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Obama Abroad: Democratic Realism

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Posted on Dec 11, 2011
White House / Pete Souza

President Obama meets with advisers in the situation room of the White House.

By E.J. Dionne, Jr.

It was gratifying to hear a despotic leader blame the United States for the rise of a democratic protest movement against his regime.

Vladimir Putin, the Russian prime minister, wants his people to think that those who have taken to the streets to express their rage over rigged elections are nothing but tools of American foreign policy, put to work by none other than Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton.

“She set the tone for some of our public figures inside the country, sent a signal to them,” Putin said, offering a conspiracy theory straight out of a bad thriller. “They heard this signal and launched active work with the U.S. State Department’s support.” Did the former KGB guy who runs Russia discover this among his old Cold War memos?

The first week of December was an extraordinary time for Clinton. Not only did she declare that the Russian elections were “neither free nor fair” and criticize governments that “fail to prosecute those who attack people for exercising their rights or exposing abuses.” She also gave what will be seen as a historic speech to a United Nations group in Switzerland describing gays and lesbians as “the invisible minority.”

Who thought an American leader would ever say the following?

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“It is a violation of human rights when people are beaten or killed because of their sexual orientation, or because they do not conform to cultural norms about how men and women should look or behave. It is a violation of human rights when governments declare it illegal to be gay, or allow those who harm gay people to go unpunished.”

Her words made me want to stand up and sing the refrain of that song they always play at Republican conventions: I’m proud to be an American.

Something important has happened to President Obama’s foreign policy. For some time after he took office, he only rarely spoke out for human rights or used the word “democracy.” In the wake of the George W. Bush years, he was focused on rebuilding alliances and moving toward both a more measured and prudent use of American power. It was an approach much closer to the old-fashioned realism practiced by the first President Bush.

Overall, it was a change for the better. But for a while, it seemed that the administration decided that because the second President Bush used democracy promotion as a rationale for a mistaken war in Iraq, too much democracy talk might be a bad thing. This was the wrong conclusion. Those who think of themselves as progressives should never avoid their obligations to democracy—even if there are both prudential and moral limits to America’s capacity to impose it on others.

This is evolving, as Clinton’s excellent week brought home. Like the elder Bush, Obama remains a foreign-policy realist, but the Arab Spring may have encouraged him to speak ever more forcefully about democracy and human rights. The intervention in Libya—careful, limited, but effective—was a signal moment.

What the president is pursuing might best be described as “democratic realism,” although it is perhaps ironic that this term was first popularized by my Washington Post colleague Charles Krauthammer, a conservative who is a sharp Obama critic.

In a 2004 speech at the American Enterprise Institute, Krauthammer defined democratic realism this way: “We will support democracy everywhere, but we will commit blood and treasure only in places where there is a strategic necessity—meaning, places central to the larger war against the existential enemy, the enemy that poses a global mortal threat to freedom.”

That is not a bad formulation, even if Krauthammer and I might disagree over its implications for our intervention in Iraq and the connotations of that word “existential.”

What Obama is definitely not practicing is “appeasement,” the shameful charge that came from a Mitt Romney prepared to say anything to appease a Republican right wing that so far has spurned him.

Obama offered a devastating reply: “Ask Osama bin Laden and the 22 out of 30 top al-Qaeda leaders who’ve been taken off the field whether I engage in appeasement.” Say what you will about Obama’s foreign policy, it has been rather clear about who the enemy is. If we want a constructive foreign policy debate, let’s drop the appeasement nonsense and argue instead about democratic realism, what it means, and whether it’s the right idea to undergird American policy.

   
E.J. Dionne’s e-mail address is ejdionne(at)washpost.com.
   
© 2011, Washington Post Writers Group


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drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, December 14, 2011 at 1:18 pm Link to this comment

@AMeshiea
“Perusing the kind of sites you reference is enough to make most near-the-edge disturbed personalities fall off the precipice, as you clearly have.”

Spoken like a genuine pimp of the evil forces that have overtaken the USA.

I encourage you to broaden your perception of life.  If you go out tonight and look at the sky, and pose the question, if the NAZIs or the C.I.A. or Obama created all that you see.  Also, you might pose the question of what happens to your “life spark,” when your body expires?  And if the people you pimp for have any input into the decision.

The egocentric clan that has hidden behind the term “Jew” since the holocaust, has a recorded history of only a few thousand years.  The recorded history of Egypt is much older.  Also, Mongolians are thought to have walked across the Aleutian chain 30,000 yrs ago, and settled what is now North, Central and South America.  What your leadership has been doing in 3rd World Countries since 1960, was initiated in the colonies by pimps of the Queen of Spain in the 1500s.  Your logic parallels that of the psychopaths you so valiantly represent, who enjoy genocide & population control. 

You are probably not aware that the thread of zionism pervaded the National
Socialist Party in Germany.  Nor, that evidence suggests that Hitler was a British agent.  You probably are not aware that the NASA´s former Chief of Space Medicine Hubertus Strughold, MD, was a WWII NAZI war criminal.  Strughold killed numbers of innocent victims in the extermination installation in Dachau, Germany, by his experiments.  Which experiments were reported by genuine scientists to have contributed nothing to space medicine.  Only because of the NAZI control of NASA, was he promoted, instead of being tried for Crimes against Humanity. 
http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/issue43/articles/mkultra.htm

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AMeshiea's avatar

By AMeshiea, December 14, 2011 at 6:12 am Link to this comment

“You need to recognize some of the facts in order to
“get it straight,”
and you obviously have not yet begun.  Your prejudice
is exceeded
only by your stupidity.”

You seem to have a very free wheeling interpretation
of the term “fact” and an even more loose concept of
causality.

My main critique was with your notion that some Bush
league owns NATO and this is why Libya was attacked
via some circuitous unproven fancy that there was a
conspiracy to cover up Lockerbie.

Its tortured logic like this that makes many lefties
worthy of the moniker “wing-nut.”

Perusing the kind of sites you reference is enough to
make most near-the-edge disturbed personalities fall
off the precipice, as you clearly have.

Report this
drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, December 14, 2011 at 5:56 am Link to this comment

@AMeshiea
“Ok so let me see if I can get this straight.”

You need to recognize some of the facts in order to “get it straight,”
and you obviously have not yet begun.  Your prejudice is exceeded
only by your stupidity.

Your inverted “seeing eye” pyramid almost reflects your confusion.

Report this
AMeshiea's avatar

By AMeshiea, December 14, 2011 at 4:29 am Link to this comment

“http://www.meforum.org/meib/articles/0007_me2.htm
Thus, Ghadaffi and Libya were destroyed by NATO,
which is owned by the
GHWBushSr entourage.  Turning a blind eye to
GHWBushSr, “the nice man,”
has led to the subversion of the USA, by the WWI
NAZI/GHWBushSr entourage.”
—drbhelthi

Ok so let me see if I can get this straight. The
unknown testimony of an eccentric millionaire who may
or may not be a CIA agent who happens to be the only
one who knows the “real” Lockerbie bombers (who
happen to be Syrians) thusly gave NATO the green
light to “destroy” Libya?

Last I checked Libya is still there, has an emergent
democracy (my family there seem to be doing just
dandy). Indeed except for a lot of wreckage caused by
grad rocket attacks randomly fired by Ghaddaffi’s
forces on his people finally rebelling against a
tyranny, Id say NATO did an awfully good job.  Of
course it may not be the government they would
ideally want but hey that’s democracy for ya.

The rest of your stuff is unsolicited OTT paranoid
waffle as well.

Report this
drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, December 14, 2011 at 1:52 am Link to this comment

@SoTexGuy
“But hey.. that Putin and those Russkies are scoundrels and need to be
contained.. “

Excuse me ?
It isn´t “Putin and those Russkies” that are attempting to colonize the rest of the
world.  The former Soviet Union has lost territory, while the Bush/Obama
administrations continue to attack quasi-defenseless countries, overtaking their
oil and natural resources.  This, while destroying the forests in South America
and Africa.  As the CIA/MOSSAD moles destroy Iran from the inside and
provoke demonstrations in Russia.(and every other country that resists US and
NATO colonization)

Are you sure you are describing “Putin and those Russkies”?  For example, the
“Fulda Gap” fear of the 1980s was entirely artificial.  The USMilitary publicized
that “the Russkies” were planning to charge from East Germany through the
“Fulda Gap” into Germany, overtaking western Europe.  This artificial fear
enabled the USMilitary to beef up Germany, and Europe, NEEDLESSLY.  This
occurred before Junior Bush was slid into the White House.  Information that has
been revealed since Mikhail Gorbachev, indicates that “the Russkies” had no
such plans and even feared that the USMilitary was planning to attack. 

The rumor has been traced to disinformation provided by agents of NAZI SS
Gen. Reinhard Gehlin, (C.I.A.) the same NAZI who reorganized the duties of
the former OSS into the C.I.A. 1945-1947. The same C.I.A. that blew up the PAA
747 over Lockerbie, Scotland.  The C.I.A. killed the two special agents that were
returning to the US with secret information that would have fingered the USGOV
Mogul behind the illegal drug trade that uses USMilitary personnel and vehicles
to import tons of drugs into the U.S. 

Susan Lindauer, C.I.A. “Whistle-Blower,” provided the facts, destroying the
standard, falsified cover-story provided by the GHWBushSr entourage (C.I.A.),
continued by “Bush Junior.” 
http://www.meforum.org/meib/articles/0007_me2.htm 
Thus, Ghadaffi and Libya were destroyed by NATO, which is owned by the
GHWBushSr entourage.  Turning a blind eye to GHWBushSr, “the nice man,”
has led to the subversion of the USA, by the WWI NAZI/GHWBushSr entourage.                     
http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=8252175042329977626#

And now, Obama is planning to sign away all remaining rights of Americans,
this week.  Which includes the naive who voted for a partial-black candidate.

Report this

By SoTexGuy, December 13, 2011 at 4:12 pm Link to this comment

Hillary Clinton and Obama speak well about the rights of homosexuals to be free from fear and discrimination.. I hope what they say aids in ending abuse and more of homosexuals.. But that’s the easy stuff, isn’t it? Let’s hear them condemn the clear-cutting and burning of the Amazon basin.. Anybody?
(silence)..

It seems true however, from e-mails and more made public, that Clinton’s state department is actually paying for reports of Russian poll problems.. Ok, you might say.. if it gets the word out!? Yet I suspect this is another case of demand instigating supply..

But hey.. that Putin and those Russkies are scoundrels and need to be contained.. And fair is fair!. So let’s see the State Department or any other pertinent tax-funded branch of government put out the word that it wants to revisit the Bush/Gore election.. and is willing to pay money to see the
complaints of those who thought their votes went uncounted or miscounted..

Yeah Clinton! (more silence)..

Adios!

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Blueokie's avatar

By Blueokie, December 13, 2011 at 12:40 pm Link to this comment

The more I read of Dionne, the more I’m convinced he is on the payroll of the DNC ala Armstrong Williams.  We had to change government leadership because the Imperialist/Fascist policies of Bush/Cheney were short-sighted, evil and destructive, however when Obama/Clinton embrace, enhance, and expand those
same policies they are magically transformed into being benign, enlightened, and utopian.  Using the logic of U.S. foreign policy, isn’t Russia entitled to launch a preemptive war against the U.S. as we now threaten their way of life?

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By DornDiego, December 13, 2011 at 11:09 am Link to this comment

Think, too, about Mr. Clean’s wiretapping, and his embrace of executive
assassiNATION in the name of democracy.  If Obamaman thinks it’s okay to drop
strange powders in radicals’ cups of espresso to fight for Mom and Pop Over Here
should we trust him as a democrat?  Did he close Gitmo?
I admire your work, E.J., but we can’t reform Merka by settling for third best. 
We’ve been doing that, and look where we are now.  Don’t stray too far from your
own understandings.  Let’s hear from you about this reaction you’re seeing, kiddo,
and try to ignore these wild ones calling you a Corporate Fascist.  You’re not that,
not even close, but, jeez, you laid a stinker.

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AMeshiea's avatar

By AMeshiea, December 13, 2011 at 6:36 am Link to this comment

By prisnersdilema

“I guess we can forget about the 50,000 North
Africans killed in NATO air strikes
against Khadafi,”

Uh yes you can the figures are around 30 -40k the
vast majority of which combatants for Ghaddaffi and
civilians turned revolutionaries as well as just
plain civilians killed by Ghaddafi.


But on the rest of your points I agree.

To think Obama is some kind of great “new”
peacemaker.
i love this about Clinton:

“The first week of December was an extraordinary time
for Clinton. Not only did she declare that the
Russian elections were “neither free nor fair” and
criticize governments that “fail to prosecute those
who attack people for exercising their rights or
exposing abuses.” “

Pot may I introduce you to Kettle…

“Her words made me want to stand up and sing the
refrain of that song they always play at Republican
conventions: I’m proud to be an American.”- Dionne

Clearly our little “writer” has fallen head first
into some cool aid.

“Something important has happened to President
Obama’s foreign policy. For some time after he took
office, he only rarely spoke out for human rights or
used the word “democracy.” “-Dionne

who gives a rats-ass what Obama talks about anymore?
Oh wait that cool aid is pretty good.

Go Obama!

Report this

By semanticfreak, December 13, 2011 at 4:09 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What does Democratic Realism mean? Is that realism being voted for? How
many people are for realism and how many against? What would the alternative
to Democratic Realism mean? Democratic Unrealism?

Why is truthdig putting such crap on the web site? What value does this article
add to political discourse or our understanding of how the world works? It just
proves the Obama is a gutless wonder who knows how to talk. I guess it also
proves the EJ Dionne is an establishment stooge. His appearance on NPR/PBS
(the club of ivy league sellouts) should have confirmed that already.

Now to the main point. What does Obama/Clinton think about the OWS protests
—aside from his cynical attempt to co-opt the occupy movement for his 2012
election campaign. And more importantly, where does Obama (or for that
matter Dionne) stand on democratic principles when police departments across
the country are using military tactics to disperse the protesters. Or if we want to
talk about foreign policy, what about Obama’s stand vis-a-vis protests in
Bahrain, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and protests in other “friendly” Arab states.

I think what Dionne meant to say is “Democratic RealPolitik”—which is a
euphemism for hypocrisy.

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drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, December 13, 2011 at 3:00 am Link to this comment

“- -  it is not clear whether Iraq will become a safe haven for America’s enemies
once the United States fully leaves the country. “

Interesting disinformation ideas.
Especially, when the USMilitary plans to remain in Iraq indefinitely. Which, translates
to mean that the GHWBushSr/Obama dictatorship plans to never withdraw US
troops completely.  Similar to other countries that remain colonized since WWII, e.g.
Germany.  The NAZI/GHWBushSr/CIA entourage, led by the alias, Barack H.
Obama, continues to progress with world domination.
http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=8252175042329977626#

The same administration establishes the definition of “America´s enemies”, rather
than applying a realistic appraisal.  Thus, the USSenate recently declared
Americans to be the enemy.
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/december022011/bill-rights-ends.php

What is Northcom & Centcom, and what are their current duties inside the USofA ?

Report this

By david tarbuck, December 12, 2011 at 10:40 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“argue instead about democratic realism, what it means, and whether it’s the right idea to undergird American policy.” 

American commitment to democracy is a admirable except for alack of underatanding what exactly “democracy”  is. Here are a few hints:

1) It is governance by the consent of the governed. 
2) It MUST be HOMEGROWN; it can NOT be successfully exported or imported. 
3) It comes in many forms, with many historical loyalties, taboos, customs &c.
4) It may be of either evolutionary or revolutionary origin. 
5) It must not be allowed to ossify but must reflect the reality of the times; otherwise it dies.

Americans generally have no problem with (1)consent; it is the lack of understanding (2)homegrown, and (3)many forms, that get USA into the fog.

Report this

By Litl Bludot, December 12, 2011 at 5:03 pm Link to this comment

@ Michael Cavlan RN

Sorry about that last post. I copied and pasted your name but didn’t edit out the
By.

I think the order of your priorities is as good as any. There is little chance of
improving the chances for the survival of whats left of our society, much less
the biosphere, without the corporate parasites removed from it.

The most dangerous ones, as you know, are the frenemy designed parasites
(examples are in the Democratic Party here, but they exist now around the
world, in every country) , who pretend to be against corporate fascism but are
really covertly in league with them. These are the frenemies that get elected as
agents of “change”. The prime example is frenemy in chief, the best
camouflaged parasitic fascist corporate vector to date. You know,,,

Report this

By joegod, December 12, 2011 at 5:01 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr Dionne needs to be handed his walking papers and not be a featured
writer on this site, if Truthdig! (which I really like even though I can’t seem to
get registered- help me, Scheer!) hopes to retain its credibility. I just can’t
believe accomplished journalists want to write partisan fluffpieces like this, I
think it generally insults our intelligence.

Report this

By Litl Bludot, December 12, 2011 at 4:40 pm Link to this comment

By Michael Cavlan RN

Yes, I remember when Wellstone was eliminated. It had just become clear that he
was going to be re-elected by a poll a few days before, AND he had been able to
beat corproate fascist opponents by telling the truth and getting his campaign
funded only by the citizens. This was very dangerous to the corporate parasites in
power. Wellstone, they realized, could run for president and win. So,,,,,,

All the best to you Michael. I will check out your website and follow your
campaign.

Report this
prisnersdilema's avatar

By prisnersdilema, December 12, 2011 at 3:29 pm Link to this comment

Avoid small plane flights as much as possible before the election, as well as after it
Michael…

it would ve nice to get an investigation, of not only Paul Wellstone, but Mel Carnahan,
John Kennedy Junior, and John Tower, all of who died in small plane crahses, there are
several others…

Report this

By Michael Cavlan RN, December 12, 2011 at 2:09 pm Link to this comment

Ltlbluedot

Well I was thinking about my former Senator the other day. Paul Wellstone. Then I thought of the person I am trying to replace. Senator Amy Klobuchar (D). I have been advised that in the case that our campaign should win, that I as a Senator should not take any small airplane rides.

As a sitting US Senator, I intend to publicly call for

An independent investigation into the death of Minnesota Senator Paul Wellstone

An independent investigation into the September 11 attacks

Federal indictments of those responsible for election fraud in the 2000 and 2004 elections. Under the violations of the 1965 Voter Rights Act.

Then we can point to Nancy Pelosi and her complicity in torture, Senator Dick Durban and his words spoken to the American public after his meetings in the Intelligence Committee hearings. Which repeated the lies of the Bush Administration and led us into an illegal war in Iraq.

I will be real popular on “The Hill.”

Michael Cavlan
Candidate US Senate 2012
Minnesota Open Progressives

Report this

By the worm, December 12, 2011 at 1:46 pm Link to this comment

Does anyone out there have information (of the hard data sort) regarding the
military budget under Obama?

2008

2009

2010

2011

2012

I would appreciate knowing how much $$$ Obama has allocated to the military.

Im looking for real numbers here. Does anyone have a good (i.e. accessible and
accurate) source?

Thanks .

Report this
prisnersdilema's avatar

By prisnersdilema, December 12, 2011 at 12:46 pm Link to this comment

I guess we can forget about the 50,000 North Africans killed in NATO air strikes
against Khadafi, the millions of Iraq’s killed,  as well as those killed in Afghanistan,
and Pakistan. Then there are our servicemen and women killed fighting a war In
Iraq, that was created and perpetuated by a psyops perpetrated on the American
people, a war fought under false pretenses.

The only thing real in this article is comparing Obama to Bush one. Proof positive
that those in the Washington psyops core, view Obama’s faux reign, as a
continuation of Bush 1 and Bush 2’s, corporate War, against the World.

Lets compare, shall we Putins lies to Obama’s. The killing of American citizens
without trial, and his recent signature of the law that allows indefinite detention of
American citizens in this country without any legal recourse what so ever. 

Yes, they will do everything possible to keep up appearances, by shifting attention
to the atrocities of others. Dismissing the larcenies, and gargantuan crimes of
Wall Street, he again abets them. Doing just what he is paid to do.

Report this

By Litl Bludot, December 12, 2011 at 11:33 am Link to this comment

@Michael Cavlan RN

Dionne is a corporate pimp. He’s a talking head on NPR, supposedly
representing the progressive or left. He performs the same function here, only
representing the “moderate” faction of the “journalists”.

You and I know that he is a vector for the corporate fascist parasites, Truthdig
knows this too (i.e. Scheer), but, my guess is Dionne gets top page billing
because the powers that be, the corporate fascists, would close this space
down, or at the very least, make it unpleasant for Scheer et. al. one way or
another.

It’s one thing to criticize Obama and the corporate fascists, but that criticism
must be diluted and ineffectual, or bad things happen. I was thinking of giving
examples, but ,,,,,you know.

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 12, 2011 at 11:28 am Link to this comment

I couldn’t get very far in this jingoist piece of gringo self-gratification.

What a pile of steaming horseshit!

Send me a postcard when the US electoral process is fair!

Meanwhie, stop publishing this Cold War Redux propaganda.

Report this

By balkas, December 12, 2011 at 9:47 am Link to this comment

@John Poole,
excellent joke and excellent message. i’ll tell it my young-old wife. but
having given birth to three bad daughters, one cannot expect much of a
humor left in her. we’ll take a chance, anyway. tnx

Report this

By Michael Cavlan RN, December 12, 2011 at 9:33 am Link to this comment

So, just out of idle curiosity. Why does EJ Dionne and all the other apologists get soooooo much ink around here? Filling up the spaces with this kind of drivel? It is an editorial decision after all. Or perhaps the decision of the owners of the editors?

I could go to the New Yawk Times or Washington Post if I wanted this kind of corporate spin.

I wonder if I am not the only one to stop visiting this site? Except for Monday’s with Chris Hedges?

Shall I apply for a Truthdigger of the Week Award?

Grin

Report this

By john Poole, December 12, 2011 at 9:18 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Robespierre115 - We should be grateful that Dionne is just a pen wielder. Imagine
the damage he could cause wielding a sword?  He’d be swinging it as illogically as
he swings his pen.

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Robespierre115's avatar

By Robespierre115, December 12, 2011 at 8:35 am Link to this comment

Is Dionne a complete idiot? He forgets the 2009 coup in Honduras, the 2010 failed coup in Ecuador, Obama has increased funding to destabilize the government of Venezuela, he’s waging a covert campaign of terrorism and sabotage against Iran, he’s poking at China and militarizing the Pacific even further, and somehow the ray of light is empty rhetoric by Clinton on the situation in Russia? This has to be the most delusional, idiotic article Dionne has written all year.

Report this
thecrow's avatar

By thecrow, December 12, 2011 at 7:56 am Link to this comment

“the existential enemy, the enemy that poses a global mortal threat to freedom”

And that would be…

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2011/05/05/interior-attack/

Report this

By John Poole, December 12, 2011 at 7:49 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

balkas- recent finds have uncovered a translation mistake in Genesis. God made
woman first.  After a few weeks of tidying up the garden she shouted out:  “I’m
bored and I’m horny so you’d better get a man down here pronto.” Most women
laugh at my reinterpretation.

Report this

By Lisa, December 12, 2011 at 7:46 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I initially assumed this post was ironic (esp. the standing up and singing part; obviously) but that appears not to be the case (I apologise if I am missing some nuance in the post that reveals that it is indeed ironic.)


“... those who have taken to the streets to express their rage over rigged elections are nothing but tools of American foreign policy… ” Mmmm… yeah… Unthinkable!!!!

“Did the former KGB guy who runs Russia discover this among his old Cold War memos?” This is just so childishly condescending it makes ordering people to call “French Fries” “Freedom Fries” like a perfectly adequate step to take for elective representatives.

Yuk.

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EmileZ's avatar

By EmileZ, December 12, 2011 at 7:06 am Link to this comment

@balkas

You are a sweetie my dear darling.

Make no mistake…

Report this

By balkas, December 12, 2011 at 6:22 am Link to this comment

@emileZ.
i am a mistake, too. so’s the planet! it shld have been at least 10k larger
than it is. or ‘god’ shld have mnaufactured at least three planets
[preferably at least one million]: one for the talmudniks, another for
christians, and third a for islamists.

and it is not a mistake that only u.s cld be mistaken and its
manufactured enemies, never—but always evil, perilous, hateful against
u.s, its ‘intererests’, etc.

so, am i an islamo-, christo-, talmudo-phobe?? no, not any longer—i am
now 90 y o; so, what’s there to fear any more; especially, knowing i cam
make any mistake [mistakenly or otherwise] and call it an honest
mistake. tnx

Report this
thecrow's avatar

By thecrow, December 12, 2011 at 6:14 am Link to this comment

Or why not ask Osama what he meant when he said this?

“Is it not that there exists a government within the government in the United States? That secret government must be asked who carried out the attacks.”

- OBL, September 28, 2001

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2011/05/11/dead-men-tell/

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thecrow's avatar

By thecrow, December 12, 2011 at 6:08 am Link to this comment

“Ask Osama bin Laden…”

While we are posing rhetorical questions to the dead, Mr. President, why not ask Barry Jennings whether you engage in “appeasement”?

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/barry-jennings-speaks/

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thecrow's avatar

By thecrow, December 12, 2011 at 6:01 am Link to this comment

“Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can’t take that away…”

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/12/10/forgive-and-forgetforget/

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/10/30/the-ones-who-attacked-us/

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By ardee, December 12, 2011 at 5:55 am Link to this comment

Not much substance here I fear. Putin is free to say whatever he wishes about the protests in his own nation, and Dionne is free to grasp at straws in desperately seeking Susan, err ways to place Obama and the Democrats in a good light.

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By balkas, December 12, 2011 at 5:50 am Link to this comment

as i see it, u.s domestic and foreign policy is a constant. it never
changes!! what then changes? well, to skin the cat never changes—only
how/when/where to skin it changes. [and i need krauthammer to tell me
this??? no folks, just my 5 y o great-great grand-daughter and my wife]

so, how/when/where changes, but THE WHY never. it is the then the
tactics that dionne calls “obama’s, bush’s, clinton’s, foreign policies”
and every MSM columnists i know of makes sure that the WHY OF IT ALL
is never even mentioned let alone studied.

in short, folks, MSM belligerent scribes have always given u and will
forever keep giving u sensationalism sans causationalism.
don’t feed these trolls, war sellers, etc.
yes, of course, i am also a troll; because i troll politico-media people, but
in order to tell it as it is.
i seldom troll the trollers on this or any other site.
a troller’s job is to draw u away from observing and discussing the most
salient facts by dwelling solely or mostly on peripheral issues or events
that cannot be ever proven right or wrong or true or false.
some people may actually feed the trollers in order that trolling continues
along with name calling, insults, etc.
most of the time a need to read just one paragraph in order to come to a
conclusion that i am dealing with a warmonger, snake oil salesman,
diversionary. tnx bozhidar balkas, vancouver, b.c.

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EmileZ's avatar

By EmileZ, December 12, 2011 at 5:31 am Link to this comment

@ balkas

I guess you didn’t know, the U.S. makes “mistakes”, it doesn’t engage in immoral actions. The Vietnam invasion and genocide was a “mistake” as well.

But we always own up to our “mistakes” (well not always)... American Exceptionalism (as Chris Matthews might put it).

Our refusal to seriously address global warming is another “mistake”.

We don’t want to “undergird American policy”, and if we have to make a few “mistakes” on the way in pusuit of “democratic realism” , well that is par for the course if you know what I mean.

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By balkas, December 12, 2011 at 5:11 am Link to this comment

if dionne dare call a naked aggression like the aggression against iraq,
“mistaken war”, i guess russia cld call its election “mistaken election”.
treatment of gay people cld be called   “mistaken treatment of people
with confused genes”.

while we are at it, why not call all wars “mistaken wars”. and all ills that
we do to one another just a big happy, very entertaining “mistake”.

didn’t eve ‘god’ make big and for himher also happy mistake when s/he
forgot to do the right thing? and u know what i mean, but am making a
mistake of not spelling it out to u’ze guyz. 
ok, that was a spelling mistake i just made. tnx

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By Nap, December 12, 2011 at 12:25 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What a miserable shill, who cares what a hypocrite has to say anything about anything.

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By Textynn, December 11, 2011 at 10:52 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Agreeing with you victim is manipulation tactic number one.  Obama did it to get elected with a mandate and then worked for his donors the banks like he never knew the people that elected him. Anyone believing that he will change or will not continue with the agenda of the bankers running this country, they are among those fooled all the time.

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