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Noam Chomsky Has ‘Never Seen Anything Like This’

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Posted on Apr 19, 2010
AP / Hussein Malla

By Chris Hedges

Noam Chomsky is America’s greatest intellectual. His massive body of work, which includes nearly 100 books, has for decades deflated and exposed the lies of the power elite and the myths they perpetrate. Chomsky has done this despite being blacklisted by the commercial media, turned into a pariah by the academy and, by his own admission, being a pedantic and at times slightly boring speaker. He combines moral autonomy with rigorous scholarship, a remarkable grasp of detail and a searing intellect. He curtly dismisses our two-party system as a mirage orchestrated by the corporate state, excoriates the liberal intelligentsia for being fops and courtiers and describes the drivel of the commercial media as a form of “brainwashing.” And as our nation’s most prescient critic of unregulated capitalism, globalization and the poison of empire, he enters his 81st year warning us that we have little time left to save our anemic democracy.

“It is very similar to late Weimar Germany,” Chomsky told me when I called him at his office in Cambridge, Mass. “The parallels are striking. There was also tremendous disillusionment with the parliamentary system. The most striking fact about Weimar was not that the Nazis managed to destroy the Social Democrats and the Communists but that the traditional parties, the Conservative and Liberal parties, were hated and disappeared. It left a vacuum which the Nazis very cleverly and intelligently managed to take over.”

“The United States is extremely lucky that no honest, charismatic figure has arisen,” Chomsky went on. “Every charismatic figure is such an obvious crook that he destroys himself, like McCarthy or Nixon or the evangelist preachers. If somebody comes along who is charismatic and honest this country is in real trouble because of the frustration, disillusionment, the justified anger and the absence of any coherent response. What are people supposed to think if someone says ‘I have got an answer, we have an enemy’? There it was the Jews. Here it will be the illegal immigrants and the blacks. We will be told that white males are a persecuted minority. We will be told we have to defend ourselves and the honor of the nation. Military force will be exalted. People will be beaten up. This could become an overwhelming force. And if it happens it will be more dangerous than Germany. The United States is the world power. Germany was powerful but had more powerful antagonists. I don’t think all this is very far away. If the polls are accurate it is not the Republicans but the right-wing Republicans, the crazed Republicans, who will sweep the next election.”

“I have never seen anything like this in my lifetime,” Chomsky added. “I am old enough to remember the 1930s. My whole family was unemployed. There were far more desperate conditions than today. But it was hopeful. People had hope. The CIO was organizing. No one wants to say it anymore but the Communist Party was the spearhead for labor and civil rights organizing. Even things like giving my unemployed seamstress aunt a week in the country. It was a life. There is nothing like that now. The mood of the country is frightening. The level of anger, frustration and hatred of institutions is not organized in a constructive way. It is going off into self-destructive fantasies.”

“I listen to talk radio,” Chomsky said. “I don’t want to hear Rush Limbaugh. I want to hear the people calling in. They are like [suicide pilot] Joe Stack. What is happening to me? I have done all the right things. I am a God-fearing Christian. I work hard for my family. I have a gun. I believe in the values of the country and my life is collapsing.”

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Chomsky has, more than any other American intellectual, charted the downward spiral of the American political and economic system, in works such as “On Power and Ideology: The Managua Lectures,” “Rethinking Camelot: JFK, the Vietnam War, and US Political Culture,” “A New Generation Draws the Line: Kosovo, East Timor and the Standards of the West,” “Understanding Power: The Indispensable Chomsky,” “Manufacturing Consent” and “Letters From Lexington: Reflections on Propaganda.” He reminds us that genuine intellectual inquiry is always subversive. It challenges cultural and political assumptions. It critiques structures. It is relentlessly self-critical. It implodes the self-indulgent myths and stereotypes we use to elevate ourselves and ignore our complicity in acts of violence and oppression. And it makes the powerful, as well as their liberal apologists, deeply uncomfortable.

Chomsky reserves his fiercest venom for the liberal elite in the press, the universities and the political system who serve as a smoke screen for the cruelty of unchecked capitalism and imperial war. He exposes their moral and intellectual posturing as a fraud. And this is why Chomsky is hated, and perhaps feared, more among liberal elites than among the right wing he also excoriates. When Christopher Hitchens decided to become a windup doll for the Bush administration after the attacks of 9/11, one of the first things he did was write a vicious article attacking Chomsky. Hitchens, unlike most of those he served, knew which intellectual in America mattered. [Editor’s note: To see some of the articles in the 2001 exchanges between Hitchens and Chomsky, click here, here, here and here.]

“I don’t bother writing about Fox News,” Chomsky said. “It is too easy. What I talk about are the liberal intellectuals, the ones who portray themselves and perceive themselves as challenging power, as courageous, as standing up for truth and justice. They are basically the guardians of the faith. They set the limits. They tell us how far we can go. They say, ‘Look how courageous I am.’ But do not go one millimeter beyond that. At least for the educated sectors, they are the most dangerous in supporting power.”


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By Scared American, December 8, 2010 at 6:02 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

THE WRITING ON THE WALL


My great grandfather was a smart guy. He was a successful middle class German businessman with a small family - a wife and a daughter. An older daughter had died in the 1918 flu epidemic.

In Berlin of the early 1920s, things were starting to get weird. The economy was out of control. Unemployment was around 12%. There was a grass roots (they called it “volkisch”) movement that claimed a vast socialist and communist cabal was conspiring to destroy the country. The government was useless - a collection of ineffective bureaucrats that were beholden to corporations and arms manufacturers. It carried a huge debt, caused by a failed war. Many conservatives were drawn towards the reactionary/revolutionary right. There was some guy named Hitler who was starting to make a lot of noise amongst the right wing Germany First crowd. They blamed all their problems on Jews and lazy, decadent elements of society - homosexuals, foreigners, artists. Those people weren’t REAL Germans. They wanted their once great country back.

When I was about 12, I asked my great-grandmother why they left Germany when they did.  She showed me a bag full of useless money that they had with them when they left - a wheelbarrow full of cash was needed to buy a loaf of bread. Their once comfortable lifestyle had been reduced to almost nothing. They sold or gave away most of their things and booked passage to America. She told me,

“Fritz saw the writing on the wall”.

That phrase always stuck with me. I didn’t really know what she really meant by it until recently. The American government has stopped listening to what its people want and don’t care what they need. We tried electing a guy who would help us by standing up for the average American, but he has turned out to be a great disappointment. I hope that someday, if I manage to get out before it’s too late, my wife will be able to tell OUR great-grandchildren that their great-grandfather saw the writing on the wall. Peace and good luck to you all.

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By Daniel Simpson, May 30, 2010 at 11:52 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

When Truthdig interviewed Noam Chomsky in April, three activists who had respect for his work were disappointed. The article ignored how Chomsky persistently misrepresents Balkan war crimes, even though its author had risked his life to report them.

There are broader lessons for radicals here, about humanity, solidarity, and complexity. Western involvement in the wars of Yugoslav dissolution has confused many anti-imperialists, who still distort the facts to fit preconceptions. Though we’ve valued Chomsky’s insights on other subjects, from Israel and Palestine to propaganda, we’ve been forced to reappraise his analysis.

We’re not saying ignore Noam Chomsky. But from three different perspectives, we’re suggesting people read him as critically as he suggests reading The New York Times.

Roger Lippman
Daniel Simpson
Owen Beith

Our full response to this article is published here and here, with embedded hyperlinks:

http://danielsimpson.wordpress.com/2010/05/30/a-critical-chomsky-reader/
http://www.glypx.com/balkanwitness/chomsky-hedges.htm

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By Night-Gaunt, May 5, 2010 at 11:06 am Link to this comment

Here are just a few items covering the elusive topic of Dominonism for you Shenonymous. Some may be out of date.

“Religious Freedom Coalition Presents: Christian Reconstructionists- Theocratic Dominionism Gains Influence”
http://www.tylwythteg.com/enemies/reconstruct2.html

“Chalcedon-R.J.Rushdoony‘s site”
http://www.chalcedon.edu/articles/print.php (the horse’s mouth)

“Sara Palin: Dominionist Stalking Horse”
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/16323/559/495/5/9213

“Theocratic Sect Prays for Real Armageddon-AltNet
http://www.alternet.org/story/96945/?page=entire

There are many groups but the leaders don’t publicize themselves if they can help it. Their common goal is to remove our secular republic and replace it with a corporate theocracy and have gone to great lengths to bring us to this state we are in.

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By JDmysticDJ, May 4, 2010 at 7:05 am Link to this comment

Ofersince72

Regarding the catastrophe in the Gulf, it is what it is. I don’t think we know what it is yet.

A relatively insignificant sidelight of the incident is that BP had the good sense not to run its environmentally friendly commercial on “ABC’s This Week With…..” However, ABC did have BP’s #1 apologist on the show to play softball. Who says we have a corporate controlled news media?

If the current Catastrophe is payback, and we can rule out terrorism, one has to wonder, who, or what, is responsible for the payback?

It is what it is.

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By ofersince72, May 3, 2010 at 8:49 pm Link to this comment

Has anyone else noticed…that…
the media
does not mention a word,
can’t even find on the internet
how
this latest tragedy,
the oil gush,
how this affects
Mexico
Cuba

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Tennessee-Socialist's avatar

By Tennessee-Socialist, May 3, 2010 at 6:29 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous: Don’t be so sectarian, my friend, what we need in USA is a United-Front as a third party option as soon as possible as an option to the mafia cartels of the Democrats and Republicans who have destroyed the USA for hundreds of years.

And remember: The people united will never be defeated.  But if americans are divided, we will have no hope of change and will always be defeated

.

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By OzarkMichael, May 3, 2010 at 5:30 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie said: As for the violence they embody, I can only note that it is supported and applauded by large, non-Muslim, non-Marxist majorities as well.

The question is not about the extremes. Nor is it about violence. You are intentionally playing dumb. Or maybe you arent as smart as i thought you were.

Either way we arent going further on this.

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By Shenonymous, May 3, 2010 at 3:06 pm Link to this comment

It is called, JDmysticJD metapontification in the
jargon of the prepostpontificationism.

“As for the violence they embody, I can only note that it
is supported and applauded by large, non-Muslim,
non-Marxist majorities as well. ”
  Which large, non-Muslim,
non-Marxist marjorities, Anarcissie, would that be that applaud
the violence that Marxism and Islamic ideologically embody?  The
NueNeoMarxism as electronically embodied by Tennessee-Socialist his
servant, (ofersince72), that is. I think they have bodies.  If not,
then they are disembodieds.

“You didn’t finish it: “And they will castigated for it!””  You mean
“And they will be castigated for it!” ITW You forgot the
existential verb in your embellishment.  Aye, you might be right. But
maybe to be more emphatic, “They are castigated for it!” would be
more accurate?

Report this

By ofersince72, May 3, 2010 at 1:38 pm Link to this comment

If the professors from LSU and FSU

are correct about the magnitude of the “leak” (the gush),

the whole gulf coast is going to have to be evacuated.

Report this

By ofersince72, May 3, 2010 at 1:27 pm Link to this comment

Joe Hill noted..

  People forget whats written in pamphlets…
  they never forget a song, they learn it and sing it

It looks like Obama’s FCC chairman is going to cave
on Net-Neutrality.  What a bummer obama….

SKYTRUTH.  to find more about the leak it appears
      that it might just be five times the
      200,000 gals a day that has been reported
to OILDRUM.. to get a real technical idea of what has
        to be done and what their up against to
          stop the gushing.
This could end up being the worst natural disaster
we have ever known, worse than the russian nuc plant.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 3, 2010 at 1:16 pm Link to this comment

WATCH THESE 2 SONGS OF PROTEST BY TOM MORELLO FROM RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrBfPLUm5so&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN5Ce2z7gJ0&feature=player_embedded

Tom Morello will be celebrating May Day like the radical he is this year.

On April 30, Morello’s folk-singing alter ego the Nightwatchman will be playing at Chicago’s Bottom Lounge at a show put on by the Industrial Workers of the World.

From Rage Against the Machine to the Street Sweeper Social Club, Morello has survived and thrived as a rare breed in today’s musical landscape—a relentless proponent of grassroots struggles for democracy and justice.

Here, he talks to SocialistWorker.org’s Alexander Billet about the show, his work and the role that music has to play in fighting for a better world.

Workers & Labor
Tom Morello: “We need songs for right now” ( 0)  Print This ShareThisBy Alexander Billet interviews Tom Morello
Socialist Worker
Thursday, Apr 29, 2010


.


.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 3, 2010 at 12:33 pm Link to this comment

DEAR FRIENDS: The US economy is collapsing at a fast pace.  Americans are being layed-off, and most unemployed americans cannot find work.  People are real angry and sooner or later there will be a major uprising in USA.  Maybe Noam Chomsky thinks that angry rebels are evil Nazis.  That’s because Noam Chomsky is rich, and has 2 million dollars in his personal account.  But most americans do not have 2 million dollars like Chomsky.

Here is Larry Holmes from the Workers World Party about the next protest and struggle for the USA Labor Movement:

http://www.blip.tv/file/3517449


.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 3, 2010 at 12:14 pm Link to this comment

MY DEAR FRIENDS: Life in the USA like in most countries is the same. Life in USA and in most nations is hard for the majority of people, we cannot blame US citizens for lack of political knowledge, because other nations in this world are just like american citizens in their understanding of politics.  Most people in this world (Europe, Mexico, USA, etc.) do not have a clear understanding of how economics, and politics work.  And another thing is that most people are too physically tired, because most people have 2 jobs (Domestic chores like cooking, and regular jobs) so life is real hard for most citizens of this world.

Most people say that americans don’t know much about politics, but neither the french. In France people elected an oligarchic-neoliberal (Sarkozy) instead of the populist social-democrat party.  And in Mexico mexican-voters elected a corporate oligarchic elitist neoliberal candidate (Felipe Calderon) instead of the populist social-democrat (Lopez Obrador)

And in many other countries life is the same and people are the same all over the world, so the lack of political-knowledge doesn’t just happen in America, because life is the same for most people in this world, real hard, real stressful which blocks people getting into deep studies about politics and economics.


.

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By ofersince72, May 3, 2010 at 10:28 am Link to this comment

And all the colored girls go, do, de, do, de, do !!!!

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By JDmysticDJ, May 3, 2010 at 10:08 am Link to this comment

I was considering adding some serious pontification to this thread, but thankfully, I realized there is enough pontification on this thread already.

Personally, I find pontification to be tedious to compose, and to read. I only resort to pontification when I feel there is an urgent need for it, because it is so tedious.

I’ve noticed that some people seem to find pontificating to be a pleasurable pastime, and that their pontification is lengthy, elaborate, but sometimes convoluted.  It may be that convolution is necessary in order to heighten the pleasure, or to provide a further rationale for the enjoyable pastime.  To each, his or her own, far be it from me to interfere with a person’s pleasurable pastimes. But I must confess that when I come upon lengthy, elaborate, and convoluted pontificating, I tend to ignore it, because it is so tedious, lengthy, elaborate, and convoluted.

However, as a sometime pontificator, I do admire the tenacity of, and dedication to pontificating that is evident on this thread. When it comes to pontificating, I’ve never seen anything like this.

(This is tedious, I find myself pontificating on pontification.)

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By ofersince72, May 3, 2010 at 9:31 am Link to this comment

I won’t litter up Hedges new blog “No One Cares”.

Very few even know what the problems, thanks to major
media journalism.  It is evident right here on
Truth Dig.
They are going to keep everyone talking about
tea bags for the next two years, not discussing what
happened to Iraq and its citizens, or
the daily carnage of civilians in Afghan and Pakistan.
They are going to Hitlerize the president of Iran, they
already have started that and tell Americans to be scared,
that they are the saviors.
Hedges has feelings and believes for some silly reason
the American Public does, they don’t, all they care about
is their own ass,  the public will wake when it affects
them, only to find out while they sleeping, all the rights
that they thought they had,  are long gone..

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By Inherit The Wind, May 3, 2010 at 9:28 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, May 2 at 2:26 pm #

Blessed are the rational for they will understand their world.
***********************

You didn’t finish it: “And they will castigated for it!”

I use my few credit cards and pay them off every month. I go for no annual fee and figure the 3% they charge the merchant is ENOUGH profit for them for a short-term (one month or less) loan.  3% times 12 is STILL 36% interest—but they get it from the merchant, so he has to figure it into his cost basis.

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By Anarcissie, May 3, 2010 at 9:16 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael—I can’t say as I see much of a crossover between Marxism and Islam as ideologies, as sets of abstract theories.  As for the violence they embody, I can only note that it is supported and applauded by large, non-Muslim, non-Marxist majorities as well.  People select ideologies as a license for doing violence.  The poetry of the shadow of the swords was an instance: it is the shadow of swords which itself is paradise.

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By Leefeller, May 3, 2010 at 7:55 am Link to this comment

Offended by something;

At the local Methodist church some of the flock were upset
with paintings which to them were in their minds and
looked to them like phallic symbols! .................
beautiful paintings of Redwoods!

If I am going to be offended, it would be that the world
is full of morons and what is worse they get to vote.

Well the voting thing doesn’t really matter does it?

Report this

By omop, May 3, 2010 at 7:42 am Link to this comment

FORTY MILLION OF TAXPAYER’S DOLLARS CAN PAY FOR;

Medical treatments for thousands of veterans that are paralyzed, amputees,
their families, the homeless and otherwise destitutes.

    WHILE IN SAN DIEGO THE NEWS IS ABOUT.

    Cost To Mask Swastika-Shaped Complex Scrutinized

SAN DIEGO—The cost to fix a group of buildings in San Diego has
skyrocketed, 10News learned.

From the ground, a cluster of buildings on Naval Amphibious Base Coronado
look ordinary. However, from above the buildings are constructed to form a
swastika shape.

The buildings were supposed to have been modified nearly three years ago, but
the complex has not been touched.

“It’s hard to understand why this is taking so long. Am I angry? No. Am I
disappointed? Yes,” said Morris Casuto of the Anti-Defamation League.

Casuto was one of several community members who pressed the U.S. Navy to
do something about the design in 2007.

“It dishonors our service people to have them living in a building in the shape
of a swastika,” said Casuto.

As a result, the Navy’s plan was to spend $625,000 on a single-rooftop canopy
to mask the design. However, that plan was quickly scrapped because many
saw it as insufficient.

Navy officials told 10News it has a new, larger-scale plan to transform the
current buildings into a new design that would include a series of connections
to mask the swastika and at the same time create more square footage and
infrastructure to support rooms and additional sailors.

The price tag for the Navy’s latest proposal is between $17 million and $40
million, and it is to be submitted for the 2011 fiscal year.

“The price tag of $17 million to $40 million just doesn’t make any sense to me,
and as a taxpayer it’s just irresponsible,” said Rhonda Deniston of Oceanside-
based watchdog group Stop Taxing Us.

A former member of the military, Deniston said she is sympathetic toward
those who are offended by the design, but also finds the proposed cost of the
Navy’s plan “offensive.”

“It’s a perfect example of what taxpayers are talking about right now within not
only the federal level, but also the state and local level, that money is being
spent in incredibly irresponsible ways,” added Deniston.

But what many find most surprising is that Navy officials did not become aware
of the design until after the 1967 groundbreaking and decided not to do
anything then.

“It seems to me that it is virtually impossible to believe that no one noticed that
shape,” said Casuto.

ONLY THE ADL DID?

Anybody ever seen anything like this?

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By ofersince72, May 2, 2010 at 9:52 pm Link to this comment

Public Law 107-40

if you read this law,  you will understand why
they have to keep the premise that Bin Ladin is
still alive.
You will also understand why they had to say al queda
was in Iraq when it wasn’t.

The way I read that law,  if bid ladin is dead
we are against our OWN law, not only international law.

Report this

By ofersince72, May 2, 2010 at 8:47 pm Link to this comment

If one cares to watch a really gross video depicting
  imperialism GO TO. YOU TUBE AND WATCH

  Iraq Green Zone Getting Casinos In Bagdad.

  Listen to the young man make an arse of himself

Report this

By ofersince72, May 2, 2010 at 6:19 pm Link to this comment

The very last two people, the ones that should
  not even have been at the bottom of the list, not even
  on the list….

  to guide Haiti….

  are the two that the president picked.

  We have so much untapped talent in this country
  and those two are the ones we come up with to straighten
  out a country,  the two that had their hands in
  destroying this one. What a dark, dark, comedy of
  errors… Not so funny for some though.

Report this

By ofersince72, May 2, 2010 at 5:58 pm Link to this comment

This is what nobody has wanted to admit for the
  last forty years,  more than that, we could go back
  to R. Carson’s warnings, or even D.H. Thoreau, but
  no need to,  we lost our chance in the sixties to
  right the ecology ship, the oceans were already well
  polluted back then and their were already alarmists
  warning of the atmospheric C02 problem that was coming.

  THAT IT IS   THE   ECOLOGY STUPID not the eCONomy

  CLINTON,,  YOU WERE THE DUMBASS AND SOB
for not at least trying to right the ship after the
ugly ,  ugly eighties.

Report this

By ofersince72, May 2, 2010 at 5:50 pm Link to this comment

Another year that we lost half of the beehives

  Einstein noted,  that man will be gone five years
            after we see the last honey bee.

  This is what we get when economy takes precedence
  over ecology.

  So lets keep voting economists into office and
  belittleing ecologists.  This idea has worked out
  real well for us over the last forty years hasn’t it.

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By OzarkMichael, May 2, 2010 at 2:01 pm Link to this comment

Tennessee Socialist said: Lotta’s speech will be substantive and potentially transformative for all who hear it, and it must be made a VERY BIG DEAL. The buzz should spread about a revolutionary who is serious about overturning the verdict on communism and has the facts, the analysis, and the passionate commitment to humanity’s liberation to back it up.

There is a church where every weekday they announce that the preaching is going to reveal truths that have been shrouded in mystery for thousands of years and that miracles are going to happen… “all coming up this Sunday”.

This claim (with minor variations) is made afresh every week. Always a VERY BIG DEAL. Now I dont mind that a church is praying and working towards these goals. And i hope they attain something. But every week? To announce a ‘new breakthrough’ every week is a bit much.

One small nugget of truth can be more than enough of a “breakthrough” to last an entire lifetime, because it is not easy to keep it in our hearts and live it. For we must daily live what we know, or we dont really know it after all.

It is like that with your socialism. Your announcements and links are always grand, exceptional, and important. Because of my years of experience with that church, I know you will never tire of posting more videos and announcing more breakthroughs.

The weekly parade of breakthroughs and miracles does not impress, it has the opposite effect. My brain knows better and my heart is dismayed. Instead of wanting to be part of it, I am put off.

You will hold my attention better if there is a   truth that you live by. Not someone else. You. Currently you are a conduit for socialist advertisements. I have news for you: nobody likes watching commercials.

Is there some small nugget of real truth that has hold of you? That is in your heart and not in someone else’s video? That changes how you live your life? I would like to know.

One small truth in your heart is sufficient for a lifetime. If you have that, why not talk about it?  We may not agree with you but probably we would all be more interested.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 2, 2010 at 11:15 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous: my dear friend, even though you think i hate you, you are wrong, i like you, because you and every one here are victims of the monopoly-capitalist oligarchic class (2% American Oligarchy), of the Military Industrial Complex which Eisenhower and JFK warned us about, of the Israeli Lobby, and all the corporate lobbies, and of the Democrat Party and Republican Party which have destroyed the USA economy.

We are all here suffering from increased gasoline prices, increased food prices, increased utility fees (cable-tv, electricty, phone, water, insurance fees, etc.) of lower supply of jobs in the job market, and of lower living standards as a result of the US dollar-devaluation.

And i think that the USA won’t change at all in our near future.  United States will still be ruled by mafia-cartels for many more years to come. 

So i think that my best tip to you is to get your children into book-reading, motivate them into reading-habits, and try to get them away from playstations, nintendos, etc. so that they have good knowledge and good reading skills in order to suceed in college education when they are older.  And even though i am socialist, i am a realist, not an utopian.  So the only solution i see for people right now is to wish for a change but at the same time to accept the reality of the oligarchic corporate capitalist system, and to get good college degree for your children and relatives.

Because in this corporate oligarchic world, college degrees can be the only thing that can save children in their future.  We won’t have a social-revolution any time soon, so we must concentrate on our own education, and of our loved ones, to secure good jobs in the future.

.

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By ofersince72, May 2, 2010 at 11:13 am Link to this comment

I wonder if losing the manufacturing base in this
  country and that the capitol is ending up in
  the top 10% , is a conspiracy theory.

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By ofersince72, May 2, 2010 at 11:10 am Link to this comment

“The new governments are dedicated to establishing
  democratic political institutions but are hampered
  because of lack of experience , little investment
  capitol…”

  I only wish that the U.S. was dedicated to
  estabishing a democratic political institution, but
  it has little to no experience,  and NO investment
  capitol.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 2, 2010 at 10:55 am Link to this comment

WATCH THIS VIDEO BY RAYMOND LIOTTA, LEADER OF THE REVOLUTIONARY COMMUNIST PARTY OF USA (RCP USA), ON THE TRUTH OF EVIL CAPITALIST SYSTEM AND SOCIALISM AS THE ONLY SOLUTION

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms99-3Nj81I&feature=player_embedded


This fall teams of revolutionaries will be hitting campuses around the country—challenging those who have been lied to about communism, those who have been told that the horror of this capitalist-imperialist system is “the best of all possible worlds.”

A centerpiece of these efforts to bring revolution to the campuses will be a major speech by Raymond Lotta. Lotta’s speech will be substantive and potentially transformative for all who hear it, and it must be made a VERY BIG DEAL. The buzz should spread about a revolutionary who is serious about overturning the verdict on communism and has the facts, the analysis, and the passionate commitment to humanity’s liberation to back it up. Those who are attracted to the idea of communism but who’ve been told “it can never work” should know this is the place to come and ask their toughest questions. Opposition from reactionaries should be turned around and made part of the growing controversy and sense that Lotta’s speech must be heard and engaged. All those who consider themselves progressive critics of the current order but who use their “radical” or even “Marxist” credentials to rule real revolution off the table should be compelled—by the overall atmosphere and expectations created campus-wide—to bring their best arguments and put them up against what Lotta will have to say.

The following is the leaflet announcing the first stop on this tour, on October 8, at the University of California, Berkeley:

EVERYTHING YOU’VE BEEN TOLD ABOUT COMMUNISM IS WRONG
CAPITALISM IS A FAILURE
REVOLUTION IS THE SOLUTION

Thursday, October 8, 2009
4:00 pm - 6:30 pm
Lipman Room, 8th floor of Barrows Hall on the UC Berkeley campus

(Barrow Lane & Eshleman Road)

info: Revolution Books, 510-848-1196, .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address), http://www.revolutionbooks.org

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By Shenonymous, May 2, 2010 at 10:42 am Link to this comment

1. This topic…
It would appear that your remedy has some merit elisalouisa.  But
it might be overoptimistic to think people would refrain from using
credit-cards and not pay the balances off monthly (which is really a
good idea).  If only people were convinced to live more austerely.  The
seduction to use them beyond their ability to pay them off monthly I
believe is too great, and I think you acknowledge that in your
comments.  The American People are composed of many suckers, which
is why they have credit-cards in the first place. I include myself but saw
the light and saved myself from the abyss.  So you don’t think socialists
wouldn’t have credit cards? 

The people of Socialist Vietnam uses credit cards, with cash advances
available.  Cuba has credit card availability.  China has VISA available.

Informaworld article: “Privatization in eight former socialist countries of
eastern Europe”
Published in:  International Journal of Public Administration,
Volume 8, Issue 6, 1995 , pages 941 - 985

The demise of the communism in the former Soviet Union and the
satellites of Eastern Europe has created a massive shift in the
economies of these countries. The new governments are dedicated to
establishing democratic political institutions and free market
economies, but are hampered because of lack experience, little
investment capital, and inertia of their constituents in the work force
Each state is undertaking the changes differently and after
approximately three years into the process, it is possible to see more
progress in some countries than in others. Here, we present a brief
political and economic statement followed by analysis of the
privatization process in Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, Poland,
Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Russia, and Ukraine as of the end of 1992
and early 1993.

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By Shenonymous, May 2, 2010 at 10:38 am Link to this comment

2. This topic…
What seems to be an excellent article to this non-economics
major, more on the problem in Greece (copy/paste the link):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/feb/07/greece-fiscal-
crisis-european-union-euro

Like most of Europe, pride in their ineptitude interferes with solving
their financial woes. A mixture of incompetence and deceit, the Greeks
let their deficit to balloon out of control, putting the credibility of
monetary union at risk. A very complex issue, their resistance to a
single currency and unification with the eurozone, has decidedly been a
handicapping feature. “A ­crisis that began with the previous ­[“Socialist”]
government in Athens cooking the books developed into three
interlocking themes – the reluctance of the Greeks to swallow the nasty
budgetary medicine prescribed for them, the medium-term outlook for
the single currency, and Europe’s long-term role in a rapidly changing
global economy.”

The IMF would probably already be involved were Greece outside the
eurozone. But according to Charles Grant, director of the Centre for
European Reform, the commission wants to keep the fund at arm’s
length because it would give the Americans a say in single currency
affairs, a blow to European pride.

For the Greek public last week, it barely mattered whether the harsh
measures were coming from their own government, the commission,
the fund or a mixture of all three. All they knew was that they did not
fancy higher taxes on fuel, working longer to get their pensions and, if
they were civil servants, taking a 10% pay cut.

Similarly, trade unions in Spain ­bridled at plans announced by Prime
Minister José Luis Rodriguez Zapatero to increase the number of years
workers would have to make contributions before receiving state
pensions. Still reeling from the effects of the global recession of the
past two years, Greece, Spain and Portugal now face a prolonged period
of weak growth and high unemployment.

Some argue that the cuts being inflicted on the eurozone’s weaker
economies highlight a fundamental weakness in the single currency –
its lack of a centralised budgetary mechanism, such as exists in the US,
to move resources from rich parts of the union to poor parts.
Gerard Lyons, chief economist at Standard Chartered, says there have
been several examples of monetary unions that have collapsed because
they were not accompanied by fiscal union: “For monetary union to
survive, it has to become a political union. If it doesn’t there is likely to
be some sort of implosion and a move towards a two-speed Europe.”
Seeing the global problem in real perspective, there are unsettling
parallels between Argentina’s catastrophic decade from 1991 to 2001. 
That financial fiasco ended in massive default, and reflects Greece’s
recent and impending difficulties. The main difference is that Greece is
far more indebted, is much less competitive in global markets, and
needs a commensurately greater fiscal and wage adjustment.

Greece’s public debt was 114% at the end of 2009.  It is expected to
rise to 150% b 2012.  Interest payments, meaning credit card interest
will be abut 9% of Greek’s total income which would be sent out of the
country to Germany, France, and Switzerland.  So a less than zero sum
situation for Greece.

The Greeks have had an “austerity” program which it is said is striking
only for its lack of credibility.  The idea that people will actually live
austerely when credit cards are available, even in socialist countries, is
a myth.

And Spain is a worse problem.

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By Shenonymous, May 2, 2010 at 10:26 am Link to this comment

Blessed are the rational for they will understand their world.

Blessed are the sound of mind for they will rationally take care
of their world.

Obama only nine days to respond. .. pretty good.
ofersince72  So, you are a Republican shill!  Leefeller
was prescient in his secular deityness (sorry to refer to little people,
Oh 3 foot high, 300 lbs. wide one.  It is one thing to flail around
reacting to situations and another to see what the actual situation
is.  Keeping Obama informed by the Coast Guard and HSD agency
chiefs what was happening, it was not clear exactly what the magnitude
was.  So the entire government was to be frozen whilst attending to an
unknown quantity?  He was attending to matters of state not personal
entertainments.  He wasn’t playing an appointed basketball game.  You
remind me of the little student who screams bloody murder at the sign
of a small scratch.  If not taken care of, of course it could fester, but
the spill was being dealt with as well as it could be.  The fact that BP
has had a history of spills and fires are the facts that have to be dealt
with.  This spill was not known to be a rated disaster of a 9 out of a 10
immediately.  It is a blowout over 5,000 feet below the surface as it is
said to be gushing from the sea floor.  Reactive screeching is so typical
of those scraping the bottom of the pig pen to find something to
criticize American-born Obama for

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By OzarkMichael, May 2, 2010 at 9:52 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie, the two links which you offered a few days ago were somewhat helpful.

I quote from the two links(one or the other) what Newell said in 2001:

What the terrorists have in common with our armchair nihilists is a belief in the primacy of the radical will, unrestrained by traditional moral teachings such as the requirements of prudence, fairness, and reason.

Newell spoke of how al Qaeda is the latest in a long line of grimly punitive utopias. I take your point. Comparisons can be made between any extremists and not just al Qaeda/Marxist. And as you say, with some work we can add in anyone who we dont like.

Obviously I did not make the scope of my comparison clear to you. Yet I am disappointed that you took the easy, concrete, outdated, unintended meaning and not the deeper, relevant, and intended one.

Yes, the striking combination of Islamic terrorist imagery and Marxist doctrine is what opened my post. I originally wrote a much longer post, but pruned it back, unfortunately editing out the transitional statement which made it more clear: it is the broader alliance that is of interest. For it is obvious that T.S is merely on the fringe of the Left. It is also obvious that al Qaeda is on the fringe of Islam. I didnt explain that. Did it really need to be explained?

Let me say it in black and white: Political Islam(a broad movement which is not violent) and the Left(broadly speaking) have become closely aligned. That is the issue, and it is the important development, somewhat unexpected and not well understood by anyone.

Anarcissie responded: with a little effort anyone else one doesn’t like could be hooked in, for example tree-huggers, bicyclists, or Guatemalans.  Whatever.

True. But with a little effort one could penetrate to the harder questions and grapple with the larger world.

It is objectionable in the MSM and especially in Truthdig to admit that there is such a thing as “Political Islam”. Here we see that there really is a ‘War on Language’. For some reason we do not name or discuss the most influential political movement on the planet. As an aside… the powers-that-be have recently banned a few terms from our already scarce vocabulary of extremist Islam, and this spills into our corresponding paucity of terms to deal with Political Islam.

So it is difficult to introduce the topic and I confess that i mumbled instead of clarified it.  There are no common tools(words) to explore Political Islam, let alone to study its interface with the West.

Many Leftists believe Europe is ahead of us culturally. We see the alignment between Political Islam and the Left to be further advanced in Europe than we do in the USA. There are news stories that highlight this every week. They should alarm you.

The alignment between the Left and Political Islam has important implications. Whether this alignment compromises any principles that the Left holds dear, and whether the Left will profit from this… is interesting and important especially if you are a Leftist. But nothing is said about it on Truthdig. The lack of curiousity among people assumed to be fine intellectuals is disappointing.

I would have been pleased to contribute(assisting but with a few barbs thrown in) if you wanted to explore it.

As I made clear in my original post, I am not going to break my head over this topic, which means I will not undertake a solo effort to explain it, especially for the unwilling. Instead, every now and then I shall enjoy stirring up the confusion that a little flash of light produces among those in a dark room.

By the way, anyone is free to quote the Koran. Ofersince72 made a tangential argument, defending the right to quote it. I am not against anyone quoting Koran, that was not the point of my post.

Without intellectual curiosity one cannot differentiate between an attack and an observation,  or between the superficial and the profound.

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By Anarcissie, May 2, 2010 at 9:50 am Link to this comment

As to the constituents of the ruling class and their relationships, it’s pretty hard to get broad, reliable information.  Some of it is public, for instance, you can map the “interlocking directorates” of large corporations, but in many areas those who have power see no benefit in making their persons, relationships, or activities public and take care of conceal them as much as practically possible.  Government and corporate secrecy help.

At one time I thought the Nader-inspired public interest research groups (PIRGs) were finding and collecting this kind of information.  It could be of great value for activists.  However, looking at the current Wikipedia articles I get the sense that the movement has been co-opted.

The mystification surrounding political power inevitably leads to conspiratism, such as allegations that the Jews or the Saturnian ant men really control everything, which we can observe right in this discussion.

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By ofersince72, May 2, 2010 at 9:27 am Link to this comment

Reverend, Your dream wasn’t only deferred,
it was blown up , smashed, crushed…

then recited every year by both black and white
politicians.

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By ofersince72, May 2, 2010 at 8:35 am Link to this comment

I beg your pardon,,, it is a huge gigantic
  free lunch for Wall Street.

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By ofersince72, May 2, 2010 at 8:28 am Link to this comment

UK Telegraph

The oil may be leaking at five times the rate
than the 5000 barrels a day reported, that is
25,000 barrels a day.

  Obama only nine days to respond. .. pretty good.

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By ofersince72, May 2, 2010 at 8:13 am Link to this comment

Blessed are the peacemakers , for they shall be
called the children of God.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

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By elisalouisa, May 2, 2010 at 8:04 am Link to this comment

If you really want to outsmart the corporations/banks you’ll have plenty of credit-cards.The secret is to pay your Credit-card off every month.  Most Credit-cards offer their holders discounts galore, coupons giving a certain percentage off if you use their Credit-card are common as are offers of airline miles, special
deals, advance notice as to sales, etc. As has been said on these threads the advantage of capitalism is that borrowing is allowed.We can all borrow, most of all our nation, with a unique way of repaying. Free will, advocated on these threads, should allow you to say “Thanks but no
thanks” to the capitalists who entice you into buying items you cannot afford. Experts hired by corporations/banks to tell them what will or will not entice you to spend make it a safe bet for them that you’ll take the freebies, and forget the fact that you are spending more than you have.  Since “sucker” is a
term often used on these threads I feel free to also use that term; the “suckers” who don’t have the “free will” to say “no” to any enticing thing the capitalists put out there and are unable to foot the bill when due are the ones who pay. Exception: Many people, because of job loss and/or easy credit who are in need of basic everyday items may find their credit-cards the only way to go. That’s where the cruelty of capitalism comes it. They buy basic items on credit and are charged hefty monthly fees for that borrowing. The less fortunate again foot the bill. Such are the ways of capitalism so advocated on these threads. So remember, if you really want to outsmart the corporations, keep and get more credit cards not debit cards, use that free will to only buy what you can afford, take the freebies they offer and pay when due remembering there is no free lunch.

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By Shenonymous, May 2, 2010 at 7:50 am Link to this comment

No no no no no….not Batman, but his ersatz evil twin, the
Diabolitical-Batman (D-B for short, since T-S
loves hyphenation).  I will clarify.  You attempt to elevate
your status, you must sign your name as Diabolitical Robin,
ofersince72,
since you represent only the second but
lesser half of the evil dynamic duo wannabees who would
enslave the world. Signing only as Robin is plaigarism.  Now what I
wonder is what will happen when the Neo-Communists (N-Cs)who want
to enslave the world meet up with the Militant Islalmists M-I’s)who also
want to enslave the world?  As it is an inexorable meet up.  It will
happen.  The N-C’s are allegedly atheists (who often prostitute religion
for their own depraved purposes, whist the M-I’s are putatively
followers of Allah (who also prostitute the Qur’an for their own hideous
purposes).  Which group is more lethal?  Hopefully they will meet up
soon and annihilate each other before the rest of us get their wrath.  I
wonder if the rest of us can arrange a meeting?  An assignation?

But in a pinch, Frick and Frack are good substitutes.  You are ice
skaters, aren’t you?

Okay, okay, maybe I assigned names too quickly.  Okay, T-S is D-B,
and Osama bin Laden is the Maniacal bin Robin Hood.  I’ll go with that. 

Havana nice day.

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By ofersince72, May 2, 2010 at 7:32 am Link to this comment

“Labor is prior to and independent of, capitol.
  Capitol is only the fruit of labor and could
  never have existed if labor had not existed.
  Labor is superior to capitol, and deserves much
  higher consideration.”

  Abraham Lincoln

I would add, get rid of an economic and employment
system that survives only because of destruction
death and thievery.  Robin

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By ofersince72, May 2, 2010 at 6:17 am Link to this comment

Tennessee,

You are now The Batman…..

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By ofersince72, May 2, 2010 at 6:08 am Link to this comment

“What does labor want?

We want more school houses and less jails; more books
and less arsenals; more learning and less vice; more
leisure and less greed; more justice and less revenge;
in fact, more of the opportunities which cultivate our
better nature.”

Samual Gompers

I would add ,  an economic and employment system that
isn’t based on destruction, murder, and thievery.
ROBIN….......but not robbing…...

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By Leefeller, May 2, 2010 at 4:50 am Link to this comment

Though I do not find the term “little people”
endearing, I too have been dumping me credit cards. 
Since my income has gone down dramatically; the good
thing is; I spend much less. 

It should be noted the cut back on peoples income may
help the obesity problem in this country, I find now I
eat only one Super Big Mac instead of three and may skip
the fries for a milk shake. I prefer to eat healthy
because I will loose my health insurance in August.

Not sure if our money is worth less or the price of the
essentials of life have gone up? Like Tequila and beer
and has anyone noticed the higher price of spam and
potato chips lately?

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By Shenonymous, May 2, 2010 at 1:29 am Link to this comment

The Frick and Frack of this forum, Tennessee-Socialist
and sidekick ofersince72 are quite the dynamic duo,
like a diabolical Batman and Robin of the Neo-Communist
Set, or are they the maniacal Robin Hood and Maid Marian,
telling us what we “need” in a most fascistic way. I hope they
have umbrellas as they twilight dream on and on and on and on…

ITW, ergo, all nations have a trade surplus of some kind.  The
credit-card enterprise is the major evil in this country and sorely needs
regulation or crumbled out of existence.  What if the entire world were
credit-card free?  Imagine what the world would be like then.  The little
people are the ones that can do it, like you and me cutting up our
cards and telling them to shove it where the sun don’t shine.  10 Yups
for that one.  It was scarce-city for me for a while in terms of
negotiable currency but I lived frugally through it and now I use only
cash, via debit cards, checks to pay for everything except for that one
small balance card in case of an emergency.  As it is now, a few
establishments and Internet purchases will only take a credit card for
payment. I think that is the one act The American People can do that
will get back at the corportocracy.  That is their power.  That is the
best kind of weapon.  Fuck the AK whatevers and pistolas, which would
only go to enrich the armaments industry (and therein is a devious
reason to encourage violent action).  I can’t calculate easily how much
I’ve saved by not buying via a credit card.  Yes those 30% increase in
fees is what did it for me too!  I told one company, just like you did to
stuff it.

Maybe we should start an anti-credit-card campaign?  I suppose we
would be called fascist pigs but think of all the bacon we would have.

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By Shenonymous, May 2, 2010 at 1:21 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie said - “Getting burned for awhile on
American paper is just one cost of doing business while
the next arrangement—the next game—is being set up.”
 

The question is, what could be the next game to anticipate? 
Isn’t winning the game a matter of being able to anticipate the
opponent’s next move? 12 moves?

Wanting to know exactly who the reified American Elite are, I googled
“Who are the American Elite?” Pickings were scant because the word
elite has many uses, and after a few pages of the 34,000,000 results, I
found one document dated 1927 that is more or less a record of the
American Elite, that is, best families of that year.  I didn’t really
want to see all 34 million items!  Anyway, that was 93 years ago, but it
gave a peek at what might be called the American Elite.  Below is the
link.  It lists what was known as America’s foremost living leaders of
Social and Industrial Life and Thought.  Included is the preface that
explains what position in society these people hold and the language
was most telling about the reverence given to these people of “high”
standing.  Copy/paste the link

http://www.archive.org/stream/americanelitesoc00herr/americaneliteso
c00herr_djvu.txt

“Here presented in one volume is a galaxy of Twenty-Thousand
representative members of Elite Clubs, Societies, Associations,
Institutions and Organizations prominent in the Social, Industrial and
Financial Development of Life, Thought and progress in the various
lines of endeavor trending to the betterment of society.

These representative Citizens of character and influence, by their
enterprise and thrift, by their activity and sagacity in business, and by
their zeal in educational, social, and public matters, have contributed
vastly to the moral, spiritual and material prosperity of the community
in which they live.

Sociology is an attempt to account for the origin, growth, structure and
activities of human society, by the operators of physical, vital and
psychical causes, working together in a process of evolution.

As Builders and Merchants, they have erected buildings which
illuminated the marts of trade; in the field of Science and Medicine they
have produced men of thought and men of action, while at the Bar and
in the administration of Justice they have shown erudition and wisdom.
As Clergymen, Educators and Lecturers they have occupied high places;
as Artists, Musicians and Authors they have contributed profusely to
social life; and last but not least, as Members of Clubs, Societies,
Associations and other Organizations, they have been an invaluable
factor in the uplift of thought and progress in all lines of human
achievements.

We feel confident that this authentic collection of America’s
foremost living leaders of Social and Industrial Life and Thought
will be and invaluable acquisition to current literature, and will meet
with a hearty welcome at the hands of an intelligent public.”
 

These are who populated “our” rarified elite strata then.  I suppose
every society, regardless of how wealthy or even how poor would have
its class divisions.  We need an updated list so that we may contact
them to see if they meet and what they plan to do with America.

The reference to Nietzsche was partly a response to the comment about
postmodernism and the esoteric language that is ubiquitously
fashionable to describe the dynamics and implications of “culture” most
applied to criticizing the habits of capitalists, or those who trade for
profit.  The term was more or less meaningful when it was originally
applied to various exotic elements that resulted in an extreme variation
in the architecture of the 60s but became a “cool” expression to
describe a political anti-orthodoxy of also more or less fragmented
strata of society above the working class.  Fragmentation seems to be
the key term left of its original invention.

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By ofersince72, May 1, 2010 at 11:16 pm Link to this comment

Makeup for the remake…..of course, election cycle
                    propaganda

Schumer’s campaign “disclosure” bill,  will do nothing
              to address campaign finance reform
Mcgovern. Jones…  withdrawal timetable from Afghan
              will do nothing to get us out.
              (most that vote for this will
              keep voting for funding)
financial reform   will not address crime on Wall street

This is all window dressings, perfume for the masses,
              for the Democrat remake
No matter how much perfume they use, they will still
stink,  all more electioneering.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 1, 2010 at 7:54 pm Link to this comment

AMERICANS NEED TO CREATE A UNITED JEFFERSONIAN SOCIALIST FRONT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE

“It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a Free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even of his personal services to the defense of it.”  -George Washington

“The great men are necessary, the time in which they appear is accidental; that they almost always become masters over their age is only because they are stronger, because they are older, because for a longer time much was gathered for them.” -Twilight of the Idols

“Under capitalism the exploited masses do not, nor can they ever, really participate in governing the country, if for no other reason than that, even under the most democratic regime, under conditions of capitalism, governments are not set up by the people but by the Rothschilds and Stinneses, the Rockefellers and Morgans.” -Joseph Stalin.  The Foundations of Leninism

i am thinking about the need in USA of a United Jeffersonian-Socialist Front (A United-Front) composed of small socialist and alternative anti-war, anti-fascism, anti-rich people, anti-upper classes, anti-concentration of wealth, pro-workers, pro-economic democracy, pro-moralism, pro-humanism, pro-egalitarianism parties in USA.  This is just an idea in my mind which i will suggest to some socialist political leaders of this country, to see what they think about it, it might be called “United Jeffersonian-Socialist Front”, which would be based on the humanist christian traditions of: Jefferson, Lincolnia, Washington, New Testament Social Doctrine of The Bible, Marx, Trotsky, Lenin, and anti-neoliberalism, anti-NAFTA, economic-nationalism, participative-democracy, Bolivarian-Socialism of the XXI Century ideology, And which would include the following political parties, politicians and independent intellectuals: The green party, Ralph Nader, Socialist Party of USA, Socialist equality party, workers party, The Labor Party, green party, Ralph Nader, Cindy Sheehan, Ray Mcgovern, David Ray Griffin, Noam Chomsky Cynthia Mckinney, James Petras, Michael Hudson, Bill Van Auken (President of the Socialist Equality Party), Amy Goodman, Juan Gonzalez, Juan Cole, Seymor Hersh, Chalmers Johnson, Alan Maass, Michael Parenti, Alexander Cockburn, Paul Craig Roberts, Tariq Ali, Jimmy Carter, Chris Hedges, and many other americans who are moralists, humanists, altruists, and rational human beings.

However this is just an idea in my mind, a work in progress, its is still a utopia and a dream, not realized and materialized yet.  I still have to propose this idea to some of the leaders in the US progressive and humanist anti-zionism, anti-war movement.  It would be a United Front in solidarity with the Bolivarian Revolution, The Iraqui Revolution, The Palestinian Revolution, The Iran government, The Evo Morales Revolution, the Cuban anti-Imperialist revolution and all movements, liberation churches, and just anybody who has good intentions and morality in this world.

.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 1, 2010 at 7:15 pm Link to this comment

She:
It’s simply not possible for EVERY nation to consume more than it produces.  It’s a physical impossibility.

And I’ve canceled two credit cards in the last year.  One was a CITI bank card—they just jacked the interest rate up to 30% because they thought they could—26% ON TOP of prime!  I told them no, and they said “OK. 7%. But only for 7 months.”  I said “cancel the card.’ Done.  B of A did something weirder.  Without consulting me, they converted a Visa to an American Express card, with a HUGE annual fee.  When I called in they didn’t even recognize the old number anymore! I said “WTF did you do? and why?” they said “it has points. we want to encourage you to use the card!” 

I said “by changing it without asking my permission?? I HAVE an American Express card, and a better one than you have. I’ll NEVER use yours. Cancel it!” I got a lot of “but, but, buts”, but too bad.  I had that card for 30 years and dropped it without a moment’s hesitation.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 1, 2010 at 7:01 pm Link to this comment

HEY YOU ALL THE USA ECONOMY IS BANKRUPT, USA IS GOING TO FACE A HYPERINFLATIONARY MELTDOWN, REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS HAVE DESTROYED AMERICA. IT IS TIME FOR SOCIALISM. WATCH THIS VIDEO BY THE WORKERS WORLD PARTY ECONOMIST

http://workers.blip.tv/file/3345574/


.

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By Anarcissie, May 1, 2010 at 6:04 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, May 1 at 1:56 pm:


‘Surely Hu Jintao was jesting.  But not really.  He sees a good deal when he sees one….’

I don’t think he was jesting.  But the situation is like the poker-game joke which ends, ‘Yeah, but it’s the only game in town!’

Just guessing, but I think the Chinese plan is to build industrial plant through export, then transition to a more consumer-driven economy (unless they plan to ‘export’ war and imperialism, which is always a possibility with any powerful state.  Let us hope not.)  Getting burned for awhile on American paper is just one cost of doing business while the next arrangement—the next game—is being set up.

I don’t know what the American ruling class’s plans are.  They are smart enough to know about things not going on forever regardless of the goofy optimism of the folk.  I guess the short-term, smash’n'grab guys have palaces set up in the Cayman Islands, but what is the plan of the lifers?  Are they going to bail out or ride it down?  I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

Was the stuff about Nietzsche supposed to relate to anything I’ve written recently?  I remember only saying that I read him for the poetry.

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By Leefeller, May 1, 2010 at 10:12 am Link to this comment

Name droppings seem to be an American pass time. I pass my
time looking for names to drop!

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By Shenonymous, May 1, 2010 at 9:56 am Link to this comment

Surely Hu Jintao was jesting.  But not really.  He sees a good
deal when he sees one.  The Chinesse don’t bet their money
like Arabs at a Las Vegas casino.  Of course he could invest
in his own people!????  But that is not what the Chinese as
communists did so why would they as capitalists?

It is awfully funny, comically funny, not peculiarly funny, that self-
styled intellectuals always strut out criticisms of postmodernism
postmarxism post structuralism and post this post that to hail the
death of this or that ideology and most naturally to parade their, uh,
well…intellectualism. 

I‘ve been hearing this assault on rational thinking, no rape of rational
thinking, for decades especially as I remember when a new hire from
Texas University came prancing on tiptoes and vocalizing post-
marxism this and postmodernism that as a form of intending to
impress everyone in the department with her half-lidded worldliness to
put to shame what she thought were provincial academics.  Baudrillard
and Nietzsche were her darlings of the moment. 

It is always so pretentious to drag out these two thinkers as knowing
more than the cat who is waiting to eat the mouse, but somehow the
mouse gets away.  Go figure.

Academics are always in the business of justifying their jobs and hence
the publish or perish imperative leads to speculation beyond
speculation in order to dazzle colleagues who would judge whether one
should keep one’s job or not at least until tenure is earned.  This
practice engenders an intellectualism and fanciful theories, I mean
there are only so many ways to peel an orange, aren’t there.  No, one
can peel an orange many many ways such as while standing on the
New York Times being used as a rug for wet shoes from coming in out
of the rain, or whilst watching the most banal of television shows.

For some reason, which is almost unfathomable, there is a seduction of
the unreasonable, the edge of insanity holds a fascination for the not
quite close as much to the edge and those who try to understand the
phenomenon.

Such is it with Nietzsche, a truly unfortunate individual who was not
able to enjoy the fruits of his insights.  There are reasons why.  Insanity
got in the way. 

There can be unending discussion about postmodernism, as it is an
entertainment of sorts, but first an dialogue on modernism would be
required, then post Marxism, post structuralism and of course anarchy
and post anarchy. I am most interested in the latter.  Which I would be
more than happy to enter into.

So you are pretty much on a frolic of your own conjecture?  Okay, fair
enough and fair that you say so, Anarcissie, when it comes to the
financial state of the nation.

If Americans are incorrigibly optimistic it is because they are
incorrigible.  At the end of all their possible experiments, even science
has to rely on faith.  Albeit with much investigative data at hand, but
faith nevetheless.  Which is where I prefer to be, with evidence such as
it is.

“The next crash,” another doomsday saying.  I am not so gloomy.  I
could be as outrageous a predictor and say, hmmmmm, rubbing my
invisible beard, maybe there won’t be one!  that is really optimistic, I’d
say maybe a dip but never a real crash.

5 Yups there is a lot of bad stuff out there, but there is also a lot of
good stuff.  Which will triumph?  Time is the orator?

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By Leefeller, May 1, 2010 at 9:46 am Link to this comment

Sincerity of those who would promote by insult, dost seem
questionable. 

It is possible to tout a cause which is not a cause for
that has been seen on occasion. GOP has been known to
create, web sites seemingly humanist or liberal in nature,
using them for exploiting and practiced manipulation.

Tennessee could potentially be a Republican shrill?  After
all anything socialist to them leads to mean; well .....
exactly what Tennessee has obnoxiously been proclaiming
and seems to promote most insultingly!

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By Anarcissie, May 1, 2010 at 9:37 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, May 1 at 1:18 pm:


‘Tell me what nation produces as much as it consumes, Anarcissie? ...’

China, for example.  They are now a big creditor nation.

Someone allegedly asked the president of China why the Chinese kept investing in a dubious proposition like the U.S. Federal government, and he answered, “What else can I do with the money?”  This implies an interesting state of affairs which the Chinese and others are no doubt thinking about.

I don’t see much evidence that anyone outside of the usual marginal cranks like myself is thinking about the obvious facts I’ve presented.  America seems to be incorrigibly optimistic and faith-based except for its intermittent post-catastrophe hysterias in which the end of the world is supposed to be immediately at hand. 

The next crash is going to be a doozy, though.  They seem to be coming faster now.  From 1987 until the dot-com crash was 13 years; from the dot-com crash until the subprime crash was about 7 years.  So when will the next one be along?  Four, five years?  Or maybe its consequences will be so serious it will want to make more room for itself before arriving.  There is a lot of bad stuff out there.  Time will tell.

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By Shenonymous, May 1, 2010 at 9:18 am Link to this comment

Tell me what nation produces as much as it consumes, Anarcissie?
All nations are involved in trade. And they trade for something to
consume. And yes, when one borrows anything, money or a jacket,
one lives on borrowed time.  What will make the credit disappear
will be the evil practices of the credit card companies (I know you
are talking about financial inter-institutional credit or talking about
international credit).  But Americans who are in thrall to credit card
companies are in the millions and the credit card companies are cutting
their own throat with their new extortion practices. If anyone is near to
what I’ve done in the last year is to quit four credit cards completely
and have only one at a low balance for emergencies.  Such is hedging
on the individual level.  But the point is I now no longer use four credit
cards.  Which means if millions of Americans do the same thing it is
staggering the effect it will have on the credit card industry who ought
to be put completely out of business.  But it won’t we all know that
because there are enough people who are fools and more yet to be
born. 

History demands its time (thus spaketh Shenonymous).  And water
seeks its own level (ancient saying).  Because the nature of The
American Mind is varied, and not as homogenous as some might think,
this country is unique in the history of the world.  It really cannot be
compared to other countries.  Maybe in another hundred years there
will be little difference.  It was founded on different principles and has
been run on different principles.  It is the paradigm for the world and it
will save itself.  Whatever is the financial nature of countries like China
or Germany et al, they are not really like that of the United States. 
They are only prima facie alike but the ways and means of correction
when the boat has gone off course will eventually happen.  Also
because more Americans have access to hear the state of the nation,
and are almost drowned daily with reports of every aspect of human
life, they are much more savvy in the workings of their country than at
any time in our history.  If the boat sinks then that will be a fact of
nature, but there are those, like Robert Reich, and I don’t really care
what you or anyone else thinks of him, who does not think the boat will
sink, it will just be a less wealthy one.  And if that is the case, then
that means the wealthy estate will be less wealthy as well.  we simply
ratchet down a notch or two.  The gash to our economy since 2007 was
almost fatal but we see how its resilience is bringing it back.  I am not
the pessimist as it is not my nature to be.  Cynical, skeptic, yes but not
for everything, I don’t make cynicism my mantra.  I am not a doom and
gloom person.  It gets to be a mental seduction to wave doom and
gloom around with the authority of a baton.

Even if China did warn the US, a few years ago, that did not stop them
from investing in loans to the US or whatever monetary arrangement
deals they have made.  They may have learned their lesson but they
have not learned to desist in working with the USA.  So yeah, what you
say is most likely true, and I don’t know if it is true as you have not
cited where you get your information, but assuming you have some
basis for your claims, they are moot.

There is much reiteration being said about the swastika, see my post at
April 30 8:51 pm.

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By JDmysticDJ, May 1, 2010 at 9:15 am Link to this comment

“In this life I’ve seen everything I can see .......
I’ve seen lovers flying through the air hand in hand
I’ve seen babies dancing in the midnight sun,
And I’ve seen dreams that came from the heavenly skies above
I’ve seen old men crying at their own grave sides
And I’ve seen pigs all sitting watching, picture slides
But I,..................................NEVER SEEN NOTHING LIKE YOU!”

(Jeff Lynne, Electric Light Orchestra “Do Ya”)

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By JDmysticDJ, May 1, 2010 at 9:15 am Link to this comment

“In this life I’ve seen everything I can see .......
I’ve seen lovers flying through the air hand in hand
I’ve seen babies dancing in the midnight sun,
And I’ve seen dreams that came from the heavenly skies above
I’ve seen old men crying at their own grave sides
And I’ve seen pigs all sitting watching, picture slides
But I,..................................NEVER SEEN NOTHING LIKE YOU!”

(Jeff Lynne, Electric Light Orchestra “Do Ya”)

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By Inherit The Wind, May 1, 2010 at 8:38 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie, May 1 at 10:22 am #

ITW—The swastika shows up as an icon or sign of the sun in ancient India.  German racists became fond of it because it was supposed to have been invented by a tribe call the Arya (from which they got the word Aryan), noble blond types who had conquered India in prehistory.  As you say, the sign now has other meanings and it is really inappropriate for a U.S. government building to be given the shape of one.
****************************************************
Yes, the idea of a spinning cross in many, many manifestations DOES appear in many cultures.  You are correct that there’s an Indian version of it as well.

Actually, another people claims the mantle of Aryans, vastly different from the Germanic tribes, and with far more legitimacy than Germany.  They even have a major nation whose name is a more accurate rendition of Aryan—it’s called Iran.  Yup Persians claim to be the TRUE Aryans and probably are.

When I was a little boy, before I learned about Hitler’s misuse of “Aryan” I saw a poem by Rudyard Kipling that I only remember a snippet or so from in iambic pentameter:

“..And while the Westerner riles
the Aryan smiles
and weareth the Westerner down!”

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By Anarcissie, May 1, 2010 at 8:06 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, April 30 at 10:02 pm:
’... Again, Anarcissie, the bandage analogy said it was a temporary protective agent to allow healing to happen.  Now if you want to berate it, fine, your reasons for thinking it is a poor one does not provide much insight.  Printing money is the unique way the United States has to stave off depression. No other country is able to do that and are scrounging to save themselves.  The borrowing of money between nations is not a new tactic, and the other nation-lenders are aware of what they are doing.  They expect a return.  And they will get it.  So that is not really the problem.  It is unclear to what cheesy stuff you are referring.  The debt has been checked.  You might start listening to the financial reports.  There is actually optimism being expressed for the first time.  Yes, it might be true, that the underlying structural problems have not been solved, so would you say what those are?  Things that can go on forever, will.’

The problems underlying the recent crisis and the present false optimism are that the U.S. does not produce as much as it consumes, lives on borrowed money and borrowed time, and aggravates the problems by borrowing and printing money, which, by the way, has not stopped—I don’t know where you got that idea.  I don’t know how to make the explanation any simpler or clearer.  As I said, destabilizing the money through debt and money-printing will lead to a disappearance of credit, and thence to a disappearance of commerce and labor, because people do business and work mostly because they anticipate some reward for their efforts.

The laborer’s solution to funny money is aptly described by the old Soviet joke: “They pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work.”  The result of that pretense in the Soviet Union was that the economy stagnated and began to fail, followed by a series of coups and the dissolution of the state.  Similar transitions in the U.S. may well turn out to be a lot rougher than they were in the USSR, given Americans’ violent history, gun culture, fundamentalism, and general sense of entitlement.

The issue of financial relations between nation-states is more complicated.  The rulers of China are conservative; they don’t like to rock the boat.  Their motto is “Rise quietly.”  The United States may be wasting away, but it is still heavily armed, aggressive, and dangerous.  Probably, they and the other prospective successors to the American imperium are biding their time and preparing for the future when, sooner or later, the U.S. collapses under its burdens of debt and fraud.  A period of global austerity may follow for which politicians and bureaucrats would be wise to prepare themselves.
 
The Chinese did try to warn the U.S. of its poor prospects a few years ago; Bernanke duly hiked the prime rate, and this set off the collapse of the subprime mortgage system and ultimately brought about a global credit crisis.  The Chinese presumably have learned their lesson, but there is no sign among our great leaders that they have learned anything at all.

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By Anarcissie, May 1, 2010 at 6:22 am Link to this comment

ITW—The swastika shows up as an icon or sign of the sun in ancient India.  German racists became fond of it because it was supposed to have been invented by a tribe call the Arya (from which they got the word Aryan), noble blond types who had conquered India in prehistory.  As you say, the sign now has other meanings and it is really inappropriate for a U.S. government building to be given the shape of one.

OzarkMichael—A number of hysterical articles have been written over the years linking not only Marxism and Islam but postmodernism as well.  See for example http://tinyurl.com/27bs8hn (or http://ontology.buffalo.edu/smith/courses01/rrtw/Newell.htm).  I am sure with a little effort anyone else one doesn’t like could be hooked in, for example tree-huggers, bicyclists, or Guatemalans.  Whatever.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 1, 2010 at 12:14 am Link to this comment

Tennessee-Socialist, May 1 at 2:09 am #

ofersince72: USA is evil and it was founded by evil killers. Jefferson and Washington were killers and evil, they killed native american indians and stole their land.  As soon as USA was founded it began killing, stealing lands and destroying nations. It seems that Shenonymous doesn’t know any thing about USA’s real history and the truth of the “wonderful US founding fathers.

The USA is a nation founded on killing, genocide, land-theft, fascism and corruption. Fuck the American way of life (AWOL), fuck US Imperialism, Genocide and fuck capitalism and fuck all US citizens who deffend capitalism, love Mcdonalds, Burger Kings, binge-eating and are fat pigs blinded and raped by the media.
***************************************

So I ask, yet again, why did you come here from the old Soviet Union?  Why didn’t you go to Cuba.  Bet I know why!

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By ofersince72, April 30, 2010 at 11:16 pm Link to this comment

Tennessee, what was interesting in that paper,
China is extending a 20 billion dollar infastructure
loan to Venezuela.

I bet that investment will get them a better return
than the one they get on this bankrupt country.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, April 30, 2010 at 10:40 pm Link to this comment

Watch this movie “Capitalism and other kid’s stuff” which says that capitalism is the real reason of why our lives are so shitty, full of misery, hunger, hopelessness poverty, and suffering

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3072291302771620276#


.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, April 30, 2010 at 10:33 pm Link to this comment

DEAR CHAVIZTAS FRIENDS, NOT THE ANTI-MARX, LIBERTARIANS INHERIT THE WIND, SHENONYMOUS AND OTHER AYN RANDISTS.  CHECK OUT THE LATEST CHAVIZTA NEWSPAPER IN ENGLISH:

http://www.correodelorinoco.gob.ve/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/WEB-ingles-8.pdf


.

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By ofersince72, April 30, 2010 at 10:22 pm Link to this comment

Any country that makes war their economic system is evil.
Any country that kidnaps a 15 yr old boy and locks him
up and tortures him for eight years is evil.
Any country that needs as many security agencies to hide
their evil doings is evil.
Any country that uses intitutional racism to take votes
away is evil

This could go on and on and on

Supporters of this concept of government must be evil .

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By Tennessee-Socialist, April 30, 2010 at 10:21 pm Link to this comment

For revolutionary change to take place in the United States, three conditions need to be in place. First, the broad masses of people - workers, the oppressed nationalities and others who are held down by the monopoly capitalists - need to arrive at the conclusion that they are unable to live in the old way, and need to be willing to fight to bring the old order to an end. Second, the ruling class needs to be in real crisis, where it is divided against itself and unable to continue with business as usual. And, finally, there needs to be a strong revolutionary organization, a communist party that is capable of navigating complex political situations and that can lead the fight to establish working class political power.

In the U.S. today, none of these conditions exist. In our view, it is the central task of revolutionaries to create a new communist party - a political party that is serious about revolution in this country. Such a party cannot be proclaimed or declared into being. It will be the product of bringing together or fusing Marxism with the workers movement. In a practical sense this means that a substantial section of the activists, organizers, and leaders need to take up the science of revolution, Marxism-Leninism, in order to build a communist party, that is in fact the advanced and organized detachment of the multi-national working class. This process will be the result of an organized effort, and it cannot come about spontaneously.

Building a new revolutionary party is a long-term project that requires perseverance and determination. It is not something that can be done in isolation from the people’s struggle and movements. Our party building work should be placed in the context of our three objectives: To win all that can be won while weakening our enemies; Raise the general level of consciousness, struggle, and organization in our immediate battles; and Win the advanced to Marxism-Leninism, thus building revolutionary organization.

The tasks of revolutionaries in relationship to building revolutionary organization change based on the development of the objective situation. Right now there are very few Marxist-Leninists in the U.S. While the job of uniting them is an important one, this is not key to party building. Finding new socialists in the course of the struggle is the thing to do.

It is possible that an upsurge of the national movements will lead to the creation of Marxist organizations based among a specific nationality, as happened in the late 60’s and early 70’s. If this takes place again, it would mean prioritizing the principled unity of communist organizations. Likewise if polarization in society due to the decline of U.S imperialism, or radicalization of a section of one or more social movements creates a layer of activists who are revolutionary minded, this in turn will affect the content of party building efforts.

Expanding the scale and scope of revolutionary organization with the long term goal of building a new communist party is closely linked with the construction of a united front against monopoly capitalism. The organizational capacity and political understanding a Marxist Leninist party provides is the vehicle for working class leadership, and the scaffolding for the united front against monopoly capitalism

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By Tennessee-Socialist, April 30, 2010 at 10:09 pm Link to this comment

ofersince72: USA is evil and it was founded by evil killers. Jefferson and Washington were killers and evil, they killed native american indians and stole their land.  As soon as USA was founded it began killing, stealing lands and destroying nations. It seems that Shenonymous doesn’t know any thing about USA’s real history and the truth of the “wonderful US founding fathers.

The USA is a nation founded on killing, genocide, land-theft, fascism and corruption. Fuck the American way of life (AWOL), fuck US Imperialism, Genocide and fuck capitalism and fuck all US citizens who deffend capitalism, love Mcdonalds, Burger Kings, binge-eating and are fat pigs blinded and raped by the media.

.

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By ofersince72, April 30, 2010 at 9:46 pm Link to this comment

I am a lefty and see nothing wrong with someone
quoting the Koran if one chooses, thats all
right wing bible thumpers do is quote the bible and
try to force their perverted idea of Christianity on
everyone else.
the U>S> has invaded just about every Muslim country
their is to steal .

  Go ahead and listen to Beck and Limbaugh, who call
everything that isn’t in their fascist agenda either
communist or socialist.

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By Inherit The Wind, April 30, 2010 at 9:08 pm Link to this comment

Actually, until the Nazis corrupted it, the swastika had been around for thousands of years, going in BOTH directions.  In the museum, in Argus, Greece, there is an urn about 4’ high and 3’ across that predates Rome, that has the crossing S-S shape the nazis preferred (like a fan spinning counter-clockwise). It’s there, I saw it.

But that doesn’t mean Hitler didn’t corrupt and ruin it.  Just like he ruined the name “Adolph”.  Adolph Marx changed his name to Arthur, but everyone in the world, including his wife and brothers called him “Harpo”.

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By OzarkMichael, April 30, 2010 at 6:30 pm Link to this comment

On Truthdig we find a Marxist revolutionary who quotes the Koran and hates the Jews. I find that interesting and not surprising at all, it has been coming for a long time.

Am i the only one who notices the high degree of cross pollination between Islam and the Left?

If I was a Leftist I would wonder about it.

But I am not going to waste weeks, days, or even hours trying to figure it out. Just a few spare minutes of relaxation on Truthdig. I will sketch out my impressions of the matter. As usual i am not knowingly copying someone else, but writing my original thoughts as they come to me.

I am sure this synergy between Left and Islam is real, but I know it isnt a conspiracy.  It is simply a matter of various interests doing what seems helpful to their respective causes. The synergy is irresistable.

One commonality of Islam and the Left is to muzzle criticism with cries of “racism” and “fascism” against anyone who questions or resists their agenda, and for each group to support the other’s claims. But that is only a method, not a goal. It isnt the heart of the matter.

Another commonality is a death wish against western culture. A broad theory involving the Left which you will not like, and I dont blame you. No one likes to be pyschoanalyzed.

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By Shenonymous, April 30, 2010 at 6:02 pm Link to this comment

Tennessee-Socialist, - You act like you are in a state of
disequilibrium.  I do drink rooibus tea, but I don’t do teabagging. 
You seem to forget half your own posts and you don’t read mine
very carefully.  The USA has not collapsed much as you would like
it to.  I don’t blame illegal immigrants for anything, so you now
put yourself in the liar set.  I have never said a word in all my years
of writing on TD about muslim insurgents.  You wish to harvest and
feed on me as your assigned prey.  You lie to avoid answering
questions.  You are the Slick Willie of the Neo-Communist Gang. 

Again, Anarcissie, the bandage analogy said it was a temporary
protective agent to allow healing to happen.  Now if you want to berate
it, fine, your reasons for thinking it is a poor one does not provide
much insight.  Printing money is the unique way the United States has
to stave off depression. No other country is able to do that and are
scrounging to save themselves.  The borrowing of money between
nations is not a new tactic, and the other nation-lenders are aware of
what they are doing.  They expect a return.  And they will get it.  So
that is not really the problem.  It is unclear to what cheesy stuff you are
referring.  The debt has been checked.  You might start listening to the
financial reports.  There is actually optimism being expressed for the
first time.  Yes, it might be true, that the underlying structural
problems have not been solved, so would you say what those are? 
Things that can go on forever, will.

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By Shenonymous, April 30, 2010 at 5:11 pm Link to this comment

Does the design run clockwise or counteclockwise?  That
would determine if it qualified as a Nazi symbol or if it was
simply an efficient architectural design for the purpose the
building was built.  When the cross design stands alone, it
is called a swastika, but when many are strung together it
is known as a running cross.  It is seen in the hem design of many
Greek garments.

To get all freaky about it would mean much ornamentation in the
worlds religious artifacts would have to be trashed.

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By omop, April 30, 2010 at 4:54 pm Link to this comment

By ofersince72, April 30 at 6:48 pm #
OMOP,

  Isreal ought to pay for that.

ofersince72.

When did Israel ever pay for anything?

How fanatic some of these people are. It looks like a SWASTIKA from a flying jet
plane for Christs sake>

$40 million dollars are better spent in fixing the crippled US service men and
women and provide for housing assistance to homeless veterans.

But we all are ordained to do what ever 2% of the 310 million population of the
USA orders.

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By Shenonymous, April 30, 2010 at 4:51 pm Link to this comment

Sorry that was a comment en passant.  A bit more on the swastika.

Fylfot: The Gammadion, an ancient symbol composed of four Gammas
united in cross.The Greek letter gamma looks like an L.  The Nazis
inverted both the direction of the original swastika (it usually moves in
a clockwise direction), and its original meaning which is “conducive to
well-being” to make it into a symbol of anti-Semitic hate. This cross is
also sometimes known a cross gammata because it could be
constructed from four of the Greek letter gamma.  It is a very ancient
symbol which was found in early Christian and Byzantine art, and is still
used extensively in India.  Also found engraved on weapons belonging
to the Norsemen and engraved on the spindles used by the ancient
Greeks in their- weaving at Troy. It inscribes the beginning of many
Buddhist scriptures, and is often marked on the soles of the feet of
Buddha in statuary. In the Jain religion, it is a symbol of the seventh
Jina (saint), Suparsva. To native Americans, it was a symbol of the sun,
the directions, and the four seasons.

The journal Folklore article “The Swastika,” says the word swastika
is of Sanskrit origin and the symbol is one of good luck or a charm or a
religious symbol (the last, among the Jains and Buddhists) that goes
back to at least the Bronze Age. It appears in various parts of the
ancient and modern world. This article mentions Christians did
consider the swastika for their symbol.

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By Shenonymous, April 30, 2010 at 4:31 pm Link to this comment

The running cross is an ancient Greek design.

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By kosha, April 30, 2010 at 4:30 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Prof. Chomsky is intellectually dishonest: it is well documented that Weimar Germany was totally occupied and corrupted by Zionists. There was no freedom of speech, no freedom of art. There was no need to “create” an enemy, it was present and robust. And today in equally occupied and corrupted America, Zionists, as they always do, put one group of people against another. They seduce Blacks with the promise of the “ultimate revenge” for the slavery,  and they need illigals as another disruptive element in society. The planet would have been enjoying peace now, if not for Zionists, who apparently have no desires or volitions of second order (philosophers call such individuals Wantons). Prof. Chomsky, as a philosopher, among other things, knows this very well.

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By Night-Gaunt, April 30, 2010 at 4:22 pm Link to this comment

Technically it isn’t a swastika but four “L” shapes or 45 degree angles set in a pattern. But to some it is and is offensive though I wonder if the Hammer & Sickle are held in such ill repute? (About 20 million were murdered under that symbol.) The swastika or gammad is still used widely in Asia including the medical group Red Swastika like our Red Cross/Crescent/Mogen David etc. Really unnecessary I think. Careful, I noticed certain tile patterns form four sided shapes resembling swastikas too. Better not go to India for it is widely used even in some of the party flags. Overblown I think it is from people in hypersensative mode. It is a universal symbol used by so many cultures over the centuries including various semetic peoples. Such a symbol ruined by evil. Now if only that would work for the Hammer & Sickle.

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By ofersince72, April 30, 2010 at 4:13 pm Link to this comment

that building ... whoever designed it ,
I am not the least anti-semetic ,but that is laughable.

from Reuters.
“While the United States will soon have 100,000 troops
in Afghanistan waging war against the Taliban, Iran
is quietly exerting influence on its neighbor in a
subtle way: through bricks and mortar, railways and
road…”

Think of the infastructure Afghan would have if we
spent all the money on that instead of death and destruction,  and they would love us.

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By Anarcissie, April 30, 2010 at 3:57 pm Link to this comment

I would like to see the building modified or demolished, too.  And I would like to know who designed it and who passed on the design in the first place.

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By Night-Gaunt, April 30, 2010 at 3:55 pm Link to this comment

“Zionist” rules the USA Tennessee-Socialist? I may have misjudged you, perhaps Tennessee-NationalSocialist fits you more snugly. Do you then subscribe to the ZOG idea of history? The Jews were the equal opportunity scape-goat for Nazis and Commies! Also in the USA until Einstein came along and helped to save them. Damn that Christian influences on them.

Here’s the deal AIPAC has some influence in our gov’t because those in power want to use Israel the way the Israelis use the USA. But when it comes down to brass tacks both will move in their own interests first. Look up the USS Liberty and see an example.

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By ofersince72, April 30, 2010 at 2:48 pm Link to this comment

OMOP,

  Isreal ought to pay for that.

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By omop, April 30, 2010 at 2:04 pm Link to this comment

Navy building complex in San Diego deemed “anti-semitic” when viewed from
a flying jet plane.

Maybe Chris could ask Noam “if he’d seen anyhthing like this before.
Estimate of cost to end.“anti semitic” look from a plane $40 million is in next
year’s budget.

Does AIPAC rule or is this putting unemplued Americans back to work?

http://www.10news.com/news/23284992/detail.html?taf=sand

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By Tennessee-Socialist, April 30, 2010 at 1:46 pm Link to this comment

AT LEAST PORTUGAL AND GREECE ARE FULL OF GOOD PEOPLE, FRIENDLY PEOPLE, REAL HUMANS, USA IS FULL OF CAKE-SLAVES, PIZZA-SLAVES AND BUFFET-SLAVES.  AMERICANS ARE BINGE-EATING SLAVES NOT HUMANS !!

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By Tennessee-Socialist, April 30, 2010 at 1:37 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous: Dear libertarian, hockey mom, Glenn Beck Tea Bagger.  What the hell is this ranting about Nietzsche and Allah? Nietzsche, Marx, Iran, Cuba, North Korea, Russia, Putin, muslims, China and Alah are not guilty of USA’s collapse.  You are like Tea Baggers and Sarah Palin who blame illegal immigrants and muslim insurgents for their own personal failures.

The real economic collapse of America has not been done by China, Nietzsche, Marxist Socialist policies or Allah or God religions.  But by the mafia-cartels of the US Monopoly-Capitalist class (The US Oligarchy), The Military Industrial Complex, The Corporate Zionist Media, The Zionist Power Configuration (ZPC), The Republican Party and The Democrat Party who have all destroyed the US economy and the living standards of most americans with the free market capitalist oligarchic imperialist system

.

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By ofersince72, April 30, 2010 at 12:17 pm Link to this comment

Here is what we will face in old Persia

The sons of the prophet were hardy and bold
    And quite unaccustomed to fear
But the bravest by far in the ranks of the Shah
    Was Abdulla Bulbul Ameer.

This son of the desert in battle aroused
    Could spit twenty men on his spear
A terrible creature both sober and soused
  Was Abdulla Bulbul Ameer.

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By ofersince72, April 30, 2010 at 11:46 am Link to this comment

we should just change the name of our nation to

  Winston Smith

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By Leefeller, April 30, 2010 at 11:40 am Link to this comment

My love of absolutisms is well documented.  As one can see
the light at the end of existence or read and interpret
the gospels in Scripture, then defines politics with a
clear absoluteness.  It seems the eyes of the fanatic,
absolutely unfailing towards their cause must never
absolutely provide any wiggle room for something as silly
as reason.

An absolute opinion?

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By Night-Gaunt, April 30, 2010 at 10:54 am Link to this comment

The external empire marches on! The domination fandango in military goose step. Hail to the Chief and the corporate lobbiests and money that made him one.

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By ofersince72, April 30, 2010 at 10:40 am Link to this comment

Obama and Bush

How shameful , putting Omar Kahdr
on trail.,  disgusting and shameful. sickening

In the meantime, last night troops break into a home
in Afgan and murder..

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By Night-Gaunt, April 30, 2010 at 10:11 am Link to this comment

Too bad Tennessee-Communist didn’t read a bit more Nietzsche he would have found a man who isn’t a warrior, armchair or otherwise. [In the Franco-Prussian war (1870-1871) he was a medic.] He just wanted to be free to think and criticized those “noble” warmongers constantly especially the Germans who he blamed the Teutonic influences of alcohol addiction on as their bane and his. You should have picked a more reliable real warmonger like say Kaiser Wilhelm I.

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By ofersince72, April 30, 2010 at 8:50 am Link to this comment

Drill baby Drill,  even if you don’t have any idea
how to cap a well.

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By Anarcissie, April 30, 2010 at 8:32 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, April 30 at 3:06 am:
‘Of course there are a lot of medical problems, Anarcissie for which a bandage and antiseptic salve are not the proper therapy.  I don’t recall saying it was the panacea for all medical problems.  Are you saying I did? ...’

You analogized the present economic and financial condition of the United States to some kind of injury which could be treated with a bandage and an antiseptic.  I said I thought it was a poor analogy for the case and gave my reasons for thinking so.

In your response you later say that you’ve heard arguments like mine before, but you don’t attempt to refute them, which is probably a good idea.  The assumption that the rulers of China will always uphold the United States seems like skating on thin ice to me, although one might suppose they look forward to eventually incorporating the U.S. as a satellite, much as the U.S. incorporated the British Empire and its satellites.

In any case, one of the things one cannot do forever is print money and have it retain its value.  When the value of money becomes unstable, credit disappears.  When credit disappears, labor and commerce as we know them stop.  These are iron laws in both “socialism” (your definition) and capitalism, which we have recently seen exercised by the gods, and yet everyone’s singing “Happy days are here again” because the printing presses are humming faster than ever.

I’ll assume the business about the swords was for someone else’s benefit.

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By Leefeller, April 30, 2010 at 7:07 am Link to this comment

She, a very interesting post;

Interesting information She, never head any of this about
Greece or Portugal on Fox News. Fox must be busy with
more important stuff, like counting their tea bags.

Any country which is socialist or leaning that way, will
have underhanded, overhanded and any other kind of handed
nipping away from their un-capitalist mini skirts.

Is it possible, the muddle east and other Moslem
countries cannot accept capitalism with open arms; just
lock and loaded arms; possibly because of religious
reasons? From what I understand moslems have a problem
with money changers charging interest? So they must
really love credit cards.  Socialism seems to have always
had such a problem with religions in the past, which
doesn’t seem right when religions always tout sharing and
not paying taxes while turning all four cheeks.

Anyone heard about a food fight at the…...
Kubunkinstine Congress recently? The GOP Kubunkinstine
counterpart of just saying…. no!  Reputedly it was the
socialists against the capitalists their was such a
throwing of eggs and twinkles.  It seems the capitalists
had the twinkles and the socialists had the eggs.

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By ofersince72, April 30, 2010 at 6:53 am Link to this comment

Since you are for strong regulations,
Do you believe that trade agreements should force
products to show minimum wage and health benefits?

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By ofersince72, April 30, 2010 at 6:50 am Link to this comment

With this type of economic system we create conditions
like Mexico has right now and slave labor like China
has right now,  with a devestating effect on the
manufacturing output of this country.
Again…When was the last month and year that the
United States produced a trade surplus?????

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By ofersince72, April 30, 2010 at 6:44 am Link to this comment

Once again advocating socialism for the rich,
chicken scratings for the working class.
With governments help,  401ks and such, took the
responsibility away from companies to provide retirement
benefits for employees.  A contribution and matching funds
that go into Wall Street portfolios, if Wall Street fails,
so does your retirement, the company doesn’t loose anything.

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By ofersince72, April 30, 2010 at 6:08 am Link to this comment

At least you want some socialism….
You advocate a capitolist market with socialist regulations. We have had that before, it doesn’t work
very well.

There shouldn’t be any regulations of Wall Street,
just BUYER BEWARE.  If someone wants to trust their
retirement with a bunch of crooks, why sould I have
to bail them out??

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By Shenonymous, April 30, 2010 at 4:43 am Link to this comment

In all probablility because of their smallness European states are
suffering worse economic woes than the US.  Greece and Portugal
the latest casualties of financial terpitude.  How lucky though there
are those whose acumen comes to the rescue.  Doomsday saying
is a classic fretting.  Doesn’t the Greece and Portugal fiasco show
the financiers of the world shared the prevailing philosophy of taking
advantage of those using the financial industry right along with the US?

Greece is an example.
Greece is the harbinger of the impending crack-up of the modern
welfare state. It is grand window on human interaction for us all.  The
socialists, as seen about a year ago, even as they were adroitly
balancing and falsifying their books, were boasting that the Wall Street
calamity was a wail of the people that capitalism was doomed.  But
now, the entire socialist twilight dream is exposed and even the most
passionate bureaucrat knows that there is no longer enough “others” to
pay the tab.  So if so socialist, where did all the money come from and
where did all it go?

Then we have the extreme socialists, such as Papandreau, who took
Greece far left after a right wing dictatorship was displaced.  Son,
George, now presides over the inexorable collapse of the Socialist state
his father constructed.  He was also president of the Socialist
International. Of course, and he has a Harvard degree, was born in
Minnesota, shall we say, both excellent Socialist credentials.

And Portugal:
The Carnation Revolution 36 years ago brought socialists into power. 
As reminded in socialistworld.net, capitalism had been declared dead! 
As a result, and reforms effected, the central parts of the economy were
nationalized, under the control of workers’ councils, and a ‘socialist
constitution’ was adopted. The 1975 soldiers swore duty and devotion
to the socialist revolution, everyone had democratic rights and a drastic
increase in wages and trade union rights were implemented. Eventually,
however, the revolution was set back and betrayed, as all forms of
government are liable to such corruptions, by the leaders of the
left.
  My harping point over and over and over again.  Since then,
capitalism has done everything to nullify the achievements of April: the
economy was privatized, land reforms reversed, and socialism removed
from the constitution.  On the downside of the sine wave of economics,
the neo-capitalist Portugal solution was to bailout banks at the cost of
the working class.  The crisis said to be the fault of the capitalists, and
most likely to a great degree it is, since people in the financial world
fall heir to corruption under any form of government. But would the
socialists take and responsibility for their years at the helm.  Not on
your life. 

Problem is not with capitalism, it is proven that corruption and tyranny
exists under any politicoeconomic system.  It is men who are to blame
in every case.  Men’s greed, unregulated greed.  In Portugal’s case,
according to the official profile, the parliamentary elections on
September 27, 2009, gave the Socialist Party a plurality for incumbent
Prime Minister Jose Socrates. Socrates’ government formally assumed
power October 26, 2009. Then earlier, on September 27, 2009, the
ruling center-left Socialist Party, led by Prime Minister Jose Socrates,
was reelected in parliamentary elections with 37% of the vote and
assumed power October 26. If Portugal is suffering financial woes, then
the center-left had a hand in you can bet your bottom dollar. The
legacy of the financial policies of Greece and Portugal laid the
foundation for the collapse to follow with capitalist’s adding cherries on
top. Again I ask, isn’t it always the need then the fierce hold onto
power that corrupts. 

Regulation, stiff regulation of entrepreneurship capitalism with a strong
dose of social programs is what will save the world, at least
economically.

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