Top Leaderboard, Site wide
September 18, 2014
Truthdig: Drilling Beneath the Headlines
Help us grow by sharing
and liking Truthdig:
Sign up for Truthdig's Email NewsletterLike Truthdig on FacebookFollow Truthdig on TwitterSubscribe to Truthdig's RSS Feed

Newsletter

sign up to get updates


A New Way Insurers Are Shifting Costs to the Sick
Climate Action and Economies Can Grow Together




On the Run


Truthdig Bazaar
The Nature and Destiny of Man

The Nature and Destiny of Man

By Reinhold Niebuhr; Robin W. Lovin (Introduction by)

more items

 
Report

Outlawing Latinos’ Heritage

Email this item Email    Print this item Print    Share this item... Share

Posted on May 14, 2010

By Eugene Robinson

At least we don’t have to pretend anymore. Arizona’s passing of that mean-spirited new immigration law wasn’t about high-minded principle or the need to maintain public order. Apparently, it was all about putting Latinos in their place.

It’s hard to reach any other conclusion following the state’s latest swipe at Latinos. On Tuesday, Gov. Jan Brewer signed a measure making it illegal for any course in the public schools to “advocate ethnic solidarity.” Arizona’s top education official, Tom Horne, fought for the new law as a weapon against a program in Tucson that teaches Mexican-American students about their history and culture.

Horne claims the Tucson classes teach “ethnic chauvinism.” He has complained that young Mexican-Americans are falsely being led to believe that they belong to an oppressed minority. The way to dispel that notion, it seems, is to pass oppressive new legislation aimed squarely at Mexican-Americans. That’ll teach the kids a lesson, all right: We have power. You don’t.

Arizona is already facing criticism and boycotts over its “breathing while Latino” law, which in essence requires police to identify and jail undocumented immigrants. Now the state adds insult to that injury.

The education bill begins with a bizarre piece of nonsense, making it illegal for public or charter schools to offer courses that “promote the overthrow of the United States government.” Then it shifts from weird to offensive, prohibiting classes that “promote resentment toward a race or class of people,” that “are designed primarily for pupils of a particular ethnic group” and that “advocate ethnic solidarity instead of the treatment of pupils as individuals.” When you try to parse those words, the effect is chilling.

Advertisement

Square, Site wide
Is it permissible, under the new law, to teach basic history? More than half the students in the Tucson Unified School District are Latino, the great majority of them Mexican-American. The land that is now Arizona once belonged to Mexico. Might teaching that fact “promote resentment” among students of Mexican descent? What about a class that taught students how activists fought to end discrimination against Latinos in Arizona and other Western states? Would that illegally encourage students to resent the way their parents and grandparents were treated?

The legislation has an answer: Mexican-American students, it seems, should not be taught to be proud of their heritage.

This angry anti-Latino spasm in Arizona is only partly about illegal immigration, which has fallen substantially in the past few years. It’s really about fear and denial.

About 30 percent of the state’s population is Latino, and that number continues to rise. This demographic shift has induced culture shock among some Arizonans who see the old Anglo power structure losing control. It is evidently threatening, to some people, that Mexican-Americans would see themselves as a group with common interests and grievances—and even more threatening that they might see themselves as distant heirs to the men and women who lived in Arizona long before the first Anglos arrived.

To counter the threat, solidarity among Mexican-Americans has to be delegitimized. The group itself has to be atomized—has to be taught to see itself as a population of unaffiliated individuals. The social, cultural and historical ties that have united people across the border since long before there was a border must be denied.

Every minority group’s struggle for acceptance is distinctive, but I can’t avoid hearing echoes of the Jim Crow era in the South. Whites went to great lengths to try to keep “agitators” from awakening African-Americans’ sense of pride and injustice. They failed, just as the new Arizona law will fail.

It’s important to distinguish between Arizona officials’ legitimate concerns and their illegitimate ones. The state does have a real problem with illegal immigration, and the federal government has ignored its responsibility to enact comprehensive reform that would make the border more secure. But Arizona is lashing out with measures that will not just punish the undocumented, but also negatively impact Mexican-American citizens whose local roots are generations deep.

The new education law is gratuitous and absurd. Arizona can’t be picked up and moved to the Midwest; it’s next to Mexico. There have always been families and traditions that straddle the two societies, and there always will be. Mexican-Americans are inevitably going to feel proud of who they are and where they came from—even if acknowledging and encouraging such pride in the classroom are against the law.

You know kids. They’ll just learn it in the street.

Eugene Robinson’s e-mail address is eugenerobinson(at)washpost.com.
   
© 2010, Washington Post Writers Group


New and Improved Comments

If you have trouble leaving a comment, review this help page. Still having problems? Let us know. If you find yourself moderated, take a moment to review our comment policy.

By Inherit The Wind, May 20, 2010 at 11:47 am Link to this comment

Seems like 99% of our troubles comes from somebody deliberately mislabeling something so it pisses somebody else off.  Just like they did with busing, picking racial groups when the “Princeton Plan” solved all the problems—bus the kids by age, not race.  So, in my town, rather than dividing middle school’ers up geographically or racially, all the 6th graders go to one school, then the 7th and 8ty graders go to another.  Problem solved.

Why does it have to be “Racial Solidarity Studies” when it can be “Latin American Studies”?  40 years ago in High School I had sections on Chinese, African, Indian and European history.  Why can’t sections be added on Central American and South American history?

All a deliberate attempt to create an issue where there doesn’t need to be one.

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 20, 2010 at 10:16 am Link to this comment

could you have a Caucasian-American Culture class that catered only to the white kids and taught them to be true to their race?

Yes, that’s what we’ve had for the last 234 years.

Report this

By JS1, May 19, 2010 at 11:18 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Why should there be a racial-solidarity related class taught anywhere? The
problem is we are allowing a generation of people to come up believing they
should be loyal to their ethnicity or the country of their forefathers first, and loyal
to the USA somewhere later down the list. If there are courses of study celebrating
one ethnicity over another, we’re taking huge steps backwards. I know it sounds
cliche, but could you have a Caucasian-American Culture class that catered only
to the white kids and taught them to be true to their race? I think we call that the
KKK. So why is it ok for other groups? Until we are all ok with being AMERICANS,
we will always be divided.  Great law in AZ.

Report this

By REDHORSE, May 19, 2010 at 11:45 am Link to this comment

NO AMNESTY EVER!!ENFORCE CURRENT EMIGRATION LAW NOW!! JAIL THOSE WHO EMPLOY ILLEGALS!! GET LEGAL OR GET OUT!!

Report this
Liquor Store Larry's avatar

By Liquor Store Larry, May 19, 2010 at 10:17 am Link to this comment

“If the Arizona Nativist Know-Nothings prove anything, it is that there just some human sub-cultures too vicious and stupid, too lacking in humanity or any aesthetic to survive for long on the world stage” - - - - HE SAID WHILE visions of virgins, ritually murdered and then dropped into sacrificial pools danced through his imagination. This might be just a slight projection? I think this comment is right up there with the brilliant results of the Mexican revolution which must be the reason that representatives of the Mexican State of Sonora are angry and have accused Arizona’s legislators of causing the influx of Mexicans into Mexico . .this would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic .. The Mayan Calendar may be half right ...the world will end in 2012…... except for Arizona. Koo koo, koo koo, koo koo!

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 19, 2010 at 8:40 am Link to this comment

It has been said revolutions require fanatics who
will fight to the death for their cause, once over
and if won, the cat fighting starts and power once
again takes precedence, so after the power struggle
it seem things returns to the same or close to the
same as before the revolution, just different
players.

Is Mexico better off than before their Revolution?
Hell the USA is almost back to what it was before
it’s Revolution!

So it seems! But I am a cynic.

Report this
Liquor Store Larry's avatar

By Liquor Store Larry, May 19, 2010 at 8:27 am Link to this comment

Eugenio - “The Mexican revolution riveted on issues like land reform and recognition of labor”???

LMAO - and boy did it work out great..dream on mah brothah.. So great that they are tripping over each others feet to escape. You live in dream world. Just once trying addressing reality. We already have a culture, we speak English, we celebrate James Madison and the Framers of our Constitution and OUR CULTURE has enabled us to provide a sanctuary for the whole world, even the massive influx of Mexicans who are fleeing the failure of this fictitious revolution which exists only in the romance of your imagination.

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 19, 2010 at 8:16 am Link to this comment

Respect of peoples heritage seems similar to the
connection of family. Why does it seem, heritage of all
peoples not equal?

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 19, 2010 at 7:35 am Link to this comment

Great post Eugenio, nothing to disagree with there.

Report this

By Eugenio Costa, May 19, 2010 at 1:59 am Link to this comment

Mexican culture is the only genuine, longterm, large and viable New And Old World synthesis in the Northern Hemisphere.

It moves slowly but inexorably and it is far more enduring than anything the US has to offer, save perhaps small pockets of native American tribes, like the Navajo or Hopi, or Cajuns or Maine French, and the like.

As Paz and Fuentes have pointed out, the Mexican revolution, which preceded the Soviet, was not bound by an ironclad ideology, but was very human and riveted on issues like land reform and recognition of labor. More important it is still going on at its own pace.

What the US Capitalist despises and never had in the United States, that is, peasants, is exactly the soul of every great and lasting culture and civilization.

Mexican culture has a place for any worthwhile human beings, even English-speakers.

Like Italian culture, it is simpatico to all human life and it also comprises its own art, film, literature,language, religion, food, dress,  sexuality, and so forth.

It is both native Indian and Spanish and it is stable and original, with much still to give to humanity.

Nothing similar can be said about the US, which is a predatory Capitalist warfare state at the end of its very short rope, as cultures go.

If the Arizona Nativist Know-Nothings prove anything, it is that there just some human sub-cultures too vicious and stupid, too lacking in humanity or any aesthetic, to survive for long on the world stage.

Report this

By gerard, May 18, 2010 at 6:25 pm Link to this comment

As long as you can be satisfied to spout ‘hateful hyperbole”  you can feel emotionally relieved by letting off steam and by blaming problems on “them”—whoever “them” is. Usually “them” turns out to be some minority coming from a different place who are already weakened by discrimination at the hands of people who feel economically, socially, religiously superior.  They feel threatened by differences and have more political power than their victims.
  As the world is made smaller by information/misinformation, by over-population and
lack of commonly-held standards that support minimum universal goals, we are all challenged to cope with rapid changes. Wise action is absolutely required for human survival.
  So far the U.S., for all its wealth and power, is not doing a very outstanding job.

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 18, 2010 at 5:26 pm Link to this comment

Larry, I understand the logic behind your argument. I just can’t agree that this law is the best approach. The ends don’t justify the means is an appropriate metaphor here. I don’t agree with the state in effect deputizing police officers to become immigration or border patrol agents. As to securing the border I agree that short of putting troops on the border we need an increase presence of agents on the border. Most of these people trying to cross are not criminals but desperate individuals that want to work. I can’t see how we as a humane society would prefer to divert them into the desert were many have died from exposure to the elements. Or how imposing draconian laws against them serve the best for national interest.

An effective migrant guest worker program would let these people come to work and then go home. Some of them may only come a few times make enough money to build a home, open up a little store, or buy some livestock, or plant their fields so that they have a better chance of becoming self sufficient and they won’t have the need to come here. This would free up the border resources to trap drug traffickers and criminals who would still resort to cross the desert.

As to the drug problem at the border the source is not so much Mexico as is Colombia and Venezuela which is where its grown and the staging area for getting the drugs into Mexico and eventually here. Honduras is also major transit point into Mexico. In Colombia we have a government that wants to cooperate with the US in its drug wars. But they have terrorist guerrilla movement that finances itself with drug trafficking to the Mexican mafias. They also have problems within their military and police forces in regards to human rights violations. The government has vastly improved its efforts and I feel we should increase our efforts there to stop the flow of drugs. The Venezuelans have a big hand in this by supporting the guerrillas that produce and traffic the drugs. In Venezuela we have a government that wants to undermine the US and is waging asymmetrical war against us. But we haven’t been saints either and the failed coup there of 2002 has US fingerprints all over it. We are completing ignoring this problem and since Venezuela supplies nearly 20% of of the crude to the oil hungry American behemoth we appear to not want to rock the boat. Now I know lefties will gang up on me for having this view but the reality is that that it is all connected. Our border problems has one of its root sources in the jungles of Colombian and Venezuela. We don’t have enough resources addressing this instead we are fighting among ourselves.

Of course we can not forget how we ourselves are contributing to this by consuming these drugs. So we have a lot to do at here at home to fix this and profiling Latinos is not going to solve the problem because it goes beyond the border and beyond Arizona. That part is completely stupid.

So you see Larry its all connected and it goes beyond an immigration issue or a cultural studies issue. While we are attacking each other some not so nice people that don’t like us very much are doing what they can to undermine us and worsen our problems. So immigration and cultural studies are minor problems that serve more as a diversion to much deeper causes.

Report this
Liquor Store Larry's avatar

By Liquor Store Larry, May 18, 2010 at 4:33 pm Link to this comment

Jay - yes, we need a good faith way to verify eligibility to work but we ALSO need to secure the border. The illegal immigration problem is far far larger than just jobs. It is about an orderly immigration process that allows us to absorb and assimilate immigrants one wave at a time so that our schools, hospitals and prisons are not overwhelmed and our already bankrupt states are not stretched to the breaking point. After that, there is always the issue of porous borders as it relates to terrorism having nothing to do with Mexican immigration or Chinese immigration etc. I agree that the AZ law has the potential to lead to profiling etc, as do most of the Americans polled who overwhelmingly support the AZ law but they want the federal government to act to secure the border and see this as a way to achieve that. Thus far we have allowed the flaws with every suggestion to paralyze us out of all action. There will always be an element of racism in society but racism is not a motivating factor for a vast majority of those who want secure borders. No matter what issue one addresses he/she is getting in bed with someone unsavory these days. We can’t allow the incidentals to drive the train.

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 18, 2010 at 3:57 pm Link to this comment

PH,

I agree. I don’t feel we need all the hoopla of the Arizona law. I believe that there has to be a more cost effective way to get a handle on the problem short of becoming a police state or putting troops on the border.

The police state solution is expensive and it opens the door for civil rights violations. Now I know that our small government friends on the right have no problem with big government when it comes to harassing a despised easily identifiable group cause it doesn’t affect them. But when you open the door to violate civil rights of a group when is it going to be your turn to be pigeonholed in a group. Even worse if your family gets pigeonholed in a group. So I’m against laws that impose draconian measures on any group whether it be Latinos, Blacks, Asians, Jews, Catholics, Poles, Russians, Atheists, Agnostics, etc. You get my drift, when is it going to be enough?

The military solution to the border problem opens the door to extreme waste of resources. Money and otherwise. It compounds the police state problem. We seem to think that we can intimidate, harass, browbeat, scream, spin, lie, shoot or bomb ourselves out of any problem. We are the only country in the world that put men on the moon and we can’t figure this out? We have the resources, the know how and the technology to solve this problem without spending billions of dollars. Without violating basic civil rights. Without troops on the border. Instead it seems that we Americans opt more for hateful hyperbole and hysteria.

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 18, 2010 at 3:22 pm Link to this comment

Larry,

No wonder you opt for this to be an employer’s problem. That way you assure that there is NEVER a solution.

Okay, Larry we’ll make sure that the undocumented migrant verifies himself, or we can just take his word for it that he is legal, or we can just accept any forged document he hands us. We can always say “geez Mr. Immigration Officer he gave me these papers and they looked real enough”.

Larry, be realistic. We need a fast effective way to identify workers eligibility to work, preferably online, if you really want to get a handle on the problem the way you say. A system should provide a way to document the employers good faith verification effort. Such a system should have the individuals picture just like your drivers license. Maybe even a bar code. Alien residents get fingerprinted anyway so why not make that also part of the employment verification process. It can all be done digitally. This way if the undocumented migrant gets through the cracks and shows up at the employers doorstep there is no excuse not to verify. Like your friend with the 2 Drivers License. The guy has to be on the system. The employer needs to have a paper trail on file that the verification protocol was adhered to. If the employer did his due diligence and the guy got through the cracks anyway the employers paper trail will absolve him of any liability. So yea, that’s too much of Big Brother meddling in our lives but if serious about getting a handle on the problem you have to have drastic measures which only Big Brother can take. I don’t see how you can have it both ways.

Its a double edged sword Larry isn’t it. You support racial profiling and you can’t be for that proposal?

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 18, 2010 at 2:55 pm Link to this comment

jay1953,

It seems we may have shared the same youth.

I agree with your view that proof of residency papers shouldn’t have to be provided upon a simple traffic stop without resonable cause.  Upon arrest, it does become an issue and should weigh into the equation along with constitutional rights for the accused.

We are however in the era of the Patriot Act which effectively puts us all at the mercy of a faceless bureaucrat with “Al Qaeda” on the mind,  Mistakes happen quickly and sorting them out takes forever.

Report this
Liquor Store Larry's avatar

By Liquor Store Larry, May 18, 2010 at 2:08 pm Link to this comment

The big fracas downtown was in response to Phil Jackson’s comments which were basically that the Phoenix Suns should have stayed out of politics. Anyhow, hardly anyone showed up to protest and I heard some clips of interviews with the few who did show up and they were uniformly illiterate and misinformed about why they were even there and the frosting on the cake was the Lakers gave Los Suns a good ass whoopin’!

Report this

By REDHORSE, May 18, 2010 at 2:03 pm Link to this comment

There was a huge fight downtown last night. Months ago our mayor put a plan in place at our city jail to fingerprint all people arrested for a crime regardless of ethnicity. Anyone with a warrant or here without legal documentation would be sent on to the Fed or ICE for prosecution. There was a huge outcry by latino activists that this was discrimination. So, even if you are an illegal caught in a criminal act here you cannot be ask’d about your legal status or deported?! Of course, who do you think was shouting “racist nazi’s” at the top of their lungs? Hey, what is that?? Oh yeah:”—-all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others—”.

Report this

By gerard, May 18, 2010 at 1:39 pm Link to this comment

Liquor Store Larry:  American “exceptionalism” is not my idea.  It is a commonly accepted way of talking about an idea of uniqueness that is pceuliarly popular in this country, and stems, I think, from our unique history:  A country uniting various immigrants from the beginning (although at the expense of killing off most of the real “natives”)and enslaving tens of thousands of people stolen from Africa. 
  Since the beginning our history books have told us we are “the only country in the world that is ....” or “has ...”  (you fill the blank with “free”, more this or that, the largest this or that, the most power, the biggest whatever.)
  Most of the statements were not true, or were true only because of luck or money.
  Other places also think of themselves as superior in one way or another, but the U.S. has been more vocal about pushing their national ego, and that does not go down well with others. It seems childish and conceited.

Report this
Liquor Store Larry's avatar

By Liquor Store Larry, May 18, 2010 at 12:02 pm Link to this comment

“verifying credentials should take place on the job site and the onus fall on the employer” Jay? I have a friend who owns a large group of car dealerships and he just let one Hispanic employee go when he produced a second driver’s license with a different name and social security number than that which he had applied for the job with. These were not even forged documents but the real thing acquired with phony SS numbers. House Democrats have defeated E-Verify, a computerized means of checking status and in relation to Obama’s health insurance plan TWICE voted down any mechanism whatsoever for checking immigration status. No wonder you opt for this to be an employer’s problem. That way you assure that there is NEVER a solution.

Report this
Liquor Store Larry's avatar

By Liquor Store Larry, May 18, 2010 at 11:15 am Link to this comment

One thing this thread will never be is a recruiting tool for socialists!

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 18, 2010 at 10:16 am Link to this comment

The term “illegal alien” should have substance, but it does not, for the rule of law is a joke and has been for some time the rule of las is used or ignored depending on the political powers that be.

For me the most obvious abuse was when Pelosi, said impeachment is off the table.

It remains to be seen who the players are in this, from the illegals themselves to the people who use their services or is it just typical politics at work and why again the rule of law is ignored?

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 18, 2010 at 8:09 am Link to this comment

After reading all the ranting and raving here, from what
I can see, only one poster has a viable solution of
sorts; Luis Magno.

But I have a much better plan, for all my unextensive
conclusions guide me to say….... the USA should make
Mexico a State of the Union.  But first it would be nice
if Mexico was able to control it’s crime rate. I claim
ignorance about Mexico’s crime rate, for it may be lower
than the average crime rate rate here in the USA? Now
everyone has seen the MSM coverage of Mexico crime and
all those stories about murdered girls and kidnappings in
Mexico City and everyone has heard about the Mexican
Police being on the take, the drug lords controlling
everything. To me this sounds like a shoe in for becoming
a state.

Mexico seems to have a corrupt government which
represents the same elite interests in Mexico that our
government represents here. Corporations have left USA
and moved to Mexico so why not tax them, well at least
until they move to Dubai? 

In the end, Mexico Dove Tails so well with the USA and
this would resolve the illegal problem for it would not
exist.  As for heritage as a problem,  it would become
between the state of Mexico and Texas and one thing I
like better, is I believe Mexico may be bigger than Texas
and would puncture the Texas blow hard ballon!

So, Viva the great State of Mexico!

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 18, 2010 at 7:42 am Link to this comment

Here are three examples irrefutable stereotypes:

1) Pygmies are little

2) Cannibals eat people

3) Latinos are not all criminals

4) All drunks are a-holes

5) LS Larry is a drunk

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 18, 2010 at 7:39 am Link to this comment

PH,

You have a good point. My opinion is that anybody who wants access to any jobsite should produce ID to prove work status. Not only should the responsibility for the personnel on site fall on the contractors but the law should extend to the owners of the job.

Many a time I’ve seen an immigration raid and seen the owners of the job come out of it with impunity by claiming that they were employees of the contractor. I feel that if you are the owner of a job that liability for the personnel on the job should be mutually shared.

If its your property, you’re cutting the checks to the contractor, you should now who’s on your jobsite. Usually these big money developers come out of clean and the contractor who’s just trying to make a living pays all the consequences because through the competitive bidding process your prices have been beaten down so much that that the only way you can be competitive is to resort to taken risks. Because of this I no longer bid on the big private jobs. I can’t compete with the guy who is bidding based on on a job based on labor rates using undocumented workers. So I do understand the problem.

I also know what being profiled feels like, so I feel I know what a legal Latino may feel amplified exponentially many times over. As a teenager in the late 60s-early 70s I had long hair like many of the other kids my age. Well I would get pulled over, physically patted down, have my car searched for no other reason than having long hair.

Sometimes the cops would see a couple of long hairs make a u-turn and search you. Other times if you would be waiting for the light they would pull you over and usually if you looked over you’ll be pulled over and searched. So of course of you saw a cop car and they saw you chances were that you’ll be pulled over and have your car searched. Of course I remember the feeling of anger and indignation that a Latino that can’t hide his ethnicity must feel.

For example if I get pulled over for a taillight and have a passenger who may be my wife or girlfriend or just a friend in the car whose appearance is of Latino ethnicity I feel that it is a violation of legal protocol that the officer should pat my passenger down for papers if I’m getting pulled over on the pretext of a bad taillight. Patting my passenger down has got nothing to do with the taillight and my passengers Latino appearance does not justify reasonable suspicion.

It is a violation of legal protocol and a simple and very fundamental right of citizens not being unduly harassed by authorities of a state. Isn’t that what we were taught in civics classes. We do not live in a police state and that is what these tactics are.  The Arizona laws open up the door for civil rights violation by police officer who themselves may have racial bias. We all know that police reports can be falsified to make it appear that the subject resisted arrest, was disorderly or any other pretext to detain, arrest and physically abuse you if the officer so desires, even if you are subsequently released with no charges because you played nice or could afford a good lawyer.

Fortunately for me when I had these experiences as a long haired teenager getting pulled over for sporting long hair I was never arrested, but I was handcuffed and slapped around, punched because of my indignation. All because being profiled for having long hair.

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 18, 2010 at 6:32 am Link to this comment

HA!

Horseass face aka as theA-hole Kid,

Dude, how old are you? My guess 15.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 18, 2010 at 4:33 am Link to this comment

First:
I’m not a Socialist, don’t believe in Socialism, and cannot point to a single example of where Socialism works.  But that has nothing to do with Jay’s point.

Here’s LSL:

Liquor Store Larry, May 18 at 1:24 am #

Jay - you say “it is not fair to stereotype an entire group of people”

The reality is - YOU MUST STEREOTYPE -  to avoid being ignorant and dishonest.

Here are three examples irrefutable stereotypes:

1) Pygmies are little
**************************************

Not a stereotype.  Pygmy is a definition and is a Western name for certain African tribes, such as the SW Bushmen. It comes from Jonathan Swift.

**********************************************
2) Cannibals eat people
**********************************************

Again, a description of an action.  One is not a cannibal if one doesn’t eat another human being.  There ARE stereotypes of cannibals—the missionary in the stewpot cartoon, but most cannibalism that has existed was ritualistic—the Aztec and Mayans practiced ritual cannibalism, but that doesn’t mean all Aztecs or Mayans are cannibals.

************************************************
3) Illegal aliens are criminals
************************************************

You need to review fundamental Law, both Constitutional and Common.  No person is a criminal until they have been convicted in a court of law.  Your statement is indeed a stereotype, but it is a totally false one, ESPECIALLY since we know that only a very, very tiny percentage of illegal aliens are actually convicted of any crimes.

**********************************************
You conclude by saying “they can deal with it but not by passing xenophobic laws”. Yet another gratuitous intellectually dishonest obstacle you place in the path of ANY SOLUTION WHATSOEVER - translation -  “You can deal with a foreign invasion as long is it does not disproportionately impact foreigners.

Did you guys learn logic from a Cracker Jacks box?
*************************************************

Clearly you did not understand this statement.  In World War II, we were attacked an invaded by Japan, in Pearl Harbor, in the Philippines, and in Alaska.  The response was an hysterical and illegal rounding up and internment of Japanese immigrants and their children, but there was no similar reaction to those connected to Germany or Italy, Japan’s two allies with whom we also went to war.

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 18, 2010 at 3:28 am Link to this comment

Jay1953,  I see what you are saying. I too would be disgruntled if I was to produce I.D. everytime I turned around but I live and work in Washington DC and my admission to many sites and projects compels me to, also to empty pockets and get scanned.

I have also traveled extensively in Mexico, Central and South America and being a green coat, I stood out and have had to produce passport and visa more than a few times.

It’s all in the enforcement and I’ll bet many police will choose to ignore the law due to the implications to the surrounding community, however, those militant la Raza types who like to hassle others will be put on notice,  better be an American criminal or else.

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 17, 2010 at 9:52 pm Link to this comment

Here are three examples irrefutable stereotypes:

1) Pygmies are little

2) Cannibals eat people

3) Illegal aliens are not all criminals

4) Larry the drunk is an a-hole

Report this
Liquor Store Larry's avatar

By Liquor Store Larry, May 17, 2010 at 9:24 pm Link to this comment

Jay - you say “it is not fair to stereotype an entire group of people”

The reality is - YOU MUST STEREOTYPE -  to avoid being ignorant and dishonest.

Here are three examples irrefutable stereotypes:

1) Pygmies are little

2) Cannibals eat people

3) Illegal aliens are criminals

You conclude by saying “they can deal with it but not by passing xenophobic laws”. Yet another gratuitous intellectually dishonest obstacle you place in the path of ANY SOLUTION WHATSOEVER - translation -  “You can deal with a foreign invasion as long is it does not disproportionately impact foreigners.

Did you guys learn logic from a Cracker Jacks box?

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 17, 2010 at 8:37 pm Link to this comment

PH

“BTW You seem to make a few of your own generalized stereotypical conclusive assumptions about anglos which I can disagree with, by simply reading your earlier posts.”

Its not fair to stereotype an entire group of people. So if you do it then it can be done back to you. I’m glad you took issue, which is the whole point. I don’t dispute your experiences as you described them, but my experiences are just as real and valid.

I’ll further state that all Latinos are not illegal either and you know that. So we can’t group them all together and make the good pay for the bad. Its like the rationale I subscribe to on the death penalty debate and why I oppose it. My main argument is that if there is the remotest of chances that a innocent man can be put to death, as recently publicized in Texas, then the death penalty should be abolished. Not because I don’t feel that some people don’t deserve it. There are people that do commit such heinous crimes that I think I would want to take them out myself.

Using that same reasoning if there is the remotest of chances that a Latino legally in this country can have his civil rights violated because of profiling, even if its just getting pulled over to verify legal status, then I’m against that law and will do whatever I can to have it overturned because it smells of racism and depriving another person of his freedom even if its only for 5 minutes. Those 5 minutes belong to the individual to use and dispose of in any way he chooses if that individual is not breaking the law and is being singled out because of ethnic appearance is not justice being applied equally. So no government official should have the a mandate to violate an individual right no matter how minuscule. Even if that Latino fits a a preconceived stereotype of what another individual thinks an undocumented alien is supposed to look like. Because reason tells you that if you looked white you would not be singled out.

Our system of justice is founded on the legal principle of equal treatment before the law as a basic fundamental even though it is not has not always been the case. Somewhere in civics classes when I was young I remember being taught that our system of government is fundamentally designed to protect the minority from the tyranny of of the majority. Where did that principle go? Socially it seems that we’re regressing instead of progressing.

In conclusion, not all undocumented commit serious felonies. Nor do they come here to steal, maim, rape and kill. The vast majority come to work, that’s a fact. The violence that Arizona is experiencing is due mainly to drug and arms trafficking and our war on drugs policy has a lot to do with the root cause and perpetuating the violence and criminal activity. Using oppressive tactics will not work.

I agree that no one should be here undocumented. The solution also lies in changing current laws that are not working. Man, we got so many problems as a society and its frustrating to see that the wounds are mostly self-inflicted.

I come in here like everybody else, to blow off steam cause I’m pissed off with all the shit that is going on and illegal immigration is on the bottom of the list for me. It’s something that can be dealt with but not by passing stupid xenophobic laws.

Report this
Liquor Store Larry's avatar

By Liquor Store Larry, May 17, 2010 at 6:17 pm Link to this comment

Poll: Nearly two-thirds back AZ law
Posted: Wednesday, May 12
————————-
A poll conducted by the Washington, D.C.-based, nonpartisan Pew Research Center indicated that 63 percent nationally support allowing police to question anyone they think may be in the country illegally and that 59 percent approve of Arizona’s new illegal-immigration law.
————————-
Poll Shows Most in U.S. Want Overhaul of Immigration Laws

LOS ANGELES — The overwhelming majority of Americans think the country’s immigration policies need to be seriously overhauled. And despite protests against Arizona’s stringent new immigration enforcement law, a majority of Americans support it, even though they say it may lead to racial profiling.

These are the findings of the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 17, 2010 at 4:40 pm Link to this comment

jay1953

“What gets me is the generalized stereotypical conclusive assumptions you make about Latinos”.

Sorry you think so, my beef is with the illegals and those who hire them.  The facts are that illegals cause a disproportionate amount of crime in regard to their numbers.

My family migrated here legally and it took years to do.  I am the first generation American in my family and proud of it.

There are no short cuts if you do things the right way.

BTW, You seem to make a few of your own generalized stereotypical conclusive assumptions about anglos which I can disagree with, by simply reading your earlier posts.

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 17, 2010 at 3:54 pm Link to this comment

PH, unfortunately I’m in an open shop state. Being originally from a closed shop state I can relate to what you are describing. I loved being in the union when I lived up north and went through their apprenticeship to become a Journeyman, but that was a long time ago. I’m in a vastly different market. So my experiences are vastly different than what you are describing. Those experiences are as I described them. I haven’t had those problems with my Latino workers and I’m sorry to hear that you have. The Unions down here aren’t worth shit. What gets me is the generalized stereotypical conclusive assumptions you make about Latinos. Being fluent in Spanish is a plus and has helped make my experiences with Latinos a very positive one. I can’t say the same for my EuroAmerican brethren.

As far as raising pay as you recommend my pay is generous and better than competitive for the market I am in. As a matter of fact my guys prefer to work for me rather than other contractors that gouge them. I’m fair, I pay on time and when I say I’m going to pay. Given the economic times though we are not as busy as we have been and I’ve lost people. I know there are abusive employers out there and that is why I support the unions. When Unions where strong America was at its greatest, but that’s just my opinion.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 17, 2010 at 3:05 pm Link to this comment

AK:

Success can be measured in many ways, some constructive, many destructive.  But if an individual fails to try, that is the ultimate failure.

It is certainly true that many kids are driven to deep depression and destructiveness if they are pushed.  But a wise parent attempts to instill good and consistent study habits early, engages the child in discussions and thought experiments, listens and encourages the child’s POV, and even learns from them.

Failure teaches kids, too.  In Batman, the question is asked: “Why do we fall down? So we can pick ourselves back up.” But failure to try teaches them nothing positive.

My father only wanted to know two critical things about my job: Was I happy doing it? Did the dirt wash off at the end of the day?  Nothing else mattered but to find happiness doing honest work.

The Army’s slogan was “Be the Best You Can Be”.  That’s all I want my kids to be—the best people they can, who can make an honest living and look in the mirror and like the guy that looks back at them.

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 17, 2010 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment

Well jay1953, I’m talking from experience as well.

As a union mechanical trades project manager who went through apprenticeship with local 602 in the mid eighties I am familiar with the “other trades” you speak of as I see them on the jobsites every day.

I have seen time and again non-union minority set asides who hire in the streets for workers to perform dangerous tasks as asbestos abatement or mindless drywall humping.  Out of 50, maybe 5 have a decent work ethic.  Many don’t speak english and you better hold on to your tools as they will walk away first chance.

Our union prevents the illegals from being hired on projects by vetting them before they are available for hire and the random urinalysis has been around for the past 10 years.  There are many fine latinos who do go through the apprentice program, show up every day and pay attention.  They are here legally and hold as much distain for the illegals as the other professionals do.

Reputation is a big thing in the mechanical trades and irregardless of where you come from, you have to have a solid base to begin.  You lay out, drink on the job (which threatens the safety of others) your out with little future in other companies as we talk to each other.

Maybe you should raise your pay and requirements and you would get good workers, go union and you would get the best ones including those over 30.

I look forward to the day when I can train a qualified latino who has the skills and education to do my job, until then I have to hire and fire them on their merits and illegal resident status is a disqualifier.

Report this
Liquor Store Larry's avatar

By Liquor Store Larry, May 17, 2010 at 12:37 pm Link to this comment

Thanks Arizona Kid - let’s face it, the supporters of illegal immigration have no choice but to obfuscate the truth because based on any honest evaluation of the facts they lose. “Playing the race card” worked just fine for OJ and it works just fine for ultra liberal politically correct Americans.

Jay, and Inherit The Wind, and some of the other liberal obfuscators say that Hispanics are not “taking American’s jobs” and driving down wages but Cesar Chavez KNEW they were and he himself opposed a massive influx of impoverished migrants because it prevented him from organizing the United Farm Workers. Maybe These Mechistas think this dynamic only applies to Anglo Americans or stopped working when Chavez died? LMAO This is precisely the type of truth that you will never see the open borders crowd even address on this site because they don’t want this to even enter your mind because once it does, there is no argument against it, it is just the truth.

Either Cesar Chavez was a racist or illegal aliens drive down wages and take jobs. There is no third choice.

Lying for “La Raza” just comes with the territory. The self righteous goons that brain wash themselves into ignoring or denying the “rape trees” and the Coyotes and the headless corpses that were found in Juarez this week and the Coyotes and the “drop houses” and and the Cartel hit men who live in every American city and the “E-coli” and the Tuberculosis and Syphilis that are resistant to anti-biotics that legal immigrants are screened for when they enter country legally or over a million sex crimes committed each year by illegals and the associated costs to our social institutions…... because they ONLY WANT YOU TO REMEMBER ONE THING

- “RACE” - - “RACE” - - “RACE” - - “RACE” - - “RACE” - - “RACE” - - “RACE” - - “RACE” - - “RACE” -

because that is the only card in their hand and if playing that card fails then America remains a sovereign country and they hate that.

Between 60% and 75% of Americans polled and every poll taken demonstrates that Americans support the recent Arizona legislation, not because it is perfect but because they are sick and tired of the federal government neglecting their constitutional mandate and giving rise to the lies I have referred to, perpetrated by those who make a life style of finding ways to weasel around our laws. Some think skinned reader had one of my posts deleted for using the same words that President Dwight D. Eisenhower used when he stood up for the rule of law and deported illegal aliens after WW2. They were taking jobs then, they were driving down wages then and they are doing both still and undermining the America standard of living. This is no less true today than it was during Ike’s time regardless of the lying rants of these professional obfuscators.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 17, 2010 at 10:56 am Link to this comment

jay1953, May 17 at 11:18 am #

Patrick Henry, I’m talking from personal experience. That’s why you white EuroAmerican exceptionalists are crying that Latinos are taking your jobs. You’re crying that because of hard working Latinos you white EuroAmerican exceptionalists can’t gouge a small business man like me with under-performance due to bad attitudes, bad work ethics and substance abuse. At least in my industry, which is construction, where I live its the way it is. Now the sit on you ass jobs like running the front loaders, bob cats, cranes and supply deliveries drivers you do see a bit more of ethnic variety. As you also see a bit more of the ethnic mix in the less labor intensive trades such as painting. But the sweat your ass off or out in the sun jobs of installing trusses, masons, slabs/flatwork, framing, drywall hang and finish, roofing, and ah! yes, landscaping (your personal favorite stereotype), its all Latinos in vastly significant numbers that are readily observable. So lets just agree that an efficient and workable guest worker program is needed.

******************************************

Jay is so right it’s scary. When I was a carpenter, 30-odd years ago, I NEVER had a problem getting a job, even when the econ times were HORRIBLE (which, in large part was why Carter lost).  Why did I get jobs? I showed up! On time! Everyday! Or let someone know why not.  I worked like a donkey and didn’t refuse any job, like working on a roof.  I saw, back then, guys who would take off for 2 weeks because of a hangnail (and too large a stash of grass he “had” to smoke).  I saw contractors and subs- going crazy because they never knew how many guys would show up on any day.  This was before the Latino “invasion” of the trades.  Some guys were good, hard workers, like me, but too many were just dumb fuck-offs.

Hardworking guys got and kept jobs.  Fuck-offs lost them.

Now, 6 states away from those days, I see the same damn thing—carpenters who come in reeking of booze, or who can’t be counted on to show up. 

But most of the Latin guys I see aren’t like that. They bust their butts, all of ‘em.  And not just the Hispanic guys—the Portuguese and Brazilians are the same way.  Hell, even the Albanian stone and tile masons are that way.

Funny thing: The Canadian Euro guys I see work their butts off just like the Latinos.  Wonder why….

BTW, in the high-tech businesses like software and in the public schools it’s the Asians, primarily Chinese and Indian, who are attacked in EXACTLY the same way as the Latinos are in the trades.  White kids complain bitterly about how “smart” the Asian kids are.  I’ll tell you why they are “smart”: They work their butts off.  My older kid does the same thing, and guess what?  He’s at or near the top in all of his classes.

It’s all about who is willing to bust his or her ass, and who thinks they have the “right” to just sit on it.

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 17, 2010 at 7:18 am Link to this comment

Patrick Henry, I’m talking from personal experience. That’s why you white EuroAmerican exceptionalists are crying that Latinos are taking your jobs. You’re crying that because of hard working Latinos you white EuroAmerican exceptionalists can’t gouge a small business man like me with under-performance due to bad attitudes, bad work ethics and substance abuse. At least in my industry, which is construction, where I live its the way it is. Now the sit on you ass jobs like running the front loaders, bob cats, cranes and supply deliveries drivers you do see a bit more of ethnic variety. As you also see a bit more of the ethnic mix in the less labor intensive trades such as painting. But the sweat your ass off or out in the sun jobs of installing trusses, masons, slabs/flatwork, framing, drywall hang and finish, roofing, and ah! yes, landscaping (your personal favorite stereotype), its all Latinos in vastly significant numbers that are readily observable. So lets just agree that an efficient and workable guest worker program is needed.

Now I didn’t call EuroAmericans lazy. You did, so if you say so it must be true. Now I know this hurts your perceptions of white privilege, exclusivity and Eurocentric exceptionalism but are these readily observable patterns for everyone to see.

Larry, there you go again. Talking while inebriated about things that are beyond your intellectual capacity to grasp. Next time you are in awe of our military prowess thank the socialist run armed forces. When you drive down a public road thank socialism. Next time you go to the public fireworks show thank socialism. If your parents have Medicare thank socialism. If there are minimum safety standards on your job thank socialism. Thank socialism for the 8 hour day. Thank socialism for guaranteed primary education for your kids. Thank socialism for our national parks. You can even thank socialism for that public water fountain next time you drink from one. Thank socialism for minimum building standards on the home you live in. The list is extensive and society demands that it keeps growing. So yes Larry, I can call guys you like asses and be totally justified.

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 17, 2010 at 3:59 am Link to this comment

RE:jay1953, May 17 at 1:24 am #

Funny how your xenophobic exceptionalism gets you to make assumptions that all EuroAmericans (White) tradesmen are lazy.

Maybe the state should check out your workers although I doubt landscaping has a requirement for state licencing.

Report this

By bogi666, May 17, 2010 at 3:54 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Patrick Henry, you’re just a shill for the Prison Industrial Complex [PIC] must be from where you get your information about law enforcement statistics.                                  Arizona Kid, I assume you’ve been to the USSR since you know so much about it. What existed there was Soviet Communism which is when the government own the means of production, a very bad idea doomed to fail in the long run. You must have studied economics as well according to your asstuteness about it. Why don’t you comment on the State Capitalism of the USA, where taxes on labor and withholding taxes support the CORPORATE WELFARE KINGS whom[the SCOTUS has proclaimed them person} create and then chase the Treasury bond proceeds for the Federal deficit with the interest and principle paid by individual taxpayers.

Report this
Liquor Store Larry's avatar

By Liquor Store Larry, May 16, 2010 at 10:10 pm Link to this comment

Imagine a guy with a Socialist logo telling anyone they are an ass. This guy is promoting a concept that has failed wherever on the planet it has been tried and thinks those smarter than he are “asses”.

THERE IS ALREADY A PATH TO CITIZENSHIP - IT IS CALLED LEGAL IMMIGRATION!

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 16, 2010 at 9:31 pm Link to this comment

Toot had to change his handle cause he looked like an ass. Hhahahaha!

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 16, 2010 at 9:30 pm Link to this comment

I never said I was in Arizona.

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 16, 2010 at 9:24 pm Link to this comment

Oh Patrick Henry, what an ass you are. How would you know if my workers are documented or not. For your information I have a fully licensed enterprise. Work comp audits you every year. Futa, Federal WH and the state UT are paid electronically. So as a consequence everybody on my payroll is legal and they have to show proof thereof.

Funny how your xenophobic exceptionalism gets you to make assumptions that all Latinos are undocumented.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 16, 2010 at 7:32 pm Link to this comment

Who needs a threatening, bulldozing and authoritarian personality to chat with? Not moi. Adios, farewell and adieu.
*********************************

Don’t let the door hit you in the face on the way out, Toot-Toot.

Changing your handle won’t hide you.

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 16, 2010 at 6:01 pm Link to this comment

jay1953,

You don’t have problems with the fringes, FICA, FUTA SUTA, Workmans Comp and SS taxes because as with so many employers of wetbacks they don’t pay them.

In Maryland you need to be licensed in your respective trade, it helps to be able to read and write english to understand plans and specs.

There is nothing wrong with a well regulated “guest worker” program, in fact it has been going on for along time.

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 16, 2010 at 5:57 pm Link to this comment

OMG! The horseass face knows something about genetic history. But your post only confirms what I just posted. Luisito take notice so you can better pick your friends. If you are Spaniard you’re just a Sephardic Jew. A descendant of marranos forced to convert to Christianity so they wouldn’t be deported from Spain or suffer the Inquisition.

Purely European, hahahaha! I do have European genes, maybe Goths, probably Sephardic, Berber and who knows what else is mixed in there. By golly my DNA tests even showed that I have Scandinavian blood. So by your pure European standards, I’m a mongrel like all Spaniards, most Europeans and definitely most Americans. Even the Germans are mongrels when they were overrun by the Barbarian hordes from the east. And lets not forget the orgy of rape by Soviet troops of the fair German damsels. How many of them gave birth to the child of Soviets soldiers when just about every German woman was gang banged by Soviet soldiers. But no my kin didn’t come with Columbus’s assassins, we were late comers to the New World. Mid to late 18th century. Like most Spaniards we were told we were Catholic and my father was devout. I’m not. I’m an unbeliever.

But you don’t need to know more than that.

What is intriguing is how all of the sudden you became very interested when the subject turned to race and genetics. So for guys like you the immigration debate is about race. So my closet racism assumption about you and others seems to be just about right.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 16, 2010 at 5:25 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry, May 16 at 9:18 pm #

Inherit The Wind,

My post wasn’t about Latinos, it was about illegal aliens.  You continue to read our own shit into others posts often incorrectly.

I’ve never vehemently denied I “hate” Jews, I don’t “hate” anyone. I am a critic of Israel and those jews who support it as an apartheid jewish state…......, simple.  Hardy a new position.

To identify as an atheist jew whose family came from Poland-Lithuania and resided there for 1000 years but has right of return to a country where their own post WWII relatives swarmed like cockroaches, displacing the local inhabitants both jew and arab alike, well I think your jewishness is all in your head.

I dislike obnoxious self appointed moderators like yourself who often exploit the fact that one of their adopted children is ethnically a latino like your child is some sort of merit badge for which you are fullfilling some braggarts checklist.

And I have been posting here longer than you.
************************************************

And the back-pedaling and waffling begins!

LMAO!

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 16, 2010 at 5:25 pm Link to this comment

Inherit the Wind,

You hit that one out of park with your last post. I’m a contractor in the building trades and I can vouch personally for what you just posted.

I don’t know what it is but few have been the times that I’ve gotten good help from a Euro-American worker. So most of my workers are Latinos. And believe me they are well paid and deservingly so. Many times if I do well on a job I will give them bonuses such as buying them a tool at my expense or buying them lunch or something of the sort. I know they like working for me and they work conscientiously and protect my interests on the project if I’m not around. The times I’ve hired Euro-Americans I’ve caught them smoking pot on their lunch time and on the job. What is it with the pot smoking at work? Others with alcohol on their breath. I’ve confiscated beer in their coolers and found empty beer cans on the jobsite and dumpsters. They are not as productive as the Latinos, they drag out the job and they get really testy and mouth off if you say something about it. It is very frustrating. I’ve also caught them stealing and padding out their hours. Anglo-Americans also have a knack for trying to game the system with with workers comp. and unemployment which screw up my ratings and increase my premiums. In general I don’t have these problems with my Latino workers so I have a great deal of respect for them.

I hate to say this about my fellow Americans but I just call it as I see it.

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 16, 2010 at 5:18 pm Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind, 

My post wasn’t about Latinos, it was about illegal aliens.  You continue to read our own shit into others posts often incorrectly.

I’ve never vehemently denied I “hate” Jews, I don’t “hate” anyone. I am a critic of Israel and those jews who support it as an apartheid jewish state…......, simple.  Hardy a new position.

To identify as an atheist jew whose family came from Poland-Lithuania and resided there for 1000 years but has right of return to a country where their own post WWII relatives swarmed like cockroaches, displacing the local inhabitants both jew and arab alike, well I think your jewishness is all in your head.

I dislike obnoxious self appointed moderators like yourself who often exploit the fact that one of their adopted children is ethnically a latino like your child is some sort of merit badge for which you are fullfilling some braggarts checklist.

And I have been posting here longer than you.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 16, 2010 at 4:47 pm Link to this comment

I’ve long insisted that Patrick Henry was a bigot who hated Jews.  He vehemently denied it, making all kinds of excuses.

Now we see him, yet again, stereotyping, only this time it’s Latinos, particularly illegal Hispanics.

And he’ll tell us again that he’s not a bigot….

As for Toot-toot, I give him two more weeks (at most) of his obnoxious crap before T.M. boots him and his picture of himself off TruthDig for inappropriate posting.

The other bigots here who detest Hispanics, however, won’t get booted.

I am not Hispanic, but my younger child is. Most Hispanics I see work like donkeys to make a better life for themselves, and usually much harder than their Euro-American counterparts in the same jobs.  Look at the home building trades and took to the contractors.  They will tell you the Spanish guys generally are more reliable, show up on time every day, work hard every day.  The Euro-American guys show up hap-hazardly, hung over, don’t work very hard, and sit on their butts if the boss isn’t watching. Then they bitch about Obama and the Democrats and immigrants when they lose their job to some Spanish guy who does it a hundred times better. I’ve seen it with my own eyes from my own days in the trades in my youth through the work on my own house as recently as the day before yesterday. Even the electrician: He’s a stupid lazy slob but his assistant, who is from…Ecuador??...is smart, hard-working and capable of figuring things out.

So bitch about the Mexicans, the Hispanics and the illegals. In the shitty jobs that nobody wants, they are the ones doing them, and doing them well!

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 16, 2010 at 4:29 pm Link to this comment

mrfreeze,

It’s in the article.

http://moneyteachers.org/Illegals.crime.htm

Enforce existing laws.

Hold employers more accountable, including the state ones.

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 16, 2010 at 4:18 pm Link to this comment

Patrick Henry if only we Americans can stop shoveling that white powder up our noses and stop smoking that loco weed the statistics would not be so out of kilter. Ah! but white privilege and American exceptionalism is to hypocritically blame the little brown men who come to work the fields picking oranges and tomatoes just so you can have orange juice with your McD’s Big Breakfast and tomatoes on your Whopper.

But these statistics is not reflective of the migrant who comes here to work to send money back home so that his kids can go to school wearing shoes and have something to eat. Legalizing drugs is a start to get the crime out of drug trafficking. We wouldn’t even have to import the marijuana, we can grow it right here stateside. Work permits is a second step cause most of these migrant workers don’t want to stay here anyway. They just want to make a buck and go home. Geez, Americans don’t want to pick strawberry’s for a living. This 2 simple changes would leave more resources to battle crimes against humanity like the trafficking of women and minors for prostitution. But noooo! We’re more concerned about some poor bastard trying to feed a bunch of little kids and old people in Mexico and Guatemala.

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 16, 2010 at 3:50 pm Link to this comment

You can skirt around the race issue but we know that is what is behind the anti-latino sentiment.

Luisito, I suggest you get DNA testing. You might be surprised, you may find you have some of that Mexican-Indian blood running through your veins.

I for one can say I’m pure Spaniard, whatever the fuk that means. I traced my paternal heritage to Asturias all the way to the 1820s. A paper trail of baptismal certificates and everything. Maternally I traced it back to the 18th century Extramadura. I and my sister did the DNA tests to verify it. Contrary to you I don’t feel that makes me any more special than the Mexican crossing the border. I only feel empathy and compassion for them.

Spaniards, Portuguese and Italians after all are the mongrels of Europe and there has always been an issue for them being accepted as genuine Europeans. And in Europe nationality and race has always been a big thing.

Thousands of years of migrations and invasions across the Mediterranean from northern Africa into Spain, Portugal and Italy makes us all from the same genetic pool as the ethnic Berbers and the occupants of what is now Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Libya. That is even without mentioning the extensive migrations and conquests during the Roma era. Of course then there was the 700 year Muslim conquest of 3/4 of the Iberian Peninsula which a few Arabs in the genetic pool, but most of the conquering hordes were North African Berbers. But the Berbers were already crossing the Straights of Gibraltar for 1000s of years. How many Spanish senoritas in a Muslim harem since it wasn’t unusual for conquerors to get their pick of the litter. You hear today how Spaniards argue for acceptance by arguing that they saved Christendom from the Mohammedan hordes. There too were the Roman deportations of Jews and other Semites from Palestine into Spain further diversifying the genetic pool. So poor Luisito trying to ingratiate yourself with Americans, who by the way are also a mongrel people, to gain their acceptance is pathetic. Have some dignity and self-respect man.

So it is all about race. I didn’t make this thread about race. Race is the gorilla in the room that none of the self entitled privileged excetionalists want to acknowledge is there. They are in absolute denial. So I’m calling it for what it is. I got too little hair on my head and too much on my back and balls “para que me metan los dedos a la boca”.

So Luisito, don’t try to join and be accepted in their little group of white closet racists. You’ll never be accepted beyond some lip service that they can argue that there are Latinos that agree with them. Don’t let xenophobes use you. You always will be just another spic to them.

Report this
mrfreeze's avatar

By mrfreeze, May 16, 2010 at 3:45 pm Link to this comment

Patrick Henry - I am sincerely curious about your list of statistics. Where does this information come from?

Also, I would like to know if you really believe AZ (or anyone else for that matter) could solve all the problems you list? Truly, I’d like you to tell us all how to stop all of these problems.

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 16, 2010 at 3:24 pm Link to this comment

CRIME STATISTICS:

95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.

86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.

75% of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.

24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

29% (630,000) convicted illegal alien felons fill our state and federal prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually.

53% plus of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.

50% plus of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens from south of the border.

71% plus of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California were stolen by Illegal aliens or “transport coyotes”.

47% of cited/stopped drivers in California have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 47%, 92% are illegal aliens.

63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegal aliens

66% of cited/stopped drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66% 98% are illegal aliens.

BIRTH STATISTICS 380,000 plus “anchor babies” were born in the U.S. in 2005 to illegal alien parents, making 380,000 babies automatically U.S.citizens.

97.2% of all costs incurred from those births were paid by the American taxpayers.

66% plus of all births in California are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

When I traveled abroad I carried my passport and visa, getting a job was out of the question and I ended up in more than one jail.

As much as the critics decry the Arizonian/Federal laws, they have nothing on the wild west law practiced from Mexico to patagonia.

Power to the residents of Arizona to determine their destiny, now enforce it and lets see how it works.

From 9/11 to border enforcement, black sites to extra-judicial assassination, the United States is failure as an example to the world.

Report this

By call me roy, May 16, 2010 at 3:21 pm Link to this comment

A LIST OF PENALTIES COMPRISED BY THE DEMOCRATIC AND SOCIALIST PARTIES FOR ILLEGAL INVADERS:

1 - A JOB,
2 - A DRIVERS LICENSE,
3 - SOCIAL SECURITY CARD,
4 - WELFARE,
5 - FOOD STAMPS,
6 - CREDIT CARDS,
7 - SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE,
8 - FREE EDUCATION,
9 - FREE HEALTH CARE,
10 - A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON
11 - BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE
12 - AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY THEIR COUNTRY’S FLAG WHILE TAKING THE AMERICAN FLAG DOWN WHILE PROTESTING THAT THEY DON’T GET ENOUGH RESPECT BECAUSE THEY INVADED AMERICA.

Report this
Luis Magno's avatar

By Luis Magno, May 16, 2010 at 3:01 pm Link to this comment

Once there is agreement on an immigration moratorium and on future limited immigration in exchange for ethno-cultural sovereignty for each recognized ethno-racial group (including the European-Americans) the amnesty problem is, in principle, solved.

Residents here illegally would go to the back of the line and be included in future ethnic, racial and country immigration quotas based on Census 2010 racial, ethnic and country-of-origin data. The current U.S. demographic profile would be preserved.

In return Hispanics will gain linguo-cultural rights. Whites (mixed-race Anglos) already have linguo-cultural rights. European Americans would gain ethno-racial rights and the necessary tools to combat the hatred and the racism of mixed-race Hispanics (Latinos) and mixed-race Anglos (Whites).

For the European-American majority the alternative in the long run is cultural, ethnic and racial death. Time is not on their side.

http://spanishamericans.webs.com/

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 16, 2010 at 2:49 pm Link to this comment

A death in the Desert

Report this

By REDHORSE, May 16, 2010 at 1:54 pm Link to this comment

LUIS MAGNO: Please say more!! I’ll check out the site for sure. Sorry to be so angry—I feel we were doing pretty well before the “politically correct” started the racecard wedge. And, I do believe the racecard is an airball. I also believe professional latino politicos are exploiting the “illegals” issue and have no more real concern for Americans or latinos than so called white politicians.

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 16, 2010 at 1:46 pm Link to this comment

AMNESTY NOW!! LEGALIZE THE UNDOCUMENTED NOW!! JAIL RACIST THUGS NOW!!

Report this

By REDHORSE, May 16, 2010 at 1:34 pm Link to this comment

Culture as an ideal and/or as a reality are two separate things. Only 50% of students in my state graduate. Drug and gang culture are such a part of our reality that the actual water supply for one of our cities tested positve for Heroin. My grandsons face is scarred from unprovoked assault. My 15 year old granddaughter was drugged and raped at a party. Some of our nice latino kids recently tried to kill a little black boy in the school parking lot because, well, because he was black. Assault of latino kids for being “too white” is common. Hell they actually beat a boy to death at another high school. I suspect that our nice liberal journalist send their children to private schools. It is a travesty that latino politicos that are playing the “racecard” as a wedge for their own ends. Our schools have failed. ARIZONA has a right to attempt to create unity in its’ schools. The liberal elite and racists latinos don’t give a %#ck about our schools, they just want to get over.Hardworking Americans of all colors are fighting for survival. Mr. Robinson is just another paid corporate spinner getting a check on Friday. NO AMNESTY EVER!! GET LEGAL OR GET OUT!! JAIL CORPORATE THUGS NOW!!

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 16, 2010 at 1:16 pm Link to this comment

Here in Washington DC we have the “no comprendes” on the jobsite, usually working for the non-union demo, drywall or asbestos abatement contractor.  Failure to speak english in a hazardous working environment is a basic safety violation in my book and those contractors utilizing such labor should be fined out of existence and thrown in jail.

Theft is rampant, (don’t let your tools out of your sight) and even the black and white tradesmen marvel on how these workers don’t even try to assimilate into our culture here.

Report this

By REDHORSE, May 16, 2010 at 12:04 pm Link to this comment

My city has a Spanish Heritage Cultural Center that produces some of the best presentations and lectures in art, music and culture in America. I always feel welcome there. This benefits all Americans. These kinds of presentations and studies in school are fine with me. What I don’t like, and suspect Arizonans don’t like is studies hijacked by latino,Marxist,separtist,militant,racists with an agenda. Kneejerks love to paint all whites as having a KKK mentality but refuse to believe there is a latino equivalent. Or if they do,justify it.

Report this

By REDHORSE, May 16, 2010 at 11:43 am Link to this comment

“Illegal” immigration has brought violence and crime. It has weakened and/or destroyed our social structures (look at California) and created a black market underground that kills an American every day. Endless “illegal” immigration promises a tomorrow filled with millions of uneducated youth with no future. Again, isn’t this where our terrorist friends in the Middle East find recruits.

      Of course oue Socialist friends are starting early with their “overthrow Fascist America” (white people bad) propaganda with no concern for the violence now underway. They are as visionless as our thug friends in Washington. I’m angry. I don’t like being assaulted and I don’t like being spit on. I don’t like being painted as a “racist” because I believe in legal immigration.

Report this

By REDHORSE, May 16, 2010 at 11:17 am Link to this comment

No one has a problem w/legal immigration. No one has a problem w/hard working Mexicans. No one has a problem w/cultural studies in school. Every child should be taught a real “peoples history” of America. They should understand that our struggle for unity and freedom has a political darkside as well as a light one. That men and women of all races have stood together and paid w/their lives for a better nation. Also, that America is no more or less bloody and hatefull than any other nation.

    This attempt to whitewash (pun intended) all Americans and the nation itself as totally racist and hatefull just because they’d like legal immigration law enforced is laughable. Our L.A. friends are so patriotic they want to see a sister state financially destroyed (white Arizonans in particular). The only place I ever hear the “racecard” is in the mouths of racists latino organizers and on the lips of the liberal spinmiesters of professional victimhood. Again, my personal experience here in the Southwest is that these people could care less about hard working Mexicans.

Report this
Luis Magno's avatar

By Luis Magno, May 16, 2010 at 11:03 am Link to this comment

There is an intelligent way to peacefully resolve the immigration problem to the satisfaction of all patriotic Americans. It entails a principled compromise, to wit, limited immigration in exchange for ethno-cultural sovereignty for each recognized ethno-racial group. The biggest winners will be European Americans (both Anglo and Hispanic) and time is not on their side.

For imperial historical reasons European Americans are the least organized as a politically viable ethno-cultural entity. We are entering the age of the mixed-bloods. Soon a majority of Americans will be of mixed-race descent. The accusation of “white racism” can no longer be allowed to pollute our national political discourse nor continue to drive an ethnicidal dynamic against Europeans as a race and as a people.

For European Americans organizing as a politically viable ethno-cultural entity is an existential imperative, a matter of group and individual survival. Latinos (mixed-race Hispanics) with their racist and unpatriotic rhetoric have aroused a Caucasian tiger. They would do well to change their rhetoric and start acting and talking like Americans. This is 2010 not 1848.

http://spanishamericans.webs.com/

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 16, 2010 at 10:30 am Link to this comment

Horseass face,

My avatar was selected with dummies like you in mind. Soooo, Einstein, how do you like me now?

Obviously you didn’t put much thought into choosing an avatar. Your avatar is representative of what you are, an a-hole. Jajajaja.

Mine is representative of my socialist beliefs.

You wasted a lot of time typing crap I have no inclination to read cause its coming out of the hole on your face shown on your avatar. Gafaaawww! Hahahahah! Jajajaja!

Later Junior.

Report this

By bogi666, May 16, 2010 at 9:21 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Texas, which wants to secede from the U.S., and makes most of the text books for the USA has eliminated Thomas Jefferson from U.S. history so what Arizona is doing is in concert with the revisionist history which is fashioned by what the old USSR did under Stalin and Germany did under the NAZI’s so that put Texas and Arizona in their good company and a model for the USA to follow.

Report this
mrfreeze's avatar

By mrfreeze, May 16, 2010 at 8:17 am Link to this comment

I grew up in UT in the 70’s. There wasn’t (and probably isn’t) a “whiter” place (perhaps Vermont is). EVEN then, the culturally retarded Mormon masters recognised that teaching us about different cultures and recognizing that there are some very long traditions of immigration and race problems in this country was important. Even those bone-heads got it right. Well, at least back then they did.

Today, what we are witnessing is the last, desperate attempt of the white (almost not) majority to flex it’s atrophied muscles against immigrants. What’s ironic is that AZ has become the battle ground of this ridiculous xenophobe party. Backward, relatively poor and a lousy example of American values even in good times. What interesting times we are living in.

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 16, 2010 at 8:01 am Link to this comment

Larry, Larry, Larry. At least you’re attempting to have a intelligent discussion unlike HorseAss Face. I mean that as a compliment.

So it seems that you’re for home schooling. Well there’s an old adage that racism is learned at home. And we can see the results with you. Not too good.

Cultural studies are not separatist classes, they are classes that teach realities that your lily white revisionist narratives have conveniently omitted to perpetuate white privilege. Cultural studies is good for everybody, including you and your kids. How else can the US come to peace with itself? By hiding truths the way you want? I don’t think so. So we need to take the good with bad Larry. This is why I believe that cultural studies should be taught to all kids regardless of race, culture, ethnicity, etc. We need to learn about ourselves and other people that may not look quite like you and have a different heritage in their background. I don’t have the xenophobic panic and fear that you have.

The purpose of school is to educate not indoctrinate as has been the case in the past. You seem to feel more comfortable with the indoctrination inclined to a white privileged society. An indoctrination we have received since the founding of the US. Culture does needs to come from school, not exclusively, but today’s working parents in general are doing a horrible job with their kids because they live stressed and overworked. So school has become an important part of the picture but the concept of a school is not to be a daycare.

Culture comes from society as a whole. This is the culture we take home, not the other way around. Cultural studies should not just be compartmentalize just to kids of a specific culture but to all. We all need to know about other peoples who are our neighbors and fellow countrymen so we may have a more cohesive union.

As to communism I suggest you read up on what communism is cause you don’t seem to have a clue. If you understood what communism is you would not throw the word around so loosely as a buzzword.

So no one that I know of wants to overthrow the government except those right wing seditious fanatics who join those anti-government right wing militias. People that may be more compatible to your ideological views than mine. You see government can be a force for good. Leftists, and I speak for myself, believe in government, good government, effective government whose objectives is to serve the people not multi-national corporations. So leftist don’t want to overthrow the government but instead want to work within the existing institutions to effect positive change. I don’t want small government, I want smaller corporations.

So there is a lot prejudicial superstition on your conclusions. The US is changing and it will keep changing. It is a dynamic country. Those of you that try to resist this change will eventually be swallowed up.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 16, 2010 at 7:00 am Link to this comment

Your pure racism is out of control:

Liquor Store Larry, May 16 at 10:36 am #

“cultural studies”? “xenophobia”? Is this what you honestly believe is taught in these separatist classes? If so then maybe you have never been in one. First of all, culture should come from the home, not from school. School is supposed to teach reading and writing and math and practical skills. Not promote communism and overthrow of the government and a return to Aztlan etc. Calling what is actually taught in these racist classes “culturally studies” is like calling Jeffrey Dahmner a vegetarian. I got your cultural studies right here—> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGqPo5ofk0s

Perhaps we should outlaw all studies in History Departments that don’t focus on the good ol’ USA.  Do away with European, African, Asian, and ESPECIALLY Latin and South American history programs.

If it ain’t Plymouth Rock, it’s all a crock, eh, LSL?

You have no idea what you are talking about except for your rampant hatred of Latinos.

And then there’s the old standby: “Commie!” for ANYONE who doesn’t advocate John Birch Society fascism.  Come into the 21st Century: With all the Communist and Socialist regimes having collapsed, calling someone “Commie” or “Socialist” just doesn’t have the same impact.

Report this
Liquor Store Larry's avatar

By Liquor Store Larry, May 16, 2010 at 6:39 am Link to this comment

The commie has removed his disguise!

Report this
Liquor Store Larry's avatar

By Liquor Store Larry, May 16, 2010 at 6:36 am Link to this comment

“cultural studies”? “xenophobia”? Is this what you honestly believe is taught in these separatist classes? If so then maybe you have never been in one. First of all, culture should come from the home, not from school. School is supposed to teach reading and writing and math and practical skills. Not promote communism and overthrow of the government and a return to Aztlan etc. Calling what is actually taught in these racist classes “culturally studies” is like calling Jeffrey Dahmner a vegetarian. I got your cultural studies right here—> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGqPo5ofk0s

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 16, 2010 at 5:11 am Link to this comment

Trying to block illegal immigrants is one thing (although I think Federal Law makes it the Fed’s job) but trying to do away with cultural studies, particularly of our neighbor to the South, is nothing but pure Jim Crow racism.  It is an attempt to de-legitimize the effects of Latin American culture on us all.  What’s next? Forcing all the Chili’s restaurants to become Ketchup’s and serve burgers instead of tacos? Outlawing translations of Gabriel Garcia Marquez?

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 15, 2010 at 9:17 pm Link to this comment

Hahahaha!

Or better yet,

Jajajaja!

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 15, 2010 at 11:36 am Link to this comment

Horseass, the undocumented will eventually be legal. So they’ll be staying. You’re the one that may wind up wanting to leave when that happens. I’ll gloat. That’s what my crystalball says.

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 15, 2010 at 11:26 am Link to this comment

No the issue in this thread is not illegal immigration. It’s ethnic studies. The exceptionalist are the race baiters and trying to turn everu issue to immigration is a disguise for overt racism. Pandering to legal Latinos will not camouflage racism.

And if the anti-Latino xenophobia bankrupts Arizona I’ll be the first one out there celebrating.

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 15, 2010 at 11:15 am Link to this comment

For chrisakes Larry, put down the bottle. Stay out of the liquor store. Its affecting your reading comprehension.

I never said anything about undocumented foreigners showing up at protest with guns. So what the fuk are you talking about? I believe the phrase I used was Americans of Latino descent which as you and I know may appear “different” than the “exceptionalists”. You’re right in theory there should be no distinction made between gun toting Teabaggers and gun toting Latinos. But come on Larry don’t try to hide behind the theory by pretending you’re stupid and expecting everybody else to buy into the stupidity.

Let’s remember what happened in this country when thousands of unarmed Afro-American protesters showed up at the Civil Rights rallies in the 60s. You may have been too young to remember Larry but you can watch the film clips. There you can see the authorities that have sworn to serve and protect beating their fellow citizens with clubs, releasing attack dogs on them, water cannons, murders of civil rights activists by people who thought just like you Larry. And yes Larry these were Americans even though they were black, a fact that you probably have had no choice but to accept. And Mexican-Americans are citizens just like you Larry a fact that you are having a hard time to accept even though I know you will pander and deny it with words. But what is really in your heart? How short is that exceptionalist memory of yours. The racism has always been there bubbling under the surface, in the closet. All it took to flush you guys out like cockroaches was the election of an Afro-American president. You know it and I know it and so does everyone else.

And come on stop being so disingenuous Teabaggers already call Latinos wetbacks, beaners spics. 

Seems like a stint on the receiving end will do you good.

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 15, 2010 at 10:56 am Link to this comment

My parents came in at Ellis Island and waited 6 years before they became naturalized. 

My uncle just spent 12 years going through the process and is now living in Arizona so I’m sure he could give a rats ass to the plight of those attempting to bypass the system so many have had to endure to become citizens of this nation.

It is important that these “new” citizens can read, write and speak the language of their new home and know some of the history, good and bad, which brought us all here. 

A nice long vetting process is also warranted to weed out the criminals, insane and health risks which add to the already agressive American public.

Report this
Liquor Store Larry's avatar

By Liquor Store Larry, May 15, 2010 at 9:48 am Link to this comment

Hats off to Redhorse. I don’t think it can be said any better than that!

Report this

By REDHORSE, May 15, 2010 at 9:26 am Link to this comment

I see the haters and racebaiters have kneejerked the thread. The issue is “illegal” immigration and the crime, gang, murder and black market landscape it has created in Arizona and in my hometown. I’m sick of personal violence and threat. So are the folks in Az.

      Having bankrupted California latino leaders in L.A. feel Az. should be next. Immigration reform without amnesty should be next.If Mr. Costa and his buddy Socialist Jay are such big fans of Pancho and Che they can hop a bus and be fighting the Mexican Fascist Genocide in Chiapas by this time next week. As far as culture war, I don’t need militant,Marxist,separtist, racist, professional victimhood taught in the schools. The “racecard” and the people who play it should be ashamed.

    NO AMNESTY EVER!! GET LEGAL OR GET OUT!! JAIL THOSE WHO EMPLOY ILLEGAL NOW!!

Report this
Liquor Store Larry's avatar

By Liquor Store Larry, May 15, 2010 at 9:09 am Link to this comment

jay1953 - “drunk” or sober, one must be rigorously honest, a skill which evades you Jay. You use the classic ploy of them all and refer to “Latinos showing up armed” as if there is no distinction between those AMERICAN CITIZENS of Latin decent and those who swim the river or pay a coyote. Illegal aliens who SNEAK into the country HAVE NO 2nd amendment rights. Is it any wonder you are so confused? Without interjecting such intentional confusion you have no argument at all. You call those who are in fact dissatisfied with our current government “tea baggers” but probably would not like being called a “beaner” or a “wetback”. American citizens, both Anglo American citizens and Hispanic American citizens are sick and tired of your duplicitous bullsh*t and I have news for you, on this issue, this president knows what side his bread is buttered on and there will be no amnesty this year and after November all bets are off.

Report this

By sharonsj, May 15, 2010 at 7:49 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

All this screaming and yelling about illegals and such, when the headline is about ethnic studies, is confusing to me.  You should not need a class in school to teach you about your heritage—your family is supposed to do that.  I don’t hear complaints about this law from the Armenians, the Polish, the Italians, etc.  Wouldn’t this law apply to them as well, or is only the Latinos who are taking offense?

As for the immigrant problem, the problem is not immigrants but illegal aliens who are flooding the country.  We don’t know how many there are and our government not only has no clue but does little to stop the flood.  California and Arizona are having severe difficulties dealing with and paying for the illegals, and it is absolutely true they are bringing down wages.  However, instead of going after them, the state should be going after the employers.

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 15, 2010 at 7:24 am Link to this comment

So according to the right not even the supposed “victims” can complain about having their right to fair and equal treatment denied. They use buzz words like victimization and turn it into some lefty conspiracy. So civil rights violation doesn’t really exist, it just a conspiracy of the left. Jim Crow didn’t victimize anybody. Apartheid didn’t victimize either. Neither did the Nazis victimize Jews, Gypsies and Slavs. No, according to the reasoning of the right everyone is a willing participant to their exceptionalist superiority. The oppressed need to thank the oppressors for their victimization.

What do you think would happen if next time there is a protest in Arizona against this law that all Americans of Latino show up armed exercising their 2nd Amendment rights? Would they be well received like the recent anti-Obama protesters showing up armed? What would have happened if the million man march on DC a million black men showed up armed? Do you think there would have been a heavy police presence? Maybe even the National Guard? But have 3000+ Teabaggers show up armed and wait a minute these are just normal everyday American citizens exercising their constitutional rights. This is an example of what exceptionalism is.

What gets me about the right is their lack of empathy, their lack of humanity, their lack of compassion, their hate, their exceptionalism, their lack of seeing the big picture long term. Fascism is live and well in the United States of America and being cultivated by the right.

Report this

By Robert B, May 15, 2010 at 3:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This latest law against teaching Latino history in Az on the heels of the ‘papers, please’ anti-latino law they just passed, can only serve one purpose; the angry white mob in Arizona wants to fan the flames of Mexican/AMERICAN resentment to the point of civil disobedience in Arizona. Which will spill over to California as well. They are simply putting a match to a powder keg to create the race wars that these neo nazi m****f****ers have wetdreams about.

Nobody actually believes that just because some whites decide to try denying Latino heritage in Arizona, that the Latinos won’t teach it to their children themselves. But this time they’ll teach it with more Mexican Pride than a Caza de la Raza editorial!

False Flag incidents to create excuses for war is all these facist pigs know!

And with the unpopularity of the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan, they (John McCain & his LOSERS) don’t care if they start a nice big race war right here in America!

The only silver lining I see, is that these stupid, reactionary neocons are the laughing stock of the nation, as is the Tea Party movement. They are ignorant, frightened little bullies who create nothing but trouble for the country.

Why is that for the past 8 years until he left office, Bush & his cronies did NOTHING to stem illegal immigration?

Because his corporate criminal buddies get RICH off the backs of the illegal slave labor class in this country.

These new anti-Latino laws in Arizona are nothing but a cruel joke on Latino society. Let us just hope that cooler heads prevail until the courts can strike these insane laws from the books as unconstitutional…and INCINDIARY!

Shame on you, Arizona GOP & Tea Party racists!

Shame you to HELL!

Report this
G.Anderson's avatar

By G.Anderson, May 14, 2010 at 11:34 pm Link to this comment

Unfortunately, turning people into victims and then, using that victim status, doesn’t help them much.

People don’t enjoy being turned into victims by the left, to justify, one more time, that phony sense of outrage, that makes the left feel entitled to it’s sense of moral superiority over the right.

Because once you turn people into victims that jusify’s your condescension.

Many people in Arizona, including some Mexican american’s are concerned that their losing what they came here to find.

Unfortunately, most of the solutions that are being offered, are short sighted reactions, and not solutions.

Like it or not, Mexico and the United States are Married. It can either be a happy marriage or a bitter divorce. A bitter divorce that is tough to live with. Or a Happy Marriage that makes everyone feel good.

Right now we need to look around for ways to make our marriage work, instead of turning people into one more class of victims.

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 14, 2010 at 11:28 pm Link to this comment

Liquor Store Larry, put that bottle down son.

Now, you know very well from your AA meetings that the first thing you need to do is admit that you have a problem so you can address it.

We can’t begin to help you until you’re willing to help yourself son. Your only hurting those who love you.

Everybody recognizes a drunk except a drunk.

This is the point with exceptionalism. Like a drunk who doesn’t recognize he’s an alcoholic many Americans don’t recognize exceptionalism or flat out deny it. American exceptionalism is Manifest Destiny gone wild with its subtle racist connotations and notions of national privilege. In the past it was out in the open but after all we are such a noble people that we found it in our hearts to free the slaves but we got Jim Crow, but we kept slaughtering the red man to take his land because after all we Americans are special and had more of a right to their land than they did, because we are Americans? After all isn’t the Arizona law an attempt to make them, Latinos, be like us? And if they can’t be like us they don’t have the right to be here or at the very least they have to be submissive as African slaves once were.

Somehow if people are different their lives are worth less than an American life. Like the body counts and kill ratios during the Vietnam War.

“Today in Vietnam 500 Viet Cong guerrillas were killed (gooks, but most were really unarmed civilians) in raging firefight on the outskirts of DaNang. There were 10 US soldiers killed”. Subtle message: the kill ration was 50 to 1. So 1 American life is worth 50 Vietnamese. This is blatant exceptionalism put in subtle form. Yep there were over 4000 US soldiers killed in Iraq, but its okay because we killed 300,000 Iraqis. Subliminal message: we killed more of them than they killed ours with a kill ration of 75 to 1. By golly we are getting better. This mindset is undeniable exceptionalism.

Even the Constitution was written only for Americans that are white like us. Of course slaves and Amerindians were excluded initially from such a noble enterprise. And you’re not covered if you’re not American even if you are in American custody. Because you’re different you’re not entitled to Habeas Corpus. And by golly many Americans think we have the right to torture those that are different. Even if you’re a citizen those who purport to defend the Constitution are the first that want to make exceptions because that citizen is different. We can just go on giving examples but its like trying to reason with a drunk, an exercise in futility. A waste of time.

Exceptionalism is all around us. Open your eyes.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 14, 2010 at 9:05 pm Link to this comment

What do the policies of the Mexican government against Guatemalans have to do with how WE see Mexican immigrants, legal and illegal, and Americans of Mexican descent?

And, lest we forget, Mexico is a HUGE country, bigger than France or Germany by a long shot.

My younger child is Guatemalan, so I am far more sympathetic to Guatemalans, than Mexicans.

Yet I see that Mexicans who come here, or Americans whose parents or grand parents came here, are some of the hardest working people IN America!

Report this
Liquor Store Larry's avatar

By Liquor Store Larry, May 14, 2010 at 7:47 pm Link to this comment

Gerard - “exceptionalism”??? You have got to be kidding. We are the least exceptionalist country in the world and the least exceptionalist in the history of the world. Are you blaming America for Mexico’s corrupt government? It is liberal useful fools like you that use high fallootin terms like “exceptionalism” that were created and designed precisely to be placed in the mouths of those as naive as you for the precise purpose of obfuscating the real causes and shifting the blame to everyplace but where it actually belongs so that they can go forth like robots repeating this hog wash. Exceptionalism? Paaaaaaaaaaaaaleeeeeeeeeeeeez!
Grow up!

Report this

By gerard, May 14, 2010 at 4:26 pm Link to this comment

Laine:  “Once an injustice as egregious as the folly being perpetrated in Arizona is exposed,it’s like lancing a boil. A lot of fairly gross stuff seeps out and then healing can begin. People may even start to question why Mexico bleeds people into the US. I venture to suggest that illegal immigration from Canada or France is not a huge problem. I wonder why not? I dare to suggest that maybe a rapacious culture of greed and exploitation internationally has torn the most deprived and vulnerable people worldwide loose from their national moorings and sent them like beggars scavenging for a living. What should they do ? Die? Disappear?It would be so much more convenient if they did. I mean why do they continue to plague their wealthy neighbour with their inconvenient attempts to work and live?Don’t they see that this country which was wrested from its owners a good bit of time ago now belongs to angry Caucasians?If they had any sensitivity at all they would just melt into the woodwork ,after (of course) vacuuming and dusting it and then cutting the grass in the back yard.”—thanks for that!

Jay1953:  “The American disease of exceptionalism must be eradicated. The US must become a country that practices inclusivity instead of exclusivity. It is the only path to peaceful social harmony.”—and thanks for that!

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 14, 2010 at 2:45 pm Link to this comment

Human sacrifice has been practiced by all societies. The methodlogy may vary but killing people in pursuit of a belief or a goal is still human sacrifice. By golly we still practice it today. We just give it different names like collateral damage. Casualties. Body counts. Executions.

The human sacrifice of over 4000 of our young men in Iraq. The human sacrifice of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. The human sacrifice still going on in Afghanistan of not just our own but innocents. The human sacrifices of innocent natives to usurp their land.

Yep we practice human sacrifice even today so you got no room to criticize the Aztecs. So get off your moral high horse. Take the sand out of your own eyes before telling others about sand in theirs.

Report this

By Jason, May 14, 2010 at 2:18 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I do not understand this!  People are going to learn of their heritage anyways!  So why put it off until one becomes an adult?  I believe that this law attempts to serve that purpose!

Denying kids REAL history has been happening for quite some time now in the USA.  For example, I did not know that Christopher Columbus was a genocidal madman until I was much older.  Instead, kids were taught that Christopher Columbus “discovered” what was then called “the new world.”  An obvious falsehood!

Perhaps the Governor of Arizona realizes that she will not be elected!  Evidently it is not a good thing when minorities learn about why they are such in the USA according to scumbag scraggly nasty people like the Governor of Arizona.  Yeah the USA did double-cross Mexico 160 years ago.  Ok?  Granted, that has nothing to do with people today - but there is resentment for that in Mexico right now.  Ok? 

How would USA citizens feel if New England all of the sudden was forfeited to Canada or that Florida was annexed to Venezuela?  USA citizens would not like that scenario too well I would imagine!  What’s the problem USA citizens?! You are unable to handle a day of reckoning because it interrupts your American Idol and Glenn Beck TV shows?

The citizens of Arizona have chosen to create an unjust society!  Rest assured, the citizens of Arizona will inevitably be punished for having such an infestation of conservatives living there.  These boycotts and ruined reputations are what the citizens of Arizona deserve for electing right-wing fascist extremists in political office anyhow!  The citizens of Arizona will economically suffer for being so foolish.  I will be laughing at them too once they have reaped what they have sown!  grin

Report this

By velville in decatur, May 14, 2010 at 12:12 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

jay1953, you jest when you praise the Aztecs but fail to include human sacrifice as a part of their quiver of “civilised” behaviour.

No, we cannot bring our evaluation to modern times because we must put it into the context of the time of the Aztecs.

Yes, in some ways the Aztecs (and other ancients) knew things that because of the interference of the Church and others, we are recently rediscovering.

That said, auto de fie for religious purposes, or tossing fair maidens into volcanoes or on to pyres to satisfy the Sun God is not acceptable behavior.

So stop the foolishness.

Report this
jay1953's avatar

By jay1953, May 14, 2010 at 12:02 pm Link to this comment

Talking about heritage. The Mexicans had it when the Anglos and other Europeans where still swimming in the Sh!t of their open sewers in Europe. The Aztecs knew the world was round while Anglos still though the earth was flat.

Heritage? That’s why American culture has nothing to offer except what the they steal, borrow and plagiarized from others. That’s why Americans can’t stand even eating their own insipid and bland food. They have to go eat tacos cause American can’t even stand themselves. They are self-hating ignoramuses.

What culture is there for Americans if they are hell bent on deculturalization of other peoples and turn everyone into a-holes like themselves.

Report this
Liquor Store Larry's avatar

By Liquor Store Larry, May 14, 2010 at 11:21 am Link to this comment

The same Jack Asses who wish to boycott Arizona support Hamas and send their college students to China to learn without regard to Tibet. We have a name for folks like that ... they are in a word “stupid”. I am very glad that Eugenio has a positive image of Mexico however if 1/10th of what he said was true, these Cholos would be protesting in Mexico where they would be shot by the great “Pancho Villa’s” decedents. LMAO Nice try though. Let me conclude by just saying pinche cabron senor! Aside from the Burrito and one or two other worthwhile items, “Mexican heritage” is almost an oxymoron!

Report this

By Eugenio Costa, May 14, 2010 at 10:47 am Link to this comment

Pancho Villa didn’t drink alcohol.

He was not against it but found it metabolically unpleasant.

He was a great dancer—often dancing through the night.

He grasped fiat currency in the flash of an eye and then instituted it.

He made a fool of Pershing and the US army.

He contracted out with Hollywood film-makers to film one of his own live battles, becoming Mexico’s and the world’s first and greatest and bravest surrealist.

He was indirectly a key to the Americans’ helping win World War II against the Germans on the Second Front in the person of George S. Patton, a lieutenant in the Mexican war who studied Villa closely and learned from him more than he learned at West Point.

He had many wives.

His only real defeat was at the hands of another Mexican who trapped him with his own bravery and bravado and that of his men, but even then he learned.

Pancho Villa was not his given name.

He adopted from the previous leader of a small band of banditos he turned into revolutionaries.

He respected learning, though he had been deprived of it as a child, and tried to learn as much as he could always.

He watched a bullfight in the US with Damon Runyon, a veteran of the war in the Philippines, while the whole US was looking for him in Mexico.

Report this

By Eugenio Costa, May 14, 2010 at 10:28 am Link to this comment

The whiner projects his or her own whine.

Guevara’s gratitude was genuine.

He was laughing at Kennedy.

And the world needs a good laugh by its Guevaras now and then.

Report this

Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 >

 
Right 1, Site wide - BlogAds Premium
 
Right 2, Site wide - Blogads
 
Join the Liberal Blog Advertising Network
 
 
 
Right Skyscraper, Site Wide
 
Join the Liberal Blog Advertising Network
 

A Progressive Journal of News and Opinion   Publisher, Zuade Kaufman   Editor, Robert Scheer
© 2014 Truthdig, LLC. All rights reserved.

Like Truthdig on Facebook