The draftee resistance to Vietnam service was active outside and inside the military.

http://libcom.org/history/vietnam-gi-resistance

I remember the antiwar protests in D.C. in the late 60’s to early 70’s.  There were many and they only grew larger and more violent.

I’m surprised so few commenters are familiar with Sir! No Sir- when it was released in 2006 it created a lot of needed debate. By all means rent it, but before, just read some of the reviews from google- Roger Ebert’s is a good one to start.

Leefeller and Others:

For obvious reasons, as much as possible of the history of antiwar activity in the military during Vietnam has been supressed. But a very good start for your own research is the documentary , Sir! No Sir !

Thank you, Ron Kovic-you are a true American hero. When I went to my first anti-Viet Nam war march it was 1965 and it took place in Chicago. The numbers were in the hundreds, composed of mainly people under 25, with many priests and nuns in the mix. Marching down Clark Street, the winos in the flophouses were throwing down muscatel bottles, shouting “go back to Russia, where you belong.” Five years later, I stood on the Capitol mall in Washington, surrounded by a half million people, stretching as far as my eyes could see, all agreeing on one demand. Stop-the-War-Now! I never felt so enpowered, and have never felt so empowered since. Those in power, those responsible for This Endless War, are only afraid of one thing: people outside their homes and places of business and government with signs and chants. That’s when they know we’re serious; that’s when they feel our passion and commitment. Protest locally and nationally-but protest. Take those vacations days, or call in sick, if you have to, but go. They laugh at your votes. Remember. People are dying.

Surfnows comment below; requires some substantiation or at least he or she citing a source would be useful, to support the below comments or contentions?

“One of the many,many historical aspects of the Sixties that has been willfully extricated from the record is the fact that so many troops on the ground in Vietnam simply refused to fight by 1970-1971, that the Pentagon and Nixon had to admit the war was over.”

Another comment from Surfnow in the same vane requiring substantiation, posted below: And all this time I thought they ended the stupid war in Vietnam because 57000 troops died and they did not have anyone left to send or they wanted to appease the protesting masses?

“Balkas:”

“Yeah. Another thing many are not aware of is this was one of the reasons that Nixon and the Pentagon had to go to a ramped up air war ( there were of course political reasons too)so many draftees were out and out refusing to fight on the ground.These years 1969-1971 also brough twho really knows how many instances of fragging.”

Now I was in Vietnam in 1968 and we heard rumors of fragging and many other stories from rumor control, though I never saw any incidence of anyone refusing to fight and may I ask how does one refuse to fight? And how does one find willfully extracted information?

My friend, the anti-war movement is dead. The progressives killed it. And anyone still left in it has other motives, or will be used for such.

There is no bringing it back, in our lifetime, via liberals. Slim chance with conservatives who are awake.

Please see my remarks regarding the Nader article.

There will be no more “rising up”.

Ron Kovic has a ‘handle’ on both the ‘mechanics’ and the “unintended-side-effects” of WAR, Inc., UnLtd.  “(M)rfreeze,” “gerard,” “REDHORSE,” and others add, from their Personal and cultural viewpoints, descriptions of other dimensions of the overall situation helpful to arriving at any worthwhile (that is to say, mutually beneficial, to ALL-concerned) Way effectively to address it.

What may still be lacking, though, and contributing to a strong tendency to see this myopically as a ‘local’ issue, a primarily “American” “problem,” is a sense of its macro-Biological origins and ramifications.  The syndrome’s philosophical, institutional, and technical aspects are of-course more easily accessible for most people, so that’s what they pay their precious attention-to.  That these are, by-and-large, essentially superficial symptoms (the equivalent of mere skin eruptions, rather than the deep-seated malignancy which generates them to distract us from its own presence and process), doesn’t lessen the value of the good intentions of those focused so intently, but vainly, upon them. 

It does result, nevertheless, in the real agent of the disease process going about its degenerative “business” pretty-much unacknowledged, and so unaddressed, by nearly all of that component of Earth’s immune system whose vital function it is to do so.  Right now, only the free wild remnant of Humanity never co-opted by the “civilization” disease continues to fulfill, as best we can, our Kind’s given organic function here. 

As awful as it is, war is also only a symptom.  Poverty is a symptom.  Environmental degradation is a symptom.  All the ills to which the virtual subspecies homo domesticus is heir are only symptoms.  They’re obviously all “global” by now.  They all have also their “individual”-ized manifestations in the lonely half-lives of our tame Sisters and Brothers.

What then is the actual malady?  How has it erupted here?  What can we do to heal our Mother Earth, and at the same time our own Kind, of it?

We are (perhaps mortally) afflicted with “self”-ishness. The minstrel/poet Bob Dylan has called it “the disease of conceit.”  Some here have noticed that this Old Indian, who is just a free wild natural Human Person, and in no way ‘special,’ regularly emphasizes the CON in that term, to call attention to the false promise inherent in “self”-centrism….and in its over-arching human-ist orthodoxy.

We’ve come-by this CONdition honestly enough.  The retro-viral entities which induce it in susceptible populations are as much a part of the Living Universe as the “flu-bug” is of our Living Arrangement here.  That our Mother picked-up a variety of the thing may be unfortunate.  It is hardly unheard-of.

Like some of its ‘local’ micro-strains, the cosmic agent operates by infesting some component of a Living Body’s natural immune system.  Taking over its targets’ nuclei (the “operating system)”, the agent then uses its access to all the Host Body’s organic systems to degrade Her natural vitality into the various types of degenerate “energy” the thing “powers” its own “self” with.  Its process effectively turns these corrupted components into “individual”-ized micro-versions of its “self.”  These in-turn reproduce their “self,” in a process intended to be “self” sustaining (call it “civilization”)....until, anyway, the Hostess dies.

By then, the agent expects to be em-“powered” to move-on to its next target Planet, probably hitchhiking on some device its ‘local’ captives will’ve engineered and sent into “space.”  One more Life-less world will be the only sign of its passage.

We’re not dead yet, Sisters and Brothers.  We can get well by getting free of the sickening “self.”   

We do that by Singing and Dancing together, with All Our Relations, Loving each other and Her who brung us to Life.     

HokaHey!

“I have a respect for Mr. Kovic for his actions became once he became aware of the consequences of his actions, he acted in a different manner. But I have more respect for people who realized that it was wrong before they enlisted in the ‘military’ and refused to join and support the military effort” 

INteresting point, Not One More!
I just finished reading Jon Krakauer’s book about Pat Tillman and it reminds me of what you say. PatTillman’s tragic death by friendly fire was bad enough , but the way the government’s propaganda appartus used his story was contemptible and obscene. BUt the real tragedy was that Pat Tillman was intelligent, educated and informed and totally understood how the invasion of Iraq was all about oil.And yet he still went back to Afghanistan even when he had a chance to end his commitment early. It just shows how powerful that mythology of the military hero is in our culture and how these young people get so caught up in it.

It wasn’t the slave owners who created slavery. It isn’t the soldiers who are committing war crimes. Or is it?

At some point the line is blurred as to who holds more responsibility for committing the war atrocities (the elected officials sending the soldiers to the illegal war or the soldiers who just follow orders and carry out the war crimes). But in the end, it makes little difference to the victims of these military actions because the last thing that they think about before the bullet tears through their body is ‘who is really responsible?’

I have a respect for Mr. Kovic for his actions became once he became aware of the consequences of his actions, he acted in a different manner. But I have more respect for people who realized that it was wrong before they enlisted in the ‘military’ and refused to join and support the military effort. (on another note, is it really a victory for humanity when openly gay people are now allowed to commit war crimes?)

I’m glad that Mr. Kovic is trying to raise the awareness of others so they don’t have to learn after the fact what the right thing to do is and that is tremendously important and I thank Mr. Kovic for spending 40 years of his life to that effort.

But what should also be stressed is how the ‘democrats’ are implicit in their support of a war based economy (it’s all about the money folks).

Support third party because as long as you are voting for a democrat you are supporting the status quo. Nothing has changed under Obama (but no big surprise there).

http://www.NotOneMore.US - take the Pledge for Peace

“I’d rather vote for what I want and not get it than vote for what I don’t want, and get it.” - Eugene Debs

Thanks Redhorse! Thanks Gerard!

18 Iraq/Afghan/Gulf Vets committ suicide daily in the U.S.A. More VietNam Vets have committed suicide than those who died in the war itself. The psychological/physical wounds of war cripple. They cripple the men and women who participate and they cripple the Nations that exploit senseless war for profit. Lines of moral demarcation define humanity. There is serious consequence for their violation. It doesn’t matter who did what, everybody pays.

      It is obvious that America has entered a moral no-mans-land. Total corrupt human moral abdication by its political leadership, open destruction of its social/financial structures and predatory for profit exploitation of its citizens with no regard to consequence defines the reality. It ain’t something else.

      MRFREEZE question isn’t hair splitting. The new Corporate Feudalists need mercenary armies. Their MIC shadow boys and D.C. revolving door fixers are the interface between International Black Market crime and coolers like Obama. QUESTION IS: What is an American fighter to think when he/she encounters mercs getting 5K a week to do the same job they are. Hell, their wife and kids back home are on food stamps. What do you think? These are the kinds of quandaries that arise when you allow psychopaths to seize control of your Nation. Remember when you hsd a Constitution and a Bill of Rights. Criminals by any other name are just as foul.

      Our Vets deserve every benefit they receive and all the support we can give them. And you should keep in mind the fact that those D.C. flag wavers with their shiney lapel pins will cut a Vets throat at the drop of a hat. The other thing to remember is that in every instance listed above: It’s your money and labor footing the bill.

Mr. Freeze:  Probably veterans of illegal wars of conquest like Iraq and Afghanistan feel “entitled” because they joined voluntarily.  Many did this because they saw it as their only, or “easiest” way to earn a regular income, there being few to no other jobs available to them. (Some fell for the hype as well, but not all, and nobody knows the percentages.)
  As a matter of fact the men and women who enlisted are not entirely wrong in regarding these wars as “industries” or “business enterprises” entitling workers to health benefits and pensions etc., though violent conquests are disguised as somehow different from businesses—more heroic, and certainly more dangerous to life and limb than working in a “business enterprise.”  (The line is between the two has become extremely thin.)
  The extra-severe risks involved cause veterans, (especially those returning with health and injury problems) feel “entitled” to all the benefits they need, and most of which were guaranteed to them by recruiters when they enlisted.  I agree with them. The sad fact is that many are NOT getting necessary care and help promised.
  Some even return home intending to reintegrate into “regular” society, but can’t find jobs, have changed so much due to war experiences, and end up re-enlisting against their better judgment.They see their civilian prospects and relationships ruined by their war experiences.  They lose hope.
  There is no amount of money or aid that can repair the damages they suffer, and they are entitled to every cent they ever collect—and then some.
  The wise answer is to stop the “war business” and shut down the military-industrial complex rather than to depend on it as the “economic engine” of the “greatest democracy in the world.”

One More Thing Balkas:
If you’re interested, there are some great documentaries available even at Netfilx- ” Winter Soldier”  ” In the Year of the Pig”  but espeically on the topic of troop insurrection- ” Sir! No Sir!”.

I’d like to ask some of you commentators here if I’m imagining something:

1) The Veterans of former wars, starting with Vietnam and going back in time, seem to have a far better grasp of what being a soldier is and what terrible things happen as a result of war. I grew up during Vietnam and let’s face it, draftees are a very different group than the current “volunteers.”

2) The current veterans (and active military) strike me as “feeling entitled” to some sort of special treatment. During the holidays I perused a number of blogs having to do with the problems veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan face. What so disturbs me is that many vets seem to feel that they’ve “worked hard” for their country and they should be receiving a vast array of “benefits.” Many express disdain for the working-class who pay taxes to support their “quasi-welfare” lives. There’s the usual hero worship and self-adoration that comes with being soldiers. Yes, in today’s America all soldiers are “heroes.”

I’m afraid that the Military Industrial Complex is creating a whole new “class” of Americans who, by virtue of volunteering to fight in our ridiculous, illegal and costly wars somehow believe they have protected “the American Dream,” a dream I fear that applies to fewer and fewer Americans.

Balkas:
Yeah. Another thing many are not aware of is this was one of the reasons that Nixon and the Pentagon had to go to a ramped up air war ( there were of course political reasons too)so many draftees were out and out refusing to fight on the ground.These years 1969-1971 also broughtwho really knows how many instances of fragging.By the way I agree with you. The sociopaths at the top of the military indutsrial complex couldn’t give a rat’s a** about protests at home- but epidemic insubrdination and insurrection in the field in Vietnam must still give them nightmares.

Making stuff up is not only for the MSM, the web seems to have its own affliction of BS.

surfnow,
this is the first time i heard that so many u.s
soldiers refused to fight in vietnam from ‘71.
thus helping to stop u.s aggression there.

this bolsters my conclusion that no protest wld
ever even delay an u.s aggression let alone
prevent, or stop it once under way.

it seems only a threat, such soldiers not fighting
or dodging the fight and a political party, can
even prevent an aggression or stop it once
underway. tnx for the info!

One of the many,many historical aspects of the Sixties that has been willfully extricated from the record is the fact that so many troops on the ground in Vietnam simply refused to fight by 1970-1971, that the Pentagon and Nixon had to admit the war was over. We’renot talking a few Army Units here or there, we are talking about entire Platoons and Companies of Army, Navy and even Marines. But of course the Amerikan mlitary -industrial complex is terrified of not only that truth but of that ever happening again, Which is why there will never be another drafted militray- the System only wants those sufficiently brainwashed, naive or just plain stupid to do their bidding.

By PatrickHenry, January 1 at 4:58 pm Link to this comment:
“As long as we have the all volunteer army of mercenaries I feel the public condemnation will be muted, after all they chose to be “over there” and are making a better wage than working at McDonalds or Walmart.”

Aptly put Henry. I’d like to make a further inference. The outsourcing of well paying jobs creates a perfect feed back loop for corporate exploitation. Risk you butt for decent benefits, because to trust a company that will not assure job security is a bridge too far for HS grads or even now graduates of college. And college is tantamount to indentured sevitude considering the debt load. The consumer-based economic model is now all about maximizing public debt and accumulating the interest and minimum payments. How long will this idiocy be sustainable? Ask you Citibank represenative in Congress.

Reasons for the wars -
If we don’t fight them there, they’ll come here
(They’re recruited here - Americans -duh it just takes a pilot or two)
We need to fight the war on Terror
(Where would that be?
We need to be in a state of permanent global war )
It’s our job to bring Democracy to the world
(Right - force countries to determine themselves by attacking their country - that’s alwasy worked.)

Meantime, just ignore the death-worshipers behind the gangbangers behind the curtain.  This isn’t about make-believe “America,” Sisters and Brothers.  That “dream” is over.

This is the real thing….the actual EMERGENCY.

HokaHey!

All the justifications for going to war in Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Pakistan were highly dubious.  Poking stick in a hornets nest will not add to our security one bit, just to opposite.  As far as the oil, minerals and pipelines go, we could have bought these from the people of these countries for a lot less than what it cost in lives and money to try and get these at gunpoint. At the end of the day the corporate bastards that profit from all the wars would rater have the soldiers killed and the taxpayers pay for all this so they could rack up the profits.  Lot like the way things are done right here at home.

Sgt. Kovics’ is a simple request for aid in confronting the lie machine that manufactured the present State of War. Either do or don’t.

    The abject moral failure and profligate corruption of American Political and Judiciary leadership returns all responsibility and power directly to the People. All decisions political and moral now rest with the citizen. There are no non-combatants. Innocence is dead. The consequences of moral abdication are real.

    Organize or perish.

http://www.liberalvoices.com/

We need a people-centered coup to get us out of the war mode.

Both wars will ultimately cost between $3 trillion and $5 trillion. The stupidity of throwing away that kind of money when Americans are in need of jobs, education, infrastructure and health care is colossal.

Spending more for a military than the rest of the world combined only depletes our resources of men, women, materials, and technology, while leaving our competitors free to kick our economic asses from here to the bottoms of global ditches where we are supposedly fighting terrorism.

Our pampered global corporations will do fine because the asses that will be kicked belong to workers and the American middle class. Corporations will just exploit.

Our most challenged and incurious President, and now one of our brightest Presidents, is making the same mistake, blowing money on fruitless efforts of military fighting and occupation, efforts that are doomed for failure.

Our terrorist enemies, happy with their accomplishments, deride us and scoff at our motions of “fighting terrorism” while domestic needs are starved of funding.

Unarmed and helpless, leaders watch our infrastructure crumble, our schools turn out non-competitive workers, the unemployed despair, scarred veterans return to bleak futures, and brave fighting men and women lose life and limb in efforts made futile by mindless forays into sovereign countries with alien cultures.

Thanks Gerard, good points yes; there has been much ado about advocates of peace not supporting the troops and of course labeling promoters of peace as being unpatriotic. When in effect the destruction of the Constitution seems a non issue.

Leefeller:  Possible answers to consider:
  1,  Having seen the grim realities, maybe they are in some ways specially qualified?
  2.  People who think peace groups are anti-patriotic kooks might give more credence to veterans who obviously have “proven” that they are patriotic. (This would tend to make some people more confident that the veterans’ group is not “socialist” etc. etc.
  3.  Maybe they know there are many veterans, in active service and otherwise, who would trust them more and join as brothers and sisters whereas civilians (of a broader stripe of experiences) might be considered “less reliable”?
  Other?

Eric Johansson or anyone else;

Power takeovers of causes is nothing new, I suspect even peace movements are not unsustainable. What I do not understand is why “Veterans for Peace”  why not people or everyone for peace?  I understand the credence of the Veteran being one myself, but why the clear cut distinctness?

Lots to tie together here:
1, Leefeller points out “nothing is new.”  This ignores the WikiLeaks releases and their significance, pointing out new possibilities of the worldwide free Internet toward opening up information deliberately hidden from people who need it in order to govern themselves.
2. skimohawk bemoans “no free press today”, apparently not realizing that WikiLeaks points to an answer for that problem.
3.ArtfulDodger suggests:  “..if we can remove false flag operations”.  Relevant and timely information kept secret from the public could be revealed by proper use of technology for the benefit of citizens and false flag operations would be much more difficult to pull off if people knew ahead of time through proper use of information technologies like WikiLeaks. WikiLeaks, WikiLeaks!  We need to absorb the meaning of this revolutionary event and realize its potential. We ignore it at great risk to the future of democracy.
  Eric Johansson brings up an old, unsolved problem of the peace movement in general related to ideological disputes between left and more left peace groups. Until they can unite around strict nonviolent action I don’t see how they can succeed under present circumstances.  The left versus more left doesn’t matter as much as the gap between violence and nonviolence both in theory and in practice.  Groups that insist on violence as a way to stop nonviolence have an uphill struggle because many more people these days see that you can’t get peace by making war.  The truth has been a long time buried, but especially since Afghanistan it’s now more apparent than ever.
  Thanks, Ron Kovic.

I hope you will sign this petition and get your friends to sign it.

Fight back against conservatives in congress. Boycott some companies that donate to conservatives in congress.

Sign this petition at http://www.democratz.org demanding congress and the President enact a progressive agenda. Pass this link around to every one of your friends. Post it on bulletin boards, blogs and facebook groups around this country and send it on twitter. The Peaceful revolution has begun.

We have a demand to end the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq in the petition.

Always seems to be one asshole in the crowd, bringing out there holy Zionist card! What is this, some kind of code to change the thread for one reason or the other? Ignorance seems like a horn of plenty, stupidity has no bounds and bigotry manipulations even more so!

One can hope to ignore them like Sarah Palin, only to find them like the conspiring theorists who love to reflect on the grassy knoll, obviously small minds are not exclusive to the Republicans.

Ass holes of ass holes permeate the world and sadly nothing is new.

The anti-war movement of the 60s was led by Zionists.  The difference between now and then is that now the Zionists support the war.

Well said, PatrickHenry, January 1 at 4:58 pm.

The Democrats are as enabling of war as the Republicans, so focusing on one seems a weak link in reason and a grave error in opinion.

Bush the Republican Vietnam evader promoted the wars and the Democrats approved them, both parties seem war hawks to me.

Being frustrated by the opportunists in Washington is not a new feeling for me, but why do you sound surprised and mad or upset with TD posters Michael Cavlan RN?

Inherit The Wind

You talk of Obama not remembering the war protest movements of the 60’s
and 70’s.

The reality is quite different. The war protest movement generation that gave
us Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, Woodstock etc etc etc are the very ones who
presented us with John Kerry, Bill Clinton and their latest war criminal Barack
Obama.

I see cars with the bumper sticker of things like End-less Wars and Peace signs.

Right next to their Obama sticker. What the hell is wrong with these people?

The reason that there are no significant war protests are quite simple. It has
nothing to do with the draft (although it is a small factor)

It is because there is a DEMOCRAT in the White House.

Until folks wake up to that reality, that the Democratic Party are the frigging
ENEMY of Peace, Justice and progressive politics, it is my studied opinion that
nothing will change..

In the 60’s the chants were Hey Hey LBJ (who was at least supportive of the
poor) How Many Kids Did You Kill Today.

Now it is

Yes We Can or Give Obama A Chance.

Mind you, I am pretty much done with the TruthDig debating society as well..

I visit here less and less.

But but aren’t the soldiers protecting us from…help me out here- this is where it gets fuzzy - oh well they’re protecting us - Raise that flag - launch those drones - we are on a God-ordained mission of freedom and liberation!

As long as we have the all volunteer army of mercenaries I feel the public condemnation will be muted, after all they chose to be “over there” and are making a better wage than working at McDonalds or Walmart.

If we still had the draft and our children were being taken from us unwillingly, parents would have a more vested interest in who America chooses to wage war on.

With the draft these wars would have been over a long time ago.

Ron Kovic has been a brilliant and articulate advocate for sane paths for 40 years now.  I remember him on talk shows in the ‘70’s, still a young man.

But the GOP chicken hawks and the Dim chicken gizzards don’t see the vast pain of the Ron Kovics of the world.  Hell, Bush & co CUT funding for the VA and especially the Afghanistan/Iraq wars’ wounded service men and women.  Since Lincoln’s time we, as a nation, have advocated as one of our HIGHEST values to take care of the wounded vet and his/her family.

Even that was violated by the coward/bully George W. Bush. 

As for Barack Obama?  He falls in between the Viet Nam and Afghan war generations…and doesn’t remember the war protest movement of the 60’s and early 70’s.

But Ron Kovic is a potent reminder of it all.  In so many ways our nation owes a giant debt to this hero.

Wars of commerce, opportunity and manipulation what reason is there for theses wars?  Vietnam Vets served 13 months back then, I cannot comprehend the multi tours the troops now serve and even how Viet Nam evader Bush sent in the National Guard without nary a complaint.

Disgusting opportunism seems to me and such a waste of lives and money to be ignored by a seemingly propagandized media which focuses on contrived inaneness.

So, what war again?

It is really encouraging to see Vietnam Vets getting involved in trying to stop this madness.  I think they as a group can lend a special credibility to the anti-war effort.  All we need to do is get to a certain level of critical mass to catalyze a meaningful change from within such as occurred ultimately to end the outrage of Vietnam.

Our government is so steeped in lies and evil that it no longer represents what is true and good about America. The greedy rich and powerful who are without conscience have stolen our country. We must do everything we can to get it back.

Great article and inspirational. i will make that commitment to oppose these wars
some way with others/ It doesn’t take much to ignite a prairie fire.

This is a powerful article and should be taken to heart by every american and around the world, my hat’s off to you Ron and to all who have paid a dear price for false or unknown reasons!

Time to stop this war, friends, and we have to do it ourselves.