomatoes if you wanted to. All these idiots were Democrats, and they line up
perfectly with their Republican counterparts, both of which claim to be in
service to the American people.

Now, either these idiots are just plain stupid, they can’t or don’t read what
they’re signing, or they have a more sinister conspiratorial plan in mind. From
what I saw in my brief experience in DC, I’ll at least put my money on Curtain
#1. I mean, do any of these nitwits ever proofread this stuff?

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By MarthaA, August 10, 2010 at 10:17 am Link to this comment

BR549, August 10 at 12:07 pm,

“Conservatism exists because collectively, as a race, we haven’t
found out how to successfully embrace it in order to no longer
require it.” —BR549, August 10 at 12:07 pm

MarthaA’s answer:  When is the population collectively going to no longer require the numbering system or the alphabet?  Conservatism is a necessity, just not ALL Conservatism, at the expense of Liberalism, there has to be a balance.

When the Conservative Bush administration was in power, liberal unions were undermined to the extent that they could do nothing of benefit causing labor wages to be cut, but now that there is a President on the Liberal side of the spectrum, liberal unions are opening up and doing what they can to be of benefit to the populace, and liberal community has been organizing all over the nation to be beneficial to the liberal populace, but it has been a total of over 32 years of Conservative REPUBLICAN RULE, with Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II making detrimental legislation that the Obama administration will not have time to change during his administration, but it is apparent change has begun and that greater change is coming.

During the Conservative Right-Wing Bush administration years of conservatism, liberal community organization was undermined to the extent that liberal community gardens within cities were blatantly destroyed, because the people in the area who worked and made the gardens were getting too much liberal benefit from their labor, and that could not be allowed, as it may spread and others will begin liberal gardening; but, in comparison, as soon as the Left-Wing got into office, liberal community gardening was brought back on the scene, and the First Lady Michelle Obama made a liberal garden at the White House as an example to the liberal populace, which would NEVER have happened under the Conservative Right-Wing Bush administration.  Left-Wing Community Gardening is now encouraged all over the United States by the Obama administration and they want it to spread and enhance liberal society.  Gardening as a means of helping with liberal COMMUNITY food supply in depressed times was SQUELCHED by the Conservative REPUBLICAN Bush administration, and would NEVER have been possible if the Left-Wing Obama administration had not have been able to get control of the government.  No Conservative Right-Wing government cares whether or not the populace have fresh vegetables, as they feel the U.S.D.A. commodities of oats, beans, rice and dry milk that they have taken away from the populace, as price supports for private business interests, are good enough for the populace, which is the real Conservative Agenda.

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By Night-Gaunt, August 10, 2010 at 8:35 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

BR549 I did warn you about getting involved with that tarbaby named MarthaA/ThomasG didn’t I? Took you long enough. Others of us have wasted time on them(?) as you can find here on this forum in other threads.

Superficial thinkers using simple numbers and believing labels as is causes that.

Till you figure out that with the two party duopoloy has been infiltrated by a group of crypto-fascists bankrolled by the elitie oligarchs of this country for the purpose of overthrowing it by debilitation then the pieces will fall into place. It did for me. After the two dominate parties were sealed away as the only parties they took over them much faster. It is more obvious in the Republicans, but the Democrats do their part—party affiliation means nothing now. Just what they do. “You will know them by their fruits” (of their labor) is a simple truism anyone can come up with and see. Use it as your guide. Even MarthaA/ThomasG can and they would change some of their tune if they actually would, they won’t. Hermetically sealed minds fuction that way.

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By BR549, August 10, 2010 at 8:07 am Link to this comment

MarthaA, August 9 at 11:21 pm

Some people buy that crap, hook, line, and sinker and never
question the source.

They get so hopelessly stuck on some concept they picked
during their Berkeley days in the ‘60s that when change does
come, they’re so tenacious about rejecting anything that doesn’t
look like what they learned when their minds were so malleable,
that the solution rolls right by them.

Ishmael and Isaac were the two (most likely fictitious) characters
in the Old Testament who, at the very least, embodied the
unrealized demons that each one saw in the other, but were
really looking at their unconscious selves, and here they were,
brothers in the same family.

Just like Ishmael and Isaac, each one was necessary to
understand the other. Like Loki and Bele struggling during that
episode of Star Trek (“Let that Be Your Last Battlefield”),
Conservatism exists because collectively, as a race, we haven’t
found out how to successfully embrace it in order to no longer
require it. The same holds true for Liberalism. Well, once people
“brand” themselves as “Liberals”, they really aren’t all that liberal.
They’ve locked themselves into this little ego box to preserve
some aspect of their identity; which one it doesn’t matter, but by
that time, they’ve lost sight of what Liberalism was really about.

It isn’t that I’m embracing Conservatism (personally, I find it very
destructive) but we are all in this family and until people are able
to embrace each others’ beliefs, we will only continue to
reinforce the level of separation that keeps your Conservatism
alive and well. And as for your midwest farmers who you think
are so much a part of your problem, they may appear “stuck” in
the slower pace of their old ways, but nature had done quite well
all by itself doing the same thing for billions of years; it didn’t
need some overzealous feminist studies graduate to force feed
the timetable.

Your contempt of Conservatism is really no different than the
contempt for Blacks, Jews, Hispanics or whatever. It’s
philosophical racism. At some point, when you get your out of
the clouds and try to understand why it is that some people (I’m
speaking here of the likes of the Bushes, the Clintons, Boehner,
Gore, Obama, Rockefeller, Geittner, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.)
need to disassociate themselves so far from the rest of the
human race (and ultimately God), then you’ll see why religion
had become such a strong part of their platform.

To suppose that one can eradicate Conservatism by beating it
with some huge stick is the same stupid argument they use in
trying to cure cancer with toxic chemicals. Until they look more
holistically at why cancer forms in the body in the first place,
they’ll continue to waste billions of dollars and the problem will
only morph itself into another monster.

You know, while you are so stubborn in your belief that
Conservatism is the cause of the problem, so too are those of
that ilk that YOU are the cause of their problem. Can you
imagine if someone like former presidential candidate John
Hagelin had been allowed to argue the philosophical and
spiritual merits of this political dichotomy during prime time
television debates? And what if a few other politicians started to
do the same? All of a sudden, Hilary and Obama would have
been exposed for exactly who they were, and McCain and Palin
would have been laughed off the stage. Forget the philosphical
aspect of a moment; let’s just suppose that the topics for debate
centered around the Constitution. Watch, then, how fast the rats
leave the ship. Obama would be talking in circles, Hilary would
be back-tracking, and McCain would be scratching his head.

As long as you stay glued to this Good vs Evil scenario, you’ll
only manage to further entrench yourself, AND your perceived
enemy, deeper into your respective bunkers. Look at the larger
picture.

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By MarthaA, August 9, 2010 at 7:21 pm Link to this comment

BR549, August 9 at 4:41 pm,

NOTHING has changed, in this regard, NOTHING ever changes—you are apparently too dense to understand, or are deliberately obfuscating.

Conservatism is more than 200 years old, like gravity, centrifugal force, etc., it will always be, and is the same today as it was yesterday, and will be the same always. 

Conservatism has to be diluted with Liberalism, otherwise, the bankruptcy of a nation will happen, and it did happen in the United States September 18, 2008, due to no dilution of Conservatism and also is what caused the last depression—too much conservatism.  Too many people, like you, who are deceived into thinking conservatism is good for the populace, when the cause for economic crisis is an over majority of conservatism in Congress getting laws passed to the detriment of the populace. 

Conservatism is tyranny and oppression of the populace —Only Liberalism is freedom of the populace from tyranny and oppression.

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By BR549, August 9, 2010 at 12:41 pm Link to this comment

Martha,
One last time; ...... the conservative values of the average voter have NOTHING to do with the Federalist, post-British Aristocracy Conservatism of 200 years ago, not when Republican politicians continue to take advantage of the naivete of that population and also misrepresent the meaning of that term for their own selfish interests. You keep trying to tell those hard working farmers in the midwest, in your usually tactful way, that their voting philosophies are responsible for the demise of our current system and I’ll bet you’ll wind up with your car at the bottom of a river .... most likely with with you in it.

The average Republican voter is voting for some degree of normalcy by looking BACKWARD to a time when things seemed to be more simple and stable and when they could walk down the street at night without getting mugged. The Democratic voters are looking for normalcy, only they’re looking to change everything by moving FORWARD out of the mess. I would certainly count on some minor differences in philosophies, but as long as the country was doing well and we were making friends all across the globe, I seriously doubt we’d be having all the political posturing that is tearing the country apart.

Whether we take care of our own less fortunate through “noblesse oblige” from the Right or welfare from the Left, as long as the economy was doing strong and the country’s focus was to educate the population instead of dumbing it down,  the problem would be self limiting if not self healing. That’s why politicians and elitists need for us to be in conflict with one another. That rift continues to allow them to create more siphons for our tax dollars.

The majority of the American voting public, whether Republican or Democrat just wants honesty and integrity in government. If we had that in government, the Republicans wouldn’t be constantly trying to take us into war, the Democrats wouldn’t be constantly trying to take us into war, and the voters would have had enough of the bullshit to not let the politicians get away with it.

This isn’t about parties, because both parties are being controlled by the same forces. I thought you would have figured that out by now.

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By MarthaA, August 9, 2010 at 11:10 am Link to this comment

BR549, August 9 at 2:01 pm,

You have not adequately answered anything and don’t answer again. 

Conservatism is the problem.  Conservatism is not the answer.
 
You will never find liberal values in conservatism, and you are claiming liberal values as conservative values, and they are completely opposite.

Liberal is fiscal conservative to the populace liberally, but Conservatism is not fiscal conservative, in any way.

Republican’s conservatism doesn’t and will not work to bring our country forward out of the ditch, it only works to take our country deeper into the ditch of Hooverism—where there was a subjective chicken around every corner.

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By BR549, August 9, 2010 at 10:01 am Link to this comment

Martha,
You’re either not reading or not understanding what I write, so I
find myself having to cut you loose. I just don’t have the time.
Other people get it; you don’t; I can’t help you. Here’s a box of
provisions, some water, and matches ..... and that little island
over their is all yours.

Yes, Grayson is one of the good guys, I never said otherwise, but
as with any of these existing politicians, we all have to keep
scrutinizing their voting records and see what they do to help
educate the public.

You’ll know them when you see them; they’ll be the ones trying
to end the Fed, repeal the Patriot Act, and restore the Posse
Comitatus Act. Short of that, everything else is just bullshit and
lip service.

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By MarthaA, August 9, 2010 at 8:22 am Link to this comment

BR549, August 9 at 12:08 am,

Do you think Excedrin will be cheaper under Conservative Republican EXTREMISTS?  Do you think anything will be cheaper under Conservative Republican EXTREMISTS?

John Boehner is the leader of the Conservative Republican EXTREMISTS and he wants to continue the tax cuts to the wealthy; is that what YOU want?  Do you really think cutting the wealthy’s taxes will help the populace find any kind of job other than a McJob?  Are you in favor of Republican “Tinkle Down Economics?”

President Obama and what there are of liberal, progressive Democrats chooses to have NO MORE TAXES for all making less than $250,000 per year, and leave the tax cuts to the wealthy in tact, as taxing the wealthy will help this country pull out of the depression the wealthy Republicans put the country in, as the wealthy Republicans have taken too much of the nations money already, which caused the economic crisis, and Republicans must not be allowed to get back into office to continue their destruction of our nation, because that is exactly what Conservative Republicans will do.

Economist, Alan Greenspan, former Republican Chairman of the Federal Reserve says extending the tax cuts to the wealthy will be disastrous, which means it must not be done, as the populace is fed up with Republican “Tinkle Down Economics.”

The Republicans “Tinkle Down” Plan is the exact same as it always has been, to borrow more money to finance tax cuts for the wealthy that will have to be paid back with exorbitant INTEREST by the populace, further destroying the nation as a whole and making real jobs for the populace a pipe dream:

All Conservatives in politics are EXTREMISTS and deficit frauds:

http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/08/08/deficit-frauds-boehner-and-pence-can’t-answer-how-tax-cuts-for-wealthy-will-be-paid-for/

I am for liberal Democrats like Alan Grayson, who stand up for the American Populace, to expand prosperity.  Liberal, progressive Democrats that will represent the liberal 70% Majority American Populace that are being sidelined, marginalized and unrepresented in Congress.

I am NOT for more Conservative Democrats from the Conservative Republican “Tinkle Down” Tea Party that represent the Conservative Academic Professional NEW Class of Neo-Cons.</b> 

Propaganda is binary emotional rhetoric, don’t get caught up in the emotion of Conservative Republican subjective propaganda, as the Republicans ARE the party that caused the problem, and Republicans will NEVER be the solution.

.

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By BR549, August 9, 2010 at 6:05 am Link to this comment

ArchivesDave,

I think part of the problem is like growing up as a child. We may
not always agree with what our parents tell us to do, owing
mostly to our level of immaturity, but for MOST families,
children can at least trust that the parents will always put a roof
over their heads, put food on the table and not beat them or sell
them into slavery.

With politicians like Jesse, even though you might notunderstand
all the idiosyncrasies of the Constitution, you could at least
know you could trust him to take care of the people. He, unlike
the vast majority of over-coiffed political Benedict Arnolds we
have in office, would at least make an attempt to help educate
the people as to why they need to understand their own
Constitution. I could see him right now standing behind the
presidential podium, wearing a sports jacket over a black T
shirt and just explaining what is really going on to the
population. I can’t imagine a more empowering and constructive
situation. It’s enough to give me goosebumps.

And there are other politicians out there (a small select handful)
who could also fit that bill, but imagine if the “in vogue” thing to
do in Washington was to actually tell the truth and come clean.
Corporations would go back to needing approved charters to
operate and politicians would be tripping all over themselves
trying to clean up our act. Of course, with that happening, we’d
be refocusing our own energy on shutting down the Fed,
building our manufacturing base back up, and pulling all our
troops out of all those 850 bases across the planet.

If we weren’t still invading other countries, assassinating any of
their democratically elected leaders that stood in the way of our
“Empire”, and raping their resources. Imagine how many people
across the globe would go back to just living their lives instead
of thinking of nothing else but how to blow something up here
(all false flag episodes aside).

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By archivesDave, August 9, 2010 at 2:51 am Link to this comment

BR549:
“I know Jesse Ventura doesn’t exactly fill one’s mind with the image of an intellectual Rhodes Scholar in the White House or even as VP, but Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar and that turned out to be a worthless political attribute. At least with Ventura, or a politician with that level of honesty, you know exactly what
you’re voting for”.

Preach it Bro! 
I’d campaign & vote for him in a heartbeat
even tho I may not go along with some of his far out ideas.
He certainly has the inside track on the Tavistock, Rothschild, and NWO Elite
which MarthaA doesn’t seem to have a clue
on: He/she is so busy trying to debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin(head).
Jesse has a lot of great video clips on youtube and elsewhere: I’ve learned a lot from him along with Salbuchi, G Edward Griffin, Alex Jones, Jordan Maxwell, Dr Nicholas Hagger and others.

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By archivesDave, August 9, 2010 at 2:27 am Link to this comment

Lawrence Baker:
“The bubble grows
The seafloor swells
All BP needs is more time
To build a ecological and economic bomb”

This certainly jibes with a lot of the underground news that I’ve been seeing.  Even Dr Mercola has presented some hair-raising research and he’s pretty much mainstream:

  http://www.helium.com/items/1882339-doomsday-how-bp-gulf-disaster-may-have-triggered-a-world-killing-event

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By ofersince72, August 8, 2010 at 8:17 pm Link to this comment

BR,,,,,that was damn good !!! !

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By BR549, August 8, 2010 at 8:08 pm Link to this comment

Martha, said, “Boehner is a Conservative, Conservatives jobs are
to conserve the wealth of the nation for the wealthy ....”

That’s terrific. You go right ahead and try to reform the
Democratic Party. Meanwhile, since that strategy of yours
virtually leaves out half the Americans’ understanding or
misunderstanding of the term “conservative”, you’ll still be
beating your head against the wall and wondering why your
Exedrin expenses have gone through the roof.

Boehner (or Boner) is such a classic Republican politician who
epitomizes what the American voter despises in politics. He
spends more time on his tan and his $5,000 suits than he does
staying in touch with his constituents. Of course, to him, the
only constituents worth listening to are the ones with any
money, but he puts on the good act, still making believe that he
actually gives a crap about the farmers and the laborers that are
still buying into the false notion of conservatism. But to those
farmers, they only see that the level of being conservative hasn’t
been strong enough; they’re not seeing that the politicians are
still acting out Federalist identities from 200 years ago.

While your Democratic reform solution has people focused on
repairing the damage moving forward, those voters in Grain
Belt, Iowa are still believing the solution lies in going backward
to simpler times. That’s why just reforming the Democratic Party
hasn’t got a toad snot of a chance to solve the problems of
today’s political corruption. It still comes back to integrity, and
that is sadly lacking on both sides of the aisle.

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By MarthaA, August 8, 2010 at 4:29 pm Link to this comment

BR549, August 8 at 4:15 pm,

“The issue still remains the current day understanding of the term Conservatism, which I will still argue that the vast majority of midwesterners hearing that term have vote along its lines because it reminds them of being functionally and fiscally conservative;”

Midwesterners that consider political conservative to be functionally and fiscally conservative think that way because they have been propagandized by the Conservative Republican EXTREME Right to think that way? 

To get a really good idea of how much the Conservative Republicans care about the populace, and fiscal responsibility, watch John Boehner in this video from Meet the Press this morning, the Boehner interview is after Browner interview:

http://rightvsleft.com/2010/08/08/meet-the-press-john-boehner-unable-to-answer-a-straight-question/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38593566/ns/meet_the_press-transcripts

Republican Conservative EXTREMIST Congressman John Boehner said more tax cuts for the wealthy, even though a clip from Alan Greenspan said that more tax cut for the wealthy will not help the economy and without helping the economy there will not be jobs.

Boehner is a Conservative, Conservatives jobs are to conserve the wealth of the nation for the wealthy —nothing more— nothing less; it is OK for the populace to be on the hook to pay for the money the Republicans conserve;  everything else is propaganda, no matter how many people believe the propaganda.  Alan Greenspan said stop the tax cuts to the wealthy or it will be disastrous for the nation.

One has to get past the non-adult propagandized rhetoric that Republicans put out that literally say nothing.

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By BR549, August 8, 2010 at 12:15 pm Link to this comment

Martha said,  “You apparently don’t understand constituency.”

I’m not even going to address that asinine statement. The term
has more than adequate breadth to accommodate the latitude in
my use of it.

The issue still remains the current day understanding of the
term Conservatism, which I will still argue that the vast majority
of midwesterners hearing that term have vote along its lines
because it reminds them of being functionally and fiscally
conservative; not because they have any great loyalty for the
group of politicians on both sides of the aisle that perceive
themselves as the Illuminati or the “Chosen Ones”.

And just to stir your pot a bit more, I would suggest that, were it
not for the sell-out by the Republican Party to its
constituents,and had the Republicans actually stood for the
values they claim to hold so true, you’d have barge loads of
Democrats jumping ship who were also looking for that same
level of normalcy.

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By MarthaA, August 8, 2010 at 9:53 am Link to this comment

BR549, August 8 at 2:54 am,

You apparently don’t understand constituency.  Tell me the difference in the elite/corporate capitalist constituency, the Presidents of Banks or Superintendents of Schools constituency, and the populace constituency, as these are different constituencies, do you know the difference?  If so, what is the difference between these three constituencies?

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By BR549, August 7, 2010 at 10:54 pm Link to this comment

Martha, .... Thomas, ..... or whatever you call yourself today, (I
don’t really care if you’ve got this LGBT thing going on ..... or
you have a Multiple Personality Disorder), ..... LOOK, the Left
you so adamantly adhere to is NOT “exactly what it used to be”,
to quote yourself. Neither is the Right. But as long as you keep
assessing the people’s motives by the Party’s claimed platform,
you’ll continually miss the mark and you won’t solve anything.

It’s unfortunate that most of the voters still do not realize
they’ve been lied to, but that’s where our work is cut out for us;
in having to educate a fearful or naive public.

To say that no normalcy can be achieved on the Right only
means that you still have no idea what people on the right
embrace in their true belief in family, community, and patriotic
values, and until you grasp that issue, the few and only people
that will be congregating around your soapbox will be some
hardcore holdouts that attended protest rallies in the ‘60s.

To state that ALL conservatives have something to protect and
that the populace has nothing to protect ......... I mean, you
gotta get your meds or your hormones adjusted. As American
citizens, we ALL have something to protect. 

You go ahead and keep trying to convince everyone, especially
those in the midwest, that they’ve been knowingly espousing a
return to aristocratic control and I’ll bet a few guys named Billy
Bob will be be paying you a late night visit to remind you
otherwise. You will never reach that half of the voting public the
way you’re going and your passion will have been wasted.

The solution to all of this is to educate as many people as we can as to what is really happening with both parties and how the representatives had abandoned them a long time ago. If at some point in time, a Republican appears on the horizon, such as Ron Paul, who does understand the difference between being conservative and your Conservatism, AND you’ve been able to clean out the corrupt Democrats out of the Congress, I’ll bet you dollars to doughnuts that it would be a very comfortable
marriage.

I know Jesse Ventura doesn’t exactly fill one’s mind with the
image of an intellectual Rhodes Scholar in the White House or
even as VP, but Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar and that turned
out to be a worthless political attribute. At least with Ventura, or
a politician with that level of honesty, you know exactly what
you’re voting for.

Right now, so many voters are so distrusting of the system that
they demand to know what the politicians’ stated positions are.
Imagine knowing that you could just trust someone even though
you had no idea where they stood on an issue.

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By MarthaA, August 7, 2010 at 7:06 pm Link to this comment

BR549, August 7 at 10:03 pm,

The Left is exactly what it used to be, the Left has only been deceived into thinking they are the Conservative Right, a Divide and Conquer Strategy of the Conservative Right.

The reason Conservative Republicans beliefs are nearly totally inconsistent with Conservative beliefs is because they are NOT CONSERVATIVES, just have drank the Conservative Kool-Aid.

And, you sound like the chicken that crossed the road in front of a car, to turn right around abruptly and run back in front of the car and get killed.  There can be no normalcy farther Right, the Right is the problem and Conservative is as far Right as you can go. 

Conservatism is Conservative politically and the sooner the populace en masse understand it the better the nation as a whole will be.

Conservatives have interests to protect and do not want to share with any of the populace, and are really glad if members of the populace will help them in the process, but will always be unable to accomplish anything of benefit for the populace, because the populace is not their constituency, and they are only using the populace as cuckolds.

Conservatives on the Left, because of their NEW CLASS Conservatives have their academic capital to protect, trying to keep the populace from being able to be a threat to their position; while the old time regular Conservatives are protecting their money and their monied interests and both make laws to make it difficult for the populace to be a threat to their fiefdoms, especially the NEW CLASS. 

All conservatives have something to protect, they conserve for their constituencies, and neither the New Class nor the Republicans represent the 70% majority populace in the United States.

The populace have nothing to protect, if they have a job, they have high costs and bills to pay and nothing to protect, therefore NO member of the 70% majority common population should be a conservative.  Any member of the populace who is a conservative is blinded by the Right.

Conservative is old, but there are many Conservatives on the Right and Left in Congress, the Republicans, are all Conservatives and the bunch on the Left are protecting their academic capital.  Conservative in a political setting is exactly what I have stated, and all Conservatives in Congress are in a political setting, therefore all Conservatives are protecting their constituencies from the American Populace getting anything, because anything the populace gets will decrease what they have and that is not their politics.

Currently the populace have few representatives in Congress, as none of the Congressmen are required to represent the populace, they only represent their constituencies, which for the Democratic Party is the upper 20% of the populace and for the Republican Party is the most high 10% of the population, and manipulate the populace into thinking they are Republicans and things will be better if Conservative Republicans get back in, which is not possible, it was Conservative Republicans that were in that caused the situation.

The only way to correct this takeover of the government from the populace is for the populace to unite, take back, and use the Democratic Party in Congress to gain back in law what Conservative legislation has taken away from the populace.

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By BR549, August 7, 2010 at 6:03 pm Link to this comment

Martha,
“The problem is not President Obama, the problem is too many
Conservatives and Moderates on the Left .....”

Well, I guess the Left ain’t what it used to be, or put another
way, it seems far too apparent that your “Left” hasn’t created
enough of a vacuum sufficient to correct the problem. I would
posit that the problem wasn’t so much one of position as it was
integrity and honesty; i.e. the stated goals of BOTH parties are
inconsistent with what the populace has thought they were
voting for. The populace keeps voting for their respective
parties’ “stated” platforms and what they get is Federalism and
your hand-me-down British version of Conservatism all over
again, no matter which party they vote for. The people, quite
honestly, are not been represented and when you look at the
concatenation of presidential puppets who have systematically
been authorizing FEMA to expand its military powers to stave off
an insurrection, Obama included, ........ they’re using our own
system against us, and they know it.

I know we keep having to hash this out, but the Republican
voters’ “conservative” beliefs are nearly totally inconsistent with
the concept of “Conservatism” as you choose to harp on (rightly
so), and I intentionally cased the two words that way. The
Republican voter base keeps voting to “return” to some degree
of normalcy, while the Democratic voter base thinks the system
can “change” to some degree of normalcy. All the voting public
really wants is some honest politicians; not this incessant train
of civilly dysfunctional lawyers whose only loyalty lies with
themselves.

It isn’t that the Republican and Democratic voters are even that
far apart in ideology; I really don’t think they are, but the
politicians need them to feel as if they are that far apart. The
biggest rift is in the claims of their respective politicians’ idle
promises in order to get their voters aligned for their own
generic versions of Hope and Change, but that is really what
BOTH sides want ..... they just want an uncorrupt government.
Instead, all the NON-corrupt politicians either get muscled off
the debate stage or seem to wind up in a “mysterious” plane
crash.

BTW, a year ago, in Gore Vidal’s article here,
(http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090728_america_the
great_police_state/) you and many others presented some
interesting material. (I was driving across country at the time. )
Anyway, several others there were stating what I have been
stating about the current Rep/Dem Uniparty arrangement. In
that column, you were still hanging onto that 70% figure for the
common population. I’m not sure where you arrived at that
figure, but I would posit that the figure is much higher than
that; the significant difference is what the voting public believes
they are voting for.

If that figure might perhaps be 80-85%, as I think it could easily
be, the issue really comes back to these used car salesmen
politicians overselling their own products.

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By MarthaA, August 7, 2010 at 10:17 am Link to this comment

BR549, August 7 at 8:15 am,

Conservatism has always been and will always be,— just as liberalism has always been and will always be. Liberalism creates and innovates and Conservatism protects that which is created.

Conservatism protects the interests of the autocratic elite, who are now corporatists.  The names of the party doesn’t mean anything, but the Democratic Farmer and Labor Party of 1952 is significant only in the fact that the Democratic Farmer and Labor Party was letting farmers and laborers know that their help was from the Left, not the Right.

You are correct in that you say there WERE aspects of both liberal and conservative in both political parties, because there WERE, prior to the Academic New Class and the Conservative Revolution.  The conservative Academic New Class on the Left and the Conservative Revolution on the Right changed the political scenery, largely because it was/is a revolution of deception causing no Liberal Revolution from the populace whatsoever, because the American populace were unaware they had been sold out by their representative who had formed a NEW CLASS of Conservatism’s Conservatives.

During the Conservative Revolution which went full bore in 1980 and is still in rapid process, as all liberals and anyone who was/is “NOT Conservative Enough”, was/is kicked out of the REPUBLICAN PARTY, so that now all the Republican Party has is Conservatism’s EXTREMISTS, and if some get in that aren’t EXTREMISTS, then it is only a matter of time until the party itself kicks them out one way or the other, because the REPUBLICAN PARTY is determined to keep the REPUBLICAN PARTY 100% EXTREME Conservatism.

And, with Conservatism’s EXTREMIST positions on the Left, and no one who isn’t Conservative ENOUGH being allowed on the Right, the Republican Party, it makes it relatively simple for Republican Conservatism to defeat whatever liberal innovation there is in support of the American Populace.

The problem is not President Obama, the problem is too many Conservatives and Moderates on the Left, and the Left is represented by the Democratic Party, NOT the Republican Party, because the Republican Party kicks out everyone who is not conservative enough, therefore there is NO EQUALITY between Liberal and Conservative, the Democratic Party is the only party that has any liberals representing the populace at all.

Around 1953, the new representation of the Left, the Democratic Party,  was made into Liberal-Liberals, Moderate-Liberals, and Conservative-Liberals.  And, likewise, the new representation of the Right, the Republican Party, was made into <b>Liberal-Conservative, Moderate-Conservative, and Conservative-Conservative, which supposedly made both parties equal, and would have been, if not for the Conservatism Movement to <b>throw all Liberals and anyone that isn’t Conservative enough out of the Republican Party, which continues today, and will continue until all the Moderates and Conservatives are thrown out of the Democratic Party so that the Democratic Party will be representative of the American Populace, instead of only representative of the 20% NEW CLASS that separated themselves apart from the American Populace as Conservatives, conserving their academic assets for their class and leaving the American Populace holding the bag.
.

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By MarthaA, August 7, 2010 at 7:54 am Link to this comment

BR549,

This is a disclaimer by MarthaA for inadvertently using ThomasG’s name.

The ThomasG, August 7 at 2:17 am post to BR549 is a MarthaA post inadvertently sent under ThomasG.  Although ThomasG and I may agree,  he did not write this ThomasG post of August 7 at 2:17 am to BR549, it is strictly a MarthaA post to BR549

I haven’t the political knowledge of ThomasG, but I do remember that the Democratic Farmer and Labor Party was the party that represented the populace, farmers and laborers in 1952 and 1953, and it was not changed because the party felt more liberal, but because Republican Conservatism took over, which needs to be kicked out of the Democratic Party;  moderate is just another hiding place for conservatism and needs to be kicked out as well.

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By BR549, August 7, 2010 at 4:15 am Link to this comment

I guess my point was that it had taken far too long for the ideologies of what we
now see in the Republican Party to sort themselves out from those of the
Democratic Party ..... and that there were aspects of both current parties in both
older parties, even AFTER the formal split.

To say that Republican interests were always about corporatism and the the older
British idea of Conservatism, just isn’t true. The “Free Land” belief of the
Republicans was certainly against the large plantation owners and in favor of the
small farmer. Also, the Republican Party had been formed in part by former Whigs
who had embraced ideals such as modernization an a Congress controlled
executive branch; attributes more befitting the current Democratic Party (up until
Obama).

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By BR549, August 6, 2010 at 11:26 pm Link to this comment

Sorry Thomas, history just doesn’t back you up.

The Democratic-Republicans were the party that ran against the Federalists up through about 1812 and yet aspects of what we now see as Democratic values actually represented the interests of the working man for perhaps 60+ years by BOTH now split factions. Technically, the Dems and Reps split around 1812. As
I said, it wasn’t until the Reconstruction that the parties had really started to shift.

It was Ulysses S. Grant, who had brought in the rampant graft and corruption that people commonly associate with the Republican Party, even though the party had been noted for having introduced a number of pieces of civil rights legislation. It was really the Grant presidency that seems to have been the
turning point for the parties shifting their loyalties; and certainly by the New Deal, some 60 years later.

It took about half the age of this country for the ideals of the Democratic Republican Party to sort itself out to what we “think” are the values today, but we are all finding out that those values are a ruse, as the Federalists have creeped back into the picture under names like Halliburton and Goldmann Sachs.

Bush ripped out Posse Comitatus and Obama won’t reinstate it (what does that tell you?); and the only winners are NAFTA, and those in the Global Banking Party, while everyone is at home drinking Kool-Aid and watching American Idol.

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By ThomasG, August 6, 2010 at 10:17 pm Link to this comment

The Republican Party BR549 has never been called the Republican Farmer Labor Party, because it never has been.  Only the Democratic Party was called the Democratic Farmer Labor Party, of which I didn’t learn from history, but remember, as YOU should as well.  I haven’t agreed with you.  The Republicans ARE the Federalists, the Democratic Party of the two is suppose to represent the Anti-Federalists and needs to be made to do so by the populace.

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By BR549, August 6, 2010 at 8:56 pm Link to this comment

MarthaA, August 6 at 10:29 pm

So, first you call my argument garbage and then you wind up agreeing with what I had been trying to state to you for the last week. Jeez, I hope you don’t take this long in the voting booth.

“... the Republican Party that never has represented farmers and laborers,” Martha, sweetie, look, the Democratic-Republican Party did exactly that up until roughly 1820, 1844, and again as late as 1860. The Republican Party STILL represented the farmers and laborers until around the Civil War (most likely the
(Reconstruction Era). It wasn’t until after that time that the Republican Party subverted itself to become a modern day Federalist Party, certainly by the New Deal, around 1930.

So, I guess, according to YOUR argument, all those naive and gullible millions of midwestern farmers are to blame for the Republican Party being hijacked and changing its spots. While all of these farmers and laborers were fancifully voting for what they thought were true conservative values, you want to pillory them for still not understanding the difference between the functionally conservative values and the arcane British Conservative values that preserved
the monarchy and the Crown.

Meanwhile, the Democrat Party has gone through its own dysfunctional transformation; lying to its constituency to make it think it has anything to do with progressive or liberal ideals. It too has become a subset of the elitist Global Banking Party.

So where does that leave us? We have both the Republican and Democrat Parties representing elitist interests and a handful of actually honest politicians who have been stranded out in left field trying to figure out which platform would be the easiest to change back to some semblance of normalcy.

While you continue to rant about only a converted Democratic Party being capable of pulling us through these times, I’ll guarantee you that by now, the majority of Americans would tell you they’ve had enough of this Hope and Change crap and that, if they had a choice, the only thing they would actually change would be to go back to the old conservative values that your ignorant farmers had been trying to embrace for the last 220 years.

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By MarthaA, August 6, 2010 at 6:29 pm Link to this comment

BR549, August 6 at 3:57 pm,

You can believe all of that garbage you are putting out if you want to, it is your choice, but the average American deceived into thinking he/she is a part of Conservatism is the problem. 

The average Midwestern American farmer voting Conservative Republican is voting directly against his own best interest.

The average Midwestern American farmer is trying to get by and paying everything he makes to survive, he is not a Conservative, because he makes payments and has nothing to conserve.

Conservatism is neither freedom nor democracy.

The average Midwestern American farmer should not be a Conservative Republican, but a Liberal Democrat. 

I remember, when Hubert Humphrey was alive the people knew the Democratic Party stood for laborers and farmers as the Democratic Party was called the Democratic Farmer and Labor Party, but when the Neo-Cons Conservative Revolution got control of the Democratic Farmer and Labor Party, the Neo-Cons changed the liberal party to more reflect Conservatism, like the Republican Party that never has represented farmers and laborers, and started pushing Conservatism, as if Conservatism is liberal, when conservatism is the exact opposite of liberal, progressive, or innovative; but Conservatism does present itself as Liberal to the unwary unknowing.

The Democratic Farmer Labor Party is still the name of the Democratic Party in Minnesota, Hubert Humphrey’s home state, and should return to representing farmers and laborers, but it will not until the populace have the guts to kick all the Conservatism out of the Democratic Farmer and Laborer Party and return it to the populace for which is was intended.

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By MarthaA, August 6, 2010 at 5:53 pm Link to this comment

BR549, August 6 at 3:57 pm,

As long as the average American farmer is Conservative, he is voting for a New World Order whether he knows it or not, because the New World Order is being brought in by Conservatism; full Conservatism on the Right and partial Conservatism on the Left.  Conservatism is the problem.  The solution is to keep Conservatism on the Right, because the average American farmer is deceived, thinking he is a Conservative while he is paying everything he has to survive and has nothing to conserve.  Conservatism is NOT freedom and democracy.

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By BR549, August 6, 2010 at 11:57 am Link to this comment

Martha,

The average midwestern farmer who voted Republican and who thought he was voting for conservative community and family values didn’t think he was voting for a Central Banking System, military state, to have his local community lose its unique individuality even more to the anonymity of a global New World Order, and that his vote would ultimately be taking us one step closer to fascist state.

No, HIS idea of Conservatism was to preserve his family’s tried and true set of values, and that is what HE was voting for. He just doesn’t know he was being lied to ..... just like the politicians passing themselves off as Democrats have hijacked any semblance of liberalism and progressivism and rewrapped that package in old bird cage liner so that all these HOPE and CHANGE dingbats can sing Kumbayyah while their party hands out free jars of Vaseline.

Just as your progressive philosophy isn’t copyrighted by the Democratic Party, so to isn’t the notion of old school heartland conservative values being copyrighted by the Republicans. The “Conservatives”, from a more accurate Hamiltonian Federalist definition, are living quite fat and happy on both sides of the aisle in Washington and don’t represent either constituency within the voting public. They represent themselves.

You’re thinking that the definition of Conservative is still stuck somewhere back in England’s support of the Tory Party, while the present day voting farmer in Iowa just wants his kids to keep up a successful family farm. The only difference here is that the legislators know the difference and the farmers do not, and it is THAT difference that, for lack of any better name, we’ll say, these “legislative traitors” have abused their position of authority, and used that misunderstanding of the term, “Conservatism”, to transfer more wealth and power away from the very people that had voted for them to preserve it in the first place.

Your argument holds no place for the millions of midwesterners who espouse those values. You’ve cast them to the wind in order to force this square peg into another round hole. Give them a break, for Christ’s sake.

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By Lawrence Baker, August 6, 2010 at 9:28 am Link to this comment

Big Oil, World Banksters and Obama are building a N.W.O secret bomb

Ignore Science

Top plugged

Breached pipe and 40% methane below

You know the gas and oil still flows

She flows the same as Top Kill

Into higher strata she blows

Makes for many flows

The bubble grows

The seafloor swells

All BP needs is more time

To build a ecological and economic bomb

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By MarthaA, August 5, 2010 at 9:50 am Link to this comment

BR549, August 5 at 9:18 am,

Conservatism is famous for parsing irresponsible talking points to justify intentionally irresponsible behavior.

My politics is what all members of the populace should be— to reclaim the Democratic Party for the populace, I am for representing Liberalism through the Democratic Party, as Liberalism is the ground that Conservatism stands on.

I am not for the Democratic Party and the Republican Party BOTH representing Conservatism, which is what is happening.  Without Liberalism there will be no progress, innovation, or creativity, all Conservatism does is conserve that which has been liberally created through liberal progress and innovation.

I have made it really plain that the Democratic Party needs cleaning up because Conservatism within the party is destroying the ground on which Conservatism stands, to make slaves of the populace, without considering that Conservatism is destroying themselves in the process.

One has to have the ability to understand that in the United States there are only two equally legitimate political parties; one to represent Liberalism, the now Democratic Party,  and the other to represent Conservatism, the now Republican Party,  unless this is understood, there is no defense politically for the liberal populace, who are the majority population of the United States.

Politics is leadership of constituents in their best interest and non-constituents against their best interest and both with a smile; nothing more—nothing less.

If the liberal populace doesn’t unify and know what is in their best interest, conservatism will lead the 70% UN-unified liberal populace against their best interest, which is what has happened in the United States and will continue unabated until the liberal populace learn that they are the liberal populace and unify in the one political party that is to represent the liberal populace. This is the long and the short of the crisis in America.

It is up to the members of the populace to realize who they are and unify and not follow Conservatism. Conservatism has blinded itself, as to what it is,
and when the blind leads the blind, both fall in the ditch, sooner or later. The liberal populace following conservatism’s talking heads like Rupert Murdoch’s FOX News Network propagandists Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Reilly, Sean Hannity and Sarah Palin and the likes of Newt Gingrich and his ilk is the blind leading the blind.

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By BR549, August 5, 2010 at 5:18 am Link to this comment

Re:  MarthaA, August 4 at 10:42 pm

“Conservatives represent aristocratic, corporate big money constituents.
Liberals represent the populace masses as their constituents.”

If that were the case, then we should have expected no support for Bush by
Billie-Bob and his cousin Gomer, or the millions of small midwestern farmers
who really did think that Osama was solely behind 9/11. Most of the people
who had voted for Bush were probably making less that $50K a year; what
other reason might you think they would vote for that sleazebag?

Could that have been because Bush played his religion card and poured his
syrupy dialogue of down home values onto an unsuspecting public? That was
how the bankers disguised themselves, and they’ve been hard at work in the
Democrat Party as well.

While people still convince themselves that “your” strategy is still alive, the
Global Banking people will continue to morph themselves so that the average
voter cannot tell who is friend and who is foe. Hamilton’s Federalist Party was
that party you speak of and it didn’t try to disguise itself. But then it found that
it had to morph itself into a party that would be more appeasing to the
populace. The Democratic Party was emerging and the bankers took the easiest
of two roads; they hijacked the Republican Party (no different than when the
NeoCons hijacked the Republican Party in 2000).

Before that point, the Republican Party representatives acted more like the
Democratic representatives of today and the Democratic Party was a bit of a
pipe dream. The Republicans, back then, had faith that their representatives
would be voting on their best behalf.

Some aspects of this philosophical morphing have managed to cross party
lines over the centuries, here and there, but I believe the real issue is that as
more voters discovered how destructive the banking influences were, the more
its evil representatives had to disguise themselves so that it became difficult
for the average voter to tell who he was voting for.

This has nothing to do with parties, Martha. I mean, it does superficially, but
your eyes are fixed on a baseball, while you’re sitting in the soccer bleachers.
“THEY” want you to think this is about parties, so that you can smugly sit back
and defend life as you know it, little realizing what the bigger picture really is.
And you bought it, hook, line, and sinker.

I think you’re still confusing the Democratic Party’s desire for change with the people’s real desire to change away from corruption. Meanwhile, if the bankers and aristocracy were out of the picture, you’d find that both Republican AND Democrat voters were probably very close in philosophies. The bankers NEED that level of divisiveness they’ve been creating all along. It keeps the people fighting amongst themselves instead of burning down Wall Street.

The Conservative Republican voters that actually did vote for Bush in 2000, did so because of values, not because they were trying to protect their family fortunes.

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By MarthaA, August 4, 2010 at 6:42 pm Link to this comment

BR549, August 4 at 9:59 pm,

Politics is leadership of constituents in their best interest and non-constituents against their best interest.

Conservatives represent aristocratic, corporate big money constituents.

Liberals represent the populace masses as their constituents.

Conservatives must be weeded out of the Democratic Party because all the Republican Party has is Conservatives and are always kicking people out because they are NOT Conservative enough, which is exactly what the Democratic Party must to do with all Conservatives and all those who aren’t Liberal enough.  All Moderates should be kicked out of the Democratic Party.

The Republicans kick all Liberals out of the Republican Party, so Democrats must kick all the Conservatives out of the Democratic Party, then the Political Spectrum will be balanced, as it should be.

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By BR549, August 4, 2010 at 5:59 pm Link to this comment

MarthaA, August 4 at 9:18 pm

“Those are liberal values you espouse—NOT conservative values.”

So now you’re a spokesperson for the Republicans in Grainbelt, Iowa? Maybe the real issue here is how close in philosophies we really all are .... and that we are all getting slammed with our own party’s version of Good Cop-Bad Cop so that the party elite can manipulate the elections as they wish. Stop and think about that. Maybe, when confronted with the actual truth, the people really aren’t all that far off in their thinking. Maybe the reason the people are squabbling so much is because each party needs their constituents to feel victimized by the philosophy of the other.

Maybe you’ve been listening too much to what the MEDIA “says” being Republican is about instead of driving out on the farm and finding out for yourself. We’ve all been lied to; you included. Get used to it and get over it. It isn’t what you think.

Morpheus would be telling you about now, “You’ve been living in a dream world, Martha.”

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By MarthaA, August 4, 2010 at 5:18 pm Link to this comment

BR549, August 4 at 8:03 pm,

Those are liberal values you espouse—NOT conservative values.

Change will have to be from Conservatism for the whole country back to the populace realizing they are the liberals, instead of thinking the populace is the conservative aristocracy.

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By BR549, August 4, 2010 at 4:03 pm Link to this comment

MarthaA, August 4 at 4:23 pm

“The Right-Wing is Conservatism and always will be.”

So, if the old school values of Conservatism, according to the average midwestern farmer, happen to embrace small town community relationships, going to church on Sunday, and putting in a hard days work; I guess you’re saying you have a problem with that, because except for the fringe elite which stole that party, as well, that was what the average midwestern Republicans think they’re voting for. If they’re a bit Hawkish, it’s only because some fleabag politician lied to them and told them that supporting the Republican Party was the only way to preserve the old ways. They don’t realize that the politicians lied to them too to make them think that the terrorists were hiding behind every tree in downtown Duluth.

Meanwhile, the brothers of those rat-bastard politicians have been lying to their Democrat constituents, as well, leaving them thinking that things are so screwed up and the only way out of the mess is through CHANGE. Well, that’s true, but it isn’t the change that the constituents are expecting. And that’s the part you’re still struggling with.

It still comes down to integrity, Martha, and the only way you’ll be able to gauge ANY of these used car salesmen turned politicians is to see what their voting records are concerning sovereignty, NAFTA, and the like. Go ahead, start asking them and watch the answers you get. It isn’t a pretty picture. These people, except for a few like Ron Paul, have sold their country out a long time ago.

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By MarthaA, August 4, 2010 at 12:23 pm Link to this comment

BR549, August 3 at 9:18 am,

When the Democratic Party is rebuilt, they will adhere to higher values than greed, or the Democratic Party will not be rebuilt.  The nation can’t just give it a lick and a promise, but actual correction has to be made by the populace for there to be change.  The Democratic Party has to be brought back to Left-Wing liberal, progressive, innovative values instead of holding onto Conservatism and taking our country back to the Stone Age.

The Right-Wing is Conservatism and always will be.

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By Night-Gaunt, August 3, 2010 at 8:33 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

MarthaA is caught up in the limited way of looking at things. If you digress or disagree you run the risk of being lumped in with the enemy. I know, I and others have been so by her and her other half—ThomasG. Just don’t get caught up in here reflex responses which so far you haven’t. Good show.

Parties mean less these days as identifiers. The crypto-fascists* that have infiltrated the only two offical parties, & the Libertarian Party too. Look at their adjenda by what they continue to do & those who help them to get it done either passively or actively. Then there is the rest of us on the side lines watching as our tottering Republic dies a choking death. Parasites from within.

Look at what they support, what they will fight for and what they do not. I didn’t give Obama anything but a chance. I went by what he supported either directly or indirectly. We now have Gingrich/Romney corporate healthcare, without any protections. Proves to me what kind of person they are who fought for this nadir we will see in action in 2014. MarthaA needs to look beyond, deeper into who is doing what, not party affiliation or what they say. Do that and you step into a larger world and it is ugly.

*If such a descriptive bothers you then call them authoritarians and feel better.

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By BR549, August 3, 2010 at 5:18 am Link to this comment

MarthaA, August 3 at 12:37 am

“BR549, No way, you can’t get around the GOP, if you think so, you have really
been propagandized.”

Well, now we have the pot calling the kettle black, haven’t we? Because until
you’re able to address the real issues going on behind the curtain, you’re ship
will be operating without a compass. You’ll still be focusing on tried and true
values of some arcane set of Democratic ideals, while the crooks walk off with
the cash register .... again. You can rebuild the Democrat Party all you want but
until you get the “legislators” of that party to adhere to a higher ideal, you’ll be
back to square one in a heartbeat. When that higher ideal is also embraced by
the Republican Party, then it won’t make any difference which party gets
elected.

You’re hung up on this notion that conservatism HAS TO BE about corporatism,
but that’s only how the system had become contorted. Similarly, you’re hung
up on this Progressive/Liberal mumbo-jumbo, which certainly has its place, but
which isn’t going to bail out this ship in its current state.

As long as the stress of the global banking forces continues to force citizens
and politicians into partaking of the apple, the higher ideals and the higher
potential accomplishments of the human race will never be seen. The
globalists are themselves a cancer. They represent the worst of everything that
mankind has to offer, because they pedal fear, distrust, hoarding, loathing,
disgust, cheating, stealing, killing, and a host of other negative attributes I’m
missing at the moment.

THAT is who these people are, and the politicians are their direct minions,
serving dutifully to implement that set of self-destructive Satanesque mores
that have kept mankind from doing anything really meaningful with this planet
except to act like one more out of control species that’d be better off
eradicated.

Until you shift the loyalties of those in power so that they can openly denounce
THAT (above), you’ll be just another Obama supporter waving their arms back
and forth in the crowd, singing “We Are the World” with tears in your eyes, and
sucking up all the Hope and Change crap, all over again. They’ll be handing out
Vaseline, too.

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By MarthaA, August 2, 2010 at 8:37 pm Link to this comment

BR549, August 2 at 10:12 pm,

No way, you can’t get around the GOP, if you think so, you have really been propagandized.

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By BR549, August 2, 2010 at 6:12 pm Link to this comment

No Martha, it can ALSO be the Republican Party. You’re just still hung up on
some arcane terminology. If the Republican Party were to embrace integrity and
honesty, it would accomplish a parallel correction to a Democratic Party, were
that also to embrace integrity and honesty.

Whether Republicans overnight adopted a conscience, espoused smaller but but
responsible government, and threw their money into businesses in order to to
provide jobs for American workers, who in turn made products for American
consumers, how is that in any way different from Democrats, who overnight
grew a conscience and decided not to spent money like a drunken sailor, while
they also opted for lesser government, but with a focus on benefits for all the
citizens?

As long as either party refocuses its energies on the people, the outcomes are
virtually the same; the entire country wins. The problem is that BOTH parties
are now corrupted by the Global Banking Party and the first thing that must be
done (where I think we agree) is to dump the Fed.

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By MarthaA, August 2, 2010 at 4:19 pm Link to this comment

The populace must come together united as “we the people” en masse in order to have enough power to defeat the aristocracy/corporatocracy; separating as Democrats, Republicans, Independents and Greens divides the populace to where a mosquito could take over, but if the populace will unify, there is no force that can stand against a unified populace, but it can’t be in the REPUBLICAN PARTY with the Republican’s Tea Party, because that is planned obsolescence of the populace.

We the people are the liberal populace, that is being undermined and marginalized to no effect, while the REPUBLICAN conservative aristocracy, fascist corporatocracy conserves all the benefit of the nation for the aristocracy/corporatocracy.

We only have two equal fully legitimate political parties.  The aristocracy/corporatocracy’s GOP is the REPUBLICAN PARTY, and the only other political party is the Democratic Party, which will have to be used to unite the populace one and all, carefully with purpose to use the Democratic Party to accomplish ridding the United States of the fascist Right-Wing fungus that has taken hold, but in order to accomplish this task, it will take nearly the entire 70% Majority population of populace Republicans, populace Independents, populace Greens, and populace Democrats uniting for the purpose of kicking the fascist DLC controllers out of the Democratic Party.  When the fascist controllers are kicked out of the Democratic Party, it will not be hard to regain control of the country for democracy, as the Republican Party will fall in line, if the populace ever decide to take control.

Rupert Murdoch’s PAID “Tea Party Bunch” that is Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Reilly, and Sean Hannity and others of the FOX News Network, along with Conservative Right-Winger REPUBLICANS Dick Armey, Newt Gingrich, Pat Buchanan, Dick Cheney, Ralph Reed, Karl Rove, Grover Norquist, Bill Kristol, Phil Gramm and many more REPUBLICAN EXTREMISTS are trying to do the Adolph Hitler/Benito Mussolini thing and gain political control of the U.S. government by being against “social justice” like the other leaders of fascist regimes, who used that tactic against the populace and along with murder, gained complete control of their governments, and this is their plan and the reason they run down President Obama, liberals, progressives, community, unions, socialism, socialists, liberalism and the populace to the populace. President Obama was voted in on the liberal side of the political spectrum, so conservative EXTREMISTS hate him and everything he stands for.

When Conservatism’s Rupert Murdoch’s conservative propagandists harp about being against “social justice”, it makes it plain what they are trying to do if one is aware of how other fascist regimes took over their government, and these propagandists are doing the same “social justice” thing.
 
The FASCIST tyrant Adolph Hitler was against “social justice”, and the FASCIST tyrant Benito Mussolini was against “social justice”——it is clear than Rupert Murdoch’s paid propagandist Glenn Beck and the rest if the New World Order Gang of REPUBLICAN Tea Partiers are up to following in past tyrants footsteps; therefore, the REPUBLICAN PARTY, disguised as the Tea Party, in hopes of ONE PARTY RULE,  is not the party of populace democracy; because in Hitler fashion, the Republican Party has set up and joined with the Tea Party and is ready to take over the country for ONE PARTY RULE and are using the Tea Party as their means to that end.

Senator Bernie Sanders says, “Rally the People” http://www.commondreams.org/video/2010/08/02-0

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By Lawrence Baker, August 2, 2010 at 11:05 am Link to this comment

Martha said: “There you go again running President Obama down.  Are you into sophism? Because you couldn’t sound more like a Conservative Republican EXTREMIST.  You probably hold to every word Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin utter, don’t you?”


That’s it, Martha, spit out all of the venom and you will feel better!


For shame and lack of self awareness that you should blindly accuse us of representing the “Conservative” in our arguments, yet not provide one example or argument. Your advanced stages of self delusion have set in and all you can do is blow snot bubbles and foam at the mouth.


Reason and common sense is wasted on your blind fervent BELIEF, your mind is shut and you pick and choose what you want to believe. You are not a truth digger who looks at all the facts and their correlations and carefully presents an opinion based on researched material. My opinion changes with the facts. The more facts I have, the stronger the opinion. I am constantly looking for facts to change my opinion. My opinion may be contrary to my feelings and what I would like to believe because the facts point to something else that I don’t want to believe None the less, my opinion must follow the facts if my FEELINGS like it or not.

What feelings you present are contradictory but you are oblivious to that fact. To you “Liberal” is chocolate and “Conservative” is grapefruit; what you like is liberal and what you don’t like is conservative; belief and feelings trumps fact and truth.

MarthaA said: “Would you have been happier if President Obama had vetoed the money for the troops in Afghanistan?  The Conservatives would have passed it anyway, and FOX News would have had a wonderful time propagandizing how President Obama wouldn’t take care of the troops to keep him from being reelected in 2012; CNN would have followed suit and all the media would have been falling all over themselves faulting President Obama for not supporting the troops, it would have been a super big thing blown way out of proportion with all the former military generals complaining that we need a new president that will support the troops.”

Now, there is a good example of the weenie Liberal that can’t make a stand, like a child, all they can do is whine. I supported you when you started to show a little backbone by saying that the Democrat Party should purge the conservative element from the Party; your call to action ended up to be just another weenie whine.

You are so cavalier and insensitive to War funding although 85% of our population is against the War (oh, what will the opposition think) that you are ugly. Someone should strap you to a chair for 12 hours and force you to watch the innocent families killed and all the human suffering that your borrowed tax dollars pay for. Instead of telling you that these victims are Iraq, Afghanistan or Pakistan they should tell you that the attacks are in Oregon, California, Washington and the other states.

Another important fact you completely ignore is the fall of our precious American Democracy. Those of us who are students of history take keen interest in this historic occasion; indeed, we get to live through the transition in our lifetime.  We have watched the Fascist and global Totalitarians corrupt overthrow progress over the years and now it is at full culmination.

War and Revolution is Hell and mass insanity with much human suffering; you should empathize with the victims because it is coming to your neighborhood. You don’t deserve any better and can only learn the hard way; by the time you figure it out it will be too late for Democracy and anything Liberal for and by the People.

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By MarthaA, August 1, 2010 at 11:18 am Link to this comment

BR549, August 1 at 2:01 pm,

Excuse me, I thought we were talking about political, are you a political Conservative?  In politics there is no other conservative,  bookkeepers and accountants handle all the fiscal, everything else is propaganda.

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By BR549, August 1, 2010 at 10:01 am Link to this comment

MarthaA, August 1 at 11:50 am
BR549
“Are you a Conservative?  I ask because you totally leave out of your scenario
that Congress has anything to do with this picture.”  —->  If so, then you’ve
been too busy loading your cannons before reading what I had actually been
writing.

“..... forget Democrat and Republican; there is an over supply of political
Conservatives in Congress.”

==============

While you are still getting hung up on these monikers, I’ll state that it is
possible for members of the population to be “functionally conservative”
without also being “politically conservative”. There are many people in the
voting population who work hard for a living and who have never understood
that politicians are like a used car salesman who comes up and says he’s your
friend. Whether Democrat or Republican, nothing about our current political
system is functionally conservative. Far from it. Right now, these assholes have
bastardized the English language so much that none of the terms are accurate.

=============

A progressive/liberal voter looks for their politician to maximize the societal
benefits to the people through the ever increasing ability of government and to
fill in missing voids in caring for its population. They also see that a society
must also care for its weak and infirmed and those less fortunate. They give
over control to politicians they think they can trust, thinking that there might
actually be intelligent souls in Congress that do nothing everyday except find
ways to make the whole system work better.

In reality, what happens is that their politicians use this opportunity to impose
more rules and regulations, which ultimately translate into more and higher
taxes, onto an already overburdened population and that at every turn in the
road provides yet one more opportunity for that miasm we call a government
to create even more vehicles for the government to wrest more control from
the individual sovereign states.

=============

A conservative voter believes their politician is either more fiscally responsible
or, on the sly and behind the backs of individuals in the population who do
seem to want to work for a living, passes legislation that will help better
preserve that voter’s hard earned nest egg before the government finds some
way to steal it.

In reality, their politicians, just like the liberal politicians, had only their careers
in mind by getting elected or they had so little life’s experience under their belt
that they allowed money to put themselves into a position of power so that they
could cram their myopic view of the world down everyone else’s throat.

=============

In the end, the parties’ intentions or philosophies have nothing to do with
government. Instead, the motives behind both of of our major parties is about
the acquisition and consolidation of personal power under the “guise” of public
service.

We differ, I believe, because I feel that both parties could be useful if
individuals became more interested in helping society than helping themselves.
This in no way implies socialism, but rather a state of responsible social
stewardship, which our current politicians don’t have a GD clue about. Either
party could do it, but as long as thievery and corruption are allowed to
proliferate in Washington, only a revolution or a nuke will knock those
ignoramuses’ fat asses out of the seats we paid for.

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By MarthaA, August 1, 2010 at 7:50 am Link to this comment

BR549, July 31 at 8:40 am,

Are you a Conservative?  I ask because you totally leave out of your scenario that Congress has anything to do with this picture. 

Conservatives in Congress on the Left are the problem.  If the United States had a totally Liberal Democratic Party, there would be no problem.  The populace must realize that all Conservatives must be kept to the Right.  It is not a matter of Democratic and Republican, no matter what the political leaning,  it is a matter of Liberal and Conservative, forget Democrat and Republican; there is an over supply of political Conservatives in Congress.

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By BR549, July 31, 2010 at 4:40 am Link to this comment

Martha,

As Lawrence had so eloquently point out, I too was one of those, who on
election night, had goose bumps and had a tear in his eye. Yes, I had originally
sought to support the independents because it was only THEY who were
speaking the truth about the most crucial aspects of the election; NAFTA.

NAFTA wasn’t just a talking point among the candidates, it was standard for
politicians to secretly rally around, as was the the Roman’s bullshit use of the
abbreviation SPQR. By avoiding any real discussion of NAFTA, ALL of the non-
independent candidates were silently showing their support or tolerance for it,
and Obama stood out among the entire crowd as the only one who wouldn’t
make his feelings known. That was no accident.

I eventually saw how all the NAFTA opponents were summarily dismissed by
the main stream media and pushed to the sidelines so that the panning of the
camera would always include just another peak at the “chosen ones”; McCain,
Romney, Obama, and Clinton, on the camera’s way over to those exiled
independent candidates.

On election eve, as I saw the crowds of people in tears, I actually had thought I
had made a mistake in not having supported him (Obama). I thought that I
must have been too blinded by my pessimism and pursuit of conspiracy
theories from the previous four administrations, and that maybe, this time, we
might actually have a chance to rebuild this fractured mess of a country.

I don’t know exactly how long it took to awaken out of that dream state, but
within a period three to four months, perhaps, I began to see tendencies that
further supported the Bush agenda (actually, the Reagan/Bush/Clinton/Bush
agenda). And it was about then that I realized that we had been fucked ......
again.

The reason none of these programs is working is because it was never
supposed to. NAFTA wasn’t just some quaint gift shop one stopped at during a
Caribbean cruise; it was an actual destination, unbeknownst to the passengers,
with a prison on the island for when the cruise ship returned home empty. And
Obama has NAFTA written all over him. NAFTA is all about the failure of our
manufacturing base (remember, this started with Bush the elder) and the
continued avoidance by our legislatures and presidents to actually use the
existing immigration laws that are on the books. It will be our ticket for a
president (if we ever make it past 2012) to use yet another false flag event to
find some flimsy way to initiate marshall law and suspend the Constitution. It
will be at that point when, “for our own good”, we will be marched right into
the American Union and the globalists will have succeeded in breaking the
back of American sovereignty.

So, that itty-bitty little discussion point, that Obama and Hilary continually see
as table chatter, should be seen by the American citizenry as ONE HUGE
SWASTIKA about ready to come right through YOUR front door. But as Lawrence
pointed out, you’ll probably be one of those who were promoted from within
the ranks and actually leaving boot marks on granny’s writhing body, burning
the books, all the while dutifully looking skyward as the angelic image of
Obama drifts into your mind.

So, do not for one minute accuse me of not having had faith in Obama, even
though I may have come on board a bit later. The fact is, Martha, that I found
out where this ship was really headed and I jumped over the rail. I can deal
with the real sharks more easily.

As an American citizen, I am appalled at how much these “politicians” of ours
drape themselves in the American flag and then spent the rest of their terms
using it to masturbating on.

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By MarthaA, July 30, 2010 at 11:31 pm Link to this comment

Lawrence Baker, July 31 at 2:39 am,

There you go again running President Obama down.  Are you into sophism? Because you couldn’t sound more like a Conservative Republican EXTREMIST.  You probably hold to every word Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin utter, don’t you?

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By Lawrence Baker, July 30, 2010 at 10:39 pm Link to this comment

MarthA: There are two words that you constantly hide behind and those are “Liberal” and “Conservative” which you convolute to meet your own blind belief in Uncle Tom Obama. Like a lover, you are blind to his lies and contrary behavior.

I will bet that you were like many of the thousands of fanatics that cried and had the greatest ecstasy in their life when Obama was inaugurated. You were hopelessly snake bit from that point on.

There is a place for you on Obama’s team. He wants to start mandatory service for young and old to the Federal Government. You would excel in the Corps all you need is loyalty; blind unquestioning loyalty is the best. You, of course, would be an officer of propaganda and have a nice uniform and nobody would dare disagree with you.

Br549 mentioned the Weimar Democracy in Germany that fell to Fascist followed by Totalitarianism and parallels to the fall of our Democracy. If fact, the Secret Service, civil corps, prison industry, military might and world domination are all old concepts from the Nazi era and Obama is the “Liberal Democrat Party” salesman.

I notice you use the term “Democratic Party” on occasion but that is incorrect and should be “Democrat Party”. Democratic is a system.

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By MarthaA, July 30, 2010 at 8:40 pm Link to this comment

Lawrence Baker, July 30 at 11:27 pm,

As much as you want to make President Obama the sole enemy, you are way off base and dead wrong; President Obama had to play the cards he was dealt by the Congress in the beginning and continues to have to play the cards he is dealt by the Conservative Congress and hope for the Right-Wing media propagandized populace to send him a better Congress.

Would you have been happier if President Obama had vetoed the money for the troops in Afghanistan?  The Conservatives would have passed it anyway, and FOX News would have had a wonderful time propagandizing how President Obama wouldn’t take care of the troops to keep him from being reelected in 2012; CNN would have followed suit and all the media would have been falling all over themselves faulting President Obama for not supporting the troops, it would have been a super big thing blown way out of proportion with all the former military generals complaining that we need a new president that will support the troops.

Besides Rupert Murdoch’s FOX News Network and all his media outlets being a real enemy of the populace and the Obama administration, the biggest enemy of the populace and the Obama administration is all the Conservatives on the Left in Congress——So, it is NOT just President Obama, as most of these Conservatives in Congress are the same Conservatives that were in Congress during the Bush administration——little has change in Congress, other than the fact that this bunch voted for everything on the Bush Agenda, but do their best to ignore President Obama’s Agenda, if it isn’t Conservative, which is supporting war.

Republicans propagandize like everything was suppose to change when President Obama took office, and apparently you buy the propaganda.  The only thing that changed was a new Presidential Administration that had to deal with the same Congress that does what it wants to, and this Congress has helped get some of President Obama’s Agenda passed, but they have kicked out an awful lot.  You seem to blame the President for everything the Congress does.  Conservatives are going to follow a Right-Wing War Agenda — Conservative is the Right-Wing of politics.

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