Top Leaderboard, Site wide
September 19, 2014
Truthdig: Drilling Beneath the Headlines
Help us grow by sharing
and liking Truthdig:
Sign up for Truthdig's Email NewsletterLike Truthdig on FacebookFollow Truthdig on TwitterSubscribe to Truthdig's RSS Feed

Newsletter

sign up to get updates


Obama May Have to Send Troops
Too Big to Punish




A Chronicle of Echoes


Truthdig Bazaar more items

 
Report

Libya: Here We Go Again

Email this item Email    Print this item Print    Share this item... Share

Posted on Sep 5, 2011
AP / Sergey Ponomarev

A rebel fighter inspects a house in Tripoli that belonged to Al-Saadi Gadhafi, son of Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi.

By Chris Hedges

Here we go again. The cheering crowds. The deposed dictator. The encomiums to freedom and liberty. The American military as savior. You would think we would have learned in Afghanistan or Iraq. But I guess not. I am waiting for a trucked-in crowd to rejoice as a Gadhafi statue is toppled and Barack Obama lands on an aircraft carrier in a flight suit to announce “Mission Accomplished.” War, as long as you view it through the distorted lens of the corporate media, is not only entertaining, but allows us to confuse state power with personal power. It permits us to wallow in unchecked self-exaltation. We are a nation that loves to love itself.

I know enough of Libya, a country I covered for many years as the Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times, to assure you that the chaos and bloodletting have only begun. Moammar Gadhafi, during one of my lengthy interviews with him under a green Bedouin tent in the sprawling Bab al-Aziziya army barracks in Tripoli, once proposed marrying one of his sons to Chelsea Clinton as a way of mending fences with the United States. He is as insane as he appears and as dangerous. But we should never have become the air force, trainers, suppliers, special forces and enablers of rival tribal factions, goons under the old regime and Islamists that are divided among themselves by deep animosities and a long history of violent conflict.

Stopping Gadhafi forces from entering Benghazi six months ago, which I supported, was one thing. Embroiling ourselves in a civil war was another. And to do it Obama blithely shredded the Constitution and bypassed Congress in violation of the War Powers Resolution. Not that the rule of law matters much in Washington. The dark reasoning of George W. Bush’s administration was that the threat of terrorism and national security gave the executive branch the right to ignore all legal restraints. The Obama administration has made this disregard for law bipartisan. Obama assured us when this started that it was not about “regime change.” But this promise proved as empty as the ones he made during his presidential campaign. He has ruthlessly prosecuted the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, where military planners speak of a continued U.S. presence for the next couple of decades. He has greatly expanded our proxy wars, which rely heavily on drone and missile attacks, as well as clandestine operations, in Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and Libya. Add a few more countries and we will set the entire region alight. 

The NATO airstrikes on the city of Sirte expose the hypocrisy of our “humanitarian” intervention in Libya. Sirte is the last Gadhafi stronghold and the home to Gadhafi’s tribe. The armed Libyan factions within the rebel alliance are waiting like panting hound dogs outside the city limits. They are determined, once the airstrikes are over, not only to rid the world of Gadhafi but all those within his tribe who benefited from his 42-year rule. The besieging of Sirte by NATO warplanes, which are dropping huge iron fragmentation bombs that will kill scores if not hundreds of innocents, mocks the justification for intervention laid out in a United Nations Security Council resolution. The U.N., when this began six months ago, authorized “all necessary measures … to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack.” We have, as always happens in war, become the monster we sought to defeat. We destroy in order to save. Libya’s ruling National Transitional Council estimates that the number of Libyans killed in the last six months, including civilians and combatants, has exceeded 50,000. Our intervention, as in Iraq and Afghanistan, has probably claimed more victims than those killed by the former regime. But this intervention, like the others, was never, despite all the high-blown rhetoric surrounding it, about protecting or saving Libyan lives. It was about the domination of oil fields by Western corporations.

Once the Libyans realize what the Iraqis and Afghans have bitterly discovered—that we have no interest in democracy, that our primary goal is appropriating their natural resources as cheaply as possible and that we will sacrifice large numbers of people to maintain our divine right to the world’s diminishing supply of fossil fuel—they will hate us the way we deserve to be hated. Libya has the ninth largest oil reserves in the world, which is why we react with moral outrage and military resolve when Gadhafi attacks his citizens, but ignore the nightmare in the Congo, where things for the average Congolese are far, far worse. It is why the puppets in the National Transitional Council have promised to oust China and Brazil from the Libyan oil fields and turn them over to Western companies. The unequivocal message we deliver daily through huge explosions and death across the occupied Middle East is: We have everything and if you try and take it away from us we will kill you.

Advertisement

Square, Site wide

New and Improved Comments

If you have trouble leaving a comment, review this help page. Still having problems? Let us know. If you find yourself moderated, take a moment to review our comment policy.

drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, November 8, 2011 at 12:28 pm Link to this comment

Ideology is sometimes the enemy of rational thinking
as well as moral reasoning.  Ameshiea

Agreed.
As you thoroughly demonstrated with two, successive blogs.
With many valid points, twisting the gist into a fairy tale, that denies the basic fact, is
inaccurate, is a type of propaganda, and supports the evil Zionists. Libya was developed
by Muammar AL GHADAFFI, with oil profits, into the highest living standard in Africa,
and increasing.  Libya had a higher “life standard” than is found in the U.S.A.

Throughout his CEO reign of the CIA, as reported by CIA whistle-blowers, GHWBushSr
had numerous “perceived” enemies assassinated.  Which, is a pattern of murder that
many “heads of state” have utilized.  AL GHADAFFI had genuine, “western” and Arab
operatives assassinated and imprisoned, which operatives tried to undermine him from
the inside.  Destroying from the inside, a basic C.I.A. tactic, incorporated by the
GHWBushSr. entourage, used to create a coup détat. 

AL GHADAFFI was successfully uniting African nations into a self-sufficient entity. 
United Africa would have removed the Zionist power and oil vultures from its interns,
and switched from Zionist-printed US dollars to a reliable currency.  Also, the
GHWBushSr entourage wanted to prevent AL GHADAFFI from more broadly publicizing
the fact that the GHWBushSr entourage paid four million, Zionist-printed, US Dollars to
each witness who testified against AL GHADAFFI in the Lockerbie, Scotland, trial.  A
C.I.A. whistle-blower, Susan Lindauer, et.al, revealed the truth about the Lockerbie
incident, that AL GHADAFFI was in no way related.  Thus, the Zionist-controlled,
NATO puppetry was misused to destroy AL GHADAFFI & Libya, before a unified Africa
was attained and the dollar flushed out of existence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHVlU2jHT70&feature=related

Altruists, such as Lisa, are gaining more courage and blogging factual information,
instead of twisting the facts into a fairy tale that supports the Zionist movement. 
Altruists such as Lisa need more courage to speak out, without feeling the need to
apologize for contradicting the Zionist-media propaganda.

Report this
blogdog's avatar

By blogdog, November 8, 2011 at 11:56 am Link to this comment

RE: Libya: a legitimate and necessary debate from an anti-imperialist
perspective By Gilbert Achcar - Friday, March 25, 2011

http://tinyurl.com/67yy5hn

having read this article, I take exception with much of its premise and factual
basis, in particular the thousands of deaths inflicted on so-called peaceful
protesters - from the research I’ve done, the protests were severely violent
from day one - in fact it was an armed insurrection from day one - moreover, it
was planned for a long time - arms were being smuggled to al qaeda
operatives responsible for initiating violence before it ever started - Russian
satellites reported no Libyan Air Force bombings visible - moreover, Gaddafi
requested a UN fact-finding mission - no UN Security Council representatives
ever set foot in Libya before issuing R2P

one has to wonder if Achcar would write the same article today - 6 months later
- Gaddafi agreed to elections in June, but NATO/NTC rejected that - probably
because they knew they’d lose - now with the massive body count due to NATO
bombings - in many cases indiscriminate, extensive atrocities committed by
so-called rebels, severe infighting between ‘rebel’ brigades and finally the
implementation of Sharia Law - a major step backward for women’s rights…
would Achcar write the same article?

I’ll stick with analyses more obvious: NATO’s mission is to fail states - what it
does, everywhere it goes, in service to the global finance oligarchy, which could
not abide Gaddafi’s aggressive efforts for pan-African unity, establishment of
African financial institutions for African development and his plan to launch the
African Gold Dinar, a direct and severely threatening challenge to the IMF /
World bank global debt-service hegemony - if that sounds like ‘conspiracy
theory’, I would counter: wrong, factually supported criminal conspiracy - one
for which the oligarchs should be investigated, indited, prosecuted and
punished to the full measure of the law

the relationship of Libya’s Jamahiriya to the globalists is curiously missing from
Achcar’s article - curious indeed from one whose CV includes: Professor at the
School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) of the University of London. His
books include The Clash of Barbarisms: The Making of the New World Disorder,
published in 13 languages, Perilous Power: The Middle East and U.S. Foreign
Policy, co-authored with Noam Chomsky, and most recently The Arabs and the
Holocaust: The Arab-Israeli War of Narratives. Gilbert Achcar grew up in
Lebanon.

Report this
AMeshiea's avatar

By AMeshiea, November 8, 2011 at 8:13 am Link to this comment

There is clearly a slight rift going on amongst the “Left” regarding the Libyan question. For the most part the Western leftist “intelligentsia” have sided with Hedges (Greenwald, anyone on Counter Punch) , that essentially, anything the Western powers touch, is tainted and doomed to become some mirror or repetition of Iraq and Afghanistan. The analysis usually takes the anti-imperialist framework and often is marked by a degree of orientalist thinking (ie; the Libyan’s can’t possibly want or enact their own revolution; the West must somehow have concocted it).

Often like in the comments of drb, the self-inflicted paranoia of seeing US injustice in foreign affairs makes any conspiracy theory, however tenuous MORE likely than any simple face value explanation (it must be about resources, or independence from Western corporations etc,  NOT about the desire to stop a massacre).

My father is Libyan and I have many family members in Libya, and there is genuine happiness at the outcome of this conflict. It is quite insulting to Libyans to be preached at by Leftists who are wedded to their anti-imperialist propaganda and conspiracies. Not to mention the apologists for Ghadaffi. That people like lisa on here can try and tout his “many” achievements while assuming that his tyrannical activities and corruption at the crony level can be shoved aside, is galling to say the least.

The Heritage Foundation/The Wall Street Journal 2009 Index of Economic Freedom ranked 171 out of 179

Reporters Without Borders 2009 Press Freedom Index
ranked 156 out of 175

Transparency International 2008 Corruption perceptions Index ranked 126 out of 180

Try the argument from another Arab Leftist and staunch anti-Imperialist Gilbert Achcar for size:
from: www . zcommunications . org/libya-a-legitimate-and-necessary-debate-from-an-anti-imperialist-perspective-by-gilbert-achcar

“A final comment: for so many years, we have been
denouncing the hypocrisy and double standard of
imperialist powers, pointing to the fact that they
didn’t prevent the all-too-real genocide in Rwanda
while they intervened in order to stop the fictitious
“genocide” in Kosovo. This implied that we thought
that international intervention should have been
deployed in order to prevent or stop the genocide in Rwanda. The left should certainly not proclaim such absolute “principles” as “We are against Western powers’ military intervention whatever the
circumstances.” This is not a political position, but a religious taboo. One can safely bet that the
present intervention in Libya will prove most
embarrassing for imperialist powers in the future. As those members of the US establishment who opposed their country’s intervention rightly warned, the next time Israel’s air force bombs one of its neighbours, whether Gaza or Lebanon, people will demand a no-fly zone. I, for one, definitely will. Pickets should be organized at the UN in New York demanding it. We should all be prepared to do so, with now a powerful argument.

The left should learn how to expose imperialist
hypocrisy by using against it the very same moral
weapons that it cynically exploits, instead of rendering this hypocrisy more effective by appearing as not caring about moral considerations. They are the ones with double standards, not us.”

Ideology is sometimes the enemy of rational thinking as well as moral reasoning.

Report this
AMeshiea's avatar

By AMeshiea, November 8, 2011 at 7:57 am Link to this comment

Thanks Clay and Lafayette for bringing some modicum
of reason to this.


There is clearly a slight rift going on amongst the
“Left” regarding the Libyan question. For the most
part the Western leftist “intelligentsia” have sided
with Hedges (Greenwald, anyone on Counter Punch) ,
that essentially, anything the Western powers touch,
is tainted and doomed to become some mirror or
repetition of Iraq and Afghanistan. The analysis
usually takes the anti-imperialist framework and
often is marked by a degree of orientalist thinking
(ie; the Libyan’s can’t possibly want or enact their
own revolution; the West must somehow have concocted
it).

Often like in the comments of drb, the self-inflicted
paranoia of seeing US injustice in foreign affairs
makes any conspiracy theory, however tenuous MORE
likely than any simple face value explanation (it
must be about resources, or independence from Western
corporations etc,  NOT about the desire to stop a
massacre).

My father is Libyan and I have many family members in
Libya, and there is genuine happiness at the outcome
of this conflict. It is quite insulting to Libyans to
be preached at by Leftists who are wedded to their
anti-imperialist propaganda and conspiracies. Not to
mention the apologists for Ghadaffi. That people like
lisa on here can try and tout his “many” achievements
while assuming that his tyrannical activities and
corruption at the crony level can be shoved aside, is
galling to say the least.

The Heritage Foundation/The Wall Street Journal 2009
Index of Economic Freedom ranked 171 out of 179

Reporters Without Borders 2009 Press Freedom Index
ranked 156 out of 175
Transparency International 2008 Corruption
Perceptions Index ranked 126 out of 180

Try the argument from another Arab Leftist and
staunch anti-Imperialist Gilbert Achcar for size:
from: link to http://www.zcommunications.org/libya-a-
legitimate-and-necessary-debate-from-an-anti-
imperialist-perspective-by-gilbert-achcar

“A final comment: for so many years, we have been
denouncing the hypocrisy and double standard of
imperialist powers, pointing to the fact that they
didn’t prevent the all-too-real genocide in Rwanda
while they intervened in order to stop the fictitious
“genocide” in Kosovo. This implied that we thought
that international intervention should have been
deployed in order to prevent or stop the genocide in
Rwanda. The left should certainly not proclaim such
absolute “principles” as “We are against Western
powers’ military intervention whatever the
circumstances.” This is not a political position, but
a religious taboo. One can safely bet that the
present intervention in Libya will prove most
embarrassing for imperialist powers in the future. As
those members of the US establishment who opposed
their country’s intervention rightly warned, the next
time Israel’s air force bombs one of its neighbours,
whether Gaza or Lebanon, people will demand a no-fly
zone. I, for one, definitely will. Pickets should be
organized at the UN in New York demanding it. We
should all be prepared to do so, with now a powerful
argument.

The left should learn how to expose imperialist
hypocrisy by using against it the very same moral
weapons that it cynically exploits, instead of
rendering this hypocrisy more effective by appearing
as not caring about moral considerations. They are
the ones with double standards, not us.”

Ideology is sometimes the enemy of rational thinking
as well as moral reasoning.

Report this
drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, November 8, 2011 at 1:23 am Link to this comment

Clay, I don’t know for an absolute fact that there is any Clandestine Force at work in
Libya.  And on the other hand I suspect that you do not know as a matter of fact that
Clandestine Forces are not at work in Libya.  Cliff Carson, September 19 at 2:03 pm

We now know that the defective Frenchman, Sarkozy, led NATO, tool of the
GHWBushSr entourage (Zionists) to destroy Qhaddafi and Libya. We now know that
German leadership is the only government that behaved wisely, and are to be
commended.  Sad, that they did not more actively share their wisdom.

We observe in the attempted suppression of their wise stance, by the Zionist media, the
effect of media propaganda.  Especially, Zionist media propaganda, seeking an attack
on Iran, simply Israeli-Zionist jealousy, fearful of losing exclusive nuke ownership in
the region.  Repeated expression of the “me-first” demand, the result of world
indulgence, pursuant to the Zionist/Hitler false-flag, “The Holocaust.”  Between four
and six million Jewish folk murdered by their leaders, via Zionist/British planning.

I find it distressingly interesting that Madame Carla Bruni, the beautiful, wealthy
model, and 3rd wife of Sarkozy, continues to permit her person to be misused by the
Zionist media to distract from Sarkozy´s stupidity.  Which presents the question, if she
is also owned by the Zionists ?

Bloggers and politicians who state otherwise, display grievous information deficits.
Some of whom are property of Zionists, are simply puppetry, who must use their
intelligence to support Zionism, instead of human altruism.  Some of whom are even
gratis puppetry, which is difficult to believe.

The accurate history of AL Qhaddafi, added to the scapegoat pile of murdered, former
associates of the GHWBushSr entourage, is provided by former CIA agent, Susan
Lindauer   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHVlU2jHT70&feature=related

Report this

By Lisa, November 7, 2011 at 2:02 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The problem I see is that the archetype of the mean dictator runs so deep through us, creates so much fear, that we dismiss what this man has done good for his country, perhaps even humanity. Yes, he killed people, and there is no excuse but he saved more lives overall than kill lives….

If it is true that all the people in Libya had food, clothe, shelter, medical care, education, free study money abroad, work, etc… and the literacy rate went from virtually nothing to 85% than this country has achieved something.

If it is true that the money was used more for the people…( I never saw Gaddafi overly richy looking)
and if it is true that instead of representative democracy they (the tribes) could vote in 2000 Congress halls), then this country achieved more than we did. Why, because we the people of the West have nothing to say. The people who represent the interest of corporations and banks do not represent me. This is a oligarchy even an indirect form of dictatorship. Yes, we are allowed to speak our minds but what difference does it make if we are violently destroy the foundation of human life in favor of infinite growth on a finate planet…

Libya was more local than global, tried to be self-sufficient, had no debt and not interest rates…
Gaddafi ran the country beautifully, except he was too strict with opponents (which must be disagreed with strongly)... yet, he wa friend of Nelson Mandela…

From what I see, it is clear that the archetype of the evil dictator paralyzes people’s critical thinking. Hence, they don’t care about how many people get killed who werre happy under the system.

I heard that Gaddafi saved $150 Billion for his country had a gold standard… great it can be now stolen to bail out bankers some more.
Gaddafi did many things right. I do not think that Libyan people will have food, clothe, shelter, medical care, education, elicticity and water for free…

I even think that Libya had achieved more than the West… did they have homelss people, they had tend cities perhaps from the Beduins….

I just wish that the good things the Libyan Government had in place for the people would be allowed to exist and that capitalism would take some oil but stay away from a country which had their own system of direct democracy, which I as an idea actually admire.

Honestly, non of the politicians represent me and I promise never to vote again because we will wee nothing but more war for the rest of the resources till global warming stops all human activities.

We are just not moving towards localization and sustainability and if we do not do just that we drive life on this planet including us to extinction perhaps…

I sure hope not to be right…
Sending you all love… and may all people investigate hw the evil archetype of the mean dictator not only clouds their vision but also clouds the good things some of these people have done…

At the end of the day we may find that Gaddafi did more good for his country than bad… we can’t know that now as we are not thinking objectively due to the media war and fear.

Remember, “every war begins with a huge media lie.” Michael Collon

Report this
blogdog's avatar

By blogdog, September 19, 2011 at 5:41 pm Link to this comment

RE: “...clandestine forces…”

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/19/us-libya-idUSTRE7810I820110919
[...]
The claim by Gaddafi’s spokesman Moussa Ibrahim that foreign security
personnel had been captured could not be verified and no immediate proof was
presented.

“A group was captured in Bani Walid consisting of 17 mercenaries. They are
technical experts and they include consultative officers,” Gaddafi spokesman
Ibrahim said on Syria-based Arrai television, which has backed Gaddafi.

“Most of them are French, one of them is from an Asian country that has not
been identified, two English people and one Qatari.”

French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe said there were “no French mercenaries in
Libya,” while the British foreign office said it had no information about whether
the report was true. Qatar’s foreign ministry was not available for comment.
NATO, which is staging air strikes on Gaddafi loyalist positions, says it has no
troops on the ground in Libya.

Western nations have sent special forces in the past, and media have reported
that private security firms have aided anti-Gaddafi forces in training, target
ting and with leadership. Gulf Arab states have also sent trainers and arms.

Among the confirmed sightings of foreign security personnel in Libya during
the conflict, the head of a French security firm was shot dead at a checkpoint in
Benghazi in May, and British special forces troops were held for three days by
rebels in March while escorting a spy trying to make contacts.

[...]

Report this

By Cliff Carson, September 19, 2011 at 5:25 pm Link to this comment

Concerning the African United States Plan, from Wikipedia:

“In February 2009, upon being elected chairman of the 53-nation African Union in Ethiopia, Gaddafi told the assembled African leaders: “I shall continue to insist that our sovereign countries work to achieve the United States of Africa.” The BBC reported that Gaddafi had proposed “a single African military force, a single currency and a single passport for Africans to move freely around the continent”. Other African leaders stated they would study the proposal’s implications, and re-discuss it in May 2009.”

And this from Wikipedia:

“The President of Senegal, Abdoulaye Wade, has indicated that the United States of Africa may exist from as early as 2017. The African Union, by contrast, has set itself the task of building a “united and integrated” Africa by 2025.  Gaddafi has also indicated that the proposed federation may extend as far west as the Caribbean: Haiti, Jamaica, the Dominican Republic, and other islands featuring a large African Dispora,  may be invited to join.”


The Empire Builders couldn’t allow this to happen.  They had too many slaves to lose.  Africa has been decimated by the International Financial Cabal ( basically the IMF in this Continent).  Nearly all of Africa’s Minerals and Infrastructure has been stolen by the Money Changers.

Report this
Silence is Complicity's avatar

By Silence is Complicity, September 19, 2011 at 4:31 pm Link to this comment

@ By Cliff Carson, September 19 at 2:03

In Response to Clay Claiborne
========================================
Great response Cliff Carson to the mis-informed Clay Claiborne! I agree with every word you wrote.

Qaddafi might not have been the perfect ruler, or the fake democrat that we have in America, Israel and Europe, but the Libyans, Arabs and Africans will live to regret their fortunes as they realize that they traded an imperfect strong-ruler for a new era of neo-colonialism by the same colonial powers that controlled their resources and fate in not far distant times.

Report this

By Cliff Carson, September 19, 2011 at 2:03 pm Link to this comment

In Response to Clay Claiborne

Clay, I don’t know for an absolute fact that there is any Clandestine Force at work in Libya.  And on the other hand I suspect that you do not know as a matter of fact that Clandestine Forces are not at work in Libya.

What I do see is a set of actions put in motion by the Empire Forces every time that they identify a profitable target to pillage.

Libya is such a target.  So was Iraq.  So is Afghanistan. So was and is Iran.

Are the United States and NATO trying to protect people and bring life, liberty and Democracy to the downtrodden of the World?  If so, are you aware the United States grantees to veto the Palestinian Statehood initiative due later this month?  Wonder Why?

Some things to consider on the Libya situation:

As I said earlier in the thread Libya has Oil and Water that is coveted by - France and Britain.

Qaddafi was trying to form a United States of Africa to protect against Resource Profiteers from Europe and elsewhere.

Qaddafi was also advocating a new currency for the United States of Africa, and a network of countries to break away from the B.I.S. System, World Bank, and IMF, one not controlled the Money Changers.

The hue and cry of the United States,  Britain, and France was that the citizens of Benghazi must be protected.  There is no such cry from these three now that their “Rebels” are threatening the civilians of of Sirte, Bani Walid, etc.  Have you considered that?  Have you got an explanation why the difference?

Explain why when the U.N. called for a Cease Fire in Libya in the beginning of the conflict, only Qaddafi agreed to one, and within one hour of the Qaddafi agreement to observe the cease fire, why was U S Warplanes bombing Qaddafi?

Why were Special Forces from the United States, Britain, and France on the ground in Libya before the first hint of trouble?  Were they there to cause a problem?  It is done with regularity by the U.S. and by Britain and France in their Empire days.  Identify a target, start unrest with black ops,declare “Humanitarian Interference” or “A need to protect OUR interests”.

Has this scenario been played out before when the Empire lusted after some profit source? 

This is my reasoning Clay.

And yours?

Report this
blogdog's avatar

By blogdog, September 18, 2011 at 9:39 pm Link to this comment

most comprehensive collection of news items presented in a context observant
of the massive NATO propaganda seen to date

http://globalciviliansforpeace.com/

e.g.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEvsKv0Tzuo&feature=player_embedded

and

NATO/Rebels retreat in the face of huge Libyan resistance in Bani
Walid

16/09/2011

For weeks NATO have imposed a siege on Bani Walid cutting water, electricity
and food supplies – echoing the scene set by NATO before the Fallujah
massacre in Iraq 2004. The people of Bani Walid have been subjected to NATO
bombardment from the air and ground assaults by NATO special forces and
‘rebels’. Despite this onslaught, NATO and their rebel allies have faced huge
resistance. It begs the question… Where are the calls for a no-fly zone and
humanitarian intervention to prevent this attack on the people of Bani Walid?

”We were shot at from behind,” said Nabil Darawi. “We don’t know where from.
We had gone forward to clear the houses ahead of us.”

As the rebels repeatedly tried to regroup, their positions were found and
targeted within minutes, leading many to repeat allegations that they had
traitors in their midst. The truth is more likely that they could not escape the
binoculars on all sides of the Gaddafi forces and their local supporters, hidden
in their houses.

“We saw civilians but they were with Gaddafi,” said Mr Abouda, a student in
hospitality management in Ealing in his day job.

The mortars caused devastating injuries. After one barrage sent dust billowing
into the air, cars swept into an advance point on the outskirts of town where
ambulances were waiting to take the injured down the road.

They were carried out, two with horribly shattered legs and one unconscious,
and as the rebels began to panic were sped back to Tarhouna, the next city to
Bani Walid. They were followed not long after by streams of pick ups in full
retreat, mortar blasts following them down the road.

Some rebels were holding on but their position seemed hopeless. “We need
more than this. We need tanks and Grad rockets,” said Mohammed al-Wan. “We
don’t want to leave but we have nothing to hit back with at the snipers.”

Outside the mosque at the hamlet of Wishtata, 20 miles from town, arguments
broke out and, crying out for a lack of leaders, fighters said they were not just
retreating but heading home, to Zawiya, to Tripoli, to Tobruk.

The retreat was as demoralised as the advance showed unconsidered optimism.
Neither is a recipe for victory in this long siege.

Report this

By Clay Claiborne, September 18, 2011 at 6:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Cliff, when you say

What better way to stop it than to foment a problem then rush in to help the “Rebels”.  That way they can be in control.  No Libyan alive today is likely to taste true freedom in their lifetime.

I think you just believe the say cynical narrative as Hedges. I don’t think you really know much about conditions in Libya but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Many Libyans will tell you they are experiencing freedom now for the first time in their life time, but you know better don’t you?

First you deny what they were really faced with. “foment a problem” What do you mean by that? Do you mean the problem of Qaddafi’s 42 yr police state dictatorship? Do you mean his slaughter of 2000 peaceful protesters in Benghazi and 800 in Tripoli? Or do you think the people of Libyan were basically fine with that and were “tricked” into rebellion by some sinister outside forces? Hedges offers no proof that that is the case and neither do you.

Also I find it the height of arrogance for “leftist” that didn’t stand to lose any love ones in Benghazi to preach to the Thuwwar about what compromises they should have refused to make “on principle!” Especially after they saved tens of thousands of lives in Benghazi and Misrata with out having to accept any NATO boots on the ground.

Report this

By Cliff Carson, September 18, 2011 at 2:12 pm Link to this comment

Clay Claiborne, September 18 at 7:26 am

Clay

I took his article differently in what you are alluding to.

I am sure the Libyan people want to be freed from a Dictator.  I think Mr. Hedges was pointing out that the Libyan uprising has been Hi-Jacked by special interests.  The Rebels are split.

One side is hi-jacked by Al-Qaeda types.  The other side is hi-jacked by the One World Gov’t types.

My first clue of the OWG influence was when the Rebels established a Central Bank in Bengazi.  They got money to run their revolution but had to give away the country as their part of the bargain.

The next civil war will be between the Moneyed Interest and the people who still want freedom.

When Hedges compared Iraq to Libya I got the impression that he was talking about the forces behind the uprising.  I don’t think for a minute the uprising was fomented strictly by a desire to be free.  If that was the case the Rebels wouldn’t have signed an agreement with the devil.

Libya had three things of interest to the Money Changers: Oil, The largest Fresh Water Reserve in the World, these two they wanted, and the one thing they wanted to destroy: the African desire to form a United Africa with their own currency independent of the Money Changers.  Qaddafi had proposed this and was getting heavy support from the rest of Africa.  The Money Changers couldn’t afford to let freedom break out.

What better way to stop it than to foment a problem then rush in to help the “Rebels”.  That way they can be in control.  No Libyan alive today is likely to taste true freedom in their lifetime.

Report this

By Clay Claiborne, September 18, 2011 at 7:26 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

On September 5th, Chris Hedges wrote a very pessimistic article on Truthdig titled Libya: Here We Go Again. His title reflects the very common view among many on the left in the US that whatever happens in Libya, as with the rest of the world, it’s all about the United States. This is also the view held by CCDS and numerous other “left” groups that Libya is just like Iraq [from the US POV] and “we’ve been through this movie before.” In other words, same old stuff, nothing new to see here. Nothing to learn. Whatever the Libyans may have accomplished or are trying to accomplish is not nearly so important as what Hedges thinks the US government wants, and therefore will get, out of the Libyan revolution.

To understand why Hedges is promoting such a pessimistic outlook on the future of Libya, we must, for the moment, skip over the garbage that constitutes the body of his article and “cut to the chase” in the last paragraph where he calls for foreign “boots on the ground”, which we will review in full:

Continued at Why is Chris Hedges calling for “boots on the ground” in Libya?

Report this

By radson, September 12, 2011 at 5:33 pm Link to this comment

Die Daily:I understand your frustration ,the question is whether the American people can wake up from their
nonchalance and reclaim what America can be without the external influence of Assholes.

cheers

Report this

By upgradeyourlife, September 12, 2011 at 12:41 pm Link to this comment

one more thing: i tried to ignore your misleading allusions trying to equate libya to iraq, but i couldn’t let it go. for the umpteenth time, libya is not iraq!

don’t take it from me, listen to juan cole.


i’m surprised at you, mr. hedges, to make such superficial and fallacious comparisons. it’s a cheap, easy shot i’ve come to expect out of fellow bloggers, but not from you. you have more integrity than this. you must be frustrated to stoop so low.

Report this

By upgradeyourlife, September 12, 2011 at 7:40 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

though snippy and pessimistic in tone, the new yorker’s jon lee anderson also included this:

A woman walked around with a large framed black-and-white portrait of her late husband, an Army officer who had joined a military movement that had opposed Qaddafi and had been executed for his temerity in 1977. Flanked by her two grown daughters—who had been a year old and three years old, respectively, at the time of his death—she hugged her husband’s portrait with both arms and told his story. Smiling broadly and in a voice full of happy feeling, she said that he would have dearly loved to see this day come. She said, over and over, “Al hamdulillah,” which means, roughly, “Glory to God.”

instead of seeking to be prophetic in predicting failure (because it’s all about you) why don’t we hear more about what libyans suffered under gadafi? where are those stories? there is a dearth of libyan perspective.

Report this

By upgradeyourlife, September 12, 2011 at 6:57 am Link to this comment

on one hand, you characterize nato as a conquering force. not an accurate description since nato is not occupying the country.

on the other hand, you fault the TNC for not accepting UN troops in country. this is something the rebels have insisted on from the beginning. even though they called for nato intervention, rebels drew the line at having foreign boots on the ground. with their history of colonization, such antipathy to foreign (western) occupation shouldn’t come as a surprise.

you can’t have it both ways. you can’t object to nato intervention - and yet call for foreign occupation at the same time! that doesn’t make any sense.

the TNC, however, said they would consider the assistance from arab troops, such as from qatar, if it was offered.

apart from the incongruity of your argument, what good would UN troops do? they haven’t helped haiti. haitians are being raped by them instead. UN troops were stationed in the ivory coast but were widely panned for not doing anything to stem the violence.

Report this

By upgradeyourlife, September 12, 2011 at 6:21 am Link to this comment

if the rebels were irredeemably bloodthirsty, they would have murdered the gadafi sons they earlier captured. instead, they were put under house arrest. the sons later got away because of escape tunnels under their homes. oh, how brutish of the rebels to put the enemy under house arrest.

the rebels are made up of different factions. isn’t it bigoted to broad brush them all with the overgeneralization that characterizes them as being nothing but a bunch of savages? the volunteer forces are made up of ordinary, everyday people; such as students, teachers, shop keepers, engineers, etc. how can you suggest they’re all monsters?

Report this

By upgradeyourlife, September 12, 2011 at 6:03 am Link to this comment

first of all, this statement: “yesterday’s victims rapidly become today’s victimizers.”

isn’t this an argument to maintain the status quo? would you condemn libya (and every other country in the arab world) to live under dictatorship forever?

Report this
DieDaily's avatar

By DieDaily, September 11, 2011 at 12:22 am Link to this comment

radson, just because the US is under the yoke of a
bunch of crazed anglophiles (and has been since the
late 1800’s) doesn’t absolve us one iota of our
responsibility nor our culpability. We are almost
equally badly under the yoke of Israel, but it is WE
and not Israel that has the security counsel veto,
and it is WE not Israel that directly makes it all
possible. The money elite have every major
institution under control: the entire executive
branch, the courts, all regulatory bodies, the
military, and worst of all, the media. Not to mention
their incredibly tight control over and
interpenetration with the CIA. It’s the same
internationally, with the UN/Hague, NATO, IMF, World
Bank, etc.

However!: the people are waking up anyway, and
starting to take personal steps and personal
responsibility for all the crap that these very few
psychotic individuals do IN OUR NAME. You can blame
it on foreign powers all you like. The fact remains
that our nation has become a nation of genocidal
carpet-bombers and torturers. The fact that we’ve
done so “for God and/or Country” does not alleviate
the fact that we are indeed, now, the “Great Satan”,
it’s the very reason for it.

Report this

By radson, September 8, 2011 at 12:39 pm Link to this comment

Chris:When the hell are you going to recognize that the problem is not with America per se but with that
Little Island called England?That has mislead this Planet for centuries and is responsible for untold death and destruction for the greedy few ,that think that they own the place -something that’s called the ‘commons’ because the ‘haves ‘are actually the ‘have nots’.Hell these Global imposter’s can’t even feed themselves.


cheers

Report this

By radson, September 8, 2011 at 12:16 pm Link to this comment

DRbhelthi ,unfortunately the French named imposter is nothing more than the name suggests in French -with a slight modification - La Faillite ( Bankrupt).

cheers

Report this
drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, September 8, 2011 at 1:28 am Link to this comment

drb: The interesting spins by Lafayette are cunning and interesting, but only “spinned opinions.”  - Lafayette

Your response is supportive confirmation of my observation.

“I would not “spin information” about a person who gave up his life
(perhaps unknowingly) in desperation for his helplessness. Would you make make light of an American patriot who gave up his life such that his people could know freedom?”  Lafayette

You facility for spinning ideas is reflective.
“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.” - William Casey, CIA Director, from first staff meeting, 1981, as recorded by investigative journalist, Mrs. Mae Brussell.

“- gave his life” is a quasi-meaningless phrase in this day and time. One of the worst examples is US soldier, corporal Pat Tillman, who did NOT give his life. His life was taken by a burst of 3 rounds into his temple, within a 3 inch pattern.  Which, requires an expert at close range.  A mole within his own platoon, assigned to murder him.  A planned murder, designed by your leadership, to spin into propaganda, to support the falsified war on terror, during the watch of Generalissimo David Petraeus? Which murder thwarted Tillman´s intent to divest himself of the USARMY and publicly reveal the illegal, inhuman Mid-East activity by the USMILITARY. 

Such people as yourself, living in France, on USGOV salary, at the cost of American taxpayers, reminds me of the two thousand NAZI and family members who were fereted into the US via Operation Paper Clip, many of whom were provided stipends, all at the expense of American taxpayers. Family histories in Germany & the U.S., and passports for 2,000 NAZIs; falsified by moles within the USGOV in 1945-1952. Falsifying the birth and academic records for one Kenyan-born, CIA agent of British decent is comparatively nothing.

The last body-guard of Adolf Hitler, NAZI SS LTC Otto Skorzeny, revealed many secrets about his compadres, who double-crossed him, during his 52 years of secret but comfortable life in the U.S., via a death-bed confession. http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20070405.htm 

Are you double-crossing Americans and the U.S.A. in a similar manner ?

Report this
blogdog's avatar

By blogdog, September 7, 2011 at 11:51 pm Link to this comment

RE: “...there is justification in being uneasy about the future.”

agreed, particularly as the cross-hairs move to Syria - it’s proximity to Israel could
lead to global conflagration - let’s hope sensibility might prevail - Turkey is a key
player - let’s hope NATO doesn’t pressure them to spearhead the attack

Report this

By elisalouisa, September 7, 2011 at 5:17 pm Link to this comment

With a strong global military presence and weak Constituents, it is reasonable to assume that the Oligarchy cannot be stopped. Perhaps that is why Chris Hedges offers no solutions, there are none. Civil disobedience, protests and marches are all that is left. Turnouts are small at such events.  Were such happenings to really be a threat leaders might not hesitate to call a S.W.A.T. team in.
Will the power/elite succeed in their quest to control all the countries in the Middle East and then go on to win global control?  A year ago I would have said no. Now witnessing how Americans have lost interest in the endless wars and
realizing that demanding appropriate action from of our candidates is of no consequence (they are puppets serving the power/elite) there is justification in being uneasy about the future.

Report this

By JRuby, September 7, 2011 at 11:37 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Chris Hedges’s articles are always so intelligent, passionate, informative; he clearly was there, did that, saw it first-hand, often even knows the principals personally, always knows what he’s talking about. But they are, almost exclusively, treatises of despair and doom, anger and disappointment. He nails the perps and eloquently offers persuasive reasons, and the facts. BUT—- I keep reading, hoping that with his wealth of experience, knowledge, commitment, and rationality, he would start laying out what might WORK. What might be a good policy to adopt, given the realities of the past and present. He does advocate civil disobedience, and hints that it’s about all we’ve got left. And I see his point. But that seems to me more than slightly defeatist. Sure, civil disobedience, protests, marches, rallies—- but at the end, we need articulated policy programs. Both for the people “in charge” and the rest of us. For instance, were we wrong to go into Libya to prevent what was predicted to be a huge slaughter of civilians? Rwanda always jumps to mind when that perfectly rational line is followed. Once in, and now that Gadhafi has been deposed, what could we do to prevent a re-colonization as Mr. Hedges describes? What would be the productive, helpful, moral, human, sane way of giving aid and support to struggling people—- especially, as in Libya, Iraq, Egypt, Somalia, Afghanistan, etc., etc., to tribes and loyalists and groups who hate each other, but are stuck living together and having to somehow sort it out—- without always becoming (or acting out) the greedy, manipulative, stupid, insensitive, violent, disrespectful, self-serving entity America has become?? What would be a productive path to choose in Iraq? In Israel and Palestine? I want these brilliant, thoughtful, well-traveled, caring journalists to think beyond telling us how awful each situation is, and why. We need to know that, of course. But THEN WHAT??!! Naming the names and revealing the corruption and treachery and stupidity is necessary, but not enough. Take us further, please. Help us understand what specifically we must demand of candidates, and of those holding office. “Stop the war!” is easy. “These policies and actions are crazy!” is appropriate, over and over and over, and can be simply stated, chanted, written endlessly. But what should follow? What should follow?

Report this
blogdog's avatar

By blogdog, September 7, 2011 at 11:31 am Link to this comment

RE: ...CIA manipulates the world?

An old respected Russia scholar, when asked, “Do you think the CIA is in the post-USSR trying to ‘stir things up’?”, replied, “The CIA couldn’t stir their own coffee!” - agreed,  but they sure do make a mess… maybe that’s the only reason they’re still on the payroll.

Report this
Lafayette's avatar

By Lafayette, September 7, 2011 at 10:56 am Link to this comment

drb: The interesting spins by Lafayette are cunning and interesting, but only “spinned opinions.”

Well, THAT is certainly the pot calling the kettle black.

I would not “spin information” about a person who gave up his life (perhaps unknowingly) in desperation for his helplessness. Would you make make light of an American patriot who gave up his life such that his people could know freedom?

Besides, I have spent a lot of time selling in the “Mahgreb”, which is the French North Africa and I know the people well enough to believe what has happened.

Of course, if you want to “spin” your own theories from within the confines of the three-mile-limit, who can stop you?

Still, you are apparently like so many Americans who can’t see beyond that limit, suffering from a myopia of world-events that is uniquely American.

You actually think the CIA manipulates the world? How dull a machination that is. How Cold Warish. How Hollywoodian.

The world is actually far, far beyond that point. In fact, it is distancing the US by leaps and bounds.

C’est la vie ... get used to it.

Report this

By morris wise, September 7, 2011 at 9:44 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Most Libyans have become unmanageable and are no longer wanted in a peaceful
oil producing nation. Without government support they will relocate to
Algeria,Egypt,Tunisia, and Niger. The sooner the better.

Report this
blogdog's avatar

By blogdog, September 7, 2011 at 9:21 am Link to this comment

if one has to be lectured on it, I prefer my sot of an uncle to our resident fop, rings truer - nevertheless,  behind every JUST WAR is something more… e.g.

the tyrant from Österreich was nothing without the help of industrialists like Fritz Thyssen, who in turn was backed directly by New York-based Union Banking Corporation (UBC), presided over by GHW Bush’s father,  Prescott Bush, which continued until the company’s assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

Moreover,  “...the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, they lived mostly in the Bahamas, and he was the Governor there. He treasonously permitted Nazi U-boats to refuel there and be able to sink U.S. and British ships.  After all, the British royal family was tied to the Nazis. See: John L. Spivak’s book, “Secret Armies, The New Techniques of Nazi Warfare” [Starling Press, N.Y. N.Y., 1939], pages 17-30.”

http://www.rense.com/politics5/secrets.htm

PS: oligarchs are our common enemy, fussing over useful fools like Rick Perry is an annoying distraction -  once the GOP circus wraps, expect the Deus Ex Machina to descend and lead them all to the promised land - none other than the Victor or Mesopotamia, Generalissimo David Howell Petraeus

Report this
drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, September 7, 2011 at 8:37 am Link to this comment

“Whenever will you finish with your Tired Nonsense?”  Lafayette

The information I provide, excepting my expressed opinions, is supported by documentation. The interesting spins by Lafayette are cunning and interesting, but only “spinned opinions.”

As long as shills continue to try to suppress the facts, and spin them beyond recognition, I (we) will not finish. Have you noticed that not all C.I.A. agents are offspring of WWII NAZI types, and that whistle-blowers have increased?

Does the USTreasury printshop in France still spit out 50 dollar bills? Or has Obama-Bernanke switched it to the infamous 100 dollar bills that fill the briefcases handed out by the C.I.A.?

Report this
David J. Cyr's avatar

By David J. Cyr, September 7, 2011 at 7:38 am Link to this comment

QUOTE, of an avatar being a painting of a flatulent French fop:

“It was a Just War. And had they not fought and died to win it. We’d all be speaking excellent High German in Europe.”
__________________

In the Second World War between fascists the tired old unimaginative empires collapsed and the most innovative, far stronger and more sophisticated in its ruthlessness — the most highly evolved fascist state — was crushingly victorious. 66 years on now, there’s been no end to its performing its victory dance.

Now Germans speak better English than Americans do.

A “Just War” is a war just seen from the point of view of those who’ve profited from it.

http://www.chenangogreens.org

Report this

By John Poole, September 7, 2011 at 6:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

A question. I vaguely remember a futurist panel right about 9/11 where one
contributor said in twenty years bin Laden would be running Saudi Arabia. It won’t
be Osama bin Laden of course but as one poster noted House of Saud may be on
borrowed time now. Was it just a rumor that Bush facilitated the bin Laden family’s
safe passage out of the US right after the attack?  If true then speculation about this
empire’s operations then hoping that truth prevails will have to wait a few thousand
years.

Report this
sallysense's avatar

By sallysense, September 7, 2011 at 5:44 am Link to this comment

(truth won’t do disservice to one man by speaking it about others…
but it only takes using illusion to make it appear like it does)...

Report this
Lafayette's avatar

By Lafayette, September 7, 2011 at 3:02 am Link to this comment

JUST THE FACTS, MAN

drb: Whistle-Blowers, former assets of the C.I.A., have clarified thoroughly that CIA/MOSSAD/operatives was behind all the alleged “conglagration”

You are doing a diservice to Mohamed Bouazizi who, in a dispute with police over a vending-cart permit withheld, which was the sole source of his family’s revenue, immolated himself in protest.

As the piece linked says, his act “catalyzed” the Spring Revolution in Tunisia, which has spread throughout North Africa and the Middle-east itself.

Whenever will you finish with your Tired Nonsense?

Report this
drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, September 7, 2011 at 2:34 am Link to this comment

“Bin Laden and his cronies are virulent whackos. ”  Lafayette

The degree of which virulence was determined by the amount of C.I.A. disinformation that was/is broadcast.  All such “virulents” bought with USTax dollars via the hands of the GHWBushSr entourage.  Which entourage continues (thus far) to protect the “Saudi” family.  However, their day is approaching. 

“All it took was a spark in Tunisia and the conflagration has spread across the Middle East. It was about time.”  Lafayette.

Whistle-Blowers, former assets of the C.I.A., have clarified thoroughly that CIA/MOSSAD/operatives was behind all the alleged “conglagration”.  John Strockwell does a very decent job of explaining the history. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9VxnCBD9W4

Susan Lindauer explained the CIA destruction of the PAA 747 over Lockerbie, erasing the C.I.A. disinformation against Muammar Kadaffi or Gadhafi.  How many nations has Gadhafi attacked, vs. how many has the GHWBushSr entourage attacked? 

Weapons of mass destruction in IRAQ?
“Americans will believe anything we tell them - - . . . ”

Report this
Lafayette's avatar

By Lafayette, September 7, 2011 at 2:21 am Link to this comment

bd: who could blame him after what he’d been through with the 101st Airborn from Normandy till the bitter-end

Yes, but that IS the point. I have an American uncle buried in the north of France who “didn’t make it out”.

They fought and died to overthrow a tyrant. It was a Just War. And had they not fought and died to win it. We’d all be speaking excellent High German in Europe.

We’ve been sidetracked by the Texas Leadhead into an Unjust War - in revenge for Hussien’s attempt on his father’s life on a visit to Kuwait. Why should our people die for such an infamous reason?

For the oil? Puleez. The oil contracts are going to everybody including the Russians who had nothing to do with overthrowing Hussien.

But Libya was a popular uprising. It was and remains a Just War. America can be proud of its “limited participation”. France can be proud of its lead in convincing the UN and NATO to support the cause of liberation.

Report this
blogdog's avatar

By blogdog, September 7, 2011 at 12:11 am Link to this comment

as a long-dead (RIP) uncle, who drank himself into oblivion (who could blame him
after what he’d been through with the 101st Airborn from Normandy till the bitter
end) put it: “there’s always been war and there’ll always be war”

my axe? why so bloody many? George Carlin says it better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlxuw0gHGqI&feature=related

Report this
Lafayette's avatar

By Lafayette, September 6, 2011 at 11:52 pm Link to this comment

A JUST WAR

bd: Abdel Hakim Belhadj’s “...axe to grind re Gaddafi…” is why NATO is now bombing the citizens of Sirte

And your “axe to grind” is which one?

Blind hatred, unable to distinguish a Good War from a Bad War and therefore fulminate against All Wars.

Lotsa Luck on that one. Amongst mankind are some who must dominate at all costs and thus deprive their fellow citizens of democracy. All efforts against such tyrants are Just Wars.

AND AMERICA?

This same fundamentalism by which alternative opinion must not be tolerated also exists within our nation - and is a greater danger than those abroad. They cloke themselves in religion, with a bible in their hand, prepared to do “God’s Will” at the helm of government - for the greater benefit of mankind.

How is that any different from a Taliban, I ask. They both interpret religious text to suit their own pathetic ends.

POST SCRIPTUM

And here we have yet another such nutter, deriving from political Nut-Factory of the Great State of Taxless. Perry must not prevail.

Report this

By John Poole, September 6, 2011 at 6:33 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I was in Libya in June of 2010 (my son was ARSO at the Tripoli embassy)  Met
ambassador Cretz and got a feel for the country. Saw Tom Ridge pitching his
“defense operations” while eating near the Marcus Aurelius Arch.  My daughter in
law recently gave an interview via NPR’s outlet for Nebraska about her two years
there.  I found the country fascinating and the people friendly. The USA has
learned to deal with erratic and disturbed despots while hoping to sway more
reasonable others - in waiting- to think differently once that despot folds. That’s
pretty much impossible now. The USA just seems to enjoy “busting up” whole
regions. Ah, the hubris of empire.

Report this
blogdog's avatar

By blogdog, September 6, 2011 at 4:31 pm Link to this comment

right, all clear: Abdel Hakim Belhadj’s “...axe to grind re Gaddafi…” is why NATO
is now bombing the citizens of Sirte

Besieging And Terror Bombing Sirte

By Stephen Lendman
9-2-11
from http://www.rense.com/general94/beic.htm

Before it ends (besides what was done to Tripoli and other Libyan cities), Sirte
may become another of history’s most infamous terror bombing victims.

—Guernica - 1937;
—the London Blitz - 1940 - 41;
—Dresden - 1945;
—Tokyo - 1945;
—Hiroshima and Nagasaki - 1945;
—North Korea - 1950 - 53;
—Southeast Asia - 1964 - 73;
—Iraq - 1991 to the present;
—Serbia/Kosovo - 1999;
—Afghanistan - 2001 to the present;
—Lebanon - 1982 and 2006; and
—Gaza - 2008 - 09.

Report this

By diamond, September 6, 2011 at 3:58 pm Link to this comment

“According to the London Daily Telegraph.”

This is where you lost me. I don’t read the papers and I don’t believe anything in them either. But I do know it is an historical fact that Gaddafi hanged student dissidents from lamp posts and televised their deaths nationally - and he might be regretting that right about now since his own neck may be in a noose sometime soon. The leader of the anti-Gaddafi military forces was ‘rendered’ by MI6 and held for six years of torture and abuse. I’m sure he has no axe to grind re Gaddafi. He, he. He has only said that what happened to him was ‘illegal’ and he wants an apology from MI6. I’ve got a much better idea. Close the CIA and MI6 down and start again.  They’re no use to dog or man. The only interests they serve are those of the arms corporations and various Fascist dictators around the globe. And they use our tax money to do it.

Report this
blogdog's avatar

By blogdog, September 6, 2011 at 3:55 pm Link to this comment

1. transparently obvious, most recent versions of the so-called ‘color revolution’ phenomenon, led by a top dog from the Bin Laden, Terror-for- Hire, CIA/MI6/MOSSAD, pool of international Jihadists, held up as an irrepressible indigenous movement

2. cited is a foundation-funded, useful tool, clearly placed as a countervailing so-called left/lib/prog perspective to the Limbaugh/Larsen/Beck school of useful fools, the purpose of which is to keep under classes fighting amongst themselves, and perpetually ignorant of the oligarchs pulling the strings - indeed, cited as a ‘force of nature’ no less

3. and finally a trite, weakly constructed, maudlin, British pop song

Bloody Hell! Having fun, yet?

Report this
Lafayette's avatar

By Lafayette, September 6, 2011 at 2:13 pm Link to this comment

I propose this Libyan uprising is part of the Arab Spring. And the Arab Spring is a manifestation of people implementing a new consciousness

True enough.

These people have suffered enough from a status quo largely set up by the allies after WW2 and maintained throughout the Cold War. The dictatorial families in place have been there for decades.

Bin Laden and his cronies are virulent whackos. The very large part of Muslims are a deeply religious people just trying to make living like anybody else.

And they have forgone the basic human right to decide their own destiny by means of a democracy. The younger ones have traveled and seen Western style democracies first hand. They could not understand why, in their own country, they could not have the same.

All it took was a spark in Tunisia and the conflagration has spread across the Middle East. It was about time.

MY POINT

As regards fundamentalism, we can find just as pernicious in our own society. We should be more concerned about them than those abroad.

Report this
EmileZ's avatar

By EmileZ, September 6, 2011 at 1:54 pm Link to this comment

You fuck around with Amy Goodman and you are fucking with the forces of nature.

At least try to be polite.

Report this
D.R. Zing's avatar

By D.R. Zing, September 6, 2011 at 1:47 pm Link to this comment

The article and the comments bring this light-hearted
little ditty to mind:


History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies the same defeats
Keep your finger on important issues
With crocodile tears and a pocketful of tissues
I’m just the oily slick
On the windup world of the nervous tick
In a very fashionable hovel

I hang around dying to be tortured
You’ll never be alone in the bone orchard
This battle with the bottle is nothing so novel

So in this almost empty gin palace
Through a two-way looking glass
You see your Alice

You know she has no sense
For all your jealousy
In a sense she still smiles very sweetly

Charged with insults and flattery
Her body moves with malice
Do you have to be so cruel to be callous

And now you find you fit this identikit completely
You say you have no secrets
And then leave discreetly

I might make it California’s fault
Be locked in Geneva’s deepest vault
Just like the canals of Mars and the great barrier reef
I come to you beyond belief

My hands were clammy and cunning
She’s been suitably stunning
But I know there’s not a hope in Hades
All the laddies cat call and wolf whistle
So-called gentlemen and ladies
Dog fight like rose and thistle

I’ve got a feeling
I’m going to get a lot of grief
Once this seemed so appealing
Now I am beyond belief

—Elvis Costello “Beyond Belief”

Report this
EmileZ's avatar

By EmileZ, September 6, 2011 at 1:26 pm Link to this comment

@ Michael Calvan R.N.

Glenn Greenwald: Could Obama Be Impeached for Waging War in Libya Without Approval of Congress?

The New York Times recently broke the story that President Obama rejected the views of top administration lawyers when he decided he had the legal authority to continue U.S. military participation in the war in Libya without congressional authorization. Obama continues to face congressional opposition to the ongoing Libya attack. Republican House Speaker John Boehner has called on the White House to further clarify the legal basis for the war in Libya or face a cutoff of war funds. Last week, a bipartisan group of lawmakers filed a lawsuit accusing President Obama of violating the War Powers Act of 1973. To examine the legal dimensions of U.S. military intervention, we speak with Glenn Greenwald, a constitutional law attorney and political and legal blogger for Salon.com. “The idea that presidents can start wars on their own, without any congressional authorization, violates not just the law but the Constitution,” Greenwald said. “In theory, when the president violates the law and the Constitution, that’s an impeachable offense. At the same time, we’ve set a very low standard for our tolerance of rampant presidential law breaking.”

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/6/20/glenn_greenwald_could_obama_be_impeached

Report this
EmileZ's avatar

By EmileZ, September 6, 2011 at 1:24 pm Link to this comment

@ Michael Calvan R.N.

“On Wednesday, a bipartisan group of 10 members of Congress sued President Obama for violating the War Powers Act of 1973 by failing to obtain congressional approval for military operations in Libya longer than 60 days. We host a debate between Democratic Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio, one of the Congress members suing President Obama, and Robert Turner, who worked as an attorney in the Reagan White House and is a longtime critic of the War Powers Act. “President Obama’s position is absolutely clear: we are not engaged in war in Libya, and thus, if the War Powers Resolution were constitutional, it still would not apply,” Turner says. “I ask you, if another country sent 2,000 planes over the United States, and some of those missions dropped bombs on us, would that be an act of war against the United States?” says Kucinich. “That’s exactly what we’ve done in Libya.”

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/6/16/is_us_attack_on_libya_legal

Report this
EmileZ's avatar

By EmileZ, September 6, 2011 at 12:42 pm Link to this comment

@ Michael Calvan R.N.

I have a hard time believing that firedoglake doesn’t hate your guts right now.

Just a thought.

Report this
blogdog's avatar

By blogdog, September 6, 2011 at 12:41 pm Link to this comment

Couldn’t be that our Francophile friend, really thinks Sarkozy is a ‘humanitarian’,
c’est possible?

Freudian slip “...more bombastic with each…”? Perhaps at the mind’s periphery
dwells the fact that, NATO becomes literally “...more bombastic with each…” new
intervention, in this case stretching its so-called UN ‘mandate’ beyond any legal
justification.

Q: Given the fact that civilians have been intentionally targeted and casualties are significant…

why isn’t Hedges and others of his stature calling for charges of war crimes
against all top NATO officials and affiliate heads of state?

Report this
EmileZ's avatar

By EmileZ, September 6, 2011 at 12:27 pm Link to this comment

Sorry for the misspelling.

Cynthia McKinney.

Post a link to your petition or SOMETHING!!!

Mr. Michael Calvan R.N.

Report this

By Michael Cavlan RN, September 6, 2011 at 12:26 pm Link to this comment

Truedigger3

At Firedoglake there is a term used there. It called Veal Pen politics.

As in those “progressive” folks who cry for progressives to stay in the Veal Pen that has become the Democratic Party.

To help Obaaaaaaama.

Glad to see that others are getting it. Outing Amy Goodman for what she is. No wonder she gets regular “ink” at Truthdig. She fits in quite well with Dionne, Robinson and the rest.

Veal Pen politics indeed.

Come on and visit the lake, firedoglake that it.

It is beautiful there.

Report this
EmileZ's avatar

By EmileZ, September 6, 2011 at 12:23 pm Link to this comment

@ truedigger3

what on earth leads you to belive Amy Goodman is behind this???

@ Michael Calvan R.N.
please be reasonable. If you have nothing other than your interpretation of what Cythia McKinney says, believes etc, you have nothing.

Report this

By truedigger3, September 6, 2011 at 12:08 pm Link to this comment

EmileZ,

Don’t you have another better picture of you, instead of that ugly repulsive picture!!??
Your beloved Amy Goodman has exposed herself and that is not a surprise at all. Many of the so called progressives, never hated a “humanitarian” war to save peoples from “tyrants” even when it resulted in completely destroying the infrastructure leaving the “liberated” people without clean water, sewage treatment plants, no electricity and crippled hospitals, looted and destroyed government departmnets and looted museums, food shortages and destroyed heritage. And oh yeah, tens of thousands of the “liberated” people have been killed and maimed and their, oil,  natural resources and public enterprises have been “privatized” and parceled out among the “liberators” while the “liberated” people deals with the death squads of the newly installed, excuse me, “elected” tyrant.

Report this

By Michael Cavlan RN, September 6, 2011 at 11:56 am Link to this comment

EmileZ

You want to understand my position? Really?

Then read what I post. I have laid it out quite clearly.

Amy Goodman does indeed censor views. Doing the very thing that she accuses the corporate media of doing.

It really is that simple and direct. As I stated, I am not alone in this political position. There is a petition circulating out there, that makes this point. I know because I signed it.

Her Libya coverage has made it obvious.

Report this
Alan Lunn's avatar

By Alan Lunn, September 6, 2011 at 11:46 am Link to this comment

What used to be called the military-industrial
complex is now the military-industrial-government
complex, isn’t it? It’s a merger and then it’s like a
monopoly that is trying to reign as Superpower. The
USA is morphing into something other than what it
was, with no clear picture of who the ultimate
reigning power will be, we now have an amalgam of
monopolies jockeying for position in the final
managed democracy sweepstakes.

So you join one of the branches of the service now in
hopes of gaining education and a career, then you are
sent off to one of these “democratization” wars and
told you are doing it for “liberty” or to “protect”
the republic. Meanwhile, you are serving in a branch
of the military that has no funding because the
transnationals and banksters are busy extracting
money from America like there is no tomorrow and then
waving flags of patriotism.

The result, here in the states, is that we are left
with a vacuum of meaning, other than the empty
rhetoric spilling from a president’s or a pundit’s
mouth. Bottom line: Our system is now a corporatist-
run pseudo-democracy that is turning into some kind
of aristocracy. It demands a complete makeover, not
an Ayn Rand shift to total deregulation and no taxes.
We have to separate money from politics. And we have
to start the process NOW.

Report this

By Gittins, September 6, 2011 at 11:38 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

You meant to type “compliant” not “complaint” in your penultimate paragraph.

Report this

By AMeshiea, September 6, 2011 at 11:33 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Michael Cavlan RN,

“her flat out refusal to allow anyone on her show that
counters the NATO line (like Cynthia McKinnney who
was in Libya during the start of the NATO bombing)”

Cynthia is a flat out joke. Her bedfellows like Lewis
Farakhan where paid shills of GFhaddafi. She has no
clue and so completely out of her element that
Goodman knows she will only bring the tenor of her
show down by bringing on that nut.

That Cynthia and
some drones on this site would think that Ghaddafi
was good for Libya, shows she has bought the Mathaba
propoganda. That Anti-Imperialists are so eager to
buy the lies that the “Green” revolution spouts, is
an emabarressment to the Left.

Report this

By gregorylkruse, September 6, 2011 at 11:12 am Link to this comment

It’s true, there will be blood, and there is no Dr. Who to appear out of nowhere to straighten things out for us.  Homicide has become an acceptable method for solving the “tough problems” the wingers (Obama included) often talk about.  It’s only a short walk from here to genocide as the population of Earth increases and the CO2 keeps rising.  How many will have to die to reach equillibrium?  How many servants will each elite family need, and how many children should the servants be allowed to have?  These will be the questions of the future when morality is a thing of the past.

Report this
EmileZ's avatar

By EmileZ, September 6, 2011 at 10:08 am Link to this comment

@ Michael Calvan R.N.

Believe it or not I would like to understand your point of view.

When you write things like “Or did I miss the video footage (readily available) of the civilians killed by NATO or indeed the well spoken and articulate spokesperson denouncing the slaughter of civilians by NATO?”

Please provide links.

As far as my sexuality is concerned…. what is with “Emily” and “big girl panties”???

Where did all that come from???

Don’t be an asshole, or if you want to be an asshole go right ahead, but…

Report this

By Michael Cavlan RN, September 6, 2011 at 10:00 am Link to this comment

@Emile

Attempting to use your sexuality to make a point is sad and pathetic. Won’t work either.

I checked out the Democracy Now clips and they in fact reinforce my political position.

Or did I miss the video footage (readily available) of the civilians killed by NATO or indeed the well spoken and articulate spokesperson denouncing the slaughter of civilians by NATO?

Sorry but your hero has been exposed. She can start to regain her credibility. There is a petition that is out there challenging her on this very point.

No “progressive” apologists for the rotten system will support it. In fact this has gotten so bad that good old Thom Hartmann has withdrawn his support of the upcoming
October 2011 event.

We progressives really should thank president Obama. He has done a beautiful job of exposing all the apologists and shills. Even as his poll numbers hang in the low 30% range. Just about as low as Bush when he was leaving office.

IMPEACH George W Obama

What a lovely idea for a bumper sticker.

Report this
EmileZ's avatar

By EmileZ, September 6, 2011 at 9:19 am Link to this comment

@ Michael Calvan R.N.

Did I say bug??? I meant beg…

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/8/23/as_fighting_continues_in_tripoli_a


I dunno, perhaps you might post a link to the story you claim Democracy Now “refused” or refuses to cover.

I admit there has not been any DN coverage on the ground since Anjali Kamat’s excellent piece here…

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/3/17/libyan_rebels_maintain_benghazi_media_center

Anyhow I beg you, flesh out your censorship accusations if at all possible.

Report this

By Michael Cavlan RN, September 6, 2011 at 8:41 am Link to this comment

@Emily

I know you are going to find this difficult to understand but not everything in life is personal. It is not all about you and how you were slighted. It is not about me and my personal feelings.

My issue with Amy Goodman is deeply political. She censors views, progressive views. The story in Libya and her flat out refusal to allow anyone on her show that counters the NATO line (like Cynthia McKinnney who was in Libya during the start of the NATO bombing) is just the latest example.

She has appeared on FAIR (Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting) sponsored events and talked about how the corporate media should not censor views. That their job should be to inform the public in what is happening. Which they do not annd she calls them on it.

Then she does the very same damned thing that she accuses the corporate media of doing.

So get your big girl panties on and deal with the political dimensions of this discussion.

It ain’t about you and your feelings. Or mine.

Report this

By Spike3, September 6, 2011 at 8:37 am Link to this comment

So it turns out that Qaddafi gave up on acquiring WMDs because he was infatuated with Condaleeza Rice and we thought it was diplomacy——maybe that BJ helped!  Could Hilary have done that?!

Report this

By balkas, September 6, 2011 at 8:22 am Link to this comment

funni things gaddafi and mubarak did. big G. wldn’t cry uncle and big M. actually
swore allegiance to the uncle, and both went dwn!!

has big O come up with a new doctrine? one about diktators? which may go
smwhat like this: it’s ok to sacrifice even obedient diktators, let alone
disobedient ones; provided that such sacrifices help world supremacists [headed
by ones in u.s] obtain the planet and destroy all vestiges of equality and basic
human rights.

does the skin color of diktators play any role in sacrificing diktators on the altar
of personal [and to some degree, cult] supremacism?

for obtain an answer to that question i am going to pray to goddevil. i often do,
and the IT makes me much wiser, funnier, richer, nicer looking, peaceful, etcetc.

remember please that there is no god w.o. the devil and vice versa. for how cld
have god manufactured obama, bush, hitler [a ‘jew’] et al all by itself and with the
devil having veto powers in all its doings? tnx

Report this
David J. Cyr's avatar

By David J. Cyr, September 6, 2011 at 6:57 am Link to this comment

QUOTE, Warren Metzler:

Part of this new consciousness is to rise above tribalism
___________________

Having raised their consciousness, the intelligent Boomer liberals decided that it was perfectly acceptable for their tribe to do the unconscionable… because “progressives” could surely do it so much better than ignorant “conservatives” would.

Libyan Rebels Form Central Bank (on 03/19/11):

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/03/libyan-rebels-form-central-bank.html

Since “progressives” are proudly defending their Shock Doctrine bombing of Libya, on the grounds that they have declared Gadhafi to be insane, why aren’t they bombing their corporate party Republican partners’ conventions… or their own Republican dependent Democrat conventions?

Republicans insanely argue that war is always the answer.

Democrats ensure that the insanity of war will be the only answer.

http://www.chenangogreens.org

Report this
sallysense's avatar

By sallysense, September 6, 2011 at 6:55 am Link to this comment

(On a side note, pertaining to some U.S. potential business interests in Libya last year.)

*Jan 20, 2010:  U.S. State Dept Ambassador Gene Cretz meeting with Libyan Head of Facitilites and Infrastructure Matuq Mohammed Matuq.

(Source: Wikileaks cable ‘Libyan Head Of Facilities And Infrastructure Welcomes U.S. Business’; original cable date Jan 20, 2010)

... U.S. technology for pumping fresh water from oil fileds could help Libya. 

... Libya interested in cooperating with U.S. on this due to desert environment conditions etc.

... Cretz highlights the U.S. - Libya relations moving forward in areas such as military cooperation and consular operations

... Libya interested in U.S. cooperation regarding agriculture, water, education and construction.

... Cretz noted that the upcoming U.S. Trade Mission to Libya, Feb. 20 - 23 2010, would include high level U.S. officials from the Dept. of Commerce, and many representatives of Fortune 500 companies.

*Feb 23, 2010: Head of Libya’s Housing and Infrastructure Board Mohamed Abujela al-Mabruk tells U.S. Ambassador about Libya’s 2008 projected investment.

(Source: Wikileaks cable ‘Half of Libya’s Housing and Infrastructure Budget Still Up For Grabs’; original cable date Feb. 23, 2010.)

... U.S. and Libyan officials meet before the Trade Mission.

... Half of Libya’s 2008 projected investment construction projects of $62 billion Libyan dollars ($47 billion USD), had already been awarded mostly to China and Turkey. 

... The other half still up for grabs.  (Approx another $10 billion Libyan dollars expected to be added in next few years.)

... For foreign company ventures with Libya, Libya gives preference to joint ventures, where no more than 65% share goes to foreign partner, and at least 35% share goes to Libyan partner.

*Feb 20 - 23, 2010: Various committees of U.S. and Business and Libyan representatives held meetings at U.S. Trade Mission to Libya in Tripoli.

(Source: Nicole Lambert-Hale, Tradeology’s official blog of the International Trade Administration, (which is part of the Dept. of Commerce),  Feb. 24, 2010. Also of interest in the source is the mindset of the blogger’s post, which really seems to protray and relay part of the U.S. global business caste system in action.)

... U.S. hospital builders and hi-tech health care companies were brought in to meet with Libyan Minister of Health.

... U.S. military and defense contractors were brought in to meet with Libyan Minister of Public Security.

... U.S. construction companies were brought in to meet with Libyan Minister of Housing and Utility projects.

... And more etc., over 150 various meetings were set up.

Report this
EmileZ's avatar

By EmileZ, September 6, 2011 at 6:25 am Link to this comment

@ Michael Calvan R.N.

I think you should petition Chris Hedges to interview you for a column. If he does not comply you should lump him in with Juan Cole and Eugene Robinson et al.

You know, the esteemed Mr. Hedges once interviewed Andrew Bacevitch who holds many views (or at least has said many things on record) which I think you would find quite stupid and offensive (I do).

I think your personal issues involving Keith Ellison may be clouding your judgement.

Personally, I am more often than not disappointed with the Democracy Now musical selections.

Sometimes I think they interview fools such as this one (link below) with Dr. Michio Kaku regarding the Fukushima meltdowns, but by and large the Democracy Now coverage on the topic was without peer.


http://www.democracynow.org/2011/4/13/expert_despite_japanese_govt_claims_of

Face it… Democracy Now is a good thing, maybe even as good as Firedoglake, and you have a personal grudge because you feel they did not put you on their show.

Frown.

Report this
sallysense's avatar

By sallysense, September 6, 2011 at 6:15 am Link to this comment

Here’s some info too:

Top rebel military leaders in the 2011 anti-Gadhafi revolt, have long-term relations with the CIA, and the U.S. government knows them well.

One rebel leader is Khalifa Hefta (or Haftar/Hifter when transliterated with corresponding letters from another alphabet), who was appointed chief rebel commander on March 17 2010, and had worked with the CIA for a long-time.

Hefta had been living in suburban Virginia for the past 20 years, within 5 miles of CIA headquarters in Langley Virginia, outside of Washington D.C., with no visible means of financial support.

*(Sources for above: Patrick Martin “Mounting evidence of CIA ties to Libyan rebels” April 4, 2011; and “American media silent on CIA ties to Libya rebel commander” March 30 2011.  Martin is a Canadian journalist and veteran Middle East correspondent ; Chris Adams “Libyan rebel leader spent much of past 20 years in suburban Virginia” March 26 2011, ‘Mcclatchy Newspapers’.)

Khalifa Hefta/Haftar, who backed Gadhafi’s 1969 coup takeover of Libya, turned against Gadhafi and became his foe in 1987.

He commanded an anti-Gadhafi army that was in exile outside of Libya.

Hefta was the commander-in-exile of the Libyan National Army (LNA), which is the armed branch of the National Front for the Salvation of Libya (NFSL), which is an exiled opposition group.

Reuters was told on March 24, 2011 that Hefta would head the rebel army.  Reuters asked for an interview with Hefta but could not get in contact with him.  Reuters also said that the CIA declined to comment.

*(Sources for above: Reuters Africa, April 1, 2011; Derek Henry Flood, editor of Jamestown’s Militant Leadership Monitor publication.)

The CIA and also Saudi Arabia have supported the The National Front for the Salvation of Libya (NSFL).

*(Sources for the above: Richard Keeble “The Secret War Against Libya”; Dirk Vandewalle “A History of Modern Libya”; Bob Woodward “Veil: The secret wars of the CIA”; and John Jacob Nutter “The CIA’s black opts”.

Among others rebels well known to the CIA, are three Libyan rebels who are fighting on the rebel side that’s being supported by the U.S.  These three also fought on the same side with Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan.

*(Sources for the above: Patrick Martin “Mounting evidence of CIA ties to Libyan rebels” April 4, 2011;  Charles Levinson “Ex-Mujahedeen Help Lead Libyan Rebels”, April 2, 2011, ‘The Wall Street Journal’.)

Report this
drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, September 6, 2011 at 4:29 am Link to this comment

One of several nurses from the Ukraine, Oksana Balinskaya, provides an insider view of Gadhafi and extended family:
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/09/03/ukraine.
gadhafi.nurse/index.html

Excerpted: “Her job now lost to Libya’s civil war, she pitied the
nation. ´If it were not for Gadhafi, who else would have built it? she said. It was he who constructed it. He has transferred Libyans from camelbacks into cars.´ “

Susan Lindauer, CIA Whistle-Blower, explained in detail that the C.I.A. destroyed the PAA 747 over Lockerbie, assassinating two special agents, returning to the U.S. with info about the drug-running of USGOV officials in the Beka Valley. Muammar Kaddafi or Gadhafi was not involved. His pay-out of millions to remaining family members of those murdered was a benevolent, humanitarian act. All disinformation against him continues to be generated by the NAZI element of the C.I.A., paid shills and ignorant followers.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, September 6, 2011 at 3:35 am Link to this comment

truedigger3, September 5 at 3:21 pm Link to this comment

Inherit the Wind is an ardent Zionist to boot. He loves nothing more than hearing about Arabs being killed and an Arab country being destroyed. He is full of shit and he is a grade A bullshit artist.
**************

That is a vicious lie and you are either too dishonest to admit it or just too stupid to know it.

Where have you EVER seen me take joy in people being killed? 

But, being a decent human being, unlike you, I am relieved when a people rises up and overthrows a cruel and insane dictator, as Chris Hedges himself describes Qaddaffi in this article.

Or in your reduced mental capacity did you miss the part where Hedges explicitly calls Qaddaffi “insane”?  It’s right there in the 2nd paragraph? Or didn’t you get that far?

Report this
RayLan's avatar

By RayLan, September 6, 2011 at 3:34 am Link to this comment

“Once the Libyans realize what the Iraqis and Afghans have bitterly discovered—that we have no interest in democracy, that our primary goal is appropriating their natural resources as cheaply as possible and that we will sacrifice large numbers of people to maintain our divine right to the world’s diminishing supply of fossil fuel”
This stark ugly truth shatters all flag-waving right wing illusions about the great American exceptionalism. The toxic lie that has enlisted citizens into an unconscious complicity.

Report this

By WarrenMetzler, September 6, 2011 at 3:23 am Link to this comment

I am glad that Hedges has been so explicit in his prediction, because if it turns
out a free enterprise secular democracy arises from this, then finally he will
have to recognize his socialist (corporations run the world) world view has
significant errors in it.

I propose this Libyan uprising is part of the Arab Spring. And the Arab Spring is
a manifestation of people implementing a new consciousness that has been
present in humans since the mid-1960’‘s. A consciousness (world view, map
for life, attitude, mind-set, etc.) that inwardly informs each person she can be
optimal in every area of her life: be autonomous, be true to one’s inner
experience at all times; in work repeatedly experience being productive, skilled,
creative, and contributing to one’s clients; in social encounters repeatedly
experience intimacy (richness and fullness), love (deeply value the other), and
dynamic community (all the members repeatedly empower each other); realize
one has a spiritual nature, and find out how to live in accord with it.

So none of the actions that took place in the past are reasonable evidence as to
what actions will now occur. Part of this new consciousness is to rise above
tribalism, so it is possible all the old tribal identifications will be minor from
now on.

Report this
Lafayette's avatar

By Lafayette, September 6, 2011 at 2:48 am Link to this comment

This journalist get more bombastic with each piece.

What a shame ... for a professional journalist. Pandering to the Looney Left with wildly exaggerated claims and insinuations.

This sort of journalism is no better than that from the Rabid Right.

Report this

By C.Curtis.Dillon, September 6, 2011 at 1:56 am Link to this comment

I would comment but I fear cpb will anoint me with the troll of the month award in advance for the month of October. Oh ... woe is me!!!!

Report this

By SteveL, September 5, 2011 at 9:17 pm Link to this comment

The U.S. concerned with the outcome of the Libya revolt?  Today there are
candidates with I.Q.s that barely reach room temperature and are referred too as
frontrunners.  It’s a safe bet the outcome in Libya will be a lot better than the
outcome of the next U.S. election.

Report this

By Todd Turnipseed, September 5, 2011 at 8:11 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

this guy can write

Report this
caped amigo's avatar

By caped amigo, September 5, 2011 at 7:27 pm Link to this comment

The Populace is so naive. They don’t see the US thirst for unilateral world
dominance, and that it is all about the oil. The rest is hypocrisy.

Report this

By Michael Cavlan RN, September 5, 2011 at 6:39 pm Link to this comment

REGIME CHANGE STILL BELONGS AT HOME

Report this

By truedigger3, September 5, 2011 at 6:39 pm Link to this comment

Re: By NABNYC, September 5 at 5:23 pm

NABNYC wrote:

“As far as “humanitarian” intervention:  there might be a rare circumstance in which it would make sense, but it cannot be done by the U.S. government or with our military or with taxpayer dollars.  It should be restricted to people making donations to the U.N., for example, or other NGOs.”
—————————————————-

NANBYC,

Once you allowed the so called “humanitarian intervention”, you are opening the gate for all kind shenanigans and bullshitting.
The U.N. now is puppet to the USA. The people who would be donating could be oil companies and corporations hungry for raw materials!! Most of the NGO are of suspicious backing and motives!!
Did you ask yourself why always humanitarian intervetion against “tyrants”, always happen to countries of rich resources or strategic location.
Always after the so called “humanitarian intervention”, the “liberated” country ends up with its infrastructure completely destroyed and with tens of thousands of its people,  mostly civilians, killed and with internal strife and death squads every where and with a new tyrant in charge. But hey, they are “liberated” now and the “tyrant” is gone!!!.

Report this
macattack's avatar

By macattack, September 5, 2011 at 6:23 pm Link to this comment

It makes me kind of sick that we use the ‘for the
people’ excuse to get involved in such situations. It’s
just never about them, which is quite sad, but we really
need to stop using that excuse. We sound stupid and it’s
tiresome.
I would imagine we’ll wind up paying for this whole mess
when it decides to subside, like we have everywhere
else, which also makes me sick. We don’t have a pot to
piss in or a window to throw it out of but we’ll throw
money at countries to try and buy favorable opinion of
us.
If you want new digs, piss off the US and they’ll
destroy your old ones and build you new ones. “Bus
driver… MOVE THAT BUS!”
When does it end?

Report this

By MeHere, September 5, 2011 at 6:10 pm Link to this comment

Aquifer, on Sep 5 at 10:27 AM, called attention to the following from C.
Hedges’ article:

“Stopping Gadhafi forces from entering Benghazi six months ago, which I
supported, was one thing. Embroiling ourselves in a civil war was another.”

I was equally struck by that so I read it again a few times.  That statement
carries the arrogance that is hopelessly embedded in our Western culture when
we view other cultures and nations.  We decide what to bomb, when to bomb,
who to support, how to predict outcomes…..when in fact we know nothing or
very little given the fluidity of these situations and the complexities of history. The only thing the West seems to know about internal conflicts in foreign nations is how to evaluate what’s in it for the big interests that dominate their own countries. And even with that, they sometimes make mistakes.

The most constructive commentary I’ve come across about the situation in
Libya is that it is a chaotic situation and that it’s hard to sort out what’s going
on.  Probably, Libyans themselves are trying to figure it out.

Report this

By CitizenWhy, September 5, 2011 at 6:05 pm Link to this comment

blogdog correctly identifies the al Queda connections of the Libyan rebels. Is it
any surprise that the draft constitution they have presented enshrines Sharia
law?

BUT NATO and the US were well aware of these al Queda connections. Which
leads me to believe that the Libyans have developed a shrewder al Queda
strategy, going in the short term for the Saudi model - strict Sharia laws
combined with happily doing business with Europe and the US, letting the West
exploit and benefit from Libyan assets. The Libyans have also made it clear that
they do not want any “infidel” troops in Libya, a big factor in turning Osama bin
Laden against Saudi Arabia.

There is widespread suspicion that we have planted “documents”  for the rebels
to find “proving” that China was willing to sell arms to al Queda through
Qaddafi. At this point it looks like Chinese and Brazilian companies will be
kicked out of Libya, to be replaced by NATO and US companies. Does this make
you suspicious?

Meanwhile “reform” al Queda operatives like those in Libya can focus on a long
term strategy of taking over Europe through mostly peaceful but very
aggressive moves.

Not mentioned in this article is the stand of the African Union which advocated
negotiation and compromise as the solution for Libya. This approach took into
account the fact that the Qaddafis have a great deal of real support in Libya.

Of course the African Union was also desirous of having Libya continue to
invest its sovereign wealth throughout Africa, often replacing France in
influence. The progressives in the African Union wanted Libya to help them
bring much of Africa up to the high living standards in Libya through a wise use
of oil and other commodity revenues. The Qaddafis glommed off a good bit of
that wealth but also put it to use to build infrastructure and raise the Libyan
standard of living. Now the new regime will probably be investing in the West.

But the football game framing of the Libyan situation blinded people in the US
to the complexities of the situation. All we wanted to hear was, “We won! We’re
Number One.” Joan Rivers, where are you when we need you, chiding people to
“Grow up!”

Report this

By Michael Cavlan RN, September 5, 2011 at 6:03 pm Link to this comment

David Cyr

You are in fact seeing the CLASS NATURE of this thing.

Comfortable middle class folks who can afford to own a Volvo or Subaru do indeed support their war criminal. As indeed does the invisible donors who “encourage” pro- Obama/Dem articles be published in “progressive” media and blogs.

Outside of these comfortable circles a very different picture is coming into focus.

Guess I can forget that Truthdigger Of The Week Award AGAIN, huh?

Grin

Come to the lake, the political atmosphere is beautiful
firedoglake that is.

Report this

By rend, September 5, 2011 at 5:37 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ghaddaffi, Saddam, The iatola komani, these guys and their governments were
essentially allowed, because the effect they have/ had was to put these nation states
and their oil reserves essentially on hold, in deep storage. Sure there is production, but
as “socialist states” or whatever boogie monster we are labeling Iran with these days
their production is low, they are not fully engaged with Western oil production - on the
scale that truly rapes the land. As the petrol becomes needed the actors are overthrown,
and the countries are opened for business. As is evidenced this week in the revelations
coming out of documents found in the British Embassy, linking in the CIA to Libyan affairs
while under Ghaddaffi’s rule, these guys and their countries are never allowed to slip too
far down the slippery slope of total non compliance with West oil interests.

This all needs to be looked at in the long term. We pushed Iran away after 9-11 and the
moderates lost power, reason? Irans isnt needed yet.

Report this
David J. Cyr's avatar

By David J. Cyr, September 5, 2011 at 5:32 pm Link to this comment

Whenever I venture out onto the highways here in the Catskill Mountains of New York, or when visiting in Vermont, I always see them. They’re usually Subaru wagons — sometimes Volvos — with a “PEACE” sign stuck to their rear bumpers… next to the proudly displayed “Obama ‘08” or even more proudly displayed “Obama ‘12” bumper sticker.

It’s evident that for “progressives” it’s not fascism when Democrats do it.

Report this

By NABNYC, September 5, 2011 at 5:23 pm Link to this comment

The constitution gives the power declare war only to the Congress.  The framers did not want one person (the president) to have the power to send our people to kill and to die on foreign soil, to spend our treasury in foreign wars.  Congress, the most representative branch of government, must openly debate, deliberate, and make that decision whether to send our nation to war.  As noted, Obama completely ignored the constitutional limitations when he decided to send the U.S. to war against Libya.

But I go further.  Hedges supports the original U.N.-sanctioned role of stopping Qadaffi from entering a certain city because of the assumption the government was going to slaughter people.  Perhaps so.  But I do not see that anticipated harm as altering the constitution.  It still was a decision which could only be authorized by Congress.

I’ll go further.  I do not see anything in the constitution that authorizes the government to send our military into foreign wars except and unless our nation has been attacked.  The federal government has the authority and responsibility to defend our nation.  There is nothing in our constitution which authorizes our government to send our military to defend some other country.  All these treaties the government has entered with foreign nations which supposedly obligate the U.S. to go into foreign wars in every country around the world if anybody threatens them—all unconstitutional. 

The federal government is authorized to protect and defend the U.S.  That means protect and defend our borders, not protect and defend France just because we like France.

This is a critical point.  We should force the issue by putting pressure on Congress to clarify it.  No more foreign wars.  If somebody can make a good argument that an aggressor nation (i.e. nazi Germany) is invading one after another country in the world, will soon control them all then come after us, that might be enough to justify the U.S. involving itself in a foreign war.  But short of that, the rest of these wars are nothing more than wars of aggression.  Unconstitutional.

Somebody doesn’t like Iraq?  Too bad, it’s not my problem.  Somebody doesn’t like Iran?  Tough.  Libya, Syria:  same thing.  It’s not my problem.

By allowing our government to act as if they have complete authority to go into any war at any time in any nation, we have allowed our country to become a goon squad for Wall Street and the WTO, providing weapons and muscle to support them in looting the world.

As far as “humanitarian” intervention:  there might be a rare circumstance in which it would make sense, but it cannot be done by the U.S. government or with our military or with taxpayer dollars.  It should be restricted to people making donations to the U.N., for example, or other NGOs.

Report this

By Peter Duveen, September 5, 2011 at 5:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I’m afraid that Chris Hedges’ characterization of Qaddafi as mentally unbalanced is out of bounds, coming from one who approved of the NATO action in Benghazi, which a person of even rudimentary mental faculties ought to have known was the beginning of a horrific war crime.

Report this

By balkas, September 5, 2011 at 3:53 pm Link to this comment

supreme court, army echelons, cia/fbi/city police,
corporations, media 50mn rabid americans do not
think obama shred constitution—they actually
‘know’ he’s fulfilling it. tnx

Report this

By Textynn, September 5, 2011 at 3:29 pm Link to this comment

“Yesterday’s victims rapidly become today’s  
victimizers” 

While this may true in the real world, in this case
it is never ending because it is all done by proxy by
the powerful. If the likes of Obama and Bush could
see their children with their heads blown off, the
wars would end quickly.  But no, these people don’t
put these images in their “beautiful brains”. They
live beautiful lives in gated communities protected
by shifts of security paid for by you and me. 
Pretending to care for people and America while they
clearly don’t.

Like the work done by the masses without thanks or
living wages, they just enjoy the perks and stand
against anything that slows down those perks coming
in waves.

It’s official, America is almost dead from cancer.  A
cancer of elite control killing the host and
spreading around the globe.  It has reached the
critical point where no methods can stop it.  When
America completely falls, a shady dictator will be
handed the reins and the elite will move to
Switzerland and use the US like they do other third
world countries not fit for living where they exploit
every resource thoughtlessly and people live in
shacks begging for dirty water.

Americans are too stupid to stop it.  They are too
beaten down and shackled. They have forgotten freedom
decades ago.  Their brains are numbed out and they
have been conditioned to listen to a box as their God
and they believe in it like no other God ever.  What
is said is ABSOLUTE. 

Mad because I’m so negative and don’t sprinkle in
hope to my comment?  When I see reason for it, I may
have some.

Report this
blogdog's avatar

By blogdog, September 5, 2011 at 3:26 pm Link to this comment

the devil you know, or don’t know… what’ll it be?

Al Qaeda Commander of NATO’s Bloody Reign of Terror in Tripoli is the
Monster Abdel Hakim Belhadj, aka Abdel Hakim al-Hasadi, Friend of Osama Bin
Laden, former US POW, and Infamous Killer of US Soldiers in Afghanistan

This website had identified Belhadj/Hasidi/Hasadi and his terrorist gang in late
March: http://tinyurl.com/3ovc9tn

Rebel Triumvirate of Terror Rules Darna

According to the London Daily Telegraph of March 26, Darna (also transliterated
as Derna or Darnah), a key city in the rebel heartland between Benghazi in
Tobruk, is commanded by al-Hasidi, an al Qaeda terrorist controller who
trained and hobnobbed with Osama bin Laden at the Khost terrorist training
camp in Afghanistan. Hasidi boasts of having sent 25 fighters to fight US and
NATO forces in Afghanistan; one wonders how many they managed to kill.
Hasidi was a US prisoner of war after being captured by the Pakistanis, but tells
the Wall Street Journal of April 2 that he now hates the US only “less than 50%”
hinting that Americans can redeem themselves by appeasing Al Qaeda with
arms, money, political power, and diplomatic support. At his side in the city
leadership is Sufian bin Kumu, Osama bin Laden’s chauffeur, another terrorist
who was an inmate at Guantánamo Bay for six years. Also among the Darna city
fathers is al-Barrani, a devoted member of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group,
which merged with Al Qaeda in 2007.

This gaggle of fanatics, psychotics, and criminals is billed by the CIA media as
an effective ruling elite for the future democratic governance of Libya. In reality,
the Benghazi rebel council, heavily larded with al Qaeda terrorists, could only
preside over the descent of the country into a chaos of tribalism, warlords, and
criminal syndicates which would spell the end of civilization itself in the area.
Precisely this appears to be the goal of US policy, and not just in Libya.

See London Daily Telegraph, March 25, 2011: “Libyan rebel commander admits
his fighters have al-Qaeda links: Abdel-Hakim al-Hasidi, the Libyan rebel
leader, has said jihadists who fought against allied troops in Iraq are on the
front lines of the battle against Muammar Gaddafi’s regime,”
http://tinyurl.com/4a89ea5

See also Wall Street Journal, “Ex-Mujahedeen Help Lead Libyan Rebels,” April 3,
2011, at
http://tinyurl.com/3pr94uq

Report this

By Michael Cavlan RN, September 5, 2011 at 3:13 pm Link to this comment

At firedoglake there is a great new term being used.

It is describing those who stay in the Dem Party or tell others to stay and “work to make it better.


That term is

THE VEAL PEN

Obaaaaaaaaa-ma

Run little sheep.

Leave the veal pen.

Report this

By diamond, September 5, 2011 at 3:09 pm Link to this comment

“Yeah, Chris Hedges is like a broken clock-right twice a day.  And when he’s right I always say so.  Today isn’t that day.”

You’re right more than twice a day ITW and you’re certainly right on this. To take the position that these brave people should have been left to Gaddafi’s tender mercies is a completely outrageous position to take. You can’t say you want democracy in the Middle East and then let those who demand democracy be slaughtered. That’s nearly as crazy an idea as invading Iraq or Afghanistan. Nearly.

Report this

By christian96, September 5, 2011 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment

I’ve been reading comments.  Someone mentioned
“putting the Pentagon out of business.”  I’d say
the opposite, “put business out of the Pentagon.”

Report this

By Evana Garcia, September 5, 2011 at 2:17 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This is exactly what is going to happen. I shared these same analysis with my friends. Wait and see the sharks and prey birds coming after the oil. Lybians are celebrating without knowing what is coming to them. They will cry blood tears!

Report this
cpb's avatar

By cpb, September 5, 2011 at 2:11 pm Link to this comment

“...‘conditioning’ - ...conditioned..to accept and support both soft (stealthy) and hard (brutal) globalist regime change

essential mission: fail self-determinant states

goal: bring them under endless IMF/World Bank debt-service hegemony.”

- Blogdog

I thought that worth repeating.  Succint.

Some are more conditioned than others.

Report this

By gerard, September 5, 2011 at 2:03 pm Link to this comment

MESSAGE TO CHRIS HEDGES FROM BILLY BRAGG:
“We need a new way to articulate a compassionate world.”
  “We live in a world of possibilities.”
  “We can’t allow ourselves to be locked out.”
  “Our enemies rely on us to give up.”\
  “Tomorrow’s gonna Be a better day,
  We’re conna make it that way!”

(Thanks to Democracy Now, Monday, Sept. 5,2011)

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, September 5, 2011 at 1:47 pm Link to this comment

I can’t get my head around that ideas of all these Qaddaffi lovers who think rather than stay on the fringes, we should actually have HELPED this insane monster stay in power.  This wasn’t Iraq. We didn’t invade and put hundreds of thousands of boots on the ground.

If anyone is a troll it’s all these supporters of Qaddaffi who would have preferred him to prevail and slaughter his people by the 10’s of thousands.  They were rising against him and when THAT happened in Iraq (under George Bush, Sr.) Saddam Hussein murdered hundreds of thousands of his own people and the SAME people who are do NOT help the rebels now, said we should have helped the Iraqi people then.

I’m glad we are not fighting a war in Libya.  And I’m glad Qaddaffi has been deposed.  I don’t have a problem with that.

Yeah, Chris Hedges is like a broken clock-right twice a day.  And when he’s right I always say so.  Today isn’t that day.

Report this

By Michael Cavlan RN, September 5, 2011 at 12:37 pm Link to this comment

Sitting here thinking of EJ Dionne, Eugene Robinson, Amy Goodman, Juan Cole and the rest. Then singing

How many apologist writers get ink in Truthdig
Peddling apologist lies? Before they all get exposed?

The answers my friends, are a blowing in the wind
Or they could be with Inherit the Wind.

Grin. So when will truthdig actually allow the voices of progressives on truthdig.

Meanwhile at firedoglake and New Progressive Alliance ....

I will see at the truthtellers in DC October 5th, 6th, 7th .....

Report this

Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 >

 
Right 1, Site wide - BlogAds Premium
 
Right 2, Site wide - Blogads
 
Join the Liberal Blog Advertising Network
 
 
 
Right Skyscraper, Site Wide
 
Join the Liberal Blog Advertising Network
 

A Progressive Journal of News and Opinion   Publisher, Zuade Kaufman   Editor, Robert Scheer
© 2014 Truthdig, LLC. All rights reserved.

Like Truthdig on Facebook