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Dispatches From Cairo: We Are All Palestinian Now

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Posted on May 17, 2011
AP / Amr Nabil

Egyptians gather around a Palestinian flag during a protest in Tahrir Square, the focal point of Egyptian uprising, in Cairo.

By Lauren Unger-Geoffroy

Editor’s note: We asked Lauren Unger-Geoffroy, an Arabic-speaking American who lives in Cairo, to share her perspective of life in Egypt after the revolution.

Where do I start? The people have been whipped up into a frenzy in Cairo since last week—wave upon wave of breathless, conflict-adrenalin, motivated-action, reaction, all subjects overlapping in one will to solidarity.

On Friday and Saturday, in the wake of the sectarian violence in Imbebe, as expected some were caught up in the momentum of the conflict, but the majority reacted in a surge of “Muslims and Christians one hand!” and the cross and crescent symbol appeared again all over, online and in conversations and on TV.

But friends who went down to Tahrir Square to demonstrate for sectarian unity and brotherhood were surprised to find few manifesting for their subject. Instead they found thousands of Palestinian flags and Libyan flags and chanting for the return of Palestine to the Palestinians.

And there were signs. The new symbol was an image of a big, old-fashioned key, representing the properties that the Palestinians were depossessed of when Israel was created. Signs bearing keys and slogans about “give back our homes” were plentiful. And media and speakers were calling for a march to the Rafah border crossing from Egypt to Israel to take back Palestine Sunday on the 63rd anniversary of the Nakba, or “catastrophe”—the day Israel declared its independence and hundreds of thousands of Palestinians fled or were expelled from their homes.

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Thousands of protesters gathered outside the Israeli Embassy on Sunday to commemorate that date and were received with tear gas and rubber bullets and some live ammo, according to some reports. Lots of telephone videos of sad injuries. Many arrests, and many who were injured and sent to the hospital will be arrested upon their release. It is uncertain whether these arrests, trials and punishments will be severe; hanshof. The Nakba moment is already past and Egypt careens forward onto new concerns of all sorts. There are still only some dozen hard-core activists camping at the Rafah border. But Palestine is never completely out of the thoughts of anyone in the Middle East—and it is clear to the world that the people want the liberation of Palestine.

As forced as the key symbol on the signs may be, and although the image may be forgotten shortly in the onslaught of new icons and new matters of solidarity and conflict, both visceral and intellectual, Palestine is the unifying force and focus of the entire Muslim/Arab world: This is the “one hand.” Every sanction and refusal to concede to it reinforces its unified strength and voice.

The military’s aggressive control of the demonstration at the Israeli Embassy in Maadi was dramatic, and there was other local drama, too. Some angry tribal-minded folks continued their Muslim/Christian feud. They did not pay attention to the news; still worked up for fighting in the streets, some burned another church. The opposing sides were left alone by the police and army, and Christians complained about lack of protection. Some people were killed and some injured—the numbers that were reported vary widely.

Had the involved people paid attention they would have heard that the woman who was the cause of the religious conflict in Cairo had been arrested for bigamy. It was contrary to what we had heard at first, that she was a Christian who had run away from her home and husband in Coptic-dominated Assiut (a hotbed of Christian/Muslim tension) to Cairo and converted to Islam to marry a Muslim man and the Christians were detaining her in a church. This story adds fuel to the smoldering resentment from earlier this year over a Christian priest’s wife who was reported to have converted to Islam and as a result to have been abducted by the Coptic Church.

And on and on. Of course many are convinced that most of these conflicts are instigated by the usual infiltrating agitators, using the technique of division and confusion to keep the people weak.

There was also deposed first lady Suzanne Mubarak’s “heart attack.” Most doubted that she had actually suffered the illness, because it came on the day she was to respond in court to charges of corruption and robbing the people of Egypt. She has since “given” some money back, claiming it is “all she has.”  Some felt sorry for her, but—as more and more iniquities come to light—not most.

Traffic has been gridlocked in Cairo for the last several days. Working people are disgruntled and fed up, and Sunday’s multiple demonstrations caused an accident on the Nile Cornishe that killed eight, according to the news. As in the USA, the media news here is either true, false or approximative, so numbers and other elements of public persuasion are always measured with a flexible barometer.

I can assure you of this: In the next few days the people will have moved on, thinking about the new government, about the Muslim-Christian conflict, about revolution solidarity, Libya, Syria, the Mubaraks, complaints, restitutions, apologies, compromise, instigations, reconciliations, divisions, hope and planning and drama and blood. Insha allah, less blood and more communication.

But the one thing that always remains on the people’s minds and lips, that pulls this whole wild wave of shift together, is Egypt’s solidarity about Palestine and resentment of Israel. There is no one here who does not want a free Palestine, and somehow this will be done, and then what?—no one knows. But we can feel it coming in the shared passion of hundreds of millions. We are the ocean.

The future is coming and we may not be ready. We pray that it will be good; we believe we can be great.  We don’t know what shore we will crash upon, but we are going there finally together.


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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 26, 2011 at 3:04 am Link to this comment

Inherit

Amazing! In three posts I get slammed by the extreme left and right at the same time!

I must be doing SOMETHING right.

I guess the world did end yesterday and I’m in Blogger’s Hell!

Actually Inherit, I chalk it up to your paranoia which I have grown quite use to over these years.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 25, 2011 at 11:32 am Link to this comment

That sound you heard was your dear Molly Ivins. She just rolled over in her grave!
*********

And grinned!  Molly always liked to stir up a ruckus!

She’s one of my heroes.

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OzarkMichael's avatar

By OzarkMichael, May 24, 2011 at 7:09 pm Link to this comment

ITW said: “Amazing! In three posts I get slammed by the extreme left and right at the same time!

I must be doing SOMETHING right.”

(rustle rustle)

That sound you heard was your dear Molly Ivins. She just rolled over in her grave!

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 24, 2011 at 2:29 pm Link to this comment

JD,

Must be those gazillion voices in his head.

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JDmysticDJ's avatar

By JDmysticDJ, May 24, 2011 at 6:27 am Link to this comment

PatrickHenry

It was Bazillions and Gazillions.

There have been Mosques and graveyards in Israel that have been destroyed, expropriated, and defiled, but not the Bazillions and Gazillions.

GRYMie writes, “Hundreds of thousands of Christians and Jews have killed, kidnapped, raped and imprisoned only for “sin” of being infidels.

Wow! I’m really confused now! I had no idea that Christian and Jew Infidels were killing, kidnapping, raping, and imprisoning to such an extent.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 23, 2011 at 3:15 pm Link to this comment

GRYM, OM,

Once again your blathering, unsupported by facts belies your ignorance.

http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2009/06/10/
the-jews-of-saudi-arabia-yemen-and-lebanon/

Why don’t you provide the backup to support your BS.

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Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, May 23, 2011 at 11:51 am Link to this comment

Syrian Revolt: 900 Dead and Counting!

-

“For all those Left-wingnuts who believe Jews are treated as equal citizens in the Arab lands….”

Thousands of churches and temples have been attacked and burned across North Africa and the Middle East in the past two decades.  Hundreds of thousands of Christians and Jews have killed, kidnapped, raped and imprisoned only for “sin” of being infidels.

There’s not a single church or temple in Islams holiest cities.  It’s simply not tolerated.  There are, however, thousands of Mosques in the United States and Israel.

-

I repeat.  An Arab man or woman can walk down any street or avenue in Israel and go about their business completely unmolested.  Not so for a Jew in Riyadh, Damascus, Kabul, Tehran, Jakarta or the West Bank.

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By JDmysticDJ, May 23, 2011 at 10:58 am Link to this comment

By O(b)zerkMichael, May 22 at 5:35 pm Link to this comment

“For all those Left-wingnuts who believe Jews are treated as equal citizens in the Arab lands, please get out a map. Look at Saudi Arabia. It is very big compared to little Israel.

There used to be Jews there in Saudi Arabia. Jewish camps, settlements, towns and farms…

The came Mohammed and his Islam which removed them. . Read from Muslim sources.

And since then?

How many Jewish temples are there in Mohammed’s homelands now?

Look at the entire Arabian Penninsula, that is the Islamic homeland, kept pure from any other public worship, including the Jewish religion. Saudi Arabia is a one religion state which allows no rivalry with Islam.”

The straw man you build must have required all the straw on the Ozark Plateau. You’ll have to give some evidence of any “Left-wingnuts” who believe that Saudi Arabia is known for its religious freedom. However, this “Left-wingnut” will point out that the Ozark Plateau is known for prejudice, and intolerance. The “Left-wingnut” “National Geographic Magazine” commented about the people of the Ozark Plateau being prejudiced and intolerant, but I won’t stereotype you because your nom de plume claims Ozark heritage, it’s not necessary, because you reveal your prejudice,  intolerance, and ignorance with each sentence that you write.

“The Muslims have their religious homeland. Yes they do, and no other religion has such a large area that it claims for its exclusive religious homeland. It is very large. But that isnt enough. They need to have Israel too.”

The Muslims don’t, “…need to have Israel too,” or want Israel too:

“The U.N., every year, has this resolution called ‘Peaceful Settlement of the Palestine Question.’ It’s every year in the United Nations, in November of each year. And every year they outline the principles for resolving the conflict…  We have the platform or the basic principles based on international law. And those principles have been ratified every year not only by the U.N. General Assembly; they’re ratified every year by all 22 members of the Arab League. They’re ratified—they were ratified by the 57 members of the Organization of the Islamic Conference; recognition of Israel in its June ‘67 border. Incidentally, the Islamic Republic of Iran every year votes with the majority in the U.N. The Islamic Republic of Iran is a member of the Organization of the Islamic Conference. They ratified the two-state solution on the June ’67 border. There is no dispute about this. There is no denial of Israel’s right to its June ‘67 border. The only question is the right of the Palestinians to their border of the whole of the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem…”

You blather on about ancient history, and scream about preparing for war.

“I think the Jews of Khaybar would have been wiser to prepare for war instead of only farming. And the Jews of Israel today had better be ready. Reassurances by people like PatrickHenry arent worth much. Mohammed with his head chopping and Allahu Akbar-ing speaks more loudly than any cicada can buzz.”

While the cicadas are buzzing for peace, you are screaming for war.

“A friend found this beetle… It was screaming so loudly that he was able to hear it from inside his shop, so he went out to investigate…”  It turned out to be heliocopris fauna, a giant dung beetle.

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OzarkMichael's avatar

By OzarkMichael, May 22, 2011 at 5:35 pm Link to this comment

For all those Left-wingnuts who believe Jews are treated as equal citizens in the Arab lands, please get out a map. Look at Saudi Arabia. It is very big compared to little Israel.

There used to be Jews there in Saudi Arabia. Jewish camps, settlements, towns and farms…

The came Mohammed and his Islam which removed them. . Read from Muslim sources.

And since then?

How many Jewish temples are there in Mohammed’s homelands now?

Look at the entire Arabian Penninsula, that is the Islamic homeland, kept pure from any other public worship, including the Jewish religion. Saudi Arabia is a one religion state which allows no rivalry with Islam.

The Muslims have their religious homeland. Yes they do, and no other religion has such a large area that it claims for its exclusive religious homeland. It is very large. But that isnt enough. They need to have Israel too.

I think the Jews of Khaybar would have been wiser to prepare for war instead of only farming. And the Jews of Israel today had better be ready. Reassurances by people like PatrickHenry arent worth much. Mohammed with his head chopping and Allahu Akbar-ing speaks more loudly than any cicada can buzz.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 22, 2011 at 9:01 am Link to this comment

For all those reich-wingers who believe Jews are going to get their heads cut off hob nobbing with the arabs in arab lands.

http://www.opinion-maker.org/2011/05/
finkelstein-in-march-on-israels-cairo-embassy/

No right of return for Finkelstein, if he is killed it will be an Israeli doing it.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 22, 2011 at 8:54 am Link to this comment

Amazing! In three posts I get slammed by the extreme left and right at the same time!

I must be doing SOMETHING right.

I guess the world did end yesterday and I’m in Blogger’s Hell!

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OzarkMichael's avatar

By OzarkMichael, May 22, 2011 at 8:33 am Link to this comment

ITW said: “You can’t re-define racism and fascism to suit yourself.

My point is that you have done just that. And how upset you are that the Anti Israel crowd has done the same!

Every policy, every code word, every snide remark from the TeaParty reeks of racism and fascist intent.

That explains how you arrive at your conclusion, you have a “Little Leftist Annie secret decoder ring” which translates a peaceful citizen gathering into a violent Nazi protest, translates dissenters into brownshirts, translates the governor of Wisconsin into Hitler. Notice that there is no way for the accused to defend against the accusation.

Listen ITW. The anti Israel crowd has the same decoder ring! They first learned to use it against American conservatives from people like you. To this day you approve of that, you encourage that.

But unfortunately they also use it against Israel. And here is the summation of what they believe: ‘Everything that Israel says and does “reeks of fascist and rascist intent.”

See? They are just using the same secret Little Leftist Annie Decoder Ring, which turns every remark of its victim into proof of fascist and rascist intent, and paints the entire class as something quite dangerous. Notice that there is no way for the accused class to defend itself against the accusation.

The other thing to learn is that “this group is fascist”, cannot be the end of the story. Not at all.

The Left gets very worked up when their hope for justice against what they call fascism doesnt come about by normal political means. The ‘evidence’ of fascism grows stronger every week, year by year. Years go by and the ‘fascists’ prosper, free to speak and free to spread fascism by means that must be defined as nefarious. Because if they are fascists, we know that anything they do is nefarious.

Over time the accusation grows ever more urgent, the blood and misery of the victims of fascism demands justice. When justice doesnt come to the ‘fascist’ by normal means, then it cries to heaven for something more. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow. But each year the mounting pile of impugned fascist guilt rises to a level where ANYTHING done against the fascist will be fair game.

In other words, the accusation of fascism brings with it the absolute moral demand to break the power of or destroy the accused. By any means necessary. That is where all this is heading. That is where Truthdig leads you.

So the accused faces an existential threat. Of course you will deny it. And please note, when pressed the Leftists will all say that they dont hate Israel, or hate Jews. But something needs to be done, right?

It is hypocritical for you to complain about the Anti Israel crowd. It really is. Today you taught them that just one word from one person is enough to paint the entire class. Actually you taught them that they dont even need one word, all you need is to discern “intent” to make the conviction. All you need is for the individual to belong to the accused class and you can make the accusation stick. Trotsky was good at that. Such a terrible accusation must be met weith terrible reprisal. Trotsky was good at that too.

You taught the Anti Israel crowd that it is wisdom to impugn maximum fascist guilt with only minimum evidence. You taught them to stand firmly by threadbare evidence. You just did that now. You will of course have no idea what I am talking about.

Even when you complain about the decoder ring being used against Israel, in the very next sentence you show them how to use the decoder ring against conservatives. You have done that in three posts. You will of course spread your hands and wonder what i am talking about.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 22, 2011 at 8:06 am Link to this comment

It now appears BiBi is in Washington and chooses to mock President Obamas offer(and the World consensus) that Israel return to the 1967 borders in return for a non-militarized Palestinian state.

Who didn’t see this comming?  Raise your hand.

Now that the Palestinians have chose to change their tactics to non-violent ones, Israel has lost its biggest excuse for not negotiating in good faith.  They will of course continue to murder Palestinian civilians in cold blood and illegally embargo Gaza but I believe the writing is on the wall for an end to the Israel we see today. 

The ‘Arab Spring’ has brought change to places which truely needed it and Palestine is one of them.

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, May 22, 2011 at 6:34 am Link to this comment

“Again notice: Israel haters like Robert don’t give 2 shits if the Arab Spring fails.  It just doesn’t register on his radar.  All he wants is an end to Israel.

Do I defend current Israeli expansionism? Never! Show me where I have if you think so!

Do I defend the Israeli Government’s current right-wing policies? Never! Show me where I have if you think so!

Do I think that this thread is proof that radical “Leftists” don’t give a shit about any Arabs or Muslims other than Palestinians, Iraqis or Afghanis?  You bet I do!  They don’t give a shit about Egyptians, Libyans, Tunisian, Yemenis, or Syrians.  And when it came to Darfur, they DEFENDED Bashir!

Prove I’m wrong! Show me where Robert or TD3 or any of the others care about anyone who isn’t Palestinian or Iraqi or Afghani!”

~~~~~

Oh that ITW’s memory is fading or just may be his pale to “smear tactic” attempts…haven’t changed much.

How many times have I posted that Israel right to exist in the pre-June 1967 borders & where Jerusalem could remain as open city for ALL religions to have access to their Holy cites?

ITW…was only concerned that Jews will not have access to their Holy cites!!!

So lets ask ITW about where his beloved Israel’s borders should be? Pre-June 1967 or not? Can ITW be “Specific” about Israel’s final borders?

I have posted that Israel has 80% of the original Palestine land & that the “West-Bank/Occupied Teritorries” consist of 20%. Currently, Israel’s for “Jews Only” settlements & roads have taken up about 10%  of the West-Bank/Occupied Teritorries and way deep in just about every area or hill top…non-stop

How much more do the Palestinians have to lose? They have already lost so much land, justice, rights, homes, dignity ...etc…

BTW, I don’t hate Israel. I hate its Apartheid/Racism, its brutal policies and its barbaric treatment of the Palestinian people.

Isreal does NOT want peace with the Palestinians. Israel wants peace without the existence of the Palestinians & the non-stop of $3-5 billion dollars of our American taxpayers money…non-stop & much more.

Uh…Can ITW post where I stated that I wanted an end to Israel. And please quote me word by word !!!

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By Inherit The Wind, May 21, 2011 at 10:03 pm Link to this comment

Since changing the subject of a thread seems SOP, I’ve got a question:

Did the world end yesterday without me noticing?

Or did the Rapture happen and all the “true Christians” were sucked up into heaven out of their shoes, their clothes and even their graves?

Harold Camping, that doddering, blithering character wasting bandwidth has been ‘strangely silent’...has the old charlatan been sucked out of his jammies?

I guess I’m doomed…I’m still here.

Maybe this IS my curse—to be posting on web sites into eternity!

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By Inherit The Wind, May 21, 2011 at 5:19 pm Link to this comment

OK, TD:
I’ll give you that point. Maybe my memory DID fail on that. When you’re right, you’re right. But not Robert, and not some others.

I’m a loyal American, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t bitterly oppose 99.99% of Bush’s policies and, to my chagrin, probably 75% of Obama’s.

I’m not Israeli but I want Israel to succeed.  That doesn’t mean I don’t detest the policies of the current government, egged on by people who want an ultra-Orthodox Taliban.

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By truedigger3, May 21, 2011 at 4:15 pm Link to this comment

Re: By Inherit The Wind, May 21 at 2:16 pm

ITW wrote:

“Prove I’m wrong! Show me where Robert or TD3 or any of the others care about anyone who isn’t Palestinian or Iraqi or Afghani!”
—————————————————————————

ITW,

I thought your memory is better than this. I have been posting in truthdig for more than 4 years, and I commented on all kind of subjects, both national and iternational and history etc etc. Just see my first post in this thread which was about Egypt and its dark cold freezing winter of a revolution and NOT the alleged “Arab spring “. See my posts on Nomi Prins article.
The truth of the matter is that any article about Israel attracts an army of posters from both left and right.  A group of them have emotional attachment to Israel and is deluded and is brain washed by the continuous omnipresent Zionist propaganda which are all over the MSM and in many of the so called progressive Web sites.
The other group is a bunch of war mongers and Arab haters whose only aim is to spread fear, hate and hysteria against the Arabs.
Sometimes, I cann’t help it but to join the discussion when the delusion, hate and lying are showing thetr ugly presence. PEACE.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 21, 2011 at 2:16 pm Link to this comment

Again notice: Israel haters like Robert don’t give 2 shits if the Arab Spring fails.  It just doesn’t register on his radar.  All he wants is an end to Israel.

Do I defend current Israeli expansionism? Never! Show me where I have if you think so!

Do I defend the Israeli Government’s current right-wing policies? Never! Show me where I have if you think so!

Do I think that this thread is proof that radical “Leftists” don’t give a shit about any Arabs or Muslims other than Palestinians, Iraqis or Afghanis?  You bet I do!  They don’t give a shit about Egyptians, Libyans, Tunisian, Yemenis, or Syrians.  And when it came to Darfur, they DEFENDED Bashir!

Prove I’m wrong! Show me where Robert or TD3 or any of the others care about anyone who isn’t Palestinian or Iraqi or Afghani!

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By Inherit The Wind, May 21, 2011 at 2:10 pm Link to this comment

OM:
I’m old enough to remember the rhetoric of the old-time segregationists, and the near-civil war this nation was in when people were trying to break the back of Southern entrenched racism (Yes, I know it was up North, but it wasn’t codified in law, just in behavior).

I see the same people, their children and grand-children and the same attitudes in the TeaParty: pushing ideas that favor White Christians, especially Protestants.

You can’t re-define racism and fascism to suit yourself.  I have NO problem with labeling the TeaParty movement as such.  And standing by it.  In fact, I stand by the thesis that the Republican Party saw an opportunity starting in 1964 to recruit the white racists, especially southern white racists dissatisfied with where LBJ was taking the Democratic Party, into the GOP.  Nixon even labeled it “The Southern Strategy” and used “code” to refer to non-whites, classic code like “Law and Order” and “Crime and Welfare”. (This tactic was well-laid out by a reformed American Nazi party recruiter).  Reagan launched his 1980 campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi, just 16 years after 2 Jewish and 1 Black civil right workers were murdered in that town.

The current budget cuts pushed by the GOP directly impact poor and working class non-whites hardest. Not racist? “Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!”

Every policy, every code word, every snide remark from the TeaParty reeks of racism and fascist intent.

It’s beginning to look like the GOP Landslide of 2012 is going to fizzle out.  The only thing that can keep it alive is ongoing Democratic wimpy spinelessness.

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By truedigger3, May 21, 2011 at 11:44 am Link to this comment

Re: By JDmysticDJ, May 21 at 7:43 am

JDmysticDJ,
“I as a member of the Left do not believe that Israel is a “racist/fascist” oppressor. I have pointed out several times that Israelis and Palestinians both hail from Semitic ancestry so race is not a significant issue in my opinion.”
——————————————————-
JDmysticDJ,

Terminology is a moot point here. Whether anyone calls Israel a racist/fascist/liberal/conservative angelic or satanic oppressor, the BASIC reality is that Israel is a extremely discriminatory/exclusionary society which resulted in many isntances of oppressive laws and chronic oppression, mistreatment and discrimination against its own Arab citizens.
Discrimination and exclusion doesn’t depend on race alone. So, the thing that all are semitic is a moot point here.
The Israelis exclude and discriminate, even between themselves. The Eshkinazi Jews look down and discriminate against the Sephardim Jews and both look down and discriminate against, Yemini, Ethiopian, Indian and central Isian Jews, and all of them look down and discriminate and exclude against Arab citizens.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 21, 2011 at 9:37 am Link to this comment

In Spain they are protesting unemployed of 45 percent for 18 to 25 year olds, lets see how fast before it can be blamed on Israel.  Interestingly Spain is supposed to be a Socialist government, so the Republicans can do some more of their bread and butter cloned I told you sos!

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By JDmysticDJ, May 21, 2011 at 7:43 am Link to this comment

By O(b)zerkMichael, May 20 at 8:34 pm Link to this comment


“ITW said “One of the things about Israel-haters is that they NEVER EVER EVER apply the same “rules” to other countries that they apply to Israel.”

“Israel-haters” might sometimes, ‘apply the same ‘rules’ to other countries that they apply to Israel.’” Saying that “Israel-haters” “NEVER EVER EVER” [do], seems to be a bold assertion that is not supported by anything but emotion, but I am not defending these “Israel-haters” I’m only pointing out that the statement is not accompanied by any evidence to substantiate the assertion. Intuitively, I’ll suggest that “Israel-haters” would have a special set of rules for Israel, that they “NEVER EVER EVER” apply to other countries, but implying that “Israel-haters” is a term applicable to all who oppose Israeli Government Policies is a straw man argument, because the people you wish to discredit are not “Israel-haters” they are people opposed to Israeli Government Policies, and that opposition is based on commonly accepted rules applicable to all. The assertion is that people who oppose Israeli Policies are “Israel haters” who don’t object to the same policies when those objectionable policies are exercised by other countries is nothing but an emotional unsupported assertion. So what we have here is a false premise, that being that people who oppose Israeli Government Policies are “Israel-haters” who apply a special set of rules to Israel.

“Thats how the Left generally operates. Complete freedom for themselves, but chains for the ‘bad guys’. All they have to do is keep pointing out that they are on the side of the poor and downtrodden, while Israel is the racist/facist oppressor. Repeat it over and over until that rewrites history. It works, unfortunately.”

The Left as sociological sub-group, would have certain generalities, and I’ll agree that you have accurately identified one of the commonly accepted generalities of the Left, that being that the Left is, “…on the side of the poor and downtrodden,” I’ll argue that the Left does advocate freedom for everyone, but “complete freedom” is a utopian concept that is not, and never has been a reality, the Left does not believe that the “bad guys” should have complete freedom, and that the “bad guys” depending on the degree of badness, should be restrained, placed behind bars, and chained where necessary, in order to protect the good from the bad. Stereotyping the Left smacks of bigotry, for example, I as a member of the Left do not believe that Israel is a “racist/fascist” oppressor. I have pointed out several times that Israelis and Palestinians both hail from Semitic ancestry so race is not a significant issue in my opinion. My opinion is that Israeli Government Policies smack of fascism, so I’ll agree that you are half right in respect to me as one member of the Left. Inherit The Wind on the other hand is a member of the Left who does not agree with me, in totality, regarding my belief that Israeli Government Policies are Fascistic, but being more specific, Inherit The Wind has indicated that he does consider some in Israel as being Fascistic, but he has asserted that not all people in Israel are fascistic, and that all Jews are not fascistic, which is a point that I am in absolute agreement with. I’ll offer here that you appear to be attempting to influence Inherit The Wind into accepting your bigoted, I would say crypto-fascist, beliefs. To me, if to no one else, it is a poorly veiled opportunism that you exhibit here, and I firmly believe that Inherit The Wind is far too intelligent to be taken in by such a sophomoric, half-right, half-assed, half-witted attempt.

(Cont.)

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By JDmysticDJ, May 21, 2011 at 7:26 am Link to this comment

#2

“ITW, you are intimately familiar with that tactic and it is ironic that you complain about it. For you used that tactic over the years against others, such as calling the tea party “racist”, or conservative Christians “facist”,  holding us to rules that you never apply to your own. Now you are unhappy that the same kind of judgement is made by Truthdiggers against the Jews. It is a rising tide and it is an existential threat to Israel, I agree with that. And the tactic is unfair no matter who it used against.”

I have lost track of the tactic you are asserting, probably because the tactic asserted is mindless, and the assertion is demagoguery of the worst sort. Oh yeah, it’s the tactic of not applying rules universally, isn’t it? Asserting that the Tea Party smacks of racism requires no intelligence and very little political acuity; all that is required is an awareness of Tea Party public actions and public pronouncements, not to mention Tea Party cowardly anonymous profane vitriol. Tea Partiers disavow racism from one side of their mouths while uttering racist comments out of the other side of their mouths. I recently heard a Tea Party Leader go on a racist diatribe while denying that he was a racist. It’s interesting that the Tea Party disavows the many acts of right-wing violence documented over the last two years, but those who committed the violent acts don’t disavow the Tea Party, quite the contrary. Are Christian Conservatives “facist [sic]? I won’t argue the point; you’ll have to get the answer from Inherit The Wind. I only believe that Christian Conservatives are profoundly ignorant and dogmatic, which I’ll argue is a characteristic of fascists, but I also believe that liberal Christians are worthy of respect.

Apparently you are unaware of the many acts of hypocrisy revealed to the public concerning Christian Conservatives. Apparently the rules they espouse are not the rules they practice.

“But today, while trying to defend yourself against that tactic you used the same damned tactic! Here you are arguing with truedigger3:
TD3:
You are starting to sound like GRYM with:
“Stop the war-mongering” at everyone you disagree with, as he says “Stop the bigotry” at anyone who calls the Right the rising racist movement it is.
Such strict judgementmentalism! By golly you are good at applying ‘rules’ to the Right. Oh, you forgot to add “rising fascists known as the Tea Party”.
I like how you go for the ultimate insult as you try to shame truedigger3 by explaining that he sounds like the worst evil on earth.. an American Conservative named GRYM. That insult to GRYM is awful.
And by the way, I understand that tactically it is smart to placate the Anti Israel crowd by attempting to remind them that you have a common enemy, a common hatred for the real evil in this world… namely… American Conservatives like GRYM and me.
truedigger3 is right about one thing: We do look really stupid when we support you.”

This entire passage by you is convoluted and difficult to understand, but maybe those involved have a better understanding of what you’re getting at. I will comment that the existential threat to Israel, if one exists, would be a result of Israeli Government Policies. Under the worst case scenario, as I see it, there would be a reversal of roles between Palestinians and Israelis. Given the extent of Israeli armaments, which includes nuclear weapons, this worst case scenario is nothing more than an irrational fear. Contemplating such horrors only reinforces the need for Israel to pursue, and not obstruct, a mutually agreeable solution to the conflict.

(Cont.)

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By JDmysticDJ, May 21, 2011 at 7:21 am Link to this comment

#3

I am bored with refuting your pretzel logic so I’ll investigate no further. What you and GRYMie boy do here is obfuscate the topic for discussion and then set out to attack liberals, leftists, whatever. Why you two constantly expose yourself as being stupid is a mystery to me, I’ll suggest that therapy might be helpful.

I apologize for not being civil and for being “judgementmental.” In my defense, I’ll point out that I have not called anyone a moron or a sub-human cretin this time, though I do believe both terms are applicable.

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By Leefeller, May 21, 2011 at 2:47 am Link to this comment

You know JD pathological disorders may be normal and everything else is really disorder?

It appears the Pathological driven fanatics float to the top in higher percentages, thus the ones running the show and calling the shots, so we have Palestine and Israel being run by the Pathological cream of the crop, while the majority of the people really would prefer peace.

Dost say something about our situation here at home too!

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By OzarkMichael, May 20, 2011 at 8:34 pm Link to this comment

ITW said “One of the things about Israel-haters is that they NEVER EVER EVER apply the same “rules” to other countries that they apply to Israel.

Thats how the Left generally operates. Complete freedom for themselves, but chains for the ‘bad guys’. All they have to do is keep pointing out that they are on the side of the poor and downtrodden, while Israel is the racist/facist oppressor. Repeat it over and over until that rewrites history. It works, unfortunately.

ITW, you are intimately familiar with that tactic and it is ironic that you complain about it. For you used that tactic over the years against others, such as calling the tea party “racist”, or conservative Christians “facist”, holding us to rules that you never apply to your own. Now you are unhappy that the same kind of judgement is made by Truthdiggers against the Jews. It is a rising tide and it is an existential threat to Israel, I agree with that. And the tactic is unfair no matter who it used against.

But today, while trying to defend yourself against that tactic you used the same damned tactic! Here you are arguing with truedigger3:

TD3:
You are starting to sound like GRYM with:

“Stop the war-mongering” at everyone you disagree with, as he says “Stop the bigotry” at anyone who calls the Right the rising racist movement it is.

Such strict judgementmentalism! By golly you are good at applying ‘rules’ to the Right. Oh, you forgot to add “rising fascists known as the Tea Party”.

I like how you go for the ultimate insult as you try to shame truedigger3 by explaining that he sounds like the worst evil on earth.. an American Conservative named GRYM. That insult to GRYM is awful.

And by the way, I understand that tactically it is smart to placate the Anti Israel crowd by attempting to remind them that you have a common enemy, a common hatred for the real evil in this world… namely… American Conservatives like GRYM and me.

truedigger3 is right about one thing: We do look really stupid when we support you.

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By JDmysticDJ, May 20, 2011 at 6:25 pm Link to this comment

Robert

Thank you for your commitment to truth and justice. I must say that I have a high regard for your knowledge on the issues under discussion here.

It’s not beyond the audacity of hope to say that the June Flotilla might be as important as civil rights demonstrations in the 60’s were, if not more so.

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By Robert, May 20, 2011 at 4:02 pm Link to this comment

May 19, 2011

Open Letter to President Obama

By Ray McGovern (for the passengers and crew of “The Audacity of Hope” to Gaza)


Dear Mr. President:


“Your speech on the Middle East earlier today emboldens us to claim your protection as we set out to put flesh on your rhetoric. Fifty of your fellow citizens will be sailing on “The Audacity of Hope” to Gaza next month.

You spoke eloquently today about “times in the course of history when the action of ordinary citizens spark movements for change because they speak to a longing for freedom that has been building up for years.” And you lamented “failure to speak to the broader aspirations of ordinary people.”

We, the passengers and crew of “The Audacity of Hope,” sailing to Gaza in June together with the International Flotilla 2011, represent ordinary Americans determined to speak to the aspirations of the 1.5 ordinary Gazans yearning to be free. We will be delivering thousands of letters of support from other ordinary Americans who are persuaded, as Dr. King put it, that “injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”

We write you for assurance of your support and protection as we try to embody your rhetoric. You emphasized that “the United States supports a set of universal rights,” and that this U.S. support is “not a secondary interest.” It is, rather, “a top priority that must be translated into concrete actions.”

Bold words. With respect to the situation in Gaza, though, perhaps you will agree that it hardly suffices to bemoan the fate of one “Palestinian who lost three daughters to Israeli shells in Gaza,” who, as you put it, has a “right to feel angry.”

That Palestinian and his dead daughters are four, but 1,400 Gazans were killed by Israeli forces in December 1998-January 1999 — and 1.5 million Gazans remain deprived of the universal rights of which you spoke. Gaza is a sequestered, crowded open-air prison, in which Israel keeps inmates at a subsistence level of existence. This amounts to the kind of collective punishment banned by international law and is enforced by an equally illegal blockade.

We have long been puzzled that you choose to exempt Gazans from your concern about universal rights, and have tired of waiting for a cogent explanation. So we ask you to look upon our voyage to Gaza as our attempt to implement your rhetoric about what ordinary citizens can do — not only to “speak” but also to act to meet the broader aspirations of the ordinary people of Gaza.

Tomorrow, you will have an opportunity to inform Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of our intention to sail to Gaza next month. You have probably already been briefed on Israel’s far-flung diplomatic offensive to prevent our boat and the other boats of the international flotilla from embarking for Gaza. Indeed, the Israelis may be emboldened by your lack of response to the killing of nine passengers, including an American citizen, on the 2010 relief flotilla. This year you have a golden opportunity to speak up for us beforehand. We expect you to use it.

And please do not try to pretend that $3 billion of our taxes — our annual gift to Israel — cannot be translated into the kind of leverage that will spare “The Legacy of Hope” from harm at the hands of the “Israeli Defense Forces.”

~~~~~~~~

{Note: The dates in the letter should be December 2008-January 2009 and not 1998-1999.}


That Palestinian and his dead daughters are four, but 1,400 Gazans were killed by Israeli forces in December 1998-January 1999—


Click on link for the rest:

http://www.israel-palestinenews.org/
2011/05/open-letter-to-president-obama.html

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By Robert, May 20, 2011 at 3:36 pm Link to this comment

Israel Harms Palestinians (And Itself)

My Political Rupture With AIPAC


By MIKE GRAVEL

May 20 - 22, 2011


My concern for the Israeli-Arab conflict is a personal one. I was raised in a Jewish neighborhood—three synagogues within three blocks of our home in Springfield, Mass.—which sensitized me to Jewish culture and history. As a young student of world affairs, I closely followed the history of the Holocaust and Israel’s birth in Palestine.

On the other hand, I also had a close boyhood friend whose family had roots in Syria and Lebanon; they exposed me to the local Lebanese community. The Middle East conflict was part of my global political awakening.

During my 12 years in the U.S. Senate I enjoyed the support of a number of Jewish organizations, most notably the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the preeminent “pro-Israel” lobbying organization. For a time, I had a perfect voting record in support of Israel.

On several trips to Israel and the Middle East, I developed contacts at the highest levels of the Israeli government and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). These trips were discouraging; the possibility of peace seemed unattainable—until the courageous leadership of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat emerged.

My political rupture with AIPAC occurred over a vote for military aid to Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Israel. This legislative package of aid was put together by the White House primarily to shore up support for Sadat in the Middle East. AIPAC opposed the package and hoped to muster enough congressional opposition to pressure the White House to stop the military aid package to Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

But on this occasion, Sadat’s overture to Israel was too significant a factor. This was a rare instance in which AIPAC didn’t “win” on an issue. Interestingly, my vote was the same as those of Sens. Jacob Javits (New York) and Abraham Ribicoff (Connecticut), two Jewish leaders at that time in Congress and the nation. They also recognized the importance of supporting Sadat and were not intimidated by pressure from AIPAC.

This event underscores the nature of the Israel lobby in Washington. Political positions and decisions within AIPAC were and continue to be profoundly influenced by the Israeli government.

The tragedy is that much of the nation’s progressive Jewish community defers to Likud-like organizations, and too many Jewish donors—as with Christian Zionists —buy into fear-mongering and rationalizations for anti-Palestinian discrimination transmitted from abroad. A Jewish community once at the forefront of pushing for civil rights and equality in our own country too often today supports organizations and candidates upholding Israeli discrimination in the West Bank and East Jerusalem and, increasingly, within Israel itself.

~~~~~~

Click on link for the details:

http://www.counterpunch.org/gravel05202011.html

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By truedigger3, May 20, 2011 at 3:05 pm Link to this comment

Re: By Inherit The Wind, May 20 at 11:23 am


ITW wrote:
One of the things about Israel-haters is that they NEVER EVER EVER apply the same “rules” to other countries that they apply to Israel….......
...........
By TD3’s logic (or feeble excuse thereof) the tiny nation of Belize should be pushed out of Central America.  After all, Belize is the ONLY nation in the region where the official language is English and people speak English from birth….but they exist in the heart of the Spanish world, with Britain’s bloody history behind them (they were British Honduras).”
——————————————————————————

The difference between Bleize and your beloved Israel is like the differenc between night and day.
Israel was created, by completely cutlurally differnet central Europeans whose religion happened to be Jewish, about 63 years ago and was implanted, BY BRUTE FORCE in the heart of the Arab world, killing and terrorizing the population and explelling them from their lands and homes which resulted and is still resulting in much pain, suffering and dispair for those refugees.
Since its creation, Israel has followed expansionary agressive violent policies toward its neighbors,  encroaching on them through war of conquest and gradually snatching more and more territories from its Arab neighbors.
Since there is a VERY strong Israeli Zionist influence in the MSM, the criminal is portrayed as the victim and the victim is portrayed as the criminal??!!
Although Bleize has different language, it shares hundreds of years history with its neighborsand and has a very peaceful harmonious coexitence with them.
Does Bleize is following expansionary aggressive violent policies toward its neighbors and is snatching lands from them like your beloved Israel with its Arab neighbors.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 20, 2011 at 2:52 pm Link to this comment

I continue to believe that both sides are to blame for the continuing conflict, and that attitudes from both sides are an obstacle to a peaceful solution, but it angers me when some people are unable to see the conflict from the perspective of Palestinians and Arabs in general. It’s as if Palestinians, Arabs, and Muslims are less than human, and not worthy of any consideration.

******************

I know most people here who are totally dogmatic won’t believe this, but I actually totally agree with this insightful paragraph by JD. 

But sympathy for the Palestinians and the plight of Arabs in general does not mean one cannot feel the same for Israelis and that they are human too.

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By JDmysticDJ, May 20, 2011 at 12:39 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller

I’ll have to admit that I have taken the side of Palestinians regarding this issue. I always take the side of those I see as being oppressed, and I can not understand why others can not see the oppression. As a teenager I was exposed to the documentary series based on William Shirer’s book “the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.” The documentary was extensive and replete with film of the liberation of the Nazi Concentration Camps. Needless to say these films had a profound impact on a naïve young boy. I honestly could not understand how these kinds of atrocities could have occurred. I also read Leon Uris’s book “Exodus.” I’ve come to realize that Uris’s book was one sided and little more than a propagandist’s screed. Sadly, as I became more politically sophisticated, I came to see that the mindset that was so evident in Germany between the two world wars and before, was evident in the mindset of Israelis regarding their attitudes about Palestinians. Saying that some Israelis demonstrate a fascist mentality is unfathomable to some, but the similarities are obvious to me.

I continue to believe that both sides are to blame for the continuing conflict, and that attitudes from both sides are an obstacle to a peaceful solution, but it angers me when some people are unable to see the conflict from the perspective of Palestinians and Arabs in general. It’s as if Palestinians, Arabs, and Muslims are less than human, and not worthy of any consideration.

Clearly Hamas is an obstacle to a peaceful resolution of the conflict, and Muslim extremism and violence is the greatest detriment to guiding the Israelis to being less oppressive and more accepting of a Palestinian State.

I recently read literature from leading psychological and Psychiatric organizations regarding pathological disorders. The literature claimed that 4% to 5% of the population of our country would be diagnosed as psychopathic. Not mental disorder but psychopathic disorder devoid of empathy for fellow human beings. I’m not a psychologist or a psychiatrist, and I don’t know how accurate this information is, but it stands to reason that, whatever the percentage might be, a similar percentage of Muslims would be affected by this sinister mental disorder. It angers me that some people, because of myopic prejudicial thinking, seek to portray all Muslims as psychopaths because of the actions of a few. The article claimed that the greatest danger presented to a society because of psychopathological disorder was that the psychopathological were of above average in intelligence, socially outgoing, and expert in manipulating others. The literature’s contention was that when the psychopathological attain leadership positions the institutions that they lead will be psychopathological and devoid of human empathy. In my opinion, the contention of this literature is manifest in history, and most evident in the Fascist movements of the 20th Century. Clearly the Second World War and the Holocaust can only be explained by such a phenomenon.

I feel confident that the myopic and prejudicial will assert that Muslims are an example of such a phenomenon, but I believe the evidence shows that both sides in the conflict demonstrate symptoms of this phenomenon, and that the phenomenon is most evident in the actions of Israeli Government Policies. Muslims in their entirety are demonized and feared, not just by some in Israel, but by some in our country, and the West as well. It is this demonization that is an obstacle to a peaceful resolution. I don’t see Muslims as demons at all; I see them as being, in many respects, victims of intolerance and demonization.

Am I alone in thinking that there is a great evil threatening the world? Clearly evils are occurring. Combating this evil may seem futile to the cynical, but I believe it is our responsibility and humanitarian duty to combat this evil, in any way possible.

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By Robert, May 20, 2011 at 11:52 am Link to this comment

The Brown Daily Herald

Jonathan Ben-Artzi: Yes, apartheid


As an Israeli, I had to start planning for my military service during my senior year of high school. In Israel, interviews, medical checkups, examinations and forms are all a routine part of one’s 18th birthday. However, long before scheduling my first interview, I had already made up my mind: “I will not join the military.” I decided that I had to take a stand in the face of policies of segregation and discrimination that ravaged (and still ravage) my country and the occupied Palestinian territories.

Within Israel, these acts of segregation include towns reserved for Jews only, immigration laws that allow any Jew from around the world to immigrate but simultaneously deny displaced indigenous Palestinians that same right, and national health care and school systems that receive significantly more funding in Jewish towns than in Arab towns.

Even former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert described the situation as a “deliberate discrimination,” and added that “governments have denied [Palestinian citizens of Israel] their rights to improve their quality of life.”

The situation in the Occupied Territories is even worse.Nearly 4 million Palestinians have been living under Israeli occupation for over 40 years without basic human and civil rights. Examples include roads that are for Jews only, discrimination in water supply (Israelis use as much as four times more water than Palestinians, while Palestinians are not allowed to dig their own wells and must rely on Israeli supply) and the collective punishment of Gaza, where 1.5 million Palestinians have been living in the largest open-air prison on earth for over four years.

~~~~~~~~~~

Racism & discrimination in Israel is epidemic & rages on…and the supporters of Israel & its racist policies just keep trying to use that ole “trick” of anti-semitism/Jew haters labels. Its kind of odd…Hmmm!!!

Click on link for details from one of the few honest & conscientious Israelis with a pro-human agenda:


http://www.browndailyherald.com/
jonathan-ben-artzi-yes-apartheid-1.2236332

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By Inherit The Wind, May 20, 2011 at 11:23 am Link to this comment

One of the things about Israel-haters is that they NEVER EVER EVER apply the same “rules” to other countries that they apply to Israel.

Take TD3’s latest bigoted rant about a Jewish state existing in the midst of Arab states that are 90+% Muslim:
“Does Israel exist in LA LA LAND, up high in the sky, floating on a cloud??!! NO!, Israel exists in the heart of the Arab world, and Israel with its bloody violent aggressive history caused and causing a lot of damage, fear, worry and waste of resources for the Arabs.”

By TD3’s logic (or feeble excuse thereof) the tiny nation of Belize should be pushed out of Central America.  After all, Belize is the ONLY nation in the region where the official language is English and people speak English from birth….but they exist in the heart of the Spanish world, with Britain’s bloody history behind them (they were British Honduras)

But in the TD brain, Jews and Israel must follow an insane silly set of rules that somehow, for some squishy-brained reason, their neighbors don’t have to follow. So…Israel has to be tolerant of Muslims and give them full rights…and Jews can’t be the dominant religion—but Islam can be in 22 Muslim nations.

So…let’s start a movement to squeeze Belize out of Central America.

The point is that “rules” aren’t situational.  They either apply or don’t or else the ONLY rule is:
Might Makes Right.

4 times the Arab nations have tried to crush Israel militarily.  And failed.  Now the “Dave Bartons” of the Left are trying to paint the ‘67 war as Israeli aggression rather then the build up of armed forces on her border with the explicitly stated intention of destroying israel.

Liars.  Do you really think if Israel goes away there will be peace in the region?  NFW!

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By Leefeller, May 20, 2011 at 10:00 am Link to this comment

JD, I have seen the opposite of what you have seen, but not in my daily life, though I was raised by bigots and have the residue of hearing the word Jew used in the same light as the N word. So I am a bit on ITW’s side residue and all

Let me make it clear I have little respect for the way Israel handles itself similar to the same regard and respect I see of our fascist leaning country.

My families bigotry aside, JD you may be correct, the only anti and seemingly bigtoed attacks I see in my daily life anymore is usually here on TD, but I suspect this may depend on where one is located in this alleged great Nation of ours, I do not see racism in my daily life either, but I know it exists.

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By JDmysticDJ, May 20, 2011 at 9:01 am Link to this comment

By Inherit The Wind, May 20 at 3:43 am Link to this comment

And yet again, the thread goes from how the FUCK are Egyptians, and Tunisians and Yemenites going to fix their countries, and will Qaddaffi and Assad survive and start slaughtering insurgents by the tens of thousands, and will home-grown non-religious demands for freedom for hundreds of millions succeed to….

5 million Israelis and 4 million Palestinians.

Yet again, the dictators and would-be dictators of the Arab world will divert attention from their corruption that’s keeping their people poor and backwards to…

Israel and Palestine.

And the ultra left imbeciles at Truthdig with their one-track minds and religion-like dogma take the bait, every single time.

Is the Arab Spring about Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Yemen, and Syria? or is it about Israel and Palestine?
=============================


By Inherit The Wind, May 19 at 5:38 pm Link to this comment

“Like it or not, I’m stuck with it. So, if I’m fuckin’ paranoid, I come by it honestly!”

=============================


By my own experience, I think that truedigger3’s point is a valid one. In my personal life I have seen very little anti-Semitism. People criticize Democrats, Republicans, Liberals, Neo-cons, and a wide variety of sociological sub-groups. Are these criticisms bigoted? I suppose that the determining factor would be the validity, and nature of the criticisms.

In my social interactions with people from all social strata, I have seen what I believe is bigotry directed at Blacks, Hispanics, and Arabs frequently, but I have seen anti-Semitism very, very infrequently. The only anti-Semitism I have encountered has come from avowed neo-Nazis.

Sites such as truthdig allow people the opportunity to voice their criticisms outside of a social setting, and it is clear that many people here, you included, are opposed to Israeli Government policies. Is this criticism of Israeli Government Policies to be interpreted as anti-Semitism? Certainly your criticisms of Israeli Government Policies can not be interpreted as anti-Semitism.

The sad fact is that much of the current turmoil in the Middle East is a result of the Israeli Palestinian conflict, and the conflict has had far reaching consequences. This article about Egypt has focused on the impact of that conflict, not only in its title, but also in its content. It’s not surprising that the conflict is the subject for debate here, and although some of the comments here could be interpreted as anti-Semitism, I do not believe that anti-Semitism is at all significant in respect to those who comment here.

It’s remarkable when one realizes the Israelis and Palestinians are both of Semitic heritages. The overriding issues seem to be territorial, religious, and political, and not racial.

If one could set aside the very real horrors and consequences of the Israeli Palestinian conflict, one might compare the conflict to a conflict between squabbling toddlers; one wants the toy, and the other wants the toy back. A reasoned adult intervention seems to be in order here, but the necessary intervention seems to be marked by the adults taking sides and squabbling too.

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By Robert, May 20, 2011 at 5:35 am Link to this comment

Israeli and Palestinian Children Killed

September 29, 2000 - Present


124 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,452 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information)


The majority of these [Palestinian] children were killed and injured while going about normal daily activities, such as going to school, playing, shopping, or simply being in their homes.Sixty-four percent of children killed during the first six months of 2003 died as a result of Israeli air and ground attacks, or from indiscriminate fire from Israeli soldiers.

- Catherine Cook”


~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for details:

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/children.html

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By truedigger3, May 20, 2011 at 5:32 am Link to this comment

Re: By Inherit The Wind, May 20 at 3:43 am

ITW wrote:
“And the ultra left imbeciles at Truthdig with their one-track minds and religion-like dogma take the bait, every single time.
Is the Arab Spring about Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Yemen, and Syria? or is it about Israel and Palestine?
————————————————————————-

ITW,

Does Israel exist in LA LA LAND, up high in the sky, floating on a cloud??!! NO!, Israel exists in the heart of the Arab world, and Israel with its bloody violent aggressive history caused and causing a lot of damage, fear, worry and waste of resources for the Arabs.
Any discussions of the Arabs or what you call Arab spring, which is in reality is an Arab freezing dark winter, that does not include Israel and the Palestinian problem with its effect on the rest of the Arabs especially Israel neighbors, will be moot useless bullshit discussion.
Stop your bullshitting and obfuscation.

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By Robert, May 20, 2011 at 5:19 am Link to this comment

JDmysticDJ…Your May 19 at 6:47 pm & 6:55 pm, are great posts.

Remember Rachel Corrie, a non-violent American protester…She was crushed to death in Gaza by a 9 ton US made bulldozer driven by an Israeli IDF killer. The dozer ran over & crushed her twice…forward & reverse.

And guess what, the Israeli IDF killer did NOT serve one hour in prison…he is roaming around…Scot-free!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Israel, We Won’t Forget Rachel


By Alison Weir

Counter Punch


“On March 16th, an Israeli soldier driving a bulldozer two-stories high crushed to death 23-year-old Rachel Corrie, an American nonviolent human rights protestor. According to numerous witnesses and photographic documentation, she was killed intentionally.

Rachel and a handful of others practicing Gandhian nonviolence in the Gaza Strip had been pleading with Israeli soldiers for two hours not to destroy a Palestinian family home. Suddenly, the Israeli bulldozer operator began driving his giant bulldozer toward the home, Rachel sitting in the bulldozer’s path. Witnesses report that she then stood up on the mound of debris and dirt pushed by the bulldozer blade and looked straight at the operator through the window. He continued, and she was pulled underneath the tractor, its blade crushing her. He then backed up, running over her again, burying her deeper into the dirt.

~~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for details:

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/corrie.html

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By Go Right Young Man, May 20, 2011 at 4:42 am Link to this comment

Robert,

Apparently you don’t appreciate being questioned on your beloved Hamas and Hezbollah.

-

Obviously photographs of dead people do not prove “war crimes”.

Obviously you’ll quickly turn away from a frightened 13 year old boy about to have his head cut off. - If you do not look upon or acknowledge the horrendous act it never happened.

Obviously if the sun fails to rise in the West tomorrow “Zionists” are to blame.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 20, 2011 at 3:43 am Link to this comment

And yet again, the thread goes from how the FUCK are Egyptians, and Tunisians and Yemenites going to fix their countries, and will Qaddaffi and Assad survive and start slaughtering insurgents by the tens of thousands, and will home-grown non-religious demands for freedom for hundreds of millions succeed to….

5 million Israelis and 4 million Palestinians.

Yet again, the dictators and would-be dictators of the Arab world will divert attention from their corruption that’s keeping their people poor and backwards to…

Israel and Palestine.

And the ultra left imbeciles at Truthdig with their one-track minds and religion-like dogma take the bait, every single time.

Is the Arab Spring about Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Yemen, and Syria?

or is it about Israel and Palestine?

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By truedigger3, May 20, 2011 at 3:40 am Link to this comment

Re: By Inherit The Wind, May 19 at 5:38 pm Link to this comment

ITW wrote:

“Just cuz I’m fucking paranoid doesn’t mean the rising tide of anti-Semitism isn’t out to get me!
..

Remember the 2004 campaign, when they made a big deal of Kerry being a Jew (at least partially) when he’s Catholic?

....

Like it or not, I’m stuck with it. So, if I’m fuckin’ paranoid, I come by it honestly! “
——————————————————————————
ITW,
You are full of shit and you know it.
Now you are counteracting any criticism of Israel and its injustices and brutalities against the Palestinian people by reverting to the old classic Zionist trick of hurling accusations of anti-Semitism toward us “poor helpless Jews“.
There is no doubt that defense and these accusations doesn’t hold water any more and people are getting tired of it. There is no doubt that the Jews are not only firmly safe and secure in North America and Europe but also powerful and influential too.
If you sherry pick ,you will always find sherries to pick, and that apply to any group.
I don’t remember a big deal, at all,  is said about Kerry is partially Jew. It might had been mentioned in passing in his biography and that is all.  Almost nothing is said about Joe Lieberman of being a Jew.
A French Jew, the IMf head ,  Dominique Straus-Kahn was on his sure way to be president of France until his dick and ignorance tripped him and fell him flat on his face.  Compare that with all what have been said about John F Kennedy of him being a Catholic and loyal to the Pope and not the US. Compare that with what have been said about your beloved Obama of him being a closeted Muslim who is conspiring with terrorists! Also Romney and of him being a Mormon.
There is no doubt that anti-Semitism WAS uniquely an European phenomenon,.
Compare the long safe and prosperous history of the Jews amongst the Arabs with their bloody history in Europe with all the pogroms, inquisitions and the murderous hysteria against the Jews during the Crusades and the plagues.  Tell me, why the Arabs have to pay for the sins and shit of Europe??!!
You see my friend, there is no reason or basis, any more for your “fear” and “anxiety”!!

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By Leefeller, May 19, 2011 at 10:28 pm Link to this comment

JD, you are right, I may have subconsciously stolen your mirror imagery. I usually glean and read other posters comments helping me to form the setting of my posting responses as the mood is inspired, though the mirror imagery was not done on purpose,.... I actually had to go back and find what you where referring to. I must have been inspired by it? 

My apologies, I will attempt to be more original.

You know I recall having done this before a while back in my using the black knight from Monty Pythons The Search for the Holy Grail as an allegory.  Now that I think on it, Gebebeeiz on a cracker was actually introduced and used by a poster named Nemesis, ...I believe I was inspired to use it from his postings? I think it may be similar to picking up cuss words by association as a kid?

For instance here on TD I have seen from other posters, saying about someones point or argument by calling it a straw man, which seems to be one of Ommms favorite expressions, but I have seen it used from other posters before also. . 

The word Zionist seems to be a word ill-repute, which was bandied around here on TD like the N word, it was a tiring word used for the longest time here. Must say I do learn things here and I utilize what I learn if I can,  though plagiarizing is not my intent.

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By Robert, May 19, 2011 at 9:25 pm Link to this comment

Shulamit Aloni, Israeli minister, interviewed by Amy Goodman on DemocracyNow.


Anti-semitism is a trick, we all always use it


Shulamit Aloni,Israeli Minister, “Well its a trick…We always use it or bring up the Holocaust”

~~~~~~

Click on link to watch video/interview:


http://www.freedomflotilla.eu/en/community/videos/
video/86-Israeli+Minister+We+always+use+the+
antiSemitism+trick+or+bring+up+the+Holocaust?groupid=4

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By JDmysticDJ, May 19, 2011 at 6:55 pm Link to this comment

By Go Right Young Man, May 19 at 11:00 am Link to this comment
-
“Every Israeli citizen is afforded the same constitutional rights.

Any Israeli citizen can stand in any town square and shout anger and displeasure with the government and return home to his or her own bed at night.

Try the same in any Hamas or Hezbollah held area and he or she will be swept off the streets and beaten.

An Arab can walk down any Israeli street completely unmolested.  A Jew in Gaza or Beirut may have her head cut off then raped.”

The following is an example of town squaring.


“I was shot at close range with a high-velocity metal tear gas canister… When it hit me, it tore off a part of my scalp,” says Christopher Whitman, a 25-year-old American student and activist who was seriously injured when he was shot by Israeli forces while attending a West Bank protest on Friday. At the time of the shooting, Whitman was recording video of the weekly nonviolent protest against the Israeli separation wall in the West Bank. Several Palestinians were also injured during the protest.”

The canister was fired from a distance of 10 feet, and Christopher Whitman saw the person who fired the canister take direct aim at him. Christopher Whitman is the third American to be shot with a tear gas canister. The first was:

“California-born Tristan Anderson, 38, sustained permanent brain injury after he was shot in the head by a high velocity teargas canister fired by Israeli forces on March 13, 2009.

Despite Anderson sustaining severe injury at a civilian demonstration, the Israeli Ministry of Defense declared the incident “an act of war” and denied liability for damages—including over seven months of hospitalization and intensive reconstructive surgery to Anderson’s skull.”

The second:

“A student at New York’s Cooper Union School of Art is recovering in an Israeli hospital after being shot in the face with a tear gas canister on Monday during a demonstration at a check point between Israel and the West Bank. Emily Henochowicz, 21, lost her left eye and surgeons at Hadassah Hospital inserted three metal plates into her face Tuesday. She is now recovering with her father by her bedside.

Henochowicz, a junior at Cooper Union who is currently studying at Bezalel Academy of Arts and Design in Jerusalem, was protesting Israel’s raid of the Gaza Freedom Flotilla. According to the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), a Palestinian-led activist group with which Henochowicz volunteers, an Israeli soldier fired the tear gas projectile directly at Henochowicz.”

(More)

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By JDmysticDJ, May 19, 2011 at 6:47 pm Link to this comment

#2

There are no Jews in Gaza, the Jews in Gaza were forcibly removed by the Israelis. However, Jews recently visited Gaza.

“Eight months after the Jewish boat was kidnapped by the Israeli navy on her way to Gaza, the Jewish boat has arrived in Gaza symbolically on 14 May. Edith Lutz, co-organizer and passenger on the “Irene” brought a photo-collage of the boat to Gaza. “We are still waiting for the return of the real boat”, she says, “but it’s the arrival of the message that’s most important.” The message is: There are many Jews opposing the Israeli politics of oppression.”

Voices from Gaza:

- Nizar Aiyash, chairman of the Fishermen’s Syndicate:

“We support your mission and thank you very much for your intention to sail to Gaza. We strongly wish and hope that the next Jewish Boat will be able to arrive.”

- Emad Naserallah, Gaza Music School, Qattan Foundation:

“When living under these harsh conditions there are moments of desperation and hopelessness. When you come, we know that we are not alone, and we feel stronger.”

- Dr. Eyad AlSarraj, “Gaza Community Mental Health Programme”:

“I believe that the symbolic arrival of the boat of “Jews for Justice for Palestinians” and Jews working for peace generally is a very significant development (…) I hope that this symbolic arrival will be followed by an actual arrival of Jews working for peace and justice for Palestinians to achieve this noble goal of peace.”

Christians in Gaza see themselves as part of the Arab majority and victims of Israeli oppression. Misguided and foolish violent resistance to Israeli oppression by Hamas is met with crushing military might and collective punishment. The history of Israeli collective punishment has not been limited to Gaza.


The philosophy of an eye for eye retaliation will make everyone blind, metaphorically and actually.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 19, 2011 at 5:38 pm Link to this comment

{i]PatrickHenry, May 19 at 3:13 pm Link to this comment

You Inherit, are fucking paranoid.

Just cuz I’m fucking paranoid doesn’t mean the rising tide of anti-Semitism isn’t out to get me!

I see it every day.  I see it in the Muslim world and it breaks my heart, because Islam and Judaism are closer to each other than either are to Christianity, which also, at least in its ideal form, is pretty close.

EVERY Jew in the world with a flea’s lick of common sense is paranoid, and with good reason.  There’s a French Cardinal of the Catholic Church.  He’ll never be Pope.  Why? Because he’s the “Jewish Cardinal”.  He was born a Jew, but DESPITE devoting his life to the Catholic Church, enough so that a Pope trusted him enough to make him a Cardinal, a “Prince of The Church”, he’s STILL a fuckin’ Jew to the rest of the world!

THAT is why Jews are paranoid! Because no matter what you believe, or do, you are ALWAYS a Jew.  Trotsky was, to his enemies in the Communist Party, “The Jew” even though he totally abandoned Judaism and was a devout Marxist. 

That’s just the way it is and any Jew who lets himself or herself forget, will soon be dead. You are always a Jew, no matter what you do, because you were born a Jew.

Remember the 2004 campaign, when they made a big deal of Kerry being a Jew (at least partially) when he’s Catholic?

Like it or not, I’m stuck with it. So, if I’m fuckin’ paranoid, I come by it honestly!

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By truedigger3, May 19, 2011 at 4:01 pm Link to this comment

re: By OzarkMichael, May 19 at 12:39 pm

OzarkMichael said addressing ITW :
“You feel it coming dont you? Well, you are not alone in this. When it comes to Jews and Israel, I stand shoulder to shoulder with you and support everything you have said.
—————————————————————————

OzarkMichael,

Yeah. You want a big war in the Middle which will end with armagadon and then the “rapture” , but only for the believers in Christ and the second coming , and fire and destruction for the non believers
Your beloved “Jews and Israel” are non believers, so obviously you want them burnt and destroyed after the “rapture” with everyone else. Right!!??
I bet you and your ilk of the so called Zionist Christians are the laughing stock of the Israelis.
Don’t you think they know, eventually, you want them destroyed, but of course they don’t believe your fairy tale nonsense but they love your dollars pouring in.!
As Will Rogers said, there is a sucker born in every minute.
I am an atheist, so don’t forget to look me over in the fire pit. I am laughing!

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By PatrickHenry, May 19, 2011 at 3:13 pm Link to this comment

You Inherit, are fucking paranoid.

There are plenty of countries where Jews are safe, the U.S. being one of the main ones with England, France and alot of the European ones having Jews in major leadership positions.

The one place in the world where Jews are NOT safe is Israel because of that nations militant practices and subjugation of the Palestinians, it is a big target and very obvious.  Why would any sane person, Jewish or not, want to associate themselves with it.

I believe you correct when you condemn the many states surrounding Israel being ass backward on their civil rights towards non-muslims, but they are not as egregious as many of the posters here claim.  There are many more arab Jews in those countries than in Israel.

I am happy for the arab spring as I hope it will usher a new generation into power and hopefully promote a more pluristic democratic representation in those countries, but be warned, Israel needs to move on in regards to Palestine and the occupied territories or that youthful arab momentum demanding change in their governments will be manipulated by their hatemongers into momentum against Israel.

This is an opportunity for Israel to either prove (or improve) itself in the eyes of the world by taking the lead in Palestinian statehood or become a greater theological state than it already is, endangering the population of the Jews living there, fair minded or not.

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By OzarkMichael, May 19, 2011 at 12:39 pm Link to this comment

The anti-Israel crowd implies or even boldly proclaims that Israel is a facist and racist state which deserves whatever is coming to it. This is no ordinary disagreement, the Anti Israel crowd is using the unmistakable language of fighting against the worst evil in the world.

Anyone who voices support for Israel’s existance is now suspect. Suspected of being a bigoted fascist. That is how the Anti-Israel crowd sets up the argument. And it works too, they say you are fascist and all you can do is sputter, “Me? no, I am not a fascist,” and while defending yourself you unknowingly concede that the accusation still applies to others.

Where did the Anti Israel crowd learn such terms, where did they learn to make such extreme judgments which silence their opponents and crush dissenting opinion? The accent is familiar but i cant quite place it.

Meanwhile ITW is trying to explain how to maintain peace, and he appeals to reason. But it is interesting that ITW’s appeal to reason is taken by the anti-Israel crowd as evidence that ITW is a bigot.

I think that ITW could win some breathing space for himself by giving evidence that he is not a bigot, and I see ITW trying to do just that. Maybe he will succeed. What good will that do? In my opinion, if tomorrow ITW disagrees with them, they will forget about what he said today and they will call ITW a bigot all over again.

Let me change that last paragraph, because maybe ITW is nice and smart enough to entertain them awhile and then he can win a measure of permanent respect. They will say “Ah, ITW isnt like the other Jews, he is just misguided.”

So at best ITW can win respect and they will refrain from calling him names personally. That would be quite an accomplishment.

Let me ask you ITW, would you be proud to accomplish that? While all the other Jews are in danger and it gets worse every year would you be content to have the anti-Israel crowd make an exception for you?

Would you be content with their approval while anyone else who speaks in support of Israel’s existance is labeled “fascist and bigoted”? Will you take pleasure in the fact that you have secured your own reputation?

ITW, I ask you, wont you feel a little strange if you ever win safety for yourself but the others are all still stranded, still branded as bigots and fascists as if they deserve violent reprisals? As if their free speech needs to be curtailed?

Its coming to that, isnt it? In the name of democracy… free speech will be curtailed, and in the name of justice… violent reprisals on a massive scale against Jews will be celebrated.

This is no ordinary disagreement, the Anti Israel crowd is using the unmistakable language of fighting against the worst evil in the world. And that language prepares for and excuses any and all sorts of reprisal in the future.

You feel it coming dont you? Well, you are not alone in this. When it comes to Jews and Israel, I stand shoulder to shoulder with you and support everything you have said.

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By truedigger3, May 19, 2011 at 12:34 pm Link to this comment

By Leefeller, May 19 at 9:47 am Link to this comment

Leefeller wrote:
I” see the same never ending pointing thing with the BS in the Middle East, This constantly flagging and flogging of the Jew this or Israel that and not as much lately those damn Zionists. While the so called leaders in the Middle East are screwing their countries and people with psychopathic jubilation.”
———————————————————————————
Leefeller,

It is not that the Arabs are ignoring their own problems and concentrating on Israel.
It is that Israel is not only a big problem for them but also a serious existential threat.
Suppose you live in a neighborhood, and a thug came and evicted your neighbor and his family by force,  only with the clothes on their back, without any valid reason, killing one of your neighbor’s children in the attack and started encroaching on the other houses in the neighborhood and managing in snatching a room here, a porch there and a backyard more and probably he snatched a piece of your house and you managed to get back and may be not.
With all that worry and attention devoted to watching your thug neighbor, the education of your children will suffer, your health will suffer, the condition of your house will deteriorate from lack of resource for maintenance and scars of fighting etc …
To add insult to injury, your thug neighbor has a powerful influence on the police,  judges the local Newspaper and Television station spreading his lies,  allegations and distortions.
It is also, some of your myopic neighbors and one of your own sons started to collabrate with that thug hoping against hope that the thug will leave them alone, which will be for while until their turn come.!!
The only solution is for the thug to abondon his plans for taking over the neighborhood and negotiate in good faith with his neighbors who are willing to forget the past for a peaceful future, peaceful coexixtence and justice and compensations for the evicted neighbors’ family.
Do you get the picture.
It is not the same like the situation in the USA with all this haggling about gay marriage , abortion do we say Happy Holliday or Merry Christmas etc while looting the common people and the public Treasury.

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By Robert, May 19, 2011 at 11:43 am Link to this comment

Israel turned the Nakba into a 63-year process

Israel crowns itself as the winner in the global competition of victimhood; yet it manufactures methods of oppression and dispossession.

By Amira Hass

05/18/2011

How natural it is for Israeli spokesmen to assert that the Nakba Day marches from Syria and Lebanon were the product of incitement and foreign calculations. The state, which bases its existence on 2,000 years of longing for and belonging to this country, shows contempt toward palpable displays of belonging to and longing for the same country of those who we expelled 63 years ago - and of their descendants.”


“Every Jew in the world, whether a citizen of the U.S. or Morocco, has rights in this one country, from the river to the sea, that we denied to those who live in it today, and those who were born in it and grow old as refugees in Lebanon or Syria. And the Oslo process? Israel devised it as a stratagem to impose the solution of reservations.

Israel makes capital out of the six million to justify policies of destruction and expulsion not just in the past, but in the present and future. As the state which claims to be the heir of the Holocaust martyrs, Israel crowns itself as the winner in the global, historical competition of victimhood. Yet it manufactures methods of oppression and dispossession of the individual and the collective, methods which turn the Nakba into a continuing, 63-year process.

~~~~~~~

Click on link for the rest:

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/
israel-turned-the-nakba-into-a-63-year-process-1.362433

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By Blackspeare, May 19, 2011 at 11:40 am Link to this comment

It is quite obvious that the ME is heading towards the final
war.  BHO, in his latest speech on the “Arab Spring”, stated
that the Palestinians and Israelis must get back to
negotiations using the 1967 borders and land swaps to work
out a deal.  As soon as he mentioned land swaps it’s a non-
starter——a way out for both sides.  The Palestinians have
never conceded and believe they will eventually win by force. 
Israel may have made a fatal mistake in 1967, by stopping the
Palestinians from fleeing from the West Bank and Jerusalem to
other Arab countries namely Jordan and Syria and not annexing
the territory after that.  The influx of masses of
Palestinians into Jordan would have eventually destabilized
the Hashemite government and Jordan would today be Palestine
including Gaza and Israel would have achieved what they call
Eretz Israel.  It’s also possible that greater numbers of
Palestinians into Syria may have upset the Alawite government
much earlier.  Anyway the next war will be a beaut!!!

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By JDmysticDJ, May 19, 2011 at 11:21 am Link to this comment

Leefeller

Taking a page from Sun Tsu, I need to know if you are referring to me with your stolen mirror imagery before I attack.

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By Go Right Young Man, May 19, 2011 at 11:00 am Link to this comment

truedigger3, - “Israeli Arabs are third class citizens in Israel..”

-

Every Israeli citizen is afforded the same constitutional rights.

Any Israeli citizen can stand in any town square and shout anger and displeasure with the government and return home to his or her own bed at night.

Try the same in any Hamas or Hezbollah held area and he or she will be swept off the streets and beaten.

An Arab can walk down any Israeli street completely unmolested.  A Jew in Gaza or Beirut may have her head cut off then raped.

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By Go Right Young Man, May 19, 2011 at 10:42 am Link to this comment

Robert - “The pictures have nothing to do with Serbia…...”

-

If I am incorrect I would truly like to know.

Please tell us how you know those photographs were not taken in Serbia.  I believe they were obtained in Serbia many years ago.

-How do photographs of dead people prove “war crimes”?

-What does cutting off the head of a 13 year old boy say about Hamas?

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By Leefeller, May 19, 2011 at 9:47 am Link to this comment

Looking the other way, actually running point and calling attention to someone else’s house, while ones house is not in order, seems so apparent.  Just like the USA calling out China for human rights violations? 

And back at the ronch,... we see this constant pointing fest a continuous never ending divisiveness, attacks on womens rights, illegal aliens, attacks on Unions, public employees, dissing of working and unemployed middle class, opportunists attacking Medicare and Social Security. A never ending offensive on the unwashed masses the middle class and the poor. So people are worried about real important stuff, like gay marriage, who buggered who and the dancing of the Stars?  I see many things as classic diversions from the real issues, important issues which actually affect peoples lives…. Churning the Pork Barrel is the lard of opportunists.

I see the same never ending pointing thing with the BS in the Middle East, This constantly flagging and flogging of the Jew this or Israel that and not as much lately those damn Zionists.  While the so called leaders in the Middle East are screwing their countries and people with psychopathic jubilation.

For Gebeebiz sake, it took a fruit vendor, protesting by burning himself to death to stoke the focus and attention on the corruptions of the corrupt shit hole he was living in.  (was it Egypt?)  Ignoring ones own frocking problems seems business as usual, so focus on Israel? Take care of yur own crap folks! Scapegoat your way out of this!

We got problems right here in Lobby City and it is not only the frocking Zionists, the Jew or Israeli,... look in the mirror bunky, for the myopic biased problem may really be you!

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By ZenBowman, May 19, 2011 at 9:27 am Link to this comment

This article was intended to feel like a lovely breath of fresh air, but all the author did was confirm that nothing has changed. Once again I fully expect to see the Egyptians focus on external issues (Palestine-Israel) as their own civilization continues to crumble to dust.

In that sense they are a lot like Americans.

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By truedigger3, May 19, 2011 at 9:14 am Link to this comment

Re: By Inherit The Wind, May 19 at 8:48 am

ITW,

Didn’t I declare, in my previous post, that I am totally against any country that is based on any religion whether it was Jewish or Christian or Muslim or Hindu etc etc ...
I thought that was more than enough.
I didn’t mention the Taliban or Iran specifically because we were talking about Israel which claims it is a model for Democracy in the M.E. Ha Balony.!
By the way, Israeli Arabs are third class citizens in Israel, first class are Eshkinazi Jews, second class are Sephardim and Arab Jews.
I think ITW, you are doing it again of trying your old tricks of throwing false accusations.
You are the one who is phony and a bullshit artist to boot.!

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By Inherit The Wind, May 19, 2011 at 8:54 am Link to this comment

And this is EXACTLY what every Arab leader wants: A mis-direction from their own corruption, incompetence, and cruelty, by directing fools to worry about Israel, and not their own nation and leaders.

If the Arab Spring can be directed to concentrate on Israel and Palestine rather than the nations it’s happening in, then, yet again, reform efforts in the Arab world WILL fail.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 19, 2011 at 8:48 am Link to this comment

You guys are such fuckin’phonies.
There cannot be ONE nation on earth where Jews are safe, but you pretend there are no Muslim nations.  You pretend that Iran happily recognizes all religions and tout phony stats to “prove”  it, yet it’s clear that Iran is run by a RELIGIOUS COUNCIL.  The Taliban who ran Afghanistan made disagreeing with state policy HERESY!  In Egypt, if someone converts from Islam to Christianity they are condemned by fatwa to death, and NOTHING is done by the courts or police to prevent it. Libya has long been a strictly Muslim state.

In Lebanon, while religious freedom is protected by law, better make out your will if you offend Hezbolah, ‘cuz they will kill you.

In fact, in nearly EVERY Muslim-dominated nation on earth, non-Muslims are third or 4th class citizens…Why? Because the WRONG type of Muslim is 2nd class.

As usual, you phonies hold Israel to a standard you refuse to hold her neighbors to.  Why is that?

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By truedigger3, May 19, 2011 at 8:34 am Link to this comment

Re: By PatrickHenry, May 19 at 3:36 am

PatrickHenry,

I agree with you 100%.
Establishing a contry as Jewish or Muslim or Christian or Hindu etc etc is an affront to Democracy and equality under the law.
Does not it that the very first fundumental of civil rights is, all citizens have the same rights regardless of religion, ethnicity, national origin gender etc etc…
How Israel has the audacity to claim that it is a model for democracy and in the same time treat some of its own citizens who HAVE Isreali Citizenship as a second class citizens with all kind of special laws and restrictions applied only to them. Real farce.

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By truedigger3, May 19, 2011 at 8:33 am Link to this comment

Re: By PatrickHenry, May 19 at 3:36 am


PatrickHenry,

I agree with you 100%.
Establishing a contry as Jewish or Muslim or Christian or Hindu etc etc is an affront to Democracy and equality under the law.
Does not it that the very first fundumental of civil rights is, all citizens have the same rights regardless of religion, ethnicity, national origin gender etc etc…
How Israel has the audacity to claim that it is a model for democracy and in the same time treat some of its own citizens who HAVE Isreali Citizenship as a second class citizens with all kind of special laws and restrictions applied only to them. Real farce.

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By JDmysticDJ, May 19, 2011 at 8:16 am Link to this comment

Sub-human Cretin

What’s the point in answering your moronic questions? The answers to your moronic questions come instantly, no contemplation is necessary. Only moronic sub-human cretins see any profundity in your moronic questions; everyone else recognizes them as being moronic. It is obvious to me that you will never cease your moronic thinking, and that you have a terminal case or moronic thinking, and that you will die a sub-human cretin, so why should any intelligent person bother with your moronic questions?

Referring to photographs that chronicle horrific acts, as “duckshoot” photographs reveal you to be a sub-human cretin. Dead bodies are, in fact, a product of the crimes of war, only a moron would not recognize that fact.

Go to the nearest mirror and study your reflection. You’ll see a moron, a sub-human cretin, an obstacle to peace in the Middle East, and finally, a counterpart to Hamas violence.

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By Robert, May 19, 2011 at 7:33 am Link to this comment

By Go Right Young Man, May 19 at 3:38 am


“Robert,

-What has all these duckshoot photographs of the deaths caused by fighting in Serbia to do with Israel?”

~~~~~~~~~

GRYM…

Your deranged & deceptive zionist propaganda “hasbara” attempts are so shallow & GRIM...

The pictures have nothing to do with Serbia & your beloved Israel. They are images of slaughtered Palestinian children, little girls, boys, women & much more…

THE MASSIVE BOMBARDMENTS, THE WHITE PHOSPHORUS, THE MASSIVE AMERICAN MADE WEAPONS ON A MOSTLY UNARMED CIVILIAN POPULATION IN GAZA BY ISRAEL WAS NOT A WAR…

The Palestinians do NOT have tanks, fighter jets, canons, white phosphorus, sophisticated drones, missiles…etc…

I strongly condemn the killing of all innocent civilians…on all fronts.

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By Go Right Young Man, May 19, 2011 at 3:38 am Link to this comment

Robert,

-What has all these duckshoot photographs of the deaths caused by fighting in Serbia to do with Israel?

-Also, how do photographs of dead people prove “war crimes” by anyone?

-Also, what does cutting off the head of a 13 year old boy say about Hamas?

-

I ask only that you think for a few minutes about the questions I ask and attempt your best answers.

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By PatrickHenry, May 19, 2011 at 3:36 am Link to this comment

Inherit

Do I want Israel to survive, and survive as the ONE SINGLE HAVEN for Jews in the world?  Yes.

While, I agree with the rest of your post, I do not agree with the recognition of Israel as ‘a Jewish state’, as you imply.

It is an insult to the non Jews who work and live there and promotes Jewish exceptionalism in a world evolving to democracy.

Many of the arab countries have a long way to go compared to Israel but I put the onus on Israel to demonstate democracy by example other than exclusion.

The right of return is also a sticking point with me in that it allows persons who happen to be Jewish, exclusive rights over those who are not, especially in the cases of international criminal flight and prosecution of crimes coupled with the inability to extradite criminals from Israel once they get there.

Israel as a democratic state I can agree with, Israel as a Jewish state I cannot.

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By Robert, May 18, 2011 at 7:19 pm Link to this comment

GRYM…

You’ll just have to face the GRIM facts of these “very disturbing” photos from Gaza. Your beloved Israel/IDF/Zionist Killers left these images behind… 

~~~~~~~~~~

NOTE: VERY DISTURBING PHOTOS


Horrific Evidence 0f Israel’s War Crimes in Gaza

Pictures the Mainstream Media Refuses to Publish


http://theduckshoot.com/gazaphotos.html

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By Go Right Young Man, May 18, 2011 at 6:16 pm Link to this comment

Robert, - Just look at the photos, they speak volumes.

Hamas once released photo’s of an 13 yr. old settler after Hamas members boasted of cutting his head off. 

What does that tell us in volumes?  Hamas culture at its finest…..?

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By Robert, May 18, 2011 at 3:11 pm Link to this comment

Just look at the photos, they speak volumes. Israel and Israeli culture at its finest…..


“A New York zionist group is planning a ‘Run For Apartheid’ this coming June 5th…. under the guise of ‘celebrating Israel and Israeli culture….


The participants might be interested in seeing how Palestinian children, both in the Occupied West Bank and Gaza, run FROM apartheid…. every day of their lives…. just look at the photos, they speak volumes. Israel and Israeli culture at its finest…..


Might be a good idea to print out these photos and put them on placards to display along the route of the run….. show the zios the REAL picture of Israel and Israeli culture.


http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/
2011/05/18/running-for-and-from-apartheid-
not-such-pretty-photos/

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By Inherit The Wind, May 18, 2011 at 2:36 pm Link to this comment

TD3:
Do you ever actually READ what I post, or do you just stop reading and “fill in” the rest?

There’s a reason JD referenced me.  See if you can figure out why that was.

Let me put it simply for you:

Do I want Israel to survive, and survive as the ONE SINGLE HAVEN for Jews in the world?  Yes.

Do I want Israel to be a fascist state run by a Taliban-equivalent ultra-Orthodoxy who see anyone who doesn’t follow them EXACTLY, black hats and sheitels or else is an infidel or abomination? No, of course not.

Do I want to see a free Palestine where Palestinians can finally live in peace and prosper? Of course.

Do I want to see a safe and secure Israel that can live in peace and prosper?  Of course.

I’ve said this many times: I want to see Middle Eastern Union similar to the EU where you must be a modern European-type democracy to be a member, and that such an MEU should include, to start, Israel, Lebanon, Palestine, and maybe even Egypt.  And, if Turkey cannot get into the EU, then even Turkey.

These are traditionally the most educated and forward thinking peoples in the ME.  They would be a magnet.

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By truedigger3, May 18, 2011 at 11:35 am Link to this comment

Re: By Inherit The Wind, May 18 at 3:29 am

I knew it! It is VERY HARD, but not impossible, to discuss anything with you about your beloved Israel and get any uderstanding. You are blinded by your emotions coupled with the Zionist propoganda and continuous lying that fill the MSM and many of the so called progressive web-sites. But at least you are not a hopeless case like the TROLLS and chronic liars and Arab haters, chief among them: GRYM, Nefesh, Howard and walterbard…etc.

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By truedigger3, May 18, 2011 at 11:16 am Link to this comment

Re: By JDmysticDJ, May 18 at 5:55 am


JDmysticDJ,
That was an excellent informative analogy to the situation. That was good contribution against these floods and avalanches of the Zionist propoganda, misiformation and disinformation that fills MSM and many of the so called progressive web-sites.

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By JDmysticDJ, May 18, 2011 at 9:28 am Link to this comment

Addendum to below:

Chomsky says the renowned Judeo/Christian prophets were rejected in their day, and he compares them to dissident intellectuals. That’s my conception of Beegeebus, a dissident intellectual.

Moses was an anomaly; anyone who can part the Red Sea has got to be an anomaly.

(Naw, I don’t think Moses parted the Red Sea; that would make me a moron, and a sub-human cretin.)

Now, all you sub-human cretins leave me alone.

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By JDmysticDJ, May 18, 2011 at 9:20 am Link to this comment

“Rabbi Aharon Cohen, an Orthodox Jew and a leading member of the anti-Zionist Neturei Karta movement, had an explosive device placed in his mail box - payback it seems for attending a Manchester demo to protest Israeli actions in Gaza.”

“Rabbi Elchenon Beck in company with six other rabbis attended a rally outside the Israeli Embassy on January 6 to express their solidarity with the Palestinians of Gaza. On the way home from the rally they were set upon by assailants described by the rabbi as Zionists.”

Sensitive ground here, but I must say, broad brushing any race, creed, or belief is not conducive to peace and harmony. Sub-human cretins seem to abound, but sub-human cretins are not all inclusive of all races, creeds, or beliefs. To me, “Fanatics” is the key word in Inherit The Wind’s comment.

To me it’s all metaphysical, Darwinian Theory might be able to track the origin of species, but it’s not able to track the origin of the first bit of matter.

Paraphrasing my man Chomsky, “How can I say if I’m an atheist, I don’t know what an atheist is; it’s metaphysical.”
 
Chomsky says the renowned Judeo/Christian prophets were rejected in their day, and he compares them to dissident intellectuals. That’s my conception of Beegeebus, a dissident intellectual.

Moses was an anomaly; anyone who can part the Red Sea has got to be an anomaly.

(Naw, I don’t think Moses parted the Red Sea; that would make me a moron, and a sub-human cretin.)


Now, all you sub-human cretins leave me alone.

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By JDmysticDJ, May 18, 2011 at 8:57 am Link to this comment

“Rabbi Aharon Cohen, an Orthodox Jew and a leading member of the anti-Zionist Neturei Karta movement, had an explosive device placed in his mail box - payback it seems for attending a Manchester demo to protest Israeli actions in Gaza.”

“Rabbi Elchenon Beck in company with six other rabbis attended a rally outside the Israeli Embassy on January 6 to express their solidarity with the Palestinians of Gaza. On the way home from the rally they were set upon by assailants described by the rabbi as Zionists.”

Sensitive ground here, but I must say, broad brushing any race, creed, or belief is not conducive to peace and harmony. Sub-human cretins seem to abound, but sub-human cretins are not all inclusive of all races, creeds, or beliefs.

To me it’s all metaphysical, Darwinian Theory might be able to track the origin of species, but it’s not able to track the origin of the first bit of matter.

Paraphrasing my man Chomsky, “How can I say if I’m an atheist, I don’t know what an atheist is; it’s metaphysical.”
 
Chomsky says the renowned prophets were rejected in their day, and he compares them to dissident intellectuals. He also expresses approval for Latin American Liberation Theology.

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By TDoff, May 18, 2011 at 8:26 am Link to this comment

We here in the US certainly do not need any more problems, but…

What do you think is going to happen when the Arab Spring results in the Palestinians driving the Zionists out of the ersatz ‘Jewish Homeland’ they’ve been occupying for the past half-century-plus?

Either the Israelis are going to commence the Mother of all Wars, the big, last, Nuclear One (in which case forget everything, we’re gone, don’t bother reading on), or

The displaced Zionists are going to be floating around on the seas, late 1930’s early 1940’s redux, looking for a place to land. And where are they going to beach?

Either Miami or Beverly Hills, or both, are the most likely landfalls. So, once the new eternal conflict between the Muslims/Arabs and the Jews in the Holy Lands is ended, the world will get back to normal in the US of A, with the old eternal conflict between the Christians and the Jews re-commencing, with Rabbis and Priests fighting daily duels with swords and daggers on Rodeo Drive and Palm Beach Boulevard.

And we non-religious folk will wonder, ‘WTF was ‘god’ thinking? (or drinking?)’

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By Robert, May 18, 2011 at 8:20 am Link to this comment

Israel is killing children

This is from a while back, but his words are just as true today as they were then.

~~~~~~~~

Click on link to view/listen to Dennis Kusinich - Israel is killing children with your American tax dollars:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBZVOR80jnk

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By Robert, May 18, 2011 at 8:00 am Link to this comment

May 18, 2011

A Taste of the Future?
Israel in a Strategic Dead End

By JONATHAN COOK

Nazareth

They are extraordinary scenes. Film shot on mobile phones captured the moment on Sunday when at least 1,000 Palestinian refugees marched across no-man’s land to one of the most heavily protected borders in the world, the one separating Syria from the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights.

Waving Palestinian flags, the marchers braved a minefield, then tore down a series of fences, allowing more than 100 to run into Israeli-controlled territory. As they embraced Druze villagers on the other side, voices could be heard saying: “This is what liberation looks like.”

Unlike previous years, this Nakba Day was not simply a commemoration of the catastrophe that befell the Palestinians in 1948, when their homeland was forcibly reinvented as the Jewish state. It briefly reminded Palestinians that, despite their long-enforced dispersion, they still have the potential to forge a common struggle against Israel.

As Israel violently cracked down on last Sunday’s protests on many fronts—in the West Bank, Gaza, Jerusalem and on the borders with Syria and Lebanonit looked less like a military superpower and more like the proverbial boy with his finger in the dam.

The Palestinian “Arab Spring” is arriving and Israel has no diplomatic or politicacookl strategy to deal with it. Instead on Sunday, Israel used the only weapon in its current arsenal—brute force—against unarmed demonstrators.

Along the northern borders, at least 14 protesters were killed and dozens wounded, both at Majdal Shams in the Golan and near Maroun al-Ras in Lebanon.

In Gaza, a teenager was shot dead and more than 100 other demonstrators wounded as they massed at crossing points. At Qalandiya, the main checkpoint Israel created to bar West Bank Palestinians from reaching Jerusalem, at least 40 protesters were badly injured. There were clashes in major West Bank towns too.

And inside Israel, the country’s Palestinian minority took their own Nakba march for the first time into the heart of Israel, waving Palestinian flags in Jaffa, the once-famous Palestinian city that has been transformed since 1948 into a minor suburb of Tel Aviv.”

~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for the rest of details…Israel and its IDF “KILLERS” murders Palestinians/Arabs/Moslems/Christians/Jews and blames it on Iran, Syria…and so on…that is their zionist “hasbara”:

http://www.counterpunch.org/cook05182011.html

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By Inherit The Wind, May 18, 2011 at 7:59 am Link to this comment

Seems like Howard’s cleric and JD’s rabbi are brothers cut from the same cloth.

As far as I’m concerned both sons-of-bitches can rot in hell.  They show clearly that religious fanatics who think God is on their side bring more unnecessary suffering into this world than anything else mankind has created.

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By sharonsj, May 18, 2011 at 7:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It’s pretty ironic that Egypt feels such compassion for the plight of the Palestinians when they helped create that plight in the first place.  If Egypt and four other Arab countries hadn’t declared war on Israel, there would be no Palestinians refugees.

Meanwhile, for the decades that Egypt was in control of Gaza, the last thing they wanted was for any Palestinians to move into Egypt.  They still tightly control the border between them and last I read Egypt was building a wall—the same kind of wall Israel is building—to keep the Palestinians out. 

This may have changed with the “Arab Spring,” but it appears that the fight for human rights only applies to Muslim men.  The usual call for “death to Israel” hasn’t changed.

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By Asmah, May 18, 2011 at 7:55 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“There is no one here who does not want a free Palestine, and somehow this will be done, and then what?—”
Justice will be served

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By Inherit The Wind, May 18, 2011 at 7:54 am Link to this comment

I don’t get it AS:

You can bullshit as well the rest of us sons-of-bitches!

( smile )

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By JDmysticDJ, May 18, 2011 at 7:51 am Link to this comment

“Shas spiritual leader Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef wished death upon the head of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) and his people in the backdrop of the opening of direct peace negotiations this coming Wednesday. In his weekly address this past Shabbat, Rabbi Yosef said, ’May our enemies and those who hate us all die, Abu Mazen and all these evil people, they should be gone from this world. May the Holy One Blessed be He strike them down with plague, them and those Palestinians, evil ones and enemies of Israel.’”

“Around and around we go, where she stops, nobody knows.”

“The merry-go-round goes ‘round and ‘round,

So many were going ‘round and ‘round,
That the merry-go-round collapsed.”

“Ring around the rosy

Ashes, ashes
We all fall down”

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By Leefeller, May 18, 2011 at 7:46 am Link to this comment

As someone who does not have a dogma in this fight, I find both sides seemingly full of hate. Somehow if the tide was turned I do not know how the underdogs would change their dogma? For it has always been dogma eat dogma!

I suspect hate is cultivated to serve its purpose, we see it here in the USA between partisanship, we see it against the Muslims on the MSM, we see it against the Jewish people from individuals and some in the MSM. Most simpletons will pick a side like their home team and go with it.

Life is not so simple sometimes,... actually most of the time…I suspect this constant animosity is cultivated for nefarious reasons.

History proves the Jewish people have been ruthlessly persecuted many times and at times have been ruthless themselves. What does this mean, not sure, but I suspect it means history repeats itself? 

I will not be part of bashing either side, so please take your dogmas home and house break them.

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By Arabian Sinbad, May 18, 2011 at 7:05 am Link to this comment

I just want the “censors” at Truthdig to tell me why they, in more than one occasion, have censored my posts for containing words such as “bullshit” and “son of a bitch,” when I keep reading such words and worse used by other posters!!!

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By Howard, May 18, 2011 at 6:22 am Link to this comment

Following are excerpts from an interview with Hamas
MP and cleric Yunis Al-Astal, which aired on Al-Aqsa
TV on May 11, 2011 (courtesy of MEMRI):
——————————————————————-

Yunis Al-Astal: The [Jews] are brought in droves to
Palestine so that the Palestinians – and the Islamic
nation behind them – will have the honor of
annihilating the evil of this gang.

…All the predators, all the birds of prey, all the
dangerous reptiles and insects, and all the lethal
bacteria are far less dangerous than the Jews.

…In just a few years, all the Zionists and the
settlers will realize that their arrival in Palestine
was for the purpose of the great massacre, by means
of which Allah wants to relieve humanity of their
evil.

…When Palestine is liberated and its people return
to it, and the entire region, with the grace of
Allah, will have turned into the United States of
Islam, the land of Palestine will become the capital
of the Islamic Caliphate, and all these countries
will turn into states within the Caliphate.

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By walterbard, May 18, 2011 at 6:02 am Link to this comment

I’m sure the Darfun refugees gunned down at the Egyptian border when trying to get into
“apartheid” Israel and those gunned down in Cairo, and the persecuted Coptic Christians
would appreciate this polemic that passes itself off as journalism. Of course all the corruption
and tyranny in every Arab country has been created by Israel even before Israel existed.
Israel created all the refugee camps in Jordan, Lebanon, where the Jordanians who call themselves
Palestinians were forced to live for years. Yes, the occupation of Gaza and Hebron should end immediately. It’s been going since 1929 when the Grand Muftui, Amin Husyani incited the wailing
wall massacres that forced Jews to leave their historical lands. And just look at those poor
Moslems living in Israel! They suffer with full Israeli citizenship and freedom of worship.
Oh of course a million jews weren’t driven out penniless from every Arab country, thousands
were forced out of Egypt.Of course Israel had the affront to accept the UN partition plan of 1947 that the Arabs rejected while vowing to push the Jews into the sea. But that’s ok, as long as they’re Jews,
but if Arabs flee from a war they started, “oh the humanity of it”
What bullshit

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By JDmysticDJ, May 18, 2011 at 5:55 am Link to this comment

Pretzel Logic

Two neighbors were living in relative harmony for a number of years, until a thug, using brute force, evicted one of the neighbors and took possession of the neighbor’s property. The thug claimed that the eviction was just and right because his ancestors had killed the previous occupants thousands of years ago and taken possession of the property. The thug then criticized the non-evicted neighbor for not giving up his home to the evicted neighbor.

Much disagreement then ensued, but there was one point of agreement in the neighborhood. That being that the thug was a sub-human cretin.

Epitaph:

Some of the thug’s children are sympathetic to the plight of the neighbors, and are quite embarrassed by their father’s behavior. Sadly, the neighborhood is in much turmoil. The thug frequently gets drunk, which leads to further incidents of brutal behavior. The thug continues to encroach and steal, while rebuking all efforts to resolve the dispute.

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By Go Right Young Man, May 18, 2011 at 5:53 am Link to this comment

ITW - The Right is a “rising racist movement”.

-

Only a true bigot would conjure up such images. 

ITW needs to learn one lesson well.  Humans are human all over the planet.  Only small-minded bigots and hate-filled racists believe otherwise.

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By Arabian Sinbad, May 18, 2011 at 4:33 am Link to this comment

This article by Lauren Uger-Geoffroy is a fresh breath of good journalism where she reports her observations without trying to mold the news according to a particular ideological bent or pretend to be an opinion molder. Additionally, I like her subtle sense of humor in dotting her piece with colloquial Egyptian Arabic expressions!

What I don’t like, however, is to see the names of all those Zionist shells and nuts getting a chance to spew their usual venom and misleading propaganda in reaction to such detached reporting.

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By Howard, May 18, 2011 at 3:57 am Link to this comment

The last post by GO RIGHT YOUNG MAN….

explains accurately where a lot of the
blame for today’s crisis in the Mid East
lies.

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By PatrickHenry, May 18, 2011 at 3:32 am Link to this comment

The Palestinians have finally changed tactics as a whole (less a few malcontents) to non violent protest and demonstration.  It is a welcome change and one which tells the world they are ready for statehood.

The Israelis however have not changed their tactics of shoot first, make excuses later.  Their continuing manevolence towards the unarmed Palestinians will escalate world opinion against them and strengthen the internal Israeli opposition to the occupied territories and Palestinian mistreatment.

Even the U.S. public will not tolerate nightly broadcasts of innocent unarmed protesters killed in Palestine for long.

I disagree with TD3’s assessment that the May 15 march and flotilla are isolated incidents ended by Israels killing of protesters.  Martyrs live and breath to be involved in history making events as this and I believe these recent episodes are just the beginning and will grow until Israel acquieses to allowing the Palestinian state.

“The tree of Liberty miust be watered with the blood of patriots from time to time”

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By Inherit The Wind, May 18, 2011 at 3:29 am Link to this comment

TD3:
You are starting to sound like GRYM with:
“Stop the war-mongering” at everyone you disagree with, as he says “Stop the bigotry” at anyone who calls the Right the rising racist movement it is.

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By truedigger3, May 17, 2011 at 11:36 pm Link to this comment

Re: By Inherit The Wind, May 17 at 7:50 pm

The march to the Israeli borders that you are hollering and jumping up and down about, did happen already May, 15 and was composed of few thousand marchers.
when some of the marchers tried to cross the borders, several were shot by the Israelis killing and wounding few marchers and that was the end of the story. If that flotilla you are talking about will occure, another few will be shot and that will be the end of that episode too.
The Egyptian authorities forbade and prevented few thousands Egyptian marchers from going to Sinai to take part in the marches which was very wise decision.
Patrik Henry is not always right.!
There could not be better times for your beloved Israel than current times. Israel has the backing and support and protection of the only Super power in the world and the Eu. All its neighbours are in termoil and on shaky grounds. What else more do you want!.
Your beloved Israel most likely will take that opportunity and contrive another war to gain more territory.
Again, please stop that panic and war-mongering.

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By Go Right Young Man, May 17, 2011 at 9:05 pm Link to this comment

Isn’t the point of Palestinian National Authority President, Mahmoud Abbas, requesting statehood within the forum of the United Nations confirmation that a Palestinian state never previously existed on those lands?

If I understand my history the epicenter of the famed and known “Palestinian State” is currently known as Jordan.

Clearly the West Bank and Gaza, until recent days, has been governed by both Jordan and Egypt.  Never was there talk of, not even the concept of, a Palestinian State on those lands.

How is it thinkable that the surrounding Arab nations are not, if not more complicit, equally complicit in the decades long horrific conditions of those living in the West Bank and Gaza?

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By Howard, May 17, 2011 at 8:33 pm Link to this comment

The one basic truth that must be faced is that the tragedy of the Palestinains’s was created by the refusal of the Arab nations to recognize the right of Israel to exist and by their attempt to destroy the Israeli state, beginning at birth.

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By Robert, May 17, 2011 at 8:15 pm Link to this comment

I Do Not Believe That A Palestinian Killed Vittorio Arrigoni

Gilad Atzmon


We should bear in mind that Israel is horrified by the tidal wave of Palestinian solidarity. It is aware of the 40 countries strong ‘breaking the siege Flotilla’ that is planned to embark soon.

Israel is desperate to intimidate us all.

But we are determined. We will keep fighting. We will expose Israeli crimes and ‘tricks’.  We will bring this murderous racist state down.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on link to watch video…Vittorio Arrigoni:

http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/i-do-not-
believe-that-a-palestinian-killed-vittorio-arrigoni.html

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By Inherit The Wind, May 17, 2011 at 7:50 pm Link to this comment

You know what I dislike about you, TD? You think rules only apply to people you disagree with.

I’m getting “hysterical”?

Yet here’s my friend Patrick Henry’s take on it—his, NOT MINE!

“Israel better sit up and take notice and find a way to resolve the Palestinian issue.

I think the Arabs and non-Arabs of many nations will soon send a flotilla fleet and march un-armed on Palestine to achieve an end to this Israel induced misery.

If Israel kills any of them, they’ve won. “

Just what WILL happen if PH’s vision occurs?

I’ll tell you what: A blood bath, a really cataclysmic blood bath. I’m sure that there are fanatics on both sides who say “You can’t make an omelet without breaking eggs”, of course, meaning that the “omelets” are people, “unimportant” people to the “important” ones.

We’ve seen what a Qaddaffi can do when threatened. Do you really think Netanyahu is worse than that? HOW????

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By TDoff, May 17, 2011 at 7:28 pm Link to this comment

sharonsj, why didn’t you selectively quote:

“TDoff- ‘Netanyahoo’s panties are twisted’” and then do a dissertation on my analysis of Bennie’s sexual fetishes and practices?

BTW, 100% of the world’s current serious conflicts involve the US against everyone else. Except the major cause of problems in the Middle East, Israeli Zionists.

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