OzarkMichael,

I understand your anxiety.

Shhhhh.

Be veewwwwy quiet.

cpb is hunting twolls.

“I continue to be an optimist, how about you? “

I’m trying!

Partly in regards to the diatribe below….

I was not aware that this site banned people but I can
certainly see where it may be required.  As a forum,
this site could use some improvement, but it’s not a bad
place.  There are good stories, some interesting
personalities, and more often than not very worthwhile
contributions from and debates among posters.

In some of my posts I have addressed the issue of
internet trolling.  I continue to maintain that it is
important that trolls be called out.  The only forum
that I ever routinely participated in prior to coming to
Truthdig became over-run with and ultimately destroyed
as a result of this type of practice.  It was sad,
pathetic, and I have no doubt that there was intent.

Trolls are like a disease but they are also like
mammalian predators - if they detect fear or smell
blood, they will kick things up a notch.  Some trolls
may simply be folk who are actively disruptive, immature
and prone to slanderous outbursts in real life.  But
some trolls have an agenda, and may or may not be
performing a service for payment.  Even barring any
potential agenda, treating the internet as an excuse to
speak to people in a manner that may get your nose
broken in real life is the height of immaturity and
disrespect.

Should the moderators be paying more attention?  Perhaps
they should.  But calling out inappropriate behavior is
something that anyone can do.  When trolling gets out of
hand, before you know it, all posts are being moderated,
and the quality of the forum goes down, for everyone.

Trolling is disrespectful, immature and disruptive at
the best of times.  It is anathema to civil discourse,
regardless of the heat of the debate, and if it is
allowed to reach a threshold point, it will ultimately
demand some form of control.

9/11 was an inside job.

Nice post PatrickHenry.

Hi Windy!

On 9/11, I was sitting in my office listening to WTOP, the local zionist news radio of Washington when I heard of the 1st plane striking the WTC.  I dismissed it as a cessna with sight seers, happens all the time around here.

When the second plane hit I took notice and when the third plane hit the Pentagon I immediately got on the phone as we had a couple of men in that wedge doing punch list work.

I was closely listening to WTOP when they acknowledged another plane in Pennsylvannia headed for Washington which was being followed by (2) F-16 fighters.
Within 2 minutes they claimed the fighters had shot down the commercial airliner.

Now, before the dust had settled a new ‘official story’ ignoring the reported stories of that day emerged ignoring what I personally heard about the jetliner being shot down or the local NY news story regarding Israelis caught driving an explosive laden van.

Since holding the 9/11 commission, the shortest, least funded investigation which was responsible for ‘the official story’ of a historic world encompassing event, reams of new evidence has emerged. 

The official story stinks and if the U.S. Government lacks the ability to provide the citizens with the unvarnished truth then it is the responsibility of the citizens to work toward that goal.

cpb, September 4 at 10:52 pm

I always embolden a reference to another poster when I have something to say directly to that person.

To battle trolls by becoming one yourself seems a bad path to me, even though I am weak enough to respond to morons like Ill Wind when I should simply ignore him, and apparently his new ally entropy as well.

“The resident lesser flea has seemingly moved from attacking me to attacking cpb who ,in turn, attacks another.”

- Ardee

Not sure why I earn a ‘bold’ in your post Ardee, but for the record, for you and other ‘Diggers’...

I can appreciate the extent to which my Troll hunting might be seen, proverbially, as part of the problem.  I regret any perceived disservice I might cause the genuine ‘Digger’ community.

I have my own faiths and motivations.  I am not simply ‘attacking another’, as it were, I am quite selective (to the extent that even half of the BS can even be kept up with…), and I think anyone who pays attention to my posts won’t readily accuse me of being inconsistent.  One of my faiths is that the majority still have pretty good access to their intrinsic BS detectors. 

Will the internet, with the incredible possibilities its existence represents, further the “advance” of humankind?  Will it be a control mechanism of omnipresent capacity?  Or will it be just another scene in the script of our advancing technology, somehow, boringly when viewed with hindsight, judged benign? 

Trolls are a disease of what you value if you are somewhere in the bell curve of persons who come to a site like this seeking something more genuine than the mainstream offerings.  It isn’t conspiracy anymore to claim that there are organizations, of all types and stripes, that employ people to ‘serf’, and comment, with an agenda.  There are people getting paid to come by your preferred source of primary online info and, as guerilla marketers of disinformation, disrupt any conversation that they might perceive to be speaking to inappropriate conclusions.  They decide what is appropriate of course, and I’m talking about the whole gambit, from your preferred dish detergent to what you should or should not be thinking about in advance of the next election.  Anyone with a modest net-skill-set can reassure themselves easily that I’m not making fastastic claims here, these realities cannot be denied anymore, with any integrity, by invoking the (redefined) invective of “conspiracy theory”. 

Is it the NSA or the FBI? Is it the Lizard people? What about the hotel down the street trying to maintain their 4-star rating?  Is it the local grocery monopoly? A group of angry white homophobic rascists? Is it really all a zionist world plot in action?  Or is it just some angry character with nothing better to do who’s genuinely pissed off with the world because she/he feels so utterly disempowered and has bought into a somewhat disrespectful attitude towards discourse?

The answer to that question is not irrelevant, but I posit that it isn’t the first question we should be asking.  If the internet we want is the one that is advancing human-kind, then we need to understand that it is under attack.  The oft asked question is of course; What can we do?  Ask yourself what it is you would want or expect the internet to be, then let the answer to that question sink in and see what your gut has to say.  I’m not here to tell other people what they should do.  I try to spend sufficient time ignoring the internet, but that is another discussion.

In the meantime, it is open season on trolls so far as I am concerned.

“Waste of time arguing with them.”

- Inheritance in the Wind

Hey Windy!  I think I commented recently, while addressing another troll, that it isn’t uncommon for trolls to accuse ‘the other’ of their own behavior.  No integrity whatsoever there huh? 

Disruption of genuine and intelligent conversation and debate is the motivation of the troll. 

I’m not here to disrupt the conversation at hand, I’m here to call you out on your abuse and bullshit.  Besides, the intelligent conversations take place AROUND YOU!

CDD:
Do something that kills a man’s cow and he’ll sue you.
Kill his sacred cow and you will be subject to the worst abuse imaginable.

Not one word that new troll CPB posted successfully contradicts anything you wrote.  But he sure had a lot of insults ready for you!

The pure logic of why a conspiracy of the nature that the tin-foilers insist on is impossible simply causes their brains to shut off.

NONE of their narrative makes sense, from impossibly complicated and successfully conspiracies by people who couldn’t even hide how they attacked Joe Wilson to having it point to Al Qaeda in Afghanistan so they could have an excuse to attack Iraq!

But it’s a sacred cow that NOBODY in the Islamic world is either smart enough or mean enough to do this, but they sure are in the Christian and Jewish worlds…

Waste of time arguing with them.

CCDillon,

“So, cpb, planes do disintegrate completely upon impact with an immovable object at high speed. Care to dispute anything else I’ve said?”

Bollocks Dillon, so much bollocks.  Amazing the ability to throw out so much blah blah blah and then lay claim to having made some profound proof.  Trolling 101.

Vaporization and disintegration are entirely different, and while you pull out adecodotal examples involving “unrecognizable pieces”, you’ve pulled away from vaporization as a concept I noticed.  Very convenient!

I don’t know what type of engineering you’ve allegedly been practising, but the ‘total disintegration’ claim is as stretched and ridiculous as the vaporization.  You haven’t retreated into safer territory, you’re just walking backwards into more wet paint.

There wasn’t a huge collection of small, unidentifiable anything in that hole in Shanksville.  What Dillon posits here overlooks that fact, again conveniently.  But just for the record let’s look briefly, with some presumption of life experience and common sense on the part of the reader, at this ‘total disintegration’ idea that could possibly produce nothing but unidentifiable bits. 

Planes have been coming down for all kinds of reasons, at lots of different speeds, and at all kinds of angles over the years.  All the major commercial events get investigated and photographed.

“They usually crash at an angle so the impact is less severe…”  LOL Engineer eh?  Yes the impact at an angle would be less severe.  You don’t need engineering training to understand that one!  Says nothing about the ultimate claim though.

So, some idiot has taken control of a large modern airliner and while screaming in a loud voice praising dog to overcome his own fears, he gets the plane into a perfect nosedive and maxes out the throttles.  Perhaps, if said fanatic had as good an understanding as CCDillon about materials, aerodynamics, airframes etc.., he might be imagining in his head the “total disintegration” that he would be causing, even, perhaps, if he could just get it going fast enough (push those throttles again!), maybe he would actually vaporize the whole damn thing!  Wow!  Ambitions on the final moments should be pretty profound don’t you think?

Well the science that Dillon attempts to bring into the discussion for an airframe pushing certain physical limits is misrepresented.

In layman terms, it’s called “breaking up” Dillon.  The wings would be separated from the fuselage most likely, and once the equilibrium of the dive got messed up by the altered aerodynamics, things would start tumbling and busting up in all kinds of chaotically unpredictable ways.  Large portions such as the wing/engine combinations and the fuselage may continue to be broken into smaller portions.  Now smaller parts tumbling..  slowing down, falling to earth, to be discovered and investigated.  Reassembled, ultimately, in some huge warehouse somewhere, not easily, but diligently accomplished, piece by piece, while real engineers and forensic scientists try to figure out what happened.

They walk the ground, collecting evidence, taking pictures, trying not to offend the spirits of the dead when they step over ‘bits and pieces’ of human flesh.

There wasn’t anything in that hole in Shanksville, just a staged event that never took place.  A hole blown out to imply the perfect impact. 

I guess Dillons drivel makes sense in some ways.  He has the gall to think that this can be explained.  He can’t explain an impossible event of course, but he can talk to those that would not otherwise know they are being deceived.  He doesn’t have to actually explain anything, just keep the wool pulled down, over the eyes of.. enough people. 

Lying on this scale?  Superceded in it’s disrespect to the people only by the killing itself.

Those that had the gall to plan the event have something in common with our trolling homeboy Dillon here. 

Over and out.

ardee:

I was at work too when my technician came running into my office to let me know about the first plane, then the second and the two subsequent collapses. Not much work got done that day. I went home early to comfort my wife who was hysterical. We stayed glued to the TV throughout the day and late into the night. We both realized something fundamental had changed that day.

I don’t normally get into conspiracy theories either but cpb had it coming. He’s intolerant of others’ opinions and thinks anyone who disagrees with him is subhuman (a troll). That’s uncalled for on a site where the vast majority of comments are civil and respectful. He went to far and now he can eat his words.

I refuse to get drawn into the debate over the events of 9/11 and just who did it. Conspiracy theory holds no water, attracts far too few and tends to weaken rather than strengthen political action.

I would relate instead my own experience that day. As the owner of a small trucking company at that time specializing in delivery of construction material to job sites both industrial and home I was hard at work. I had heard, while loading my truck for the days work, about the first plane hitting the Tower, and, as a born and bred New Yorker, I knew that air traffic over Manhattan was forbidden.

While driving to the first delivery of the day I was glued to the radio of course. I got to the customers home and the man came rushing out to tell me I had to come in and look at the TV. The couple, originally from India, and I sat through the re-running of the plane hitting the building with a stunned silence frankly.

The women turned to me and noted that they had lived for years with terrorism in their native land, and she said, “now it is your turn”.

Continuing:

As for an airplane not disintegrating when it impacts an immovable object (the ground) at high speed, I offer this website (another 911 debunk site I might point out) and PSA 1771 which crashed into a hillside on December 7, 1987.

http://killtown.911review.org/flight93/crash-comparisons.html#PSA_Flight1771

A gun wielding former employee shot up the plane, forcing the crash. As one investigator commented, there wasn’t a piece of the plane bigger than a hand that was found. It was unrecognizable as an airplane. This was an impact with rocky ground, not the steel skeleton of a building. The speed was higher most likely (near the speed of sound) but it was a much smaller airplane. I’ve flown this plane in the past and it’s a very rugged little aircraft. So, cpb, planes do disintegrate completely upon impact with an immovable object at high speed. Care to dispute anything else I’ve said?

Oh, here’s that Popular Mechanics article I talked about earlier.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842

Pay particular attention to some of the debris field photos. They show parts of a commercial airplane (including one with part of an American Airlines logo on it) ... notice how SMALL they are. That’s called disintegration.

And let’s address the magical 400 mph figure. I went to PilotsFor911Truth to see what they said about airspeeds for the two planes. They said the FAA figures of 430 knots and 510 knots were probably not possible since airframe failure would ensue at those speeds. But, looking at the Boeing V-G diagrams for a 767, one can easily see that an airspeed of 360 knots (414 mph) is not only possible but within the safe operating envelope for that airplane at sea level. Now, I have to assume at this point that the pilots wanted to inflict maximum damage on the buildings and, therefore, would have pushed the engines to their maximum operating thrust prior to impact. Given that the Boeing V-G diagram shows that 360 knots is a normal operating airspeed, I have to assume that the engines could push the airplane to that speed under normal operating conditions (in fact, I would guess there is some excess power available and a competent pilot watches his airspeed gauge to make sure he doesn’t exceed this number under 18K feet). Thus, I am making an educated assumption that the pilots, wishing to inflict maximum damage, would have pushed the airplanes to 360 knots (or higher given they probably didn’t know about the airframe limitations) and came up with the “magic” 400 mph number. Any speed below that level would be stupid ... why hold back and inflict less damage on your target. Seems kind of stupid doesn’t it?

By the way, cpb, what are your qualifications to be making such difficult engineering determinations? Mine are a PhD from Stanford University in engineering and 35 years experience in industry. Please, dazzle us with you worldly qualifications. I’m guessing you don’t have any. So you resort to the “troll of the year” award because you can’t offer any rebuttal to what I said. Afraid to be proven wrong and to look like the simpleton you are? That’s my guess.

cpb throws out the “troll” word. Thank you for proving how degenerate you are. Most air crashes happen as a plane hits the ground at a glancing angle ... usually during takeoff or landing. Thus, the airframe survives because the impact forces are not very high. But fly an airplane into an immovable object (say a tall building) and there is unbelievable energy in the impact. The airplane disintegrates into small pieces ...

As proof, ever see what’s left of a car that hits a large tree at 150 mph? I did once. There wasn’t an identifiable piece left. Just small pieces of sheet metal and parts. Even the engine had been destroyed and was unrecognizable. And the bodies had been torn into small pieces. Now up the speed to over 400 mph and see what happens.

But, as I said in my first post on this thread, there isn’t any reason to “reason” with conspiracy believers. They exist in a world of their own and no amount of facts will convince them otherwise. That’s why an investigation ... independent or not ... will never appease them unless the conclusion matches, verbatim, their beliefs. Anything less and they will start howling like a bunch of spoiled kids that the investigation was a whitewash. Thus, a waste of time. Let the conclusions of the official investigation stand as there will never be an investigation that appeases them.

CCDillon - Troll of the Month Award?

OMG I had no idea someone could be trollish enough to actually rise to support the ‘vaporization’ theory!  Or come out right now and admit you have no clue what you are talking about and I will retract all subsequent accusations that you are actually a troll! 

Attempt to inspire doubt by framing a debate in a manner that won’t easily be resolved in a blog forum - more common troll behavior.

All those crashes that up until now have always involved the hulking remains of a thoroughly effed up airframe, engines, wings, grey matter, suitcases and all, they all happened below 400 mph!!  Check it out!  Google the whole airspeed vs groundseed conspiracy!  The pilots are all lizards!!  I wonder if a dartboard was somehow a part of defining the critical limit at 400mph?

Towards the end of the blah blah..

“If you want to have any credibility with the community at large, you need to get beyond all the crap about the planes. There were 4 of them ... all commercial airliners. There are plenty of questions but I have no doubt about the planes.”

Trolls often get caught doing quantity over quality, they love to throw out complete paragraphs that essentially say nothing.  That one is a fine example.

cpb:

You fly a plane into a building at 400 mph and it “vaporizes”, disintegrating into a million little pieces. People (at least some) have this cartoon idea that a plane hits a building and leaves a pie cutter shape impressed into it. That doesn’t happen in most cases. The wings almost immediately shear off as they impact thick steel girders while the rest of the plane simply falls apart. Airplanes, due to the need for them to remain light, are fairly flimsy structures. Photos from all three venues clearly show fragments of the planes including sheet metal with the company logos visible. It was planes guys ... nothing more. If you want a more definitive discussion, Popular Mechanics did a very good series on the attacks (I don’t have the URL but go to google and it should be there). If you want to have any credibility with the community at large, you need to get beyond all the crap about the planes. There were 4 of them ... all commercial airliners. There are plenty of questions but I have no doubt about the planes.

“At least we can agree that two planes were observed to fly into each main tower.  I, like many, was parked in front of the tv watching live.  I saw the hole in Skanksville and the shots of the Pentagon lawn.  No planes.”

All you need to do is watch the Fox journalist Mark Bernbach doing his report to the Fox news desk in a ‘breaking news’ item on September 11. He watched one of the planes fly over his head as he stood on the street in New York on September 11 and he said: ‘It was definitely not a commercial jetliner. There were no windows. It didn’t look as if it belonged in this part of town.’

You can probably still find video of his report on the internet.

Chris Kinicki, another Fox journalist, was at Shanksville and when the Fox news desk asked him ‘What can you see, Chris?’ he said, ‘Nothing. There’s just this hole in the ground. Some smoke, people walking around and this hole in the ground. There’s nothing to indicate a plane was ever here.’

Echoing his words, a CNN journalist doing a report from the lawn of the Pentagon said ‘You can’t tell a plane was ever here.’

You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time. It seems they forgot that.

At least we can agree that two planes were observed to fly into each main tower.  I, like many, was parked in front of the tv watching live.  I saw the hole in Skanksville and the shots of the Pentagon lawn.  No planes.

Sorry to all you reasonable and rational debaters who just can’t see their way beyond the official story.  No planes.  Planes don’t vaporize, unless you’ve been watching StarTrek episodes in lieu of any real education.

@Christian96

“Notice the two places hit, “Twin Towers” representing “Big Business” and the “Pentagon” representing the military as in military/industrial complex.  The sad part is our leaders didn’t get the message.  They continue to follow the same old tactics.”

Oh, they got the message all right. They fully understood the meaning and reasons. But let’s don’t forget, they aren’t serving YOU, they are serving the cigarette and war industries. They serve capital - never forget that. The purpose of government is to facilitate the flows of capital. G’ment was invented by and for the needs of capital.

diman:

I worked in Los Alamos for several years in the 70s. I’m well aware of the security measures taken then and earlier. The town was locked down 24/7 and you needed passes to leave. Everyone was vetted several times and yet they had at least three scientists who were passing secrets to the Soviets. Even with all that security, they couldn’t control the loose mouths of workers and the political allegiances of all the people working there. And that is the issue about 911, isn’t it? Even with a loyalty oath to the conspiracy, no one could be sure that every conspirator would remain true to the aims they were pursuing. So my statement stands ... there was no conspiracy since not a single loose mouth has flapped nor has anyone appeared with second thoughts about what happened. There was no conspiracy other than those who flew the planes into the towers and the Pentagon (a very small group of people with information carefully compartmentalized until the very last minute). The only possible conspiracy I see is one of silence and ineptitude by those in the government who knew something was coming and did nothing. If you want to spin conspiracy yarns, try looking in that direction. Maybe those neocons who knew intentionally overlooked the threat in the hopes they could use it for their own purposes. That’s as treasonous as actually planning the attack ... don’t you think?

I listen to Limbaugh on occasion just to remind myself of how deranged the lunatic far Right Wing really is. But this anti-American rant equating volunteerism with “socialism” (that abused bogeyman of the Right Wing) and berating the President for promoting it is just outright balderdash.  Americans are at their best when volunteering to help their neighbours, their communities and people in need around the World. Limbaugh should be tried for the traitor he is.

Do you not know with what ineptitude and foolishness the world is ruled?

Ardee—-Your friend from Chicago was absolutely
right.  We did have it coming.  Notice the two
places hit, “Twin Towers” representing “Big Business”
and the “Pentagon” representing the military as in
military/industrial complex.  The sad part is our
leaders didn’t get the message.  They continue to
follow the same old tactics.  Sending businesses
throughout the world trying make their children as
sick and obese as ours, as in sugar laden sodas, candy, fast
foods, etc.  American cigarette companies are trying
to run the health of the world.  Cigarettes have
killed more people than all the wars combined.  It
just takes longer.  If I could just talk to the
leaders of the world I’d say, “Don’t blame all Americans for the ruin inflicted upon your children
by American businesses.  There are Americans like myself who don’t suppport their efforts but there
isn’t much we can do because they have the most powerful military force in the world backing their
unscrupulous worship of money.”

cpb—-Thanks for your compliment.  I’m assuming
FOS means “Full Of Sincerity.”  I’ll appreciate
your vote when I run for President.

I have noted this anecdote before but believe it apropos to this discussion.

Directly after the events of Sept.11 had transpired a question was asked in another forum into which I had been invited ( invitation only); “Why were we attacked?”

The best answer I read came from one who had taught in the Chicago school system for thirty years, had participated in the second Selma to Montgomery march with Dr. King . His answer was simple and direct and as truthful in my opinion as any I have read:

“Because we had it coming”

Pocho, wherever you may be these days, still in retirement in Mexico I hope, I wish you the best.

To C.Curtis.Dillon

Actually the Manhattan Project was as airtight as the security measures taken at the time could provide. Soviets just had a better spy network, that is all. By the way the entire history of mankind is conspiratorial, carefully planned and executed by people in power.

I’m not going to get into the whole conspiracy theory argument here because it’s a waste of time. Conspiracy theories have a life of their own and no amount of arguing or facts can change that. But, for the record, I would like to see an investigation too ... only not to show that there was a conspiracy to destroy the towers. I want an engineering investigation to look at the questions about the way the buildings came down and to put to bed, once and for all, the issues outstanding. My questions are simple ... what forces and destruction was needed to cause the building to fall as they did? How much damage was needed? What unique design characteristics would have contributed to the fall? These are questions that should be answered so we know what not to do in the future.

As for conspiracies ... I offer one simple observation: conspiracies have a tendency to fall apart over time. The more people involved, the faster they come unglued. The magnitude of the conspiracy being pushed here ... literally thousands of people being involved from the government to demolition experts to the transit police to local businessmen ... the list is endless and yet, 10 years after the disaster not a single person has come forward to admit he/she was part of it. Think about that for a minute. Drunk in a bar and boasting about how he planted the explosives? No. A deathbed confession? No. A plea bargain confession? No. A change of heart after killing all those innocent people? No. Nothing. That’s just simply impossible given the nature of the human animal. Someone, somewhere, would have given up the conspiracy in the decade since the disaster. No conspiracy of this size would stand the ensuing 10 years without some cracks appearing. Hell, the most secret project during WWII, the Manhattan project, leaked like a sieve. Stalin was getting weekly reports on the progress. The day Truman announced the successful testing of the bomb, during a conference with Stalin (one day after the test was conducted), he and his advisers weren’t sure Stalin didn’t already know about the outcome. Conspiracies only work if you keep them small and 911 was way too big to be carried off successfully and to keep quiet for so long. No cracks ... no conspiracy.

“So happy to hear that from anyone else. We could have gotten through it with flying colors, our dignity and freedom intact, but for the filthy opportunists who saw it as a crisis to exploit people, and create a security state.

And they haven’t stopped yet.”

- Redwood Guy

I subscribe to the ‘inside job’ theory myself, but sometimes I like to think that maybe it actually was just a collection of 19 really bad dudes and the govt just took complete advantage of the situation.  I would argue that one reality speaks to far greater imperatives but at the end of the day, if peeps came to collectively realise the reality that is implied by the less conspiratorial option, we would still be infinitely better off. 

Wait - I take that back.  What the peeps may or may not be aware of has only limited effect on the powers that be.  Nontheless if the concept of “disaster capitalism” was understood on a more widespread basis, we might all be far better off.

Lamebo comes back into the U.S with his doctor’s Viagra, gets busted and people still pay attention to this guy?  Why?  Oh yeah the outfit that puts him on has a monopoly and there is not much else to listen to in large parts of the country.

@MrFreeze

“Oh no, it would have been “stay calm and carry on.”

So happy to hear that from anyone else. We could have gotten through it with flying colors, our dignity and freedom intact, but for the filthy opportunists who saw it as a crisis to exploit people, and create a security state.

And they haven’t stopped yet.

c96 you are so FOS

“I put you in the same category as Limbaugh on this one. Too caught up in your Right or Left wing extremism to be in touch with the rest of humanity. “

More trolling.  Extrapolate broad generalizations from minimal statements, give it a spin and throw it back.

mrfreeze, redwoodguy, and cpb:

I put you in the same category as Limbaugh on this one. Too caught up in your Right or Left wing extremism to be in touch with the rest of humanity.

@ MrFreeze, RedwoodGuy

I can see where you’re coming from.  I think I will approach that day from another angle.

Given an opportunity I will lend my voice to the chorus calling for truth, and look anyone who wants to know “if I really buy that conspiracy nonsense” right in the eye and ask them if they understand anything about about titanium composists, or the impossibility of such materials vaporizing into thin air.

RedWoodGuy - You’re absolutely correct. I’m afraid I’m going to publicly confess that I wasn’t that shaken by 9/11. Now, 10 long years later after it has been (and is currently being used) by cynical and evil people to grind their agendas, I’m dumbfounded that more Americans don’t feel the way I do. It’s time to “get over it.” Time to move on and quit pretending that “it changed us.” 9/11 triggered an array of truly incompetent and unnecessary things: wars, propaganda,unbridled/irrational nationalism, profiteering, lies, fear-mongering and deceit. It has distracted us from the real work of ceasing our empire building. Instead, it has been the catalyst for even more forays into places we don’t belong.

No, I won’t be “coming together” with my fellow Americans because of 9/11. I won’t be waving my flag. I won’t be honouring the dead. I will spend 1/2 a minute reflecting on how absurd my country has become.

I disagree with much of the comment on this subject.
The way to really honor those whom lost their lives
on 9/11, is to accept that loss as collateral damage
and change the insane Foreign Policy that led to the
attack in all of it’s horror. Stop dictating to other
nations the terms of what they may do and not do. We
can no longer afford Trillion Dollar Wars, either in
treasure or human sacrifice. Now is the time to bring
most of our troops home to really defend this
nation’s shores, change the name of The Defense
Department back to The Department of War as it was
until after WW2, cease spending our national treasure
on Foreign Adventure, take care of those that have
been made Ill from the debris of 9/11, and begin to
create a more Perfect Union right here in our own
backyard.

The 9/11 crime was so overwhelming it affected the freedoms, functions and Governments of many other nations.

As a result, an International investigatory panel needs to be convened and the U.S. Government compelled to give full disclosure of requested evidence without the obstructive ‘national security’ caveat. That rubicon has been crossed.

Lets see all the evidence vetted and any issues surrounding this historic event put to rest.

I think we’ve honored the dead enough times now, and it is time to move on. I means seriously move on. As in, end the terrorism shake downs, the security state, the wars and take the nation back to the pre-9/11 status.

A crime was committed and it was horrible. Let’s not let that crime define the next generation the way it defined this one, or we will be moaning and peeing our pants in 2111 too.

Get over it. The nation’s best and brightest military minds and intelligence officers f*cked up beyond any possible human excuse. Frankly, about 1000 of them should have been taken out and shot. But we didn’t, because God forbid anyone should actually suffer any accountability.

Bin laden won. He won on every possible level, and we lost. But, we can choose to start the game over anew. He cost us our freedom, our economy, and countless young people who lost life and limb in a dumb reflexive response that was utterly ineffective. Stupid us. Shall we remain stupid for eternity, or learn and move on?

I will not be watching any memorial activities, or doing any mourning. It’s been done. It’s over. We have to build something new and something better and we will never do it if we stay anchored to grief and stupidity and incompetence. Yes, every 9/11 memorial activity is anchoring us to the boneheaded incompetence of our military and security apparatus 10 years ago. That is no cause for remembrance. Failure has to be buried at some point and we have to find success in something new.

September 11, 2001 was a bad day. September 11, 2011 is as good a day as you go out and make it.

@ Tony

Nice commentary.

“Despite the extremism of the GOP and the cowardice and
conciliation of the Democrats it is the American people
who make up this nation, not its politicians.”

- Ardee

I concur.  And plead - please stand up and take the
wheel!

“If you want to stop these endless wars, expose the
murderous intentional globalism that is destroying our
country and many others, end the private torture and
massive incarceration of innocents… the only thing that
will do that is the truth.”

- tropicgirl

Please stand up.

When asked what Americans could do to help after the attacks on 9/11, the Bush
White House said “go shopping”.

I still can’t figure out what the hell they meant by that.

As TONY said, “Once you lose the rule of law and the long established process of
investigating crime and bringing criminals to justice, you lose the entire basis of
civilisation.”

Law Professor Barack Obama is covering up these war crimes. The Democrats are
too frightened to open their eyes to the 9/11 hoax. As the truth is suppressed, the
connecting events, if they are not fully disclosed, serve only to confuse us and
leave incomplete stories.

Perhaps the administration wants it that way, but the scientific evidence is too
clear for this charade to stand in perpetutity. One day, we will all know how
Building Seven came down. And Barack Obama will be a confirmed party to the evil
conspiracy that brought it down.

International Hearings on the Events of September 11, 2001

Ryerson University, Toronto, September 8 - 11

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2011/08/09/testify/

No time left for bullshit. Only the truth will set you free.

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2011/07/30/truth-crushed-to-earth-shall-rise/

The best thing you can do for the victims of 911 is to ACKNOWLEDGE WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. They were the victims of our government.

If you want to stop these endless wars, expose the murderous intentional globalism that is destroying our country and many others, end the private torture and massive incarceration of innocents… the only thing that will do that is the truth.

Its time for the press to take responsibility for the sad situation we are in by perpetuating the lies of 911, which are so absolutely obvious to our nation, and even more so around the world.

Anything else is an endorsement of the tyranny. So you really think you would have criticized Hitler? Well, I have news for you.

The examples noted, and many more that go unnoticed, are the reasons I refuse to lose faith in my nation and its people. Despite the extremism of the GOP and the cowardice and conciliation of the Democrats it is the American people who make up this nation, not its politicians.

No one should underestimate the historical fact of ordinary Americans volunteering to help each other, and indeed people across the world in times of crisis. Many thousands of Americans have lost their lives in the service of others, for no other reason than it was the right thing to do, and they did so selflessly.

9/11 however changed everything. Yes, the immediate response to it was noble, and Americans had the sympathy and support of virtually the entire world, for what was a most horrendous crime.

What went wrong then, has resulted in much of those noble American values being destroyed together with the sympathy and support of much of the rest of the world.

Ten years after the event, Americans should reflect on exactly what went wrong following the criminal act of 9/11.

America is a very much poorer place 10 years after - not just financially, but morally too.

When a crime is committed, the most important thing to do, is to investigate it objectively and collect all the available evidence in order to find out who the actual suspects are, and to arrest those suspects and put them on trial in a court of law in order to determine their innocence or guilt.

That process didn’t happen, and the entire World including America has sufferred the most grievous harm directly as a result.

Once you lose, the rule of law and the long established process of investigating crime and bringing criminals to justice, you lose the entire basis of civilisation.

THAT IS WHAT HAS HAPPENNED

If we don’t bring the Criminals to Justice, we will continue our descent into hell and lose all hope of returning to civilisation.

The World looked pretty good on January 1st 2000 - the start of the New Millennium.

We went horrendously wrong, and are very close to losing it all.

Without civilisation, and justice the human race has no future.

Tony