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Posted on Nov 12, 2010

By Eugene Robinson

“Why don’t they fight back?”

That’s the question I’ve been hearing from the Democratic Party’s stunned and dispirited base. For the past month, I’ve been on a book tour that has taken me to Asheville, N.C., Terre Haute, Ind., Austin, Texas, and elsewhere. Everywhere I go, supporters of President Obama and his agenda ask me why so many Democrats in Washington don’t stand up for what they say they believe.

I confess that I don’t have a good answer. What I can say with confidence, however, is that the White House and Democrats in Congress ignore these grumblings at their peril. Call it polarization, call it conviction, call it whatever you like: These are not wishy-washy times. If you don’t stand for something, you get run over.

We saw this principle in action last week. Anomie among the Democratic base was not the main reason the party suffered what Obama called a “shellacking” in the midterms, but clearly it was a factor. Elements of the party’s traditional coalition—minorities, women, young people—voted in much smaller numbers than they did in 2008. The “enthusiasm gap” turned out to be real, and it had real consequences.

I’ve been hearing frustration at the willingness of Democrats to accommodate a Republican Party that refuses to give an inch. To progressives who may not understand the subtleties of inside-the-Beltway thinking, this looks like surrender.

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Wednesday night, I gave a talk at Indiana State University. “You watch,” said a man in the audience, “the Democrats are going to cave on the tax cuts for the rich, just like they caved on everything else.”

Sure enough, on Thursday I awoke to read the Huffington Post’s interview with White House senior adviser David Axelrod, in which he appeared to signal that Obama—with great reluctance—might have to accept an extension of George W. Bush’s tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans after all. Otherwise, Republicans would continue to block the Democrats’ preferred course of action, which is to extend the full tax cuts only for those making less than $250,000 a year.

Axelrod later denied that the White House is giving in. I hope that’s the case, but his words didn’t exactly convey flinty resolve.

Let’s examine this issue a little more closely. Making the tax cuts permanent for the wealthy would increase the deficit by $700 billion over the next decade. Which party claims to be urgently, desperately concerned about the deficit? The Republicans, of course. So which party is prepared to bust the budget, if that’s what it takes, in order to serve the interests of the rich? The GOP. And which party, to get its way, refuses to approve desperately needed tax relief for the bruised-and-battered middle class? Once again, the Republicans.

Now, which party holds the presidency and, until January, ample majorities in both houses of Congress? That would be the Democrats. Which party can point to public opinion polls indicating that Americans support its position that the Bush tax cuts should be extended only for the middle class? That, too, would be the Democrats. And finally, which party somehow appears to be looking for a way to lose this argument and capitulate? Incredibly, the Democrats.

The conventional wisdom in Washington is that those who say the lesson from last week’s drubbing is that progressives should get a spine simply “don’t get it.” The explanation given by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and some others—that aside from stubbornly high unemployment, one contributing factor was the Democrats’ failure to explain their program and counter Republican misinformation—is seen by the conventionally wise as delusional. 

But I’ve been meeting an awful lot of progressives around the country who share that delusion, if that’s what it is. They despair that their neighbors don’t know that it was George W. Bush who proposed the TARP bailout, not Obama—or that it worked, or that taxpayers are getting their money back. They wonder how health care reform came to be defined not as a moral issue or a way to slow rising costs, which it is, but as a “big government takeover,” complete with “death panels.” Which it isn’t.

What I’m hearing is frustration, and it’s getting louder. I’m hearing the view that the Obama administration, which has done much good, can do better—by speaking clearly, standing its ground—and, when pushed by bullies, shoving back. 

Eugene Robinson’s e-mail address is eugenerobinson(at)washpost.com.
   
© 2010, Washington Post Writers Group


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Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 27, 2010 at 1:03 pm Link to this comment

Re: BR549, December 27 at 5:09 am

You State: If you want to have a REAL dialogue sometime, great, I’ll be around and I can be civil, but if you’re going to keep up with this imbecilic pseudo-intellectual verbiage, where you continue to pass yourself off as some self-appointed brain trust, I have other things to do. Have a nice day. I’m signing off of this thread. You should too.”

Response: More inferior excuses from the shivering dank cold slavish mentally to clearly see through the fog of their freely chosen self-subjugation of systemic fraud, that all we’ve proffered, is the undeniable opportunity for reasonable dialog.

But like I’ve said many times before, you can’t dialog with those incapable of honorable discourse, when their unwilling to read the evidenced proffered via the web links for reasons earlier stated, in our previous postings. I must presume your totally without honor or honesty to confront the systemic issues of fraud because you are to vested in perpetrating such misrepresentations our premises prove!!!!

I’ve noticed you’ve failed to touch upon any solution you might reasonably consider proffering, to the overwhelming evidence of misrepresentation foisted upon All Walks of Life globally as requested. You have deliberately avoided our previous challenge to one who claims cerebral superiority but only dignifies his debate with aspersions to hide their inept ability to do otherwise!

Keep barking like the self-subjugated Dogs of War for the elite who enslave you as sheep to sheer, as I seek to foster solutions to those waking up to their own demise!!!   

Just like any fully trained obedient slave, your failure to confront any true empirical evidence which exposes your slavish condition and dialog us from the perspective of the Science of Right Reason, shows your ineptitude to help, guide, or lead those you claim are failing to act according to your directives. I can’t see them acting any other way in all honesty. When all they see or hear from you, is a repeated rotatory mindset of imbecilic excuses!

In support of the aforementioned, one only has to avail themselves of these facts by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

And if one chooses, they may chose to click on the web link (http://seagov.net/) found within the aforementioned earlier web link given, for further simple discussions, appertaining to the Right of Self-determination of All Walks of Life, to evolve in the interest of Universal Peace and the supporting constructs applicable thereto.

We honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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BR549's avatar

By BR549, December 27, 2010 at 12:09 am Link to this comment

Orbis the Magnificent,

And here we go again with this crap ..... tell me, what goddamn planet are you from?

“...... we honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise via the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah. For further info review this link: http://seagov.net/”. Christ, you’ve posted this same shit 20 times now.

And you want me to take you seriously? Somewhere in that mind of yours is some intelligent underpinnings, I know, I can see it in there, but your ego is like the great wall of China, Orby, and quite frankly, you can continue on with your quixotic rants all by yourself. I’m sure when you can’t find anyone else to dialogue with, you’ll continue to just converse with yourself. If I have nothing else to do, I might check in on you in a month or two, to see how you’re doing. It would be interesting to see who is winning, you or you, because it is, after all, all about you. If it makes you feel better, keep holding that thought that I can’t spar with you intellectually. The fact is, however, you’re still just a pompous ass, and your ego will continue to be your own downfall. Mussolini had an ego problem too, and he wound up upside down bleeding into the street. So, go ahead, knock yourself out.

If you want to have a REAL dialogue sometime, great, I’ll be around and I can be civil, but if you’re going to keep up with this imbecilic pseudo-intellectual verbiage, where you continue to pass yourself off as some self-appointed brain trust, I have other things to do. Have a nice day. I’m signing off of this thread. You should too.

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Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 26, 2010 at 11:30 pm Link to this comment

Re: BR549, December 27 at 3:23 am

You State: “You see commentary by anyone who sees through your facade as a character assassination. Actually, I hadn’t even started yet.”

Response: Ignorance nor imbecility arising from ill mannered debate, is any excuse for failing to debate the underlying issues presented to you honorably via any web links, which are used because this forum dictates written comments to less than 4000 characters.

But I’m sure with your genius, you could find better ways to touch upon voluminous material to prove such enormous fraud being perpetrated by Role Models in every geopolitical society globally speaking…couldn’t you? If so, prove us wrong and present your counter points to our premises raised within the web links you’ve complained so ineffectually, by doing so more effectively!!! 

Plus, I never entered this forum to parade insolently with the incompetent. Rather I entered this forum in hopes that there might be individuals reasonably capable of confronting empirical evidence for their own well being and chose to seek solutions once apprised thereof.

And you right! You haven’t even started with your stupidity of insolent behavior! When does a child ever think that their tirades are sufficient, when their requests are confronted with calm reasonable denial. Rather than to surrender to their level of childishness?

All in all, I suspect your capable of nothing less than romper room tactics! Why? You’ve shown me nothing which would entail otherwise! I am convinced that your incapable of debating the facts because your incapable of proving the premises incorrect. Just as 1000s of attorney’s have tried and failed!

Or, just to scared and dumbfounded to acknowledge the facts after learning what these facts or premises mean, for someone unwilling to accept that their intellectual pride has led them into absolute subjugation without questioning. What’s that old saying, e.g., ‘pride proceeds a fall!’ Welcome to your unending fall brethren, for failing to advance reasonably, when others have only reasoned with you to avoid your own freely chosen demise! 

But I’m sure your wiser than Ivy League graduates or Chartered International Jurists who have greater respect for empirical premises that don’t dare attempt to controvert the incontrovertible empirical evidence proffered via the same web links your little pathetic cerebral capacities retreat from confronting, due to your own excuses for failure to face your own deceitful pride!

Honestly, if it were possible for you to disprove the evidenced proffered, it is without question, you would have responded with much greater respect in retort to our challenge.

Why? Because those with honorable abilities to debate generally, respond with civility when the rewards are much greater! Such as Greater Respect for a well thought out counter position, when arising from effectually confronting any unsound footing of reason proffered by another!

And as proof of your marvelous cerebral capacities to ineffectually disprove our premises, all you’ve offered to date, is insolent behavior. Why should we expect you to alter your perfect condition, you’ve chosen for such perfect subjugation?

So, not wanting to disappoint your own insolent pride, we honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise via the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah. For further info review this link: http://seagov.net/.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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BR549's avatar

By BR549, December 26, 2010 at 10:23 pm Link to this comment

Orbis the Pontificator,
“Son, you know you’ve won the field of any debate, when those you’ve debated begin to respond only with character assassination. As he puts it, “the guilty dog barks first!”

If that floats your boat, go for it. Your dad was half right, though; but anyone could merely get frustrated arguing with an idiot, but that doesn’t negate his argument one bit. So far, all you’ve been doing is pontificating about your beloved “www.scribd.com/rahyah” crap since Nov 13th and continued to spew the same verbiage OVER and OVER and OVER. And we’re supposed to somehow believe that you have some elevated level of consciousness above the rest of us ......

You see commentary by anyone who sees through your facade as a character assassination. Actually, I hadn’t even started yet.

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Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 26, 2010 at 3:04 pm Link to this comment

Re: BR549, December 26 at 7:33 pm

You State: The reason you don’t seem to be getting the responses you desire is because no one here, me included, feels like taking part in your own personal rendition of “One Flew Over the Cuckcoo’s Nest”.

Response: Like Grandpa stated to me on many occasions, when I sought his guidance concerning individuals unwilling to dialog in any semblance of cognitive reasoning resembling logic…“Son, you know you’ve won the field of any debate, when those you’ve debated begin to respond only with character assassination. As he puts it, “the guilty dog barks first!”

Grandpa also taught me how to create and/or arrange a debate with the outcome inevitably ending in character assassination of your opponent, as the only venue open to describe those unwilling to confront the issues honorably and remain justified in doing so within the Minds of the audience!!!

So to put it as Grandpa would put it, what you claim respective to being a pompous ass or living in a Cuckoo’s nest, must squarely fit your inner most cerebral matrix of character! Since, like so many of your perfect condition, for which your own self-subjugation is perfect for, you refuse to disprove our empirical evidence but seem to be willing to expose your imbecilic retorts as counterpoint to our reasonable facts until honorably proven otherwise!

So, keep barking like the Dogs of War for the elite who enslave you as sheep to sheer, as I continue seeking to foster solutions to those waking up to their own demise!!!

In support of the aforementioned, one only has to avail themselves of these facts by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

And if one chooses, they may chose to click on the web link (http://seagov.net/) found within the aforementioned earlier web link given, for further simple discussions, appertaining to the Right of Self-determination of All Walks of Life, to evolve in the interest of Universal Peace and the supporting constructs applicable thereto.

We honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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BR549's avatar

By BR549, December 26, 2010 at 2:33 pm Link to this comment

Orbis the Pontificator,

What a pompous ass. It probably hasn’t occurred to you that the reason no one else has been responding to you is because you keep spewing the same lame drivel (http://www.scribd.com/rahyah). What’s this, the 18th time and you still can’t understand why no traffic on the subject? Most people might think you to be a bit (How do I say this?) .... SLOW !!!  I think I can speak for at least some here by stating that your canonical pontifications are nothing more than the mental exudate of your ego run amok.

The reason you don’t seem to be getting the responses you desire is because no one here, me included, feels like taking part in your own personal rendition of “One Flew Over the Cuckcoo’s Nest”.

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By garth, December 26, 2010 at 1:20 pm Link to this comment

Obama’s, “I am persistent.” reminds me of the bemused college graduate with nothing but C-minuses and Ds on his transcript, telling the Dean of Admission of some Graduate school that he doesn’t want to ‘rest on his laurels.’

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By garth, December 26, 2010 at 1:11 pm Link to this comment

American Political Psychobabble:

Richard Nixon, “I am not a crook.”

Christine O’Donnell, “I’m not a witch.”

Barack Obama, “I am persistent [Read: feckless]”

Frank Luntz demonstrated the new Orwellian-type inversion of language and its meaning on C-SPAN yesterday.

I use a phrase in the current vernacular: I don’t think we want to go there.

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Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 26, 2010 at 12:56 pm Link to this comment

Re: BR549, December 26 at 5:08 am.

You State: “For the life of me, I’m now trying to remember how the heck we even got onto this tangent. I must be having a late night senior moment.”

Response: Let me remind you that eternal vigilance capable of self-governance have no senior moments! They appoint the Guards of Honor to assure reasonable recourse to any condition which may be deemed necessary to respond within the protocols appointed to determine objectivity or subjectivity, of any actions perceived or proffered, in disrespectful confrontation of the facts to prove otherwise. 

You Stated: November 17 at 11:18 pm. “Orby is going to continue his drivelous psychobabble no matter how much you come back with real life explanations or examples, so don’t waste your time. As I said, he sounds well versed, but trying to preach Islam to a group of Jews would have about the same effect, (no offense to our patriotic Muslim-American brothers).”

And, You State: “I’m not trying to be offensive here, but you’ve made virtually no attempt to clarify yourself except to use a slightly different flavor of the same verbiage.”

Response: Let’s not quibble over what your trying to do offensively or is not clarification, concerning positions or evidence we’ve proffered. Rather let’s just paint the canvas with the verbiage which best exposes your propositions concerning clarity, our mental State or otherwise!

Apparently you are incapable or unwilling to determine the difference between objectivity and subjectivity! Your failure to see and/or read the objectivity of our empirical evidence proffered (http://seagov.net/) & (http://www.scribd.com/rahyah) supporting beyond any reasonable doubt our subjective premises posted via this forum, concerning the Populace your incapable of assisting, exposes you as either an agent provocateur for the systemic governance of misrepresentation being foisted upon billions of unsuspecting victims globally or just plain stupid!!!! Which is it?

As the saying goes “Man-Up!” Or “Shut-Up!”

Your failure to confront the true evidence of your condition and dialog us from the perspective of the Science of Right Reason,  shows your ineptitude to help, guide, or lead those you claim are failing to act according to your directives. I can’t see them acting any other way in all honesty. When all they see or hear from you, is a rotatory mindset of imbecilic excuses! Not unlike so many posters herein, or even the Editor and Chief of this forum!

It is a known fact that to educate or dialog one another, respective to any viewpoint, the simplest tool is to present either the facts or formula and ask the audience to prove the outcome to be otherwise!

In your mind, as in any mindset perpetrating misrepresentations and not wishing to be proven wrong (because to do so would expose the weakness of your propositions or stated facts), you choose to cast character suppositions of negativism, in hopes of herding the audience of untrained minds away from the impact of the empirical evidence proffered, while keeping them from seeing their true State or mental condition of programmed fraud foisted upon them, and any solution which might extricate them from their demise!

In support of the aforementioned, one only has to avail themselves of these facts by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

We honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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BR549's avatar

By BR549, December 26, 2010 at 12:08 am Link to this comment

Orby,
Considering that The Matrix was a trilogy and not everyone might endeavor to put all three episodes to scrutiny, the first episode, by itself, was reflective of the average person being confronted with the chance to see what reality was all about. For those who say that reality is what we make it, while true, does little to pacify one’s need to reach a higher understanding of the nature of the universe, thus people often go back to life as usual and never question anything.

Episode One was particularly related to the average person being dragged out of their stupor. In Neo’s case, his observation of his recalcitrant computer was the first sign that he wasn’t in control of his life; an issue he brings up later as to why he didn’t believe in fate. His second observation was the White Rabbit on Dujour’s shoulder, which he would have most likely not given a second thought to were it not for the message on his monitor.

Now we get to the second most significant issue in the movie. Once confronted with a choice to do something different, most people fall back into their experiential safety net and go on as usual. Neo, however, was seeing the connection between the two events and allowed his innate curiosity to take him past his comfortable conscious safety zone. Perhaps Trinity might have endeavored to contact him again, had he messed up, maybe not. The point is that, at this juncture, Neo was ‘listening’ to his intuition, something that our society almost intentionally tries to discourage in the average citizen.

Additionally, while I think I understand what you are trying to say about Neo’s changing back and forth between the Matrix and real world, I would tend to support another view; that Neo was, out of necessity, having to use these phase jumps as a means to accelerate his own evolution, although not necessarily consciously.

Incidentally, my choice of Neo as an avatar was probably best reflected in the first episode, where he had stood up and literally just said .... NO! He was no longer going to abide by the rules of a dysfunctional way of being. Those bullets represented, not surprisingly, oppression, corruption, enslavement, dishonor, take your pick.

Probably THE most poignant part of the movie was the Red Pill-Blue Pill moment. Once that became understood that we had a choice, it then became apparent that we were all being continually bombarded with an infinitesimal number of Red Pill-Blue Pill moments throughout our lives. It’s just that we can only assess so many in the course of a day, even while attempting to stay ‘conscious’.

Anyway, the philosophical arguments around this are too numerous to get into here. It probably isn’t the best venue. For the life of me, I’m now trying to remember how the heck we even got onto this tangent. I must be having a late night senior moment.

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Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 25, 2010 at 12:25 pm Link to this comment

Re: BR549, November 18 at 2:45 am

You State: “I’m not trying to be offensive here, but you’ve made virtually no attempt to clarify yourself except to use a slightly different flavor of the same verbiage.”

Response: I have considered your statement for quite sometime. And in general for the most part, you’ve kept yourself cordial in your commentary in the broadest sense of the term, to my postings. So for cordial effort, I chose to proffer the following for these stated reasons.

So here goes; the Avatar ‘Neo’ you have chosen to use, is a very interesting choice and possibly one that reflects your intellectual disposition.

In the movie trilogy know as ‘The Matrix,’ one of the characters was known as ‘Neo.’ ‘Neo’ was the individual throughout the trilogy aforementioned, constantly reasoning with himself, and others, while surrounded by constant chaos. ‘Neo’ was forever seeking solutions for establishing reasonable outcomes to avoid such chaos. All in all, what ‘Neo’ finally determined was, that to successfully deal with chaos, One had to strive for or make Peace, if survivability was ever going to be a foregone conclusion for those he loved or cherished. Even while everyone else from both sides were continuing the same cyclic behavior of fostering chaos, ‘Neo” refused!

What I believe ‘Neo’ is saying, is that for One to come in and out of the Matrix and/or not be subject thereto (without agreements), is to create agreements by which you and others can coexist in Good Will seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life. If you honestly look closely at our writings, you will begin to see the logical conclusion of these statements and the similarity of these statements to what ‘Neo’ was saying all along!

Now mind you, don’t put to much inference in the similarity, as to why I use this movie rather than ‘The Thirteenth Floor,’ created around the same beginning time period (1999), to describe what is such a unique example apparently going on with individuals throughout the World or Universal Matrix. Why? Because people in general are naturally complacent and more interested in just going along to get along, even in the face of oblivion! Rather than to accept their own responsibilities to challenge what they have been taught, by their own reasoning, or that of others, whether spiritually, socially, or politically! 

You claim that I’ve made no attempt to clarified myself. To this statement, I must respond only by saying that what has been posted herein, and such links elsewhere, should be quite enough for any reasonable individuals to ascertain themselves of the premises we present, either respective to myself, and/or whom they may be presented to, or otherwise.

But for the sake of added clarity, if this is what you wish, appertaining to your over all so-called claim, you may review this link (http://seagov.net/) for a recently defined ‘Opening Statement’ concerning Self-determination. Hopefully, this will be enough explanation for you to discern whatever it is, you find necessary thereto.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

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BR549's avatar

By BR549, November 17, 2010 at 10:25 pm Link to this comment

Garth,

Thanks, I needed that. That was perfect, ...... and so perfectly timed.  :o)

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By garth, November 17, 2010 at 9:57 pm Link to this comment

Sorbet, anyone?

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BR549's avatar

By BR549, November 17, 2010 at 9:45 pm Link to this comment

Orby,
Are you doing peyote or something when you write? You just posted that link for the 16th time, as if we couldn’t punch the link the previous 15.

As I said, somewhere in there, it sounds like you have something intelligent to say, but we paltry peons down here on planet Earth are still trying to translate the language on your planet.

I’m not trying to be offensive here, but you’ve made virtually no attempt to clarify yourself except to use a slightly different flavor of the same verbiage. So, go ahead and post that link for a 17th time and prove my point.

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Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, November 17, 2010 at 8:51 pm Link to this comment

Re: garth, November 18 at 12:30 am.

You state: ““Death Before Dishonor””

Response: The premise you put forth “Death Before Dishonor” assumes you have some agreement to honor!

Who, what, why, and how was this agreement developed? And does this agreement allow you to have input into how you or they act whenever such actions are arbitrary?

I know your condition without a doubt, from your responses. Or, should I say the lack thereof, from your banter appertaining to the evidenced we’ve proffered.

I know you’ve never created, nor otherwise, come to the table within any social compact, to bargain on equal Standing, giving Notice to others, as to how you plan on exercising those precious principles to which the Law’s of Nature and Nature’s Creator haven entitled us.

Otherwise, your insolence directed toward the Science of Right Reason and solution oriented paradigms would have shed a different light on the subject matter of your honor! Instead, we get statements about “Death Before Dishonor”, which I’m absolutely sure you associate with those wearing dog tags, in the service of those who’ve programmed you into perfection subjugation as their dogs of war!

Whether we continue to post herein, for whatever reason, it is to remind those herein, that there are those who have already confronted the global oligarchy. For very obvious reasons. Oblivion or otherwise!

Not like most the intelligentsia herein, amounting to nothing more than impostors ranting and raving about conditions for every conceivable fraud, which they could not do anything about, even if they wanted too!

Re: BR549, November 17 at 11:18 pm

And as far as unsubbing any thread respective to what you refer to as ‘drivelous psychobabble,’ what can we say? You principally agreed with our premises after reviewing the evidence we’ve proffered. Should I post your response therto, as a reminer thereof?

So, why do you continue to banter about conditions you know you have little effect over? Other than choosing to come to the table to ‘Creating Standing within the geopolitical framework of International Conventions.’

I won’t presume to entertain why individuals deem it necessary to communicate with such flowering expose of their brilliance. But, not being one who accepts to condemn another for their efforts, we rather exhort them in our patience, to consider seeking further perfection for perfecting their condition.

Than to shine were a miner of wisdom would have difficulty seeing otherwise!

In support of my continuing challenge throughout voluminous postings herein, one only has to avail themselves of facts we present, if they have any honorable bone in them, to accept the challenge, by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

Having said all this, I will be constantly vigilant, awaiting evidenced, line for line, contrary to the documentary evidence we have proffered!

We honorably await any evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised within the Universal Declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

And once again, as our humble attempt for those capable of presenting facts line for line, in the light of reasonable propositions or otherwise, just as a reminder for all those who honorably exchange ideas within the ‘Truthdig Forum’ while refraining from hateful or insolent behavior…always remember, sometimes while exchanging ideas, the time and respect we give, from a deep seated desire to foster harmonious behavior to garner enlightenment, can be met on the road of hopeful enlightenment, by those seeking to discourage, rather than exhorting to greater possibilities.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!!!

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By garth, November 17, 2010 at 7:30 pm Link to this comment

Br549,

I heard you the first time.  You are absolutely right.  I am a slow learner.

It was fun for a awhile,though—imagining and guessing what and who the hell was behind it, and what was actualy going on, and all the rest of that sort of thing. 

In the end though, I agree with you.  The battle is that-a-way, not with this ‘drivel’ as I think you called it.

I am waiting for the battle lines to be drawn.  The Democrats and Republican versus the rest of us. 

The tea partiers cum tea baggers and the lazy-stay-at-home bums like me will come out and say, “What is better, a life of poverty like the one I knew as a child, or death before dishonor.” 

“Death Before Dishonor”  was a tattoo on Mike Coppola’s arm, a fellow machinist in 1961 in the Lynn Screw Machine.  He was ridiculed for having that tattoo by Mack Kleiman, the owner of the shop and graduate of MIT and resident of Marblehead, MA.

(I observed:  When you gots the bucks and you gots the edumacation you can ridicule at will.  The plunks will never realize it.  Or so they think.)

For the factory owners in 1960, blind loyalty was not yet at its pinnacle.  The fate of the young men of America, whether it was to be turned into raw hamburg or to remain as humans, was still up in the air. 

I don’t know what happened to Coppola.  Maybe he died in Vietnam.

Mack sold his business, retired and is living comfortably into his 90s.  I think he gave up his pipe.


Thanks for the wake up slap.

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By BR549, November 17, 2010 at 6:18 pm Link to this comment

Garth,
I unsubbed from this thread but apparently the electron gremlins mischievously reconnected me. I guess I wasn’t quite finished.

Orby is going to continue his drivelous psychobabble no matter how much you come back with real life explanations or examples, so don’t waste your time. As I said, he sounds well versed, but trying to preach Islam to a group of Jews would have about the same effect, (no offense to our patriotic Muslim-American brothers). To list the link for “www.scribd.com/rahyah” a full 15 times, I think, says it all. Had he connected with his audience BEFORE attempting to upload his version of reality, he might have saved himself having to repost those additional 14 times.

All that said, this really makes it difficult to get people on the same page with others to present a more consistent front. Orby isn’t the enemy any more than you or I; the enemies are in Washington and on Wall Street. It is THOSE people who are violating the oaths they swore to under God. They gave their word as they accepted these higher positions of power, and now they are openly violating that contract with God, .......... and I’m not even a “religious” person.

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By garth, November 17, 2010 at 5:40 pm Link to this comment

You say,

“Rationality when confronted with oblivion is what divides man from beast.”

That’s not true.  Not in the least.  You have no understanding of nature.

I think that Patrick Henry said it best when he said, “pass me the toilet paper.  I think I’ve had it.”

Orbity Unitem: Would you be nuts enough to go against the realm? 


I think you have this on automatic response.  Your answers to be taken up by secondary whiffs.  Equally mis-educated smurfs.

Well, if that is the way you make your living, c’est la vie.

I talked to a dental technician who cleaned my teeth, and she is in her 30s.  She remarried and she is on the verge of becoming a business-person.
Orby,
I had to scroll up to find out why I was talking to you.

As a computer RWG or as a some-kind-of-thought- provoking man, you are nothing.  zero.

That’s worse than bull shit.  Or if you have cats, it’s worse that cat shit.

Believe me I know.

Try another line of work.

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By Orbis Unum, November 17, 2010 at 4:56 pm Link to this comment

Re: garth, November 17 at 9:20 pm.

You state: “We can clearly see that any growing belligerence is nothing more than an aberration, coming not from intention, but from fear.

[No, belligerence is coming from you.  Ever hear of live and let live?]”

Response: Rationality when confronted with oblivion is what divides man from beast. For eons individuals have mustered their imaginations to over-come idiocracy and those willing to go along to get along at what ever price. Even, if it means sacrificing you and yours!

Do you honestly think…(?) being belligerent, that belligerence is not coming for you, in return?! Or that belligerence in any form, is associated with Live and Let Live?! 

You state: “[I’ve had enough.  You have no vision.  You have only your penis your job and you our friggin’ no count eduaction.)”

Response: I humbly apologize for my inabilities to express myself, visions, and/or solutions for your perfect condition, to offer only insolence where none was proffered. It grieves me not only to your end, but the missed opportunities for greater good you may have chosen to manifest so much more.

When Patrick Henry said it best, “give me liberty or give me death!,” he was not speaking from a desire to live in unregulated societies of governance! He was only asking for reasonableness in its structuring predicated upon its founding documents. We, in our effort have done no less, for those willing to be reasonable. 

For those willing to be reasonable, there are solutions for those who wish to step aside so to speak, concerning the ongoing debauchery evincing total subjugation of All Walks of Life via Creating Standing within the geopolitical framework of International Conventions.

This is the last bastion of the presumed Rule of Law left to reasonable people exercising the Science of Right Reason.

In support of the aforementioned, one only has to avail themselves of these facts by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

We honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise. Not by generalities but Line for Line.

And, once again as our humble attempt for those capable of presenting facts line for line, in the light of reasonable prepositions or otherwise, just as a reminder for all those who honorably exchange ideas within the ‘Truthdig Forum’ while refraining from hateful or insolent behavior…always remember, sometimes while exchanging ideas, the time and respect we give, from a deep seated desire to foster harmonious behavior to garner enlightenment, can be met on the road of hopeful enlightenment, by those seeking to discourage, rather than exhorting to greater possibilities.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking

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By garth, November 17, 2010 at 4:20 pm Link to this comment

Orbis Unum, when did you decide to make sense of what you post?

The excerpt cited below in quotaions is readable, at least.  Now that you’ve gotten to that point, you have to make sense.


Let’s take a look.

“Response: I have always tried to avoid outbursts of opinionated ‘Anger, Lying, Greed, compassion, something,’ emotionally unrelated. It’s neither productive or proactive.

As far as what you deem ‘herky-jerky phrases and sudden unexpected insertion of words that stop you in your tracks,’ might be just what the good doctor order.

And as far as Ayn Rand’s presumed ‘objectivism,’ I can only say that both of her works, e.g., ‘Fountainhead’ and ‘Atlas Shrugged’ gave me considerable thought in my formative years. And like so many before us, we keep moving forward, and imagining greater possibilities.  And, we believe even when all hope is lost, that ideas are the only true capital worth investing our hope for a better world to day, for the sake of the one we leave for tomorrow. And yield seed it shall!”


————————————-

Ideas yes.  Your so-called ideas: Well let’s examine them.  You have put them forward in a readable form.

“And, we believe even when all hope is lost,”  where is your chutzpah, or is it chutzpoh? Let’s ask Rico?

Are you losing hope in what might be a hopeless ‘sitcheation?’

I am not saying “Give it up.’  What I am asking is for you to apply the Science of Right Reason to this dilemma and come up with the right solution. 

I am sure all peace loving human beings will acquiesce. 

We’ll gather around fires in rusted 55 gallon oil barrels in neglected neighborhoods and say, “You know what, that Orbis Unum fellow was right.”

Orby says.

We want a smooth (we used to pronounce it shmood) transition from the old materialistic world view to the new spiritual one, and we want a transformation in which the best of the older traditions would be recognized and integrated into the new world that is emerging.


Let’squestion that.  What’s emerging?  Senor.


We can clearly see that any growing belligerence is nothing more than an aberration, coming not from intention, but from fear.

[No, belligerence is coming from you.  Ever hear of live and let live?]

Our original vision.

[I’ve had enough.  You have no vision.  You have only your penis your job and you our friggin’ no count eduaction.) 

Did you ever hear of the saying, “Pounding sand?”  Well that’s the fools errand they sent you on.

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By Orbis Unum, November 17, 2010 at 3:19 pm Link to this comment

Re: garth, November 17 at 4:31 pm.

You state: “In an afterthought: When a human writes something, a whiff of humanity leaks into the ether.  Sort of like a vapor pressure.  Anger, Lying, Greed, compassion, something.

With Orville Orbis, there’s nothing.  Not even a trace of humanity.  Just herky-jerky phrases and sudden unexpected insertion of words that stop you in your tracks.

Maybe you have something there.  Like Ayn Rand’s Objectivism, keep playing with it.  It might yield seed.”

Response: I have always tried to avoid outbursts of opinionated ‘Anger, Lying, Greed, compassion, something,’ emotionally unrelated. It’s neither productive or proactive.

As far as what you deem ‘herky-jerky phrases and sudden unexpected insertion of words that stop you in your tracks,’ might be just what the good doctor order.

And as far as Ayn Rand’s presumed ‘objectivism,’ I can only say that both of her works, e.g., ‘Fountainhead’ and ‘Atlas Shrugged’ gave me considerable thought in my formative years. And like so many before us, we keep moving forward, and imagining greater possibilities.  And, we believe even when all hope is lost, that ideas are the only true capital worth investing our hope for a better world to day, for the sake of the one we leave for tomorrow. And yield seed it shall!

We want a smooth transition from the old materialistic world view to the new spiritual one, and we want a transformation in which the best of the older traditions would be recognized and integrated into the new world that is emerging.
 
We can clearly see that any growing belligerence is nothing more than an aberration, coming not from intention, but from fear.  Our original vision is that ethics of human society shall be maintained at the same time that each individual could be fully liberated and the environment protected; and that economic creativity would be once conserved and transformed by introducing an overriding holistic purpose which could descend fully into the world and initiate a utopia in a way that symbolically fulfilled the stewardship envisioned by Thomas More and our vision for “the restitution of all things!”
 
Yet, for this transition flow to be optimally established across the economy, the stated purpose of business must shift into Rights awareness. Our guiding intuitions become most clear when we approach business from an evolving perspective. Our questions must change.  Instead of asking what product or service we can develop to make the most money, we’re beginning to ask, ‘What can we produce that liberates and informs and makes the world a better place, yet preserves a delicate environmental balance?’
 
A new standard of ethics is being added to the equation of free enterprise. We have come to awake wherever we are and ask ‘What are we creating and does it consciously serve the overall purpose for which technology was invented in the first place: to make everyday subsistence easier, so that the prevailing orientation of life can shift from mere survival and/or comfort to the interchange of pure holistic information?’ Such enlightened information will clearly manifest solution oriented paradigms which equally recognize the universal self-evident principles to which All Walks of Life are entitled by Nature’s Law and Nature’s Creator.
 
Each of us has to see that we have a part in the evolution toward lower and lower subsistence costs, until finally this basic means of survival is virtually free – thereby helping man-kind return to his/her natural state-of-being, exercising their full political power within the universal order, upon Earth, in harmony with the society of nature and not a subject of any one state but a sovereign member E’State of Earth.”

All in all, we have trusted in your hope for a better day while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life! Imagine! And keep moving forward!

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By garth, November 17, 2010 at 11:57 am Link to this comment

JDMystic and BR549,

JD, I don’t want you to think that REDHORSE is only one who appreciated your posts.  I do, too, immensely.  They are readable and worth reading.  I enjoyed your carrying on the fight with GRYM, especially about the madness of these wars.  And I enjoyed your put down of me a few threads ago.  I was the loudmouth.

I don’t see what your problem is, though, with Tarpley.  As a reporter in Italy after graduating from Princeton, he lightly interested me in his reporting about Aldo Moro.  To me Aldo Moro is nothing more than a name in history, that’s how much I know.


But Tarpley was exposing something far greater—the nature of Terrorism, which other journalist have also reported.  It is not at all what we are being told.

BR549, is very illuminating.  Things I have noticed and have sensed, he puts a name to.  I sense he’s been there, done that.

For instance, the idea of the Dominant Male, the Policeman, with his stance and his militaristic no-nonsense, and a complete rejection of any civilian plasantries that say I am a peaceful citizen, an offer of an open hand so to speak.

We’ve got quite a row to hoe.

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By garth, November 17, 2010 at 11:31 am Link to this comment

I shall go.  In demoralized frustration.

I shall piss and moan to the tune of the C&W hit, “Born Toulouse, I’ve lived my life in paint.”

When the national mood takes a non-confrontational upswing, I’ll sing the popualar uptempo ditty, “I’m a Polack, a pretty little puppy.”

Everyone is after Iran.  Well Iranians are not Arabs and they don’t speak Arabic.  They’re Peruvians and they speak Fescue.

I posed myself with question of Dr. Faustus, and I concluded that you don’t have to know everything of you can make up what you want.

Walpurgisnacht is a comin’.

Here’s tad of nooz, an omen of 2014.  About 7700 residents of MA are being fined $2000 for being unable to afford Health Insurance.


In an afterthought: When a human writes something, a whiff of humanity leaks into the ether.  Sort of like a vapor pressure.  Anger, Lying, Greed, compassion, something.

With Orville Orbis, there’s nothing.  Not even a trace of humanity.  Just herky-jerky phrases and sudden unexpected insertion of words that stop you in your tracks.

Maybe you have something there.  Like Ayn Rand’s Objectivism, keep playing with it.  It might yield seed.

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By JDmysticDJ, November 16, 2010 at 8:33 pm Link to this comment

Redhorse

Thanks for enjoying; I can honestly say that I have enjoyed your posts too.

Admittedly, some of us are overly sensitive, especially while in the midst of debate. For the sake of our sensitivity; how about changing to dumbassas Washingtonus, or some such.

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By BR549, November 16, 2010 at 7:23 pm Link to this comment

Garth,
I’ll see you on another news topic. This one has turned into a dog chasing its own
tail.

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By Orbis Unum, November 16, 2010 at 4:03 pm Link to this comment

Re: garth, November 16 at 8:11 pm.

You state: “Well, in one of your paragraphs in your last response, you say,

“In assessing both written and oral evidence, reasonable people hitherto generally applied “beyond a reasonable doubt” as the standard of proof required. Such proof may follow from the coexistence of sufficiently strong, clear and concordant inferences or of similar unrebutted presumptions of fact; in addition, the conduct of the parties in relationship to the arbiter’s efforts and willingness to view all facts and/or obtain evidence, may constitute an element to be taken into account. Depending on whether the Arbiter acts from the Standing of Honor or has some Conflict of interest unknown to either party applicable to the controversies in question or otherwise.”

And further more you state:

The above paragraph sounds a lot like a specifically tuned random word generator (RWG).”

Response: For your edification, if you chose to be exhorted to edification, appertaining to the synopsis of the quoted verbiage you’ve extracted from our posting, concerns establishing the ‘standard’ for adjudicating relevant facts used by the European Court of Human Rights. The chief case at bar was the Case of LLascu and Others v. Moldova and Russia (Application no. 48787/99) at Strasbourg, 8 July 2004.

Maybe should take it up with the aforementioned Court, as to their presumed random word usages to explain what the meaning behind their Science of Right Reason was for doing so, in respect to establishing relevant facts or otherwise! 

Creating Standing within the geopolitical framework of International Conventions, one must be a aware of ongoing issues respective to proffering solutions and the usages by others respective thereto, to address those pesky and nagging problems you seem to want addressed.

In support of the challenge aforementioned, one only has to avail themselves of these facts we present, if they have any honorable bone in them, to accept the challenge, by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

Again, we honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise. Not by generalities but Line for Line.

Having said all this, I will be constantly vigilant, awaiting evidenced, line for line, contrary to the documentary evidence we have proffered!

And once again, as our humble attempt for those capable of presenting facts line for line, in the light of reasonable propositions or otherwise, just as a reminder for all those who honorably exchange ideas within the ‘Truthdig Forum’ while refraining from hateful or insolent behavior…always remember, sometimes while exchanging ideas, the time and respect we give, from a deep seated desire to foster harmonious behavior to garner enlightenment, can be met on the road of hopeful enlightenment, by those seeking to discourage, rather than exhorting to greater possibilities.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!!!

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By garth, November 16, 2010 at 3:11 pm Link to this comment

Your answer or was it a non-answer didn’t surprise me.  It’s like the ploy they teach in Journalism.  leave the mike in front of the person being interviewed.  For some reason, they feel compelled to say something more.  Something they had not thought through, and that is where the interviewee usually spills the beansm tips his hand, etc.

Well, in one of your paragraphs in your last response, you say,

“In assessing both written and oral evidence, reasonable people hitherto generally applied “beyond a reasonable doubt” as the standard of proof required. Such proof may follow from the coexistence of sufficiently strong, clear and concordant inferences or of similar unrebutted presumptions of fact; in addition, the conduct of the parties in relationship to the arbiter’s efforts and willingness to view all facts and/or obtain evidence, may constitute an element to be taken into account. Depending on whether the Arbiter acts from the Standing of Honor or has some Conflict of interest unknown to either party applicable to the controversies in question or otherwise.”
—————————————————-
The above paragraph sounds a lot like a specifically tuned random word generator (RWG). 

I wondered why you needed a spell checker.  Now, I know.  You have to edit the junk that comes out of your random word generator to make it close to readable.

I personally don’t see the fun in that.  After a few blasts of the RWG, I’d say, What’s next?

Does it shine shoes?

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By Orbis Unum, November 16, 2010 at 2:34 pm Link to this comment

Re: garth, November 16 at 7:16 pm.

You state: “Can you give an example of how you’d apply the Science of Right Reason to resolve one of our nagging problems?

Take any one, please.”

Response: The appropriate response rests on each to his/her abilities to creating Standing within the geopolitical framework of International Conventions, respective to resolving so-called nagging problems.

As we have said before, we could post certain other documents further evincing a design to show resolution oriented paradigms as you request. But the web provider for posting such documents limits us to less than 100mbs (http://www.scribd.com/rahyah) and our resources are limited at present. Due to the fact of individuals continually supporting their own demise. When to do otherwise, is clearly a free will choice.

But first, certain principles must be proffered to expose people to their conditioning of subjugation against the backdrop of systematic misrepresentations of purported enfranchised governance.

In assessing the evidence for the purpose of establishing the facts, reasonable people consider the following elements are relevant.

In assessing both written and oral evidence, reasonable people hitherto generally applied “beyond a reasonable doubt” as the standard of proof required. Such proof may follow from the coexistence of sufficiently strong, clear and concordant inferences or of similar unrebutted presumptions of fact; in addition, the conduct of the parties in relationship to the arbiter’s efforts and willingness to view all facts and/or obtain evidence, may constitute an element to be taken into account. Depending on whether the Arbiter acts from the Standing of Honor or has some Conflict of interest unknown to either party applicable to the controversies in question or otherwise.

And, reasonable people may also, consider as relevant facts, even if the circumstances took place in time long ago, in an obscure and particularly complex context, which makes some degree of imprecision about other details inevitable, evidence proffered as to cast doubt on the credibility of the parties, witnesses, or evidenced produced. Even when there are contradictory and opposing accounts of the facts.

As evidenced of those who have sacrificed for years to peel away the programming of misrepresentation by social role models most have paid dearly one way or the other to expose, we offer the truth of the matter via the “4” declarations espoused by the S.E.A., published via the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah, available for those honestly looking for researching the truth, in the interest of Good Will with All Walks of Life seeking Universal Peace and solution oriented paradigms to the problems of systemic fraud.

Having said all this, what you or others may describe or proffer in support or contradistinction via your own ability to discern the facts presented, appertaining to the declarations aforementioned, and your reasonable ability to establish the facts according to the above stated ‘standard,’ is the only recourse open to process information to any conclusion justly. If you or others chose to ignore the standard aforementioned, your discourse will remain ‘reasonably’ unproven.

We honorably await your evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised within the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.
My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!!!

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By garth, November 16, 2010 at 2:16 pm Link to this comment

Orbis,


I checked some of the other threads and you are everywhere.

Happy typing and happy thoughts.

Can you give an example of how you’d apply the Science of Right Reason to resolve one of our nagging problems?

Take any one, please.

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By Orbis Unum, November 16, 2010 at 2:02 pm Link to this comment

Re: garth, November 16 at 6:39 pm.

You state: “If you were alone on an island, maybe, but with 7 billion others sharing the planet, it would seem highly unlikely that enough adherents to the Science of Right Reason would get together to amonout to much of anything.”

Response: It is not for us to establish the fact concerning the reasonableness of 7 billion people or otherwise. But the least that we may do, is proffer both facts and solutions to give everyone the ability to acquire the Science of Right Reason, without fostering misrepresentations evincing their subjugation into abject oblivion. Where, the Science of Right Reason for exercising the balance of social order via those precious principles to which the Law’s of Nature and Nature’s Creator have entitled us, will have been stamped out utterly by their perfect condition not to test all things in the preservation of such unalienable birthrights!

In answer to your other questions, I believe with all my heart and soul, if the people of planet Earth were given this opportunity, then the Science of Right Reason would prevail. I guess it’s the much pander or presumed Jeffersonian ideology in me. And the future of both people and the use of the resources here or otherwise, would be under the just stewardship of capable and worthy hands for future generations to come!

And I couldn’t agree more concerning the fact that TD ought to employ a spell checker.

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By garth, November 16, 2010 at 1:39 pm Link to this comment

Mr Unum,

You write:
“I find it hard to believe beyond a reasonable doubt, while exercising the Science of Right Reason, how anyone could shew forth any claim more than a pointed fact, for consideration appertaining to your perfect condition.”

Your use of the phrase, “Science of Right Reason” reminds me of the followers of Ayn Rand’s, Objectivity.  It is mostly read by young people, probably in college.  It sounds good and to the inexperienced it sounds like words to live by.  And that is where it falls apart. 

If you were alone on an island, maybe, but with 7 billion others sharing the planet, it would seem highly unlikely that enough adherents to the Science of Right Reason would get together to amonout to much of anything.

Or is there someone at the top?  An Ultimate Referee who determines what is Science of Right Reason and what is not.

So much is psychological.  For example, I called you Superannuated because I was once called that when I was a senior in college.  I just want to see how it felt to call someone that.  Your response did not bear fruit.  I have learned to talk with my foot in my mouth.


BR549,

Love the typos.  Shows you’re human.  I try to reread what I’ve written to check for typos and the like.  I miss a lot.

TD ought to employ a spell checker.  J\K

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By Orbis Unum, November 16, 2010 at 12:38 pm Link to this comment

Re: BR549, November 16 at 3:15 pm.

You state: “I was not attempting to insult, in any way, the material you had suggested we read; indeed I had looked at the site and the Declarations you had suggested and found them to be similar to other materials I had read on the subject, AND I AGREE WITH IT.

While I confess to having made a couple typos on my previous post, I think my intent was certainly clear enough to suggest that it was the “constabulary” on the show that was making assumptions on the speakers kookiness and thus hauling him away in cuffs.  If someone else came to the same conclusion as yourself, then I apologize.”

Response: While out of acceptance in general to your apology, I will humbly refrain from directing any comment respective to ‘BR549’ comments found in the 1st paragraph of the response hereinabove referenced. I do so, because of ‘BR549’ posit related to supporting our premises for anyone to avail themselves of these facts by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

We honorably await any evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised within the Universal Declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!!!

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By REDHORSE, November 16, 2010 at 11:47 am Link to this comment

JDMYSTICJD: My term BABOONUS WASHINGTONUS (as I explained at length in my post below) has nothing to do with President Obama specifically. That “race” is the first thing that springs to TRUTHDIG minds when I use it is interesting.

    If the idea that personal political action/organization for change (starting w/Campaign Finance Reform) on the citizen level is “RADICAL” I’m amazed.

    By the way, I enjoy your posts.

    Thanks!

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By BR549, November 16, 2010 at 10:15 am Link to this comment

Orbis Unum, November 16 at 4:30 am
“First of all, your idea of circular formats or accepting to pander television
episodes related to non-reality based programming such as Law & Order, as
indicative of, or rational food for thought respective thereto, reflecting issues
related sovereignty, rights, or organizations you know nothing of, in respect to
the link we proffered, for our purposea, in an attempt to expose the truth, for
those interested, is tantamount to senility so absurd, as to questions when or
rather, whether you really do like the cost of that juicy steak, even if it isn’t
real, Mr. Reagan!”

====================

Orby,
First, please do us all a favor and wait for the plane to land before turning the cars keys. How you managed to come up with that contorted response out of my commentary is beyond me. I wish you would try to at least read what I said before having a “premature evaluation”. I know the temptation is huge and you sit, salivating on the edge of your chair, waiting for that opportunity, but try to
resist that urge.

I was not attempting to insult, in any way, the material you had suggested we read; indeed I had looked at the site and the Declarations you had suggested and found them to be similar to other materials I had read on the subject, AND I AGREE WITH IT.

While I confess to having made a couple typos on my previous post, I think my intent was certainly clear enough to suggest that it was the “constabulary” on the show that was making assumptions on the speakers kookiness and thus hauling him away in cuffs.  If someone else came to the same conclusion as yourself, then I apologize.

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By Orbis Unum, November 15, 2010 at 11:30 pm Link to this comment

Re: BR549, November 16 at 1:20 am.

You state: “BTW, Orby, relative to your link, the material has gone around in different circles and in different formats. All great stuff. Law and Order just had an episode (with Mariska and what’s-his-name) where one on the subplots was about sovereign rights organizations. They typically handled it like it was another tin-foil hat group and carted the guy off to jail, where he no doubt had to then start playing “the GAME” with the judge, and it is a game.”

Response: First of all, your idea of circular formats or accepting to pander television episodes related to non-reality based programming such as Law & Order, as indicative of, or rational food for thought respective thereto, reflecting issues related sovereignty, rights, or organizations you know nothing of, in respect to the link we proffered, for our purposea, in an attempt to expose the truth, for those interested, is tantamount to senility so absurd, as to questions when or rather, whether you really do like the cost of that juicy steak, even if it isn’t real, Mr. Reagan! 

You state: “Anyway, can we just try to practice pooling our resources instead, because if we can’t even be civil with like-minded people here, how will we ever hope to convince the unconscious that it’s worth their time to get out of the house and work on the problem?”

Response: I believe as I’ve stated before, if space were available for uploading, you could be made aware of so much more. The answer lies in pooling resources as you’ve stated. But it seems even the answers given herein, are to arduous for the columnists or posters herein, given that people find difficulty due to the length of reading material presented. I’m not sure how they would ever wade through 250MBs of compressed data, reflecting how to establish creating Standing within the geopolitical framework of International Conventions.

In support of our continuing effort to determine those willing to test all things, and, may choose to avail themselves of the facts we present, if they have any reasonable and honorable desire to know the truth, to accept the challenge to prove our premises wrong, by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah

We honorably await any evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised within the Universal Declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

Having said all this, I will be constantly vigilant, awaiting evidenced, line for line, contrary to the documentary evidence we have proffered!

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!!!

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By Orbis Unum, November 15, 2010 at 10:56 pm Link to this comment

Re: garth, November 16 at 2:58 am.

You state: “So in a sense you are the superannuated man.”

Response: Now, now, now! Try not to go where angels fear to tread! Lest you accept the liability for the retreading! Superannuated Man, ha, ha!

You state: “Try to be pithy.”

Response: I find it hard to believe beyond a reasonable doubt, while exercising the Science of Right Reason, how anyone could shew forth any claim more than a pointed fact, for consideration appertaining to your perfect condition.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!!!

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By garth, November 15, 2010 at 9:58 pm Link to this comment

If you go by the clock listed on Truthdig, you shall surely be off time.  If I were you I wouldn’t plan an appointement on it.

On the second hand, your responses for the most part require far too much reading and far too much thought, (deciphering),  which I am reluctant to spend on your ‘comments’.

But other than that, I waded through your poem or citation therof, and I find it worthy of one of Christopher Hitchens’s selections, if he were to select poems for Truthdig.

Your defense of the Francis is like Obama’s defense of any of his policies.  A mere restatement.

Don’t forget, Francis rejected his idea—the end of history.

Maybe, though, he spoke too soon.  He wrote that in the 80s and here we are in 21st century.

Wars, selected government, ideas are on the out; I think Francis spoke before his time.

You do not need to hype the one world idea.  We are already there or at its doorstep.

So in a sense you are the superannuated man.

To Orbis Unum, bless you and you and you and you and ....


Try to be pithy.

PS.  I am from the Americans for Tax Freedom or something like that and my name is Shultz. Ring a bell?

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By Orbis Unum, November 15, 2010 at 8:46 pm Link to this comment

Re: garth, November 16 at 12:44 am.

You state: “Thank you for your almost immediate response to my last post.”

Response: I for one do not consider a response ‘immediate’ if such response took more then two (2) hours (By Orbis Unum, November 15 at 11:57 pm Link to this comment Re: garth, November 15 at 9:47 pm.) to give. But hey, what the heck, one man’s clock is another man’s retirement.

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By garth, November 15, 2010 at 8:35 pm Link to this comment

I quit!

In adult education parlance, I am now a reader.

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By garth, November 15, 2010 at 8:29 pm Link to this comment

“We are of a singular mind, that any individual open to further perfection to their own posit (perceived and/or comprehended) prognosis, ideologically or otherwise, when it can be proven contrary to the Science of Right Reason, should not be termed a ‘dimwit! “

[Aside] Ah, yes! We have them on the run.

It is certainly nice to be so well read, at least in some circles, n’est pas?


Francis and you!

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By BR549, November 15, 2010 at 8:20 pm Link to this comment

Now kiddies,
Let’s not quibble while we’re in the sandbox.

On a more rational note, I would suggest you’re both contributing loads to this and other stories here on TD; let’s not lose sight of the ball. Orby apparently recites legal passages before going to bed; personally, I prefer medical articles, but to each his own. Garth apparently love to so candidly lay it all out on the line for all to see.

We all have our strengths. Let’s not forget who the real enemies are so that we don’t waste our energy squabbling amongst ourselves. That’s exactly part of their plan. They’re trying to pull all this off while we continue to fail to recognize a target, or worse, start taking potshots at each either when we can’t find the target.

BTW, Orby, relative to your link, the material has gone around in different circles and in different formats. All great stuff. Law and Order just had an episode (with Mariska and what’s-his-name) where one on the subplots was about sovereign rights organizations. They typically handled it like it was another tin-foil hat group and carted the guy off to jail, where he no doubt had to then start playing “the GAME” with the judge, and it is a game. Thank God the populace hasn’t had all that stuff explained to them because if they ever started reading the shenanigans that were in place that tore they rights away, they’d be p-i-s-s-e-d as hell and I’ll be THAT alone would get them to turn off American Idol ........ well, some of them anyway. The whole issue is just the lower legs of the whole global banking swindle and it’s been slipped under our doors by the politicians for the last 100 years, or probably since the early 1800’s; it depends how far back one wants to try to identify the problem.

Anyway, can we just try to practice pooling our resources instead, because if we can’t even be civil with like-minded people here, how will we ever hope to convince the unconscious that it’s worth their time to get out of the house and work on the problem?

My two cents

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By garth, November 15, 2010 at 7:44 pm Link to this comment

Senor Orbis,

Thank you for your almost immediate resonse to my last post.  It shows the depth and brevity of your veracity on Truthdig. (Newt Gingrich recently said that six intelligent people could outdo a gemius.)
Well Truthidig is sheer GENIUS, made up of many different peoples.

Newt and Orby, where are your brains?  The stuff that makes most people think, not blurt.

Francis is an intellectual squirt.


And you will show yourself to be over time.

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By Orbis Unum, November 15, 2010 at 6:57 pm Link to this comment

Re: garth, November 15 at 9:47 pm.

You state: “Some dimwit named Fukurama, or something like that, from Johns Hopkins wrote a book entitled, “The End of History”.  He later denounced the thesis of the book.”

Response: The gentleman you speak of ‘Francis Fukuyama’ published an article (not a book) you referenced, in the journal entitled, ‘The National Interest’ in the summer of 1989. Therein, he postulated “that a remarkable consensus concerning the legitimacy of liberal democracy as a system of government had emerged throughout the world over the past few years, as it conquered rival ideologies like hereditary monarchy, fascism, and most recently communism. More than that, however, he argued that liberal democracy may constitute the “end point of mankind’s ideological evolution” and the “final form of human government,” and as such constituted the “end of history.”

Fukuyama continued his adjustment of ideologies applicable to his article via his book entitled ‘The End of History and the Last Man’ (1992), publ. Penguin.

Wherein, Fukuyama by Way of an Introduction to the above referenced ‘book’ he seeks to address these ideological view-points or questions which have arisen respective to his article aforementioned. As he states, e.g., “[t]hey arise naturally once we ask whether there is such a thing as progress, and whether we can construct a coherent and directional Universal History of mankind. Totalitarianism’s of the Right and Left have kept us too busy to consider the latter question seriously for the better part of this century. But the fading of these totalitarianism’s, as the century comes to an end, invites us to raise this old question one more time.”

We are of a singular mind, that any individual open to further perfection to their own posit (perceived and/or comprehended) prognosis, ideologically or otherwise, when it can be proven contrary to the Science of Right Reason, should not be termed a ‘dimwit! 

We cannot say the same for those who think to continue the same course of action, while expecting a different outcome can we!?

But what we can say about Fukuyama’s introduction to his book is to state beyond a reasonable doubt, that, there are those of us, who have done exactly as he deems necessary, appertaining to raising the old questions one more time.

As evidenced of those who have sacrificed for years to peel away the programming of misrepresentation by social role models most have paid dearly one way or the other to expose, we offer the truth of the matter via the “4” declarations espoused by the S.E.A., published via the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah, available for those honestly looking for researching the truth, in the interest of Good Will with All Walks of Life seeking Universal Peace and solution oriented paradigms to the problems of systemic fraud.

We honorably await any evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised within the Universal Declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

Having said all this, I will be constantly vigilant, awaiting evidenced, line for line, contrary to the documentary evidence we have proffered!

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!!!

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By garth, November 15, 2010 at 4:47 pm Link to this comment

Some dimwit named Fukurama, or something like that, from Johns Hopkins wrote a book entitled, “The End of History”.  He later denounced the thesis of the book.

Well, I foresaw this “End of History” as a time when everything is happening simulutaneously.  All shit breaks loose. 

And that is what’s going on now.  Chaos.  Confusion.  That’s what these so called people of the Third Mind capitalize on.

I was interviewd today for a yob.  This yob used to be a career.  Now, the Corporate decision-makers are moving these yobs to Mexico.  And they want me to tell the Americans a fairy tale.  Sing them a lullaby.

To the question at hand:  I have no fucking idea how to turn this ship, this Titanic, around.

I too am flailing.  The best thing I can say to do is ..............I’ll tell you later.

Did “Workers of the World Unite” work out? 

I have a sneaky suspicion that the answer to all this brouhaha is simple.  Don’t give in.

The end they see is really negative.  I suspect that it is negative even to them, the Decision-makers.

How is one going to introduce Stephen to Pedro and tell Stephen that his job is going to Mexico along with Pedro?  “Pedro, by the way, will be doing your job in Mexico.  The cafeteria is down the hall.”


I have a phone.  I can call Capuano (D -5th District MA).  But the anger and the frustration and just the goddamn sense of Right balancing Wrong, in other words justice, would not appease the turmoil.

Do these bastards have no shame?


DO NOT CONFUSE ANGER WIIH TEA BAGGER SENTIMENT.

This is real shit.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 15, 2010 at 2:27 pm Link to this comment

JD:

I didn’t mean you—you hadn’t been posting for a while.  Nor was I praising GRYM…You’re clever enough to figure out the rest.

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By JDmysticDJ, November 15, 2010 at 1:02 pm Link to this comment

Please forgive the stupid error. The amount of the criminal fine was $1,750,000,000 (1.75 Billion with a B) not $175,000,000,000 (not 175 Billion with a B.) It was because of bad math, not because of bad character.

I forgot to comment on the charges leveled at Harry Belafonte; they are absurd. Belafonte was prescient when he said the Bush administration was leading us into hell with the help of Powell and Rice. Also, racial comments by Palestinians can not logically be used to discredit progressives.

Sadly, comments like “[Ho] bama” and “Baboonus Washingtonus” made by some progressives (Radicals, whatever) are more condemning.

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By Orbis Unum, November 15, 2010 at 12:50 pm Link to this comment

Re: gerard, November 15 at 2:29.

You state:
“Garth:  Who can we turn to?  There are a number of organizations working on all the key problems we have. They are understaffed and under financed.

  Choose a problem (i.e. global warming, or torture, or end war, or civil liberties) and Google it, looking for organizations working on that problem.
Contribute your time and money and support as you are able.

Talk to friends and neighbors about forming a local support group.

All of them have directions for action.”

Response:

Without Political Standing ‘gerard’ your counsel of using resources to support organizations which can offer no effect upon the political machinery causing the ill affects of the problems (i.e. global warming, or torture, or end war, or civil liberties) you’ve suggested to address, is merit-less.

Let me make this perfectly clear for those exercising the Science of Right Reason. In the present State of Affairs, all Ownership is in the State! Brought about by the acceptance of commercial paper ‘Notes’ (FRNs) of indebtedness (IOUs) as legal tender into the realm by agreements (1913) to which neither you nor I were party too! But none the less, its effect upon the ownership of property for those unable to discharge such liabilities back to the source, has been to strip away the rights to acquire property from one’s expenditures of labor for livelihood to acquire ‘whatever’ property. And, any ability to State a Claim otherwise, for which Relief can be granted.

The evidence herein proffered, for those who choose to research the matter supporting the above premises we offer this in support thereof.
“SENATE RESOLUTION NO. 62
Submitted by Mr. SHIPSTEAD

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES,
April 17 (calendar day, April 24), 1933.

Resolved, That the manuscript entitled “Contracts Payable in Gold”, by George Cyrus Thorpe, showing the legal effect of agree¬ments to pay in gold, be printed as a Senate document.

Attest.

Edwin A. Halsey,
Secretary.”

Wherein, the manuscript aforementioned, clearly states that due to certain issues related to agreements (1913) and others arising forthwith thereafter, “The ultimate ownership of all property is in the State; individual so-called “ownership” is only by virtue of Government, i.e., law, amounting to mere user; and use must be in accordance with law and subordinate to the necessities of the State.”

Now, when others not unlike ourselves, contemplate these facts along side the facts in support of the restrictions, reservations, and limitations on voting to exercise any presumable right to vote (to effect usages of Public Resources or Political Questions), per U.S. Const. Art. of Amdt. 14 and its restrictions reserved by the government, per Section 4 thereof, one now begins to see how all ‘Documents of Titles’ and Contracts or Agreements are used to leverage the continuing bankruptcy of 1933. Via ongoing national emergency bankruptcy reorganizations and currency manipulations.

Even if you aren’t able to accept these facts, little will change just because you choose to support some organization ((i.e. global warming, or torture, or end war, or civil liberties) you might choose, which may be viewed at some point by government not in its best interest.

And you might ask yourself, what can government do when it finds that its property is being used to finance propaganda it views as arbitrary. Read pages 13-15 of declaration of four freedoms at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

Having said all this, I will be constantly vigilant, awaiting evidenced, line for line, contrary to the documentary evidence we have proffered!

We honorably await any evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised within the Universal Declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

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By JDmysticDJ, November 15, 2010 at 11:24 am Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind

“Boy, it’s really scary when the most reasonable voice is GRYM…like being the fastest snail in the aquarium.”
——————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Maybe your perception that GRYMie is the fastest snail in the aquarium is because GRYMie hitched a ride on another, speedier creepy crawly.

GRYMie’s post:

By Go Right Young Man, November 14 at 4:18 pm Link to this comment

“Hypocrites and Bigots”

Pissed me off, as all his posts do; I went a little overboard with overkill, by writing a 4000 word rebuttal (2100 characters,) of this post. I’ve decided not to clutter this thread with 5 pages of rebuttal because it might be perceived as a personal vendetta, and not a legitimate attempt to rebut his co-opted drivel.

In the process of rebutting his drivel I discovered that his drivel was created by “The New Republic” and not by GRYMie. He lifted his drivel from “The New Republic” arguments A through E, word for word, without attribution. No big deal, accept that it clearly demonstrates my argument that people from the Right lack good character, and will use any deception to advance themselves and their ideology. Am I wrong? Doesn’t claiming another’s work as one’s own demonstrate a bad character?

Incidentally, GRYMie’s use of the “[Ho] bama” slur to his advantage reinforces my belief that some on the Left are guilty of being counter productive, and serve the interests of the Right with their venomous anger.

Be that as it may, Grymie’s post was easily rebutted, regardless of source. The Right has been guilty of creating racial divisiveness for decades, both nationally, and in the Southern Red States. Obama has been bending over backwards to avoid racial divisiveness, after all, it’s in his best interest to do so. Personally, I wish Obama had a little more Reverend Wright and a lot less Juan Williams in his character.

“The New Republic’s” use of tokenism in their spurious diatribe is obvious. For example, their pointing out that the Tea Party has endorsed female candidate’s smacks of chauvinism and I’ll argue that, with the exception California’s Firorina who would fit right in with Republican dogma, the more whacky losing female Tea Party endorsed candidates would have had about as much influence in the Republican Party as female politicians in Afghanistan do. Many of these disconnected Tea Party endorsed candidates were self funded to the tune of tens of millions of dollars, not forgetting the influence of the Citizens United decision.

Oddly, the most obvious Tea Party, self funded whacko, who was successful was Rick Scott, a former Healthcare CEO whose company was convicted of the worst case of Medicare fraud in history. His company escaped with a mere $175,000,000,000 (1.75 Billion, with a B) fine for their criminal behavior.

Explaining the two “tokens,” Rubio and Van Tran, is easy to understand when examining their campaigns and political perspective. Rubio the Cuban American candidate, opposed Sotomayor, supported Arizona’s SB1070, and supported repealing the citizenship provisions of the 14th amendment of the constitution. California’s Van Tran’s family was one of the few Vietnamese families allowed to immigrate to the U.S., he has a hard Right political perspective, and he was running against a Hispanic opponent in Orange County, that bastion of right-wing conservatism.

GRYMie attempts to use every one of Robinson’s articles to make charges of reverse racism, it’s his never ending irrational mantra. Anyone who denies the Tea Party and all their media supporters have been infected with racism, and have been busily engaged in promoting racial divisiveness is either blind, or disingenuous.

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By gerard, November 14, 2010 at 9:29 pm Link to this comment

Garth:  Who can we turn to?  There are a number of organizations working on all the key problems we have. They are understaffed and under financed.
  Choose a problem (i.e. global warming, or torture, or end war, or civil liberties) and Google it, looking for organizations working on that problem.
Contribute your time and money and support as you are able. Talk to friends and neighbors about forming a local support group. All of them have directions for action.

I’m not saying they will succeed—any or all—but I am sure they will fail if we here on TD pretend there is nothing we can do to help, and nobody is going anything. Denial of the facts is self-defeating.

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By Orbis Unum, November 14, 2010 at 7:59 pm Link to this comment

Re: garth, November 14 at 11:39 pm.

You state: “What frustrates me is when I look around and ask myself who can we turn to?”

Response: The answer lays in accepting personal liability. The image you face everyday before the Mirror life, will be the only answer! 

You state: “I think they have us by the short hairs.  That’s right where they want us, unless some alarm bell goes off that can be heard by more people, and we wake up.”

Response: When individuals serve complacency, anger, power, avarice, disgrace, ignorant bliss, stupidity, over grace, honor, and their own duty to uphold their dignity as created in the image and likeness of our Supreme Creator, then most assuredly, as Creation is manifested universally, their lot will be caste worthily amongst the burdens of utter subjugation, until a return of the Science of Right reason shall manifest itself by virtues deemed worthy of those capable of maintaining the foundational self-evident principles to which the Law’s of Nature and Nature’s Creator have entitled them.

The English radical individualist philosopher Herbert Spencer (1820-1903) distinguished between “rights properly so-called” (such as the rights to life, liberty and property) and presumed “political rights so-called” (such as the alleged right to vote). In his mind the latter were merely an “appliance” or an “instrument” for achieving the former. By 1879 Spencer was convinced that voting was not a very good way to preserve natural or political our rights but rather a means to put ourselves “in bondage” to the state:   

“...the acquirement of so-called political rights is by no means equivalent to the acquirement of rights properly so-called. The one is but an instrumentality for the obtainment and maintenance of the other; and it may or may not be used to achieve those ends. The essential question is–How are rights, properly so-called, to be preserved–defended against aggressors, foreign and domestic? This or that system of government is but a system of appliances. Government by representation is one of these systems of appliances; and the choosing of representatives by the votes of all citizens is one of various ways in which a representative government may be formed. Hence voting being simply a method of creating an appliance for the preservation of rights, the question is whether universal possession of votes conduces to creation of the best appliance for preservation of rights. We have seen above that it does not effectually secure this end; and we shall hereafter see that under existing conditions it is not likely to secure it.”

So, if voting can not secure these right to life, liberty and property within the State were you currently reside, along side the fact that it can be proven this is your only political right you have to exercise with certain restrictions (unable to question the Public Debt per U.S. Const. Art of Amdt 14, Sec. 4), what then brethren?

In support of my continuing challenge throughout voluminous postings herein, one only has to avail themselves of facts we present, if they have any honorable bone in them, to accept the challenge, by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

Having said all this, I will be constantly vigilant, awaiting evidenced, line for line, contrary to the documentary evidence we have proffered!

We honorably await any evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised within the Universal Declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!!!

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By balkas, November 14, 2010 at 7:57 pm Link to this comment

if the constitution is not emendable [to warlords and masters of people and 99%
of u.s. pop] to any significant degree -and a prez swears an oath to uphold it as
is, proves just that—then slavery was ok and still shld be ok.
but also every u.s. war is ok as well.
and a prez who faithfully follows u.s. constitution
[and each one has to date] cannot be prosecuted for waging any war, torture,
assassinations, etc.

every act by w.h-congress-judiciary is correct and in accords to commands by
the constitution, and against an ‘alien’ pop a fortiori so.
pols also often proclaim the we [u.s] are nation of laws; laws being fulfilled
[since no one is being jailed for breaking any law, what’s all this complaining
about?
in short, what ever u.s does is okayed by constitution. only an odd soldier is
wrong and givena a slap across the cheek!
and u.s. knows it is not fooling anyone! tnx

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By the worm, November 14, 2010 at 7:39 pm Link to this comment

The Democratic Party has lost its way and no longer acts on traditional
Democratic principles.

In 2008, 50 million voters thought they were voting for traditional Democratic
values, only to find out they werent.

Those 50 million stayed away from the polls in 2012 and voted for no one.
Democrats, Independents and some Republicans are represented in that 50
million.

The Dems tacking to the Right from 2008 -2010 probably cost them those 50
million votes.

Remember, Obama said “If everyone votes who voted in 2008, we win!”
But too many realized what they voted for in 2008 turned out to be Republican
governance at the White House, not Democratic, and, so, did not vote.

More and more will take a pass on voting in the future. It’s clear that Obama
and the Democrats have no interest in the middle class, and, certainly, the
Republicans will give us the shaft.

See Obama’s right-wing Budget Commission recommendations, to see
collusion against the middle class at the highest levels.

When a President elected by a cross section of American voters turns his back
on voters when he enters the White House, the voters learn very quickly that no
one - no one - speaks for them: not even the President they voted for.

The conclusion: Voting for Democrats makes little difference.

Obama should be ashamed.

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By Not One More!, November 14, 2010 at 7:37 pm Link to this comment

Eugene Robinson writes: “supporters of President Obama and his agenda ask me why so many Democrats in Washington don’t stand up for what they say they believe.”

That false premise is why voters who say they support progressive values but continue to vote for the democratic party shoot themselves in the foot every election. 

The democratic party leadership doesn’t give a damn about you, your healthcare, ending the war, your ability to make a living wage, your need to have clean air and water, or sustainable non-gmo food. They know that all they have to do is pretend that they care to get your vote.

In short, you’re screwed if you think that they will be your savior. If these past two years aren’t enough proof, then nothing will convince your foolish mind otherwise.

Good luck in fantasy land believing that the democrats are different than republicans and really care about you.

http://www.NotOneMore.US

http://www.AttilaAndTheHUNZ.com - check out the song “Don’t Trust the Government”

Insanity is expecting the democrats to be significantly different than the republicans.

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By garth, November 14, 2010 at 6:39 pm Link to this comment

” I use the term [BABOONUS WASHINGTONUS] to make the point that the split between the so called corrupt “elite”  and the actual destructive reality being experienced by American citizens is so complete that BABOONUS WASHINGTONUS is approaching complete irrelevance in regard to implementation of the sane financial/social/energy/environmental policy needed to ensure survival of a free Nation and its future.”
———————————————————
BABOONUS WASHINGTONUS fills the bill.  Ever watch a group of Baboons in a zoo or on a nature show.  They have vicious fangs, make ungodly noises and usually sit around picking nits off each other and eating them.  Our set of BABOONUS WASHINGTONUS does much the same.

For example, once a Congress is seated, the members look out for each other despite party affiliation.  Except, of course, in cases like the banking scandal of the 90s where the stink was too pungent even for them, so they threw Joe Early off the gravy train. 

All they do is trade votes on bills which are usually written by business.  You vote for this and give me some cover.  I vote for that for you.  {handshake}

They hire each other’s friends and relatives.  Baboon I hires Baboon II’s friend if Baboon II will hire Baboon I’s nephew, niece or friend.  But that’s small potatoes.

With the upcoming votes on Taxes, Energy, Social Security, Medicare, and the Defense spending for these evil wars, they are going to demoralize and impoverish millions, and with the Cap & Trade they are going to set up the groundwork for the next bubble-bust cycle.

With the Healthcare bill and the whimpy nature of Countess Sibelius, the insurance companies are driving the premiums so high that small companies can no longer afford them.  And don’t forget they have all those millions of workers and unemployed alike dreading when the mandate kicks in.  They can inflict more stress, more pain.

Big Pharma can continue to sell its poison unabated.  That’s payback for not calling Obama any bad names during the Insurance debate.

What frustrates me is when I look around and ask myself who can we turn to?  I see Democrats and Republicans acting in unison.  They are dancing to the tune of, We Are Center-right Nation. 

Now there’s a goddamn lie.  And it’s easily refuted. Check the polls on questions like, Would you be willing to pay more taxes for Single Payer?  About 72% say yes.

It’s a canard that the media echoes all the time.

Right now, I think the conspiracy theories are their way of playing with us.  Like a cat with a mouse before the kill.  They have the power and the control.  They can do whatever they want.  We can make noise, but they do the votes and they respond to the strings.

Hedge Fund Al is going to gore us. (Sorry.) We’ll pay for the research, and they’ll take the profits.  W. Va is being levelled to make way for a big pit to bury the carbon.  Florida, South Carolina and Georgia just passed bills that allow energy companies to charge customers for R&D work, a little surcharge, doncha know.

So this is our frenetic existence.  The heat is coming.  The heat is coming.  Oh no! 

Only it ain’t coming.

Watching us is like BABOONUS WASHINGTONUS watching fish in a fish bowl. 

And now the Fed releasing a fresh supply of $600 Billion more to the banks to ‘bolster the economy’.  That money is going to Foreign Investment.  It was all explained by Kucinich’s economic advisor, Micheal Hudson.  That’s why the G20 countries were bullshit at us.  We trying to meddle in their economies.  And you won’t hear it on the MSM shows.

I think they have us by the short hairs.  That’s right where they want us, unless some alarm bell goes off that can be heard by more people, and we wake up.

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By Orbis Unum, November 14, 2010 at 4:56 pm Link to this comment

Re: BR549, November 14 at 9:21 pm.

You state: “I think we have a duty, of a sort, to try to reach as many people as possible, in whatever ways we can. All I’m saying is that you sound extremely well educated, but I doubt many people are willing to listen to you.”

Response: I couldn’t agree more with the premise of ‘duty.’ Whatever one perceives acceptable in any social scheme or setting of things, whether individually or collectively requiring others to agree or otherwise, is unimportant when confronted with irrefutable evidence to support ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’ any reasonable premises, which requires of us ‘to test all things,’ which we owe a duty to our honorable ancestors of happy memory and to the just cause of Universal Peace. Upon, who’s steppingstones we venture to maintain such memorable pearls garnered from such graven sacrifices, to maintain for us, such precious universal principles to which the Law’s of Nature and Nature’s Creator entitle us. In the most humble attempt via the Science of Right Reason, that we presently speaking, shall do in like-kind for future generations if we dare!

I would honorable suggest the writings of the Reformation scholar and master of Latin prose Desiderius Erasmus, which set the stage with his manuscript entitled, ‘The Complaint of Peace (1521)’ via the personification of peace which comes to earth to deliver her verdict on the human race. She chastises kings and princes, church leaders, noblemen and ordinary soldiers alike for betraying their Christian values by waging unjust and unnecessary wars. Are we any less in stature by our very ‘duty’ to the Science of Right Reason, to any less in the name of Peace? When, as we state the evidence is beyond a reasonable doubt, to confront those entrusted with the welfare of Earth and its susceptibility to the advancement of Mankind to foist upon us, schemes evincing designs of total subjugation of All Walks of Life? 

In support of my continuing challenge throughout voluminous postings herein, one only has to avail themselves of facts we present, if they have any honorable bone in them, to accept the challenge, by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

Having said all this, I will be constantly vigilant, awaiting evidenced, line for line, contrary to the documentary evidence we have proffered!
We honorably await any evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised within the Universal Declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

And once again, as our humble attempt for those capable of presenting facts line for line, in the light of reasonable propositions or otherwise, just as a reminder for all those who honorably exchange ideas within the ‘Truthdig Forum’ while refraining from hateful or insolent behavior…always remember, sometimes while exchanging ideas, the time and respect we give, from a deep seated desire to foster harmonious behavior to garner enlightenment, can be met on the road of hopeful enlightenment, by those seeking to discourage, rather than exhorting to greater possibilities. My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!!!

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By BR549, November 14, 2010 at 4:21 pm Link to this comment

Orby,
I gotta tell you, if I were someone on the street and you tried to convince me that the government was some evil entity attempting to do us harm, I’d pass you a piece of tin foil and run, not walk, to the nearest exit. Hypothetically, assuming I was some uninformed pedestrian, if Garth or a number of others had tried to convince me of the same thing(s), I’d feel at least somewhat confident that the worst I’d be having to battle was my own sense of denial.

We all have the capacity to influence those around us after we exit the list here and attempt to impart this “wisdom” to others, but I have to tell you, personally, if you approached me on the street or at a family barbeque, I’d turn my back and walk away to try to find the beer cooler or the bar. Maybe you’re different off list, I don’t know, but I doubt that any of us would be here if we didn’t care, or have, as Morpheus put it, “a splinter in your mind” over all that is happening in the world today. I think we have a duty, of a sort, to try to reach as many people as possible, in whatever ways we can. All I’m saying is that you sound extremely well educated, but I doubt many people are willing to listen to you.

Take it for what it’s worth; use what you can and discard the rest, but hey, that’s what I see from over here in the spectator seats.

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By Orbis Unum, November 14, 2010 at 3:35 pm Link to this comment

Re: REDHORSE, November 14 at 7:45 pm.

You state: “I’m convinced that BABOONUS WASHINGTONUS is a diseased carrier of an infection that is killing America and us. That our posts for the most part only describe and complain about the symptoms of the disease because the MSM “machine” has created an actual National psychosis that exploits propagandist technique which instills paralytic fear, depression, anxiety and powerless hoplessness.”

Response: The ‘machine,’ which you rightly claim ‘exploits propagandist technique which instills paralytic fear, depression, anxiety and powerless hopelessness,’ has existed long before MSM.

In support of the aforementioned, we continue to proffer and challenge throughout voluminous postings herein, one only has to avail themselves of facts we present, if they have any honorable bone in them, to accept the challenge, by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

Having said all this, I will be constantly vigilant, awaiting evidenced, line for line, contrary to the documentary evidence we have proffered!
We honorably await any evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised within the Universal Declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

And once again, as our humble attempt for those capable of presenting facts line for line, in the light of reasonable propositions or otherwise, just as a reminder for all those who honorably exchange ideas within the ‘Truthdig Forum’ while refraining from hateful or insolent behavior…always remember, sometimes while exchanging ideas, the time and respect we give, from a deep seated desire to foster harmonious behavior to garner enlightenment, can be met on the road of hopeful enlightenment, by those seeking to discourage, rather than exhorting to greater possibilities. My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!!!

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By REDHORSE, November 14, 2010 at 2:45 pm Link to this comment

BABOONUS WASHINGTONUS is a term I use to describe ALL inhabitants of our corrupted political system. It tries to denote those possessed by, and who practice, willfull inhuman ignorance of consequence and avaricious greed at the expense of “We the people—”. I could care less what COLOR anybody is. That INCLUDES President Obama.

    I use the term to make the point that the split between the so called corrupt “elite”  and the actual destructive reality being experienced by American citizens is so complete that BABOONUS WASHINGTONUS is approaching complete irrelevance in regard to implementation of the sane financial/social/energy/environmental policy needed to ensure survival of a free Nation and its future.

    I’m convinced that BABOONUS WASHINGTONUS is a diseased carrier of an infection that is killing America and us. That our posts for the most part only describe and complain about the symptoms of the disease because the MSM “machine” has created an actual National psychosis that exploits propagandist technique which instills paralytic fear, depression, anxiety and powerless hoplessness.

    I suggest that the reason many threads disintegrate into ANXIOUS RAGEFUL theories of CONSPIRACY and SQUABBLE is:

    (1) Though most recognize the symptoms of the disease and their illness, fear of accepting the actual reality: That their lives, destiny and future has fallen into the hands of fascists thugs is more than they can bear, so they rationalize.

    (2) American political reality HAS NOT REACHED a “point of no return” but posters are ill with a kind of Stockholm or “battered wives” Syndrome denial which makes them identify with their abusers, pretend the abusers care for them and maintain the insane belief that the abuser will come to its senses if they “the victims” just try harder.

    BABOONUS WASHINGTONUS is a diseased murderous ape. ACTION AND ORGANIZATION by citizens on a local level to demand MAJOR CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM is the ONLY CURE that will begin recovery. INACTION IS CAPITULATION.

    Don’t be a HELP REFUSING COMPLAINER!! AMERICAN HEALTH NOW!!

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By BR549, November 14, 2010 at 2:23 pm Link to this comment

Garth,
About Tarpley, I didn’t know about him during his Larouche days, but he’s a regular with Alex and I find him to be quite credible.

About Global Warming, let’s break that down. First, we have to understand that these NWO parasites have found that they no longer need to wait for a calamity to happen in order to position themselves on the front of the wave and reap the benefits from it; now, they can make those events happen at a timing of their own choosing ..... to a point.

The Global Warming thing was thought about decades ago by many people, but the NWO pedophiles hadn’t properly positioned all their chess pieces to make the most of any shift. So, they stalled it. Industry would run full tilt. There was a near ZERO attempt to roll back the speed limits or encourage the American public to want smaller more fuel efficient vehicles. Vehicles like the old Toyota HiLux Diesel Pickup would probably get 500,000 miles out of them. The old Ford Taunus engine that was scrapped on their Cardinal project is still in use today after 50 years, being used for agricultural pumps and generators. I got 39 mpg out of mine in the ‘70s and that was with a carburetor; no fuel injection, which was far more efficient.

I, like you, believe Global Warming to be a definite issue, but don’t confuse it with the NWO needing to use it as an excuse to tax the living snot out of everyone through the Carbon Taxes Obama was so eager to muscle through before it ever became ratified by our legislature. I mean, that slime bag didn’t give a shit if it was legal or not; he was right there with the paperwork in hand, ready to sign all our lives away to the Rothschilds and the NWO.

If our government had any SINCERE policies around Global Warming, we would have long ago seen the government trying to influence advertising away from all these ads showing 4WDs ripping up clots of topsoil on the way to some construction site for yet another billionaire elitist’s mansion. And notice how the Toyota Tacoma gets larger and larger every year. Whatever happened to an inexpensive 2WD pickup ....... made in the USA, even?

Instead, we would have seen a push encouraging less stress and more family and community time, more time for church activities for those who do that. We would have had more shows on TV that were educational rather than outright anesthetizing, or doing away with programming between 10 PM and 6 AM altogether. (I can hear the uproar already.) However did we manage to survive before Saturday Night at the Movies appeared in 1961? Well, we did, and the quality of life was a lot better even if life might have been shorter.

Our government has known better for a long long time, it just chose not to do anything about any part of it unless enough people raised a stink and force the NWO train to take an alternate route. This NWO thing isn’t recent, it didn’t start even in 1913; it was in full swing during the Civil War and was even present during the demise of the Federalist Party (ca. 1815?)

I guess, in short, a number of these “social planning errors” could be divided into acts of omission and acts of commission; each one of those further divided into conscious vs. unconscious, but the bottom line is that the government had the knowledge and the where-with-all to do something a long time ago, but the elitists’ lust for power has been too busy staging war over the centuries to keep the populations occupied, both figuratively and literally, and to keep itself in power.

We need to go green out of the sheer necessity for efficient resource management (it only makes sense not to squander what our Creator has given us), but pompous buffoons like Prince Charles think everyone ELSE should be conserving water and petrol, while they prance about Ascot sipping tea, eating cakes, and wondering what the peasants are doing. What an asshole.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 14, 2010 at 1:33 pm Link to this comment

Boy, it’s really scary when the most reasonable voice is GRYM…like being the fastest snail in the aquarium.

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By garth, November 14, 2010 at 1:07 pm Link to this comment

New mantra:

Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for yourslf at the expense of your country!

Ventura is unmasking the Random Act Canard (RAC).  RAC says that all these calamities that befall us as a planet come as random acts.  If someone dares to check out the chicken coop, all they report is that there’s no one in there but those chicken.  And they say it’s from a reliable source:  the disembodied voice over the office loud speaker.

JD,

Thanks for your reply.  I heard about LaRouche and Tarpley, and I also heard Tarpley and he split because LaRouche was an egomaniac.

I tried watching LaRouche several times on EIR, and I couldn’t make any sense out of what he was saying.  He used to live near my sister in my home town. She told me he was somewhat of a local nuisance and crackpot then.  Tarpley’s from Pittsfield MA.  Maybe it’s in the water up here. But I think there is more than a grain of truth in what Tarpley writes. 

I have read most of the books that Tarpley has written so far and he seems to be more correct than all the other so called journalist in the MSM.  In comparison, they are disgusting.  They could be characterized as practicing non-journalism until they become complete propagandist, non-journalist.

Tarpley might be a nut; I have no way of knowing.  As Chomsky said about professional sports teams and their fans.  He has no way of knowing who these people are and why he should be supporting them. 

Back to politics: lying is now a way of life.  I try to read and then look at what happens.  MSM’s reporting doesn’t even come close.  It’s as if they want us to believe that all this nonsense going on is unrelated and there is no underlying connection.  “The rich just get richer and the poor just get poorer. C’est la vie.  We lie; you decide”

Well, as the saying goes, I was born at night, but not last night.

Tarpley is more revelatory than others I’ve read or listened to and has demonstrated to me, at least, to be more often right than wrong.

A good point is his 1997 prediction of the 2008 financial meltdown.  Another is his depiction of Obama. He was right on there as well.  And his autobiogra[hy of G. H. W. Bush.  He nails the Bush man in that one.

On the other hand, he says that Global Warming is a hoax.  I raised an eyebrow on that one.  But again, I just don’t know.  All I hear is the back-and-forth between Imfoff and his ilk, Big Oil, and the MSM. 

For me, it’s like Dean Acheson’s advice to Congress about the cold war military build-up. To paraphrase in my short-hand:  If we don’t build up and we’re attacked, we’re screwed.  If we do build up we have a chance of preventing an attack and all we’ve lost is money.

(I back the go-greeners, solar, bio-mass, wind, conservation.  The big powers, however, back nuclear or burying carbon.)

At any rate, I am at the point where I am sick and tired of being sick and tired and I’d like to walk around with a good clear sense in my own head, at least, of the world I live in, now that I have a good clear conscience.

When I feel like Mr. Hyde, I become a nihilist.  Like the SDS used to say their goal in the 1960s was to bring out the worst in BIG Brother and unmask the charade.  Bush started to take of the mask.  Obama put it back on with the help of a few of his friends.

I say the concept of a greater good is more than matched right now by a greater evil.

We have nothing to fear but fear itself, ...and the bogeyman.  So sleep with a flashlight.

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By balkas, November 14, 2010 at 12:57 pm Link to this comment

what uncle sam has done to date—having utter obedience of 99.99% of
americans—wld pale with what uncle wld do in future.
it depends on further such obedience and on disobedience of neoindians, when
uncle’s patience snaps.
but when it snaps, and it will i expect [1, 2, decades?] the planet wld look more
like the Red Planet than any scorched earth.

i expect pashtuns wld be the first to be nuked or chemicly attacked on the day
when uncle’s patience snaps.

And as always before, what uncle’s agents do to ‘aliens’ on behalf of uncle, wld
not only be ok, but a constitutional command. and then the refrain: it’s all
palin’s or clooney’s [who may become prezes by that time] fault.
they r shredding constitution, etcetc!

so fas uncle is waging moderate poverty in u.s. and warfare against neoindians;
mostly killing civilians and hanging onto chunks of pashtun land.

obviously, warlords cannot be happy with that; thus, leaving two options to
them: leave the country or take more of it, puppetize it even more and kill much
more people.
i am expecting the latter! god bless all children and devil may bless uncle sam
and his lawlessness! tnx

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By Orbis Unum, November 14, 2010 at 11:35 am Link to this comment

Re: BR549, November 14 at 3:54 pm.

You state: “well, what’s left to say?”

Response: Let us not condemn ITW’s effortless prose of retort, rather find satire…from satire. 

Speak, Satire;
for there’s none can tell like thee
Whether ‘tis folly, pride, or knavery,
That makes this discontented land appear
Less happy now in times of peace than war?
Why civil feuds disturb the nation more,
Than all our bloody wars have done before?
         
Fools out of favor grudge at knaves in place,
And men are always honest in disgrace:
The Court preferment’s make men knaves in course;
But they which would be in them would be worse.

‘Tis not at foreigners that we repine,
Would foreigners their perquisites resign:
The grand contention’s plainly to be seen,
To get some men put out, and some put in.

For this our Senators make long harangues,
And florid Members whet their polished tongues.

Statesmen are always sick of one disease,
And a good pension gives them present ease:
That’s the specific makes them all content
With any President and any Government.

Good patriots at Court abuses rail,
And all the nation’s grievances bewail;
But when the Presidency balsam’s once applied,
The zealot never fails to change his side;
And when he must the golden key resign,
The railing spirit comes about again.

Who shall this bubbled nation disabuse,
While they their own felicities refuse,
Who at the wars have made such mighty pother,
And now are falling out with one another:
With needless fears the jealous nation fill,
And always have been saved against their will:
Who ninety trillions notes have disbursed,
To be with peace and too much plenty cursed:
Who their old president eagerly undo,
And yet uneasily obey the new.

Search, Satire, search: a deep incision make;
The poison’s strong, the antidote’s too weak.

‘Tis pointed truth must manage this dispute,
And downright American, Americana confute.

Whet thy just anger at the nation’s pride,
And with keen phrase repel the vicious tide;
To Americana their own beginnings show,
And ask them why they slight their neighbors so.

Go back to elder times and ages past,
And nations into long oblivion cast;
To old Americana’s youthful days retire,
And there for true-born Englishmen inquire.

Americana freely will disown the name,
And hardly knows herself from whence they came:
Wonders that they of all men should pretend
To birth and blood, and for a name contend.

Go back to causes where our follies dwell,
And fetch the dark original from hell:
Speak, Satire, for there’s none like thee can tell.

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By JDmysticDJ, November 14, 2010 at 11:35 am Link to this comment

Garth

I respect your obvious desire to make things better, and your postings strike me as being intelligent, and that’s why your frequent references to Webster Tarpley puzzle me.

Webster Tarpley was one of Lynden LaRouche’s strongest supporters, and only a technicality kept him off the Lynden LaRouche ticket during LaRouche’s campaign for the presidency. Webster Tarpley is famous for his false flag theories. He is a truther, he wrote a report blaming the assassination of Italian Prime Minister Aldo Moro on the Masonic Lodge, he has a thing against the Dalai Lama, and he blames Great Britain for the two World Wars.

I believe that false flag incidents are a reality, and some have been exposed, the Lavon Affair for example, but like Lynden LaRouche, Tarpley believes in conspiracies on such a grand scale that they are unbelievable, and that’s why your references to him surprise me.

Aren’t there enough, well documented, valid criticisms of our governmental actions, without citing the totally unsupported paranoid ravings of LaRouche, Tarpley, and their ilk? The demons are very real, we don’t need to invent other demons, especially when these inventions destroy our credibility, and make us appear to be irrational.

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By Go Right Young Man, November 14, 2010 at 11:35 am Link to this comment

ITW,

I’ve seen the error of my ways.  Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

Using the term “Ho’ Bama” is not humorous at all.  It’s clearly a sign of the overt racist attitudes inherent on the Left side of contemporary American politics.  Just look at all the criticisms of the Black Man in office on this very page. 

Code words:

Clearly the phrase, “when are Dems going to fight back” is a call to arms and violence.

My eyes have been opened.  Racism in America is indeed rampant.  You’re my new hero!

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By Inherit The Wind, November 14, 2010 at 11:20 am Link to this comment

Right.  Got it.  Mysterious cabals.  Maybe it’s “The Beast” at work?

Hokum.  The threats are clear and obvious. 

As the religious cannot accept random evolution and so invent “Intelligent Design” to explain what they don’t understand, so you simply cannot accept the vast forces of human behavior and motivation so you need a super-secret cabal to direct it, like a James Bond “nefarious villain”.

Waste of time.

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By Go Right Young Man, November 14, 2010 at 11:18 am Link to this comment

Hypocrites and Bigots

Shout and throw blunt objects at the head of the U.S. President and you get a chuckle from many on the Left.  Dare to criticize U.S. Policy today (no blunt objects hurled) and get bludgeoned with the delusional and potentially violent charge of racism.

I mention this yet again because on election day Eugene Robinson in the Washington Post played that preemptory card to explain the repudiation of the Obama agenda. Here’s why that is hypocritical, bigoted, and delusional:

a) The anger is against the Obama agenda and those who promote it. A Nancy Pelosi is as unpopular, or more unpopular, than Barack Obama. Lots of white-male entrenched incumbents lost not because they supported a black man, but because they oversaw the government takeover of healthcare, borrowed $3 trillion in 21 months, perpetuated the “culture of corruption,” and saw unemployment rise to 10%.

b) The Tea Party zealots backed all sorts of candidates, women like Sharron Angle, Hispanics like Marco Rubio, blacks like Allen West, and Asians like Van Tran. Contrary to Robinson’s bigoted charges, race or gender was incidental — not essential — to their support.

c) Barack Obama has encountered no more venom — and in fact much less — than what George Bush or Bill Clinton endured. As of yet, thank God, we have not seen an Alfred Knopf novel like Checkpoint aimed at Obama, or anything like the 2006 Toronto prize-winning film Death of a President, which imagined the shooting of George Bush. I don’t recall Robinson at the time suggesting that such sick, unhinged hatred of Bush was either untoward or motivated by nefarious forces.

d) By 2001 the two highest foreign policy officials of the US government — Secretary of State and National Security Advisor — were both African-Americans — and appointed by George Bush. There was some racism directed at them, but it came mostly from the anti-war Left (cf. the despicable comments of a Harry Belafonte) — and especially from abroad, as in the case of the sick, anti-Rice cartoons that appeared in the Palestinian papers. Again, I don’t recall outrage from Robinson over that overt racism.

e) To the degree racial divisiveness is more apparent after 2008, it is largely due to the Obama administration. The president himself called for Latinos to see Republicans as “enemies.” He appealed to racial groups to vote on the basis that the Republicans did not wish them to. He used racially loaded imagery to suggest that the Republicans should sit in the back of the car. He suggested that the Cambridge police, on no evidence, had engaged in stereotyping and had acted stupidly. His attorney general called Americans “cowards” for not wishing to talk about race on his terms. No need to repeat the past racist rants of Van Jones. His Supreme Court nominee gave reasons why a “wise Latina” intrinsically would make a better judge than a white counterpart. And all this came after the 2008 mess with the overt racist Rev. Wright, the “typical white person” slur, and the condescending put-down of the white clingers of Pennsylvania. To the degree racial polarization has surfaced, it has been due entirely to Barack Obama’s modus operandi, saying different things to different audiences, predicated on their race — and whether the comments are thought to remain private and not for public dissemination.

f) One thing has changed, however. The near obsessive use of the slur “racist” in lieu of an argument has now so inflated the currency of that charge that it has been rendered meaningless — and, in fact, tells us far more about the character of the accusers than of the intended target.

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By Michael Cavlan RN, November 14, 2010 at 11:13 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Garth States

“Also, regarding Jesse Ventura, as I said before, he’s kind of a blue collar guy
with a blue collar format that I would suggest was devised to bring the
message to those who would only choose some mindless GD football game to
vent their anger onto. It certainly isn’t documentary caliber, but that in no way
detracts from the research material being presented. I think that format was
brilliant.”

He might be blue collar but he seems to have a mind like a steel trap and the
cujones to do what he’s doing along with very effective facial expression.

I respond

Jesse Ventura was my Governor. Out here in Minnesota we had bumper stickers
“Our Governor Can Kick Your Governor’s Ass”

However, Garth’s statement above REEKS of classism, probably with out being
aware of it. Jesse might be blue collar BUT has a mind like a steel trap? Excuse
the fuck out of me but WTF does that mean? I am blue collar, come from blue
collar stock. I use the term Poor White Trash and damned proud of it all the
time. I would love to see that as a bumper sticker.

Chris Hedges has done a series of articles on how the “left” or if you like the
vewy vewy pwogwessive wibewal groups have lost the working class in this
country. Oh and BTW as an aside, screw Hillary Clinton while we are at it.

To return though to the theme of George Carlin and the owners of this country.
They OWN the Dems (and by extension their apologists) they OWN the Repubs,
they OWN the Tea Party (a good section of them anyway) they OWN the media
(which supports all of the above)

However, I disagreed with George Carlin RIP in one aspect. He said it would
never change. We can, if we choose “loose” our owners. That is why I have
advocated so strongly in the creation of a strong, unafraid, viable third party
movement as a PART of a strategy of breaking free from the corporate owners.

What I never expected though, to be brutally honest was the level of naked
cowardice of the so called “left”, What I call the vewy vewy pwogwessive
wibewal class to abandon any and all principles and cling to the Democrats.
People, vewy vewy pwogwessive people wail about the Supreme Court ruling
that allows corporate money to flood our so called democracy. The very same
“pwogwessive” folks who screamed about Ralph Nader “spoiling” things. This is
EXACTLY what Nader had tried to warn us all about.

I say this from personal experience. Right here in Minnesota.

I am not out of the fight though.. Far, far from it. Although the words of Dr
Martin Luther King do take on a whole new meaning for me.

We will not remember the words of our enemies but instead the silence of our
friends.

The vewy vewy wibewal pwogwessives.

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By BR549, November 14, 2010 at 10:54 am Link to this comment

ITW,
All that stuff you cite is umpteen rungs down the ladder and I understand why it is difficult for some people to accept and digest. Comedic dismissal is not a cure. As long as people keep believing that all that needs worrying about are the issues
presented to them in the news, well, what’s left to say?

Maybe, some day they’ll get knocked up’side the head with that consciousness 2x4 and things will suddenly start to make sense. Until then, that world of denial (that “Blue Pill” state of consciousness) looks pretty good, huh?

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By Inherit The Wind, November 14, 2010 at 10:29 am Link to this comment

Blah, blah, blah.

“secret” cabals and dirty international conspiracies…

Great stuff for cheap novels.

The real threats are clear and obvious—the Koch Brothers funding attack ads.  The GOP announcing their goals are to stop any and all legislation that MAY make the President look good, even when it’s in the nation’s best interest (They are about to oppose the latest US/Russian nuke treaty—just to keep Obama from a “victory”).
The Supremes are making decisions that ALWAYS favor corporations over government, and favor government over individual rights.
Corporations are pouring billions into lobbies to cut off needed regulation.

You don’t need crack-pot conspiracy theories and mystical cabals to see and recognize the real threat.  The only thing hiding it is the willful stupidity of Americans.

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By BR549, November 14, 2010 at 10:08 am Link to this comment

Garth,
Re: Jesse
I see what you’re getting at regarding the images. The fact is that he IS reaching a far broader audience and it is precisely because he brought the show to them instead of expecting the audience to come to him. The steel trap and cojones part, I agree with. The man is not just committed, he truly cares for this country he once fought to protect ........ what’s left of it, anyway.

As for the Irving Kristol stuff, yes, that eugenicist mindset is straight from the texts of the Bilderberg Group. Already documented. I keep looking into how the English Crown decided long ago that, since it could no longer support physical wars with countries, it would wage monetary wars with them, instead. To think that our own judiciary LEGALLY views admiralty law above our own Constitution and plays countless mind games in the courtroom to trip up someone so that they inadvertently forfeit their natural rights is appalling. So not only do we have the politicians prostituting themselves as they claw their way to the top of the pile of bodies they created, we have the judicial branch corrupted just as much. All three branches of government have been contorted into this sick anemic artifice of a once fine Republic.

The Boston Tea Party was the 170’s version of Jesse’s show, but the real reasons behind the Revolution were probably more about the realization of how parasitic the English Crown was and how it would stop at nothing to find some way to ensnare the colonies back within its tentacles. Since that time, the seat of the crown has been slowly overtaken by interbred Germans and along with the Rothschilds and that ilk, possess some errant gene that sees them as being spiritually adept enough to play God and run the planet.

ITW:
You appear to still be in a total state of denial in dismissing the discussion to the point of “aliens”. No one said anything about aliens, ITW, this stuff is all happening right under your own nose and you continue to miss it; not only the information, but the point. There’s always room for more people on the bus, so feel free to hop on, but when NPR has now started to introduce topics that Alex Jones and Drudge brought out several years ago, I think it’s time to retire the rose colored glasses of yours. I mean, even Glenn Beck has started to copy part of Alex Jone’s material. What does that tell you? Personally, I think Beck is a panty-waste, but that’s just my opinion. Garth’s mention of the Kristols’ mindset is not fiction; it’s fact. It is the scary machinations of the Huxley brothers and other eugenicists of a hundred years ago, even before the world had a population issue. These are sick people whose only goal in life is to lie, steal, and cheat their way to the top in order to pretend to be Gods, and at some point God will be coming back for an accounting and, as much as see him as a “loving” God, ........ he will be PISSED and some people are going to be sent to their rooms without dinner.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 13, 2010 at 11:17 pm Link to this comment

Oh, shit! When do the evil aliens from outer space come in? Or the pod people?

And why don’t they use that flashy thing on you?

And don’t we have the home planet advantage?

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By garth, November 13, 2010 at 10:43 pm Link to this comment

BR549,

“Also, regarding Jesse Ventura, as I said before, he’s kind of a blue collar guy with a blue collar format that I would suggest was devised to bring the message to those who would only choose some mindless GD football game to vent their anger onto. It certainly isn’t documentary caliber, but that in no way detracts from the research material being presented. I think that format was brilliant.”

He might be blue collar but he seems to have a mind like a steel trap and the cujones to do what he’s doing along with very effective facial expression.

Oddly enough, it’s the format that gets to me.  I can see the need to use that format for wider appeal but the show seems to stick to it as if it were a template with no room for variation.

I am not ssying a documentary form would be right either with just head-shot interviews, but the image flash and change.  It reminded me of Utah Phillips, the old folk singer who just died a few years ago.  He lived alone and someone gave him a tv.  He watched it for a short while and got edgy because the images were flashing by like some kind of light show. 

He took the tv out to his yard, set it on a stump and blasted it with his shotgun.

I just wish that he could slow it down a little with the images.  Let the person being interviewed make a point, rather than appear to be delivering a sound bite.

For example, the thing about Legatus. He was developing that slant, and all of a sudden he dropped it.

As for the scene with Alex Jones and the caskets, there are some crackpot social scientist, Irving Kristol, William Kristol’s father for one, who believe that the only way they can get this planet to point where they’d like it is to start over.  That meant to him, get the population down to 50 million. He actually wrote it in one of his theses.

Megalomania?


Anyway, I like the show, and I hope they can get a little creative with the format.  Use some leeway.

The information itself is powerful enough, especially when he goes to Congress and you see some of these privatized politicos answer Ventura’s questions.  After seeing them preen on C-SPAN, it’s an eye-opener.

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By BR549, November 13, 2010 at 10:30 pm Link to this comment

johncp,

In order to be civil here, I’ll just say that I believe you’re grossly mistaken about Hilary and her motives. If I sound a bit harsh regarding her, that is why.

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By garth, November 13, 2010 at 9:58 pm Link to this comment

johncp,
“She maintained a 25 point lead, with the voters, throughout the nomination battle, until Wall St. and the Oil Giants brought out their big guns, namely Big Media networks, to destroy her.”

In one of Webster Tarpley’s books about the Obama candidacy, Tarpley tells a story about the Democratic Convention in Denver.  The Obama camp and the DNC wanted to avoid a floor fight.  Two Clinton delegates, PUMAs, had spoken out that they weren’t going to just give in. 

They were found dead in their hotel rooms.  I think the news media carried the story that they had had heart attacks.

No floor fight. 

That added extra emphasis to, Yes, we can!

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By BR549, November 13, 2010 at 9:54 pm Link to this comment

Garth,
Listen to Atty. Phil Berg’s legal argument against Obama, sometime. Alex has him on his show occasionally.

Also, regarding Jesse Ventura, as I said before, he’s kind of a blue collar guy with a blue collar format that I would suggest was devised to bring the message to those who would only choose some mindless GD football game to vent their anger onto. It certainly isn’t documentary caliber, but that in no way detracts from the research material being presented. I think that format was brilliant.

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By BR549, November 13, 2010 at 9:41 pm Link to this comment

Wexler,

You didn’t leave much out, there. Well, maybe perhaps the Posse Comitatus issue and the gradual build up of UN troops “supposedly” just training on US soil (exactly when are they all going back home), the continuation of the construction of the 850 detention facilities, and Obama’s frenetic insistence to push Cap and Trade through before it had a chance to even be ratified by the legislature. Hmmm!!

The list goes on and on and all of these failures are only added to the list of sellouts made by the Clintons and the Bushes in trying to ram this New World Order bullshit down our throats to subvert the Constitution so they can carve up the US into pieces to placate the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers.

When these troops start to carry people away, one by one, what do you want to bet that everyone will just turn a blind eye and not get involved, just like in Germany. What if when a squad of these goons came to haul someone away, that they were mowed down by “concerned neighbors” and buried in their own APC? The only foreign soldiers that would be over here waiting for some action would be the European mercenary sociopaths who haven’t figured out how to preserve life because they’ve spent so much of their life learning how to destroy it.

Screw our legislature for letting this happen. If they had any testicles, they’d put a stop to all of this, right now. Override Napolitano,  Obama, and that Pelosi piece of shit and just do what is right for a change. Instead, they’re still all wondering how well they’ll all fair after the dust settles. Lame-ass cowards, all of them.

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By johncp, November 13, 2010 at 9:30 pm Link to this comment

OCJIM
Hillary had more than “backbone,” she had character, intelligence, far beyond anything to be found in Obama, and gravitas in abundance.  Obama has none of these. Only right-wingers and the diminishing, but still evident and hopeless, Clinton haters, attack Hillary, with nothing in their arsenal except bitterness and blindness.  Just mention her name, in the prescence of these half-wits, and, like wind-up toys, they mouth all the nonsence against her that they’ve been carefully trained to deliver.  When it’s pointed out to them, that Hillary is guilty of the same wrongs that other politicians are engaged in, they quickly retreat. It’s not her “wrongs” that distinguish her among politicians; they all commit the same wrongs.  It’s her winning qualities that justify her standing in current polls, as one of the two most popular and beloved politicians in the world; the other being her husband.  Hillary was easily the best candidate before the nomination, and the polls proved it.  She maintained a 25 point lead, with the voters, throughout the nomination battle, until Wall St. and the Oil Giants brought out their big guns, namely Big Media networks, to destroy her.  She has recently said that she wouldn’t run again.  A tragic, though understandable, decision, since there is no one else that can take her place, and we allowed an incompetent Chicago hustler, to take the presidency.  Now Big Media are working hard to bolster Obama’s ongoing declining image.  Funny how many of the very same people that voted for him are abandoning the fool.  The political assassination of Hillary, by the worst elements in the economic elite, particularly the owners of Media, is one of the worst disasters of our time.  I certainly hope that she can be persuaded to change her mind, and run again.

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By garth, November 13, 2010 at 9:26 pm Link to this comment

BR549

“Think about how much easier it is to vent on [Someone]  or whomever than it is to embrace the truly evil natures of the Bilderberg Group and then be able to make sense of it enough to help devise a strategy to eliminate that problem.”

I think you hit the nail right on the head with that sentence.  Not only is it difficult to make sense of the evil natures of the Bilderberg Group, but wading through the posts on TD can sometimes be like walking through a mine-field.  This front here, that group there.  It’s hard to tell who is authentic.

Reminds me of Dr. Zhivago.  It’s hard to know which ones are real and who are the fakirs. There’s just a lot of reading to do and a lot of reading between the lines when you feel damned because you can’t find a reliable news source.

I am beginning to agree with you about Jesse Ventura.  I saw another one of his programs last night.  This one was about the Wall Street Grand Robbery.  Taibbi, Wm Black and Ms Nomi Prins from Goldman Sachs, Baer Streans and Lehmann Brothers certainly added versimilitude to Ventura’s report.

I agreed with him in this issue though before I saw the show.

Also, Obama lied through his teeth about his stand on Nuclear Power.  He and Steven Chu want to issue $55 billion (or they already have) in guaranteed loans to the Nuclear Power people.  It is estimated that fifty per-cent of these plants will fail.  But that doesn’t matter, the tax payer is slated to pick up the tab.

That’s Obama.  Talk about white wash.  He passed the bar only when they changed the exam to multiple guess.

And there’s no way that I’ll believe that he came out of nowhere in 2004 to become President in 2008. If I were hand-picked to head up some company, does anyone think that some schmoe is going to get in the way?

It’s a grand example of SNAFU: System Normal, All Fucked Up.

But your idea of a stategy piqued my interest.  All over the radio, all you hear is contradictory blather.  Mind-numbing, demobilising blather. We gotta do this, but we can’t say this.  Or here’s the plan, as if someone is listening.

The worst one, though, is, Obama will listen up and change his course.  Honestly, can anyone look at him and say, “Now there’s go-getter.”  He’s just a little boy, a mental slouch; has been all his life, and now he’s just having a grand time being the first (and maybe the last) African-American President of the United States of America.

And as far as lawyering goes, he couldn’t argue his way out of a paper bag.

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By William W. Wexler, November 13, 2010 at 7:43 pm Link to this comment

I realized in April or May 2008 after working for months on the Obama campaign in Iowa that he was not the person that he pretends to be. 

Obama supporters like to point to the list of accomplishments in the first 2 years.  We still have a jackass running around who freely admits that he ordered the torture of prisoners.  We still have Gitmo.  We still have 2 wars/occupations going and nobody even mentioned them, not even in passing, during the last campaign.  We still have no solutions or even any movement towards solutions on immigration, climate change, oil company accountability, health care for the poorest, legal equality for all including gays to marry and serve in the military, ending domestic spying and repealing the USA Patriot Act, and so on and so on.

So it’s not like I was really EXPECTING something to happen on these and many other progressive issues, but since the progressives are the people who actually get Democrats elected it would be nice if they threw us a bone once in a while.

-Wexler

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By Inherit The Wind, November 13, 2010 at 6:42 pm Link to this comment

JDMystic:
GRYMie dishonors all the people who struggled, bled and died to fight the years of racism in this country.  He does it by discounting racist attacks on non-whites, and by pretending attacks on his white heroes are racist.

He’s a phony and a hypocrite who’s trying to emasculate the valid criticisms of an overtly racist and homogeneous movement.

He’s also, yet again, derailed a thread from its REAL purpose to try to cloud people’s views of the Right and its struggle to create a “Christian” fascist America.

The issue should get back to why the Democratic LEADERS have lost the faith of the Democratic faithful—and why they stayed away from the polls. 

But meantime GRYMie is finding reasons and rationalizations to defend every right-wing racist.

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By jonathonk99, November 13, 2010 at 6:35 pm Link to this comment

“The people have been getting royally screwed since
the early 60’s when Lyndon Johnson took over as
president.”


Out of general curiosity.. what the hell are you babbling about?  What about
passing the Civil Right’s amendments , Medicare,  and Medicaid.. those were all
under the Johnson administration correct?

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By Orbis Unum, November 13, 2010 at 5:40 pm Link to this comment

Re: garth, November 13 at 9:24 pm.

You state: “I think the “Not” voting is the worst of all worlds.”

Response: No, the worst of all worlds is believing that voting makes a difference.

Let see, as further evidenced of the above stated premise, we proffer the fact that in December of 2004 the U.S. Department of Justice for United States, et al. (Defendant), responded to a brief filed by We the People Foundation, Inc. et all (Plaintiffs)in the Distr. Crt. of D.C., Case No. 1:04-cv-01211 EGS.

Within the DOJ’s reply brief for Motion to Dismiss Amended Complaint by Plaintiffs’, the DOJ revealed that, e.g., “NOTHING IN THE CONSTITUTION REQUIRES THE DEFENDANT TO ‘ADEQUATELY RESPOND’ TO PLAINTIFFS’ CORRESPONDENCE by revealing that “Plaintiffs’ complaint purportedly arises from the mailing of approximately 1,600 so-called ‘petition for redress of grievances’ to each the President of the United States, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Commissioner of Internal Revenue, the Attorney General, the United States Congress, the Speaker of the House of Representatives, and the Senate Majority Leader. These “petitions” relate primarily to the constitutionality and legality of the federal income tax, but also to “the war powers clauses of the constitution and the Iraqi Resolution, the money clauses of the constitution and the federal reserve system and the ‘privacy’ clauses of the constitution and the USA Patriot Act,” and that in the Civil War era, however Congress enacted rules abolishing the duty to respond, a change later sanctioned by the U.S. Supreme Court, e.g., “petitioners’ have no constitutional right to force the government to listen to their views,” Minnesota State Board vs Knight, 465 U.S. 271, 283 (1984).

So, do you still believe in any presumed U.S. Constitutional 1st Article of Amendment Right? And if this is not enough for you to discern your lack of Standing to State a Claim for which relief can be granted or question the Public Debt per Article of Amendment 14, Section 4, then avail yourself of the further evidence of the programming to continue to deceive you and your children’s children into utter subjugation, per reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

We honorably await any evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised within the Universal Declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

Having said all this, I will be constantly vigilant, awaiting evidenced, line for line, contrary to the documentary evidence we have proffered!

And once again, as our humble attempt for those capable of presenting facts line for line, in the light of reasonable propositions or otherwise, just as a reminder for all those who honorably exchange ideas within the ‘Truthdig Forum’ while refraining from hateful or insolent behavior…always remember, sometimes while exchanging ideas, the time and respect we give, from a deep seated desire to foster harmonious behavior to garner enlightenment, can be met on the road of hopeful enlightenment, by those seeking to discourage, rather than exhorting to greater possibilities. My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!!!

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By garth, November 13, 2010 at 4:24 pm Link to this comment

I think the “Not” voting is the worst of all worlds.

They wanted to privatize Social Security and the USPS. Soon they’ll want to wipe out civil service altogether, judging from all the noise in the papers and on the rightie talk shows.

Let’s face it, they’ve privatized the elected Government, except for maybe a few loyal progressives and honorable Republicans.  Lately, all the bills are written by the big business.  And most of the jack-asses that vote for them do not know what’s in them.  I think John Conyers started that claptrap as he was seen in the Michael Moore movie, Fahrenheit 9/11, saying just that about a very important bill.

If you want to squeal about bad government and voter fraud after they’ve practiced bad government and voter suppression, then Id say it’s all in the wonderful game.  But to urge people not to vote, that smacks of a dead comedian or the Republican Party, a whole slew of dead comedians.

Speaking of a comedian, what happened to Alan Simpson’s promise to use humor to get the findings of his Debt Commission through the Congress?  Is he teaming with Erskine to form a comedy duo?  The comedic stylings of Simpson and Bowles.  We can laugh with them.  Har Har Hardy Har Har!

Access Hollywood wants to know.

Alas, as my humble attempt for those capable of presenting facts line for line, in the light of reasonable propositions or otherwise, just as a reminder for all those who honorably exchange ideas within the ‘Truthdig Forum’ while refraining from hateful or insolent behavior…always remember, sometimes while exchanging ideas, the time and respect we give, from a deep seated desire to foster harmonious behavior to garner enlightenment, can be met on the road of hopeful enlightenment, by those seeking to discourage, rather than exhorting to greater possibilities. Here’s to you, all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!!!

I remain hunkered over my keyboard working tirelessly till all is resolved. 

I think the two extra exclamation marks are over the top. But that’s me, lying right next to REDHORSE in the knife drawer.

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By mdgr, November 13, 2010 at 3:58 pm Link to this comment

Look in the mirror, Mr. Robinson.

You are viewing the roots of the delusion and complicity.

The proper points of accountability are not being assigned nor owned because of the kinds of mealy-mouthed distractions that you yourself keep writing about.

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By Orbis Unum, November 13, 2010 at 3:57 pm Link to this comment

Re: felicity, November 13 at 7:43 pm.

You state: “Orbus Unum - indeed may old George RIP.  It was he who pondered, or questioned, what to make of a country that would have the world believe that its military marauders are freedom-fighters when the same country also uses the terms fire-fighters and crime-fighters to describe groups employed to wipe out fires and crime.”

Response: Yes the term ‘fighter’ when used with compound hyphenated idioms, is indicative beyond any reasonable doubt describing the proverbial ‘fighter,’ set to destroy with utterly extreme prejudice, the preceding descriptive conjunctive terminology.

For this obvious reason, that which is cognitive to us and which was repeatedly expressed by George Carlin via stand-up comedy voluminous times, over and over again, in respect to their utterly insane acceptance of social conditioning being foisted upon the people, could only occur via their own perfect condition, to be subjected to illusions and systematic mass programs of hypnosis, perpetrated against them via Social Role Models and Centers of Education evincing total enslavement from womb to tomb!

For this reason and from our deepest concern for humanities well-being, have we in turn, repeatedly expressed solution oriented paradigms for those willing to question whether their present perfect condition which they finds themselves living in, is what they really want to pass on to their children’s children!   

In support of my continuing suggestions and/or challenge throughout voluminous postings herein, one only has to avail themselves of facts we present, if they have any honorable bone in them, to accept the challenge, by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

We honorably await any evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised within the Universal Declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

Having said all this, I will be constantly vigilant, awaiting evidenced, line for line, contrary to the documentary evidence we have proffered!

And once again, as our humble attempt for those capable of presenting facts line for line, in the light of reasonable propositions or otherwise, just as a reminder for all those who honorably exchange ideas within the ‘Truthdig Forum’ while refraining from hateful or insolent behavior…always remember, sometimes while exchanging ideas, the time and respect we give, from a deep seated desire to foster harmonious behavior to garner enlightenment, can be met on the road of hopeful enlightenment, by those seeking to discourage, rather than exhorting to greater possibilities. My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!!!

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By felicity, November 13, 2010 at 2:43 pm Link to this comment

Orbus Unum - indeed may old George RIP.  It was he who
pondered, or questioned, what to make of a country that
would have the world believe that its military
marauders are freedom-fighters when the same country
also uses the terms fire-fighters and crime-fighters to
describe groups employed to wipe out fires and crime.

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By Orbis Unum, November 13, 2010 at 2:34 pm Link to this comment

Re: garth, November 13 at 7:15 pm.

Quoting: REDHORSE. “I admit I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I have the distinct feeling we’re all getting, as they say these days,“played”. (A term spun from the manufactured criminal class and the for profit social industrial prison complex.)””

Response: Reiteration of Michael Cavlan RN, November 12 at 9:48 pm.

Quote: ““George Carlin had it right.

Forget the politicians. They are there to make you think you have a choice.

You don’t. You don’t have a choice.

You have owners. THEY OWN YOU.

It’s a big club folks and we aint in it.

George Carlin RIP “”

Response: Both REDHORSE & Michael Cavlan RN, state the undeniable reality via their commentary very succinctly!

In support of REDHORSE & Cavlan’s premise, we continue to proffer our suggestions and/or challenge throughout voluminous postings herein, one only has to avail themselves of the facts we present, if they have any honorable bone in them, to accept to prove us otherwise, by reading and responding to the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

We honorably await any evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised within the Universal Declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

Having said all this, I will be constantly vigilant, awaiting evidenced, line for line, contrary to the documentary evidence we have proffered!

And, as ‘Cavlan’ puts it, while I concur, George Carlin RIP.

And once again, as our humble attempt for those capable of presenting facts line for line, in the light of reasonable propositions or otherwise, just as a reminder for all those who honorably exchange ideas within the ‘Truthdig Forum’ while refraining from hateful or insolent behavior…always remember, sometimes while exchanging ideas, the time and respect we give, from a deep seated desire to foster harmonious behavior to garner enlightenment, can be met on the road of hopeful enlightenment, by those seeking to discourage, rather than exhorting to greater possibilities. My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!!!

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By BR549, November 13, 2010 at 2:31 pm Link to this comment

JDmysticDJ,

I agreed with you in the first two paragraphs of your post and then you went south on me. How does calling Obama “Baboonus Washingtonius”, by itself denote racism. I mean, Dubya was dumber than a rock and would make a baboon look like a freakin’ Rhodes Scholar. “Ho-bama” is no more racist against Barry than me calling Bush or Hilary political whores except that Soetoro’s truncated version happens to better rhyme the first syllable of his other last name.

They’re ALL whores (or hos) and they’re all baboons, so what’s the difference? Just watch how, as the tension on the economic front keeps rising, everyone on the list has nowhere to vent their insecurity over the whole situation except against each other. And that is e x a c t l y what they want us to do. As long as we are so blind that we can’t even focus on the real targets, they just make the next move. Taking aim at Obama or Bush the Idiot only proves that we are content bashing the puppet or worse, that we are clueless about the true forces involved in all of this. We then pick each other apart even more and they position their chess pieces even closer. So, it’s your guys’ call. We can continue to waste energy against each other or we can try to garner it and try to focus on the real targets.

Think about how much easier it is to vent on ITW (just picking a name out of a hat here) or whomever than it is to embrace the truly evil natures of the Bilderberg Group and then be able to make sense of it enough to help devise a strategy to eliminate that problem. That’s why the average person tunes out and watches American Idol, because they have no target to focus on. Groups like this are in the middle, where we have a sense of the problem and also know that the elites are hiding behind a set of “laws” that only serve to further their own power. Imagine for a moment a populace that, from earlier school years had conveyed upon its youth the responsibilities of owning a firearm. Switzerland has a mandate that each household have an assault rifle and everyone over a certain age must know how to use one. They have local community fairs/events that employ target matches and buffets of food and whatnot. Meanwhile, over here in la-la land, the Chicken Little voters that are so much in a frenzy over their own mortality and have to ban every gun in sight, never once bother to look past the end of their own nose to think about the mortality of the country caused by their social myopia.

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By garth, November 13, 2010 at 2:15 pm Link to this comment

Adele Stans of Alternet said today on C-SPAN that Democrats are making what could be a costly mistake by labelling the Tea Party Republicans as ‘crazy’.

Her next caller was a woman from Texas who demonstrated just how paranoid and crazy the tea bag rainbarrels are.  She accused George Soros of everything, a common refrain heard all over the right-wing blogosphere.

Underestimating the power of the money behind these people is a mistake, but accurately diagnosing their malady to expose the raw greed and lust for power behind them as exemplified by the Koch Brothers is just a start.  A concatenation of undeniable facts has to laid down to lead the news observer back to their sources with clarity and understanding.  A constant vigil.  Listen and refute.  Explain, explain, explain.  Attack, attack, attack.


REDHORSE
“Journalist are already reporting the commission is rigged with many of its members being highly paid by “rightwing think tanks”. In addition, Charlie Rose had a Harvard Professor of History on with a new book proclaiming Obama one of the greatest intellects to ever enter the White House. I admit I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I have the distinct feeling we’re all getting, as they say these days,“played”. (A term spun from the maufactured criminal class and the for profit social industrial prison complex.)”

———————————————

Have you noticed the most of the jokers who are on this commission?  Obama selected or OK’ed them.  Paul Ryan, a guy whose face looks like it was tranplanted from the Jack of Clubs, and Jeb Hensarling, a right wing choir boy from Texas.

I see what they are going to do. 

Obama will say you touch it first (the third rail).  I want to compromise.

Republicans will say no way.  You go first, but No taxes.

Obama will counter with, OK cut Social Security and no taxes.

They’ll cause a commotion to grab a news cycle, they’ll run into a closed door meeting and come out trumpets blaring to announce that Obama has reached a compromise with the Republicans.

The compromise will be: cut Social Security and no taxes.

The news talkers will continue with their din, “Well, the Liberals are not happy, but neither are the Republicans.  Just goes to show how it was a compromise.  Obama forced them to make the tough decisions.

Mark Shields of the phony Liberal wing and all the rest of the Liberal left talking heads will say it was a brave move by Obama and that it had to be done.

It won’t be long before this top heavy pile of SH_T we call the US economy will tip over.

You’ll have to go to the street yourself to watch the poor die there.  The news media won’t be talking about them for years to come, maybe never.

I think some of their heads on poles would look good for Holiday decorations.

They’d do at least as much to us.

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By Orbis Unum, November 13, 2010 at 2:06 pm Link to this comment

Re: Michael Cavlan RN, November 12 at 9:48 pm.

You state: “George Carlin had it right.

Forget the politicians. They are there to make you think you have a choice.

You don’t. You don’t have a choice.

You have owners. THEY OWN YOU.

It’s a big club folks and we aint in it.

George Carlin RIP “

Response: Michael Cavlan RN, states the undeniable reality via his commentary very succinctly!

In support of of Cavlan’s premise, we continue to proffer our suggestions and/or challenge throughout voluminous postings herein, one only has to avail themselves of the facts we present, if they have any honorable bone in them, to accept to prove us otherwise, by reading and responding to the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah

We honorably await any evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised within the Universal Declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

Having said all this, I will be constantly vigilant, awaiting evidenced, line for line, contrary to the documentary evidence we have proffered!

And, as ‘Cavlan’ puts it, while I concur, George Carlin RIP.

And once again, as our humble attempt for those capable of presenting facts line for line, in the light of reasonable propositions or otherwise, just as a reminder for all those who honorably exchange ideas within the ‘Truthdig Forum’ while refraining from hateful or insolent behavior…always remember, sometimes while exchanging ideas, the time and respect we give, from a deep seated desire to foster harmonious behavior to garner enlightenment, can be met on the road of hopeful enlightenment, by those seeking to discourage, rather than exhorting to greater possibilities. My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!!!

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By felicity, November 13, 2010 at 2:02 pm Link to this comment

We seem to have fallen victim to a kind of public
neurosis, a belief that the Bush years were perfectly
normal - swept under the rug: sacking habeas corpus;
warrantless searches; torture; invasion of two
sovereign nations…it’s a long list.

By agreement, to be sane, one must agree with what
others view as normal and then conform to it.  Didn’t
everyone, except one little boy, agree that the stark
naked Emperor’s new clothes were magnificent? 

We also seem to be suffering from a kind of sloppy
semantics (propaganda from the dissenters is a given
but from the proponents it’s weird.) For instance,
TARP is called a ‘bail-out’ when in actuality it’s a
kind of investment.  Example:  The Chrysler ‘bail-
out’ in ‘79 ended up profiting the fed to the tune of
$311,000,000.

(If I were to suspend common reason, I’d think that
obfuscation from the Right AND the Left has been the
order of the day.)

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By ocjim, November 13, 2010 at 1:51 pm Link to this comment

I am disgusted with Obama and all Dems without backbones. The only thing that can save Obama is the reprehensible choices that Repugs throw at us.

I am quite distraught that I didn’t support Hillary rather than Obama. At least she has a backbone.

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JDmysticDJ's avatar

By JDmysticDJ, November 13, 2010 at 1:18 pm Link to this comment

Let me begin by pointing out the obvious. GRYMie is like a man standing on a busy city street with a megaphone, shouting out “I’M A RACIST!”.” His proclivities are obvious to all who pass by. GRYMie is a dumbass little ditto (butt) head. Like his guru Limbaugh, GRYMie says “It’s all about race,” not white racism, but black racism. If I’m curious about what drivel GRYMie is offering, all I have to do is listen to Limbaugh, or visit Robinson’s latest, GRYMie will be there calling Robinson a bigot for the umpteenth bazillionth time.

Somehow GRYMie believes that progressives comparing Bush Jr. to a dumbass little monkey, is a racist or bigoted comment. Progressives aren’t pointing out the similarities between Bush Jr. and a dumbass little monkey, because he’s white, or because he’s a Republican, they’re pointing out that Bush Jr. is similar to a dumbass little monkey, because he is similar to dumbass little monkey, but this dumbass little monkey is a murdering, torturing dumbass little monkey, this murdering torturing dumbass little monkey would make for a good character in a teen pop culture horror flick, if it weren’t for the fact that this dumbass little murdering torturing monkey was/is very real.

The balance of my comment has to do with something that should be startling, but isn’t. Some progressives, or radicals, or whatever in the hell they are, are guilty of overt, and incontrovertible racism here on this thread. Comments like “[Ho] bama,” and “Baboonus Washingtonus” are overtly racist, or demonstrate a racist’s insensitivity at best.

I personally define myself as nominally a pacifist in political and military matters, I believe violence should only be used as defense to protect loved ones or innocents at the time of attack, but I’ll confess to instincts towards fantasies about a good solid right cross, with complete follow through to the teeth and jaw, when I read some of these comments. I don’t care how big and powerful some of these commentators might be, or how brave a warrior they might consider themselves to be, or if they consider themselves to be the chosen one fighting against the Matrix, I’m thinking of a heavily weighted Louisville Slugger.

So much for fantasies about violence, obviously I need to get a grip, on a Louisville Slugger, or maybe a simple truncheon.

No seriously, shut the fuck up, buttheads.

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By JJ Wolf, November 13, 2010 at 12:37 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

They question is always about them.  Why don’t they? Why do they?  It is obvious, they don’t do what the people want because the people are doing nothing about it.  No worker strikes, no rallies, no protest marches, no civil disobedience.

Even the filthy rich know that have to work at getting their way by paying off politicians, paying for lobbyists, buying mass media, funding campaigns, paying for propaganda.

Nothing was ever given to we the people.  We the people had to fight and die for everything we got.  However now, we the people are distracted with corporate taking head BS on cable, politicals campaigns that are really about nothing besides a personality contest (who do you want to sleep with or have a beer with), dancing with the stars, and favorite iTune like gadgets.

There is no free lunch.  Americans are getting what they deserve for constantly voting for the corporatist politicians.  How dumb can they be to endlessly vote for their worst interest. Too much Charlie Brown?

And just in case anyone missed the train.  Obama just isn’t that into you and never will be.  So stop expecting Obama to of his own fruition, do what is best for the people.  If he ever does anything for we the people, he will be forced by we the people to do it.

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By balkas, November 13, 2010 at 12:27 pm Link to this comment

please, no questions, i am in a war zone. i am, having finished last in my class, in
war with my newest computer—and even had to pay for.
the previous one i defeated by junking it after just 3 yrs.

the benefits of having finished last in each of my two classes, cannot be blessed
enough. but when it comes to computers, or my spelling, syntax, order it is pure
disorder.
i don’t think that any child cares about my unmeritocratic ways. that’s all i care
about! also spricht bozhidarevski. spasibo.

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photoshock's avatar

By photoshock, November 13, 2010 at 12:18 pm Link to this comment

There is nothing in the owner’s manual of politicians
about them standing up to their owners and fighting
the causes for the people. This is why the Democrat’s
will not stand up against the power elite and force
them to pay their fair share of the country’s debt
and money problems.
The people have been getting royally screwed since
the early 60’s when Lyndon Johnson took over as
president.
We are the little people not the real people that the
Supreme Court of the U.S. decided that corporations
were.
Until there is a radical and complete change in the
way that this country is governed and I mean complete
change, including the real power, the bureaucrats,
are completely changed and removed from the scene,
then nothing we rant about, nothing we do, no one we
think is on our side really is. In point of fact, the
country’s true power elite are nothing more than
self-serving and wasteful corporations that make up
the true power, the corporatocracy.
We the sheeple, will get nothing more than screwed
until we again revolutionize this country and take
over the power structure.

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By balkas, November 13, 2010 at 12:07 pm Link to this comment

it appears a fair thought that u.s. pop, not being evil as the warlords and
owners of people, just cld not perceive enormity of the problem they face, nor
enormous brutality-deceit of such people.
for that and other reasons i have been callling owners of people everywehre
“the greatest criminal minds”

indigenes of buffalonia also cld not fathom that whites coming to their lands cld
be as evil as it turned out.
had they known that, the first white man that showed on their shores, wld have
been drowned.
no, not watered, starved, sodomized, spat on, etc. just mercifully drowned.
the natives just weren’t that evil as were, and still are, asians and europeans.

but, then, ?all indigenes were by far more civilized than the socalled great
civilizations.
for one thing they had no priests or cults.  they had no boyars, amirs, counts,
kings, princes, jails, whores, taxes, army, police, ‘experts’, advisors, judges,
govt, laws, [de]regulations, ‘schools’, etc.

‘poor wretches-primitives’ [saves me saying socalled] only had
GUIDANCE/TUTORING.

caveat about evil of some asians and europeans. we were not like that pre-
priestly rule; we were most likely like zunis, hopis, haydas, ainus.

dehumanization of humans is still going on. it is quite evident in india and u.s.

for how else are the warlords to wage wars unless they previously complete
waging of poverty and ignorance?

no, it is not nature or god or nature-god who made us evil and much unsane,
but clerico-noble class of lowlife. tnx

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By REDHORSE, November 13, 2010 at 11:38 am Link to this comment

I was listening to an NPR interview this morning where a man was outlining the need to financially slice and dice Seniors, Vets, Homeowners Social Security well, everyone but the corporate rich and the wealthy elite. My blood was boiling and I was sure it was more Rethug claptrap.

    It was a member of Obama’s new budget study commission.

    Journalist are already reporting the commission is rigged with many of its members being highly paid by “rightwing think tanks”. In addition, Charlie Rose had a Harvard Professor of History on with a new book proclaiming Obama one of the greatest intellects to ever enter the White House. I admit I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I have the distinct feeling we’re all getting, as they say these days,“played”. (A term spun from the maufactured criminal class and the for profit social industrial prison complex.)

    I’d still like to place hope in the President, but in all honesty I can no longer find any rational human moral frame of reference from which to view either the President or our Congress. And, though I’m sure you’re sick of hearing me say it—I know I am, other than the destructive dangerous machinations and chaos they inflict on our lives, what purpose do they serve.

    More and more the only relevant question seems to be: How do we protect ourselves from them?

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By balkas, November 13, 2010 at 11:33 am Link to this comment

u.s. voelken [plural of volk] have always competed for uncles love. that’s probably
what teapartiers are doing now.
they fear losing their uncles favor and having a black man of a strange race for a
prez, heralds, to them, further estrangement form the beloved uncle.

uncle sam always had his favorites. the most favorite now appears to be not even
a folk, but a cult
horrors, the house of terrors, now even favoring talmudniks over not only waspish
but also their cult.
now, who wldn’t be envious?
but, the bottom line for children of palestine, afpak, iraq is always the same: have
ur squabbles, but just leaves be! fat chance, huh. tnx

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