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Posted on Dec 6, 2010
AP / Jacob Silberberg

Two Iraqi men detained by Americans in 2006.

By Chris Hedges

Innocence, as defined by law, makes us complicit with the crimes of the state. To do nothing, to be judged by the state as an innocent, is to be guilty. It is to sanction, through passivity and obedience, the array of crimes carried out by the state.

To be innocent in America means we passively permit offshore penal colonies where we torture human beings, some of whom are children. To be innocent in America is to acquiesce to the relentless corporate destruction of the ecosystem that sustains the human species. To be innocent in America is to permit the continued theft of hundreds of billions of dollars from the state by Wall Street swindlers and speculators. To be innocent in America is to stand by as insurance and pharmaceutical companies, in the name of profit, condemn ill people, including children, to die. To be innocent in America is refusing to resist wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that are not only illegal under international law but responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands of people. This is the odd age we live in. Innocence is complicity.

The steady impoverishment and misery inflicted by the corporate state on the working class and increasingly the middle class has a terrible logic. It consolidates corporate centers of power. It weakens us morally and politically. The fraud and violence committed by the corporate state become secondary as we scramble to feed our families, find a job and pay our bills and mortgages. Those who cling to insecure, poorly paid jobs and who struggle with crippling credit card debt, those who are mired in long-term unemployment and who know that huge medical bills would bankrupt them, those who owe more on their houses than they are worth and who fear the future, become frightened and timid. They seek only to survive. They accept the pathetic scraps tossed to them by the corporate elite. The internal and external corporate abuse accelerates as we become every day more pliant. 

Our corrupt legal system, perverting the concept that “all men are created equal,” has radically redefined civic society. Citizens, regardless of their status or misfortune, are now treated with the same studied indifference by the state. They have been transformed from citizens to commodities whose worth is determined solely by the market and whose value is measured by their social and economic functions. The rich, therefore, are rewarded by the state with tax cuts because they are rich. It is their function to monopolize wealth and invest. The poor are supposed to be poor. The poor should not be a drain on the resources of the state or the oligarchic elite. Equality, in this new legal paradigm, means we are all treated alike, no matter what our circumstances. This new interpretation of equality, under which the poor are abandoned and the powerful are unchecked, has demolished the system of regulations, legal restraints and services that once protected the
underclass from wealthy and corporate predators.

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The creation of a permanent, insecure and frightened underclass is the most effective weapon to thwart rebellion and resistance as our economy worsens. Huge pools of unemployed and underemployed blunt labor organizing, since any job, no matter how menial, is zealously coveted. As state and federal social welfare programs, especially in education, are gutted, we create a wider and wider gulf between the resources available to the tiny elite and the deprivation and suffering visited on our permanent underclass. Access to education, for example, is now largely defined by class. The middle class, taking on huge debt, desperately flees to private institutions to make sure their children have a chance to enter the managerial ranks of the corporate elite. And this is the idea. Public education, which, when it functions, gives opportunities to all citizens, hinders a system of corporate neofeudalism. Corporations are advancing, with Barack Obama’s assistance, charter schools and educational services that are stripped down and designed to train classes for their appropriate vocations, which, if you’re poor means a future in the service sector. The eradication of teachers’ unions, under way in states such as New Jersey, is a vital component in the dismantling of public education. Corporations know that good systems of public education are a hindrance to a rigid caste system. In corporate America everyone will be kept in his or her place.

The beating down of workers, exacerbated by the prospect that unemployment benefits will not be renewed for millions of Americans and that public sector unions will soon be broken, has transformed those in the working class from full members of society, able to participate in its debates, the economy and governance, into terrified people in fragmented pools preoccupied with the struggle of private existence. Those who are economically broken usually cease to be concerned with civic virtues. They will, history has demonstrated, serve any system, no matter how evil, and do anything for a salary, job security and the protection of their families.

There will be sectors of the society that, as the situation worsens, attempt to rebel. But the state can rely on a huge number of people who, for work and meager benefits, will transform themselves into willing executioners. The reconfiguration of American society into a corporate oligarchy is conditioning tens of millions not only to passively accept state and corporate crimes, but to actively participate in the mechanisms that ensure their own enslavement.

“Each time society, through unemployment, frustrates the small man in his normal functioning and normal self-respect,” Hannah Arendt wrote in her 1945 essay “Organized Guilt and Universal Responsibility,” “it trains him for that last stage in which he will willingly undertake any function, even that of hangman.”


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LocalHero's avatar

By LocalHero, December 25, 2010 at 11:11 pm Link to this comment

Patriot10101,

You’ve obviously spent too much time in government-run schools. The only goal of government - all government - is this—

“The supreme law of the State is self-preservation at any cost. All States, ever since they came to exist upon the earth, have been condemned to perpetual struggle – a struggle against their own populations, whom they oppress and ruin. A struggle against all foreign States, every one of which can be strong only if the others are weak. And since the States cannot hold their own in this struggle unless they constantly keep on augmenting their power against their own subjects as well as against other States, it follows that the supreme law of the State is the augmentation of its power to the detriment of internal liberty and external justice.”

      – The Immorality of the State, 1870

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By elisalouisa, December 25, 2010 at 5:01 pm Link to this comment

A planned attack Chip as more than one thread has such comments by “Nixon is Lord” (coverup name for a socialist?) who finds pleasure in what some might term mild sadism. 

Happy holidays to all.

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By chip, December 25, 2010 at 4:29 pm Link to this comment

Thanks again Chris for speaking what I would.
If I was literate.

Please ignore the uninformed folks that seem to hate you but continue to read your material.
Maybe they are sadists?

I only had to hear Beck and Palin once.

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By Nixon is Lord, December 25, 2010 at 1:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hedges is so preachy and pitiful and full of himself.
  Every time I hear him or read one of his articles I am relieved that I do not believe in god.
  The only thing worse than a preacher is an ex-preacher.
  Another Jeremiad from a would-be “prophet”.

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moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 13, 2010 at 1:35 pm Link to this comment

Sockpuppet Puppies:

Not my fault that you have nothing in your life but trolling.

No tienen madre.

You continue to dig towards China—it may be the country of the future, but not for gringos.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, December 12, 2010 at 11:39 pm Link to this comment

Mooncrow,

You claim education, yet all you post is shit, shit, and more shit.  No ideas, no facts and reasoned logic, no hypotheses, just insults and abusive name-calling.  You contribute nothing.  Even posters whose posts drive me crazy like Robert and GRYM (a lefty and a righty) have a thousand times more substance in their posts than you can ever dream of contributing.

Then you whine like the spoiled child you are when anyone calls you out—an abusive bigot and racist.

You dish it out but you cannot take it.

PH has his share of typos.  In your lexicon, that makes him an inferior being, worthy of an attack on his mother.

Your posts are useless, and, I suspect you are too.

PH, don’t waste any more time on this person.  There are much better fights to be fought.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, December 12, 2010 at 9:09 pm Link to this comment

Moonraver,

And who’s madre are you? 

It would be a shame for your charming personality to die along with you.  At least you have had an opportunity to serve as an example, albeit a bad example.

Now go back to your streetcorner.

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moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 12, 2010 at 8:47 pm Link to this comment

Sorry, pattyboy, but:

Never was a “patriot”, therefore cannot be an “expatriot”.

The word is “expatriate”.

Just keep digging.  Maybe it’s true that China’s down there someplace.  Or the treasure of the Sierra Madre.

But then, folks like you have no madre.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, December 12, 2010 at 8:43 pm Link to this comment

moonraver,

It is reassuring that an expatriot such as yourself still finds time to school us poor posters on the finer points of the English language, at least the point got across.

Now being so fluent in so many languages, please feel free to make an ass out of yourself on multiple websites in multiple languages as the venom comes through in any language.

A malcontent is the same in any language.

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moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 12, 2010 at 8:27 pm Link to this comment

pattycaker:

Reaks aint a word, kid.  At least not in any of the languages that I know.  Perhaps you meant “reeks”, or “wreaks”....

Ni modo, socks come in pairs.  Insert the one your sockpuppet Inherit the Windbag ain’t using in your gob.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, December 12, 2010 at 8:17 pm Link to this comment

Moonraver,

Your persona reaks of hate and pigheadedness.

” Cholos, little bigot boy, do not exist in southern Mexico”

With you there I guess they do now.

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moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 12, 2010 at 8:07 pm Link to this comment

pattycake:

1.  Yep, little boy, I have been a US citizen longer than you have—born and raised in Washington State.

2.  No hate nor pigheadedness in my body.  I am, very simply, RIGHT.  You, on the other hand, are just here to jerk off and snicker—typical behavior for a 9 year old.

3.  Cholos, little bigot boy, do not exist in southern Mexico. 

Ah, the ignorant gringo goon slings his excrement and snickers.

Pathetic.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, December 12, 2010 at 4:14 pm Link to this comment

Moonraver,

You a citizen of Gringolandia? what a laugh.

I do know you are fluent in the languages of hate and pigheadedness.  Should come in useful on Chola night in the barrio.

No, that wasn’t me marching for the ‘canned’ Patriot Act after 9/11.  That pearl of legislation was passed by those in our own government who speak 7 languages and thought they knew about others cultures where legislation like the Patriot Act is already in place….like Mexico.

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moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 12, 2010 at 2:36 pm Link to this comment

pattycake:

Your kindergarten sneers are pretty ineffective against this US citizen.

But, of course, under the Patriot Acts that you march in support of, ANYONE can be murdered or deported—US citizen or not.

Everyone is expendable—but especially folks with no skills whose racist bullying makes them unwelcome outside the confines of Gringolandia, as times are not only tough, but they are going to get much tougher.

Only those of us who speak 7 languages, respect other cultures and who move like fish in the water anyplace in the world have a laf-assed chance of surviving.

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drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, December 12, 2010 at 12:21 pm Link to this comment

This insightful overview of Chris Hedges explains the
status quo.  Devastating, when coupled with the
hundreds of „Green Card“ offers made on-line, around
the world, by the US State Department. 
“WORK AND LIVE IN THE USA.” 
Work ?
Where ? 
How can the US Gov make such libellous offers, unless
the US Gov offers them employment?
Employment that is not available to Citizens of the
USA?  Genuine citizens born in the USA, educated in
the USA, well-qualified for a job?  A job that is
being offered to foreigners, by US Gov quasi-
treasonists, behind the “Green Card” hypocrisy? 
Whose salaries are paid by Tax Monies of the American
Citizenry? 

Are foreigners needed to operate the 50,000
guillotines shipped into the US from China, three
years ago, 30,000 of which were sent to Georgia,
allegedly?
This “Green Card” hypocrisy should be STOPPED.
Immediately.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, December 12, 2010 at 11:20 am Link to this comment

moonraver,

Be sure to bring a snorkel next time you cross the river and maybe you won’t be caught and deported.  We need english speaking illegals to teach the non speaking ones how to trim the bushes.

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By elisalouisa, December 12, 2010 at 9:31 am Link to this comment

It is rare to find one such as Chris Hedges, who understands the frailties of
humankind, committed week after week to awakening the people with his words of truth conveyed in his unique writing style. Mr. Hedges does give us the solution, a solution most do not wish to hear. A change within must take place. Such change, a watershed so to speak, can lead to protest, such as what is taking place by that seat-of- power on December 16. Some have unease about Mr. Hedges participating in this event. I share than concern for I value Mr. Hedges timely comments and do not wish that weekly event to be jeopardized. The issue with some as to Mr. Hedges may be personal, in the past one poster expressing a desire to “get him.”  Like others, Chris Hedges is human, all too human I’m afraid, my hope is that such aims are never fulfilled.
I do not enjoy nor have the time to engage in lengthy exchanges concerning points of disagreement. A war of words rarely does good as parts of this thread confirm, each poster becoming more determined to gain the upper hand.

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David J. Cyr's avatar

By David J. Cyr, December 12, 2010 at 8:14 am Link to this comment

When I was young, in the 60’s, we boycotted the products of the nastiest corporations we most despised.

Today’s young focus their purchasing power on the corporations they most admire… the ones with more “LIKES” than others.

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kulu's avatar

By kulu, December 12, 2010 at 4:24 am Link to this comment

Alas, if it was only America going down the plughole I could bear it. But it’s not, its the Western world, those Scandinavian higher level states included, as the Wikileak’s exposures make abundantly clear.  What are we to do? Perhaps the attacks by Anonymous provide one among many means to fight the beast.

What I do know is that, as one poster suggested, simply backing off from supporting corporations through continued consumption of their products is, while to be encouraged, still futile. Consumers operate within the framework laid down for and by us over decades.

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By exploitedtimes, December 11, 2010 at 9:58 pm Link to this comment

Hedges you are right on, great quote from Solzhenitsyn. It is so true - the passive conspirators are weak, and can they be blamed? All they want is to be with their families and not think, not ask questions. It takes strength to draw a line that might jeopardize the security of complacency. I have felt this line drawn between myself and many of my friends who are complicit in hanging themselves, and it is very sad in more ways than one. Thank you for great perspective and great writing.

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moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 11, 2010 at 2:48 pm Link to this comment

BTW, Narcissist:

Cuidad isn’t a word in Spanish. 

Ciudad is—but that means city.

The common phrase you should have used is actually one word, “¡Cuidado!” (abbreviation of the phrase, “Que tenga cuidado…”)

Like I said, you don’t speak Spanish.

Hoist on your own petard is the appropriate phrase for your condition.

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By frecklefever, December 11, 2010 at 2:33 pm Link to this comment

” WORDS AMBITIOUSLY MINED EXPOSE THE DILETTANTE GEMOLOGISTS LITTLE CAESAR WORLD”

TWO SUNS

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moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 11, 2010 at 1:33 pm Link to this comment

Every post but one since yesterday is offtopic and a sockpuppet attack on me.

Really laden with content are you clowns!

BTW:  Narcissist’s apocryphal account (has to be since he does not speak spanish) of the Mexican woman in the UNITED STATES who wouldn’t allow the use of the word gringo:  I couldn’t stop laughing.

Nobody says estadunidense nor norteamericano (one word, clowns) because there are too long to say and are not mellifluous.  Here in Mexico the sound is very frequently even more important than the sense of the word.

But you gringos wouldn’t know that as you have never been to Mexico (much less lived here twenty years now), know no spanish and certainly have not taught the language—including Redaction—in Mexican universities for many years like I have.

But, keep right on chin*ando, fellas—nobody does arrogant ignorance and knowitallism like gringos!

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By Inherit The Wind, December 11, 2010 at 11:53 am Link to this comment

Thanks, Anarcissie.

Of course, “Gringo” is a a derogatory racist term. The proper polite term is “Norte Americano (or Americana)”.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, December 10, 2010 at 10:04 pm Link to this comment

Incidentally, in regard to ‘gringo’, I advise not using it among Mexicans when in polite company.  Several years ago I saw a middle-class Mexican woman slap her grown son, hard, for jocularly addressing one of his Anglo friends with that term, after which she said, ‘Don’t you dare use such language to a guest in my house.’  (In Spanish, of course.)  Now, if only he had been a Native American Latin-American revolutionary with a PhD in English who made a habit of visiting plastic-progressive estadounidenses websites, maybe he could have gotten away with it.  Hispanic culture can be tricky.  I recommend cuidad.

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By Inherit The Wind, December 10, 2010 at 9:26 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie, December 11 at 1:50 am Link to this comment

I think you’ll find that most abuse is pretty content-free.  Hence I recommend not bothering with it, unless it offers an opportunity for humor.
*****************

“So, there’s these two posters, see, and they were really into raggin’ on all the other posters, see.  Nobody could post anything without one jumpin’ in and calling anyone who disagreed with her all kinds of names.  And the other one, see, described how anyone who disagreed with her was sick in the head see…..

So one day these two posters run into each other and the first one say…..”

Nah, that just doesn’t work as a standup routine.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, December 10, 2010 at 8:50 pm Link to this comment

I think you’ll find that most abuse is pretty content-free.  Hence I recommend not bothering with it, unless it offers an opportunity for humor.

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By Inherit The Wind, December 10, 2010 at 6:18 pm Link to this comment

Actually, Anarcisse, I think Elisalouisa was agreeing with Moonraven’s assessment of what a vile person I am.  Must be because I challenge both of them when they spew drivel or (in the case of one of them) hateful racist epithets.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, December 10, 2010 at 4:18 pm Link to this comment

elisalouisa, December 9 at 11:06 pm:

Your first paragraph. moonraven 12/9 at 8:30 pm is a gem. More than one poster, as TAO Walker puts it a “tag team perhaps,” find no redeeming qualities in the writing of Chris Hedges or what he stands for, perhaps because it doesn’t further their own agenda. ...

Well, Hedges certainly doesn’t further my agenda.  Most of the time, he tells us how awful and hopeless everything is—with much of which I am in agreement—but doesn’t seem to have any idea what to do about it.  There have been a few exceptions to that rule, such as in the present case where he’s going to chain himself to the White House fence.  This may pale in comparison with Mr. Assange’s doom, but it’s something.  Hedges has occasionally written about activists less depressed than himself, such as the Lynds, and I wish he’d do more of that, because doing something about the present state of affairs is my agenda.

On the other hand, awhile back he gave deplorable support to the intellectual property industry.  The less said about that, the better.

As a matter of fact, there are a number of participants in these forums who follow a similar formula: (1) Everything is really, really bad, and is going to get worse.  We’re going to hell in a handbasket.  (2) But I have or know of the secret ideology, philosophy, formula, magic, etc., which, if only employed by the masses, would save them.  (3) But they’re too dumb to get it. 

They often add,  (4) Anyone who disagrees with me will get the extensive personal abuse they so richly deserve.  (There, they’re going beyond the Hedges formula.)

I don’t think I need to name any names.

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By ResistanceLives, December 10, 2010 at 4:14 pm Link to this comment

Does anyone now if the group planning the Direct Action on the 16th would welcome
pro-wikileaks protesters as well?

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moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 10, 2010 at 3:07 pm Link to this comment

Inherit the Windbag:

I rest my case.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, December 10, 2010 at 2:51 pm Link to this comment

moonraven, December 10 at 7:22 pm Link to this comment

Inherit the Windbag:

Your infantile need to get your rocks off by posting racist epithets—not to mention your inexcusable agression of calling me a “shithead” are beyond pathetic.

Try putting a sock in it.
*************************

You can’t take what you continuously dish out.

I stand by my contention that you are a bigot and a racist.  I stand by my evidence of it.

If, EVEN ONCE, you tried civilized discourse, you’d find people would actually discuss ideas with you.  But that won’t happen.

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moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 10, 2010 at 2:22 pm Link to this comment

Inherit the Windbag:

Your infantile need to get your rocks off by posting racist epithets—not to mention your inexcusable agression of calling me a “shithead” are beyond pathetic.

Try putting a sock in it.

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drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, December 10, 2010 at 7:02 am Link to this comment

” - -:  My younger child is Mayan, from Guatemala and we adopted him as an infant.  I won’t put his name or picture on TD because I’m afraid of the crazies out there, like the ones who may resent Caucasians adopting a Native American child.” (by Inheret the Wind)

Withholding pictures of ones children from the internet, is a wise practice for all parents.  Perhaps not against “caucasian crazies” especially, but moreso “all crazies” that prey on young children.  Especially the wealthy politician deviates, so accurately described in “The Franklin Cover-Up, Child Abuse, Satanism, and Murder in Nebraska,” by former Senator John W. DeCamp. 

Another group to fear is the “Finders,”  investigated and accurately described by former FBI Chief in California, Mr. Ted Gunderson, in his chronicles.  This satanic group is authorized and supported by wealthy U.S. politicians.  These deviates utilize MK Ultra techniques to re-orient the basic values and thinking patterns of the children they kidnap and adapt into their captivity, and subsequent sexual abuse.

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By elisalouisa, December 9, 2010 at 6:06 pm Link to this comment

Your first paragraph. moonraven 12/9 at 8:30 pm is a gem.  More than
one poster, as TAO Walker puts it a “tag team perhaps,” find no redeeming
qualities in the writing of Chris Hedges or what he stands for, perhaps because it
doesn’t further their own agenda. One cannot help but wonder if Chris Hedges is
so disliked by some posters, why are they there early Monday morning
breathlessly awaiting his column?  I’ll tell you why, because Chris Hedges gets to
their very core of their being.
Don’t succumb to bullies such as more than follower of Chris Hedges has in the
past.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, December 9, 2010 at 5:50 pm Link to this comment

“Gringo is not a racist slur”

Then I guess neither is “Redskin”, “Jungle Bunny”, “Kike”, “Wop”, “Spic”, “Spade”, “Beaner”, “Wetback”, “Chief” (when used to address any N.A.), “Pommie”, “Frog”, “Hebe”, “Spear Chucker”, “Polack”, or “Nigger”.

Your memory is slipping, conveniently, of course.

But you ARE an extra-ordinary person: You’ve gotten Patrick Henry and me on the same side—when it comes to your posts.  Now if you can only get GRYM and Robert to side with us too, that would be QUITE the achievement.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, December 9, 2010 at 5:39 pm Link to this comment

moonraver,

“If the management of this site refuses to attempt to maintain a climate of civility on these threads, then I will stop posting here”.

Don’t let the proverbial door hit you in the ass on the way out.

ITW is right, your a racist and a bigot but hey, stick around and provide me some sport.

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moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 9, 2010 at 3:30 pm Link to this comment

Inherit the Wind again comes here to be abusive and not contribute anything to this thread except evidence that some folks in the US are mean-spirited bullies—and therefore completely congruent with the behavior of the US government.

1.  Gringo is not a racist slur.  I live in Mexico—and have made my home here now for 20 years—where it is common usage.  I will continue to use it.

2.  I have never referred to any poster—female or male—with the epithet “ugly old hag”.  I have referred, however to Hillary Clinto as a War Hag, and certainly defend my right to say what is obvious.

3.  Inherit the Wind is making things up about me as well as about other posters in a futile attempt to defend the indefensible personal attacks he makes on anyone who does not agree with his offtopic rants.

If the management of this site refuses to attempt to maintain a climate of civility on these threads, then I will stop posting here.  Of course folks like Inherit the Wind and other folks who come here to troll away their days will clap their hands.  Doesn’t matter to me.  I left the US twenty years ago precisely to avoid having to live cheek to jowl with racist bullies, and do not need to do so in virtual space.

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David J. Cyr's avatar

By David J. Cyr, December 9, 2010 at 3:23 pm Link to this comment

Corporations may have the stable corporate state they have because way too many sheeple are unstable.

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By Inherit The Wind, December 9, 2010 at 3:06 pm Link to this comment

moonraven, December 9 at 6:37 pm Link to this comment

With this post I am making a formal complaint about the abusive language on the part of the troll, Inherit the Wind.

Apart from his abusive language, his claim that he cannot be a racist because he adopted a Native American child shows that he is dedicated to actively committing cultural genocide—IF, in fact, he has adopted a Native American child—which of course is highly unlikely, to say the least.
******************

So the Moonraven shows that like every spoiled child she can dish out insults, abuse, call people racist names (“gringo” is one she uses constantly) but…

SHE CANNOT TAKE WHAT SHE DISHES OUT!

Plus she has called me a liar:  My younger child is Mayan, from Guatemala and we adopted him as an infant.  I won’t put his name or picture on TD because I’m afraid of the crazies out there, like the ones who may resent Caucasians adopting a Native American child.

A history of Moonraven is one of calling female posters things like “ugly old hag” and then defending her “right” to make such ad hominem slurs.

I WELCOME The Management’s review of the interchange between Moonraven and myself, and between Moonraven and Shenonymous, and between Moonraven and Patrick Henry, and between Moonraven and countless others she has called all sorts of names, but “gringo” is her favorite ethnic slur.

Her fundamental anti-semitism should also be held up to scrutiny.

Go ahead, please, managers: Review!

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By James Stuart Sinclair, December 9, 2010 at 1:49 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

There is no point in blaming people for crimes committed by other people (“governments”) far away.  Nor is there any reason to believe that “the system” is salvageable.  You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.  Bad people will stay bad.  The only strategy that can work now is for decent folk to withdraw, circle the wagons, and create our own healthy communities and nations, such as we in the Gaiene Communion (http://www.gaienecommunion.org) are now beginning to do.  The old games are over.

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moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 9, 2010 at 1:37 pm Link to this comment

With this post I am making a formal complaint about the abusive language on the part of the troll, Inherit the Wind.

Apart from his abusive language, his claim that he cannot be a racist because he adopted a Native American child shows that he is dedicated to actively committing cultural genocide—IF, in fact, he has adopted a Native American child—which of course is highly unlikely, to say the least.

Report this

By MrWebster, December 9, 2010 at 1:20 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Very painfully true article.  In the truthdig radio interview Hedges elaborated a bit and shed light on a question I had about behaviors of people serving the corporate state.  Who for example, in the insurance companies was denying claims?  Who for example, was signing fraudalent forms to steal homes from people through foreclosure?  Who started the process of having some people who were deliquent on payments arrested on bench warrants?

It is amazing how faceless the media has kept the corporate state.  We know of handful of people, but not the armies of people who implemented and supported the financial crimes.

It is “normal” middle class people most likely with families. 

Also, about this idea of innocence. There is an irony here.  When states move toward totalitarism, the entire population becomes supect and guilty of something with real implications.  The government threatened students with job refusal if they innocently went to Wikileaks.  Everybody is guilty in an airport security line and risks jail and fines for normal questions and behaviors.  Police have permission to torture people with tasers for innocent questions during traffic stops.  Nobody is innocent.

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By Bean, December 9, 2010 at 7:12 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I came back to apologize for my comment about nutballs, but after reading the more recent posts, I decided I didn’t really need to retract it.

Less blog, more action!

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By PatrickHenry, December 8, 2010 at 8:58 pm Link to this comment

I don’t know if Eisenhower met Aliens I wasn’t there.

Maybe a more credible source:

http://weeklyworldnews.com/politics/20297/winston-churchill-dwight-eisenhower-ufo-cover-up/

And then there is always:

http://ufocrashbook.com/eisenhower.html

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By elisalouisa, December 8, 2010 at 8:51 pm Link to this comment

Chris Hedges’ column Happy as a Hangman and protest on December
16 at the fence that encircles the White House speaks for itself. Will dissenters
also be at this demonstration? Perhaps even the Tea Party? Dissenters are
everywhere, finding what little pleasure they have in their games and
condescending manner.
I enjoy reading your posts TAO Walker, The value of such wisdom as to
life is not always understood.

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By Inherit The Wind, December 8, 2010 at 6:57 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie, December 8 at 10:51 pm Link to this comment

ITW—‘Don’t feed the trolls.’
***************

Words to live by.

DrQuacker: If you bothered to read you’d notice that my younger child is Native American, but neither my wife nor I am.  Does the word “adoption” mean anything to you?  Some doctor!

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By drbhelthi, December 8, 2010 at 6:07 pm Link to this comment

“anarcissie”, with trolls,

gets first dubs on the sweat-tent.

“Inheret the Wind” is second in line.

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By Anarcissie, December 8, 2010 at 5:51 pm Link to this comment

ITW—‘Don’t feed the trolls.’

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By TAO Walker, December 8, 2010 at 5:41 pm Link to this comment

Whatever “Inherit The Wind”‘s intent, he still insists, in his latest submission below, on substituting the dominance paradigm’s corrupting argot for the Natural Language (put as best as this Old Indian can into “modern” English) that he finds in this Person’s actual offerings here.  His resort to “tribe” and “Native American,” for example, instead of the ‘descriptives’ (as distinguished from mere “labels”) this Old Man actually uses, betrays (at-best) the kind of lazy arrogance (or is it arrogant laziness?) so unfortunately characteristic of domesticated peoples, especially in their CONdescending tendencies toward us surviving free wild Native Peoples and our Ancestors.  Let’s nevertheless accept, though, at face-value, his assurances that his motives are basically above-board….even if his customary methods might raise some honest doubts about that.   

So is it too much to ask that from now on “Inherit The Wind” be more conscientious about not putting his “words” into the virtual “mouths” of those of us participating in this sort-of Council Circle with him here?  Can he accept and allow that we, also, say simply what we mean, and mean simply what we say?

Can he just tell us how things look to him from where he is in The Circle, and trust that we’ll be respectfully attentive to it, without trying vainly to CONvince us….or taking us to-task when we treat his contribution as the singular viewpoint that it (by-definition) is, rather than the definitive “take” he may honestly feel it to be and want us to accept it as?  Will he give us some “credit” for being every-bit as dedicated as he is to efforts at coming to a mutually comprehensive grasp of the particulars of our common predicament….and to an effective mutually beneficial response to it?

“Wisdom,” of course, like virtually every other similarly abstract CONcept, exists pretty much only in the perceptions of the CONceited.  That’s how come this Old Savage has not even mentioned it, as such, let-alone made any claims to it….either Personally or on-behalf of the Ickche Wicapi as a People.

From our given place in the Hoop of Life, we see our tame Sisters and Brothers afflicted, physically and in all ways, with the “civilization” disease.  This is NOT a “judgement” on their “moral” condition….which ironically, however, is a CONstruct favored by certain religious (essentially make-believe) thought systems (a-k-a, philosophies) that’ve cropped-up among their own “selfs.”

Persons and Peoples who are unwell need specifically efficacious Medicine.  This Old Indian (as in: Indio, from Sp. “in God,” not “from India,” which at the time was called Hindustan) has recommended and described the particulars-of such a remedy. 

All-too-ubiquitous these days are counterfeits like “self”-righteous CONdemnation and “self”-serving false-CONfidence schemes, which are plainly not responsive to our need….in-fact can be seen to only worsen our plight.

HokaHey!

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By drbhelthi, December 8, 2010 at 5:13 pm Link to this comment

“Inherit the Wind.”
If your heritage is traceable to one of the indigenous
Nations, I would like to suggest that you are long
overdue for a visit to the sweat tent.

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By Inherit The Wind, December 8, 2010 at 3:29 pm Link to this comment

Moonraver:

I’m not “calling” you a racist shithead.

I am simply applying an appropriate label to your behavior.

You consistently call people “gringo”, a racist term that’s as pejorative as “redskin”, “wetback”, “canuck”, “wop”, “honky” or any of a thousand more.

Plus, you can’t make a rational argument, but hurl insults like suicide bomber hurls nails in all directions.  That’s classic shithead behavior.

Don’t worry, Moonraver: even people who violently disagree with on just about everything agree with me on this.

Calling me racist is merely stupid. My son is Native American.

I remember when a boss of mine had to sack a Black woman who went around ranting and raving that she was racist and she was gonna sue!  Then some of the other Black women in the office quietly pointed out that wasn’t going to go anywhere as the boss’s adored husband of over 20 years was, of course Black.  You are like that woman ranting and raving about “racists” when you can’t see them because your head is clearly so far up your butt.

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By moonraven, December 8, 2010 at 2:20 pm Link to this comment

Inherit the Windbag:

If your best shot is calling me a racist shithead, you ain’t got much firepower, buckaroo.

A whole lot of projection is shaking your pathetic keyboard.

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By Patrick Morrissey, December 8, 2010 at 12:53 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I remember what Bin Landen said when asked how he justified terror attack on innocent American civilians: he said they are not innocent because they pay taxes to support government and therefore they are complicint in crimes of government. So here you have case where your own government can put you in jail for not paying taxes and therefore loss your job and ability to support your family or to use Hedges logic you do pay taxes and then are morally complicit in crimes of governemnt. Not much of a choice.

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By jcs, December 8, 2010 at 11:34 am Link to this comment

Blake made many of the same points 200 years ago. He could have been writing about America today.

Song of Enion

I am made to sow the thistle for wheat; the nettle for a nourishing dainty
I have planted a false oath in the earth, it has brought forth a poison tree
I have chosen the serpent for a counselor & the dog
For a schoolmaster to my children
I have blotted out from light & living the dove & the nightingale
And I have caused the earthworm to beg from door to door
I have taught the thief a secret path into the house of the just
I have taught pale artifice to spread his nets upon the morning
My heavens are brass my earth is iron my moon a clod of clay
My sun a pestilence burning at noon & a vapour of death at night

What is the price of Experience do men buy it for a song
Or wisdom for a dance in the street? No it is bought with the price
Of all that a man hath his house his wife his children
Wisdom is sold in the desolate market where none come to buy
An in the withered field where the farmer plows for bread in vain

It is an easy thing to triumph in the summer’s sun
An in the vintage & to sing on the wagon loaded with corn
It is an easy thing to talk of patience to the afflicted
To speak the laws of prudence to the houseless wanderer

To listen to the hungry ravens cry in wintry season
When the red blood is filled with wine & with the marrow of lambs
It is an easy thing to laugh at wrathful elements
To hear the dog howl at the wintry door, the ox in the slaughter house moan
To see a god on every wind & a blessing on every blast
To hear the sounds of love in the thunderstorm that destroys our enemy’s house
To rejoice in the blight that covers his field, & the sickness that cuts off his children
While our olive & vine sing & laugh round our door & our children bring fruits & flowers
Then the groan & dolor are quite forgotten & the slave grinding at the mill
And the captive in chains & the poor in the prison, & the soldier in the field
When the shattered bone hath laid him groaning among the happier dead
It is an easy thing to rejoice in the tents of prosperity
Thus could I sing & thus rejoice, but it is not so with me!

To make it “not so with me” is the challenge.

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By Inherit The Wind, December 8, 2010 at 10:46 am Link to this comment

drbhelthi, December 8 at 12:58 pm Link to this comment

A bold statement is not an insinuation. President
Eisenhower was not “taken” aboard, he “climbed”
aboard unassisted and unaccompanied. As reported by
various personnel who witnessed the event. A few of
whom are still alive.

Nut jobs?  Each of us has ones own prejudices.
As demonstrated.  Repeatedly.

*****************

If you believe Ike climbed aboard a UFO, you are, by definition, a nut-job.

The fact that you are a doctor (or claim to be) is even scarier, a real indictment of our medical school education.  That’s OK:  A doctor I actually once knew, signed the petition as one of the 100 “scientists” who doubt global warming.  He’s a fuckin’ nephrologist! WTF does HE know about global warming? Too many doctors think their MDs make them the World’s Greatest Authority on every subject even when they don’t have a clue.

Ike in a UFO.  Give a fucking break.

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By David J. Cyr, December 8, 2010 at 10:06 am Link to this comment

QUOTE (of a non-person “patriot”):

“Governments have 1 purpose only: to do that which is for the best health and welfare and well being of the people of that nation… laws: are for one purpose only: the protection of the people from lawless people”
____________

Well, that would be true in a properly functioning democratically controlled Socialist society, but it’s not true in corporate [fascist] states.

In America, the purpose of government is to exploit human resources for the best benefit of the inhuman.

In America, the primary purpose of laws is to protect the most lawless from both the least lawless, and from all those who are law abiding.

Corporate states have gangster government.

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By elisalouisa, December 8, 2010 at 10:05 am Link to this comment

How does one know who are leading “very good happy lives” TD3? Things are not
always what they seem to be and you are old enough to know life is full of
surprises in every way. We do not see the whole picture. Generations are linked in more than one sense.
This Chris Hedges column calls for protests concerning government policy
because that is who he is. Mr. Hedges has not only talked the talk, he is walking
the walk, to the dismay of more than one of his detractors.
As to anyone leading “very good happy lives,” forget it. You could add the
adjective “empty” to that sentence.

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By David J. Cyr, December 8, 2010 at 10:05 am Link to this comment

QUOTE (of a “chip”):

“Anyone know wtf happened to move-on?”
____________

Recently, that manufacturer of corporate astroturf that provided the “historic” greater protection of corporate criminals has been relentlessly false advertising the corporate party’s Democrats as being the way to “clean up the corporate corruption in Washington.”

MoveOn continues to convince the truly uneducable that only the fox should be trusted to protect the chickens.

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By David J. Cyr, December 8, 2010 at 10:04 am Link to this comment

QUOTE (of an unperson avatar… albatross):

“Wars are against enemy states: there are no enemy states opposing us in Iraq and Afghanistan, those states are nominally our allies.  Wars end when victory conditions are met, but with no enemy state, victory conditions can never be met, thus the war can never end.”
____________

That’s not true of aggressor war states.

Fascist states require that war never end, because delivering death for theft is what gives them both life and wealth.

America has, from its beginning, continually waged war upon people, with its military might persuasively used to provide victories in its economic wars exploiting people. America’s wars waged against other nations have been disputes over which gangster government would be free to wage every manner of war against people, with full impunity… never any trials for its war crimes.

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By Anarcissie, December 8, 2010 at 9:44 am Link to this comment

Fat Freddy, December 8 at 1:56 am:

‘Anarcissie

I think you are restricting your definition of “property” to land. Is not something that I create, my property? If I “claim” a piece of land, and apply my labor, does that land not become my property?

Locke supported the Homesteading Principle. ‘

No, I was thinking of any kind of property, including property in other human beings.  It is what people say it is.  You can see the ideas of property shifting in our own era; consider the propertization of the electromagnetic spectrum as a means of communication, or the grotesque expansion of intellectual property laws, which make it technically illegal to sing ‘Happy Birthday’ or ‘Red River Valley’ without paying someone a royalty.

Locke’s justification of homesteading put him out on a considerable limb, and he went out on another limb to justify chattel slavery.

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By elisalouisa, December 8, 2010 at 8:23 am Link to this comment

Redhorse December 8 at 2:57 am
Your posts tell it well. Where is the light at the end of the tunnel? It would do well
to remember this comment by Chris Hedges:

“There will be sectors of the society that, as the situation worsens, attempt to rebel. But the state can rely on a huge number of peple who, for work and meager benefits, will transform themselves into willing executioners.”

One can see that now. More than a few people are convinced that Julian Assange is the enemy and would willingly do away with him. So it would be with neighbors and friends.

Such is the makeup of man.

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By drbhelthi, December 8, 2010 at 8:16 am Link to this comment

Criticism.
A fast, cheap mode of feeling strong(er).
Reminds me of our youthful neighbor a while back. She
tailgated me the last 1/4 mile to our parking lot. I
remarked, “oh, it was you tailgaiting me.” She
responded, “Doc, you drive too slow.”
Conclusion: Its not OK to drive within the speed limit,
but it is OK to drive wrecklessly, precipitating an
accident.

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By drbhelthi, December 8, 2010 at 7:58 am Link to this comment

A bold statement is not an insinuation. President
Eisenhower was not “taken” aboard, he “climbed”
aboard unassisted and unaccompanied. As reported by
various personnel who witnessed the event. A few of
whom are still alive.

Nut jobs?  Each of us has ones own prejudices.
As demonstrated.  Repeatedly.

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By Inherit The Wind, December 8, 2010 at 7:54 am Link to this comment

Bean, December 8 at 5:37 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Wow. You all are a bunch of nutballs. What are you doing to start the revolution?
Looks to me like you are whining and blogging just like the people you criticize.

****************************

Yer postin’ here, bub.  That makes you minimally as much of a nut job as anyone.  Of course the “Ike in a UFO” gang takes nuttiness to a new galaxy.

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By ardee, December 8, 2010 at 6:51 am Link to this comment

Bean, December 8 at 5:37 am

So, you whine about whiners…how helpful, how asinine. Why not set an example, if you can.

That the posts here run the gamut from insightful and intelligent to some nut jobs insinuation that Eisenhower was taken aboard an alien spacecraft is an ordinary reality of such political forums. That you post a stupidly empty criticism unhelpful and unnecessary speaks volumes about you and nothing more.

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By drbhelthi, December 8, 2010 at 5:17 am Link to this comment

Did the German folk sew what they reaped 1935-
through recovery,1955-1989?

Personally, I think the US is in step 3.7 of the
same five-step cycle.

Hitler and his “suck-uppers” were “prime movers” back then.
In the US, its GHWBSr and his imps.
The same, super-rich continue to hide behind their imps.

I doubt that extra-terrestrials will “swoop in” and
solve the human problem.
I still would like to know what happened during
President Eisenhower´s visit in their vehicle, Feb
1955 on Holloman Airbase.

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By truedigger3, December 8, 2010 at 4:10 am Link to this comment

Re: By keepyourheaddown, December 8 at 7:26 am

keepyourheaddown wrote:
“it’s all true but remember “you reap what you sow”
nothing more and nothing less…
and everyone knows the truth of their intentions…
NO ONE ESCAPES THEIR ACTIONS… IT DOESN"T MATTER WHAT EXCUSE YOU USE… THERE IS ONLY THE TRUTH!!!”
——————————————————————————
That is not true. Sometimes, many evil people live very good happy lives while, sometimes, many decent good people live a life marred by trajedies and hardship. And there is no “Hell” watiting for anyone either.
Cut out that religious nonsense, if you want different result, then you have to exert your own ACTION.

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By keepyourheaddown, December 8, 2010 at 2:26 am Link to this comment

it’s all true but remember “you reap what you sow”
nothing more and nothing less…
and everyone knows the truth of their intentions…
NO ONE ESCAPES THEIR ACTIONS… IT DOESN"T MATTER WHAT EXCUSE YOU USE…
THERE IS ONLY THE TRUTH!!!

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By Ralph Kramden, December 8, 2010 at 1:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

These are really desperate times. Moonraven’s story about Jews in a limousine is a perfect illustration of what is wrong, not in America, but in the USA. The rest of America? there is hope of rebellion and working-class resistance, but not in the USA. I’m working class and when I would try to dissuade my fellow workers from shopping at WalMart, drinking Coors, going to Pizza Hut, the Home Depot, you know, our enemies, they would all ignore me because they wanted to be the next Donald Trump. They were too busy buying real estate to give a damn about the wages of those below them. Only the French can help us.
Forget about 1984, that MI6-fink Orwell is a sophomore compared to Huxley’s Brave New World. We are in the final stages of the Corporate take-over. Witness the goose-stepping by Amazon, Visa, MasterCard. Congressmen with doubtful patriotic resumes such as Feinstein and Liberman are at the forefront screaming traitor and espionage. Have you ever heard any of these illustrious patriots screaming about the release by the USA of Israeli spies? And we ever wondered how the Nazis took over in Germany? Quietism my friend, fear and quietism. Marx was right, a bourgeois democracy leads to a race to the bottom for the working class, imperialism and fascism. Obama is either a sissy, a wanna-be rich or a scoundrel. A working-class person who votes for him is a moron or a suicidal maniac.

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By elisalouisa, December 8, 2010 at 1:44 am Link to this comment

By Bean, December 8 at 5:37 am

“Wow. You all are a bunch of nutballs.”

That thought has occurred to me more than once. grin

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By chip, December 8, 2010 at 1:31 am Link to this comment

When Bush was pres. I got E-mails from a lot of different groups including “move-on” (they quit when I asked why Obama sold out to wall street).

Now the only group that still writes is “Answer” and a lot of them have been arrested.

Anyone know wtf happened to move-on?

I went to a tea party hoping they weren’t just a bunch of anti-abortion,
apocalypse wishing, racist nuts.
Most were.
Looked for the independent candidates there.
None were.
All had a R somewhere around their name.

There is still a small anti-war group here in my town
but they seem to think I’m nuts. Maybe they are right.

Chris Hedges speaks the words I would if I was literate. Thanks Chris

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By Bean, December 8, 2010 at 12:37 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Wow. You all are a bunch of nutballs. What are you doing to start the revolution?
Looks to me like you are whining and blogging just like the people you criticize.

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By Inherit The Wind, December 7, 2010 at 11:35 pm Link to this comment

Tao Walker:

I suppose since I have dumped on you so many times you figured I was doing it again.  Must the “Boy Who Cried Wolf” syndrome.  I wasn’t.

But you have repeatedly spoken of the wisdom of (I presume) your tribe and its hate-avoiding and nature-loving faith.  Did I extrapolate too much when I inferred that your repeated self description as “This Old Indian” extended versions of your philosophy to all Indians (avoiding for the moment the mis-naming of Native Americans as Sub-Continentals)?

Yet the “Moonraver” touts HER N.A. heritage, too, using it to justify tossing out racist epithets left and right with insults and slurs.  Rage, and irrational fury make her, if anything, the “Anti-Tao Walker”. In view of the fact that my younger child is Native American as well, I consider her attacks to be attacks on both his heritages as well.

Plus, it just goes to show, as I said, that in reality, Native Americans have their share of shitheads as well, just like the rest of us.  The shithead I was referring to, Tao, was NOT you.  I’m sorry if that wasn’t clear.

The Mooncrow claims

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By Albatross, December 7, 2010 at 10:16 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Just a point: please stop referring to our military actions in Iraq and Afghanistan as “wars.”  Doing so lends them far too much credibility and moral authority, and contributes to their perpetuation—as well as simply being factually wrong.  Please refer to these military actions ONLY as ‘occupations.’

Wars are against enemy states: there are no enemy states opposing us in Iraq and Afghanistan, those states are nominally our allies.  Wars end when victory conditions are met, but with no enemy state, victory conditions can never be met, thus the war can never end.

Occupations, however, can only ever end.  That’s all they do - they continue, until one day they end.  And that day can be any day.  And usually, the sooner the better.

Thanks.

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By REDHORSE, December 7, 2010 at 9:57 pm Link to this comment

Washington D.C. is an open criminal conspiracy. This fact can no longer be hidden with red meat journalism or kneejerk obfuscation. That the lives and future of a People can be held hostage at the whim of looters is clear evidence that a Government has lost its viability. Do what you want with the reality but it is fact.

    Hedges piece is clear evidence of the immoral infectious disease that Washington represents and a call for personal action and responsibility. Get well, make a deal or perish. Whatever the personal choice the American psyche is so fractured the chances of sane unified action short of National calamity are nil. Those who still believe organized political action is possible should do so.

    A healthy view of Washington should include the reality that beyond looting it holds no consideration for the American People at all. Shadow forces of the MIC and revolving door financial politics serve as interface with international criminal black market finance. Drugs, human trafficking, money laundering, usery, illegal arms, for profit torture, kidnap and murder are its Hallmarks. You are no longer protected or safe.

    The reality of Environmental catastrophe and GCC,the exponential explosion of population, failure of natural resources and collapse of the American economy is already breaking America into defacto second Nations. Systems of American social support and infrastructure will continue to disintegrate. Machinations by Washington to exploit these situations for profit will further endanger American citizens.  Absolute oligarchic rule is being installed and total police state surveillance will be in place before mid-century.

    Those near the end of their lives with financial resource may be able to ride the next two decades out. Beyond that cities will be free fire zones with enclaves protected by either organized gang affilitaion or armed “green zone” style paramilitary force to protect the rich.

    As I write this I’m listening to an NPR report on the new International/American billion dollar child prostitution industry. Our High Schools are flooded with Heroin and the Karzais are trying to smuggle another 52 million into Saudi Banks. The young know they have no future. We’re at 10% unemployment and rising. The jobs aren’t coming back. Our President is bent over his desk panting to sign a Bill letting the rich walk on taxes.

    Read’em and weep boys. And have a nice day.

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By Fat Freddy, December 7, 2010 at 9:15 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie

If you want to get technical, in modern society, there is no real ownership. Most businesses are financed either with interest only, or Ponzi (speculative) debt, leaving the financiers (banks) as the “true” owners. The “best” thing you, or anybody else can do, is start your own business without any long term debt. Short term debt, to, say, bring a crop to market, is “good” debt.

The biggest problem with corporations, is the separation of ownership and management. If you look at the major shareholders of the top corporations, you will find that the vast majority are asset management companies, that are usually wholly owned subsidiaries of the big banks.

In effect, we are all slaves to debt. There are different types of debt, but most of it is long term, interest only and speculative. Our current economic system collectivizes debt of both the government, and the private sector. The dollar in your pocket is nothing more than a claim on somebody’s debt. You are a slave to it. You need it to pay taxes. By owning a dollar, you are forced to participate in the collectivization of communal debt. Everybody is forced to pay taxes, thus, everybody participates in the giant Ponzi scheme of collectivized debt.

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By Fat Freddy, December 7, 2010 at 8:56 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie

I think you are restricting your definition of “property” to land. Is not something that I create, my property? If I “claim” a piece of land, and apply my labor, does that land not become my property?

Locke supported the Homesteading Principle.

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By RayLan, December 7, 2010 at 8:32 pm Link to this comment

@Denys"Ray, you demonstrate again that criticizing gays and lesbians is impossible. My comment is not hateful. And I will specifically address one of your comments, although you general statements about permanent status of victims for women, jews and homosexuals is erronous”
“Permanent victim” is your phrase - the correct one is ‘legitimate victim’ in a historical context which you refuse to acknowledge because it violates your freedom to criticize.  Gay rights have improved, and so have blacks’ and women’s rights but there is still some distance to go for proper equality to white heterosexual males is gained by these groups. Jews have secured their rights to a greater extent at this point. You are quite free to make criticisms about individual Jews, gays, women, Blacks but to criticize the entire group is prejudicial by definition an yes it should be impossible to make such grand condemnations. The only person who would be frustrated by that would be a bigot.

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By Anarcissie, December 7, 2010 at 7:59 pm Link to this comment

Fat Freddy—in the case of both private property and the market (which requires participants to know who owns what, and what they are allowed to do with it) we come up against the fact that property is a social, that is, collective relationship.  According to Locke, the Earth was given to mankind in common; how it is divided up must be decided either by collective agreement, or by force.

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By TAO Walker, December 7, 2010 at 7:32 pm Link to this comment

“Anarcissie” joins occasional tag-team partner “Inherit The Wind,” again, repeating part of the latter’s earlier misrepresentation of this Old Savage’s observations.  He also tries to create out of virtual hot-air the false impression of an association among Persons (some of whom he holds up to typically gratuitous ridicule) who’ve never in real Life claimed or even hinted-at at such things.  So “Anarcissie” must manufacture a gaggle of essentially straw-man “personalities” in order to disparage that which he intends will become linked in the minds of others here to his cartoon figures.

This behavior on their part has all the ear-marks of professional propaganda purveyors and psychological warfare operatives plying their disruptive trade.  Unable to engage on substance, they growl and bark at phantoms cobbled-together from trivia, make-believe, out-of-context snippets….ephemera existing nowhere but in their own (and their sponsors’) fevered captive imaginations and sickeningly disintegrating “dreams.”

The tag-team might, of course, be only rank amateurs just playing-at the sophomoronic game of farting-out-loud, wanting to provoke similarly immature reactions from those they can’t otherwise affect.  Sometimes it seems to work, too, and the desired CONtentiousness ensues.  It’s not unlikely “Anarcissie” and “Inherit The Wind” also ARE what they DO.

In Indian Country, though, we say (as simply and clearly as we can) what we see.  This Old Indian has no expectations at all about what people will make of observations and descriptions offered here.  Take ‘em or leave ‘em.

Meantime, the “civilization” disease runs its deadly course, aided and abetted by just the kind of feckless carryings-on exemplified by these two unfortunate domesticated “individuals.”

HokaHey!

 

 

 

 


%

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By Fat Freddy, December 7, 2010 at 7:20 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie

The people I referred to are not minarchists. Konkin used it as a derogatory term, like Kochtopus, or the “vulgar libertarians”, and “corporate apologists”.

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By Fat Freddy, December 7, 2010 at 7:00 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie

I have no problem with people forming voluntary groups to pursue common interests. My problem is the denial of private ownership. Collectivism occurs when certain individuals are forced to sacrifice for the good of the group. Direct, liberal democracies, are just as coercive as totalitarian dictatorships. The will of the majority is forced on the minority. The ultimate minority is the individual.

But let’s say a group of people wish to form a group, whether collectivist or not, the goods and services they produce must still be traded on a free, open market; a market free from external manipulations. For manipulations of a free market, are coercive to a free people.

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By Michael Cavlan RN, December 7, 2010 at 4:06 pm Link to this comment

Moon Raven

I am with you Sister/Brother. I knew that you would get it.

I was just making the point so that we could start advancing together.

With out any alphabet soup government agency distractions.

In the words of MY people, the Irish who have been fighting these folks for 800
years now.

Go Raibh Maith Agat, Mo Chara
Tiochfaidh Ar La

My Thanks Goes With You, My Friend (ally)
Our Day Will Come

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By moonraven, December 7, 2010 at 3:28 pm Link to this comment

Michael,

Yes, I get your drift regarding Cointel-Pro—I was living in the Chicago area when they took out Hampton and Clark.  That was a little before Pine Ridge and the murders of AIM folks and the incarceration of Peltier—but it was all an FBI-led campaign to eliminate non-whites who demanded equal rights with their oppressors.

There are funnies and phoneys posting here—and on many other sites—but I am in favor of letting them continue with the bullshit shoveling.  They are the ones working and we are the ones watching what the enemy is up to.

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By sallysense, December 7, 2010 at 3:11 pm Link to this comment

thanks for the well-wishes’n'all elisalouisa!...

and on a further note concerning wikileaks support and regarding certain credit card shutdown announcements…

a shutdown is in the works… but it hasn’t actually closed the process yet… (although the media may want it to appear otherwise… who knows ?)... anyway… there’s a time frame of opportunity between the two… so get your donations in while ya can!... (mine did indeed go through!)... the best of wishes’n'ways’n'todays to ya’n'all!... smile

http://wikileaks.ch

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By Winston Gold, December 7, 2010 at 2:51 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

In a larger context, some might say, morality is the topic of Hedges’ fine article. Now, the root meaning of moral is, more or less, custom. This is generally codified as “law”, at least historically. But in a political economy that depends on rapid change and exploitation neither law nor custom - “morality” - can have any meaning or usefulness. Thus what is called law is mere ukase, decrees by the criminal class enforced by their clients. Classically morality existed as the context for ethics, which has the root meaning of character. Now, in this chaotic revolutionary time, character itself has become, well, “criminal”. The old UMW song “Which Side Are You On?” exhorts people to decide to show their character - and so does Hedges. Risky, but, well, who are you?

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By Michael Cavlan RN, December 7, 2010 at 2:35 pm Link to this comment

MoonRaven, Fat Freddy, David Cyr, Mdgr, Curmudgeon

Just an observation. When a serious discussion develops with an obvious idea of
“what do we do next” is the logical conclusion, I have noticed a trend here.

Suddenly lots of avatars (anonymous) posters show up, sowing seeds of discord
and distraction. Almost like they are tied to a, some right wing fruitloop group
or b. some corporate group or c. most likely some governmental agency with
badges and an alphabet title like FBI, NDMS, FEMA, BIA, CIA etc etc.

Almost like the function is to stop us from developing ideas and actions. Just
like the ideas of Cointel-Pro if you all catch my drift.

My suggestion. Ignore these fruitloops or agents or what ever they are. They
scream and holler and make a bunch of provocative statements trying to get a
rise.

Ignore them. We need to start working together and organizing.

Just a thought.

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By foxyjohn, December 7, 2010 at 2:10 pm Link to this comment

Horray for Chris HEDGES and his commentaries!!!  HOW can I NOW CONTRIBUTE
TO WIKILEAKS????? ARE THERE ANY SECURE SITES???? OR EVEN SITES WHERE
PEOPLE COULD COLLECT MONEY AND GIVE IT TO HIM—-PLEASE RESPOND
SALLYSENSE,ELISALOUISA, OR SOMEONE ELSE???? IF YOU CAN HELP ME. I ALWAYS
WANT TO DO SOMETHING HERE AND NOW!  THANKS FOXYJOHN

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By elisalouisa, December 7, 2010 at 2:10 pm Link to this comment

True sallysense. You do brighten up this thread. Best wishes to you also
in your endeavor to better human lives and resources and more! . . .

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By moonraven, December 7, 2010 at 1:29 pm Link to this comment

I see that since I last posted, a number of rabid racist comments have been posted—especially against native peoples—the only peoples who have lived lightly and harmoniously with nature.  Whites have brought the species to the point of extinction, the planet to a bald, toxic waste dump.  Your technology ain’t superior to that of the Stone Age—just destructive.

Maybe you can find another planet to trash—as in your film fantasies—when you find that there’s no room in that one limousine.

To the peanut-gallery windbag who indicated that Carlos Castaneda transmitted native american wisdom:  You are an even bigger sucker than I thought.  Castaneda was a fraud.  Don Juan spoke Chicano.  And the “dog” ate Castaneda’s “field notes” (while he was wading in blood, no doubt, in that flooded basement). 

Calling what he wrote fiction, when he passed it off to get a PhD from some white Indians-R-Us boobs, is far too kind.

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By sallysense, December 7, 2010 at 1:25 pm Link to this comment

hiya elisalouisa’n'all!... it’s not about sitting back and speculating where things may or may not end… it’s about doing something in the here and now!...

the best of wishes’n'ways’n'todays for doing things towards helping human lives and resources and more!... smile

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By Anarcissie, December 7, 2010 at 1:21 pm Link to this comment

Fat Freddy—I’ve read a number of minarchist writings.  You have omitted two of my favorites, Albert Jay Nock and Robert Nozick.  (I don’t know if they themselves would have called themselves minarchists, but I put them in that bag.)  I suppose I admire their clarity of language more than anything.  In terms of political philosophy, I start from different axioms and come up, naturally, with different results.

I’m afraid my citation of Rand was a bit ambiguous in this case.  I found the echoes of Hedges’s ‘the innocent are guilty’ to be rather eerie.  Sure, it’s a staple of Christianity, which may explain Stalin’s remark—you will recall he started out as a seminarian—but Rand, as far as I know, grew up in a secular liberal-bourgeois Jewish family, with an outlook unlikely to quarrel with the innocence of the innocent.  But 1941 was a dark time, I suppose, leading to extreme and desperate views.

Collectivism does not preclude anarchism, as long as it is non-violent and voluntary.  Human beings are highly social, collectivizing animals who nevertheless experience life as individuals.  No viable political arrangement of any sort can occlude one or the other of these necessary aspects.  If reasonable people are left alone they can usually come to some tolerable configuration of their social order which recognizes both; it may be a big spiritual problem (the great gulf between soul and soul) but practical matters could be arranged.  The excitement of a distorted interest in fragments of the human personality, such as official patriotism, must cause us to suspect the presence of fraud, propaganda, and violence.

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By elisalouisa, December 7, 2010 at 12:59 pm Link to this comment

@FatFreddy
A good many people have the slave mentality, gladly letting others do the
thinking for them, thus being controlled.  Politicians, bankers and religious
leaders gladly comply, not necessarily for the good of the people.

Who knows where this all will end sallysense. I doubt that Assange could obtain any life insurance right now.

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By Lance, December 7, 2010 at 12:55 pm Link to this comment

Mankind has submited itself to one corrupt and wicked system after another. Do you see the pattern? Government by men is doomed to failure. Anyone with the slighest level of awareness can see that the system is floundering and due for a collapse of its own making.
But this time it will not be replaced again by a government of human origin. It will be replaced by the fast approaching righteous Kingdom of Jehovah God. Please read your Bible and pray for guidance, guard your heart and search for Jehovah while He may still yet be found. This current system with all its evil and injustice will soon be done away with.

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By sallysense, December 7, 2010 at 12:47 pm Link to this comment

just made another donation to wikileaks a few minutes ago… (a $10.00 euro donation cost $13.32 us)...

http://wikileaks.ch

wikileaks deserves our support!... (they have my support!)...

the truth needs to be exposed!... the documents and cables reiterate what goes on behind the scenes in losses of human lives and resources due to power plays based mainly on illusion and carried out with deceptive practices!... and these things need to be made known!... especially for the sake of human lives and resources and the future!...

it saddens me to see the mentalities that don’t know any better call for harm to be done to julian assange… clearly he’s a factor for change towards an age of more awareness in what’s going on!... and our world needs this now more than ever!...

(when representatives of a government rely on a system of deception to get things done… it’s that deceptive system itself which should be its citizens’ biggest fear!)...

“let facts be submitted to a candid world”... (from the united states “declaration of independence”)...

the best of wishes’n'ways’n'todays for the sake of saving human lives and resources and more!... smile

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By Anarcissie, December 7, 2010 at 12:39 pm Link to this comment

TAO Walker, December 7 at 6:05 am:

‘Hard to say whether “Inherit The Wind” is being deliberately or just carelessly disingenuous below, when he claims this Old Indian touts “the wisdom of Native Americans.” ...’

Well, you do tout wisdom, and you go around saying things like ‘Hokakey!’ which is a Sioux slogan, although I would associate the wisdom more with the Tao Te Ching than The Book Of The Hopi or Black Elk Speaks or one of Castaneda’s delightful fictions.  You can hardly be surprised if your audience confuses ethnicity and philosophy when they’re displayed together, even if one is clearly decor.

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By Fat Freddy, December 7, 2010 at 12:33 pm Link to this comment

The government is the problem. The government has only one tool - coercion. Over the centuries, Man has seen several types of government, but corruption of power and authority always ends up in Totalitarianism. The US and EU are Totalitarian Democracies. Every system of controlled governance in the history of Man, has failed. The one we currently live under, is doomed for failure, as well. The desire to control the actions of others with the threat of, or the initiation of, force, is immoral. You can justify however you like, but until you begin to see things for what they really are, you are just as guilty. We all wish to impose our beliefs on others. We all wish to control the actions of others. Whether it is a Preacher in a pulpit, or a central banker with a printing press, or a president at a podium, all wish to control the actions of others, even when they have not initiated the use of force. Politics, economics, and religion are all forms of controlling the masses.

Statism is slavery:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOGq_1710U4


Anarcissie

It’s nice to see you post an Ayn Rand article. She was a “minarchist”. Do you know what a minarchist is? Perhaps you should read the person who coined the term, along with the term “Kochtopus”. Rand believed in the “non-aggression axion”, which is a start. However, she falls short when dealing with true anarchism, and the freedom associated with it. She eventually became nothing more than a cult leader. Perhaps you should try Lysander Spooner (pictured), Sam Konkin III, Murray Rothbard, and Robert LeFevre.

Piotr Kropotkin, Mikhail Bakunin and Noam Chomsky are not anarchists. They are collectivists.

http://mises.org/daily/2197

Corporations, and big banks only exist through the coercive forces of government. Governments extort money from individuals for destructive purposes.

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By Anarcissie, December 7, 2010 at 11:43 am Link to this comment

ITW—‘moonraven’ also claims to be a Latin American revolutionary and to have a PhD in English.  Perhaps we can get him, her or it to make even more entertaining claims if we try.  Or would that be naughty?

Denys—it is indeed logically impossible to make particular criticisms of homosexuals in general because there is almost nothing to be said about them which does not apply to non-homosexuals.  A great many of them are depressingly average except for the orientation of their sexuality.  They even want to join the army, and get married!  Of course particular homosexuals can be and are criticized, sometimes very severely as well as logically, not least by other homosexuals.  I don’t know how you manage to be persecuted by either homosexuals or Jews, however.  I would have said you needed to get out more, but perhaps your mere appearance provokes the Jewish and homosexual peasants and they come after you with torches and pitchforks?  Better stay in the castle then.

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By David J. Cyr, December 7, 2010 at 11:36 am Link to this comment

Chris Hedges described America’s working class people as having been “transformed… into terrified people in fragmented pools preoccupied with the struggle of private existence.”

There’s been another transformation of people that’s even worse.

The fundamental reason natural persons cannot prevail in America is that unnatural things have replaced natural persons.

Corporations are not natural persons.

Piles of money are not natural persons.

The solutions for the problems natural persons have must come from people working with other people, together with Nature. Good solutions for natural person problems won’t ever come from non-person unnatural things.

The corporate state (with Ralph Nader unwittingly aiding it) purposefully transformed near all the people of America into consumers — into something less than whole persons — created for the sole purpose of purchasing too many things not needed… until the things own the owners.

Now consumers are self-mutilatingly mutating themselves into things. The internet is populated by more avatars than people. An avatar is a consumer who has consumed s/himself — transformed themself into a thing that is no longer a person… into the product of a person who has murdered their own personhood.

We don’t have democracy in America because there are too many Democrats.

We may not have the People’s Party politically needed for natural persons because there are too few people surviving, with so many people having become avatars —  having chosen to become inanimate things — things that are no more natural, nor persons, than “corporate persons” are.

An avatar is a not real world existing thing pretending to be a person.

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