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Posted on May 3, 2010
U.S. Air Force / Airman 1st Class Eboni Knox

U.S. troops board an airplane headed for Afghanistan.

By Chris Hedges

We are approaching a decade of war in Afghanistan, and the war in Iraq is in its eighth year. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and thousands more Afghans and Pakistani civilians have been killed. Millions have been driven into squalid displacement and refugee camps. Thousands of our own soldiers and Marines have died or been crippled physically and psychologically. We sustain these wars, which have no real popular support, by borrowing trillions of dollars that can never be repaid, even as we close schools, states go into bankruptcy, social services are cut, our infrastructure crumbles, tens of millions of Americans are reduced to poverty, and real unemployment approaches 17 percent. Collective, suicidal inertia rolls us forward toward national insolvency and the collapse of empire. And we do not protest. The peace movement, despite the heroic efforts of a handful of groups such as Iraq Veterans Against the War, the Green Party and Code Pink, is dead. No one cares.

The roots of mass apathy are found in the profound divide between liberals, who are mostly white and well educated, and our disenfranchised working class, whose sons and daughters, because they cannot get decent jobs with benefits, have few options besides the military. Liberals, whose children are more often to be found in elite colleges than the Marine Corps, did not fight the North American Free Trade Agreement in 1994 and the dismantling of our manufacturing base. They did nothing when the Democrats gutted welfare two years later and stood by as our banks were turned over to Wall Street speculators. They signed on, by supporting the Clinton and Obama Democrats, for the corporate rape carried out in the name of globalization and endless war, and they ignored the plight of the poor. And for this reason the poor have little interest in the moral protestations of liberals. We have lost all credibility. We are justly hated for our tacit complicity in the corporate assault on workers and their families.

Our passivity has resulted, however, in much more than imperial adventurism and a permanent underclass. A slow-motion coup by a corporate state has cemented into place a neofeudalism in which there are only masters and serfs. And the process is one that cannot be reversed through the traditional mechanisms of electoral politics.

Last Thursday I traveled to Washington to join Rep. Dennis Kucinich for a public teach-in on the wars. Kucinich used the Capitol Hill event to denounce the new request by Barack Obama for an additional $33 billion for the war in Afghanistan. The Ohio Democrat has introduced H. Con Res. 248, with 16 co-sponsors, which would require the House of Representatives to debate whether to continue the Afghanistan war. Kucinich, to his credit, is the only member of Congress to publicly condemn the Obama administration’s authorization to assassinate Anwar al-Awlaki, a U.S. citizen and cleric living in Yemen, over alleged links to a failed Christmas airline bombing in Detroit. Kucinich also invited investigative journalist Jeremy Scahill, writer/activist David Swanson, retired Army Col. Ann Wright and Iraq war veteran Josh Stieber to the event.

The gathering, held in the Rayburn Building, was a sober reminder of our insignificance. There were no other Congress members present, and only a smattering of young staff members attended. Most of the audience of about 70 were peace activists who, as is usual at such events, were joined by a motley collection of conspiracy theorists who believe 9/11 was an inside job or that former Sen. Paul Wellstone, who died in a plane crash, was assassinated. Scahill and Swanson provided a litany of disturbing statistics that illustrated how corporations control all systems of power. Corporations have effectively taken over our internal security and intelligence apparatus. They run our economy and manage our systems of communication. They own the two major political parties. They have built a private military. They loot the U.S. Treasury at will. And they have become unassailable. Those who decry the corporate coup are locked out of the national debate and become as marginalized as Kucinich.

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“We don’t have any sort of communications system in the country,” said Swanson, who co-founded an anti-war coalition (AfterDowningStreet.org) and led an unsuccessful campaign to impeach George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. “We have a corporate media cartel that overlaps with the war industry. It has no interest in democracy. The Congress is bought and paid for. It is absolutely corrupted by money. We kick ourselves for not being active enough and imposing our demands, but the bar is set very high for us. We have to try very, very hard and make very, very big sacrifices if we are going to influence this Congress prior to getting the money out and getting a decent media system. Hypocritical Congress members talk about money all the time, how we have to be careful about money, except when it comes to war. It is hypocritical, but who is going to call them on that? Not their colleagues, not their funders, not the media, only us. We have to do that, but we don’t in large part because they switch parties every number of years and we are on one team or the other.”


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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, May 31, 2010 at 8:47 pm Link to this comment

N74Jw, May 30 at 11:30 pm,

President Obama’s plans aren’t happening exactly as he had hoped,  but to say his intentions were a lie is a stretch.

Report this

By N74Jw, May 30, 2010 at 7:30 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Yeah but…

Many out there, including me, do care, there is just nothing we can do about it. The president lied on national T.V., and promised to bring the troops home as one of his first agendas if elected. That hasn’t happened, nor will it. The powers that be are making too much money for that to happen.

Report this
politicky's avatar

By politicky, May 19, 2010 at 9:32 am Link to this comment

Mr. Hedges,

You still don’t read Chalmers Johnson, do you?  Or Greg Palast?

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, May 18, 2010 at 2:57 pm Link to this comment

Dr.B, May 18 at 2:48 pm,

Except it’s a pipe dream and will not work unless it is institutionalized equal in whole with the Democratic Party and the Republican Party.  Right now all the Liberal 70% majority populace can do is take over and reform the Democratic Party, then make laws to institutionalize a real 3rd Political Party, which won’t happen without the liberal populace making it happen.  The Primaries, and an informed public are the voting tools to accomplish this feat.

Since there are only two political parties, the 20% Conservative/Moderate Professional Academic Middle Class will have to be run out of the Democratic Party and sent over to the Republican Party where Corporate Republican-Lites belong. 

The Conservative/Moderate Palin/Beck/FOX News Network/Rupert Murdoch Right-Wing Tea Party propaganda and sophism is to deceive the populace and keep as much of the populace as they can from voting democratic and reforming the Democratic Party, which is the only political party of the two that has ever represented the populace. 

There is no reason for the liberal populace to even try to run the Conservative autocratic GOP and the Conservative autocratic Corporate Elite Capitalists out of the Republican Party, because it doesn’t matter what their party is named, the Conservative GOP and the Conservative Corporate Elite Capitalist will still be a problem for the Liberal 70% Majority Populace, because the Conservative 10% GOP and the Conservative Corporate Elite Capitalists Class are not constituents of the Liberal 70% majority common populace, hence the reason the Conservatives are working to destroy Liberals 24/7.

The Conservative/Moderate 20% Professional Academic Middle Class used to be members of the common populace until they separated themselves from the common populace and became the Republican-Lite Elite Professional Academic Middle Class represented by the DLC and are no longer constituent members and representative of the Liberal 70% majority common populace.

In reality, when the Corporate led Conservative/Moderate 20% Professional Academic Middle Class withdrew from the Common Populace, they threw away their voting base— now they are a minority as is the Conservative/Moderate 10% Corporate Elite Capitalists, which includes the Conservative GOP that makes up the Real Republican party.  All populace members of the Republican Party are deceived into thinking they are being represented, when the only representation they get is what trickles down from the Democratic Party——nothing trickles down from the Republican Party, as conservative doesn’t trickle.

It is time for the Liberal 70% Majority Common Populace to realize who they are and restore ownership of the Democratic Party to the populace; as the Democratic Party was once the Democratic Farmer and Labor Party, to which it must be returned, and not in name only, but in deed, because the farmers and laborers are the Liberal 70% Majority Populace, whether they know it or not.

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By Dr.B, May 18, 2010 at 10:48 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Great article. Shows the corruption of the Democratic party and the need for a real third party that represents those left out and oppressed by the two parties of corporate America.

Remember the Republican Party was a third party and the Wiggs are gone.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, May 18, 2010 at 8:41 am Link to this comment

Chris—as far as I know all recent terrorists of note either were here legally or were born and raised here, so it doesn’t seem that tightening the borders would make any difference.

Several countries have tried to seal themselves off from the outer world—North Korea, Tibet and pre-modern Japan come to mind.  It doesn’t seem to have worked out very well for them.

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ThomasG's avatar

By ThomasG, May 18, 2010 at 8:11 am Link to this comment

The “sleepers” are awakening; Henry David Thoreau would approve, more so if the “sleepers” would awake and fill ALL of the jails in the nation, and when today’s version of Ralph Waldo Emerson comes to bail them out, to tell whoever would save them from jail by bailing them out, “What are YOU doing out there, let me be”.

Report this

By Chris, May 17, 2010 at 8:13 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

An excellent point. I am not being unpatriotic to suggest that the ‘Mission Accomplished’ banner that hung on the carrier for Bush’s grand declaration was actually more apropos for the terrorists. Their mission was accomplished. I am all for bringing them to justice and defending this country but their attacks and the outlandish “war on terror” it spawned served to drive us into the financial waste we are in. Bin Laden asked “How can we get the American’s to commit financial suicide and bring down this empire we hate so much?” - well, he’s got part of his answer. “The only thing we have to fear is fear itself” - terror doesn’t work if you aren’t terrified to the point of stupidity.

At least be consistent… don’t burn tons of money fighting a fruitless war when we have porous, undefended borders right here. Further, what if we spent that money on enforcing the homeland immigration laws and clearing the expired, undocumented, and overstayed.

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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, May 14, 2010 at 9:20 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie, May 14 at 1:05 pm,

Vote out the Conservatives/Moderates on the Left; vote in the Liberals on the Left, so that all the Conservatives/Moderates that represent the Big Bankster Corporations, Big Insurance Corporations and Big Wealth of whatever industry, etc. are ONLY on the Right where they belong, then there will be balance in Congress and liberal laws will be able to be made that represent the populace, instead of all the Conservative laws that represent big business and industry ONLY.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, May 14, 2010 at 9:05 am Link to this comment

I don’t see how the Democratic Party will be reformed by people voting Democrat.  Given the decayed state of the Republican Party, it probably doesn’t matter how the tiny segment of the electorate who read this web site vote; the Democrats will win anyway.  But voting for them sends them the message that they’re doing a good job and you like their style.

The only mechanism for reform I can see is local activism and the support or formation of movements and parties which oppose war, imperialism, surveillance, subsidies for the rich and the rest of business as usual.  Voting for Democrats doesn’t usually fit into that.

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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, May 13, 2010 at 9:01 pm Link to this comment

ofersince72, May 14 at 12:34 am,

You give up far tooooooo easily.

Report this

By ofersince72, May 13, 2010 at 8:34 pm Link to this comment

Everybody just woke up during the Bush years saying
“Oh, looky here,  we are losing our republic. Lets
save it,  I will vote Democrat.”

Worked out well for us didn’t it ???

“Oh, but he had such a mess to clean up, give him a
chance.”

You , and many others have been sleeping for at least
forty years politically. We lost this house llooonnnggg
ago.

Report this

By ofersince72, May 13, 2010 at 8:29 pm Link to this comment

The Democrat Party would have been reformed already
if everybody had stayed away from then years ago.
Now that facsism has set in past the hips, there is no
voting our way out of this.
The last hope that we have is to just vote “present”
on our ballots, so they know we are here, but we are not
supporting them….................................

Report this

By ofersince72, May 13, 2010 at 8:22 pm Link to this comment

SINCE WHEN ????  SAYS YOU ???

Reform the party to what and when ??”

Explain just how that will be done, the primaries ??
By the way , the primaries are rigged.

You can’t sell that fish food !!!!!

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, May 13, 2010 at 7:50 pm Link to this comment

Voting Democrat is the only way for the populace to vote in order to reform the Democratic Party.  There is no reforming the Republican Party, the Republican Party will always be led by the GOP Elite.  There is a chance that the populace can retake the Democratic Party; but there is no chance at all with the Republican Party that is owned lock, stock and barrel by the GOP and they rule with an iron fist.  No matter what is done to the Republican Party, the Right-Wing will rule and only conservatives are allowed.

The progressive and liberal populace must zero in on progressively reforming the Democratic Party and ignore the Republicans totally, because Republican business does not include the populace, and populace business must not include the Republicans.

Report this

By Sodium-Na, May 12, 2010 at 10:00 pm Link to this comment

Mr.Touchy,

Why bother with the German way??

What is wrong with the American way??

Sincerely,
Ptofessor Sodium,or Dr.Sodium will do!! 

And no kidding,Mr.Touchy.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 12, 2010 at 5:45 pm Link to this comment

Why not make it simple and use the German method and call yourself Professor Doctor Sodium?

Report this

By Sodium-Na, May 12, 2010 at 12:30 pm Link to this comment

Re: Inherit The Wind,May 12 at 12:31 pm.

Quote
======

Dr.Sodium or is it now Professer Sodium.(?)

Unquote
========

Mr.Touchy,

For an answer to your question quoted above,I am sorrrrrrry to disappoint you. It is both,my dear Mr.Touchy:

Dr.Sodium and Professor Sodium.

You can call me by either one or both,as it may be conveniet to you. I am not that touchy!!

And no kidding

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 12, 2010 at 8:31 am Link to this comment

Dr. Sodium, or is it now Professor Sodium.

Thanks for the chemistry lesson. Since Sodium is highly dangerous, poisonous and explosive salt is pretty much the safest way to keep it. 

It’s also broken into Sodium and Chlorine ions in swimming pools with a gizmo called a Salt Water Generator (it generates chlorine, not salt water).  It then recombines the used chlorimines somehow to restore the salt that was used.

But thanks for the chem lesson anyway…

Report this

By Sodium-Na, May 11, 2010 at 11:34 pm Link to this comment

For Inherit The Wind,

ITW-Let me enlighten you a little bit,in case you do not know:

Salt is a chemical “COMPOUND” whose chemical symbol is “NaCl” and called “Sodium Chloride”,but commonly called “Salt” which is,as you know,the table salt used in sprinkling food with

Sodium,on the other hand is an “ELEMENT” whose chemical symbol is “Na”.

Because the difference between the “COMPOUND” of “Sodium Chloride” and the “ELEMENT” of Sodium is so huge,it is unfair to Sodium to call it “Sodium Chloride” or Salt. Sodium or “Na” is a PURE element while “Sodium Chloride” is made from Sodium and Chlorine,two distinct elements ionically combined to form the compound of salt or chemically called “Sodium Cloride”. 

Since the chemical symbol of Sodium is “Na”,you can call Sodium as “Na” instead of the word “Sodium” and you will remain within the rules of chemical nomenclature. But you really cannot call Sodium as “Sodium Chloride” or Salt.

However,you can call me Salty,if that will make you happy,ITW. I am not that touchy!!

And no kidding!!

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 11, 2010 at 8:20 pm Link to this comment

Salty:

I’m not touchy.  I was simply pissed off. EL’s condescension does that to me. There’s a difference.

Report this

By Sodium-Na, May 11, 2010 at 10:48 am Link to this comment

For Inherit The Wind,

Thanks for your rather lenthy response to Dr.Sodium!!

Thanks again for your help on the ROFLMAO. Now I know how to find it on the computer,Mr.Touchy!!

Regret that you have misunderstood my intention. I was trying to establish some kind of acceptable dialogue with you,inspite of our fundamental disagreement concerning the Palestinian-Israeli conflict,since Sepharad no longer with us. I have never considered her or you my enemy inspite of my human empathy for the brutalized Palestinians. You have just failed to get it!!

Where are you,Sepharad,my real Zionist LADY? I have really missed the constructive exchanges with you. Mr.Touchy is a hopeless case!! What am I supposed to do to achieve a degree of mutual understanding between the Palestinians and hard-core ideologues like you?? Please come back so that I need not bother Mr. Touchy.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 11, 2010 at 6:45 am Link to this comment

elisalouisa, May 11 at 10:19 am #

Actually ITW, my comment, “you are much to nice a person to be dealing with the likes of ITW” was meant to be humorous. You just didn’t see it. Now who is being thin skinned?
************************************

That was a joke?  How was I supposed to tell?  I usually can sniff out sarcasm, irony or non-sequitors, or even puns.  I guess that was meant to be ironic.

Sorry if it went past me under my radar….Must be too used to Leefeller’s both eclectic and low-brow styles of humor.

Report this

By elisalouisa, May 11, 2010 at 6:19 am Link to this comment

Actually ITW, my comment, “you are much to nice a person to be dealing with the likes of ITW” was meant to be humorous. You just didn’t see it. Now who is being thin skinned?
Sodium-Na, ITW was making a joke, it fell through, perhaps he has been a follower of Leefeller’s humor for too long. Funny?

Report this

By ofersince72, May 11, 2010 at 5:39 am Link to this comment

But even in those two decades of
Golden Years, they never stoppped
with their, overt and covert
resouce wars they were raping
and pillageing over every corner
of the planet earth, destroying
polluteing, murdering, and leaving
a filthy culture wherever they
planted their dirty military bases.
All you Veterans know this well !!!!

Report this

By ofersince72, May 11, 2010 at 5:35 am Link to this comment

This country used to
have, (only lasted 2 decades)
the best safety
standards in the world.

Had the best Unions
in the world,
that only lasted about
2 , 2 1/2 decades
also, the best factories
the best education system
the best OSHA,
While I deplore labeling
any country or government
as the “best”, we did !!!
PAST, PAST, TENSE !!
LONG GONE !!! we are toblame

Report this

By ofersince72, May 11, 2010 at 5:25 am Link to this comment

Right now,  the government should be rationing

gasoline , according to ones needs,  as they did

during WWII.

They also need to Nationalize the Oil reserves
  A S A P.

And I mean quickly….we are going to need it for
many things other than driving, it is a prescious
commodity that we have turned into an evil.

Report this

By ofersince72, May 11, 2010 at 5:10 am Link to this comment

I hope Cynthia McKinney runs again..

I believe the only way we can stop this madness
is with another minority, that way they can’t
throw that back in our face.  Get a real liberal
Jewish lawyer to run with her, take the Anti-Semite
weapon away at the same time…..!!!!

Report this

By ofersince72, May 11, 2010 at 4:06 am Link to this comment

Mocking Gore Vidal , puts you in the company of

  William Buckley,,

  C O N G R A D U L A T I O N S !!!!!!!!

(I wasn’t ever fooled)

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 11, 2010 at 3:47 am Link to this comment

Sodium-Na, May 11 at 4:37 am #

For elisalouisa,

Thanks elisa,but I can be just as nasty,if I see it necessary to be so. ITW does not bother me. I consider him just one of the bloggers who has his priblems,like the rest of us. Nothing more and nothing less. If he has questionable behavior,it really reflects on him,not on me. This true about every other posters,ranging from the silly ones to the most serious and stuck-up ones.

Please check my website. I have already posted a new essay yesterday. I believe it will be helpful to you. Thanks again.
***************************************

Thanks for the free and un-requested analysis, Dr. Sodium.  I now know you have as little a sense of humor as EL but probably a thicker skin.

EL doesn’t like me because she is usually blatantly irrational in her arguments, trying to say that a square peg is designed to fit in a round hole, and gets really bent out of shape when I call her on it.  Then she gets pompous and tries to paper over her mess with emotional and grand statements.

When she actually wrote a really tight and cogent answer on Afghanistan recently, one that caught me off guard and which I’m still contemplating, I complemented her on it.  That must be because I’m really a bad person.

Had you popped ROFLMAO into the Google or Bing slot at the top of your browser you would have known what it was it two seconds, and that it’s standard shorthand.  You might have even laughed at my “interpretation”....

Report this
LocalHero's avatar

By LocalHero, May 11, 2010 at 3:19 am Link to this comment

“Scahill and Swanson provided a litany of disturbing statistics that illustrated how corporations control all systems of power. Corporations have effectively taken over our internal security and intelligence apparatus. They run our economy and manage our systems of communication. They own the two major political parties. They have built a private military. They loot the U.S. Treasury at will. And they have become unassailable.”

All this power (as described by you, Hedges), and it’s not plausible that these psychopaths could have assassinated a Senator by downing his little plane? Or, by commission or omission, facilitated the 9/11 terrorist attack? In fact, if they have anywhere near the power you describe, it’s implausible that they DIDN’T orchestrate them (and many, many more).

Report this

By Sodium-Na, May 11, 2010 at 12:37 am Link to this comment

For elisalouisa,

Thanks elisa,but I can be just as nasty,if I see it necessary to be so. ITW does not bother me. I consider him just one of the bloggers who has his priblems,like the rest of us. Nothing more and nothing less. If he has questionable behavior,it really reflects on him,not on me. This true about every other posters,ranging from the silly ones to the most serious and stuck-up ones.

Please check my website. I have already posted a new essay yesterday. I believe it will be helpful to you. Thanks again.

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 10, 2010 at 8:33 pm Link to this comment

diamond,

Many things seem similar both in politics and religion,
I found the same thing in Hedges new post this week
regarding religion, yes nothing has changed!

Profound as the comments were in 1970,  they seem more
profound today. Thanks!

Report this

By elisalouisa, May 10, 2010 at 8:18 pm Link to this comment

Sodium-Na: you are too nice a person to deal with the likes of ITW. Right now ITW is probably Rolling On The Floor Laughing My(His) A** Off.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 10, 2010 at 7:56 pm Link to this comment

Sodium-Na, May 10 at 6:10 pm #

For Inherit The Wind,

ITW,

Excuse my ignorance: wiil you please tell me what the symbols,“ROFLMAO” stand for?

Your help will be appreciated and thanks.
********************************************

It’s cryptic and means “Reflection on (a) Full Lacrimose Mao”

Report this

By Sodium-Na, May 10, 2010 at 2:10 pm Link to this comment

For Inherit The Wind,

ITW,

Excuse my ignorance: wiil you please tell me what the symbols,“ROFLMAO” stand for?

Your help will be appreciated and thanks.

Report this

By Sodium-Na, May 10, 2010 at 1:55 pm Link to this comment

Re: Anarcissie,May 10 at 12:02 pm.

Quote
======

Sodium-I am not proposing a vendetta against Hedges. I have even praised some of his columns. When I say “there will be other opportunities” I mean that there will be other opportunities to discuss the subject he proposes.

Unquote
========

Thanks,Anar,for the above quoted explanation. I am glad it is not the ominous thing I thought it was.

Therefore,I do withdraw not only my unacceptability of the six words of yours,specifically,“but there will be other opportunities”,but also all the contentions I have raised in my earlier posts,related to those six words.

Anar: you have not diappointed me. My huntches about your good character have been proven correct by your splendid response quoted above.

Delighted,indeed.

Report this

By diamond, May 10, 2010 at 1:37 pm Link to this comment

The real problem here was summed up in 1970 by Charles A. Reich, a law professor at Yale. He was referring to the Vietnam War but the substance of his argument is eerily familiar:

‘And the war carries with it the habitual falseness of television advertising. It is for ‘freedom’ even though it is attempting to perpetuate a dictatorship. ‘Elections’ are held that are obvious fakes. ‘Agrarian reform’ is promised but never takes place. It is a ‘moral’ war fought by a country that supports blatantly immoral regimes all over the world, a ‘defensive’ war by a country whose offensive military bases ring the world’.

And the reason the wars never end?

‘The Corporate State is trapped in its own product. Years of subversive hunts, of loyalty oaths and congressional investigations have eliminated from positions of power in the State virtually every person who might know how to get us out of the war. And the failure of the newspapers and television to carry facts that would help us to extricate ourselves, the insistence on teacher and student patriotism in the schools, CIA subsidies of public opinion - all have prevented public discussion from offering any help to escape. The State, as we have said, has no brakes.’

How has anything changed? If anything the stranglehold of the Pentagon and the far right has only become more monolithic and less able to be curbed. Fox News is a monument to their success at misinformation and spin: presenting ideology as entertainment so the schmucks don’t even know they’re being brainwashed.

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By ofersince72, May 10, 2010 at 11:35 am Link to this comment

Hey Inheirit Wind or whatever

Much better than ur version,

Obama nominated Goldman-Sachs to the Supreme Court,

you still gonna use the argument, vote democrat for the
court appointments ????

Report this

By fusion, May 10, 2010 at 11:34 am Link to this comment

For Leefeller, May 10 at 8:04 am #

It’s great you checked out Veterans for Peace…look forward to any further comment

Regards

Fusion

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 10, 2010 at 10:11 am Link to this comment

ofersince72, May 10 at 10:19 am #

Hey Tennessee,

Where are you?? Don’t let these trolls shut you up,
You have the best Knowledge of U.S. history that I have
seen on these threads.

**********************************

ROFLMAO!

Report this
Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, May 10, 2010 at 8:02 am Link to this comment

Sodium—I am not proposing a vendetta against Hedges.  I have even praised some of his columns.  When I say “there will be other opportunities” I mean that there will be other opportunities to discuss the subjects he proposes.

I’m not opposed to people promoting a Truther version of 9/11, but I would prefer not to see it brought into every discussion on this web site.

Leefeller—There are many groups who are working in active opposition to war and imperialism, but they are mostly small and local.  The problem seems to be at the level of the large coalitions, specifically UFPJ and ANSWER.  ANSWER appears to be made up of people who are not actually opposed to war—they think violence is all right for some people.  This stance offends many others and severely limits ANSWER’s appeal to the general anti-war public.  UFPJ appears to have been infiltrated and subverted by the Democratic Party.  The evidence for this is that they were willing to sponsor large demonstrations against Bush, but not against Obama, who is doing the same things Bush did, if not more and worse.  My conclusion is that, contra Hedges, people do care, but that they need to form a new organization or to get rid of the existing leadership of the old ones.

There is an outfit called “The World Can’t Wait” (http://www.worldcantwait.net/) which ran a large ad in the New York Review of Books recently.  I don’t know who they really, really are, but at least they are talking the talk.  I have a feeling that if they get some serious support the existing organizations now playing possum will wake up and come running.

Report this

By ofersince72, May 10, 2010 at 6:19 am Link to this comment

Hey Tennessee,

Where are you?? Don’t let these trolls shut you up,
You have the best Knowledge of U.S. history that I have
seen on these threads.

Report this

By ofersince72, May 10, 2010 at 5:58 am Link to this comment

Glen Greenwald,  thank you, you tried your damndest.

Well, the Democrats have a Democrat Progressive Caucas
that endorses a Blue Dog Democrat (Jane Harmon) and
a president that moves the S C O T U S to the right.

And a big , gigantic OIL SPILL that reliable scientists
say up to a 1,000,000 gallons a day may be spewing out.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 10, 2010 at 4:04 am Link to this comment

Fusion;

Thanks for the information, checked out the VFP web site and behold the closest local chapter contact is a person I know, who I did not know was even a veteran,  worked with him on an another political issue several years back, damn…. it is a small, small world, Disneyland small world. though I find the song annoying!

Will do a follow up, Thanks!

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By fusion, May 9, 2010 at 10:13 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller, May 10 at 12:58 am # said:

“There are several organizations which are against the war and they may be credible, but my paranoia always doubts and questions the sincerity of these organizations.  For politics is what it is, devious beyond redemption.

“I will not post them for I have no knowledge of their real intent and sponsors,.... hell they could be Republicans as what has happened in the past.”

I am a member of Veterans for Peace.  We are indeed an organization ‘against the war.’  In fact we are against all war [excepting self-defense]. Our members have served in conflicts beginning with the Abraham Lincoln Brigade against the fascists in the Spanish Civil War.

So know that this perspective has now found a voice on this blog.

And: we are implacable opponents, based on personal experience, of war mongers, Republican, Democratic or whoever.

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By Leefeller, May 9, 2010 at 8:58 pm Link to this comment

Hijacking the page to talk about hijacking seems most amusing and do I detect a sampling of black mail to boot or could it be construed as strong arming?

There are several organizations which are against the war and they may be credible, but my paranoia always doubts and questions the sincerity of these organizations.  For politics is what it is, devious beyond redemption.

I will not post them for I have no knowledge of their real intent and sponsors,.... hell they could be Republicans as what has happened in the past.

Maybe Truth Dig or Hedges could talk of these organizations against the war and provide some insight?

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By Sodium-Na, May 9, 2010 at 8:31 pm Link to this comment

For Anarcissie,

Anar-I have no disagreement,whatsoever,with your statement to ITW when you said that,and I quote “I am sorry this thread could not refute Hedges instead of going down the usual drain,etc…”. I knew what you meant by this statement. It was clear to me you meant the highjacking of the forum by the ideologues or the believers in the conspiratory theory or the ones who like to parade what they know about other subject,or,or and more or(s).

I do not only resent the deviation from the topic of the column,I also despize the deviation profoundly and consider it coming from the emptiness of the minds of those who delibrately practice it. Yes,their minds are impotent on the topic of the column. Instead of just allow those who know enough about the topic to debate it constructively,they intervene with their bravado,questionable claims,destortions,deceptions and shameful lies. And some of them plagiarized directly from articles and books. The difference in style of writing from one paragraph to the next is usually so striking to the eyes of the veteran debaters and bloggers. The deviators do all that with straight face. The worst part of such a practice is the fact that they usually end-up calling each others names and some of them have a great talent in using the four-letter words effeciently with wild imaginations. I did use such vulgar words in the past out of frustration. I regret very much that I had allowed my human weakness to direct my language,instead of controlling it at all time. In fact,I have considered several times to quit posting because of the unrefiness I found myself unintentionally falling into.

In the last three years,I implored,many times, all bloggers to have a degree of self-discpline and adhere firmly to the essence of the topic of the columns,for the sake of clean and fine debate
but no avail.

Yes,Anar,you have full right to refute objectively,logically and constructively every word,every sentence,every paragraph and every column written by Hedges or anybody else. Otherwise,you will be wasting your time as well as every body else’s time,because the vast majority of readers are no fools. That is for certain. They can differenciate the genuine from the superficial,candor from rudeness,honesty from deception,contentiousness from pretentiousness and knowledge from ignorance.

Thus as you may see,you and I are in total agreement on this particular point.

My problem stems from the last six words of your post of May 7 at 8:06 pm,addressed to ITW. Just to be clear,the last six words are specifically the following words:

“,but there will be other opportunities.”

Connecting the above six words to what you have stated earlier in the same post to refute Hedges’s column,it is so obvious to me that you meant to refute also the columns that Hedges has not written yet,and no one knows what he is going to write about in the first place. If you call this objectivity and pure logic and constructive criticism,I do not. Some individual may even consider it a threat.

That is where my unacceptability of your position on the writings of Chris Hedges came from. Withdraw the six words you unwisely used and I will withdraw my unacceptality of your position at once. Otherwise,I adhere firmly to what I have said here and in earlier posts. I do value your opinion,Anar,and I hate to lose you as a fine debater and hence refrain from debating you any further,because it will be a wast of time on my part as well as yours. I do hate to see that happening. The ball is in your court.

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By ofersince72, May 9, 2010 at 5:12 pm Link to this comment

There has most definetly been
a lot of

Collusion

there must be some agreement here

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By MarthaA, May 9, 2010 at 3:45 pm Link to this comment

Tennessee-Socialist, May 8 at 10:01 pm,

“GERALD CELENTE ON THE ALEX JONES SHOW PREDICTS THAT THERE WILL BE A LOT OF FAKE STAGED TERRORISM ON THIS SUMMER OF 2010”

Of course, how else can Republicans appear to be of benefit to the majority populace, when they could not care less.

Conservative Republicans and DLC Bill Clinton type Conservative Republican-Lite Democrats have cooperated in the demise of the country’s economy and put the nation into its death throws, of which it may, but may not recover. 

Republicans will most decidedly play on fear, because Republicans have nothing else except fear to play on, hence the fear card will be played to the utmost with elaborate staged terrorism, and right-wing propaganda to fool the populace into thinking Republican candidates are in the populace’s best interest, when it is exactly the opposite.

Note:  Any Democrat that is allowed to speak on the regular channels of Republican Right-Wing television on a regular basis is not a real liberal Democrat that represents the populace, but a Conservative Democrat that represents the corporatocracy/plutocracy, or fascist plutocracy. 

Once in a great while a liberal Democrat will get a chance to speak as a representative of the populace, but only if there are two to four Republicans to shout him down, but it is seldom.

The only people the Right-Wing corporate media allows to speak on a regular basis in supposed representation of the Left-Wing’s populace are strictly corporate sympathizers and cooperators within the Democratic Party that are against the populace.  The Right-Wing is perfectly capable of representing itself without any assistance from the Left in the representation of the Right’s best interest at the expense of the Left. 

The Left-Wing is in need of representation, as the Left-Wing’s populace has been unrepresented in Congress far too long.  All corporate sympathizers and cooperators of the Democratic Party need to be voted out of the Democratic Party by the populace and replaced in the Primary Elections each and every time there is a Primary Election until the Democratic Party is free of corporate sympathizers and cooperators; then NEVER discontinue the practice.

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By ofersince72, May 9, 2010 at 3:14 pm Link to this comment

Iran-Conta was full of lies, deception, and the
breaking of public law being conducted from inside the
White House…

One could easily conclude that there was conspiracy
involved.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 9, 2010 at 12:58 pm Link to this comment

EL:

Excellent post. From my POV, your best ever. I’m forced to consider it as an alternative and either accept it or refute it.  Meanwhile I’m processing it…

I’ll let you know what I come up with.

ITW

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By Anarcissie, May 9, 2010 at 12:22 pm Link to this comment

Sodium-Na, May 9 at 3:23 pm:
’... What was unacceptable to me was the implication of the content of your post of May 7 at 8:06 pm. ...’

I thought Hedges was wrong (“nobody cares”) and I don’t like his style.  I think he’s been wrong about other things (as I have explained on other occasions).  I think the issue of whether people care about the endless war and imperialism is important and should be discussed, and I think there will be other opportunities to deal with incorrect statements and unreasonable interpretations, including those provided by Hedges.  Unfortunately, as I said to ITW, the discussion was hijacked by conspiratists.  I don’t see what’s “unacceptable” about my remarks, except that you don’t agree with all of them.  It seems to me the function of these forums is to facilitate the expression of differing opinions.  No?

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By Sodium-Na, May 9, 2010 at 11:23 am Link to this comment

For Anarcissie:

No,Anar,it is not,as you put it,“ashes and sackcloth you prefer”. No siree. I prefer constructive criticism,not the loudness similar to the loudness I came across so often in some Middle Eastern souk or bazars,each seller was trying to sell his lousy merchandize to the innocent passers-by.

Chris Hedges or any other writer must be subjected to scrutiny but objectively and constructively. What I have read so far on those threads of TD is nothing more than shallow criticisms based on either personal grudges at best,or on some kind of covert agenda at worst. I have never considered your posts to belong to either. What was unacceptable to me was the implication of the content of your post of May 7 at 8:06 pm.

For your information,in case you do not know,what I prefer is just to come closer to the “truth”, whatever the topic or issue might have been. I consider the writings of Hedges as only one of the several “TOOLS” I rely upon to help me come closer to the elusive “truth”. Through reading Hedges for the last 20 years,I have come to realize that his writings are,indeed,reliable as they have withstood the test of time. My files are full of examples after examples that have convinced me that this conclusion of mine about Hedges’ writings is correct.

As you may see,I am no worshiper of Hedges,nor am I a worshoper of any other human being currently in existence. Yes,I have heroes but I have made certain that everyone of them is dead before I added to my list. They are four in number and all of them are dead,for sure.

What has troubled me was your comment addressed to ITW in your post of May 7 at 8:06 pm,and I quote,“but there will be other opportunities” to refute Hedges. My God,if there is one,how would you know what Hedges going to write about in the future to refute it ahead of even publication. You must be a world god or goddess!!

Sorry,Anar,to say that your position is incompatible with the reality of Hedges’ writings,as I have comprehended them and appreciated them as excellent “TOOLS” to approach the “truth”,in the last 20 years. And please do not take this as personal because it is not,since I still think you generally write reasonable posts or at least your posts are not repulsive,assertive and loud. Otherwise,I would have ignored your posts completely. I just could not do that to you.

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By ofersince72, May 9, 2010 at 9:46 am Link to this comment

WOW, There are people that WORSHIP Cris Hedges ??

I don’t believe he would like that !!!

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By Anarcissie, May 9, 2010 at 8:56 am Link to this comment

Sodium-Na, May 9 at 5:16 am:
‘Re: Anarcissie,May 7 at 8:06 pm.

Quote
======

ITW-it does not matter much. I am sorry this thread could not refute Hedges instead of going down the usual drain,but there will be other opportunities.

Unquote
========

Anar-I regret to tell you that you have sounded like the rest of the ranters who hates the guts of Hedges and want to refute him,even when he is right in what he writes in his weekly column. ...’

I don’t hate Hedges.  Sometimes he’s right, sometimes he’s wrong (“nobody cares”), often he’s hysterical, and often he’s preaching to the choir.  His hatred of popular culture and his willingness to bend the truth (over backwards into pretzel shape) as in the case of his remarks about the Internet rub me the wrong way, but it’s no big deal.

For my part, I find the worship of Hedges odd.  In the case of the present article, instead of wailing that “nobody cares” he could have found out that a lot of people do care, but that the existing anti-war organizations have apparently been neutralized.  (I think I already wrote about this.)  I got that far just pottering around on the Net for a few minutes.  What could a real reporter, with a real reporter’s knowledge and contacts, have found out?

But if it’s ashes and sackcloth you prefer, you’ve got it.  Everyone should be happy.

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By elisalouisa, May 9, 2010 at 8:54 am Link to this comment

ITW: I shall address your comment re Afghanistan, “that it does not fit into the picture of the “grand” strategy.” I respond by saying strategies overlaps, the strategy of world domination and the role oil plays in that quest is where Afghanistan’s role comes into play. Nicholas Hagger, author of “The Syndicate” states on page 207 that the U.S. met with the Taliban in July, 2001 and pressed them to form a government of national unity in return for aid. The U.S. representative state Tom Simmons stated that, “Either the Taliban behaves as it ought to or Pakistan will see to it that they do or another option would be used, military force, either you accept our carpet of gold, or we will bury you in
a carpet of bombs.” Was the Taliban perceived a threat to the flow of alternative oil to the West? This alternative source was a 2.5 billion dollar pipeline,secured by Unocal in May 1997 which the Taliban would permit with two conditions: that Unocal reconstruct the country’s infrastructure and that the pipeline be open for local consumption at some point. Was a Taliban ruled
Afghanistan perceived as an obstacle and therefore there should be an incident that would give a pretext to replace the Taliban with a government sympathetic to America’s push for control of that area. If this is the case the incident created to give enthusiasm for bringing about change in Afghanistan was the attack on Twin Towers. The war in Afghanistan is essentially about oil. Unocal’s top advisor during negotiations with the Taliban to contruct the CentGas pipeline from Turkmenistan through Western Afghanistan to Pakistan was none other than Harid Karzai, installed by the Bush Jr. administration as the new ruler of Afghanistan. I believe the pipeline project has been put on hold, perhaps until war’s end.

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By ofersince72, May 9, 2010 at 8:38 am Link to this comment

YES WE CAN…........HAVE PEACE
YES WE CAN…........HAVE PEACE !!!!!!!

YES WE CAN….......CONTROL THE DESTINY OF OUR COUNTRY
YES WE CAN….......CONTROL THE DESTINY OF OUR COUNTRY

YES WE CAN, YES WE CAN, YES WE CAN , YES WE CAN !!!!!!!!!
YES WE CAN MAKE THEM LISTEN TO US. YES WE CAN !!!!!!!!!!!!

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By ofersince72, May 9, 2010 at 8:16 am Link to this comment

To those on Truth Dig,

Please go buy FOOD SEEDS,  Now….

If you will need them you will have them..

If you don’t ,  not much of an investment lost.

  Matches, oil lamps and candles, keep them handy..

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By ofersince72, May 9, 2010 at 7:30 am Link to this comment

Not to worry though, Salazar is not issuing anymore

off-shore drilling permits for two and a half more weeks!!

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By ofersince72, May 9, 2010 at 7:17 am Link to this comment

Forget it,,!!!!!!!!

I do not want one of those little robots,,,

  they did not do their job,,,GO FIGURE !!!!!!!!

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By ofersince72, May 9, 2010 at 6:51 am Link to this comment

Little robots manuvered 65 tons of concrete one mile
below the surface of the ocean against 70,000psi
over top the riser… What happened to the part of the
riser that the box is sitting on??

Those are some really good little robots, I want one !!!

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By ofersince72, May 9, 2010 at 6:32 am Link to this comment

Please fill in the blanks

I am going to vote to re-elect President Obama because

1. ____________________

2. ____________________

3. ____________________

4. ____________________

5. ____________________

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By ofersince72, May 9, 2010 at 6:25 am Link to this comment

George Carlin and Mark Twain are sipping some wine

and looking down with a grin on their face at this

dark comedy show !!!!!

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By ofersince72, May 9, 2010 at 2:57 am Link to this comment

The Mexican immigrants are your friends

  The U.S. Gov and the Mexican Gov are not.

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By Sodium-Na, May 9, 2010 at 1:16 am Link to this comment

Re: Anarcissie,May 7 at 8:06 pm.

Quote
======

ITW-it does not matter much. I am sorry this thread could not refute Hedges instead of going down the usual drain,but there will be other opportunities.

Unquote
========

Anar-I regret to tell you that you have sounded like the rest of the ranters who hates the guts of Hedges and want to refute him,even when he is right in what he writes in his weekly column.To them,his writings have to be refuted or at least discredited,no matter what.Period. If this is the case(and I think it is the case),it is sad. And forget about constructive debates since your agenda is so bias I even feel sorry for the fact that you ended up like the rest of the biased posters who desperately are trying to discredit him by a hook or crook for the service of their covert agenda. All those ranters are well known to me. I can name them one by one along their covert agenda. I thought you were different and do not belong to the loud crowd.

Disappointed? Yes,indeed

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By Inherit The Wind, May 8, 2010 at 7:44 pm Link to this comment

EL,
I’m sorry but it doesn’t fly.

lisalouisa, May 8 at 11:47 am #

ITW: If you recall, at the beginning of the Iraq war when those in control thought it would be a piece of cake msm would say that after Iraq then the target would be Iran and then Syria. Perhaps Afghanistan was on the back burner at that time. The point is, there was no doubt that the think tanks were proceeding with plans to gain complete control of that part of the world,
regardless of the costs to our country financially and in the shedding of blood.

***************************************

EL, no argument there—in fact, I said something similar—they were planning the FIRST step, war with Iraq, in December of 2000 and early January of 2001—when Clinton was still the lame-duck President.

***********************************************
Yes, dear Rumsfeld pulled the necessary forces out Afghanistan. Following up, when we had destroyed much of Iraq our military returned to Afghanistan. As to his saying the targets in Iraq “were good targets, not necessarily of any strategic importance” I say, “Why quote this sad specimen of a man?” ” Do you really believe his word?” Lies, lies, lies.
**************************************************

Sure I believe him.  It was a guard-slipping moment of candor, combined with his total arrogance and hubris that made him think it didn’t matter.  The fact that Rumsfeld is a lying sack of shit doesn’t change the fact that THAT statement was an attempt to justify, at that moment, a totally incomprehensible defense of an insane attack on Iraq. Why would ANYONE start a war with a nation solely because they had “good” targets?

As you said: it was intentional to attack Iraq LONG before 9/11.

**************************************************
The people behind 9/11 were not good at covering their tracks. It was msm that was good at lying about what took place and also the evidence.
*********************************

Yeah, I know you and a lot of others believe a lot of “evidence” that I don’t accept holds up in the light of day. But that’s beside the point. Assuming, solely for argument’s sake that you are right, they STILL covered their tracks far better than the Gang That Couldn’t Shoot Straight covered up theirs for faking us into war with Iraq.  THAT is my point.  A different quality of “coverup” in and of itself indicates different perpetrators.

***********************************************
Afghanistan is strategically important for more than one reason.
***********************************************

Can you name even one reason? If we agree on the “grand” strategy of first Iraq, then Iran and Syria (and I DO agree on that), then Afghanistan simply does NOT fit into the picture—it’s a hindrance to the “grand plan”.  Simple logic.

*************************************************
Also, it seems that Karzai is not a complete puppet. Another thing, the firefighters who survived this sad event questioned the complete collapse of some buildings and msm reporting, maintaining that from their training it was an impossibility. Remember their comrades died because of this tragedy, therefore their words carry added weight. Architects also spoke up as to the validity of what was being reported. Their words also carry weight because they know the structural composition of these buildings. Clean up crews also had their doubts. Silencing and ridiculing those who are part of this history and dissent with what is reported is what msm is supposed to do. Those who are in accord with msm reporting have their own reasons for doing so.
***************************************************

I’m not getting into that. I’ve still seen NOTHING but a load of suppositions, wild assumptions and bad science.  Plus, the “result” of this “conspiracy” just doesn’t fit the clear motives of the presumed “conspirators”, as I’ve made clear. And you cannot make it fit.

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By Leefeller, May 8, 2010 at 4:37 pm Link to this comment

Sorry, I should have written Ellsa!

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By Leefeller, May 8, 2010 at 4:33 pm Link to this comment

elisalouisa,

Anacrissie, covered the conspiracy theory and
inside job theory very well, one may want to
appreciate the enlightenment.

As for whining fanatics, may I suggest fanatics do
not whine, and it would seem the whining is on tin
foil hat crowd!

Elia stated:

“You might say they are fanatic in their continual
whining about this, going to great lengths to place
any and all conspiracies in the same category thus
dismissing them all.”

Elia if this article was on the credibility of the
inside job( which it is not), it seems either side
in disagreement could be construed as whining
fanatics, depending only on ones point of view?

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By mike112769, May 8, 2010 at 2:56 pm Link to this comment

Balkas: It is not the spelling, but your use of “shorthand”. Your posts read like my teenage daughter’s phone texts.

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By ofersince72, May 8, 2010 at 2:14 pm Link to this comment

The Powers That Be….That run this country
(by the way, this country is not run from Washington)

Had the Arizona Legislature,
Write an immigration bill, that was passed into law by
the governor….

That would create much controversy
and in doing so , would create much divisive politics..
right during the time of an election cycle.
TO KEEP THE POPULACE VOTING…CENTRIST…..
either Dem or Pub…..making the elections a single
issue debate !!!!!!!  (that diverts the real issues)

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By Leefeller, May 8, 2010 at 1:41 pm Link to this comment

Evidently Sneezy had some major problems with the
asbestos suit,accordingly he forgot to bring his supply
of tissues!

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By ofersince72, May 8, 2010 at 1:35 pm Link to this comment

Classified ads:

Help Wanted,
Young articulate person, of any gender or color, that
is well versed in civil liberties, civil rights,
international law and forming trade agreements that has
absolutely NO prior experience in state or federal
legislatures.  Has good humor and likes foreign culture.
to please RUN FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

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By Robert, May 8, 2010 at 12:59 pm Link to this comment

Sunday, May 2, 2010

Powell’s Chief of Staff Mentions Role of Neocons and Israel in Iraq War

By Stephen Sniegoski

Secretary of State Colin Powell’s Chief of Staff (2001-2005), Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, makes taboo-statements on the role of the neocons and Israel in bringing about the war on Iraq in the following video….


Wilkerson’s statements about the neocons and Israel are largely based on his own direct experience as a member of the Bush administration.  Wilkerson has made similar statements before and I include some of them in my book, “The Transparent Cabal.”

For example, “A lot of these guys, including Wurmser, I looked at as card-carrying members of the Likud party, as I did with Feith. You wouldn’t open their wallet and find a card, but I often wondered if their primary allegiance was to their own country or to Israel. That was the thing that troubled me, because there was so much that they said and did that looked like it was more reflective of Israel’s interest than our own.” (T.C., p. 120)

In the video,  Wilkerson also attributes the US war on Iraq to other factors – oil, war profiteering corporations, ultra-nationalists (Cheney and Rumsfeld), and the American people’s fears (“the politics of fear”).  I differ in whole or in part with some of these statements which would require knowledge that Wilkerson could not obtain directly by his work in the Bush administration.  In some of these cases, Wilkerson merely presents the conventional wisdom, which greater research would show to be incorrect.

For example,  I don’t think he has a firm knowledge of the neocons’ extensive writing on the Middle East, which I document in my book, “The Transparent Cabal.”  He thus neglects to point out that the neocons sought to reconfigure the entire Middle East for the interest of Israel.  And that this position paralleled the position of the Israeli Likudniks who sought to destabilize and fragment Israel’s enemies.  Obviously, a fragmented Middle East would enhance Israel’s security.

While this does not mean that the neocons would not have liked a pro-Israel government in Iraq (and other Middle Eastern countries), they were quite willing to accept the more probable destabilization, which most Middle East experts realized would be the result in Iraq if the US invaded.  It should be noted that even though the occupation of Iraq did not bring about a pro-Israel government, no neocons have said that the outcome in Iraq was a failure, and they are now targeting Iran.

Regarding Cheney and Rumsfeld, whom he refers to as “ultra-nationalists,” Wilkerson is apparently unaware of their close ties to the neocons.  Cheney had numerous pre-2001 personal connections to the neocons.  He was a member of the board of advisors of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA), a member of the board of trustees of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), and a founding member of the neoconservative Project for a New American Century (PNAC).  It also should be noted that Cheney’s wife,  Lynne Cheney, has been a prestigious member of AEI.  So if Cheney is an ultra-nationalist, he is a special kind of ultra-nationalist who believes that neocon policies advance American goals-and that the interests of Israel coincide with those of the United States.

The personal benefits Cheney derives from his association with the neocons would indicate that his motives for promoting their agenda goes beyond the ideological. And certainly the neocon outlets have enabled Cheney to stay in the limelight since he left office.”

~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for video & the rest:

http://www.israel-palestinenews.org/2010/05/powells-chief-of-staff-mentions-role-of.html#more

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By ofersince72, May 8, 2010 at 10:27 am Link to this comment

Let us not forget this important truth…

This rapeing, pillageing, and plunder are NOT
Resource Wars…

But the installation of Freedom and Democracy
inside huge concrete walls.

It is called “GULAG FREEDOM”, it is the envy of all.!!!

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By ofersince72, May 8, 2010 at 9:59 am Link to this comment

It is a “No Brainer”  who played Dopeie

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By ofersince72, May 8, 2010 at 9:52 am Link to this comment

“Dick” Cheney was Grumpy

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By ofersince72, May 8, 2010 at 9:26 am Link to this comment

Obama is the one who played Snow White

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By ofersince72, May 8, 2010 at 9:21 am Link to this comment

He wasn’t depressed?

“I love Puerto Ricans and negroes
  As long as they don’t move next door
  So love me, love me
  Love me, I’m a liberal

  But don’t talk about Revolution
  Thats going a bit to far
  So love me, love me
  love me, I’m a liberal”

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By Leefeller, May 8, 2010 at 9:04 am Link to this comment

Happy was there!

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By ofersince72, May 8, 2010 at 9:04 am Link to this comment

It was already obvious you believed in Fairy Tales.

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By Leefeller, May 8, 2010 at 8:52 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie,

Then you haven’t heard the one about Snow White and the six dwarfs?  It is said sleepy couldn’t make it…..Any way they only could come up with one large and 6 small asbestos suits. Some people try to say they were the wizard and 6 munchkins, but everyones knows munchkins don’t whistle when they work!

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 8, 2010 at 8:43 am Link to this comment

STUPID PEOPLE ARE HAPPY, AND SMART PEOPLE ARE DEPRESSED.  DON’T FEEL BAD IF YOU ARE DEPRESSED, BEING DEPRESSED IS A TRAIT OF SMART PEOPLE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism

Depressive realism is the proposition that people with depression actually have a more accurate perception of reality, specifically that they are less affected by positive illusions of illusory superiority, the illusion of control and optimism bias. The concept refers to people with borderline or moderate depression, suggesting that while normal people see things in an overly positive light and severely depressed people see things in overly negative light, the mildly discontented grey area in between in fact reflects the most accurate perception of reality.

Studies
Studies by psychologists Alloy and Abramson (1979) and Dobson and Franche (1989) suggested that depressed people appear to have a more realistic perception of their importance, reputation, locus of control, and abilities than those who are not depressed.

People without depression are more likely to have inflated self-images and look at the world through “rose-colored glasses”, thanks to cognitive dissonance elimination and a variety of other defense mechanisms.

This does not necessarily imply that a happy person is delusional nor deny that some depressed individuals may be unrealistically negative (as in studies by Pacini, Muir and Epstein, 1998).

Arguments
Since there is evidence that positive illusions are more common in normally mentally healthy individuals than in depressed individuals, Taylor and Brown (1988) argue that they are adaptive.

However, Pacini, Muir and Epstein (1998) have shown that the depressive realism effect may be because depressed people overcompensate for a tendency toward maladaptive intuitive processing by exercising excessive rational control in trivial situations, and note that the difference with non-depressed people disappears in more consequential circumstances.

Knee and Zuckerman (1998) have challenged the definition of mental health used by Taylor and Brown and argue that lack of illusions is associated with a non-defensive personality oriented towards growth and learning and with low ego involvement in outcomes. They present evidence that self-determined individuals are less prone to these illusions.

Dykman et al. (1989) argued that, although depressive people make more accurate judgments about having no control in situations where in fact they have no control, they also believe they have no control when in fact they do; and so their perceptions are not more accurate overall.

Examples
The French philosopher Voltaire’s classic 1759 novella Candide: Or, Optimism deals with this subject and can be considered an early exploration of this psychological phenomenon. The story is an attack on Leibniz’s optimistic theory that ours is the greatest of all possible worlds, a philosophy that is espoused by the character of Professor Pangloss even though the events around him are presented as unambiguously awful. Much of the humour in the story comes from Pangloss’s rationalizations of these miserable and cataclysmic events as he will not admit that even the worst forms of individual human suffering are not all for the best. His position is counterpointed later in the book by the character of Martin, a more depressive character whose pessimistic philosophy may not be any better for getting along with life, but his viewpoint is certainly the least deluded as to the reality of the world around him. Candide’s own conclusion on the subject can be summed up in his utterance that “Optimism is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable.”


.

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By ofersince72, May 8, 2010 at 8:24 am Link to this comment

Let us not forget this truth Bushies and Obamas’

the “Free Trade Agreements” have proved to be an

economic boom for the working class in America and

Mexico.

And don’t forget this truth, America is not interested
in denationalizing Mexican oil fields.

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By ofersince72, May 8, 2010 at 8:20 am Link to this comment

And of course, Columbia is the only symbol of
Freedom and Democracy in Latin America, what a minute,
we can now add Honduras.
What other truths do you apologists have to offer???

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By ofersince72, May 8, 2010 at 8:16 am Link to this comment

All you have to do is google and read congressional
records from 1999 and 2000 to understand why we are
killing so many people in Afganistan.
  However, it is much easier on the conscience to believe
the man in the cave story.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, May 8, 2010 at 7:58 am Link to this comment

elisalouisa, May 8 at 1:27 am:

‘One cannot help but wonder what is really at the bottom of the zealous quest of some to ridicule those who do believe that the blowing up of the WTC was something other than what msm reports, even calling it “small potatoes” as conspiracies go.  You might say they are fanatic in their continual whining about this, going to great lengths to place any and all conspiracies in the same category thus dismissing them all. ...’

No doubt it’s a conspiracy.

But on the contrary, I do not dismiss all conspiracies.  I judge conspiracy theories along several different dimensions.  One is complexity.  Another is entertainment value.  A third is the number and importance of practical consequences for myself and people I know.

9/11 was unquestionably a conspiracy (an agreement to commit a crime).  There are several theories about it.  One is that a group of Muslims led by one Mohammed Atta flew large planes in the buildings, causing them to burn and fall down.  Another is that people in the government did this, or permitted it to happen.  Yet another is that tons of explosives were somehow planted in the buildings.  Another is that extraterrestrial aliens weakened the steel structure of the buildings with mysterious death rays.  I’m only scratching the surface here.  Many of the theories overlap.

It is obvious that for entertainment and complexity value, none of these theories are a patch on tracing the assassination of John F. Kennedy to the Knights of St. Louis except maybe the last one.

However, in practical terms, the only one of the theories which gives me any hope of lessening the likelihood that I or those I care about will be victims of a terrorist attack is the first.  While it is true that there will always be a few crazy, violent people running around, the probability that there will be enough of them in one place at one time to do something like 9/11 is greatly enhanced by the similarly pathological behavior of our statesmen, who have been bombing, invading, and attacking Muslim countries for at least six decades.  If I can discourage the statesmen and their fans from war and empire, then the other crazy, violent people will be less attracted to doing vengeance on the people and places I live among.  It’s a long shot, I agree.

If, on the other hand, the government or the Saturnian ant men can just destroy buildings without hindrance and leave not a trace behind, then there is no hope.  We are already totally overpowered and they are just playing with us.  In practical terms, this theory doesn’t appeal to me.

Normally I don’t bother engaging conspiratists.  I work politically with several people who believe in what I regard as very dubious theories.  But I do get annoyed when people hijack discussions, as this one was hijacked, just as I get annoyed with Fundamentalists who hijack every discussion into their concerns about God’s will and so forth.  My own conspiracy theory is that the government—or the Saturnian ant men—are deliberately working on that annoyance in order to get me and my brilliant rhetoric off this web site and the Net in general.  They’re following me around, mumbling “9/11!  9/11!  9/11!”

Well, it won’t work, Xotp9o6-xöx!  I’m onto you!

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By ofersince72, May 8, 2010 at 7:56 am Link to this comment

That huge, gigantic concrete wall they are going to
construct around Bagdad….

I must admit, the U.S. has learned something from
  Isreal.

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By elisalouisa, May 8, 2010 at 7:47 am Link to this comment

ITW: If you recall, at the beginning of the Iraq war when those in control thought it would be a piece of cake msm would say that after Iraq then the target would be Iran and then Syria. Perhaps Afghanistan was on the back burner at that time. The point is, there was no doubt that the think tanks were proceeding with plans to gain complete control of that part of the world,
regardless of the costs to our country financially and in the shedding of blood. Yes, dear Rumsfeld pulled the necessary forces out Afghanistan. Following up, when we had destroyed much of Iraq our military returned to Afghanistan. As to his saying the targets in Iraq “were good targets, not necessarily of any strategic importance” I say, “Why quote this sad specimen of a man?” ” Do you really believe his word?” Lies, lies, lies. The people behind 9/11 were not good at covering their tracks. It was msm that was good at lying about what took place and also the evidence. Afghanistan is strategically important for more than one reason. Also, it seems that Karzai is not a complete puppet. Another thing, the firefighters who survived this sad event questioned the complete collapse of some buildings and msm reporting, maintaining that from their training it was an impossibility. Remember their comrades died because of this tragedy, therefore their words carry added weight. Architects also spoke up as to the validity of what was being reported. Their words also carry weight because they know the structural composition of these buildings. Clean up crews also had their doubts. Silencing and ridiculing those who are part of this history and dissent with what is reported is what msm is supposed to do. Those who are in accord with msm reporting have their own reasons for doing so.

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By ofersince72, May 8, 2010 at 7:44 am Link to this comment

Hey Cris Hedges, not to worry , all is well, why didn’t
we think of the embarrassment technique?  I will start it

Hey Democrats, your mothers wear combat boots !!!!!

(that always gets them)

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By ofersince72, May 8, 2010 at 7:28 am Link to this comment

Someone mentioned their plan to stop the rape, pillage,
and plunder of Afganistan and Iraq is to

Embarrass the Democrats into submission

Did anyone else get a good laugh at this with their
cup of coffee this morning????

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By ofersince72, May 8, 2010 at 7:11 am Link to this comment

A military “tribunal” for a kid that was picked up
protecting his mother when was fifteen.
Then kicking out reporters from witnessing the
kangaroo court.

  Vote Bush , Obama, for more of this freedom and
democracy.

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By ofersince72, May 8, 2010 at 7:03 am Link to this comment

They are getting ready to construct a massive
concrete wall around Bagdad.

Bush and Obama…..You two are a couple of very sick,
              disturbed, and degenerate persons.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 8, 2010 at 4:53 am Link to this comment

EL:

Your logic just doesn’t follow.  Remember: Afghanistan was an “inconvenience” for Bush and especially Rumsfeld and Cheney.  They wanted a war with Iraq, not Afghanistan.  After all, who cared about the Taliban even when they were blowing up a 1300 year old giant Buddha and assassinating the leader of the Northern Alliance (just days before 9/11)?  Afghanistan was not on the strategic-importance “map” and doesn’t produce oil. And they were planning the war with Iraq even before the inauguration (see Woodward on that).

So….if the White House and the Bush regime were behind 9/11, wouldn’t they have pointed ALL the evidence at Iraq and skipped Afghanistan completely?  Plus, it was pretty clear at the time that the “evidence” against Iraq was at best shoddy, and at worst, falsified.  They were bumbling idiots about it.  Jimmy Carter called for us not to invade Iraq in a speech the neo-cons spat at. The Yellow Cake scandal was becoming clear.

Plus, Rumsfeld pulled necessary forces out of Afghanistan all for the manufactured war in Iraq.  Remember him saying that targets in Iraq were picked because…they are were good targets, not necessarily of any strategic importance?

There’s a dichotomy here.  IF Al Qaeda was not behind 9/aa then neither the neo-cons nor the nuttiest of the right in Israel would have given a damn about Afghanistan, Taliban or no, Al Qaeda or no.  BECAUSE AFGHANISTAN GOT IN THE WAY OF THEIR DOCUMENTED GOAL: IRAQ!

There’s another dichotomy. If the conspiracy theory is valid, then the people behind 9/11 were extremely good at covering their tracks.  But the people behind our invasion of Iraq were bumbling, ham-handed amateurs who couldn’t even fake evidence properly, or hide their motives and mechinations.

So: Going to war in Afghanistan makes no sense when the neos wanted war in Iraq.  The justification for the war in Afghanistan (at least initially, if not currently) has stood the test of time for most Americans. OTOH, the war in Iraq was discredited as a phony even before the “Mission Accomplished” fiasco.  Only the neos still believe that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11 and world-wide terrorism.

The motivations just don’t follow in your argument.  Were they true Afghanistan would never have come onto the radar.

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By Robert, May 8, 2010 at 4:02 am Link to this comment

High-Fivers and Art Student Spies

What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks?

By CHRISTOPHER KETCHAM

03/07/07 “Counterpunch”——“On the afternoon of Sept 11, 2001, an FBI bulletin known as a BOLO ­- “be on lookout”—was issued with regard to three suspicious men who that morning were seen leaving the New Jersey waterfront minutes after the first plane hit World Trade Center 1. Law enforcement officers across the New York-New Jersey area were warned in the radio dispatch to watch for a “vehicle possibly related to New York terrorist attack”:

White, 2000 Chevrolet van with ‘Urban Moving Systems’ sign on back seen at Liberty State Park, Jersey City, NJ, at the time of first impact of jetliner into World Trade Center Three individuals with van were seen celebrating after initial impact and subsequent explosion. FBI Newark Field Office requests that, if the van is located, hold for prints and detain individuals.

At 3:56 p.m., twenty-five minutes after the issuance of the FBI BOLO, officers with the East Rutherford Police Department stopped the commercial moving van through a trace on the plates. According to the police report, Officer Scott DeCarlo and Sgt. Dennis Rivelli approached the stopped van, demanding that the driver exit the vehicle. The driver, 23-year-old Sivan Kurzberg, refused and “was asked several more times [but] appeared to be fumbling with a black leather fanny pouch type of bag”. With guns drawn, the police then “physically removed” Kurzberg, while four other men ­- two more men had apparently joined the group since the morning ­- were also removed from the van, handcuffed, placed on the grass median and read their Miranda rights.

They had not been told the reasons for their arrest. Yet, according to DeCarlo’s report, “this officer was told without question by the driver [Sivan Kurzberg],‘We are Israeli. We are not your problem.Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem.’” Another of the five Israelis, again without prompting, told Officer DeCarlo ­- falsely ­- that “we were on the West Side Highway in New York City during the incident”. From inside the vehicle the officers, who were quickly joined by agents from the FBI, retrieved multiple passports and $4,700 in cash stuffed in a sock. According to New Jersey’s Bergen Record, which on September 12 reported the arrest of the five Israelis, an investigator high up in the Bergen County law enforcement hierarchy stated that officers had also discovered in the vehicle “maps of the city with certain places highlighted. It looked like they’re hooked in with this”, the source told the Record, referring to the 9/11 attacks. “It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park.”

The five men were indeed Israeli citizens. They claimed to be in the country working as movers for Urban Moving Systems Inc., which maintained a warehouse and office in Weehawken, New Jersey. They were held for 71 days in a federal detention center in Brooklyn, New York, during which time they were repeatedly interrogated by FBI and CIA counterterrorism teams, who referred to the men as the “high-fivers” for their celebratory behavior on the New Jersey waterfront. Some were placed in solitary confinement for at least forty days; some were given as many as seven liedetector tests. One of the Israelis, Paul Kurzberg, brother of Sivan, refused to take a lie-detector test for ten weeks. Then he failed it.

Meanwhile, two days after the men were picked up, the owner of Urban Moving Systems, Dominik Suter, a 31- year-old Israeli national, abandoned his business and fled the United States for Israel. Suter’s departure was abrupt, leaving behind coffee cups, sandwiches, cell phones and computers strewn on office tables and thousands of dollars of goods in storage.

~~~~

Click on link for the rest:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17260.htm

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By ofersince72, May 7, 2010 at 9:40 pm Link to this comment

The real punch line to the joke….

Those manipulators in the Pentagon….they don’t care

if you believe their stories or not,  it matters not to

them…..it is just their story to justify what they are

about or are going to do..they don’t if you believe them!
or if you don’t !!
Just as long as they have enough on paper to keep
Public Law 107-40 on a roll…......

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By Leefeller, May 7, 2010 at 9:39 pm Link to this comment

You know this tin foil hat caucus, seems to be a real conspiracy, I cannot wait to go to the convention!

Volma my fragile ego is a touchy subject and my annalist tells me I shouldn’t cry every time someone calls it to my attention!

If I am only half as intelligent as Volma thought I was before, where did the other half go? Though, I have been feeling light headed lately and I just thought it was the Tequila!

Aniacissie, thanks for the comments also down the drain seems…. a dreary demise.

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By elisalouisa, May 7, 2010 at 9:27 pm Link to this comment

One cannot help but wonder what is really at the bottom of the zealous quest of some to ridicule those who do believe that the blowing up of the WTC was something other than what msm reports, even calling it “small potatoes” as conspiracies go.  You might say they are fanatic in their continual whining about this, going to great lengths to place any and all conspiracies in the same category thus dismissing them all.  Some continually state that those who delve into the whys of this extremely significant event as to global power are ill informed and just having “fun.” Wow, the suckers are going to really believe that. Yeah, right. If how or why the WTC was blown up really doesn’t matter why the continual discussion?  Blowing up the World Trade Center gave
legitimacy to the Iraq war, the war in Afghanistan and soon to be war in Iran. That is hardly small potatoes. Who gains from such wars? Certainly Israel is safer with our presence there. The power elite gain financially from the control of oil in those areas. Are they ruthless enough to conspire and bring such a tragic event into being? We all must answer that question for ourselves.
Chris Hedges speaks the truth as to many situations in the world and is fearless in this manner. More power to you Chris.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 7, 2010 at 9:23 pm Link to this comment

THE MAJORITY OF AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE NOT HAPPY

The american people whose lives, day in and day out, pass in a monotony of boredom, sadness and hopelessness are the majority; they are the mainstay of the american society. The alarm of mobilization breaks into their lives like a promise; the familiar and long-hated is overthrown, and the new and unusual reigns in its place.

Changes still more incredible are in store for them in the future. For better or worse? For the better, of course because what can seem worse to the american than the conditions that they live in this capitalist hell of suffering and pain?

And the world that great numbers of people know and experience on a daily basis: the world of work, or lack of work, the vast and complicated series of everyday social relationships, the startling changes in life in recent decades, the enormous inequalities and iniquities.

The slipping into the social abyss of so many, the struggle to keep one’s head above water that characterizes the lives of tens of millions in the USA and billions worldwide, and the emotional conditions, the drama, tragedy and comedy associated with all that


.

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