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A Chorus of Stones

A Chorus of Stones

Susan Griffin

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Formalizing Israel’s Land Grab

Posted on Aug 16, 2010
AP / Emilio Morenatti

A Palestinian boy rides his bicycle next to a section of Israel’s barrier.

By Chris Hedges

Editor’s Note: Chris Hedges’ next column will appear Sept. 6.

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Time is running out for Israel. And the Israeli government knows it. The Jewish Diaspora, especially the young, has a waning emotional and ideological investment in Israel. The demographic boom means that Palestinians in Israel and the occupied territories will soon outnumber Jews. And Israel’s increasing status as a pariah nation means that informal and eventually formal state sanctions against the country are probably inevitable.

Desperate Israeli politicians, watching opposition to their apartheid state mount, have proposed a perverted form of what they term “the one-state solution.” It is the latest tool to thwart a Palestinian state and allow Israel to retain its huge settlement complexes and land seizures in East Jerusalem and the West Bank. The idea of a single state was backed by Moshe Arens, a former defense minister and foreign minister from the Likud Party, in a column he wrote last month in the newspaper Haaretz asking “Is There Another Option?” Arens has been joined by several other Israeli politicians including Knesset Speaker Reuven Rivlin.

The Israeli vision, however, does not include a state with equal rights for Jewish and Palestinians citizens. The call for a single state appears to include pushing Gaza into the unwilling arms of Egypt and incorporating the West Bank and East Jerusalem into Israel. Palestinians within Israeli-controlled territory, however, will remain burdened with crippling travel, work and security restrictions already in place. Palestinians in the occupied territories, for example, cannot reclaim lost property or acquire Israeli citizenship, yet watch as Jews born outside of Israel and with no prior tie to the country become Israeli citizens and receive government-subsidized housing. Palestinians in the West Bank live in a series of roughly eight squalid, ringed ghettos and are governed by military courts. Jews living in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, like all full Israeli citizens, are subject to Israeli civilian law and constitutional protection. Palestinians cannot serve in the armed forces or the security services, while Jewish settlers are issued automatic weapons and protected by the Israel Defense Force.

If Israel sheds Gaza, which has 1.5 million Palestinians, the Jewish state will be left with 5.8 million Jews and 3.8 million Arabs. And, at least in the near future, Jews will remain the majority. This seems to be the main attraction of the plan.


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The landscape of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, known as “facts on the ground,” has altered dramatically since I first went to Jerusalem over two decades ago. Huge fortress-like apartment complexes ring East Jerusalem and dominate the hillsides in the West Bank. The settler population is now more than 462,000, with 271,400 living in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and 191,000 living in and around Jerusalem. The settler population has grown at the rate of 4.6 percent per year since 1990 while the Israeli society taken as a whole has grown at 1.5 percent.

The net effect of the Israeli seizure of land in East Jerusalem, which includes recent approval for an additional 9,000 housing units, and the West Bank is to promulgate a form of administrative ethnic cleansing. Palestinian families are being pushed off land they have owned for generations and evicted from their homes by Israeli authorities. Dozens of families, tossed out of dwellings they have occupied in East Jerusalem for decades, have been forced onto the streets. Groups such as Ateret Cohanim, an ultra-Orthodox Jewish private organization that collects funds from abroad, purchases Palestinian properties and pursues legal strategies to evict families that have long resided in East Jerusalem. Israel’s judicial system and police, in violation of international law, facilitate and enforce these evictions and land seizures.

Heavily armed settlers carry out frequent unprovoked attacks and ad hoc raids and house evictions to supplement the terror imposed by the police and military. They are the civilian arm of the occupation.

“This acquiescence in settler violence is particularly objectionable from the perspective of international humanitarian law because the settlers are already unlawfully present in occupied territory, making it perverse to victimize those who should be protected—the Palestinians—and offer protection to those who are lawbreakers—the settlers,” said Richard Falk when we spoke a few days ago. Falk is the U.N. special rapporteur who was denied entry into the occupied territories by the Israeli government.

Falk said that incorporating Palestinians in East Jerusalem and the West Bank into a single Israeli state would see Israel impose gradations of citizenship.

“If the Palestinians in pre-’67 Israel enjoy second-class citizenship, those in the West Bank and East Jerusalem will be given a third-class citizenship,” Falk said. “The real proposal, the envisioned outcome of this kind of proposal, is an extension of Israeli control over the occupied territory as a permanent reality. It is presently a de facto annexation. The creation of a single state would give the arrangement a more legalistic cover. It would seek to resolve the issue of occupied territory without the bother of international negotiations.”

“The effect is to fragment the Palestinian people in such defining ways as to make it almost impossible to envision the emergence of a viable Palestinian sovereign state,” said Falk. “The longer it continues, the more difficult it is to overcome, and the more serious are the abridgement of fundamental Palestinian rights.”

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By radson, August 26, 2010 at 5:00 pm Link to this comment


I understand your point of view ,which reflects the Israeli argument through religious beliefs ,something that is made more difficult to interpret due to a pseudo interpretation of the Levant and a certain invention
of words to underline the Jewish uniqueness as compared to the other Peoples due in large part to the atrocities that were committed during WWII.Yet lest we forget the mass murder of many Nationalities did
occur during the same period of time and for what ever reason the atrocities are not considered on par with the Jewish tragedy, yet the language remains Jewish specific.You say that the dispossession of the
Palestinians is of lesser importance as compared to the religious beliefs to implement the Jewish State ,perhaps ;from what I,have read dispossession played a central part with religion used as a form of justification
of the deeds ,hence the keeping of the ‘keys ’ by many Palestinians.Interestingly you mention the Kurds as a Race and you add that it would be very difficult for them to have a homeland of their own ,should I sense
a contradiction in that statement ;if one was to consider the trials and tribulations witnessed with the creation of the State of Israel and are you touching upon the existence in itself with perhaps Madagascar as a hidden thought .Do the Israeli people deserve a homeland ,is the question and the answer is yes ,do the Palestinians deserve a homeland and the answer is yes .That’s the easy part ,the hard part is getting both sides to live as neighbors in peace ,which leads to the questionable American influence and Whitehall’s for that matter in the energy rich region ,not to forget the chaotic aspect of American industry and their influence in the High Tech sector which has been implemented since WWII. Having said the above ,the only chance at peace and or a reasonable resolution is through a comprehensive business deal with the
Iranian leadership ,gunboat diplomacy has run its course .


Report this

By radson, August 26, 2010 at 3:47 pm Link to this comment

Ofersince 72

Tnx for your inquisitiveness ,and you do realize that the subject matter is rather complicated ,I say this with regards to the entire Middle Eastern region .If it can be described briefly then the phrase
‘Hexen Kessel ’ comes to mind and it is rather fitting if the MIC is placed into context ,with chaos as the underlying raison d’etre.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 26, 2010 at 11:08 am Link to this comment

I believe SNEAKER’S response to an Amy Zimmet article
on The Social Contract that was displayed on CommonDreams
is worth repeating again…..

What social contract?

Show me this social contract! !

Ha, ha,  you got fooled again. You is fool. Rich boss to
smart for you. Ha, now you must die or kill for richboss.
But quit your whinning or get no more rice rations.
Now go kill your neighbor.  Now chop off left leg and
hop on right leg. Ha, ha, ha, rich boss own you now.

Report this

By ofersince72, August 26, 2010 at 9:24 am Link to this comment

I will make my point just one more time on this
subject. first
  Thankyou rossross and radson on the distinction between
  race and religion. I had thought that ross was a jew,
  I was wrong,  he never has been a jew.

  On the military and Middle East

It is not OUR military
It is not Israel’s military

We just pay for this military
Capitol Hill just appropiates $$$$ for this military
And,  The president, gets a title that really doesn’t
    belong to him.

The military belongs to the ones that are profiting
from the military adventures and military industrialization.  They also run the United States
government, and Israeli policy, many of them are in
government,  much more many, we don’t even know their
And it is going to be Perpetual War, and a
B A L L   O F   C O N F U S I O N
until the proper owners get control of this! ! ! ! ! ! !

Report this

By rosross, August 24, 2010 at 6:18 pm Link to this comment


Yes, you are right about Israeli nationality being recent but then that applies to most colonising nations.

Israel’s problem is not that it is a coloniser and that it forcibly dispossessed the Palestinians to create its State, or nation, as did the US for that matter and many others, but the fact that it refuses to accept the reality of what it is and instead wallows in the lie that the Jewish religion has ‘rights’ to land in this are.

Religions don’t have land rights; they don’t have homelands and even if they did it doesn’t give them the ‘right’ to dispossess to correct some supposed wrong thousands of years old.

The Kurds in fact, as a race and one could argue nationality, have more ‘right’ than anyone to a homeland but they won’t get it because the political barriers and the suffering and dispossession involved to recreate it would be too great.

So even if one could argue ‘right’ for Jews, which one cannot, it would still not justify the creation of Israel in any way.

One of the problems I think with Israelis and their supporters is they know Israel is not legitimate. The latest cries or screams of being de-legitimised merely reflect the unconscious knowing that Israel is not letitimate. It certainly does not have legitimate borders. It was founded illegally and immorally and could only ever argue (but might lose) that its legitimate borders are the UN mandate but in reality it is no more legitimate than any coloniser was or is until justice is given to the indigenous people.

Israelis are hoist on their own petard because they choose to believe the fanciful lie that they are the ‘indigenous’ people and that religions have rights to dispossess at will.

I don’t believe Israelis are capable of the rational thought required to get around that which is why the situation will continue until resolution is forced: one state with equal rights for all, called Palestine.

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By radson, August 24, 2010 at 6:03 pm Link to this comment


Tnx for the reply and you are right .Race is not the proper term to use in the context of my post ,but I may add that Nationalism is a rather recent concept for the Israeli citizens.

Report this

By rosross, August 24, 2010 at 4:02 pm Link to this comment

Unfortunately for Jews, the religion is now irrevocably linked with the colonising state of Israel and the Zionist regime.
Israel is not just bad for Palestinians it is bad for Israelis and bad for Jews. And the latter are the only ones who can turn it around. Stop the money. Israelis are in such a dysfunctional state they cannot help themselves but there are Jews around the world who could.

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By rosross, August 24, 2010 at 3:18 pm Link to this comment

Good post but one error. You repeat an untruth: there is no Jewish race, there never was and never will be.
The only ‘racial’ aspect of Judaism was the original Hebrew tribe ... not race, but tribe… in whom the religion is sourced. They left Mesopotamia, modern day Iraq and settled in Egypt and then Canaan and converted many others to the religion there and on their travels around the world.
If there were no Jewish religion there would be no Jews, ergo: no race, no nation just a religion.
If there were a race then my ancestors, who practised the Jewish religion for hundreds of years, would have made me Jewish. But, my great-grandfather married out and dropped out and Judaism ended with him… for his line at least. His brothers and sisters who continued to practice the religion passed it down to their descendants. They remain Jewish; I and my family do not.
The ‘concept’ of a Jewish race is not actually part of the Jewish religion either which is why many fundamentalist Jews still oppose the foundation of Israel.
The concept of race and nation is a Zionist invention to try to create some ‘rights’ to Palestine.
All those Jews who claim they do not practice the religion but are secular Jews are no more Jewish than a lapsed Catholic is Catholic.
The claim to ‘Jewishness’ is sourced in the religious belief in ‘specialness’... read superiority… and the cultural belief in victimhood… an addiction which is difficult to release.
Jews today are sourced in countless races and nations drawn throughout the world and throughout history… as are christians. Like all religions they took converts, and still do, so there would be no racial purity even if it had existed… which it did not.
The reality is that if all religions were banned tomorrow (hypothetical I know) there would be no Jews, or Christians, or Moslems, or Hindus, or Jains, or Buddhists…. or whatever.
So Judaism, like all religions confers nothing more on followers other than a religious preference. It does not confer race or nationality.
There is however, at this point in time an Israeli nationality although there is not an Israeli race in the same way there is not an American, French, English etc. race.
Clarifying the facts is one thing which is important to do with this issue and difficult given the propaganda and outright lies which have been told for so long.

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By radson, August 24, 2010 at 11:46 am Link to this comment

Anti-semitism is Jewish specific ,for everyone else its called discrimination ;the Holocaust is Jewish specific and for the rest its called a Genocide .The entire concept is biased in itself ,somewhat like the
Hebrew religion and the ‘promised land and the chosen one’s’ and the hell with the rest mentality.This is not necessarily a unique concept it is taught in school as a form of -the west is the best and forget the rest-
The continuation of the Jewish Blood line is based on What ;is it religion ;is based on monetary considerations or is it based on maintaining the Jewish Status Quo, the so called distinctiveness of the Jewish
race.Why is it that the Jews are creating a dead end street for themselves and at the same time trying to morally justify their insolence ;Mark Regev is very able in his propagandist function but the potato is becoming ‘to hot to handle’ and convincing the masses is going to require a certain exceptional skill.The Goldstone Report in itself is not the underlying problem ,it is the fragmentation of Jewish unity especially among the Diaspora Jews that is causing the profound friction and reshaping the mold -or the plan - if you wish.The One State Solution that the Netanyahu administration is tinkering with at the moment is only
an exercise in Guile with annexation as the goal ,perhaps their planning a plebiscite in the future to complement their strategy with regards to the land that they have colonized.Will Gaza become part of Egypt
and if so ,how will that rectify the Security conundrum ,the other option is to link a corridor between the West Bank and Gaza somewhat like the corridor in Polska with the Baltic Sea and the problem that arose
with Danzig and Hitler’s bargaining chip on the eve of WWII .In order for the Palestinian State to survive their going to have to make arrangements with their immediate neighbors which includes Jordan ,Syria and Lebanon,countries which Israel exudes a continuous amount of pressure ,perhaps to keep the aforementioned option closed ,since annexation is the goal.This is not about Peace its about Piece ,a Piece of land

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By Lenny10M, August 24, 2010 at 3:58 am Link to this comment

Sodium-Na, you seem to be bent on a single agenda here which has nothing to
do with the topic whatsoever in an attempt to divert attention away from the
glaring racism and prevalent terrorism of the apartheid state of israel. The John
Birch Society by comparison is a small organization dedicated to anglo-saxon
pursuits and ideals, hardly racist in a country filled with special interest groups
that cater to various demographics and mind-sets and even groups such as the
Jewish defense league who do far worse than simply meet for discussions. By
your thinking you are saying that if no white anglo-saxons appear in the black
panthers party or in the jewish defense league, that means that these are racist groups against all white anglo-
saxons. If one doesn’t like what they represent, one is free to not join. And an
intellectual society such as the John Birch Society can hardly be compared to
jewish religious and political organizations, who openly and without conscience
sponsor institutionalized racism against Palestinians and other minorities and
refuse them even basic human rights. As a man of with a muslim mother and
jewish father,  I know all too well where the racism lies and it’s not in America
where minorities experience more advantages and freedoms than often even in
their own countries. Fortunately for you anglo-saxons have created a country
where even the ignorant may thrive. I suggest you try another strategy and not
such obvious attempts to detract readers away from the topic of discussion
which was not the John Birch Society or some Christian sect but the political, human and
racial crimes of Israel.

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By truedigger3, August 21, 2010 at 4:20 pm Link to this comment


When you said clubs that ACCEPT EVERYONE EXCEPT Jews and blacks, these clubs are public clubs.
The above situation doesn’t exist because it is forebidden by law to deny admission to public clubs to anybody on basis of race, religion etc etc.
The examples you sited are not clubs, public or otherwise, they are organizrions for specific purpose.
1) Why Jews will be desiring joining a Christian organization dedicated for Christians and Christianity. That is C street.
2) Why Jews will be desiring joining a racist organization that accept only white anglo saxons protestants and reject EVERONE else. Not only it rejects jews, but also it rejects Catholics, Italians, Polish, Russians, Arabs, Indians ....etc…. etc. That is John Birch Society.
We are not playing semantics here, and net picking about crossing the Ts and dotting the Is. You know exactly what you wanted to say and it turned out to be not true, and that doesn’t mean that is the end of the world. It was an error and we all make mistakes.

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By Sodium-Na, August 21, 2010 at 1:24 pm Link to this comment

For truedigger3,

You wrote the following comment addressed to me:


The two examples you mentioned,are not public clubs,but private exclusive organizations.



Where in the world I described the two organizations I mentioned were “PUBLIC” Clubs? Show me where I used the word,“PUBLIC” in describing the two organizations.

For your convenience,I will repeat what I wrote in my post of August 20,addressed to rosross:

“Would you believe me if I tell you that even today,in the Twenty First century,there are all White Clubs which do not and will not accept Jews and other minorities to join their exclusive clubs.”

Again,I ask you to show me where the word “PUBLIC” appeared with the word “CLUBS”. It does not exist.Therefore,your response to me is incorrect due to the fact that you have invoked in it a meaning I did not say.

Furthermore,if you read the paragraph carefully,you may be able to discover that I did describe the all White Clubs,(meaning C Street Center and John Birch Society and their ilk),as “EXCLUSIVE”. That will compel me to thank for UN-INTENTIONALLY providing support for my comment at the end of my paragraph quoted above!! Read carefully this time my post and your response. Thank you.

To help you out a little bit further,the following comments about C Street Center and John Birch Society will be in order:

On the surface,C Street Center claims to be for Christian support group. But based upon what I read about it,even the comments made by the President of “The Followship” from which the C Street Center was spinned off was indicative,at least to me,that it is secretive and cloaked in the banners of Christianity for a covert agenda,not even known to Mr.Richard Carver,the President of “The Fellowship” organization. In his own admission to the Columbus Dispatch newspaper,he said that he had no idea what C Street Center’s policy was. That took place just 4-5 months ago,as I could remember.

Since he has no idea what C Street Center’s policy is,most likely,he has no idea what they are doing either. And by your own admission it is an “EXCLUSIVE” organization. And I add all members are White and by deceptive commission it makes no sense for Jews to apply for membership in a Christian Support Group. Of course,it does not make sense for Jews to apply for membership! Are you kidding? No Jew in his right mind would apply for membership. That is the whole point: CLOAKING.

As to John Birch Society,I lived in Texas for six years. I did all my gradute works at one of its major universities. While there,I used to occasionally recieve from the Society,by surface mail,some prited propaganda materials. How they got my address was and still is unknown to me till this very moment. Without going into the details,yes,indeed,the Society is racist
with distinction,with 70,000 members,all white. And we are in the Twenty First century.

Jews,African American,socialists,communists and Cathics need not apply. And as you described it in your own word,it is “EXCLUSIVE”. And I add it is EXCLUSIVE for White people only,and most likely the majority of whom are Anglo-Saxson.

Have a nice day or evening,depending in which time zone you live. And cheers.

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By ofersince72, August 21, 2010 at 9:31 am Link to this comment

Yep, Yep, Yep…...........all sorts of solutions…

However,  no matter how criminal Israel acts, no matter
      what injustice they perform…

None of this will be addressed until the citizens of the
U.S. get control of their own government. We can talk
about Israel and Palistine until we are blue in the face
for another forty years….It is a moot point until
the U.S.  CIA, AND MIC are contained…....
all other conversation about solutions becomes meaningless

Report this

By truedigger3, August 21, 2010 at 9:22 am Link to this comment


1) The C street center is a Christian fellowship organization which is a Christian support group. Why Jews will be willing to join a Chritian support groupn?!! Is that make sense??!
2) The John Birch Society is openly racist SOCIETY AND NOT A PUBLIC CLUB, which rejects EVERYONE except white anglo saxon Protestants “WASPS”.
When you said till this day there are CLUBS that do not accept Jews, everyone conclude that these clubs accept everyone except Jews, which is not true, because this is illegal in the United States and the European Union.
The two examples you mentioned, are not public clubs, but private exclusive organizations.

Report this

By christian96, August 21, 2010 at 7:16 am Link to this comment

Instead of the State of Isreal it needs to become
the Nation of Israel. Then, a Palestinian State
could be formed within the nation of Israel.  The
major advantage for the Palestinians will be an
improvement in support from the Israeli’s.  Since
their state is within the nation of Israel the nation of Israel will be responsible for improving
their lives; better roads, water, sewer, job
opportunities, etc.  Child Development courses need
to be required part of the public school curriculum.  It would also be an advantage to require them to take a Family Relations course.
Both courses need to strongly reflect the consequences of talking about hate and revenge
during family discourses during the day.  If true
and lasting peace is ever to come to Israel it will
be through the children learning to love, forgive,
and serve others.  That can only be achieved through the family.

Report this

By Sodium-Na, August 21, 2010 at 12:41 am Link to this comment

Re: truedigger3,August 20 at 7:58 pm.



Can you name one,only one,of these clubs?



Perhaps,I should have used the words “Society” or “Organization” instaed of the word “Clubs”.

Yes,I can name two off-the-cuff,at the moment:

(1) The John Birch Society which was founded in the early part of 1950s of the last century. We are in 2010 of the Twenty First century. Yet,the Society is still oparating in Texas.

To my knowledge,no Jews and African Americans are members in the Society since it was founded in the early 1950s.

(2) C Street Center is a spin-off of an organizatio called “The Fellowship”,a Christian organization as it claims.

During the Great Depressin,President FDR established the New Deal program,designed mainly to help the middle class,the poor and the underdogs.

On the other hand,“The Fellowship” was founded, somewhere,in the middle of the 1930s,as an opposition to the New Deal programs. Figure that one out: from a prayer group to a political group,if you can.

The C Street Center runs its policy/deeds more covertly-under the clad of Christianity-than “The Fellowship”. How can an American citizen of the Jewish be a member of such a secretive Christian center?

And hear this: Some members of “The Fellowship” live in a place called “The Family”,in Washington DC. A legal case was brought against Rachel Maddow,the anchor of The Rachel Maddow Show of MSNBC cable TV. The legal case was brought up because Rachel Maddow questioned what was going on in the place called “The Family” in Washington DC.

Here we are:

The Fellowship——-> C Stret Center——-> The Family. You figure!!

Not a single person of the Jewish faith or African American belongs to these organizations clad in Christianity and prayer-select group.


How about conducting your own research on the Society and oganizations mentioned in the foregoing to find out what has been going on inside these organizations for your own self-atisfaction? You need not take my word for what I have outlined about them in this post.

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By rosross, August 20, 2010 at 7:08 pm Link to this comment


The separation is self-inflicted. Jews have not been rejected by the White anglo saxon majority where those majorities exist. Jews have risen to become Prime Minister of England and held powerful posts in English society; ditto for Australia where I live and ditto for the United States.

Where, pray, is the rejection? And no, I don’t believe that Jews are still excluced from clubs. For one thing, in Australia and Britain it is illegal to exclude anyone regardless of religion, gender or race and I suspect it is the same in the US. However, your states which operate like small countries may allow such discrimination but I would be surprised. You need evidence for your claim.

Your explanation is based on an erroneous claim: that the group is set apart because it is rejected. Read about Jewish relion and spend some time in Jewish culture you will quickly realise your error.

In short, Jews do not excel any more than anyone else or, they would be excelling everywhere and they are not. And they would have excelled throughout history which they did not.

Jewish influence or ‘achievement’ is more obvious in the United States ... and I do not know why…. but is not reflected in other countries where Jews are found. If there were any credence to the Jewish myth of ‘cleverness’ then of course it would be.

And I close with my original point. If there were any shred of reality to the Jewish claims of exceptionality then Israel would not be one of the most debased, corrupt, inefficient and undemocratic nations in the world. It would not be a rogue state; a pariah nation or a country which in many respects is more Third World than First .... but it is and therein lies the real truth of such myths.

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By rosross, August 20, 2010 at 7:07 pm Link to this comment


What you say about Jews, in the main, applies to any group in the same situation with the same ‘results’ of excellence. From what I have read Asian immigrants have now taken the place of other minority groups in the US, for all the reasons you cite.

And if Jews usually ‘excel’ or ‘excelled’ why were and are the majority of them poor? I think if you looked at any minority group at any point in history you would find the same percentage ‘excels.’ As you yourself say, there is nothing exceptional about Jews.

Thankyou for explaining your perspective on humanity. At core I suspect we agree.

However, there is no evidence that any group of people have appeared anywhere who were any smarter than anyone else. More powerful yes; more able to change and innovate but smarter, no.

The circumstances of the Jewish group, as you put it, were and are no different to the circumstances of any other group throughout history whether set apart by religion or race.

Let’s not forget, particularly in the US, where Jewish interests do control and often manipulate media, publishing and information that there is such a thing as propaganda.

It is Jewish mythology and propaganda, sadly sourced in the religious belief of superiority, that Jews have out-performed. Remember, statistics, damned lies and statistics.

Why should the question arise why ‘some of them’ excel? Any more than it should arise about anyone or any group?

The only question is whether or not the ‘excelling’ is out of the ordinary. In truth it is not and it is also impossible to prove.

The difficulty with Jewishness is that it exists because of the religion but people have continued to call themselves Jewish when in fact they neither practice the religion, nor are really Jewish (born of a Jewish mother) and may have only a great-grandparent who was Jewish.

So the whole Jewish issue is skewed. More to the point, because Jewish researchers see themselves as a race, which they are not; or a nation, which they are not they approach research from a distorted perspective.

In other words, how many studies have done on Catholics or Protestants or Hindus for that matter to ascertain their percentage of ‘excellence’? None.

And in your reasoning you talk about a minority being rejected by the majority when the reality is that the sole reason the minority exists is because THEY HAVE REJECTED the majority. This applied and applies to various groups whether religious or race.

Jewish teaching (like the Jains and orthodox Hindusim) demands separation to maintain the ‘purity’ and superiority of the group. As I argued before, this can create resentment or hatred in the majority group. But the choice to remain ‘other’ was made by the minority. If it were not then my ancestors would not have been able to drop the whole thing and assimilate completely into the majority. Nor would more sensible Jews have been able to practice their religion without issue in numerous countries as they have done through history and still do today.

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By truedigger3, August 20, 2010 at 3:58 pm Link to this comment

Sodium-Na wrote:
“in the Twenty First Century,there are all White Clubs which do not and will not accept Jews and other minorities to join their exclusive clubs??


Can you name one, only one, of these clubs?

Report this

By Sodium-Na, August 20, 2010 at 12:21 pm Link to this comment

Re:rosross,August 19 at 8:48 pm.



You repeat a Jewish fantasy…that they usually excel and they have turned out most of the world’s great minds.



It is true that I have said that they usually excel in what they do,but I have never said that “they have turned out the world’s greatest minds”. Please read again my post of August 19 at 10:45 am. 

In my post of August 19 at 10:45 am,there is one single “operative word” in it,related to excellence. The “operative word” is “dedicate”. And I used it as the “operative word” before I used the word “excel”. In other words,without “dedication” no “excellence” would have been achieved by anyone in the entire history of the humankind. There are social reasons for that I will explore some of them later on in this post.

Before I provide you with the reason/reasons as to why they excel,I feel that I must provide you with my personal belief about all human beings who exist on Planet Earth:

* I do NOT believe,for a one single moment,that there is one group of people who is,as a group, more intelligent than all other groups of people of the humanity. Not at all. No way. Rubbish.

* I do believe,however,that if one group of people appear,or in actuality is smarter than the others,it is because the circumstances of the former group is different from the latter group and have nothing to do with genes or God or any religious interpretations.

* Generally speaking,and with the exception of those individuals who were born mentally retarded,all others human beings were/are created as equals in every sense of the word.

After you have raised your contention as you have expressed it in the quoted comments of yours post referred to above,I realized that I should have said that SOME OF THEM,like any other groups,excelled in their hobbies,trades or professions of their choice.

The question may arise why even the"SOME OF THEM” excelled/excel??

To make a long historical story short,SOME OF THEM had/have excelled because of three inter-related reasons,meaning that one reason leads to a second reason and the second reason leads to a third one,precisely like a consecutive chemical reaction,except that we are not dealing with a chemical reaction in a chemistry laboratory,but we are dealing with a social order or disorder,I must say,in complex human societies. The three interrelated reasons are:

REASON ONE: One group of people,usually a visible minority,is rejected by the majority of the social order or disorder of the society. Sadly,the Jews have been rejected by the White Anglo-Saxon majorities as equals human beings in the Anglo-Saxon world. Would you believe me,if I tell you that even today,in the Twenty First Century,there are all White Clubs which do not and will not accept Jews and other minorities to join their exclusive clubs?? I,in turn,ask: WHY?

REASON TWO: The rejection by the majority compels the rejected minority to stick together in something like a ghetto,full of miserable inhabitants who appear to the people outside the ghetto as a clannish group,living by itself for itself. Sad!

REASON THREE: Because of the rejection and living in a ghetto like existence,some individuals of the rejected minority may decide to pursue a hobby or a trade or a profession that requires a complete and total DEDICATION which helps eventually those individuals of the rejected minority to excel in the hobby,trade or profession of their choice.

The rejecting majority,in any human society,is the real cause of excellence achieved by not only some of the individual Jews as a rejected minority,but by all other individuals in other rejected minorities,who have the capacity for total and complete DEDICATION for the hobby,trade or profession of their own choice. This has nothing to do God or genes. Period.

Of course,the intent of the rejecting majority produced the opposite result of what it had in mind. Again,it is sad!

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, August 20, 2010 at 7:44 am Link to this comment

Declassified: Massive Israeli Manipulation of US Media Exposed

By Russia Today

Files declassified in America have revealed covert public relations and lobbying activities of Israel in the U.S. The National Archive made the documents public following a Senate investigation. They suggest Israel has been trying to shape media coverage of issues it regards as important. You can download the files from the web-site of the Institute for Research on Middle Eastern policy. And we can cross to Washington now and talk to Grant F. Smith who is a director at that Institute.”

Posted August 20, 2010


Click on link for details:

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By rosross, August 19, 2010 at 8:53 pm Link to this comment

You misunderstand me. You are talking about the American version of responsibility which is in essence an 18th and 19th century belief that poverty is self inflicted. This astonishing and backward belief is common in the US and virtually non-existent in the rest of the developed world. It is, to say the least, not only unkind, but odd and completely counter to the understandings and discoveries which were made about poverty in England in the 18th and 19th century. Why America of all nations has failed to absorb this understanding is something perhaps only Americans understand.
I don’t mean that at all. I come from a country with one of the best social welfare safety nets in the world and by comparison the citizens of the supposedly richest and most powerful nation on earth are poorly served.
In a civilized world the community at large has a responsibility to provide a reasonable standard of living to all citizens, regardless of their circumstance.
What I meant by personal responsibility is moving out of a ‘blame’ culture where things are always someone or something else’s fault; parents, government, neighbours, friends, moslems, jews, christians, foreigners etc. and where we realise and accept that what we experience in life is ‘created’ by what we believe.
A civilized society will always have to support the very old, very young, mentally and physically and emotionally damaged and ensure that all citizens have access to adequate education; health care; accommodation; clean water and food.
But, in the new age, citizens in such civilized society will look first at what they are doing and thinking which contributes to what they experience in life.

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By ofersince72, August 19, 2010 at 8:31 pm Link to this comment

A community center In New York City

  Land Grab in the Middle East (but not American land

  Sara Palin’s breast size , and her daughters

  Just keep the subject away from the reality that
  the U.S. is no longer a free republic but a totally
  controlled dictartorship of ITERNATIONAL INVESTORS

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By ofersince72, August 19, 2010 at 8:25 pm Link to this comment


It is about keeping the subject about Israel and

away from the American Issues that you speak of.

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By truedigger3, August 19, 2010 at 8:10 pm Link to this comment

rosross wrote:
“we are already moving into an era of self responsibility where we are called to take responsibility for what we do and for what happens to us. This is part of a spiritual movement, unconscious in many but still very real, which recognises that we do impact upon our world, both inner and outer, and that we do ‘create’ our reality.”


I disagree with you on this one. In my humble opinion, “self responsibility” is nothing but a ploy by the ruling elite to dismantle the social safety net and channel the money saved up to themselves.
This is a cruel deed, especially, in the current hard times, and the elite needed a “philosophy” and justification for it, so this continuous harping about “self responsibility” which in actuality is a euphemism for: no social safety net and scram and fend for yourselves.
Yes, of course, we are responsible for our lives and our lot in life is largely a reflection of us, however, currently, the common people are subjected to continuous changes and tricks beyond their abilities in this environment to cope.
Many people are out of work for more than two years and, currently, there are no jobs for those people and the future looks dimmer as more factories relocate overseas for cheap labor. Many of those unemployed are in need of medical care but they don’t have insurance etc etc. Do you get the picture.
It is expected that next year, several millions more will require food stamps, but the Congress few days ago, cut food stamps budget by 24 billion dollars!.
And after Wall St. stole big chunk of of people retirement money, they are talking about cutting Social Security and Medicare!!.
Are we going back to Victorian England and the times of Charles Dickens?.!

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By rosross, August 19, 2010 at 6:40 pm Link to this comment

Yes, the same thing happened with South Africa… the best and brightest left and are still leaving.
The world has changed. Apart from the happy clappers, the religious fanatics of all religions, no-one cares about religion in the way that they did, particularly not the young.
And the world in general and even young Jews are bored with the holocaust. Sadly the Israelis have ‘milked’ the holocaust for all it was worth and it has no credibility left. And it was 60 years ago. Time moves on. Young people today have more important things to think about.
Everyone knows that nothing was learned in the holocaust because there have been so many since and those who should have learned the most, the Jews, have learned absolutely nothing and have instead created a State which echoes some of the worst aspects of Nazism. Such tragic irony.
So if the world is tired of Israel and Jewish moaning and groaning about anti-semitism; and most young Jews are tired of Israel and Jewish moaning and groaning; there really is little future left for Israel unless it changes quickly and dramatically and sadly I don’t think it is capable of any change at all.
I think the other aspect overlooked by the ‘victim’ mentality is that while we have come through an era of ‘blame’ something or someone, particularly in the US where litigation is a way of life, we are already moving into an era of self responsibility where we are called to take responsibility for what we do and for what happens to us. This is part of a spiritual movement, unconscious in many but still very real, which recognises that we do impact upon our world, both inner and outer, and that we do ‘create’ our reality.
There are no victims in such a world and there is no-one to blame. Your thoughts, beliefs and actions and attitudes create what you experience.
Which means, sadly, that Israel is really doomed to fail because it must. Because that is what the religion teaches. How can Jews be victims if they succeed? We are what we think and what we think creates what we are and what we experience.

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By Shingo, August 19, 2010 at 5:25 pm Link to this comment

By rosross, August 19 at 9:03 pm Link to this comment

“Anyone who spends time in Israel quickly realises that whatever the so-called whiz-bang developments it has come up with the country is very Third World in many respects. All those ‘brilliant minds’ are not so brilliant it seems.”

According to test scores, less than half of students who graduate from high school in Israel would qualify pass in the US.

Add to that the fact that Israel is suffering from a brain drain, and Israel quaickly ceases to be such a clever country.

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By rosross, August 19, 2010 at 5:03 pm Link to this comment


And surely the myth of Jewish ‘cleverness’ has been put paid to once and for all by Israel. Given that half of the world’s Jews live in Israel, by the reckoning of the ‘great minds myth’ the country should be exceptional on all counts.
Anyone who spends time in Israel quickly realises that whatever the so-called whiz-bang developments it has come up with the country is very Third World in many respects. All those ‘brilliant minds’ are not so brilliant it seems.
Instead it has made the most stupid mistakes over more than half a century of any nation on earth. It has one of the most insular, ill-informed, racist cultures in the developed world and it could not survive without its annual injections of American money. There is no Israeli economy without American money.
They have made an industry of war; they have taken an opportunity to create a new State and turned it into a brutal, tyrannical occupier and a world pariah; they have created a society which has become so debased through occupation and colonisation it may never recover and they do not have the psychological capacity - intelligence - to see what they are and to do something about it.
The tragedy of the Jewish myth of superiority is that even looking at Israel, so many still hold to the fantasy as the reality draws them closer to destruction.
It is very sad. I think Israel was a disasterous and unjust idea but like all colonising nations it exists. I think it should continue to exist as a modern democracy but I suspect it is too late. Like apartheid South Africa, which is its closest model, it has created such hatred and suffering through its brutal actions that there is unlikely to be much of a future for the Jewish tribe of the Middle East when Palestine is free; just as there is no future for the white tribe of South Africa. In both instances their own stupidity, arrogance and ego have brought them down.
The trouble with dreams is that they are dreams; the trouble with fantasies is that they are fantasies; the trouble with myths is that they are myths and while they may all inspire us and help us to move forward and create, they need to be something upon which we draw not something which draws us.

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By rosross, August 19, 2010 at 4:48 pm Link to this comment

Of course Jews are not responsible for all the evil in the world. That is another ego position in which Jews wallow because beneath it is a belief they might have that much power.
However, in this day and age it is not Jews who are seen as being responsible for all the evil in the world but Moslems. So that particular hairshirt can be given up by Judaism.

You repeat a Jewish fantasy… that they usually excel and that they have turned out most of the world’s great minds. Absolute rot. Many Jews, in fact most Jews throughout history were as poor as anyone… my ancestors included. The problem for Jews, and this was a part of the problem in Germany even though it is politically incorrect to say it, is that like the Chinese in Asia (also hated for the same reason) there was a strong Jewish presence in the corridors of both economic and political power and when times were good it was resented and when times were tough it was hated. There is nothing wrong with seeking to gain wealth and power, except when the group which does it makes it clear by their actions that their main goal is to benefit their group and not the wider community.
Like all religious groups Jews put first focus on bettering their own. As do tribal groups. It is part and parcel of tribal culture still.
So, setting yourself apart is one thing; seeing yourself as superior is another; but gaining and holding wealth and power which is unrepresentative of the whole is where it gets dangerous.
And I would add, you also repeat the fantasy of the Jewish ‘cleverness’ The old, Nobel Prize List. What happens though when you look at the so-called Jewish winners and see that some are only a half or a quarter Jewish and more Catholic or Anglican than Jewish. If one assesses such achievements in terms of religion, throughout history, it is probably the Catholics who stand out. But it is all meaningless anyway and no more than an ego trip.

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By rosross, August 19, 2010 at 4:39 pm Link to this comment


Just to clarify, I did not ‘blame’ the group for setting itself apart. I merely made the point that when times are difficult they are likely to be a focus. I do not condone this; merely explain it. Of course the majority group is involved but, it tends not to get involved unless times are tough and then, any group which looks ‘different’ or which sets itself apart because it wants to be ‘different’ will be a target. Some societies are, I think, more aggressive and ‘fundamentalist’ in nature and more fearful and need or want someone to ‘blame’ more than others.
The point is simply that any group which encourages its exceptionality and which puts its focus on the wellbeing of its own members, above and beyond the wellbeging of the broader community, is likely, at some point, to be a target.
The Jews, like many minority groups, have pursued a policy of gaining wealth and power and using it to benefit their own. This breeds resentment.
For instance, take the over-representation of Jews in the film industry, or publishing for that matter, in the US. It is ludicrous to argue that this is because Jews are ‘better at such things’ because film and literature is rich and healthy (and compared to what Hollywood produces mostly better) in numerous countries with little or no Jewish involvement. The Chinese, Indians, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, Africans and British produce brilliant literature and excellent films without it being to all intents and purposes a Jewish dominated industry. It exists in the US because the Jewish community prefers to employ and support its own and it has more of an impact because the Jewish community in the US, while tiny, is bigger than in any other country.
This is not particular to Jews. The Parsees do it in India; the Chinese do it in Malaysia and Singapore and numerous religious and national groups do it because they believe security lies in the community… and in the case of quite a few, because they believe they are superior. Again, that is not a jewish disease. It is probably more entrenched in Jews because of their religion but it is not the first religion or group to teach superiority.
In fact, anthropological studies show indigenous people’s across the world common saw themselves as the ‘first people’; as being unique and by extension ‘better.’
Sadly, part of the ego-driven human nature.

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By Rgyle, August 19, 2010 at 9:25 am Link to this comment

Rosross, yes, it will sound like psycho babble to some, even most. But I see so
much tail-chasing, blaming others, digging up the past, projecting the future,
getting nowhere. I feel obliged to cut through and get to the heart of the matter
right here, right now, which is all there is. One can’t master the field on the level
of the field. One must transcend.

I also goofed up Byron Katie’s quote which should have been:

“I absolutely believe what I know I think.”

Now that’s insanity, and it’s happening right now in most humans! It’s why we are
the most dangerous species on the planet. But it can be reversed, one willing
human at a time, when the karmic shit hits the fan hard enough.

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By truedigger3, August 19, 2010 at 7:21 am Link to this comment

ITW, Sodium Na,

No one said that the Jews are “responsible for all the evil in that world?, but unfortunately for them, a tiny minority of them, are very prominent and influential in Wall Street and banking, two entities, that caused and causing a lot of havoc and suffering in the world today, add to that the blatant brazen cruel behaviour of Israel in the Middle East.

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By Sodium-Na, August 19, 2010 at 6:45 am Link to this comment

Re: Inherit The Wind,August 18 at 8:02 am.

ITW correctly and honestly has asked the following legitimate question:


There are over 6 billion people in the world. How can a tiny group of 14 million be responsible for all the evil in that world?


Answer: They are absolutely NOT responsible for the human,social and economic ills of the world.Period.

And I base my answer on solid facts on the ground by asking the following questions:

* What the Jews have to do with what is going on in China? Zero. The population of China is 1.5 billion people.

* What the Jews have to do with what is going on in India? Zero. The population of India is 1.2 billion people.

* What the Jews have to do with the largest countries in Latin America like Brazil,Argentina,Velenzuela etc? Zero. The total population of these Latin American countries is close to one billion.

* What the Jews have to do with what is going on in Russia and the surrounding countries around Russia? Zero. Approximate population half a billion people.

* What the Jews have to do with what is really going on in the Arab and Muslim world? Zero,except wars once in a while. The total population of the Arab and Muslim world is roughly 1.5 billion people.

The same question can be asked for most African countries and even some European countries. For the moment,let us forget the details about Europe,and concentrate only on the total population of the countries I have just finished listing in the foregoing:

The total population from the foregoing is,at least,4.7 billion people. That is equel to 89 percent of the world total population of 6.0 billion.

The influence of the Jews among the remaining 11 percent of the world population has nothing to do with the fact they are Jews by the accident of birth but has to do with their dedication in what they do. They usually excel in what they do. Examples: Albert Einstein,Noam Chomsky,
Norman Finkelstein,Rachelle Marshall,Cecil De mile,Paul Newman and so many more. I can even name some university professors who taught me and couple of superb heart specialists who contributed for the welfare of my ailing heart. The list goes on in other fields of the human endeavors,ranging from music and the arts to writing novels to journalism.

Therefore,blaming the Jews for the ills of the human societies is not only wrong but totally and completely and cowardly immoral.

After saying all of the above,I strongly stand firm against Zionism,because of what it has done to the Palestinian people.Period.

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By truedigger3, August 19, 2010 at 3:23 am Link to this comment


Although I agree with most of what you wrote, sometimes, the situation is not created by minorities only, but SOME of the majority don’t want to move on either, and add to that politicians who stoke the fire for political gains or are spineless cowards. The current mosque fiasco in lower Manhattan is a good example of that.
In some situations, it is a two way street and it is an example of homosapiens flaws and deficiencies that will require a lot of work and introspection,( which many people are not capable or desiring to do), to overcome .

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By ofersince72, August 18, 2010 at 5:17 pm Link to this comment

Preamble (revised)

  We the people of the United States, in order to form a
more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic
tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote
the general welfare, establish and preserve the integrity
of the laws of creation, provide for equality of education
, establish a just distribution of earnings, eliminate
the perpetual growth of accumulations of wealth, insure
freedom from taxes on earnings and savings, and secure the
blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity,
do ordain, establish, and amend this
Constitution for the United States of America.”

Hamaker 1982…...........$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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By rosross, August 18, 2010 at 5:15 pm Link to this comment

Inherit the Wind.

I respect your experience and it is your choice as to whether or not you continue to participate here.
But, if you do, I would only say that it is the human condition… at physiological and energy levels ... to ‘see what we expect to see.’
You may not have made much of your Judaism until you were older but from what you say it is clear that you absorbed the basic tenets and it was and is, those tenets, which would have made it very difficult, if not impossible for you to not ‘see’ anti-semitism, even in places where it did not exist.
Perhaps Australia is a different place but my great-grandfather who opted out never had swastikas on his door and his kids were never called names. I doubt anyone knew or cared although the family was well aware of our Jewish relations along with the Catholics, Baptists, Protestants and C of E. And his brothers and sisters who did not commit the crime of marrying out continued to live peaceful lives along with their children, grand-children etc. etc. And many of them, if not most, would still classify themselves as Jewish.
It’s hard when you inherit a mythology because as a child you absorb it like a sponge and it takes enormous insight and courage as an adult to question it.
I have Armenian friends who do paranoia pretty much as well as Jews do. And I have Irish friends who are also paranoid, but only about the English. Or talk to Moslems in India (somewhere else I have lived); minority tribes in Africa (where I have also lived); the Chinese in Malaysia…. any group which is a minority but which chooses to remain separate from the greater community. The Irish have never managed to get over their history either and like the Jews, are prone to recount countless miseries centuries old… things which should have been left behind.
And, like the Jews, the Irish, particularly in America funded and armed the conflict in northern ireland…. just as Jews have done in Palestine. And, like the Jews, Irish Americans were happy to fund the conflict but did not have the courage to live there.
So, there is nothing exceptional or unique about your experience. It is just another tragic expression of the damage which mythology does and the power of the ego when we do not choose to see the world as one; all people as equals and when we prefer to set ourselves apart as victims when we can choose to stand together as human beings… all trying to do our best in a complex and often cruel world.

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By rosross, August 18, 2010 at 5:04 pm Link to this comment

Thanks for fleshing out the theory. Many Jews were completely opposed to the formation of Israel when it was first mooted by the Zionists in the late 19th century. Most of them believed it was unnecessary (Jews had places to live); unjust because it involved dispossession and would be an absolute disaster; which it has been. Some branches of orthodox Judaism also believe that the creation of the State of Israel was not only wrong but that it flew in the face of God’s plans and would end in disaster.
But in simple terms Israel is a colonising nation like the US, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa for that matter. It exiss through dispossession and colonisation. The other nations have had to admit to the wrongs inherent in their foundation and make redress: Say sorry and pay compensation ... and create one State with equal rights for all. Israel will have to do the same. And it will not be a religious state because it cannot be a modern, democratic state and be religiously defined. And because Palestinians outnumber Israelis it will probably not be called Israel either because the majority will change the name to what it always was.
I do understand that for many Jews and Israelis this would be seen as a tragedy but it is a tragedy which their own greed and racism has brought about. If they had settled the original UN mandate and not had dreams of Eretz Israel and not hated the Palestinians so much, they might yet have their Jewish State and it might yet endure… no matter how anachronistic it might be in a modern world.

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By rosross, August 18, 2010 at 4:32 pm Link to this comment

Brilliant post. I could not agree more. I do think there is a growing spiritual awareness which can embrace such concepts but the more rigid one’s belief structure, whether it is the Jewish ‘soup’ or the fundamentalist christian, Islamic or Hindu ‘soup’ the harder it is to do.
I tend not to explore the ‘spiritual aspects’ on such forums but maybe I should. I figure trying to get people to see it in psychological terms is hard enough but you are right… the core problem underneath it all is just as you describe.

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By Rgyle, August 18, 2010 at 1:31 pm Link to this comment

To take what Rosross stated at 12:01 am today a bit further, there is no
minority quite like an individual. It’s even an odd word since the individual is
nothing if not divided – from everything and everyone else. But this is all an
illusion that leads to belief attachment, the mother of every other delusion. The
ego is the human condition today. I am separate, I am relatively small, limited,
and bound in a relative existence. So I want to become big, unlimited and free,
yet remain an egoic individual. Can’t happen, mutually exclusive. Ego is simply
a concept we choose to believe in, starting around 2-3 years old when our
language skills are such that mom, dad, sister, uncle, neighbor, television,
internet, society, etc. can condition my views and establish my utterly false
identity as “me.” Of course, believing I am limited, small, separate, etc. – and
wanting the opposite – perfectly sets up paranoia based on imagined threats to my identity and desires. I fear any who would take from or block me and my
desires. From this, my defense develops into an attack. In fact, defense IS the first violence.

I could go on, but more complete insights along these lines are available from
Eckhart Tolle, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Byron Katie and others. The good news is
that this can be reversed. Out on a limb? Retreat to the trunk. The religion of
“me” is the first religion and runs the deepest. And like all religion, it is false in
and of itself (though religion may point to truth). The point is, release the beliefs
from your psycho-emotional clutches. How? First by seeing that it is a concept
and a belief, no more real than attachment and identification with Santa Claus
or Snoopy. Once this is clearly seen, the rest almost takes care of itself. Then
you are one with all yet free. Then you behave spontaneously, innocently with virtue, wisdom, compassion. Until you’ve tried it, you will not clearly understand this. It may seem quite insane. Quite not!

Paranoia, defense, revenge, cruelty and the like is not a Jewish problem. It runs much deeper and more universally as humanity’s collective and individual ego problem, based on believing what we think we see. Byron Katie has described the dis-ease as “absolutely knowing what I believe I think.” But it’s not absolute. Rather, it’s merely thinking, concepts. Give up the attachment to belief (which when seen as false is not hard to do) and it’s over.

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By Sodium-Na, August 18, 2010 at 9:10 am Link to this comment

Re: rosross,August 17 at 4:55 am.


religions do not have homelands,never did and never will.”



I apologize for my tardiness in responding to your Re referred to above. I had to find an old file,in the basement of the house,on the point which you had/have successfully invoked in the discussion. I finally located the file. You may be interested in the following statements from the file:

(1) “Anti-Zionism and opposition to a Zionist state has been-and is-a legitimate position in Judaism.” By Rabbi Elmer Burger,Founder of American Council for Judaism and President of Jewish Alternative to Zionism.

(2) “Jews,according to reform,were then a “chosen people”,only in the sense of being messengers of God but in no way did they constitute a nation.” By Norton Mezvinsky,Professor of History at Central Connecticut State University,in New Britain,Connecticut.

It is clear to me that both statements made by Burger and Mezvinksy,respectively,gives more credence to your Re above,whose essence what was quoted and that is,and I quote it again for clarity: “religions do not have homelands,never did and never will.”

You may be interested also in the following book:

What Price Israel
Alfred Lilienthal.

However,my concern is the paranoid Jews who will remain paranoid because of the ugly history of anti-Semitism. Because I understand their paranoia,I want to see them having a secured place to live in,be it Israel or any other place under the sun,inspit of the fact that I know that you,Burger,Mezvinksy and Lilienthal correct in theory. Beside,the Israelis who were born in Israel after Israel was created in 1948 have as much right to live there as the Palestinians who lived their since time immemorial. Beside,Israel is already there and it is useless to deny that fact,regardless how correct the theory might have been.

Having said all that,I must also be honest with how I feel and think about Israel the way it exists and behaves right now:

I have never believed that Israel is a Jewish state,regardless how hard the current Israeli leaders try to make it so. It can be an Israel state. It can be a Zionist state. But it simply cannot be a Jewish state. That is so for the following reasons:

* The total Jewish population,world wide,is 14-15 million.

* The population of Israel is approximately 6.0 million.

* Out of the 6.0 million Israeli citizens,there are roughly one million Israeli Arabs,about one million Israeli Russians who really are not Jews but migrated to Israel to escape from the economic hardship in the Soviet Union and after the demise of the Soviet Union,they came from Russia. And then you have the smaller minorties like the Druzes. So,the net statistical result from all of this may net a Jewish population of only 4.0 million.

* Adhering firmly to the theory that “religions do not make homelands”,the question that can be raised strongly is this: how many out of the 4.0 million Jews in Israel are truly practicing Judaism on daily bases? Based on what is reported,it seems only the Orthodox Jews are truly practicing Judaism on daily bases. That means that even the figure 4.0 million disintegrates even further. How much further is the question.

Therefore,without applying the theory,it seems to me that calling Israel a Jewish state does not really hold water.

Thanks for raising the theory.

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By thebeerdoctor, August 18, 2010 at 8:17 am Link to this comment

Despite all of the religious mumbo-jumbo. all of this is about war and continuous conflict; that total failure of the human spirit that so many seem so intent to enable.
Will there ever come a day when humankind no longer uses religion for identity? Now that is something worth praying for.

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By Arraya, August 18, 2010 at 7:58 am Link to this comment

ITW says:

At least twice a century Jews face this rising hatred and tendency to blame all the ills of the world on us. It’s overdue, so it’s here now
The Rabbinical Council of Judea and Samaria issued a statement Thursday in which it said that the results of the incident in which Israel intercepted a flotilla trying to break the naval blockade of Gaza seem like the Biblical description of “the beginning of the Gog and Magog process where the world is against us, but which ends with the third and final redemption.”

Just do a quick google search for “world turned against Israel or Jews” and you will find numerous Rabbi’s claiming this.  That there is some sort of divine plan for people to turn against jews.

Now, I like to think of my opposition to Israel’s inhumane policies as healthy instincts rather than some latent disease of Jew hatred that has remained dormant all my life up until the last few years or prophecy.  Even though some would profess otherwise.  According to ITW, non-jews have such a disease and many religious jews look at it as some kind of prophecy. 

If you look at the link that I posted earlier on the tread, it was of a young girl setting up fake “anti-semetic” hate crimes against herself.  If you do a quick google search you will find it numerous other similar incidents and even one with a young jewish man posing as a muslim extremist and actually
making a website espousing radical muslim beliefs.  I can’t help but wonder what drives such behavior.

Undoubtedly, many would opine my bringing such things up as some sort of attack on all Jews and stoking the fires of “anti-semitism” as well as proof of the dormant non-jew mental disease that periodically flares up throughout history that ITW speaks of.

Now, is my vehement opposition of Israel’s policies and bringing some bizarre aberrant jewish behavior proof of the historical dormant non-jew, jew-hating disease flaring up or is it legitimate query into a cultural understanding.

If I had to blame all the worlds ills on anything I would probably pick our universal religion of money more than anything else.  But, truth be known,  I’m not really to keen on the Abrahamic religions either.  Observation has soured me on the God of Abraham.

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By Inherit The Wind, August 18, 2010 at 7:54 am Link to this comment

Tell me ITW, how many times have you been beaten up or picked on for being Jewish?  How many times have you been disadvantaged for being a Jew?

I suspect the answer is none to all of the above.


That’s where this started.  You know, Shingo, you are a hypocrite because you asked this question and then have jumped in to be one of the gang to disparage the answer.

Like the rest, you have taken a new tactic, from claiming that my exposure to threats and prejudice was all theoretical, to now claiming either I brought it about or am exaggerating it.

I didn’t imagine getting kicked in the face while being called a “dirty Jew”.  You didn’t come out of your house to find swastikas drawn on it. I did.

The ONE TIME Clarence Thomas was awakened from his lethargy and voted “liberal” was the cross-burning case. He, as a Black man, understood that when crosses are burned on your lawn, all your rhetoric about “real threats vs imagined threats” become bullshit.  A swastika on ones house is no different.

So you can take your “have you been dragged from your bed?” and stuff it! I am NOT going to wait for that to happen to me and my family.

I’m done with this thread.  I don’t defend the Likud’s land grab, or their view that Palestinians aren’t real people.  That’s what this thread is about.  But the bigots who lump ALL Jews in with the torah orthodox have pushed me to call them what they are, bigots, no different than the Likud.

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By Robert, August 18, 2010 at 7:41 am Link to this comment

August 17, 2010

New Rules Favor Former IDF Soldiers

Racist Universities?


Measures designed to benefit Jewish school-leavers applying for places in Israeli higher education at the cost of their Arab counterparts have been criticised by lawyers and human rights groups.

The new initiatives are viewed as part of an ongoing drive by right-wing politicians in Israel to demand “loyalty” from the country’s large minority population of Arab citizens.

Critics have termed the measures, including a programme to provide financial aid exclusively to students who have served in the Israeli army, a form of “covert discrimination”.

While most Jews are conscripted into the military, Israel’s Arab citizens are generally barred from serving.

The issue came to a head last week over reports that Tel Aviv University had reserved a large number of dormitory places for discharged soldiers, leaving Arab students facing a severe shortage of university accommodation in the coming academic year.

In addition, only former soldiers will be eligible in future for large subsidies on tuition fees under an amended law passed last month.

Arab students already face many obstacles to pursuing higher education, according to the Dirasat policy research centre in Nazareth. These include psychometric exams—a combined aptitude and personality test that has been criticised as culturally biased—and minimum age restrictions for courses, typically at age 21, when soldiers finish their three-year service.

But Tel Aviv university’s decision has come under fire because it will put further pressure on Arab students to forgo higher education.

Most Arab families live far from Tel Aviv, with limited public transport connections. High poverty rates also mean few are able to afford private rooms for their children, and Arab students already complain that private landlords refuse to rent to them.

“Haifa University, which has the largest Arab student population, also reserves dorm rooms for former soldiers.

Far-right leaders have suggested in the past that the Arab minority can be encouraged to emigrate by restricting access to higher education. Benny Elon, a former cabinet minister, notoriously summed up the policy as: “I will close the universities to you, I will make your lives difficult, until you want to leave.””


Click on link for the rest on Israel’s racism, discrimination…Apartheid:

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By omop, August 18, 2010 at 5:35 am Link to this comment

Is this affliction only applicable to Israeli Jews?

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By thebeerdoctor, August 18, 2010 at 4:58 am Link to this comment

How sad to read these comments, It is easy to understand because religion is often used to justify robbery, injustice and deceit. That is the gist of it. Using victimization as a weapon to demand money from the United States so that the ‘sovereign’ state of Israel can pretend to be safe and secure. Alas for the American citizen who practices Judaism. Emotionally whipsawed by the ethnic propaganda of AIPAC and JDL, who repeatedly tell them that the Zionist designs of the Middle East state are their own. That they must embrace the doctrine that the only thing the world respects is force. A very clever ruse to distract those caught up in this conflagration that none of this has anything do with their God (real or imagined) and it is actually about the vicious brutality of greed which embraces the notion that war and weapons and continuous conflicts, are vital reasons for existence.
How sad indeed.

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By Shingo, August 18, 2010 at 4:16 am Link to this comment

By Inherit The Wind, August 18 at 8:02 am
“But I always knew, sooner or later, the world would turn against me solely for being born a Jew, not for anything I did or said.”

Is that what the world is doing ITW?  Has the world come to your home, invaded it and dragged you from your bed in the middle of the night, or did you decide to participate in a discussion and come across those who disagree with you?

Can you even tell the difference?

“but would NEVER hold all Muslims accountable for Al Qaeda or all Christians accountable for Eric Rudolf or Pat Robertson or David Koresh.”

That might be true had anyone dared to defend anyone of these individuals.  Of course, it is rather revealing that you have chosen to compare the behaviour of Israelis to Al Qaeda.  Not even I would suggest Israel is quote that bad.

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By Inherit The Wind, August 18, 2010 at 4:02 am Link to this comment

Thanks D.R. Zing.

The same people who claim I’m imagining things would NEVER say that to a Black person or a Palestinian who also TRULY faced bigotry.

Like a man who abuses a woman and then tells her that she’s crazy and it’s all in her mind.

I spend many years of my life hiding the fact that I was a Jew (As a younger man I didn’t look stereotypically Jewish and my last name isn’t obviously Jewish either). Why?  It was just easier to get through life and I didn’t follow the religion anyway.  But I always knew, sooner or later, the world would turn against me solely for being born a Jew, not for anything I did or said.

And so it’s happening.  At least twice a century Jews face this rising hatred and tendency to blame all the ills of the world on us. It’s overdue, so it’s here now.  The end of the last rising, in 1945, was 65 years ago.  The remarks of Balkas, Rosross, and even Shingo, plus others claim it’s a self-fulfilling prophesy.  They use the behavior of radical fanatics with the religion to justify it (the Antwerp playground story) but would NEVER hold all Muslims accountable for Al Qaeda or all Christians accountable for Eric Rudolf or Pat Robertson or David Koresh.

There are over 6 billion people in the world.  How can a tiny group of 14 million be responsible for all the evil in that world?

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By Robert, August 17, 2010 at 9:48 pm Link to this comment

Israel’s Useful Idiots

Christian Students to Defend Israel Abroad

“Knesset lobby recruits Christian ‘ambassadors’ to counter pro-Palestinian campaigns against Israel on overseas campuses. ‘When you send a Jewish student, they immediately say he’s not objective,’” explains MK Yoel Hasson

By Tzvika Brot

“August 16, 2010 “YNet”——In recent years, more and more Israeli politicians lecturing in universities abroad have had to deal with disturbances stirred up by pro-Palestinian students, forcing them to halt their lectures, or even canceling them altogether.

The recent phenomenon led Knesset members to come up with a creative solution, realizing the response to Muslim demonstrations of force will not come from young Jewish students, but rather from Christian ones, who are just as eager to defend Israel.

The Knesset for Christian Allies Caucus lobby, headed by Knesset Member David Rotem (Yisrael Beiteinu), began locating and training Christian students in every prestigious university and collage in North America and Europe, with the aim of establishing a non-Jewish support group that will represent the Israeli side in each campus.

The lobby, which includes dozens of MKs from all across the political spectrum, is considered one of the most active lobbies in the Knesset.

As part of the initiative, lobby members contacted Evangelical organization Eagles’ Wings, which helped them locate suitable Christian students abroad. The admission requirements: Both written and oral eloquence and the ability to speak in front of an audience.

So far, 150 students have been trained for the program, while the aim is to train an additional 30 students annually. The “ambassadors” undergo public relations courses, visit Israel and meet with politicians, members of the academy and Foreign Ministry diplomats.

The last group of 15 students to visit Israel, concluded their trip only 10 days ago.

“When you send a Jewish student to defend Israel, they immediately say he’s not objective,” explained lobby member MK Yoel Hasson (Kadima).

However, when a large group of Christian students presents the truth about Israel from the standpoint of a non-Jew – that Israel is not a military state, but an advanced high-tech country – it has a twofold value,” he added.

Thus far, Israel support groups have been established at Oxford University in Britain, Amsterdam University in The Netherlands, and Berkley, Georgetown and Florida Universities in the Unites States, as well as the prestigious American colleges Wheaton and Pepperdine.”


Click on link for the rest of the story:

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By D.R. Zing, August 17, 2010 at 8:43 pm Link to this comment

Inherit the Wind,

I offer you apologies and condolences. I apologize because it is painful to watch people taking shots at you know matter what you say. My condolences for what you have suffered and continue to suffer.  I ask that you consider this point: The purpose of some posters is to say anything that prevents rational discussion of the Chris Hedges essay. A poster may appear to be exactly what he seems:  An educated cynic who can cite history, who can think of nothing positive to say and offer no solutions and therefore pontificates in the hope of hurting someone like you. He likes the sound of his own voice and doesn’t really give a damn what he says or who he hurts as long as he can see his pedantic little diatribes in print.  The result: He hijacks the board and all serious discussion about the Chris Hedges essay is lost in the chatter. Or it could be that same poster is not at all what he seems.  He could very well be offering his malicious pseudo-intellectual bullshit knowing full well that it is malicious pseudo-intellectual bullshit, but he is doings so with a twofold purpose:  To discredit the entire site and, as before, to stop any serious discussion of the Chris Hedges essay. Or he could be just a jerk who likes hurting people who attempt to engage in serious dialog about anything. You could be pink, white, green, blue or yellow and if he thought he could say something to make you feel bad, he would, taking one position one day, the opposite the next.  He just can’t stand productive discussions and if hurting people is the only way he can stop a serious debate, then hurt people he does. The point: Don’t feed the trolls. I know it’s fun when people reply to your posts. And I know you get more replies when you respond to other people.  But it comes at a risk: That the content of the essay never gets seriously discussed because people stop by, read what is going and don’t want to get involved. All they see is one or two people railing about issues that have little or nothing to do with the actual content of the original essay. 

So take it from someone who frequently reads your posts but rarely replies to them—you have a lot to say. You are a good writer. What you say is important.  Assess the essays and editorials that are published here. Speak your mind.  Reply to the civil and the sane.  But don’t feed the trolls. You have no way of ascertaining their true motivations. But you can see their results.  They kill serious discussions on this website. Take care of yourself, alright? You have a good mind. We need people like you.

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By rosross, August 17, 2010 at 8:39 pm Link to this comment

The photographs of the IDF soldier and her comments are reflective of the debased nature of Israeli society. An occupier will always become debased and more so when the culture of the occupier is sourced in a belief in one’s superiority, innocence and victimhood.
The psychology of Israelis and their supporters can be found in the dysfunctional psychology of the religion and the culture it has created.
The biggest problem with a belief in one’s superiority or victimhood is that anything which questions this ‘truth’ is truly terrifying to the psyche: so much of what you are is what you believe and so much of what you believe about the world is founded in the beliefs of your culture and religion (whether practising or not) and these are the secure foundation of your world and your sense of Self.
Questioning one part questions all and threatens your physical world and the world of your psyche. You find the same situation with any group which sees itself in this way and which has isolated itself from the wider community.
Because there is no perspective the ‘known’ world is all and to ‘lose it’ means annhiliation. Such beliefs tap into the fears of and experiences of loss which are part and parcel of all human beings.
The more they are repressed the more the fear grows.
Having spent time in Israel it is clear that while Israelis/Jews may see themselves as superior to goys they see themselves as completely superior to Arabs; whom they seem to regard as some sort of ‘animal’.
To ‘humanise’ the ‘animal’ would be to dehumanise the Israeli and would make it that much harder for the soldiers to commit the shocking human rights abuses and war crimes which their government consistently demands of them.
That soldier is no more than a reflection of IDF culture and to a degree a scapegoat: She has been singled out when she is no more than a reflection of the Israeli army in particular and Israeli culture in general.
Sane Israelis and Jews are rightly shocked if not horrified when children attack and abuse elderly Palestinians;  write abuse on the doors of their homes; or when settlers shoot Palestinians trying to harvest their crops or beat them up for putting a foot on a Jews only road; or when soldiers murder or maim helpless Palestinians both old and young; or when Israel tortures prisoners…. including children… thousands of them amongst the 10,000 Palestinians in Israeli prisons…. the list is long.
But the sane are in the minority and the majority deny, lie and block the truth of what they do and who they are because to allow the slightest crack in their facade would be to open the floodgates of truth and destroy the mythology with which they and their ancestors have lived for centuries.
Human beings fight harder to hold onto their dreams than any reality and usually only relinquish them when forced to.
In psychological terms Israelis and Jews.. at least those who live the lie… are ‘forcing themselves’ into a reality which will leave them no choice but to finally grow up and to heal the psychological wounds which underpin their religion and culture.

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By Arraya, August 17, 2010 at 8:36 pm Link to this comment

We will always be attacked.  Whatever we do, we will always be attacked.”

And that, leads to this - to prove it

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By Shingo, August 17, 2010 at 8:25 pm Link to this comment

I forgot to add Rossross, that among the comments section, one tried to defebnd these photos with this diatribe:

“We will always be attacked. Whatever we do, we will always be attacked.”

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By Shingo, August 17, 2010 at 8:22 pm Link to this comment


I think it’s summed up best in this incident, where a female IDF prison guard posted pictures of herself alongside Palestinian prisoners, and described it as “the most beautiful time of my life”

It has caused quite a stir, but the most disturbing aspect s that she defended herself by stating that she saw nothing wrogn with what she did.

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By ofersince72, August 17, 2010 at 8:21 pm Link to this comment

I will give this to the Jewish clan,

They sure know how to keep the world attention right on

them.  Because they victims and poor,  worse than any

persecution ever done to any clan anywhere or anytime

in the history of mankind.

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By rosross, August 17, 2010 at 8:14 pm Link to this comment

Shingo we have had similar experiences. I have spent time in Israel and with many Jewish and Israeli colleagues and yes, there are exceptions, but in the main every criticism or insult or circumstance is dismissed as anti-semitism when it can be. Either of the individual or of Israel.
And it was clear that ‘ripping off the goys’ was part of the game. However, having also lived in India, I would add that this isn’t particular to Jews…. the Indians are exactly the same although to them we are not goys but untouchables which is probably the same thing. And from what I have observed, so are the Chinese.
But back to the personal stories where the persecution and discrimination was not toward Jews but came from them:
I was verbally abused in a public park when living in Antwerp, by Hasidic Jews (with American accents) because I took a child into the playground, not realising, as a newcomer, that the Jewish community had ‘taken over this park’ and saw it as their own and I a ‘goy’ had dared to enter. I dare say the Belgians knew better but as an expat I was entirely ignorant.
My sin was to put a three year old on a swing.
Needless to say, having lived around the world, this sort of rude, fearful insularity is not particular to Jews but it is particular to groups which set themselves apart and see themselves as superior.
I am sure it would never have occurred to those women in their heavy coats and strange wigs that they were being rude and had no right to try to force me out and I just felt sorry for them. I did however refuse to leave until the swing had ended… but I did not go back which was probably cowardly of me… or perhaps just wise.
I would add, the other side of the coin is that I have great Israeli and Jewish friends who are as balanced, functional and reasonable as anyone else. Sadly I suspect they are a minority.
Israel has been a ‘testing’ ground for saner Jews and Israelis and more than one of them is deeply ashamed of what the country is. And many of them, both inside Israel and outside, work hard to bring justice to the Palestinian people and sanity to Israel. I suspect they have more chance of achieving the former than the latter.
The thing about psychological dysfunction is that when it becomes entrenched in a culture it is not easily recognised. A fish does nor realise it swims in water. Jews do not recognise their paranoia in the main.
The adage says it all:‘I’m not paranoid it’s just that everyone is against me.’

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By rosross, August 17, 2010 at 8:01 pm Link to this comment

An acquaintance , who went into Philadelphia, Miss, right after the murders in 1964 to help oversee an election, also a non-religious Jew, would say to Gentiles like you: “Sooner or later you will find a reason to kill me. Because I’m a Jew.”

Well, with paranoia like that I am sure his wish was likely to come true.
When you approach the world believing things like that then that is the energy you send out…
Dysfunctional at best and insane at worst and all sourced in the paranoid philosophy of the religion. I am just glad my ancestors dropped it all and the paranoia along with it.
What Jews and Israelis don’t admit is that any belief in exceptionality is a belief in superiority.That is why it is addictive. If you are not special then who or what are you? Ordinary like everyone else. It is the same reason why people become addicted to war… being or believing one is under threat creates a more heightened sense of being alive… a specialness. Victimhood and for some suffering from disease, in this day and age of the industry of ‘disease survivors’ or even being homosexual or lesbian can do the same thing… you see yourself as belonging to a distinct group, and the ‘threat’ from the greater society, sometimes real but often imagined, makes you feel special.
The Jews have been practising it for a few thousand years so it is so ingrained they don’t even see what they have become.
It is why non-practising or lapsed Jews still call themselves jews. THEY DON’T WANT THE RELIGION BUT THEY STILL WANT THE SPECIALNESS. I am just fortunate that my great-grandfather married a sensible Scot and she would have none of that nonsense. Or perhaps he was sensible and married a Scot because he would have none of that nonsense.And his family rejected him, because he married ‘out’.... my God a goy! What a tragedy… which is the other tragic aspect to all religions or groups which see themselves as special. Don’t worry, it isn’t particular to Jews like most things… within the Indian caste system you get the same superiority factor and ‘casting out’ of those who marry out.
But there is hope. Lapsed catholics don’t call themselves catholic so lapsed Jews should not call themselves jews. If you don’t want to practice the religion then don’t call yourself a Jew and then you would have no cause to expect or receive discrimination should it exist. Which mostly it doesn’t.
More to the point, if that happened there would be a quarter or less Jews… of the five million in the US and the five million in Israel .... most are secular from what I can see ... in the world and the problems would be solved for Jews, Israel and Palestinians.
But, if you care about the religion then go for it and wear the cost… just as Christians and Moslems do in Hindu India; Christians and Moslems do in Israel; Hindus do in Sri Lanka; Moslems do in the United States and any other minority group which seeks to set itself apart from the wider community.
As wise old heads would have said:’ You made your bed so lie in it and stop complaining.’

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By Shingo, August 17, 2010 at 8:00 pm Link to this comment

By Inherit The Wind, August 17 at 11:30

“An acquaintance , who went into Philadelphia, Miss, right after the murders in 1964 to help oversee an election, also a non-religious Jew, would say to Gentiles like you: “Sooner or later you will find a reason to kill me. Because I’m a Jew.”

As I read these comments I know exactly what he means.”

There’s a saying that Stalin’s paranoia was a self fulfilling prophecy. 

There are anecdotes ITW. Your acquaintance exhibits traits like yourself, and will see threats and attacks where none are made or intended.  Her condition is clearly a sign of collective trauma that affects many Jews, but she will or would have spent a great deal of her existence convincing herself that someone was going to kill her (or try to) for being Jewish.

I knew a wealthy but very rutheless Israeli businessman, some would say unscrupulous.  Very few people had a good thing to say about him.  He had mistresses throughout the country, ripped workmen off, screwed other partners.  One day he received a bomb threat, which surprised nobody.  When interviewed by the local paper, he claimed the atatck was motivated by anti Semitism.

I worked for a while in Montreal in a orthodox Jewish neighbourhood.  There were many cases when orthodox Jewish women would struggle with their children, often in prams. I would always offer to help them.  Some would graciously accept.  Others would look at me as though I was about to rape them. 

Now tell me ITW, do you think I was legitimately threatening these women or not?

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By ofersince72, August 17, 2010 at 7:45 pm Link to this comment

And besides,

  Looky here,  treaty after treaty with the American

Native Injuns, and they finally were treated with

dignity, self-determination and prosperity…

So I have no doubt that the Palastinians will be well

taken care of,  America is just that way ! ! ! ! ! ! !

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By Inherit The Wind, August 17, 2010 at 7:44 pm Link to this comment

Now please explain to me why Balkas’s comments on Jews are any more acceptable than Sarah Palin’s on Muslims and the community center two blocks from the WTC.

Change it from “Jews” to “Muslims” and Balkas is a horrible bigot (as are most of you).

BTW, I’m STILL trying to figure out why the tea-baggers and the ADL are determined to stop this community center from going in, having met EVERY legal requirement and being on private land.

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By Inherit The Wind, August 17, 2010 at 7:30 pm Link to this comment


I can see that none of you have a lick of sense in your heads.  Shingo asked me a question and I answered it: Have I ever been attacked for being a Jew (or was it all theoretical)?  Yes, I have, as a lone kid by a VERY large number of boys who were taught by their fathers that it was OK to beat up a Jew.

Have I ever been discriminated against in a job for being a Jew?  The answer was: Possibly, but not definitely.

An acquaintance , who went into Philadelphia, Miss, right after the murders in 1964 to help oversee an election, also a non-religious Jew, would say to Gentiles like you: “Sooner or later you will find a reason to kill me. Because I’m a Jew.”

As I read these comments I know exactly what he means.  You all sound EXACTLY like the Re-thuglican tea-baggers who want to end EVERY program that helps non-White minorities, who claim the ONLY discrimination is “reverse discrimination” and NOW seek to repeal the 14th Amendment, and, if possible, the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts.

It always depends on whose ox is being gored.

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By rosross, August 17, 2010 at 7:13 pm Link to this comment

Many groups are singled out. Some are paranoid about it, like the Jews, and some are not. Some are paranoid for a short time and some never get over it.
I think there is probably more ‘racism’ in the US than any other developed nation. It is the one country which divides itself into hyphenated groups: African American, Italian-American etc.  And if Jews experience discrimination then so do Moslems even more so today. Blacks have always been discriminated against although it is not as bad as it was.
The victimhood mentality and the superiority concept of Judaism makes or encourages Jews to see only their own discrimination perhaps. Although it was not always the case because many Jews were at the forefront of freedom for blacks.
paranoia is paranoia. If you are discriminated against then ask yourself what may be the source of it. If you are part of a group which sets yourself apart them you are always likely to be a focus.
If you scream anti-semitism everytime someone criticises Israel or a Jew you won’t get far. The world is actually tired of the holocaust industry and the anti-semitism industry and the whole Jewish angst…. the holocaust was 60 years ago…. it’s time to get over it. It wasn’t the worst thing which ever happened, sadly there have been plenty of holocausts since… it isn’t special, sacred or exceptional… tragically.
And Israel has destroyed forever any fantasy the world might have had, that Jews were special, smarter .... Israel has acted more stupidly than probably most other nations… or any kind of ‘light’ unto anyone.
Jews and Israelis are as smart and as dumb as anyone; as cruel and as kind…. they are as ordinary and as exceptional as any of us and the sooner they realise this the sooner they can escape from the paranoid victim mentality which the religion has bred in the culture for centuries.
The tragedy of Israel is that it is the end result of that culture and the dysfunction… and insanity of the mindset is all too clearly revealed.

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By omygodnotagain, August 17, 2010 at 6:42 pm Link to this comment

Kids are cruel, when I was at school fat kids and skinny kids were bullied, its an unpleasant reality.
Being discriminated for most of your working life, due to anti-gentilism that is serious.
Two short story one day sitting at my desk my boss walked in and started ranting it was all Paul’s fault. What did he do wrong I asked. He’s responsible for all the problems, you know, I said he was a Jew. Then he stormed out.
Story 2 I have an appointment at 2pm on Good Friday to talk about a project, a sitting in his office across from his desk as he talked on the phone about how to get work for his friends son’s for half an hour.
I quietly whispered I have to leave soon its Good Friday service at 3 pm, at which time he roared with laughter told his friend on the phone, then told me how they had pulled a scam on the Vatican for some marketing project. As God is my witness.
ITW deal with that for years.

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By nemesis2010, August 17, 2010 at 6:26 pm Link to this comment

By Inherit The Wind, August 17 at 2:47 pm

“So…you understand why I was attacked as Jew when I was 10 years old?  And, from your post, you somehow think I deserved it, solely for being a Jew? You can JUSTIFY it????
Anyone who thinks children DESERVE to suffer is sick and a bane on humanity.  There are 6 billion people on this earth and less than 15 million of them are Jewish”

Damn ITW that brings a tear to my one good eye.

In first grade we had a bully who used to scare us to death until he made the mistake of hitting me and I whipped his ass in front of the entire class. We were both 7. That was a traumatic experience for me and I’ve had a fear of pin pong paddles in the hands of first grade teachers ever since.

I was beat up by a 12 year old when I was only 10 outside of the only movie theater in town. Over a girl! After he beat me up, my 14 year old cousin wupped his ass. I’m the victim of anti-othermanism and Danny O’Brien was the victim of anti-familialism. The girl fell in love with my cousin and I wanted to beat him up but he was too big.

I got in a fight in boot camp and beat up another Marine. Then he and a couple of his pals wanted some sweet revenge but my friends joined in and then the D.I. got involved and PTed our asses until, finally and mercifully, one of the guys passed out from exertion. So I’m also a victim of DIism.

My first leave from boot camp I did that which our D.I. said not to do. I went out with a bunch of friends, got drunk (under-aged), then got my ass kicked by a semi-pro boxer. I was 18 he was about 24. I was the victim of anti-shootingyamouthoffism

A month ago an old friend and I were discussing which were dumber; democrats or republicans… the discussion became heated and he finally challenged me to a fight. We’re 66 & 64 and I told him that I’d bust his ass as soon as we finished the next round of whiskey. After the whiskey he had to pee and it took like forever, then my back started acting up and we both had gas because we had eaten Mexican food so we called it off on account of democrats and republicans are equally dumb.

If you’re 50 or older and can’t get a job it’s because of age discrimination. Confirmation is when you hear “Sorry Mr. ITW, you’re over-qualified for the job and we couldn’t pay you what you’re worth.“ Ain’t got nuttin to do with you being a Jew.

I know… there’s no age discrimination in the good olde U.S. of A. And pigs can fly!

Have you considered the possibility that people might sense about you? Whiny? Dweeby?

Please… accept a little advice that my mom gave me as a very young and awfully mischievous child… Stop whining and GET OVER IT!

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By rosross, August 17, 2010 at 6:18 pm Link to this comment

Israel does have a right to defend itself but Israel is not defending itself Israel is defending its occupation and continued colonisation of Palestine. And Israel is attacking its neighbours and creating wars to support its continued colonisation of Palestine. That is the problem. It has absolutely nothing to do with defence. If it had to do with defence then the first thing Israel would do would be to establish, through negotiation, legitimate borders. Israel has no legitimate borders. The only ones it could argue, possibly legally but not morally are the UN mandate. Everything beyond that is illegal as well as immoral.
But, Israel does not want to negotiate for borders because it wants all of Palestine. And the very simple reason that the US goes along with this is not becaquse it gives a toss about Israel but because Israel is a part of the American military footprint and its nuclear base in the Middle East.
American acquiescence is not to support Israel but to maintain its nuclear capacity in the region. Pure and simple. The military industrial complex, as always, runs America and dictates policy.

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By D.R. Zing, August 17, 2010 at 5:52 pm Link to this comment

It’s a shame that many of the comments in this section have devolved to name calling.  There’s a fine article on Dr. Schlessinger where name calling fits in context.

That said: If you’re an American who disagrees with Israeli policy then for the love of God start fighting for that issue to be discussed in elections.  Start making it loud and clear that you don’t want your tax dollars going to Israel.  When a journalist reports that Candidate Bland Eye “supports Israel,” write that journalist a letter reminding hesheit that newspapers do not publish poetry and hesheit therefore should not be discussing foreign policy symbolically. Do the same for television news.

For journalists reading this site, I would implore you to pretend that this is a really important issue and therefore you are willing to shirk a little journalistic baggage, that you will explore history, that you will ridicule symbolic answers, that you will ignore sophistry and focus on what is self-evident. In other words pretend this a story where an intern schlurped executive schlong and you have the semen stains to prove it. I know it will be difficult to place foreign policy and human rights on the same high level of importance as under-the-table fellatio. But do your best. 

Here are some questions you might ask after you’ve searched around and located something other than your Puritan morality and shriveled sex glands to scribble with:  “What do you mean Candidate Bland Eye when you say, ‘support for Israel’?  Do you mean you’re going to put on a cheerleader uniform and shout ‘go go go’?  Or, are you saying we’re going to send Israel a billion dollars worth of jock straps every year?  How much military aid does the United States deliver to Israel each year?  What is the overall amount of economic aid the United States provides to Israel per year? And what exactly is a loan guarantee? What does it mean, what does it entail, what happens if we take it away?  You don’t know the answer to these questions! Then what qualifies you to be running for President of the United States!  On to more important questions.  In the footnotes of The Star Report it states Monica Lewinki performed anal lingus on former President Bill Clinton. Do you think such a visceral blow impaired his ability to negotiate peace with the Israelis and Palestinians?” 

As for the rest of you who care, tear a hundred dollar check in half and send it with a letter to a candidate:  Are you willing to cut off all financial aid to Israel if Israel does not begin dismantling settlements that are deemed illegal by most civilized nations in the world?  Tell said candidate you’ll send the other half of the check as soon as you get an answer. 

These are things can do.  And you will find there are Jews in both the United States and Israel who agree with you. But you can’t be a Stone idiot and claim conspiracies exist where none exist.  And you can’t cast dispersions that insult Jews everywhere. Israel has a right to defend itself. It just not have the right right to use American tax dollars for defense when the majority of Americans disagree with Israeli policies. 

Mr. Hedges. Thank you once again for another fine article.  I apologize for juxtaposing it with the words of a “whoreson obscene greasy tallow-catch.” But I’m sure we could along. Just don’t pray for me. And we’re good.

And I do realize, dear readers, that I’m a hypocrite for chastising name calling and then taking a few gratuitous shots at journalists. My apologies to investigative journalists and foreign correspondents everywhere.  You do good work. Now clean up your profession publicly. Thank you.

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By rosross, August 17, 2010 at 5:30 pm Link to this comment

While I sympathise with your experiences as a child I still believe that you were more seriously ‘damaged’ because of the victimhood mentality of Jewish culture.
American society does seem to be more aggressive and cruel and ‘divided’ than others I have experienced, and this is clear in the schoolyard even… it’s a ‘story’ told over and over again in movies made for kids…but such things happen to kids all over the world for all sorts of reasons.
Kids are mocked for being poor, freckled, redhaired, fat, bad at sport, good at school, bad at school, badly dressed (less of an issue in countries which sensibly have school uniforms) etc. etc.
But, for all of them, and I experienced some of this as a child you have to grow up… get over it…. move on.
Judaism has prevented its followers from ‘growing up’ and moving on. The wailing at the Wailing Wall is moaning and grizzling about wrongs done thousands of years in the past for god’s sake.
In psychological terms that is seriously dysfunctional.
So you had a tough childhood…. heaps of kids had far worse ones and they managed to get over it and mature. We choose whether or not we see ourselves as victims. Harder for Jews I know and some others (study the Armenians) but if we are to be psychologically healthy we have to choose to move on.

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By truedigger3, August 17, 2010 at 2:55 pm Link to this comment

Re: By Shingo, August 17 at 7:31 am

shingo wrote:
“This leads us to the real threat that a nuclear armed Iran presents. It’s not that Iran would ever attack Israel, but that the emergence of another nuclear power would dismantle Israel’s military supremacy and thus is guarantee of military invincibility.

In this piece by Anshel Pfeffer of Haaretz has described the Israeli condition….” (


I am surprised that you swallowed this piece of Israeli bullshit.
Accusing Iran of developing nuclear weapons is nothing but trying to find an execuse to attack Iran.
We have been there before, remember?! WMD anybody!!
Your passion and debating skills in behalf of the Palestinian people and exposing the enormous injustice inflected on it by Israel is greatly admired.

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By truedigger3, August 17, 2010 at 2:26 pm Link to this comment

Re:By Inherit The Wind, August 17 at 8:35


I am puzzled and perplexed by your job search difficulties and attributing it, for you being a Jew.
I assume that since you are in your fifties, you graduated from college sometimes in the mid to late seventies.
When I was looking for work as Electrical/Electronics Engineer in the late sixties, almost, in each company I interviewed with, there were Jews everywhere in these companies holding key and influential positions, and also in colleges and universities there were Jewish professors, lecturers and administrators everywhere.
I don’t know what is your field, but, definitely, I know, you were not looking for a job in Wall Street!!!

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By Arraya, August 17, 2010 at 12:48 pm Link to this comment

Jews have returned to their homeland. Some of them because Arab
countries expelled them as punishment for being Jewish. Those Arab countries
also exporopriated/stole all of the property of the Jews they kicked out. It is
those governments and/or nations who cry crocodile over the fate of the poor
Palestinians who are forbidden from trying to live in and assimilate into their
brethern’s nations. After 60 years no Palstinian may hold a job in Lebanon or
own property. You’d think that such treatment is reserved for abusing only Jews
not other muslims

Israeli historian Avi Shlaim states that almost all Misrahi Jewish emigrants were
voluntary over a 20-year period, recruited by Israel as part of the Zionist
project, and some were stampeded into flight by false flag Mossad operations
(Iraq and Egypt). None have been denied the right to return and both Iraq and
Egypt have pro-actively invited them to do so through advertising in major
newspapers. (
Any Jews illegally expelled with UN-registered claims have the right to return,
as do Palestinans whose properties were given to these Jewish recruits while
they were driven into refugee camps.

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By balkas, August 17, 2010 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

Recall please that hebrews had been commanded by their scribes never to be borrowers, only lenders.
They were also commanded to have servants and not to be servants.

Couple millennia later khazars took up these `teachings`. Moving westward and avoiding work as much as possible, became teachers, money lenders, advisers, clerks and would thus beconme the richer group of people in all countries.

And then would complain that the tsar or king would not let them work. So they had no choice but to become salespeople, bankers, store owners, doctors, teachers, etc.

Or does one think that nature-god was that evil to endow jews with more talent than us? How long must we remain stupid? tnx

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By balkas, August 17, 2010 at 12:21 pm Link to this comment

You either have not read my numerous posts or were blitzreading and blitzunderstanding them.
I have stated many times that greatest criminal minds were 8k yrs ago and today clerico-noble class of lowlife.

I am not excluding lords, earls, aghas, amirs, ceos, counts, plemstvo, boyars, barons, christians, muslims, or jews from that category.

I also often posit that division of people by clerico-noble class of people into more- and less-valued is THE FIRST CAUSE for all ills that befall us.

What makes jews more perilous to us is the fact that they are composed of hundred of ethnicities and an overwhelming number of them near-totally or totally reject their biological-cultural roots and solely think of selves as a religious in some manner, and degree.

Even catholics don`t behave that way. In WW1, catholic germany, austria, hungary, slovakia,, slovenia, croatia fought catholic france and italy.

Which proves that the `religion` or cult was of less import to them than bilogical-cultural trait.

Can you find a mizrahi or shepardi who waged war against israel! Recall also that rabin said that no jew should kill a jew.
Remember also western and jewish outcry in 60s: let my people go.
Such as in iraq, maghreb, russia. And later jewish complaint about them being expelled!tnx

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By Sodium-Na, August 17, 2010 at 11:51 am Link to this comment

Re: Mehere,August 17 at 11:49 am.


Thank you for pointing out an extremely important point I miserably have overlooked or forgotten as I listed my short notes on Jews,Zionism,Christian Zionists etc….

Yes,indeed,the partly to be blamed for the perpetual violence in the Middle East because there are so many cowards in Congress and in the Executive Branch,responding only to the dictates of their masters who put in the seats of power in the first place. Because of their cowardice,the certainly complicit in the ugliness of the perpetual violence and wars being dump over the heads of the innocents in the Middle East.

As far as I am concerned,the United States should distance itself from the barbarity and insane behaviors of Israel in East Jerusalem and its horrible settlers in the Palestinian West Bank.

Mehere-Thank you again for bringing an extremely important point to the discussion I should not have overlooked or forgotten.

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By balkas, August 17, 2010 at 11:47 am Link to this comment

In principle i discard the idea of allness; i.e, knowing all about any event or knowing that all members of a cult, group of people are for this and that.
So, u’d find no word “all” in any of my posts. But i did expect some jews to ignore this fact and hoping many others had not noticed the fact, lied about my use of ALL jews approbating this or that.tnx

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By omop, August 17, 2010 at 11:42 am Link to this comment


      We all should accept what a leading Rabbi in Los Angeles has stated on numerous occasions. Namely that the “SOUL” of a Jew differs from the “SOULS” of all non Jews in the same manner/difference between the SOUL of a human ( JEW ) and the soul of a CATTLE all (non-Jews).

      Which if one considers seriously how the Jews have been treated by the Russians, the Spanish, the British, the French, the Germans, etc, throughout history one is left with wondering who to blame for the present set up in Israel.

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By Arraya, August 17, 2010 at 11:38 am Link to this comment

I’m starting a new world.  No Jews allowed, or blacks or whites or arabs or
americans, etc…

I’ll be the first to renounce my ethnic, national and religious background. 
Everybody needs to leave their baggage at the door.

And no country has the right to exist. 

Who’s with me…

I am the New World Order

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By Inherit The Wind, August 17, 2010 at 10:47 am Link to this comment

Your comments are considerate, and if you have experienced anti-semitism I understand. Why, because the business I worked in for 30 years was rife with anti-gentilism.


So…you understand why I was attacked as Jew when I was 10 years old?  And, from your post, you somehow think I deserved it, solely for being a Jew? You can JUSTIFY it????

Anyone who thinks children DESERVE to suffer is sick and a bane on humanity.  There are 6 billion people on this earth and less than 15 million of them are Jewish

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By Sodium-Na, August 17, 2010 at 10:38 am Link to this comment

Re: balkas,August 17 at 12:04 pm.


I feel that I must tell you that I wholeheartedly and completely disagree with your obviously uncalled for the deliberate disparaging Jews.

Without going into details of my personal experiences with many of them in my younger years,which were all positive,I have found them to be no different from other groups of the human race,except that they happened to be Jews by birth.Period.

Sometimes,one or two or more rotten apples may be found in a carton box of apples. So is the case in the millions upon millions of boxes of the human race!!! To keep pointing on all Jews as a convenient and easy minority group to pick on for the ills of the human societies is self-defeating and morally wrong and totally bankrupt.

Wise up,please.

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By omygodnotagain, August 17, 2010 at 9:51 am Link to this comment

Your comments are considerate, and if you have experienced anti-semitism I understand. Why, because the business I worked in for 30 years was rife with anti-gentilism. While on many occasions I have worked with talented Jews I respect, far more often I have worked under Jews who were clueless, but got the deal because they were Jews.  Their first rule, after getting a large salary, was hire someone who knows what they are doing, so they hired me. When it went well as it often did, and many were ground up projects meaning you were creating the working paradym, instead of being rewarded, another know nothing Jew would be hired paid a large salary,because he was a friend of Abe, or Irv or who ever, oh, and by the way “Mr Gentile you have to work a year to get benefits”, .  It is very easy to get resentful in cases like that. On the broader level, the same mechanism works in finance, law politics and education. When General Franks call Doug Feith “the stupidest
f—king man in Washington”. I understood how Feith got there.  The Jews are not alone in this the Chinese and Indians are similar, but on the whole brighter and more deserving.

One last thing about smarts, PISA runs the International assessment of students at age 15, the last report in science was compiled for 2006, Israel came 39th out of 50 developed and nearly developed nations, the US was 36th, Finland was first, Canada 4th.
The point is these tests are a level playing field they can’t be tampered with or have someone pull a favor. So why are their such high concentrations of Jews in our top Universities, because the money their parent make from jobs they cannot do, but have underpaid goys do, goes to paying tutors to train their kids for SAT tests. Here is the pdf link page 21

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By Robert, August 17, 2010 at 8:49 am Link to this comment

On Facebook: Israeli soldier posed with bound Arabs

Associated Press Writer – Mon Aug 16, 2010

“JERUSALEM – A former Israeli soldier posted photos on Facebook of herself in uniform smiling beside bound and blindfolded Palestinian prisoners, drawing sharp criticism Monday from the Israeli military and Palestinian officials.

Israeli news websites and blogs showed two photographs of the woman. In one, she is sitting legs crossed beside a blindfolded Palestinian man who is slumped against a concrete barrier. His face is turned downwards, while she leans toward him with her face upturned. Another shows her smiling at the camera with three Palestinian men with bound hands and blindfolds behind her.

The incident was a reminder of the fraught relations between Israeli soldiers and the West Bank Palestinians under their control.

Israeli soldiers have run into trouble on the social media sites like Facebook and YouTube before. Most recently a group of combat soldiers were reprimanded for breaking into choreographed dance moves while on patrol in the West Bank town of Hebron. The dance featured prominently on YouTube.

Palestinian Authority spokesman Ghassan Khatib condemned the photos and said they pointed to a deeper malaise — how Israel’s 43-year-old occupation of Palestinians has affected the Israelis who enforce it.”


Hmmm…Israel’s racism & Apartheid at work…the pictures tell it all !!!

Click on link for photos, details…etc…

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By Inherit The Wind, August 17, 2010 at 8:47 am Link to this comment

Yes, Shingo, anti-Semitism has to be learned, and the kids who called me names and beat me up learned from their parents and (sad to say) their church.  I’m in my 50’s so this was in the mid- to late- 60s—the last AFTER King and RFK were killed.

As for the jobs…coincidence? Well, with the first one, maybe, but the owners liked to hire grads from their university, a Catholic U…so, maybe it was simply coincidence—but the percentage of Jews, both religious and non-religious is much higher in this area than in most of the country.

The second? Well, they got rid of the higher paid Jews, right off, but not the higher paid Indians, Chinese and American non-Jews, but who was the HIGHEST paid? I don’t know—your point is well-taken.

It wasn’t that long ago that Sikhs were being grabbed off the streets and attacked. Why? Their turbans led the ignorant to believe they were Arabs and/or Muslims. It doesn’t justify grabbing Arabs/Muslims and attacking them, but the angry and ignorant don’t think about that (The Sikh turban is wrapped and tied very differently than the Muslim turban and can be any kind of color—it’s very easy to tell which is which).

When I got to college for the first time in my life I was in an environment where the plurality of people were Jews.  Many had grown up in heavily Jewish areas and had NEVER faced the kind of in-your-face, knock-you-down-and-spit-on-you attacks that I had, and my siblings had—yet to them I wasn’t “Jewish enough”!

I was on a job as a young guy down South and a klansman started to rant about the Jews this and the Jews that and how the best thing to do was shoot ‘em all.  Before I could move to bury the claw of my hammer in his skull, my boss, seeing my hand move and me tensing up, loudly broke in with a story about hunting with his son…possibly saving me from a LONG jail sentence!

No, to me anti-Semitism isn’t a theoretical concept happening far away or long ago to people who are either very old or long dead—it’s something I’ve experienced and lived with and always expect it to show up again—like in Balkas’s claims about all Jews…  Like a dormant virus it just waits to come back to life.

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By balkas, August 17, 2010 at 8:04 am Link to this comment

“Balkas shows his true colors” Yes, i do and have for three decades: one gets rich only if one steals. A tiller never gets rich [becomes a billionaire]as a tiller.

And jews are ‘better’ at this than any other cult. And posited or postulated causes for this being?
Posited and postulated thousands of times.
But if one asks me to postulate and posit actual causes, i would gladly do that.

Just remember one lesson: everything is caused: fire, war, riches, power, abuse, exploitaion, wife beatings, banking, etc.

Natuarally, jews tend to solely offer us lamentation sans causation.
And if one is not aware of the artifice, one is dragged into an etern trivial pursuit; while jews always remain by tacit implication angelic.

They know better than to say it explicitly. It would be ridiculed, but silently implying it, might, just might, fall on right ears.
I aver i am on rock bottom; i cannot dig any deeper!  tnx

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By MeHere, August 17, 2010 at 7:49 am Link to this comment


Let me add the US to your list of enemies of Israel. They have empowered the
misguided and corrupt Israeli leaders by supplying them with political and military
support and no conditions. There isn’t one current US politician/government
official that speaks the truth on this issue.

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By balkas, August 17, 2010 at 7:33 am Link to this comment

If one says: jews are commiting crimes against palestinians, such structure implies that all and not all jews commit these crimes.
However, if one would say: all jews commit crimes against palestinians, it is an entirely diffferent statement;it contains no implication.

Of course, jews would ?always use first implication and ?never the second.

The first implication is used deliberately by jews and also drags us as much as possible into trivial pursuit; such as jews are fired, beaten on the street, have nowhere to go and the like.

My suggestion is not to feed them. tnx

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By Shingo, August 17, 2010 at 5:13 am Link to this comment

By Inherit The Wind, August 17 at 8:35 am
“You suspect wrong.  I couldn’t ride the school bus safely as a kid, having been attacked in both elementary and middle school repeatedly”

I am shocked to hear that ITW.  May I ask what time period we are talking about here?

I always assumed that anti Semitism was a mentality that had to be learned, unlike the run of the mill racism, which is often incited by obvious physical traits.  I didn’t even know who Jews were until much later, not that I gave a damn about race or religion either way.  I got into a lot of fights (and my share of black eyes) standing up to bullies who picked on vulnerable people.
“But, even here in North Central NJ it was amazing to be hired into a company with 50 professional people and be the ONLY Jew in the place.”

But is it really?  The total Jewish population worldwide is still surprisingly small.  Roughly half reside in Israel, which leaves 8 million among nearly a billion people in the Western World (the Americas, East and Wester Europe etc) so less than 1% of the population in those territories are Jewish.  1 in 50 is actually above the odds, though I am sure it is influenced by specific industries.

“Or, when my previous company was sold (by Jewish owners) the NEW ownership, based in Utah, rapidly purged ALL the Jewish men and most of the Jewish women. The first 5 employees they let go were all Jewish men.  Coincidence? Maybe.”

In the absence of more information, it sounds sinister, but it’s possible there might have been other factors.  If it was a Jewish owned company, it’s likely that the first 5 employees to be let go were the most senior, and therefore commanded the highest salaries.  Management is usually the first to be cut during a takeover or merger.

What I find odd is that, unlike in Israel where one’s religion is apparent from a passport, we live in a society where someone’s religion is not apparent by looking at an employees name, so even though some names may be obvious, these new owners would have had to have gone to the trouble of finding out who was Jewish in order to single out the Jewish employees.

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By Inherit The Wind, August 17, 2010 at 4:35 am Link to this comment

Tell me ITW, how many times have you been beaten up or picked on for being Jewish?  How many times have you been disadvantaged for being a Jew?

I suspect the answer is none to all of the above.

You suspect wrong.  I couldn’t ride the school bus safely as a kid, having been attacked in both elementary and middle school repeatedly.  The school system finally had to put an adult bus monitor on it to ensure my safety after a kid kicked me in the face leaving me with two black eyes, calling me a “dirty Jew” the whole time.

And I’m not religious nor was I raised religiously—my parents were activists.

I don’t know what jobs or opportunities I lost because I was Jewish. Nobody ever is dumb enough to say “We’ve got our quota of Jews” or “We don’t hire Jews” or “We are getting rid of Jews”.

But, even here in North Central NJ it was amazing to be hired into a company with 50 professional people and be the ONLY Jew in the place.

Or, when my previous company was sold (by Jewish owners) the NEW ownership, based in Utah, rapidly purged ALL the Jewish men and most of the Jewish women. The first 5 employees they let go were all Jewish men.  Coincidence? Maybe.

But I learned to stop believing in coincidences like that long ago.

So, Shingo, my paranoia isn’t theoretical, like the housewives in Wyoming panicking out of fear of Arab terrorists after 9/11 (who probably never ever HEARD of Wyoming).  It’s based on real-life experience.

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By ofersince72, August 17, 2010 at 4:07 am Link to this comment

Wow, and another wow,

How easy to loose credibility.

and all the colored girls still goin
do, de, do, de, do

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By drbhelthi, August 17, 2010 at 4:04 am Link to this comment

“Problem is, most everyone in Empire USA feel they deserve to be rich, and this makes ours the most plundering, brutal and greedy society the world has ever known.”

Another false “syllogism”. 
Manipulation of a “nation” by leadership that comprises 2-4% of the population is historically redundant.  The leadership greedily plunders.  The constituency of the society is misused as its tool.
    The US Congress established that the Bush family supported the NAZI movement. The NAZI takeover of the USA began with Operation Paperclip, and the conversion of the OSS into the CIA by NAZI SS general Gehlin. The subversive manipulations of GHWBushSr, as secretive chief of the CIA, 1950s-1981, vastly broadened the subversive movement.  A list of subversive, international activities during this period was published by Congressman Ron Paul.  Computerization of the “US voting machine”, and the Bush theft of the 2000 and 2004 elections furthered their goal.  The falsely-titled “Patriot Act” and the appointment of a MOSSAD officer as Secretary of Homeland Security >may< have sealed the history of the USA.  The core of both Republican and Democrat parties was replaced with NAZI/Zionist-types, but party names continue, while both support the same New World Order goal.

“Yet the rising call here that Israel is an abomination, an outlaw state and the ALL Jews are therefore collaborators in that state’s “atrocities” are equally guilty is no different than the arguments Hitler used to justify ratcheting up fear, hatred and finally, organized mass murder.”

Another false syllogism.
    The first two ideas comprise the basis of Israeli PR, which rachets up fear among its “society”.  It also floods the world with propaganda that perpetuates “paranoia” in support of its religious society.  Due to “in and out-breeding” the term “Jew” applies to a religious society that has existed for centuries, not a national identity.  The attempt by Hebrew scholars to explain this historical fact is repeatedly distorted and suppressed by “Jewish” PR.  The tactics that NAZI leaders used were adapted from Israeli history.  The small percentage of leadership continue to manipulate “Israeli folk,” exploiting the experience of WWII.  “Hitler and the NAZIs mistreated us “Jews,” thus we are entitled to whatever we want, with impunity. And the US may have the honor of footing the bill.  Other groupings that have been treated worse can kiss-off. We are superior.” 

Numerous contributors to blogs assume the persuasive PR of the Israeli/Jewish propagandists, without insight into their status of having been “sucked-in.” 

To me, this is SAD, as it is another example of misuse of fraudulent, leadership PR, which elevates the status of the “Society of Jews” at the expense of the rest of the world.

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By Shingo, August 17, 2010 at 3:31 am Link to this comment

By rosross, August 17 at 3:58 am

“The irony for all and the tragedy for Israelis and Jews is that Israel is destroying itself.”

Very true. Israel is like the US in that regard, they are both addicted to policies and behaviour that will bring about their own undoing. The CIA has predicted that Israel will come to an end within 20 years.

Israel is turning into a gated community. The Wall works both ways, keeping the enemies out, but also trapping the Israelis and isolating them. They are enforcing their own bunker mentality and alienating the world. There are factional conflicts surfacing about the Jewish identity and debates about who is or is not really Jewish.

Israel is suffering a brain drain. Israelis are leaving Israel at the same rate they are arriving, but those departing are the skilled workers.

This leads us to the real threat that a nuclear armed Iran presents. It’s not that Iran would ever attack Israel, but that the emergence of another nuclear power would dismantle Israel’s military supremacy and thus is guarantee of military invincibility.

In this piece by Anshel Pfeffer of Haaretz has described the Israeli condition ( one Israeli explains it best. If Iran gets nukes, one Israeli tells him, more Jews who can will want to live in other countries. We’re experiencing a terrible brain drain, they tell him. We’re diluting the quality of the Jews here. Iran is destroying the Zionist idea that Israel is the refuge for Jews.

There are so many ironies in this story, but the biggest one will be that Israel is not safe for Jews. After all, the Israel has been sold as the one refuge where Jews will be protected, but that sales pitch is contradicted by the propaganda that Israel is surrounded by 1 billion Muslims who want to push Israel into the sea.

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By Shingo, August 17, 2010 at 2:58 am Link to this comment

Thanks for the kind words Sodium, but I am no great debater and I certainly wouldn’t attract much of an audience if I were to appear on television -  not that any network would allow me to say what I an free to express on this blog.

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By ofersince72, August 17, 2010 at 1:55 am Link to this comment

For those saying “It better be there when I reach
of age”, what are you going to do if it ain’t?

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By Money is funny, August 17, 2010 at 1:20 am Link to this comment

Lots of useless Generalization in this specific post relating to religious and ethnic perceptions.

Prediction: The Catholics will go to the left and the Jews will go to the right and then we do the hokey poky all night.

History lesson: Yesterday my boss was an A-HolE and I am afraid that it will happen again tomorrow. Oh and also the Roman Empire blah blah blah etc. etc. etc.

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By ofersince72, August 17, 2010 at 1:16 am Link to this comment

A headline from today

U.S. Threatens to Cut Off Arms Deal To Turkey Over
Criticism of Isreal

I will be short , but the headline speaks for itself.

This was a really good discussion on here today, as it
is usually when this topic is discussed. To often though,
the U.S. role is downplayed and I can’t understand why.
None of this happens without the U.S.,  most everyone
tries to make it appear that the U.S.  is hostage to
Israel policy. It is not, if anyway, it is just opposite.
Little is ever mentioned of Middle East resources which
is the root of all this evil, the only reason that the
U.S. gives so much support, and probably the only reason
Israel was invented in the first place.
  We can’t even control our own government, if fact, we
have lost ALL control over our government.
The Middle East will remain unstable and unjust for this
reason.  Next year, we will be having the same discussion
over the same topic.
The U.S just was responsible for over a million deaths
in the Middle East in their own LAND GRAB. It is just
part of the Perpetual War.

And, as if someone stated, if the Jews deserve a “home”
they feel secured in just as any other group deserves the
same….................then lets do it for them too.

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By rosross, August 17, 2010 at 12:55 am Link to this comment

In the main I agree with you, except on homelands.
The reality is that however much one ‘deserves’ a homeland it cannot be given with any morality and legality through dispossessing others.
More to the point, religions do not have homelands. Judaism is a religion, not a race, not a nation. When Jews lapse they are like lapsed Catholics. When they drop their religion entirely, as my ancestors did, they are no longer jews. Just as I am no longer baptist, protestant, catholic or hugeunot.The jews are no more entitled to a homeland than christians, jains, moslems, hindus, buddhists or rastafarians…. religions do not have homelands, never did and never will. People, races, have homelands but can’t necessarily keep them, e.g. the Kurds.
The whole concept of a Jewish right to a homeland is propaganda. If the people who suffered under the nazis had a homeland it was germany. They had been there for centuries.

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By Sodium-Na, August 17, 2010 at 12:13 am Link to this comment

Short notes for those who are willing to cobsider:

* The greatest enemy of all Jews everywhere,including the naive and innocent Israelis and the brain-washed ideologues is an ideology called ZIONISM.

* The best potential friends and who can give the paranoid Jews the security and protection they certainly deserve,as human being,are the 300 million Arabs of the Arab world,backed up by more than 1.2 billion Muslims in the none Arab Muslim world.

* The second greatest enemy of the Jews are the Zionist Christians who are using Zionism and Israel’s barbarity for their own agenda: The second Coming of Christ,Armageddon and Rapture. By their own admittance only 140 thousand Jews will be saved out of 14 million,the total Jewish population,world wide.

* The West in general has really never been kind to the Jews. In comparison,the Arabs and Muslims were much much more accommodating,not perfect, but much much more accommodating.

* The Holocaust was criminally performed and conducted in the West. Why the colonialists in the West had made the innocent Palestinians pay the price for the West own criminality against the Jews?

* The Jews as any other group of human beings deserve to have a home they feel secured in,but certainly not in the way Zionism has done it.

* No military might can provide them with a sustained and long-run security for the unfeasible future. Not even the military might of the United States can do that in the long-term. Only the consent of the Arab and Muslim world can do that. The consent can only be earned.

* One way to earn the consent of the Arab and Muslim world is firstly: de-Zionize Israel,and secondly: the world leaders of Zionism admit what they have done to the Palestinian was wrong and ask for forgiveness from the Palestinians. Only then negotiations between Palestinians and JEWS,not Zionists,will be worth conducting between the Palestinians and de-Zionized Israelis.

The wise will take notes fron the foregoing short notes.

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By rosross, August 16, 2010 at 11:58 pm Link to this comment

The irony for all and the tragedy for Israelis and Jews is that Israel is destroying itself. It is impossible to maintain an apartheid state. You can’t do it with walls, guns, bombs or armies. All of the settlements and walls gaurantee without a shadow of a doubt that ultimately there will be one state with equal rights for all. And it will have a Palestinian majority who will, quite naturally, quickly vote to return the name to what it always was…. Palestine. Because Israelis and their supporters wanted it all they will in fact end up with nothing except the memory of one of the most brutal and unsuccessfull colonisations in modern history.
And all executed by their own hand.

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Money is funny's avatar

By Money is funny, August 16, 2010 at 11:45 pm Link to this comment

Hear he Hear he

Everyone should be judged as an individual. The judges should be held accountable for their judgments.

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By Sodium-Na, August 16, 2010 at 9:40 pm Link to this comment


I do hope that Shingo will never allow your suggestion,that is to appear on TV,cross his mind. A debater like Shingo should remain anonymous for security reasons,because he is bluntly straightforward and disturbingly correct.

One of the main fundamental prerequisites to be a good debater is knowledge,knowledge,knowledge and more knowledge of the subject matter being debated. And equally important is never deviate from the topic at hand. I once,at a university debate in my younger years,was politely kicked out from a heated debate because I deviated from the topic that was being debated,but my partner won the debate anyway,because he was more discplined and more knowledgeable than I was.

Shingo has certainly what it takes to be not only a good debater,but a great debater.That is what he is.And that is why he has the ability and capacity to disect and cut to pieces the content of the posts of his opponents. In that sense he is a fascinating debater. I have made similar comments when I read his first posts almost two years ago. I have not changed my mind yet. In fact,the more I read his posts the more I have become convinced that I have been correct all along in my original assessment of him.

Forget about the TV thing. Let us just enjoy reading his posts and hope that he will keep doing what he is doing right now and right here at the Internet,under an anonymous name:Shingo.

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By rosross, August 16, 2010 at 8:42 pm Link to this comment


You completely ignored the fact that I said I did not condone… but sort to explain and understand.

That’s paranoia for you. After a few thousand years of a religion teaching that you are victims and everyone else is to blame it is hardly surprising.

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By Shingo, August 16, 2010 at 8:26 pm Link to this comment

By Inherit The Wind, August 17 at 12:05 am

“You all come up with excuses for why it’s OK to hate Jews.”

Seriously ITW, there was a time when I believed you had your head on straight, but I’m fast coming to the conclusion that you have simply lost your mind and are suffering from a non stop psychotic episodes.  You see the call to destroy or annihilate Israel on the back of every bus and now anti Semitism of bumper stickers.

“And, while I have NO idea were John Ellis got the idea that the Jews in Venezuela own 30% of, what was it, all the media, why does THAT justify physical attacks on them in the streets?”

Attacks on the streets ITW?  I just Googled this and all I could come up with was vandalizing on a Synagogue in Caracas, which was followed by a hit on a Catholic Mission.  The attack on the Synagogue was condemned by Chavez.

Chavez expelled an Israeli diplomat as a result of the massacre on the flotilla. That was entirely justified.  Israel responded by expelling Venezuela’s ambassador from Israel.  Stupid and childish in their part.

Israel behaved barbarically, and sadly, Israel’s murderous policies are having negative consequences for Jews.  Unacceptable, but it does go to debunk any notion that Israel has made life for Jews safer.  The Jewish community in Turkey condemned the attack on the flotilla, and Erdogan declared that the Jewish community were to be protected and respected, which they have been.

By Inherit The Wind, August 17 at 12:05 am
“You want to attack the policies of the Netanyhu government and the Likud? Fine, I’m with you on that.”

That won’t wash ITW. Likud were elected by the Israeli public and the fact is that Likud’s policies are no different that Kadima’s were.  In fact, Kadima started 2 wars, Netanyhu hasn’t yet, though he threatens to.
By Inherit The Wind, August 17 at 12:05 am
“Yeah, Jewish paranoia is real—just because we are paranoid doesn’t mean you all aren’t out to get us.  Your threatening words, condescending analysis of the “Jewish” character, and justifications for attacks on Jews in Venezuela proves my point.”

That’s grossly dishonest and worse than paranoid, it’s deranged.  Tell me ITW, how many times have you been beaten up or picked on for being Jewish?  How many times have you been disadvantaged for being a Jew?

I suspect the answer is none to all of the above.

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