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Chris Hedges Speaks on Osama bin Laden’s Death

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Posted on May 1, 2011
AP / Pablo Martinez Monsivais

Chris Hedges, speaking at a Truthdig fundraising event in Los Angeles on Sunday evening, made these remarks about Osama bin Laden’s death.


Click to listen to the audio, or read the transcript below:

I know that because of this announcement, that reportedly Osama bin Laden was killed, Bob [Truthdig Editor Robert Scheer] wanted me to say a few words about it … about al-Qaida. I spent a year of my life covering al-Qaida for The New York Times. It was the work in which I, and other investigative reporters, won the Pulitzer Prize. And I spent seven years of my life in the Middle East. I was the Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times. I’m an Arabic speaker. And when someone came over and told ... me the news, my stomach sank. I’m not in any way naive about what al-Qaida is. It’s an organization that terrifies me. I know it intimately.

But I’m also intimately familiar with the collective humiliation that we have imposed on the Muslim world. The expansion of military occupation that took place throughout, in particular the Arab world, following 9/11—and that this presence of American imperial bases, dotted, not just in Iraq and Afghanistan, but in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Doha—is one that has done more to engender hatred and acts of terror than anything ever orchestrated by Osama bin Laden.

And the killing of bin Laden, who has absolutely no operational role in al-Qaida—that’s clear—he’s kind of a spiritual mentor, a kind of guide … he functions in many of the ways that Hitler functioned for the Nazi Party. We were just talking with Warren [Beatty] about [Ian] Kershaw’s great biography of Hitler, which I read a few months ago, where you hold up a particular ideological ideal and strive for it. That was bin Laden’s role. But all actual acts of terror, which he may have signed off on, he no way planned.

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I think that one of the most interesting aspects of the whole rise of al-Qaida is that when Saddam Hussein … I covered the first Gulf War, went into Kuwait with the 1st Battalion, 1st Marines, was in Basra during the Shiite uprising until I was captured and taken prisoner by the Iraqi Republican Guard. I like to say I was embedded with the Iraqi Republican Guard. Within that initial assault and occupation of Kuwait, bin Laden appealed to the Saudi government to come back and help organize the defense of his country. And he was turned down. And American troops came in and implanted themselves on Muslim soil.

When I was in New York, as some of you were, on 9/11, I was in Times Square when the second plane hit. I walked into The New York Times, I stuffed notebooks in my pocket and walked down the West Side Highway and was at Ground Zero four hours later. I was there when Building 7 collapsed. And I watched as a nation drank deep from that very dark elixir of American nationalism … the flip side of nationalism is always racism, it’s about self-exaltation and the denigration of the other.

And it’s about forgetting that terrorism is a tactic. You can’t make war on terror. Terrorism has been with us since Sallust wrote about it in the Jugurthine wars. And the only way to successfully fight terrorist groups is to isolate [them], isolate those groups, within their own societies. And I was in the immediate days after 9/11 assigned to go out to Jersey City and the places where the hijackers had lived and begin to piece together their lives. I was then very soon transferred to Paris, where I covered all of al-Qaida’s operations in the Middle East and Europe.

So I was in the Middle East in the days after 9/11. And we had garnered the empathy of not only most of the world, but the Muslim world who were appalled at what had been done in the name of their religion. And we had major religious figures like Sheikh Tantawi, the head of al-Azhar—who died recently—who after the attacks of 9/11 not only denounced them as a crime against humanity, which they were, but denounced Osama bin Laden as a fraud … someone who had no right to issue fatwas or religious edicts, no religious legitimacy, no religious training. And the tragedy was that if we had the courage to be vulnerable, if we had built on that empathy, we would be far safer and more secure today than we are.

We responded exactly as these terrorist organizations wanted us to respond. They wanted us to speak the language of violence. What were the explosions that hit the World Trade Center, huge explosions and death above a city skyline? It was straight out of Hollywood. When Robert McNamara in 1965 began the massive bombing campaign of North Vietnam, he did it because he said he wanted to “send a message” to the North Vietnamese—a message that left hundreds of thousands of civilians dead.

These groups learned to speak the language we taught them. And our response was to speak in kind. The language of violence, the language of occupation—the occupation of the Middle East, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan—has been the best recruiting tool al-Qaida has been handed. If it is correct that Osama bin Laden is dead, then it will spiral upwards with acts of suicidal vengeance. And I expect most probably on American soil. The tragedy of the Middle East is one where we proved incapable of communicating in any other language than the brute and brutal force of empire.

And empire finally, as Thucydides understood, is a disease. As Thucydides wrote, the tyranny that the Athenian empire imposed on others it finally imposed on itself. The disease of empire, according to Thucydides, would finally kill Athenian democracy. And the disease of empire, the disease of nationalism … these of course are mirrored in the anarchic violence of these groups, but one that locks us in a kind of frightening death spiral. So while I certainly fear al-Qaida, I know its intentions. I know how it works. I spent months of my life reconstructing every step Mohamed Atta took. While I don’t in any way minimize their danger, I despair. I despair that we as a country, as Nietzsche understood, have become the monster that we are attempting to fight.

Thank you.


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blogdog's avatar

By blogdog, April 2, 2012 at 12:36 am Link to this comment

Pentagon has no records of Osama bin Laden’s death

Fellowship of the Minds

http://tinyurl.com/7fm2cpn

Posted on March 28, 2012 by Dr. Eowyn

Obama touts the Navy SEALS’ raid and killing of Osama bin Laden in his
hideaway compound in Abbotabad, Pakistan, as one of, if not the greatest,
achievements of his administration. Reportedly, the administration even
disclosed details of the raid to Hollywood for an upcoming movie, Zero Dark
Thirty, directed by Kathryn Bigelow.

The movie is scheduled to be released — SURPRISE! — on October 12, 2012,
within a month of the presidential election.

Joseph Straw reports for the N.Y. Daily News, Aug. 11, 2011, that the CIA
defended its collaboration with the maker of Zero Dark Thirty. CIA spokesman
Preston Golson said that such collaboration with filmmakers has precedent and
is part of the CIA’s “public outreach.” Despite the CIA’s insistence,
Congressman Peter King (R-Long Island), chairman of the House Homeland
Security Committee, has demanded that the Pentagon and CIA inspectors
general investigate whether the agencies breached policy in this case, in
particular whether the filmmakers saw classified material or got access to
personnel working under cover.

Given that, it is curious, to say the least, that, in response to a Freedom of
Information Act request made by the Associated Press, the Pentagon says it has
no records — not one photo, not one video, not even an e-mail — of bin
Laden’s death?

[...]

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By mimi67, April 2, 2012 at 12:23 am Link to this comment

with the death of Osama Bin Laden, there are people who are happy about it and those that are mourning for his death. For most Afghan, it is the start of a new beginning for them.
Tony Robbin
Personal Development Coach

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, June 25, 2011 at 10:58 am Link to this comment

She, you have to conceeed that there is some middle ground between groundless babbling, and repeating cited fact.  Opinoins, researched to varying degrees, and gathered in the context of various backgrounds can have a value equal to the credibility and intent of the espouser.  Though, I am tempted to make up a statistic on the spot for my guess as to how much falls in that middle.  Were it not for the uncertainty on low end, I might take a SWAG, but I am reasonably sure the printed matter that falls into the high cited end is statistically minute.

And, I think I’m going to lay off on ‘anarchists’.  A pet peeve, and I don’t think I want to make the amusing mouse uncomfortable.  The demographic is interesting though.  The effect, that hit-and-run parrots running up to a storefront, throwing a brick through a window and running off.  Very amusing.  I’m curious about the real motivation / background.  Though I don’t think it’s a big group, it;s the kind of group who’s activities can be blown out of proportion by the media for an excuse for police action. We saw that with the G8.

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By Cliff Carson, June 25, 2011 at 9:48 am Link to this comment

I don’t think that Hedges was so much addressing the conspiracies mentioned as he was the outcome of allowing those conspiracies to gain strength and power.

This is obviously just my opinion, and everyone has one just as we all have some common anatomy.  And I would guess that no two anatomies are exactly same although I don’t have any citations as proof, but I did used to have a friend who was a Proctologist.

But I believe the end point is that we are heading down the same path as the Athenian Empire - total destruction.

If you have read about the Peloponnesian Wars you may notice that the Empire was completely smug in its superiority and it initiated a war it thought it couldn’t lose, in order to press it will on its part of the world and incidentally rob its conquered opponents of their resources.

After about 25 or 30 years of war that little venture ended in absolute failure and complete destruction of the Empire and brought utter devastation to its subjects.  And Athens went from a type of Democracy to Oligarchy.

The winners of the destruction of a Republican form of Government are always the corrupt, immoral, unethical - The Rich and the Powerful.
This is not necessarily true of the destruction of a true Democracy.

This, I think is the warning of Hedges.

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Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, June 25, 2011 at 9:10 am Link to this comment

Oh yeah, as Lina* would say…the enjoyment of shooting one’s
mouth off was the top rhetorical amusement of most tyrants, most
vicious tyrants.  I won’t be so cavalier as to tolerate it!  Go ahead
and shoot off your mouth, but no merit at all will be given to it by
me, but then I know I don’t count in some quarters.  Relative
opinion making is just too easy especially with a bottle of tequila,
or any other inebriating crutch that works its magic of granting
self-importance .

*Lina refers to Lina Wertmuller’s keen and researched observations in
the film Seven Beauties, where the protagonist’s favorite expression was
“Oh Yeah!” And I only used reference to tequila since it seems to be the
website beverage of choice.  I’ve no special prejudice against tequila. 
Drink away oh ye appreciators of the fruit of the worm!

You might check in, John Best, with your avatar’s sentiments about
factless, opinionated “Speak.”

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, June 25, 2011 at 9:03 am Link to this comment

Cliff, the new world order may change various concepts sponsored by Thucydides, in effect as the USA crashes into flames, the opportunists and manipulators are safe and cozy in their ivory towers,.. well anyway for the time being!

The political climate change seems real to me, except not so for the skeptics out there. (Usually Republicans and Tea Bags for different reasons).

Actually Cliff, I see our country dropping into a well bought and paid for Fascism, especially at the state levels, one only need look at the Red States. Where the concept of Representative government is being damned. By self anointed ones (voted for?) self proclaimed great leaders, (really opportunists)  saying they must lead and not care nor listen to the huddled masses,... as this hard money and hard work has been long coming in the minds of the benefactor money changers. (same ones in the babble?)

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, June 25, 2011 at 8:46 am Link to this comment

“If there are costs/benefits and dumb uses” of public
debt for private benefit, a citation would be most useful in giving event the slightest verity to even a humorous attempt at conspiracy building.” —yes indeed, but that would involve actual research, time, effort, access to Haliburton, Wackenhut, Xi records, checking invoices, forensic accounting, all that stuff.  How can one enjoy shooting their mouth off if it involves effort?  Easier to shout ‘Fire’ than ‘Smoke’ and hope someone with actual data will locate the blaze??  Back to chores…. enjoy.

Oh, and Lefeller, I’m not done bitching about hip anarchists.  Get your tequila later. (<:

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By Cliff Carson, June 25, 2011 at 8:28 am Link to this comment

I sat down this morning and re-read Hedge’s article plus re-read all the comments.

Hedges concluded his commentary with:

“And empire finally, as Thucydides understood, is a disease. As Thucydides wrote, the tyranny that the Athenian empire imposed on others it finally imposed on itself. The disease of empire, according to Thucydides, would finally kill Athenian democracy. And the disease of empire, the disease of nationalism … these of course are mirrored in the anarchic violence of these groups, but one that locks us in a kind of frightening death spiral.”

And from Wikipedia concerning Thucydides on and his concerns about War:

“That Thucydides was clearly moved by the suffering inherent in war and concerned about the excesses to which human nature is prone in such circumstances is evident in his analysis of the atrocities committed during civil conflict on Corcyra,which includes the phrase “War is a violent teacher”.

To my concern and agreement with this article:

Yes War is a violent teacher - but only if those who are part of a later History are willing to learn.  What is that old saying “You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink?”.

And as Hedges quoted Thucydides, “the tyranny that the Athenian empire imposed on others it finally imposed on itself. The disease of empire, according to Thucydides, would finally kill Athenian democracy.”

Could I get the reader to substitute the word Athenian with the word American? Thank you.

Now how many would agree that the symptom of inward insult to the American Citizenry is occurring this very moment?  Will the outcome, if left unchecked, repeat the Athenian end?

Please allow me one more quote:

Marcus Aurelius, former co-Emperor of the Roman Empire:

“Look back over the past, with its changing empires that rose and fell, and you can foresee the future, too”

We owe our children, and their children, a better world.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, June 25, 2011 at 8:10 am Link to this comment

I wonder if Neanderthals were the first real anarchists? So in my opinion which is set in its usual foundation of sand,... two anarchists in a room may be a conspiracy and if there are three anarchists in a room they… then they could become posters on TD?

I hear Osama ben Laden may have a job at Fox unbalanced conspicuous news!

From its successes, the greatest conspiracy story ever told may be what some refer to as “the good book” and what I refer to… as the goat herders manual.

Great points about the thinning of the heard this also seems to support the constant lacking of support towards womens rights!

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Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, June 25, 2011 at 7:42 am Link to this comment

Indeed, John Best, and Good Morning to you!  It is the samo samo
story.  War has been around since before the Neanderthals, who
were wiped out because of warring clans.  The expense was
uncountable to the separate tribes that fought fiercely, and the
chieftans did make out handsomely (and whose male populations
were reduced and hence less competition among those who were
left) who went on to have their descendents become kings and
warlords (the distinction between those two are slim).  My main
point was that opinions fly like dandelion fluff in the merest wind,
and I would suggest that in conspiracy theories there are meager
to no facts and hence are all mere fantasies of some overimaginative
overworked mind.  If there are costs/benefits and dumb uses of public
debt for private benefit, a citation would be most useful in giving event
the slightest verity to even a humorous attempt at conspiracy building. 
Then we can haha all over the place with much comfort.

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, June 25, 2011 at 7:14 am Link to this comment

Good Morning She, I’m not sure if you were ho-humming at my meager attempt at a conspiracy theory, and like all of them, there may be a few related or nonrelated facts, but never that elusive smoking gun fact, that bit of paper which proves the conspiracy. 

In this case, and in some others, it’s not that there is or is not an actual conspiracy.  It’s the facts which are important.  I was simply trying to point out some of the costs/benefits and dumb uses of public debt for private benefit.  Just to give a little form to that tired phrase ‘war profiteering’.  Doing what one can do: venting. 

It is a yawn of a story, same-old, same-old: war makes a few very wealthy at extreme expense to the soldiers and general public.

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Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, June 25, 2011 at 6:37 am Link to this comment

Ho hum and yawn.  Opinions are cheap, moreover they are free, and
that is an opinion because there is no dollar value for opinions. 
Realizing that blogs are places where opinion outweighs fact by a wide
margin, and so it goes, the last two opinions are without any empirical
support.  The phrase of the last statement was not an opinion, it was a
fact.  Aren’t both mere mental trips into the light fantastic?  They are
remindful of MSM.

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By ardee, June 25, 2011 at 3:52 am Link to this comment

NZDoug, June 6 at 1:57 am Link to this comment

OBL was created by Israelis treatment of the Palestinians and its going to bring the
big ugliness down

Or…
bin Laden was created by the CIA in a continuation of cold war politics and policies aimed at defeating the Soviets invasion of Afghanistan. He then took on his mission due to US troops present in his homeland, Saudi Arabia, as he, himself proclaimed often enough.

But, of course, Israel’s horrendous treatment of the Palestinians does color every discussion about the Middle East, as it should.

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John Best asks,

By John Best asks, "What IS Progress"?, June 25, 2011 at 3:36 am Link to this comment

Finally got around to reading this OBL article.  Not that we need another conspiracy theory, but…...

Was the hunt for Osama just the cover for the US acting as a political mine-sweeping operation, clearing Afghanistan for mining by the Chinese? 

The copper is worth $88 billion. The lithium is about a trillion.  What price does the market put on the products made from those resources?  I’ve seen estimates we pay half a million per soldier, and wonder how much of that is private sector support services financed on the public’s tab.

We provide the global service of projecting force, not for outright payment, but for more credit incurred by the public sector.  Chinese provide mining and manufacturing functions, cash, then investors in private resellers cash in. 

Surely this is just happy coincidence and not an outright agreement.  Surely. There would be a paper trail, right? 

I suppose we’ll eventually have that copper and lithium buried right back here in the USA as old verions of IPods and so forth.  And for all that trouble, some well-to-do folks are going to have more cash that’ll be worth far less.  The futility of it.

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Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, June 6, 2011 at 8:30 am Link to this comment

Earthshaking events attract a variety of commentors:

Those who have no reason not to believe what is reported but who keep
it open because the entire truth may not have been delivered.

Those who have reason not to believe because they “know” what is the
truth because they have actually checked it out.

Those who would believe putative authorities.

Those who would argue against anything that is reported as a knee jerk
reaction because it is their cynical and skeptical nature

Those who are delusional and will create some fiction of their own to deny
what is reported.

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By NZDoug, June 6, 2011 at 1:57 am Link to this comment

OBL was created by Israelis treatment of the Palestinians and its going to bring the
big ugliness down

Report this
DieDaily's avatar

By DieDaily, June 6, 2011 at 1:35 am Link to this comment

I agree with everything Hedges said, but there is one
particular sentence that was just amazing (2nd last
para): “If it is correct that Osama bin Laden is
dead…” Gotta love that. He not only points out that
operationally, Bin Laden had diddly squat to do with
al-Qaida, but that you’d have to be a real dupe to
feel sure that he was really killed last month, and
not, back in 2001-2, say, or even not at all ever.
All we know is that a few government officials and
assassins say they killed him. How often have
government officials and assassins been telling us
the truth in the past? 100% of the time? Some think
so… but as you learn your way around the propaganda
machine… you learn a special trick for telling when
politicians and assassins are likely about to lie:
their lips move.

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By Artful Dodger, May 15, 2011 at 1:05 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Thanks, Maani.

I did not know about Maddow’s possible private doubts over 9-11.

As to the comment on intelligence agencies from various parts of the world seeing the BC as fake, I believe the original source is Wayne Madsen. I can’t entirely discount what Madsen has had to say. Many of our Presidents have had bizarre histories. Jerry Ford was once known as Leslie King, the porn mafia boss of Michigan. He was rather brutal. Reagan was alleged to have raped a woman many years ago, and LBJ had torpedo named Malcolm Wallace who was alleged to have killed 19 people while in service to LBJ. There is a lot of oral history to deep politics, so I can’t say with 100% certainty what is true in these histories. As to WM’s assertion, it is another oral history that one has to do a gut check on.

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By ardee, May 14, 2011 at 5:59 am Link to this comment

QuantumBubbler, May 9 at 1:04 pm

If Hedges stated the the Tea Party was “a monster” then I admit to having missed the citing. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to where it appears.

I believe that said party is a wholly owned subsidiary of Koch Industries and far too many of those who claim membership cite only tired and distorted mantras, feed on adrenalin soaked tirades about issues and policies of which they know only what they have been told.

While one example is far to few to make as fact I am reminded of Rachel Maddow interviewing Tea Party members in Seattle in a video of some months ago. Perhaps you saw it. If you did you cannot escape the fact that none of them had a clue about the specifics of that which they protested.

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blogdog's avatar

By blogdog, May 13, 2011 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

Hedges now claims the Bin Laden death psyop is too big a lie to get away with - so
he must be challenged: he claims that this regime lies about its aiding and
abetting the global financial fraud, the endless wars, Guantanamo, et al, but not
about this - just as the former regime lied about everything except 9/11

time to come clean Chris - you don’t really believe that, but you don’t say so for
risk of your book deals and lecture tours - the fear of being labeled a ‘conspiracy
theorist’ - the ‘scarlet letter’ of modern media, which means they have you on a
short leash too, just like Amy Goodman, Noam Chomsky, Alex Cockburn, et al -
the betallion of Left Gatekeepers

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QuantumBubbler's avatar

By QuantumBubbler, May 9, 2011 at 1:04 pm Link to this comment

I don’t think we have become the monster yet, we’re just a docile people being soaked by a military industrial complex’s cozy monetary relation with our gov… we may become the monster with any increased terrorist acts against us as Chris asserts… but Chris is seeking employment as a liar for the MSM… or is already is.

The Tea Party is a monster according to Chris, right? Racist and all the other names of the demonizing press…

In the end, the blatant lies about the Tea Party (FKA Silent Majority) and their dissing by the MSM will mean as a people we will not be one, we will be divided, we will fail. Kudo’s Chris!

May you receive a P-Prize in hell!

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By postingtonhuff, May 9, 2011 at 8:46 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

selling out to the highest bidder would make sense.
this country, like a drug addicted whore, sells whats
left of itself for nothing but a quick hit.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 9, 2011 at 8:24 am Link to this comment

Patriotism or nationalism seems to have become for now the same as rooting for your home team. States have become cities, has the USA cecome a state in the new national world order as Cliff comments on it, for the control.  It does always seem to be for power and control. 

Our country has sold out to the highest bidder our politicians seem to be pimping our nation. During the last election we saw the chamber of commerce receiving money from outside the USA, and now with corporations being people too, the actions by the GOP speak for themselves. The divide the furthering of separations between the people and their government seems real to me.

The alleged or real demise of the real or alleged Osma ben Ladin, is a concern for me, only for all the frenzied flag waving following, it reminded me of after super bowl hype.  I am suspicious of frenzied alleged or real nationalism

It is not because I feel bad about our nation and our nationalism, (though I feel bad about our nations direction away from liberties and rights, ect.) Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism seems a new form of fascism in the face of the new world order? Does nationalism fit in the new world order as Cliff commented about control compared to conquest? Nationalism must be a facade for jacking around the Unwashed masses emotions?

Are we looking at the developing of a new world order of fascism?

Looking at the following number one; by Dr Britt of his 14 points of fascism.

“From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.”

Asking myself, how does xenophobia fit into the new world order? For now all I see is a set up of a yin and yang, for the feeding off of each other? A balancing act by the powers that be to create a new world order. I suppose if the people keep bickering and fighting, the money changers keep changing money? 

So for now nationalism may be more like rooting for your home team as we evolve into the new world order. Any ideas?

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drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, May 9, 2011 at 2:19 am Link to this comment

“Whence commeth” the initial statement that a comparison of DNA proves
the allegedly murdered old man, is Osama bin Laden?  The USGOV has not
published that Osama bin Laden was in the care of C.I.A. physicians
for years prior to his death, thus had his DNA.
 
The initial persons aware of this were “staff” with access to the
C.I.A., in-house bulletins, and trustworthy acquaintances. Since 2002,
the info has been spread among acquaintances of acquaintances as
clarification to the unbelievable junk that no one with five or more
grains of brain cares to believe. A majority of USGOV employees are
NOT offspring of WWII NAZIs, and who increasingly realize that the
Patriot Act was/is advanced nazification of the U.S.A., as exemplified
by the MOSSAD “body-scanners.”
 
Nor, has the CIA or USGOV published that the CIA knew of the death of
Osama bin Laden, at the time of his death, ten years and 3 mos. ago. 
Nor, has the USGOV published that the “set-up” of the Pakistani family
for the S.E.A.L. to murder, allegedly, was ordered by the occupant of
the U.S.Presidency, regardless of who created the Hollywood plot.

The most recent “leak” suggests that no old man was murdered, only a
disinformation production, similar to the airliner flown into the
pentagon, was carefully produced.  Similar to the “uuuhs” and “ooohs”
of the Obama cabinet looking at a gray TV screen that showed no image
- - .

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, May 8, 2011 at 8:01 pm Link to this comment

leefeller…I must confess your description of “republican ears”...etc…was funny. I had a good belly laugh…

The closer I looked at the details of the photos/ears…I saw the small details didn’t match…my observation! 

Cindy Sheehan’s comments about her son & the Iraq war lies by the government were true. The questions she raised regarding Obama & the killing of OBL were legitimate & need to be answered.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 8, 2011 at 7:40 pm Link to this comment

By the way Robert, ears grow larger as one ages, except for Republicans ears which stay the same size but their heads shrink to the size of their brain which makes their ears look larger….  Researchers have proven the conservative brain seems relative and similar, but only slightly larger than the Ostrich’s brain,... the Ostrich has a brain the size of it eye,... hence the eye size of beady Republicans in relationship to their brain and some say this may also explain why most Republicans look like Mormons. 

You may not be aware of this Robert, but Pinocchio may not have been a true story?

After the way Cindy Sheehan has been treated by the Bush government, and Obama not ending the wars fast enough,  I understand her sentiment,... but that does not make or mean everything she states to be true facts.

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, May 8, 2011 at 7:09 pm Link to this comment

Cindy Sheehan: If You Believe The Newest Death Of Osama Bin Laden YOU’RE STUPID!

 

Youtube

May 7, 2011

“Anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan weighs in on the Bin Laden facade.”

*****

Click on to watch 8 minute video/interview:

http://www.infowars.com/cindy-sheehan-if-you-believe-the-newest-death-of-osama-bin-laden-youre-stupid/

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, May 8, 2011 at 6:57 pm Link to this comment

Bin Laden: The Ears Have It

 
May 8, 2011

“The photo on left is captured from video released today.The photo on right is from verified ABC interview of the real Osama Bin Laden before 911 and YouTube.


Ears are as unique as fingerprints, and they do not change with time. The ears do not match (and the noses are also different). The man in the video watching TV is most definitely not Osama Bin Laden.”


~~~~~~~~

Click on link to view photos & details…!!!

http://www.prisonplanet.com/bin-laden-the-ears-have-it.html

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By Inherit The Wind, May 8, 2011 at 3:52 pm Link to this comment

drbhelthi, May 8 at 11:42 am Link to this comment

...
Your competency as a mental health diagnostician leaves a bit to be desired.

**************

So does yours, pal. Trust me on this.  You are one of the most delusional people posting here.
Physician, heal thyself!

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By omop, May 8, 2011 at 1:53 pm Link to this comment

It may be time to stick to the “she” and the “he” or the “them” and admit
what will satisfy one and all.

Invite OBL’s 3 wives to appear on “the” Oprah, “the” Talk” or dare one say
it “the” View”. And get “the” inside on what did happen between OBL and
the raiders and wether any of the wives attended the funeral.

Pour quoi pas?

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By Shenonymous, May 8, 2011 at 12:27 pm Link to this comment

“As a denizen to your own theater of life, you are of course free to
write your own ticket, explain your version of life to your followers
and offer them your popcorn.”
  Just as you have! 

I may be an academic Dr., but I do not claim to be a dr. of health,
as you do drbehlthi.  It is clear, however, for anyone to see when one
such as you has invented a conspiracy to entertain himself, since you
provide no evidence of al-Qaeda being a subrosa division of the CIA,
it is only your imaginary conjecture.  M’thinks without hard evidence,
you are a type of cabalist jabberwocky.

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By drbhelthi, May 8, 2011 at 11:42 am Link to this comment

“If it is all theater, then it is theater and all we denizens
need to do is to get some popcorn and go along with the pretense that
we are at the movies.”  shenonymous

As a denizen to your own theater of life, you are of course free to write your
own ticket, explain your version of life to your followers and offer them your
popcorn.

Your competency as a mental health diagnostician leaves a bit to be desired.

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By Shenonymous, May 8, 2011 at 10:40 am Link to this comment

Thank you, Leefeller.  It is a beautiful day! I have had a few decades
of rejoicing Mother’s Days.  And yes it can be a lot of work to put
English into Latin.  While today is a day of luxury for me, I do think
about all the saddened mothers in the world who have lost children
or whose children are estranged or who cannot provide a healthy
environment for their children to grow into wholesome human beings. 
Also my best thoughts for mother’s who own their own bodies and
have made the ultimate choice to have or not have babies.

Delusion is an awful disease drbehlthi, and you should heal thyself first
before finding fault with me. 

Even if it were true that al-Qaeda is an extension of the CIA as you
claim, no one should scream about the taking out of one of its own
operatives.  If it is all theater, then it is theater and all we denizens
need to do is to get some popcorn and go along with the pretense that
we are at the movies.

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By drbhelthi, May 8, 2011 at 10:13 am Link to this comment

“Using a Bette Davis film as an analogy, relative to your point I
said,  – “since al Qaeda accepts his death, it ?is irrelevant whether
the man died the other day or long ago, ?irrelevant whether or not
the body that was shot was his, and it ?certainly doesn’t matter who
believes he still lives.” shenonymous

Using honesty as an analogy, if the basis of a postulate is faulty,
the postulate is erroneous.  ” since al Qaeda accepts his death-” is a
broad statement that is not related with time or specific circumstance,
is not evidenced and is thus invalid.  As is your postulate.

Since Al Qaida was initially a sub-organization of the C.I.A., and is
still supervised by C.I.A. operatives, any alleged statement by “Al
Qaida” simply reflects the stance of the C.I.A., which responds directly
to the U.S.President, in accordance with the C.I.A. charter.

Your acceptance of alleged “releases” by Al Qaida raises a question of
your sources for information, and also your literary altruism.

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By Leefeller, May 8, 2011 at 10:02 am Link to this comment

She, Gauisus matris dies, may vos have plures.
Etiam bardus es in ubertas

Ut Romae operor ut Romanorum operoretiam, etiam?

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By Shenonymous, May 8, 2011 at 2:24 am Link to this comment

Merda taurorum animas conturbit
Indeed, reynolds, you are bounced back!  And it bothers me to have
to do that to a verruca.  Oh well.  Having full control of my faculties,
sometimes we have to do things we find repugnant.  Sail on, oh
confused one, sail on. 

illegitimi non carborundum, is the bumper sticker on my tough truck.

Rest assured, Leefeller, May 21, 2011 won’t bring anything of
consequence in terms of a cosmic disaster.  My crystal ball shows a
fine and clear day. Besides there are too many non-Christians around. 
And the SF Jazz Spring Season begins on that day!  Harold Camping is
another freakyidiot who does not deserve to be even in the company of
pigs either but it looks like he spends a lot of time in looking at the
swill.  Someone caught him trying to read the rune pigpoop.  Oh yeah,
the rapture, the rapture.  Ohhhhh   Where is “To pee is to live!”
Giancarlo Gianinni when you need him?  Well please be sure to get the
new prediction date in a couple of weeks and keep us posted.  Much
obliged.  I checked to see if the airlines have changed their schedule. 
They haven’t.  Tickets are confirmed and I will be having a grand time
boating up and down on the Chesapeake and won’t be giving Harold
nary a thought.

This one is for Leefeller:  Corripe Cervisiam

Written in AlJazeera, May 7, “the credibility of bin Laden’s claim to be
acting in defense of Muslims exploded alongside the scores of suicide
bombers dispatched to civilian centers with the direct intention of
massacring swathes of (Muslim) civilians… Bin Laden’s aim was to lead
a popular and mainstream resistance movement, yet al-Qaeda’s
reckless affiliates and their fanatical footmen consigned the group to
the more radical margins of the umma. Their means (massacring
Muslims) contradicted bin Laden’s stated end (protecting the umma).” 
So it was not only Westerners who met their tragic and untimely demise
from this world, but uncountable thousands of Muslims a well that puts
away the idea that every human that is born has the natural right to
fulfill its humanity.  This is what needs to be defined more acutely.

Much has to be done on this side, the West.  It is our responsibility to
be conscious and our right to not only speak out but to act against it. 
In the US, the descriptions of fascism that is being circulated on this
forum is without a doubt an energy that is perpetuated by the power
of the corporatocracy hand in hand with the rich oligarchy.  These
two words are really abstractions for the almost absolute monetary
influence and control those with the means to have almost a
supernatural capacity to dominate and command our lives.  It has
been described incessantly.  When we will get enough of description! 
The repetition is drowning us in our ears.

Bernie Sanders is the only politician who speaks out about the human-
smashing two-headed goliath.  And we need politicians with integrity
on our side (oxymoronic or not!).  His progressive strategy is unique
among those who control this land, and by all appearances can start
this country back to a healthy foundation that cares for its people not
the few abstractly rich and powerful.  It is my opinion that he needs to
be carefully listened to and his ideas both debated then supported.

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By reynolds, May 7, 2011 at 10:22 pm Link to this comment

shenoncomposmentis,
you are deranged. consider yourself bounced.

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By Cliff Carson, May 7, 2011 at 9:43 pm Link to this comment

LeeFeller

Concerning your question about a difference with Britt’s 14 points because of the New World Order.

I do think the points are well conceived and very much to the actual construct of Fascism.  And I don’t see much difference brought by the New World Order because I identify their actions and the 14 points as a road map of control.  They would abhor the word conquest, control is their game.  The people might fight against conquest, but we seem to yield control with hardly a fuss.

I feel the the New World Order is already in place and functioning, it just hasn’t sunk in to most of the population that they have very little if any say in the Governance of Nations.

What I see is a Financial World Empire that has the wherewithal to purchase Governments as Investments.

With their Financial clout they are able to dictate any Nations Policy and Political Functions.  They have been doing this for years.  For example they hire our Government to work for the interests of the World Financial Consortium.  Their interest is Wealth, Power, and Position.  The people they hire expect in return participation in the spoils of the crime.  Seems to me it is working.  Reminds me of the old Protection Racket run by the Mob. 

You might have noticed that just this year there was a serious effort to impose a world income tax (a tax on the common man)to further strengthen the coffers of the “Masters of the World”.  Their small group meets annually to set and re-set the World’s future policies.

The 14 points, to me, seem to be a road map that our elected Government is following, so that it can fit right in with the Real World Governance body.

Our trend is toward a very bleak future for common man.  The Elites of the World will hardly notice.  They are above the law.

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By ardee, May 7, 2011 at 5:34 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller, May 7 at 8:36 am

I find no disagreement with that list, though it describes symptoms and clues. I believe that the one defining characteristic that defines a government as fascist is as Mussolini noted; the control of government by corporations.

The question remains however,now that we can be certain that our own nation is shown to fulfill all fourteen requirements, what the heck do we do now?

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By Shenonymous, May 7, 2011 at 1:05 pm Link to this comment

The word itself does not appear in the US Constitution, it does, of
course, allow for dissenting opinion by way of the 1st Amendment
that guarantees freedom of speech.  However it is qualified. In less
than friendship relationships, one cannot abridge another’s speech
unless the speech is seditious or would be the cause of harm to
another person’s body that could be the cause a mob to panic and
downtrod someone. Slander is a verbal way of hurting another person
so that kind of speech is not freely allowed. There are a few unlawful
uses of speech which you probably already know, or if you don’t,
just do some research. 

In an interpersonal relation it is a different matter, in friendships. 
You already know this too. Personal action is not guided by the U.S.
Constitution but rather on an most often unspoken understanding that
more or less determines the quality of the relationship.  If it is a friend-
to-friend relation, then there is a lattitude of free speech that could
cause a breech in the friendship if care is not taken, so if the friendship
were important to keep, that line is not crossed regardless of what is
wanted to be said and Constitution or not.

My personal beliefs would permit much speech in any interaction with
me as long as whatever is lodged at me is respectful.  I appreciate
countering ideas or opinions as long as opportunity for discussion is
agreed to.  As mentioned either on this blog or on another TD one, I
am generally a believer in reciprocity, but I will qualify that to a degree
that does not impugn or harm my character I am open to most talk,
written or spoken.

Dissenting usually means that for one reason or another a judge in an
appellate or a justice in Supreme Court cases disagrees with some
decision given by the majority of other judges involved. The justice or
justices dissenting will usually write a dissenting opinion that goes
along with the main court opinion. The dissenting opinion will state
reasons why the dissenting justices disagree with the majority decision.

Detritus is a synonym for excreta, but you know that.  It also is a
synonym for sh*t which you also know.  Now if you do not have a pig
to crap on you, I bet it could be arranged, but as I said even that would
not be deserved and it wasn’t said that you would do the crapping on
the pig as you indicated.  And you do know what I said. 

Yes it is possible that you are ‘using’ my name correctly as per your
intention, but you are not spelling it as I prefer, Shenonymous.  I don’t
have a syster, though I may be called certain names: She, and Sheyster. 
I like Shepotamus.  Shrew is okay, as is Shrewnonymous.  Hernonymous
I’ve already said I liked and why.  A lexicon of other names could be
generated but it is the practice of a nasty mind.  Your new ones only
shows your intention to be stupidly, in my opinion, cute and also
denigrating at the same time.  That’s no way to negotiate with a
benign witch.  Nor is your threat to bounce me.  Yeah I know who
Aunt Rose Comfort is.  I don’t live in a dilapidated or a babydoll’s
house.  But not one as elaborate as Osama’s either.  And I don’t take
kindly to threats of violence.  You sound as if you were damaged as a
child.

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By Leefeller, May 7, 2011 at 12:05 pm Link to this comment

Well if any of you plan on doing something, I recommend you do it before May 21, because unreliable sources say the world is supposed to end, ...“long live the world”. 

I plan on taking advantage and becoming an opportunist like the corporations, Donald Trump and Palian, I plan on making out like a ripe ape, ... So I just starting by maxing out all of my credit cards before their 22 day interest chargeing, I will show those 30 perennial interest credit card commies whats what, ...I am trying to figure out how to max out my Exxon card, ....I know I will fill up a whole bunch of gas cans before the price goes down.
Next I am going down to Fats all you can eat place and gorge myself on the AMX card, I never leave home with out it.

Hell, I may even run down and may get one of those high cyclonic at that the new drive though place called Up Yours!

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By reynolds, May 7, 2011 at 11:40 am Link to this comment

shenoncydrew; no, not kidding. i was attempting to
placate you, to shenonywhisper you unto a viable
correspondent. i wanted to ask you if the
constitution, your copy of it, allowed for
dissenting opinion. you don’t have to admit to it,
but i think you have demonstrated that you can be
quite prickly in disagreement, sans porcine
receptacle for your excreta, (to paraphrase your
colloquialism, or was it a typo?).
it’s true, i am without a pig to crap on. you did
say that, didn’t you?
as for using your name correctly, how do you know i
am not using it correctly? maybe you’ve got it
wrong. maybe you think you can shred your bangs, put
on your sister’s clothes and fool old karl.
remember, i played omar bradley, too- and archie
leemeighan, who don’t take kindly to games. i’ll
bounce you like aunt rose comfort.

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By Shenonymous, May 7, 2011 at 10:30 am Link to this comment

Although chimps and other monkeys are regularly found laughing
or what appears to be laughing, a quality unique to humans is the
tendency to both intentionally and spontaneously engage in humor –
for the most part, we enjoy laughing, telling jokes, and being funny.
It is even claimed that humor is a necessary trait in the success
of evolution and serves as an adaptive quality.  I would agree with
that observation.  Even when there are the most horrible events,
comics Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert can make fun or humorous
criticism of what happened in the light of such happenings.  I’ve
heard Stewart even make fun of cannibals.  I think such humor
breaks the sobriety and allows a better inter-analysis of what is at
bottom of the horror and allow passage to understanding then less
violent human inter-action.  I suppose there have been instances
where laughter as a response was had upon the exercise of brutality. 
I admit to certainly having felt the sting from the Gang of Shebangers,
and their almost palpable joy in their vicious verbalizations.  You were
among them especially when you were wishing out loud (in written
form) to harm me physically.  So if Zawahiri’s moral standard, like the
Shebanger’s had humor attached, I suppose we could just wince and
let it go only to be eternally cautious.

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By Shenonymous, May 7, 2011 at 10:29 am Link to this comment

George Santayana, in his “Tragic Sense of Life,” said “if you see the
world through emotion you will cry because the world is a tragic
place. But if you see it through reason you will laugh because it is
absurd. There is no one explanation for what is humor and what
makes people laugh. People with no sense of humor are suspect.
They take themselves and their beliefs all too seriously.”

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By Shenonymous, May 7, 2011 at 10:27 am Link to this comment

Your comedy routine with Ayman al-Zawahiri was a hoot, and Bin
Laden gadding about provided laughable imagery, and I may be the
only one to think so, well maybe Leefeller, and m a a a y beeee ITW,
would find it also a hoot, as we three often have a similar tendency
and reaction to humor, that we oddly get clumped together by the
chronic whiners.  I’ve admitted before on TD that my middle name is
Hyperbole.  Not too many have the wit to recognize its high level. The
conspiracists are pretty much as you described, ridiculous detritus.

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By Shenonymous, May 7, 2011 at 10:26 am Link to this comment

Good morning! Though by now it is afternoon.  The reciprocal
venom is right at the tip of my fangs!  So you were lying after all? 
5 Yups.  We, in the self-collective sense, did suspect.  Are you
suggesting we collude reynolds?  Not unless you respectfully use
my id name correctly. Otherwise take a hike.  You are not a Karl
Malden, a grandfatherly type in his older age.  Such a really nice
man.  My broom stays in idling mode.

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By Shenonymous, May 7, 2011 at 10:08 am Link to this comment

Is there a problem with Truthdig?

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By reynolds, May 7, 2011 at 8:39 am Link to this comment

good morning! don’t with the shenonygans, already,
shevenomous. i hold no monopoly on typos, dead, i
mean dear. for all we know, my entire statement of
contrition was a typo, my self identified broom
rider. i might be karl malden. calma te, mujer.
suppose bin laden returned to his yurt to find
zawahiri in a snit. zawahiri is fuming over having
had to hold down the tent while bin laden, the
darling of the humorless, was gadding about making
videos and posing for terrorist trading cards.
zawahiri’s long simmering jealousy overtakes him. he
kills bin laden, swaps clothes, shreds his bangs
with a pair of scissors and assumes the identity of
the big cheese. so much of the details are swathed
in flowing robes, anyway. i’m just saying it is as
likely a scenario as some of the most ridiculous
shit here posited by my esteemed fellow readers.
when one indulges in conspiracy theories, anything
is possible, therefore everything is possible. the
mental heavyweights who despair of our future will
spend it the way they’ve spent their pasts;
conjecturing wildly about things they know not. now,
use your broom on drbsuave.
piece

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By Leefeller, May 7, 2011 at 8:36 am Link to this comment

Cliff Ardee and all; It doest not mater if I am right, I will change my mind under a good point or two,... but I find most other people never get that far.

When I read and check off Britts 14 points of Fascism, I find a difference because of the new world order. So thanks to Mannie another poster on TD for bringing the following to my attention, see if you see or dissagree with my
observation? (This is a shortend version, if you look at the Britts long version, number one fits the recent event in the killing of OBL, in me eyes.

I am only listing the first 10 because of limted space on posts to 4000 characters!
“Fourteen Characteristics of Fascism”


“Laurence Britt, a political scientist, wrote an article about fascism which appeared in Free Inquiry magazine—a journal of humanist thought.  Mr. Britt studied the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile). He found the regimes all had 14 things in common, and he calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The article is titled ‘Fascism Anyone?’, by Laurence Britt, and appears in Free
Inquiry’s Spring 2003 issue on page 20.

The 14 characteristics are:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism—Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia.
Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights—Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that
human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need”. The people tend to ‘look the other way’ or even approve of torture, summary executions,
assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause—The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived
common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military—Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding,
and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism—The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are
made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6. Controlled Mass Media—Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by
government regulation, or through sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in wartime, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security—Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined—Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public
opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the
government’s policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected—The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power,
creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed—Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated
entirely or are severely suppressed.”

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By Shenonymous, May 7, 2011 at 6:34 am Link to this comment

If you are going to distort what I said, drbehlthi, you need to
give the broom rider’s whole quote.  It has been noticed by other
commenters that you have an amoral habit of adulterating what was
said and picking only parts of what really was said you apparently
think gives yourself some force of argument.  When in fact you only
make your dispute useless.

In response to reynolds’ entrenched supposition using a Bette Davis
film as an analogy, relative to your point I said,  – “since al Qaeda
accepts his death, it ?is irrelevant whether the man died the other day
or long ago, ?irrelevant whether or not the body that was shot was his,
and it ?certainly doesn’t matter who believes he still lives.  For all tense
and ?purposes it is as if it were he who was killed May 1.  It is just as
likely it ?was.  Whatever is the case, he is now just an iconic abstraction
and the ?accepted memory of him can be paraded as an excuse to
continue ?the now established unending cycle of revenge.” 

If Bin Laden was killed in Winter 2001-2002, why wait 9 years later to
start bewailing about it or taking revenge?  So it is patently absurd. 
Why?  Because i might matter to particular people whether Bin Laden’s
was the body killed May 1, or in 2001-2001, which by the way is quite
indefinite in any case, postulating it was almost a decade ago is on the
edge of burlesque.  And you don’t know that your claim is true, you
only conjecture based on spurious information so that you can justify
your disbelief.  Again, it doesn’t matter what exactly is the case, since
the man is dead to al Qaeda, and for them he was killed just the other
day.  Besides, his Yemeni mail-ordered young wife identified the body,
or do you accuse she was in collusion with the Americans?  He was their
leader, not yours, or maybe you are al-Qaeda and if so, again why did
you wait until now to say he had been killed almost a decade ago? 
And here is the rub:  Of course, to maintain he was killed so many years
ago, the identity of those who shielded him in Pakistan would be a
non-argument.  Illusion, delusion, distraction,... comes in many forms. 
There is more proof on the side of May 1 than there is for 9 years ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/07/world/asia/07qaeda.html?_r=1&src=ISMR_HP_LO_MST_FB
Al Qaeda Confirms Bin Laden’s Death by Elizabeth A. Harris, NYT, May 6, 2011

The Columbus Dispatch, May 7, 2011
Al-Qaida vows revenge - In acknowledging Osama bin Laden’s death,
the terror group says it is far from finished. Experts warn of small-scale
acts of retaliation

The Washington Times, May 6, 2011.  Al Qaeda vows revenge for bin Laden’s
death

AlJazeera - May 6, 2011
Al-Qaeda vows revenge for bin Laden death - Group confirms death of its
leader in an online posting and says it will continue attacks on the West.

There are 914,000 results if googling al-Qaeda vows revenge for Bin Laden death

It would seem all the announcements for revenge indicates a widepread belief by
al-Qaeda that the Navy Seals did indeed kill Bin Laden and not a doppleganger.

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By ardee, May 7, 2011 at 5:58 am Link to this comment

Leefeller, May 6 at 10:20 am

I certainly agree that it is a complex world in which we find ourselves, all the more complex when one gives thoughtful consideration to the acts committed in our name.

I find that giving weight to one particular cause or action over any other might seem a herculean task and one that remains suspect in my mind frankly. I offer that it is all a part of the reasons why we meet here, or most of us at any rate. I do exempt the crazies and egomaniacs who come here for reasons other than patriotism or humanitarian desire to make things better.

I understand your point, or think I do at any rate. You find the hubbub over bin Laden’s demise, or the conspiracy theories quickly arisen from said act, to be a distraction from the very real problems we need to grapple with and overcome. You may very well be right.

I, to cite another viewpoint, believe that politicizing folks is a requirement of progress. Those who begin by discussion what appears to be sidebars and distractions, may very well go on to find themselves considering other points in need of discourse. They may, possibly, even become politicized and even active.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. It beats talking sports or shopping, or whatever now doesn’t it?

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By Inherit The Wind, May 7, 2011 at 5:36 am Link to this comment

Yeah, we know OBL isn’t either dead or captured. He’s livin’ it up with Elvis, Che,and Amelia Earhardt.

“Elvis isn’t dead. He just went home”—Men In Black

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By drbhelthi, May 7, 2011 at 1:52 am Link to this comment

” - since al Qaeda accepts his death, it is irrelevant whether the man
died the other day or long ago, irrelevant whether or not the body that
was shot was his, and it certainly doesn’t matter who believes he still
lives.” Shenonymous

Once upon a time, principles and scruples represented honesty and
integrity. This still holds for many of us.

Thus, the factual date of decease of Osama bin Laden, Winter 2001-2002,
versus the C.I.A./Obama disinformation is very relevant for some of us. 
The identity of the dying old man who was murdered - after having been
provided sanctuary in the U.S. controlled enclave -  due to his Osama
bin Laden appearance, is NOT irrelevant for me.  From what I read, nor
for the average American.  For certain, Europeans - especially Germans
- want the bare truth, not Obama/C.I.A. disinformation. 

What is the value of sticking a toe into the cesspool?

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By Shenonymous, May 6, 2011 at 11:07 pm Link to this comment

We cannot be certain of much of anything.  Continuing to call
me names, reynolds, betrays your expressed contrition.  That is
something I can be certain of.  You show a feigned appearance of
sincerity and a lack of integrity.  Without principles and scruples
a person isn’t worth anything.

While it is true that a Bette Davis stand-in for Osama bin Laden
could have been substituted, since al Qaeda accepts his death, it
is irrelevant whether the man died the other day or long ago,
irrelevant whether or not the body that was shot was his, and it
certainly doesn’t matter who believes he still lives.  For all tense and
purposes it is as if it were he who was killed May 1.  It is just as likely it
was.  Whatever is the case, he is now just an iconic abstraction and the
accepted memory of him can be paraded as an excuse to continue
the now established unending cycle of revenge. 

BTW:  It was Dead Ringer.

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By reynolds, May 6, 2011 at 10:09 pm Link to this comment

we can’t be certain there wasn’t a doppelganger in the
woodpile, shenomolous. it happened to bette davis in
warner bros’ 1964 “dear ringer”.

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By doublestandards/glasshouses, May 6, 2011 at 5:04 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Nothing gets an American president all psyched up like killing people.  Obama is on a high.  This afternoon he met the seals who carried out the mission and was introduced to the one who killed bin Laden.  He’s morphing into Bush.  It would be great to have a president who gets psyched on life rather than death but in the twilight of empire I supposed that’s too much to hope for.  Watch out…  praise for military prowess is music to a president’s ears.  What or who is next?

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By Leefeller, May 6, 2011 at 4:46 pm Link to this comment

Parsalonious a good friend of mine has top level coherences above both ears and also top hush, shush clearances. He told me the FIB does not do torture and they do not even preform the Bush inhabited irrigation Methodist, so I know this is absolutists fact with a twist of certainty!

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By Shenonymous, May 6, 2011 at 4:26 pm Link to this comment

For those on this blog who floated the conspiracy that Bin Laden
was not dead, it ought to wake them up that al-Qaeda verified that
he was indeed dead. It is ludicrous to suggest a lookalike was the
one killed.  The question is why would they do that?  And the
subsequent logical answer is that there is jockeying for top position
in the organization.  Ayman al-Zawahri does not seem to have the
charisma required to command attention, yesss sir! treatment, at
least that is the gossip from the Middle East.  Then there is Anwar
al-Awlaki born in the US.  Also Egyptian Saif al-Adel, Saudi Adnan
Gulshair el-Shukrijumah, Abdullah Ahmed Abdullah, another Egyptian,
and finally another American we must guess had given up his
citizenship when he converted to Islam, Adam Gadhan.  So in spite of a
vow of revenge, logically, it would not do any of these men any good to
have Bin Laden not declared dead when he really was.  And if he really
wasn’t, how could they exercise his jihad?  This way, with him really
really dead, they get to do it absentia.  As printed in Al Jazeera, “This
news has been a catastrophe for us. At first we did not believe it, but
we got in touch with our brothers in Pakistan who have confirmed it,” a
member told the AFP news agency.”

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By Cliff Carson, May 6, 2011 at 3:07 pm Link to this comment

I agree with you Leefeller.

Why is it that so many ignore those things important to the future, something their children must live in, and instead of trying to effect positive change they seem to adopt the Alfred E. Newman approach.

As I read thru these threads I am astounded at the ease with which some chase a goal of ignorance.  This event of the death of Bin Laden is a major happening that has great import for the future.  From it can come good, and also from it can a bad outcome be realized.

What I have been seeing on TV daily is an attempt by our Government to “spin” it to be a validation of all the nefarious activities by our Government over the last ten years.

To me the fact that a once ardent supporter of America (Bin Laden)and the American concern for an Afghanistan people invaded by the Soviets could in these 10 years morph into our “hero” at the time of the Afghan need become such a bitter enemy, and we the American people would replace the Soviets as the oppressor of the Afghan peoples.

What was it that Afghanistan did to deserve this destruction of decades of their life?  And why does it continue unabated. 

Why don’t we beg forgiveness of the Afghan people and get out?

That is what I wonder about these days.

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By aaron fleszar, May 6, 2011 at 12:47 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

THE CIA IS SUPPRESSING THIS WITH THE MADE UP BIN LADEN KILLED STORY
EVERYONE WHO STARTED COPYING AND PASTING THIS ON ALL BIN LADEN STORIES YESTERDAY GOT MESSAGE BOARDS SHUT DOWN. WONDER WHY?

Here are some wanted terrorists, some for U.S. embassy bombings in Kenya & Indonesia, look-a-likes for media moguls, CEO’s, and the current administration. This is a large organization of scam artists who ran the last election on Youtube. I’ve been tortured after reporting this 3 years ago to FBI

All of this was online years before the last election. Search Google Images for;
Mark Joyner Simpleology-FBI Wanted Seif Al Adel (Sarah Palin’s book Palinology)
John Ferrero-FBI Wanted Ramadan Shallah
Yaro Starak-FBI Wanted Umar Patek
Armand Morin FBI Wanted and now “dead” Noordin M Top
Michael Filsaime—FBI Wanted Ali Sayyid Muhamed Mustafa al-Bakri (Die Hard 4 “Fire Sale” The cyber attack on our infrastructure)
Dr. Mani Sivasubramanian-FBI Wanted Ammar Mansour Bouslim
Carl Galletti-FBI Wanted—Ahmed Garbaya, Samir Salwwan
Ted Ciuba-FBIWanted Abdul Rahman Yasin
Jay Abraham- (look a like for Osama’s right hand man Ayman al-Zawahri)
Jay Conrad Levinson- (look a like for George Soros)—key point (mastermind? Proponent for a one world government, collapsing of currencies)
Internet Million Dollars Professor James Bradley- Communist University Professor Bill Ayers (the Pentagon bomber)
Rosalind Gardner-(Jill Biden or look a like)
Stephen Pierce-(look a like-Van Jones “Green Jobs Czar”)
Perry Marshall - (Reverend Pfleger or look a like)
Brett McFall-(look a like for Austan Goolsbee)
John Childers-(look a like for Andy Stern)
Howard L Moreland- (look a like for Michael Moore)
Yanik Silver -(Ex-Google CEO, Sergei Brin look a like)
John Carlton-(look a like for liberalist “the dude” Jeff Bridges)
Youtube’s-Rich Jerk videos-American Airlines Stadium basketball Maverick Mark Cuban (American Airlines flt#77 hit the Pentagon on 9/11)
Youtube’s-Robert Johnson Rich Jerk – Tony Rezko (the guy who sold Obama some of his property, arrested and convicted)
No Money Down Real Estate – Carleton Sheets (Jimmy Carter look a like)
Oprah Winfrey’s galpal Gail King (Whitney Houston(whit_ hous_)look a like)(Has“secret” boyfriend now who looks like Eric Holder)
Lorrie Morgan Ferrero’s Red-Hot-Copy.com blog and website has others associated with the current administration, in addition to 72 Virgin Records Richard Branson, and White House Party Crashers the Salahi’s with Valerie Jarrett’s daughter Laura.

Sarah Palin’s family & history is fabricated using logarithms. She became a media magnet to flush out Barack (O’Bomber) Obama’s entire socialist “organized community.” Her name, Sarah (Barrac)uda) Palin, is short for palindrome, such as SOROS. McCain’s favorite band is ABBA, another palindrome. They both claim to be Mavericks. Palin coined the term “mama grizzly.” Interstate 77 American Airlines Stadium NBA Maverick Mark Cuban was under investigation for insider trading of a search company called Mamma. The first forum to attack and hack me online was FIB Scams 101 with the owner called Mama. On 9/11 American Airlines flight 77 hit the Pentagon. Palin’s daughter “Willow,” is short for Willow Run Airport off I-94, her birthday 7/7/94. “Piper,” also a plane, shares a birthday with Bruce Willis (John McC(l)ane the guy who fights the terrorists in Die Hard.) Sarah’s “siblings” are Heather Heath Bruce and Molly Heath McCa(n)n. “Trig” Palin shares a birthday with congressmen from WI, IL, and MI. “Track” Palin shares a birthday with Adolf Hitler. Obama shares a birthday with Nobel Peace Prize winner Yasser Arafat. “Tripp” Palin appears to have multiple birthdays, like Yasser.

In my strongest opinion, Osama Bin Laden is also a spokesperson, and a look-a-like. Osama represents Obama/Biden (Bi)n La(den.)

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By reynolds, May 6, 2011 at 11:22 am Link to this comment

feller; does your catalog of idle divertissements
include checking in here frequently? because, you know,
idle is as idol does. i do share what i think is your
contempt for dancing with the idols, though you might
have hit on a plan;
the putative two parties could be coupled and forced to
dance on television. i’m talking everyone of us in a
virginia reel of democracy. the independents could tap,
or clog. i’d watch. i’d accept the standard data
charges that my text/vote be counted. i regret that i
have but one life to give to my television.

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By Leefeller, May 6, 2011 at 10:20 am Link to this comment

I do wonder about some things a bit Ardee, like; Why no one seems to notice or care as we watch the contentious ever widening gap between our government and the the unwashed masses.  A gap of inequities.. . 

I am wondering about constant diversions, in our daily lives supported by the many people who seem to not want to think for themselves and would rather let the Pope or Osma ben Ladan or their favorite talking head or even their alleged representative government think for them. ...An underhanded cornucopia of manipulations using some very basic and common things to think about, made to seem important things to fret over, designed to keep the huddled masses busy with constant crises and plastic fascinations, such as this hype on Osma ben Ladan, for now superseding Trump! So someone being shot in the head, donated to the ocean as crab food,  as a substitute for regular real important stuff like the gays, aliens, womens right, a fricking birth certificate, if one is of one religion or another.  I worry about dancing with the stars. about who will be the next American Idiot.  Everything seems choreographed to keep the huddled masses on edge, entertained and happy.

I wonder about a two party system which seems to be osmosising into one, both seem to follow the money! .  Spreading Democracy in our own image,...  a slowly tainted Democracy (really a alleged republic)  with limited freedoms and fewer and fewer rights. So I wonder why we are even allowed to vote for money interests, choices between bought and paid for Darrel and his other paid for brother darrel.  I wonder a bit about fraudulent elections, with increasing restrictions and intimidations for voters?

Do I need to call attention to all the inequities heaped on the daily lives of the people, especially since Bush’s 911, the list of peoples rights and liberties taken away from them?  I see a society so stupid and manipulated they vote against their own best interests and would refuse their rights.

Yes Ardee, I do wonder about some things a bit,... but not a bullet in one mans head especially… one so despicable, though I wonder what kind of bullet?

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By Inherit The Wind, May 6, 2011 at 10:15 am Link to this comment

DRnot-so-helthi:

Try hiding under the bed.
If that doesn’t work, try hiding in the closet.

If I was one of you patients and saw the insanity you post, I’d be reporting you to the state.

Maybe not. A person would have to be CRAZY to have a whack-job like you as his analyst.

Nazis and Zionists all on the same side…whack-job!

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By Dale Headley, May 6, 2011 at 9:59 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

God, of course, created the universe in all its vastness for one purpose: to
establish America and to people it with beings superior to all others in the world. 
Therefore, it is not just okay for American hegemony to be extended around the
world, including in lands where Jesus Christ is not worshipped, it is ordained! As
George W. Bush proclaimed: it is a “crusade.”  So what if we killed a million
innocent Iraqis in a quest for oil and glory?  Very few of them were Christians,
right?

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By Maani, May 6, 2011 at 9:07 am Link to this comment

Artful Dodger:

Re Maddow, it might interest you to know that, based on a VERY reliable source (and more than one off-the-record comment), she agrees re the “anomilies” of 9/11, but dare not “speak their name” - or even be seen as giving any weight to them - for fear of immediately being ousted.

drbhelthi:

“Meanwhile, intelligence agencies of five nations have declared the recent “Obama Birth Certificate” to be fraudulent.”

Source, please.

And finally, a word from the master, Adolf Hitler:

“Propaganda must always address itself to the broad masses of the people…All propaganda must be presented in a popular form and must fix its intellectual level so as not to be above the heads of the least intellectual of those to whom it is directed…The art of propaganda consists precisely in being able to awaken the imagination of the public through an appeal to their feelings, in finding the appropriate psychological form that will arrest the attention and appeal to the hearts of the national masses. The broad masses of the people are not made up of diplomats or professors of public jurisprudence nor simply of persons who are able to form reasoned judgment in given cases, but a vacillating crowd of human children who are constantly wavering between one idea and another…The great majority of a nation is so feminine in its character and outlook that its thought and conduct are ruled by sentiment rather than by sober reasoning. This sentiment, however, is not complex, but simple and consistent. It is not highly differentiated, but has only the negative and positive notions of love and hatred, right and wrong, truth and falsehood…Propaganda must not investigate the truth objectively and, in so far as it is favourable to the other side, present it according to the theoretical rules of justice; yet it must present only that aspect of the truth which is favourable to its own side…The receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble. On the other hand, they quickly forget. Such being the case, all effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas. These slogans should be persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward…Every change that is made in the subject of a propagandist message must always emphasize the same conclusion. The leading slogan must of course be illustrated in many ways and from several angles, but in the end one must always return to the assertion of the same formula…But the most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly and with unflagging attention. It must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over. Here, as so often in this world, persistence is the first and most important requirement for success.”

Sound like any country we know?  LOL.

Peace.

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By Shenonymous, May 6, 2011 at 5:05 am Link to this comment

Brooms are the most efficient way to circumnavigate the universe.

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By Shenonymous, May 6, 2011 at 5:02 am Link to this comment

Phenomenon Shenomenon says “reynolds, good morning!  Peace.”

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By drbhelthi, May 6, 2011 at 3:51 am Link to this comment

It is becoming increasingly easy..to identify the shills on Truthdig.
WWII NAZIs and progeny, their NAZI element of the C.I.A., assisted by
Zionists and their MOSSAD, increasingly take over the reigns of the
Western and Mid-Eastern world.  Their propaganda increases, as
accurate information is increasingly suppressed in international news
media.  Even their shills attempt it on Truthdig. 

Meanwhile, intelligence agencies of five nations have declared the
recent “Obama Birth Certificate” to be fraudulent.  The current CIA
director has provided information that evidences the picture of Obama
and Cabinet allegedly watching the illegal S.E.A.L. attack to be
fraudulent.  We can expect him to be replaced; very soon.

Whether hired to repeat the propaganda, or spontaneous - by lack of
knowledge coupled with stupidity - the shills of the New World Order
are clearly identifying themselves on Truthdig.  It is sad to me, that
some folk, genuinely of the Jewish faith, are caught up in the
disinformation program.  Naturally, some of them are satanic plants,
as was the trigger-puller who murdered the great American Patriot,
Federal Judge John Roll in Tucson, in early January.  It has emerged
that Judge Roll´s efforts to call attention to the Federal Case
pileup, due to the increase in illegal immigration and drug cases,
influenced the decision to “remove” him.  Apparently, such information
interfered with the U.S. GOV “leadership´s” suppression and
scapegoating of Arizona authority.

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By ardee, May 6, 2011 at 3:09 am Link to this comment

Leefeller, May 5 at 8:35 am

Do you not wonder, even a bit, why an unarmed bin Laden was not captured by that Seal Team?
I do not mourn his passing obviously, nor do I subscribe to the various conspiracy theories abounding here. Yet it does give one pause, or should, to read that he was executed summarily rather than being brought before the bar of justice.

Insert here the usual noting of the ravings of my favorite broom rider, who, it seems, has abandoned all pretense of sanity at last.

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By reynolds, May 5, 2011 at 10:53 pm Link to this comment

shenomenon; good morning! i was thinking shirley
booth.
i’d like to start anew. i apologize for not acting
as a gentleman. i should not wish to impugn the
sterling character of my parents, nor to discomfit
you, nor any of my fellows, by indulging in boorish
behavior and low discourse. i know well enough how
to behave. it’s the actual behaving i have yet to
master. i’m depraved on account of i’m deprived.
in short;
you are the earth mother, and we are all flops.
flop.
i make this peace offering in response to one of
your hallmark jaunty if imprecise one-liners used to
close an earlier post (i am not a liar).
you phrase maker, you;

“conscience is a word yet to be defined.”

con·science/?känCH?ns/
Noun: An inner feeling or voice viewed as acting as
a guide to the rightness or wrongness of one’s
behavior. Not to be confused with consciousness.
see: Conscience (disambiguation).
Conscience is an aptitude, faculty, intuition, or
judgment of the intellect that distinguishes right
from wrong. Moral evaluations of this type may
reference values or norms (principles and rules). In
psychological terms conscience is often described as
leading to feelings of remorse when a human commits
actions that go against his/her moral values, and to
feelings of rectitude or integrity when actions
conform to such norms.

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By Artful Dodger, May 5, 2011 at 10:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Yes, Shenonymous, we all have our speculations, but what bothers me was that we never interrogated OBL. There was never a medical exam of the corpse. Doesn’t habeus corpus mean anything? And yet we have this top spook, Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, saying that OBL died from Morfan syndrome about 10 years ago. If government wants to quell speculative narratives of history and current events, then it should act more openly. And I think it is only normal, for a person who is being lied to, to come up with a working theory of reality in order to make sense of dissonant “facts” and stories. I think “conspiracy theorists” are probably the only ones working toward some sort of truth. It is unfortunate that most people who are gaslighted will let a bully knuckle them under to a false reality. I think people like Maddow, Schwartz, and Taibi are just as harmful to the public as any of the Neocons like Bill O’Reilly and company. Paranoid, wary people do not come up out of a vacuum. You must admit there has to a cause, i.e. government lying, for the effect, conspiracy speculation. I tried to get on the Maddow radio show on Air America Radio to speak on the anomalies of 9-11, and I was filtered out every time. There always seemed to be commemoration show to honor some civil rights leader or some labor union organizer, but never enough oxygen to question the global war on terror. She took very few phone calls from the public. It was as if she disdained the public. Somehow she was the great wise woman, who scorned the profane masses. I have always found her arrogant and condescending from her AAR days on forward. As to Al Qaeda, it was only as evil as its backers pushed it to be. It has always been a CIA operation. Refer to Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik for further facts.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 5, 2011 at 4:50 pm Link to this comment

I’ll bet to Diamond and the other tin-foilers, they’ve got “evidence” that Ramzi Yuseff is really a Mossad agent named “Ruben Bar Yoseph”...typical wack-job thinking.

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By Shenonymous, May 5, 2011 at 3:32 pm Link to this comment

So reynolds is slithering back into his hole.  It is the safest place
for the snake or the Shebanonymous will be sure to get him. I like
that one.  Sheba nonymous.  Great association.  But maybe not
what he intended!  Queen of Ethiopia or Yemen, is interpreted
differently by different religions, of course.  But in all stories, she
is the Queen. The three wise men of Christianity came from Sheba’s
Queendom and their gifts to the nativity are the gifts of the Sheba
Magi, as clearly illustrated by Hieronymus Bosch (my namesake
Hernonymus as appointed to me by the gang-banger, reynolds! Isn’t
that a hoot?  What goes around comes around).  The Renaissance
called her the Queen of All of Arabia!  And further, Christopher
Marlowe’s Doctor Faustus refers to the Queen of Sheba as Saba, when
Mephistopheles is trying to persuade Faustus of the wisdom of the
women with whom he supposedly shall be presented every morning. 
And discoveries in Mareb, Yemen support the view that the Queen of
Sheba ruled over southern Arabia, with evidence suggesting that the
area was the capital of the Kingdom of Sheba.  So thanks to you,
reynolds, you are perceptive to some degree after all!  LOL If I may
steal my own line back, hahaha, “Just thought I’d letchew knowz,
becawz ahs carez’bout youse.”  I lie.  I don’t care ‘boutchew one itsybit,
reynolds.  Peals of laughter is heard round Queen She’s palace!

diamond, ahs don’t carez’bout youse either.  I have to laugh heartily,
when you said, “The truth is you couldn’t win a debate with a fifth
grade school child because you talk non stop garbage and constantly
lie about everything,” which shows you have the mentality of less than
a fifth grader since I have beat you at debate consistently.  Well, can’t
really call it a debate since you haven’t said anything of quality that
could qualify for discussion.  You and your cohorts are only moderately
good at name-calling.  I say moderately good since I like some of them. 
So if it’s garbage you want to smell, just look at your own posts and
take a whiff.  Yikes. What’s that sulphur smell?  Just say I consistently
whupped yo’ass and I’ll let it go at that!

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By Shenonymous, May 5, 2011 at 3:14 pm Link to this comment

Extraordinary events require extraordinary measures.  It was not a
matter of ‘killing others,” and it is not the Grail of our “civilized”
nation.  That is a way of putting it and most certainly it is a possible
interpretation depending on the way one “wants” to interpret it.  The
hunt for Bin Laden has been nearly a ten year hunt.  It never was to
be a question of ethics or morality for there is no equation that
would offset the numbers of people killed on both sides for a
conflict initiated by Bin Laden’s al-Qaeda even before 9/11.

The al-Qaeda were responsible for the 1993 bombing of the Trade
Center.  Abdul Basit Mahmoud Abdul Karim, born in Kuwait and spent
time at Al-Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan was the mastermind of
the ’93 attack.  A conspirator, Mahmud Abouhalima, later stated that
the original plan was to hit the United Nations headquarters earlier in
the morning.  Author Simon Reeve theorized that something went
wrong, such as Ramzi Yousef, one of the conspirators, encountering
too much security, that the target was switched to the World Trade
Center.  Three demands in letters mailed to the printed media were:
1. to end to all US aid to Israel, 2. to end to US diplomatic relations with
Israel, and 3. a demand for a pledge by the United States to end
interference “with any of the Middle East countries’ interior affairs.” 
This was to be just the first of such attacks if his demands were not
met.  Six adults and one unborn child were killed and 1,042 were
injured. At that time the towers didn’t collapse, which was what Yousef
had planned.  But the explosion extensively damaged the garage.  What
is crucial, had the van been parked closer to the WTC’s poured concrete
foundations, his plan might have succeeded killing thousands both
inside the building and outside.  It certainly looks as if many of those
anti-Americans posting here on this forum would have enjoyed it if that
had been the history.  Yousef escaped to Pakistan several hours after
the bombing.  Seems like Afghanistan and Pakistan were implicated
even back then.

It is a big mistake to think this nation, the US, is a Christian nation
that turns the other cheek.  Bin Laden was the number one wanted
man on the face of the earth since 9/11.  He masterminded the attack,
is given credit for being the mastermind, and had since then openly
admitted he was the mastermind.  He was wanted dead or alive.  The
Seals are trained to shoot then ask questions, not really to ask
questions, just shoot.  They do not send in Seals to have discussions. 

It seems unless one is an al-Qaeda flunky, obsessing over how he was
killed is unavailing and without purpose.  The idea that he could have
been brought to trial is ludicrous at best.  You expect the US to have a
conscience when the al-Qaeda do not.  It is sort of congruent with the
way the American people think about the Republicans.  Conscience is a
word yet to be defined.

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By Leefeller, May 5, 2011 at 1:25 pm Link to this comment

Dalai Lama said after Osma ben Ladin final incident;

“Forgiveness doesn’t mean forget what happened… If something is serious and it is necessary to take counter-measures, you have to take counter-measures.”

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By Al Salzman, May 5, 2011 at 12:39 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Cyberspace encourages the asinine to pontificate, hiding their faces and even their names.  The electronic enema also emits foul smelling blather from folks who would never defend their views in the real world and insult those, like Chris Hedges, who have paid their dues, by going out in the world and putting their lives on the line to gather information unprocessed by the corporate media. More power to Mr. Hedges and less gibberish from the eunuchs of the internet.

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By french man, May 5, 2011 at 11:25 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Good news. The fear and excuse of Osama is no more. So let’s hope the US would redirect energies to educate it’s people. But since when that is in the interst of the govering elite?

People ! You are on your won. Whatever the ideologies and opinions, truth is your best fiend. Look for it, hard, as it were your life !

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By mister.mackey, May 5, 2011 at 10:16 am Link to this comment

mmmkay.  Mr Hedges is delusional and egotistic, mmmkay.  How can you submit reason and
first hand experience to suicidal ideas such as his?  It is truly marvelous how the
brain works.  Moreover, how inflated his ego can get?  Once the limits have been
crossed, it’s boundless.

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By Robert, May 5, 2011 at 9:22 am Link to this comment

By diamond, May 4 at 9:18 pm

“I think your main concern re 9/11 is that sooner or later the finger will also point at your beloved Israel. As, of course, it will if the truth ever gets told.”

~~~~~~~~~~

Diamond…

The Israeli Mossad was involved in 9/11…NO doubt about it !!! 

*****


ON 9/11 ISRAELIS / MOSSAD WERE ARRESTED:


1) CELEBRATING THE ATTACK “THE HIGH-FIVERS”

2) CAUGHT TRYING TO BLOW UP THE GEORGE WASHINGTON BRIDGE “A TRUCK/WHITE VAN WITH TONS OF EXPLOSIVES”

3) BLOWING UP A VAN ON KING ST NEAR 6TH & 7TH


Click on link to watch video (~ 8 minutes) where Dan Rather & other news reporters on 9/11…


Israeli’s with Bombs & Arab Disguises Caught on 9-11! Censored!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Jfu0nVjjs0&feature=related

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By DavidByron, May 5, 2011 at 9:05 am Link to this comment

Chris Hedges as usual pulling the punch.

“the flip side of nationalism is always racism, it’s about self-exaltation and the denigration of the other”

Firstly the word is “patriotism” not “nationalism”.  Quit being coy.  Secondly its not the flip side.  Its the only side.

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By reynolds, May 5, 2011 at 8:49 am Link to this comment

i mean i “Just thought I’d let you know, becawz ahs
cares about youse.”

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By reynolds, May 5, 2011 at 8:44 am Link to this comment

good morning!
come back, little shebanonymous, as if you would go
away. take a big breath, assange whisperers.
sorry about all the juvenile, ad hominem stuff here,
but it’s difficult to take a “conversation”
seriously which is a steaming pile of speculation,
conspiracy theories, scary campfire stories of a
bogie man, if he ever existed. i haven’t seen britt
reid since the dust up. do you suppose bin laden was
maybe the green hornet?
killing each other is genetically encoded in humans
beings or they have been faking it for ever just to
disappoint you.
i’ll beg out now, so you and the serious scholars-
shenonsense, inculcate the wind, gone wrong old man,
leeyeller, maaaani, zircon, smurfnow, chavitzathing
and the serious types- can unravel the mystery, once
and for all, repeatedly. i’m not saying elvis, but
all roads lead to graceland.
piece.

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By Leefeller, May 5, 2011 at 8:35 am Link to this comment

As usual bickering escalates and subsides, the good news is we have the two party system to pick sides and bicker with. Of course nothing gets done, well of late the Republicans seem to be the smarter of the two parties, only because they seem very much like the fascists they are, using the bully tactics of working together with cloned lock step Exlax regularity, and always sponsored by their ever present benefactors.

Get a grip bunkmates,..  Osama bin Lade is dead, he is gone, deceased, he no longer exists except in the memories of morons, zealots, you know dogma worshipers.

So he was shot in the head, that can only mean one thing…
The last thing in Osama bin Laden had on his mind was a bullet….. What would one rather, the chopping off his head?  They could have stuck Osma ben Ladian in a building and flew a fuel loaded jumbo jet into it?

My gosh, you did not get to see the body? Why should you see anything,... who the hell are you, but a bickering whiny little sissy boys or girls, slobs on the street, non entitys, cannon fodder and consumers to the powers that be,.... you are the unwashed masses and so am I

Hero makers are disappointed and upset, for they will not get to see the photos, and the body cannot be marched through the streets and ally ways of Arabia with the frenzied feelings of his self proclamations of his own greatness.  Sorry children did not happen! So slipped into the sea with an anchor around his neck,... crab food Osama! Me cry!

Back to conspiring about conspiring, we must entertain ourselves as reality serves no purpose only as a distraction!

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, May 5, 2011 at 8:34 am Link to this comment

Leon Panetta said there was no video feed.


“Leon Panetta, director of the CIA, revealed there was a 25 minute blackout during which the live feed from cameras mounted on the helmets of the US special forces was cut off.

A photograph released by the White House appeared to show the President and his aides in the situation room watching the action as it unfolded. In fact they had little knowledge of what was happening in the compound.

In an interview with PBS, Mr Panetta said: “Once those teams went into the compound I can tell you that there was a time period of almost 20 or 25 minutes where we really didn’t know just exactly what was going on. And there were some very tense moments as we were waiting for informatio­n.
“We had some observatio­n of the approach there, but we did not have direct flow of informatio­n as to the actual conduct of the operation itself as they were going through the compound.”

Mr Panetta also told the network that the US Navy Seals made the final decision to kill bin Laden rather than the president.

Odd this is reported in UK news but NOT US news.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/lemmyk73/osama-bin-laden-pictures_n_857568_87071097.html

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By Wikileaks for Nobel, May 5, 2011 at 7:11 am Link to this comment

It is disheartening to read so much juvenile ad hominem stuff here.  It adds nothing to what might loosely be called “conversation.”

This is an important subject; I’m sorry to see so many people trivialize it by turning it into a verbal mosh pit. 

We’re in deep trouble when killing others is the Grail of our “civilized” nation.

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By Shenonymous, May 5, 2011 at 4:23 am Link to this comment

Good Morning to the savages and the civilized.
diamond, you’re nothing but a dithering miscreant She-bashing
wart.  Being a petty asshole is a pathetic way to get off.

A few sound bites to keep you clacking:
Dick Cheney was the one that claimed a connection between Bin
Laden and Hussein, then denied he said it. 

Sending Bin Laden to the briney deep was a smart move.  Any burial
on land would have set up a shrine and the all the Osama parasites
would have had a field day.  Ridding the world of Bin Laden is without
any doubt a massive and far reaching blow to al-Qaeda.  Also there
should be no doubt its scattered organization will give it the likelihood
to strike on uncountable objectives.  So there is still much vigilance to
keep. 

That Israel was in al-Qaeda sites is well-known.  In late 2005, Abu
Musab al-Zarqawi ‘s network attacked three Jordanian hotels in Amman. 
At the time, militant Islamic websites had announced: “After the attack
in the heart of Jordan, it will soon be possible to reach Jewish targets in
Israel.” 

Al Jazeera, the clearest voice of what is going on in the Middle East, is
unusually mild in its reporting of the Bin Laden affair.  Articles are non-
editorial. 

Havana good day, if you can.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 5, 2011 at 3:50 am Link to this comment

Diamond:
As it has been said before, you are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own “facts”.

That’s why I have no respect for you or your feeble dead-end-laden attempts at “logic” to justify your crackpot ideas.

“Why not go after Saudi Arabia?” How FUCKING stupid can you be??? The guys identified on the planes were all Al Qaeda and Al Qaeda was working in Afghanistan, not Saudi Arabia!

And, in one of those “inconvenient truths” you have omitted, the Bush Administration from Day 1 through to September 10, 2001, considered “terrorism” a low priority over lowering taxes to the wealthy, and blaming Clinton for everything they couldn’t do.

Note this: On September 10th, Ashcroft signed an order cutting funding for FBI terrorist investigations to virtually ZERO!

From December of 2000, the Bush team is DOCUMENTED (by Bob Woodward, no less) of planning to find a way to invade IRAQ, not Afghanistan, IRAQ! (Jeez, how thick are you?)  9/11 pointed at Afghanistan, where the terrorists Bush hadn’t cared about were located.

Your head is so plugged up with this shit that it had to be the CIA and Mossad you refuse to see fundamental problems that make the idea absurd.

Hell, next you’ll claim aliens from outer space did it in league with the Bush admin.

On similar evidence Jews were murdered in the Middle Ages for “obviously” spreading plague.  Why? Jews’ religious standards of cleanliness were so much greater than the filthy Europeans (many never bathed in their life) that they didn’t convey infection as easily and were able to avoid the fleas better.  But that didn’t matter. Jews weren’t dying as fast as Christians of plague so they MUST be guilty!

Somebody ALWAYS has a “good reason” to kill Jews.  bin Laden was just another in a long line of murderers.  But he was no bigot: He hated ALL non-Muslims and non-compliant (with his Taliban-like ideas) fellow Muslims equally and was happy to kill them all.

I never understand the ultra-religious thinking they can built a tower to heaven using dead bodies as building blocks.  Must be some strange god they believe in!

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By diamond, May 4, 2011 at 10:11 pm Link to this comment

“Back to the forum:  Progresive Cenk Uygur has many good arguments tonight.  Just thought I’d let you know, becawz ahs cares about youse. 5 Yups!  Ahs got the bestest venom to spew back out to those who don’t even rate pigs to crap on! Ain’t it the trooth?  The trooth hurts don’t it?”

Christ. You’re not only a moron, you’re an embarrassing moron. You don’t have the bestest venom: that’s just your fantasy. The truth is you couldn’t win a debate with a fifth grade school child because you talk non stop garbage and constantly lie about everything.

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By Go Right Young Man, May 4, 2011 at 10:07 pm Link to this comment

Torturous Interrogations, GITMO, Rendition, DOD Black Sites, Indefinite Detention, Domestic Electronic Surveillance, Military Commissions and Summary Executions. - All the things that “created” a dangerous Constitutional Crises just a few short years ago!  All of the above are, on this very day, unquestionable signs of a Neo-Con cabal in the White House.

Not only does President Obama force most here to look inward and admit they were completely wrong about what a New Conservative is, this bin Laden killing, coupled with the rampant “Truther” movement on clear display here, proves beyond all doubt that the Left too has more than its share of Moon Bats and Mad Hatters.

-

Interesting thing though.  Next week these pages will be FULL of those claiming only the Right side of the isle can become so unhinged.

The Birther movement is harmless by comparison.

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By diamond, May 4, 2011 at 9:18 pm Link to this comment

“If the US Government set up 9/11 as an excuse to go after Saddam Hussein in Iraq, why did every piece of available evidence they supposedly “produced” point to Al Qaeda and Afghanistan, both mortal enemies of Saddam Hussein?”

Now you’re being devious ITW. Surely you remember how they tried to say that Saddam and bin Laden were best friends? In spite of the fact that Saddam Hussein hated Islamists with a deadly hatred and kept his foot firmly on their throats. There was no link between Iraq and bin Laden and there was no link between Iraq and 9/11. There were no Afghan citizens listed on that bullshit list of hijackers they put out -  most of them were supposedly Saudis, as was bin Laden. But surely if that was the case, why didn’t they invade Saudi? Well, they didn’t need to invade Saudi because the royal family and the bin Ladens were genuinely best friends and business partners with the entire Bush family. It would have served no purpose at all. And then when their manufactured narrative on links between bin Laden and Hussein unraveled in their hands, on October 12, 2001 they sent anthrax through the US mail to senators Leahy and Daschle and various media outlets they were pissed off with. And then they unleashed their tame dogs in the media to claim that the anthrax showed evidence of bentonite and this meant it came from Iraq. Of course it didn’t, as was later proven, it came, in fact, from a CIA bio-warfare lab where it had been developed as a weaponized strain of anthrax in a covert and unlawful weapons program. All of this was described in detail in an article by Christopher Ketchum’s in the ‘American Conservative’. Then they tried to frame Stephen Hatfill for the anthrax letters, but being a lawyer he took them to court and beat them at their own game. He was found ‘not guilty’ and was paid damages of $6 million. Bruce Ivins wasn’t so lucky, they destroyed his life and his sanity and he (so THEY say) killed himself. Ivins was the leader of the team that investigated the anthrax in the envelopes. They found that it was startlingly pure weapons grade anthrax, the like of which they’d never seen before. Ivins was an obvious target: to pay him back for telling the truth, to shut him up and because they needed a patsy.

Why make Afghanistan the target? Because the Taliban burned the poppy fields and put a crimp in the CIA’s drug trade, which they had been happily running with their friends in the Northern Alliance and are still running with them again up to the present day. Up to 90% of the heroin that comes into America comes from Afghanistan. And it’s common knowledge in Afghanistan that tribal chieftains are paid to let the heroin pass through their territory on its way to Turkey where the Turkish mafia families take charge of it and smuggle it through Iran to the west. Hamid Karzai’s brother, Walid, is one of the biggest drug lords in Afghanistan and also a CIA asset and Karzai is a former executive of the oil company Unocal. He was put in place because they want to build that oil and gas pipeline to Karachi and it helps to have a team player running the country. I don’t know what it will take to make the scales fall from your eyes. I think your main concern re 9/11 is that sooner or later the finger will also point at your beloved Israel. As, of course, it will if the truth ever gets told.

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By THX 1133 is not in the movie..., May 4, 2011 at 8:54 pm Link to this comment

Hedges lost me a bit on the figurehead analogy of Bin
Laden and Hitler. Is this supposed to lessen his (Bin
Laden’s) culpability in the violence done in his name?
Capture would have been good; but we blew that
opportunity, sad…

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By Robert, May 4, 2011 at 6:10 pm Link to this comment

The Agendas Behind the Bin Laden News Event

By Paul Craig Roberts

“May 04, 2011 “Information Clearing House”—The US government’s bin Laden story was so poorly crafted that it did not last 48 hours before being fundamentally altered. Indeed, the new story put out on Tuesday by White House press secretary Jay Carney bears little resemblance to the original Sunday evening story. The fierce firefight did not occur. Osama bin Laden did not hide behind a woman. Indeed, bin Laden, Carney said, “was not armed.”

The firefight story was instantly suspicious as not a single SEAL got a scratch, despite being up against al Qaeda, described by former Pentagon chief Donald Rumsfeld as ‘the most dangerous, best-trained, vicious killers on the face of the earth.” http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=43817

Every original story detail has been changed. It wasn’t bin Laden’s wife who was murdered by the Navy SEALs , but the wife of an aide. It wasn’t bin Laden’s son, Khalid, who was murdered by the Navy SEALs, but son Hamza.

Carney blamed the changed story on “the fog of war.” But there was no firefight, so where did the “fog of war” come from?

The White House has also had to abandon the story that President Obama and his national security team watched tensely as events unfolded in real time (despite the White House having released photos of the team watching tensely), with the operation conveyed into the White House by cameras on the SEALs helmets. If Obama
was watching the event as it happened, he would have noticed, one would hope, that there was no firefight and, thus, would not have told the public that bin Laden was killed in a firefight. Another reason the story had to be abandoned is that if the event was captured on video, every news service in the world would be asking for the video, but if the event was orchestrated theater, there would be no video.

No explanation has been provided for why an unarmed bin Laden, in the absence of a firefight, was murdered by the SEALs with a shot to the head. For those who believe the government’s story that “we got bin Laden,” the operation can only appear as the most botched operation in history. What kind of incompetence does it require to senselessly and needlessly kill the most valuable intelligence asset on the planet?

~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for the rest:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28029.htm

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By Inherit The Wind, May 4, 2011 at 5:10 pm Link to this comment

I do not see him as some sort of patsy, much less suggest that he had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.  Rather, I believe that he WAS involved in the attacks - only NOT in the ways that we have been told.

I believe there was a “deal” between Bush/Cheney et al and OBL; i.e., that OBL assisted by helping to provide personnel (some of whom were already former CIA assets like himself), and by allowing them to “blame” him for the attacks.

This would explain why (i) despite all the “dead or alive” rhetoric, Bush/Cheney somehow could not “find” him (assuming he was even alive after December 2001), and (ii) there have been no other such attacks since 9/11 (the shoe bomber, underwear bomber and Times Square bomber notwithstanding).

Ultimately, though, if OBL was, in fact, dead by December 2001, it makes sense that Bush/Cheney would NOT reveal that information, since their “global war on terror” largely depended (certainly initially, and then at very least tangentially) on OBL being alive.

As for Obama - who would have had to have known that OBL was already dead (and his body likely “on ice”) by the time he took office - it would make equal sense that HE did not reveal that information immediately, rather waiting until a particularly opportune moment to do so.  And he certainly picked a nationally AND globally opportune moment.
*****************

Talk about pulling crap out of your ass!

Not ONE of you nuts has ever been able to answer the simplest question: 

If the US Government set up 9/11 as an excuse to go after Saddam Hussein in Iraq, why did every piece of available evidence they supposedly “produced” point to Al Qaeda and Afghanistan, both mortal enemies of Saddam Hussein?

I mean, Rummy even TOLD us Iraq was preferred because it had better targets!

So why point it at Afghanistan? 

It makes no fuckin’ sense at all, yet you idiots choose to believe.

Yes, I said “idiots” because only an idiot denies fundamental basic logic.

WHY MAKE AFGHANISTAN THE TARGET?  Prior to 9/11 we hadn’t given a shit about Afghanistan since the Soviets left.

WHY MAKE AFGHANISTAN THE TARGET?  They supposedly gen’d up all this brilliant phony evidence against Afghanistan but couldn’t even gen up phony evidence that Saddam Hussein was trying to build an atomic weapon.  They couldn’t gen up phony evidence that he had WMDs.  Yet this gang that couldn’t shoot straight gen’d up evidence against Al Qaeda and Afghanistan that STILL holds up today.

WHY MAKE AFGHANISTAN THE TARGET?

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By Lew Ciefer, May 4, 2011 at 5:02 pm Link to this comment

@ By Maani, May 3 at 8:32 pm
That didn’t take long!  The “official story” starts to unravel in less than 24 hours!

The Mocha Savior is a doubleplusgood duckspeaker!

“‘There is a word in Newspeak,’ said Syme, ‘I don’t know whether you know it: DUCKSPEAK, to quack like a duck. It is one of those interesting words that have two contradictory meanings. Applied to an opponent, it is abuse; applied to someone you agree with, it is praise.”

...The speech had been proceeding for perhaps twenty minutes when a messenger hurried on to the platform and a scrap of paper was slipped into the speaker’s hand. He unrolled and read it without pausing in his speech. Nothing altered in his voice or manner, or in the content of what he was saying, but suddenly the names were different. Without words said, a wave of understanding rippled through the crowd. Oceania was at war with Eastasia! The next moment there was a tremendous commotion. The banners and posters with which the square was decorated were all wrong! Quite half of them had the wrong faces on them. It was sabotage! The agents of Goldstein had been at work!

Ultimately it was hoped to make articulate speech issue from the larynx without involving the higher brain centres at all. This aim was frankly admitted in the Newspeak word DUCKSPEAK, meaning ‘to quack like a duck’. Like various other words in the B vocabulary, DUCKSPEAK was ambivalent in meaning. Provided that the opinions which were quacked out were orthodox ones, it implied nothing but praise, and when ‘The Times’ referred to one of the orators of the Party as a DOUBLEPLUSGOOD DUCKSPEAKER it was paying a warm and valued compliment. –George Orwell, “1984”

Stop resisting; win the victory over yourself ... LOVE BIG BROTHER!

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By Go Right Young Man, May 4, 2011 at 5:01 pm Link to this comment

Maani, - “I believe there was a “deal” between Bush/Cheney et al and OBL”

-

I believe it’s a mistake to dismiss Elvis.  I believe there’s a much stronger case to be made of a deal between Bush/FrankenChenny and Elvis involvement with the 9.11 horror.

I once saw Elvis with Ayman Muhammad Rabaie Zawahiri at a kewpee in Lima Ohio.  Zawahiri seemed particularly smitten with the hand dipped malted.  I know I speak for others when I say that I was horrified by the significance.

-

We’ll never see photographs or video of Bin Laden’s body dumped in the ocean.  The body was that of a recently assassinated Allen Durkee.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 4, 2011 at 5:00 pm Link to this comment


BTW…there are religion fanatics, the “Twisted kind”,in Christianity, Judaism, Islam and for that matter…in every religion/belief.

***************

Gee Robert! An original thought from you that isn’t a quote and actual makes perfect sense.  I’m delighted.

Of course, I posited that IDENTICAL premise at least a hundred times here at Truthdig, so naturally I agree with you.

(Then you had to go post that crap about OBL dying in 9/11, breaking the spell).

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By reynolds, May 4, 2011 at 4:59 pm Link to this comment

“Just thought I’d let you know, becawz ahs cares about
youse.” it’s cocktail time in western pennsylvania.

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By Shenonymous, May 4, 2011 at 4:48 pm Link to this comment

Yadda! reynolds, m’thinks you need a turban.  I can see you are
revving up to babble more.  LOL What power I have!

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By Arabian Sinbad, May 4, 2011 at 4:44 pm Link to this comment

In addition to the points I raised in a previous comment to prove that this so-called Bin Laden killing was a bad script from a bad Hollywood movie, let me add the following:

1. One clear picture from the compound shows the wreckage of a destroyed helicopter. Obama in his announcement of this fake operation mentioned that “there was no loss to our assets.” Unless a destroyed helicopter is not an asset, Obama made a very very obvious lie!

2. Then the question rises about the fate of those who were aboard this helicopter. The wreckage shown in the released picture is terrible and only a stupid would believe that those on board escaped unharmed!

3. Then there is the issue of releasing the picture of dead Osama, which Obama is resisting to do. In my own thinking, either such picture does not exist, or they are buying time to enhance a doctored picture that can be released later on.

4. Furthermore, interviews with a large group of very westernized Pakistani college students from the neighborhood, where this supposed operation took place, show that everyone agreed that there was no way that Osama was living there, and therefore the whole thing was a lie as far as they were concerned. In their zeal to capitalize on this event to boost their netwoks’ ratings, I got the feeling that unwittingly the Western media will end proving the lies of Obama and gang!

I am praying! And I hope that my prayers will not be taken that I am a supporter of so-called “terrorism” because I dare to question the official narrative of the political-military establishment that has been practicing the worst forms of terrorism in many parts of the world!

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