Yesterday, I had two post in this thread, which were posted, then today, my two poosts are gone??
I am baffled. Nothing was out of line in these two posts.
Is it censorship? then why? I thought there was no censorship in truthdig!

By swanto sez, “Doctor Belt High:What rubbish you write! You are so desperate to make events everywhere conform to your pre-conceived notions.”

Recorded history and personal experience are not accurately termed “pre-conceived notions.”  However, hired pimps and spin-doctors have their own idiosyncratic way with words and propaganda. Their ignorance of history, and lack of realistic, personal experience is surpassed only by their short-sighted stupidity.

By swanto sez: Please, lets skip another doom and gloom litany…

Doom and gloom litanies are where the U.S.A. has been for sixty years at
least. The nice-sounding litanies that describe the opposite of that
which is actually happening, is the downfall of the U.S.A. For example,
Obama´s promises vs. Obama´s actions.

My original blog was published about seven hours ago, and published
under “Dispatches From Cairo: Keeping Up With Egypt”. However, it is no
longer displayed, thus was removed. And someone wrote that Truthdig does
not monitor blogs?  Then the question arises, WHO DUNIT ?
Change 1?

“Clearly, there are elements present in Egypt who understand very well
what democracy is.”  swanto sez

Certainly. That´s why the “google marketing manager” organized the
protest, to identify them, report back to his kingpins in D.C., then turn
over the “protest” to the U.S.-trained military leaders. Thus, the wiser
of the “democratic elements” who are still alive, enjoying quasi-freedom,
became anonymous.

Igor Slamoff

Irael will never become a democratic country. The population is so brainnwashed by this zionist horseshit that they are not even capable of grasping the meaning of the word freedom. They claim they’re for democracy, but they also support persecution of Palestinians, murder, imposition of Jewish law and the rest of it. Zionism is a totalitarian ideology. Consequently few Israelis can ever be real democrats. Democracy is a Western concept. They will merely get a newfangled dictatorship.

Doctor Belt High:

What rubbish you write! You are so desperate to make
events everywhere conform to your pre-conceived
notions.

“Clearly, there are elements present in Egypt who understand very well
what democracy is.”  swanto sez

Certainly. That´s why the “google marketing manager” organized the
protest, to identify them, report back to his kingpins in D.C., then turn
over the “protest” to the U.S.-trained military leaders. Thus, the wiser
of the “democratic elements” who are still alive, enjoying quasi-freedom,
became anonymous, neither writing articles for Truthdig nor blogging.

truthdigger:

my question, for the THIRD TIME, do you deny that there
are ANY elements in Egypt that understand what
democracy is?

Please, lets skip another doom and gloom litany…...

Re: By swanto sez, April 22 at 10:02 pm Link to this comment

swanto wrote addressing me:
“Do you deny that there are elements in Egypt that understand democracy very well..”
———————————————————————————

swanto,

Right now in Egypt, the only political groups that are well organized and financed are the two radical Islamist groups: 1) The Muslim Brotherhood. 2) The Salafyeen.
The secular parties and groups are disorganised and in short of finance thanks to many years of Mubarak clamp down.
The only party, that would have been able to stand against them in the next election, in September, would have been Mubarak’s Party, The National Democratic Party, but that party was dissolved few days ago by the military rulers because of pressure from the Islamists.
It was hoped that the military rulers will allow a transition period, for may be, couple of years to give a chance for the secular parties to organize before any election, but NO, the next election is in September this year. 
The army is yielding bit by bit to most of the Islamist demands and that is a very bad omen.
Many Egyptians are simple people who are uneducated or minimally educated and they fall prey, very easily, to religious rhetoric and demagoguery, and there is a big chance, if the elections are held in September that the Islamists will win and that will bode for a very troubled future for Egypt.
I hope that I am wrong and time well tell.

truthdigger:

why did you direct these comments to me? Do you deny
that there are elements in Egypt that understand
democracy very well, or was it in response to an
earlier comment?

Re: By swanto sez, April 22 at 5:03 pm
Re: By Igor Slamoff, April 22 at 7:57 am

Igor and swanto,

The “revolution” in Egypt has devolved into a very disasterous situation.
There is a feeling of total anarchy, break down of law and order, respect for police and authority.  The economy is in stand still situation.  There is a sharp rise in violent street crimes, secterian and religious strife.
The Generals who are ruling the country now are very incompotent and inept as a rulers of a country with such myriad problems like Egypt. Those Generals might be very good experts in military stuff, but definitely they are very weak, ineffective and indecisive rulers.
The Muslim religion like all religions is elastic and full of conradictions. It can be interpreted differently by different people in different situations,  circumstances and cultures.
Turkey is a Muslim country with a secular system of government and fairly good Democracy.
After the “revolution” in Egypt, there was a sharp rise in the influence and daring of the radical reactionary Islamist groups in Egypt. Some of them are very reactionary and some are just reactionary and they all want to transform Egypt into theocratic state where women and other religious minorities will be second class citizens. The Generals are very timid and accomidating toward these groups which is omen.
If I was a believer I would have prayed to “God” to help and guide Egypt and the Egyptian people. It does NOT look good and time will tell.

IGOR-

you tar with a broad brush. Clearly, there are elements
present in Egypt who understand very well what
democracy is.

swanto sez:  Greetings!  Goodbye.

Gerard=

you clearly did not understand my criticism.

You said: (more or less) ” I am amazed at the lack of
vision….....”

You said that, not me. Your response seems to
indicate that you are addressing yourself to remarks
I made about being amazed.

Your remarks suggest that YOU have the vision lacking
everywhere else. That is, that you are superior.

The details you provide to substantiate that claim,
vague remarks about the EPA, security agencies, and
oer-reaching militarists, do not convince me that
your claims to a superior vision are correct.

Moreover, they are off topic as are most of the rants
posted here. They add nothing to the discussion of
the article you are commenting on. Rather, the
article seems to be only an excuse for you and others
to trot out your pet theories.

I would challenge you to point to a single comment
that actually advances our understanding of the
issues addressed by this article.

If you try to do that what you will find is a
masturbatory exercise totally devoid of serios
intellectual content- and why sites like “truth"dig
are chiefly useful as examples of why this particular
brand of liberal rubbish has led to the precipitous
decline that liberal thinking now enjoys.

Simply show this drivel to any decent and intelligent
American, and you will learn why we are living in the
most right wing country among the G20.

If you are happy with situation, please to continue
to discredit the great causes that liberalism has
represented by identifying it with such puerile,
adolescent rubbish.

swanto sez:  I guess you will have to explain your question to me because I can’t catch what you mean:
  “why are you amazed? Surely you don’t believe that any among those “agencies” can approach you?”
  Things I don’t understand: 
  Your meaning of “agencies” and “can approach you”—particularly which agencies, what do you mean by “approach”. 
  Here’s what I had in mind, for instance: I am amazed at:
  1. Absurd behavior of EPA etc. in not clamping down on polluters
  2. Absurd behavior of financial institutions cheating to put poor and middle people out of their
homes.
  3. Absurd behavior of surveillance agencies falling all over themselves trying to keep track of the kind of toothpaste used by Mr. Jones and whether he bought it from a “terrorist” etc. etc. ridiculous gum-shoe activities, doubling and redoubling each other.
  It’s all useless, expensive and counter-productive, in my opinion (which I am entitled to, by the way.  As to the “validity” of my opinions—it seems these days that even the most “invalid” opinions carry lots of weight—for example, if you just fight long enough wars you will win, or you will become richer than anyone else, or you can kill more people than ever before, or make more people suffer, or ruin more children’s futures, etc. etc.
  I could go on and on, up or down to a Democratic president who is willing to preside over yet another war in the Middle East.  Lunacy is rife.

Gerard-

why are you amazed? Surely you don’t believe that any
among those “agencies” can approach you?

JDMysticDJ:  Thanks for the clarification.  We are substantially in agreement on your expanded remarks as well. I am constantly amazed by the lack of vision among all the agencies of power.

P.S.—Just finished an encouraging (to me) article in the current Harpers—“Why I’m a Pacifist” by somebody named Nicholas Baker (haven’t had time to look and see who he is yet, but I will.)  Regarding how the stupid, naive proCIA pacifists (not!) in Europe tried to save the Jews when Hitler went on his infamous crazed rampage. Surprise!  They failed to gain “credence” with authority and/or media. Then the “Japs” bombed Pearl Harbor) precipitating the insistent Allied pursuit of their beloved World War II.
  And in the same issue, while I’m at it, an article about how the U.S. Military has come to make national policy over and above the civilian heads who are theoretically supposed to be in charge. Winning hearts and minds and all that! Yeah.

Truthdigger:

After reviewing your posts, I must say its an honor
to be insulted by a pretentious moron like you.

gerard

My comment about the C.I.A. was not intended for you. I was afraid when I dashed off this comment that there would be some confusion.

As stated earlier, I admire your spirit and wisdom. The Arab Spring will become the Arab Summer, Fall and Winter. Hopefully it won’t become the “Winter of our/their discontent. [sic]”

There is a lot of hope and optimism regarding Egypt, the major institutions seem to be unified in the hope for “Liberal democracy.” I’ll suppose that corporate interests may be problematic in regard to Egypt’s hopes. Many, Chris Hedges, for example, have condemned “Liberal Democracy.” Personally, my analysis is that the U.S. is not a “Liberal democracy” today, and that it is a corporate controlled democracy i.e. Corporatism. I believe that the Western European model of “Liberal democracy” is far from perfect, but preferable to Corporatism, dictatorship, military control, Junta’s, Theocracy, etc.

Complicating the issue is the fact that the Western European Powers are complicit with empire, via the IMF, WTO, etc. Quest by the Western Powers for hegemony via economic systems, in my view, is a mammoth problem that doesn’t bode well for social justice, or the other virtues sought by the world’s peoples.

I’m sorry if I am insufficiently optimistic. Hopefully things will get better, and not worse.

JDMysticDJ:  What should I make of your last statement regarding the CIA?  Those “it is” statements are indirect and evasive. What you (and everyone else) think of things I say is vitally important to me—even though I don’t know you, or anyone else among these commenters.
  Maybe you are implying that I’m so stupid that I am promoting a CIA point of view and don’t know it, that I am being used. Or maybe you are damning non-violence by implying that it is helpful to the CIA. Some explanation of your “it is ....” statement would be helpful and fair.

Sure as hell knows nothing about Libya.  Doubt she knows much more about Egypt.

gerard

Continue being hopeful and active. As the crumbling around us continues, only hope and action will stop the crumbling. Reading between your lines, I can see that the action you advocate does not include missiles, bombs, and military technology, nor does it include an advocacy of diplomacy to protect the “vital interests” of the empire.

The philosophical difference between the C.I.A. and someone who thinks like the C.I.A. is non existent. It’s not necessary to be a card carrying member in order to be an asset.

“The entire Arab world wants the USA to just show up—as does the entire world.”
Not the “entire Arab world.” It seems to me that the citizens of Tunisia told the US to butt out. And believe me, the US doesn’t do “flex,” as you say. They come to bomb and then steal the resources. 
Everyone—including US citizens—would be better off if the U.S. didn’t “show up” anywhere with their military hardware and corporate plunder of the land. I don’t think this author speaks for the Arab or any other world.

Re: By AMeshiea, April 19 at 11:24 am

AMeshiea,

Keep displaying your utter ignorance and naivetee.
Keep dreaming and smoking whatever you are smoking and as drbhelthi said: come talk to us in a year when you wake up from your rosy dream!!!

drbhelthi#

Not everything that happens in this world is about
the USA.

The USA is distinctly distancing itself from the
Libyan conflict to its own and the Arab’s detriment.
THAT to me is much worse than intervening.

Thankfully, at least they have been on the right side
of the Libyan conflict unlike the other meddling
misadventures and awkward silences.

But I agree with you, we should wait and see how
things end up and revisit the argument then.

“Oh yawn. Why is it so many left wing ideologues can’t ever be just
plain happy when progress is being achieved?” AMeshiea

Teen-aged optimism, disregarding history, is not only boring, but
disregards reality. Which, is the history of the current-day U.S.A.

Taking a look at your “progress,” a year from now, will be less foggy.

Oh yawn. Why is it so many left wing ideologues can’t
ever be just plain happy when progress is being
achieved?

Oh the writer is a propagandistic or a naive
teenager, or works for the CIA.

The revolution was created by the CIA hatched in
Langley and the Egyptians are sorry mopes that fell
for it and are going to get raqped by US corporations
and BIG OIL.

Seriously change the record, you guys are really
dull.

Thankfully the Arab world and soon other nations do
not need your pathetic skepticism and dogmatic
pessimism.

gerard thanks for showing that not all left wingers
are boring turds. gerard ignore the M.E. history
hacks.

And thanks for the heartening update Lauren. Its nice
to know the Egyptians are rooting for the Libyan
people (the leftists here will all just whine about
Imperialism though).

Re: By swanto sez, April 19 at 4:42 am

Swanto sez,

Your post is so naive and full of errors that it is not worth refuting but only a laugh.  Many ignorant of the facts people are thinking of themselves being experts!!

Re: By gerard, April 19 at 7:00 am

gerard,

It seems that you have zero knowledge of the REAL Middle Eastern history and the current Geopolitical situation.
Did you live in the M.E.? Do you know the language and read the M.E. Newspapers on the Web? Did you talk to knowledgable unbiased individuals?!!!
Don’t be so naive and gullible or are you pretending to be??!! You almost made me laugh!

The Truthdig article,
http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/government_memos_tie_iraq
_invasion_to_big_oil_20110418/?ln
Provides a bit of background in the issue of overtaking the oil reserves in the Middle East. The project alluded to, mentioning “ Dr.Farouk al-Baz, director of the Center for Remote Sensing at Boston University and former NASA Apollo engineer” is not exactly as
presented in this article. Control of Egypt, in order to control the entire area, is required, as are the oil reserves of Lybia. Overtaking Lybia means deposing Gadhafy.

The history of the movement from the former Yugoslavia, up to the borders of China and Russia, is controlled by the WWII NAZI entourage, assisted by the MOSSAD (Zionists). 
The same entourage that planned and carried out “Operation Paper Clip,” beginning with the first iteration late 1945, continuing into the 1950s, is the prime mover.  NAZIs in the USGOV and Germany did not give up. They moved their HQ from Berlin to WashD.C., Huntsville
and Ft. Bliss. Both guilty of WWII War Crimes, Werner von Braun and Hubertus Strughold promoted to heads of NASA?  Strughold, an MD who experimented Jewish and other prisoners in Dachau to death, named to Chief of NASA space medicine? Updating oneself with the videos
provided by Mr. John Stockwell, and sources mentioned, will broaden ones view. 

The concept of Egypt being a “peace and goodwill project” exception, to the plan of the one-world globalists, is a bit too naïve for those of us who remember history and have been on the inside.  Some of us recognize fairy tales immediately.  Some of you will also learn to.  Perhaps too late.

A careful review of the article reveals essentially two ingredients: propagandistic hegemony and a request to the world to destroy Gadhafy.

Only two types of persons qualify to present such propaganda: ignorant teenagers with advanced command of the English language, and experienced propagandists. The writer of this article is no teenager.

Sorry to insist upon it, but it seems most likely that the popular uprisings in Arab countries are revolts against oppression and decades-long clamp-down on civil liberties enforced, in part, by the input of Western militry equipment supporting dictatorships, under the guise, of course, of “anti-terrorism” cooperation—rendition and all that.
  If and as western governments intercede with active military force now, you can be fairly sure that their own “national interests” are involved as much as, and probably more their desire to favor freedom and prosperity for the civil societies of the Middle East.
  My plea is that a different kind of intercession, non-military and multilateral through the UN or some humanitarian agency would be vastly more constructive than bombs and tanks, in any event, and the earlier the better—preferably before the firing starts. It is not necessary to let situations fester and boil for decades before they reach the sympathy and understanding of democracies in a position to help.
  The writer of this article is asking plainly for “just showing up” with “a show of support (for the people) but not taking over”.  Her plea is plainly meant to gain assistance for the tens of thousands of ordinary citizens who are revolting against oppression; not for the power structures they are trying to overthrow—regimes that have been bolstered by the West for decades in return for repression of “Terrorism”. (Note how early outcries from the dictators elicited the accusation that the unrest was being caused by “terrorists”), hoping by such allegations to gain support for themselves from Western nations.
  In the case of this article on Egypt, the elation is earned the remarkably nonviolent efforts of millions—the greatest success of nonviolent power for many decades. To preserve it will take time and care and broad citizen participation “on the side of the angels” so to speak.  The voice of the USA could be helpful, but not its fist.

My, my, how lovely this article reads.

Evaluating the article with historical precedent, a couple of questions
arise. Where did this American acquire her facility with Arabic? Did it
come from the language school in Monterey?  Was she formerly employed
as a translator by the USGOV? With the name of Unger-Geoffroy, why is
she visiting in Egypt? Is she an employee of a CIA front company?
Truthdig asked her to write the article, with no mention of USGOV
hegemony?  Why? Are there no American-speaking, local journalists who
would eagerly provide a summary of the current, temporary transistional
state of confusion?

Check back in six months for an accurate appraisal.

Lauren,

I see your heart is full of love and optimism, and
yet you seem to be alert to the many snakes in the
grass.

I wish your counter-culture all the best in Egypt,
and for you as well- all the best.

However, since you seem to be a bright girl, I would
like to pose a question, in good faith, and would be
very interested in your response.

QUESTION: over the past few decades, since the
soviets were ejected, the United States has been
supplying large quantities of aid to Egypt. In
return, the USA has gotten support for our policies.

Your country is very poor. Millions subsist of almost
nothing. When our leaders consulted yours as to what
form of aid they would like, they asked for tanks. My
country has supplied yours with thousands of Abrams
tanks, which are among the best in the world. I’m
sure that other branches of the Egyptian military
have also been supplied with modern weapons systems.

Without digressing into what we call here the “bombs
vs. butter” debate, I wonder why you are calling for
greater intervention by my country in neighboring
Libya?

Just a small fraction of the arms the Egyptian
military has would defeat that bum quite easily. Why
don’t you do it yourselves?

You poor misanthropes!  You just hate to grant any success to hope, faith, charity—the whole schmeer!
Just a bunch of happy-talk to fool the nitwits! Like everything else in life, it would be funny—if it weren’t so sad.

I do not believe this.

Really! No kidding!!??
So, now everything is fine and dandy in Egypt. Religious extremism is in check. There is safety and security in the streets, the economy is back humming, and the tourists are comming in droves just as before the so called “revolution”.!! And OH YEAH, everyone is happy and walking around with a big smile on his/her face.
What a misleading, untrue bullshit of an article.!!

I am not so sure about her report. Yes, she is telling the truth of what she sees in Cairo, but Cairo is a big city. There might be another story outside her field of vision, outside her circle of friends. Egypt is a large country, and I am reading eleswhere little indicators that do not portend that what she hopes for is going to come to pass.

Those indicators, being completely absent in her happy report, do not become less real, but more menacing, at least to my mind. Do the Leftists realize that there are other forces at work, that they too wish to create something from the revolution? 

But that is only my perception, and I am far away from the scene. I especially liked her last few sentences, which have a more realistic type of optimism. So I will believe that what she sees around her also extends to everywhere that she doesnt see, and hope that everyone wants the wonderful things that she does, and pray that in the end it will be created.

A beautiful tribute to peace in the Middle East—now and ultimately.  And to the
inevitable wonder and prospect of a world of mutually wise and helpful people
aware of each others’ possibilities and tribulations.  The sun also rises.