Apologies for the (nearly) duplicate posting of the first half of a two-part post
- toggling between Safari and Firefox.

By mary Hicks, August 22 at 1:42 am
===================================
You must be a woman on the edge with lots of hormone-imbalance to post the same garbage three times in one thread. That’s speaks volume for your being the advocate of the Devil that you are.

It has escaped your little brain that if what you quote is true and attributable to Faisal Abdu Rauf, he would have been in jail a long time ago. For your enlightenment, if you’re ever susceptible to that, there is an undercover FBI or CIA agent assigned to every mosque in America. And if he was to say or imply any of the things that you deliberately highlight, then Faisal would have been imprisoned a long time ago. And by the way this man has been for many years the Imam of Masjid al-Farah, a small modest mosque only twelve blocks from the site of the former WTC.

Mary Hicks,
At least someone has done their homework on the subject. I am left, however, still wondering how many Muslims would be actual participants in this. I’m not doubting any of what you say here, but I refer to how many people in this country who blindly followed Bush the Idiot’s continuation of the Crusades and who are now starting to see what really happened.

When I had mentioned Dulles, Spellman, Reagan, and the Bush family misanthropes, earlier, it was to illustrate how self-agrandizing, narrow minded bigots can still climb the ladders of power. We had plenty of people on this side of the pond who have fallen for that crap over the years, just as I would imagine the same thing is happening on the other side of the pond.

The world is changing faster each day, particularly as a result of the internet’s ability to quickly educate people about what is happening in the world in real time. Not to dismiss your material, here, I am still left thinking that what is happening with the mosque situation is karmic blowback from decades of
western empire building when, instead, we should have preaching and teaching tolerance and recognition of sovereignty.

So, here we are in a Star Trekkian, Loki vs. Bele, knock-down, drag-out, fight to the end with no end in sight. Each side has so long forgotten why the duel continues to be fueled that it only sees outright destruction of the other as a solution.

Whether the story of Ishmael and Isaac is actual history or merely a parable (I believe the latter), it illustrates that level in the evolution of human spirituality where man had to battle those parts within him that remained hidden from his conscious self. On the outside, the story appears to be an ancient soap opera, but a closer look reveals that man cannot actually see his course unless he also knows where he had come from. That, I suggest, was the function of Ishmael, except rather than be able to see the beauty in the parable, people have used each brother to align themselves into hiding behind their own denial of their spiritual immaturity.

All this discussion is for naught as long as the deniers on both sides continue to see each other as “the problem”, one that has to be excised like a tumorous cancer. Just as within the human body, we may often cut away, and cut away again, but we never really get to the true reason of what was it about the energetics of our way of “thinking” that allowed the cancer to form in the first place?

We are thus left with crazed Imams holding secret meetings all over the world and crazed PNAC whackos plotting to also take over the world; meanwhile the average people on the street just want to go out with their families to get hummus or a hamburger.

[continued from above]

“Recognizing the centrality of Article 17, however, takes on critical importance
in light of national and increasingly international furor over Feisal Abdul Rauf ‘s
plan to construct a towering 15-story mosque at Ground Zero. Entitled
“Understanding the role and the nature of work of “The Islamic Center” in every
city with what achieves the goal of the process of settlement,” Article 17 states,

“The center we seek is the one which constitutes the “AXIS” of our Movement,
the “PERIMETER” of the circle of our work, our “balance center”, the “BASE” for
our rise and our “Dar al-Arqam” to educate us, PREPARE US AND SUPPLY OUR
BATTALIONS IN ADDITION TO BEING THE “NICHE” OF OUR PRAYERS. (emphasis
added) [In original, bold emphasis; here, caps.]

...

“Article 17 of the MB strategy for North America ... clearly invokes the need for
military and politically supremacist strategies.

“This is in order for the Islamic center to turn – in action not in words – into a
seed “for a small Islamic society” which is a reflection and a mirror to our
central organizations. The center ought to turn into a “beehive” which produces
sweet honey. Thus, the Islamic center would turn into a place for study, family,
battalion, course, seminar, visit, sport, school, social club, women gathering,
kindergarten for male and female youngsters, the office of the domestic
political resolution, and the center for distributing our newspapers, magazines,
books and our audio and visual tapes.

“??In brief we say: we would like for the Islamic center to become “The House of
Dawa”‘ and “the general center” in deeds first before name. As much as we own
and direct these centers at the continent level, we can say we are marching
successfully towards the settlement of Dawa’ in this country.??

“Meaning that the “center’s” role should be the same as the “mosque’s” role
during the time of God’s prophet, … when he marched to “settle” the Dawa’ in
its first generation in Madina. from the mosque, he drew the Islamic life and
provided to the world the most magnificent and fabulous civilization humanity
knew.??This mandates that, eventually, the region, the branch and the Usra turn
into “operations rooms” for planning, direction, monitoring and leadership for
the Islamic center in order to be a role model to be followed. (emphasis
added).10

9 Andrew G. Boston, “Behind the mosque: extremism at Ground Zero,” New
York Post, Jul. 23, 2010,
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/behind_the_mosque
_ yXUJDCpszRLF9dG1heLU1H?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME;= (viewed
7/23/2010).?

10 Akram, “Explanatory Memo on the General Strategic Goal for the Group in
North America, 5/22/1991,” ibid., p. 24.

http://www.alyssaalappen.org/

BR549 - Thanks for your comments.  You’ve asked for my characterization, and
it’s of no importance.  What matters is a review of pertinent documents.  In a
newly posted article, Alyssa Lappen details a planning document from 1991:

“It now seems that Malaysian Islamic ideology also played a big role in
formulating the Muslim Brotherhood strategy to destroy the West from within
and sabotage “its miserable house.” 4

“Those words, of course, paraphrase Article 4 of “An Explanatory Memorandum
on the General Strategic Goal for the Group in North America,” penned by
Mohamed Akram and secretly circulated to trusted Muslim Brothers on May 22,
1991.5

“Also entitled “Understanding the role of the Muslim Brother in North America,”
Article 4 needs no further comment. In its entirety, it succinctly and
frighteningly explains,

“The process of settlement is a “Civilization-Jihadist Process” with all the word
means. The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of
grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within
and “sabotaging” its miserable house by their [own] hands and the hands of the
believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all
other religions. Without this level of understanding, we are not up to this
challenge and have not prepared ourselves for Jihad yet. It is a Muslim’s destiny
to perform Jihad and work wherever he is and wherever he lands until the final
hour comes, and there is no escape from that destiny except for those who
chose to slack. But, would the slackers and the Mujahedeen be equal.” 6

(more info to follow ...)

4 Mohamed Akram, “An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic
Goal for the Group in North America, 5/22/1991,”
http://www.nefafoundation.org/miscellaneous/HLF/Akram_GeneralStrategic
Goal.pdf (viewed 9/18/2007); “Attachment A,” In the U.S. District Court for the
Northern District of Texas Dallas Division, USA vs. Holy Land Foundation for
Relief and Development, http://www.pipelinenews.org/images/2007-05-29-
US v HLF-ListCoConsp irators.pdf (first viewed 6/1/2007).?

5 Akram, “An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the
Group in North America, 5/22/1991,” ibid.; “Attachment A,” In the U.S. District
Court for the Northern District of Texas Dallas Division, USA vs. Holy Land
Foundation for Relief and Development, ibid.?

6 Akram, “Explanatory Memo on the General Strategic Goal for the Group in
North America, 5/22/1991,” ibid., p. 21.?

http://www.alyssaalappen.org/

BR549 - Thanks for your comments.  Of the possible alternatives you’ve listed,
I’d say the closest is an ongoing manifestation of the Crusades.  However,
instead of a band of the Knights Templar venturing out, we face the same
intensity and conviction of absolute rectitude at an individual level and through
a larger societal plan. The Crusades were so crude, though.  The tools and
strategies are quite long-range and far-reaching.  In a newly posted article,
Alyssa Lappen details a planning document from 1991:

“It now seems that Malaysian Islamic ideology also played a big role in
formulating the Muslim Brotherhood strategy to destroy the West from within
and sabotage “its miserable house.” 4

“Those words, of course, paraphrase Article 4 of “An Explanatory Memorandum
on the General Strategic Goal for the Group in North America,” penned by
Mohamed Akram and secretly circulated to trusted Muslim Brothers on May 22,
1991.5

“Also entitled “Understanding the role of the Muslim Brother in North America,”
Article 4 needs no further comment. In its entirety, it succinctly and
frighteningly explains,

“The process of settlement is a “Civilization-Jihadist Process” with all the word
means. The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of
grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within
and “sabotaging” its miserable house by their [own] hands and the hands of the
believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all
other religions. Without this level of understanding, we are not up to this
challenge and have not prepared ourselves for Jihad yet. It is a Muslim’s destiny
to perform Jihad and work wherever he is and wherever he lands until the final
hour comes, and there is no escape from that destiny except for those who
chose to slack. But, would the slackers and the Mujahedeen be equal.” 6

[more info to follow-]

4 Mohamed Akram, “An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic
Goal for the Group in North America, 5/22/1991,”
http://www.nefafoundation.org/miscellaneous/HLF/Akram_GeneralStrategic
Goal.pdf (viewed 9/18/2007); “Attachment A,” In the U.S. District Court for the
Northern District of Texas Dallas Division, USA vs. Holy Land Foundation for
Relief and Development, http://www.pipelinenews.org/images/2007-05-29-
US v HLF-ListCoConsp irators.pdf (first viewed 6/1/2007).?

5 Akram, “An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the
Group in North America, 5/22/1991,” ibid.; “Attachment A,” In the U.S. District
Court for the Northern District of Texas Dallas Division, USA vs. Holy Land
Foundation for Relief and Development, ibid.?

6 Akram, “Explanatory Memo on the General Strategic Goal for the Group in
North America, 5/22/1991,” ibid., p. 21.?

http://www.alyssaalappen.org/

Mosque Debate Creates Teachable Moment
Jeffrey Brown gets the perspectives of columnists Eugene Robinson and Ross Douthat on the debate over whether an Islamic community center and mosque should be built near Ground Zero. http://www.newslook.com/videos/242707-mosque-debate-creates-teachable-moment?autoplay=true

Star crossed optimism.

Mary Hicks,
Compelling info.

I’m just curious as to how much that Islam might have just been doing the
Middle Eastern equivalent of what the the Crusades, Cardinal Spellman, John
Foster Dulles, Reagan, and both Bush idiots did in their blind pursuit of
political objectives rather than practice tolerance.

Are we just dealing with Islamic versions of Bush, here, religious zealots with
too many soapboxes to pontificate from, but only a teaspoonful of gray matter?
In Terrence McKenna’s “Timewave” fashion, might we be experiencing an
continual increase of idiots coming out of the woodwork to convince everyone
else that they are the only one’s capable of being in charge and who can handle
the world’s problems?

Nice post. BTW

More about Cordoba as a symbol, this from journalist Alyssa A. Lappen:

“For those knowledgeable in Islamic history, the name of Rauf’s Cordoba Institute telegraphs his deceptiveness. Cordoba (also the name for Chautauqua’s proposed new Muslim house) ruled the Islamic Caliphate for most of Spain from Tariq ibn Zayid’s 711 invasion through 1248. Cordoba controlled some Spanish regions until their full liberation in 1492. Neither the Umayyads (who ruled monolithically until about 1031), nor the vicious
Almoravids (who swept over the Atlas mountains into Spain in 1080), ruled non-Muslims so kindly. Islamic harshness varied, but remained ever-present. Rauf blatantly whitewashes the brutal Islamic history in Spain. While others also purvey this historical falsehood, Muslim rule in Spain never remotely
approached the mythic beneficence Rauf pretends.53 [footnote in article extensively refers to Richard Fletcher, Moorish Spain, University of California, 2006, 2nd ed., 206 pp.]

“Muslims have traditionally destroyed the worship houses of virtually every other faith. Islam plundered tens of thousands (if not 100,000s) of Christian churches and monasteries, synagogues and holy Jewish holy archaeological sites, Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, Sikh and other temples and retreats. To
advance jihad, Islam then claimed them all as “mosques,” forever Muslim. That’s what Rauf really wants at Ground Zero, to proclaim Islamic victory.”

http://www.alyssaalappen.org

mary Hicks, August 21 at 2:44 am Link to this comment

Arabian Sinbad:

Other than ad hominem attacks because of my identification of the Muslim proclivity to build mosques on top of destroyed temples and churches, you
haven’t addressed the questions raised:

Who is funding the building and support of the Cordoba Initiative/Shariah Index Project?
==============================================
This is not a place or time to review with you precisely 1444 years of Islamic history and compare it with the Christian history and to prove to you the false propaganda of your so-called “Muslim proclivity to build mosques on top of destroyed temples and churches.” The few times in history that Muslims build mosques over deserted and crumbling ancient buildings is in fact a proof of their capacity to beautify, develop and revive pieces of deserted real states not in use anymore, standing as sores to the eyes.

If we were to focus precisely on the issue at hand, which is the proposed project of an Islamic Center in a spot of an old deserted and crumbling building, that was for sale since eight years ago, with no buyers, then that’s a proof of Muslims’ proclivity to beautify, develop and revive dead urban pieces of land. This is capitalism at best when needed. Furthermore, the project will create jobs and small businesses opportunities for many Americans.

Now,as to who is funding the building, this is a mute irrelevant question since everything in capitalism is funded by investors, community fund-raising, special interest groups or rich philanthropists. How is that different from monies raised for political offices in a democracy by lobbyists and interest groups? I leave that for you to answer.

As to the Shari’ah Index Project you are talking about, I honestly have not heard about it, therefore I can’t address this issue. But if there is such thing, this would be a purely scholarly endeavor, and not the weapons of mass-destruction that the USA and its ally and friend Israel excel in building and using in Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan, as they previously did in Nagasaki, Hiroshima, Vietnam, the Philippines and many other places in the world!

As to the person of Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf who is behind this project, I have met him personally and found that he is very meek, humble and most moderate Muslim I have ever met. In fact, he practices the Sufi path of Islam, which emphasis human love, tolerance, and compassion, i.e is the spiritual dimension of Islam, not its political dimension. If you need to be be enlightened again, read his book, “WHAT’S RIGHT WITH ISLAM IS WHAT’S RIGHT WITH AMERICA.” It is forwarded by Karen Armstrong, a former Christian nun and a very well-known scholar on religions and received a great amount of praise by several newspapers and prominent figures.

Arabian Sinbad:

Other than ad hominem attacks because of my identification of the Muslim
proclivity to build mosques on top of destroyed temples and churches, you
haven’t addressed the questions raised:

Who is funding the building and support of the Cordoba Initiative/Shariah Index
Project?

The Shariah Index Project (SIP) had its initial meeting in Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia, in August 2006.  Attendees explored the idea of creating an “index”
to measure the degree of Shariah governance for ALL nations, and deliverables
from the meeting were (1) a “vision” statement and (2) a roadmap for the
project. Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf convened and chaired this meeting, which
included “four scholars from India, Malaysia, and Pakistan.”

A total of eight meetings on the above topics were subsequently held, and the
number of Shariah advisors/participants increased to 14. Seven have been
identified; who are the other seven?

Silverhawk,

Thanks. Whether it be on TD’s different threads or out in the rest of the real world, the one thing we have to remember above all else is that the illuminists and globalists have been anticipating the upcoming fracturing of our own cultural and social network. They are counting on us not being able stop
quarreling amongst ourselves in order to mount any cohesive counter-offensive.

We all know people who are still in a state of denial about what is happening to this country. They were in denial about Saddam’s lack of involvement in the WTC, they were in denial about the WTC being a false flag, they were in denial about nothing being accomplished during “Mission Accomplished”, and they are in denial about “Hope and Change” as they continue to hope for change. They just can’t believe that their “saviour” is actually a part of the problem being perpetrated against the American people.

We just have to be a little patient with them because we need to remember that we have more in common with each other than the illuminists are trying to convince us that we don’t. Many people’s whole paradigm is being shattered and we have to keep enough wits about us to keep that helping hand out there.

There are millions of good decent Muslims out there too who just want to be good people. If they’d wanted to strictly adhere to Muslim rule and be with those only of their own kind, they’d have their keisters parked in a sand dune 6000 miles from here. Instead, many of them have taken the good parts of their
religion and tried to blend it with the good parts of what used to be successful capitalism in a free society, here in America. They don’t want to go back to the middle ages any more than we do, so this issue isn’t about religion or even being Muslim; it’s about shitty political maneuvers being rammed down people’s throats.

How Amy could miss this is beyond me. Maybe she needs a dope slap.

>Arabian Sinbad, August 20 at 7:19 pm I would echo Daisy Khan’s words and say, “I am afraid and extremely saddened for my adopted homeland of 35 years, after losing my original homeland to the Israeli savage occupation with the help of the governments of my adopted homeland. This is indeed more than I bargained for when I made that fateful decision to immigrate to America.>

Hello there. I’ve been watching very carefully what has been going on in your homeland. I have never visited your homeland, but like I say I have been watching very closely such programs as “Mosaic”. Also, I very much enjoyed a program, Gosh I can’t remember the exact title, but it was a movie of a train ride, that ended in Damascus, interviewing many displaced Palestinians as they traveled along the way. Anyway, I am appalled at the way my country treats you, that is to say, how my country turns a blind eye to your suffering, how President Obama never mentioned Operation Cast Lead, which they pulled out the very evening of his innauguration, so cynical and calculated, the appalling way that Israel used internationally banned weapons like White Phosphorus against your people, how when they lost 13 (well, some were from friendly fire, so only 9 lost on the Israeli side), and yet how over 1400 of your brothers and sisters, down to the very young, were martyred in retaliation (nearly 5,000 injured). Such disproportinate use of force against your people. I could go on and on, but what I really wanted to say was that I wanted to welcome you to my country. You are very welcome here, and I pray that some sort of just peace can befall your people. I’ve been reading about your history, going back to about 1917, the Sikes Pico Accord, the Balfour Agreement, the way it was back then (demographics of your homeland as seen on a map, as they existed in 1917, your brothers and sisters with a scattering of Jewish people here and there, I was amazed), how immigrants from Eastern Europe and America have displaced your people, how you have lost your homes that you had deeds and titles to, how they are living in camps in Lebanon and so forth, how my country funds the military spending of Israel, how terribly one-sided it is, how your children stand there with only a stone against the most highly armed militaries in the Middle East, David has truly become Goliath, so again please let me say at least from the point of view of this American citizen, welcome to our country, your long ago adopted country, and please don’t feel that your plight goes completely unheard amongst us Americans. I can’t stand how anyone can say something that is in anyway not pro-Israel, such as the CNN correspondent Octavia Nasr, or the long-time and well respected Helen Thomas, and boom you are gone. The bias here is unbelievably one-sided. I was appalled to see the Goldstone report summarily dismissed in our Congress, by such a huge majority, that was appalling and I was ashamed of my country. So once again, please may I say, “Welcome”, dear child of God, to my country!

Arabian Sinbad,

Hey dude, slow down. I wasn’t against the mosque for religious reasons either, only political ones, and that isn’t necessarily permanent. This is just BAD timing, even if it isn’t square on Ground Zero.

Mary Hicks brought up some very pertinent issues, and at least she wasn’t the one being rude in doing so.

BR549 >In your Escape from Freedom bit, it reminded me of that time I spent years ago as a car salesmen. For all practical purposes>

Hey man, I went back and read your other posts and see I totally misunderstood your response, sorry about that, it’s been a long week for me. You were trackin’ pretty good there all along this thread.

By mary Hicks, August 20 at 2:05 pm Link to this comment

“It < is > about Ground Zero. It’s symbolic.
It was no accident of public relations that “Córdoba Initiative” was chosen as the title of the Ground Zero mosque project…”
================
You are no good “mary;” unlike the noble honorable “Mary,” mother of Jesus Christ; so I think you dishonor this noble name with your false propaganda and by picking up the rants of bigots, racists and fear-mongering.

In the memory of Muslims and informed non-Muslims, Cordoba symbolizes exactly the opposite of your filthy evil propaganda; it symbolizes a period and a place when Muslims, Jews and Christians created and experienced a culture of unmatched tolerance and coexistence in the annals of human history.

Because you’re an ignoramus, I challenge you to read, if you’re a reader at all, the book entitled “The Ornament of the Word” by Maria Rosa Menocal, a Catholic professor at Yale University. In fact, the sub-title of this wonderful scholarly work is “How Muslims, Jews and Christians Created a culture of Tolerance in Medieval Spain.”

You should be ashamed of yourself ignorant, bigoted lady!

It < is > about Ground Zero. It’s symbolic. 

It was no accident of public relations that “Córdoba Initiative” was chosen as
the title of the Ground Zero mosque project. The city of Córdoba was the
capital of al-Andalus, the Umayyad Caliphate in Iberia, and the famous
Córdoba Mosque was built atop the rubble of a destroyed church. 

Peaceful conquest is a historical anomaly, however — from its inception until
its long decline began in 1683, Islam expanded solely through violence. 
Wherever Islam expanded violently, it built mosques at the sites of its
victories. The minarets rose over the rubble of destroyed churches, 
synagogues, and temples to stand as symbols of Islam’s conquest of the kuffar. 
The Córdoba Mosque was an architectural announcement of the Moorish
triumph over Christian Iberia. 

The Córdoba Initiative thus provides an obvious historical analogy to the
Islamic victory on September 11th, 2001, at Ground Zero. The significance of
the name and place will not be lost on any educated Muslim who hears about
the project. 

What has NOT been revealed is the source of funding for construction. What
also has not been revealed are the parameters of the Shariah Index Initiative. 

The Ground Zero Mosque has at least 6 mystery floors. We suggest that they’ll
be used by the Shariah Index Project. 

The Shariah Index Project was built by at least 14 Shariah experts. We have the
identities probably of 7 of them, and Rauf should reveal the other 7 right away. 

The Shariah Index Project generated at least 16 documents and maybe a final
book, and Rauf should release all of these – right away. 

The issues at stake in the Ground Zero Mosque and the Shariah Index Project
are not about Americans supporting the Constitution’s protection of religious
freedom. Americans support that protection. 

The issues at stake here are about Americans protecting the Constitution from
Shariah-adherent groups using the protective guise of religious freedom to
attack the Constitution itself – using a triumphal Ground Zero mosque as “the
base” for a project to institutionalize Shariah in America.

To those who would ask the 9/11 Truth folks to offer up some hard evidence or just shut up, I would offer you two items, (two of many), and then I am going to indeed shut up:

1. Observe the following video of WTC7, which also fell on 9/11:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A

After you watch it a couple of times, watch it again, only do not focus your attention on the front of the building so much but rather the right hand side of the building, near the back edge of the building. Focus at the bottom of the building, and move your eyes up toward the top of the building, just before it collapses. Did you see anything there? Now watch the front of the building, near the right hand edge of the building and again move your eyes up, reaching the top of the building just before the collapse. Did you see anything there? Remember, NIST (National Institute of Science and Technology), the government agency tasked with explaining this collapse, in it’s final report, said the collapse was due to diesel fires, of which there were two or three near the bottom of the building. Do you believe they are telling the truth?

2. Observe the following video of a woman named “Jessica” (God Bless her and rest her soul), who is standing in the tower where the plane went in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px-nflAtHJY&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSsCAylLBaU

Now, Jessica is giving testimony. She is saying in effect: “Here I am, a flesh and blood human being. I am standing here where soon people are going to say that it was so hot that it melted the steel support columns here above my head”.

Folks, you decide. I don’t think I have any predisposition to any forgone conclusions of being screwed before we start as BR549 just stated, or that there is no hard evidence, as the gentlemen who says “Geesh…. get over it”. Soon, on the 9th anniversary, you are going to hear a barrage of hate directed against a group of people who may have been enticed into going through the gates at the airport, but who never brought down any buildings, and therefore did not kill the vast majority of those that lost their lives, and in my estimation, did not kill anyone at all. There is overwhelming evidence that no commercial jet (unmodified standard commercial jet airliner) was involved in any of the four incidents. An intact jet airliner did not fall in Shanksville. There are no engines, no luggage, no bodies, nothing but a hole and some smoke, with a second debris field 6-8 miles away. A plane may have been shot out of the sky, but an intact one did not crash in Shanksville. As to the why’s and wherefore’s, you draw your own conclusions, but it appears someone wants you to direct your anger for this crime away from them and toward a few if not all Muslim’s. Don’t be in a rush to judge the Muslims just because they are different from the prevailing culture of our country. How frightened they must feel of this gathering storm of hatred, especially from the Christian Right, who claim that all 1.6 Billion Muslims are going to Hell. Jesus said “To the extent that you do it unto the least of these, you do it unto me”. Jesus also said “Be Ye clever as serpents, yet harmless as doves”. He didn’t want us to be blind followers and to avoid skeptism, just not to hurt anyone.

Silverhawk, August 20 at 1:11

Nice posts.

In your Escape from Freedom bit, it reminded me of that time I spent years ago as a car salesmen. For all practical purposes, some people might as well have just walked into the show room, ass first, with their shorts drawn down. That was how they viewed having to buy a car. No matter how fair you tried to be with at least that part of the population, if you treated them courteously and tried to be honest, to them, something must have been wrong and they couldn’t figure out what it was. They were so imprinted with this mindset of being screwed that they
couldn’t recognize when they weren’t.

In response to the gentleman who feels that a large number of people could not possibly keep a secret: consider the Manhattan Project: Ten’s of thousands of people worked on a secret project, yet had no idea of their individual contribution to the end result. This is accomplished through a conscious methodology called “Compartamentalization”, i.e. keeping each portion of the whole concealed from the balance of the whole. And in this case, fear of standing against what by now is a well established prevailing opinion, even if it were a lie, is very difficult to express, and the temptation is to avoid ridicule and derision. Also, it is difficult to go against the group dynamic. For example, if you were standing in a stadium in 1930’s Germany and 100,000 people were shouting “Sieg Heil”, it might just be difficult to go against the grain, wouldn’t it? I noticed that you did not address any of the 12 points, and why should folks keep silent about a lie that has such far reaching implications? There is no statute of limitations on something that violates everything we hold so near and dear about our country. I know it is frightening for us to consider possibilies that are so dark, but we have been taken in before (The Lusitania that drew us into World War I, the Gulf of Tonkin incident, etc), and such false flag incidents have been totally taken advantage of, haven’t they? An author named Eric Fromm wrote (in the 1930’s) a book called “Escape From Freedom”, where he points out that people actually will run away from freedom, because they do not want to grapple with difficult decisions and would rather have someone else tell them who to hate, etc., and of course someone like Adolf Hitler was all too glad to oblige. Mr. Fromm pointed out that it would be in the coming modern democracies where this phenomenon would be most evident. People of true power, such as those who used these technical experts to perpetrate such acts, would like nothing more than for the citizens to be pitted against one another in false paradigms such as left/right, Christian/Muslim, etc. They fear nothing more than those same citizens waking up and informing themselves and coming to the conclusion that they will stand together rather than apart to protect themselves from such threats to their country and their planet from those, well, let me put it this way: “There ain’t no room for the hopeless sinner whom would hurt all mankind, Just to save his own” (“People Get Ready”, written by Curtis Mayfield). If we blindly just accept the lies, where will we stop in our silence? Shall we just stick out our arm and say “Yes, I’ll have that RFID, thanks very much, you now have total contol of the entire population of the world”, you got what you wanted, what you desired. We just shut up because we didn’t want to be ridiculed and called conspiracy theorists.

9/11 Victim’s Mother Supports Islamic Center
Talat Hamdani lost her son, Salman, in the September 11 terrorist attacks. He was a NYPD cadet and an EMT. Hamdani supports the construction of an Islamic center near ground zero, saying not all muslims are terrorists. http://www.newslook.com/videos/242426-9-11-victim-s-mother-supports-islamic-center?autoplay=true

Amy,

First of all, I am ever so grateful for your tireless service. Thank you so much.

Now, my comment: After all this time can you not see the harm that is being done by not addressing the issue of 9/11 Truth right up front, and not letting the Christian Right have it established that the government version of events is the true version of what happened. It’s the same old ploy, redirect the legitimate anger and frustration of citizens toward a target group instead of the real cause of their suffering, e.g. 1930’s Germany. We are letting the hatred get way out of hand because we have not challenged the official story in the first place, in fear I guess of being called conspiracy theorists, knowing all the time that the official version is in and of itself the most unbelievable of all the conspiracy theories.

1. Thick black smoke rising from the towers, not exactly an indication of a hot fire.
2. Hydrocarbon fires, even intense ones, have never collapsed the frame of a steel high-rise building.
3. There is hard evidence collected from the dust from the towers at four locations (military grade red-gray chips of thermite and nanothermite).
4. Jet fuel cannot melt steel, but thermite (aluminum has a violent appetite for oxygen, and when started, this material starts a runaway reaction that reaches a temperature of 2,975F, the melting point of iron) can.
5. While thermite can melt the columns and get them out of the way, nanothermite can pulverize the concrete, causing dust to accumulate all over lower Manhattan.
6. Analogy: A sports car (top of building) traveling at 80mph can in no way expect a semi (bottom of building) traveling at 50mph, to just jump out of the way. Example: You can not expect to go through a door that is closed in front of you (path of most resistance).
7. Asymmetrical stimulus applied to building (plane hits corner of building) cannot produce a symmetrical result (columns on far side collapse simultaneously as the area hit).
8. Using pictures and film already found in citizen’s homes (Magazines and DVD’s), and therefore cannot be digitally altered, the DVD produced by the Hour of Power (“In Plane Site”) shows footage of Fox News shortly after the hit on the Pentagon, of Fire Engine 11 and firemen fighting the fire. The top line of the building has not yet collapsed, and there is only a hole in the building. No evidence whatever of any damage from wings, the rear stabilizer, etc.
9. Reported speed of aircraft to hit one of the towers is 510 knots, 110 knots over max rated by Boeing. The thick air of sea level flight would have broken up the airframe of the plane at that speed, i.e. controlled flight would no be possible.
10. Same DVD mentioned above examines photos already in citizen’s homes, showing the entering jet having military style attachments to the fuselage, running along 25% of the fuselage, clearly not a commercial jet.
11. Shanksville, PA, where is the debris of an intact jet, the engines, the seats, the luggage, the bodies. Why is there an second debris field 8 miles away?????
12. You get the picture, I can go on all day with this stuff, such as why is the most robust air defense system in the world stood down so that a plane, with an attack already underway, can turn around from eastern PA, shut off it’s transponder, and fly 300 miles to the Pentagon, and not be intercepted. Why did the pilot (who could not even fly a Cesna in FL) not just nose down into the building, why do a military dive turn (G forces not possible in a commercial plane) and hit the building at ground level (again, causing no visible damage to the building other that a hole).

If we allow this “illusion” to stand, this magic trick pulled off by technical experts, and not patsies with boxcutters, there will be no end to the evil (which can only triumph when good men stand silent) to come into this world, through redirected hatred at the wrong folks, and we will be forced to repeat history again.

Photoshock,

I hear what you’re saying. I have no problem with that. We just differ on the means to that end. We still have people that still don’t trust the Japanese after 69 years, but most of them have died out, so the younger members of our population have no sense of what actually took place back then. While many people have tried to get on with their lives, far too many have been intentionally ignored by our own government.

Then there was Korea and Viet Nam and people are still screwed up because of the trauma from those events. I don’t mean to be sarcastic, but how the hell do you think you’re going to start the healing process and lay THAT guilt trip onto those who were most effected, when it was the government that lied to them to get them into every one of those wars and continue, to this day, to use the members of the military as sacrificial pawns?

I know there are a lot of people trying to forgive and forget, but that’s what the government wants US to do. And what if all this is nothing more than expecting the American public to forgive the Muslims for something they didn’t even do? Talk about misdirected energies.

It’s one thing to engage in the healing process for our own social and personal sanity; it’s quite another to have one culture dancing around their continued harboring of resentments of another for totally bogus reasons. Meanwhile, the corporate trouble makers, who created this mess in the first place, are out there handing out the verses to “We Are The World” ........ and people are acting like sheep.

Re: BR549, the idea that any ‘truth commission’ will
happen in 1,000 years is an obvious lie. Waiting
until this so-called truth commission happens, will
never get the ‘social center’ built.
This is really not a mosque. It is a social center
the likes of which exist all over this country in the
form of Jewish Community Centers. Only the top two
floors will be used a sanctuary for prayer, unless
you count the basketball court and other facilities
as a mosque.
I, for one, do not see the need for the intolerant,
hate-filled speech that exists in America today.
After WWII, we readily accepted the German-Americans
back into the communities they came from. Why the
disparity between them and the Islamic Community?
Because they are not like us, white anglo-saxon
peoples who inhabit Western Europe.
The same kind of prejudice as is happening to those
of Islamic descent happened to those of Japanese
descent. These hard-working Americans encountered
such hate-filled vitriol that they retreated into
insular communities and did not reach out to those of
other faiths and heritage for many years. These hard-
working Americans, who happen to be of Islamic
descent are doing the right thing by showing that the
majority of their people are not zealots and fanatics
who preach the death of infidels and Zionists.
Let us remember that America is the land of the
second chance, which some of us, have forgotten.

All I can say Bravo Amy Goodman There are lot more good Muslims in this world then those fwe bed ones.

“I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it
stands.  One nation, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all.”

(I quote the Pledge as it was in my youth, before some overheated religious fanatics inserted a prepositional phrase that seems to many to limit its “coverage” to Christians.)

Salman, the first name of the young man who died, in the opening sentence is the same name, in different spelling, as my beloved Zadie, Zalmon (Solomon in English),
“zadie” is yiddish for grandfather. My zadie was Orthodox Jew, very religious.

I have been saying, since the start of this story, that it feels like something out of “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” by William L. Shirer.  (Read the book)  Germany in the 1930s, but Muslims instead of Jews.  NYC is a haven of diversity.

Re:  Molly, August 18 at 11:35 am

Such a typical knee-jerk feminist response ...... Amy missed the point, and a perfect opportunity to address the real issue, ....... just as you apparently have.

To have people sobbing in the streets, “Oh, can’t we all just get along”, while no one has the intellectual capacity to determine why people weren’t getting along in the first place, is a waste of time and energy and only serves to further alienate those people who still feel justified in their feelings; however right or wrong they might be. Shoveling shit against the tide, arranging the deck chairs on the Titannic, call it what you want, but as long you Kumbayah sisters are busy getting everyone in synch, someone might want to tell the camp counselor about the forest fire coming over the horizon.

So, go ahead and keep memorizing your lines.

With all due respect to Mr. & Mrs. Hamdani, Timothy McVeigh was certainly a terrorist and an American, however, unlike the 9/11 bombers, he did not do his deed in the name of Christianity nor did he claim to be of any faith. The 9/11 bombers claimed to have done their deed in the name of Islam, and might I add Islamic leaders were more than very slow to come out publicly and denounce them in the same way and with the same vigor they denounce Americans for despicable acts they commit.
Amy Goodman, who knows very well Mcveigh never claimed any faith or belief, could have and should have corrected the Hamdanis when the statement was made. The fact that she did not leads me to question if she has an agenda.

BR549,

I am quite sure Amy could care less about her “divorce” from you.

She is spot on in this article.

Photoshock,

Having Muslims share our hallowed shores isn’t the problem. There are many
millions of peaceful Muslims, just as there are many peaceful Christians and
Jews. It’s the fanatic meatheads on both side of the aisle and throughout any of
the world’s populations that are the problem. That said, once the country DOES
engage in a real investigation into 9/11, and I do agree with you on the false
flag cover-up, that is when the shit will hit the fan and this country can start to
heal itself.

Until that time comes, however, the issue of a mosque, however close to
ground zero, has nothing to do with healing as long as the Bushes, Clintons,
and Obama continue to rub every American citizen’s face in it.

I would suggest that we move forward with the mosque AFTER a real 9/11
investigation is completed. Then people will see that the real enemies weren’t
hiding in caves 6,000 miles away, but hiding quite successfully in the halls of
Congress and in the last five presidential administrations at a minimum.

The nattering nabobs of negativism are the ones who are causing the hubbub of criticism about the community center at 51 Park Place.
If only these Far Right Wing Nuts would get the facts straight then there would be a place of refuge from the cities intense and otherwise unwelcome life.
For those who truly believe that 51 Park Place is ‘ground zero,’ then visit the proposed site of the community center and see for yourself the proximity of the site to the ‘ground zero,’ memorial.
Nowhere in the world, would this kind of bigotry and bias happen except in a country where the talking heads of Faux News, have any kind of say in what happens in an area far away from the site of the attack on September 11, 2001. Which attack is still to be proven that ‘terrorists’ committed it and which attack is more and more likely to have been a false flag attack, by our government to infect and inject our military into an area of the world where we have no business being.
Please, people of New York and others, stop the madness and mindless bigotry and begin the healing process. Stop blaming and start healing yourselves by allowing for people who are well meaning and wish only to show the American people that Muslim people are among those who also gave their lives to save others on that fateful day.

Amy,
You’ve lost your freakin’ compass. Opposition to the mosque is doing very well right here in the progressive corner and you can try to stuff it into your partisan box, but it only shows how far off course your ship has gone in the last year or so. Did they get to you? Threaten you or your family? What was it that had you cave in?

I used to listen to you religiously. I would race to the radio every day at 9:00
AM to hear your take on everything. You were critical of Bush, you tried to keep
Obama in line, but over the last year or so, you’ve just laid out the satin sheets
and hopped in bed with this administration.

Amy, I loved you for years, but I’ve filed for divorce. You’re so consumed by
this that you’ve lost sight of the fact that you were in a relationship ...... with
your viewers. You strayed, and I’m finding myself having to move on.

Someday, when you realize your illness, you’ll get some help and realize that it
takes work to maintain a relationship; it’s isn’t a one-way street.

Be well.

I would echo Daisy Khan’s words and say, “I am afraid and extremely saddened for my adopted homeland of 35 years, after losing my original homeland to the Israeli savage occupation with the help of the governments of my adopted homeland. This is indeed more than I bargained for when I made that fateful decision to immigrate to America. I must say, therefore, that after 35 years in America, I still don’t feel home. And the bigotry and racism that keeps raising its evil head every now and then, like this latest case of the controversial New York mosque, is a painful reminder that I will live and die as an eternal sojourner exiled, away from my beloved occupied Palestine, which I didn’t even have the good luck of defending her against the Zionist marauders occupiers and dying in the process if necessary. And alas! As I am now approaching the autumn of my life, I feel I will not have an opportunity to be a warrior for the freedom and liberation of my beloved Palestine!