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Ralph Nader Was Right About Barack Obama

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Posted on Mar 1, 2010
AP / Chris Carlson

By Chris Hedges

We owe Ralph Nader and Cynthia McKinney an apology. They were right about Barack Obama. They were right about the corporate state. They had the courage of their convictions and they stood fast despite wholesale defections and ridicule by liberals and progressives. 

Obama lies as cravenly, if not as crudely, as George W. Bush. He promised us that the transfer of $12.8 trillion in taxpayer money to Wall Street would open up credit and lending to the average consumer. The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. (FDIC), however, admitted last week that banks have reduced lending at the sharpest pace since 1942. As a senator, Obama promised he would filibuster amendments to the FISA Reform Act that retroactively made legal the wiretapping and monitoring of millions of American citizens without warrant; instead he supported passage of the loathsome legislation. He told us he would withdraw American troops from Iraq, close the detention facility at Guantánamo, end torture, restore civil liberties such as habeas corpus and create new jobs. None of this has happened.

He is shoving a health care bill down our throats that would give hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars to the private health insurance industry in the form of subsidies, and force millions of uninsured Americans to buy insurers’ defective products. These policies would come with ever-rising co-pays, deductibles and premiums and see most of the seriously ill left bankrupt and unable to afford medical care. Obama did nothing to halt the collapse of the Copenhagen climate conference, after promising meaningful environmental reform, and has left us at the mercy of corporations such as ExxonMobil. He empowers Israel’s brutal apartheid state. He has expanded the war in Afghanistan and Pakistan, where hundreds of civilians, including entire families, have been slaughtered by sophisticated weapons systems such as the Hellfire missile, which sucks the air out of victims’ lungs. And he is delivering war and death to Yemen, Somalia and perhaps Iran.

The illegal wars and occupations, the largest transference of wealth upward in American history and the egregious assault on civil liberties, all begun under George W. Bush, raise only a flicker of tepid protest from liberals when propagated by the Democrats. Liberals, unlike the right wing, are emotionally disabled. They appear not to feel. The tea-party protesters, the myopic supporters of Sarah Palin, the veterans signing up for Oath Keepers and the myriad of armed patriot groups have swept into their ranks legions of disenfranchised workers, angry libertarians, John Birchers and many who, until now, were never politically active. They articulate a legitimate rage. Yet liberals continue to speak in the bloodless language of issues and policies, and leave emotion and anger to the protofascists. Take a look at the 3,000-word suicide note left by Joe Stack, who flew his Piper Cherokee last month into an IRS office in Austin, Texas, murdering an IRS worker and injuring dozens. He was not alone in his rage.

“Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours?” Stack wrote. “Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political ‘representatives’ (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the ‘terrible health care problem’. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in.”

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The timidity of the left exposes its cowardice, lack of a moral compass and mounting political impotence. The left stands for nothing. The damage Obama and the Democrats have done is immense. But the damage liberals do the longer they beg Obama and the Democrats for a few scraps is worse. It is time to walk out on the Democrats. It is time to back alternative third-party candidates and grass-roots movements, no matter how marginal such support may be. If we do not take a stand soon we must prepare for the rise of a frightening protofascist movement, one that is already gaining huge ground among the permanently unemployed, a frightened middle class and frustrated low-wage workers. We are, even more than Glenn Beck or tea-party protesters, responsible for the gusts fanning the flames of right-wing revolt because we have failed to articulate a credible alternative.


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By BJMellow, November 23, 2010 at 1:36 pm Link to this comment

I don’t thin any gov’t will be able to ever govern a country according to his or her convictions. Sure, there are gross corruptions, and it’s quite sickening, but there are few if no alternatives. There’s a site I like that has an Obama-meter, showing the progress he’s making on fulfilling or not fulfilling his promises.

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/disaster recovery

I don’t know how unbiased the site is, but its an interesting marker of how the president is doing.

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By Night-Gaunt, August 28, 2010 at 6:53 pm Link to this comment

What we need are many people in business, gov’t, military and all other aspects of our life that is being affected by this & wo don’t like how things are going. I just don’t see it. It would be a tremendous thing indeed. Now if there is an organized and well funded group in action now I don’t see any real progress from their actions unless it is slowing down the change. Do you?

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By Shenonymous, August 28, 2010 at 3:57 pm Link to this comment

”Solutions may be simple but the mechanics are not. What do you
want from me on this? I am not an organizer. What you you do?”

Well yeah, mechanics are almost always complex.  But one step at a
time.  I believe you mentioned you gave some solutions, but I could
not find them.  I am just asking at the moment what are those
solutions?  Monumental action of people on the inside and outside
of what?  Our government? Our country? Their minds? 

What [would] I do?  It would depend?  I do not advocate any violence. 
But I do advocate socialized capitalism that is funded with social
capital.  And I also have often suggested energized grass roots. 

I am not trying to put you on the spot.  I am interested in seeing what
are possible amendments for the tremendously precarious condition are
a few things that are crucial for a safe and satisfying life for everyone
not just a more fortunate few.  If any one has a good idea I am very
willing to listen.  It stands to reason action might follow depending on
what it would take. 

A big problem I see in any initiative action is that a charismatic leader is
needed who understands the problems and also intelligently and calmly
is capable to proceed with a program.

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By Night-Gaunt, August 28, 2010 at 3:15 pm Link to this comment

”...that It will take a monumental action of people on the inside and outside to break it.”

Solutions may be simple but the mechanics are not. What do you want from me on this? I am not an organizer. What you you do?

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By Shenonymous, August 28, 2010 at 1:05 pm Link to this comment

What are your solutions Night-Gaunt?  I read and read and
couldn’t see what they were.  Please forgive if I somehow
overlooked them.

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By Night-Gaunt, August 28, 2010 at 11:37 am Link to this comment

What I have been saying is that the tangle is so tight and interlocking and compact and in so many places that It will take a monumental action of people on the inside and outside to break it. I don’t see it happening because our enemies have planned long and worked hard and been patient for 46 years, after failing in 1934 the started their take over in 1980 by stealth to today. It doesn’t look good and with that positive attitude crap making people look away if reality isn’t “positive” our enemies continue. We are at the brink. I don’t know why they didn’t want our gov’t to fall in 2008. We are still ripe for it now and an attack on Iran would do it. We would be plunged into a Great Depression. We have been in a Depression since 2001.

Its called coming late to the game under prepared, under organized, under funded, ill equipped and mostly ignorant of the problems. Most created by the Dominionists to ruin our Republic as they drain it dry to feed the infrastructure for their coming Holy American Empire. If I’m wrong then we will just implode and no aid from an organized and funded fascist groups. Ugly times are still ahead for us no matter how it shakes out. Any solutions other than those I spoke of?

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By ofersince72, August 28, 2010 at 3:51 am Link to this comment

1.  I have taken it seriously my whole life.
  2.  Their friends have already taken over our country
  3.  Journalists of Hedges caliber know that our country
    has been hijaked, and that it is not limited to
    Republicanism, but to duopolism

I do not fear republicans anymore than the democrats
and why should I????????????????????????????????????

what will they turn over the country to International
Investors…..already done
AS i stated, I will not be drug into the FEAR bullshit
that they have designed to split the public.
AND again, the essence or SUBSTANCE, of my posts
is ignored.
It isn’t me without substance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Report this
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By Shenonymous, August 28, 2010 at 3:39 am Link to this comment

”I take Republican obstruction as a given.” 

Better take it seriously else they will take over the country.

RE: Hedges, realistically, what more can be expected of a “reporter?”

Report this

By ofersince72, August 28, 2010 at 1:32 am Link to this comment

The criticism that I aimed at Hedges were for the
same reasons.

  Most all of his weekly columns concentrate on the
effect of an underlying problem.

  Little on how we arrived with the problems and nothing
to add of how to resolve the complex problems his
columns address.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 28, 2010 at 12:51 am Link to this comment

Ralph,

  That is what I always liked about you, always looking
forward and never dwelling on the past except for the
lessons learned.

  Well your and my time here is soon to run its course.
Our airwaves are more securely in the hands of the crime
then ever.  The economic travesty more dire than ever.
The ecology, on the brink.
and we are MOSQUEDEBATING still.
  Time to think of ourselves only??

Report this

By ofersince72, August 28, 2010 at 12:25 am Link to this comment

It was much easier to put an ad hominem attack on me
than to comment on the content of my posts.

  This is exactly what Fox News does.  Bury a messege
and defame the messenger.  And as the Shirley Sherrod
travisty showed, is effective.  No one on Truth Dig
even questioned why the Secretary of Agriculture so
hastily asked for Sherrod’s resignation. (except me)
All just concentrated on the mean spirt of Fox News.
Yet everyone already knew what Fox news was all about.
But not a soul questioned the Administration’s response.
  This same kind of crap goes on daily on Truth Dig.
THE CREAM OF THE CROP. Or, is the Webby Of The Year
just a gathering of Democrat Staffers?

Report this

By ofersince72, August 28, 2010 at 12:08 am Link to this comment

Which makes another point.  It isn’t the multible
posts that I made that irked many on here, it was where
I was taking the conversation.  Just as this thread
proved.  The journalists that contribute to Truth Dig
don’t even want to discuss where we go from here. This
seems to be the way with all of the “progressive” websites

  Much easier to talk about a mosque, or a general, or
a foolish Fox media personality.  It isn’t all that is
puzzeling.  I know what the major media’s motive is.
It has always been to keep the public talking non-issues
as issues.  And I can easily see how the NASCAR, Fox
crowd is easily sucummed to this. But the intellect of
our country, why and how is most frustrating and sad and
goes a long way to explain how our government was allowed
to be put in the situation that it is in right now.
THE CREAM OF THE CROP….has little interest in changing
a damn thing.  Problem with that, our governance and
the enviroment in which we are living is going to change
emensely.  It appears the citizenry is going to let the
corpostocracy dictate the change.
That will mean more Alan Simsons, more of the same
economic teams, more austerity, more death, more dumbing
down (if that is possible), and a terrible, terrible
world for our immediate posterity.
  Us baby boomers, we trashed in one generation, what it
took many to build.  We owe it to our children to discuss
where we go from here and not let the MSMs and the WAPO
dictate that to us.
  We arrived on the scene with a bang,  we ought to leave
with the same bang.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 27, 2010 at 11:46 pm Link to this comment

So the comments are restricted to the present situation, which everyone already knows, and not a
thought on where we go from here.  This is the reason
that I came to this thread that no one was using.
Not a soul wants to comment on how to get out of this fix.  Is it paranoia?  I have no idea why.

  This is also why most feel that my comments ruin
a thread.  I usually throw this thought into the conversation. However, there is little interest to solve
these problems.  Just comment on the sitution and how
we got here.  Why debate how we got here if we aren’t
going to discuss how to get out of here?

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By ofersince72, August 27, 2010 at 8:43 pm Link to this comment

I take Republican obstruction as a given.

The rivival of the Republican Party the last year and
a half,  after the American public was on their way to
completely trashing that party is another subject.

That is why it is so important to get primary election
law standardized federally along with financial reform.
So when you are given a majority, you know you can beat
the oppisition.  But since this isn’t going to happen
any time soon, if ever,  we need to find a way around the
two party system.  I don’t buy the fact that it can’t be
done.  The only reason it can’t be done, is the fear of
change really happening. That is understandable…
30 Americans either directly(most), or indirectly recieve
a check tied to the Military Industrial Complex.
It is estimated that 60 million, if you count all the
employment by defense contractors, are dependent on the
Military Industrial Complex for a check.  That is why
Democrats are locked into what we are doing.  However,
this employment system and economy is deathly because at
one point you have to show your hardware to make a case
to keep this system.  Now,  we have come so far with this
system, it owns us, not us them.  This isn’t even taking
into account that the ones that are profiting from this
actually own our debt and in so doing own us.  So it is
their military, their employment system, which has the
net effect of this government being their government.

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By Night-Gaunt, August 27, 2010 at 8:29 pm Link to this comment

What is left in occupied Iraq is a garrison force, with renamed soldiers as “advisers” (50,000), also 7,000 base guards and a large unspecified number of mercenary corporate soldiers in the mix. Just as they wanted in the first place. Pacification then let the proxy forces do most of the dirty work backed by the real owners of the land. Iraq is hardly vacated.

Nader‘s leaving the Democrats may not have been a good idea originally but it is moot now since he would have the same chance as Kucinnich of being allowed to get the nomination. The Democrats haven’t yet purged the contrarians* like the Republicans have but it will happen.

*Those are the ones that actually believe that the words in the Constitution/Bill of Rights are for freedoms for the widest possible members of the populace. A dying breed.

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By Shenonymous, August 27, 2010 at 7:57 pm Link to this comment

You can thank your Republican friends (I’m just being obnoxious). 
Apparently you did not watch the debates.  It was tried and it was
a primo fiasco.  It will come around again.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 27, 2010 at 7:50 pm Link to this comment

In 1992,  when the Democrats scrambled back into the

White House, they had control of Congress also..At that

time, many organizations had been calling for campaign

finance reform…I know that Common Cause and Public

Citizen threw millions of donated dollars, over a

twenty-five year period to bring this about.

  It didn’t happen, yet it should have been the very

first issue and legislation introduced while the Dems

held this power.  Same in 2008.  You can take it from

there, I don’t need to explain.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 27, 2010 at 7:42 pm Link to this comment

Ralph is a walking encyclopedia of knowledge.

He knows the inter workings of the American Government

better than anyone alive.  Why waste this resource?

Report this

By ofersince72, August 27, 2010 at 7:38 pm Link to this comment

Right now,  the Democrat Party ought to be

begging, down on their hands and knees for

R A L P H N A D E R to make one more stand and run

as a Democrat.  It would go a long way uniting this

country, and keeping the other pigs at bay.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 27, 2010 at 7:33 pm Link to this comment

It is very obvious that the general public is fed up

with the Democrat Party just as they were with the

Republican Party in 2006 & 2008.  So where do you want

the dissent, in the fringe republican ranks,  or find

some meaningful dialogue to keep disenfranchised citizens

within the “progressive community” even if it means going

outside the Democrat Party.  Promising them Dem Party

reform won’t work…...Their done with Democrats…

Report this

By ofersince72, August 27, 2010 at 7:26 pm Link to this comment

The reason being,  I am not going to argue if black
is white and white is black.

The whole world and even an ignorant U.S. public understands why Iraq and Afghan were invaded and occupied.
So I find it silly to go back there.

Just a hope, that very well may come true, because we have
a fed up public,  just maybe we will get a president that
promises peace and means it.  It will be a gigantic job
transforming the economy and I was just looking for some
one that might have some input. It would effect Wall Street hugely,  the housing market, the unemployment lines, and snowballs from there….....
Yet we have to do this for our survival, so how?

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By Shenonymous, August 27, 2010 at 6:35 pm Link to this comment

Well offersince72, I am sane and i am alive and I do believe.  And you
are denigrating me because I have a difference of opinion than you. 
That shows you do not have any substance of an argument and no
tolerance for differences.  You join the ranks of the pathetics.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 27, 2010 at 6:24 pm Link to this comment

Most of what your saying has been disputed, refuted,
and debunked a million times.

  You are trying to make this STILL , about a myth.

And that is you job for this forum.

  How are the Taliban, Pakistan, and a handful of mis-named people making it difficult?
  There is not a sane person alive that believes that
Obama has been trying to resolve and get out of either
occupation.
  But lets say we do,  how do we bring the troops home,
and down size the military?

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By Shenonymous, August 27, 2010 at 5:55 pm Link to this comment

It is about,  what if we got what we wanted, a ?president in 2012,
that said, “no more war”. How would? we turn it around??

You are right, offersince72, this forum is not about Nader only
about what he said.  Obama has essentially evacuated from Iraq.
He is making every reasonable effort to resolve Afghanistan, but
Pakistan, the Taliban, and al Qaeda are making it very difficult.
Notice that the vicious insurgents are still murdering Iraqis.  Iraq
does not yet have a running government!  The Shi’as, Sunnis, and
Kurds will not find a truce easily.  It has been thousands of years.
But I believe Obama will end US as a military force in Iraq.  I happen
to believe Obama needs to finish the Afghanistan military seat of war.
I think it is a reality that must be faced and all the complaining and
whining about it will not change that.  I hate war just as much as you
do, as anyone does.  But it is not a thing he can just leave, even if
most of the American public wants it.  I also believe Obama is working
to avoid a conflict with Iran.  We do not know what is going on in that
theater.  There is a lot of idle and ignorant speculation.  But I believe
Obama does not want any more war.  But if a Republican gets into that
office and if Republicans control the Congress we will I believe without
a doubt have more wars.  Why?  Because the armaments industry is
supported by and supports the Republican faction in this country.

I am not sure what you mean by turning it around?

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By ofersince72, August 27, 2010 at 5:16 pm Link to this comment

But this isn’t about Ralph Nader, or whether he
is/was, right or wrong. Nor would he want the discussion
made about him.

  It is about,  what if we got what we wanted,  a
president in 2012, that said, “no more war”. How would
we turn it around??

Report this
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By Shenonymous, August 27, 2010 at 4:36 pm Link to this comment

ffersince72, Nader might have been right, or he might not have. 
Time will tell.  But whatever is the case his influence is moot now. 
He has chosen not to be relevant because he was unable to let go of the
one star in his eye, to be POTUS.  That is a shame as he could have done
this country a world of good. 

Not everyone takes Hedges seriously.  But post away offersince72, I don’t
mind or care how many tiny posts you make.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 27, 2010 at 4:00 pm Link to this comment

Ralph Nader was Right About Barrack Obama   crishedges

Of course he was right, and he is still right, and also
was right thirty years ago.  He he was right to break
away from the Democrat Party years ago.  So what is
Cris Hedges trying to tell us here?  Everyone seems to
take Hedges seriously, as well they should.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 27, 2010 at 3:42 pm Link to this comment

I didn’t mess up anything of this thread.

And S U B S T A N C E ?????????????????????????????????

you must have got my point! ! ! ! ! !

Report this

By LJL, August 27, 2010 at 3:08 pm Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt,  Thank you.

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By Night-Gaunt, August 27, 2010 at 1:33 pm Link to this comment

Well ofersince72, so far you do a good job of clogging up any forum with multiple rapid fire comments of very little substance. Almost like you are carrying on a conversation with yourself. Why not use some discipline and conceive of something of more lasting substance and depth and make one post? Unless you are what you have recently embraced—-a forum Troll who exists just to mess things up for others. A pitiful life to be sure. Then that would make you and your fellow Trolls to be agents of chaos and entropy. Anti-order. Only humans would do such idiotic, destructive things.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 27, 2010 at 5:10 am Link to this comment

Thank you Ardee,  those were kind words from you.

How is the trucking business these days?

Report this

By ardee, August 27, 2010 at 2:31 am Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, August 26 at 9:08 pm

Having had four children and fifteen grandkids I certainly understand childishness. This aberrant and rather sad attention seeking person evokes pity rather than scorn frankly.

Just the way he responds with rote insult, calling those who disagree, or note his lack of substance, as Democrats or Obama supporters, despite longish histories of criticism of both and many references to voting Green or Indie, proves his uselessness.

One cannot help but wonder what life has done to this wretch to bring him to such a sorry state?

Report this

By ofersince72, August 26, 2010 at 11:40 pm Link to this comment

By the way, the change that you are speaking of

started way, way, before 1980…...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Just a good way to pin it on a republican president.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 26, 2010 at 11:33 pm Link to this comment

Protect your little Democrat domain Truth Dig….

with all the great informative journaliststs…....

OH, poor babies , a troll entered the room….............

Report this

By ofersince72, August 26, 2010 at 11:29 pm Link to this comment

Two Obama voters are going to educate me on
U.S. history of the last forty years…...

Thats just damn funny! ! ! ! !

Report this

By ofersince72, August 26, 2010 at 11:26 pm Link to this comment

These fishing trips get easier and easier…......

Report this

By ofersince72, August 26, 2010 at 11:25 pm Link to this comment

I believe that I pretty much spelled it out
asshole.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 26, 2010 at 11:21 pm Link to this comment

Hey Ralph,

  Those two posters are an excellent example why our
country was lost to the change that the last one spoke of.

  They are both full of shit and all talk….pretty
“feel gooder” talk,

  and they eat shit….or whatever else pours out of
the MSMs.

Report this
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By Night-Gaunt, August 26, 2010 at 5:08 pm Link to this comment

By ofersince72, August 26 at 2:22 am Link to this comment

Ralph,

  The best thing we could do to apologize to the rest
of the world for our actions is to RE-INVENT ourselves as a nation.  Just become what we say are, that is all we need to do!

The reinvention has been going on since 1980 without interruption. Yes really. Change is coming but it won’t be for our benefit—-the oligarchs of our country will reap both lives, money and ultimate power in their new Holy Dominion. One they intended to spread over all the earth. Both aggressive Capitalism mixed with their peculiar version of Christianity (much like the Crusader/Inquisition) in order to “prepare” the earth for JHVH’s return. (It won’t come unless they do, Pre-Millenialism, so no ‘rapture.’)  They will play for keeps, they have so much invested in overthrowing the New Order (the foundations of the USA) to return to the old style of dictatorial governance. They are so deeply entrenched and intertwined to be easily uprooted.

How would you take them on oh loquacious one? aka ofersince72? Yes ardee this one just can’t help but post ridiculous numbers of posts instead of consolidating them. I suggest a mental tick not unlike found in those where repetition is important to feel comfortable. Please understand him.

Report this

By ardee, August 26, 2010 at 2:52 pm Link to this comment

What does one think of a poster who posts fifteen in a row, some mere minutes apart from the previous one, and all in a thread moribund and disused?

Report this

By ofersince72, August 26, 2010 at 2:35 pm Link to this comment

I look at the articles that they are putting on
Truth Dig, and the depressing headlines on Democracy Now
and really get sick, who wouldn’t?

  We could have a peaceful revolution by the 2012 elections.  We have a journalist or two on our side.
Just the right strike at the right time and refusing
to vote for either party in both elections. The messege
we would send by doing this, would go a long way into the
RE-INVENTING OF AMERICA.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 26, 2010 at 2:26 pm Link to this comment

screw the MSMs and these progressive journalists on
these sites.  Just start using their sites for communication of some sort.
In other words,  lets use this old motto…..........

E I T H E R   L E A D,  F O L L O W,  O R   G E T T H E

  H E L L   O U T   O F   W A Y !!!  !!!  !!!  !!!  !!!

Report this

By ofersince72, August 26, 2010 at 1:44 pm Link to this comment

Why wait, and what do we have to lose????

In these mid-term November eletions coming up, anyone who
is on the ballot as a Democrat or Republican doesn’t
deserve to be running our country. As a matter of fact,
they will be bad for our country.. and we are already there.  So, for Senate

Write on your ballot, the very best person in your state
that you believe would make the very best U.S. Senator.

For House of Representatives..
Write on your ballot, the very best person in your district that you believe would make the very best
representative to your district.

And for president
write on your ballot , your conscience.

Who cares who takes control.  Our lawmakers will get
a clear messege of what we just sent them.
We need to get started immediatly on an
economic employment program going to employ….and
change the culture of a military economic employment
system.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 26, 2010 at 1:33 pm Link to this comment

Don’t let these progressive websites treat you like
children or sheeple.  That is what they are attempting
to do! ! !

  There are so many bright minds on Truth Dig.
Why waste it talking about things that you have no control
over.  Get a grip on what can be changed that is meaningful.
Solutions,  not debate of mosques, or stem cell (hell, we
already lost health care so that can wait), immigration,
it is real sad and little we can do other than refuse to
participate in a zenophobic debate.
  What we can do on a national scale, is trash both these
parties.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 26, 2010 at 1:26 pm Link to this comment

Hey Ralph Nader,

    They are letting the media and the journalists keep
them in the same mode that they always were while the
nasty powers that be swindled and stole their rights over
the last forty years.

  Little solutions and a whole lot of name calling, and
expecting that the lawmakers can fix America all by itself
Hell, that can’t happen even if we had honest lawmakers.

  Anyway, bringing economic justice to the U.S. and
Mexico is going to be a task…..but a fun task, with
similes on millions and millions of citizens faces that
we are finally , instead of mosquedebating, are really
moving forward.  HOW SWEET IT IS ! ! ! ! ! and so easy…
and everyone wants to let the MEDIA MSM PIGS control their
thinking for them.  Shut them fuckers off!! ! !  !! !! !!

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By ofersince72, August 26, 2010 at 1:16 pm Link to this comment

Ralph,

    Just as soon as hypothetical me, gets the troops
back from Iraq & Pakistan,  we need to amend the fence
with our Southern Neighbor that we have been pissing on
for so many years.  Fisrt of all, not to deny a massive
drug problem, mostly from within our own country) we are
going to label the social unrest in Mexico for what it
really is, not come up with some convienient mis-label for
ulterior motive as Us against the Drug Cartels.
  All of our overseas bases , until we get this job done
can start to stand down and await orders, it will be a
long process demiliterizing around the world as we create
an employment system that provides economy and ecology.

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By ofersince72, August 26, 2010 at 11:29 am Link to this comment

The ones out there that are proclaiming that

R A L P H   N A D E R has an inflated ego are really

saying this out of complete ingnorance, jealousy, and
with ulterior motive;  and have little knowledge of the
type of person Nader is.

However, he is most certainly an American ICON that should
be treasured and remembered in our history books.  He ranks among the likes of Eugene Debs, W.J. Bryon, Bob
LaFollet, and in present day, a much bigger positive
influence on american policy than CHOMSKY ever has been.

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By ofersince72, August 26, 2010 at 12:28 am Link to this comment

R A L P H   N A D E R     HAS DONE MORE FOR

A M E R I C A   THAN ANY

P R E S I D E N T O F T H E U N I T E D S T A T E S

EVER HAS…...............................................
AS A MATTER OF FACT , MORE
THAN JUST ABOUT ANYONE IN OUR LIFETIME
HAS DONE FOR THE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

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By ofersince72, August 25, 2010 at 11:00 pm Link to this comment

And Ralph,  that S U P R E M E   C O U R T

no problem ! ! ! ! !

I would make such a mockery out of them on a daily basis , they would be pulling their hair out and handing in resignations.  Pick em apart, no problem…they wouldn’t be the nine secret ones anymore.  That court
still belongs to us no matter who they put on it.
I bet, if worse came to worse, we could garnish enough public support for an amendement on them….a special ammendment,  just for them.
  I have seen a couple good ideas on the airwaves that even keeps some private ownership.

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By ofersince72, August 25, 2010 at 10:22 pm Link to this comment

Ralph,

  The best thing we could do to apologize to the rest
of the world for our actions is to RE-INVENT ourselves
as a nation.  Just become what we say are, that is all we
need to do! ! ! !

  That would go a long way, and create economic stability
around the world. 

  Hell ,  we really could become a world leader some day
that the whole world looks up to. Not any time soon though

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By ofersince72, August 25, 2010 at 10:16 pm Link to this comment

Exuse me Cris

I meant Hedges,  lord forbid.

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By ofersince72, August 25, 2010 at 10:08 pm Link to this comment

Hey Ralph,

  You’re probably not going to run in 2012 are you?

I hope you retire, if you know how. If not, I will probably be writing down your name again.
I don’t belive you or anybody could get us out of the
mess this country is in right now.  It would sure take a
lot of co-operation and sacrifice by everyone.  If I was
elected Ralph, as Commander In Chief, I would recall every
troop immediatly from all combat zones AND apologize.
I would disarm the airplanes that are there, make them
no longer of military use, and let them have them, same
with the SUVs and Jeeps and duece and halfs.
  The next step would be really tricky…..You know that
novel your wrote?  I am glad you made that fiction.  You
had to have some tongue in cheek when you wrote that, those greedy bastards are looking to get richer, surly not
share the wealth that the public has bestowed on them.
Lets not forget the Sports owners and players,  I wouldn’t
expect one, without the other to throw money that they
earned from the public back at the public.  And all those
statium deals from the seventies thru the ninties, guess
what I would do?  They sure wouldn’t be named after an
insurance company when I got thru.
MY First would be…THE RALPH NADER MEMEMORIAL SPORTS ARENA.  Right after you Ralph,,,and I would have
H A R R Y   B E L A F O N T E.  sing the national anthem
at the first ball game.  Then he would get the next one
named after him.
  Anyway,  we might have to show the boys you spoke of in
that book a little of our hardball.  They can’t us.
They Can’t BEAT US ,Ralph.  Because there is going to be
much unemployment initially and we don’t want all those
young men coming back idle,  they need us, badly, and
we need those young men and woman too.  That means we need
donations of housing..Double ups, Rooming houses, just
a lot of sacrifice,  which you know much of.
  We need a whole bunch of your advisors for the next
step….....that is where the likes of Naomi k. come in
and Michelle Alexander, Shirely Sharrod Glen Greenwald
Cris Hitchens, there are many , many , good minds in the
United States of America…...Lets start using them! ! ! !

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By ofersince72, August 11, 2010 at 7:15 pm Link to this comment

Hey Ralph,

  They seem to really get excited over meaningless
awards though.  Whats with that???

  I guess that is why so many Democrats show up at the
Oscars..
  Just throw a Pulitzer, Nobel, or a Webby at them,
they go beserk.  They gush all over each other.

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By ofersince72, August 11, 2010 at 6:59 pm Link to this comment

Hey Ralph,

  I sure don’t blame you and Cynthia for bolting
the Democrat Party.  I mean the lawmakers and their
supporters are so full of hogwash,  I imagine it is hard
to stand to be in the same room with them.  No wonder our
nation is so screwed.

  And if a reasoning voice comes along, like yours or
somebody elses, wow,  do they know how to divert. Their
deceptive, duplistic ,journalists toooo.! ! ! !
They will find a reason to argue amonst themselves just
to keep fresh ideas away.  They love their muggy smell
and don’t give a damn about anyone but themselves.
  This new Austerity that you tried to keep us from
getting into will be rightfully deserved,  they are really
nieve though, they for some reason under God’s green earth
believe they will be exepmt..  Jokes on them isn’t it Ralph ! ! !

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By ofersince72, August 11, 2010 at 10:36 am Link to this comment

Hey Ralph,

I don’t think most Americans get it yet.  But now it is
more of a stubborn thing,  not wanting to admit they made
a mistake the last fifteen years (well, bunch more than
that, but have to draw the line somewhere) so they keep
beating their head against the wall, and the wall keeps
hitting them back with the TRUTH.  It is making them even
more stubborn and determined to prove an UNTRUTH, which
we know is impossible.
  Hope you are well,  has Public Citizen and the Green
Party come up with a 2012 candidate yet ? ?
We need to know soon even though , elections are really
meaningless anymore,  but still,  lets screw um up
anyway….look what they have done to us !! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
We will need all the time we can get to raise $$$$$$$$$$$$
enough to screw with those Dems and Pubs…
YOURS ALWAYS AND TRUELY <><>**O F E R S I N C E 7 2**<><>

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By bpawk, July 17, 2010 at 11:45 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

As a Canadian where there’s not a lot to complain about my government compared to the US, I’ve never figured out why with all the bailouts, lack of health care etc that Americans aren’t taking to the streets - there’s no ‘I’m as mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore” attitude - the Americans, for all their bravado, are strangely quiet while their jobs go to cheap labour countries, their health care is for the rich and the bailouts helped the rich and Wall Street. How many people have to lose their jobs, homes and dignity before people stand up together to complain loudly so the world will hear!

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By ofersince72, June 15, 2010 at 12:45 pm Link to this comment

Here you go,

The only meaningful thread that Hedges has had for
about six months
He sure didn’t keep this train of thought.

Nader was right in the eighties
Nader was right in the ninties
He was right in 2000
He was right in 2004
and he is still right today, and towers above every
politician and pundit inside the beltway.

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By Inherit The Wind, March 17, 2010 at 5:50 pm Link to this comment

Ardee:

I never said I never insulted anyone.  I merely say I never do when it isn’t 100% deserved.  And your pal, E-L, with her irrational emotionalism, and her pompous condescension continually BEGS to be called to the carpet for her nonsense.

Go get drunk and lighten up! Or go get sober and lighten up!

I’m glad YOU never call anyone names—after all “Jackass” is a description, not an insult, right?

You react to TRUE adversary just like your hero, Nader, with insults, pontification and, dare I say it? Pouting.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, March 16, 2010 at 9:00 am Link to this comment

As I see it!

It should be known that Shenonymous offers wisdom and and a light of reason on these blogs; she seems almost as a prodigy of sorts. Many of her posts offer insight and many times from research (something I defer to others)  way above and beyond the normal moronic grabbed from the arse comments and insults usually seen on these blogs. 

Compared to my sometimes cryptic bantering s, She’s postings may seem a bit long,  but most always include tidbits or morsels of knowledge. It is with grave, disappointment but not surprise, to see what appears a constant barrage of contentious insulting attacks towards her person.  Seldom ever have I seen anything of substance in reply to her comments. Even in trading insults with others, she portrays wisdom to the respectful distanced observer.  What I always see is a cast of village idiots who cannot learn from their own experiences.

I have not commented on this before, for plucking wisdom is a time consuming job and a personal thing, unlike some posters who constantly love to XOXO Hediges who mostly for me always offers regurgitated pablum. 

Let me take the liberty to say thank you to Shenonymous! Thank you,  for I find most of your posts enlightening and have learned much as I hope others have also.

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By elisalouisa, March 16, 2010 at 7:27 am Link to this comment

ITW sums it up well as his own attorney.

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By ardee, March 16, 2010 at 4:42 am Link to this comment

But maybe you’ve been hanging around with the addle-brained E-L too long.

See, ITW, you are a jackass.

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By ardee, March 16, 2010 at 4:40 am Link to this comment

elisalouisa, March 15 at 10:02 am #

You waste your time I fear. ITW honestly believes the tripe he spews about not insulting folks.

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By Inherit The Wind, March 15, 2010 at 5:41 pm Link to this comment

elisalouisa, March 15 at 10:02 am #

I repeat ITW, posters can disagree with civility and make an effort to refrain from name calling.  That is my stand, not that one must agree with my views. If your style is otherwise what can I say. When Folktruther and I disagreed there was no name calling and he was most gracious, I can only go by that. Apparently you confuse the word civility with accord.  My position was in need of further
clarification thus my response.

*************************************************

I’m sorry. I cannot deal with total cognitive dissonance.  I am perfectly capable of carrying on civil discourse until people start lying about me or calling me names, or simply insisting that THEIR position is “The Truth” despite them being totally unable to support it.

I’m not sure how much you actually disagreed with FT.  Maybe you liked Nader because he’s so far out of the ballpark and F/t didn’t like because he wasn’t far enough out.

In any case, it comes down to a simple fact: I give as good as I get and I won’t back down from that position.

Present me with unchallengeable facts that contradict my position and you’ll see me change my assessment in a heart-beat.  Try to do it by brow-beating, name-calling and appeals to emotion and you’ll get nowhere.

But please start with recognizing that all those “nice” people have called me more names more times than you can imagine.

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By Leefeller, March 15, 2010 at 9:10 am Link to this comment

If I did not read something, of course it did not exist. Common sense could never dictate otherwise.  Such seems the inner and outer workings of belly buttons and the minds of Imbeciles. It seems on occasion, I have seen the likes of an imbecile or two!

Name calling should never be used, except as a last resort. 

Stupidity must be a virtue, for I seem constantly surrounded by the virtuous!

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By elisalouisa, March 15, 2010 at 7:02 am Link to this comment

I repeat ITW, posters can disagree with civility and make an effort to refrain from name calling.  That is my stand, not that one must agree with my views. If your style is otherwise what can I say. When Folktruther and I disagreed there was no name calling and he was most gracious, I can only go by that. Apparently you confuse the word civility with accord.  My position was in need of further
clarification thus my response.

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By Inherit The Wind, March 15, 2010 at 3:58 am Link to this comment

I have never read any post where the writer referred to you a Zionistfascist but that is neither here nor there in this discussion.Most want to exchange ideas with civility and not have the discussion reduced to name calling or put downs whatever the subject matter is.
This is my last post on this thread.

**********************************************

Then clearly early-onset Alzheimers has set in! Every time I challenged Robert’s “borrowing” of others’ ideas with none of his own he responded with a torrent of name-calling—including zionistfascist.  Folktruther consistently and relentlessly made up flat-out lies about what I posted that directly contradicted what I ACTUALLY posted.  He did it repeatedly, and continuously, deliberately misrepresenting my posts. As for PatrickHenry, his hatred of Jews and all things Jewish extends far beyond simply the radical policies of the Right in Israel.  His posts about how most Jews in America are traitors for supporting the continued existence of Israel, for being behind all the financial collapse, and for “controlling” our nation are no different than one expects from the Aryan Brotherhood.

Shall I go on?  But, of course, YOU don’t remember any of THOSE posts!  “I don’t remember anyone calling you a zionistfascist.” she whines. Well, lady, “The Contingent” has NEVER engaged in “civilized discourse” no matter how many times I and others have tried.  I gave up a couple of years ago.

Of course YOU think they are just fine—you agree with everything they post, so why wouldn’t you?

If this is your last work on the subject, well, I’m fine with that.  Nobody is holding a gun to your head forcing you to type your whiny, condescending childish posts, just like nobody’s holding a gun to my head either.

I said it before: If you want to post where everyone agrees with you, try a different forum.

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By elisalouisa, March 14, 2010 at 10:03 pm Link to this comment

Post from Nader’s Utopia: The World According to Ralph.
.By Inherit The Wind, January 4 at 10:39 pm #
“The so-called ‘progressives’ have taken a view that ANYONE supporting Israel’s existence is a dirty rotten Zionistfascist and that EVERYBODY should realize that the Arab and Moslem world is full of sweet, maligned misunderstood gentle souls.  Just read the missives of “The Contingent”—Robert, PatrickHenry, Ed
Harges, Thonggirl, and, my bud, Folktruther”

You are the one doing the name calling. The above words are an embarrassment when you go back and read the posts of these fine people. I have never read any post where the writer referred to you a Zionistfascist but that is neither here nor there in this discussion.Most want to exchange ideas with civility and not have the discussion reduced to name calling or put downs whatever the subject matter is. 
This is my last post on this thread.

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By Inherit The Wind, March 14, 2010 at 6:17 pm Link to this comment

elisalouisa, March 14 at 8:33 pm #

How did it come to this?  Because I have sided with you Ardee on many issues Shrew has taken to strike below the belt as to what the reason might be. Obviously, her clouded mind does not allow for true vision in quite a few areas. As for ITW, his verbal abuse has resulted in more than one departure. Where is the “Contingent?” This forum is not a place for exchange of thought at least with some for you shall be eaten alive unless you debase yourself to their level. In fact this was my concern as to my posts in the last day or two. You are one of the posters, along with Sodium, that I find truth as part of who you are. Sodium finds reading more enjoyable than verbal exchange of thought on this forum. Quite understandable.

************************************************

Look, if you want to “exchange ideas” only with people who agree with you, then you are in the WRONG PLACE!

As for “The Contingent”, many are still well and posting, if only you bothered to look.  As for abuse: I have been called EVERY name in the book, labeled “Zionist” “Fascist” “Nazi” “Bigot”, etc, etc. and I am STILL HERE!  I simply hand out as good as I get.  But I reserve a SPECIAL poison-pen for those who say “Don’t bother to read his posts or think about his ideas. He’s a Zionist.” As if labeling me releases you of all responsibility to consider what I’m saying and dismiss it out of hand—WITHOUT evaluating the underlying facts or logic.  Like a bunch of little girls in a clique saying “Oh, don’t talk to her—she doesn’t wear clothes that are cool!”

I live frustrated in a world that worships TEKTAT.
Things Everybody Knows That Aren’t True.  YOU live in that world.  You assume things because people you agree with assure you they are so and cannot handle having your basic assumptions challenged…“But, but, but EVERYBODY knows this!”

I’m currently disappointed in Ardee, hopefully only in this thread.

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By Inherit The Wind, March 14, 2010 at 6:06 pm Link to this comment

ardee, March 14 at 10:17 pm #

Obviously, my “fatal flaw” is that I don’t have any more faith in YOUR “invisible God” than I have in John Ellis’s.

***************

My last attempt to reach out to you in your childish and self imposed darkness.

Your problem, and that of your distaff side, the shrewish one, is that you are so enamored of your own point of view that you can see no other.

I have read your venomous and sarcastic responses to those with whom your disagree multiple times, as I have read the incredibly self involved rantings of that broom riding witch, your favorite shrew, who is childish enough to post, in the same message, a castigation of rudeness while being, at the same time and with no apparent notice of her dichotomous behavior, incredibly rude . One such post comes to mind wherein she, in a twelve or thirteen paragraph effort, insulted several posters here , one to each paragraph.

I dwell on this basically inconsequential wretch only to state unequivocally, that I find you both quite similar. So apparently self involved and in love with your own little world view that you cannot possibly grant any respect or consideration to that of others.

I have reached out to you only because I thought I saw glimpses of a worthwhile human in there somewhere, perhaps I was wrong. I spend more time elsewhere now, in a forum that is rather self policing , and one in which Shrew, and you, would not be tolerated. While I cannot guarantee total abstinence here, I do enjoy the efforts of several here, I will no longer concern myself with your lack of growth or maturity. Bye now, sad for your weakness.
****************************************************

You are not listening. I’ve read EVERYTHING before that was in your hyperlink. Many times over many years.  Nothing new there.  Got it?  NOTHING NEW! 

Why would I change my assessment and views because of yet another rehash of the SOS—Same Old S…Stuff, with the same old flaws and mistakes?

You can preach and pontificate all you like about how closed-minded I am and how I refuse to “learn” (translation: accept your opinions as gospel) but you can’t get around that simple road-block.  I’ve seen it all before, reviewed it, assessed it and formed conclusions. 

Unless you introduce new evidence / premises, I have no basis on which to change my conclusions other than your childish desire that I do so.

This absurd infantile tantrum of “No! No! No! You MUST see it my way or you are a stupid poopie-head” is depressing.  I thought you had more sense than that.  But maybe you’ve been hanging around with the addle-brained E-L too long.

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By Shenonymous, March 14, 2010 at 5:58 pm Link to this comment

Creating fictional ‘sides’ is the way of the small of mind.  ‘Taking’ sides
are perceived when one is unable to see for oneself.  There are no
‘sides.’  There is only the truth and it is brutal at times and those who
cannot bear it shrink and hide.  When one starts to call names one
must be prepared to receive retaliation, and be prepared to receive
worse than given.  It can be surprising just how worse it can be.  This
is not a gentlemanly game when name calling enters into the conflict. 
Wakening a beast is the consequence of being a smart mouth and name
caller.  Name-calling is the way of the coward.  Hiding oneself in the
shadow of others is also cowardly.  ITW did not begin the name calling
but he certainly ended it.  Nor did I start it.  Call me shrew if you must,
as you grow little for it, but know this that ardee is the one with the
ugly mouth and you follow in his train, elisalouisa.

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By elisalouisa, March 14, 2010 at 5:33 pm Link to this comment

How did it come to this?  Because I have sided with you Ardee on many issues Shrew has taken to strike below the belt as to what the reason might be. Obviously, her clouded mind does not allow for true vision in quite a few areas. As for ITW, his verbal abuse has resulted in more than one departure. Where is the “Contingent?”  This forum is not a place for exchange of thought at least with some for you shall be eaten alive unless you debase yourself to their level. In fact this was my concern as to my posts in the last day or two. You are one of the posters, along with Sodium, that I find truth as part of who you are. Sodium finds reading more enjoyable than verbal exchange of thought on this forum. Quite understandable.

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By Shenonymous, March 14, 2010 at 5:09 pm Link to this comment

IT is so unimportant to anyone’s life what the opinion is of one who
can’t even tie his verbal shoes and pretends to be an adult, who cannot
hold a ‘decent’ conversation but is extremely able to sling hateful
names.  It shows what he spent his childhood doing.  Who bloody cares
if he catches a glimpse of anything?  His views are faulty and quite
useless for further consideration.  His misplaced sadness is a ruse to
seek excuse for his utter immaturity and thank goodness he has
retreated to where all he will hear are yeasayers.  It is sort of a
masturbation of the mind kind of thing where self-satisfaction is
sought and self-satisfaction is got.  I earlier noted how there are those
who love to see their own reflection so off he goes to look in the
mirror.  The question is:  did he invite elisalouisa as company?  lol I
must have struck a sensitive nerve.  Thus sayeth the Shrew.

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By ardee, March 14, 2010 at 4:17 pm Link to this comment

Obviously, my “fatal flaw” is that I don’t have any more faith in YOUR “invisible God” than I have in John Ellis’s.

***************

My last attempt to reach out to you in your childish and self imposed darkness.

Your problem, and that of your distaff side, the shrewish one, is that you are so enamored of your own point of view that you can see no other.

I have read your venomous and sarcastic responses to those with whom your disagree multiple times, as I have read the incredibly self involved rantings of that broom riding witch, your favorite shrew, who is childish enough to post, in the same message, a castigation of rudeness while being, at the same time and with no apparent notice of her dichotomous behavior, incredibly rude . One such post comes to mind wherein she, in a twelve or thirteen paragraph effort, insulted several posters here , one to each paragraph.

I dwell on this basically inconsequential wretch only to state unequivocally, that I find you both quite similar. So apparently self involved and in love with your own little world view that you cannot possibly grant any respect or consideration to that of others.

I have reached out to you only because I thought I saw glimpses of a worthwhile human in there somewhere, perhaps I was wrong. I spend more time elsewhere now, in a forum that is rather self policing , and one in which Shrew, and you, would not be tolerated. While I cannot guarantee total abstinence here, I do enjoy the efforts of several here, I will no longer concern myself with your lack of growth or maturity. Bye now, sad for your weakness.

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By Leefeller, March 14, 2010 at 8:39 am Link to this comment

elisalouisa and company,

My Humble apologies;

Since the Oscars just the other night, I was reminded of having received, elisalouisa’s prestigious “Chicken Little Award of the year Award” last Year. Not wanting to let this prestigious award slip from my ego or from my dying hands. After watching all the beautiful people in all their glory during the Oscars prompted me to write this, so please accept my humble apologies, for my recent attendance at the wake for my Albatross at which the Tequila flowed like Tea Bags during a Palin rally. So now that I am done with crying in my Tequila

I have taken the liberty and tightened up my humble post for elisalouisa, in the name of posteriors, and after all we are taking about something many seem to ignore; comprehension! 


Comprehension, as a quality to understand, usually requires some degree or at least an ability to utilize only one part of the body called the brain. And it may even be helpful to include the capability to read and write, which usually includes the physical use of fingers and possibility eyes? Sometimes they may work together,  many other times apparently not.

Anticipation sometimes provides grave disappointments, disappointments for instance, like my feelers being dashed upon the rocks of despair,  again and again I find myself at a loss as I am blindsided with such rapier wit as induced by fellow posters;  I find myself at a loss, seemingly like watching the overwhelming intelligence emanating from a Republican convention.

My eternal despair, this constant curse of an extremely large-footed albatross tied around me neck. and this hounding almost like being stomped into the ground by the likes of elisalouisa. As she preforms with such profound ease, all the while at the same time singing the catchy tune called the Hokey Poky. Most frightening is, these overwhelming influences provide pause and induce me to wonder, should I even continue with the obvious unappreciated task before me,..... informing the ignorant of their proclivities towards stupidity.

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By Shenonymous, March 14, 2010 at 7:57 am Link to this comment

Shrew here:  If Bush wasn’t the root of all political evil, he certainly was
the conductor of it, and with a glint of dark, malevolent intention, and
the Republican Party is the foul-smelling self-serving control panel at
the top.  The root, then, has to be the greedy ideology that always puts
self before society and watered by opportunistic bile.  What is so odd, it
is that is so unChristian.  How does that work? 

But foul smelling isn’t restricted to Republicans.  Mush-minded Leftists
have their own cast of noxious gas that comes out of their minds such
as the likes of the lovers? ardee and elisalouisa.  And what is so
odd about that coupling is how they can stand each other?  Oh, right,
one loves one’s own reflection.  Hmmmmm.  Intaarressting. 

There is something just as missing in Kucinich just as there is in Nader.
zulchzulu on Democratic Underground has a perspective that seems to
fit perfectly:  “Kucinich is a grandstander [sort of just like Nader], has
smart ideas but cannot get anything accomplished in Congress, unable
to rally even more than a handful of comrades for his proposed
legislation, hard to work with, sees failure as some kind of marketable
success to have contributions to pad his wallet (not much different
though than any other politician), said to be like a conman yelling in a
subway that you need to buy your ticket from him just to get on the
train, but after buying in you get jackshit in return.”  You have to
admit, Dennis does not have a very good track record.

Blaming other congressmen for short-sightedness tells the tale of The
Fox and the Grapes:

“ONE hot summer’s day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he
came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been
trained over a lofty branch. “Just the things to quench my thirst,” quoth
he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just
missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he
jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after
the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with
his nose in the air, saying: “I am sure they are sour….”
The message
of that story:  IT IS EASY TO DESPISE WHAT YOU CANNOT GET… or in
elisalousia’s case IT IS EASY TO DESPISE WHAT YOU CANNOT BE…MORE
INTELLIGENT THAN A FENCE POST!

Dennis doesn’t really deserve to be primaried because long range it
would be a waste of time.  He represents his district to their
satisfaction and that is all.  Get a grip.

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By Inherit The Wind, March 14, 2010 at 7:30 am Link to this comment

ardee, March 14 at 9:59 am #

Inherit The Wind, March 13 at 11:05 am #

Ardee,

So I read your incredibly long, boring, article.
*********************

and thus you display, in a nutshell, your fatal flaw.One cannot learn until one removes ones head from ones posterior. Try it,ITW, you might enjoy the new experiences and ideas that will come flooding to your perception.

I must note that you are, in your own way, exactly like Shrewnonymous in that regard.
***********************************************

There’s nothing NEW in your article, Ardee. That’s the point.  Comments about my head being up my ass because I can read and interpret and think your learning lesson is crap prove nothing.  It’s about as meaningful as John Ellis telling me to read a chapter of the NT.

I’ve been exposed to the Socialist POV since I was knee-high to a grass-hopper. I know the arguments inside and out.  I rejected them as false and faulty many years ago.

Obviously, my “fatal flaw” is that I don’t have any more faith in YOUR “invisible God” than I have in John Ellis’s.

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By elisalouisa, March 14, 2010 at 7:27 am Link to this comment

How about long, boring efforts at humor? Such as the Chimp and the Shrew?

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By ardee, March 14, 2010 at 6:59 am Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind, March 13 at 11:05 am #

Ardee,

So I read your incredibly long, boring, article.
*********************

and thus you display, in a nutshell, your fatal flaw.One cannot learn until one removes ones head from ones posterior. Try it,ITW, you might enjoy the new experiences and ideas that will come flooding to your perception.

I must note that you are, in your own way, exactly like Shrewnonymous in that regard.

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By ofersince72, March 13, 2010 at 2:30 pm Link to this comment

Kucinach had his day in court…......war won 356 to 65
Maybe now everyone will quit believing that the Bush
Admin. was the root of all evils.
I heard that word pipeline again…
The Caspian Sea, I have read , holds the worlds largest
untapped petro and natural gas.
The easiest way to get it out is down through Iran…..
can’t do that without a war…
pipe it accross Afgan…

356 believe that is a good idea at all human costs.
of the 65 that voted for the Kucinach bill… half of
them would have voted the other way if their vote would
have made a difference,  they scored political points
with their constituents.

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By Leefeller, March 13, 2010 at 11:22 am Link to this comment

Comprehension as a quality to understand, usually requires some degree or at lest an ability to utilize only one part of the body called the brain.  And it may even be helpful to include the capability to read and write, which usually includes the physical use of fingers and possibility eyes?  Sometimes they may work together many other times apparently not. 

Anticipations sometimes provides grave disappointments, disappointments for instance, like my feelers being dashed upon the rocks of despair, again and again I find myself at a loss as I am blindsided with such rapier wit as induced by fellow posters, I find myself at a loss, seemingly like watching the overwhelming intelligence emanating from a Republican convention. 

My eternal despair, this constant curse of an extremely large footed albatross tied around me neck. and this hounding almost like being stomped into the ground by the likes of elisalouisa , she preforms with such profound ease all the while at the same time singing the catchy tune called the Hokey Poky Most frightening is these overwhelming influences provide pause and induce me to wonder, should I even continue with the obvious unappreciated task before me,..... informing the ignorant of their proclivities towards stupidity.

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By Shenonymous, March 13, 2010 at 10:38 am Link to this comment

For your amusement, if you have a sense of humor that is.

Chimps are the closest simian relative to the human animal.  I am from
the orangutang race, not the chimps.  My fellow O’tangs are relaxed
warmhearted relations, you know, like most red-heads.  New research
from the Max Planck Institute of Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig
shows that, unlike humans, chimpanzees do not show a willingness to
make fair offers and reject unfair ones. Much like my critics on
Truthdig. The research used a modification of one of the most widely
used and accepted economic tools, the ultimatum game.

In the ultimatum game, one person, a Proposer, is given a commodity
(money, food, etc.) by an experimenter. That Proposer then divides the
“mana from heaven” with a second person, a Responder. The Responder
is not powerless - if he/she accepts the division, both people take
home the offered amounts. But if he rejects it, both get nothing.  Sort
of like the Prisoner’s Dilemma game.

The fear of having an unfair offer rejected causes the Proposer to make
a fair offer. Fear is usually the tactic of the Ultra-Right, but is not
unknown by the Ultra-Left. People typically make offers of close to 50%,
anything less is likely to be rejected. Sensitivity to unfair offers and a
willingness to pay a cost to punish someone contradicts economic
models of pure self-interest, and they have been claimed to be unique
to humans.

In a study reported in Science on October 5th, researchers confronted
our closest living relatives, chimpanzees, to a simplified version of the
ultimatum game. A Proposer would propose an offer of raisins to a
Responder by partially pulling out a tray of raisins as far as he could.  If
the Responder accepted the division of raisins, he would pull the tray
the rest of the way and the two would be able eat. However, if the
Responder did not like what he saw, he would not pull the tray and
neither of them would get anything to eat.

In each version of this mini-ultimatum game, the Proposer could pull
one tray with 8 raisins for himself and 2 for the other (an unfair split
that humans routinely reject).

The Proposer, who made the first choice, sat to the Responder’s right.
The apparatus, which had two sliding trays connected by a single rope,
was outside of the cages. By first sliding a Plexiglas panel to access one
rope end and by then pulling it, the Proposer drew one of the baited
trays halfway toward the two subjects. The Responder can then pull an
attached rod, that is put within reach, to bring a proposed food tray to
the cage mesh so that both subjects can eat from their respective food
dishes.

However, the Proposer would have a choice. In one game, he could
choose between this unfair offer and a fair one (5 raisins each). In
another, he could choose a hyper-fair option (2 for himself and 8 for
the Responder). In a third, he had no choice (the second tray also had 8
for himself and 2 for the other). In the fourth game, the Proposer’s
other choice was hyper-unfair (10 for himself, 0 for the Responder).

Unlike humans faced with these games, chimpanzee Responders (like
over-the-edge Leftists, oh and even more like over-the-edge Rightists,
both groups show little difference in unfairness) accepted any nonzero
offer, whether it was unfair or not. The only offer that was reliably
rejected by Responder was the 10/0 option (where Proposer gets all
and Responder gets nothing). The researchers conclude that
chimpanzees do not show a willingness to make fair offers and reject
unfair ones. In this way, they behave like selfish economists rather than
as social reciprocators.  An economist does not necessarily deal with
money.  The term economist may also be applied to dealers in any
thing of a commodity nature, i.e., morsels of ideology, dried raisins,
wampum, or… soupy sentimentality.  It is further suggested that
Leftists and Rightist try to be more like humans

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By Shenonymous, March 13, 2010 at 9:36 am Link to this comment

Humor is in the ear of the beholder.  Those with too much hubristic ear
wax will not hear much of anything except their own muffled voice and
those who sound like themselves, such as are you elisalouisa and
others of the weak-minded but over the edge militant Leftist cadre. 
You and they should be careful that none of that ear wax gets in the
eyes lest it adds to an already blind-as-bats vision of reality.

If you are going to refer to Jon Stewart, you might take the time to
spell his name right, even if you are quoting someone else, it is lame
not to.

Fair play is reciprocal.  What is dished out is given back by this Ms.
Uppity and that should be known from all my years on this website. 
Your brand of verbal thuggery does not browbeat me in the least. 
Furthermore, your limited perception and apparently pathological need
to be loved by someone keeps you from comprehension of what fair
play really is.  Perhaps you lack the capacity for rational thought or
inference?  Do you think ardee needs your feeble opinionated support
and cannot handle his own abusive language?  You do try to emulate
him don’t you?  lol Well you might be right, but you might see if he
wants your dried up raisins of love or snuggling up?  You might quit
while you are ahead.  Tu potrei essere mentalmente il più sano se tu
tenuto tuo Pinocchio naso eliminato di altro gente commenti. 

Leefeller’s humor is a treasure, particularly on this website that is full
people full of crap, such as yourself elisalouisa, who have incontinence
of the mind, and who cannot make comment of any merit.  There are
Depends for the mind, you might check them out for your own use.  Of
course, Leefeller’s humor is way out of your artless range of cognition.

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By elisalouisa, March 13, 2010 at 8:54 am Link to this comment

By WriterOnTheStorm, March 2 at 4:53 pm #
Just as the “discerning customer” imagines a world of difference between ?
Mercedes and BMW, so does the “responsible voter” imagine important ?
distinctions between the republicans and the democrats. But to outliers like me,
?and Chris Hedges apparently, brand blue and brand red are far more alike than ?
different. To my way of thinking, the biggest difference between Bush and ?
Gore? Bush made for better material from John Stewart and Bill Maher. This is ?
why I can’t put much stock in the argument heard over and over (and in ?
increasingly whiney tones) that Nader “is the reason we got eight years of ?
Bush”.
**********
Posters outdo themselves trying to prove their
reasoning with facts whether recently gathered on the Internet or known for some time. For one point there is always a counterpoint that favors the view of the most current poster. Ardee plays fair which seals his fate as he deals with ITW and She.
************
************
By Shenonymous, March 3 at 7:05 pm # Yes, the Italian thing is a bit quirky and
is limited to only ?a few initiates, but it was fun while it lasted and it inserted a
gram of humor in ?an otherwise humorless grim group of Leftist sourpusses.  I
sure would not ?want the world to be inherited by Them!  How dreary. 
********
As to attempts at humor, we always have Leefeller and his results are seen in She’s assessment: “humorless grim group of Leftist sourpusses.” Writer on the Storm is correct.
Se volete la risata ascolti Jon Stuart ed it rapporto di Colbert
Il vostro tipo di umore non e divertente.

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By Leefeller, March 13, 2010 at 7:39 am Link to this comment

Now the new and better TD as the dust is settling, remands me sort of like watching the dust after 911.  Clearing means the ads are coming in bigger and clearer then ever before. Well, now I have no desire to watch TV or go to the movie theater for my advertising fix, at least not until the next super bowl.

Nader being green with envy prompts a picture, a vision like the ads on this page oh so clear! Why do I see full of him self Nader as a cartoon character, green and misunderstood like the Hulk?

Also Woe is me, Nader promoting himself as the abused stepsister who is turned into a pumpkin after the ball, seems even more amusing.

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By Inherit The Wind, March 13, 2010 at 7:05 am Link to this comment

Ardee,

So I read your incredibly long, boring, article.

It’s exactly the same puffed-up crap Socialists have been writing for 100 years.  I thought you knew better than to push such ho-hum typical “thinking” (if you can call it that) at me.  If you actually LOOK at it, he has NO ANSWERS other than get rid of Capitalism.  He has NO ANSWERS about how a Socialist society will actually function, provide food, clothing, shelter, education, freedom and fulfillment for people. It’s just not there.  It’s not a major scholarly achievement to be able to point out the serious and fundamental flaws of our current mis-labeld “Capitalist” system (and it’s not really “Capitalism” at all—which he misses)

Nor is there any REAL understanding of macroeconomic systems other than the usual faulty Marxist based nonsense.  It’s about as relevant and valid as Stalinist-era Soviet genetics is to current genetics.

The only economic or political science peer review that would let this article get through the “Straight Face” test are already Marxists and Socialists who already “know” the answers.

I stand by every word I said.

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By Shenonymous, March 13, 2010 at 5:59 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous’s worm only eats the mushy brains of the malcontents.  It
is suggested that real minds start thinking for themselves instead of
only blowing smelly hot hair out of their hind ends.  No one speaks
more clearly about the abuses and corruption of Corporate America
than Ralph Nader.  Nevetheless, in 2000 when he was at the zenith of
his energy, as a Green he attracted only 3% of the vote.  Why?  Village
Voice Levine gives one hint.  Nader, an arrogant one himself, only
attracts political vandals. Kind of marauders of affairs of state.  “He
used the Green Party only to get his revenge.”  His current attack on
Obama borders on public racism blended with his continued extreme
disdain for Democrats.  If he truly wanted to help American fight
corporate dominance, wouldn’t he offer ways for them, those ordinary
Americans, to do that.  No, he is more interested in his perception of
himself being in a ring of conflict with the big boys. 

Nader’s own nephew, Tarek Milleron, said it so clearly, “Nader ran so he
could hurt, wound, and punish the Democrats. His primary goal was not
raising issues, much less building the Green Party. He actively wanted
Gore to lose.”  Not only was Nader “a Green” he was green with
jealousy.  Justin Martin reveals in his book, Ralph Nader: Crusader,
Spoiler, Icon, exactly why Nader cut his own political throat.  Read it. 
In a Rolling Stone interview he reveals himself for exactly the kind of
carver of public servants he was: RS: “In 1996, you told the New York
Times, ‘If I really wanted to beat Clinton, I would get out, raise $3 or
$4 million, and maybe provide the margin for his defeat. That’s not the
purpose of this candidacy.’ Since you’re planning to raise $5 million and
run hard this year, does that mean you would not have a problem
providing the margin of defeat for Gore?” Nader’s reply: “I would not—
not at all.” His despising of Gore blinded his good judgment.  Gary
Sellers who created Nader’s Raiders for Gore in 2000 said Nader
(egotistically) hated Gore because Gore would not return his phone
calls.

Then in 2004 his candidacy was almost a burlesque because again of
his hatred for the Democrats (who always spurned him as a nasty
stepsister).

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By Shenonymous, March 13, 2010 at 5:57 am Link to this comment

Nader still doesn’t have, or rather, still does not provide a plan of what
he would do if he were ever a viable candidate.  He hardly has what
could be called a constituency.  A smart man, a very smart man, at
some things, he doesn’t recognize that he doesn’t have much of a
force at influencing those who might in his opinion need it.  He
influences only those who have his name tattooed in their truncated
brain.  A form of fanitis (a disease that afflicts mindless devotees of
public figures:  fan is a short term for fanatic, and a fanatic is a person
with extreme and uncritical enthusiasm for, in this case, a wannabe
politician).  Instead of understanding the concept of assimilation to
effect change, Nader from the beginning of his effort to enter American
politics as a real moving force, chose to marginalize himself with his
harping and unlikable style of polemic.  He comes off, except to his
“fans” as bitter and accusatory.  He never developed a luring style that
politicians need called adjusting to the conflict, reciprocality of
modifying demands, those things that go into negotiating differences. 
He pontificates and still does. 

Nader could have gained substantial influence within a Democratic
administration as a cabinet member, or in Congress.  Alan Grayson
could teach Nader a few things.  But his hubris kept and keeps him
from being able to participate in the “two” party system that represents
this country.  He causes an allergic reaction.  He seems to think he
doesn’t need the majority of America to be successful!  Like it or not,
that is the reality.  That is not to say he does not have excellent ideas
and sees the political vista for what it is.  We all know the Republicans
(aka Corporate America) only promise the worst for poor and working-
class people, for blacks, for most Americans. Not because people ought
not to be able to earn and keep what they earn as much as possible,
but because the poor and working class are exploited with inadequate
wages and taken to the cleaners by the business class.  But knowing
that is not enough.  To win elections, one must have some attraction
beyond ideas.  That is what will get support, financial support which in
this climate of politics is what is imperative, like it or not.  It doesn’t
matter how right he is about everything and anything, he simply is not
liked across America.  His intellect and manner only attracts a certain
cadre.  Nader’s sophistry often takes him into the world of distortion of
the records such as, and his fans often echo, that there is no
substantive difference between the Democrats and Republicans in order
to bolster his own image.  But that is because there is a fungus of envy
growing in their ears.

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By ardee, March 13, 2010 at 4:23 am Link to this comment

Leefeller, March 11 at 11:46 am

As a fellow Vista user I say, despair not, Windows 7 is riding to rescue us all….wink

Peetawonkus, March 11 at 10:11 am

Regarding my response to your statement:

I think Nader failed, not because of a lack of good ideas, but because his “base” was overwhelmingly college kids on the internet. And his “Party” crumbled as soon as he walked off the stage.

I reread my response and found it to be tempered and fair. Yes we agree in large part, but cannot expect to be in lockstep on all things. The “” surrounding the phrase, Nader’s Party, shows plainly that you did indeed understand that Nader was not a Green only using that party as it used him.

There are several factors involved in the failure of a brilliant candidate like Nader to attract large numbers of voters, as there are in the difficulties third parties encounter when building a base. Regardless of difficulties we need said indies and third parties far too much to stop trying.

By the by, I am neither angry at you or at my favorite foil, ITW. Now if you want to discuss the phonies and liars like GRYM, or the anonymous shrewish and far too lengthy retorts of the Permanent PMS who insults while claiming to never insult, well, lets not go there, shall we.

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By Night-Gaunt, March 11, 2010 at 10:01 am Link to this comment

Microsoft is very close to a monopoly and it shows. When you run 80%-90% of the market you are and you get lazy and less innovative and more imitative of your own works. They do not create they procreate and we see that the products drop in quality what they offer and in some cases the newer models work more poorly than the previous or even earliest model that was new!

A gov’t, just like a corporation is there to benefit the most, if not all the people they serve. If they don’t then they need to be remade or dissolved. Once our gov’t has stopped doing its evaluation and revoking of corporate charters we see bad results. It just doesn’t happen now and we see how bad it lets them become in gaining more power till they are at super-human status. It is already hard to tell when the corporations end and the gov’t begins.

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By Leefeller, March 11, 2010 at 7:46 am Link to this comment

Not sure if I would be announcing my wave lengths on this blog whether the same or not!

My computer has Vista on it and before it came out it was touted as the cats meow of computer operating systems, newer and better, more bells and whistles, in fact Vista would be so great it would do anything not seen before in computer land.  Well, my idea of newer and better, and do anything great is not Microsoft’s. So far I see little difference in Vista and XP, except my wallet is lighter and some of my software like my adult Hot Hilda Game does not work anymore.

Watching all the yelling and waving about this Socialism thing, it sounds mighty close to a bill of goods from Microsoft without the free trial.

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By Brad4d, March 11, 2010 at 7:43 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

How do activists prepare people for the idea that there is NO NORMAL to return to? Since old answers don’t work, how much will the unknown look like confusion? My job is creative perception, can you handle my perspective?
Bi-partisan is 2/too conflicted in debate to dialog on the unified need for representation. Including everyone was the democratic invitation to participate in larger government, so those who think less government is democracy need to be removed by their standard..

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By Peetawonkus, March 11, 2010 at 6:11 am Link to this comment

Gee, ardee, you and I are usually on the same wavelength. I think I got taken out behind the woodshed for something I didn’t do. I don’t recall saying Nader was a Green so spanking me for it seems a tad premature. I don’t think very much I’ve ever said has put me in disagreement with you, unless you’re looking for something to growl about. Maybe trading blows with ITW has put you in a foul mood? Remember, though, it’s not necessary to swing at every chin that comes up.

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By ardee, March 11, 2010 at 5:48 am Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind, March 11 at 9:05 am

I see that you didnt bother to read the link provided, or chose to ignore the information garnered there. Either way so sad for you. Here is yet another effort to disabuse you of your uninformed position:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

and


http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAsocialist.htm

When you state that socialism is “govt.control” you display only that you have drunk the kool aid my friend, and you will find it a rather unnourishing beverage.

Socialism is control by the people as opposed to control by the corporation that now characterizes our own rather weakened democratic republic.


That Medicare and Social Security are embodiments of the principles of socialism, from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs, is obvious to me if not to you. That you seem to believe Venezuela a failing state is an opinion not shared by the over sixty percent majority that returned Hugo Chavez Frias to office this last election. Your attempt to throw mud joins you at the hip with our own govts. attempts to overthrow this nations’ governance, are you so comfortable in bed with fascistas?

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By Inherit The Wind, March 11, 2010 at 5:05 am Link to this comment

ardee, March 9 at 7:32 am #

Inherit The Wind, March 9 at 12:52 am

One might only wish you were more informed about your subject prior to posting such generalities. Socialism exists, more in some places, less in others. What is Medicare, what is Social Security, what do you say about the govt. of Venezuela, Bolivia, Norway even…...

You posit an either or scenario and attempt to disparage socialism by referencing the distorted attempts at communism…Sorry Charlie, only the best tuna will do.

http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/isj100/rees.htm
**************************************************

Ardee: If you think Medicare and Social Security are Socialism, then I’m a Socialist, too.  And so was King Frederick the Great of Prussia, who also instituted free public education.  You don’t understand the difference between government taking responsibility for public goods (“Good Government” as it’s been defined down the ages) and government taking on and controlling the means of production, career/professions/employment AND distribution (“Socialism”).  It’s the latter two that differs Norway from a true Socialist nation. You can buy anything you want there, and get any job you want.

If you think Venezuela is “working” you and I have very different definitions of “working”, because by every definition I know, Chavez’s “revolution” is on the way to Mugabe-ing his nation, the way Mugabe turned beautiful, lush, wealthy Zimbabwe into a waste-land.  Oh, and Chavez has been using Venezuela’s 75,000 Jews who have lived there very quietly for decades as scapegoats in an age-old ploy to cover his corruption and incompetence.

I can’t speak about Bolivia except that Morales is taking a dark turn to suppress dissent to potentially kill his democracy the way Chavez is doing in Venezuela.

Maybe read a book or take a course in Public Economics—you’ll be amazed. It defines Public Goods as that which NOBODY should be allowed to despoil.  Think of the Hudson river—who does it belong to? So why should Con Edison be allowed to pollute it so others cannot use it?  THAT is Public economics! It’s not Socialism. It defines what CAN be owned privately, and what CANNOT, and therefore how to manage BY GOVERNMENT, what cannot be privately owned.

Rethugs and Libertarians hate Public Economics. That’s why I’m not a Libertarian—it just makes no f***ing sense when faced with public goods.

E-L: Have a nice day.

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By ardee, March 11, 2010 at 3:18 am Link to this comment

Peetawonkus, March 11 at 1:43 am

Firstly, Nader’s “party” hasn’t crumbled, in fact it is seeing more and more Greens elected to local and state offices each election cycle. Secondly, Nader was never a member of the Green Party.

Given the way the Duopoly Party jealously guards its monopoly on American elections one might expect an uphill battle for any third party movement.

Lastly, voting for Democrats may be “expedient” to you, but a waste of time to me.

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By notexactlyhuman, March 10, 2010 at 10:16 pm Link to this comment

Great goddamn rant! Here and I thought Chris was one
them proper respectable type journalists.

And, to someone’s comment: Free market capitalism and
corporatism are threats to democracy. In fact, they’re
incompatible. Any “one vote” in ‘murika who honestly
believes he or she has a voice is either filthy rich or
delusional . . . or both.

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By Peetawonkus, March 10, 2010 at 9:43 pm Link to this comment

Personally, I like the idea of walking out on the Democratic Party. I’ve never liked them anyway and only voted for them as a matter of expediency. One problem, however, is that there is no third party right now that has anything close to a national base. I think Nader failed, not because of a lack of good ideas, but because his “base” was overwhelmingly college kids on the internet. And his “Party” crumbled as soon as he walked off the stage. If a third party is going to succeed, it needs to organize on a local level and elect everyone from dog catchers to mayors. You don’t start at the top and work your way down.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, March 9, 2010 at 7:07 am Link to this comment

If I believed in socialism like TS portrays or some of the other folks here especialy if I was promoting it, I would find it helpful to review the book on “how to win friends and influence people”, reading that book seems to have helped Martha? 

Truthdig the poster made a post someplace in which I supported his concepts of social agendas with capital restrictions, but I stop at not allowing any capitalism, my shopping cart business is just getting off the ground, if you want to see some uppity people just take away all the shopping carts from the homeless.

Now if TS promoted Socialism more like what it is supposed to be, dumping region, I could maybe go for that, except maybe getting rid of the Pope, I find him funnest of all! We could allow for maybe tops three regions but like in the military, under the “don’t ask don’t tell” rule, because I sure as hell don’t want to hear about it.

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By ardee, March 9, 2010 at 3:32 am Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind, March 9 at 12:52 am

One might only wish you were more informed about your subject prior to posting such generalities. Socialism exists, more in some places, less in others. What is Medicare, what is Social Security, what do you say about the govt. of Venezuela, Bolivia, Norway even…...

You posit an either or scenario and attempt to disparage socialism by referencing the distorted attempts at communism…Sorry Charlie, only the best tuna will do.

http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/isj100/rees.htm

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By elisalouisa, March 8, 2010 at 10:59 pm Link to this comment

ITW :Name calling and ridicule are your trademarks as I indicated in one of my
posts just below. I agree with most comments by the Contingent and you will do
battle with anyone who does agree with their views as to the Middle East.  Your
comment “Like most Socialists, I bet you think YOU are going to make out like a
bandit on the sweat of others” doesn’t say much for you either. Your statement
about Socialism “a few enjoy the fruits of everyone else’s labor because they are
more “important” could be said about the Capitalism we have today. Capitalists are the enemy of Socialism.  What a shock if Wall Street would really have to give up their capital. Socialism is about people. Capitalism is now about greed.

Don’t be intimidated Tennessee-Socialist, Truthdig is socialist friendly.

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