Thats how they ought to settle this,  have

Keith Olberman and Glen Beck,  pull their peters out

and see which one is bigger,  winner gets their way

with the commuity center….

If they something smart like that,

then what would the media have to talk about???

Can’t talk about all the oil in the Gulf,  not allowed.
Can’t talk about lies going on right now about Iraq,
not allowed.
Can’t talk about the real unemployment figures, not allowed.
Can’t talk about all weapons programs that is the only
real employment growth besides building prisons, not
allowed.
As a matter of fact the media is not allowed to talk
about anything that might have a positive effect on
the citizens..,,,,only stuff relating to more fucking war,
or politics of divide.
Our media, for what what its worth, might as well be
doing PENIS size comparison contests every night.

Hey Germany,

  That has so much common sense,  that could never
happen in this country.

Spoken like a true Muslim Arabian Sinbad Thank you for making my case.

By Atilla, August 18 at 4:20 pm Link to this comment

As far as Muslims go you can take your tolerance and stick it where the sun don’t shine. I have a real problem that the Muslim leaders, much less the rank and file, refuse to publicly disavow radical Islam. These people are Muslims first and, if they are legal citizens, Americans last. The tenents of their own religion require them to be so. You people are going to choke on your own tolerance one day.
========================================
You are another glaring example that f…n bloody bigots and racists like you will always make these sad USA a very unsafe place for anyone!

How many native Americans your ancestors have killed in order to pass the torch of evil white supremacists to the bad seed that you are, living in in the 21st century!

Actually the original Muslims flourished and prospered in lands where the sun always shone, and I think some modern Muslims have the bad luck to share the same space with bigots and ignoramus like you!

However, I hope and pray that your evil hate for Muslims will turn into a permanent nightmare as you come to the realization that they are here to stay by a fate decree!

As far as Muslims go you can take your tolerance and stick it where the sun don’t shine. I have a real problem that the Muslim leaders, much less the rank and file, refuse to publicly disavow radical Islam. These people are Muslims first and, if they are legal citizens, Americans last. The tenents of their own religion require them to be so. You people are going to choke on your own tolerance one day.

Republicans—backed by plutocrats—have one role, to monopolize all media stories, hoping to retake power away from the Democrats.

Even though Republicans miscreants are a minority, our media, our corporate culture enables them.

We as an informed people need to recognize the Republican party’s misanthropy, its motive of dividing and destroying rather than building.

When that is done, their demagoguery will stop.

The United States no longer has a white/black binary and a recent legacy of Jim Crow democrats. What we have instead is a multiracial populace in which millions are intermarried, and in which millions of Asians, Hispanics, Punjabis, and Arabs of diverse class and ethnic allegiances don’t quite fit the “people of color” vs. white paradigm of oppression, victimization, and compensation.

In that context, the details of the ongoing “Ground Zero Mosque” affair filtered down to the public as yet more racial boredom. Like the Skip Gates affair, the Tea Party, and the Rev. Wright mess, the initial moments led to endless psychodrama, rationalizations, more supposed “teachable moments,” and more public anger at the administration and democratic far left for either promoting all this or failing to stop what it ignited.

The public does not easily express its feelings, but this growing frustration certainly explains in part the president’s negative polls, now at 50 percent. They will go still lower if the administration follows the advice of some on the left and continues to deal in off-putting racial identity politics.

-

It’s easy, all too easy in fact, to cry racism when one is losing an argument or policy debate.  It’s also foolishly, needlessly, dangerous.

The cons would write Thomas Jefferson out of the history books if they had the chance.  Oh, Wait!  They had the chance in Texas and took it.

RayLan, - “You have not given a serious argument how defending the right to build a religious place of worship which is a first ammendment right - is intolerant.”

-

Correct.  Precisely because I have not argued, anywhere, that defending the the right to build a religious place of worship, in and of itself, is intolerance. - I have defended the Mosque being built at that location. 

Last time: Do you have a serious question in our near future?

@Goright - As I suspected you must evade the issue by characterizing the intention and style of the statements rather than the content.
This is a logical fallacy known as ‘ad hominem’ and pointing that out is not itself ‘ad hominem’ (just to anticipate your one trick pony)
This is the substance- You have not given a serious argument how defending the right to build a religious place of worship which is a first ammendment right - is intolerant.

tropicgirl, August 17 at 11:36 am

I went to comment on Robinson’s twist on this, but you said it all so eloquently, that, while the boys were still out quarreling in the schoolyard.

I don’t think that it’s so much that a mosque could ever be built there, but this is still a really poor time to even consider doing so. You’re right, the Obama Administration is using this issue to slap the average American in the face, yet one more time (where’s the 9/11 investigation, Barry?), and then use the millions
of peaceful Muslims as the glove. The whole thing just reeks.

The only thing Robinson did get right was about Jefferson’s tolerance. Obama is just as guilty as the Republicans that Robinson despises.

RayLan,  “It’s precisely from reading your illogical and badly supported comments that I call it strategic misinterpretation.”

In other words you disagree with me, your logic is clearly far superior and your intentions are obviously lined with tolerance and compassion for others unlike yourself. My intentions are obviously, strategically, dishonest and nefarious to its core.

You’ll understand my position here. There is no room for an open discussion after such a declaration. Correct?

“I am just fascinated how you reason to twist the first ammendment into intolerance. Please parse that logic for my further edification.”

Just the right touch of condescension. Nicely done.  And I am the “intolerant” between the two of us?

It boggles my mind that so many people get such an inner thrill in their anonymity with being completely unattached to basic conversational decency.

I’ll decide upon your next reply if I wish to engage you further in an “open” and “respectful” conversation.

-

Now. Do you have a real question?  One meant to authentically listen and understand an opposing point of view?  A question not intended to elevate yourself and demean another simply for holding a different point of view?

If not I will rarely look at your posts.

Go Right -
It’s precisely from reading your illogical and badly supported comments that I call it strategic misinterpretation.
Just repeating about me is no argument. I am just fascinated how you reason to twist the first ammendment into intolerance. Please parse that logic for my further edification.

As a libertarian, I often disagree with Eugene Robinson. But on this issue, he is one hundred percent correct. The pandering and stupidity of the right wing on this issue is simply nauseating.

I have known many Muslims over the years. Without a single exception, they have been polite, thoughtful, intelligent, and hard-working.

I have had the opportunity to discuss cultural and religious issues with Muslims. They have always been open and willing to discuss their faith and culture. They have NEVER attempted to convert me to their faith, or said a single bad thing about Christianity (or Judaism, for that matter).

Although I don’t belong to an organized religion, I enjoy visiting churches and mosques to appreciate the cultures that inspire them.

I just get the funny feeling that Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin have not known a lot of Muslims in their lives. If they have, that makes their pandering even more nauseating.

Ofersince72

“…Jefferson would be owning your black ass, and taking your daughter behind the barn…”

“You media pigs all belong in a pig pen.”

“...just what are you pigs doing….”

“...Just reading the posts on Hedges column shows how ignorant we are…”

“...We are the biggest bunch of ingnorant fools on the plant…”

“…we have quacks like you, Beck (yes, you fit right into the Beck, limbaugh mold)...” 

“The public doesn’t know a fucking thing,…”

“…Robinson , you suck and border on criminality…”

“…screw you too…”

Having a bad day, are we?

“Sense data are much more controversial than qualia, because they are associated with a controversial theory of perception - that one perceives the world by perceiving one’s sense-data, or something like that.”

David Chalmers

so the Irish, that depended on potatoes to get them
through a famine,

can thank the Injuns…...........they did….didn’t they?

By the way,  the Injuns gave us

tomatos and potatoes (and about everything else we
eat besides meat)

the dumbass Europeans didn’t know how to cultivate,
all they knew and still know is RAPE AND PILLAGE.

I forgot,,  SLUTS….. also describes them

So instead of you and your buddies trying to

unite the tea baggers, the undereducated in the South,

the blacks, the Hipanics, the confused “progressives

on the Coasts to formulate so kind of allience to

wrestle our government back from the murderers, liars,
thieves, crooks, tramps, vagabonds, hustlers, chumps,
pukes, racists, pigs, egotists, Ivies,

what are you doing????????????????????????$$$$$$$$$$$$$

The best you liberals can come up with is KRUGMAN,

and you conservatives, Douchbagawitz.

When the we need a responsible media more than ever.
We get Robinson, Scheer, Hedges(the token), Dionne,
Maddow, Beck,

and a bunch of non-issue makers that take good air time
and talk about a mosque. but dare not talk about the
empty space that made it available.

When they said THE DUMBING DOWN OF AMERICA

that was an understatement, and included from the

Ivy ies on down…......These MSMS and not so newspapers

have the American Public so screwed up and programmed it

is going to be impossible to ever straighten out the mess

we are in.

The A Z T E C   S Y N D O M E

is alive and very well, and anyone who doesn’t beleive so

has their head in a creator with a huge sand dune over

top of it.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Hey Robinson,

  I hate to remind you, but Jefferson would be owning
your black ass, and taking your daughter behind the barn.

But you educated blacks have come a long way baby, leaving
behind what embarrasses you in the gettos.

You media pigs all belong in a pig pen.  You knew exactly
what Obama was going to be, all you media did! ! !
But instead of trying to unite this country when we need
uniting in the worst way…....just what are you pigs
doing….trying your damndest to keep us divided in every
little segment that you can.
  As long as Corporate America owns all the media systems
we are screwed.  We , well, the ones we voted into office,
gave our broadcasting, newspaper services, everything
that would keep this a democratic society to the vultures.
I used to think Campaign Finance Reform was America’s
primary issue of concern to get our republic back. Just
reading the posts on Hedges column shows how ignorant we
are, and how ignorant we are going to stay because of
General Electric, Disney Time,  Murdock, WAPO, NYT, AND
the rest. We are the biggest bunch of ingnorant fools on
the planet and the most ill informed. And we have quacks
like you, Beck (yes, you fit right into the Beck, limbaugh
mold).  The public doesn’t know a fucking thing, doesn’t
even know what the issues really are thanks to you and
the corporate controlled media.
  We need to get our airwaves back in a very bad , bad
way,,,NOW. Robinson , you suck and border on criminality
along with everyone of our legislatures and president.
And for all you that have been foolish enough to have been
subscribing to this nonsense for the last forty years,
screw you too, because you are just as responsible for
my country being given away to the vultures that aren’t
going to let go of it easily. And it damn sure won’t be
done with a vote.
WE NEED OUR AIRWAVES AND MEDIA BACK, NOW, NOW NOW,
AND GET RID OF HACKS LIKE ROBINSON , BECK, MADDOW, ET.AL.

RayLan,- “I can see you are going to strategically misinterpret what I say or anybody says…”

-

If you revisit my comments you’ll see that I have not “interpreted” your words one way or another.  I simply read and understood your comments, let them stand on their own, and added a different point of view.  Why get to bent about it? 

Is that the tolerance of others you write of?

glider,

AKA - Pretzel logic?  You begin with an insult and the move on to engage me in dialog or ask questions?

Not interested.

Dudley

“Lies, distortions, jingoism, xenophobia” Eugene wrote this article about you. I’d include fabricator, but your not a fabricator, you’re a parrot.

I just heard the out take of Rush comparing the Islamic center to Wal-Mart. You need to get a life, and a brain to go along with it.

If Eugene said the moon was yellow, you’d have to check with Rush, before you called him a Bigot.

Dudley want a cracker?

GRYM, a.k.a. pretzel logic,

Just how do you equate Olbermann’s freedom of speech rights to disapprove of Walmart corporate policies, with advocating for denying Walmart’s right to purchasing private property?  Or just what am I missing here IYO?

“Mosqueitis” is the newest fad which allows politicians to avoid addressing real problems

Go Right Young Man=
I can see you are going to strategically misinterpret what I say or anybody says that doesn’t come from a strictly bigoted viewpoint.
I fail to see any intolerance or historical ignorance from Oberman - He is arguing for tolerance - not the opposite. - The contradiction isn’t that Oberman doesn’t know why we went into Iraq - the contradiction is to maintain a simple-minded bigotry about mosques and still claim we went to Iraq to fight for the Muslim population (NOT).
And what does Walmart have to do with it?
Your logic is fascinating - I would like you to parse it for me- since it is a matter of great intellectual curiosity how bigotry justifies itself.

I love to watch Eugene’s bumbling work. Pummel the American people with
insults into supporting Obama (?).

The situation here shows me that the lies of 911 have come back to roost
again. If you really believe that Muslims did the job, then there is no way you
can support this legal, but unfortunate decision.

But, if you KNOW that 911 was an inside job, then its easy to continue to use
and manipulate Muslim/American relations to your political advantage. Patsies
are patsies, after all, and the State Department Imam is fully cooperative,
apparently.

You can’t have it both ways. Now, as far as I am concerned, they can CHOKE on
their 911 lie. They think the mosque is fine because they know the truth.

And, I ask, what kind of Muslims, or Muslim Imam, would be working for a
State Department of a country that exterminates them all over the world and
falsely blames them for starting wars?

And what kind of Muslims would allow the biggest spy network of all time
build mosques for them, all over the world?

I hope and pray that someday these people will stop being used as pawns.

But the mosque should not and will not be built there. A decent Muslim Imam
would respectfully withdraw, as it is in the Muslim religion, not to be a
troublemaker.

The psychological daggers and needles contained in some of these comments from the right wingers who post here are meant to distract and take a readers mind off of what they just consumed. So as to almost “cleanse” or confuse the reader, who is unsure about how they may now feel about the issue they just read and then scrolls down to read what other posters are saying. 

There is a pattern, on liberal progressive leaning sites, the comments come in more sophisticated and play on the guilt of the reader.  I guess because maybe most of us reading these articles do so because we feel some sort of responsibility and care about our world and neighbors who live in it with us.  Kind of the opposite from the psychological game played on fox telecasts where fear is the primary emotion played upon.  On sites like CNN or more “mainstream” sites the comments come in more blatant and the bullying isn’t hidden at all.  The “your not American if you don’t agree with our right wing point of view” game is played there. 

There is a definite pattern going on.

RayLan - “Oberman is speaking with strong tones but informed and above all logical statements about the nature of democracy and prejudice.

-

Yes.  Strong tones and, what appear to be, logical statements on private property rights.  Of course not so much when it comes to Walmart purchasing private property and building on the site.  He seems to then forget his moral, legal and ethical logic.

I do, however, think it’s fantastic that Olbermann finally understands what the U.S. has fought for in Iraq (for Muslims, freedom and tolerance) after nine years of, almost daily, saying he “has no idea” why the U.S. went into Iraq.  I applaud his new-found enlightenment.

Refuting hatred by displaying unmitigated intolerance and hatred is, well, hatred.  Yes?

@Go Right Young Man
Oberman is speaking with strong tones but informed and above all logical statements about the nature of democracy and prejudice - and how it grows by increments - his historical facts are accurate - like uh - we’ve been fighting for Muslims in Irag -
and the stupid generalizations about who attacked us - which we got wrong to begin with - about Iraq -
Refuting hatred is not hatred

kerryrose, - “Please watch Olbermann to understand how hatred and fear grows”

-

Olbermann is indeed a useful example of how hate and fear can grow within a person.  His hate, in particular, is palpable.

His take on this issue is emotional, highly partisan, angry, historically deficient, dismissive of others and, well, small.

Please watch Olbermann to understand how hatred and fear grows:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/16/olbermann-ground-zero-mosque_n_684272.html

The fanatics have done their work. They have played on irrational fearmonging and twisted logic that is so often practiced in the name of being American and they won. The good thing it that is has outed the deep anti-Muslim Christian bigotry in this country. Let’s not forget the internment camps in the forties because of America’s war with Japan. Attacking and violating targeted American’s civil rights has typically been the knee-jerk response to conflicts with any country or group of a particular race or religion.
It is precisely this kind of dangerous stupidity which some Americans want the US to be famous for, that inspired 9/11.

And all the colored girls go

  do, de, do, de, do,

  Eugene Robinson….......

  You should be writing for the National Inquirer.

  Well, I don’t believe the WAPO is anything more than
  that anyway.  Keep supporting the murderers, liars
  thieves and tramps of the duopoly, Mr. Pulitzer.

Young Man

First, there are usually multiple possible reasons for the choice of a name.  In this case, it might have to do with the name of one of the investors in the proposed project, The Cordoba Initiative.  You can check their website for a mission statement that resonates with the quote from project sponsors in the wiki article on ‘The Cordoba House’ that the name ‘was meant to invoke 8th–11th century Córdoba, where Muslims, Christians, and Jews co-existed in relative peace’.  Deliberately choosing a different interpretation than that professed by the project sponsors is one example of how to be ‘truly myopic and hateful’ on an emotionally charged issue.

Second, [this cat is pushing a watermelon out of a lake] and other things that have no relevance to the discussion don’t strengthen an invalid argument.

Third, your issue is political and has nothing to do with anything except pushing emotional buttons.  The issue of the proposed community center with space for Muslims to worship is a non-issue because it has not yet broken any laws that I am aware of.

*Any attempted rezoning of the area in question to prevent the construction of the proposed community center would and should be exposed as the transparently bigoted and hateful string-pulling of an increasingly desperate and increasingly isolated hate-filled minority of americans.

Post Script:  For a better understanding of some real and relevant issues Americans face today, please see Dr. Martin Luther King Jr’s speech opposing the war in Vietnam.  It can be found on Youtube and it covers a lot of good ground in about 20 minutes.  I do hope you sincerely believe what you claim to.

Eugene Robinson has written a well-thought piece here that leaves no doubt about the bigotry,little-mindedness and shameful opportunism of those who have made of the proposed Islamic Center in New York a political issue.
 
Though I am a practicing Muslim and nothing makes me happier than seeing beautiful mosques, synagogues or churches built in place of crumbling old buildings and waste land, I am opposed to the building of this particular community center for the simple reason that it has become a controversial issue and has given the sick bigots and racists an opportunity to vent their dangerous venom and make this frivolous issue an issue of dirty political opportunism. I am weeping for how low my adopted homeland has sunk!

If you look at this project from an economic point of view, it should be welcomed as an opportunity to create jobs and renovate and beautify a run-down piece of property. However, because of the crude irrational bigotry that exists against Islam and Muslims among the bigoted and ignorant herd, the people behind this project are better off in investing their money in some poor Muslim country needing jobs and development. In fact, 500 million dollars are badly needed right now to help their Pakistani brethren suffering from unprecedented flood disaster.

However, the bigots should be reminded, just for the record, that in the 9/11 tragic event, (whose true perpetrators have not been identified yet!) some 300 hundred Muslims have also perished. In proportion to the numerical presence of Muslims in the USA, it is possible that the percentage of Muslims who perished stands as the highest among any other religious denomination.

So whoever plotted the 9/11 tragic event never thought about the religious denomination of those who will perish, let alone about their humanity. So this tragic event was an inside pure evil political-military act as a necessary prelude to the evil wars that will eventually happen in Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Palestine by the evil duo of political-military USA and Israel and their cohorts of Mammon worshipers.

Malcontent,

First. Those same polls, all there for all to see, make it clear that nearly 80% of the American public agree with you. Building the Muslim Center is the right, not only of the property owners, but of the Muslim community as a whole.  There is a Mosque nearby with nary a concern.  Clearly fear is not the driving issue. - Concern that such a facility could be used as an icon toward those who attacked on Sept. 11 certainly should not be dismissed out-of-hand either.  Perhaps first calling it “The Cordoba House” was not the best idea.

Second. I too agree with you on private property rights.*  Including Walmart.  Yet that is never popular on this Web space.  Private property rights seems oddly a new-found concern for many today.

Third. My issues are about Mr. Robinson’s small minded fear, hate, and not-so-subtle bigotry in making this an political issue about one party over another. This issue cuts across all political and religious lines.  This seems much more about the worst attack inside the continental United States, the surviving victims and the wisdom in the placement. All very valid questions and concerns.

Post script:  I believe the Community Center should be built.  I also hold my own real concerns on the wisdom of doing so.  I at least understand I may turn out to have been wrong.

*Of course private property is zoned and rezoned daily in hundreds of cities and towns across the nation for a multitude of reasons. Including “public concern” and “public safety”.

By Go Right Young Man, August 16 at 9:08

“So far dozens of liberal minded politicians have come out against a new Muslim Center on that particular site”

So what? Doesn’t change the constitution.

“but, you are certain all concerns of an Muslim Center now being built near the site are products of lies, distortions, jingoism or xenophobia?”

Who cares what their “concerns” are about? I personally, am not a big fan of any religion, especially islam. Fortunately, neither my petty prejudices, nor anyone else’s count when compared to the property rights and constitutional rights of the land owner.

“That is that every poll you have witnessed of late displays across-the-board concerns on the wisdom of placing a new Muslim Center at that particular location”

You found wisdom in any poll that promoted cultural discomfort over constitutional rights?

“Those two concerns are perfectly reasonable to any reasonable human being.  Only a passionate fool would dismiss these concerns, out-of-hand, only to place one’s own hate and fear onto the issue.”

Fear and fear are the only concerns on display here. Only a passionate fool would dismiss the laws of the land, out of hand, only to place one’s own hate and fear onto the issue.

It doesn’t really matter whether or not the American Public wants or doesn’t want a Mosque near “ground zero” its private property, and if the holder of that property wants to put a Mosque on it, that is their right. 

This is the United States of America and one of the primary rights established by the founders was freedom of religion.  End of story, if you don’t like the Mosque, don’t go to the Mosque. 

I agree this is just pandering to the ignorant who think all followers of Islam are terrorists.  Any conservative should be steadfastly for the rights of the property holders to use it as they wish, as long as its legal.  There is nothing conservative about blowing along with the whims of the masses.

kerryrose, - “We should all be ashamed of ourselves. Do people really think hat 9-11 had anything to do with religion?”

-

Dr. Zawahiri and Hassan Nasrallah sure seem to believe it. In fact they both teach exactly that.  Perhaps, at the very least, we should pay attention to that.

I, for one, refuse to take part in any self-loathing or sense of shame simply for paying attention to what most people, Muslim, Jew or Gentile, appear to believe.  Including those, no, particularly those who attacked on Sept. 11.

“Lies, distortions, jingoism, xenophobia—another day, another campaign issue that Republicans can use…..”

-

I think you could narrow your focus and hate a bit more in this election season, Mr. Robinson.

You knowledge “an existing mosque is just a few hundred feet more distant from the site of the collapsed towers”, and not an eyebrow or fuss is made about it in America but, you are certain all concerns of an Muslim Center now being built near the site are products of lies, distortions, jingoism or xenophobia? The dichotomy in this seems glaring.

So far dozens of liberal minded politicians have come out against a new Muslim Center on that particular site but, you mention only a handful of “those people” in your article.  Could you be any more xenophobic yourself, Mr. Robinson?  Could you “distort” the situation any more?

You write that “it might be, though, that most people oppose the project however the issue is framed” but, you dismiss what you already know.  That is that every poll you have witnessed of late displays across-the-board concerns on the wisdom of placing a new Muslim Center at that particular location. -  In other words; all the evidence points to you being completely out of touch with the real United States but, you are certain your hate and fear of a subset of American people is justified.

Wake the heck up,  Mr. Robinson.  You’re a nasty, hate-filled, bigot.

-

The concerns seem to be almost entirely about the “surviving victims” and the potential for the Center to be highlighted and praised by those who attacked the area on Sept. 11.  Those two concerns are perfectly reasonable to any reasonable human being.  Only a passionate fool would dismiss these concerns, out-of-hand, only to place one’s own hate and fear onto the issue.

My own opinion is that the new Muslim Community Center could bring more positives than negatives to New York and the U.S..  That does not change how truly myopic and hateful others can be on issues such as this.

We should all be ashamed of ourselves. Do people really think hat 9-11 had anything to do with religion?

It was payback for our military/corporate actions in Muslim countries.  Rather than admit that the politicians have whipped up fear and hatred at a religion, and look how easily citizens turn against our own Bill of Rights.

We wonder how the Holocaust could have happened.  We wonder how all those nice, regular people could have turned into monsters.  It is not so hard to see the ugliness that results from fear and hatred.