The only way to make a difference is to get Americans to STOP paying their mortgages.What would they do?Foreclose AMERICA ?Everyone could it be done?

Sarah Palin and Tea Party addicts call the
corporatist powers “crony capitalism.” It’s a poor
phrasing for the phenomenon; but it’s a start.

There’s a strong streak of Libertarianism in the TPs
that sometimes dovetails with progressives: marijuana
legalization, downsizing the military. But they have
been bought by the Kochs and mesmerized by Fox News.
There is also a belligerent attitude for what they
see as “socialists” and “Marxists” on the Left. And
anything to the left of John Birch qualifies as for
them. If the future portends any kind of fascist
power in America, the TPs would likely line up, not
because they’d want it, but because they have a
lemming quality to them—living in the hard-right
bubble.

However, maybe many of them can be persuaded to join
forces with progressives in the battle to decouple
government from business on the pretext that, as a
so-called “tea party” they would want to “take their
government back” and end the “taxation without
representation.”

The problem is, they see government as the main enemy
when it isn’t. It’s “bought government” and the
political auction as well as corporatist lobbying
bribery that is the root of all the other problems.
But unity of these two forces on this issue is
paramount to have the “populist” numbers to make this
kind of change.

Republicanism—the philosophy going back to
Machiavelli and Plato—has never been friendly to
populist movements. How can you be populist when you
are cheerleading for the aristocracy? And therein
lies the deception the TPs are under. They see the
enemy and they take a knife and stab themselves.

The similarities can be boiled down to this, people are pissed that no one is held accountable.

Was that 100% bullshit or was that 200% bullshit?

Credibility is not your strong suite ZenBowman, in fact you could run for President on the Republican Ticket because then facts and truth never need be in the way!

Addressing inequality called to attention by Occupy Wall Street is simply put the 99 percent compared to the 1 percent.

They the 1 percent have had a free ride for years now, they meaning the 1 percent who have not paid their fair share. One only need see the fed and friends which is really the 99 percent the peoples money. The Fed is a cornucopia of cronyism, actually they are frauds who represent themselves and the people be damned.

Actually the Tea Party sponsors are part of the problem, plus the Tea Party has only 27 percent support compared to the last time I checked Occupy Wall Street has 54 percent public support and it may be growing. Hence the Tea Party and the Koch Brothers are in a tizzy as their asses are exposed to the public.

The Tea Party does not represent me, Occupy Wall Street does, which does this mean, the people are finally being heard. This is a social movement but may turn into a political one, which in my opinion, will taint what they are doing now.

ZenBowman, October 19 at 10:43 am Link to this comment

Okay, so the Tea Party is funded by the Kochs.
And the OWS folks are funded by Soros and CPUSA.

An interesting conjecture. I would appreciate some legitimate proof that Soros money, or CP money, is going to OWS. There have been several proofs of the influence of the Koch Brothers money on the Tea Party but I have as yet seen nothing of what you claim regarding OWS resources.

Every article I read notes that the demonstrators are being supported by voluntary contributions of food, clothing, even shelter from the people in the areas in which these protestors are active. Do you then know otherwise?

Both the TP and OWS movements share the belief that government does not
represent the people.  The difference, however, lies in the fact that TPers believe
that the government is controlled by socialists and their fellow-travelers, while
the OWSers believe that it is controlled by corporations.  Which of these views is
more correct?  I think that any objective analysis would conclude that socialism is
a straw man.  Corporatism is the true enemy of the people. 

The best retort to critics of the OWS movement is to ask whether they are multi-
millionaires.  If they are not, then point out to them that they, too, belong to the
99% who are being screwed by the ruling elite of corporations and the superrich.

@ ZenBowman

“… they both have legitimate grievances?”

Really? Taxes are the lowest they’ve been for decades but: Taxed Enough Already?

Also: “And the OWS folks are funded by Soros and CPUSA.”

Really? A capitalist and marxists joining forces? Now that’s what I call inclusive!

(I generally don’t feed trolls but I’m bored. Cheers!)

“Hell, the KKK movement compares closer to one of the
two movements, which one do you suppose it is?”

Well, the American Nazi Party officially endorsed OWS,
I dunno?

Okay, so the Tea Party is funded by the Kochs.
And the OWS folks are funded by Soros and CPUSA.

Who cares who funds them, they both have legitimate
grievances?

You can choose to keep bickering, but you’ll get
nowhere.

Whats with the italics???

IMax, October 19 at 7:45 am Link to this comment

ardee,

I see the Tea movement as remaining legitimate. It has been from its beginnings. The actual Tea protesters, not unlike many turning out for OWS, are passionately Anti-Establishment. Ask John Boehner about his problems with those elected out of the 2009-10 Tea movement).
..........me…........
Those problems are the problem. The GOP thought, that to re-elect Bush, using the radical right as tools was a fine idea. It turned out to be another instance of that boy who rode the tiger. The GOP now cannot dismount from its headlong journey towards radicalism and, quite possibly, irrelevance.

I still seem to place in chronological order the infusions of cash by the Koch’s as the impetus for the growth of the Tea Party. Perhaps now it has achieved a life of its own. I do respect both your opinions and your logic.


The 2010 elections were effected by the Tea movement from coast to coast. In fact politics and legislation is still being effected by the movement (we see a handful of legislatures are effecting both the democrats and republicans in Washington). We don’t have to agree with every issue important to this movement.  We do, however, have to see it for what it is. It’s national in scope and, to date, it’s been effective. - Democrats are hoping to leash the energy from OWS for precisely this reason.
me again…....
So far the Dems have been on the fence regarding the OWS movement. Of course they have also not been heard from regarding many progressive desires.

Individual members of the Tea Party may find common cause with Occupy Wall
Street (as has happened) but the Tea Party as a movement? Never.

This may be our (the populous) noticeable vanguard winter of discontent. All the grievances are real, the ago old ossification by those in power and their cronies will do every thing they can to keep focus on other things then the real issues.

Actually sort of what some posters attempt with consistency here on TD! They must not discuss the issues at hand, never address the inequities or approach the peoples grievances.

Simply put, I find the Occupy Wall Street message on the bulls eye, by calling themselves the 99 percent.

Any person with a mind and the capability of reason sees the 1 percent and their disproportionate amount of everything seemingly a return to serfdom, without the perks!

The attack on unions seems to be taking the nation back to the age of the Robber Barron’s! The blatant elimination of regulations, child labor laws, voters rights being fooled with and many other 1 percent sponsored plans are attacks on the people and this is world wide.  I see the new Robber Barron’s are back, the self evident special interests and their bought and sold politicians have never shown any integrity, accountability with a clear absence of shame is rampart. (one only need watch the Republican debates).

So utilizing ossification and lies bolster their power, of course why else is this apparent attack on education? Of course ignorance is bliss for the 1 percent and needed to make special interests agendas much easier for continuing power moves and filling their coffers. The Elite work full time to get people vote against their own best interests.

This is not about right or left, conservative or liberal, this is about right and wrong! Occupy Wall Street should attempt to keep the momentum separate from politico agendas, Occupy Wall Street is the moral voice rising, and the conscience of society’s,.... now world wide!

Get the money out.

One Person, one dollar, one vote!

ardee,

I see the Tea movement as remaining legitimate. It has been from its beginnings. The actual Tea protesters, not unlike many turning out for OWS, are passionately Anti-Establishment. Ask John Boehner about his problems with those elected out of the 2009-10 Tea movement)

The 2010 elections were effected by the Tea movement from coast to coast. In fact politics and legislation is still being effected by the movement (we see a handful of legislatures are effecting both the democrats and republicans in Washington). We don’t have to agree with every issue important to this movement.  We do, however, have to see it for what it is. It’s national in scope and, to date, it’s been effective. - Democrats are hoping to leash the energy from OWS for precisely this reason.

OWS too is an organic and passionate growing set of demonstrations. It’s not yet, however, a “movement”.  Give it time and it may turn out to be.

-

I take terrific exception to all who now desire to claim that the global protests we’ve all been seeing for over a year have anything to do with OWS.  That’s pure arrogance and ignorance at play. For some it’s simply wishful thinking.

The Greeks, the French, the Spaniards, the Egyptians, the Syrians, the Iranians and the Kurds turn out in protest solely due to their own concerns and issues.  Issues having nothing to do with local U.S. politics or ideologies.

Sorry for the double but I omitted a sentence from my recent effort:

IMax, October 19 at 5:11 am

Thanks for the brief but well done history of that movement. In my comments regarding the Tea Party as a tool rather than as a genuine movement I had forgotten that they were once a genuine and somewhat spontaneous rising of well intentioned folks.

OzarkMichael, October 18 at 6:05 pm Link to this comment

ardee said:

Because Truthdig didnt tell you. Poor little Pawn.

While I am certain that most here have become used to the erratic and unstable nature of the efforts of this particular nut job thus making my further criticism a sort of overfilling of the bucket I am forced to note yet another stupidity from this usual source thereof.

Michael you are certainly entitled to your fanaticism but you are losing your grip on being even remotely engaged in reality. Not just in this silly riposte that assumes that I , nor my fellow TD’ers for that matter, reads only that which appears here.

I can only conjecture that ,because you limit your world to a narrow spectrum of right wing sources, NewsMax, the Washington Times, Faux Snooze et al you incorrectly conclude that we on the left do the same with our own set of news reportage.

I cannot speak for all who come here obviously, but I can infer from the number of very insightful efforts I find in this forum that many here are well read. I myself read a panoply of news sources, including the English language International Herald Tribune, the Manchester Guardian, the NYTimes, even, after taking a valium, the reportage on Fox.

After all one must inject some humor into one’s life and, while your posts increasingly provide a bit of said humor, I do want to understand what the real right is thinking and saying, as opposed to a radical right winger as yourself.

Let’s be fair to ourselves and all those who take the time to turnout, for whatever reason, to protest.

The Tea movement began immediately after the first bank bailout at the end of the Bush administration (the same reason many OWS protesters have their ire up today). The Tea movement began small on the social network circuit. Only after it began did Dick Army, the Koch Brothers, and others get involved (much like labor unions, the White House, and the democratic establishment is getting involved in OWS today).

The Tea movement began to grow larger the following summer with individuals (mostly elderly) showing up at town hall meetings in response to the Health-Care debate. Those individuals showed up all under their own steam (not unlike the beginnings of today’s OWS events).

Many thousands are turning out in support of the OWS protests. Reportedly 500,000 turned out in a single day in support of the Tea movement in 2010.

It’s been estimated that 130 charter buses arrived for last weeks OWS events in New York.  Porta-Pottys were rented, contract EMT’s were on hand, hundreds of union members were present to lend logistics and direction. - Someone doled-out a great deal of money for these things (not unlike the Koch Brothers and Dick Army’s group did in 2010). It’s highly unlikely that 130 charter buses magically arrived, at no charge, in support of OWS.

According to local newspapers around the nation it was local Union members who organized the locations and permits in nearly a hundred cities across the country for last weekends OWS events. - This is clearly democratic establishment money and organization in play.

The DNC and Labor Unions did not pay a reported 70,000 people to attend last weekend’s events. The Koch Brother did not pay 500,000 people to attend the 2010 event.  Everyone shows up under their own steam.

Here, I believe, is the point: No Labor Union machination or Koch Brother organization can get a movement off the ground if people are not themselves moved to action.  Any time tens of thousands of people turn out to protest it’s a legitimate “grassroots” movement.

Many people may not like or appreciate the OWS protests. This does not make this organically grown protest illegitimate. Any time thousands of people show up to an events it is legitimate and it is “grassroots”. The same applies to the Tea movement.

I’m sorry (actually I’m not) but this article is not worthy of Truthdig,and while it is obviously the opinion of the writer from his perspective, the gross generalizations seem more the product of a desire to fill space rather than a careful analysis any real shared characteristics.  You can do better.

The only likeness between the two movements seems to be the word ... ‘movement’!  Hell, the KKK movement compares closer to one of the two movements, which one do you suppose it is?

The Tea Party mind-set has been around forever in the form of what is roughly identified as the radical right—against welfare, health care, advocacy of policies considered “socialistic” or “communistic” or “anarchistic”, fearful of foreigners and people of color, frequently lacking in education and/or political sophistication, whatever that is. The OW movement is pro-change, and more aware of too much centralized power of money in politics.  Also pro-peace, anti-empire-building, less xenophobic, does not have a large religiously fundamental constituency, more technologically aware of future possibilities, more aware of global warming, the danger of corporate capitalism unlimited, ets.
  Vague generalities, to be sure, but more or less accurate.  the “feeling tone” of the two movements seems radically different regarding tolerance, empathy, inclusiveness etc. Less hard-edged and doctrinaire.  Interest in, and awareness of, nonviolent action is much higher among OWs. The “frame of mind” of OWs is less regressive; they are not interested in going “back to ...something.”
IMO.

When protestors who are now called the Tea Party first went
out on the streets, it was to protest many of the issues, such
as the Bank bailouts, that have concerned OWS. Republican
operatives (like Dick Armey) immediately saw the incipient
danger of older more conservative voters linking up with people
on the left in a unified movement against the system that had done so much to damage everyone on all sides. So they immediately stepped in to
co-opt the Tea Party movement and make it a wholly owned
Republican subsidiary focused on anything but Wall Street
corruption. Many on the left who voted for Obama thought
that he would lead the charge against Wall Street and take up
the other social/war related issues they were concerned about.
It is only after years of disillusionment with Obama, that the
people on the left finally got into gear with OWS, it being
obvious that Obama would do nothing. It is too late now for
many of the Tea Party people to join up with OWS because
they have identified themselves so closely with the Republican Party,
which is obviously pushing the point of view that OWS is made up
of a bunch of lefty radicals. The system was pretty good at ensuring
there would be no unified American movement against Wall Street.

Lame. The Tea of Tea party stands for taxed enough already. These people first
appeared nation wide months after Obama’s inauguration on April 15th protesting
against their taxes being raised, even though their taxes were not raised. And so it
began….

ardee said:

I have heard of no “power behind the demonstrations” linked to OWS…

.

Because Truthdig didnt tell you. Poor little Pawn.

This applies to all the uninformed fluff by the dead-head media, and even ‘left’ alt media regarding the Occupy movement, what this means, what the goals are, and how it relates to co-option and the corporate controlled Tea party:

OPN [Op Ed News web-site] follow-on and nest for all this BS fear about co-option and Tea Party of the left insanity:

The following is my post regarding undue fear of co-option:

[Post Title line]: “Continuing BS today on this easy to understand reality:

Glenn [an OPN poster fearful of Occupy being co-opted by Demos and/or liberal media, and/or MoveOn etc] , Frank, Rafe, Margaret, et al, ad nauseum, there would be no such confusion and BS as you and many others are seeding today on OEN, if we simply step back and ask the question, “Would OWS and global Occupy, be in any danger of “co-optation” as you warn, if it clearly articulated that it was——in addition to being against Wall Street, against inequality, against rapacious capitalism, etc. etc. etc.—- simply “Against Empire”, which is the hidden and cancerous pathology that actually is the underlying CAUSE of all these ‘symptom problems’??

NO!!!

There could be no co-optation of the revolutionary movement of Occupy, simply because the disguised corporate/financial/militarist EMPIRE that has captured our former country, by hiding behind its bought and owned TWO-Party “Vichy” sham of faux democratic government and faux media shills, could never, never, NEVER claim to be in agreement with, or pose as similar to Occupy——because all these co-opter clowns ARE THE EMPIRE.

Get with it. Glenn.
This is the primary tactical reason that OWS needs to clearly articulate that it is a movement “Against Empire”——which includes being against Wall Street, against vast economic inequality, against social injustice, against imperialist wars, against environmental destruction, etc. etc. etc…....

By Occupy clearly saying that it is Against Empire——the hidden corporate/financial/militarist Empire that now controls the government, banks, media, etc. of our former country——Occupy would be making it absofrigginlutely impossible for the lacky Demos, or MoveOn, or NYT/WaPo, or any of these collaborators and slugs to ever say anything about OWS being in the same boat as these shills, BECAUSE none of these slimy co-opters of Occupy dares to say that they are also Against Empire!!

The deceivers, co-opters, and similar phonies trying to hang onto Occupy’s coat tails can not ever, ever, dare to even imply that they are in solidarity with an Occupy goal, demand, agenda which is overtly “Against Empire”—- because they DARE not even whisper the word ‘empire’ since they ARE IT!!!

And, Frank [another worrier on OPN, concerned with Christian fundamentalist co-opters], specifically to your point of religious co-option of Occupy:

No one, regardless of how dumb they are, who is truly a Christian (fundamentalist or not) could speak out against an Occupy movement that is “Against Empire”—- for the obvious reason that Christ was sent to earth to confront EMPIRE with love, and which EMPIRE then killed him.

Best luck and love to Occupy

Alan MacDonald

Liberty & democracy
over
violent/Vichy
empire

It’s true that the two protest groups have some things in common. The Tea Party
people are Republicans.The question is whether the OWS will translate into a
political force that will repudiate the control held by the two ruling parties and
stay far away from them, regardless of presidential candidates. Only when that becomes clear, we’ll find out whether they have a lot or nothing in common.

A really lazy false equivalence. Whatever the origins of the Tea Party, and I do think it started out as a genuine grassroots movement, it has long since been co-opted by the corporate conservative establishment to rebrand the Republican image after the utter failure of conservative policies given unrestrained expression during the Bush Administration.

A common political cynicism and a shared economic anxiety doesn’t make the unstated “social justice” meme of the Occupy Wall Street movement equivalent to the stated “limited government” meme of the Tea Party. Both might be thought of as “anti-government” but that doesn’t make them more alike than not.

My grievous error in not making a clearer statement.
Apples and oranges are both fruits, but very different.  Tea Partiers and OWs are all human beings, but very different!  Apparently I wasn’t clear.  Sorry.  There’s a world of difference between the two.

While apples and oranges I do think OWS is playing it smart.  From what I have seen they generally do not resort to name calling and simply welcome Tea Party members to join their movement.  They properly recognize that there is nothing to be gained by focusing on their differences, and it is better to stay positive and on message.  And above all do not get stuck in the left versus right distraction.  It is about changing the system.

a banker, a gov’t worker, and a tea partier walk into
a bakery.  there’s a dozen doughnuts on a counter and
the banker grabs 11 for himself.  he then manages to
convince the tea partier that the gov’t worker is
trying to rob him of the one remaining doughnut.
___________________

last week, Common Dreams had a post concerning a Fox
news poll.  the poll asked Fox news viewers/readers
if the OWS crowd represented their concerns about the
economy.  over 200,000 people replied.  26% of the
respondees said No and 70 PERCENT said Yes.  when OWS
says ‘we are the 99%’, they’re smart enough to leave
an opening for tea partiers, unlike some of their
dismissive liberal brethren.

There was no Tea Party. The whole thing was financed by the Koch brothers. All astroturf and paid labor.

Apples and oranges!

I will be interested to read various opinions regarding this opinion of the author that both the Tea Party and the OWS arose spontaneously and have things in common.

My own opinion is that , while they are both protest movements, while they both see a need to alter our governments policies and actions, there is one glaring difference I think.

The Tea Party is, I offer, a wholly owned subsidiary of Koch Industries. It was put together as a political ploy , as a tool to unseat the Democrats and bring victory to the GOP in the coming election.

The OWS folks, as far as I have read their statements and their signage, wishes to alter only the influence of money on our politics. They, unlike the Tea Party, do not espouse starving the govt to death ,only to restore the answerability of said govt to the people.

I have heard of no “power behind the demonstrations” linked to OWS, a far cry from the power behind the Tea Party. I would also like to add that those in the OWS actually have a brain, but I haven’t measured them all, and can only judge from the signage and statements I have heard from both.

I admit that I may be a trifle prejudicial in that judgement and freely admit to such.