Sandy Berman,

I can’t refute any facts as you have not presented any, only supposition.

PatrickHenry..

THE facts, little one… and I DARE you to REFUTE a single one of them.

You need a suppository.

Oh and some of us intend to make sure that Rocky Anderson will be the next Ralph Nader.

Will truthdig or other “progressive” media and blogs report on it is the $64,000 question. Or will it become a repeat of the shameful things we seen all over during the 2008 Obama Madison Ave inspired Hope and Change campaign.

Firedoglake will. I can’t say with the same certainty here.

While I wonder why TruthDig will “allow” a series of articles that are Obama/Dem apologist in nature, there is another equally unsettling question.

Why does TruthDig apparently flat out refuses to publish any articles in support of some of the truly great presidential candidates out there.

Like Rocky Anderson of the newly formed Justice Party or Jill Stein of the Greens? For the record, I support Rocky Anderson.

This truth-digging question was brought to you free from corporate pandering or influence.

Michael Cavlan
Candidate US Senate 2012
Minnesota Open Progressives
*check out our commercial on you tube- Michael Cavlan US Senate 2012

Sandy Berman,

Whose facts, yours?

I need an antacid after reading your posts.

Amon,

“maybe it would be all to the good if she
was able to somehow gain traction on a national
scale.  but until she does, a vote for her is
probably pretty much a waste.”

I understand your position but think about it for a minute -
How does one “somehow gain traction”? When folks hear about you and check you out, at least that’s how it should work. The problem is we have allowed ourselves to let the MSM define who is “acceptable” or “worthy of consideration”, not on the basis of the best ideas, integrity, etc. So we say “Shucks, if she’s not on TV, she can’t be worth much!” (i seriously wonder how many folks would decide to support Kim Kardashian if the MSM made a fuss about her.) We have ceded our critical faculties to the talking heads, and they know it. That is why TPTB make sure that their choices have plenty of dough to buy the airwaves. Well TPTB have no desire to see Stein get any air time. So we have to do it the old fashioned way. If you like her spread the word.

Frankly, I am a bit frustrated that these supposed “progressive” bloggers are wasting so much time on RP ...

What did i mean by RP being counterfeit - i meant that i think he is being presented as a genuine “alternative” for lefties. I have no idea if he really believes what he says, maybe he does. I think the problem is that, just as with Obama, folks aren’t really listening to the full spectrum of what he says and does - if they did, they would see that folks who believe in peace, justice, jobs, healthcare, and even civil rights for all couldn’t, really, in good conscience support this guy. Nor Obama either.

I didn’t support Obama, in fact i spent a good chunk of time in sites like this waving red flags about him in ‘08. Nothing he does surprises me, though i must admit he’s proven to be even worse than i thought. I listened to him, man, actually listened. Folks jumped on board willy nilly without listening because they hated Bush so much, and now they are doing the same with Paul because they are so pissed off at Obama. It’s all knee jerk, accept for the folks who have tied their fate to the Dem Party and will do whatever they can, no matter how lousy it is, to keep it in power, whether honestly or not. You see them here, you will see more and more. And, so there is no misunderstanding, I disliked McCain as well.

I have been watching this now for about 20 years - the pattern is always the same. Every time they convince folks to stick with the 2 parties, things get worse and worse. I keep hoping we will have the guts to break free and vote, not our “hopes”, nor our fears, but our aspirations - that is never a wasted vote. My vote is too important to me to waste on someone who doesn’t represent me - Stein does, and, i would suspect she does you, too ..

Some point out that that Ron Paul will wage a war against women. Others claim Obama is already waging a war on civil liberties. The truth is there has always been a war from time immemorial from all rulers in history. And that war has always been a war toward the “little people,” the ruled, the “masses,” the non-wealthy, the non-big boys club members of society. Whatever the election outcome of 2012, very little will change as usual. Foreign policy tends to be pretty uniform no matter which party occupies the White House. The same holds for business interests. In fact, the business class does not mind at all if Obama is reelected because they know that Obama, like most leaders, thrive in belonging and being accepted in the big boys club. They know this because they know that leaders almost always prostitute themselves in their addiction to power. They gauge the leaders’ psychological makeup and sense how far they’ll go in order to be accepted and loved by these titans of power. It is not very different from a prom girl going all out to win a popularity contest with a perceived hunk even if that entails a loss of close friends. The truly decent people never gain considerable power. Therefore, these intellectuals scenarios we play out here at TD in guessing outcomes of X vs. Y vs. Z is considered laughable by the elite. They are always one step ahead and have focus grouped to death our petty little games. As long as we are ineffective in playing “who will win the election,” we will be allowed to quarrel endlessly. But once they realize that Ron Paul is gaining too much steam, a “say when/that’s enough” moment will have arrived and the switch will be thrown and that’s when Ron Paul will realize that he was granted to enjoy his little 15 minutes of fame in Iowa.

Sandy,

“Facts are facts.. like them or not.”

And speculations are speculations, and i do believe by any reasonable jury’s determination your statements re a theoretical Gore admin. quite solidly qualify as the latter. You seem to forget that Gore was a free trader, as well, and spent his time in the admin - not on global warming issues but on “re-inventing gov’t.” He also never said boo when Iraq was being devastated by Clinton/Gore sanctions and bombings - have you forgotten Albright’s “we think the price (half a million dead Iraqis) is worth it?”

I say again - BS, you have no idea what a Gore admin would have done and in any case it is a straw man because it was Gore who lost his own election - perpetuating misinformation about 3rd party participation is just another black eye for DP “reputation”, such as it is. I wonder if it has ever occurred to Dems that telling the truth might be a good idea - it would be so refreshing, that as bad as the truth is, folks might be charmed by the concept.

“Now, more than any other, we need to vote together… en masse…  and go on the record as being foursquare against this cancer that is all-too-fast metastasizing in our culture… for if these shills for those who want to relegate our workers into an underclass of indentured servants… the racists, the bigots, and those whose putrid worldview would dictate a march backwards to the 18th century ever get a permanent grip on our system of justice.. our system of governance, we might never survive to fix it later.”

I’ll drink to that! I have been preaching exactly that! It is precisely our failure to do that that has perpetuated the Dem/Rep choke hold on our country. You are absolutely correct - if we don’t dump these dudes lickety split, and unite behind some real reps of the 99%, we are in deep dude do.

So glad to see you on board - and we have the perfect candidate already running to help get us there - Jill Stein!

aquifer…i haven’t checked out all of jill stein’s
positions…maybe it would be all to the good if she
was able to somehow gain traction on a national
scale.  but until she does, a vote for her is
probably pretty much a waste.

during my lifetime, i’ve never sensed more discontent
with the dem/repub duopoly than i do now.  you say
that paul is a counterfeit.  i’m not sure what you
mean by this.  i think some of his ideas are wacky,
but i don’t doubt that he sincerely believes them. if
paul is our only choice on a national scale to ending
the war on terror, why not take a chance and vote for
him?  of course in doing so, you’d have to realize
that you’d have to fight him on other issues.  a vote
for paul doesn’t mean you subscribe whole hog to the
libertarian position, it just may mean that your sick
of our imperial stance toward the rest of the world.

Mystic,

And Obama is worse yet - of course, things could be worse, they have been getting worse, and they will continue to do so under both corporate parties. The answer to our woes is not to perpetually choose Dem v Rep ...

Aha! you might say, the answer is to keep the Dems in - but the Dems HAD both houses and the Pres. and did what with them, precisely?

That dog won’t hunt any more - I’ll ask you the same question - how low will you go, before you say “enough!”?

I am 65 and have trouble keeping up and the spell corrector is tricky. I meant to say it is fascinating to me that Paul in my mind is on the wrong side of the immigration issue while he ends up blocking anti-immigrant hysteria. Some Hispanics vote for him especially the minority of Cubans who are progressive.

Paul also gets in the way of the assertion that only the agents (or dumps) of Satan support abortion.

What has born rich,  Plutocratic Al Gore done for the world beside fly around in his carbon belching Jet, ignoring real politic and overpopulation?  Do you really think you can have a Democracy when your only choices are corporate media backed lying FRAUDS like Obama and nearly every other Democrat or Republican.  A vote for Al Gore was nothing more than a vote for more brainwashed Plutocracy.  The USA is NOT A FUNCTIONING DEMOCRACY!!!  WAKE UP!  Quit validating an illusion.  Quit brainwashing your fellow citizens that the USA is a Democracy.  You have a responsibility to be part of the solution and stop being part of the problem.  A Journalists first responsibility is to not reinforce and validate propaganda.  WAKE UP!  STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING!  IT IS WRONG!

Oh, If you don’t what to change good luck with that if we just elect the right Plutocratic media sponsored puppet everything will be OK thing.  It did not work for NAFTA Clinton or WALLSTREET Obama but I’m SURE next time it will work just FINE.

What has born rich, Plutocratic Al Gore done for the world beside fly around in his carbon belching Jet, ignoring real politic and overpopulation?  Do you really think you can have a Democracy when your only choices are corporate media backed lying FRAUDS like Obama and nearly every other Democrat or Republican.  A vote for Al Gore was nothing more than a vote for more brainwashed Plutocracy.  The USA is NOT A FUNCTIONING DEMOCRACY!!!  WAKE UP!  Quit validating an illusion.  Quit brainwashing your fellow citizens that the USA is a Democracy.  You have a responsibility to be part of the solution and stop being part of the problem.  A Journalists first responsibility is to not reinforce and validate propaganda.  WAKE UP!  STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING!  IT IS WRONG!

Oh, If you don’t what to change good luck with that if we just elect the right Plutocratic media sponsored puppet everything will be OK thing.  It did not work for NAFTA Clinton or WALLSTREET Obama but I’m SURE next time it will work just FINE.

President Obama is the world’s most persistent compromiser.If Paul wasn’t double digit in Iowa, all we would here was that Obama is a traitor on Iran and Iraq and Israel, and as a compromise we would be in a war with Iran by now.

The further Paul gets the more reasonable Obama’s compromises will be.

It is assassinating to me that from my point of view Paul is wrong about immigration, yet does more to stop hysteria against immigrants than other leaders of both parties.

RichardKanePA..

All Ron Paul “stimulates” is excess stomach acid.

Paul takes votes from both parties more than did Ross Perot. He isn’t young enough to try to build a new party.

What integers me is that before Ron Paul almost every one was politically correct in their own way. And afraid of ideas outside ones ideology. Amazingly most Ron Paul supporters disagree with Ron Paul in some way, and don’t think that makes them less of a supporter something new in human history,

please see,
http://readersupportednews.org/pm-section/78-78/9198-ron-paul-echos-blood-sweet-and-tears

I think after the Presidential Race Ron Paul will be remembered like Howard Zinn, even though Zinn has people believing a new political correctness while Paul stimulates thought

Aquifier… sorry that my post was cut.

There are certain circumstances when we progressives need to shelve our differences (however nuanced) and vote the democratic ticket… and the 2012 election will historically be one of those times.. as the stakes are higher now than they have ever been… or ever likely to be.

The unfortunate reality today is that a vote for a “3rd Party” candidate… or even worse, staying home as a “protest” or out of complacency is a de facto ballot caste for the baggers.

I have had many problems with the Obama Administration… including his milquetoast approaches in dealing with an intractable opposition.. not to mention his archaic energy policy.

But today.. at this point in time, if we all don’t hang together, we could very well allow the crackpot baggers to get a permanent foothold into our Legislature.

Does anyone really want to see a Newt Gingrich, an Eric Cantor or a Rand Paul… a Rick Perry, a Michelle Bachmann or a Rick Santorum in positions where they would be writing and enforcing our laws… to be defining to the world who we are as a “people”?

Now, more than any other, we need to vote together… en masse…  and go on the record as being foursquare against this cancer that is all-too-fast metastasizing in our culture… for if these shills for those who want to relegate our workers into an underclass of indentured servants… the racists, the bigots, and those whose putrid worldview would dictate a march backwards to the 18th century ever get a permanent grip on our system of justice.. our system of governance, we might never survive to fix it later.

RE; Aquifer, January 2 at 12:37 pm

Forgive the cynicism, but as bad as things are they can always get worse, e.g. Republican Party Governance.

Many people didn’t think things could get worse than Carter and Clinton. Reagan and W. were worse.

Aquifier…

Facts are facts.. like them or not.

Sandy,

“Let’s face it.  The fact of the matter is that if Ralph Nader wasn’t on the ticket in Florida, then Al Gore would have been President rather than Bush… and I highly doubt that a “President Gore” would have invaded Iraq or even Afghanistan… nor would he enable torture.. nor would he have gutted every environmental, consumer, regulatory agency in America.”

BS - spoken by a diehard Dem who knows that once folks with progressive aspirations start voting them instead of their fears - the Dems will be faced with a choice - between meeting those aspirations and pissing off their money bag funders, or trying to keep the money and losing their “base”. For the past several cycles they have managed to hang on to both by “scaring” the base while continuing to fry them just a little more slowly and with a bit more sauce than the Reps.

I have been hoping for some time that lefties (including indies, independent is not just another word for “centrist”) will do what they need to do at the polls - abandon the Dems and go for what they profess to believe in (and I don’t mean a counterfeit like RP). We have a candidate who is ready and able - c’mon folks, it’s time, past time ... just check out Jill Stein ...

mystic,

Hmmm strange name for one who makes such comments as this;

“loonies who will facilitate the worst and will be a detriment to the better with their squandered votes and counter productive activism.”

methinks thy mysticism has abandoned thee ..

In any case, out of curiosity, just how bad does this “better” have to be before he stinks up the place too badly for even folks like yourself who will tolerate, apparently, just about anything .. How low will you go, seriously, or is there no bottom for you?

Spare us from cynical “sophisticates” who have no aspirations, we have had quite enough, nay, far too many, over the past several decades ...

A vote for a 3rd Party candidate is a de facto vote for the Republicans.

I have written some articles trying to convince an ever growing contingent on the left to get more personally involved in the electoral process….  and to do it proactively rather than to disengage when they feel that their choices might not measure up to what are no more than unachievable purism’s or unattainable ideals.

That by “writing in” an unelectable candidate or, even worse, staying home as a “protest vote” that they are actually accomplishing anything other than casting a de facto ballot for the opposition….

that, in what amounts to be an astounding example of oxymoronic pretzel logic, that NOT voting is somehow a “vote”...?... that by NOT participating, they are somehow “participating”.

Sure, it’s a messy business, and the ever-increasing attempts to corrupt the process to a point that Tammany would have been appalled… that the GOP’s initiatives to disenfranchise voters can make one that much more cynical… hell, it can be used as an excuse just be lazy, lounge around and whine about how lousy everything is after all is said and done (by someone else).

What we NEED to do is arouse the electorate and spark the OUTRAGE necessary to get them to engage… and it has to be WAY before the general elections.

I’m not suggesting that the manner in which we elect our ‘leaders’ is the panacea.. not even close.

We must become the ACTIVISTS that we once were… direct community involvement on more than just a political level and what I am saying regarding our ‘votes’ is that we have to be involved much earlier than the general election so that our ‘choice of candidates’ are what WE want them to be… and that ‘protest votes’ are counterproductive to the point of suicide as they are virtually guaranteed to allow the right wing to prevail.

This is not a philosophical opinion, but a statement of historical fact.

Let’s face it.  The fact of the matter is that if Ralph Nader wasn’t on the ticket in Florida, then Al Gore would have been President rather than Bush… and I highly doubt that a “President Gore” would have invaded Iraq or even Afghanistan… nor would he enable torture.. nor would he have gutted every environmental, consumer, regulatory agency in America.

What the Founders imbued was freedom, yes… but NOT without a commitment to the “commons”... a mandate that we, as a people, are indeed.. through our Government, responsible to each others welfare.

What else is a government’s mission other that that… and how can we claim any real contributions when we abstain from our most basic responsibility?

since paul in all likelihood won’t be getting the
repub nomination, progressives/social democrats who
abhor the war on terror, perpetuated by the dronester
obama, will be faced with a dilemma if paul runs as
the libertarian presidential nominee.  if one
believes that the suffering caused by the war on
terror can only be alleviated by a commander-in-chief
like paul, then one would probably have to vote for
him. but this would have to be done with eyes wide
open.  the possible domestic suffering that could
come about due to paul’s excessive belief in private
propertarianism would have to be counterbalanced by
electing members to congress who believe the gov’t
has a role to play in securing the health and
happiness of its citizenry. it would be great if paul
would pull us back from the war on terror, but we’d
have to be sure to align counterbalances to some of
his domestic agenda.  no easy answers here…

Chalk on the sidewalk
Writin’ on the wall
Everybody knows it
I love Paul

Tall Paul, tall Paul
Tall Paul, he’s-a my all

Chalk on the sidewalk (chalk on the sidewalk)
‘nitials on a tree (‘nitials on a tree)
Ev’rybody knows it (ev’rybody knows it)
Paul loves me

(Tall Paul)

With the king-size arms
(Tall Paul)

With the king-size charms
(Tall Paul)

With the king-size kiss
(He’s my all) He’s my all!!

(Tall Paul is my love, tall Paul is my dream)
(He’s the captain of the high school football team)

He’s my mountain
He’s my tree
We go steady
Paul and me

Tall Paul (with the great big smile)
Tall Paul (with the great big eyes)
Tall Paul, (with the great big kiss)
He’s my all

Tall Paul, tall Paul
Tall Paul, he’s my all

This song by one time teen queen Annette Spoonajello might be a fitting theme song for Paulites. I’m unable to come up with a song that would have been fit for Tall Nader. “The Impossible Dream” might be fitting for Paulites, Naderites, and Steinites alike.

To dream the impossible dream
To fight the unbeatable foe
“To bear with unbearable sorrow
To run where the brave dare not go
To right the unrightable wrong
To love pure and chaste from afar
To try when your arms are too weary
To reach the unreachable star
This is my quest
To follow that star
No matter how hopeless
No matter how far
To fight for the right
Without question or pause
To be willing to march into Hell
For a heavenly cause
And I know if I’ll only be true
To this glorious quest
That my heart will lie peaceful and calm
When I’m laid to my rest
And the world will be better for this
That one man, scorned and covered with scars
Still strove with his last ounce of courage
To reach the unreachable star”

Sorry, the truth is I’m not at all amused by these loonies who will facilitate the worst and will be a detriment to the better with their squandered votes and counter productive activism.

Conason, “Lays It All Out.”

The U.S. Supreme Court IS responsible for the Gore
defeat in 2000, NOBODY else. In case you don’t remember
Gore actually won the popular vote in Florida.

Talk about amnesia Joe. Get a clue!

it’s a myth, i assert, that you’d have any other president than the one
approved of by the twentypercent, or the onepercent, if you like it better.

Conason again proves to be an unscrupulous, mainline journalist. Enough with this “Nader spoiler” BS. Mr. Conason, are you afraid to do a little research? In case you are: 10 million registered Dems voted Bush in 2000. 250,000 of that body did so in Florida. There were 7 or 8 third party or independent candidates who won more than the minor 537 votes that put Bush over Gore in Florida; that’s even without mentioning the disenfranchised minorities that are estimated to be in the tens of thousands. You’ve got some nerve blaming Ralph Nader for any of the Bush era policies on a site like this, one I consider more often than not against the grain, factual and honest. Considering Scheer is brilliant, as is Hedges and Sirota, why must we hear from someone who sounds more like he belongs on NPR or MSNBC?

Anyone saying Ron Paul is a liberal/progressive is so damn insulting to liberal/progressives, which may be good for them,.... for I am a militant centrist!

Announcing Ron Paul as being a liberal/progressive is so damn insulting to liberal/progressives, which may be good for them,.... for I am a militant centrist!

So this writer blames Nader and the Greens for the Iraq War, the abandonment
of environmental commitment and the increase in economic inequality. 
Anything else they may be responsible for?  How about, World War II, the big
tsunami?  This nonsense borders on superstition, as in “if you walk under a
ladder, it will bring bad luck.”

In a democratic country with a sound electoral policy, elections are won by
majority votes that are properly counted. The consequences resulting from
elections are based on what voters choose to support and, judging from the
governments we’ve had, the majority does not support a foreign policy of
peace, environmental commitment, or economic equality. There’s no evidence
whatsoever that the Gore-Lieberman pair and their Democratic buddies in the
legislature would have altered this persistent pattern.

As an example that the Dems like to curtail free speech (unless it is in their favour) in Iowa, former Obama voters turned occupiers (Dems would call them insurgents now that they are criticizing them) stood in front of the doors of the Democratic headquarters - until the police came to arrest them (at the Dem’s insistence). Think back to how Ralph Nader was treated by the Dems when he tried to get into the debates - he was threatened with arrest (the Dems also wanted the insurgents arrested in Iowa, which they were.

whoever becomes president and whichever wing of the goose takes over senate and congress, expect worsenings for about 80% of
americans and betterment—or not worsenings—for about 20% of americans.
the causative factors for the projected or expected events would be THE THOUGHT, growing population, global warming, and planet
getting poorer.

it seems that we cannot change THE THOUGHT [and not just in u.s] in years or even decades. and we cannot change the fact that planet is
getting poorer. we could start using less; however, at present time THE THOUGHT; i.e., the twenty percent would not allow it.
it would not make a wit of difference who among the 20% would be senator, congressperson, or president, u.s would manufacture same
amount or even more arms, missiles, tanks, etc., than ever before.

stopping global warming and growth in population is a possibility. however, according to weather scientists we are actually causing even
more warming, let alone staying at the same level.
in view of these tremendous factors, you’d have to be very trusting or naive to expect that paul would do away with even one significant
military base let alone many—which is what he said he’d do, i think.

as for his or anybody’s ‘promise’ to stop waging warfare, it is a fact [libya had proved it; as would syria soon] that u.s does not have to
wage open warfare in order to remain da boss on this planet.
there is also nato, cia, muslim brotherhood, amirs, beys, begs, kings, princes, ulema, aghas, lords, warlords, drugdealers/makers, 
christianity, sybarites who are more than willing to help u.s in deposing people like bashar assad, dismembering/puppetizing countries,
imposing sanctions, etc.

back in march i ‘predicted’ that if rebels depose libyan govt, theocrats would replace it. it seems that that’s what happened. i took some
heat for saying that.
the point i am making is that the twentypercenters can always count on all ‘religions’, including islam, to help them out. and muslims are
more faithful to own ruling theocracies and classes than any other pious people.

but even u.s itself appears more theocraticaly governed than any other country in europe or even some in s. america. tnx bozhidar balkas,
vancouver

Remember, the votes that the Dems lost went to the Repubs not to Nader. This writer is not very bright and should not be allowed to write here until he checks his facts.

Ron Paul would not be the “next Nader” if Obama hadn’t turned out to be “the next Bush”.

But for those willing to overlook the racist, homophobic, anti-Semitic and paranoid Ron Paul newsletters—as well as their putative author’s feeble, implausible and changeable explanations for them—the congressman might claim to be an alternative to that tired-old-two-party, lesser-of-two-evils ballot choice.

Far too many supposed progressives, here and elsewhere, are doing exactly that. Oh and the incessant droning of the Paul cultists make it seem that his following is larger than it is in the progressive community.

That would appeal only to progressives who suffer from historical amnesia, the chronic affliction of American politics, and were thus unable to recall the consequences of Nader’s third-party candidacy. One of those consequences, ironically enough, was the war in Iraq, which probably would not have occurred if Al Gore hadn’t forfeited the electoral votes that Nader threw to George W. Bush.

Sorry Joe, such tried ,trite and nonsensical opinion as this ruins your credibility and spoil the thrust of this article. You haven’t a clue as to what a Gore presidency would have done when faced with the events that drew us into endless war.

Further, my vote, you clueless sycophant, is mine to cast. I do so for that candidate who best represents my wishes for the direction of this nation. Unlike the Paul Progressives, however, I do my research and understand the very real dangers of both Ron Paul and his politics.

Still bitching about Nader after all these years! Gore, got himself in the hole he dug. If dissatisfied Democrats vote for Paul (who is not even in the same ball game than Nader) do not blame them, if an Obama loss ensues. Obama is the one responsible.

Blueokie,

Excellent summary of how we got where we are!

It seems to me that the one mistake we should learn from is that not enough of us voted for Nader - this time around i think Jill Stein would fill the bill - she doesn’t have Nader’s name recognition, but her intelligence, honesty, positions and dedication are quite a match. We can fix that name recognition part if we (progressives) discuss and pay more attention to her than to folks like RP.

Nader’s contribution to the process was invaluable in so many ways, but to sustain a movement, a message, a party, there must be more than one Nader - as a four time Nader voter, i think Stein is quite a worthy successor ....

how about anarchy? and not the one defined by the dictionary as
lawlessness, but the one—what is it, btw?
i could tell you about the one we practise in our home, but i want to be
paid for it.

talking about anarchy, what do people think of anarchic reporting on td,
nyt, washington post, time magazine, cnn, fox?

democracy=hypocricy=best system of rule for a minority.
timocracy/pantisocracy= best rule for all.
desirable truth [apodictic- aristotle]=best truth.

The Clinton, Clinton, Bush, Bush and Obama presidencies are the ones who have waged endless, brutal war against innocents abroad and at home. They are to blame.
“Instead, they helped to inflict a political disaster from which America has scarcely begun to emerge. In the new year, we may discover whether they wish to revive that nightmare.”
How are we beginning to emerge? Obama just signed the NDAA and is sanctioning Iran as a first step to war. This is the nightmare. We are living it.
You bet your sweet ass I’m going to do everything I can to stop this grotesque, two-party merry-go-round.
Vote for Ron Paul in the primaries. Do all you can to stop the madness.

paul is going to wage war on women who want to abort a fetus. some of these women may be poor or very poor; brain injured from
drugs, drinks or hurt in some way by our one and only genetic pool.
nearly all commenters, msm columnists, educators, politicos, priests say tacitly or explicitly that such people are to blame for what they
are.
and vehemently at times brush aside such factors in shaping human behavior as our genetic pool, prevailing ideology, structure of
society, the difference in wealth/power and thus knowledge or adaptive skill for survival.

by survival, i mean, surviving in an environment. environment would include parenting, genetic pool, drugs we take, food we eat,
‘religions’, structure of governance, govt, laws, education or lack of it for surviving, etc.
we are then dealing with an enormous complexity.
out of this complexity priests, educators, politicians, et al deduce a simplicity; eg, that a homosexual wants to be homosexual and that
genetics has nothing to do with being so.

we could have by now eradicated homosexuality if we had accepted it as real as a rock and simply encouraged such people to reveal
themselves; while allowing them to have sex only with one another.
we’d probably by now have a different genetic pool that would not generate ‘bad’ genes. as to why our genetic pool produces geniuses,
psychopaths, ‘stupid/smart’ people, homosexuals, me, nobody knows! tnx

If Nader said he would run again, you’d see how undemocratic the Dems would be - they would do everything possible to keep him out of the debates and off the ballots (as they have in the past) - they want the election to be about only 2 possible (but very similar) views for America - everyone else (like Nader) would just get in their way and they can’t have that. I believe Nader would more than any other time make a real difference - the Dems would be sorely afraid of him now.

it’s good that paul opposes war on drugs. but does he oppose war for poverty; or, to say it more
accurately/adequately, does he oppose such chasmic differences in individual earnings and thus
also differences in individual econo-military-monetary-politico-educational powers?
poverty doesn’t just happen—it is created. paul, i suggest, had as much to do with waging wars
for poverty and disenpowerment of so many [say, 80% of americans] as any other senator and
congressperson.

and he’s taking on federal reserve, is he? but if he knows how federal reserve functions, why had
he not shared his knowledge of it with people like me who has no clue how federal reserve
functions and for whose benefit?
and i believe that at least 250 million americans also do not know how it functions.

and neither does the wealth just happen. in fact, nothing ever happens in u.s or what u.s does to
the world that the system does not only ok but also command.

and, it seems, paul appears more worked up about his love for the system than most politicos.
tnx

“One of those consequences, ironically enough, was the war in Iraq, which probably would not have occurred if Al Gore hadn’t forfeited the electoral votes that Nader threw to George W. Bush.”

**** Remember the sanctions against Iraq that the Clinton-Gore Administration enforced? The sanctions that the Pope called a new form of bacteriological warfare? Remember the incessant bombing raids? Raids that killed lots of civilians? I think it quite likely that a President Gore would have launched a war against Iraq.

On many other issues Gore would almost certainly have been better than Bush. But not on Iraq, based on what the Clinton-Gore Administration actually did.

because of what conason, boyarsky, sirota, robinson, scheer, dionne say,
i’d sooner vote for republicans than democrats; provided, of course, only
dems and repubs run for office.
ok, this is not a good joke, but at this time i do not have a better one.
tnx

I don’t blame Nader for Gore’s election loss.  I blame the voters, including myself, for Nader’s election loss.

Re: Lefeller

Your comment:“So can the Republicans really walk as good as their Half witted talk?”

Yes,I believe they can…. if they drag one leg.

“So the old Democrats now new Republicans would be screwing the regular Republicans while at the same time and more importantly screwing Obama, which seems to be just what so many so called alleged liberals apparently support, giving added credence to the premonition sponsored by Senator Mitchel.”

Yep. Dat iz waht it done lookz lik!

I’ll quote Homer (the cartoon character, not the poet. Of course…) Doh…!

Good post.

Maybe a large number of Democrats should change their registration over to becoming brain dead Republicans; which fraternally requires sticking ones head up ones ass while becoming a cross bearing christian supporting the finer points of hypocrisy;  and then vote for Ron Paul in the primary’s. Then we can see just how far the Repulcians can screw and fornicate the poor, the minorities and the working middle class, while still mufti tasking their special skills doing the same thing towards women and the gays (which could seem gay itself?) So can the Republicans really walk as good as their Half witted talk? So the old Democrats now new Republicans would be screwing the regular Republicans while at the same time and more importantly screwing Obama, which seems to be just what so many so called alleged liberals apparently support, giving added credence to the premonition sponsored by Senator Mitchel.

Red Koch States forever!

Conason makes the tripe, tired argument of Professional Liberal Democrats that Nader is responsible for all the sins of the past 13 years.  Nader had no influence in the election in Tennessee, Gore’s home state, that he lost to Bush. Had he won Tennessee, the shenanigans in Florida would have been immaterial. 
Gore picked the method of recount in Florida that would have been least effective, even though had it been completed, would have given him the state. Gore picked the least effective case for the Supreme Court, making things easier for the Gang of Five.

In Gore’s campaign, he tried to out center-right George Bush, even to the point of picking Droopy Dogg stand-in and Insurance Cartel shill, Joementum Libermann as his running mate.  His hubris lead him to belief that his obviously superior qualifications would make the choice clear.  As a result he allowed the campaign to come down to the ubiquitous, “Who would you rather have a beer with?”.  For most people if two “rich, dull, white, Frat guys” want you to get a beer with them, they will pick the dumber of the two, easier to convince him to
pay.  Also, given the choice of voting for a pseudo-Republican, or an actual Republican, most people will vote for the actual Republican (probably what distresses Conason the most, as the Republican nominee will be forced more to the “center” where the differences with his favored candidate and the Republican will be exposed as being very thin).  Nader’s entry into the race was precisely linked to Gore’s casual dismissal of the issues of the progressive left. 

The Democratic Party sold their souls in the mid ‘80’s with the DLC and decided to become Republican Lite.  The middle class became Degreed Professional’s in the six figure range, socially liberal, economically conservative.  Their abandonment of the actual middle class, workers, the poor, minorities, peace, the environment, equality, etc. etc. etc., has become more evident with every election, culminating in the ultimate manifestation in 2010, when given the House, a nominal veto proof majority in the Senate, and a President marketed as a cross between FDR and MLK, the government embraced and expanded on every policy of “The Evil One” and met every issue with conservative, formerly Republican solutions.  This led to the gridlock we enjoy today because people voted for the real Republicans in 2010.

As for Nader’s failure to bring about third party relevance, in 2002 the duopoly came up with the Help America Vote Act.  Supposedly in response to the obvious election fraud of 2000, HAVA flooded the country with “funny” election machines, made it easier to remove and disenfranchise voters, and made it harder for third parties to gain ballot access.  (In typical duopoly fashion it ignored the purported problem of election fraud, in favor of non-problems of voter fraud and voters who don’t vote “right”).  Hitting that trifecta was courtesy of the success of Nader, the act was to address the threat he represented.

In closing, Conason’s main error is his implication that your vote is owed to one party or the other, style over substance, marketing over reality.  Call me old fashioned, but I think votes should be earned.  Personally I wouldn’t vote for Ron Paul for dog-catcher, but if your a left leaning voter, tired of being
marginalized by the Democrats, by all means support Paul if he has earned your vote, but keep your eyes open to other possibilities, and keep in mind Paul is a package, and not one or two positions.

Now quick everyone, if you tack 500 posts onto the end of this piggyback troll’s lame article the way you did Scheer’s good one, you’ll help Conason prove his worth to Truthdig.

Every so often these kinds of articles pop up about Nader causing our folly from
apologists for the two party circus.

Nader is an citizen in the purest sense.  Paul is serving Capital every day in DC
along with 240 other millionaire Representatives in the house.

That would appeal only to progressives who suffer from historical amnesia, the chronic affliction of American politics, and were thus unable to recall the consequences of Nader’s third-party candidacy. One of those consequences, ironically enough, was the war in Iraq, which probably would not have occurred if Al Gore hadn’t forfeited the electoral votes that Nader threw to George W. Bush.

Another consequence was the abandonment of the U.S. commitment to mitigate climate change, which dwarfs even the economic debacle of the past few years in its potential toll on humanity. And a third consequence was the spike in economic inequality encouraged by Bush’s tax, spending and regulatory policies—which will someday seem moderate in retrospect, if Obama loses next year to Mitt Romney and Republicans control both houses of Congress.

So let me get this straight.  Nader supporters are responsible for all the bad consequences coming from people voting for Bush (and not Gore or Nader).  Thx for his history lesson bro.

It’s predictable enough you would link Paul to Nader as a similar kind of bogeyman to be feared.  But one would think you would wait until Paul actually talks about running 3rd party (much less runs 3rd party) before pulling out the lesser-evilism.

If you want to make a rational case against Paul at this moment in time, then explain why nominating one of the other Republican candidates is better than nominating Paul—not only on the basis of policy, but also on the basis of healthy political discourse.

With Obama and Romney the likely nominees, of course there will be passionate interest given to alternatives like Ron Paul*. 
Or Dr. Jill Stein. 
Or Dennis Kucinich. 
Or Rocky Anderson.

Who am I leaving out?

No majority mandate—we’ll see a plurality popular vote Presidential winner this year.

http://open.salon.com/blog/oddsox/2011/12/31/12_predictions_for_2012

—-

*Paul’s best shot is to win the Presidency is to first win the Republican nomination.
Then go heads-up vs. Obama. 

As a 3rd Party candidate, he can only serve as spoiler. 

Conason posits that Paul might siphon liberal voters away from Obama and feigns horror at the thought. But he knows better. 
Paul as a 3rd Party candidate would all but guarantee Obama’s re-election.

Well, 3rd party folks, take heart - the Dems apparently are still afraid enough of your potential to pull that old Nader “spoiled” it routine - conveniently ignoring the fact that a larger number of Dems voted for Bush than Nader got in votes - the Fla. Dems cost Gore the election, not Nader. There ought to be a law against Conason’s kind of BS ...

I misjudged Truthdig - i thought with Hedges writing for it, (though come to think of it he hasn’t in a while, has he?) ...., but between this and Scheer’s article - I guess real progressives haven’t got a chance on this site ...

i suggest that who ever get’s the presidency, he’d toe the line drawn by the onepercenters. it is not
unusual for an aspiring politician to make the biggest ‘promises’ possible.
and i’m surprised that people have not noticed the obvious: that paul is not taking on the onepercenters
at all, but OWS does or appears that it does. in any case, OWS has a diff view of onepercenters than paul.

i think that an honest/truthful politico running for presidency wld say to americans: look i don’t know!
we’ll see! future is not ours to know! but one thing i won’t do is make tacit or explicit promises to you;
instead of me making promises to u, you, if you must have promises, make promises to me, each other,
and advise me what to do.
that, to me, is sane behavior. it won’t happen unless people demand it. but in decades to come people
cld wake up finally! hope so! tnx

The rise of Ron Paul’s popularity with liberals is only a testament to how sad our postmodern times have become. Without a true, social alternative, people see their brightest ray of hope in someone who would have us all live in an Ayn Rand novel.

OK, Joe, blame us Greens and Nader because your boy Obama tortues everyone and bombs women and children.  People believed that screwy ballot math of yours 12 and 8 years ago, but the worse Obama gets, the better Nader and even Ron Paul look to them.