Arizona, claimed that crime was on the up due to illegals in that state.  However, all the FACTUAL evidence indicates just the opposite.

In fact statistics are clear, nationwide, that adult immigrants commit fewer crimes proportionately than do native born citizens. The numbers are much worse, however, among the children of said immigrants, I guess the kids learn quickly.

Elgorado:

Arizona, claimed that crime was on the up due to illegals in that state.  However, all the FACTUAL evidence indicates just the opposite.

Keep hanging on those Re-thug ideas, like replacing the 14th Amendment.  As dumb as the Dims are, the Hispanic voters in America are rapidly learning who their enemies are, and it ain’t the Dims….

The demonization of illegals is a convenient way to distract the gullible from the real problems besetting this nation and this world. Those who are desperate enough for work to leave their families behind, embark upon a dangerous journey in order to find a few bucks to send back to hungry children, are receiving the brunt of an anger more correctly focused upon the corporations who use these folks as cheap and disposable labor. Further, the focus might also include the reasons why these people cannot find jobs in their own nation.

Scapegoating has always served the ruling powers well, just as in the South where the poor whites were distracted from the injustices commited upon them by assuring them that they were better than the N——s…...

ardee, August 2 at 10:34 pm Link to this comment

Might one assume that, somewhere within this free association diatribe, you are expressing support for the Arizona legislation?
************************************

Which is clearly unconstitutional as well?

How come TD hasn’t picked up that Sen. Kyl and Sen. Graham, both GOPers, are calling for the 14th Amendment to be repealed so that people born in the territory of the United States can be stripped of their citizenship because of who their parents are….btw, this violates ANOTHER clause of the Constitution:  Art 3, sec 3 Par 2
“The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.”

IOW, “Corruption of Blood” (your parentage) can not be used against in a charge of treason, or, by implication, in anything else. So who your parents are doesn’t define your citizenship if you were born here.

Other countries have set up the laws Kyl and Graham want with DISASTROUS results (modern Germany is one, which barred children of Turkish “guest” workers born in Germany from being German—I believe this has been repealed).

call me Roy, August 2 at 10:10 pm

Might one assume that, somewhere within this free association diatribe, you are expressing support for the Arizona legislation?

Barry Barack Hussein Soetoro Obama gave an interview to CBS on Sunday, wherein he attempted to explain his stance against Arizona’s SB 1070 Immigration bill. Still no word on whether or not he’s actually read the bill yet, but based on his inane murmurings, I’d have to go with No. But, to be fair, during the interview he did display a few things that he does quite well: shameless lying and absolute hypocrisy. You see, President Obama had the utter gall to say that we shouldn’t demagogue nor politicize a national problem like immigration reform. No, really. My jaw dropped too and I thought to myself “could he possibly be that shameless?” Apparently, yes: In a CBS interview broadcast Sunday, President Obama slammed approaches to immigration reform he said “demagogue” a “national problem.” He also defended progress in the administration’s suit against Arizona’s SB 1070 immigration law — an action that states that the controversial measure flouts the federal government’s imperative under the ’supremacy’ clause of the constitution.
Does Barry Hussein not know the meaning of the word demagogue? He is the Demagoguer In Chief, for goodness sake. And the entire Democrat party falls in demagogue-y lockstep right behind him. Incessant race card playing? Fear mongering? Sound familiar, President? That comes from you and your fellow Democrats who brand anyone who merely disagrees with you on policy - ever- as racist. You also use demagoguing in tandem with fear to politicize every issue and further your own agendas. Remember what you said about the law when first passed, Mr. President? You tried to tell people that they’d be scooped up and whisked away, for no reason whatsoever, when out getting ice cream with their children.
You allowed a foreign leader to demagogue, denigrate and demonize Arizona from our house floor. Democrats not only allowed it, they applauded it and gave Calderon sycophantic, grand-standing ovations. Once again proving they stand up for anything but America. And it was/is Democrats who are actually wearing demagogue jewelry in the form of Arizona bashing bracelets. It is Democrats, including you, Mr. President, who have made fear mongering hyperbole almost an art form. You demagogue to the point of Godwinning yourselves constantly. Plus, you know, the outright lying as contained in this statement made during your interview today:
“What we can’t do is allow a patchwork of 50 different states, or cities or localities, where anybody wants to make a name for themselves suddenly says, ‘I’m going to be anti-immigrant, and I’m going to try to see if I can solve the problem ourself.’”
No one is anti-immigrant. That is an outright lie. There is a difference between legal immigration and illegal immigration. You sniff haughtily, in your usual holier than thou manner, about icky people “politicizing” issues. Meanwhile, you actually lie in order to politicize. For a Harvard graduate, you don’t have a great grasp of words nor their meaning.
This epitomizes why there truly is no having a dialogue with the left. Intellectual honesty isn’t their strong suit. Of course, this wouldn’t even be an issue if the federal government was doing its job — its primary job, in my opinion — and protecting our borders, not leaving states to resort to trying to do it themselves with far more limited resources. And then suing said States, all while gleefully demonizing them - for passing a law necessitated by the fact that the federal government themselves refused to act - and then feigning righteous indignation over “politicizing” and “demagoguery”.
Before preaching to everyone else, I suggest you learn the meaning of the words and the accusations that you toss about willy nilly. I also suggest Hypocrite, Heal Thyself.

It is a combined effort of Democrats and Republicans
through the years.

Right now, the Democrats have been in control of
congress since 2006 and have had control of congress
and the White House for twenty months and have not
even attempted to address the issues you speak of,
so yes it is the Democrats fauly right now.

Any immigration debate that doesn’t include

restoring Mexican small farmers and American manufacturing is disengenuous, collusion, fabrication,
diversion, and meaningless

There is a lot Americans can learn from our friends
from the South that have been forced into migration
by policy of our government and the Mexican governmetn

They operate very communally, working together to achieve
their ends,  their agruments are silly and usually get
resoved with a bottle of beer.  Everyone has their
specific job and are damn good at it.

They have more culture than us, act smarter, work harder
and are cleaner people.
GET OVER IT AMERICAN DISGUSTING PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT
EVERY WRONG THING THAT IS LAYING OUR PLANET TO WASTE.

rico,, however unimportant, which they are, I put
enough info with the accomplishments, that if you were
really concerned, you could trace,  so why call me a liar?

are you of Cuban decent??

The Mexican immigrants to this town have been a
welcome ingrediant and respected by all.

  They are clean, hard working and abide by the law.
They mind their own business and create jobs.
Their homes and vehicles are the cleanest in the community
They have created no problems here..

What is yours???????????????????????????????????????????

Great post, Ardee!

I don’t agree with your conclusion, more correctly, your opinion of where we should go, but, in this post, it’s clear we probably want nearly the same thing.  I want and HOPE the Dims can be brought around to doing it.  You have, OTOH, the opinion that it’s not possible.

You criticism of the spinelessness and cowardice of the Dims during is Bush years is pretty much the same as mine. It continues to this day.

Please note: I do NOT admire what the GOP has done with its excellent discipline, merely that it has been a strikingly effective tactic, both when they were in power and out of it. 

I just wish the Dims would use the same thing instead of kow-towing to a few swing vote GOPers and DINOs and giving away the farm for the right to plant a “victory garden”!

As I have stated before

the immigration debate is nothing more than a
collusion by both parties to divert attention from
all the events that are destroying our nation and give
talking points , it was the reason for the Arizona law.

the title of this thread is honest in that manner.

IMMIGRATION AS PARTISANSHIP.

Once more into the breach

Inherit The Wind, July 31 at 9:25 am #

I don’t trust, like or respect the Democrats in Congress.  But, as an entity, I HATE the Republican caucuses in the House and Senate because they don’t even PRETEND to have the Nation’s best interest at heart and only live to make the Dims look bad so they can regain power.  NEVER do they put their nation first, even if misguided as to what IS best for the nation.

It seemed fairly easy for the GOP to make the Democrats look bad, perhaps because, at the bedrock of their party’s direction, they are indeed bad.You are absolutely correct in that the GOP puts the moneyed class before the majority, always has in fact. But any careful and dispassionate analysis of your own party shows the same problematic decision making, especially these last two years.

I admire the GOP’s party discipline and wish the Dims would copy it.  But that discipline is aimed totally at stupid, selfish and PROVEN destructive goals.

In the disparate and discordant voices of the Democratic Party one finds no relief from that direction which you correctly ascribe to the GOP. Does it matter how one arrives at the wrong decisions, whether through lock step solidarity or splintered and ineffective lack thereof?

We saw for 8 years what happened when the GOP ran things.  Our freedoms were attacked, we went into 2 wars, our economy was destroyed, our allies became disgusted with us, and the disparity between rich and poor accelerated.

Yet , during those same eight years, democratic legislators failed abysmally to take a stand, any stand, on any of a variety of essential freedoms or horrific decisions. We see the GOP use the threat of filibuster to tie up legislation, nominations, bills of every stripe as well.

Yet when basic liberties were at stake, when lies were told that would inevitably cause us to spend badly needed trillions and result in the tragic deaths of hundreds of thousands, when torture was being committed, and blatantly publicized, when our basic rights were canceled as well, where were the Democrats?

Do we want to go back to THAT?????

We have never left that! Barack Hussein Obama is Bush with a vocabulary and an actual brain. All the sadder….

I trust my words to you, ITW, will be seen as dispassionate and an honest attempt to show you why I, and many others as well, believe that your basic trust in your chosen party will never lead us out of the wilderness.

I think you an honest man and thus respond knowing full well our history of embattled dialogues. If you were a voice for the reformation of your party I would support your intent while explaining that, while such reformation efforts were appreciated and necessary, I felt my efforts were better utilized elsewhere,; namely in the growing of a third party presence to combat the not-different-enough two party system.

But, in the absence of such claims of your intent I must presume you to be disinterested in such actions and satisfied with the status quo, even though you explain your repugnance to it. I have never seen, in your history of support for your party, any claim to reformation, any plan to enact such, a real damn shame and a detriment to my believing in your chosen path, loyalty when blind is not a good thing.

JD:

I spent years building houses, tool belt, hauling ply and 2x12’s, and swinging a 20oz Estwing or a nail gun (still have the Estwing after 35 years—and it’s still a great hammer).  Now I work in A/C at a desk, though 9-5 is rare, but I never forgot what it was like to be standing on top of joists of a two-story, in freezing cold, hauling up 2x12 scabbed hip rafters over 20’ long, one foot on a 2x4 plate, the other on the edge of a joist, hand-over-hand on >100lb lumber.

Been there, done that, got the scars and torn-up joints to show for it.

By Inherit The Wind, July 30 at 5:38 pm #

“I’m talking specifically about the residential construction trades.  When I was in them, 30+ years ago, there were guys who worked and lots of guys who dogged it

———————————————————————————————————————————————————-

Sorry about taking so long to get back to this subject. You’re comment has been nagging at me.

Weighty tool belt firmly attached, while packing ¾ inch tongue and groove plywood across joists or top plates for setting and nailing, or pushing wheelbarrow loads of concrete, finishing concrete, framing walls with a 32 ounce hammer, packing and installing wall board etc., in all kinds of inclement weather, doesn’t lead one to conclude that those lower level participants in the “Residential Construction Trades” are lazy and unproductive. There are those who “dog it” when they can, but the vast majority of workers in the “Residential construction trades,” are aggressively competitive, though it may not seem so from a management perspective.

Hispanics are steady and reliable, while some “whites” and others, may be beset with family difficulties, and or addictions, and resentments that may affect their attendance. My anecdotal experience tells me that these troublesome workers are in the minority, and that their employment will be terminated if they become too problematical.

Anecdotal observations about the “Residential construction trades” don’t provide an accurate picture of working people in the U.S.; I’ll suggest that the conclusions of United Nations researchers provide a more accurate analysis of U.S. workers, and their productivity.

The disparaging of working people by those who suffer from a lucrative, comfy “9 to 5,” in an air conditioned cubicle, irritates me, because I’ve experienced both, and my experiences do not come from reminiscences about experiences between breaks in higher education classes, or the experiences of entitled individuals who learn from the ground up, with a guarantee of advancement regardless of contribution.

Employers always want their employees to be more productive, and their expectations and demands have no limit. My experience is that more productive workers don’t work to please their employers, but that they are more productive out of competitiveness, while reliable employees are are more concerned with pleasing their employers.

I’ve noticed over the course of my working career that an individual’s perceptions of “dogging it” is subjective when considering their own “dogging it” and examples of other people “dogging it.”

I’ll suggest that Spanish speaking Hispanics are good, and more reliable, workers but that their circumstances are a strong influence on their work ethic. I don’t believe that this apparent reality should serve to diminish the contributions of other working people, or to perpetuate elitist myths and false impressions.

http://www.unt.org.mx/inicio.htm

My Spanish, is not that good, however.. Google Translate is a wonderful thing.

I would suggest, a look, to understand that what is happening, and has happened to Mexico, and is happening to this country are a result of the same plutocracy. Their doing the same things to us as they’ve done to Mexico for a long, long time.

Without considering these issues, then immigration reform, always turns into just name calling and labeling.

Instead, by the our people, not just giving away immigration reform, but by getting something in return i.e. reform in Mexico, we could really help Mexico and our own country as well.

Suppose some european lands, whose structures of society hover between an indian one and an ideally idyllic one, begin to remake their societies into even more egalitarian ones, would that not endanger america numero uno more than even iran, russia, and china combined?

And suddenly, america would need saving from a few european lands. Letting such a good example remain, would prod even hobos and homeless people into some action.

All this means that US is pulling our leg about iran. Iran’s structure of society being akin to that of US. Both empires are also extremely cultish to boot! So is all this a brother-sister act? tnx

How many times must america save itself before it is finally saved?

Wait till US must be saved from china or russia if one or both empires would build an idyllicly-structured society.
Now, by turning china, et al, to wastelands, that would be the save of eons. It wouldn’t be anything like saves from c. america, hawaii, puerto rico, apacheland, mexico, grenada, et al.

Right now US is being saved by waging wars-occupations in two dysfuncional empires and in n. america by indigenous immigration into US.

It had been saved from germany by its aggression against it in ‘17 and ‘43. Saved from korea ‘52, but now threatened by it once again.

Iran, of course, threatens not only US but entire christo-talmudic world. But, but, but that darn strait of hormuz is to tight and iran appears able to do some other things.

So saving christo-judean soyuz must wait. Which means, that US thinks it doesn’t need to be saved yet from the newest peril. tnx

I don’t trust, like or respect the Democrats in Congress.  But, as an entity, I HATE the Republican caucuses in the House and Senate because they don’t even PRETEND to have the Nation’s best interest at heart and only live to make the Dims look bad so they can regain power.  NEVER do they put their nation first, even if misguided as to what IS best for the nation.

I admire the GOP’s party discipline and wish the Dims would copy it.  But that discipline is aimed totally at stupid, selfish and PROVEN destructive goals.

We saw for 8 years what happened when the GOP ran things.  Our freedoms were attacked, we went into 2 wars, our economy was destroyed, our allies became disgusted with us, and the disparity between rich and poor accelerated.

Do we want to go back to THAT?????

G.Anderson

It would be a foolish for anyone to leave Costa Rica to come to the United States. Costa Rica is one of the most progressive countries on earth, one of the greenest, more equalized wealth, and one where the population benefits from socialized utilities, and health care.

I read recently that they have just started to privatize, so I am sure things will begin to change once the foreign corporations and financiers move in.

Ofersince72

Are you implying that I get my information from the Main Stream Media? I watch the Sunday morning news shows to see what they are up to, and that’s the only reason I watch. I like to get an understanding of how the majority of nominally political people are being mislead, and under informed.

You keep bombarding me with information I already know. You’re doing so implies that I’m not knowledgeable, but I don’t mind, the information you post can not be posted too often.

How can I defend the Democrats given everything that is currently occurring? The answer is easy, I can’t, nor do I attempt to. It should be clear by now that what I believe is that the Democrats are a lesser evil than the Republicans. Being informed of history, and having observed a long series of events so cruel and demented that words like murderous, insane, vile, horrific, heartless, etc. seem not to have any meaning, and seem to be inadequate when attempting to describe these recent and past events.

Some people care deeply, and others seem to be unconcerned, and they remain unconcerned even when confronted by the undeniable realities. It’s odd that people who are unconcerned seem to see being concerned as a weakness, or a neurosis. Being unconcerned about very real horrendous events strikes me as being a pathology. Will we ever see things change when we are confronted with the reality of unconcerned people whose hearts and minds seem to shut off when confronted by these very real realities. Confronting them with the truth sometimes seems to be futile. 

The Viet Nam War came and went; it didn’t officially end until Democrats in Congress, after a long and bitter factional struggle, finally came to their senses, and cut the funding. People seem to have an awareness of the Iran Contra Scandal, because it involved political issues in this country, but they seem to be less aware of the indescribably cruel events that occurred in Central America, El Salvador and Guatemala specifically. The numbers of deaths in those countries was accentuated by the barbarous cruelty that characterized those events. Many Democrats spoke out against those events and voted to cut funding for our murderous cold blooded cold war allies. The Democrats cut funding for the Contras (Murderous gangsters, Somasistas, drug smugglers, who Reagan referred to as “freedom fighters, the Contras,” but Reagan and his coterie of war criminals, and Republican scoundrels, illegally continued to fund them, which created the Iran Contra Scandal. In addition we were funding a less well known War in Afghanistan. Those we funded because of geopolitical cold war concerns, were also described as freedom fighters, but the freedom they fought for was a strange kind of freedom indeed. Sharia law and brutal civil war between war lords was the freedom that ensued after the Jihadists achieved their holy victory.

The American people were unified in their support of the Desert Storm War in 1991. The only opposition to that War came from the left. That war was executed and advertised as being surgical and without loss of life, but the consequences of that war are now known to those who are informed and those consequences had consequences of their own. When Saddam Hussein said that the Desert Storm War would be the “Mother of all Wars” he was prescient.

Ofersince72 (Cont.)

Having tried to explain my reasoning for preferring the Democrats over and over again, and having no success, I’ll let Robert Scheer state my case for me.

Scheer:

“It took a long time to end Vietnam even after the publication of the Pentagon Papers, what, 3 years later. It doesn’t turn on a dime, but the fact is that the Vietnam War could NOT be defended through the Pentagon Papers. And this latest disclosure doesn’t have the same angle as the Pentagon Papers. it seems to me that the cynicism and corruption that is exposed and that we are being played by Pakistan shamelessly, and our so-called allies turn out to be our enemies and I think this is a very important leak that will give strength to those critical about the war and it is a teaching occasion and will increase enlightenment in the American public, and I think this will hasten our exit.”

Events will lead to our ending the wars, or the wars will continue unabated.

Denying, or ignoring, that the opposition to the Afghanistan War is coming from Democrats, and that that opposition is growing, is a denial of reality. It’s possible that ending the Afghanistan War would lead to a new understanding and a change in future events, it’s a hope, but not a hope beyond the realm of possibility, and this hope is supported by historical events. I would like to see an end to the Afghanistan War and our foreign entanglements today, but it’s not going to happen. I would like to see a public revolt against our insane policies, but the possibility of that happening at the present time seems very remote. If a revolt, political or public, does occur, I’ll join in revolt, but without revolt, and based on historical evidence and an awareness of Republican militarism and heartlessness, I’ll continue to advocate for Democrats over Republicans.

I understand why Mexican’s come here, as do the Guatamalan’s, Costa Rican’s, Peruvian’s, Koreans, Chinese, Russians,..... etc…And I don’t blame them.

And I understand why those in Arizona don’t want to see their cities and towns dominated by drug wars, drug lords, and kidnappings.

The Republicans, create victims, and the Democrats instutionalize that victimization, their party is based on it, just as the Republican party is based on disposseing people of their ability to support themselves fiancially…

The Democrats would bring immigrants here only to victimize them further.

Neither party, wants a solution because they both benefit from the current state of affairs…

The plutocracy wants it to seem this way, because they benefit as well, from convincing the people that there are no solutions. Because they know, that the heart of the problem, is not immigration, it’s them.

The plutocracy controls the government…

But the plutotacy cannot function as a government, so in essence we have no government….

The president is just a figure head.

Instead we have foolish writers like Mr. Robinson, attempting to manipulate people, just as the right has it’s Rush Limbaughs, both are the same…
They don’t offer solutions, instead, they offer name calling, and create more divivisions in the country, which the plutocracy benefits from.

If your still keeping up….......

Here is a today’s headline from Inter Press Service

Report Suggests Correlation’ between U.S. Aid
and Army (colombian) Killings

That is a no brainer though JD, who doesn’t already know
this, but the MSMs sure aren’t out there on this.
Nor is E U G E N E   R O B I N S O N
Pulitzer Journalist.
Yesterday it was Obama Seeks To Expand Weapons Exports

When is enough,  enough for you guys???????????

Just why did black farmers have to fight with
Eric Holder to get the farm subsidy money that they
had been denied, but had won in court.???????????????

The quicker good people like yourself JD,

get this Dem vs Pub out of your mind and start

thinking in terms of RIGHT AND WRONG.

The quicker America will become the place you want to
visualize it.

I don’t care which way you want to spin NAFTA,

Democrat die hard,  I still love you.

  Both parties loved Nafta, Bush I negoched on it,
neocon Clinton signed into law.

Like I have said to you before JD, if you keep listening
to the MSMs , you will not be able to think logically.

  After just being through the Van Jones deal,
(which was another scam),  why would anyone in the
Administration be so quick to pull the plug on an
employee for something that FOX news was “about” to say?

JDmysticDJ, July 30 at 12:57 pm #

“United Nations Report Says Longer Hours Worked, More Achieved Per Hour”
********************************

I’m talking specifically about the residential construction trades.  When I was in them, 30+ years ago, there were guys who worked and lots of guys who dogged it. I never had trouble getting a job because I was known for always showing up, on time, and working hard all day.  But lots of guys didn’t. For every good worker there were usually two lousy ones.

What’s the difference between then and now? There weren’t any Hispanics and few foreign-born in the home-building trade yet. Now they are here and they are pushing the domestic-born workers out.  There’s a reverse racial stereotyping—Bosses ASSUME the American guys (especially the White guys) will be a greater risk of being unreliable than the Hispanic guys.  Why?  Because they were that same risk even before the Hispanic workers showed up!

I worked for one guy around 1981 who had his brother-in-law working for him, driving him nuts.  Dumb, vulgar, obnoxious and lazy—and wouldn’t work on a roof—too scared. Unfortunately, it was his wife’s brother, not his sister’s husband or he could have gotten rid of him (It’s far worse to have your spouse pissed off at you than your sibling!)

Ha, JD, thankyou ,

The Democrat Party knew well before they pulled the
funding to ACORN that the “pimp” scam was a scam>>>>

Yes, the D.C. vote would help the “progressive” vote.
However,  the Democrats aren’t progressive.
They had a filibuster proof Senate, a huge majority in
the House, and a Democrat President , and still found a
way to deny D.C. the right to vote.

  No,  it was the Secretary of Agriculture that prompted
the Sherrod scam.

Because of the destruction of rural Mexico, they are
driven into the cities of Mexico.

So Mexico City….......look at it

Many are driven to the U.S. to work slave labor so they
can EAT. Now good ole Democrats say
“slave Mexicans, I am your friend, and I will defend
your right to your slave crumbs slave Mexicans.”
  This makes the “feel gooders” feel real good about
their Democrat vote since they know otherwise that the
Party just another Party that exports death.
  And the Rethugs use this issue to get their votes too.
For many dumbass Americans , that get their news from the
MSMs, really believe that the slave Mexicans get free
health care and other benifits from the American Public.
  So they tell these constituents
“See, it isn’t us lawmakers that stole all the money from
social security, it is the damn slave Mexicans, and I
will help you drive them out so you can get your
apple picking jobs and your tomato picking jobs and
hedge trimming jobs back, and social security will once
again be solvent as soon as we drive these slaves from
our shores.”  Saying this, they know damn well they are
not going to stop slavery, any more than the Democrats
are not.
And both parties say “As soon as we get this slave labor
deported, there will be millions of jobs galore in this
country making BBBBBB IIIIIII GGGG   BBIIGG $$$$$$$$”.

Ofersince72

Which Party is politicizing race and immigration? Do you think Fox News jumped all over the Sherrod incident, and the non-issue New Black Panther issue, without the intention of creating a racist response?

Don’t you think that DC having the vote would benefit the Democrats?

Fox News raised the Acorn issue, and talked about it for months. The Democrats folded on the Acorn issue as they did with the Sherrod incident, but it was Fox and Breitbart that perpetrated those frauds.

NAFTA was right wing policy, ushered in by Gingrich and turncoat Clinton, who was being led by right-wing, (Current Fox News propagandist,) Dick Morris. Clinton admitted he was wrong, even Greenspan admitted he was wrong, have you seen any of the current Republicans admitting that right-wing policies have been wrong. Some, because they have no choice, will admit that Bush was wrong, but none that I’ve seen, will admit their failed policies were wrong.

The only two people I can think of, at the moment, who are not responsible for Haitian suffering are Amy Goodman and Sean Penn. Have you heard the Republicans crying out for help to Haiti? No, they have been crying about having to provide unemployment benefits, crying about poor Wall Streeters being regulated, crying about the poor treatment BP has received, and their crying out for keeping the Bush tax cuts for the richest Americans.

Evil is not either or, there are varying gradations of evil. The Republicans are at the top of the chart.

Mexico is nearly a failed State for many reasons: NAFTA, plutocratic injustice, failed U.S. Drug Policy and massive illegal drug consumption in the U.S., and more. You can blame Democrats for these problems if you wish, but it is not rational. I have heard nothing of Obama sending mercenaries to Mexico. If the U.S. Government is sending weapons to Mexico, it’s because of misguided attempts to combat drug cartels.

A country that took care of its people? A country that has been under the thumb of the U.S. for HOW LONG?!?!?!?

Excuse me, but a million and a half corn farmers in Mexico lost their jobs due to the importation of cheap industrial American corn. And it’s nice to know I’m not the only one here (ofersince72) who seems aware of what OUR policies have done to Mexico.

Let’s stop using the words Mexican and Hispanic if people don’t understand the following. I’ve looked at these people’s faces and they are NATIVE AMERICANS. Which means THEY WERE HERE LONG BEFORE YOU WERE. Yes, their country was invaded by the Spanish and they speak the language of Spain, but they are Indians. I think the immigrant rights movement would do itself a big favor if this were clarified.

All the problems our country has, and 75-80% of Americans want to lock up people who were here for thousands of years before they were. How nice this is for the banksters and the CEOs as they steal our wealth and leave us homeless and jobless.

Democrats will continue to play the race and
immigration card as their lesser than evil trump.

Neither hold water
D.C. still can’t vote
ACORN is no longer thanks to the Democrat Party.
Mexico is driven more and more to anarchy thanks
to Dem and Pub policy.
Haiti is a Democrat Party disgrace.

Anyone that gets their information from the MSMs

  is functionally illiterate

I respect your opinions very much JD.

I have a grip.  Been having this grip.
I believe all workers in every part of the world given
the same environment work equally. Sadly there are few
things that the U.S. is number one at, and those things
that they are number one at are not to be bragged about,
such as prison population, arms exports, illiteracy,
military budgets, use of energy per capita, (andonandonand

The United States continues policy destroying Mexico,
Obuummmer continues to hire mercenaries in Mexico and
continues to send weaponry to Mexico, and continues not
to address the U.S. drug addition that is fueling much
of Mexico’s anarchy. There is NNNNNOOOOO lesser evil!!!!

Is it the illegality or the Mexican-ness that is being clamped down? There are so many Latino-looking folks here in California - the police would be busy doing little else but interrogating minor offenders for their documentation. I’m French by nationality - but because of my brown eyes-hair olive skin, I get spotted as Mexican. The ethnic repetoire in America is so simple-minded and limited, it makes profiling a bigoted narrow-minded joke. It’s in the same mood as the Patriot Act - an ends-means justification. Trample over civil rights to purge the evil infiltrators. What difference does it make which profile Maybe if they looked Jewish?

Ofersince72

What set you off, again? Is it that you believe American workers are Democrats, or is it that you believe silly United Nations Researchers are Democrats?

Get a grip! The Democratic Party is the least offensive of the two Parties.

And to all the “feel gooder” Democrat supporters
that are fighting for the slave Mexican’s rights for
their slave crums, how disingenuous and shallow.

  Several posters hit it right on.

America has fueled the fire for migration.
Our government , as they are so good at, tore the
fabric of society up in Mexico and then is blaming the
victim.  Now they have to come and work as slaves just
to eat.
  And this makes good talking points for Dems and Pubs,
all manufactured. and neither plan to loose the slave
labor.

You believe that silly United Nations report?
Do you believe U.S. workers are more efficient?
How, and at what? Flipping burgers I guess.

  Like every other piece of garbage Journalism of
Eugene Robinson….It is more politics of divide,
Us democrats are the good guys and those mean spirited
Republicans are the bad guys..Please vote democrat

This is not journalism…......it is WAPO propaganda

I would agree that Hispanic workers have a better work ethic, but let’s not disparage those who work for a living with anecdotal evidence; that’s the job of self-entitled elitists.

GENEVA, Sept. 3, 2007

“U.S. Workers World’s Most Productive”

“United Nations Report Says Longer Hours Worked, More Achieved Per Hour”

I would agree that Hispanic workers have a better work ethic, but let’s not disparage those who work for a living with anecdotal evidence; that’s the job of self-entitled elitists.

GENEVA, Sept. 3, 2007

“U.S. Workers World’s Most Productive”

“United Nations Report Says Longer Hours Worked, More Achieved Per Hour”

Carl:

Do you actually understand the impact of removing 12 million wage-earners who pay rent, utilities and buy food and clothing from the system?

Do you understand that the lettuce and tomatoes in your salad are going to triple in price and that inflation will be wildly set off again as food becomes drastically more expensive?

Are YOU willing to pay for that inflation?

Do you think that unemployed computer programmers and fork-lift operators are going to run to work as braceros several states away?

In this part of the world, the vast majority of workers in residential home construction are Hispanic, and I presume a large number don’t have work visas.  So why do they get jobs when there are unemployed Americans?

Ask any contractor and what he’ll tell is: “I’d hire a Spanish guy over an American just about any day of the week.  The Spanish guy is going to show up every day and work hard all day.  The American guy will show up when he wants and bitch about how hard he’s working while he’s gold-bricking.  Then he’ll get drunk that night and show up hungover the next day—if he shows up at all.  The Spanish guys are just steadier and more reliable.”

Think it’s not true? Check it out!  We’ve been doing a lot of remodeling over the last year and the contractors and their subs have brought in a lot of guys, and most are Hispanic. 

I’ve seen the American guys dog it (one plumber, if his dad isn’t watching him, won’t work past 1:00), but none of the Spanish guys. 

Now, to be fair, a number of the American guys who weren’t the business owners have worked hard, but some have not.  But not one of the Spanish or other foreign guys has EVER dogged it as far as I could see.

You and your tea-bag buddies are trying a band-aid solution of scapegoating illegal workers without addressing the REAL issue of what’s wrong with America.  Going back to Ronald Reagan signing a HUGE tax incentive for American companies to move manufacturing off-shore (in 1982) and costing us 3.5 million jobs (all union, naturally) we’ve been destroying our own economic skeleton.

Illegal workers has been a problem for many decades.  When Woody Guthrie wrote “Deportee” it was about the problem in the late 1940’s.

What has changed since then?

Everything is connected. Please stay connected while i say the following; i know, i know, you ?all have seen this, but forgot to describe it in you posts or did but forgot to post your respective descriptions:

Zunis, hopis, haydas, crees, et al had no concept of owning people, mountains, rivers, land, dogs, buffalos, etcetc.

But ‘great civilizations’ did have the idea and did own people and hunting grounds, rivers, land, dogs.
{single quotes denote false values of words under single quotes]

Egyptians, shemites, greeks, romans, european empires all owned people in various degrees.
So, US had lots of teachers.

Some americans want to own to unknown degrees illegal immigrants.
One does away with ownership of people by people and one solves illegal immigration.

But class one people in US, which owns in part or much other ten classes of americans, most likely would never on own volition abandon such wealth! tnx

The more Mr. Putitzer speaks, the less sense he makes. What was really funny the
other day is when actually he LOST THE ARGUMENT on Civil Rights on Chris
Matthews, against a conservative who successfully argued the unintended
consequences. So, the more he is the spokesperson for the race-baiting, the
more people are seeing it. Not as smart as he thinks.

I have the feeling that, in ten years, the only country calling itself the “United States of America” will be a rump “United States of America”—a shrinking number of states continuing to acknowledge (with varying degrees of willingness) the suzerainty of Washington DC, while other states will have either left the USA or be in open rebellion against Washington.

I hate to think I’ve lived to see the decline and fall of this country, but for better or for worse, “the times, they are a-changin’”, friends. The reaction to Hispanic immigration (legal or not) by a large proportion of the declining white population in this country is just one symptom of the malaise facing this country.

(Full disclosure—I myself am white, but I’m willing to change, as change is inevitable. Those who try to defend the “Status Quo” are idiots, regardless of which side of the political divide they stand on.)

If “Liberals” (What is that anymore?) Really Really supported the poor in Mexico wouldn’t they send books that detailed our revolution and find a way to smuggle them some arms? That’s all the US really makes anymore anyway.

Why should we be the dumping ground for Mexico, or any other countries poor? Isn’t that just prolonging the real problem? They have lots of sun, ocean on both sides, plenty of land to grow their food, minerals, fantastic weather and the entire nation is apparently controlled by 12 or 15 “families”. Really?

Why don’t thousands of Canadians march through the North Dakota border every June, July and August? Could it be that they have figured out something that Mexico has not?

Give a man a fish, or teach him. If we actually helped Mexico turn into a country that took care of its people rather than its rulers the poor wouldn’t have to cross the desert for work. We’d be heroes to many generations of future Mexicans.

It would be one thing if the US had full employment. But it would not be, as Eugene says, “the right thing” to enable the continuing rape of the population of Mexico by a few corrupt authorities. Would it?

Let me add that Mr. Robinson’s call for Democrats to “do the right thing” is valid. Something like 80% of Americans consider illegal immigration a serious problem and want them all deported. However, the Democrats sold out to corporate America a long time ago. So will they side with working Americans and protect them from this invasion, or tell them they are stupid racists who don’t understand the value of mass illegal immigration, which even they can’t explain?

So far, most Dems support old efforts by George W. Bush, and applaud the decision by right-wing Republican Judge Bolton, to encourage even more illegal immigration with another amnesty and refusing to deport illegals. This lack of clarity is why Dems have dropped sharply in the polls. If the Dems came out on the side of workers and said it wants to end all legal work visas to address 20% unemployment, wants to deport all illegals, and wants to put the U.S Army back on the border (where it was until 1945) the Dems would gain seats in November, reduce unemployment, crime, and help save America.

So will Dems “do the right thing” or side with corporate donors as Mr. Robinson suggests?

Here we go again, “truthdig” prints BS from one of America’s leading corporate spokesmen telling workers that the more foreign workers we allow here, the better off they are. I realize that Truthdig needs big corporate sponsors, but reprinting this corporate propaganda is an insult to working Americans.

Mr. Robinson is not a nationally known author because he cares about poor workers and minorities, but because he spins the corporate line. Of course he doesn’t discuss jobs, he says that anyone opposing Corporate efforts to flood the nation with desperate labor to drive down wages further is a RACIST! So shut up!