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Ground Zero for Tolerance

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Posted on Aug 17, 2010
ground zero
AP / Mark Lennihan

Construction cranes tower above One World Trade Center on Aug. 13 in New York.


Q & A - Live Chat with Robert Scheer


A live Q & A session related to this column took place on August 19, 2010 at 11:00 am PT.

Click here to view the transcript.


By Robert Scheer

Are the Republicans terminally stupid or are they just playing the dangerous fool? In either case, the irrational attack on Muslims everywhere by the GOP’s leadership is not only deeply subversive with regard to the American ideal of religious tolerance but also poses a profound threat to our national security. Nor does it help that some top Democrats like Harry Reid are willing to demean Muslims even as we fight two wars in which victory depends on our ability to convey a respect for their religion.

Just ask Gen. David Petraeus, who is leading the war without end to win the hearts and minds of Muslims in Afghanistan, how helpful it is to the Taliban for American politicians to identify all Muslims with terrorism. Or to the theocratic leaders of Iran who justify their hard line with the insistence that the U.S. is obsessively anti-Muslim.

Demonization of the Muslim religion is what this brouhaha is all about. Talk of the sensitivity of the victims of 9/11, ignoring those who were Muslim, is just camouflage. It is as absurd as it would be to blame all religious Jews for the assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, killed by one gunman from a fanatical Jewish fringe group, or to ban the erection of an Orthodox synagogue anywhere near Rabin’s grave. As irrational an act of scapegoating as blaming all ethnic Germans for the acts of Nazis, many of whom claimed to be God-fearing Christians.

Yet that is the logical implication of the comparison that Newt Gingrich made when he likened the proposed erection of a Muslim community center two blocks from the World Trade Center site to putting a Nazi sign next to the Holocaust Museum. On his website, Newt goes further in identifying all Muslims with terrorism: “There should be no mosque near Ground Zero in New York so long as there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia. The time for double standards that allow Islamists to behave aggressively towards us while they demand our weakness and submission is over.”

Consider the full implication of that call for an international cold war against Islam by the former GOP House speaker. Someone should remind Newt that both Republican and Democratic presidents have regarded Saudi Arabia as an ally in the war against terrorism and toward that end sanctioned the sale of very sophisticated weaponry to the kingdom and the sharing of intelligence with its military. So too with the Muslim-dominated government of Pakistan with which we have been allied for a half-century, not to mention our current Muslim allies in power in Iraq and Afghanistan. As a leader in Congress, Gingrich supported those policies, but now in his zeal to misrepresent President Barack Obama’s perfectly sensible stand that we are not at war with the Muslim world, he abandons not only his record but also any pretense of logic.

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But even if one accepts that the Wahhabi version of Islam dominant in Saudi Arabia helps fuel violent spinoffs of the Osama bin Laden variety (although bin Laden would be summarily executed in his native land), what does this have to do with a Sufi Muslim community center proposed for lower Manhattan? As the highly regarded religion writer William Dalrymple pointed out in a New York Times Op-Ed piece, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the leader of the group hoping to build the New York center, is a moderate Sufi, and he and his movement’s espousal of universal brotherhood have been a target of violence. The Taliban was so threatened by the Sufi message of universal love that it attacked a Pakistani shrine to the great 17th century Sufi poet-saint Rahman Baba. “I am a lover, and I deal in love,” Dalrymple writes in citing Baba’s revered Sufi verse, which continues, “Sow flowers,/ so your surroundings become a garden./ Don’t sow thorns; for they will prick your feet./ We are all one body./ Whoever tortures another, wounds himself.”

Just the message most relevant to adorn a building near the site of the World Trade Center, leveled by those who sow thorns. But sadly the thorns of religious bigotry are not a monopoly of any one religion or easily resisted by the demagogic politicians who exploit our ignorance of the other. The premise of our constitutional protection of religious diversity is that ignorance is the enemy of freedom. 

Our founders were keenly aware, from the lessons of Europe and the early American colonies, of the dangers posed by false prophets from within their own churches. They knew well from deep personal experience, as is revealed clearly in the writings of Washington and Jefferson, that religious and political liberty was most effectively threatened by the zealotry of one’s own kin. 

Click here to check out Robert Scheer’s new book, “The Great American Stickup: How Reagan Republicans and Clinton Democrats Enriched Wall Street While Mugging Main Street.”

Click here to check out Robert Scheer’s book,
“The Great American Stickup: How Reagan Republicans and Clinton Democrats Enriched Wall Street While Mugging Main Street.”


Keep up with Robert Scheer’s latest columns, interviews, tour dates and more at www.truthdig.com/robert_scheer.



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By richard east, August 19, 2010 at 11:18 am Link to this comment

I think this picture just about sums it up…

http://www.balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/TacgJ.jpg

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By Anarcissie, August 19, 2010 at 11:18 am Link to this comment

ITW—‘Sinbad’ may well be a troll or a pseudo, doing his best to make Arabs or Muslims look bad.

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By Inherit The Wind, August 19, 2010 at 11:08 am Link to this comment

Arabian Sinbad, August 19 at 11:33 am Link to this comment


Inherit The Wind, August 19 at 8:18 am

I am sick and tired of your irrational rants and your crocked Zionist mentality. If I had the chance to meet you face-to-face I will punch your ugly evil face till you ask for mercy, even if that means going to jail!

*************************

And this is what you really think despite all your assertions of devotion to God. At heart, you seek to enforce your will by violence.  You are just a thug, by your own words.

What is it with Arabs posting here that when they get mad they always call someone “ugly”?  We’ve seen that before.

As for punching my face, well, good luck with that!  I’ve been hit by better men than you, and better trained men than you and stood my ground—I have a positively vicious left hook, and my front thrust kick put my Sensei into the spectators…so allow for a nice hospital stay on your way to jail.  I’ll send you flowers—just tell me what you’re allergic to…

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By fearnotruth, August 19, 2010 at 10:48 am Link to this comment

RE: ...9/11 conspiratism is used to deflect an important discussion, the open
adoption of bigotry…

next to the global havoc wreaked in the wake of the 9/11 coup d’etat, a little
good-‘ol-boy bigotry is pretty much a non-event; if we didn’t get it, we’d think
something’s wrong

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By Anarcissie, August 19, 2010 at 10:48 am Link to this comment

The possibility of a 9/11 conspiracy of some sort may be a still-open issue, although it accords badly with Occam’s venerable razor.  However, it is not the issue at hand in the ‘Ground Zero Mosque’ circus.  Most Americans believe that the World Trade Center was attacked by a small group of Muslims who had hijacked airplanes.  Regardless of whether this is true, it does not say anything about the other 1.4 billion Muslims or however many of them there are, nor does it call for the abolition of the First Amendment in order to keep them from building a mosque or any other legal building in downtown Manhattan, as Giuliani, Gingrich, Lazio, Paladino, and so on advocate.  That’s the issue of the moment.  I think it is really pretty urgent to resist fascistic attacks on the Constitution by thugs trying to exploit racism and religious intolerance in order to gain political power.

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By Arraya, August 19, 2010 at 10:18 am Link to this comment

9/11 was the psychological pretext for a lot of things.  It’s the reason for the
political islam-hysteria, foreign policy and the “war on terror”.

Actually, if you take the emotion out of it, complicity is a very probable and
logic explanation.

We did have a group of folks who were openly pining for a “new pearl harbor”
to garner public support for advancement of a predetermined foreign policy
since 99’ - that also have a well documented reputation for manipulating public
emotion via staged events for political gain on smaller issues.  And it’s a
foreign policy that was understood as absolutely necessary to maintain US
global preeminence.

Also, Cheney’s secretive Energy Task Force examined maps of Middle East oil
fields in the months before 9/11 and the start of the alleged “War on Terror” -
so it seems reasonable to conclude that 9/11 was desired, in part, in order to
allow the seizure of Iraqi oil fields, the second largest and most unexplored on
the planet.

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By walterbard, August 19, 2010 at 8:57 am Link to this comment

to sinkwhole2

Yup you almost got all dem members of the international Amway conspiracy. But you missed a few.
They are: The trilateral commission, Queen Elizabeth
(bet you didn’t know she’s Jewish) the Pope, (yep,
notice the yarmulka on his head), the masons of course, scientologists, Nathan’s famous hot dogs,
the Mafia, the illumati, and last but not least
Roy Rogers (the protocols of Zion zre hidden in his stuffed horse trigger)

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By drbhelthi, August 19, 2010 at 8:56 am Link to this comment

According to available information, a few million of us
consider 9/11 to be a still-open issue, worthy of
continuous investigation and discussion. In no way a
diversion from any other Truthdig issue.

We think the conspirators deserve to be fingered and
severely punished, particularly all U.S., Zionist and
Saudi national leaders who were involved.

Reading the chronicles of Ted Gunderson and Chip Tatum
provides a bit of insight.

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By Anarcissie, August 19, 2010 at 7:53 am Link to this comment

This thread is a good example of how 9/11 conspiratism is used to deflect an important discussion, the open adoption of bigotry by Republican leaders and cowardly Democrats, into banality and irrelevance.

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By Arabian Sinbad, August 19, 2010 at 7:33 am Link to this comment

By whole2th, August 19 at 9:02
===============================
Great post whole2th! Now that you listed the criminals responsible for 9/11 and the ruin of this sad country we call home, all we need is an upright and swift justice system to bring those criminals to justice.
==============
Inherit The Wind, August 19 at 8:18 am

I am sick and tired of your irrational rants and your crocked Zionist mentality. If I had the chance to meet you face-to-face I will punch your ugly evil face till you ask for mercy, even if that means going to jail!

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By drbhelthi, August 19, 2010 at 7:15 am Link to this comment

ATTABOY, whole2th.

Who arranged for the MOSSAD operatives to enter and
inhabit the Twin Towers, with free movement during
the three months they used to plant the explosives?

And, who OKayed the transport into the buildings of
the tons of explosives?

And, were the explosives provided by elements of the
U.S. Army in the geographical area, who were not
informed of what was going on? 
Were some threatened with death if they told anyone
what they were doing? Similar to the crew
of the USS Liberty - - .

And, what is the name of the NAZI/Zionist who
received the incredible insurance payment for the
buildings he assisted to destroy?

And, did his associates deduct the payment from the
U.S.Treasury via another falsified bill that the
u.s. congress passed in “their” colossal stupidity?

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By George, August 19, 2010 at 7:12 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“The irrational attack on Muslims everywhere by the GOP’s leadership…”

Uhh, Mr. Scheer, the Democratic leadership including Harry Reid and Howard Dean have also joined the GOP’s leadership in this irrational attack. As have many of their rank and file joined the Republican rank and file.

The process has been as usual: the Republicans lead. the Democrats follow.

As much as I loathe the Republicans, I can no longer support the Democrats. They are contemptible cowards.

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By tommydokc, August 19, 2010 at 5:50 am Link to this comment

it wasn’t american muslims that attacked on 9/11. it was however american christians that attacked on april 19th in OKC. one of our countries foundations is religious freedoms. and this mosque is two blocks away from the hole left. the term ground zero has a finite meaning. it’s over used. so american muslims cannot be allowed to have freedoms to build on land they own? if this is your logic, then in all the churches and businesses that surround the bombing site in OKC should be leveled or vacated also

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By whole2th, August 19, 2010 at 5:02 am Link to this comment

@walterbard As the Truthdig spokesperson for justifying ruthless Israeli
behavior, what excuse do you have about criminal elements of Zionism
orchestrating and covering up 9-11?

These people and companies (a Jewish crime network?) had motive, means,
opportunity and the conspiratorial help of mainstream media to commit and
cover-up the crimes of 9-11:

Larry Silverstein, Judge Hellerstein, ODIGO, COMVERSE, AMDOCS, Philip Zelikow,
Paul Wolfowitz, Jerome Hauer, ICTS, Mossad, dancing Israelis, Urban Moving
Systems, Frank Lowy, Netanyahu, Ali Al Jarrah, Adam Yahiye, Gadahn, Jack
Abramoff, David Frum, Daniel Lewin, Marc Grossman, Eliot Abrams, Douglas
Feith, Richard Perle, Michael Chertoff, Michael Mukasey, Rabbi Dov Zakheim,
Stephen Cauffman, Benjamin Chertoff, Sheila Birnbaum, Kenneth Feinberg,
James Schlesinger, Michael Goff, PTECH, Sivan Kurzberg, Paul Kurzberg, Yaron
Schmuel, Oded Elner, Omer Marmari, ZIM Integrated Shipping Services, Ezra
Harel, Menachem Atzmon, Jules & Jeremy Kroll, Ronald Lauder, Lewis Eisenberg,
Dick Cheney, George Tenet, Robert Mueller, Dale Watson, Dave Frasca, Marion
“Spike” Bowman, John Ashcroft, Ted Olson, Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Tommy
Thompson, Porter Goss, Bob Graham, Richard Armitage, Ari Fleischer, Andrew
Card, Kark Rove, Richard Meyers, Ralph Eberhardt, Larry Arnold, Eric Findley,
Montague Winfield, Richard Mies, Harry Shelton, Peter Shoomaker, Geoffrey
Lambert, John Brinkerhoff, Tony Gentry, John Lehman, Philip Odeen, Louis
“Scooter” Libby, Jeb Bush, Rudolph Giuliani, Bernard Kerik, Eliot Spitzer, Richard
Holbrooke, John Deutch, Ashton Carter, Michael Ledeen, Abdussattar Shaikh,
Abdullah Noman, Dominic Suter, Sivan Kurzberg, Theresa McAllister, Ronald
Hamburger, William Baker, Harold Nelson, Ramon Gilsanz, Shankar Nair, Gene
Corley, Paul Miakar, Mete Sozen, Charles Thornton, Richard Tomasetti, Victor
Ganzi, Benjamin Chertoff, Kevin Delaney, Marvin Bush, Wirt Walker, David
Rockefeller, Nicholas Rockefeller, Warren Buffett, Rupert Murdoch, Maurice
Greenberg, Paul Bremer, Wallace Hilliard, Peter Peterson, A.B. “Buzzy” Krongard,
Mark Loizeaux, Loring Knoblauch, Michael Cherkasky, Frank Carlucci, William
Perry, William Kristol, James Woolsey, Newt Gingrich, Henry Kissinger, George
H. W. Bush, George W. Bush, Tony Blair, Joe Biden, Barak Obama, Pauline
Neville-Jones, Mahmoud Ahmad, Benjamin Netanyahu, Ariel Sharon and likely
many other members of the tribe were involved in 9/11.

Are the many Zionist-Jewish connections coincidence?

No, I’m not talking about all Jews any more than talking about the Mafia would
indict all Italians.

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By archivesDave, August 19, 2010 at 4:52 am Link to this comment

drbhelthi:
Amen…and AMEN to your comments.
And let us all be reminded how colluding Big Pharma, food and oil corporations were married way back when thanks to Banksters like J P Morgan and Rockefeller. (Covertly, Rothschild financed both of them to get started and MANY more!)
Junk food makes us sick enough to take the drugs that treat the symptoms and not the cause.

Many drugs are oil based as well.
The etiology of all this begins back in the late 1800s and early 1900s when (originally) holistic institutes such as Post and Kellogg were either shut down or taken over by the alopathic oriented food and drug companies.
Some other pioneers who have blazed the holistic
health trail for us are Drs Linus Pauling, Abram Hoffer, Carl Pfeiffer, Jonathan Wright (Tahoma Clinic), Mercola, Weil, Chopra, Dean Ornish, Whitaker Bros, and DOZENS more I can’t recall right now. 
The last six are still very much alive and active: I heartily recommend subscribing to their newsletters.

‘Food Is Your Best Medicine’ by Henry Bieler back in the 1980s is still a great inspiration practical book and can be purchased for around 2 or 3 dollars on the Net.

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By walterbard, August 19, 2010 at 4:29 am Link to this comment

To Ardee

Do you work for the antisemite Hedges who writes anti
israel tirades for this site. Hedges rants and raves
about the Israeli Cast Lead military action against
Gaza and never mentions that Hamas fired 10,000
rockets at Israel and that was why Israel reacted.

You babble about what Ben Gurion said in 1937 but neglect to mention that this was during the 1936 to
1939 so-called Arab revolt. The Arabs initiated the
revolt by ambushing Jewish settlements. Hundreds were
killed. The Grand Mufti called for the massacre
of all Jews. And you cherry pick statments made by
Ben Gurion while the Arabs were attacking Jewish settlements and the Mufti called for genocide.

One other point. When moslems bomb each other’s mosques as they did in Iraq and kill worshippers
including women and children what was the reaction
of the moslem world? And the so called human rights activists. answer Zero!
But when Israel soldiers defended themselves against
the attack by the Mara terrorists the arab world
cried loud corcodile tears along with the phony human
rights activists.
Bottom line. The so called apartheid atate allowed
arabs to stay in 1949 and gave them citizenship.
The Jews in arab countries were persecuted
and driven out about 850,000. 600,000 settled in Israel The irony is that Arab racist apartheid tactics helped populate and build the Jewish
State.

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By Inherit The Wind, August 19, 2010 at 4:18 am Link to this comment

Whatever the case may be, I didn’t appreciate all the effort you exhibited to show off your pretentious knowledge of the history of the American Constitution. This is common knowledge that can be found in any reference book or encyclopedia, which a scholar like me can easily research.
******************************

It simply proves your evaluation of the founding fathers and the Constitution to be false.  If you WERE a scholar and took the time to “easily research” this, you would never have made the absurd and inane statements you did.

You can say God feeds you, but the food in your belly, the roof over your head, the money in your bank account, and the FREEDOM to heap your abuse on me and this nation are thanks to the men and women who built this nation.  If you enjoy these blessings thanks to God, it is because He was working through those men and women who built and bled for it.

I’m always amazed at how there is nobody as savage and unGodly as one who thinks he has the ONLY valid voice to that God.  That’s you, Arabian Sinbad.  Since you hate this nation so much you should leave it and go find your Utopia elsewhere, rather than suckling off it, then bitching about it.

Because you aren’t trying to make it better, you are just trying to justify why the US should vanish.

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By drbhelthi, August 19, 2010 at 4:01 am Link to this comment

Some seem to forget, that comments are comments.
Whether hot&heavy;, or calm&cool;, they reflect the
opinion of the submitting person. Persons who
“claim” to represent their caste, their religious
society, their satanic cult, Americans, Moslems,
South Sea Islanders or whatever, are a wee bit on
the presumptuous side.  Reminds me of a particular
psychiatrist joke about sex.

Even the alleged “surveys” that are reported,
typically reflect only the group of persons queried.
Interviewees are often carefully selected in order
to portray the desired slant. Typically, surveys are
no better than the fraudulent reports of medical
research in the last fifty years, doctored and
adulterated to reflect the bent of the pharma
company that funded them. Or the US FDA, adulterated
by comrade Rumsfeld in 1981. Who, with his “bird
flu” fraud, 2003, elevated the cost of his “Tamiflu”
from $8 to over $100. 

Sort of like the “Transplant Industry” complaining
en masse two years ago, wanting more healthy people
to die so as to provide MORE usable organs to
transplant into the sick bodies of patients who
abuse their bodies.

The pharma industry has been “fucking” Americans
without the benefit of intercourse, since 1960,
perhaps earlier. In spite of the honest physicians
such as Dr. Ralph Moss, and his eight books
revealing the fraud of “Oncology” and
“chemotherapy,” it took a movie star, Suzanne Somers
and her book, “Knockout” to finally convince
Americans of the oncology fraud. Doesn’t “toot the
horn” very loud for the intelligence of Americans.

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By ardee, August 19, 2010 at 3:07 am Link to this comment

walterbard, August 19 at 2:16 am Link to this comment

To Ardee

It’s you who are not familiar with the subject

No, it is you that uses “selective facts” and omits any such that would contradict your bloodthirsty genocidal, emotional and unreasoning hatred of the homeless and stateless Palestinian peoples, made such, by the by, by your beloved Israel.

In 1937 eleven future leaders of Israel, including David ben Gurion met in Haifa and, among other things, decided that it would be necessary to oust one million Arabs from their ancestral homes in what was to become the state of Israel. Thus the seeds of war and destruction were sown eleven years before that state came into being.

Further, the casualties and the destruction of property in this insane and unfair conflict is so one sided as to be astonishing,at least to anyone with a shred of conscience or humanity. I am ,frankly, ashamed of the govt of Israel, which has forgotten the centuries of oppression committed upon the Jews as they now commit upon others. On every hand Israel has provoked, refused to act in a decent and humanitarian fashion, demonstrated a naked imperialism against a tragic and desperate people, made so by Israel itself. One small example of which is the embargoing of medical supplies and foodstuffs, causing untoward suffering to innocent children.

You may demonstrate your refusal to act in a rational and sane manner, you can continue to ignore the cause and effect that places Israel squarely in the spotlight of human rights violations and international law breakers. You can continue to post your possibly insane hatreds and ridiculous justifications for the unjustifiable. But you will fool noone with this propagandized rant of yours.

The state of Israel stands condemned of crimes against humanity. While I do not call for the destruction of that state, as they do for the disallowing of a state for the Palestinians, I refuse to allow my heritage to blind my judgment, as apparently do you.

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By Money is funny, August 19, 2010 at 1:32 am Link to this comment

I meant to say that I have no interest, without demeaning. Please forgive me for saying us.

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By archivesDave, August 19, 2010 at 1:23 am Link to this comment

Prole:
“Scheer has lost it again”...
Come now my friend, do u think he ever had it to begin with?
You, and I both know who the real boogey men and false flaggers are and we also know that Scheer, along with most of these guys, are charter members of the “obfuscators’ Club” n’est pas?
I would include both David Icke and Maxwell Jordan in the lot however, they’re far more elevated in the food chain and a lot closer to the Truth.

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By Money is funny, August 19, 2010 at 12:57 am Link to this comment

“If you believe the official 9 eleven story, you’re supporting the real terrorists”

In the ensuing four decades since the assassination of JFK, theories have been proposed or published that detail organized conspiracies to kill the President. These theories implicate, among others, Cuban President Fidel Castro, the anti-Castro Cuban community, Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson, the Mafia, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), E. Howard Hunt, and the Eastern Bloc – or perhaps some combination of these.

Various polls have shown that 6% to 28% of the people surveyed in various locations do not think the Moon landing happened.

Snooze

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By fearnotruth, August 19, 2010 at 12:49 am Link to this comment

RE: ...we have no interest in the people and their particular opinions that you are referring
to.

Clearly Funny Money speaks mainly for his/her own self, as so many worldwide do have an interest
in the progeny of Abraham. I too am too often annoyed with the seemingly eternal family feud
amongst said progeny, but choose not to go out of my way to insult them, nor buy into the Middle
East horror that is laid at the feet of this feud. It’s too easily and too often manipulated to tragic ends
by operatives in service only to The Global Finance Oligarchy.

The most redeeming aspect to Mr. Scheer’s article is it’s assertion that, at the very least, common
human decency should prevail, and that trumps gratuitous insult. Among those put off by religion
(me included), there are those boisterous few, who, feeling beleaguered by its ubiquitous and
insidious nature, are compelled to insult the faithful brethren, and that unfortunately serves to paint
all atheists as rude and disrespectful, whereas most are kind and caring - not unlike most religiously
faithful. Regardless what we/they think/believe, most people really don’t want to harm anyone.

This so-call Clash of Civilizations, as per Samuel Huntington’s infamous treatise is simply an ill-
reasoned provocative polemic, seized upon by the Neocon Project for the New American Century,
whose most infamous document was Rebuilding America’s Defenses, Section V of of which is
“Creating Tomorrow’s Dominant Force”, which includes the sentence: “Further, the process of
transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor” - e.g. 9/11

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By poolman, August 19, 2010 at 12:17 am Link to this comment

A lot of good comments here, along with the usual head-in-the-sand bigoted types. It doesn’t matter if they are democrat or republican, they are just reading the script.  Get with the program.  The owners tell them what to do and they abide.  Damn effective marketing in America, for sure.  Even the media is playing their part.

How can anyone still think it makes a difference who is elected.  This corrupt machine only moves downhill and easily crushes those trying to slow it down.

This was a good read with good links and information.  If you believe the official 9 eleven story, you’re supporting the real terrorists.

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By Money is funny, August 18, 2010 at 11:52 pm Link to this comment

“I made Pilgrimage to the first House of Worship, erected by our ancestor Abraham and his son in Mecca, known as the Ka’bah”

I went to my friends house yesterday. His name is Josh known as Josh. I think that we solved life’s riddle.

Blah Blah or something.

I am pretty good about respecting peoples traditions, but I am pretty sure that your sentence is overly dramatic and has no substance considering that we have no interest in the people and their particular opinions that you are referring to.

(I want my mommy)

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By Arabian Sinbad, August 18, 2010 at 10:35 pm Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind, August 19 at 1:10 am Link to this comment

Arabian Sinbad continues to spit on the hand that feeds him and with no understanding.
======================================
In the Arabic idiom, when someone exerts great effort that produces petty results, the proverb says: “The mountain shook and roared to give birth to a tiny mouse.” This is your example,ITW, and your habit that you keep exhibiting with great consistency. Yet I still don’t understand what to attribute it to? Is it your Zionist traits? Is it the result of the bullying you were exposed to as a Jewish boy (which you shared on these threads) and now you want to avenge it at someone you think is weaker than you and more disadvantaged?! Or is it some psychological disease which Sigmund Freud failed to dis-cipher before his death?!

Whatever the case may be, I didn’t appreciate all the effort you exhibited to show off your pretentious knowledge of the history of the American Constitution. This is common knowledge that can be found in any reference book or encyclopedia, which a scholar like me can easily research.

As to your stupid judgmental statement about me continuing to spit on the hand that feeds me, I think you got this terribly wrong and in reverse; for the hand that feeds me is that of the One God, we call him Allah in Arabic, and for his feeding and clothing me and granting me the gift of reason that you lack, I pray to him five times a day, I fast a whole month, I give part of my earnings in charity (this is called Zakat; i.e. purification of wealth) and I made Pilgrimage to the first House of Worship, erected by our ancestor Abraham and his son in Mecca, known as the Ka’bah.

So make sure that you learn that neither the American Constitution, nor the flawed American so-called democracy feeds me. By the will of the One Transcendent GOD, Whom you have the misfortune of not recognizing HIM, I feed, clothe and shelter myself.

So if there one who is fed by America, it’s you and your fellow Zionists in Israel, who despite of being fed by American tax-payer money, to the tone of billions of told and untold dollars, including some of my hard earned money, you Zionists keep biting the hands that feed you to the point of making from you the evil marauders occupiers and the most notorious international terrorists that the modern human history has known.

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By walterbard, August 18, 2010 at 10:16 pm Link to this comment

To Ardee

It’s you who are not familiar with the subject. Yes it’s true that in Medieval times Islam
was a more tolerant religion but even then there were anti jewish actions and anti
Christian actions But that was hundreds of years ago.

“You could start with the fact that the oldest synagogue extant and the oldest catholic church are both found in Baghdad.”
No, it’s you who are ignorant. If you had knowledge of the subject you would not
have mentioned the above quote. Did you expect to prove that Islam is a tolerant
religion by citing this irrelevant nonsense? In June 1941 there was an action in Baghdad known as the Farhoud where hundreds of Jews were killed by moslem extremists egged on by the Nazis.

In 1967 Jews were publically hanged in the streets by Saddam Hussein on trumped up espionage charges with thousands of devout, nonviolent moslems cheering.
The connection between Nazism and Palestinian nationalism is a matter of record.
Amin Haj Husseini who was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem from 1922 to 1936
was praised by Yassir Arafat as the spiritual and political of Palestinian nationalism.
He was a virulent, vicious anti-Semite responsible for the racist riots of 1929
and 1936. Incidentally, it’s the Arabs who are occupying Gaza and Hebron.
The Jews were driven out of both territories in 1929 by the “peaceful” Moslems.
During WW2 the mufti was in that citadel of tolerance, Nazi Germany.
In 1943 the founder of Palestinian nationalism, at the behest of that great humanitarian
Heinrich Himmler created the Hansar division of the Waffen SS which was responsible for the death of thousands.
While there are still thousands of Arabs who
are citizens of Israel, almost all Jews were
driven out of every arab country. So much
for Moslem tolerance. The Moslems can’t even get along with themselves. The Sunnis and shi’ites have been killing each other long before there was an Israel as a scapegoat for moslem self-inflicted misery.
I suggest you familiarize yourself with the subject.

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By Money is funny, August 18, 2010 at 10:09 pm Link to this comment

Hey,

Let’s put a ballot in the graves of our “founding fathers” and let their rotting corpses sort this whole mess out for us. The whole situation is giving me a headache at this point and I am confused about dead people (not present) putting in their opinions frankly!

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By Inherit The Wind, August 18, 2010 at 9:10 pm Link to this comment

Arabian Sinbad continues to spit on the hand that feeds him and with no understanding.

The Founding Fathers were flawed, knew it, and would be horrified to see themselves deified, from Adams, to Franklin, to Jefferson, to Washington, they all saw themselves as weak and flawed.

They wrote a Constitution realizing they were probably making all kinds of mistakes, so they added the Amendment process, which had to be enacted immediately—thus the Bill of Rights.  The recent 27th Amendment was one of the original proposed 12.

They knew that people were weak and corrupt so they built their Constitution to compensate for that, knowing we couldn’t rely on people’s good will.

The Constitution has only been changed 27 times, out of hundreds of proposals, and even less than that:
Consider:
1) The BOR and the 27th Amendment were essentially up-front changes.  That leaves 16 Amendments.
2) The 20th Amendment simply canceled the 18th Amendment.  That leaves 14.
3) The 13th, 14th, 15th, 19th, 23rd, 24th and 26th are ALL simply further refinements of the 9th Amendment and further personal liberties.  That leaves 7 amendments.
4) The 11th and 12th fix the electoral process, and the 17th allows for election of Senators by the people.  That leaves 4.
5) Income tax, term limits and the succession in case of the death or incapacitation of the President, and the moving of the inauguration forward 2 months take care of the rest.

Changes? Seems to be a VERY reasonable and slow series of changes over 220 years.

But A-S will continue to bite the hand the feeds him.  He will continue to enjoy freedoms unknown in his homeland, and decry the nation that grants those freedoms.

Some people just don’t know how good they got it.

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By RayLan, August 18, 2010 at 8:51 pm Link to this comment

@Attila - your hatred is too simple-minded to be confusing. Whether Muslims denounce other Muslims isn’t your business. It doesn’t justifiy your generalized bigotry.

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By Atilla, August 18, 2010 at 8:24 pm Link to this comment

Sorry if I confused you Raylan…I was trying to reply to Arabian Sinbad who was chastising me for basically telling him that American Muslims need to publicly disavow radical Islam.

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By RayLan, August 18, 2010 at 8:03 pm Link to this comment

@Attila growled
“that f…n bloody bigots, racists and irrational hate mongers like you should not be given a forum to vent “
Wonderfully twisted tirade that makes tolerance and the supremacy of the first ammendment into intolerance. I would be entertained by this perversion of logic if it weren’t so pathological, blind and dangerous.

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By Atilla, August 18, 2010 at 7:20 pm Link to this comment

By Arabian Sinbad, August 18 at 4:52 pm Link to this comment

By Atilla, August 18 at 4:26 pm Link to this comment

“I suggest that Scheer take his tolerance and stick it up his sorry butt. Muslims have ZERO tolerance for anyone who believes other than the way they do. Why won’t the Muslim leaders in this country come and and publicly, on TV, condemn radical Islam? They won’t do it because their religion forbids it. So they use our own “tolerance” against us thanks to the dumb ass “tolerant” liberals. Muslims believe that we are all infidels, and their way of dealing with infidels is to kill them. It is way past time for us to stop babying these people.”
=======================================
But I, and reason and civility are on my side, that f…n bloody bigots, racists and irrational hate mongers like you should not be given a forum to vent their venomous bigotry and racism. In medical jargon this is called “preventive” medicine to ward off the spread of this very serious contagious disease that you represent!

___________________________________________________

Thank you Arabian Sinbad, you just made my point for me.

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By Money is funny, August 18, 2010 at 7:19 pm Link to this comment

It should be ruled that no one with religious and or political agendas will be allowed to stand on that land considering the role they have played their.

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By Money is funny, August 18, 2010 at 7:00 pm Link to this comment

I have reason to believe that the Kennedy’s were killed by “Space Monkey”.

Blow back from the Russian space program:

http://www.myspace.com/spacemonkeyonthemoon

If I was handling this project it would be a massive garden with lots of colorful flowers that represent the people who were killed there. There would be statues and sculptures. Nothing political or religious or typical like firefighters (love/respect to them).

Like the way it might have been done in Paris ages ago.

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By MeHere, August 18, 2010 at 6:59 pm Link to this comment

Arabian Sinbad - Justin Weleski:

Just clarifying and adding some comments. I wasn’t really disparaging the
Constitution and the founding fathers. It’s just that it has become an overused
cliche that has lost relevance. It strikes me as the obligatory gimmick everyone
feels compelled to use in order to add something of value to their views.

At the same time, you both make good points on the deification of historic
figures. I don’t know enough on the subject but there are historians and legal
scholars who try to shed light on the subject. Some think the Constitution itself
needs to be revised. And it all makes sense because we live in such different
times.  I’m afraid the Founding Fathers “R” Us.

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By fearnotruth, August 18, 2010 at 6:51 pm Link to this comment

Is it being intolerant to fight the advancement of a culture or religion which
practices such gruesome behavior…
- e.g. honor killings, not so dissimilar to
witch burnings, not so long ago banned in the West.

But, of course, none of this has anything to do with The Global War Of Terror - a
sweeping program designed literally to terrorize virtually everyone, especially
those with self-determinant aspirations.

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By Leefeller, August 18, 2010 at 6:13 pm Link to this comment

The Great Unyun is the only deity who will sit down and have a Tequila with me, actually more than one.  This burning bush crap story sounds stupid and I don’t know about you,  the talking snake thing is a real stretch.

After a few Tequilas, the Great Unyun really gets pissed whenever I happen to bring up the Ark story.  She wants to know how the kangaroos and Panda bears made the trip and what about the manure problem from all the animals…..... “a little credibility please” Unyun asks?

Just imagine 40 days and 40 nights with a couple of elephants and donkeys?  Do you know how much manure an elephant puts out?  One need just look at the Republicans?

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By FiftyGigs, August 18, 2010 at 6:11 pm Link to this comment

“Consider the full implication of that call for an international cold war against Islam by the former GOP House speaker.”

Don’t.

Because Gingrich won’t.

This is funzies by self-proclaimed conservatives who are little more than grifters, imbibing in sex, drugs, and graft by representing themselves as caretakers—this is the hilarious part—of American values while they engage in personal behavior that any evangelical would despise, but let’s keep that quiet.

Doubtless, Gingrich and Palin and Limbaugh and Beck must wake up astonished that evangelicals keep falling for their garbage, even after personal divorces, political failures, out of wedlock pregnancies, with nary a quote from Jesus uttered by their pure lips.

Eight years of Bush and Republican rule, and Muslim terrorists are walking into downtown New York office buildings negotiating for property. That’s what conservatives say is happening. Didn’t Bush promise to protect America? Why didn’t he?

The current conservative terrorist attack on Muslims is simply a tool to reinforce the marketing message that conservatives are the defenders of American values. Okay, maybe this is an oopsie, but they’re just spirited boys with the right intentions.

Who you gonna call anyway?

An immoral thug who understands you? Or a liberal brainiac who doesn’t get the joke and goes wandering off in consideration of the—wait for it—the global ramification of Newt’s “position”?

Put it like that and, heck, even I might support the conservative realist! Who’s really out of touch here?

Liberals need to get a grip. You don’t fight conservatism with abstract philosophy. You fight these thugs with values. Theirs.

For example.

Sarah Palin wants the power to decide where you can worship. Do you favor her or any government bureaucrat having that power? No?

Sounds like news to me.

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By Arabian Sinbad, August 18, 2010 at 6:11 pm Link to this comment

By Justin Weleski, August 18 at 6:12 pm

“Also, I agree with MeHere; our nation’s Founding
Fathers fetishism has to stop.  These men were not
deities.  They did not ascend to Heaven upon golden
chariots.  In fact, most would be considered
hypocrites if one compared their actions to their
lofty rhetoric.”
=========================
I really liked your profound comment referenced above, especially the part about the so-called “Founding Fathers.” The same thought crossed my mind several times before as I heard or read journalists and politician talk about them as deities, when, in fact they were erring mortals who would not stand the test of morality as we understand it in our times.

In summary, I would say that those Founding Fathers has been overrated all these years.

And parallel to the issue of the Founding Fathers is the issue of both the American Constitution and the much-bragged-about American democracy. Both of them certainly overrated by zealot nationalist Americans, which sometimes parallels or exceed the most Zealots of Jews, Christians or Muslims.

If the American Constitution was so great and well-thought about as valid for all times and places, it would not have undergone the many amendments it has undergone over the years.

Likewise is the issue of the American democracy! My main perplexing issues about American democracy are two serious points: Why does a so-perfect democracy need all the dirty money poured over it to produce another tier of imperfect human beings to run the nation’s affairs, both domestic and foreign?!

On the other hand, why does a perfect democracy need always to ally itself with and befriend marauders occupiers, fascists, dictators, despots, theocratic or totalitarian regimes etc, like Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan, while on the other hand fighting freedom fighters and liberation movements, such as Hamas, Hizbullah, Cuba, and Venezuela, to mention only few?!

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By ofersince72, August 18, 2010 at 6:06 pm Link to this comment

I believe this country needs a

C A P I T O L   H I L L   D A Y

where all the lawmakers sit out on the steps of
Capitol Hill and public gets to chant..

C O W A R D S…..C O W A R D S…......C O W A R D S…..

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By gerard, August 18, 2010 at 6:06 pm Link to this comment

Sorry to have put the bead only on Republicans in my previoius comment.  Democrats are certainly not exempt from irrationality and prejudice, as the cooperation of many Democrats in the current wars makes plain.  To a considerable degree the current wars in the Middle East are based on sanctioning prejudice—religious, cultural, whatever—and to the degree that Democrats sign in to that camp they are equally guilty.  In fact, Democrats’ sanctioning of such prejudice may be even more dangerous than the more overt right wing extremism because less obvious, less conscious, more deeply buried and hence more difficult to recognize and expunge.

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By Spooky-43, August 18, 2010 at 6:06 pm Link to this comment

About a year ago, I read an article about “honor killings” and ever since, I have followed whhatever news is available on the subject.  I have come to realize that there are thousands of these killings of women and young girls in the west alone.

Why is this subject not adequately addressed?  I am not a xenophobe, and I like to think I am not a racist, but I have a problem with any culture, religion or race which practices such abusive acts against women and other minorities.

Is it being intolerant to fight the advancement of a culture or religion which practices such gruesome behavior in such large numbers?

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By ofersince72, August 18, 2010 at 5:42 pm Link to this comment

Gerard, Scheer knows all about the politics of fear
and practices it well, as this stupid, stupid,
column and about a half dozen others we have had on the
same subject prove…..

The Democrats , as we speak , are blowing Muslims up ! !

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By Martin P. Serna, August 18, 2010 at 5:05 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Dear President Obama, with this issue you have the chance to win EVERYTHING. Donot back-peddle. Tell us that to not build an Islamic something-or-ever at this site is actually anti-American. This is the make-or-break issue for your re-election and for other Democrats. Set the tone in this country for the next hundred years.
A few members of a group are taken as representitive of all of them. All Jews killed Christ. All Muslims are terrorists. All Christians perpretrated the holocaust. Who will be the ones to forgive first?
Do not the Japanese in this country not enjoy a different status than they use to? America has PROVEN herself to be capable of a little change. Nobody is going to GIVE you your freedom, FIGHT for it! Whilst Muslim countries are retributive of non-Muslims. The Yemini Jewish singer, Ofra Haza, had said her people were intolerated so she made it to Israel.

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By gerard, August 18, 2010 at 4:46 pm Link to this comment

Robert Scheer:  The Republicans are “terminally frightened” and have learned how to use fear to spread more fear and disable rational political action.  The only protest permitted comes from hysterical radicals who are “against” some bugaboo fed to them by Fox News and other media who fall under the spell of using hysteria to make money.

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By bluedragonfly, August 18, 2010 at 4:39 pm Link to this comment

Wow, this is crazy. All Muslims do not think alike. Neither does any other group that share the same label.
People are so filled with hate and they don’t even know why. I everyone practice what they claim.. God fearing, God Loving….. We would be better off.
Someone has to be the voice of reason.
You say Muslim Leaders don’t condemn… give me a break.  There are splinter groups of all faiths that are just plain evil.  I’m sorry that people that share my faith are so short sighted that this and other horrible things happened. However; I was born
my here on this soil my father fought and died in Vietnam, my brother fought and died in desert storm, my husband fought in desert storm, and my son is in Afghanistan. I served 4 years in the Air Force. We are Muslims.  African American Muslims. So telling me I’m not American enough to visit a community center because its two blocks from a site that was the stage where a multicultural, multi-faith murder took place.  There were Muslims murdered as well.  These people kill Muslims that don’t agree with them too you know.

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By Anarcissie, August 18, 2010 at 4:28 pm Link to this comment


Justin Weleski, August 18 at 6:12 pm:

‘... Also, I agree with MeHere; our nation’s Founding
Fathers fetishism has to stop.  These men were not
deities.  They did not ascend to Heaven upon golden
chariots.  In fact, most would be considered
hypocrites if one compared their actions to their
lofty rhetoric.

Now, that is not to say I don’t value their lofty
rhetoric, but that it’s about time we develop and
present our ideas without appealing to the “Gods” of
our nation.’

I kind of like the Bill of Rights, myself.  The Founding Fathers may have been a bunch of hypocrites, but I think it was rather clever of them in particular to put the government out of the religion business, both as to establishing a church, or interfering with any.  And it’s fun to ask all these right-wing thugs who pretend to be conservatives why they don’t want to conserve the First Amendment.

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By FRTothus, August 18, 2010 at 4:25 pm Link to this comment

DAMN!, Prole, August 18 at 3:19 pm, but didn’t you
just hit all the nails smack on the head.
 
Much Respect!

And, Diamond, August 18 at 4:43 pm, I applaud your
analysis, and think it absolutely spot on.  Much
Respect.

I believe this future event will use TV and the grey-
boxing techniques, not through video this time, but
with easier-to-manipulate digital, and will again be
a “legitimate” operation “gone wrong”.  The glitches
we saw on TV gave the game away last time, if one but
look, and those very techniques of persuasion must
have been deemed effective… The operation worked to
convince Americans that Muslims did this. The
US/Anglo fascists did the Reichstag Fire one better -
and on TV!.  And it destroyed the evidence against
Enron and WorldCom.  Bush/Cheney paying a debt. 
Silverstein makes a bundle.  Israel gets invited for
the fireworks.  The US gets its war for oil and
heroin and domination.  The hated and beaten up New
Deal on its deathbed, as is the notion that we have
some responsibility to ourselves and each other been
banished. The US constitution and that troublesome
Bill of Rights dismantled, all legal-like.  Might
makes right, torture is legal again. We don’t need no
stinking badges.  Mission accomplished!  Hitler said
that he would’ve won the war if he had control of the
US media the way US private Trusts did.  If these
dangerous US fascists of both “our” political parties
are not defeated, not routed out, I fear terribly for
justice and the rule of law.  Democracy defeated by
Aristocratic Capitalists, bent on maintaining or
increasing the disparity of wealth and privilege. 
I’m afraid the Republic we once were told we had is
lost, and maybe never was.  Madison warned us about
the banks and warned us about the Combines.  But
monied interests took everything that wasn’t nailed
down, and proceeded to buy the rest.  This country
has been Hamiltonian and John Jay (taxpayer support
of private fiefdoms) top-down rule all along, and we
have been lied to and pulled along with lofty, lying
words about how we were all in this together, but
learned from “our” leaders and bosses how to be
rapacious, how to exploit others, and how not to take
responsibility for anything, or hold anyone
accountable for their actions, unless they’re poor,
or without office or “connections”, and then nobody
cares about them anyway.  It’s our sacred duty (to
our investments) to exploit them, right?

PS.  Question: Wasn’t it not really the Banks we
bailed out, but all the bond-holders that might have
lost part of their investment?  The Banks were highly
complicit, yes, but aren’t there others behind that
teller’s window?

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By ardee, August 18, 2010 at 3:16 pm Link to this comment

walterbard, August 18 at 8:51 am

When you familiarize yourself with your subject one might have a rational discussion with you. You could start with the fact that the oldest synagogue extant and the oldest catholic church are both found in Baghdad. We might then turn to the fact that it isn’t a mosque proposed for that site in NYC but a Moslem cultural center.

As far as any blanket statement about all followers of Islam you might learn that it is the largest organized religion in the world with a membership of 1.4 billion. Any comment that lumps all those people together is a pretty silly one.

Atilla, August 18 at 4:26 pm

Wipe the spittle from your chin and understand that it is we who have been slaughtering them, we in the west and Israel in the east.

Inherit The Wind, August 18 at 12:25 pm

Exaggerations are generally off and offputting as well. There are ignorant folks everywhere, left and right. Much of the stuff you hate to read about the state of Israel is correct, sad to say. I agree that those who use “Jews” when they mean “Israel” are a bit short of grasping the reality of the situation there. Just as those who call all followers of Islam intolerant and terrorists are a few cards short of a full deck.

Of course, those like the two above your name in this post have only one oar in the water anyway.

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By samosamo, August 18, 2010 at 2:36 pm Link to this comment

****************


By ofersince72, August 18 at 5:33 pm
““After the 2006 elections, there was a ground swell

movement to impeach G. Bush, phone ins, letters, faxes”“
***************************

One incredibly discouraging moment when pelosi, the
mummy(that ain’t short for mom), announced almost before the
polls had closed that IMPEACHMENT was off the table. There
were not a few that were angered by her insolent rebuke of
those that put the ‘dimocrats’ back in charge of both the house
and the senate and who wanted the all too obvious crimes of w
& dick investigated and prosecuted.

And I don’t think I would be wrong in saying that when little w
took o into the whitehouse for a talk that o was told that any
investigations would cause o some serious bodily harm. Bush
crime family have ways of shutting up their antagonists.

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By Justin Weleski, August 18, 2010 at 2:12 pm Link to this comment

Political opportunists are stoking the flames of fear
and hatred for personal gain.  It’s doubtful any of
these folks (Newt Gingrich included) honestly care if
the Islamic community center is built two blocks from
Ground Zero.  This is simply another opportunity to
score political points, to slander one’s political
opponents, and to feed one’s ego.

Unfortunately, the opportunists’ efforts have been
successful in enraging the general public.  It’s not
difficult to see why this could be dangerous (or
perhaps even catastrophic) in the long run.

But the opportunists don’t care.  If the opinion
polls move a few points in their favor this week,
then it was all worth it.  Principle, morality,
wisdom, and ethics be damned.

Also, I agree with MeHere; our nation’s Founding
Fathers fetishism has to stop.  These men were not
deities.  They did not ascend to Heaven upon golden
chariots.  In fact, most would be considered
hypocrites if one compared their actions to their
lofty rhetoric.

Now, that is not to say I don’t value their lofty
rhetoric, but that it’s about time we develop and
present our ideas without appealing to the “Gods” of
our nation.

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By tommy, August 18, 2010 at 1:57 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

it wasn’t american muslims that attacked on 9/11. it was however american christians that attacked on april 19th in OKC. one of our countries foundations is religious freedoms. and this mosque is two blocks away from the hole left. the term ground zero has a finite meaning. it’s over used. so american muslims cannot be allowed to have freedoms to build on land they own? if this is your logic, then in all the churches and businesses that surround the bombing site in OKC should be leveled or vacated also. if american muslims bother you then leave. and take the rest of the radical christians with you.

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By ofersince72, August 18, 2010 at 1:33 pm Link to this comment

After the 2006 elections, there was a ground swell

movement to impeach G. Bush, phone ins, letters, faxes

ect.

  We need to do the same thing with Obama, of course
it won’t work but at least it will send a messege to the
next asshole that becomes
P R E S I D E N T O F T H E U N I T E D S T A T E S

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By Arabian Sinbad, August 18, 2010 at 12:52 pm Link to this comment

By Atilla, August 18 at 4:26 pm Link to this comment

“I suggest that Scheer take his tolerance and stick it up his sorry butt. Muslims have ZERO tolerance for anyone who believes other than the way they do. Why won’t the Muslim leaders in this country come and and publicly, on TV, condemn radical Islam? They won’t do it because their religion forbids it. So they use our own “tolerance” against us thanks to the dumb ass “tolerant” liberals. Muslims believe that we are all infidels, and their way of dealing with infidels is to kill them. It is way past time for us to stop babying these people.”
=======================================
But I, and reason and civility are on my side, that f…n bloody bigots, racists and irrational hate mongers like you should not be given a forum to vent their venomous bigotry and racism. In medical jargon this is called “preventive” medicine to ward off the spread of this very serious contagious disease that you represent!

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By diamond, August 18, 2010 at 12:43 pm Link to this comment

The reasons the establishment can’t admit who really did 9/11 aren’t that hard to understand:

1. Admitting it would make them all look like fools or accomplices.

2. If they admit it, they will have to do something about it by setting an actual investigation of the crime in motion with the normal rules of a criminal investigation in place.

3. Admitting what really happened de-legitimizes all of it: the torture, the false imprisonment, the disappearances of Muslim males (at least 5,000 on the American mainland alone), the oil wars, the death and destruction caused by an act of treason, the kidnappings of people who have committed no crime and the bankrupting of America via war and a pseudo-Fascist surveillance state. This could lead to years of lawsuits costing trillions of dollars, not to mention the damage to America’s idea of itself as a beacon of democracy and all round good guys.

4. America would have to undergo a period of self-reflection and the rules governing the Pentagon, the power to declare war and the CIA would all have to be altered. This would be a nightmare politically and would require leadership from the media as well as politicians. Fox News doesn’t do truth or bi-partisanship and none of the other mainstream media outlets do either. They will never tell the truth about 9/11 because many of them were complicit or had foreknowledge of the event.

However if none of this is done, America will continue in the downward spiral it is in and will ultimately self-destruct. The people who did 9/11 may call their Facist law the Patriot Act but no patriot would ever inflict such a law on their own country and fellow citizens. And that’s only Patriot Act I. Patriot Act II waits in the wings to be put into law at some future time after some future terror event planned and carried out by the government and the military. If America survives that long as some form of democracy.

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By Atilla, August 18, 2010 at 12:26 pm Link to this comment

I suggest that Scheer take his tolerance and stick it up his sorry butt. Muslims have ZERO tolerance for anyone who believes other than the way they do. Why won’t the Muslim leaders in this country come and and publicly, on TV, condemn radical Islam? They won’t do it because their religion forbids it. So they use our own “tolerance” against us thanks to the dumb ass “tolerant” liberals. Muslims believe that we are all infidels, and their way of dealing with infidels is to kill them. It is way past time for us to stop babying these people.

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By tropicgirl, August 18, 2010 at 11:39 am Link to this comment

Yeah, all this cozy Muslim-State Department kissy-face really makes me
nervous. Meanwhile we have mounted something close to an extermination
‘round the world, of Muslims, ones we don’t like, or who don’t like us, who we
have blamed, alternately, for the “terrist” act of the moment.

Something about this reminds me of the recent, failed Green Revolution, in
Iran, with US state-sponsored “Muslims” agitating for a coup against the
Muslim leadership. I thought I read somewhere there was a even an actual
linkage with the mosque group, but I am not sure where I heard it.

Democrats can whine all they want NOW, about the resentment toward the
Muslims in NY, but their utter failure to adequately investigate the truth about
911, The Incident That Served As the Irrefutable Reason for Perpetual War In
the Middle East, is the real problem. This is the result. And it feeds into the
hands of the Perpetual Warmongers.

Can’t have it both ways. The Democrats fueled this as much as the Republicans,
thereby both being patsies.

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By fearnotruth, August 18, 2010 at 11:36 am Link to this comment

...fabricated wedge issue to pit Americans against one another.

Now the primary mission of virtually all media in the USA - even Democracy Now
this morning hosted a debate on this, while the 9/11 Myth goes unchallenged -
not even to take the most obviously simple investigative line, “Who took the
windfall from put options on AA and UA placed just days before the event, and
why won’t the SEC disclose that information?” One must question Democracy
Now’s essential mission!

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By prole, August 18, 2010 at 11:19 am Link to this comment

Scheer has lost it again. Once again in pursuit of a Republican bogeyman, he falls into the same old trap of accepting the two party mirage for its own sake. Newt is now a gnat but Scheer still can’t resist such a hapless target, even if it means making some irrational choices of his own. And so this war of words now “poses a profound threat to our national security…[and]… some top Democrats like Harry Reid are willing to demean Muslims even as we fight two wars in which victory depends on our ability to convey a respect for their religion.” And just what two wars are “we” fighting? Presumably this refers to Iraq and Afghanistan both of which are illegal and unclear and in neither of which have we – or can we – even define what it is or who it is “we” are fighting or what defines “victory”. So is Scheer now endorsing these two illegal foreign debacles that have killed hundreds of thousands (and counting) just to spite the Grinch? Did it take the paltry Newt Gingrich to get Scheer on board in the latest crusades against the Taliban or the “theocratic leaders of Iran”? “Demonization of the” opponents of these illegal invasions “is what this brouhaha is all about.”  “Talk of the sensitivity of the victims of 9/11” is part an on-going effort to prop up flagging public support for these infamous occupations. Talk of the Muslim religion and “ignoring those who were Muslim, is just camouflage.” “The logical implication of the comparison that Newt Gingrich made when he likened the proposed erection of a Muslim community center two blocks from the World Trade Center site to putting a Nazi sign next to the Holocaust Museum”…is that there should be any Holocaust Museums in America in the first place, which is illogical and politically motivated; and secondly, that America should develop a Holocaust Industry of its own to camouflage these illegal occupations, like Israel does.
  “Consider the full implication of that call for an international cold war against Islam by the former GOP House speaker”…it will probably very much enhance his support among the zionist neo-con’s in his party (and the Dem’s) for any future run for the White House. “Someone should remind Newt that both Republican and Democratic presidents have regarded Saudi Arabia as an ally in the war against”…popular democracy from below in the M.E. (and elsewhere). Someone should remind Scheer of that, as well. “So too with the Muslim-dominated government of Pakistan with which we have been allied for a half-century”…in a devil’s pact.
 
  “It is as absurd as it would be to blame all religious Jews for the assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin”…when they might better be blamed for supporting Rabin’s own assassinations of Palestinians, along with the many other brutal crimes of occupation that have been glossed over in his horrific legacy. It would be far more appropriate if the grave of that terrorist Rabin, a member of a fanatical Jewish mainstream party were marked by the erection of a war crimes tribunal near his grave. “’Whoever tortures another, wounds himself.’ Just the message most relevant to adorn a building near the site of”…Rabin’s thorny grave or the WTC. “Religious and political liberty [is] most effectively threatened by the zealotry of one’s own”…government.

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By steve, August 18, 2010 at 11:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mosque or no mosque!!!!!!!!!!!!  And while all of us are fighting about this don’t be surprised to see our beloved congress pass themselves another big payraise and the unnoticed announcements of several American corporations moving their operations “to stay competitive” ...all while the rest of us are fighting this media produced scandal.

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By BobZ, August 18, 2010 at 11:07 am Link to this comment

To think that all of this mosque hysteria was created by a right wing blogger
and given amplification by the N.Y. Post and Fox News. Another fabricated
wedge issue to pit Americans against one another. At least the MSM is
beginning to catch on to this manufactured controversy and putting these right
wing politico’s on the spot. It very apparent that millions of Americans and
hundreds of politicians can be easily manipulated by fear and a
misunderstanding of what this country stands for. It is hard to understand how
so many American’s slept through U.S. history and civics in high school. That
aside, if anyone took the time to actually visit this former Burlington Coat
Factory location, they would get a big laugh about this so called “sacred
ground” It is basically a dumpy area of NYC in bad need of an upgrade. The real
discrace is not this location but the twin facts that nothing yet has been built on
the site of the twin towers after nine years,  and the Republican Congressmen
blew off the need for health care for the first responders on 9/11. And guess
what, the people yelling loudest about this mosque are the ones living furthest
away from NYC and not the people who actually live and work in Manhattan.
The latter actually know something about that area.

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By yrscrewed, August 18, 2010 at 10:23 am Link to this comment

I can’t wait for the “Homicide Bomber” classes.  I R.S.V.P. their on “How to Stone a Female Class,”  and then there is Burkas for all babes. How about the Koran is nothing but one stupid delusional treatise about control of imbeciles. 

Sure these are fun things to do but as a non-believer of all delusions these idiots are the worst.  I want them to build their Mosque on Mars and stay there.  I believe in FREEDOM FROM RELIGION and tax them out of existence.

Peace.

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By samosamo, August 18, 2010 at 10:02 am Link to this comment

****************


What utter tosh. But I just don’t expect anything less when
dealing with the beliefs of one’s chosen mythology which directly
evidences the worst and darkest part of such a system of beliefs
that have nothing to do with respecting other people’s lives.
Clear cut case of ‘faith and belief’ overstepping its bounds.

And here is an article that promotes the idea, false, that muslims
are responsible for the attacks on 9/11/2001. This has to be
some reenforcing measure to make those willing to believe, the
dumbstream of america, that foreign terrorists carried out those
attacks, and as said before, ‘repeat a lie enough and the
dumbstream in any country will believe it.

Since the prospects of thorough investigations into the 9/11
attacks are still slim and next to none by our corrupt and
corroded government, then it still rests with those with the
forensic sense to keep giving the evidence that proves 9/11 to
be the false flag or home grown terrorist attack that it is. And
ANY religious house built on, near or around ‘ground zero’
should be denied because once again ‘belief and faith’ is used to
convince people about something wrong as true and the real
truth has to struggle to be seen and heard on blind eyes and
deaf ears.

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By walterbard, August 18, 2010 at 9:48 am Link to this comment

Whole2th or is that whole zero or just a hole?

Thanks for directing to the video. I needed a good laugh.

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By MOSBY, August 18, 2010 at 9:44 am Link to this comment

Pointing a finger at one PARTY - No Flipping Way!

Ask the families that lost a loved one during 9/11 what their opinion is. Do you
actually think they would be in favor of this - get real.

Go ask a WWII Vet if they would be in favor of putting a Japanese shrine next to
USS Arizona in Pearl Harbor - get real.

This article is nonsense… we need a real journalism, not garbage.

WAKE UP AMERICA!

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By walterbard, August 18, 2010 at 9:42 am Link to this comment

To sinbad

Thousands of black African Christians from Sudan and other countries have been escaping the “tolerant” Moslems and trying to get into Israel. So much for apartheid Israel.  The real practitioners of Apartheid are the Moslems who persecute not only Jews but also any other non Moslem. Ask any Coptic Christian in Egypt

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By whole2th, August 18, 2010 at 9:42 am Link to this comment

@Walterbard Israel is a democracy?  Surely you are being sarcastic.

Dr. Alan Sabrosky, formerly a director in the US Army War College, boldly states
that the US military knows that Israeli agents were involved in orchestrating 9-11:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGYNg6abWIc

A mosque at ground zero is the perfect symbol to counter the lies of Biblical
proportions that criminal Zionists have perpetrated upon humanity.

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By gerard, August 18, 2010 at 9:33 am Link to this comment

MeHere:  You say:  “Let’s deal with our current reality -the words that are spoken and the policies that are being made right now.”
  The words spoken in the Constitution embody and protect the very freedoms some are destroying.  It is vital that we remember those words and remind each other. 
  Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press. 
  These are the very words that “deal with our current reality” as they have been doing ever since that document was signed. Their value is not likely to decline so long as we remind each other of them and keep insisting that they be upheld.
  No more important words were ever spoken. No more important words ever guided a nation. 
  Live, print, say!

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By walterbard, August 18, 2010 at 9:32 am Link to this comment

To Arabian Sinbad.

Everything I said is factual. I guess the truth hurts and all you can do is rant and rave. Yes, Israel is a democracy and Moslems have freedom of religion. That’s a fact.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, August 18, 2010 at 8:30 am Link to this comment

I am much more concerned with the Republican attack on the Constitution in the name of racism and religious bigotry than I am with the particular contents of the racism and bigotry.

As usual much of the Democratic Party seems to be standing around with its collective thumb up its nether parts.

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By MeHere, August 18, 2010 at 8:28 am Link to this comment

And one more thing, if I may. Please, let’s stop bringing up the constitution and
the founding fathers. It has become most annoying and rather humorous by now.
And it’s not helping us one bit. We are in 2010. Let’s deal with our current reality -
-the words that are spoken and the policies that are being made right now.

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By Inherit The Wind, August 18, 2010 at 8:25 am Link to this comment

I am delighted that most of the denizens of TruthDig are horrified and offended by blind Islamaphobia.  I, too, am disgusted by it, by the distortions and flat-out lies told about the community center.  Even the lack of understanding about Sufi Muslims is distressing.  I’m a strong believer in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

But it seems perfectly acceptable here to espouse Hebrewphobia and condemn all Jews for the actions of a few.  And that just goes on and on.

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By faith, August 18, 2010 at 8:07 am Link to this comment

To markpkessinger:
Thank you Mark.  Your utube video was informative and very helpful for those of
us who are not that familiar with the location site as proposed and the
surrounding area.  Or, the layout of Manhattan and its huge skyscrapers in
general.  It really provided a much better perspective.  I wish that the major news
media and even the blog sites such as this one and Huffington Post would post
your video.  I know it would certainly have quashed a lot of the intense discussion
concerning the building of the “mosque” in my house.  Thanks again.  Your video
changed my perspective, I think that it will for others as well.

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By MeHere, August 18, 2010 at 7:59 am Link to this comment

Ground Zero for Tolerance?

What tolerance are we speaking about? Cosmetic tolerance?  For years, this
country has been engaged in demonizing and launching devastating wars
against Muslim countries under the two-party leadership voted and supported
by the US public. And now the big issue is an Islamic center near Ground Zero?

R. Scheer still tries very hard to hold on to the illusion that there’s a difference
between Democrats and Republicans in office. In fact, the big picture shows
that the net result of their policies is equally destructive.

Quoting offersince72 :

Let me be the one who tell you all how much

  D E M O C R A T S   L O V E   M U S L I M S

They love them so much they are going to stay in Iraq.

they love them so much they are going to blow them up.

they love them so much they let them drownd in Pakistan

They love them so much they keep them in concentration
camps in Palistine

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By whole2th, August 18, 2010 at 7:57 am Link to this comment

When enough people see the Jewish Crime Network are the real perpetrators of 9-
11, the anger and hatred of the Islamic world—falsely accused—will be
redirected to the bankster-media-war industry oligarchs.  Mass media
conglomerates assets should be seized under RICO statutes.

http://whodidit.org and http://rediscover911.com name the names of key
suspects in orchestrating 9-11. 

A mosque built on the site of the Twin Towers would be the best initial effort at
reparations to the Islamic culture.

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Arabian Sinbad's avatar

By Arabian Sinbad, August 18, 2010 at 7:51 am Link to this comment

walterbard, August 18 at 10:42 am Link to this comment

“The battle I choose is to lend my voice to is the support of the only true democracy in the Middle East, Israel.  While all the other Arab countries actively persecuted Jews and forced them out of their counties (~850,000) The Arabs in Israel are citizens, even though the majority are sympathetic with terrorists who launched thousands of rockets at what is their own country.  America can follow Israel’s example in allowing free expression.”
==============================================
Shit, a heap of shit to be piled over your petty-minded head. Israel a democracy?! Your evil Zionist Israel is a strange mixture of theocracy-fascism-apartheid-terrorist-illegitimate entity.

As to American democracy, it is the most falsely bragged about democracy the world has known. A democracy for the whites, a distorted democracy that supports Israeli apartheid, fascism and terrorism and it supports all types of dictatorships in Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt to mention only a few from the neighborhood I originally belonged.

You full of it…!

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, August 18, 2010 at 7:47 am Link to this comment

My phobia’s seen many and varied,.... now islamophobia seems only the tip of the iceberg, my more fullfilling religiousphobia covers a broader area, like all relgions. Just because I have taxaphobia, does not mean churches should not pay taxes.

How about Repulicanphobia, this is one I find forfront in my fear of things. 

Looking at all the phobias, the one I find most troubling is ignorantaphobia right next to stupidaphoboa which I keep in my closetphobia!

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By omop, August 18, 2010 at 7:45 am Link to this comment

From an accountant’s point of view sensitivity account for zilch. What matters are the numbers.

  Madeleine Allbright was okay with starving 500,000 Iraqi children as reported by CBS 60 minutes.

  To date around one million Iraqis have died as a result of Bush’s decision to change regimes in Baghdad.

  Deaths of innocent men, women and children in Afghanistan average about 16/20 a day (NATO has been there as of now for over 9 years)

  Is it possible that some humans are more sensitive than accountants?

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By balkas, August 18, 2010 at 7:44 am Link to this comment

Ulema,christian and mosheic priesthood had always been strongly asocialistic-inegalitarian [fascist].
They always urge or command their serfs to vote for asoialistic parties, kings, amirs, lords, etc.

If there is any threat from islam, it is to building a more or much more an egalitarian, enlightened, and antiwar society. tnx

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By Molly, August 18, 2010 at 7:26 am Link to this comment

Mcoyote: American Exceptionalism and The Other.

Very good and true.

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By thequestion, August 18, 2010 at 7:04 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Bob, should a monument to the achievements of the American military be erected at Wounded Knee?

How about a Christian church at some site where crusaders slaughtered Muslims?

Yes, the right and Fox are doing this to demonize Muslims.  But the fact that so many across the political spectrum are unhappy about the mosque shows that it’s not right wing bigotry that is at the core here.

We hold organizations morally culpable for organized slaughter done by their members.  We certainly don’t build monuments to that organization at the site of the slaughter.

Does this not extend to religions?  Does this not extend to Islam?

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By walterbard, August 18, 2010 at 6:42 am Link to this comment

to raylan

I said that I am not concerned with the opposition to the Mosque not that I would actively oppose it.
I have too much respect for the First Amendment . But as a private citizen I can choose my battles.
The battle I choose is to lend my voice to is the support of the only true democracy
in the Middle East, Israel.  While all the other Arab countries actively persecuted Jews
and forced them out of their counties (~850,000) The Arabs in Israel are citizens, even though
the majority are sympathetic with terrorists who launched thousands of rockets at what is
their own country.  America can follow Israel’s example in allowing free expression.

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By stephen geller, August 18, 2010 at 6:33 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

By now all the political grandstanding over this issue is as apparent as an
starlet with Botox on the brain.

The only issue, to my mind, is the taste of placing the mosque in its location—
- not its existence, not its message, not its purpose.

There is enormous work to be done by historians and serious investigative
journalists regarding 9/11, and it will be done. But until that event goes
beyond conjecture, science-fiction, and confusion, look at the aftermath and
be attentive to the ones who did suffer because of the event.

If there was no radical Moslem involvement; if there was no collusion between
forces of our government and other forces; if there was no Ifs at all—- then
there would be a simple answer.

But until there is, operate on the level of sympathy and compassion. A
compassionate and sympathetic response would be: “You may be right, but for
the moment there’s so much tension regarding this event, pick a different
location. There are more important battles than this.”

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Ouroborus's avatar

By Ouroborus, August 18, 2010 at 6:11 am Link to this comment

There is a radical Christianity as exemplified by
Timothy McVey (and many others); and there are
radical elements in Islam and Judaism.
They all result in intolerance and violence against
their perceived enemies.
But there has always been the moderate factions as
well; who have gotten along well with all others.
This is an historical fact born out by those that
know real history.
All of this intolerance, by the few, robs us (the
majority) of peace and well being.
The tyranny of intolerance will ultimately enslave us
all in totalitarianism and a fascist form of
democracy. We’re nearly there as I write this.
Simply speaking, the choice is yours; but one must
speak up to be heard over the din of mayhem.

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By FRTothus, August 18, 2010 at 6:05 am Link to this comment

fearnotruth, August 18 at 3:29 is absolutely spot-on. 
There are scores of similar incidents, and what is
more common than their modus operandi are the
commonality of the shameful “solutions” they call
for, all demanding that we relinquish our liberty and
money for greater “security”.  The US is the primary
guilty party in the Middle East. It bears sole
responsibility for all that has come since its false-
flag Pearl Harbor to re-start the (class) war OF
terror (for oil & gas and heroin and arms sales), and
if the people of the world act as we have repeatedly
done, and blame our people for our “leadership”, then
we should expect to be missile’d any day on prime-
time television, our “leaders” convicted in kangaroo
military tribunals and summarily hung, our police and
civil servants and courts dismissed.
Well said, fearnotruth. 

ofersince72, I think you have a point.  But war is
America’s only real business, isn’t it?  Look how
much we love to hate the Muslims, and all brown and
all poor people, in fact.  We are taught to hate. I
am still surprised with how tightly the frightened
and cowardly cling so vociferously to the “Arabs did
it” conspiracy theory. Such hateful passion does not
come from nowhere.  This is learned behaviour.
Americans are easily brought to a blind rage,
encouraged to vent their very real anger at being
thrown overboard by those they trusted, but
misdirected from those that have done it to them.
They are angry, blocked from meaningful dissent,
distracted, shocked and awed by their oppressors
sitting in offices far away, financed with their
taxes, hating their neighbor instead. We hate (and
even fear) each other (look at the hateful dialogue
going on with most internet comment) and so will
never come together (which is the only way to have
any impact) to trust each other enough for a union
(IWW) or a new political party.  We are a people
without community and without a sense of community. 
There is no honor in our leadership or our policies,
for there is no honor in business.

Putting “successful businessmen” and those seeking
riches in charge is always a bad idea.  They have all
the wrong traits.  They see no difference between
exploiting things and exploiting people.

Our empire is in its last gasps.  The rich are in a
terrible hurry to “secure” what they think will save
them, and will not go quietly into the night.  We are
our only hope.

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By doughboy, August 18, 2010 at 6:05 am Link to this comment

The wave of Islamophobia has not yet crested. It may subside after the
upcoming November elections. But, the underlying animosity towards Muslims
will not dissipate. Mr. Scheer’s reference to our military commitments to
Muslim nations—Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iraq, and Afghanistan—was meant to
bolster his argument for tolerance in the location of the cultural center two
blocks from “Ground Zero.”

America’s role in the Middle East has not been an honorable one. We have been
involved in overthrowing or attempting to overthrow governments from the
1950s—successful in Iran, but not in Syria. We encouraged an Arab “Cold War”
to further our economic interests as in Egyptian-Saudi Arabian contest in the
early 1960s. Our support for Israel vis a vis the Palestinians has alienated Arabs
and Muslims worldwide. We support governments, but do not win over the man
on the street. We occupy two Muslim countries. The renaming and repositioning
of our army in Iraq should not fool anyone as to who ultimately calls the shots.
Afghanistan is the “new” center for our “war on terrorism”—but even Petraeus
cannot define how one gains victory over a NOUN.

The Arabs and Muslims have a very good grasp of what America’s real
intentions are and how we really feel towards them. Bin Laden’s appeal struck a
chord with many who reject their leaders who are more concerned with their
economic ties to the US then improving the lot of their citizens, and resent
America’s attitude of superiority not due to some cultural factor, but because of
its military might.

Iran was our star on the Gulf. Days before it all unravelled, our president
praised the Shah and trumpeted our alliance. But, once the cracks could no
longer be covered, America found itself in conflict with Tehran. Amazingly, we
had the temerity of being puzzled why such a 180 degree turn. The hatred that
the conservatives have stoked over the issue of the cultural center will come
back to bite us on the a __ __. Just for once, let us not pretend that we do not
know why “They hate us.”

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By Mcoyote, August 18, 2010 at 5:51 am Link to this comment

American Exceptionalism and The Other.

There is a thread in American history that runs through Indian Removal, the Mexican-American War, the Spanish-American War, the Asian Rimland Wars, right on into the current massacres in Iraq and Afghanistan. These adventures constitute a “pattern of racism and imperialism that began with the first Indian war in Virginia in 1622,” writes historian James Loewen.

History shows clearly that whenever American elites want something another nation has—such as land or oil or other resources—they will simply justify taking it. The usual contrivance is the age-old theory that non-white peoples are unable to govern themselves (1200 AD mentality in this case), so we must heed our “divine mission” to liberate them from their own ignorance and corruption, bringing our gifts of freedom, democracy and Christianity—whether they want them or not.

The difficult part is getting the American public to go along with these adventures so a massive propaganda campaign must be launched and maintained. Sometimes as a justification the ruling elites employ appeals to national security. In the case of Iraq, we saw two sets of rationales: one official, the other unspoken. The official one, which has long since been discredited, was the threat of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction. The unofficial and unspoken ones are racism and religious chauvinism (“Nuke ‘em all”).

Now in Afghanistan the pretext is for national security (“they attacked us on 9-11”, being The Big Lie) and for humanitarian reasons (“oppression of women” by The Taliban being the Little Lie). It’s all to manage public opinion here in The Homeland and has nothing to do with reality. It is meant to hide the real agenda of the ruling elites which is plunder. Same old story.

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By Old Geezer Pilot, August 18, 2010 at 5:33 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Very good, Walterbard. So you are saying that the USA
should act like Saudi Arabia which is intolerant to all
non-muslims.

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RayLan's avatar

By RayLan, August 18, 2010 at 5:15 am Link to this comment

@Walterbard
At least you honestly have expressed your hatred of Islam - I am sure there are many Jews and Christians who harbor such historical hatred. Whether such hostile political situations exists in other countries has and let me repeat this - has absolutely nothing to do with Muslim Americans - it is a logical fallacy called the fallacy of composition.
Cars have wheels
Skateboards have wheels
Therefore cars are skateboards.

People in other countries who are intolerant are Muslim
Some American citizens are Muslim

Therefore some American citizens (Muslims) are intolerant

I’m actually giving the pseudo-reasoning too much credit - since it doesn’t even make that much sense.
It’s usually just naked unreasoning hatred.

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By walterbard, August 18, 2010 at 4:53 am Link to this comment

When Moslems allow churches and synagogues to be built somewhere in Mecca, when Jews are allowed to pray at the Temple Moumt, when the Moslem penalty for switching religion isn’t death, when the so-called moderate Moslems protest Hamas putting on a children’s program teaching children how to kill Jews, maybe I’ll be concerned about building a Mosque close to where
fanatical Moslems killed thousands.

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By walterbard, August 18, 2010 at 4:51 am Link to this comment

When Moslems allow churches and synagogues to be built somewhere in Mecca, when Jews are allowed to pray at the Temple Moumt, when the Moslem penalty for switching religion isn’t death, when the so-called moderate Moslems protest Hamas putting on a children’s program teaching children how to kill Jews, maybe I’ll be concerned about building a Mosque close to where fanatical Moslems killed thousands.

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By Ivan Hentschel, August 18, 2010 at 4:51 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Well, no s^$@, Dick Tracy! “Totally stupid” Repubs salivate at the mouth when eyeing the monetary gains to be had, from the uninformed, mis-educated, mis-led, myopic, xenophobic and racially-“faithfully” bigoted caucasian masses (shortly about to be an international monority…but no one is watching).

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By clipper, August 18, 2010 at 4:37 am Link to this comment

Obama may be president but the hate against Muslims go back to the first Bush Presidency, followed though to the present, just like it slowly did against the Jews in Germany. Except the Zionist are paring off with the GOP for the Fascist Empire they both seek.

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RayLan's avatar

By RayLan, August 18, 2010 at 4:34 am Link to this comment

I don’t know how much more clear it has to get - those opposed to the mosque’s building are and logically must be, opposed to the religion the mosque represents - that is Islam. This visceral stupid prejudice needs to be confronted and called for what it is - It is painfully obvious that if the building were a Christian church or Jewish synagogue - nothing would be said. How this political group can reason this warrants a doctoral thesis on the capacity of ideology to defeat critical thought.

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By drbhelthi, August 18, 2010 at 4:33 am Link to this comment

A few of my acquaintances, who are republicans, have broadcast for years, that “we need to kill them before they kill us.” More recently, it has become difficult to discern who “they” are, once “Homeland Security and FEMA” began to blow the trumpet.

I find the interactive pazazz between the two major parties to be briefly and superficially interesting.  Sadly, it appears to be distracting the world from the singular direction in which both parties are manipulating what´s left of the U.S.

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Mike789's avatar

By Mike789, August 18, 2010 at 4:29 am Link to this comment

Good old Newt would have us not only abandon or ideological principles, but play into the hand of the perpetrators of 9/11 by dividing us further. The crazies will point to this abrogation of our Constitution for political objectives as typical of American insincerity. When do we correctly identify this sort of baiting for what it is, moral depravity?

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By ofersince72, August 18, 2010 at 4:20 am Link to this comment

Let me be the one that tell you just how sick this

  M E D I A   D I V E R S I O N   C O L L U S I O N

by the Democrat and Republican Parties is.

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By ofersince72, August 18, 2010 at 4:12 am Link to this comment

Let me be the one who tell you all how much

  D E M O C R A T S   L O V E   M U S L I M S

They love them so much they are going to stay in Iraq.

they love them so much they are going to blow them up.

they love them so much they let them drownd in Pakistan

They love them so much they keep them in concentration
camps in Palistine

Report this

By markpkessinger, August 18, 2010 at 4:06 am Link to this comment

Although people seeking to exploit this controversy for political gain would have you believe that the proposed Islamic Cultural Center will tower triumphantly over Ground Zero, I’ve just posted to YouTube an annotated slide show of a walk around the block from 45 Park Place, the site of the proposed center. It will give viewers a sense of the reality of the location, and show just how out-of-the-way the site is relative to the World Trade Center. My hope is to inject a measure of rationality into a discussion that has generated far more heat than light. The link to the video is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6cpEAvvYB4 .

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