By DieDaily, January 7 at 11:35 pm #

“But, this is what racism is:

ONLY Israel gets to be a nation, a race, a religion,
or a culture, as it sees convenient. Outing Zionist
Ashkanazis criminals is not a racial slur. Facts are
just facts. They are criminals and they are
Ashkanazis. There is a correlation and it is not a
“judgement” and it is not “subjective”.”

==================

Following Zakheim and Pentagon trillions to Israel and 9-11

By Jerry Mazza

Online Journal Associate Editor

Jul 31, 2006, 00:19

“Think of this as part two of Recherche du trillions perdu, my Online Journal article on Dov Zakheim, former Bush appointee as Pentagon Comptroller from May 4, 2001 to March 10, 2004. At that time he was unable to explain the disappearance of $1 trillion dollars. Actually, nearly three years earlier, Donald Rumsfeld announced on September 10, 2001 that an audit discovered $2.3 trillion was also missing from the Pentagon books. That story, as I mentioned, was buried under 9-11’s rubble. The two sums disappeared on Zakheim’s watch.

Yet on May 6, 2004, Zakheim took a lucrative position at Booz Allen Hamilton, one of the most prestigious strategy consulting firms in the world. One of its clients then was Blessed Relief, a charity said to be a front for Osama bin Laden. Booz, Allen & Hamilton then also worked closely with DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, which is the research arm of the Department of Defense. So the dark card was shifted to another part of the deck.

Judicial Inc’s bio of Dov (linked below) tells us Zakheim was/is a dual Israeli/American citizen and an ordained rabbi and had been tracking the halls of US government for 25 years, casting defense policy and influence on Presidents Reagan, Clinton, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. He is, as I described him earlier, the bionic Zionist. In fact, Judicial Inc points out that most of Israel’s armaments were gotten thanks to him. Squads of US F-16 and F-15 were classified military surplus and sold to Israel at a fraction of their value.

Judicial Inc also points out that Israel, a country of 4.8 million Russian and Polish Jewish émigrés, flies on one of the biggest Air Forces in the world, thanks to Dov. Conflict of interest here? Depends on what you’re interested in. That is, in 2001 Dov was CEO of SPS International, part of System Planning Corporation, a defense contractor majoring in electronic warfare technologies, including remote-controlled aircraft systems, and the notorious Flight Termination System (FTS) technology that could hijack even a hijacked plane and land or crash it wherever.

More from the resume: Wikipedia points out that Zakheim is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and in 2000 a co-author of the Project for the New American Century’s position paper, Rebuilding America’s Defenses, advocating the necessity for a Pearl-Harbor-like incident to mobilize the country into war with its enemies, mostly Middle Eastern Muslim nations.”

************

DieDaily,

Great posts…keep up the good work to expose the TRUTH.

Click on link for the rest of article:

http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1047.shtml

Fighting Over the Squandered Decade Posted on Dec
31, 2009 By E.J. Dionne

TO: DieDaily, January 7 at 11:35 pm

Hey DieDaily:

I watched, listened, & learned during 2 hours of
youtube video lectures by
DR.Norman G. Finkelstein, author of: “The Holocaust
Industry: Reflections on
the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering” , published in
2000 , whose resume
includes being arrested & banned from Israel for 10
years, having parents
who survived the Holocaust,traveling around the world
speaking out against
Israel,not against Jews. When a member of the
proPalestinian audience which
invited him to speak, suggested that Israel be wiped
off the face of the earth,
he said a lot of people feet the same way about
America, and he wouldn’t go
that far. At the time I said, after viewng your
infamous list, that there was enough
evil their to dry up Niagara Falls, I had no idea
that DR.NGF refers to Israel as
a Satanic State, which he did at the very end of his
presentation.  He made no
mention of SKULL & BONES, aka, THE BROTHERHOOD OF
DEATH, or of any special
rituals, just focused on the atrocities & how they
were perpetrated. At no time
did he use the word Zionists or the phrase “never
again”. Instead, almost his
entire time was spent explaining that the primary
motive behind Israels actions
was to promote fear among the Arabs that it will do
whatever it takes to
maintain its hegemony. The way drones are genociding
in Afghanistan, it seems
to be the policy of the fascists controlling the U.S.
as well. (my words). And,
like your call to lance the boil, DR.NGF didn’t offer
a solution either, at least
not in those presentations. Jesse Jackson is infamous
for playing the race card.
DR.NGF repeated many times that Israel uses the same
approach with the Holocaust
& is the basis for the above mentioned book.

DIEDAILY describes the situation reasonably thoroughly and _ _ quite aptly.

NO Thanks, DBM. The link to your HOMEPAGE, http://www.kkk.com  is of no interest to me.

Meanwhile, I just received per email, next week´s schedule of activities for the Jewish group with which I am affiliated.

“Jews” a race?  Yes, co-equally with Roman Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists, Church of God, etc.

Separate the jewish belief from israeli lineage? More fiction and propaganda.

DieDaily ... Australia is a country.  Israel is a country.  Judaism is a religion and Jews are also a race (whatever that means).

There are no Australian citizens of the U.S. (barring a handful a dual citizens).  I’d say there are not many more Israeli Americans.  But what you are listing is Jewish Americans ... not Israelis.  If any of those Americans are working for a foreign government instead of doing their jobs then they should be fired.  If you don’t have any proof of that, what are you trying to say?

Now I don’t deny the undue influence of AIPAC and I’m no fan of Israeli brand apartheid.  I just don’t expect Jewish Americans to be working for the Israeli government.

drbhelthi ... you might be on the wrong site.  Try http://www.kkk.com, you might find some kindred spirits.

liecatcher, January 7 at 8:28 pm

A clarification that is no clarification at all…

A comparison of similarities can highlight dissimilarities. 
A comparison of events with a basically similar etiology, in
which historically significant entities were involved, is
standard in literature.  Similarly, nazi-type propagandists
among allegedly “jewish” folk display the similarity of
scapegoating any and all who purvey accurate information that
disagrees with their screed behavior and screed propaganda.
The more intelligent, perhaps dishonest, among them, post an
occasional comment, that includes at least quasi-accurate
information, attempting to conceal their basic inclination.
The technique is perceived by careful readers, certainly by
folk who have written documentation.

The NAZI movement employed the technique of scapegoating with
finality, a basic technique of the allegedly “israeli”
religion. This “religion” was in existence prior to the
crossing of the Austrian-German border into Bavaria of one,
Adolf Hitler. Thus, credit or debit for this modality of
“quieting perceived resistance” is not accurately assigned to
either Adolf Hitler, or the NAZI movement.

The tragedy that someone has termed the “holocaust,” is
redundantly cast before the eyes of the world in “jewish
controlled” printed media and television, every week or so,
in some manner. This is an excellent propagandistic tool for
reinforcing the guilt of the progeny of the folk allegedly
responsible for the “holocaust.” This guilt-reminder was very
effectively used by the US presidential occupant two months
ago via his visit with the German chancellor. Marching to
“the memorial”, with full entourage, led by the alleged
president of one of the nations that stopped the NAZI
movement in Europe? Sixty-five years ago, already. An alleged
US president reported by indigenous Kenyans to have been born
in their land.

All such propaganda, in spite of the fact that, not the
guilty but rather, the progeny of the guilty in Germany has
provided reparations to “jewish folk” for over thirty years.
Led by the occupant of the US presidency who currently
continues the repetition of a similar, NAZI-type activity in
countries that have not attacked the USA and which had no
plans to attack the USA? Conducting genocidal activities in
non-threatening countries, while one alleged “nation” has
conducted more than one attack on the USA, with impunity.
Which alleged “nation” receives a daily stipend from the US
treasury to the tune of millions of US dollars?  While the
NAZI-type leadership of this alleged “nation” continues to
steal the land of its brothers, while murdering its women and
children? While a few NAZI-type leaders among this folk
continue to hood-wink the vast majority of this folk?

Such propaganda under the guise of democracy? Which legally-
elected leader of any of the independent countries under
seige, by the US or UN, requested “democracy”?  Does either of
these countries have a legally-elected leader, or simply a
leader-imposter implanted with CIA Black-Hole monies?  A
“leader” who cooperates in genociding his own folk while
continuing the war machine for the US military-industrial
consortium. Many “hitler-types” have dotted history, and
continue to make headlines, not for the evil they do, but
rather for their alleged “advances”???  Consider how one
Adolf Hitler propagandized Germany.  Consider how “copies”
have propagandized “israel,” the US, the western world, the
near-eastern world. Consider how this type continues genocide
and re-population of nations, under whatever propagandistic, religious guise!

Just to be clear: if it were, say, Australian agents
that were dumping hundreds of millions into bribing,
blackmailing and otherwise controlling our
government, then I would post a long list of
Australians here. If it were Australia that we
senselessly propped up, causing a quarter of the
world’s population to despise us for it, it would be
the undo influence of Australia that I would be
concerned about. If Australians owned more than three
quarters of our media and the best part of our
financial institutions then I’d be outing
Australians. But I still wouldn’t argue for toss’n
Australians on the Barby. I hate racism.

But, this is what racism is:

ONLY Israel gets to have under 2% of our population
yet can completely dominate our government, media,
and finances.

ONLY Israel gets to be a nation, a race, a religion,
or a culture, as it sees convenient. Outing Zionist
Ashkanazis criminals is not a racial slur. Facts are
just facts. They are criminals and they are
Ashkanazis. There is a correlation and it is not a
“judgement” and it is not “subjective”.

ONLY Israel gets to have a couple hundred nukes and
god knows how many other such nasties, while shunning
the IAEA and NPT with impunity

ONLY Israel gets to do long-term terrorism and
genocide beneath the protection of our much over-worn
UN veto

ONLY Israel gets to attack a US warship, killing our
sailors, with not even a rebuke

ONLY Israel gets to tax our food and spend the
proceeds on war (the Jewish Excise Taxes is NOT a
canard!)

If fully 20 or even 40 percent of us were Jewish, the
power and influence accorded to that “Race” (whatever
“race”, it just HAPPENS to be that one) is still disturbingly disproportionate!!! BUT UNDER 2%? Give
me a break. This THIRTY-FOLD dis-proportionality is
OK? No it isn’t—it is racism. How did 2% get this
much money and power? Racism. Call it reverse racism,
racial nepotism, whatever you want. Whatever it is,
it’s not kosher with me and it needs to be
understood. I’ve said it a hundred times if I’ve said
it once: if we leave this conversation to the
racists, then the racists will have their day, and
people will get killed en mass again. All my primary
references on these matters are Jews. I get my info
about Jews from Jews. Period. And no, that does not
make them “self-hating” any more than it makes me
“anti-semitic”. Need I even remind people that the
Palestinians are Semites and Ashkenazim are very much
not?

How can carrying out war crimes, including genocide
against the Palestinians, nuke-hording, co-opting our
entire foreign policy, our wealth and our mass media
go unmentioned! That is racism! No other group has
this influence, or even a tiny fraction of it. And we
are supposed to just not notice that? WTF? How much
more racist than that stupid notion can it get? Ten
years ago there were so few willing to speak of these
matters that the ADL could savagely pick us off 1 by
1. Now, too many people are talking. And it’s about
time. We have to diffuse this issue (and make MANY
arrests) before the extreme right diffuses it their
way under some racist demagogue that calls for Jewish
blood. Their way will be a murderous and unthinking
way. They will not discern between the small number
of Jews doing all of this mischief and mayhem vs. the
large number that are either against Zionism and
genocide or simply ignorant of the truth. Whereas I
do discern that. We don’t have forever to lance this
boil, and if we don’t then one day it will explode
and there will much innocent blood spilled.

If a “race” (or ethnicity, or religion, or foreign
nationality, take your pick!) with under 2% of the
population can OWN us at home and abroad, then answer
me this: what is Representation by Population? and do
we have it? Is this or is this not supposed to be a
representative democracy? If so, then WTF has happened here? UNDER TWO PERCENT! Think, people!

TO ardee:
Thanks for asking for a clarification of my
statement:

” Fortunately we can be sure of Jeremiah
Wright & his followers beliefs.”

With a church name like: Trinity United Church of
Christ,
& over 8500 members, it’s unlikely to find any non-
Christians
there. As for the specific beliefs of that
denomination versus
other Church of Christ Churches, I confess, I don’t
know what the
differences are. A CofC preacher told me two things
about
his belief system. The first was that there was no
need for
me to pray to God because his was the only real
Church.
The second thing was that the reason he didn’t allow
music
was because his interpretation of :
“Raise a joyful voice unto the lord”, meant voices
only.

It’s generally accepted by those scholars who
researched
the SKULL & BONES,aka,THE BROTHERHOOD OF DEATH,
that they are SATANISTS.

What?  The Jews?? Again???

I sometimes wonder if the likes of “drbhelthi” are real people or just troublemakers. 

An anti-semitic screed which manages to juxtapose Hitler with Jewish leadership, JFK’s murder with Jesus’, and to trip over a dozen trigger words in 2 paragraphs (“murder [of Jesus]”, “Federal Reserve”, “AIPAC”, “Final Option [not Solution?]”, etc.).  ... quite an effort.

liecatcher, January 6 at 9:21 am

As to Jeremiah Wright, I support his “beliefs” while I would guess that you seek to distort them.

Researchers have amassed abundant information to prove that the official version of the JFK murder is fabricated. Various former insiders have revealed that Lee Harvey Oswald was a long-time, faithful agent of the CIA. Is it a wonder that hitler-types among jewish leadership employ identical methods in order to reinforce their false propaganda, and attack historians such as Schlomo Zand or Sand? 

All their false propaganda, not just some of it.

From events prior to Jesus of Nazareth, to His murder, to the falsification of following events, to their infiltration of the Federal Reserve and banking institutions in the western world, to the PR machine that governs AIPAC, to the scapegoating of all persons who support historical accuracy, and in a few cases the “final option” offered by CIA/MOSSAD. Why would the murderers of Jesus of Nazareth want the true story revealed? Or, any story that is factual that does not reinforce their fraudulent propaganda?

Inherit the Wind,
>>Try googling “scapegoat” before you sneak around the idea that Hitler’s anti-semitism was due to Jews actually BEING a problem for Germany<<

WTF??  Maybe I need to practice the art of communication more.  Yes, Hitler used Jews as a scapegoat.  I have no idea where you are getting the idea I think or in anyway promote the idea that Jews were a problem for Germany!!  Try reading what I posted again.  My point was that if people had had an idea Hitler might set up extermination camps due to “his perceived problem” then maybe they would have resisted his takeover of Germany.  Geeessh!  And my point was also to ask DieDaily just what he would propose for “his perceived problem” for the same reason.  To get an understanding of his specific agenda.

It would just seem to me that a list that excludes, say, Cheney & Bush is not a list of criminals it is an exercise in racial profiling.

If you honestly believe that everyone in that list is an Israeli operative some proof would be good as a minimum.  If, as it appears, you’ve simply listed every Jew you can think of in government then that is McCarthyism with a slight (very slight) twist.

To Inherit The Wind, January 6 at 9:23 am

Hey Inherit The Wind:

Before you tar, feather, & tatoo someone as a nazi,
a Jew hater, or a fascist, you should consider the facts
more carefully. Neither I or DieDaily is not a Jew hater. However,
he does consider ZIONISTS to be the
scum of the earth, the lowest of the low, & truly
believes that Israel owns & operates the U.S.,
& other provinces as well, & is entitled to his
opinion. That now infamous list he prepared,IMO,
is absolutely a list of evil & despicable miscreant
fascist elitists who happen to be Jews,
with or without dual citizenship, whose actions have
destroyed America. Henry Kissinger
never lost his accent & may be one of those prouder
of being a German, & could be the poster
child of a fascist & is a prime mover toward
globiiization.

“... Vienna and Munich were hotbeds of anti-semitism
long before Hitler arose and that’s where Hitler grew
up.”,

and permit me to add, a hotbed of fascism as well, &
fascism & scapegoatism go together like enslavement &
gas chambers. An Austrian Governor who married a
Democrat destroyed California, while a half black
non-Jew
in the W.H. who worshiped at the same altars as
Jeramiah Wright & the Chicago School of Economics
gang is
completing the destruction of America.

What the KKK, THE ARYAN BROTHERHOOD, & THE WHITE
SUPREMICISTS have in common is that each member is a
walking recruiting manikin with enough visible tatoos
to get the message across. Like a push-up bra with
cleavage,
it’s an attention getter. On the other hand, the
satanic fascists of the Skull & Bones aka The
Brotherhood of Death,  thrive on secrecy. Conspiracy
or not, their actions overrule their verbal
obfuscations.

Glider:
Give me a BREAK! It’s not like Hitler’s appeal hasn’t been analyzed a gazillion times already. Perhaps YOU need to review your history. 

Try googling “scapegoat” before you sneak around the idea that Hitler’s anti-semitism was due to Jews actually BEING a problem for Germany.  They weren’t. They were the MOST integrated of any Jewish community in Europe, thinking of themselves as Germans first, and Jews second, and having dropped Yiddish in favor of German as their home language.

But Vienna and Munich were hotbeds of anti-semitism long before Hitler arose and that’s where Hitler grew up.

There are lots of monsters through history—Genghis Khan once had a city of 160,000 slaughtered—every soul. Genocide without modern killing technology. Yes, he had a genius for military conquest…but did he actually IMPROVE the lives of ANYONE he conquered—or did he just impoverish them?

In Russia the old Communists are trying to rehabilitate Stalin while the Church has been trying to rehabilitate the Tsars—but NEITHER embraces democratic rule.

So?

To ardee, January 6 at 8:36 am

Hey ardee:

Maybe the Bush Crime Family, the Rockefellers, McCain, Cheney, & Jimmy Carter, who just hung Obama’s
effigy in Georgia, are hiding the fact that they
are stealth Israeli agents & aren’t really
Christians. Fortunately we can be sure of Jeremiah
Wright & his followers beliefs.

DieDaily, January 5 at 11:50 am

“I have in my hand a list of of two thousand communists in the military and in our school system.” Senator Joseph McCarthy

Are you really comfortable in said company?

One of the lessons of history is that evil will come attractively packaged.  So when I said earlier that Hitler was popular with the German people that is an essential point to remember.  If you paint him 100% evil you will not learn to identify the next evil demagogue.  This history lesson should teach one the necessity to read between the lines.  So when Hitler was obviously anti-semitic one should of asked/demanded/surmised what he was proposing as a solution to the problem he perceived.  To understand politicians and demagogues it is essential to get at the specific mechanisms they propose to address their speech demagoguery.

DBM, January 5 at 7:12 pm #

I’ve no doubt the NSA has a much longer list of progressives somewhere ...
*******************************************

You are too kind.  It’s Hitleresque.  Our own house nazis are “outing Jews”, claiming Jews control our government and run our country.

Why don’t Die and LieSpreader just tattoo a swastika on their foreheads like Charles Manson?

Not really a comment on the influence of Israel ... but that list certainly appears a bit McCarthyesque.

Unless you have some specific crimes to apply to everyone on the list it is pretty distasteful.

I’ve no doubt the NSA has a much longer list of progressives somewhere ...

To DieDaily, January 5 at 11:50

List of Jews / Israeli agents in the wood pile.

Well done !!!

There is enough evil on that list to dry up Niagara
Falls.

Now which other provinces does Israel control besides
the U.S.?

Inherit The Wind, January 5 at 9:18 am:
’... [ financial meltdown ] ... Of COURSE it was made to happen! But it wasn’t an “inside job”—it was out there for EVERYONE to see.  You just had to look.

As soon as Bush instituted his irresponsible tax cuts in the SUMMER of 2001, I said “Uh-Oh—he’s going to take us back into deficit spending”. And he did, even before 9/11. ...’

The peculiar financial, especially monetary, policies of the government which led to the recent crash go back at least to 1987, when the government offered to lend specialists at the New York Stock Exchange all the money they needed to stop the crash which was developing at that time.  This was freshly printed money, so to speak, and the credit resulting from the promise to print more.  (There may have been prior instances of that sort of thing, but I am not aware of them.)

The result of this action was to reinflate and continue the inflation of equities prices and pretty soon of real estate prices as well.  As long as this funny money could be kept out of the hands of ordinary people, whose economy is labor-based rather than credit-based, the CPI wouldn’t move much, and the Chinese and others could be conned into continuing to lend (real) money to the U.S.

Inevitably, since a large portion of the money now in use is quasi-fictional, there are going to be periodic blowouts and deflations.  However, no politician is going to put the U.S. on the kind of spartan regimen that would be necessary to get off this primrose path.  Instead, Mr. O has continued the practices of Mr. B and his predecessors.  The game will end only when bankruptcy occurs and is recognized.

There is no “inside job” here.  It is all out in the open.

Hey DieDaily

You really are missing your sleep.
It was liecatcher who asked about the Israeli agents in
the wood pile after my comments about Webster G.
Tarpley.

Hey Inherit The Wind
“Conspiracy” “Inside Job” implies covert action. The
actions were blatant, overt,
and there for EVERYONE to see.  Putting on blinders
didn’t make it covert.

The conspiracy is manipulation of the cost of living
higher while driving wages lower,
forcing people to either max out their credit cards
or tap into their home equity, or
both, just to maintain their current standard of
living, and then raising the interest
rates.
The healthcare hoax is another example of a
conspiracy in which the people are
convinced that:
health can be purchased in a hospital or pharmacy
they will live longer with “health” insurance than
without it.
The reality is that health is determined by
lifestyle.
Alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, gluttony, etc.
The reality is that MIPIC,MEDICAL INSURANCE
PHARMACEUTICAL
INDUSTRIAL CONSPIRACY kills over one million people
each year.
If you have time, you might want to Google:
“Medical system is leading cause of death and injury
in US”

ITW, sorry, I should always proof-read, I see errors already, (dual citizen should have been removed, “last week” near bottom removed)...eyes blurring…brain turning to much…sleeping now…

Inherit the wind said “Could still use more info on the Israeli agents in the wood pile.”

First, those which have had real power in the last 5 years (first list is mostly or only dual citizens to my knowledge)
*Attorney General - Michael Mukasey
*Head of Homeland Security - Michael Chertoff
*Chairman Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board - Richard Perle
*Deputy Defense Secretary (Former) - Paul Wolfowitz
*Under Secretary of Defense - Douglas Feith
*National Security Council Advisor - Elliott Abrams
*Vice President Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff (Former) - “Scooter” Libby
*White House Deputy Chief of Staff - Joshua Bolten
*Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs - Marc Grossman
*Director of Policy Planning at the State Department - Richard Haass
*U.S. Trade Representative (Cabinet-level Position) - Robert Zoellick
*Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board - James Schlesinger
*UN Representative (Former) - John Bolton
*Under Secretary for Arms Control - David Wurmser
*Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board - Eliot Cohen
*Senior Advisor to the President - Steve Goldsmith
*Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary - Christopher Gersten
*Assistant Secretary of State - Lincoln Bloomfield
*Deputy Assistant to the President - Jay Lefkowitz
*White House Political Director - Ken Melman
*National Security Study Group - Edward Luttwak
*Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board - Kenneth Adelman
*Defense Intelligence Agency Analyst (Former) - Lawrence (Larry) Franklin
*National Security Council Advisor - Robert Satloff
*President Export-Import Bank U.S. - Mel Sembler
*Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for *Children and Families - Christopher Gersten
*Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban *Development for Public Affairs - Mark Weinberger
*White House Speechwriter - David Frum
*White House Spokesman (Former) - Ari Fleischer
*Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board - Henry Kissinger
*Deputy Secretary of Commerce - Samuel Bodman
*Under Secretary of State for Management - Bonnie Cohen

Now, currently under Obama
*Chief of Staff - RAHM IMANUEL, the most powerful man in American Politics! (as opposed to in America)

I’m not including congressmen or senators Joe Lieberman and so forth, again, not nearly enough space. But last here, is the list of current Jewish power players (majority are not actual dual citizens) under Obama not mentioned in the list above:

*David Axelrod – Special Adviser to the President
*Jared Bernstein – Chief Economist and Economic Policy Adviser to the Vice President
*Bernanke, Kohn, Warsh, and Kroszner - Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve (Fred Mishkin still influential, Daniel Tarullo too)
*Tim Geithner – Treasury Secretary
*Gary Gensler – Chair of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission
*Elena Kagan – Solicitor General
*Sally Katzen – Legal adviser to Obama-Biden
*Eric Lander & Harold E. Varmus – Co-Chairs of the President’s Council of Advisers on Science/Technology
*Jacob Lew & James Steinberg – Deputy Secretaries of State (only H. Clinton outranks)
*Ellen Moran – White House Director of Communications
*Peter Orszag – Director of the Office of Management and Budget
*Penny Pritzker – Obama’s National Finance Chair (billionaire!!!)
*Robert Reich, Robert Rubin – Economic advisers to Obama-Biden
*Dennis Ross – Ambassador-At-Large (entire) Middle East
*Daniel B. Shapiro – Head of Middle East Desk, National Security Council
*Mary Schapiro – Chair of the Securities and Exchange Commission
*Lawrence (Larry) Summers – Director of the White House National Economic Council
*Mona Sutphen – Deputy White House Chief of Staff; 2nd behind Emanuel

Also, just last week, in order to facilitate the smooth flow of arms and drugs between the US and Israel, Obama appointed:
*Alan Bersin - Director, Customs and Border Protection Agency (Border Czar is Israeli citizen!!)

Phew. No way I’m checking or proofing all that. Errors and typos are mine.

Robert Singer, December 31, 2009 at 12:19 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Capitalism never made sense
***************************************************

Of COURSE it was made to happen! But it wasn’t an “inside job”—it was out there for EVERYONE to see.  You just had to look.

As soon as Bush instituted his irresponsible tax cuts in the SUMMER of 2001, I said “Uh-Oh—he’s going to take us back into deficit spending”. And he did, even before 9/11.

But it began before that, when, as head of the Fed, Alan Greenspan decided that he was going to show Wall Street who was “boss” and started tightening the money supply to DELIBERATELY cause the dot.com bubble to burst.  It was no secret—he said that was his goal.

It took years to happen, longer than I expected as Clinton had left the economy healthier and stronger than we realized.  It took irresponsible spending, tax cuts, a mis-managed war in Afghanistan, an illegal unnecessary (and mis-managed) war in Iraq and constant undermining of even LEGITIMATE regulation.

When we refi’ed our house several years ago, well before the first BLATANT collapse—the sub-prime mess, the brokers tried every trick and slimy act to get us to accept an ARM.  We (both understanding macroeconomics better than bankers) said “No! It’s an old-fashioned fixed-rate mortgage for us!”  And we were right.

“Conspiracy” “Inside Job” implies covert action. The actions were blatant, overt, and there for EVERYONE to see.  Putting on blinders didn’t make it covert.

And we (the American People) voted these crooks in back in 1980, 1984, 1988, 1994, 1996, 1998, 2000, 2002, and 2004.  When we FINALLY voted against them in 2006 and 2008, we got spineless, ball-less wimps who couldn’t even enforce party discipline and REFUSED to stand up to Bush and now, a puny minority in the House and Senate!

No “conspiracy”.  Just gutless stupidity and timidity.

Hey DieDaily:
This is one of your best efforts to shine light to
overcome darkness.
Divide & Conquer.
Hit the mule with a 2 x 4 to get it’s attention:SHOCK
& AWE (“THE SHOCK DOCTRINE, THE RISE OF DISASTER
CAPITALISM” BY NAOMI KLEIN)
“Help me I’ve fallen” or “Help me I’ve been knocked
down”, reaching out.
Hang in there, help is on the way. Do you want
arsenic or cyanide? The choice is yours. The menu is
ours.
Sometimes the parasites kill quickly & when the goal
is long term enslavement, they use chemical /
pharmaceutical addiction.  Wars &  debtor enslavement are quicker.
Without control of the mainstream media brainwashing
& resulting numbing & dumbing to facilitate
& market the deception it would take longer to
achieve enslavement & world domination.
And for the educated who don’t want to be slapped in
the face, they say “turn the other cheek”.
Could still use more info on the Israeli agents in
the wood pile.

Who is unable to perceive the current distress of the USofA
and the entire western world?  Which, has been instituted
largely via the efforts of the Georg Scherff family of
Doerlitszch, SE of Leipzig, with marionnettes of NAZI-ism,
and “cohorts.”  One group of cohorts might improve their
insight by stepping outside the PR propaganda of their
system, to become acquainted with the work of Schlomo Zand,
teacher at Tel Aviv University, who wrote a book, “When and
How Was the Jewish People Invented?”  Incorporating reality
into ones behavior is always helpful.

Who among US agents expects anything other than that which
was awarded to Lee Harvey Oswald, after many years of
faithful service to the CIA?  And who was benefitted by
sacrificing him, while murdering a genuine, born in the USA
American President who tried to improve the USofA and the
freedoms it offers? 
Defrauding Americans and the world with foreign-born
marrionettes “aint where its at“ and which will be shortly
revealed. Think of all the Americans whom your co-workers
have “quietened” because “handlers” said they either knew too
much, or feared they would become honest like Chip Tatum. 

Does your behavior serve the interests of freedom, or the
NAZI satanism that destroys?  The same goes for all elected
representatives in the congress of the USofA.  It is time for
you to serve the folk you represent, not the stooges who
intimidate you to do their bidding, who bribe you and do
illegal favors for you. 

When the spirit departs the body, it departs without earthly
power and wealth.

(continued from below) ...illusion of choice. The choice is designed to divert our attention from our enslavement. They do not give a damn whether we are stupid enough to incrementally enlarge the state via the left or right path. We can socialize or corporatize ourselves out of our rights. They don’t care. The whole paradigm is at their service. Choose left, choose right, they still win and either the state and/or the corporate shadow state enlarges and consumes. What kind of choice is this?

De-claw the government, de-fang the corporations. This can not be done by either by the right or left, as I should is historically obvious by now! We can do it only be rejecting both paths, and reinvigorating the mechanisms that used to allow the people themselves to control the government and be almost utterly left alone by it as desired. The party system therefore must go. I’ve not heard anyone seriously propose that party-based candidates are responsive to their constituents! Maybe a few out of a few hundred are at most!!!

Is this more clear? I don’t want to be slapped in the face. I am not comforted by the knowledge that it was the left hand rather than the right hand doing the slapping.

One more thought experiment: how many people have been killed by governments and government contractors in the last 100 years? How many by entities and parties not associated with governments or seeking to become the government?

(I get about 550 million killed by governments, and about 100 thousand by non-governmental agencies and individuals. Yet still all this state-worship. Fact is, free peoples don’t make war. It takes clans, tribes, nationalities, whatever. All these are false dichotomies. There are only humans. In your dichotomy, Rightists are inferior to Leftists, so they must be fought, they are somehow lesser people in your mind, less moral, less wise. “They” feel the same about you. Once both of you transcend you can celebrate your differences. Since the state will not have the power to mess with either of you, you will no longer have to debate the matter of in what manner the state should be messing with things.)

JDmysticDJ, I dearly want to make it clear to all and I think our survival depends on the unitary dialectic continuing to gain ground virally. I can best answer you through your own points, for they contain all the keys already:

“Is it the terms that bother you? Would you prefer liberal/conservative…red/blue…or some other terminology? If there is no dichotomy in historical events, what were all these wars about? Modern man has insisted on rationales for war; rationales that were concerned with dichotomies.”

ANSWER: You have NAILED it my friend. Wars depend on dichotomies. No I don’t prefer those other dichotomous terms. The only scale I regard as valuable is voluntary vs. mandatory (i.e. freedom vs. statism) because it’s an absolute scale that can be tested.

“Where is advocacy for universal health care coming from? ...majority of criticisms of war and empire coming from? ...how about the criticisms of corporatism? Define your terms, and then the analysis of current events and history can continue.”
ANSWER: During Clinton’s presidency 75% of dems favoured overhaul of health-care, 85% of reps. This has been extensively discussed in the “Demonizing Dean…” article on this site. The GOP is always opposed by the other fake party, and there is no evidence for either side’s consistency. Wilson (WWI) FDR (WWII) Truman (Korea) and Kennedy/LBJ (Vietnam) were ALL democrats. Obama (WWIII) is a democrat and, objectively speaking, the greatest corporate agent and warlike president yet, embracing our new extremes of torture, rendition, preemptive attack doctrine, and civil rights erosion with zeal, albeit elegant zeal under left cover (which is why it is so important to remove all left and right cover). These are my terms as pertain to corporatism and war. No cabinet has ever had this many lobbyists, CFR, TLC, or Israeli agents. None has had more Goldman Sachs associates. Simple research. These are objective numbers. I’ll put money on them.

“Regarding the Pirates, there was dichotomy there. One was red and one was blue. Considering all the screwing that was going on, I’m sure that red and blue did see a dichotomy.”
ANSWER: No, there was a PERCEIVED dichotomy there. The pirates, remember, were one group, that was the whole point. The public was duped into the age old great game of divide and conquer. The message of the story was predicated on no actual dichotomy existing, just as it does not exist in reality today.

“As history has shown, mankind has been capable of bad government. Why is a dichotomy not possible? I would suppose it would just be a matter of making the most rational choices. Choices require choosing between dichotomies. Making correct choices would require identifying the more positive of two dichotomies. Distinguishing between dichotomies becomes very important.”
ANSWER: No rational choice can be made from within the confines of a false dichotomy. What would have happened in the Pirate story, I ask you, if the public reaction had been: “Hey guys, both these groups are pirates! WTH are we fighting for? Is there really a choice being given us here? Isn’t the only choice that really exists between distributed freedom and centralized statism? Why don’t we drop these stupid flags, imprison this very small number of pirates, and then go home an behave according to our own morality in our own communities. And let us never, ever, mess with one another again!”

The idea that we must choose between two polar ideas that are both lateral to our best interests, not forward or back with respect to them (like statism vs. freedom is) is the PRIMARY CONTROL MECHANISM USED BY THE LEFT-RIGHT-TRANSCENDENT ELITES. It is called the Hegelian Dialectic. It goes like this (aka the pirate story).

1. The controllers trot out a manufactured problem (KABOOM!)
2. We provide the reaction (help us!)
3. They offer the a solution (more control)

But the solution contains the illusion of c

Diedaily

I’m having trouble with your dialectic. It’s not that I disagree or agree, it’s that I’m having trouble interpreting it; specifically your denial of dichotomy between the right and left.

Is it the terms that bother you? Would you prefer liberal/conservative, socialist/fascist, democrat/republican, red/blue right/wrong or some other terminology? If there is no dichotomy in historical events, what were all these wars about? Modern man has insisted on rationales for war; rationales that were concerned with dichotomies.

Where is advocacy for universal health care coming from? Aside from the anomalies, where are the majority of criticisms of war and empire coming from? Disregarding opportunist criticism; how about the criticisms of corporatism? Define your terms, and then the analysis of current events and history can continue.

Regarding the Pirates, there was dichotomy there. One was red and one was blue. Considering all the screwing that was going on, I’m sure that red and blue did see a dichotomy.

I fear that anarcho-syndicalism would lead to dichotomies between groups; tribalism, seperatism verses communialism, aggressors and victims, predators and prey.
 
As history has shown, mankind has been capable of bad government. Why is a dichotomy not possible? I would suppose it would just be a matter of making the most rational choices. Choices require choosing between dichotomies. Making correct choices would require identifying the more positive of two dichotomies. Distinguishing between dichotomies becomes very important.

I believe that history provides an excellent lesson in choosing between dichotomies, and that the future can only be improved by learning from the poor choices so evident in history.

The essence of democracy is making choices. It’s a matter of the people being able to identify and make the correct choices in order to overcome tyranical forces.

Hey DieDaily:
I was on my way to youtube to watch,listen & learn
from WEBSTER G.TARPLEY,
when I spotted your pirate blog. I think the biggest
trap we can fall into is to use
the vocabulary provided by the evil doers. Healthcare
bill is one example since it
has nothing to do with health. Bailout is another,
since in reality it was blatant
robbery. Too big to fail, war on
terror,etc.,etc..Once we profile a miscreant we can
identify his or her lies, regardless of the words
used, whether it’s “read my lips”,
or “I didn’t have sex with that girl”, or ” I didn’t
inhale”. WGT used the false flag
example very effectively, & I like your a pirate is a
pirate is a pirate. The Bush crime
family’s SKULL & BONES FLAG is as real as a
graveyard, even though the name
was changed from BROTHERHOOD OF DEATH. Your scientific
approach works
best, especially when we can see their lips move.

Welcome back DieDaily,

I am enjoying our conversation so I hope you tolerate my jabs.  I don’t know whether you are biased towards a Freedom/Statism model due to Libertarian leanings or whether I am attracted to a more traditional model due to Progressive Leftist leanings.  Whatever,  I agree that the Left/Right paradigm has become confused.  However, there is a real difference between a “Kucinich Government” and a “Palin Government” when both are allowed a fixed intermediate level of statism.  As earlier said your model makes the error of increasing accuracy at the expense of describing less.  For that reason it is not an improvement and does not obey Occam’s Razor.

The problem is that America is not a Democracy by the people.  As made clear by recent events, Democracy by outsized corporations has a major influence that needs accounting.  So just for fun, I would propose the following to describe politicians in America.  Basically 4 scales would be needed to describe a politician.  Left and Right positions would be independently assigned for issues of (1) Income versus those of (2) Individual Rights along traditional lines (see self explanatory examples).  Additional positions on (3) Income Corruption and (4) Rights Corruption complete the model.  In practice political candidates could be described by an Independent Voter Advocate Group with a simple array of indicator dots on scales such that they could be recognized at a glance. ?

Income_Left Wing (statism redistributing wealth from rich to poor)
  e.g. Progressive taxes, Salary Caps, Single Payer
Income_Right Wing (statism reinforcing wealth concentration in the elite)
  e.g. Trickle down economics, Tax Shelters, Sales Tax

Income_Corrupt Wing (statism reinforcing wealth concentration in special interests)
  e.g. Federal Reserve, Military Industrial Complex

Rights_Left Wing (statism guaranteeing individual rights)
  e.g. Pro Choice, Free Speech
Rights _Right Wing (statism restricting individual rights)
  e.g. Abortion Prohibition, Drug Laws, Sexual Behaviour Laws

Rights _Corrupt Wing (statism enhancing special interest rights)
  e.g. Tax Exempt Status of Organized Religion

Anarcissie, glider, such interesting comments. Nice to talk to thinkers. Glider, I didn’t mean to exclude anarchism from my model. Liberal vs. Conservative is a whole other matter, and there are a few different descriptions of these so they can be hard to talk about, but unlike left and right, they are at least a potentially valid scale, since they derive from words with absolute meanings, whereas “left” and “right” are purely relative. I don’t think we should get into Liberal vs. Conservative, because even just talking about how to cut through the center of the left/right model with the idea of freedom vs. statism has already blown Outraged’s gaskets and it would be nice if he were still able to follow some of this.

A person can traverse the whole path from anarchism (an entirely voluntary society) to totalitarianism (entirely involuntary society) without going left or right of center. For instance, suppose you live on an island with fellow anarchists (woo hoo!) and everyone is voluntary about everything they do and do not participate in. Suddenly a boatload of pirates take over the island, grab most of the cash, rape some of the women, and enslave most of the men, inducting one or two into their ranks. Well, you’ve just gone from anarchism to statism the only way possible, by the sword or gun, and left and right didn’t enter into it (since they are fictional). All I’ve been saying is that do we really care if the pirates were leftist or rightist? As far as I can tell, the only difference would be the choice of a red flag vs. a blue flag.

In the real world there are only a tiny number of pirates and a huge number of us mere people. So, how did they conquer us? They did it by making up this nonsense fantasy of left vs. right. Even Outraged should probably be able to see that this was done in order to take our attention away from the real measurement of interest to us, which is “how much freedom do we get?”, but I’ll continue with the pirate analogy to make sure he doesn’t get upset again. Circles and lines are a bit complicated, but everybody, even Outraged, loves a pirate story!

One pirate force in two pirate ships, with two sets of costumes, two flags. One has a red flag full of fake “leftist” pirates, the other a blue flag and fake “rightist” pirates. Each tells us of the evils of the other ship, and we get scared. Each promises to save us from the vagaries of the other half of their force, and we feel relieved. Half of us stupidly pick up red placards and feel a sense of belonging and purpose, while the other half go for blue and feel the same thing. then the pirates sit back and laugh their heads off while WE do the fighting and we do it among ourselves! The red dupes go on and on about the blues and so forth, and every four or eights years the other shipload gets to do most of the f***ing for a while.

Political parties were NOT a feature that our founders had in mind for our political candidates. It would have been, and rightly still is, tantamount to a cartel system. Left and right are COSTUMES. Freedom vs. statism is a palpable, measurable, testable, and objective measurement of the reality.

Outraged,

Peace brother.  I might tend to amend your point and emphasis that Hitler sought to and did suppress any dissenting opinions which of course is totalitarianism.  Apart from our little spat it may be more important now to be aware of the history of the Nazis than at any other time in our history.  In reading through some of the Nazi campaign platforms it is quite amazing how well some of it fits with what one could imagine as a populist platform in today’s political environment.  There was, as one would expect, a widespread well deserved distrust of Wall Street type speculators/financiers/corporations arising from the post 1929 crash that was expressed as a strong pro-worker agenda.  So Hitler exploited some legitimate problems to gain power and then ultimately betrayed and brought ruin to his people and much of the rest of the world (and yes I am underplaying the fact that he was a Anti-Semite nutcase from day one in order to examine other factors).  My initial look back at this period was spurred by Ellen Hodgeson’s Web of Debt who argues for the return to a soveriegn national currency and monetizing our current debt as a way out of our abyss.  She gives many examples of historical precedent for the successful application of this system of which early Nazi Germany is but one.  It is an enlightening read and she keeps away from the nonsense of demonizing Jews for the world’s problems just because they have a strong presence within the banking elite.  As she points out the Jewish people have been the biggest victim of the backlash against the shenanigans perpetrated by this unsavory crew.  I personally could imagine a third party oriented towards the working class but headed by a benevolent leader being a force for good in this country, assuming a third party would ever be possible.  Then again the thought of President “Joe the Plumber” is just plain scary.  So treading carefully here is warranted and it is yet another good reason to study history carefully.

What to do Kulu?  Well, like an individual who stubbornly lives beyond his means, the options decrease and decrease until bad things happen.  The U.S. is not only spending borrowed money they are using it to undermine their own standing in the world and foment enemies.  The options are progressively narrowing.

As for vegetable patches ... I hear there are vegetable patches sprouting (no pun) in Detroit.  I’d hate to think that raging unemployment and deprivation is a prerequisite for that change of lifestyle, but that may prove to be the case.

To Outraged, January 4 at 5:11
Hey Outraged:

To your comment:

“... but not everything is absolutely black or
absolutely white and for me the truth means
something.
  Some insist on painting history to fit an agenda
rather that analyzing what actually happened and
trying to learn from it…”

I say amen !!!

With regard to Hitler & the current fascist wars,
IMO, the most productive & relevant area to pursue is
to
follow the money trail. The same banksters,
GOVERNMENT SACHS, financed Hiitlers rise to power &
both sides of the war. Unlike traditional business
which depends on customers walking in the door,
the MIC,MILITARY INDUSTRIAL CONSPIRACY, makes wars:
ergo the U.S. is the largest arms dealer
in the world, & we the people are paying for it.
Democracy died on December 23, 1913.

DBM. You say; “The main problem for the rest of the world is that the great American consumer base for the world’s products will be lost.” and go on to predict the erosion or collapse of their taxpayer base will precede that of the government - both plausible or even likely scenarios but what is to be done about it? What can be done about it?

Perhaps we need to regress in order to progress, or rather proceed at all, to revert in a calculated way to more sustainable living - our own vegetable patches and all that. We have serious problems to address as a global civilization and only a matter of a few decades to do it.

Step one, and the easiest to address is, in an humane a way as possible, to address the issue of population growth.

Re: glider

Your comment: “Take in the big picture and tell me who is being disingenuous.”

It is not “disingenous” to have a difference of opinion.  SCHOLARS disagree.  It is plausible to consider that you engage one scholar and I another, maybe, maybe not.  I say the “proof is in the pudding”.  You would like to say that FREE FORCED LABOR apparently did nothing to maintain Hitler’s power, I disagree.

Your comment: “This is utter unsubstantiated nonsense.  Hitler was hugely popular amongst the German people due to his early success in returning the country to prosperity.  The later insane dark phase you are talking about was the beginning of the end for the Third Reich.  His totalitarian regime was able to maintain power inspite of the atrocity you cite.”

To be clear, I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT A “later insane dark period” YOU WERE.  I think he lost his marbles somewhere on the way to Oz.  In this same vein, your comment:

“Why is it so hard for you to think that the Germans or any other people would respond in such a way too full employment and a booming economy?  Sorry, but not everything is absolutely black or absolutely white and for me the truth means something.  Some insist on painting history to fit an agenda rather that analyzing what actually happened and trying to learn from it.  To me you are guilty of the exact same phenomena that got Bill Maher fired for pointing out that the 9-11 suicide bombers might not of been the “cowards” as presented by the MSM.”

It is not difficult for me to “think that the Germans or any other people would respond in such a way too full employment and a booming economy?”  Why you sense I believe that or take that stance…. is simply beyond my comprehension.  For the record, I THINK EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE, that’s my worry.

As for Bill Maher, well there’s two ways of looking at everything.  I’ve had my personal disagreements with some of his “epiphanies”... but, as time has elapsed… whether I disagree or agree with his stance…. oh, let’s just say he has his worldview and I have mine.

We could debate Hitler, Mussolini and WWII, truthfully forever.  But the premise I consider MOST prescient at this stage of the game was included in my orginal response to you, from Wiki:

”“The first Nazi concentration camps were greatly expanded in Germany after the Reichstag fire in 1933, and were intended to hold political prisoners and opponents of the regime. They grew rapidly through the 1930s as political opponents and many other groups of people were incarcerated without trial or judicial process. The term was borrowed from the British concentration camps of the Second Anglo-Boer War. Holocaust scholars draw a distinction between concentration camps (described in this article) and extermination camps (described in a separate article), which were camps established for the sole purpose of carrying out the extermination of the Jews of Europe—the Final Solution, Poles – the Lebensraum, Gypsies and other nations. Extermination camps included Belzec, Majdanek, Sobibor, Treblinka, and Auschwitz-Birkenau.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps

The very FIRST thing the Nazi’s/Hitler did was to suppress rational discourse.  Many times you will see this reality marginalized as “dissent”.  However, what Hitler and his minions ADAMANTLY seeked to destroy, was not dissent.  (Aside from the demented, such ones realistically are not “dissenters” as far as the NEEDS of fascism)

What he/they/Hitler/Nazism TRUTHFULLY seeked to destroy was legitimate and rational discourse.  It was the “crowning jewel” if you will, to their/his illegitimacy.

Re: Anarcissie

Your comment: “One of the problems of the Left (as I use the term) is that most people seem to think there is enough or maybe too much freedom and equality and would rather see something else.”

How do you “use the term”?  Since according to you “one of the problems of the left (as you use the term)” is…... that “most people” (btw when you say this, are you speaking of the left or “most people” or do you consider “the left” “most people”).  My premise is that you are distinctly intermixing two separate entities, unless…. you are more specific.

Anyway, you claim that these same “think there is enough or maybe too much freedom and equality and would rather see something else.”

So your position is “enough or too much” equality enamored by the left “as you use the term”.  How do you “use the term” Anarcissie?  And EXACTLY what the hell are you talking about?  Generalities interspersed with specifics at the level you have engaged them are of course, meaningless.  Can you be more specific?

Scary thought Glider ... I doubt we’ll ever know.

Kulu, you may be right about environmental disaster overtaking empire collapse.  It can be argued that the Roman Empire didn’t “end” until the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after World War I (though the Western half of the empire fell 1500 years ealier) ... so this can take a long time.  However, I don’t know what the timetable for environmental collapse is really going to be and I fear that a real “President Palin” (or equivalent if there is such a thing) could lead to a far faster demise.

Interestingly, the main problem for the rest of the world (other than the pain of seeing a people we positively identify with suffer) is that the great American consumer base for the world’s products will be lost.  Given that American corporations are decimating that consumer base themselves the main economic pain may occur faster than the actual collapse.  That is to say, the American government will outlast most American individuals as they both approach financial default.  The loss of taxpayers as American lives implode will (at least briefly) precede the default of the government.

At least those execs and bankers have their money in the Cayman’s where it is safe.  The world’s workers can queue up to serve them cocktails on their tropical retreats after the collapse ...

DBM

I think you have it about right but there is one problem facing the world and hence the US on which space did not allow me to expand…

We live in a finite planet and are rapidly approaching converging constraints on a number of available resources and sinks for our wastes.

A rapidly expanding China, India and so on is going to provide huge competition to the US etc for the limited supply of the material needs that an ever expanding world population requires to comfortably exist.

The demise of America along with the rest of our civilization may therefore happen more quickly than, and regardless of, what America or China may do to arrest the US’s current destructive course.

DBM,
<<I thought the best bet the U.S. had was a politician who could hoodwink the corporate funders by getting elected and then working to the benefit of the country instead of the corporations<<

Yes, and that would take one brave politician today.  Many here think that JFK was that man, and that he was made into an example of what happens when you cross your masters.  I still remember the Greenback inspired Silver Certificates issued at his time suggesting he was butting heads with the Banksters.

...

Fascism (as I define it) is very popular.  It is often called something else.

Thanks for that clarification Anarccissie ... I guess I am a liberal then.  This highlights the challenge of liberalism which is that very few liberals can agree on the optimum balance.  Meanwhile, fascists can be quite clear - state power good ... everything else bad.  Other brands of conservative thought are also seeking balance but it seems the fascists have the microphone at the moment.

kulu,

That’s a pretty good summary of how we see things from DownUnder! 

On your potential ways the empire collapse could be avoided, however, I think there is little chance ...

1. Massive unrest - The U.S. already has the world’s largest prison population (both per capita and in total).  Repression, state surveillance and willingness to crush dissent are growing trends.  Couple that with the complete domination of thought wielded through television and you have a situation which doesn’t lend itself to any organised “unrest”.  More likely is a guided warped “unrest” focused on specific political opponents fomented by political forces through the media (see Birthers, Teabaggers, etc.).  None of that will slow the march to insolvency and mass poverty.

2. Voter revolution - Refer “the complete domination of thought wielded through television”!  He who has the most money to buy the most TV time wins the election.  There was a time when there were acts which could not be explained away and could cost a politician.  Now it seems that torture, murder, kidnapping, racial profiling ... even shooting someone in the face can all be explained away or simply ignored by claiming “National Security” to cut off any investigation.  Couple this with the legal barriers which the two dominant parties have erected to prevent any competition.  As both the main parties are totally dominated by corporate money (refer “He who has the most money ...”), there is little chance of a voter revolt having any impact even if there was one!

3. Contraction - I suppose this one isn’t as much a solution as an outcome.  The contraction will come for sure.  The question is whether it is a gradual managed contraction wherein the country has enough time to pull back its global garrison, cease spending their borrowings on weaponry and get rapacious corporations under control ... or if none of these things happen in time and they have a very sudden contraction which is far more painful.  I expect that Japan and especially China are painfully aware that they have to find other places to invest their surpluses as the U.S. is going to be an increasingly risky investment.  The Chinese have said that their intention is to massively grow their domestic markets and reduce their reliance on exports, if successful this will decrease their exchange surpluses as well.  What is likely is that when they can afford to do so without collapsing their own economy, the Chinese will want to start calling in their American debt so they don’t get left holding nothing when the U.S. economy defaults.

I thought the best bet the U.S. had was a politician who could hoodwink the corporate funders by getting elected and then working to the benefit of the country instead of the corporations.  Unfortunately the most likely looking “electable” candidate is already there ... but Obama is not biting the hands that funded him, he is stiffing his constituents.  The most likely result is that those who want to deal with all these issues will have no-one to vote for and will stay home.  Can you say “President Palin”???

glider, January 3 at 9:47 am:
‘DBM,
DieDaily can correct me but I think he is excluding anarchy from his discussion.  I think the idea is that a “centrist position” has a mix of individualism and statism that gives optimal freedom.  The idea being that full anarchy (zero statism) actually reduces freedom (makes one subject to crime, etc).  If this is the case then you get into a new argument about what that optimal level actually would be.’

You are describing liberalism.  Ostensibly, liberalism paradoxically combines the freedom and equality of anarchism with the authority and power of the state by carefully designing the state so that each citizen has a certain defined area of freedom called his rights, which the state both restricts and defends.  The definition of citizen varies from place to place and time to time; in the late 18th century when Jefferson was writing about men being created equal, the citizen was clearly white males possessing property.  They wanted freedom above and authority below (theirs, over their women, children, slaves, employees, the poor, the savages, and so on) and that was how they worked it out.

However, many people do not particularly want to maximize freedom.  They have many other values which they would like to achieve politically, like security, welfare, justice, public virtue, private wealth, or national power and glory.  One of the problems of the Left (as I use the term) is that most people seem to think there is enough or maybe too much freedom and equality and would rather see something else.

In any case, as Carl Schmitt, the Nazi political philosopher, pointed out (with approval), the claims of the state are inherently totalitarian, which affects the stability of the liberal paradox.

Outraged,
Here are some references for my position.  Take in the big picture and tell me who is being disingenuous.  Be aware that the from 1933 to 1937 unemployment was virtually eliminated and large scale forced labor was begun shortly thereafter.

EARLY FORCED LABOR IN NAZI REGIME

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005180
First concentration camps and incidences of forced labor started in the Winter of 1933. No quantification reported.  As early as 1937, the Nazis increasingly exploited the forced labor of so-called “enemies of the state” for economic gain and to meet labor shortages. By end of 1937, most Jewish males residing in Germany were required to perform forced labor.

START OF POST WAR LARGE SCALE FORCED LABOR IN NAZI REGIME

http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft Word - 6625.pdf
First forced laborers brought to Germany were 100,000 Austrians, after the annexing of Austria in March 1938

PEAK FORCED LABOR IN NAZI REGIME

http://www.zwangsarbeit-archiv.de/en/zwangsarbeit/zwangsarbeit/zwangsarbeit-2/index.html
At the height of the so-called “Ausländereinsatz” (use of foreigners) in August 1944, six million civilians were put in forced labor in the German Reich, most from Poland and the Soviet Union.  In 1944, nearly two million prisoners of war were exploited to work in the German economy.  From 1943, German industry increasingly used concentration camp detainees as forced labor.

Obama didn’t start the rot but continues pushing America along exactly the same path as Bush has done. Worldwide the past decade was probably the the worst in a generation but I fear the one we have just entered will be more of the same, only worse.

I am not from the US but from one of those other 32 nations of the developed world that do still have universal health care. This country, Australia, strives to follow the same misguided path as does America and is cursed with a political system that has also been corrupted by big business money.

Still I have been keeping a close eye on developments in the US and internationally and regret to say that I believe I am witnessing the beginnings of what may be a very rapid decline of an empire - not a benign empire by any means but then what empires are?

Under the leadership of Obama the US continues to expand its military at an alarming rate while ignoring its own population’s woes. And it’s financing all of this using Chinese and Japanese money and that of future generations of Americans. It continues to obstruct meaningful agreement on climate change and to support Israel’s aggression against the Palestinians (little wonder the Arab world and some other Islamic states are reacting as they do). It continues to support dictators (Egypt, Saudi Arabia) or the overthrow of democratically elected governments (Honduras) and to insist on the right to exploit other nation’s resources.

A see a few possible ways that the collapse of the empire may be avoided and the nation brought to its senses so that it begins to apply whatever resources it has left to the betterment of its own people and others:-
a)Massive civil unrest by its citizens. This will probably be met by increasing repression and violence on the part of the state and misreporting by mainstream media so it will be a risky business at best.
b) A voter revolution and a wholesale change in representation in government that leads to a revised system of financing election campaigns and prohibits legislators and senior officials from taking up certain executive or lobbying positions for a number years after leaving government or the legislature. How on earth this might happen I just don’t know.
c) China and Japan etc manage to find other areas to invest their surpluses (or reduce them) so that the US will be forced to contract its empire building expenditure and raise taxes and so begin to live within its mean, ie contract.

Whether there will be enough time for any of this to happen before the world runs out of vital resources or is polluted beyond repair is another matter.

DBM,

DieDaily can correct me but I think he is excluding anarchy from his discussion.  I think the idea is that a “centrist position” has a mix of individualism and statism that gives optimal freedom.  The idea being that full anarchy (zero statism) actually reduces freedom (makes one subject to crime, etc).  If this is the case then you get into a new argument about what that optimal level actually would be.

Response to Outraged (part 2)

MY CURRENT REPLY:
I don’t think we disagree much on what happened here.  For the record, I list the course of events below edited for conciseness from Wiki that is consistent with what I had read long ago.  Violence and intimidation were clearly part of the Nazi rise to power but I certainly agree that got much worse further into their regime.

1) Hitler appointed Chancellor in January 30, 1933.

2) Prior to elections, Reichstag Fire set on February 27, 1933, and Reichstag Fire Decree enacted Feb 28, 1933 to suspend habeas corpus basic rights.  Under the decree, the German Communist Party was suppressed, and its functionaries arrested or murdered.

3) Campaigning continued with Nazis using paramilitary violence, anti-communist hysteria, and the government’s resources for propaganda. On election day, March 6 1933, the NSDAP won with 43.9% of the vote, necessitating a coalition with rival DNVP.

4) Hitler’s government coerced passage of the Enabling Act on March 23, 1933 vesting his cabinet power for four years, which together with the Reichstag Fire Decree, made Hitler’s government a legal dictatorship.

5) On July 14, 1933 the Nazi Party was declared the only legal party in Germany.

By Outraged, January 3 at 3:38 am #

>>Hitler rose to power via propaganda and political manuevering<<

MY INITIAL REPLY:
You make Hitler sound like Obama.  There was more to his takeover and it included violence and exploiting the harsh economic conditions of the times.

>>NO, that is all in YOUR HEAD.  Yes, Hitler and his ilk were VIOLENT and VICIOUS, most of which was instituted after he gained power.  Before that, he selectively attempted to stamp out ALL RATIONAL DISCOURSE.  In this way, he could be (albeit illegitimately) THE voice of “truth”.  Again, yes he did exploit the economic conditions, but he utilized this aspect BY USING PROPANGANDA, just like I said.<<

Response to Outraged (part 1),

MY CURRENT REPLY:
You have gone off on some irrelevant tangents now.  Your original contention, to which I was replying, was that Hitler “MAINTAINED HIS POWER” by exploited forced labor.  You are implying that Hitler would have fallen from power if he had not instituted the forced labor for which he is responsible.  I say that is utter bullshit and that this sort of insanity in fact caused his undoing in the end.  Your response is a complete Red Herring rant (that also conveniently lacks any quantitation regarding degree of implementation versus time frame).  I contend that Hitler initially was a very popular leader with the German people as the result of very successful economic policies that got them out of a devastating economic depression within the first 3 to 4 years of his regime.  Why is it so hard for you to think that the Germans or any other people would respond in such a way too full employment and a booming economy?  Sorry, but not everything is absolutely black or absolutely white and for me the truth means something.  Some insist on painting history to fit an agenda rather that analyzing what actually happened and trying to learn from it.  To me you are guilty of the exact same phenomena that got Bill Maher fired for pointing out that the 9-11 suicide bombers might not of been the “cowards” as presented by the MSM.

YOUR INITIAL CONTENTION
>>he (Hitler) MAINTAINED POWER (my emphasis) by siphoning off the sweat of those he incarcerated by “renting them out” to private industry, of which he “took a cut”<<

MY INITIAL REPLY:
This is utter unsubstantiated nonsense.  Hitler was hugely popular amongst the German people due to his early success in returning the country to prosperity.  The later insane dark phase you are talking about was the beginning of the end for the Third Reich.  His totalitarian regime was able to maintain power inspite of the atrocity you cite.

YOUR COUNTER REPLY:
>>Wrong again.  The “work camps” were initiated EARLY ON.  They were not a part of some supposed “later insane dark phase” as you claim.  From Wiki:

“The first Nazi concentration camps were greatly expanded in Germany after the Reichstag fire in 1933, and were intended to hold political prisoners and opponents of the regime. They grew rapidly through the 1930s as political opponents and many other groups of people were incarcerated without trial or judicial process. The term was borrowed from the British concentration camps of the Second Anglo-Boer War. Holocaust scholars draw a distinction between concentration camps (described in this article) and extermination camps (described in a separate article), which were camps established for the sole purpose of carrying out the extermination of the Jews of Europe—the Final Solution, Poles – the Lebensraum, Gypsies and other nations. Extermination camps included Belzec, Majdanek, Sobibor, Treblinka, and Auschwitz-Birkenau.”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps

So…. why you attempting to protect or qualify Hitler’s tactics?  The fact the “ardee” wishes, “to thank both glider and DieDaily for their contributions to my education on this subject. I think the willingness to offer background for opinions a refreshing and all too lacking trait here.” IMHO, the three of you ought to crack a couple of books regarding Mussolini’s rise to power, Hitler’s rise to power and FASCISM conceptually.  I’ll admit that as the topic goes I couldn’t touch that of the scholars.  But the sad fact is…. the THREE OF YOU make me look and feel like one regarding it, since YOU DON’T KNOW THE FIRST THING.<<

Thank you most all commentators for a remarkably good standard of discourse.  I don’t agree with all of it but there has been some excellent food for thought.  I’m not sure, for instance, that I agree with the Statism v Freedom paradigm (anarchism?) as much as I see the Corporatism v Democracy paradigm.  States can be good (sometimes) or at least better than the lack of civilisation ... but under corporate domination they work against the best interests of small & medium businesses, workers and consumers.

The depth of thinking and analyis of the comments on this thread really put the original article to shame.

Gee…. thanks glider, I wouldn’t have noticed it without you.  Let me elaborate.

From diedaily’s post of January 2 at 12:55 pm.

“My personal solution is to scrap the entire left/right paradigm, regarding it purely as a Jedi mind-trick (or whatever they call the evil Jedi’s, lol).”

As much as I hate “Star Wars” .... okay… I’m good.

”I offer that there is a valid Freedom/Statism paradigm  (LOL… oh, sorry… I forget myself) which is invariably a substantive, unifying (who hates freedom?), telling, and a real measure of some use.”

Can you say that again….  A “freedom/Statism paradigm” .... hmmmmm.  How does that work?  A “freedom/statism paradigm”.... huh????  How does that work?  Wait…. “A FREEDOM/STATISM PARADIGM”...... say what?  Can you elaborate?  Look, if you’ve lost me, well… I gotta tell ya, the majority is scratching their heads behind me.  So for us “head scratchers”.....  Let’s move on.

“It cuts straight from center (where the fake ideas of left and right are not diverged yet) to totalitarianism (where the fake ideas of left and right again merge and are indistinguishable). This is predicated on the idea that you really can’t distinguish left from right in the center, where freedom is maximized, and you really can’t tell left from right at the extremes, where freedom is minimized (many have tried to distinguish Communism from Fascism…unconvincingly).”

Okay…okay… FIRST… explain these PARENTHESIS via quasi PARENTHESIS…. kinda, but not really… or, or, or….say what…?  The quote:  ”(where the fake ideas of left and right are not diverged yet) to totalitarianism (where the fake ideas of left and right again merge and are indistinguishable).”

Sure… uh..huh, and whatever…you betcha, see ya’ round and “have a good one”.... uh hmmmm.  I gotta go feed the cows, children…. owners…. something like that.  See ya’ round.

Ya gotta love the BSers’, well…at least if you find this stuff comical.  What will they THINK UP next…?

Just for kicks…... QUOTE: “the fake ideas of left and right are not diverged yet” AND “the fake ideas of left and right again merge and are indistinguishable”......

Can anyone say GOBBLEDYGOOK?

Next round is on me.  Enjoy.

Re: E.J. Dionne

Quote: “I’m afraid that the past 10 years will be seen as a time when the United States badly lost its way by using our military power carelessly, misunderstanding the real challenges to our long-term security, and pursuing domestic policies that constrained our options for the future while needlessly threatening our prosperity.

I am aware that the previous paragraph is thoroughly controversial,”

Truthfully, I don’t see it as all that “controversial”.... at least to those who’ve taken the time to consider it from a NON-IDEOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE.

Soldier on.

I think, conservatively speaking, the decade will probably be remembered by
Bush’s failed War on Terror shaped by the events of September 11, 2001.  George
W’s War On Terror will and is remembered as a STRATEGIC BLUNDER—-  just like
the financial collapse is remembered as.  It might be seen as the decade that also
forever tarnished America’s image around the world which was already in
question.  Well now THE CAT’S OUTTA THE BOX!  With Bush’s inconspicuous War
On Terror not to mention the expose of utter greed because the financial collapse
towards the close of the decade.  There’s no doubt as to the real agendas of
certain developed nations.  It’s up to Obama now to regain some thread of dignity
of the United States politics if there is any left.  He has one heck of a job to do. 
Meanwhile it seems like there’s nothing the people can do but wait and see!!!

DieDaily
>>My personal solution is to scrap the entire left/right paradigm, regarding it purely as a Jedi mind-trick…. I offer that there is a valid Freedom/Statism paradigm which is invariably a substantive, unifying (who hates freedom?), telling, and a real measure of some use. It cuts straight from center ... to totalitarianism ... This is predicated on the idea that you really can’t distinguish left from right in the center, where freedom is maximized, and you really can’t tell left from right at the extremes, where freedom is minimized .....Think big circle, centrism at bottom, totalitarianism at top, leftism and rightism are the paths leading up and around the circle, whereas my Freedom/Statist axis ignores the circle and goes straight up the center between free-centrism and slave-totalitarianism. I’m all about the free/slave aspect. The left/right aspect signifies nothing useful to me.<<

IMO the fault of your suggested paradigm is in increasing “accuracy” by increasing “vagueness”.  The great manipulative tool of the politician is the rhetorical “lofty generality” that is crafted to sound appealing to all.  This is the cloaking device that needs to be stripped away from the manipulators.  Politicians need to be forced to elaborate specific mechanisms for accomplishing goals (and be held accountable for them).

You made a significant effort to point out how easy it is for a “corporatist” to cloak his agenda in a leftist platform.  A recent comment has been made (http://www.bestcyrano.org/?p=4365) that the one favor Obama has done for the nation is to make his duplicity obvious to all.  This relates to my point, because what revealed Obama as a manipulator, were the specific proposals he made to win the primaries, that are now easily identified as lies.  Now President Obama has retreated entirely into the manipulator’s sactuary of the “lofty generality”.

By Outraged, January 2 at 6:39 am #
>>Hitler rose to power via propaganda and political manuevering<<

You make Hitler sound like Obama.  There was more to his takeover and it included violence and exploiting the harsh economic conditions of the times.

NO, that is all in YOUR HEAD.  Yes, Hitler and his ilk were VIOLENT and VICIOUS, most of which was instituted after he gained power.  Before that, he selectively attempted to stamp out ALL RATIONAL DISCOURSE.  In this way, he could be (albeit illegitimately) THE voice of “truth”.  Again, yes he did exploit the economic conditions, but he utilized this aspect BY USING PROPANGANDA, just like I said.

>>he maintained power by siphoning off the sweat of those he incarcerated by “renting them out” to private industry, of which he “took a cut”<<

This is utter unsubstantiated nonsense.  Hitler was hugely popular amongst the German people due to his early success in returning the country to prosperity.  The later insane dark phase you are talking about was the beginning of the end for the Third Reich.  His totalitarian regime was able to maintain power inspite of the atrocity you cite.

Wrong again.  The “work camps” were initiated EARLY ON.  They were not a part of some supposed “later insane dark phase” as you claim.  From Wiki:

“The first Nazi concentration camps were greatly expanded in Germany after the Reichstag fire in 1933, and were intended to hold political prisoners and opponents of the regime. They grew rapidly through the 1930s as political opponents and many other groups of people were incarcerated without trial or judicial process. The term was borrowed from the British concentration camps of the Second Anglo-Boer War. Holocaust scholars draw a distinction between concentration camps (described in this article) and extermination camps (described in a separate article), which were camps established for the sole purpose of carrying out the extermination of the Jews of Europe—the Final Solution, Poles – the Lebensraum, Gypsies and other nations. Extermination camps included Belzec, Majdanek, Sobibor, Treblinka, and Auschwitz-Birkenau.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps

So…. why you attempting to protect or qualify Hitler’s tactics?  The fact the “ardee” wishes, “to thank both glider and DieDaily for their contributions to my education on this subject. I think the willingness to offer background for opinions a refreshing and all too lacking trait here.”

IMHO, the three of you ought to crack a couple of books regarding Mussolini’s rise to power, Hitler’s rise to power and FASCISM conceptually.  I’ll admit that as the topic goes I couldn’t touch that of the scholars.  But the sad fact is…. the THREE OF YOU make me look and feel like one regarding it, since YOU DON’T KNOW THE FIRST THING.

Anarcissie, absolutely right. And we could try and return the meaning of gay to happy and jovial, but would that be worth it? We could restore the meaning of Epicurean to it’s philosophical denotation from its playboy connotation. We could even revert to ancient languages, lol. You are certainly right, but I think the left/right paradigm should just be relegated to the flames. Maybe in two generations or so the words could become useful again. As arbitrary as they are, they could be mapped onto anything. There is no connotation that is useful, such as forward vs. backward. I wouldn’t mind being called a forwardist! But a leftist? Blech. A rightist? Super-blech!

DieDaily—as you probably know, the original Left/Right polarity was precisely a difference between a preference for freedom and a preference for authority.  I think the words can still be used in this way, although it is difficult since they have both been often reappropriated.  Attempting to resurrect the original usage might lead to some interesting and even enlightening arguments.

kuchnich only needs a Brain 1st before he can run effectively and he needs to lose the Alfred E Newman look as well

Corporate interests trump citizen interests

Citizens willingly give up rights and remain apathetic

The world is passing us by as China “stands on the
shoulders of giants”

Kucinich would need an enormous progressive base and
the reactionary right wing has to leave.

barak inherited a mess that was caused by him and his party. Thank goodness the great unwashed can now see that a quota president just like a quota doctor (Jackson’s MD) are bad for society.
Better to make sure that future candidates have a modicum of experience or at least held a job and showed up on time

liecatcher, yeah I know all about project paper-clip and the Bush families massive and ongoing ties with living, breathing Nazis and Nazism. I hope my post below to glider makes it clear that I’m not big into the Obama/Hitler comparisons. Just illustrating that fascist/corporatists (“right-wing” by the fake paradigm) can hide behind left cover with absolute ease like Obama did. See below where I respond to glider having totally busted my *ss!

Oh, glider, cr*p, am I ever busted. I got to those two first links via studying Fredric Wertham, a definitely non-Larouchian, non right-wing dude I found out about through Bill Moyers. In my zeal to avoid LPAC at all costs, I accidentally CEC’d myself. It was the Citizens Election Committee of AUSTRALIA that got me! Who f***ing knew there were Larouchians Down Under! Argh! This has made me go back and re-evaluate those links with a fine tooth comb. Thankfully, the article is through and through Fredric Wertham in origin and is very much an accurate paraphrase of his work and that of the equally non-Larouchian, non-righty Robert Jay Lifton. It appears that there are no other sources of info than these two authors, and certainly no “original Larouchian thoughts”, as it were, other than perhaps some of the proposed mappings of the historical facts onto the present political landscape which are opinions and not facts, and I hope you will forgive those as immaterial to my argument (see next para). But yes I am chagrined! That said, I can’t find fault with the facts and conclusions of Wertham and Lifton as they pertain to the Nazis, and upon which I’ve built my arguments. But still, dang it! Thanks for the heads up on that. If I do this again I’ll source straight to those Authors.

To answer your second question about Obama, we seem to be in complete agreement. I do not seek to draw any non-superficial parallels between Obama and Hitler per se, heck no! The whole exposition is an attempt on my part to demonstrate that rightist agendas can use left cover (Hitler and Obama share this big, big, big-time, but I don’t want to push it one inch further than that because for one thing Hitler was effective if nothing else and Obama is as lame a duck as one could ever imagine), and thus that leftists are easy targets for rightists that use leftist language. Just look at the now dead and buried peace movement, for and example. Liberals are now cool with mass bombardment of other races and religions. Very cool with it. So cool with it that the peace movement is almost utterly silent. This was ONLY possible because they think “well, I’m on the left because I say I am, and my leader is on the left because he says he is, so whatever he’s doing is probably OK since we both say its on the left.” Just like Hitler’s unionist pleadings to the working class.

My personal solution is to scrap the entire left/right paradigm, regarding it purely as a Jedi mind-trick (or whatever they call the evil Jedi’s, lol). I offer that there is a valid Freedom/Statism paradigm which is invariably a substantive, unifying (who hates freedom?), telling, and a real measure of some use. It cuts straight from center (where the fake ideas of left and right are not diverged yet) to totalitarianism (where the fake ideas of left and right again merge and are indistinguishable). This is predicated on the idea that you really can’t distinguish left from right in the center, where freedom is maximized, and you really can’t tell left from right at the extremes, where freedom is minimized (many have tried to distinguish Communism from Fascism…unconvincingly).

Thus, to me, leftism and rightism seem as a couple of semi-circular roads that lead from free, happy centrism to hell-on-earth extremism, which can only be distinguished by their different way points! Yet, unlike the left/right show, the individualist/statist measurement is pretty much an absolute barometer for any situation.

Is this clear? Think big circle, centrism at bottom, totalitarianism at top, leftism and rightism are the paths leading up and around the circle, whereas my Freedom/Statist axis ignores the circle and goes straight up the center between free-centrism and slave-totalitarianism. I’m all about the free/slave aspect. The left/right aspect signifies nothing useful to me.

TO glider, January 2 at 11:06 am #
DieDaily,
When you said:
“I am still not sure what you are getting at with
your Nazi references to Obama.  I agree that Obama is
dangerous in that he is disingenuous and duplicitous. 
He spouts Populist rhetoric but runs a Corporatist
agenda.  His Corporatist agenda is particularly
harmful in that it seems to favor
institutionalization of large Monopolistic
Corporations that are forces against effective Free
Market Capitalism.  So Obama clearly can not be
trusted.  But to insinuate (?) that he may have a
hidden agenda anything approaching what Hitler
wrought seems unreasonable.  I personally think
Obama’s goal is to empower the Corporations who
financed him and keep their campaign monies away from
the Republicans.  I don’t see an End Game beyond that
objective.  In contrast Hitler created a brillant
vibrant free market economy and then used it to
advance his distorted evil state agenda of
imperialism and genocide.  In my eyes these 2
characters are very different indeed.  Obama is plain
vanilla corrupt and Hitler was a brillant maniac.”

you are very close to the truth. To understand the
flaws in your thinking & terminology & find
out what fascism & naziism have to do with Obama &
his real agenda, you would have to
read 2 books: “BLOWBACK,THE FIRST FULL ACCOUNT OF
AMERICA’S RECRUITMENT
OF NAZIS,AND ITS DISASTROUS EFFECT ON OUR DOMESTIC
AND FOREIGN POLICY,
BY CHRISTOPHER SIMPSON, also: “TRADING WITH THE
ENEMY,THE NAZI-AMERICAN
MONEY PLOT 1933-1949 BY CHARLES HIGHAM”.
Then you would realize that Obama / Bush3, is a
fascist in sheep clothing.
To find out the similarities between Bush3, the
silver tongued devil, & Hitler,
you are just a few clicks away.
If that doesn’t get you to the cliffsnotes page, then
Google:“Words are, of course, the most
powerful drug used by mankind.”
http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA/Section/
Please-explain-this-Kipling-quote-Words-are-of-course-the-most-
powerful-drug-used-by-mankind-.id-305403,articleId-8036.html
Knowing the truth is liberating.

DieDaily,

I am still not sure what you are getting at with your Nazi references to Obama.  I agree that Obama is dangerous in that he is disingenuous and duplicitous.  He spouts Populist rhetoric but runs a Corporatist agenda.  His Corporatist agenda is particularly harmful in that it seems to favor institutionalization of large Monopolistic Corporations that are forces against effective Free Market Capitalism.  So Obama clearly can not be trusted.  But to insinuate (?) that he may have a hidden agenda anything approaching what Hitler wrought seems unreasonable.  I personally think Obama’s goal is to empower the Corporations who financed him and keep their campaign monies away from the Republicans.  I don’t see an End Game beyond that objective.  In contrast Hitler created a brillant vibrant free market economy and then used it to advance his distorted evil state agenda of imperialism and genocide.  In my eyes these 2 characters are very different indeed.  Obama is plain vanilla corrupt and Hitler was a brillant maniac.

By DieDaily, January 2 at 5:14 am #

>>Not ONE of my citations includes anything LPAC or religious. Instead I cited the ADL. How much more non-Larouche could I possibly have been? <<

I understand what you believe now.  But look at the homepage for your first 2 references you will see significant references to LaRouche.

The most general introduction I had was this:
http://cecaust.com.au/main.asp?sub=articles&id=2009_05_31_eir-t4-revived.html

Hitler’s free medicine then centralized and turned toward euthanasia and eugenics’
http://cecaust.com.au/pubs/pdfs/10-13_3622.pdf

By Outraged, January 2 at 6:39 am #
>>Hitler rose to power via propaganda and political manuevering<<

You make Hitler sound like Obama.  There was more to his takeover and it included violence and exploiting the harsh economic conditions of the times.

>>he maintained power by siphoning off the sweat of those he incarcerated by “renting them out” to private industry, of which he “took a cut”<<

This is utter unsubstantiated nonsense.  Hitler was hugely popular amongst the German people due to his early success in returning the country to prosperity.  The later insane dark phase you are talking about was the beginning of the end for the Third Reich.  His totalitarian regime was able to maintain power inspite of the atrocity you cite.

I wish to thank both glider and DieDaily for their contributions to my education on this subject. I think the willingness to offer background for opinions a refreshing and all too lacking trait here.

To:
Thrashertm, January 1 at 10:02 pm #

“Truthdig, your readers are better informed than this
simpleton EJ Dionne. I find that is generally the
case for most of the establishment tools whose
articles you carry on here.
Regarding the content of the article - Obama is just
more of the same garbage that we got with Bush 2.0
It’s time we elected leaders of principle and courage
like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich - men that uphold
their oath to the Constitution rather than trying to
subvert it. They serve the people and not the
corporate masters (Goldman Sachs, Boeing, Blue Cross)
that run most of the government.”
Hey Thrashertm:

YOU OF HAVE BEEN FOOLED BY RON PAUL.
He is a very dangerous miscreant, just like Joe
Lieberrat. The difference is that Ron Paul is wearing
sheep clothing. His call for getting rid of the FED
is fascist propaganda. His book about the FED isn’t
worth the paper it’s printed on & is just bloviation,
self aggrandizement,& fecal vomiting. The good news
for you is that you don’t have to read a half dozen
books
about the FED, just watch a new DVD from MONEY
MASTERS entitled “SECRETS OF OZ”,which has “WEB OF
DEBT” super expert Ellen Brown to understand
why his mantra for return to the gold standard is
pure banksterism.

The unresearched comments regarding Hitler are simply apologetic excuses for his reign of terror. 

Hitler rose to power via propaganda and political manuevering, he maintained power by siphoning off the sweat of those he incarcerated by “renting them out” to private industry, of which he “took a cut”.  It was Himmler’s idea, since…. as the story goes Hitler was simply going to exterminate them.  Instead, plan-b was to “utilize” them until they dropped dead, literally.  Since Hitler could always “round up a new crew”..... it was bad business planning to feed or care for those who could be replaced.  This is why there was “a sorting out” of people brought to the “internment camps”.  If you were not usable as a worker, you were killed or “allowed” to die, depending upon which “camp” you were incarcerated.

To Spooky-43, January 2 at 5:45 am #
By Thrashertm, January 1 at 10:02 pm #

“It’s time we elected leaders of principle and
courage like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich - men that
uphold their oath to the Constitution rather than
trying to subvert it. They serve the people and not
the corporate masters (Goldman Sachs, Boeing, Blue
Cross) that run most of the government”.

I could definitely get behind a Paul or Kucinich
campaign.

Why is it so hard to get men of principle and courage
elected?  Is it the stupidity of the electorate, or
is it the strength of the great political machine? 
Or more probably a combination of both.”

BOTH OF YOU OF HAVE BEEN FOOLED BY RON PAUL.
He is a very dangerous miscreant, just like Joe
Lieberrat. The difference is that Ron Paul is wearing
sheep clothing. His call for getting rid of the FED
is fascist propaganda. His book about the FED isn’t
worth the paper it’s printed on & is just bloviation,
self aggrandizement,& fecal vomiting. The good news
for you is that you don’t have to read a half dozen books
about the FED, just watch a new DVD from MONEY
MASTERS entitled “SECRETS OF OZ”,which has “WEB OF
DEBT” super expert Ellen Brown in it to understand
why his mantra for return to the gold standard is
pure banksterism.

By Thrashertm, January 1 at 10:02 pm #

“It’s time we elected leaders of principle and courage like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich - men that uphold their oath to the Constitution rather than trying to subvert it. They serve the people and not the corporate masters (Goldman Sachs, Boeing, Blue Cross) that run most of the government”.

I could definitely get behind a Paul or Kucinich campaign.

Why is it so hard to get men of principle and courage elected?  Is it the stupidity of the electorate, or is it the strength of the great political machine?  Or more probably a combination of both.

Lyndon LaRouche is creepy. I smell for-profit, right-wing scam, when I smell LaRouche. If you google “Hitler and Universal Health Care” you get a lot of LPAC crappola. I don’t buy ANY of it. Not ONE of my citations includes anything LPAC or religious. Instead I cited the ADL. How much more non-Larouche could I possibly have been?

DieDaily,
OK, I stand corrected.  However, if you ask a stranger to read your posts and describe your political position I maintain you may find them confused as well.  I guess you are influenced strongly by the CEC and Lyndon LaRouche clubs on which I am no expert.  But you talk in riddles so I will keep an open mind.

wildflower, I’m for universal health care. I live in Canada (since childhood, but I am a US citizen), and I love the health care system here, extremely long lineups for vital services and all. Yes people I know have waited 18 months for simple tests and surgeries, yes some have died, but would I change places with those south of the border? No.)

I’ve never said that universal health care is bad, so what are you talking about? I’ve said that hiding a sinister agenda behind leftist slogans is not an anomaly, it the historical norm. Secondly, in what way does universal health care relate to Obama’s bills in Congress and the Senate (answer: none!). What I did say is that left and right wing propaganda is pablum for the uninformed and ignorant. EVERYTHING I have said derived exclusively from my premise that the “left” and “right” do not exist in any substantive, helpful way. They divide us, while distracting us from the true axis of measurement: Freedom vs. Statism. Hitler is my example of Statism gone wild using left cover. Where did I say that universal health care is bad? Nowhere. Please reread and criticize me along pertinent lines. I’m 100% for universal health care. I’m 100% against Obama-care because it is nothing like universal health care as you should well know. It’s a corporate scam from a corporate lackey. Hear me? As long as there is a false left-right divide, we will keep grinding our wheels this way. Get it?

glider, everything you say is true, but again you have jumped to a conclusion that I oppose universal health care, while by no means do! What did I write that justifies this? If it had been a fake rightist I was answering I would have hit him with the BS that Stalin and Mao spouted along the same bogus lines. It wasn’t. It was a fake leftist. (By that I mean all rightists and leftists are unknowingly fakes.) So I use Hitler. All of this goes exactly to my point: rightists will cry “oh no, leftists!” and leftists will cry “oh no, rightists!”. All I’m pointing out is that I am not drinking any of that cool-aid. It’s statism vs. freedom pure and simple. Not complicated. I’m sure has hell not right wing. I’d rather be dead. I would suggest that if you back up and read my posts again, this will be very, very clear. Why would I choose between being a rightist stooge and dupe vs. being a leftist stooge and dupe? I would have de-educate myself unbelievably thoroughly to fall for either.

You might want to consider reading less about Hitler and more about
healthcare,DieDaily. Currently, thirty-two of the thirty-three developed nations
have universal health care. Guess who is the one exception - America?

Norway
New Zealand
Japan
Germany
Belgium
United Kingdom
Kuwait
Sweden
Bahrain
Brunei
Canada
Netherlands
Austria
United Arab Emirates
Finland
Slovenia
Denmark
Luxembourg
France
Australia
Ireland
Italy
Portugal
Cyprus
Greece
Spain
South Korea
Iceland
Hong Kong
Singapore
Switzerland
http://truecostblog.com/2009/08/09/countries-with-universal-healthcare-
by-date/

DieDaily,
You seem to be promoting a nonsensical direct linkage between Single Payer Health Care and Third Reich Euthanasia Policy.  There is no direct linkage by necessity and any such claim is illogical fear mongering propaganda of the worst kind.  Obviously, state totalitarian control can enable many evil outcomes.  What is within the realm of possibility is not what is relevant here.  Let me ask you this.  We have many examples of government run health care such as in Canada and in England.  Are you proposing the absurd notion that these countries will be mimicking the Euthanasia policies of the Third Reich as well?  That Single Payer Healthcare must necessarily result in Nazi style atrocities?  Please tell us the precise linkage that you propose prevents a benevolent form of Single Payer Health Care from existing.  Additionally be aware that American HICs are already effecting a policy of widespread euthanasia now, that is much greater than that occurring in these 2 examples, by making critical health care unaffordable or denying it outright.

ardee, thanks for questioning! You are correct about Hitlers private views, absolutely so. But that’s not what I was talking about. I was referring to his public selling points, his propaganda, and particularly the LEFT COVER (medicine, unions, subsidies, command economy, wealth redistribution, etc.) under which he sold his real hidden program. Same for Obama. He’s obviously not openly fascistic, just secretly so.

At the risk of stating the incredibly obvious, I can begin by pointing out what NAZI stands for. Yes, that’s “National SOCIALISM”. Lol, but you’re right this was a total populist misrepresentation. Then again, that’s my whole point too. Universal health care was already a reality in NAZI Germany long before Hitler, just as Medicare predates Obama. Hitler ran on expanding and centralizing it (and corrupted it, via centralizing admin and policy, as Obama wants to). This led to the infamous “Action T4” euthanasia program and the general tyranny that always hid behind a medical/scientific front and the idea of “hygiene, purity, health, and freedom”. You will see that even the ADL and AMA know and state these facts publicly.

But here’s where I got my info:

First, the most widely cited paper in the world on these topics is:
Proctor RN. Racial hygiene. Medicine under the Nazis. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1988.

Much else that I cite cited this paper in turn, usually as the first citation. It is entirely unchallenged. Even the infamous ADL features it prominently in many articles. These articles, since they are ostensibly for ant-NAZI use only, let slip a lot facts and truths which suggest the US is on almost exactly the same path.

The most general introduction I had was this:
http://cecaust.com.au/main.asp?sub=articles&id=2009_05_31_eir-t4-revived.html

Hitler’s free medicine then centralized and turned toward euthanasia and eugenics’
http://cecaust.com.au/pubs/pdfs/10-13_3622.pdf

Hitler’s obsession with health, health legislation, and prohibition of smoking
http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/id1.html

Hitler promoted vegetarianism, animal rights (i.e. CLAIMED to be vegetarian, obviously wasn’t)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC535959/

Shockingly, the ADL confirms and expands my thesis about NAZI Medicare gone wild
http://www.adl.org/Braun/dim_14_1_nazi_med.asp

The AMA has always argued the same as I am and still does:
http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=military_analysts_tmln&military;_analysts_
tmln_general_events=military_analysts_tmln_health_care_reform_controversy

(NOTE: I don’t trust the ADL or AMA, I’m merely showing that EVEN they admit it.)

Ardee
>>JDmysticDJ, so sad for you. Hitler ran on, among other things, single-payer health care, environmentalism, socialized redistribution of wealth, stronger unions, higher wages, social safety nets, nationalized industry, and women’s rights.

Interesting conjecture, but one I am unable to verify. Perhaps you might help me out?<<

I agree, very tough to find information.  Regarding Hiltler’s highly effective economic policies check out the following:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/GE24Dj01.html

Truthdig, your readers are better informed than this simpleton EJ Dionne. I find that is generally the case for most of the establishment tools whose articles you carry on here.

Regarding the content of the article - Obama is just more of the same garbage that we got with Bush 2.0 It’s time we elected leaders of principle and courage like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich - men that uphold their oath to the Constitution rather than trying to subvert it. They serve the people and not the corporate masters (Goldman Sachs, Boeing, Blue Cross) that run most of the government.

The decade show other nations that we were no longer a patsy, having UN take our $$ and spend it on their whims and utter nonsense. It ended aid to countries unwilling to change and rewarded our friends. It spelled an end to terrorism and their attacks on this country.
It ushered in a era of democrats taking over congress that will end in 2010 and will never reappear in my life time.

Fighting Over the Squandered Decade

“Barack Obama’s presidency is simply a continuation
of our argument over the effects of George W. Bush’s
time in office.That is why Obama, despite his fervent
wishes, has been unable to usher in a new period of
consensus. Bush’s defenders know that Obama’s
election represented a popular reaction against the
consequences of the 43rd president’s time in office.
Because Obama is both the anti-Bush and the leader of
the post-Bush cleanup squad, his success would
complete the rebuke.”
Hey E.J. Dionne: This is classic fecal vomiting. When
will you face reality & start telling the truth?
Bush3 has pushed America into a debtor’s abyss with a
deficit so large that we can’t even pay the interest,
while continuing “W’s” policies & pretending to be
the messiah. Will it take an attack on Iran or Yemen
or both to come clean. After a year of lies & deceptions, you could make a better case that he is the anti-Christ & not the anti-Bush.

Re Diedaily: “Hitler ran on, among other things, single-payer healthcare”

Hmmm, when I think of Hitler a lot of things come to mind, but never his advocacy for single-payer healthcare.  No, when I think of Hitler of I mostly think of his political policy preference – dictatorship.  In America, I suppose Dick Cheney and the neo-con segment of the Republican Party are the most visible advocates for a dictatorship.  YES, Bush & Cheney’s WMD lies, the illegal invasion of Iraq, the Patriot Act, Yoo’s legal right to torture tasks, willful violations of U.S. law etc. all lead in the direction of a dictatorship. And God knows Dick Cheney has been trying in every way possible for a very long time.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20060210.html
Vice President Cheney and The Fight Over “Inherent” Presidential Powers: His Attempt to Swing the Pendulum Back Began Long Before 9/11 [John Dean]

The Nazi idea of the Volk had strong communitarian, one might almost say communistic aspects.  One of the things racism produces is social cohesion, which helps explain its popularity and its easy association, especially in a fascist state, with Welfare, Public Health, conservation and so on.

DieDaily, January 1 at 5:23 am #

JDmysticDJ, so sad for you. Hitler ran on, among other things, single-payer health care, environmentalism, socialized redistribution of wealth, stronger unions, higher wages, social safety nets, nationalized industry, and women’s rights.

Interesting conjecture, but one I am unable to verify. Perhaps you might help me out?

Hitler’s Political Views
Hitler lived in Vienna for several years, working at odd jobs and absorbing the ideas of Austrian right-wing extremists. In 1913, he left Vienna and moved to Munich in southern Germany. He took with him the basic political ideas to which he would remain committed for the balance of his life. Central to Hitler’s thought were his notions of race. He believed in the racial superiority of the Germanic peoples (the Aryan race) and in the inferiority of other races, especially Jews but also Slavs and blacks. Hitler also advocated the Pan-German ideology that was popular among many Austrian extremists. Pan-Germanism held the view that all Germans should be united in a single state. In addition, Hitler was hostile to the ideology of Marxism, which emphasized the unity of the international working class rather than racial solidarity.

The following extracts illustrate some of the political ideas of Adolf Hitler (1889-1945):

In that we deny the principle of parliamentary democracy we strike the strongest blow for the right of the nation to the self-determination of its own life. For in the parliamentary system we see no genuine expression of the nation’s will—a will which cannot logically be anything else than a will to the maintenance of the nation—but we do see a distortion, if not a perversion, of that will. The will of a nation to the self-determination of its being manifests itself most clearly and is of most use when its most capable minds are brought forth. They form the representative leaders of a nation, they alone can be the pride of a nation—certainly never the parliamentary politician who is the product of the ballot box and thinks only in terms of votes. The constructive development of the future leadership of the nation through its most able men will take years; the intelligent education of the German people will take decades. (1)

edited for length

http://www2.dsu.nodak.edu/users/dmeier/Holocaust/hitler.html

DieDaily
You make some interesting points but you should not demonize everything from that period of history with that broad brush.  Apart from his imperialism and genocide (huge problems rightly confronted, of course) Hitler arguably produced the greatest economic miracle in history.  Within just five years he transformed Germany from a state of hyperinflation and mass unemployment into an economic powerhouse (with no export market!) that took the efforts of the rest of the world combined to stop (and Americas control of the world’s oil supply).  This of course was not accomplished by Hitler’s hate filled speeches.  Rather, within his insane Anti-Semitism he accidentally got one thing right.  He eliminated the Private Banksters and created a national currency based on labor units on which the country would thrive economically.  This was basically the monetary system of our founding fathers and Lincoln, and before the Federal Reserve System under which we suffer today.

JDmysticDJ, so sad for you. Hitler ran on, among other things, single-payer health care, environmentalism, socialized redistribution of wealth, stronger unions, higher wages, social safety nets, nationalized industry, and women’s rights. You would have bought that line then, and you are buying now. Transcend, my man, transcend! Your “left” is a fantasy, a wish, a dream, and ultimately a poison. Where we need to unify, you divide. You are an accidental state-worshiper. So sad.

DieDaily

It’s not about left, right, left, right. The only progress we’ve made was when we stepped left, left, left, left, but for the majority of the time we have goose stepped right, right, right, right. (Try that, you won’t get anywhere but in traction.)

I like your Utopian view, but we can’t even walk in the right (left) direction. I think we need to walk the “Road less traveled,” (The one to the left.) It will lead us closer to Utopia.

Stop straggling

Maybe the most pernicious aspect of human nature is the desire to make judgments about relative values based on personal ambition—values attempting to gain money, power, status as a step up to being “better than” or “the strongest”. But as the human race reaches the point of world overpopulation there is less and less room to persist in such ambitions without incurring hatred, rage, fear and war.
  So maybe we all need to become more conscious of this shortsighted ambition, understand it in all its grasping aspects, and learn how to control it in order that humans can survive their own destructive impulses.
  Early in human history, the need for survival forced humans to cooperate in groups with individuals accepting duties, obligations, ambitions that served the group’s survival, and thereby the individuals themselves.
  Over centuries populations expanded into foreign territories, established larger, more complex communities, more complicated cultures, and survived except for the facts that clashes between them became more destructive and counterproductive, and the complicated social systems they represented became increasingly dysfunctional yet resistant to change.
  At this stage humans must make another transition for survival—one which develops mutually acceptable laws to establish internationally a liveable balance of environmental care, justice and freedom. New limitatioins on exploitation will be necessary. A broader acceptance of differences also. The alternative is massive self-destruction.
  This will be the most difficult readjustment the human race has yet accomplished.  It will be possible only with patience, cooperation and wisdom.
  Words won’t do it, yet verbalizing the broad goals may help. May 2010 set us all on the path together, aware of dangers, but inspired by possibilities, prepared to search and learn, to care, to endure and persist.

It’s fairly common for pundits to take a stab at philosophical profundity this time of year.  E.J. Dionne’s latest contribution to the genre here suffers from both an abundance of cliche and a shortage of insight.  It no-doubt endears him to his sponsors and employers, though, and ensures his continuing access to the welcome mat at the White House.

As an example of knee-jerk triteness, there is his silly reassertion of the elitist canard that “Americans instinctively recoil from living too much in the past.”  The actual fact is theamericanpeople are and have long been systematically brainwashed into the idiotic belief that they’ve left the past permanently behind, and so needn’t bother about it except as it offers excuses to wallow in the “exceptionalism” which is a principal tenet of the state religion.

Meantime, there is probably no more ghost-ridden herd of homo domesticus on Earth than these self-righteously self-absorbed americans.  They will make nothing at all of “the next decade” until they clean up the terrible mess they’ve made of the last thirty or so of them.

It’ll be us surviving free wild Indians, too, who will be monitoring the performance….and “grading” it.

HokaHey!

Good one JDmysticDJ.  Congress should wear their NASCAR jackets so we will easily know their sponsors. As we slip further into dysfunction, the power brokers will want us to be more like China.  More efficient, don’t ya know.

Mr. Dionne is yet another fool who believes the numbers on a calendar have magical properties that begin and end eras.  The Era of George Worthless Bush and Dick Chaingang is still ongoing, still speeding downhill, ever faster, seeking the bottom where it will demolish itself in a squeak and a puff of smoke.  Barack Obama is nothing more than a political version of shuck and jivers like Anthony Robbins or Joel Osteen.  He can swivel his head 360 degrees and spit green soup but he will not end the insanity.  He believes in it with all his heart . . . if you could ever locate his heart.  I don’t think he has one any longer.