#64090 by archeon of thrace on 4/14 at 7:59 pm
(70 comments total )

Hi Sned!
I couldn’t agree with you more.

Thanks….

#64393 by Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD on 4/16 at 2:42 pm
(7 comments total)

The Sned,
I think many of the problems in the world are the result of faulty reasoning and weak or flawed rationalization and I think there is a lot of both here.  From the viewpoint of the victims and those who empathize with their pain, what happened was flat out wrong, flat out immoral. 

I don’t disagree with the fact it was wrong. However they were called a name. They weren’t hung or strung up. You have not said you listen to Don Imus. I have for over 20 years. You don’t know the man that I know. He is not a bigot. What he said was bigotted. He took away a celebration. They can still celebrate. Names only hurt if you let them hurt. There are good posts here that also disagree with you and make excellent points in doing so.

“You call it what you want.  Incidently, if it hurts you so much that I called Imus an abuser, then you can surely understand how it must feel to be a Black and a female in this country—with the history of both groups being largely who you are—and to be called a N-HH.  To me, this issue is black and white and I don’t mean race.  And by the way, why do you take issue with my screen name?”

Your screen name reminds me of a young man I once worked with in the Adirondacks. I asked him where he went to school. He saidHarvard but didn’t want me to tell any of the others because he wanted to be one of the guys to which I replied….“then why did you tell me?”

He was arrogant. Thought he was special. Above the rest.  Your screen name is arrogant. Some of the dumbest people in the world are highly intelligent but can’t see the forest for the trees. If you have the degrees so what? If you don’t you’re a jerk.

  I kind of like it.  One TDer said, “Dr. Knowitall, PhD, Phd, pretty good, I love it

Maybe it was your mother?  Let’s you and I drop it.  We disagree. Imus is where he is because of what he said. On that we do agree.  I have my own issues with Mr Imus about people who need more understanding than a successful basketball team of college women who have no disability…If I haven’t proven to you that Imus has a heart, then so be it.

There is no comparing the Rosie O’Donnel
comedy with the dry sarcastic and usually
bilious comments often made on the Imus show.
Rosie attacks people who ask for the exposure by putting themselves out front for critisism. Public people….
The Rutger team of girls are merely college girls trying to find their way through the maze of education and school sports. They weren’t looking for either critisism or glorification from the likes of Imus. He is a JERK.

The Sned,
I think many of the problems in the world are the result of faulty reasoning and weak or flawed rationalization and I think there is a lot of both here.  From the viewpoint of the victims and those who empathize with their pain, what happened was flat out wrong, flat out immoral.  You call it what you want.  Incidently, if it hurts you so much that I called Imus an abuser, then you can surely understand how it must feel to be a Black and a female in this country—with the history of both groups being largely who you are—and to be called a N-HH.  To me, this issue is black and white and I don’t mean race.  And by the way, why do you take issue with my screen name?  I kind of like it.  One TDer said, “Dr. Knowitall, PhD, Phd, pretty good, I love it.”

I did not mean to imply that I know anything about Imuses character away from the limelight, in private.  His attempt at “street” humour backfired, and showed that he like all of us can have moments of extreme stupidity.

I meant to imply that humour particularly in this case demonstrates that he like all of us is an ever evolving person, whos character is evolving through time.

To immediately call for his firing is counter productive.  To fire him is counter productive.  Jackson and Scharpton should have come on his show to discuss what he said,  they would have been right to repremand him on his show.  Imus could then have redeemed himself and demostrated that it is better to admit error, take your lumps, and grow in character.  This would have done more to illustrate the unacceptable nature of what he said.

To say to ask for forgiveness is the mark of the abuser eliminates the possiblility of redemption and healing.  It perpetuates a cycle of accusation that is impossible to breakfree from.

The fact that Imus does and has done much that is good, and much that is bad, and much that falls somewhere inbetween does not excuse his behaviour when it is bad, but it show he is human.  Perhaps the the outrage is not with Imus, but with ourselves because through this confront our inner asshole.  We are all bigots to some degree, to deny this is selfdelusion and dishonest.

Better an honest bigot than a coward under sheets in the night.  Anyone seen “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner”?  This movie illustrates the hypocracy of the liberal left very nicely.  I wonder where do Sharpton and Jackson live? in the “hood”? or among their “white” upper middle class social compatriots?  For people like Sharpton and Jackson, and to some extent Obama, the continuance of the racial divide maintaines their power base.  The reduction of poverty, the reduction of crime, the easing of racial tensions makes them redundant and pointless.

64313 by Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD on 4/16 at 7:26 am
(6 comments total)
“Sned, I was dealing with the issue of redemption.  To abuse and then apologize for it is classic abuser behavior. “

Don Imus apologized, not to save his job but to right a wrong. I don’t believe that Don Imus for a moment gave much of his abuse of others a thought…especially those undeserving of abuse. To call Dick Cheney “a war criminal” I believe was fabulous. What do you think? 

“Either you’re an abuser or you’re not.  Abuse is immoral.  People who abuse or otherwise act immorally and then expect to be excused for it because of their “good” deeds, i.e., paying the bill to send kids to camp, are basically sociopaths. “

I don’t think you understood what Imus’s camp is all about either. He’s not sending kids to camp. He is the camp. He’s the father figure for those kids for the days they are at that camp. Imus, his wife and son the core family. All the kids and the Imus’ sleep in the same building. He restores the dignity of those kids not giving them everything they want, and letting their illness control things… but by teaching them to work and be cowboys and cowgirls. There is no pool there to romp in. If they romp in anything it manure. He is not a sociopath. More like a slow learner. Get off your high horse.

I think you’re being an idealist to a fault. Abuse is all over. Comedian after comedian.  Sharpton and Jackson alike in their pasts. Almost all of us at one time or another.

You either listen to Don Imus or you have little idea of what he’s about and what the real appeal of the show was…which was not ethnic slurs but intelligent conversation with people one never hears express opinions etc…and at length. He is not a bigot. What he said was bigoted. Archie Bunker lived among all the people he portrayed as having disliked, yet liberals tend to writechecks and not live among those with whom Archie lived.  I don’t think Norman Lear ever gave that a thought.

I’ve been there I’ve seen it. I lived it.

Your screen name says much about you, regardless of your degrees or not.
I can, with a fair degree of certainty guarantee you have never listened to the Imus program. As a person who has tried to stop some of his worst behavior, I can tell you the ones who stopped my letters from going to him, were the first out the door when thie Rutgers issue came up.

You tell me about abusers. I’ll tell you about cowards. Don’t watch CBS. Don’t watch NBC, Don’t buy P&G products. Don’t buy GM products. Don’t buy Bigelow Tea. Don’t go to Staples. Don’t listen to any liberal politician or Orin Hatch and hundreds of others who appeared on his program..  They all enabled Don Imus. They heard him. And most of them claimed no responsibility. (Although David Gregory has posed the question…and seems to be on more on Imus’ side than not in the way the issue has been handled.)

Don Imus is a child who has to grow up. He has already done more for more people than I would guess you or I would ever do. And given a chance to grow up he will do more.

Furthermore, we have learned that there is no real “free speech.” Say what you want but be prepared for consequences your words and the sentiment behind them produce, i.e., Imus.  His “free speech” turned out pretty costly, not just to him, but to his victims.”

If anything much good will come from it.  Wait and see.

So even by apologizing we are unable to redeem ourselves of thoughtless and hurtfull actions and remarks?  Thus Imus could only extricate himself of the “abuser” label by not apolgizing, because if you do apologize you are demonstrating that you have the hallmark of a abusive personality.  Yet if he doesn’t apologize he is guilty of denial, which again is a hallmark of the abuser.

So let me get this straight, Imus by insulting the players, abused them?  Imsus by being an irritating foul mouthed moron was abusing everyone he made fun of, or ridiculed on his show?  Oh I like where this is going, only PC lefty “sensitive” humour is legitimate.  I suppose the only group that is left for legitimate humour and ridicule is the “white male in a wife beater”.  He can be protrayed as a ignorant, amoral, unethical, alcoholic, uneducated, idiotic simpleton.  He can be insulted, ridiculed, and disempowered.

The fact is that humour often says more about the comedian than that which is made fun of.  The Imus comment about the playes did not make me see them as cheap whores, but rather told me Imus was an idiot.  These kind of comments say absolutely nothing about the people they are directed at, and only illuminate the character of the speaker.

Sned, I was dealing with the issue of redemption.  To abuse and then apologize for it is classic abuser behavior.  Either you’re an abuser or you’re not.  Abuse is immoral.  People who abuse or otherwise act immorally and then expect to be excused for it because of their “good” deeds, i.e, paying the bill to send kids to camp, are basically sociopaths. Furthermore, we have learned that there is no real “free speech.” Say what you want but be prepared for consequences your words and the sentiment behind them produce, i.e., Imus.  His “free speech” turned out pretty costly, not just to him, but to his victims.

Another note.

I think the press has the Imus issue all wrong. They have made it into a black white issue because it was a derogatory comment about blacks. And that’s not what the issue should be. Fat people don’t have an Al Sharpton. Mentally Ill people don’t have an Jesse Jackson.

If it continues down a black white path then the door is open for the ugly and the weak, the fat, small, skinny, and mentally ill to be trod upon by everyone..as long as they’re not black. We’ll be right back in the proverbial school yard that will ALWAYS have a weakest link to pick on and laugh at.

Don Imus has done tons of good for people of all color. 50% of the kids who go to his camp are Not white..and that says enough for me to know what’s really inside of him. But this issue should not be only about color. Ity should be about dignity.

63962 The Sned.  So, Imus has done many good deeds, therefore he’s excused from acting immorally.  What reasoning!!  That’s roughly equal to the Christian notion of Hitler being forgiven and “saved” on his deathbed if only he truly accepts “Jesus as his personal saviour.”

MY RESPONE
The damage that Don Imus has done has been done with words, and this is a free country with free speech. Therefore according to our own laws he has done no wrong. To compare what he has done with Hitler is insane. Don Imus is a child who has been enabled by everyone that ever appeared on his show and knew who he was and KNEW the rotten things he said. And they said nothing.

Enabled. For a hundred reasons, many of which had to do with the good he did, his influence, etc etc etc. I think he has the power, now that he might realize the effect of his negative self to be part of the dialogue that is being created as a direct result of his actions to stop his kind of behavior at all levels…recording industry etc. (But it also calls for censorship of a kind..which I don;t want to see) If people could only be kind to one another…that’s what everyone has top understand.

No one has to forgive him. Just allow him to get back on the air with the promise to not tear down the weak. If I hear him change…I will forgive him.
But not blindly, and not because he’s had a “Jesus” moment. But because a spoiled kid with a lot of talent might have grown up…and might gain another ten million listeners to do even more good.

A final note: I heard the great Tom Brokaw wimp out by telling and interviewer that he ONCE told Don Imus that he couldn’t say something nasty about a particular politician (who might have been black)  Yet Tom Brokaw was on that show dozens and dozens of times.Apparently accepting all the other crap Imus spewed. For that Tom Brokaw lost big points with me….as has the rest of the Imus community who ran with trails between legs. Only Frank Rich of the NY Times admitted even his own hipocracy as he pointed his finger to the rest of the Imus guests who ran.

#64163 Mrs. G, Please re-read your last paragraph and you will see that you agree with me even though you think you may not.  I may be able to dismiss an unkind word spoken once, but Black women suffer this abuse, sometimes reticently, with regularity, so much so that it’s taken on the identity of a self-fulfilling prophecy, which is why they seem to accept it, until YouTube and the internet got hold of it.  I still say it’s immoral because it’s unacceptable social behavior.

#63999, Mrs. Guthrie, You called it “ignorant” and “upsetting” but say it’s not immoral.  You also believe that, since Black women use NHH’s in reference to themselves, it’s then justifiable that Imus does the same.  It’s this brand of reasoning/rationality, I believe, that has dumbed down moral behavior and “free speech.”  Imus and all of us have now seen there is, in fact, no “free” speech.  Check out p.38 in 4/23 issue of Time mag. essays by Tucker and Dickerson.  I can’t believe that you would not be hurt and outraged if someone referred to your daughter as Imus called Rutgers women—on national radio/t.v., no less.  As for war and Jesus in your comment, I think people are more outraged about that than they are the Imus flap.  I’m equally outraged by both.  In both cases, the victims of immoral behavior are considered “collateral damage” in the course of immoral people fighting their immoral wars for immoral agendas.  If the Bush administration, the Iraqis, alQuada etc. had as much regard for the welfare and lives of the non-combatants as they have for their cause and themselves, the war would be over. If people who perpetrate hate through their thoughts and words, calling it something else in order to justify it, were educated about the damage it does, they’d stop.
One more thing: I’m very suspect of the deep-seated thinking behind that remark.  I think it was REALLY sexist and racist to the very core and the dumbing down of moral thought in this country has caused us to lose sight of that.  Does it matter that we’ve dumbed down?  Only, it seems, if it’s your daughter, your economic status, your job, your religion, your physique, etc, that have been insulted and only if it wasn’t done as entertinment.
Enough!!!

Hi Sned!
I couldn’t agree with you more.

Sned, I think many people did tell him to cool it with the -ist remarks, but they were a major part of his shpiel from his first day on air to his last. I am glad to hear he accomplished some worthwhile things with his bully pulpit, but the truth is that the “bad” side of Don Imus is as much a part of him as the “good”, and you can’t simply separate one from the other.

BTW, you should have noted that Andy Borowitz is a humorist. His book “The Republican Playbook” is a satire on the Rethuglicans and lampoons the child-like Bushie most of all!

Any chance Imus would back Stan D. Garde for War Czar? There’s a legion of ranting anti-War novels and novelists that Garde is keen to stop, a real surge, and as we all know, Anti-War Novels Are Treason:

http://apragmaticpolicy.wordpress.com/2007/04/14/tropetopia-xix-the-pangloss-score-vi-anti-war-novels-are-treason/

63962 The Sned.  So, Imus has done many good deeds, therefore he’s excused from acting immorally.  What reasoning!!  That’s roughly equal to the Christian notion of Hitler being forgiven and “saved” on his deathbed if only he truly accepts “Jesus as his personal saviour.”

I apologize for the mispellings…and especially “deceived” for what should have been deceased in referring to Bishop Patterson,

The writer of this comment obviously has very little knowkledge of Don Imus, and I can guarantee you, that as a listener of the “I” man I do. To be blunt and to the point. Don Imus can be beyond stupid. As was the case with his remarks about the Rutgers team. And his Rutgers comment was not a mistake as he put it. A mistake is 2 + 2=5. Don Imus has been putting the right people down for years. But he has also been putting the worng people down at the same time. And therein is his problem. And he has been surrounded by cowards who didn’t shut him up 20 years ago….not take him off the air. But give him a clue how putting down the mentally ill, fat people, ethnics, people he thinsk are ugly was just plain wrong. And he got his just desserts. But Mr Borowitz has done no better than Don Imus in the above comment.

Don Imus is alsmost siglehandly reponsible for raising the death benefit of soldiers killed in Iraq from $12,500 to $250,000. Now what government would pay a volunterr soldiers wife and kids $12,500 to die for his or her country. OURS. This country did it. With all it politicians and great broadcasters did it. And Don Imus stopped that horrendous policy. Because he had 10,000,000 listeners. Becaue he had contacts. he got it done.

And he started the Ranch for kids with Cancer and spends his vacation time with those kids 10-15 at a time and he and his wife and son are the providers the parents the friends atsc of those kids. And he raised the moeny as well as putting up much of his own money. But the spirits he enlivens comes from his heart and mind not from someoutside source. He didin’t hire others to do the parenting. He does it. Diedre does it.

In the Walter reed scandal he wouldn’t let it go away. And every person whose firing he called for was fired.

And his listeners raised the last ten million dollars for a rehabilitaion center in Texas for wounded soldiers who needed prosthtic devices.

None of the above is small change. And it indicates thatin that stupid head of his was a man capable of feeling and delivering. but every politician and bropadcaster who agreed to apopear on his program was a coward by not telling Don Imus..” I can’t appear oin your show if you keep putting people down who can’t fight back.” That’s the real story.

I have my own issues with Don Imus and attempted to reach him, only to have requests rejected or not passed on. But those of us who listened all had a love some form of love/hate relationship with him. But he had one flaw that no one corrected or would or could correct. Trust me. If Doin Imus were allowed back on the air that crap that he spweed would stop and he’d do even more for this country….He did bring this on himself. He was certainly not a racist if your listened to the show. Two-three weeks ago the wife of the recently deceived Bishop Patterson, a black minister called his show to thank Don for his interest and support OVER THE YEARS for Bishop patterson.  Harold Ford junior who ran for the house or senate, and is black, was being pushed by Don Imus in his election bid (whoch Ford lost) And it goes on an on like that. What happened was Don Imus’s fault..no doubt. I just hope he’s allowed back on the air, to do more good than he has ever done…minus the stupidity or arrogance that got him fired. but the artticle above is just as distasteful as anything Don Imus has ever done,

But at least Mr Borowitz is identified as a Republican and that says more about the content of his article than every word in it. For sure it’s not funny. And for sure the Repubicans allowed the $12,500 death benefit. Didn’t want to appropriate mroe money for the care of the retsurning vets…and got us into a war that is beyond sick.