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Hillary Gets Wiki-Served

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Posted on Dec 1, 2010
AP / Evan Vucci

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton gestures while making a statement on the new WikiLeaks release of documents. She spoke Monday at the State Department in Washington.

By Robert Scheer

Hillary Clinton should cut out the whining about what the Obama administration derides as “stolen cables” and confront the unpleasant truths they reveal about the contradictions of U.S. foreign policy and her own troubling performance. As with the earlier batch of WikiLeaks, in this latest release the corruption of our partners in Iraq and Afghanistan stands in full relief, and the net effect of nearly a decade of warfare is recognized as a strengthening of Iran’s influence throughout the region.

Do we as voters not have a need to know that our State Department says that Ahmed Wali Karzai, the half brother of the Afghan leader we are backing and himself the head of government in the most contested province, “is widely understood to be corrupt and a narcotics trafficker”? Or that authorities working with our Drug Enforcement Administration discovered Afghanistan’s then-vice president smuggling $52 million in cash out of his country, a nation that U.S. taxpayers are bankrolling?

In the cable discussing Ahmed Wali Karzai, or AWK as he is called, there is a pithy description of the basic folly of our attempt to control the uncontrollable land of Afghanistan: “The meeting with AWK highlights one of our major challenges in Afghanistan: how to fight corruption and connect the people to their government, when the key government officials are themselves corrupt.”

The cables make a hash of claims that our invasion of Iraq—where al-Qaida could not operate when Saddam Hussein was in power—was helpful in the war on terror. Recall that 15 of the 9/11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia. Yet the WikiLeaks documents reveal, as The New York Times reported, that “Saudi donors remain the chief financiers of Sunni militant groups like Al Qaeda, and the tiny Persian Gulf state of Qatar, a generous host to the American military for years, was the ‘worst in the region’ in counterterrorism efforts, according to a State Department cable last December.”

While the great threat is now said by Clinton’s State Department to emanate from Iran, the cables make clear that Iranian power was much enhanced by the U.S. overthrow of Saddam, who had fought a long, bloody war against the ayatollahs. The result of our invasion is an Iraqi government run by Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, described in the cables as being much under the influence of Iran, which orchestrated his deal with the Iranian-backed Sadrists that kept him in power. The cables report King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia dismissing Maliki as no more than an “Iranian agent.”

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This material refutes the stated anti-terrorist purposes of the two wars we are fighting, and that is the prime reason it is classified. If any of the information was so sensitive, why was none of it labeled “top secret” as is the practice with content that would risk our nation’s security? And why was this vast trove placed in computer systems to which low-ranking personnel had access? The real problem with the release of the dispatches, particularly the kind labeled “noforn,” meaning it shouldn’t be shared with foreign governments, is that it is politically embarrassing—which is why we, the public, have a right to view it. That is certainly the case with the revelation that Secretary Clinton destroyed the once-sacred line between the legitimate diplomat deserving of universal protection and the spies that governments could be justified in arresting.

Instead of disparaging the motives of the leakers, Hillary Clinton should offer a forthright explanation of why she continued the practice of Condoleezza Rice, her predecessor as secretary of state, of using American diplomats to spy on their colleagues working at the United Nations. Why did she issue a specific directive ordering U.S. diplomats to collect biometric information on U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and many of his colleagues?

As the respected British newspaper The Guardian, which obtained the WikiLeaks cables, said in summarizing the matter: “A classified directive which appears to blur the line between diplomacy and spying was issued to US diplomats under Hillary Clinton’s name in July 2009, demanding forensic technical details about the communications system used by top UN officials, including passwords and personal encryption keys used in private and commercial networks for official communications.”

The Guardian pointed out that the Clinton directive violates the language of the original U.N. convention, which reads: “The premises of the United Nations shall be inviolable.” The spying effort derived from concern that U.N. rapporteurs might unearth embarrassing details about the U.S. treatment of prisoners in Guantánamo as well as in Iraq and Afghanistan. One of the directives demanded “biographic and biometric” information on Dr. Margaret Chan, the director of the World Health Organization, as well as details of her personality and management style. Maybe she’s hiding bin Laden in her U.N. office.

Click here to check out Robert Scheer’s new book,
“The Great American Stickup: How Reagan Republicans and Clinton Democrats Enriched Wall Street While Mugging Main Street.”


Keep up with Robert Scheer’s latest columns, interviews, tour dates and more at www.truthdig.com/robert_scheer

 

Click here to check out Robert Scheer’s book,
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LocalHero's avatar

By LocalHero, December 29, 2010 at 1:44 pm Link to this comment

I knew I could locate more dumb questions. It wasn’t surprising who they came from (GRYM)...

“So you’re an anarchist?” 

Absolutely.

“You encourage the demise of the current global system?” 

Absolutely.

“You encourage global suffrage, illness, starvation and the potential death of tens of millions of human beings…”

This is what we have now, moron.

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LocalHero's avatar

By LocalHero, December 29, 2010 at 1:27 pm Link to this comment

From Marshall…

Do you believe the US has the right to any classified secrets whatsoever? 

NO!

Or do you simply dislike the US so completely that you’d prefer it crumble altogether?

Yes!

Got any more dumb questions?

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LocalHero's avatar

By LocalHero, December 29, 2010 at 1:19 pm Link to this comment

Oh my gosh. Of course Ahmed Wali Karzai “is widely understood to be corrupt and a narcotics trafficker”?

He’s employed by the CIA!

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BR549's avatar

By BR549, December 29, 2010 at 10:36 am Link to this comment

Marshall, December 29 at 7:18 am
“If you believe the US (or any country) has the right to keep state secrets, then you don’t believe in complete transparency; hence, you can’t very well support Assange who does.”

There is this magical line of functional transparency. The problem WE as Americans have is that members of our own government are abusing that right to privacy to cover their own illicit behavior and the behaviors of those before them. It’s like a family of dysfunctional people; Dad’s an abusive hard core alcoholic, Mom is in a perpetual state of denial, puts make-up over her bruises, and keeps saying that he’s just a social drinker, Junior is secretly selling pot at the high school, Sis is engaging in promiscuous behavior, and little ADHD Joey is doing temper tantrums as he unconsciously acts out all the twisted lies in his family. If any one member of the family tried to step out of that rat-race and get help for themselves, they’d be chastised for upsetting the apple cart. Everything was just fine before that person made the cart teeter, and rather than stop and repair the cart to make it more stable, every day is spent constantly waiting for the inevitable, when that cart finally collapses. That’s where the US is today; no healthy dialogue, no healing, and absolutely no attempt to uncover the truth about anything.

People have a right to protect that which is rightfully theirs, bank accounts, savings, possessions, but not what doesn’t belong to them. Just because Britain long ago made it a science to steal from others and call some remote island a possession doesn’t mean it was ever theirs to make that decision about. Diego Garcia is one example, and the US has only exacerbated the problem by sending its population to Madagascar so we could have a military base there from which to further “rule the planet”. We lost any right to transparency in Diego Garcia when we allowed its population to be relocated. We may have earned the right to transparency during the Manhattan Project, but we lost that right once Truman used the bomb simply to show Russia that we had it and would use it on a civilian population.

I would like to think that Assange’s motives were pure in his decision to release the documents, and that he wasn’t knowingly ramping up some globalist timetable under a bribe. I still choose to believe in Assange until I get information otherwise. What we are finding out in these leaks is that the information Hillary so adamantly needs to safeguard has more to do with our corrupt and deceitful behavior in our taking from others what was rightfully theirs. What better place for Hillary to stop and be able to look into her own mirror.

I hoped I explained myself well enough. Sorry if I came down on you too hard previously. I think we’re all passionate about our ideals and this keyboard anonymity thing sometimes leads us toward less civility. My bad.

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By Marshall, December 29, 2010 at 2:18 am Link to this comment

By BR549, December 29 at 3:54 am Link to this comment

You didn’t answer my question BR.  If you believe the US (or any country) has the
right to keep state secrets, then you don’t believe in complete transparency;
hence, you can’t very well support Assange who does.

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BR549's avatar

By BR549, December 28, 2010 at 10:54 pm Link to this comment

Marshall, December 29 at 2:27 am
“Do you believe the US has the right to any classified secrets whatsoever?  Or do you simply dislike the US so completely that you’d prefer it crumble altogether?”

Quaint little trick; why is it that people try to equate the right to some semblance of legitimate boundaries with outright lying to justify murder, rape, and stealing? Why is that? You’re OK then with the lies told to the American public about the Gulf of Tonkin, that 58,000+ died just on our side alone, and that as many mothers and fathers cried for years knowing that their beloved boys would not be coming home. All Halliburton had to do was sink its ugly claws into our legislature to safeguard its Tonkin operations and you could sleep safe at night knowing you didn’t have to pay the exorbitant price of $1.00 a gallon for gasoline back then.

The total number of dead there was in the millions, but I guess as long as we Americans could sit in our Barco-loungers with a beer and root for some stupid football team, life was good. That wasn’t the government I was voting for back then. When the Pentagon Papers were released, it woke the American people up to what was “really” happening and why our children were being sent home in body bags. People then got up the next morning to look in the mirror and they didn’t like what they saw.

The issue really isn’t about secrecy; it’s about lying, stealing, and corruption. While we could have a policy of walking softly and carrying a big stick, that doesn’t mean that other countries have a right to know how much armament we have on our soil, but let’s face it, if we found out that another country was caching weapons here in the US, you’d be hopping up and down demanding that we learn the whole truth about it. Well, life on this planet is a two-way street. Again, we reap what we sow. If people are so myopic that they cannot see even that simple issue, God help them when their world comes crashing in on them.

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By Marshall, December 28, 2010 at 9:27 pm Link to this comment

By BR549, December 28 at 12:25 am Link to this comment

Do you believe the US has the right to any classified secrets whatsoever?  Or do
you simply dislike the US so completely that you’d prefer it crumble altogether?

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drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, December 28, 2010 at 5:32 am Link to this comment

Anyway, the persons whose lives were placed at stake, were the persons who behaved like Americans, and released the information.  Take Mr. Manning and Mr. Assange, who regardless of nationality, behaved like Americans behave, and published accurate, behind the scenes information.  Since they are not top-level insiders, like Wm. Colby, former CIA director, Ben Rich, former Lockheed Skunk Works director, and William Pawelec, Air Force computer specialist, they do not receive an injection of brain-tissue-cancer, which results in their death within weeks.  They are subjected to torture in prison and social torture in the press.  While types such as “Axis Hilly” continue their evil misdeeds, continuing to disinform the world, while verbally demeaning the genuine HERO-types.

The heinous traitors of the U.S.A., who use phony phrases, “- - placing lives at stake-” and bogus news, “- intelligence sources report possible attacks on U.S. cities- ” to disguise their dishonesty and shield their treasonous activities.  They continue their CIA-type, “disinformation program” behavior, trying to frighten Americans and the western world into capitulating to the “powerholics,” who are also murdering Americans and the western-world citizenry via their pharmaceutical and chemical frauds.

The livestock-strain of MRSA (ST398) has spread across Europe, Canada and the U.S. and the human strain of MRSA, USA300, kills more annually than AIDS.  The injection of antibiotics into penned-up animals, which never see the outside of a barn, has resulted in various, antibiotic-resistant strains that are hardly controllable.  ESBL-producing E. Coli are resistant to penicillins and cephalosporins, and are the newer type of the E.Coli that was discovered in U.S. hospitals in the 1980s.  Since NAZI-types administer the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, after the Donald Rumsfeld takeover, 1981, with his MD pimp, little protection for the citizenry can be expected. 

The NAZI orientation of the CIA included Dr. Josef Mengele, who was also secreted into the U.S.,  and who introduced organ-transplantation techniques.  Techniques which he, the NAZI “angel of death” originated in death stalags in Germany, via torture of prisoners.  A pseudo-branch in the AMA, similar to fraudulent “oncology” has been established, for techniques that provide a profit and entertainment for the organ-transplanters.  These unnatural techniques are favored, while NUTRITION and healthy behaviors are suppressed.  The fifteen-year-old book by Dr. Derrick Lonsdale, “Why I Left Orthodox Medicine,” is more applicable today than when originally published.

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BR549's avatar

By BR549, December 27, 2010 at 7:25 pm Link to this comment

By Marshall, December 27 at 10:24 pm
” - those issues are real because people’s lives are at stake.  It’s also the principal that if a nation can’t keep its secrets, it can’t be trusted to keep the secrets of others and this directly affects our ability to gather crucial intelligence.”

How about the millions of lives in Viet Nam that were lost because Halliburton’s drilling operations in the Gulf of Tonkin were being threatened? What about the millions of dead Iraqis and the many Afghanis who were the victims of US corporate greed? Lives at stake?

With respect to out own foreign policy, we reap what we sow. If we have people dying as a result, it is because of our own corruption and avarice.

You might want to think about getting that moral compass adjusted.

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By Marshall, December 27, 2010 at 5:24 pm Link to this comment

By BR549, December 6 at 3:23 pm Link to this comment

“Are we supposed to believe, then, if we were being that “transparent”, that Hillary
is just using this opportunity to grandstand over some trumped up National
Security issues?”

No - those issues are real because people’s lives are at stake.  It’s also the
principal that if a nation can’t keep its secrets, it can’t be trusted to keep the
secrets of others and this directly affects our ability to gather crucial intelligence.

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BR549's avatar

By BR549, December 7, 2010 at 12:18 pm Link to this comment

Maxim et al,

All this back and forth spying and distrust and always feeling the need to look over one’s shoulder reminds me of the energy that gets wasted when someone has an autoimmune disease. Instead of feeling connected to their host body and putting forth their energies toward a common goal of a healthy body, one or more groups of cells or organs become disenfranchised and disconnected from the host body, and ultimately adversarily poised to take out what it perceives to be the offending cells, even if it includes a healthy part of the host body. In this case, the targeted cells happen to belong to other equally important cells, but the disconnection and paranoia level reaches a point where appropriate immune recognition fails and everyone becomes a terrorist target, so to speak.

The only direction Bush, Obama, and this dysfunctional NWO are taking humanity is down a path of self destruction, ..... with them included, but they obviously haven’t figured that out yet. We have reached a stage of human consciousness where no one can be safe unless we are all safe and that means we have to trust each other. When we say we can’t trust someone else, what we are really saying is that we don’t trust ourselves to feel safe in that person’s presence. We have a ways to go yet.

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By Maxim, December 7, 2010 at 11:21 am Link to this comment

Brussels 7th Dec 2010
Sorry but I am a bit late for R.Scheer’s excellent paper on Calamity Hillary.
He asks (2nd para) if it interesting for the average citizen to learn that dear (expensive) Pdt Karzaï‘s brother is a scoundrel ? Of course it does as it is important to know that the beneficiaries of our liberalities are just a gang of crooks for whom we spend huge amounts of money and have thousands of our men killed or maimed.
2)” instructions given by Condolenza Rice to U.S diplomats to spy on their U.N colleagues. “
Frankly speaking, may be was the former regime of dear G.W.Bush intending to eliminate Bank-i-Moon with a “nice cup of thea” delicately laced with polonium-210.This might look childish but in fact, not more than this bizarre directive. We can see how the U.S really trust their honoured U.N equals when they have so many other opportunities to gather such simple information. In the United States, there are some 800.000 civil servants and contractors distributed in thousands of “agencies” within the frames of the National Security Agency . It is a typical syndrome of spy-mania.
With my best regards.
Maxim

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Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, December 7, 2010 at 7:52 am Link to this comment

gerard, - “Please try to understand what that statement means”

-

You obviously expend a great deal of energy concerning yourself with what people think of you.  Might this be the reason your positions change with such breakneck speed?

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By Inherit The Wind, December 6, 2010 at 11:28 pm Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, December 6 at 7:58 pm Link to this comment

ITW - “The Government exists for OUR sake, we don’t exist for its sake.  In theory, it BELONGS to us, to me, to you, to Leefeller, et al.  We don’t belong to it.”

-

I got that far before I stopped reading. 
*********************

Naturally. Such an idea clearly offends you.  You “demand” an explanation, then don’t read it because it challenges all your phony premises you try to fake us out with.

But don’t worry…there are far more obnoxious posters than you today.  I can think of two: a “Brother and Sister in hatred” racism, and anti-semitism.

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By gerard, December 6, 2010 at 9:03 pm Link to this comment

John Naughten, in the London Guardian, 12/6:
  Head—“LIVE WITH THE WIKILEAKABLE WORLD OR SHUT DOWN THE NET. iT’S YOUR CHOICE.”

  Subhead—“Western political elites obfuscate, lie and bluster—and when the veil of secrecy is lifted, they try to kill the essenger.”

  From the body of the article:  “Consider, for instance, how the views of the US administration have changed in just a year. On 21 January, secretary of state Hillary Clinton made a landmark speech about internet freedom, in Washington DC, which many people welcomed and most interpreted as a rebuke to China for its alleged cyberattack on Google. ‘Information has never been so free,’ declared Clinton. ‘Even in authoritarian countries, information networks are helping people discover new facts and making governments more accountable.’”

  “She went on to relate how, during his visit to China in November 2009, Barack Obama had “defended the right of people to freely access information, and said that the more freely information flows the stronger societies become. He spoke about how access to information helps citizens to hold their governments accountable, generates new ideas, and encourages creativity.” Given what we now know, that Clinton speech reads like a satirical masterpiece.”

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By FRTothus, December 6, 2010 at 8:33 pm Link to this comment

The US is spoiling for yet another war. We will go
down afire.  I will allow that moral questions do not
concern the dollars-and-cents US, Inc.  Still, for
moral reasons, I hope the US fails miserably in its
quest control the opium and the oil in its hubristic
attempt to monopolize those prizes, as it does
everything else, not by diplomacy, but by brute
force.  US policy turns Clausewitz on his feet—
Diplomacy is war by other means.  Striking that
people will fight and die for “from each, according
to her ability, to each, according to her need”, but
you have pay and coerce people to fight for
capitalism, even those that believe the lies of We
the People and who our spineless leaders say who our
enemies are, momma’s boy Obama no exception. 

I’m surprised the learned economists aren’t chipping
in about the cross-over point in US discretionary
spending vis a vis military spending.  Notice it’s
not in the news.  The 2 main items on the
discretionary budget (the money that doesn’t service
the debt) are Pentagon et al spending, and Social
Security.  The sacred cow of military spending
(scared yet?) politely ignored, as ever.  Perhaps it
is because our schools train economists and such like
to think a certain, worm-like way, with dogmatic
blinders so the rules get obedient workers.  Perhaps
if we had historians interviewed, we would learn
something about how empires collapse, and how it
isn’t slow and measured, and what happens when that
cross-over point mentioned above is reached, a tell-
tale sign of bad weather.  China has been reducing
its exposure to US dollars over the past several
months.  They know that all we’ve just borrowed
produced nothing.  It paid off speculators who
produced nothing of value, and the Europeans are
doing the same, with their failing (for the same
reasons) euros.  No real investment has taken place
in the US.  This cross-over point means that the US,
if it means to keep servicing its growing debt by
borrowing, must treat the US citizenry as the IMF
treats any borrower.  Turn from domestic needs to
export-driven, low wage production and domestic
service jobs without pensions or hope of benefits to
pay the interest on the growing debt. (1)

People are angry at being lied to for so long and
frightened at every opportunity by every
administration in memory, at being compromised and
taken advantage of.  They’ve seen real wages
stagnate, corporate profits soar, and their money
used to bail the wealthiest out, we are told, for
“jobs” they always promise and NEVER deliver. Forget
pensions.  Forget a decent wage. Forget security. The
poor must be punished, watched and inspected, the
rich ennobled and protected and excused.  No wonder
you have to get military recruits young, use a
poverty draft!  Who would die for the House of
Morgan?  Telling them lies they will believe is what
politics is all about.

(1) See Niall Fergusson’s latest lecture at ForaTV

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BR549's avatar

By BR549, December 6, 2010 at 8:27 pm Link to this comment

GRYM,
Still reaching I see. No one gives a rat’s pitooty about Assange or Manning, although I, personally, found it admirable if it were to be found that they did, indeed, do it with noble intent. And even if it were otherwise ...... SO WHAT?

The point is not that Assange and Manning leaked the files, but that the files are showing the American public and the world just how ugly the truth can be after it has been allowed to intentionally fester. I guess you either missed that part, since you don’t seem to actually be reading much of what other people have to say, OR you did manage to read it but you’re still so caught up with the sensationalism of the leak itself that you totally missed the larger philosophical issue.

Still hadn’t read Evans’ piece, have ya?  I kinda guessed not.

As I said, you’ve got another 14 days until the next full moon. Try not to bother the customers.

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By gerard, December 6, 2010 at 8:23 pm Link to this comment

GRYM:  You say:  “It’s not possible for me to care any less how many disagree.”

Please try to understand what that statement means:
  It means you will never change your mind, no matter
  how many people prove you are wrong.
  It means that you are 100% convinced that you
  are sure that you have “the truth, the whole
  truth and nothing but the truth” inside your
  one and only, particular, limited skull.
  It means you can’t allow yourself to learn  
  anything new, ever.
  It means you don’t realize that such a conditioin is utterly and entirely impossible for any human being. So long as you live, you are sure to be faced from time to time with an urgent inner call to open your eyes and ears for something you never thought of before.  It will pop up—even maybe a completely spontaneous idea enclosed right there in what you thought was your closed, settled mind.  You just never recognized it before. It will pop up and it will throw you for a loop and, on second thought, will force you to reshuffle the entire deck of cards you thought you had perfectly arranged.  You life will never be the same.  Happy birthday!

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Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, December 6, 2010 at 6:46 pm Link to this comment

BR549, - How many responses from others does it take for you to get the point of the conversation?

-

Great question.  And on this subject I refuse to be polite.

It’s not possible for me to care any less how many disagree.  I care even less how you and others attempt to justify yourselves on this subject.  I begin seeing bullshit I stop reading.

You either believe, or you do not.  Is private information private?  Or is it not?  This is the subject, Mo’ ron.  Not your notion of who Julian Assange is or what his goals are. - Which you appear to know nearly nothing about.

The U.S. government classifies far too much in my opinion.  But that is not the subject when the context is PFC. Manning and Assange.

Now lend me your SSN.  I’ll post your private information for you.

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By gerard, December 6, 2010 at 6:36 pm Link to this comment

Update:

from Heather Broooke, London Guardian, today:
“WikiLeaks: The revolution has begun and it will be digitalized.”
  “We are at a pivotal moment where the visionaries at the vanguard of a global digital age are clashing with those who are desperate to control what we know. WikiLeaks is the guerrilla front in a global movement for greater transparency and participation. There are projects like Ushahidi that use social networking to create maps where locals can report incidents of violence that challenge the official version of events. There are activists seeking to free official data so that citizens can see, for example, government spending in detail.

Ironically, the US state department has been one of the biggest cheerleaders for technical innovation as a means of bringing democracy to places like Iran and China. President Obama has urged repressive regimes to stop censoring the internet, yet a bill before Congress would allow the attorney general to create a blacklist of websites. Is robust democracy only good when it’s not at home?

It used to be that a leader controlled citizens by controlling information. Now it’s harder than ever for the powerful to control what people read, see and hear. Technology gives people the ability to band together and challenge authority. The powerful have long spied on citizens (surveillance) as a means of control, now citizens are turning their collected eyes back upon the powerful (sousveillance).

This is a revolution, and all revolutions create fear and uncertainty. Will we move to a New Information Enlightenment or will the backlash from those who seek to maintain control no matter the cost lead us to a new totalitarianism? What happens in the next five years will define the future of democracy for the next century, so it would be well if our leaders responded to the current challenge with an eye on the future.”

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, December 6, 2010 at 5:09 pm Link to this comment

Talking to the hand seems a waste of time, unless one likes to listen to themselves. GRYM has never (an absolutism here) far as I have avoided to observe, answered anyone else’s questions, but I do know he has never answered any of mine.

You know truth is not an option for many people and I suspect I know who those people may be!

Knowing if the Wiki Leakes are the truth seems to be in the mind or mindlessness of beholder, but from the overall smokescreen I am observing, these leaks may be more truth than one may suspect.  On the other hand they could be a counter, counter of the counter un-intelligence and leaked on purpose to take our eyes off another ball?

If history is true, this is what leaders in power do, they make money and war and feed illusions as facts. So as usual we find the masses do the dieing for them, nothing has changed since the introduction of man, except now we seem to have a much higher incidence of morons, ....teabags included.

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BR549's avatar

By BR549, December 6, 2010 at 4:28 pm Link to this comment

GRYM,
How many responses from others does it take for you to get the point of the conversation? It seems like one of those “how many xxxxx does it take to change a light bulb” jokes, and you’re holding the lightbulb getting spun around in circles.

If you didn’t bother to read my posts, why the hell bother to pretend to put forth a meaningful response? Since you aren’t in the habit of actually reading up on the issue, yet seem to feel qualified in commenting on it, I guess you hadn’t seen the editorial by Harold Evans in the Financial Times on Wiki-leaks.

You’ve got another 14 days before the next full moon. Try to contain yourself until then.

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sallysense's avatar

By sallysense, December 6, 2010 at 4:20 pm Link to this comment

hiya again go right young man’n'all!... and regarding your post…

...

((sallysense, - “have you even read these cables for yourself ?!...”

Yes.  A good deal of them.  Just as I have read and studied each and every U.N. Weapons Inspection report concerning Iraq and every U.N. resolution concerning Afghanistan over the previous thirty (30) years.

Now if would please share with the group which WikiLeak “Breaking News” you were not already aware of?  I think your answer would be illustrative.))

...

had answered that question in my previous post… didn’t ya see it ?... “these documents reiterate what goes on behind the scenes in losses of human life and resources due to power plays based mainly on illusion!”...

and gee though… do you realize that with all the reading and studying behind you… your post only contains an answer for 1 question out of 8 ?!...

so do you prefer questions that your memory can easily answer… rather than questions that require you to think on your own ?... (and hence that 1 question was easy enough and the rest were too hard ?)...

brings to mind how the big shots want us to overlook the things that they can’t conveniently account for… for why should they have to deal with earnest efforts of thinking-on-their-own when they can simply disregard something instead ?!...  (like for instance… losses of human lives and resources and more!)...

well anyway… here’s that post again… (minus the 1 answered question… and if you think that the additional questions above require too much of someone thinking on their very own… you can act like the big shots and disregard them if open-minded earnest contemplation isn’t part of your plans either)...

...

““hiya go right young man’n'all!... and in regards to that question you asked…

these documents reiterate what goes on behind the scenes in losses of human life and resources due to power plays based mainly on illusion!...

are you too selfish to care about the real human lives and resources being wasted away day after day ?!... or is that ya just don’t know any better ?...

and what kind of deluded state-of-okay do you sit back in ?!... accepting poor excuses spread by others to smooth over injustices!...

as if you can’t even recognize the camouflage outfits that big shots use to dress up unsound reasons in!... hoping to alter their appearance enough to make them look good enough for the masses to swallow up!...

and then you pass those reasons onto others!... like some kinda mental conveyor belt whose only job is to ship and receive thoughts already conceived!... and not hafta think on your own anymore!...

it’s almost as though the contemplative process in your own mind has been replaced with super-automated thought-processors made by big shot companies!... wanting you to think the way they want you to think!... rather than resorting to your own in-born thinking from scratch!...

or do you conveniently resort to borrowing generic conclusions from smart remarks ?!... easily inserting them into parts of your speech ?!... oblivious to what they actually say!... but ultimately enjoying another leisurely drive as you feel the breezes that their wheels seem to create as they cruise through your ego!...

don’t ya care about all the death and destruction and waste that’s going on day in and day out ?!...

well do ya or don’t ya ?!... 

the best of wishes’n'ways’n'todays for the sake of saving human lives and resources!”“... smile

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By Go Right Young Man, December 6, 2010 at 2:58 pm Link to this comment

ITW - “The Government exists for OUR sake, we don’t exist for its sake.  In theory, it BELONGS to us, to me, to you, to Leefeller, et al.  We don’t belong to it.”

-

I got that far before I stopped reading.  You’re a waste of time today.

You DO know you are full of sh*t, yes?  Try being consistent in your ethics and morals.  I’ll go back to reading your full posts.

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By Inherit The Wind, December 6, 2010 at 2:48 pm Link to this comment

ITW, - “Of course, to GRYMey, there’s no difference between your personal and private information and government information.”

-

Absolutely correct.  You either believe in what you demand of others or you do not.
****************

If you TRULY believe that our government is entitled to the same privacy as we, the people, the individuals that share in the great Contract, then it is clear as I’ve long suspected, that you do not understand our Constitution, do not understand the Contract it represents, nor actually believe in it.

The Government exists for OUR sake, we don’t exist for its sake.  In theory, it BELONGS to us, to me, to you, to Leefeller, et al.  We don’t belong to it.

Now I know you have long defended and advocated for the very people who while talking about “freedom” do everything possible to enslave us to serve them, so it doesn’t surprise me that you think there’s no difference between government secrets and personal privacy.

Now, to be VERY elementary: When a government employee (or a company employee) is acting on his/her own, their information is PRIVATE unless the government has a compelling reason (under law) to see it.  Just like every other citizen.

But everyone working for a corporation or the Government knows (unless they are an idiot) that the NONE of their work is “private”.  Every email on my company-owned computer, every message, every program, EVERYTHING, belongs to the company, not me.  In my professional work I have nothing called “privacy”.  This is true whether I work for a corporation, a not-for-profit, or for the Government.  It’s not even implicit—it’s a signed-off condition of employment.

So…since I KNOW you believe that the Corporation Exxon is exactly the same kind of “person” as you and me, you believe that that corporation is “entitled” to the same privacy rights as you and me.  For example: The big tobacco companies refused to reveal the chemicals they put in their cigarettes as “secret formulas” even in the face of solid challenges that they were introducing, DELIBERATELY, agents to make cigarettes more addictive.  No privacy rights.  Coca-Cola? Other than demonstrating that nothing harmful is in their “secret formula”, they are entitled to keep the formula secret.

I don’t corps or governments are “legal persons” just like you or me. I believe the corporation as a legal “person” should only exist when there is no legal justification to “pierce the corporate veil”, and no further. I don’t believe they have the right to contribute to political campaigns, to run political ads even though its employees and share-holders have those rights.

But when our government is BREAKING OUR LAWS as well as International Law they are NOT entitled to keep that law-breaking secret.

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By Go Right Young Man, December 6, 2010 at 2:46 pm Link to this comment

BR549, - “I guess we must be on the same water supply because you forgot to address my questions as well.”

-

I thought I was clear.  I did not read your entire previous post. 

Still waiting for you to step-up and show everyone that you will do what you demand of others. - You may see some difference in what you demand and what I am now requesting, however, there is no difference.

You see, I suspect, as others undoubtedly will also, that you’re a thief and mass murderer.  I can, at the very least, prove to everyone here whether or not you have ever been suspected or convicted of such crimes.  I believe this will help everyone here to determine your true intentions.

-

I’ll make it easier on you.  Give us the first three (3) and last four (4) numbers of your SSN and I will, not unlike Assange, post a good deal of your private information here on this Web space.

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By BR549, December 6, 2010 at 2:12 pm Link to this comment

GRYM,
I guess we must be on the same water supply because you forgot to address my questions as well. The flip side might be that I just found your questions as being ridiculous or rhetorical and undeserving of any further input. Had that thought crossed your mind? I didn’t think so.

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By Go Right Young Man, December 6, 2010 at 2:06 pm Link to this comment

BR549,

Did you forget to share with the group which WikiLeak “Breaking News” you were not already aware of?

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By Go Right Young Man, December 6, 2010 at 2:03 pm Link to this comment

BR549,

I read the first paragraph of your last post before I stopped reading.

You either believe in what you demand of others or you do not.  It’s certainly looking more and more like you do not.

Which part of this do you not understand?  We, here, do not know if you are acting legally or not.  We wont truly know if you are partly the cause of the many wars about the globe until you supply us all with the information we feel we are entitled to.

Forget the many risks to yourself.  Be an example of a true, disciplined, hero.  Post the information I have requested.

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By BR549, December 6, 2010 at 1:45 pm Link to this comment

GRYM,

And exactly WHY would offering up all our personal information show OUR ‘transparency’?  Mother Teresa might have had a heart of gold, but I doubt she would have been foolish enough to try to pet a rabid Pit Bull, and like her, many people try to practice kindness and honesty in their lives and find it particularly distasteful when paid officials, who have taken an oath to do exactly the opposite, use their offices totally against the wishes of the public. Again, you make no sense.

I was just listening to Webster Tarpley lambasting Assange as being a George Soros, MKUltra, lackey, and who knows, it may all well be true, but the point is, if nothing else, Assange’s actions have helped to uncover the veil of deceit that governments (our’s in particular) operate under. Assange could be a plant, or he could be operating on his own; I’m not even claiming to know which is true. The point is that, whatever his motives, he has put the ugliness of our ‘family’ on the discussion table for all to see, even if it is only a paltry sample.

It would be like living in family where everyone knows the family is screwed up, but no one wants to talk about anything. Every day, the family members sit down for dinner and exchange niceties, and no one discusses Billy having snuck into Rachel’s room and read her personal diary, or that Sam has been siphoning $5 bills from his father’s wallet every week for the last two years, or that mom has a private stash of bourbon hidden in the basement for when everyone is away. Too many skeletons. Exactly at which point would you decide that this whole scenario isn’t working anymore? It sounds to me that you’d be content just knowing that everyone knows what the issues are and even more content if none of it ever got discussed. Wow, that’s healthy.

Again, it isn’t like any of these people (in the fictitious family) were planning to murder someone or bomb a bus station. Their actions are indicative of petty resentments, a total lack of trust (not to mention a lack of boundaries), and a complete failure in communications. So, even though these people aren’t REALLY hurting anyone, their perception of their part in the family energy dynamic only reinforces the pathology. None of this is different from Assange’s leaks here. He might be akin to the youngest child acting out everyone’s resentments and embarrassing the snot out of the family while they’re all pretending to be civil during Thanksgiving dinner. Those kids always seem to be perceptive that way. God bless them.

OR ...... Assange could be setting the stage, prescriptively, for Sunstein, Leibermann, and Hillary and Obama to pull the plug on the internet, in which case he was a traitor to all, but in the end, if he forced the discussion, how is that in any way a bad thing? If he is a Soros minion, OK well, I’ll retract my recommendation for the Nobel Prize, but the resultant unification of unspoken popular ideals can only be seen as a plus.

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By radson, December 6, 2010 at 1:02 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller

Are you sure that Dabya likes Vietnamese food ,or is an evangelical ready for the plate .Wars require a certain amount of patience ,and usually the spring is a good time ,to spring a campaign ,and yes the beer is good .

cheers

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By Go Right Young Man, December 6, 2010 at 12:48 pm Link to this comment

sallysense, - “have you even read these cables for yourself ?!...”

-

Yes.  A good deal of them.  Just as I have read and studied each and every U.N. Weapons Inspection report concerning Iraq and every U.N. resolution concerning Afghanistan over the previous thirty (30) years.

Now if would please share with the group which WikiLeak “Breaking News” you were not already aware of?  I think your answer would be illustrative.

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By Leefeller, December 6, 2010 at 12:19 pm Link to this comment

Radison,

My cats are doing fine now, since I got rid of Texas who became evangelical so I sold him to the the closest Vietnamese restaurant in Soggybits! By the way I sip my Tequila, but chug my beer , usually in sequence, so this means a warm skunky beer.

GRYM, you humble me by response, please let me defer the trait of selflessness to you,.... anyway,  I may be a socialist of sorts plus a peace monger and a fan of GRYM for his consistency in providing some of the most ingratiating commentary on TD,...... which occasionally requires my infrequent attention. 

What war?

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By Go Right Young Man, December 6, 2010 at 12:17 pm Link to this comment

ITW, - “Of course, to GRYMey, there’s no difference between your personal and private information and government information.”

-

Absolutely correct.  You either believe in what you demand of others or you do not.

The New York Times has no problem revealing illegally obtained WikiLeak information but refuses to divulge when a Times reporter is abducted in Afghanistan - for fear of reporter’s safety. But has no problem reporting when six international relief workers are abducted from the same area. - No safety concerns there!

You either believe or you do not.

-

When, ITW?  When will you practice what you demand of others?  You demand your personal private information be kept secret (you must be a criminal or you would have NOTHING TO HIDE).

Government has never been “open” for all to see.  There has not been a governmental system in all of human history that has been completely open to the world.  To attempt it would be suicide.

I would like you, ITW, to display your convictions and bravery by posting your private information as requested.  Stand up and be heard.  Do It Today!

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By sallysense, December 6, 2010 at 12:02 pm Link to this comment

hiya go right young man’n'all!... and in regards to that question you asked…

have you even read these cables for yourself ?!...

these documents reiterate what goes on behind the scenes in losses of human life and resources due to power plays based mainly on illusion!...

are you too selfish to care about the real human lives and resources being wasted away day after day ?!... or is that ya just don’t know any better ?...

and what kind of deluded state-of-okay do you sit back in ?!... accepting poor excuses spread by others to smooth over injustices!...

as if you can’t even recognize the camouflage outfits that big shots use to dress up unsound reasons in!... hoping to alter their appearance enough to make them look good enough for the masses to swallow up!...

and then you pass those reasons onto others!... like some kinda mental conveyor belt whose only job is to ship and receive thoughts already conceived!... and not hafta think on your own anymore!...

it’s almost as though the contemplative process in your own mind has been replaced with super-automated thought-processors made by big shot companies!... wanting you to think the way they want you to think!... rather than resorting to your own in-born thinking from scratch!...

again… have you even read these cables for yourself ?!...

or do you conveniently resort to borrowing generic conclusions from smart remarks ?!... easily inserting them into parts of your speech ?!... oblivious to what they actually say!... but ultimately enjoying another leisurely drive as you feel the breezes that their wheels seem to create as they cruise through your ego!...

don’t ya care about all the death and destruction and waste that’s going on day in and day out ?!...

well do ya or don’t ya ?!... 

the best of wishes’n'ways’n'todays for the sake of saving human lives and resources!... smile

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By Inherit The Wind, December 6, 2010 at 11:52 am Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, December 6 at 4:35 pm Link to this comment

Lefeller,

You are a great and selfless individual. Please post all of your E-Mail addresses, your scrn names, pass-phrases, the last 1000 Web sites you’ve visited and all outgoing and incoming ISP, Web based and residential correspondence so that the entire world will know you as I do.
********************

Another GRYMey red herring!

Of course, to GRYMey, there’s no difference between your personal and private information and government information.

Unless, as I said, it’s just another one of his obscene little attempts at misdirection and redirection AWAY from the issues.

What a good little apologist you are!

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By Go Right Young Man, December 6, 2010 at 11:35 am Link to this comment

Lefeller,

You are a great and selfless individual. Please post all of your E-Mail addresses, your scrn names, pass-phrases, the last 1000 Web sites you’ve visited and all outgoing and incoming ISP, Web based and residential correspondence so that the entire world will know you as I do.

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By radson, December 6, 2010 at 11:25 am Link to this comment

Leefeller
You must be ‘leaking ’ something .I always assumed that you preferred Tequila and by the way how are your cats doing

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By Go Right Young Man, December 6, 2010 at 11:20 am Link to this comment

BR549,

In addition to all the information I have requested, please don’t forget to share with the group which WikiLeak “Breaking News” you were not already aware of.

I’m sure everyone here would enjoy learning which “news” events has taken you by such surprise.

For example:  Was it a surprise to learn that the King of Saudi Arabia has long begged the U.S. to move against Iran?  OR were you surprised to learn that the Lebanese Defense Minister shared with Israel the logistical information on the whereabouts of Hezbollah?

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By Go Right Young Man, December 6, 2010 at 11:03 am Link to this comment

BR549,

I will tell you, garard and others the same things I have stated on other posts.

You are all to be commended on your steadfast belief in openness and full disclosure(s).  It’s impossible to know the true motivations of any individual or group without such widespread openness.

Please post each of your respective E-Mail addresses, all of your scrn names, pass phrases, the last 1000 Web sites you’ve each visited and all outgoing and incoming ISP, Web based and residential correspondence.

If each of you practice what you demand of others I, for one, will hold you all up as selfless and heroic patriots deserving of sincere high praise and honors.  Failure to open yourselves up to such scrutiny, however, demands that all of us here look upon each of you as “nefarious” criminals bent on the death and destruction of democracy.

-

We are all in need of true heroes in this harsh environment.  It gives us terrific hope. Please step up and show yourselves.

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By Leefeller, December 6, 2010 at 11:00 am Link to this comment

Considering over the course of history, the masses were privy to squat, we the masses should be pleased to see how the grander minds work, so thank you Wiki Leakes for further exposing GRYM!

Discrediting the truth seems business as usual, isn’t this the usual tactic?

As the dirty laundry is airing in our faces, one can smell the stronger skunky smell, makes me thirst for one of those skunky beers!!

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By BR549, December 6, 2010 at 10:23 am Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, December 6 at 1:20 pm
“Marshall nailed this precisely on the head.  Of these thousands upon thousands of pages of documents there is very little “News” being made.  Transparency in the U.S. is, well, very apparent.”

Are we supposed to believe, then, if we were being that “transparent”, that Hillary is just using this opportunity to grandstand over some trumped up National Security issues? Aside from the potential for the leak, itself, if we were being so open and honest, would Hillary then be lying about the potential for damage by the data that, according to you, has already been released?

Whatever you’re smoking, pass some around for the rest of us.

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By Go Right Young Man, December 6, 2010 at 8:20 am Link to this comment

But I’m struck by the fact that after the release of hundreds of thousands of classified documents there is so little of surprise.  Whether you agree or disagree on balance with US foreign policy, virtually all the broad strokes were already public which means that transparency was already high.

-

Marshall nailed this precisely on the head.  Of these thousands upon thousands of pages of documents there is very little “News” being made.  Transparency in the U.S. is, well, very apparent. - Assange has already stated that the U.S. governmental system can be collapsed due to it’s “openness” and “freedoms”.

-

Will anyone here argue (or admit) that they have been so ignorant of world events that the WikiLeaks dumps have caught them by surprise?  So surprised, in fact, that Assange is deserving of a Nobel Prize?

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By gerard, December 5, 2010 at 11:54 pm Link to this comment

Marshall: Please refer me to Assange’s “stated anarchistic goals.”  I have wondered why Assange’s stated goals have not been more widely circulated.It seems he is deliberately not being allowed to speak for himself.

As to your statement: ...“we all know which
countries we consider more wicked than others.”  It depends on who “we” is, of course.  Until the human race can get rid of the antique idea that some countries are “more wicked” than others, and that “my” country is “less wicked” than “yours”, we are still on the road to hell. 

The fact is that power is wicked, especially when it is used against the less powerful (which is almost always the case). The more power, the more wicked. Sadly, it stands to reason that the U.S. (having the most power) qualifies, sadly, as the most wicked. I deeply wish this were not true, but history and current events, plus reports from overseas, indicate that it is true.

However, my reading so far is that Assange is not aiming at the U.S. in particular, but at the secret uncontrolled activities of (quite undiplomatic)
“diplomats” who seem only to know how to exert raw power (of money and military force) and seem not to consider the welfare of human beings, whether foreign or native, but instead treat them like pawns in some “great game” of dominance, wasting both moral and financial capital on pushing people around and getting them killed to satisfy their own limited nationalistic goals.  It’s too late for that, as Assange and others are beginning to realize.
  To put it in simplistic terms, nationalism is a dead duck.

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By Marshall, December 5, 2010 at 8:56 pm Link to this comment

By gerard, December 5 at 2:13 am Link to this comment

“In other words, you would get rid of nefariousness in goveernment by
supporting nefarousness in government and adding to it?”

Not at all.  My point was that I don’t automatically equate secrecy with
nefariousness.  All nations act in their own best interests but we all know which
countries we consider more wicked than others.  For many writing here, their
support for Assange is in direct proportion to their dislike of the US and its
foreign policy.  It’s why many on the far left jump to Assange’s defense, and
because his stated anarchistic goals resonate with their own beliefs.  But I’m
struck by the fact that after the release of hundreds of thousands of classified
documents there is so little of surprise.  Whether you agree or disagree on
balance with US foreign policy, virtually all the broad strokes were already
public which means that transparency was already high.  The leaked ground
level impressions and minutia aren’t particularly revealing of macro aims and
are therefore inherently less important.  But this doesn’t excuse his source’s
treason or trivialize his thus far failing campaign against the US.

And to call him a “whistle-blower” is to already side with his view of the US
govt. as evil.  He’s a leaker and that’s it.

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By Inherit The Wind, December 5, 2010 at 5:01 pm Link to this comment

Hey GRYM:

How come I am dangerous but BR549 isn’t?  He says the same things about your views and techniques that idea, even more so.

I guess we know who the REAL bigot is.

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By Inherit The Wind, December 5, 2010 at 4:58 pm Link to this comment

One again GRYM confuses CLARITY with DANGER.  He doesn’t understand a statement, one the with typos is a little confusing, but with the typos cleared is perfectly clear.

Instead he responds with an attack.

GRYM: The truth will set you free, if you are wise enough and honest enough to embrace it.

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By BR549, December 5, 2010 at 4:46 pm Link to this comment

GRYM,
Still taking everything all too literally. Life inside the box.

From Salon.com:  “One may argue about whether or not he [Assange] precisely fits into the definition of what an anarchist is, and some dyed-in-the-wool anarchists will perhaps turn up their noses at the suggestion, but Julian Assange is engaged in anarchist acts and has presented governments around the world with damning attacks against their credibility and legitimacy.”

For the sake of simplicity, many people refer to themselves as atheists, when in fact they are merely agnostics. So, as I have read Assange’s statements, I don’t believe he is an anarchist one bit. Rather, he only wishes to help tear down the corrupt and dysfunctional facade that is festering here and around the world. He might have put himself in your “anarchist” pigeon hole, to make it easier for some people to understand the magnitude, but that suit doesn’t fit him, in the true sense of the word.

As Salon pointed out, “Assange is engaged in anarchist acts”, but that is how the system would wish to categorize him, because it only justifies and continues to cover up the abuses it has endorsed for so long. The populations around the world, however, would see Assange as one who helped drop Goliath in order to then restore order along more humanitarian lines. Hardly an anarchistic act.

Like I said, he should get a Nobel Prize, along with Manning and anyone else who put themselves on the line in order to bring this evil to light.

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By Go Right Young Man, December 5, 2010 at 2:22 pm Link to this comment

BR549, - “GRYM, You state that Assange has anarchistic goals. Why, because he upsets your fragile understanding of the world as you know it?”

-

No. Mr. Assange states he’s an anarchist.  Why is it that you have so much to say, yet you don’t know this yourself?

Perhaps you could spend more time listening to the individual you’re writing about?

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By PatrickHenry, December 5, 2010 at 1:36 pm Link to this comment

Assange is not a U.S. citizen, he did not commit any crime or treasonable act.

U.S. ‘secrets’ are not secrets outside the U.S., they have no copyright protection and serve nothing more than tabloid fare in most countries.

http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/25645/wikileaks-ufos/

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By gerard, December 5, 2010 at 1:22 pm Link to this comment

A couple obvious considerations that are getting lost here:

1.It shouldn’lt even be necessry to “whistle-blow” on our own government if it were open and democratic,  if it made itself available to its people, respected their opinions and worked for the general welfare.
2. The very reaction of the government to make a fugitive of the “leaker” and try to close down all sites airing the information, all companies connected with its release, and deny him adequate chance to explain what he did and why—that in itself indicates the very lack of democracy we need to recognize and repair.
3. To use the excuse that our government is “forced to” use duplicitous methods simply because other countries do that, is exactly what shows our universal failure to recognize moral values and stand up for them.  It shows just why we have lost whatever democracy we pretended to have.
4. This “leaking” would not have been necessary, nor would it have happened if the U.S. governmen officials and business managers had not allowed themselves to be over-run by greed for money and power to the extent of insanity (thinking they can, should and must dominate the world). How many millions of letters, phone calls, petitions have they received begging them to, for instance, stop the wars in the Middle East, or save people from rapacious banking practices? How many pleas have they ignored, and still ignore even up to the point of ordering mmassive “surveillance"to try to scare off and shut down criticism and suggestion?
5. Assange wants to show us how to use “surveillance” to “surveil the surveillers” to gain the access to our government which we have been systematically denied, and to reform its deceits.
He wants to help us use modern (rapidly advancing) technology to maintain democracy—which depends upon openness in communication first, last and always.

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By PatrickHenry, December 5, 2010 at 1:08 pm Link to this comment

National hero Daniel Ellberg wonders why a disclosure like the present one doesn’t happen at least once a year.

http://www.ellsberg.net/

This whole affair reminds me of George Orwells statement that “in times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act”.

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By BR549, December 5, 2010 at 12:45 pm Link to this comment

GRYM,
You state that Assange has anarchistic goals. Why, because he upsets your fragile understanding of the world as you know it?

That’s the problem with limited thinking, people get trapped into believing that any attack on the system they’ve invested themselves too heavily in can only be some evil attempt to bring the world to an end and it must be thwarted by crusading for truth and justice, however corrupt it might be. Take a few Valium and a few deep breaths. What YOU are perceiving as anarchy is merely the majority of people’s total disgust with how the system has been perverted. It isn’t the system that needs changing, but the connection of the individuals who still

The politicians would be tickled pink if the citizens wanted to resort to anarchy because it would reinforce their own delusion that they have some God given purpose to keep order in their Universe. The truth is far different. The Constitution isn’t the problem; it’s corruptible individuals who have lost connection with very society they took an oath to serve; they are the problem.

The bottom line is ...... these people took an oath, ........ and they are continuing to break the trust the people placed in them. If you can spell “ANARCHY” from that, you need to get a new reader. I’ll send you a copy of “Curious George”.

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By sallysense, December 5, 2010 at 12:17 pm Link to this comment

(gee)...

did the president tell the troops in afghanistan that government representation has said that even total success in afghanistan would unravel if pakistan falls apart…

or that government representation wants china to be more involved in pakistan and afghanistan…

and more… see for yourself…

http://213.251.145.96/cable/2009/03/09STATE30049.html

http://cablesearch.org

it’s no wonder that the government doesn’t want this stuff made public!...

big shots wheeling and dealing with more losses of human lives and resources!... and for the sake of what ?!...

the truth needs to be exposed!...

the best of wishes’n'ways’n'todays for the sake of saving human lives and resources!... smile

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By Go Right Young Man, December 5, 2010 at 10:10 am Link to this comment

ITW,

Once again:  You know you’ve lost any debate when all you have left is a personal attack to hurl from your satchel of tricks.

When, ITW?  When will you see that what you practice is not only needless, it’s dangerous?

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By Inherit The Wind, December 5, 2010 at 9:55 am Link to this comment

This was no WAY to set an example for constructive stewardship. If anything, it didn’t tilt OUR laurels, it burned them outright. Maybe you voted for that type of behavior and think it to be acceptable; I didn’t, and I don’t think the majority of Americans are comfortable with it either.
**************************

Maybe with the typos corrected (in all caps) GRYM will now understand what was otherwise blatantly obvious in your post.

Then again, probably not.

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By Go Right Young Man, December 5, 2010 at 7:28 am Link to this comment

BR549, - “This was no was to set an example for constructive stewardship. If anything, it didn’t tilt or laurels, it burned them outright.”

-

I have no idea what any of that means. 

You previously wrote that Assange is deserving of the Nobel Prize for peace.  I asked if you share Assange’s anarchist goals.

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By fearnotruth, December 5, 2010 at 6:10 am Link to this comment

RE: comments by GRYM, again the predictable L-vs-R distraction - disregard that

In the jargon of the intelligence community, this [Wikileaks’ Cabelgate] would be called a case of
“deflective source disinformation”. These days, when so many people around the
world take what governments says with a grain of salt, it’s one of the few
reasonably effective propoganda techniques left

- seamus_padraig, on December 2nd, 2010 at 3:34 am -
http://www.amconmag.com/blog/2010/12/01/if-wikileaks-is-a-psyop-whose-psyop-is-it/

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By BR549, December 5, 2010 at 1:20 am Link to this comment

GRYM,
I don’t take issue with some topics being unavailable to the public, but when the reasons cross the line with respect to ethics and morality, and the average American is embarrassed to have the world know what has been leaked, exactly where do we draw that line in the sand?

I for one, while having not been entirely in the dark, was disturbed that our foreign policy was so blatant and abusive. This was no was to set an example for constructive stewardship. If anything, it didn’t tilt or laurels, it burned them outright. Maybe you voted for that type of behavior and think it to be acceptable; I didn’t, and I don’t think the majority of Americans are comfortable with it either.

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By Go Right Young Man, December 4, 2010 at 11:11 pm Link to this comment

Marshal - “Just because something is secret doesn’t make it wrong, evil, or a requirement for outage under the name of “full disclosure” anymore than your personal private information should be published for all to see to cleanse you of the inherent corruption that must exist because you hide it.  People like Assange appoint themselves judge and jury for all moral causes and claim the right to disclose any obtained information regardless of consequence.  You side with Assange by claiming the moral high ground but many like myself see only the fulfillment of personal vendetta and an anarchistic agenda here.”

-

An excellent and blunt real time, real life, bottom-line assessment.  In fact the entire point in these WikiLeak dumps is in the context of anarchy.  We know this easily as Mr. Assange himself says it is.

Unfortunately many people take a portion of Assange’s “State and Terrorist Conspiracies” and assign the words to their own, often diametrically opposing, cause(s). 

It’s been interesting to watch so far.

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By radson, December 4, 2010 at 9:17 pm Link to this comment

Tao Walker

The time warp factor is in clear evidence ,the ones that seemingly have the ‘time ’ can’t think;or at best think that they have time to think ,yet they rely on ‘think tanks ’ because apparently they don’t think enough,due
to the lavish lifestyle that inhibits thinking ,because of more important priorities that encompass such a lifestyle;it’s like buying a chicken at the supermarket.Now Bob is still making waves around the globe and at
the ‘circle ’ which shares the Mitakuye Oyasin ,Bob is still reverberating ‘Tak’ pl.

so here’s an avatar enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibFt3wjhans

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By gerard, December 4, 2010 at 9:13 pm Link to this comment

marshall:  “Do you really believe that a govt. like the US can operate with complete transparency in a
world of competing nation-states whose agendas are often hidden and nefarious?  If so then you are delusional like Assange,”  you ask.
  In other words, you would get rid of nefariousness in goveernment by supporting nefarousness in government and adding to it?
  But the problem isn’t really that.  To go a little further, the problem is not “complete transparency” but complete obscurity, secrecy, which will destroy democracy quicker than any bombs.
  What Assange has done is to use a brilliant irony to show up the problem of “surveillance” and the kind of world it breeds.  Wikileaks “surveilled” some cables in order to show the utterly new world problem of surveillance itself. It is both a great danger and a great help.
  If we citizens who hope to live in a free country don’t learn how to surveille what is going on behind the scenes in our own government, and work for international openness (means stop graft, buying people, threatening, making secret deals, promoting wars, saying one thing to one person and the opposite to another, lying to the public, and pretending) there’s little hope for humanity.
  Why not let Assange speak for himself?  In part:

“To radically shift regime behavior we must think clearly and boldly for if we have learned anything, it is that regimes do not want to be changed. We must think beyond those who have gone before us, and discover technological changes that embolden us with ways to act in which our forebears could not. Firstly we must understand what aspect of government or neocorporatist behavior we wish to change or remove. Secondly we must develop a way of thinking about this behavior that is strong enough to carry us through the mire of politically distorted language, and into a position of clarity. Finally we must use these insights to inspire within us and others a course of ennobling, and effective action.”

Julian Assange, “State and Terrorist Conspiracies”
Google zubzguzungu for the rest of Assange’s essay.

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By Marshall, December 4, 2010 at 8:12 pm Link to this comment

By RayLan, December 2 at 1:54 pm Link to this comment

If there’s such a thing as a loaded answer, yours is it.  Just because something is
secret doesn’t make it wrong, evil, or a requirement for outage under the name
of “full disclosure” anymore than your personal private information should be
published for all to see to cleanse you of the inherent corruption that must
exist because you hide it.  People like Assange appoint themselves judge and
jury for all moral causes and claim the right to disclose any obtained
information regardless of consequence.  You side with Assange by claiming the
moral high ground but many like myself see only the fulfillment of personal
vendetta and an anarchistic agenda here.  I supported the war in Afghanistan as
most in the US did, including liberals, and don’t buy the moral equivalency of
terrorist logic in justifying its corrupt, sadistic behavior and tactics.

Do you actually know what Assange wants?  You likely claim yourself a liberal
but I suspect your beloved socialist utopia would be as likely a target for his
“disclosure” campaign as any.  How would you respond then?  Do you really
believe that a govt. like the US can operate with complete transparency in a
world of competing nation-states whose agendas are often hidden and
nefarious?  If so then you are delusional like Assange.

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By Go Right Young Man, December 4, 2010 at 6:25 pm Link to this comment

BR549, - Assange deserves the Nobel.

-

So you’re an anarchist?  You encourage the demise of the current global system?  You encourage global suffrage, illness, starvation and the potential death of tens of millions of human beings in the name of your cause of peace, love and fairness?

Or do you misunderstand the way in which Mr. Assange describes his own goals?

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By sallysense, December 4, 2010 at 6:12 pm Link to this comment

the truth needs to be exposed!... it’s that simple… regardless of how many tactics any big shots try to use to make it appear otherwise…

(they’re already blazing all kindsa theories across the internet pages to sidetrack these exposures and stage new main events to replace them… it’s like resorting to secondary things to lessen the importance of initial things… and it’s done a lot these days)...

(gee though)...

\\\
00
o
o

“so did ya consider the source?”...

‘///
00
o
O

“well i tried to!... but hearsay kept interfering!”...

... smile

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By IceNine, December 4, 2010 at 5:25 pm Link to this comment

RE: WikiLeaks and the Daniel Ellsberg/Pentagon Papers Precedent

Firstly, Daniel Ellsberg was/is an American citizen. At the time of his theft and subsequent release of the Pentagon Papers, he had been working as a military analyst, believed deeply in the positive value of the VietNam war, and via his work for the US government, actively supported that conflict. 

It was his first-hand witness and experience of that war that changed his mind and heart. He experienced deep shame and remorse and did not ever lie about or attempt to minimize his own involvement in the advancement of the VietNam war.

He released the Pentagon Papers in the hope that making that information public would galvanize Americans not already involved in the peace movement to join the protest. If the protest were broadened to near universality, it might have brought the war to an immediate end. He wished that he had acted much sooner.

Daniel Ellsberg is a man who was capable of changing course when what he saw gravely contradicted what he had been told. He risked his personal safety and freedom here in this country where he was a citizen. He gave up his career, his livelihood, and a heady access to powerful people and secret information in order to do what he believed was right. He was and is an honorable man, a man who could not carry on living in his own skin without exposing damning truths about a terrible war. He was driven by his conscience.

Mr. Assange apparently purchased a treasure trove of diplomatic trivia and is creating quite a sideshow while releasing it in chunks. Prior to the latest release, we all knew in a broad outline sort of way what these cables have revealed in some detail. What the actual ripple effect will be and how far it will spread remains to be seen. But Mr. Assange has no love for this country and no personal spiritual or moral investment of any sort in its future. He manages his revelations from afar and has no real focus, other than creating commotion.

A few of the talking heads seem convinced he has taken us a step closer to Armageddon. Most consider this a minor tempest in the international teapot. Time will tell. Perhaps Assange has done a right thing for a wrong reason, perhaps not. Either way, he doesn’t hold a candle to Daniel Ellsberg and does not deserve the comparison.

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By BR549, December 4, 2010 at 4:14 pm Link to this comment

GRYM,
No, the idiot that was in office from 2000-2008, the one with an I.Q. of a potted geranium, he should have a hemp necktie ........ along with that pompous windbag that was in office for the previous 8 years before him. There’ll be dancing in the streets. There’ll be so many of those traitors lined up that Madam LaFarge will have time to knit a freakin’ quilt.

Partay! Care for a drink?  :o)

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By Go Right Young Man, December 4, 2010 at 4:02 pm Link to this comment

BR549, - “No, Assange, aside from his motives, has done this country a HUGE favor by making it easier for us to look in that mirror and
reassess what we see. The man needs a Nobel Peace Prize.”

-

By that reasoning George W. Shrub is equally deserving of a Nobel Peace Prize.  Something tells me, however, your sensibilities will not allow that?

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By TAO Walker, December 4, 2010 at 3:36 pm Link to this comment

“radson” might or might not be reassured to learn that “time,” like the “civilization” disease of which it is such an essential feature of the thing’s immuno-suppression regime, has about run its course here.  Our tame Sisters and Brothers are going to enjoy again the organic freedom (with its attendant functional responsibility) of that ironic oxymoron called “Indian time.”

So f’r sure, “There’s no time to think!”—Bob Dylan

HokaHey!

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By drbhelthi, December 4, 2010 at 2:29 pm Link to this comment

The isreali MOSSAD spreading truth, or accurate,
insider information?  Fairy Tale.

Torching its own villages, a limited repetition of 9-
11 (initially), not only distracts from the world-
wide critique engendered by recent internet
publication of Israeli atrocities.  Sympathy
engendered in the naïve´ western world will be
misused to warm-up support for an attack on Iran. 
Could comrades “Lieberman and Hillary” possibly be
members of this group - - ? 

It is predictable that an innocent arab-type, with
ties to Iran, has been set up, to have set the torch. 
Similar to the set-up of Oswald, who was drinking a
coke downstairs at the coke machine.  While George
H.W.Bush Sr. was observing John F. Kennedy Sr. being
murdered?  Or, hiding behind brick walls at the
moment, in order to avoid identification, & a
possibly patriotic action of mafia-types pulling the
triggers - - ?  Some of whom genuinely appreciate the
U.S.A.  The criminal activity of the US mafia is
nothing compared to that of the U.S. CIA, since 1950.

Eventually, perhaps even sooner, the truth about the
Israeli village torching will be leaked, and leaders
of all the countries who jumped in to “help the poor
Israelis” can mess in their pants due to
embarrassment.  Excepting Vatican City, no genuine
nation has the head/dollar count of this “cult
nation.”  Certainly not 230 nukes provided semi-
gratis by Bush, Clinton, Bush.  NAZI-type scum bags
inside the U.S. Gov, who are trying to shut-down
truth-sources, such as WIKI, in order to more swiftly
shut-down the U.S.A., and enslave its citizenry?

The same scumbags who planned, hired the MOSSAD to
“load up” the Twin Towers and the 3rd building, then
pulled off the event that NAZI-types misused to begin
the undeclared wars in the Near East.  Which wars are
assisting Israel to genocide Moslem-types while
making a few U.S. puppet-governor-types rich. 
Scumbags, all.

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By fearnotruth, December 4, 2010 at 2:04 pm Link to this comment

RE: ...large amounts of unfiltered data without concern for the contents…

au contraire, contents very carefully cultivated

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/12/02/gordon-duff-the-wiki-hoax/

GORDON DUFF: THE WIKI HOAX
December 2, 2010 posted by Gordon Duff · 113 Comments

DIDN’T WE SEE THIS POSE IN 1932?
THE GLOBAL CONSPIRACY BEHIND THE BOYISH GRIN…
By Gordon Duff STAFF WRITER/Senior Editor

True colors, we are seeing them now.  Those still trying to peddle the Wikileaks myth, the boyish grin concealing the powerful conspiracy, espionage and treason at the highest levels of American society, these are the real enemies of the information age.

There are two opinions of Wikileaks.  The worlds intelligence services all, every single one, believes Wikileaks is simply an intelligence agency playing games.  They say this to each other, Vladimir Putin and Zbigniew Brzezinski have announced it to the world and others are following suit.

Nobody, at least nobody typically “answerable” will say the word “Israel” but it is what they mean when they say “intelligence agency.”  They mean Israel.  Every Wikileak does something to help Israel in a different way at a different time.  If Israel has a problem, a Wikileak is there, part of the solution.  This time, Secretary Clinton was in the way and Wikileaks showed up to gut the State Department and give Israel the usual “buff and polish” job they usually do.

There is another group, not a group that actually believes Wikileaks is real, few but the “Joe Six-Pack” crowd buys that, but a group that loves Wikileaks like an addict loves a fix.  The press loves Wikileaks.  I even love Wikileaks.  Wikileaks is pushing readership through the roof, not just America but worldwide.  Wikileaks is a news marketing phenomenon like any disaster.  There is a reason the media are compared to vultures and hyenas.

Killing Wikileaks as the hoax it is, and not a harmless hoax, not by a long shot, is like killing the golden goose.  Wikileaks sells news, pulls up website traffic to unimaginable levels, even crashes servers from overload.  There isn’t just one story, teaching the world how bad America is, there is also the daytime TV drama, the soap opera of Julian Assange.

I wonder when the public will pick up on the endless stream of carefully posed, carefully staged photos.  Just imagine meeting Assange, hiding from Interpol, running for his life, the CIA hunting him down, angry “date rape’ victims lurking the streets of London and Amsterdam.  He always has time for the media, never misses an interview.

more - http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/07/29/gordon-duff-wiki-leaks-is-isreal-like-we-all-didnt-know/

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By Caniculus, December 4, 2010 at 1:32 pm Link to this comment

Bob, you write: “If any of the information was so
sensitive, why was none of it labeled “top secret” as
is the practice with content that would risk our
nation’s security? And why was this vast trove placed
in computer systems to which low-ranking personnel
had access?”

The answer, of course, is because this “treasure
trove” is pure drivel compared to actual secure
information. In fact, this is all low-level smoke
with all the ear-marks of a black-op controlled
release. So far, all this information does is affirm
what we already know. And, the actual significance of
the information will not penetrate to more than about
10% of the U.S. population—the remaining free
thinkers. (This estimate is probably overly
optimistic.)

PFC Bradley Manning and probably Julian Assange are
stool pigeons. (Manning is definitely the Oswald type
of stool pigeon. It is too early to tell if Assange
is of this type, or is of the Osama bin Laden type
who will remain useful for years to come.)

This release has several objectives.

First, and perhaps the most benign objective,
governments around the world—all of whom
participate in this kind of childish gameplaying and
horse trading that passes these days for diplomacy—
will condemn this release and use it to tighten
controls on information. Every government on the
planet will become even less transparent. In the
U.S., there will be plenty of public support for this
from the usual authoritarian groups, resulting in
another surge of patriotism that embraces secret
government activities.

Second, those responsible for these leaks (and
others) will be tried and convicted of treason,
probably in the U.S. This will lead to a witch hunt
and imprisonment (and at least one execution) of low
level bureaucrats, including U.S. government employee whistle-blowers and military. In the U.S., many
actions will be taken to pacify government employees
and military.

Third, the information released will be used to
further the interests of the U.S., Saudi Arabia, and
Israel. Expect overt military action against Iran.
(There is already plenty of covert military action
underway.) North Korea will also likely get entwined
as more cables are revealed.

Fourth, government/corporate control of the Internet
will increase. The free Internet as we have known it
will be dead, probably within a year.

This dramatic comedy, which has been entertaining
some of us for four decades, is in its last act.

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By sallysense, December 4, 2010 at 1:24 pm Link to this comment

wikileaks didn’t break any laws when it published ‘classified info’...

and also the new york times didn’t break any laws when it published ‘classified info’ prior to wikileaks publishing it…

and also the uk guardian didn’t break any laws when it published ‘classified info’ prior to wikileaks publishing it…

however president george w bush did break laws…

the best of wishes’n'ways’n'todays to each’n'everyone!... smile

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By Leefeller, December 4, 2010 at 12:27 pm Link to this comment

Matters of opinion are not debates, unless one makes them such!  My opinions are nothing more than the assimumlation of ideas over time, hopefully with the influance of expensive Tequlia!

So now Wiki Leaks is a CIA plot to counter any counter
unintellegence?  Since I do not intend to read the leaky stuff, I will defer my final opinion until after me demise.

Revilations from Wiki Leaks may lead to some serious questions, which make me want to question the sanity of the Imbiciles leading this country which seems about the same as before the Wiki Leaks, meaning we are going down a thorny primrose path. 

If one really steps back and looks at the comments here on Truth Dig, ask yourself do they represent general opiinon?  Me thinks not!.... Seems here we have a morjaority who seem like minded and then we have the normal sprinkling of conspericey anal probe alian forset fary folks or even worse…... folks like GRYM.  What about the general public?  Looking out there one sees many different worries and concerns on the streets.  I suspect many people are worried about who is going to be in the super bowl now that the Giants won the world series.
Damn!.....How can I make it through the day, now that Cristal Palin got kicked off dancing down the stairs!

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By BR549, December 4, 2010 at 12:20 pm Link to this comment

GRYM,
You may or may not be correct on Assange’s personal; motives. Who knows? The important issue is, if nothing else, the exposure
of filth of the lies, disdain, intolerance, and dishonesty exhibited by the very people we have elected to represented.

I don’t know about you but the Wikileaks release is like a look in our collective mirror and I don’t think the majority of Americans
are liking what they see. It takes a pretty shallow mind to view this solely as a violation or an attack on our national security. If we
are putting ourselves out there as being stewards and standard bearers, then we have (had) a moral obligation to actually be that
better country and act accordingly. On the other hand, if our foreign policy was just smoke and mirrors and a complete line of
bullshit, then the Bopal disaster was just an unfortunate blip on a corporate annual report and who are these idiots outside with the
protest signs.

No, Assange, aside from his motives, has done this country a HUGE favor by making it easier for us to look in that mirror and
reassess what we see. The man needs a Nobel Peace Prize.

As far as the claim that the material released wouldn’t satisfy conspiracy theorists, yes it would, because the WHOLE point is how
corrupt and secretive and disingenuous that the people are who claim to represent our interest as Americans. And even throwing
around the term “conspiracy theorist” on goes to show a visceral disdain that some have toward people who seek to pull our
character out of the sewer. Interestingly, the movie with Mel Gibson and Julia Roberts by the same name only showed that
everything Gibson’s character was pointing out had been true all along.

“Conspiracy Theorist” is the moniker that uninformed dismissive denialists give to people who have the courage to stand out and
say when something doesn’t smell right. And these people are now proving themselves to have been not too far off the mark. So,
what would you call it when the village idiot tries to warn everyone and is the only one who leaves town before the dam bursts and
drowns everyone else? No, that dam looks fine, huh?

Excuse me, I have to go refold my tin foil hat .... again.

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By Inherit The Wind, December 4, 2010 at 12:17 pm Link to this comment

Enjoy your fantasy world, GRYMey.

You haven’t cited ONE example where the Wikileaks has actually put someone at risk.  What has been revealed is all the dirt that’s been swept under the carpets and has started to stink.

There were people who wanted Daniel Ellsberg killed, too, just like they want Assange killed, but the success of our democratic system, if it is to succeed, depends on having “secrets” aired rather than just trusting, blindly. 

While I have no objection to keeping codes and missile launch sequences top secret, and advance knowledge of actions, as well as troop movements, when secrecy is used solely to cover the asses of lying, corrupt, incompetents, it’s just plain wrong.

As with the Pentagon papers, what we are seeing is that classification is used again and again NOT to protect the nation, but to protect individuals.  Is it REALLY so bad to learn that an Afghan official has absconded with $52 million American tax-payer dollars?

Of course, you vigorously defended the “outing” of Valerie Plame Wilson, solely for the political gains of the White House, to cover a lie to support an illegal and unnecessary war that has cost 4,500 American lives, some 30,000 casualties, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives.  These documents released by that “horrible criminal” show that THOSE lives were lost intending to weaken Iran and had just the opposite effect.  Where’s your outrage?  Nowhere!

Nor are you very loud in criticizing a data system that was so blatantly f***ed up a private (allegedly) was able to down-load files far removed from his job description.  Virtually every corporation I’ve ever worked with, or my colleagues have worked with, give you access to what you need, and don’t give you access to what you don’t.  Even in our little building my key card only works in certain doors.  This is fundamental security 101.  Wikileaks would NEVER have had a shot at this unless there was such basic incompetence.  And he’s shown us that, too, that our security is managed by incompetent idiots at EVERY level.

Guess that lead-painted imitation-gold halo is started to choke, it’s slipped so much.

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By Go Right Young Man, December 4, 2010 at 11:28 am Link to this comment

ITW,

You know you’ve lost any debate when all you have left is a personal attack to hurl from your satchel of tricks. You could not possibly appear weaker on this subject.

Now go beat up on Bristol Palin….LOL.

-

When, ITW?

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By Inherit The Wind, December 4, 2010 at 10:03 am Link to this comment

Watch it, GRYMey:

That cheap, imported phony Chinese-made lead-painted halo you are wearing is slipping and is gonna choke you.

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By Go Right Young Man, December 4, 2010 at 9:33 am Link to this comment

BR549 - RayLan - ITW


For several reasons the group of people behind WikiLeaks is far more likely to do harm than to enlighten. If you plow through some of Mr. Assange’s writings, you find the garbled, self-righteous prose of an anarchist with a deep distrust of all governments and institutions. Not simply the U.S..  He does seem to believe he can disrupt the U.S. government, and presumably other governments as well, by publishing masses of secret information.

in his writings Assange sees deep government conspiracies everywhere, but believes, with twisted logic, that the U.S. system is easy to disrupt because it is so open. His goal is to make it harder for the system as a whole to function - not to right a specific wrong.

And although journalists have extracted some good stories from the material - on Pakistan, Iran, China, and North Korea - there is little that has not been written about before.

These recent leaks reveal no plots or scandals. Even the leftish British newspaper the Guardian, one of the first to receive documents from Assange, admitted to its readers: “The cables are unlikely to gratify conspiracy theorists. They do not contain evidence of assassination plots, CIA bribery, or such criminal enterprises as the Iran-Contra scandal in the Reagan years. ...”

Instead, by dumping large amounts of unfiltered data without concern for the contents, Assange has endangered many innocent lives. The documents expose hundreds of U.S. informants who could be arrested. - Many have been killed in Afghanistan.  Human-rights organizations fear the leaks will endanger activists and journalists whose names are in U.S. cables. Newspapers that received the leaks have carefully redacted any such names, but as Assange puts secret cables online, he has already proven to not be so discreet.

-

Hypocrisy.

Break the law for something you believe in during the Bush years and most here believe jail time is warranted. Break the law for something you believe in today and you’re a veritable hero to be held up as an example of goodness.

Let’s not hear any more about how moral and ethical each of you is.

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By drbhelthi, December 4, 2010 at 5:18 am Link to this comment

Wow! How accurate can summaries be!

However, one possible qualification.
“If reports are correct, two women, who possibly could be CIA or Mossad assets, have brought sex charges against Assange.”

Perhaps the two are only common, swedish whores, similar to the operator of the ISP that hosted WIKI, all bought off by CIA US dollars and threats.
If the operators of the ISP had gonads, they would publish the threats/bribes that influenced their cowardly behavior.

The whorefuckees, I can excuse.  They provide a useful social service.  However, self-respecting prostitutes are some of the most honest folk I have ever known. Trading honesty for US $$ bribes is beneath the dignity of a reliable prostitute. Take “Paula Jones”, for example.

I use the term CIA/MOSSAD $$, as both are longsince funded via US dollars. The two have worked hand-in-hand, since CIA/israeli/MOSSAD types, such as Lieberman,  overtook the US Congress.  Speaking of “homeland terrorist types” ??? Or, does he possess only an israeli passport?  Attacking WIKIleaks is one of many such required functions of Lieberman.  For what other reason would he have been placed in the position?  Just another high-level, israeli puppet, destroying the U.S.A.

Anyway, the “loading-job” of the Twin-Towers and the third building, by MOSSAD-types, at the behest of the U.S.CIA, and the support/explosives provided the MOSSAD-types, reflect their cooperative function. 

However, which of them had the foresight to torch israeli villages, and distract the world-wide critique, deserved by recent publication of israeli international atrocities?  Similar to the mode used by Israelis, of warming-up the guilt of Germans with the six-million figure. Germans who are two generations away from the NAZI era, only a very few of whom hang onto the NAZI, family thread.  Engendering world-wide sympathy by torching its villages, covering over the world-wide criticisms, was/is a neat trick.  But, also this is just another repetition of typical, Israeli deceit.

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By JimBob, December 4, 2010 at 1:05 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Good one, Bob.  Finally, you’re not talking about people’s houses being foreclosed.  You’re absolutely right that Clinton should be addressing the issues raised by WL, but I’m afraid the MSM is carrying the day with their, “Assange to the Gallows!” cry.

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By Arabian Sinbad, December 3, 2010 at 11:14 pm Link to this comment

My summary points:

1. Cables are not property to be labeled as “stolen;” the person who calls such things as stolen, must have lost any commonsense. So Hillary Clinton joins the armies of politicians who are part of the problem and not the solution.

2. Assange as a person and WikiLeaks as an institution are the best thing that happened in favor of truth as of late. Theirs is the noblest endeavor that deserves the moral and financial support of all free spirits who abhor corruption, falsehoods and the evil works of darkness, and embrace instead freedom, true democracy and basic decency.

3. Any effort to silence Assange and WikiLeaks is an evil plot against freedom of speech and truth and against political activism, and in favor of fascism and the rule of police state.

4. Basic commonsense dictates that those who conspire in darkness and in secret know that they are doing wrong things in need to be covered from the public. Thus, they are the enemies of truth-diggers and whistle blowers.

5. Those who talk about diplomatic secrets that need to be guarded in fact don’t understand the true spirit of diplomacy, which is in itself a public relation activity between nations.

6. Based on this fact, Hillary Clinton must be voted as the worst diplomat ever in the history of the so-called diplomacy.

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By radson, December 3, 2010 at 8:45 pm Link to this comment

Tao Walker

Yes I agree: It’s all about ‘Mitakuye Oyasin’ perhaps one day more will understand ,but is time with us or against us all.

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By gerard, December 3, 2010 at 8:17 pm Link to this comment

“The idea that Wikileaks is a threat to the traditional practice of reporting misses the point of what Assange and his co-workers have put together - a powerful tool that can help reporters circumvent the legal barriers that are making it hard for them to do their job. Even as he criticizes the evident failures of the mainstream press, Assange insists that Wikileaks should facilitate traditional reporting and analysis. “We’re the step before the first person (investigates),” he explained, when accepting Amnesty International’s award for exposing police killings in Kenya. “Then someone who is familiar with that material needs to step forward to investigate it and put it in political context. Once that is done, then it becomes of public interest.”


“Wikileaks is a powerful new way for reporters and human rights advocates to leverage global information technology systems to break the heavy veil of government and corporate secrecy that is slowly suffocating the American press. The likely arrest of Assange in Britain on dubious Swedish sex crimes charges has nothing to do with the importance of the system he has built, and which the US government seems intent on destroying with tactics more appropriate to the Communist Party of China—pressuring Amazon to throw the site off their servers, and, one imagines by launching the powerful DDOS attacks that threatened to stop visitors from reading the pilfered cables.

—from David Samuels, The Atlantic 12/3/10
“Shameful Attacks on Julian Assange”

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By TAO Walker, December 3, 2010 at 6:55 pm Link to this comment

Sure, as “plainsman” suggests, the imbecilic McCain refrain, “Bomb-bomb-bomb…bomb-bomb-Iran!” is a prominent feature of the wikileaked material.  That’s the most-likely next step anyhow (following several, probably WMD, false-flag state-perpetrated “terrorist” attacks, in U.S. and other places) toward “global” lock-down.  There must be Portland-teenage-bomber types, under shadow-government supervision, all-over the world. 

What remains to be seen is whether the super-boobies can maneuver their patsies into doing the dirty-bomb wet-work for them, on the scale necessary to accomplish their megalomaniacal purpose.  Will the “huddled masses” stampede in panic into the meant-to-be-inescapable trap disguised as the “global” “novus ordo seclorum”?  Or will it all blow-up in their own false faces?

To “fearnotruth” and “radson,” this Old Savage would say only….Mitakuye Oyasin.  We are all related.

HokaHey!

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By Tim, December 3, 2010 at 5:31 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I’d like to ask Truthdig to end their partnership with Amazon.com through the Truthdig online store. It would mean something to me for Truthdig to disassociate themselves from those who decide to be impediments to free speech. Of course, I’m refering to Amazon terminating Wikileaks use of Amazon servers.

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sallysense's avatar

By sallysense, December 3, 2010 at 4:47 pm Link to this comment

(gee)...

‘///
00
o
O

“for the sake of all the lives and resources that have already been wasted away!... and for the sake of saving future lives and resources from being wasted away too!... the truth needs to be exposed!”...


\\\
00
o
o

“yes indeed!... i just donated to wikileaks!... for a $10.00 euro donation it cost $13.19 us via my debit card”...

support wikileaks!... http://wikileaks.ch

the best of wishes’n'ways’n'todays to each’n'everyone!... smile

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By sallysense, December 3, 2010 at 12:47 pm Link to this comment

when representatives of a government rely on a system of deception to get things done… it’s that deceptive system itself which should be its country’s biggest fear!...

“let facts be submitted to a candid world”... (from the united states “declaration of independence”)...

(gee)...

‘///
00
o
O

“if only the big shot’s efforts to hide the truth would be used instead to clean up the way things get done!... for if it was already honest and decent enough they’d be begging for this stuff to be made public!”...

\\\
00
o
o

“they’re afraid to face the truth… and admit that so many humans and resources have been wasted away thanks to the illusions that are propagated and the deceptive ways that are being used!”...

and big money keeps scamming a country so badly…
capitol hill still can’t tell it’s been conned!...
folks duped by few choices to cast their votes madly…
elect a slim chance for fairness to stand on!...

(and also… schools should teach students how everyone’s standard human perception uses illusion which can distort something from being seen “as it actually is”... into something else when thoughts (already in the mind) substitute their own ‘pictures’ (or connotations etc) instead…

then mental pictures that resurface as ignorant social or racial or extremist or manipulative bias etc are less apt to make big impacts as they’ll have advantages of being more prone to use added consideration as they live with themselves and others in our world here!)...

(and those who don’t think people need to know about illusion are already under its influence more than they realize!)...

things need to change to get better!... lotsa stuff to do to expose the truth!... and let accountability take its first steps towards betterment!...

the best of wishes’n'ways’n'todays to each’n'everyone!... smile

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, December 3, 2010 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment

December 2, 2010

How the Government and Its Press Flacks Collude in Lies

What the Wiki-Saga Teaches Us

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

“The reaction to WikiLeaks and its founder, Julian Assange tells us all we need to know about the total corruption of our “modern” world, which in fact is a throwback to the Dark Ages. 

Some member of the United States government released to WikiLeaks the documents that are now controversial. The documents are controversial, because they are official US documents and show all too clearly that the US government is a duplicitous entity whose raison d’etre is to control every other government.

The media, not merely in the US but also throughout the English speaking world and Europe, has shown its hostility to WikiLeaks.  The reason is obvious. WikiLeaks reveals truth, while the media covers up for the US government and its puppet states.

Why would anyone with a lick of sense read the media when they can read original material from WikiLeaks?  The average american reporter and editor must be very angry that his/her own cowardice is so clearly exposed by Julian Assange. The american media is a whore, whereas the courageous blood of warriors runs through WikiLeaks’ veins.

Just as american politicians want Bradley Manning executed because he revealed crimes of the US government, they want Julian Assange executed. In the past few days the more notorious of the dumbshits that sit in the US Congress have denounced Assange as a “traitor to america.” What total ignorance. Assange is an Australian, not an american citizen. To be a traitor to america, one has to be of the nationality. An Australilian cannot be a traitor to america any more than an american can be a traitor to Australia. But don’t expect the morons who represent the lobbyists to know this much.

Mike Huckabee, the redneck baptist preacher who was governor of arkansas and, to
america’s already overwhelming shame, was third runner up to the Republican presidential nomination, has called for Assange’s execution. So here we have a “man of God” calling for the US government to murder an Australian citizen.
  And americans wonder why the rest of the world hates their guts.

The material leaked from the US government to WikiLeaks shows that the US government is an extremely disreputable gang of gangsters. The US government was able to get British prime minister Brown to “fix” the official Chilcot Investigation into how former prime minister Tony Blair manipulated and lied the British government into being mercenaries for the US invasion of Iraq. One of the “diplomatic” cables released has UK Defense Ministry official Jon Day promising the United States government that prime minister Brown’s government has “put measures in place to protect your interests.”

Other cables show the US government threatening Spanish prime minister Zapatero, ordering him to stop his criticisms of the Iraq war or else. I mean, really, how dare these foreign governments to think that they are sovereign.

Not only foreign governments are under the US thumb. So is Amazon.com. Joe Lieberman from Connecticut, who is Israel’s most influential senator in the US Senate, delivered sufficiently credible threats to Amazon to cause the company to oust WikiLeaks content from their hosting service.

Assange is in hiding. He fears CIA and Mossad assassination, and to add to his troubles the government of Sweden has changed its mind, perhaps as a result of american persuasion and money, about sex charges that the Swedish government had previously dismissed for lack of credibility. If reports are correct, two women, who possibly could be CIA or Mossad assets, have brought sex charges against Assange.

~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for the rest:

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts12022010.html

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By Leefeller, December 3, 2010 at 10:00 am Link to this comment

Wiki Leaks seems to be the planned leaking of revelations stuffing the masses with consumption even though uninterested they are, all in the order to blame collateral damage on something other than the responsible ones. What seems most amusing, is in deluded world of politics responsibility is rated right next to accountability, with both being non existent.

Hilliary by association, I go to a most remembered comment stated by her spouse, which shows the same presence of mind with a slight liberty taken by me from the original comment;...... “Depends on what you mean by truth”

So we now have the Saudis and Israel working together towards a common goal, which for very known reasons does not happen to be an unknown thing called peace?

What war?

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drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, December 3, 2010 at 6:22 am Link to this comment

When revealing the truth causes so much political
puking as “Wikileaks” has caused in the western
world, something is badly wrong.

So deftly stated by several folk, the only ones hurt
by the recent WIKILEAKS revelations are “scumbags”
who are deceiving by hiding the truth.

Illigitimum non carborundum.  Or, dont let the
bastards grind you down.

I just hope I am not the only one who is tripling
ones donation to WIKI.

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By fearnotruth, December 3, 2010 at 3:38 am Link to this comment

Wikileaks’ psyop going viral

e.g. in the American Conservative Magazine, no less, of all places

http://www.amconmag.com/blog/2010/12/01/if-wikileaks-is-a-psyop-whose-psyop-is-it/

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By Dennis, December 3, 2010 at 2:59 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Sure the US wants to execute Assange. They probably know eventually that one cable will identify the Bush gang as organizers of 9/11. It’s there. Israel has a copy of Bush authorizing the attacks. They use this document to blackmail the US govt. and thus have a free hand in the middle east. How else to explain how Israel can continue to embarrass the Obama administration.
The wikileaks are truly amazing. They show quite clearly what bullies the US is vis a vis the world community. I guess this is to be expected since we have nothing really to offer the world in terms of ideas or ideals. The only thing the US is good at exporting is war and weaponry. What a sad, pathetic nation we have become.

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By Robert, December 3, 2010 at 12:37 am Link to this comment

Jahanpour: US following Israeli 5-Point Plan on Iran: Wikileaks


December 2, 2010 by Juan Cole


What is truly alarming about the new batch of Wikileaks diplomatic files is the extent to which US politicians and their Israeli allies are obsessed with Iran. There is virtually no talk of Israeli colonial settlements on the West Bank, the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, the war crimes in Gaza, the attack on the aid flotilla, and Israel’s arsenal of hundreds of nuclear weapons, but there is constant preoccupation with Iran’s uranium enrichment and whether Israel or the United States should attack Iran first.

The media has dwelt almost exclusively on the remarks of the Saudi King Abdullah’s ambassador in Washington, calling on America to “cut off the head of this snake”. There are quotes from the rulers of other Western friends in the Middle East, Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE and Jordan, repeating what American officials wanted to hear, namely that Iran’s nuclear ambitions pose an “existential threat” to them…

By latching on to the alleged remarks of these autocratic rulers, Western media has tried to convey the idea that Iran does not only pose an “existential threat” to Israel, but to all those other friends of the West as well.

However, the Arab rulers’ nightmare is that while they hate Iran for obvious reasons, most of their subjects look up to Iran as the only country in the region that is championing the Palestinian cause and is standing up to Israel and the West. According to the most recent poll, carried out by the US Zogby polling organisation and the University of Maryland, in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan and other pro-western Arab states, a majority of the respondents even had a positive view of the possibility of Iran acquiring nuclear weapons. Asked which countries threatened their security, 88% replied Israel, 77% the US and just 10% Iran.1 It is not that US diplomats don’t understand these facts, they have just lost all sight of reality, democratic principles and America’s long-term interests. The experiences of supporting Saddam Hussein, General Musharraf and other dictators should have proved to them that relying on undemocratic rulers would backfire, not to say that it is contrary to the democratic principles that they claim that they are championing.
~~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for the rest:

http://www.juancole.com/

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By fearnotruth, December 3, 2010 at 12:25 am Link to this comment

RE: By radson, December 3 at 2:44 am Link to this comment
Fearnotruth
You remind me of Robert.I don’t think that TAO requires that kind of assistance.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

how about we leave that up to TAO Walker, if one old indian is to be chastised for
expanding on a comment by another old indian - Hoka Hey, It’s a Good Day to
Die!

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By Conden, December 2, 2010 at 11:02 pm Link to this comment

Hillary Clinton is an ultra-cynical, corrupt, war criminal scumbag.  She should resign, and I’m glad her and the right wing imperialist obama administration are being exposed for what they are.  Wikileaks is admirable for landing major strikes against this disgusting system.  The soldiers should be forced to pull back, the state department should be humiliated and isolated from the rest of the world for the bloodsucking pariahs they are.

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By gerard, December 2, 2010 at 10:35 pm Link to this comment

Correction:  The Assange Statement:

http://zunguzungu.wordpress.com/

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By radson, December 2, 2010 at 9:44 pm Link to this comment

Fearnotruth
You remind me of Robert.I don’t think that TAO requires that kind of assistance.

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By sophrosyne, December 2, 2010 at 9:42 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hillary is one of many who have lots to hide.  Wikileaks lifted the curtain a wee bit so we could see what is really behind our whacked our foreign policy that works against America and its self-interest.  We are not allowed much more than a peek though.

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By plainsman, December 2, 2010 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment

Hey TAO Walker,

You missed the point. WikiLeaks appears to be all about marketing; an odd form of marketing, but marketing none the less. From what I have read there is next to no information about Is ra el and lots to suggest that attacking Iran is a good idea.

They’re setting up the next war, in other words.

I agree with you that this is all headed towards a DEAD END. I look forward to the day when citizens of the US wake up.

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