Comparing the BP oil FUp to Katrina dost seem quite a stretch, so much a stretch it makes me want to ask congress to be my doctor so I will seek medical advice from morons in congress. 

Stretching must make one feel good! So let me try some stretching, lets say Katrina is just the same as the bale out and also the mine alleged accident, yeah how about the invasion into Iraq, why not all the wars are just like Katina too! 

I suppose we can really get….. st-rea-chy and say Katina with Mother Nature did it just for the money!

By MarthaA, June 1 at 1:12 am

”The levy was blown up with dynamite.”

Yes, I know! And all blue unicorns are hollow.

nemesis2010, May 31 at 6:06 pm,

The levy was blown up with dynamite.

Obama is no progressive Robinson, he is a corporatist. It appears that you are playing the race card in defending him with disinformation.  I’m not surprised.

nemesis2010, May 31 at 6:06 pm:
‘This is so ridiculous.

Katrina was a natural disaster and the well blow out is a man made disaster. There is no comparison of the two in any way. ...’

I disagree.  It is predictable that hurricanes will occur, although the exact time, place and intensity will be unpredictable, and it is also predictable that accidents will occur with structures like oil rigs and nuclear plants, with the same unpredictability.  The government is therefore supposed to collect taxes and issue and enforce regulations to prepare for and mitigate the effects of the accidents.  There was failure in both the case of Katrina and the present oil blowout, although the failure of the latter is more grotesque since, apparently, the dangers were well-known and the government had the power to stop the procedures causing the risk, which was not true of Katrina.  Also, what I have read of the corruption in the Department of the Interior is considerably more exciting than in the case of poor old FEMA.  But basically it’s the same-old same-old, which is pretty disappointing after all the hope’n'change rhetoric of 2008.

This is so ridiculous.

Katrina was a natural disaster and the well blow out is a man made disaster. There is no comparison of the two in any way.

Preparations for natural disasters as Katrina had been taking place for years, e.g. the levies, evacuation routes, etc. Also there were several days to begin logistical preparations for relief that no one had with the well blow out. FEMA is a department whose function is to provide relief in exactly those types of situations. It failed miserably because there was an incompetent Bush lackey in charge of that department and the Bush administration—as it was on 9/11—was asleep at the wheel.

With the BP disaster there is no department of well blowout control. What the hell does Obama know about drilling exploration? What the hell do most of you know about it? Have any of you ever studied geology or worked on an oil rig? I’d be willing to bet that there isn’t a single individual in the administration who has actually had any hands on experience in either oil exploration and/or production.

All the experts in this field work for Big Oil; if Big Oil can’t control it, who the hell else has the expertise and the equipment? No one! Especially not the military or the White House!

The riser is doubled over and perforated. How the hell can you seal the flow when there’s nothing you can pump the “mud” (dilatant liquid) into? Either that riser is going to have to be cut off or the relief wells drilled. Have you any idea of the depth and the pressures involved? 

Comparing this to Katrina is pure unadulterated stupidity.

ITW,

My intention was to defend the Obama administration.  It has been that simple all along.

Turning white into black:

It does appear that you can’t help yourself.  You, through your extremely myopic vision, made my observations all about your hatred of Bush.

GRYM:

Ok, you are “right”, I’m….done with this discussion after the following.

You’ve reached the silly level. It was always your intention to show the Left as hypocritical and to attempt to “prove” that you’ve had to go down to a super-granular level of some individual criticisms that were the same for both Katrina and BP. That in no way proves your original contention that the penumbra of criticism was the same for both disasters.

I’ve demonstrated conclusively that not so.  If you choose to dance around the hard facts I’ve presented, well, it’s still a free country.

Your incessant attempts to make black appear white and day appear to be night bore me.  I don’t mind you viewing the world as you do, I just mind policies based on that view that will, IMHO, further f*** up my nation, our freedoms and the lives of myself and my loved ones.

ITW, - “It is your contention that the criticisms of the management of the the BP crisis and Hurricane Katrina are the same”

-

Petty politics.

Clearly you focused on, and took great exception to, ANY comparison of Katrina and today’s handling of the oil disaster.  Revisiting my original post, however, shows this was never my intention.

-

May 28 at 10:18 am #

As an aside: Every criticism today of the president and federal government concerning emergency response is the exact same criticisms that was heard after Hurricanes Katrina, Andrew and Hugo.  Word for words the criticisms are identical.  The only thing that changes are the critics themselves.

-

Clearly you have seen that I am correct.  The criticisms are identical. Too slow to respond.  Not organized. Not emotive enough. Incompetent. Critics said the same of Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush and now Obama.

My intention was to defend the Obama administration.  You made my observations all about your hatred of Bush.  You simply can’t get past it.

-

“Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol or morphine or idealism.”

Just out of curiosity; what did you find in the study of the aftermath of hurricane Hugo of 1989?  Did you find the same basic criticisms we are all hearing today?

A simple yes or no will suffice.
***************************************

It is your contention that the criticisms of the management of the the BP crisis and Hurricane Katrina are the same:

Can you show that the Left is defending Obama and blaming Jindal just like the Right defended Bush and blamed Blanco and Nagin?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

You cannot and WILL NOT back your original assertion with facts, yet again.  Instead you use tangents, red herrings, obfuscation and insults.

Next I expect you to say “ITW, you are not honorable”  because I keep holding you to prove your unprovable original assertion which you cannot do.  Since your original assertion compared the oil well disaster and Katrina, everything else is secondary to that.  Hugo, the Tsunami, Carter’s reaction to the eruption of Mt St. Helens in 1980, etc.—all are secondary.

Is this really true?  “The purpose of this world is to show the harm in allowing those most ambitious to rule over those most qualified to lead.” In my frank opinion,anyone who dares to delineate “the purpose of this world” is presumptuous in the extreme.

Like, who said?  How did they know?  Who told them?  Where? When? Under what circumstances? Why? And don’t quote me the Bible or some other book of legends and folktales piled one on top of the other, translated and retranslated, redacted and deduced, squabbled over, washed, rinsed, dried and left to rot in caves for centures.  Please! 

No matter how often these good people repeats such bombast, common sense tells me to resist it.  I have more respect for the wondrously gorgeous and minutely attuned universe than that.

STORMBOY/GERARD: I’ve been wondering the same thing. Who are these men and women that subvert Democracy and destroy lives? Saying it’s the boogieman corporation that’s evil lets the thieves remain masked and anonymous. Good for you STORMBOY!! Maybe we’re a little outside the box at last. Why is there silence in the press about these people?

      ANYONE??? with insight into the current state of CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM?? Influence peddling is one of the major gripes here. Seems that would be a place we could place pressure for action. And yes, lets unmask the vampires behind the scene. The light of day always speaks the truth.

Located this in under 3 minutes after searching the term “Criticism Handling of Hurricane Andrew.

-

At least 33 people were killed in the Bahamas, Florida (where the death toll was greatest) and Louisiana, although the final figure was expected to be higher. Up to 200,000 people were also left homeless, and damage to property in Florida alone was estimated at $20,000 million, making Andrew the costliest natural disaster in US history. An estimated 2,000,000 people either fled or were evacuated from the coastal regions in advance of the hurricane. This factor, together with the severe damage caused to the roads and power supplies, greatly hampered relief efforts. Some 7,000 federal troops together with National Guard units were deployed to assist with the distribution of emergency food and medical care, and to prevent looting and civil disturbances. Nevertheless, there was widespread criticism that the relief operation was slow and badly organized.

Even after it subsided, Hurricane Andrew continued to cause problems through the fierce political controversy generated by the widespread criticism concerning the speed and efficiency of relief operations. Source: British Council.org

-

Every individual here can perform the same search and locate the same results.  This is commonly referred to as a “verifiable” result.

I urge others to more fully understand this subject.  It’s that important.

-

Food for thought, ITW: “Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol or morphine or idealism.”

ITW - “you’ve made it clear your motivation is to either tar Obama with the same brush that Bush is tarred with, or to to exonerate Bush on the same grounds.”

-

You’re right, of course.  I defended the Clinton administration, but pointed out the systemic problems with FEMA in 1992, so I could shill for the future Bush administration after the largest natural disaster in North American history.  I continue my ruse today of the Obama administration for the same reason.

Just out of curiosity; what did you find in the study of the aftermath of hurricane Hugo of 1989?  Did you find the same basic criticisms we are all hearing today?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Did we have an election in ‘08? Asking because I don’t see any difference.

The current mess in the Gulf of Mexico is brought to the world by a filthy rich
company that makes tones of money doing things on the cheap.  Big oil screams
for de-regulation and for government to get off their backs.  They back all this up
by sending lobbyists to Washington to get their way no matter what.  BP could
have installed shut-off valves that work.  BP could have drilled a relief well along
with the one that blew.  Not doing sensible things like this in mile deep water was
BP’s decision alone.

Quoting Robinson in a mistake all-too-easy to make these days:  “In the long run, our natural resources are all we’ve got.  Defending them must be a higher priority than our recent presidents, including Obama, have made it.”
  There are “natural resources” greater than coal, water, oil et al.  Human resources such as creativity, invention, common sense, ability to organize in groups and take action to right wrongs,
to name a few . How did we get so used to ignoring them that we almost don’t notice their omission from a list like this?  Because we haven’t used them for a long time.  Because we’d rather not use them because it’s “too hard,” or “won’t do any good.” Because we can no longer think “outside the box” of convention, habit, same old same old.  Because we are waiting for the man on the white horse.  Because .... (you fill in the blank).

In case you’ve missed it I will point out that I am defending the Obama administration on their handling of the oil disaster.  It’s not possible for me to care any less what the critics think and say.
**************************************

I hadn’t realized that. Good point.

However, you’ve made it clear your motivation is to either tar Obama with the same brush that Bush is tarred with, or to to exonerate Bush on the same grounds.  That still doesn’t wash.

Gerard -

“Question:  If we can’t get the Democratic presidency out of the control of corporations, how are we going to get the next Republican presidency out of the cntrol of corporations?”

Reasonable question, possibly false premise:  it may take longer than just the current election cycle plus the next one.

The only way I’ve been able to come up with to get national GOVERNMENT out of the control of the corporation is simply to keep voting out incumbents until we start getting some worth supporting.  If politicians can be made to realize that they won’t get to keep their jobs just by claiming to be ‘better than the alternative’ their own self-interest (plus the luck of the draw) might eventually lead to the ‘real change’ that so many thought they had voted for last time around.

I’ll be voting anti-incumbent, regardless of party, until I find an incumbent worth supporting (I don’t have any options right now who qualify, though there are a handful of people in Congress I’d have to think a bit about evicting if they were on my ballot).

Go Right Young Man, May 29 at 8:00 pm:
’... In case you’ve missed it I will point out that I am defending the Obama administration on their handling of the oil disaster. ...’

Maybe that’s what annoys ITW.

The people, most likely including ITW, most likely didn’t vote for the same-old same-old; they voted against the Clintons as well as against the Bushes.  Then they find out that what has been going on inside the agencies that were supposed to police the oil companies strongly resembles what was going on at FEMA—it’s pretty annoying.

That’s really the crux of the matter.  Wars: no change.  Imperialism: no change.  Bailouts and bonuses: no change.  Surveillance: no change.  Unemployment: no change.  Reform of the financial industry: no real change.  Medical insurance: quite possibly a change for the worse.  And now it turns out that even the petty corruption, too, which could have been cleaned out almost overnight, has remained unchanged.  That must smart if you’re a proggie.

ITW,

I urge you to study the matter more fully.  I gave you a terrific jumping point in the Natural Disaster Resource Referral Service.  Use it and more.  Forget your bias for a couple of hours.

-

In case you’ve missed it I will point out that I am defending the Obama administration on their handling of the oil disaster.  It’s not possible for me to care any less what the critics think and say.

Go Right Young Man, May 29 at 4:09 pm #

You are much too full of media information, my friend.  I urge to study the matter more fully.  On this subject you’re in the weeds.
*****************************************

You know what? I’m sick of you and your constant apologism for every right wing mis-interpretation and lie.

I would rather trust MY observations of what happened then and what is happening now than waste time on your Limbaughesque spin on everything.

There is no crap on my end. Your gang dumped on Blanco and Nagin and left Bush alone.  Now your gang is dumping on Obama and leaving Jindal alone.

There is NO disaster so big that you guys on the right won’t play politics.

It’s simply shameful.  Get ready for an UNPLEASANT surprise in November, when the Dems hold the House and take MORE Senate seats.

Gerard, thanks. That’s one good place to start, because the board is likely to include many of the majority shareholders, but it would also include appointees there to represent the interests of other corporate boards (interlocking directorships). Even with the identities of the major boards known that’s still one step removed from the actual owners, who appoint the boards and who set the priorities, attitudes and overall culture of all the boards, which in turn hire the CEOs, etc.

Has any investigative journalist or enterprising grad student ever tried to find the identities of the actual majority shareholder of the biggest 20 or 30 multi-national corporations?

Stormboy6722, Google British Petroleum Board of Directors.  Many corporation boards are listed by name, some with photos.  The problem is how to get to them and what approach might work best. So far, they pretty much protect themselves from the public.  Guess they don’t want to face the music left behind by the disaster of mismanagement. As long as the money rolls in .....

Inherit The Wind, May 29 at 2:58 pm,

“The right and the GOP all staunchly defended Bush,”

The Right is the GOP.  The GOP is the base of the Right.  The Republican Party represents the GOP, all populace members are just genteel hangers on.

“rather than use right-wing Socialism”

The conservative Right-Wing always conserves Right-Wing socialism for the Right-Wing, and contends for liberal populace socialism to cover their failures, because it has always worked for them, but it is time for a change.

ITW,

Will you watch Fox News and get caught up on all the real news. like the rest of us who know the real skinny!

According to Fox, they are the real news unbalanced and biased, what more can one ask for?

Talking about unbalanced, what is Palin up to these days? I bet McCain and Palin could have handled this so much better, soon as MiCain figures out which sock goes on which foot!

Obama doesn’t have the power to prevent or even clean up after these planetary disasters, unless and until we Americans decide to dismantle the banking monopolies, nationalize the oil and other energy industries, and divert the flow of capital from the hands of the oligarchs into democratically controlled government agencies, and we all know Americans won’t let that happen. The government is broke and deeply in debt. The banks and oil industry, and their majority shareholders, are wallowing in hundreds of billions of dollars. They use their financial power to corrupt and weaken government and shape the consumption patterns, values and attitudes, the consciousness, of most Americans.
I’d like to know who are the oligarchs in America. Who are the few dozen families who own majority shares in Goldman, Exxon, Chase, Haliburton, BP, big coal, big pharma, big ag, big everything, and who own the corporations that dominate our lives, who start the wars, who spill the oil and destroy habitats globally, who corrupt the political and judicial process, who used Reagan, Rove and Limbaugh, etc to manipulate the public to hate government and praise or just ignore corporations?
Who are they? Who appoints and directs their boards to hire their CEOs to order the priorities and policies of their holdings to maximize short-term return on investment (ROI) regardless of human or planetary destruction.
WHO ARE THEY?

ITW,

I’ll be brief and succinct.  Cut the crap.

When we study the various emergency responses after large scale catastrophe’s we find the same systemic problems. It matters none who holds the White House or which news outlet you personally choose to follow.

You are much too full of media information, my friend.  I urge to study the matter more fully.  On this subject you’re in the weeds.

Question:  If we can’t get the Democratic presidency out of the control of corporations, how are we going to get the next Republican presidency out of the cntrol of corporations? 
  Truth is, any president is a puppet so long as the present campaign financing is dominated by corporate money and all elected officials are virtually bought before they are elected.
  To blame this president or that Congressperson for an offense is wasting personal energy because they are all controlled by a financial system that rewards greed, punishes poverty and illness, uses war and environmental degradation to make profits,—
and is allowed to laugh all the way to the rotten banking system. 
  Changes can be made by people, but not by using the same methods.  People know the methods are wrong, but they permit them.  Say no to fear and hate and greed.  Say yes to courage and kindness and moderation. Say no to violence—anywhere, everywhere.  Say yes to alternatives to violence.
  We won’t know how to do it till we do it.

Go Right Young Man, May 28 at 10:18 am #

Clinton critics will claim I’m wrong.  Bush critics will claim I’m wrong.  And Obama critics will claim I’m wrong.
*********************************************

OK, let’s LOOK at the criticism of the Bush admin during Katrina.  Criticism of Bush and FEMA came almost exclusively from the Dems and the left.  The right and the GOP all staunchly defended Bush, FEMA and instead launched a non-stop 24/7 attack on Blanco and Nagin, never ONCE acknowledging that Bush and his appointees f***ed up royally.  I don’t remember ANY reports of Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity attacking the President, but I DO remember then attacking Blanco and Nagin as an obvious diversion AND a chance to play politics to unseat Blanco (which succeeded).

Criticism of Obama has come from BOTH the right and the left (See all the posts here on Truthdig for a sample) yet GOPers are defending BP and the other oil companies by blocking any attempts to lift caps on liabilities: ie, making them pay for what they’ve damaged, rather than use right-wing Socialism, that is, you and I pay to clean up corporations’ messes.

There has not been ONE THREAD of criticism from the Dems and the left of Jindal as an attempt to shield Obama from it.

As usual, GRYM, your facts are wrong, your inferences are wrong, and, as I anticipated, you use tangents and obfuscations to try to get around that.

I find your world view….instructive.

The Cuyahoga River had to burn to deserve environmental action. Citizen watchdogs made the difference. Govt. could have cared less. Still does.It took 40 years to restore the Cuyahoga. The Gulf Coast isn’t coming back in our lifetimes—if ever. The value of our Gulf is beyond $$$$$. Take every penny BP has and you still have no Gulf. It’s all spin and business as usual. Another Imperial President in league with Corporate Feudal Lords just wants to get it behind them ‘cause gee—they’ve got Nuclear coming down the pike.

      40 years ago the Southwest had a thriving fledgling Solar Industry. It employed people and developed technology. Reagen ripped President Carters Solar Panels out of the White House and revoked the tax credits for Solar. The industry floundered. Where would it have been today with even minimal support? (”—there you go again Mr. President—”) Our Imperial Presidents are visionless. There is no light in them. They’re for sale and by extension, so are our lives.

      I don’t believe they intend to stop. Sadly, there is no “government”. They are hogs looking for a trough and American lives are their swill. Expect more and more disaster. The future is stolen and the final solution is waiting in the wings.

I have it from unrecognizable sources that BP and the Military are working together under a nice fat military contract, with Chaney’s Hallucination Corp. to find a way to move all the oil from the gushing bottom of the Gulf and dump it on the Talaban trails with the idea of making Talabans look like albatrosses drenched in oil, so they can identify them from real albatrosses or at least helping the military from telling the Talaban from non Talabans, by the oil on their sneakers.

GRYM is absolutely right, for he is never wrong, especially in his own mind.

I want to know is, why Robertson has not written one peep about the humongous Banana slugs who are inheriting the earth and what about the black tea bagger who carried an umbrella to a sunny tea bagger rally? Why hasn’t Robertson written anything about those…..you know why! because Robertson is prejudices against banana slugs and umbrellas.

It appears a myth to me that corporations- including BP- rules america.
America is ruled by ^^and i`ll hyphenate it to indicate their connectedness-interdependence^ judiciary-congress-religion-WH-army-cia-media-fbi-schooling.
Thus, any blame for BP is a blame for the above hyphenated one entity.
Blame itself, tho, being continuation of lamentation; which does not elucidate the situation.

Lamentation-blame only,  w.o. positing causes and aimfulness-final goals, never ever produces an enlightement.
Thus, its legality and ferocious promotion by the ruling class.
Bitch all u want; blame an individual; even fire one or two, but don`t u touch the system or talk ab the cause for it all! tnx

Anarcissie: “I think it’s legitimate to ask why the
government and the corporations under its purview…
were totally unprepared for this event…” Thanks for
a thoughtful comment. I agree with your question,
although I would disagree with the focus of your
answer because I tend to view government as merely a
process. So, yes, ask. And then do. The best
suggestion I’ve yet heard about all this is to
require drilling to have relief drilling in tandem.
That sounds like a good (minimal to start with)idea
that can be achieved with our current political
power. Want to do more? Then work with us to get more
power. That’s my thinking.

rfidler: You missed my point. I think you and I
agree. I’m not saying the federal government NEEDS an
Acme clean-up fleet. Read my paragraph above.

Keith Obermann: Kudos to the show that had the
cajones the other day to admit that, as far as
stopping the oil leaking now, there is nothing more
the President could have done, nothing he shouldn’t
have done that he didn’t do. Thank you for some
rational honesty, Keith!

So, do you liberals really want to undercut our
President so that we can “benefit” by another
conservative administration? I’m not saying
rationalize his faults or failings. I’m saying this
President and Congress is a surefire better direction
than the literal Bible-ists who ruled in the Gingrich
era. Are they not good enough for you? Fine, fight to
keep the good ones and work to replace the bad ones,
but DON’T walk away from the one-step forward we’ve
made just to “prove a point” or surely because it
didn’t go far enough.

And finally, while you’re aiming your high-falutin’
principles at Obama, how about taking aim at the
current conservative representatives in government
down there, especially the ones who’ve more directly
enjoyed the largess of the drilling. Nobody’s
stopping Bobby Jindal from solving this except Bobby
government-is-the-problem except-when-I-want-other-
peoples-tax-dollars Jindal.

The government is doing too much until we need them. How could we possibly work out a perfect disaster response system that is available for us at any given time unless we increase government spending?

Consider all of the potential disasters that could possibly happen and the cost of the technology etc.

That would just be something else to complain about.

Governing in the U.S. is a no win situation.

ITW,

My whole point from the beginning has been in regards to criticisms of FEDERAL emergency responses following catastrophic events.  Did you miss this somehow?

By all means feel free to disagree. But can you do it on the same subject and, for goodness sake, loosen up on the political bigotry and constant partisan myopia? Give it a rest already.

—

Interestingly enough. The Times-Picayune and Miami Herald were two of the most ardent critics of Blanco and Nagin after Katrina. Hardly bastions of conservative news outlets. - Not everything is petty partisan politics, my friend. - The Picayune won a Pulitzer on it’s Katrina coverage.  The Picayune was very harsh on both Nagin and Blanco. 

Why not try some real and in-depth research on this subject and study the Natural Disaster Resource Referral Service’s comprehensive “Disaster Recovery From Hurricane Hugo” by Claire B. Rubin?

Feel free then to point out the differences between the federal response(s), and the criticisms, after Katrina and/or today’s oil disaster.

Go Right Young Man, May 28 at 6:37 pm #

Surely you do not believe I am here to take a test at your behest.
**********************************************

Nope. I expect you to do exactly what you are doing: Dodge a clear and obvious error in your logic: Bobby Jindal has not seen one-hundredth of the criticism that Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin EACH had shoveled on them by the GOP.

If he had, every talk show host on MSNBC would have been saying what a screw-up Jindal was every 5 minutes 24/7.  Every lib rag and web-site would be ragging on him constantly.

That’s what the GOP, Fox and the Conservatives did to Blanco and Nagin, 24/7.

That’s simply a fact GRYM, like the sun rising in the East and you cannot get around it, no matter how many red-herrings and straw men you strew about.

The press and the Dems have been FAR easier on Jindal than the press and the GOP were on Blanco.  I know you won’t deny it—you’ll talk about Hugo, and maybe Floyd….and maybe Hurricane Carol from 1954….

You appear to be extremely myopic when evaluating Obama.  “Our most progressive president in decades” - puh-LEEZE!

More progressive than W - yes (though really not that dramatically).  More progressive than Bill Clinton?  Pretty much a dead heat there (both were personable sell-outs who didn’t do much to change the status quo and actually helped it slide rightward in some areas - though Clinton did have the excuse of a Republican Congress).  Better than Pappy Bush?  Nope - that Bush maintained the status quo (a status quo notably more progressive than today’s).  Maybe somewhat more RELATIVELY progressive than Reagan because Reagan moved us relatively farther to the right from where we had been when he took office (though in absolute terms governed more progressively than Obama has - perhaps due to a Democratic Congress that hadn’t yet forgotten what being a Democrat meant).  Carter was certainly more progressive than Obama, Ford as well, and yes, even Nixon (unpleasant though he was, he really was a moderate - not what passes for a ‘moderate’ these days, but a real one).

“Better than W” is really about all that can be said for Obama.  But it seems to be enough to allow his supporters to remain blindly faithful.

By MarthaA, May 28 at 1:21 pm

” Because President Obama occupies the White House at this time and BP’s catastrophe happened during his presidency,  doesn’t mean that the government is responsible for private industry’s mishaps.
But, each and every time, when private industry fails; government continually holds the social populace responsible for private industry, it is time that our country switched to social capitalism, instead of private capitalism; because the social populace will invariably always be made to take responsibility for private’s industry’s mishaps when the chips are down.”

That’s because AmeriCorp is a wholly owned subsidiary of Big Corp & Big Oil.

Not only has this disaster already cost the taxpayer $87 million and rising but Big Oil is positioning itself to blame the government for not having… are you ready for this?... an oil czar!

Wishing upon a czar: Experts want oil-spill chief

Read more: http://www.bnd.com/2010/05/27/1271796/wishing-upon-a-czar-experts-want.html#ixzz0pFL5wpAv

Corporations passing costs to a third party is at the heart of corporate profits; it’s called “externalities.”

“An externality,” says economist Milton Friedman, “is the effect of a transaction . . . on a third party who has not consented to or played any role in the carrying out of that transaction.” All the bad things that happen to people and the environment as a result of corporations’ relentless and legally compelled pursuit of self-interest are thus neatly categorized by economists as externalities literally, other people’s problems.’ – Joel Balkan, “The Corporation”

“The structure, says Kernaghan, “the whole system, just drags everybody with it.“ At the heart of that structure is a simple dynamic: a corporation “tends to be more profitable to the extent it can make other people pay the bills for its impact on society, as businessman Robert Monks describes it “There’s a terrible word that economists use for this called ‘externalities ‘“ – Joel Balkan, “The Corporation”

rfidler, May 28 at 12:01 pm:

“... As Anarcissie says, ‘let BP muddle along and sue the hell out of them.’ I fully agree. ...”

Incidentally, I have just heard about the liability cap.  But I sort of knew it was coming.  With this administration, as with its predecessors, it’s like waiting for the other shoe to drop.

ITW,

I’ll lend a helping hand by directing you toward the Natural Disaster Resource Referral Service and the comprehensive “Disaster Recovery From Hurricane Hugo” by Claire B. Rubin.

You will find that we can simply replace the word “Hugo” with the word “Katrina”.

Not everything is partisan politics, my friend.

ITW, - “Please show me the Tsunami of criticism for Bobby Jindal.”

-

Surely you do not believe I am here to take a test at your behest.

Take a few minutes out of your day and search the terms “Criticism + Hurricane Andrew”. Or “Criticism + Hurricane Hugo”.

What you’ll will find is the Exact Same criticisms of the federal response to Katrina and today’s oil disaster. The only thing that changes are the critics.

This is not a time for petty politics and partisan attitudes.  Take fifteen minutes and see for yourself.

FiftyGigs, May 28 at 8:49 am

How would you stop the earth from oozing at 5,000 feet?

Silly questions merit silly answers. I will, however do you the courtesy of noting that the time to avert said disaster was a full inspection of that rig prior to deployment by the governmental agency charged with that responsibility.

You know, sort of like the British did with the very same model rig deployed to the North Sea oil field, where they discovered that the very same fail safes were defective. That inspection forced Transocean to repair said rig prior to its deployment.

But then it seems that you would rather throw up your hands than insist our government be at least as effective as was Great Britain’s…..I fail to understand what you seek to accomplish here, do you work for BP?

GRYM:

Please show me the Tsunami of criticism for Bobby Jindal.  I can easily show the same for the former governor of La. and the former mayor of N.O.

Until you can do that your argument is simply wrong.

ITW, - “If there was any more obvious difference between the Bush regime and the Obama administration, I don’t know what it is.”

You speak of the Bush regime and Rush Limbaugh speaks of the Obama regime.  I have to say…you come off sounding exactly like Limbaugh when you write.

.. and as rfidler showed with his drop-kick assessment of my views.. it’s best read something all the way through before making critique.

Still.. raving lunatic? does that mean I can be drafted for the next Republican VP nomination?

Adios!

ITW,

Fifteen minutes reading press releases after Hugo, Andrew, Katrina and today’s oil disaster will prove your opinions completely unjust.

Every person here will find the same results.  The fact is the criticisms are exact.  Almost word for word. The only thing that has changed are the critics.

Because President Obama occupies the White House at this time and BP’s catastrophe happened during his presidency,  doesn’t mean that the government is responsible for private industry’s mishaps.

But, each and every time, when private industry fails; government continually holds the social populace responsible for private industry, it is time that our country switched to social capitalism, instead of private capitalism; because the social populace will invariably always be made to take responsibility for private’s industry’s mishaps when the chips are down.

Let’s get down to basics here:  Could be, the main cause of most of the our modern problems is the largely unrecognized (and untreated) psychology of “power over ...”.
  It’s not a new trait of human beings, but has recently got increasingly out of control. An early modern evidence of its existence as tragedy was encapsulated in Hillary’s remark when he was asked why he climbed Everest.  “Because it’s there!” was his probably-unconscious response. Risky developments like modern warfare and over-population are further evidences of human abilities going out of control,
  For quite some time now we humans have been doing things of doubtful wisdom “because they were there” or “because we can” or simply the child-like response,“because ...”- totally without considering consequences, side-effects, long-term results.
  The tragedy of oil spills falls into the same category.  It’s not that venture and creativity are wrong.  No, not at all.  But venturing and replication without consideration for possible hazards is foolish and often hideously destructive.
  Human ego being apparently unlimited, and human suffering, painful—it’s time to develop a bit of conscious, long-term vision.

Go Right Young Man, May 28 at 10:18 am #

Clinton critics will claim I’m wrong.  Bush critics will claim I’m wrong.  And Obama critics will claim I’m wrong.
*******************************************

Maybe it’s because….you’re wrong? 

Sorry GRYM, couldn’t resist!

Actually the response to Katrina was a complete and total mess-up, reflective of the corruption of the Bush regime—the guy in charge was a dealer in Arabian horses and knew NOTHING about either emergency control or…in lieu of that, basic management of the people who DID know about it.  Not one thing went right and it was all due to bad planning.  About all the Bush admin was able to do seemed to be to give money to Halliburton and Blackwater.  To this DAY trailers that were supposed to temp housing are unusable.

This administration’s response was sharp and to the point.  Every resource available was deployed CORRECTLY even if it was in insufficient quantities.  The “experts” are actually experts, not horse traders, and they made it DAMN clear to BP they better get this shut off—and today they did, at least temporarily.

The WH effort in Katrina was to try to make sure blame didn’t reach the WH or the GOP Governor of Mississippi, only the Democratic Governor of Louisiana and the Democratic Mayor of New Orleans. In that, the WH was successful.

Now I don’t see any major effort or campaign to make GOP Govenor Jindal look crooked and incompetent, but rather to show solidarity with him by the President.  This is ironic because EVERYTHING Jindal believes in and worked for has been deep-sixed (literally) by Deep Horizon.

If there was any more obvious difference between the Bush regime and the Obama administration, I don’t know what it is.

I’m sure GRYM will come up with 10,000 articles to show that there were NO attacks on the Dem Gov or Mayor and a gazillion attacks on Jindal, but trust your own memories.

All of the criticisms posted here are more or less valid, I think. But it leads me to a conclusion that most of you will disagree with: Progressives have centered their politics around a belief that Government is more competent to identify, address and solve problems than greedy, evil private corporations. They expect to be betrayed and taken advantage of by corporations, and so they use disasters like this to prove their point. But when their beloved Government lets them down… oh, the gnashing of teeth and screams of betrayal.

As Anarcissie says, ‘let BP muddle along and sue the hell out of them.’ I fully agree.

As FiftyGigs says, ‘why doesn’t the government launch its Amce all-purpose disaster solver fleet… oh, wait a minute… never mind!’

And as SoTexGuy proved when he mentioned, “this planned disaster”, there are raving lunatics in every crowd who get in the way of sober dialogue about a tragic accident.

The most discouraging omission from the discussion of this blow-out is that no
one is talking about the sea-level change in Economics this entails. When we
compare the costs of different energy sources carbon-based (and nuclear) energy
have their most expensive aspects ignored. Oil spills, air pollution, Global
Warming, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, infrastructure and water quality
deterioration, reduction in soil fertility… Military Assistance!... all are “off-the-
books” when it’s time to evaluate relative costs. Ask yourself how many Solar
Thermal plants, pollution-free, virtually maintenance-free, could have been paid
for for just the cost of this one disaster? Our over-sized military is nothing but an
oil cost, as are our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama’s personality isn’t the
issue anymore than was G.W. Bush’s. They are the front-men that the gang that
has captured your culture put out there to direct the discussion to safer topics.

FiftyGigs, May 28 at 8:34 am:

‘... Well, then, would you nut-jobs please shut up and
focus?’

I don’t think there is much anyone can do about the present crisis but let BP muddle along, and then sue hell out of them.  It’s not a very good solution but it’s probably the only one available.

However, I think it’s legitimate to ask why the government and the corporations under its purview, which collect our money and promise they’re going to protect and serve us, were totally unprepared for this event, even more totally unprepared than they were for Katrina.

The answer, of course, is that you don’t get into a position of power by being competent or knowledgeable about a technical subject.  The only thing that matters is your ability to play political games.  Mr. O’s style is different than Dub’s, but he’s basically doing the same things, such as assuring everyone that offshore drilling was perfectly safe because of the sophisticated technology involved.  In fact he did not have the slightest idea what he was talking about, just as his predecessor didn’t.

Behind the derelictions and incompetency of the politicians, however, is the great, mass desire for more and more stuff, in this case the insane desire to drive around traffic jams and parking lots in the endless suburbs in a truck.  We could get rid of the politicians, but how can we get rid of ourselves?

As an aside: Every criticism today of the president and federal government concerning emergency response is the exact same criticisms that were heard after Hurricanes Katrina, Andrew and Hugo.  Word for words the criticisms are identical.  The only thing that changes are the critics themselves.

Clinton critics will claim I’m wrong.  Bush critics will claim I’m wrong.  And Obama critics will claim I’m wrong.

Yes, our current president is another Nixon.

The man, who saw the environmental movement coming, and since there was little they could do to stop it created an EPA, whose sole job was to minimize it’s impact on the corporations, and protect them from the tree huggers.

Since the founding of the EPA, the list of environmental crimes and disasters, approved by government has hardly slowed.

Instead of holding corporations responsible for what they do, the cancers they cause, the disease linked to their toxic residues, they neutralize the impact on the public, by insulating the corporations from the public’s wrath.

And although, this latest disaster in the Gulf will probably kill hundreds of thousands of people in the long run, it’s only a small part of the millions killed each year, by GMO’s, Herbacides, unsafe medications and pharmaceuticals, toxic plastics, irradiated produce, meat exposed to carbon monoxide, etc., etc, etc..

Heroically the FDA, has saved us from Vitamin B6 by banning it, and seems to have endless time and money to further the agenda of the pharmaceutical companies, especially when they want to turn vitamins into drugs that they can resell to the consumer at much higher profit.

Unfortunately, our plutocracy, is so corupt, that a growing number of American’s don’t trust it at all, if this country doesn’t split apart into a million pieces it will be a miracle at this point..

For 30 years, since we “elected” Ronald Reagan, the nation has stupidly avoided EVERY serious attempt at alternate energy sources to oil: Solar, Wind, Geothermal, Hydrogen—even natural gas which was pushed by…Gerry Ford.  Reagan and his bastard offspring cut that all down.  Paying for that hideous, immoral decision has put us at the mercy of foreign powers and foreign corporations, screwed up our foreign policy and and hurt our economy.

If THIS isn’t a wake-up call for alternate energy, WTF is?????

You are wise beyond your years, I’m sure, ardee,
although I notice you offered no concrete suggestions
of what any individual should do. Please, the gulf’s
survival is in the balance. Don’t keep us waiting.

How would you stop the earth from oozing at 5,000 feet?

RdV, my comment below wasn’t a response to you or
directed at you. When I started writing, SoTexGuy’s
was the only one posted. I guess we were writing at
the same time.

I think you have a point about accepting BP’s
estimate of the flow, but I wouldn’t at all presume
that Obama is accepting it.

Among other things, President Obama has the nature of
an organizer, which simply means he will tend to take
effective action more often than not. Contrast that
with someone like Bush.

That’s not saying Obama will act fast or “come out
fighting” or go ballistic over every issue. Or even
be always right. But making adversaries doesn’t make
solutions.

Barack Obama is, in many admirable ways, our most progressive president in decades.

Sorry ,Eugene, but your endless apologies for Barack Obama become rather tedious and even vaccuous. “Most progressive” is a telling indictment of those we elect rather than a paeon to any of them.

Gee, fiftygigs I guess, now that your own paeon to hopelessness has posted we can all simply write off the Gulf of Mexico and all that shoreline as well….what the heck we got so many more beaches.

I understand liberal gripes about our nation’s energy
policy. What I don’t understand is the recent liberal
nut-job mantra about the Deepwater Horizon which goes
along the lines of “Why doesn’t Obama do something?”

Liberals DO realize that we didn’t elect Clark Kent,
who could dive into the ocean’s depth and pinch
closed the busted, leaking pipeline, right? Whew!
That’s a relief!

On the other hand, it IS legitimate to ask why our
President hasn’t sidelined BP, and dispersed our
federal fleet of Acme deep-water, oil-fixin’, water-
purifyin’, fish-cleanin’ boats to go out there and…

Oh, we don’t?

Well, then, would you nut-jobs please shut up and
focus?

Buried in this, otherwise decent article, is an apology for Obama’s lack of action. You know what, Gene, perceptions matter, and the president could’ve at least conveyed the impression to the country that he cared. Instead he attends fundraisers with the elites or focuses on sports teams.
  This BS about leaving the criminals in charge because they are the only ones with the expertise is the same line we were handed about Wall St—only those who caused the problems were sophisticated enough to “fix” them. Meanwhile, BP is still trying to hide the extent of the disaster and it turns out they really don’t have the technology to “fix” it.
  Just like Wall ST—and Obama still defers to them.

As I commented in another thread about this planned disaster.. Imagine the chaos of the explosions and the deaths and injuries.. the towering steel complex crashing to the earth amid storms of fire and debris.. But not at sea.. right on the skyline of Atlanta or Denver.. then the toxic clouds and endless growing spill.. the men and machines seemingly unable to do anything.. in our face..

It wouldn’t be tolerated.. our President wouldn’t be talking about working with the people responsible.. A foreign corporation did this to us!? He would be closeted with the Pentagon and arranging a United Nations conference.

But this is different, it’s out there, down there.. We’ll never feel and see the full effects.. people will grow to accept the new, somewhat less marvelous, Gulf of Mexico and things will continue. Drilling and spilling.

I’m not sure who to blame at this point besides myself and everyone else who accepts our Petro-economy, Petro-politics and Petro-environment.. but I’m not even close to thanking President Obama for his energy policies or his response to this planned catastrophe.. because if no plans or visions were put forward to prevent this in the short term with spill response plans or long term with new energy strategies then that’s exactly what this is..

And.. it will all happen again..

Adios!