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Chris Hedges Speaks on Osama bin Laden’s Death

Posted on May 1, 2011
AP / Pablo Martinez Monsivais

Chris Hedges, speaking at a Truthdig fundraising event in Los Angeles on Sunday evening, made these remarks about Osama bin Laden’s death.

Click to listen to the audio, or read the transcript below:

I know that because of this announcement, that reportedly Osama bin Laden was killed, Bob [Truthdig Editor Robert Scheer] wanted me to say a few words about it … about al-Qaida. I spent a year of my life covering al-Qaida for The New York Times. It was the work in which I, and other investigative reporters, won the Pulitzer Prize. And I spent seven years of my life in the Middle East. I was the Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times. I’m an Arabic speaker. And when someone came over and told ... me the news, my stomach sank. I’m not in any way naive about what al-Qaida is. It’s an organization that terrifies me. I know it intimately.

But I’m also intimately familiar with the collective humiliation that we have imposed on the Muslim world. The expansion of military occupation that took place throughout, in particular the Arab world, following 9/11—and that this presence of American imperial bases, dotted, not just in Iraq and Afghanistan, but in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Doha—is one that has done more to engender hatred and acts of terror than anything ever orchestrated by Osama bin Laden.

And the killing of bin Laden, who has absolutely no operational role in al-Qaida—that’s clear—he’s kind of a spiritual mentor, a kind of guide … he functions in many of the ways that Hitler functioned for the Nazi Party. We were just talking with Warren [Beatty] about [Ian] Kershaw’s great biography of Hitler, which I read a few months ago, where you hold up a particular ideological ideal and strive for it. That was bin Laden’s role. But all actual acts of terror, which he may have signed off on, he no way planned.


Square, Site wide
I think that one of the most interesting aspects of the whole rise of al-Qaida is that when Saddam Hussein … I covered the first Gulf War, went into Kuwait with the 1st Battalion, 1st Marines, was in Basra during the Shiite uprising until I was captured and taken prisoner by the Iraqi Republican Guard. I like to say I was embedded with the Iraqi Republican Guard. Within that initial assault and occupation of Kuwait, bin Laden appealed to the Saudi government to come back and help organize the defense of his country. And he was turned down. And American troops came in and implanted themselves on Muslim soil.

When I was in New York, as some of you were, on 9/11, I was in Times Square when the second plane hit. I walked into The New York Times, I stuffed notebooks in my pocket and walked down the West Side Highway and was at Ground Zero four hours later. I was there when Building 7 collapsed. And I watched as a nation drank deep from that very dark elixir of American nationalism … the flip side of nationalism is always racism, it’s about self-exaltation and the denigration of the other.

And it’s about forgetting that terrorism is a tactic. You can’t make war on terror. Terrorism has been with us since Sallust wrote about it in the Jugurthine wars. And the only way to successfully fight terrorist groups is to isolate [them], isolate those groups, within their own societies. And I was in the immediate days after 9/11 assigned to go out to Jersey City and the places where the hijackers had lived and begin to piece together their lives. I was then very soon transferred to Paris, where I covered all of al-Qaida’s operations in the Middle East and Europe.

So I was in the Middle East in the days after 9/11. And we had garnered the empathy of not only most of the world, but the Muslim world who were appalled at what had been done in the name of their religion. And we had major religious figures like Sheikh Tantawi, the head of al-Azhar—who died recently—who after the attacks of 9/11 not only denounced them as a crime against humanity, which they were, but denounced Osama bin Laden as a fraud … someone who had no right to issue fatwas or religious edicts, no religious legitimacy, no religious training. And the tragedy was that if we had the courage to be vulnerable, if we had built on that empathy, we would be far safer and more secure today than we are.

We responded exactly as these terrorist organizations wanted us to respond. They wanted us to speak the language of violence. What were the explosions that hit the World Trade Center, huge explosions and death above a city skyline? It was straight out of Hollywood. When Robert McNamara in 1965 began the massive bombing campaign of North Vietnam, he did it because he said he wanted to “send a message” to the North Vietnamese—a message that left hundreds of thousands of civilians dead.

These groups learned to speak the language we taught them. And our response was to speak in kind. The language of violence, the language of occupation—the occupation of the Middle East, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan—has been the best recruiting tool al-Qaida has been handed. If it is correct that Osama bin Laden is dead, then it will spiral upwards with acts of suicidal vengeance. And I expect most probably on American soil. The tragedy of the Middle East is one where we proved incapable of communicating in any other language than the brute and brutal force of empire.

And empire finally, as Thucydides understood, is a disease. As Thucydides wrote, the tyranny that the Athenian empire imposed on others it finally imposed on itself. The disease of empire, according to Thucydides, would finally kill Athenian democracy. And the disease of empire, the disease of nationalism … these of course are mirrored in the anarchic violence of these groups, but one that locks us in a kind of frightening death spiral. So while I certainly fear al-Qaida, I know its intentions. I know how it works. I spent months of my life reconstructing every step Mohamed Atta took. While I don’t in any way minimize their danger, I despair. I despair that we as a country, as Nietzsche understood, have become the monster that we are attempting to fight.

Thank you.

Wages of Rebellion: The Moral Imperative of Revolt, By Chris Hedges, Truthdig Columnist and Winner of the Pulitzer Prize -- Get Your Autographed Copy Today Also Available! Truthdig Exclusive DVD of Chris Hedges' Wages of Rebellion Lecture The World As It Is: 
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By reynolds, May 4, 2011 at 4:41 pm Link to this comment

i mean; good morning! chickens, eggs, lithium,
halperidol, gestalt, yadda…..

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By reynolds, May 4, 2011 at 4:39 pm Link to this comment

...she speaks two or three languages, unfortunately at
the same time. what the hell, you can both gas on at
length without the bother of listening to one another.

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Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 4, 2011 at 4:35 pm Link to this comment

Obama cannot even take a breath before he is jumped on for
everything and anything by the Hard Left or Fanatical Right.  The
stories of the assassination of Bin Laden are so numerous and none
in agreement or even close to saying the same thing that the “real”
story will never be known.  Little bits leaked out by the players and
their staff has everyone confused as hell and they are babbling all
over the place.  It is really very clever of Obama to do that.  Catching
the truth is like trying to catch a greased pig.  What fools ye mortals

Obama is expected to solve the Afghanistanian problem, the winding
down Iraqi problem, the Egyptian problem, the Libyan problem, the
Palestinian problem, the Israeli problem, the Iranian problem, let’s see,
did we miss any?  Oh yeah, now the Pakistani problem, Syria, Yemen,
and et al.  Well Tunisia didn’t need him!  Horrrayyyy!  And that is just
the middle east!  But he did show he could kick ass! 

He is not going to provide the rabble with any graphic images of the
dead Osama, even though Obama says there is no doubt that Bin Laden
was killed.  And he doesn’t care whether you believe him or not.  What
the real scenario was we will never know for sure, none of it.  Those
who harbor doubts of every stripe, will simply just…have…to…lump…it. 

It is patently absurd to say there can’t be Islamic terrorists any more
than Christian terrorists, and etc.  M’thinks reading the literature by
Karen Armstrong and others would show there is all the reason in the
world to speak of Islamic terrorists.  Christian terrorists have not killed
masses of people in hundreds of years.  A white hood will now and
then kill one or two, but not hordes of people.  Even so, it all comes
with qualification.  As a matter of fact, while all Muslims are Islamists,
not all Muslims are terrorists, most Muslims are not terrorists, most
Muslims are decent people and just want to live a decent life, ergo, the
upheaval in the Middle East.  So zealots from the Hard Left and the
Fanatical Right ought to get their facts straight.  But they can’t, so its a
whacko state of affairs with their bitter pronouncements.  Sail on fools,
sail on.

Hahahahaha reynolds, you are sooo funny.  But you really ought to
get a life.  It is sad that all you live for is to try to flame Shenonymous,
at least that is the way it looks, and appearances are everything.  You
really aren’t too bright if you haven’t noticed that you don’t do a very
good job.

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By reynolds, May 4, 2011 at 4:20 pm Link to this comment

(eastern europe, western pennsylvania, same thing…)
chavizta; good morning! you make a powerful argument re
the high percentage of whack jobs run amok all up in
are you single, looking to date? i know of a woman who
is no doubt single and shares your insights regarding
human nature, rational thought, scientific theories,
and what i’m guessing is a fondness for camouflage
gear. i’m thinking the two of you would hit it off.

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By Shenonymous, May 4, 2011 at 4:10 pm Link to this comment

Hello diamond.  You just ain’t got no class.  You were expected
though, and your ferociously macho comments!  That hole you
crawled out of is getting cold so go slither back into it.  How many
of you are there now?  ardee, reynolds, RayLan, diamond.  Hmmm
better reload my pistolas.  Four machismos makes a gangbanging. 
You all are gutless unless you are taking poopy potshots at the
saucebox Shenonymous from the safe shroud of a blog. Then you
know what swells up.  LOL It’s amazing how you can stand your
own smell! 

diamond, please don’t bore this forum saying you care about the
truth!  All you and your sour cadre ever offer is trooth!  You don’t
know anything emphatically. Don’t you know you always get back
what you give.  Least from this witchypoo dame.

Back to the forum:  Progresive Cenk Uygur has many good arguments
tonight.  Just thought I’d let you know, becawz ahs cares about youse. 
5 Yups!  Ahs got the bestest venom to spew back out to those who
don’t even rate pigs to crap on! Ain’t it the trooth?  The trooth hurts
don’t it?

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By reynolds, May 4, 2011 at 4:08 pm Link to this comment

i’m thinking estonia or lithuania.

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ChaviztaKing's avatar

By ChaviztaKing, May 4, 2011 at 4:07 pm Link to this comment

9-11 WAS DONE BY ISRAELI TERRORISTS !!  Go to  The USA is doomed, I mean really doomed, because most americans are mind-controlled zombies, everywhere you go in America, in all sectors of the country.  In its upper classes, in the middle class and in the lower class people are pieces of dumb shit, animals, pigs.  Only a few in America, a minority, are mentally stable, rational individuals with common sense.  Like Alex Jones, Jeff Rense, Noam Chomsky, Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, Chris Hedges (Who is depressed by the way), Dennis Kucinich, Ron Paul, Bob Avakian, Larry Holmes from The Workers World Party, Cindy Sheehan, Ray Mcgovern, Amy Goodman, Michael Parenti, Stewart Alexander, James Petras, Sean Penn, Michael More.  And all the intellectuals, writters, thinkers of the conspiracy theory movements, progressive liberal movements, libertarians, socialist parties, and anarchists.  And the loyal readers of progressive, socialists and leftist news websites.  But like I said we are only a minority. The majority of Americans are mind-controlled zombies.

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By reynolds, May 4, 2011 at 3:46 pm Link to this comment

good morning! time to mark as offensive every comment
to which we take exception and/or read.

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By diamond, May 4, 2011 at 3:34 pm Link to this comment

“Good morning!  Now who else says that?  Nobody!”

No one else needs to. Those who care about truth and justice always have a good morning. You most emphatically do not care about them and display an underlying viciousness in your nature as well as intolerance towards those who don’t accept your views. It comes out when you say certain people don’t ‘deserve a pig to crap on’. Your mind is a sewer and that’s why every time you open your mouth, crap comes out.

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By Shenonymous, May 4, 2011 at 2:55 pm Link to this comment

reynolds is a liar and has not provided any post I made that was
not in response to a vicious attack on me first. Because of deficient
thinking, he cannot fathom there is a female who can out do the
doo doo that is dropped on her. You, reynolds, are not worthy of a
pig to crap on.  You are addicted to hating me so will say anything
that pumps up your manhood.  But in your perversion you would
actually do me bodily harm.  You are the classic degenreate sicko. 
Impotent to speak like a man you can only speak thoughts that come
from a mutilated monstrous brain.  Be careful what you say reynolds,
as there is a comment policy on TD. 

Back to the article but not more sanity:  Sanford speaks with the most
lucid mind.  Hello back Artful Dodger, Maddow only showed with a
dozen or more video clips the not-one-alike theories of what
happened.  To quote Leefeller: “For every point there is a counterpoint,
so believe what you want.”  Maddow’s point exactly.  We do not have
the truth, so it is all speculation.  Yours included.  My point was that it
is incoherent to take for granted oneself has insight when no facts are
had.  And you are right about scum, but it is also said sh*t always rises
to the top.  Does that include al Quaeda?

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By ChaviztaKing, May 4, 2011 at 1:48 pm Link to this comment

Bin Laden died in 2001.  And the killing of Bin Laden by US specialized troops was a stunt and another of the bullshits of the bullshitting US government.  This is just another of the bullshits and conspiracies of the US government like the 911, Iraq weapons of mass destruction, gulf of Tonka, Cuban missile crisis and many more in the past and the present and will keep coming in the future too. Osama vs. the big Giant USA , the fiction can’t even fit into the proverb of David vs. Goliaths it was actually nothing vs. Goliath. They have juiced out from this Osama story for nearly whole decade and finally tried to bury it into the deep sea. It’s like the Harry Potter story writer finally decided to kill its fictional character or even the whole episode.

The main stream news media from Europe to other part of Atlantic got into action like a knitted machine with one voice propagating and confirming the news, there is no doubt shown again by the chair leader media, they again believed the official version as they believed as a whole when this whole fictional story told on 911, about the nineteen box cutters. No one resigned for any human error which would have prevented them from this catastrophe from the very beginning. Oh this was too sudden for them to know about any plot by UBL, there was nothing could be done to prevent it on the first place accept the whole mighty commanders of this country running like a sheep and hiding inside the Bunkers. The main stream controlled media made Islam its enemy, its ideology too dangerous for western Democracy, its Prophets which in fact are all the biblical prophet including Mohammad become their arch enemies, their teaching against money changers were too harsh on the banking establishment.

They crucified Jesus and spared the thief because he was against the money changers, he was also pro world supporting poor and helpless and not just supporting one race. They failed and tried enough to crucify Mohammad too, they brought the whole Arab world during that time united against him, they were not succeeded at that time of history, but then they tried to kill his legacy several time in history and one of the biggest attempt was made done on 911, when they accused his teaching and philosophy to be behind this whole thing. They think that people are fools, stupid, and like a sheep that whatever they are going to feed them intellectually through their big mouth media they will accept it. Their hands are stained with the blood of millions of people of Iraq and Afghanistan, Vietnam and in Philistines. They created their own character like Saddam, UBL, Mubarak and many more characters in history. They make them hero as long they are useful and kill them as long they can’t sell the story anymore.

How many bankers went to Jail accept Bernie Madoff, too big to jail or fail, how many resigned on the failure of security in 911? Big Zero.

Can UBl death can be used to give life to the ailing economy of US, can his death give them relive from their humongous debt Burdon, can his death can quell the unrest in the streets of Islamic world not to ask the puppet dictators to leave and stop their demand to give up their human right and dignity.

This is time to give Noble Price to the story writer of UBL, who created this humongous giant who can’t being stopped by the biggest military power of the human history, with trillions of dollars, with best military hardware, they can’t capture or kill this giant.

But finally they buried him in deep ocean, the story was becoming a flop at the box office of the world because nobody was buying it anymore or they wear trying juice it of the last drop of UBL to take the last breath at setting sun of US empire. Lets see what they will bring as a next character, they have plenty of writer in the Zionist, Mosad and CIA who will not disappoint you bringing the next character.


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By ChaviztaKing, May 4, 2011 at 1:32 pm Link to this comment

USA has been descending, at least we were ruled by corrupt americans, now we are ruled by corrupt citizens from Kenya.  What a hell of illegalism the USA has become


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By ChaviztaKing, May 4, 2011 at 1:26 pm Link to this comment

By Inherit The Wind, May 4 at 3:51 am Link to this comment



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By drbhelthi, May 4, 2011 at 12:53 pm Link to this comment

A general message to the couple of bloggers who have attempted to cast me in the role of a supporter of Osama bin Laden.

I sincerely regret that your reading comprehension skills are below the fourth grade level.  I suggest that your intelligence might be improved by the application of a C.E.S., thirty minutes daily, for two months. If your friends and family members notice an improvement in your logic ability, continue it indefinitely.  If not, discontinue it.

If you are shills for the recent Obama/Schwarzeneger Hollywood cast, involved in the murder of a helpless, Pakistani family by USGOV mercenaries, attempting to create support for the re-election campaign of “B.H.Obama,” a suggestion.  If you use the following link, you will find the accurate reason underlying the inability of “B. H. Obama” to produce a genuine, non-falsified, birth certificate.

I do NOT fault this person for being “illegitimately born”, nor the teenage promiscuity of his mother, nor his improper rearing by his CIA-operative grandparents and mother.  I do fault him for defrauding Americans and the world as being “American born.” I also fault him for advancing the goals of the WWII NAZIs, who moved their HQ from Berlin to D.C., Huntsville, and Ft. Bliss, via Operation Paper Clip, 1945-1952.  I also fault him for deceiving Americans and the world about his belief system, which is neither Christian nor Moslem.

His pattern of behavior demonstrates an addiction to deceit and power, and the lust for acceptance into the circle of the super-rich.  Predictably, he will continue his pattern of deceit and destruction, resulting in the collapse of the U.S.A., while severely damaging the western world.

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By Leefeller, May 4, 2011 at 12:45 pm Link to this comment

Mannies comments makes about as much sense as anyone else’s out there.  I can enhance the speculations a bit, a little known unfact is the CIA owned the house in Pakistan where Osama ben Ladies man lived,... Evidently Osama ben ladies man passed away while checking out the specia edition Burka Issue of Playboy, ...they said they herd him counting, so they suspect he was fantasizing about 72 versions when all of a sudden he fell over and croaked.

So they (it is always they) made the phony OpOP for the show of it and the timing for May Day was a stroke of something other than genius. (check out my pinata theory).

The whole thing could have been as Mannie states. So from the very beginning.  President Obama and the inner circle of jerks, his very close special advisers were not really watching a seal Op operation,... but instead watching the adult version of Sponge Bob Square sans pants.

On ice seems a stretch Mannie,...I really have to say, if Osma ben ladies man had been dead for some time now,...that would mean they would have been kicking Osama’s head around with Ted Williams at the Happy Destiny Republican CryoVault facility in Arizona.

As to who really they buried at sea, it would have been a good bit of news if it was Chaney, ...but that would have required the sea anchor from the ‘Aircraft Carrier Ronald Reagan’ in order to sink his bloated ego…. Lets just say they dumped an unknown person for now, it will be up the rest of the conspiring folks to find out who it really was! (I would be happy if it had been Ronald McDonald)

Anyway, I don’t buy that it was really Osama they buried at sea, because that would have required burying him with his Iron lung and his dial is machine , because he never left how with out it!

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By ControlledDemolition, May 4, 2011 at 12:17 pm Link to this comment

@lucas, May 3 at 7:35 am (Unregistered commenter)

How did WTC # 7 collapse?

The absurd official narrative?  Fire on a few floors caused the entire 47-story steel structure to weaken to the point that gravity could cause a 6.5-sec collapse (a symmetrical collapse going through the path of MOST resistance, when fire cannot cause that type of damage to steel and has NEVER brought down steel-framers before ... uh, except for the Twin Towers.)

Quick answer.  Check out NIST report and criticisms thereof.  Google “Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth” etc.

Sure looks like a controlled demolition ...

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By ControlledDemolition, May 4, 2011 at 11:55 am Link to this comment

This whole Osama death scenario reeks of the Jessica what’s-her-name story that was simply a PR production.

Despite all pundits pontificating in their expert tones of idiocy across our airwaves, it’s just PR, fabricated reality like the public myth of the causes of 911.  Somebody must have decided to play the “we got bin Laden” card in their game of political psy-ops.

Later. Peace out.

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By Maani, May 4, 2011 at 10:35 am Link to this comment

ITW, Leefeller:

Speaking only for myself (though I am guessing I speak for others as well), you proceed from false assumption re how I (and likely others) view OBL.

I do not see him as some sort of patsy, much less suggest that he had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.  Rather, I believe that he WAS involved in the attacks - only NOT in the ways that we have been told.

I believe there was a “deal” between Bush/Cheney et al and OBL; i.e., that OBL assisted by helping to provide personnel (some of whom were already former CIA assets like himself), and by allowing them to “blame” him for the attacks.

This would explain why (i) despite all the “dead or alive” rhetoric, Bush/Cheney somehow could not “find” him (assuming he was even alive after December 2001), and (ii) there have been no other such attacks since 9/11 (the shoe bomber, underwear bomber and Times Square bomber notwithstanding).

Ultimately, though, if OBL was, in fact, dead by December 2001, it makes sense that Bush/Cheney would NOT reveal that information, since their “global war on terror” largely depended (certainly initially, and then at very least tangentially) on OBL being alive.

As for Obama - who would have had to have known that OBL was already dead (and his body likely “on ice”) by the time he took office - it would make equal sense that HE did not reveal that information immediately, rather waiting until a particularly opportune moment to do so.  And he certainly picked a nationally AND globally opportune moment.


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By Divinepoet, May 4, 2011 at 10:15 am Link to this comment

Once Osama was a good friend of US government. We heard that he was(is)a business partner of Bush family, but not sure. US and Osama worked togather in Afganistan to drive away Russia from Afganistan. They completed the mission jointly. Why suddenly they became foe? What was the conflict? I am sure someone from `Truthdig,will drill out the truth.

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By Leefeller, May 4, 2011 at 10:13 am Link to this comment

The advent of the advantageous opportunists seems one thing I can agree with.  Half of what one hears from the MSM is erroneous made up and contrived, the other half is BS.

For every point their is a counter point, so believe what you want, one thing I see is the Republicans are screwing the unwashed masses with help from their friends the Tea Baggers and all financed by wealthy benefactors. Benefactors who seem to be on a roll, picking up momentum like a bowling ball flying down a steep grade, it may be practical to step aside until it hits bottom, which seems unlikely in this life time.

Expecting to be privy of all and everything the plutocrats work hard at keeping from being known, seems a tad on the naive side to me. Also the concept that they even care seems not even a zero equation in their grand scheme of things.

Yes sure, 911 was this it was that and in the end it could of been this and it could of been that! Same with the demise of Osma ben Laudan so now there is a demand to see the photos of the happenings and then what? More this and that?

Always something new to make up and fret about, guess constant fear just is not enough for some!

Far as I can tell is is all a diversion!

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By Wikileaks for Nobel, May 4, 2011 at 10:09 am Link to this comment

I think the precedent (which will now continue for all subsequent Presidents) of having someone—even an American citizen—marked to be “taken out” by this or that specialized military group without any judicial review, is very dangerous.  This is always a major feature of fascism:  Beloved Leader gives the order for the “hit,” and that’s the end to it. 

Ironically, this leads us one step closer to the kind of society favored by Osama Bin Laden.

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By reynolds, May 4, 2011 at 9:48 am Link to this comment

horrible death is horrible irrespective of the dead.
one cannot credibly denounce the perpetrator of
horrible death as deserving of horrible death without
they are as horrible.

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By Robert, May 4, 2011 at 9:08 am Link to this comment

Top Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 False Flag Attack

by Paul Joseph Watson

May 4, 2011

“Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations Steve R. Pieczenik says he is prepared to tell a federal grand jury the name of a top general who told him directly 9/11 was a false flag attack”

Top US government insider Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, a man who held numerous different influential positions under three different Presidents and still works with the Defense Department, shockingly told The Alex Jones Show yesterday that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001 and that he was prepared to testify in front of a grand jury how a top general told him directly that 9/11 was a false flag inside job.

Pieczenik cannot be dismissed as a “conspiracy theorist”. He served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations, Nixon, Ford and Carter, while also working under Reagan and Bush senior, and still works as a consultant for the Department of Defense. A former US Navy Captain, Pieczenik achieved two prestigious Harry C. Solomon Awards at the Harvard Medical School as he simultaneously completed a PhD at MIT.”

“Pieczenik also served as a senior policy planner under Secretaries Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance, George Schultz and James Baker and worked on George W. Bush’s election campaign against Al Gore. His record underscores the fact that he is one of the most deeply connected men in intelligence circles over the past three decades plus.

The character of Jack Ryan, who appears in many Tom Clancy novels and was also played by Harrison Ford in the popular 1992 movie Patriot Games, is also based on Steve Pieczenik.

Back in April 2002, over nine years ago, Pieczenik told the Alex Jones Show that Bin Laden had already been “dead for months,” and that the government was waiting for the most politically expedient time to roll out his corpse. Pieczenik would be in a position to know, having personally met Bin Laden and worked with him during the proxy war against the Soviets in Afghanistan back in the early 80?s.

Pieczenik said that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001, “Not because special forces had killed him, but because as a physician I had known that the CIA physicians had treated him and it was on the intelligence roster that he had marfan syndrome,” adding that the US government knew Bin Laden was dead before they invaded Afghanistan.

Marfan syndrome is a degenerative genetic disease for which there is no permanent cure. The illness severely shortens the life span of the sufferer..

“He died of marfan syndrome, Bush junior knew about it, the intelligence community knew about it,” said Pieczenik, noting how CIA physicians had visited Bin Laden in July 2001 at the American Hospital in Dubai.

“He was already very sick from marfan syndrome and he was already dying, so nobody had to kill him,” added Pieczenik, stating that Bin Laden died shortly after 9/11 in his Tora Bora cave complex.

“Did the intelligence community or the CIA doctor up this situation, the answer is yes, categorically yes,” said Pieczenik, referring to Sunday’s claim that Bin Laden was killed at his compound in Pakistan, adding, “This whole scenario where you see a bunch of people sitting there looking at a screen and they look as if they’re intense, that’s nonsense,” referring to the images released by the White House which claim to show Biden, Obama and Hillary Clinton watching the operation to kill Bin Laden live on a television screen.

“It’s a total make-up, make believe, we’re in an American theater of the absurd….why are we doing this again….nine years ago this man was already dead….why does the government repeatedly have to lie to the American people,”asked Pieczenik.”

Click on link for details:

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By Artful Dodger, May 4, 2011 at 8:29 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hello Shenonymous,

I find Maddow as credible as all those Neocons, who defended GW Bush at every turn. I think a person would have to be very naive not to speculate on whether or not there was some sort conspiracy connected with our ever secretive government’s machinations. Things happen with such fated convenience to them. I remember how the OBL scarecrow was used in 2004 turn the vote toward GW, when the bearded one would parrot Kerry’s arguments. Now we have the birth certificate cock up book-ended with OBL being buried at sea to commune with the fishies. This must be some sort of send up of Mario Puzo. The political parties may change, but scum always rises to the top.

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By Robert, May 4, 2011 at 8:26 am Link to this comment

By Inherit The Wind, May 4 at 3:51 am

I’m guessing that Robert and ChavistaKing and DRbhelthi and a few others see OBL as nothing but a totally innocent victim and that his stated desires to purge the world of all but HIS twisted brand of Islam was a “good thing”.


No need for the “guessing” from ITW:

If OBL is/was responsible for 9/11, he deserves to die…a horrific death. All truthful/real evidence pointing to OBL regarding 9/11 should be made available for all to see. Evidence regarding 9/11 should NOT be hidden from the American people & the rest of the world.

BTW…there are religion fanatics, the “Twisted kind”,in Christianity, Judaism, Islam and for that matter…in every religion/belief.

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By Leefeller, May 4, 2011 at 8:21 am Link to this comment

Many posters here make Osama bin Laden, sound like Robin Hood without the tights. Well it sounds to me like this Robin Hood had a silver spoon up his arse and used it to kill people instead of helping them?

After all Osama bin Laden, could have matched the Koch brothers and bought politicians to promote his agenda, maybe Osama bin Laden, was not so smart after all?

Only fitting, if the last thing to go through Osama bin Laden’s head should have been a silver bullet!

Alan MacDonald scratches his head wondering why the media is focused on “Why Pakistan”? Now I am no expert, but I believe
it may have had something to do with the fact, Osama bin Laden was in Pakistan?  For the Media, Donald Trump was becoming quite long of tooth?

Now May Day may become a real holiday and we can all dance around a pole with Osama bin Laden’s head mounted on it;  Osama bin Laden in effigy of course. It could be a way of bonding for Republicans instead of airport restrooms. The Osama bin Laden head could also be used as a pinata for inclusion of our illegal alien friends. Everyone can come to the festivities.
It will be a grand time! Dancing around the “bin Laden Pole” and then the kiddies can bash the pinata at the end the day for the prizes.  Hell, who knows,... pinatas may become the new Google?

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By Alan MacDonald, May 4, 2011 at 7:21 am Link to this comment

The designs and uses of Empire’s assassinations are as old, varied, deceitful, “Illusionary” (as Chris might say), and mysterious as Empire itself—- and so is this latest one.

Boy oh boy, it didn’t take long to answer the question the media has been asking since OBL was killed in Pakistan, namely; Why now and in Pakistan??

The seminal question of not the how, but the WHY of the successful USA assassination of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan—- embarrassingly close to their West Point equivalent—- was a big part of the US corporatist media’s attention, focus, and speculative excitement about the killing of OBL.

But the bigger WHY question is why the media is focusing (and shaping) the attention of average Americans on this WHY of WHY now, and more pivotally—- WHY Pakistan.

Well, it didn’t take long to parse and understand this seminal question!

The WHY NOW part of the question is tied directly to Thomas Barnett’s 2004 Naval War College book (and plan), “The Pentagon’s New Map”, which book clearly lays out the strategy for the disguised global Empire, which has taken over and is now posing as our former country, to also TAKE-OVER the “Gap” countries along a 5000 mile swath from Mauritania to the very boarders of India and China—- and for that disguised global Empire to have the cover-story of needing to use its “Leviathan” military force (with “whatever means necessary”) to guilefully con the American people into accepting (and even cheering for) the next supposedly essential military intervention beyond Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, and Syria—- ie. to go into PAKISTAN with both feet.

The supporting question of WHY THERE (in Pakistan) is that OBL was found and killed in PAKISTAN while being supposedly ‘protected’ by PAKISTAN’s military and ISI forces is, of course, to engender in the ever gullible and PR-deluded USA prole-citizens, the hate and FEAR of Pakistan, and specifically its supposedly untrustworthy and DANGEROUSLY NUCLEAR ARMED military and ISI (“country within a country”) forces that might at any instant attack the US “Homeland” with known nuclear capability——leaving the only warning as a “NUKULAR” SMOKING GUN MUSHROOM CLOUD.

In other words, our dear leader, Obama, is using Osama’s death in Pakistan as the ‘triggering mechanism’ for precisely the level of nationalism fear and terror that Bush, Cheney, Powell and others in the cast had to work much harder to falsely produce with the non-“nukular” Iraq—- but this time with the issue of the US population already fully aware that Pakistan is a nuclear power—- and now with the easy PR jump to the conclusion that Pakistan must be eliminated as a threat.

Boy oh boy, has the science of PR trickery and false-flagging to start wars evolved a long way from the days when all Hitler had to do was have a few of his soldiers dress-up in Polish Army uniforms and make a phony attack on a German radio outpost to start WWII.

Yes, folks, we now should all understand why the killing of Osama happened HERE (Pakistan) and NOW (Mayday 2011)—- the Revolution by this disguised global corporate/financial/militarist EMPIRE which controls our former country by hiding behind the facade of its bought and owned TWO-Party modernized Nazi “Vichy” sham of faux-democratic government and Goebbelesque media is about to “lower the boom”—- and you can be sure that this time the “lowering of that boom” will fall not only on the heads of Pakistanis, but also on our’s.

As Hannah Arendt presciently warned from her painful experiences with the last Empire that tried to take over the world and eliminate a portion of its own citizens:

“Empire abroad entails tyranny at home”.

Alan MacDonald

Liberty & democracy over violent empire—People’s Party USA 2012

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By reynolds, May 4, 2011 at 5:57 am Link to this comment

rd; she’s nasty in neutral, but i like to think i
can type the equivalence of whip, chair and pistol.
i turn the other cheek only in adjusting my aim.
as have most people, i ignored her for years. who
can read that crap? lately my glazed eye was caught
by a particularly noxious post on which i called
her. her response, belligerent beyond all reason,
was to deny it. thus was i moved to peruse the
archives. there is evidence aplenty of her
intemperance, her bile and contumely. if she’s close
to the line, it’s from the far side. i attempted an
exchange, anyway- more fool me. the rest is
i’d like to handcuff her to gone wrong old man,
wrist by ankle, and drop them both at whacko,
swerve’s swinging singles condominium in kitty city,
not that i’ve given it much thought.

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By Leefeller, May 4, 2011 at 4:58 am Link to this comment

All I can say is, I was indifferent about the Demise of Osama bin Laden…. Well, until after reading all the bleeding heart testimonial comments here on TD, about Osama bin Laden’s Death. The demise of Osama bin Laden is accordingly the awfullest thing that ever happed to the world since Obama the Muslim Zionist won the presidency.

Everyone is such a big-shot expert!

It appears, dumbing down is more than a plan, dumbing down is a living breathing reality and way ahead of schedule.

I highly recommend watching Comedy Central, John Stewart had some serious things to say about Osama bin Laden’s Death!

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By Shenonymous, May 4, 2011 at 4:22 am Link to this comment

Good morning!  Now who else says that?  Nobody! 

The Bobsey Twins reynolds and ardee have their minds filled with
the She.  She keeps their trivial attention occupied with minutiae. 
Notice that reynolds gets top billing though, because he has shown
just that little bit, really on the verge of insignificance, more class
than ardee.  But ardee is right, search the archives to see how
ardee began the assault on the nastiest witch on the face of the earth. 
He was shocked at what hornet’s nest he had disturbed.  She is better
than he is at turpitude, he just never knew.  That is the way it is with
boneheads and he was galled royally and so now we have a long saga
of his flailing trying to ‘get on top.’  hahaha Here, if you find yourself
deficient, I’ll give you a few more names to call Her.  Harpy, Harridan,
Hellcat, She-Devil, Termagant, Virago in alphabetic order.  Enjoy the
name-calling buffet.  That is all your shriveled minds are capable of. 

To use this forum for such egotistical drivel is the highest level of
intellect to which they are capable.  Soooo sad.  It says these impotent
old men get off on such drooling prattle.

Now for something serious, this article.  Rachel Maddow put the event
of Bin Laden’s demise in proper perspective last night when she said all
the salivating conspiracists have come out of the woodwork without
skipping one heart beat at the news of bumping off the butcher Bin
laden.  Every news story is completely different from any other.  The
avalanche of clashing and colorful cock-and-bull stories that are
inconsistent at best, preposterous at worst not only from every media
but from the confederacy of conspiracy minds who were just waiting in
their usual ready to pounce position to tell their own version with
absolutely no reliable information forthwith coming!  Everyone has their
own theory so we have no real theory, we have only trooth.  Sail on
short minds, sail on.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 4, 2011 at 3:51 am Link to this comment

I wonder how many people here think Osama Bin Laden was really a hero and should have be the US President instead of Obama.

I’m guessing that Robert and ChavistaKing and DRbhelthi and a few others see OBL as nothing but a totally innocent victim and that his stated desires to purge the world of all but HIS twisted brand of Islam was a “good thing”.

You don’t have to cheer Bin Laden’s death to recognize that he was, by his own words, a sworn enemy of the United States, determined to hurt and destroy us in any way he could. He was openly against freedom of religion, openly against freedom of speech, openly against women’s rights, openly against Israel’s existence, openly against European openness, openly for dictators like Qaddaffi and Bashir, openly for Sheik Omar, openly for a restrictive Taliban society, and for enforcing it first on the Muslim world and then for extending that Muslim world to the WHOLE world.  For Osama Bin Laden there was no such thing as peaceful coexistence.

Now he’s dead (or so they say) but we can be sure of one thing: If he’s not actually dead, we won’t know in our lifetime, so he might as well be (and I’m sure he will wish he was.)

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By ardee, May 4, 2011 at 2:57 am Link to this comment

reynolds, May 3 at 6:27 pm

Hee. I have heard of killing with kindness, but now I learn of making irrelevant with kindness…funny,clever, and I might try it. But, as a born and raised New Yorker I seldom turn the other cheek, and, if you use the archives, you might find just how nasty the witch can get.

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By Sanford, May 4, 2011 at 12:37 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

@Pavlov’s Dog, et. al.  Hedges and his sycophants are just amazing.  Both will take any and all events and actions and misconstrue them and misinterpret them as something almost unrecognizable to rational people.  Apparently this is what happens to those who live in a bubble with only like minded individuals, everybody just repeating the incorrect “facts” and erroneous interpretations of other people.

Referring to the cheering college students on CNN, you said:
“The cheering Amerikans have become just like him and his followers mindless, soulless fundamentalists driven by ignorance, fear and loathing.  Like bin Laden, Amerika has become a nation and people that know nothing other than killing.”

Talk about “jumping the shark” /hyperbole” /exaggeration / mis-interpretation.  Those college students were nothing more than excited that a hated, murderous national enemy could harm us no more.  That was all that you saw on the screen.  Nothing more!

“All of those who have promoted military violence over nonviolent conflict resolution have in the end become Obama’s greatest enablers and supporters.  In the end, they have turned Amerika into all that we abhorred in Osama bin Laden. “

Nobody is enabling Obama, he was elected, not enabled.  He was carrying out the will of the American people when he authorized eliminating Osama.  You may not agree with the American people and that is sad.  You use of a ‘k’ in our name trivializes the true evil of those former regimes that did spell our name with a ‘k’, by associating our policies with their truly horrendously evil policies.

Only a fool would think that it is possible to negotiate with someone that is convinced that it is his duty to kill you.  There is no possible way to negotiate with al Qaeda.  Since their goal is subjugation of the whole world to Islam, the only choices acceptable to them are to convert to Islam and live under Sharia law or live with their continued terroristic attacks.

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By Catskill Julie, May 4, 2011 at 12:13 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Some good points Chris, about too many bases around the world. However, I don’t think we—if you mean the US—are responsible for the collective humiliation of the muslim world. That gives the real humiliators, the European powers and maybe Israel, a very big pass.
The Americans I encountered on 9/11 being in NYC, seeing the second plane hit the tower from my roof with neighbors, dashing to Beth Israel to give blood on that day, and serving soup for the next week in the Red Cross shelter, those Americans were not drinking any “dark elixer” of any kind. They were sad, and scared, pulling together and trying to help their neighbors. They were desperate to find a way to HELP. Those who could not find a way felt useless, those who did, grateful.
And today, those Americans I meet are not interested in “Empire” at all. They are clinging by their fingernails to work, family and a life that’s slipping away from them.

In my opinion, seeking “Empire” is not in the American psyche. In general we Americans are content with our own nation, countrymen and culture. Others feel ignored by that as our movies, music and games invade their cultures. They feel slighted, but it’s a benign slight—we just really don’t notice if they adopt or dont. We rush to help others with a famine or natural disaster, that is in our nature. But “Empire” is being forced on us by politicians and commercial interests. We had to react to 9/11 but everyone knows now that Iraq was a terrible, expensive misadventure. Now Afghanistan seems like another Viet Nam, just waiting for us to leave to revert to what was before.

“Empire” is also forced on us by demands from NATO for leadership, from Egyptian and Libyian rebels who demand that America support them. From countries like Pakistan and Israel who think billions in aid from the US taxpayer is their due—whether they act in our interests or not.

So I think your criticisms would be better directed more pointedly at US corporate interests and their pandering politicians, not at Americans.

I read your reporting from Iraq with great admiration, but this speech strikes me as pretty florid. And the last line as just false. Americans are not becoming the monsters, but some of our corporate leaders and their paid government pets may be.

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By ChaviztaKing, May 3, 2011 at 11:55 pm Link to this comment


9/11 was a master plot, concocted by a handfull of Israelis and dual passport Americans and carried out by the resources of the Mossad.

The Israeli Conspiracy Theory (ICT)

Motive behind 9/11

Realization of the goals as formulated in the policy paper Clean Break, as well as the realization of the goals of the Project of the New American Century. It all comes down to the strengthening of the American global supremacy by creating an excuse for obtaining a larger military presence in the Middle East where some 60 percent of the global oil reserves are located (PNAC-goal), as well as improvement of the geostrategic position of Israel by eliminating its most important enemies (Iraq, Iran, Syria –> Clean Break-goal). The link with oil explains why people like Dick Cheney were on-board, somebody who made his career in the oil business and perfectly understood that oil was becoming scarce in the near future (‘peak-oil’). For the rest it would be a mistake to perceive a too-big-a-difference between the American and Jewish/Israeli interests, since the Jews constitute without competition the dominant class in the US, who hold all the levers to power: the visual and written media, the FED, Wallstreet, think tanks (AEI for instance), Hollywood, plus a large amount of organizations that cement the power of the Jews (AIPAC and ADL as important examples). The circumstance that de facto American politics (Dems plus Reps) is controlled by the Jews was until recently only said aloud by the extreme Right, now this insight starts to be realized by the Left as well, mainly because of the work of Mearsheimer and Walt (in the Netherlands brought under the attention by the leftwing broadcasting organization VPRO, see the English spoken ‘Tegenlicht’ documentary ‘The Israel Lobby’). That the Iraq-war was initiated by the (Jewish dominated) Neocon-movement, is so obvious that almost nobody denies that anymore.

How 9/11 was done
According to Bollyn 9/11 was concipated in a small network of conspirators in New York, Washington, Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. The central figures in that conspiracy were Silverstein, Olmert, Netanyahu, Atzmon, Dov Zakheim (my addition, via Dick Eastman) and many others and was carried out by the Mossad (responsible for the technical realization of the 9/11 operation, consisting in software-manipulation and placing of explosives in the 9/11 target buildings).

For a better understanding of all the links between people and organizations of the 9/11 Israeli crime network in the story that follows right click on the diagram below and open it in a different tab of your browser. Again, the diagram is based on the content of this story by Christopher Bollyn.


I will give a short summary of what Bollyn says about 9/11 and its perpetrators in that article, mixed with some speculations of my own and observations of others. The story by Bollyn is a very interesting read (some 40 page’s if printed out)

The 9/11-plan originated in a handful of Israeli brains: Isser Harel with his fixation on the WTC-towers, Dov Zakheim with his knowledge of remote control and the motive to stop the Pentagon-audit regarding the missing 2 trillion dollar (this idea I have from Dick Eastman, see further below), and Netanyahu and Olmert with their Clean-Break-fixation.

Directly after 9/11 it was the dual passport holder Michael Chertoff, who from his position as Asst. Attorney General within the ministry of Justice could quietly get rid of several suspects of 9/11 and get them out of the country without prosecution. More specifically the Israelis that got arrested near the Holland Tunnel.



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By ChaviztaKing, May 3, 2011 at 11:18 pm Link to this comment

9-11 was done by The Republican Party and not by Bin Laden.  Go to this link and watch this film Highjacking Castastrophe for the truth about 9-11.

Hijacking Catastrophe: 9/11, Fear & the Selling of American Empire examines how a radical fringe of the Republican Party has used the trauma of the 9/11 terror attacks to advance a pre-existing agenda to radically transform American foreign policy while rolling back civil liberties and social programs at home.

The documentary places the Bush Administration’s false justifications for war in Iraq within the larger context of a two-decade struggle by neoconservatives to dramatically increase military spending in the wake of the Cold War, and to expand American power globally by means of military force.

At the same time, the documentary argues that the Bush Administration has sold this radical and controversial plan for aggressive American military intervention by deliberately manipulating intelligence, political imagery, and the fears of the American people after 9/11.


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By ChaviztaKing, May 3, 2011 at 10:07 pm Link to this comment

I would like to say something not related to Bin Laden and this article, but related to the gangsterization of the whole society and the high levels of crimes in the whole country.  the other day I read a comment on the internet by some guy who said that he thinks that the latest abductions of young beautiful women in the state where I live are done by ultra-right wing young filthy rich college jocks sons of freemasons, skull and bones, corporate oligarchic families of The Republican Party of Tennessee. 

They are the big fish in this state, they have bought the police, the justice system and they even buy college degrees for their sons.  There are many ultra-right wingers oligarchic republicans in this state. 

People who have a lot of wealth, but you are not supposed to ask where that wealth comes from. Because in this state you don’t see many factories, many mines, many real wealth creators.  So anybody with lots of concentration of wealth is suspicious. F*ck this country of so much corruption. The whole USA is like the movie “Batman Begins” with Christian Bale

Bob Avakian, leader of the Revolutionary Party of USA of said something about this, he said that in the USA you see lots of very filthy wealthy families, luxury houses, luxury automobiles, but that the USA is just like the TV series and films “The House of The Sopranos”.  Because in this country we are not supposed to comment, to critisize and to ask the causes and effects of many things.  I mean the roots of the wealth of many republican oligarchic families.

Just like 9-11, the assasination of JFK by the Republicans Party oligarchs of the CIA, and many many other things that are wrong in America.

The people who love this mafioso, Tony Montana, Alcapone gangsterized society and nation, benefit from the gangsterization of the whole country, and they hate freedom of speech. Because of ideas, freedom of speech, and total freedom is a threat to the crimes of Republicans corporate elites


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By basho, May 3, 2011 at 10:04 pm Link to this comment

listening to the various news reports:

he was unarmed.
there were no guards.
the ISI knew nothing about the house occupants.

shot instead of captured.
no photos to be released.
buried at sea.

did i miss anything?

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By ChaviztaKing, May 3, 2011 at 10:02 pm Link to this comment <—THE CASE OF PETER PAUL VS. THE CLINTONS. The Shocking video Hillary Clinton doesn’t want you to see. This is the most shocking expose on the blatant corruption surrounding Hillary Clinton. Includes exclusive home videos of Hillary to expose the illegalities that elected Hillary to the Senate and the obstructions of justice that keep her there (PART 1) <—THE CASE OF PETER PAUL VS. THE CLINTONS. The Shocking video Hillary Clinton doesn’t want you to see. This is the most shocking expose on the blatant corruption surrounding Hillary Clinton. Includes exclusive home videos of Hillary to expose the illegalities that elected Hillary to the Senate and the obstructions of justice that keep her there (PART 2)


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By ChaviztaKing, May 3, 2011 at 9:15 pm Link to this comment

May God help us. What happened to AMERICA and Americans. Should we laugh, cry to our own stupidity? How can thousands of people buy this lie and celebrate the death of a person had nothing to do with 9/11? I understood the families of victims to a certain degree right after 9/11 but not now. Haven’t they discovered the truth yet? Please people watch “Hijacking Catastrophe” to see who was behind 9/11 crime.



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By Not One More!, May 3, 2011 at 8:45 pm Link to this comment

A friend of mine writes:

‘Taking dictation of the propaganda stories from government spokesmen is the basis for journalist’s hard hitting reporting of the facts.  As the truth is finally discovered, it is too late to change the myth.  Mission Accomplished.’

We care so little for the truth as long as we get placated and feel good about ourselves, or at least the stuff we have.

so it goes,


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By reynolds, May 3, 2011 at 8:43 pm Link to this comment

i’d say crying is the safe bet

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By Maani, May 3, 2011 at 8:32 pm Link to this comment

That didn’t take long!  The “official story” starts to unravel in less than 24 hours!

And, of course, the dissembling, obfuscation and spin continue. But the sheeple accept whatever their government tells them, and just keep working, consuming, and buying into whatever propaganda they are being sold. Good little sheeple. Take your meds. Don’t worry, be happy. Big Brother is watching over you, and the big bad wolf is dead.

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry…


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By Arabian Sinbad, May 3, 2011 at 7:26 pm Link to this comment

As more bits and pieces surface about the latest cheap Hollywood, fantasy-based movie about the assassination of “Geronimo,” one is left to wonder about the limits that corporate political-military America is willing to consider in order control and manipulate the emotions of those who have the herd mentality. Consider the following:

1. Osama Bin Laden, a long dead man, is miraculously brought to life through the fictitious name of “Geronimo”;

2. The fictitious Bin Laden is living in a mansion in an area populated by military and educational institutions in an upper scale neigbourhood;

3. Yet, he didn’t have any body guards to guard and protect him;

4. Worst yet, he himself was unarmed to defend himself in case… so the fiction goes that the cowardly old man took his own wife as a human shield;

5. So the old man who couldn’t be better than myself in handling computers and technology, had in his possession a huge numbers of computers, considered now as treasure trove; yet there were no employees and technicians around to handle all the technology!!!

6. Despite the fact that there were no armed guards within the complex, and not even Mr. Geronimo was armed, the “so-courageous” 40 American special operations, well-trained soldiers, could not apprehend the factious Bin Laden and take him alive to stand a trial for the world to see. Instead he was cowardly shot in the head and quickly buried at sea in a so-called “Islamic” handling!!!

7. Do I need to say more to explode the myth of this so-called heroic act by a bunch of brainwashed gang, who most likely were paid handsomely to carry out this cheap movie, directed by Obama and company!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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By Cliff Carson, May 3, 2011 at 7:23 pm Link to this comment


Have you read “Human Destiny” by Lecomte du Nouy? The Edition I have was printed in 1947 so I expect that an argument could be made that the book doesn’t benefit from what has been discovered in the last 65 years.

Lecomte was elected as the World’s Most Outstanding Scientist for the years 1900 - 1950, by the World Academy of Scientists.  Most people never heard of him or this book.

He is an Anti-Darwin type, a Theist I guess, but anyway his theory of “How Life Began” is obviously Religious and yet he claims scientific in basis.

He discusses that the Universe is a closed system and therefore all change must follow the laws of
probability.  And he argues that time is finite therefore has limits and that the Chicken and the Egg came as a combination from God.  If you haven’t read his book, please do.  Since this is off subject I need to get back on track.

When I use the words Cause and Effect I mean the killing of one begets reaction from the relatives of the other.

I think if we go back a little ways in History, we will find that Religion brought on more wars than any other single event.  Well that’s not entirely true, the Religion is often used as the excuse to plunder others freedom, ownership,resources, wealth, whatever.

So when I mention the Chicken or the Egg, I look at the Middle East and wonder when did the hatred start and why?

I believe it all started when Oil and such was discovered in the Middle East and Immoral Governments were hired as Mercenaries by Rich and Powerful Patrons to get those possessions from the true owners.

Accuse them of something and start a war over it.  Start a war that is, if you know they won’t be able to defend themselves against your armies.  Be sure and propagandize your people so they will feel threatened by the new “Enemy” and can easily be persuaded to go off and kill the bastards.  Those invaded countries and peoples don’t like that attitude and because they only have sticks and stones they must find a way to resist.  You know kind of like the Colonials did when they were threatened by a superior army of oppressors.

Didn’t turn out too well for the superior force and I’m afraid that our corrupt Government will act as mercenaries one time too many and will be destroyed.  It won’t bother the Rich and Powerful though.  They will just move lock stock and barrel to the winning side and start calling for the winners to kill the dirty bastards.

It’s called the cycle.  The common man sure takes it on the chin during these cycles.  If God waits for the oppressed to get to heaven to admonish the oppressor, will the oppressed get to celebrate?

Or since God has already chosen his people - who by the way are oppressors, what solace is left for the rest of the world?

Did you know there is not a Universal International definition of what is a Terrorist?  Wonder why?

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By jc, May 3, 2011 at 7:16 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Cut off the head and another one grows…

As I recall, he has been dead since 2007, guess killing him twice is better than dying once.

In addition, was dropped into an ocean sounds too fishing, so he is not made into a saint for the Muslim movement.

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By Robert, May 3, 2011 at 6:44 pm Link to this comment

Osama bin Laden’s Useful Death

By Paul Craig Roberts

“May 03, 2011 “Information Clearing House”—In a propaganda piece reeking of US Triumphalism, two alleged journalists, Adam Goldman and Chris Brummitt, of the Associated Press or, rather, of the White House Ministry of Truth, write, or copy off a White House or CIA press release that “Osama bin Laden, the terror mastermind killed by Navy SEALs in an intense firefight, was hunted down based on information first gleaned years ago (emphasis added) from detainees at secret CIA prison sites in Eastern Europe, officials disclosed Monday.”

How many Americans will notice that the first paragraph of the “report” justifies CIA prisons and torture? Without secret prisons and torture “the terror mastermind” would still be running free, despite having died from renal failure in 2001.

How many Americans will have the wits to wonder why the “terror mastermind”—who defeated not merely the CIA and the FBI, but all 16 US intelligence agencies along with Israel’s Mossad and the intelligence services of NATO, who defeated NORAD, the National Security Council, the Pentagon and Joint Chiefs of Staff, the US Air Force, and Air Traffic Control, who caused security procedures to fail four times in US airports in one hour on the same day, who caused the state-of-the-art Pentagon air defenses to fail, and who managed to fly three airliners into three buildings with pilots who did not know how to fly—has not pulled off any other attack in almost ten years? Do Americans really believe that a government’s security system that can so totally fail when confronted with a few Saudi Arabians with box cutters can renew itself to perfection overnight?</b>

<i>How many Americans will notice the resurrection of the long missing bin Laden as “terror mastermind” after his displacement by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the Guantanamo prisoner who confessed to being the “mastermind of 9/11” after being water-boarded 183 times?

Americans are too busy celebrating to think, a capability that seems to have been taken out of their education.

Americans are so enthralled over the death of bin Laden that they do not wonder why information gleamed years ago would take so long to locate a person who was allegedly living in a million-dollar building equipped with all the latest communication equipment next to the Pakistani Military Academy. Allegedly, the “most wanted criminal” was not moving from hide-out to hide-out in desolate mountains, but ensconced in luxury quarters in broad daylight. Nevertheless, despite his obvious location, it took the CIA years to find him after claiming to have gained information of his whereabouts out of captives in secret prisons. This is the image of the CIA as the new Keystone Cops.”


Click on link for the rest:

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By Artful Dodger, May 3, 2011 at 6:29 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I know this a gruesome question to ask, “Does the CIA keep an inventory of frozen corpses as plants for the next needed big kill?”

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By reynolds, May 3, 2011 at 6:27 pm Link to this comment

rd; i’ve taken the bait before, never again. she’s a
farce to be reckoned with. i couldn’t help but notice
she has managed to disturb even your customary
equilibrium recently. no shame, her power to annoy is
it might be stockholm syndrome, but lately i look
forward to her posts. hers is a colorful, if confused
cosmology. there is poetry in her piffle. she’s cute
when she’s completely insane. and i quote;
“one loves one’s own reflection best when blathering
stupidly and in vain.” i believe her.

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By entropy2, May 3, 2011 at 5:31 pm Link to this comment

It’s telling that much of the debate here (and in other sites) concerns not the facts of the case, but whether we even know the facts, or ever will.

Assuming that, or at least wondering if, you’re being lied to is now part and parcel of hearing any news. Between the impenetrable complexity of most issues, the existence of the technology available to phony up any evidence and the propensity of the corporate-state to shamelessly mislead us to further their own agenda, we are left with only a “narrative,” not the truth.

Sad and scary reality of living in a huge system in its death throes.

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By Marc Schlee, May 3, 2011 at 5:13 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Every time a suspect is imprisoned without being charged or murdered without trial brings us closer to the day when it’s you or I that’s being imprisoned or murdered.



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By Shenonymous, May 3, 2011 at 4:52 pm Link to this comment

Who has not considered, if they have a thoughtful demeanor,
the chicken/egg dilemma?  It is easy and fashionable to ask the
question when trying to deal with cause and effect, but how many
have actually tried to answer it?  Some problems of cause and effect
are with qualifications, perfectly answered, others are hazy.  Science
usually can answer the cause and effect but philosophical inquiry
might fuzz up the edges of the answer since there are no absolutes.
But coming close, with high probability, is workable and hence for all
practical purposes gives answers that can be lived with, always,
however, with the provision that if new evidence is discovered, we are
flexible to take it into account and could even change a perspective if
it is warranted.  That is what is meant to be open-minded and is
descriptive of scientific explanations.

So, ahem… The chicken/egg problem.  If thinking meanders back
to when organisms first began to produce eggs, for we know that
amphibians lay eggs, and before that, we know that there was first a
chemical evolution that occurred on earth.  Louis Pastuer and Francisco
Redi proved that spontaneous generation theory was wrong.  Sometime
after 4600 million year ago, or 4.6 billion years ago, the earth was
created and the emergence of complex or multicelled biological life-
forms occurred about 4 billion years later, which we can call the
beginning of biological evolution.  The earliest living organisms were
microscopic bacteria, and we know this from fossil records 3.4 billion
years old.  Bacterial reproduction most commonly occurs by a kind of
cell division called binary fission.  No eggs involved, sigh.  The
evolution of life forms would take too long to discuss here but if you
are ignorant of earth history, and are interested in learning about it, try
the website:

There are more technical sites but this one will do for a beginner.  It does
go into how oxygen was formed as a result of the photosynthesis of the
cyanobacteria that lived in the oceans.

Still on the chicken/egg hunt, briefly, about 600 million years ago, Ediacrans
grew in the seabeds and did not have any obvious head, mouth, or digestive
organs.  The largest, Dickinsonia looked like a ribbed doormat (fossil evidence). 
But mah, they disappeared but it is thought not before giving descendents of the
first multicelled animals of three varieties:  Sponges that had no nervous system,
cnidarians such as sea anemones, corals and jellyfish with simple digestive
systems that also had a mouth but no anus! Hear that Leefeller!  Can’t say
anything Uranus about the jellyfish.  They did have tentacles and stinging cells. 
The third group, the annelids, ala the flatwoms, had fluid-filled body cavities, and
breathed!  through their skins, and they lived on land as well as the sea.  They are
the forerunners of the snails and slugs. (Leefeller, again you might find that last
bit of info interesting.)  BTW:  Precambrian time makes up about 85% to 87.5%
of geologic time or Earth’s history.  Then there was what is called the Cambrian
explosion of life.  Individual cellular organisms formed but only those that formed
colonies survived (fossil evidence) to further evolve.  Shell organisms developed. 
Well as it appears, eventually through the Silurian and Devonian periods, the
organisms that also develop eggs/sperm developed as whole formed organisms
simultaneously, so the chicken/egg arrangement evolved at the same time. 
Happiness!  Ancient mystery solved!  I hope.  But you knew all of this didn’t you? 

Much more can be learned if a visit to Organic Evolution 19-page PDF document.
I formed a TinyURL because the original website address is 394 characters long!

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By Not One More!, May 3, 2011 at 4:51 pm Link to this comment

If some of you are following the recent news, contrary to the ‘lets put Bin Laden’s Head on a Stick’ crowd, he was unarmed at the time of his arrest. They say he resisted, but maybe that is a normal reaction to getting shot in the head. And the reports that he used his wife to shield him are also bogus.

And who knows what else is bogus?

But this much is true, the Middle East war didn’t start because of him, and the wars won’t stop with his death/execution.

If people really want a path to peace and justice, they wouldn’t be supporting the republican and democratic CORPORATE party.

When we start acting as our enemy, what does that say about us? - Peace Quotes

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By Mr Zeppo, May 3, 2011 at 4:30 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“It is all one… There are no distinctions between us:
our casts as much as our beliefs are illusions that
come between us and truth. I know nothing of spiritual
matters. I have abandoned the beliefs of my childhood
and I cannot take any others in their place. All
religious teachings seem to me to be made up of half of
deep truth and half of utter madness. People cling to
their beliefs as if they could be saved by them, but
beyond all the teachings, there is a place of truth
where it is all one.”
~ Lian Hearn

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By illusions, May 3, 2011 at 4:23 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

OSAMA BEN LEDEN IS JUST A TOOL AMERCA USE TO COVER THIER CRIMES..THIER SHAMEFULL EVIL PLANS..PLS AMERICANS WAKE UP WE DONT HATE YOU UR WRONG just pls stop ur troops to kill our people all over the muslim world..pls leave us alone..

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By cardcarry, May 3, 2011 at 3:37 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I don’t know what’s more disappointing, the hodgepodge of disorganized sentiments in Chris Hedges’ speech (Bin Laden as Hitler but not worth taking out) or the pathetic comments from some readers (Bin Laden’s not really dead or died long ago).

Ordinarily I am a big fan of Hedges and I am confident that in some future column he’ll pen a more sure-handed analysis of the hit on Osama, examining the virtues and vices of the decision undertaken by the world’s last superpower to eliminate the world’s poster boy for international terror.

As for some of your readers, I’d like to say along with John Kerry and John Edwards that “help is on the way,” but you know what good that old slogan did.

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By cardcarry, May 3, 2011 at 3:34 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I don’t know what’s more disappointing, the hodgepodge of disorganized sentiments in Chris Hedges’ speech (Bin Laden as Hitler but not worth taking out) or the pathetic comments from some readers (Bin Laden’s not really dead or died long ago).

Ordinarily I am a big fan of Hedges and I am confident that in some future column he’ll pen a more sure-handed analysis on the hit on Osama, examining the virtues and vices of the decision undertaken by the world’s last superpower to eliminate the world’s poster boy for international terror.

As for some of your readers, I’d to say along with John Kerry and John Edwards that “help is on the way,” but you know what good that old slogan did.

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By Mark Stouffer, May 3, 2011 at 3:31 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Bin Laden was doing what Hollywood taught him because
we have explosions in movies? He is doing what Mcnamara
did in Viet Nam?

“We responded exactly as these terrorist organizations
wanted us to respond.”

By killing Osama bin Laden?

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By @HelenInCarp, May 3, 2011 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“have become the monster that we are attempting to fight”

Isn’t that so true.

A great article. Thanks.

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By Cliff Carson, May 3, 2011 at 2:57 pm Link to this comment

Information for “The Truth”.

I Watched and heard Sarah Palin say the Iraqi war was God’s War, that he approves of what we were doing in Iraq.  Over 1,000,000 Iraqis dead and their country destroyed.  They did nothing to America.  Did God approve that?

I watched and heard Rod Parsley state that he was sent on a mission by God to eradicate Islam from the face of the Earth.  Did God ordain Parsley to go to war against Islam ?

I watched and heard John Hagee raise money for Israel and state that Christians couldn’t go to heaven if they didn’t support the Israeli war against the Palestinians.  Has God endorsed a Religion that denies his Son to to be his chosen People?

I recently watched and heard Governor Huckabe state that the Palestinians should get out of the Palestinian Territories because it wasn’t their land, that it had been given to Israel by God and it belonged to Israel.  The Palestinians didn’t start this war against Israel, Israel didn’t even exist then,it was brought to the Palestinians over 100 years ago by people who claimed God gave the land to them - the same Religion that denies the Son of God.

And “The Truth” states “Isolation will not work with these types of terrorists.. they are on a mission from god, and have a purpose in their mission (to kill anyone different from them)”.

Is it just possible that they are “fighting back” for their very existence?

Earlier I spoke of Cause and Effect.  I guess the question to be answered is :  Which came first the Chicken or the Egg?

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By Shenonymous, May 3, 2011 at 2:54 pm Link to this comment

ardee and reynolds:  IYDK:  One loves one’s own reflection best
when blathering stupidly and in vain.  I wondered if it was true that
an idiot’s gibberish was only understood by another gibbering idiot,
and you two prove it is.  Ho hum.  To “know” me is to love me. LOL,
and yes, it would be wise to take caution to feud with She as the
savage Hernonymus has a deathly protective pack of hounds from
hell.  Grrrr

The Truth’s post is much appreciated that corrects the misled and
misrepresented reporting that is further conjectured by the obsequious
Hard Left.  But it must not overlook Christian Conservative intention
that shows at the least a surface dynamic resemblance to militant
Islamists.  Check out Terry Jones as the latest sample.  The effort of
the Republican Right to severely damage the American middle class
both economically and against personal rights of a woman’s right to
her own body, to repealing the Human Rights Act, and other ethnic
related legislation is a modern de facto ethnic cleansing to whiten up
and Christianize the country.  The distinction lies only in their
originating basis.  Both think they have the trooth.

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By drbhelthi, May 3, 2011 at 2:32 pm Link to this comment

Right. The current falsification of the murder of Osama bin Laden was
very well staged, with few complications. One team of well-trained
mercenaries attacking a compound inhabited by a family of locals, who
did not have a chance. All the fairy tale pictures emerging, compounded
by Cheney´s amplified, oral flatulence, signifies that the
NAZI/CIA/MOSSAD types feel very secure in their murderous roles.

Many insiders and a large percentage of their close associates are
aware that Osama bin Laden died in the Winter 2001/2002 from renal
failure, after two kidney transplants. Neither of which worked, as his
basic, Moslem mental set refused to accept the NAZI-Dr. Mengele-
initiated, transplantation of human body parts. 

Insiders have to be increasingly careful with leaks. The “leak
detecting mechanism” has tightened up. The BP-Gulf destruction
whistle-blowers, are either dying or disappearing shortly after going
public. With PFC Manning receiving NAZI Stalag treatment instead of
legal, American adjudication, wise insiders have become more careful
with “leaking” information that reveals USGOV criminal dealings.

The Obama crew is beefing up his popularity for a 2nd term as
USPresident, and preparing the western world for future 9-11s as
equally fraudulent as the original. However, the western world has
learned to recognize his false pre-election promises, in spite of
media disinformation prevalent in the western world. Only Bush-rigged,
voting machines will put him in office a second term; unless patriotic
Americans man the polling places, defeating Bush family deception.

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By ikallicrates, May 3, 2011 at 1:35 pm Link to this comment

I was half ready to believe the rumors that Osama bin Laden died years ago, but the government pretended he was still alive so they could go on terrorizing everyone in a spurious hunt for him. The government’s description of his assassination changed my mind.

They caught this man alone, except for his wife, and unarmed. They could easily have captured him alive, but they chose to kill him instead. And shoot his wife. This is so shameful that it must be true.

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By ardee, May 3, 2011 at 1:26 pm Link to this comment

reynolds, May 3 at 9:54 am

I had to read this twice actually and have only two comments.

€ You seem a knowledgeable poster indeed

€ you should understand that to feud with she is to open yourself up to the floodgates and the unleashing of the hounds of hell.

But I do like your style. Hope you have as large a sense of humor as I do….....

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By John Poole, May 3, 2011 at 12:58 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I will donate to a space project where people who need tribal affiliation are
magically beamed up to a distant asteroid where they can duke it out. That would
be the Israelis, Palestinians and perhaps another hundred or so tribes.  Me? I’m
just a clueless hetero earthling and in time that too will be very provincial and

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By Cliff Carson, May 3, 2011 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

I really liked the Voltaire quote.  Here is one that should apply to our Government Propaganda team leading the Empire Campaign.  At least maybe it is what their plan of conquest is based on.

“As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities”.  -Voltaire

In the White House News Room Conference awhile ago on CNN, one reporter persisted in asking about :  How did Osama resist?  Was he armed?  Did he use a human shield?  Who was in the room with Bin Laden? Did that person resist?  Was that person armed?

The answers from the White House Correspondent:

Bin Laden did not resist.  He was not armed.  He did not use a human shield.  Bin Laden’s wife was the only person in the room with him.  Whether she resisted or not is not clear.  She was not armed.

Also revealed:  Bin Laden was shot in the head and chest.  His wife was shot in the leg.

The question is:  In light of those answers given less than an hour ago - Why wasn’t he taken alive and brought back for questioning.  Or do you think possibly our Government might not tell us the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Is Osama Bin Laden still alive or has he been dead for years?

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By The Truth, May 3, 2011 at 12:20 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I too am an American who has been living in the middle east for the past almost decade.
This journalist is wrong in so many ways, and misses the point. He says that bin laden is ONLY a spiritual leader.. Well let me tell you something you don’t understand. Religion is everything for these people. Americans can’t understand this because they can’t see themselves doing anything in the name of religion and think the same for the rest of the world.. This is not true. These muslims are deeply religious and do what they do in the name of religion.. SO killing their religious leader is a BIG DEAL. 

Second, He makes the same mistakes as too many Americans do and did after 9/11.. Blame America. Because we went to war (to show them who they are dealing with)we have created hatred in them for us. Well, let me tell you, it’s been there all along.. why do you think they attacked us in the first place.

Islam’s goal is to impose their laws (sharia) on the world and to kill whoever does not comply, that is why they hate America, because it stands for liberty and justice for all, and not their laws, period.

Diplomacy does not work for them. They do not seek peace.
Propaganda works, so they use it.

The problem is far bigger than Americans realize.

Isolation is a good tactic to use on terrorists who terrorize for fame and recognition, however,
Isolation will not work with these types of terrorists.. they are on a mission from god, and have a purpose in their mission (to kill anyone different from them)

So Mr. Journalist, if you do know the true evils of al quada, if you see war as being a problem, what is the solution?

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By omop, May 3, 2011 at 11:27 am Link to this comment

For what its worth the quote of the day by Hillary C…..

  ” Osama bin Laden killing shows ‘you cannot defeat us”.

    Really?  Asks the rug merchant and continues…. ” three or four or
five Wars For The Jews later, the most powerful nation in the world is
now headed to third-world status at record speed.”

    ” Its citizens are unable to fly anywhere without being sexually
assaulted, and many other civil liberties have been permanently lost, all
in fighting the ‘War On Terror’. If that’s not defeat, what is?’

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By Noah Watt, May 3, 2011 at 11:24 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What is your opinion of where Osama was located at the time of his supposed death? Considering the Pakistani government was hiding him does this seem like his death was timed just right (along with certain Libyan leaders relatives) to solidify our involvement with the Middle East, therefore making it impossible to ever withdraw from war in these countries.

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By DigThis, May 3, 2011 at 11:21 am Link to this comment

Thucydides?  Jesus, where did this guy go to school, Harvard?

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By DigThis, May 3, 2011 at 11:07 am Link to this comment

Hedges was taken prisoner by RG during GWI.  Holy shit!

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By Shenonymous, May 3, 2011 at 10:53 am Link to this comment

It shows, reynolds, that your hate of me has rotted what was left
of your shrunken brain.  It is sad to watch a wannabe human
crap in his/her pants.  Yikes!  Aren’t you are one of the finalist
candidates to be the 72nd virgin?  Make sure you wash your

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By Lew Ciefer, May 3, 2011 at 10:18 am Link to this comment

@ Katsteevns, May 2 at 9:53 p.m

I’m no fan of Tricky Dick but I doubt that.

Nixon—like Obama—ran on an “end the war” campaign but once in office—like Obama—was more concerned with continuing the war to assure his reelection. You’re missing the point ... it’s the American left’s hypocrisy.

Whether or not everything went down as we’re being told—I personally don’t buy anything the government sells—that which is IMPORTANT here is the rapid tergiversation by the American left of its much ballyhooed altruistic ideals and its public and shameless embracing of all that they previously have vehemently condemned. They openly embrace and celebrate targeted assassination, the military, a new war in Libya, the killing of a member of their newest protected minority—MUSLIMS—because it made them feel like they had just won a sporting event and assured of their mocha savior’s reelection. One can hardly be more to left than “The View” and those harridans were unblushingly wetting their panties for the first time in decades over the targeted assassination of a Muslim figurehead that many, if not most, on the left secretly admired.

American leftist hypocrisy is what is important here. They aren’t anti-war! They love war as much as the American right if it’ll assure their grip on power. The problem is that the dumbed-down bases are never able to learn that there is but one Ruling Oligarch and one party ... the Oligarch’s party. And that they are nothing more than the Oligarch’s trained monkeys.

“We are buried beneath the weight of information, which is being confused with knowledge; quantity is being confused with abundance and wealth with happiness. Leona Helmsley’s dog made 12 million last year - and Dean McLaine, a farmer in Ohio made $30,000. It’s just a gigantic version of the madness that grows in every one of our brains. We are monkeys with money and guns.” -Tom Waits

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By Not One More!, May 3, 2011 at 10:03 am Link to this comment

“All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.” - Voltaire

In our country, Obama (and Bush, and Clinton and Reagan) hear the trumpets. That is unfortunate.

We have killed tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of innocent civilian to avenge our 3,000 dead (including over 6,000 of our own military). That is what terrorists do.

Shortsighted people find solace (and excitement) in that type of retribution.

“Tis the time’s plague when madmen lead the blind.”
(William Shakespeare’s King Lear, Act 4)

http://www.NotOneMore.US - Take the Pledge for Peace

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By reynolds, May 3, 2011 at 9:54 am Link to this comment

i hate shenonymouth for it’s freedoms. 
to decimate is to reduce by one tenth. the correct
definition is dismissed as obsolete, which is but
one proof of correctness. a word which derives from
latin intact (decimatio; decem = “ten”) is rendered
obsolete only by its misuse at the mouths of the
masses. never ms. rand’s naked savages, but the
savages in camouflage kimonos and “git R done”
baseball caps.
fyi, shenonsense, hoi polloi means ‘the masses’. to
say “the hoi polloi” is to say ‘the the masses’.
rave on, you proud american. beware, “the
affectatious always trip over their own mouths”,
which they seldom open but to change feet.

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By Leefeller, May 3, 2011 at 9:09 am Link to this comment

Wondering about GRYM, is like wondering what the smell is just after stepping in dog poo!

72 virgins not 22 virgins,... I don’t which is worse, because I thought it was 22 vegans,... now I know it’s worse.

Hey, if Moslem’s go to 72 virgins,... where do infidels go to?

  Osama can you see

Osama, bin Laden can you see
it just so happens you no longer be

tis said you killed many people in your time
boy its nice to know you never committed a crime

expensive getting you did cost a pretty dime
boy its nice to know it took a long, long time

martyrs make for long windy stories
which speak of their many great glories

so now you are among 72 virgins, so they say
lets hope they are all female, unless you are gay

Osama bin Laden, some find it sad to see you go
I suspect this is only because they are a bit slow

boy its nice to know you never committed a crime
Osama bin Laden, can you see?

  Leefeller Guy

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By aprohricht, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 am Link to this comment

Perfectly spoken.

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By omop, May 3, 2011 at 8:40 am Link to this comment




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By Ed Lytwak, May 3, 2011 at 8:33 am Link to this comment

My first reaction to the assassination of Osama bin Laden was sadness and disgust. I first found out about his killing when I opened the Washington Post and saw the headlines “U.S. forces kill Osama bin Laden: Obama: “Justice has been done.” Below was a picture of a crowd of mostly young people celebrating in front of the White House, some with clenched fists raised, others with the familiar “we’re #1” raised finger. On an NPR radio newscast, I also heard a crowd at NY’s Times Square chanting “We’re #1.” I was disgusted not so much over the death of bin Laden - he probably got what he deserved and certainly got what he wanted martyrdom – but by the reactions of the crowds of predominantly young Americans.
Yes, “We’re #1” alright.  The U.S. is the “Number One” nation for killing and waging war, the number one at resolving conflict through extreme violence. In that regard, Osama bin Laden has nothing on the U.S. Sure bin Laden is evil and al-Qaeda has been responsible for killing tens-of-thousands of innocent men, women and children. But that is nothing compared to the number of innocents that have been killed since 9-11 by the U.S. military and its mercenaries in the so-called “War on Terrorism. ” The deaths of over 3,000 people on 9-11 was tragic and sad but the hundreds of thousands of people killed by the U.S. response is even more deplorable.
I am disgusted by a nation that celebrates—just like we just won the big game - over yet more deaths in the spiral of violence that was unleashed after 9-11. Its not like V-J Day, the War on Terrorism is not over—the killing is not over—and it won’t be.  Yes, Osama bin Laden was an evil, violent person but it is truly pathetic that so many people don’t realize that many of our highest leaders are behind the killing of innocent people.  Even more reprehensible is that the U.S. war on terrorism is not going to end because too many people are making too much money off of it.  That is what truly disgusts me. At least bin Laden killed because of some twisted religious morality and not as the U.S. does for money,  It kills hundreds of thousands just to maintain the power and profits of multinational corporations.
I am also saddened by what America has become since 9-11.  Obama talks about “justice” but our country no longer knows what that even means. What happened on on 9-11 was wrong but what the U.S. has done and become since then is more than wrong.  Sadly, Amerika’s violent response to Osama bin Laden has destroyed any hope of real justice. The U.S. War of Terrorism has given us and the world more and more violence, more and more dead innocents—but it can never gives us true justice—only revenge.
What is really pathetic is all the people “cheering” the great U.S. victory.  They don’t even realize that they are celebrating Osama bin Laden’s triumph. Now that he is a martyr his victory is complete.  The cheering Amerikans have become just like him and his followers mindless, soulless fundamentalists driven by ignorance, fear and loathing.  Like bin Laden, Amerika has become a nation and people that know nothing other than killing.  All of those who have promoted military violence over nonviolent conflict resolution have in the end become Obama’s greatest enablers and supporters.  In the end, they have turned Amerika into all that we abhorred in Osama bin Laden.

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By Lafayette, May 3, 2011 at 8:17 am Link to this comment


Grym: The softer, gentler, wiser -Peace Prize winning- President Obama prefers summary execution of those who are deemed to be “criminals”.

Yes, and only quacks with a political agenda overlook the fact that bin Laden was indeed a criminal of the worst sort - with estimations of his victims to be over 8000.

Myopia never served rightly the objectives of justice. You would have a shrine built in his name dedicated to all those wrongly accused and executed with extreme-prejudice?

Had bin Ladin had YOU in his sights as an American soldier responsible for the deaths of his fellow Muslims, would he have given you the benefit of a trial by jury?

Not be a long shot he wouldn’t. (Pun intended.)

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By entropy2, May 3, 2011 at 7:56 am Link to this comment

@Go Right Young Man—so, are you justifying Dubya’s actions, condemning both BHO’s and GW’s actions or trying to say that one is better (or worse) than the other?

Just wondering.

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By Peter Knopfler, May 3, 2011 at 7:53 am Link to this comment

OBAMA´s rating so low had come out with a HAT trick.
2nd Roll out Ben laden, even though on ice since
2005, lets make it look like a fresh kill ok Gen.
Protaeus you help me now get re-elected and I will
support your military presidency,

3 strikes and the public is knocked out mesmerized.
OBAMA re-elected Protaeus next president FINAL TOUCH
IN A PLAY NOTHING IS REAL, nothing to get hung about,
strawberry fields forever,WE ARE ALL SCREWED:

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By lucas, May 3, 2011 at 7:35 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

How did WTC # 7 collapse?

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By Hammersmith, May 3, 2011 at 6:48 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

His cause was just.

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By Go Right Young Man, May 3, 2011 at 6:23 am Link to this comment

Obama: Better Dead Than “Tortured”.

The Obama Administration dislikes GITMO, Rendition, and interrogations.  These things are thought to be “Un-American”.  The “evil” that was the Neo-Con Bush Administration. 

The softer, gentler, wiser -Peace Prize winning- President Obama prefers summary execution of those who are deemed to be “criminals”.

“Enhanced” Interrogations, GITMO, Rendition, Domestic Signal Intelligence, Indefinite Detention, Military Commissions and Summary Executions are all, not only relied on heavily today, much has been expanded and strengthened by the Obama Administration.

The irony being—President Obama is the poster-child definition of a true Neo- (New) Conservative.

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By sharpfang, May 3, 2011 at 4:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Oh dear - Chris Hedges, not surprisingly, joins the legion ‘journalists’ going along with this total fantasy of ‘killing Osama bin Laden’.
You cannot (heroically) kill a man who has been dead for nearly 10 years already. This entire thing is pure theatre - to prop up sagging voter-ratings; to provide distraction from the Domestic economic misery and worker protests; to take the headlines away from the clumsy, bullying invasion of Libya, using mercenary terrorists and millions of bombs; the ongoing inevitable failure in Afghanistan etc etc

The Law of Habeus Corpus - produce the body - present the evidence for public scrutiny. Does anyone really believe that if they had OBL, they`d have flown his body thousands of kms to dump in the sea ? Give me a break - and sheeple, wake up from the coma.

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By brewerstroupe, May 3, 2011 at 4:44 am Link to this comment

“What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil? ..
And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you – where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?
This country is planted thick with laws from coast to coast, Man’s laws, not God’s, and if you cut them down—and you’re just the man to do it—do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then?

Yes, I give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake!”

Robert Bolt.
A Man for all Seasons

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By Lafayette, May 3, 2011 at 4:38 am Link to this comment


tm41: You have, and still continue, to support despots and dictators on a “friendly business arrangement” basis with no regard for the well being of the citizens living under such desperate conditions

That WAS our policy for most of the Cold War and even post-Cold War years. Some call it RealPolitik but with the Cold War over, it is just a variation on the theme of Vested Geopolitical Interests. We have seen the Deep DooDoo that such myopic foreign policy gets us into.

Otoh, there is no doubt that without the supply of oil for energy purposes, we can all kiss not only our Internet connection good-by but our jobs as well. No, we do NOT eff-around those who have us by the short ‘n curlies.

Mentalities, I suggest, are changing. We would dearly like al Qaeda to go the way of Carlos.  Remember him? Well, he is rotting away in a Parisian jail cell. And what happened to his “network of terrorists”? Long gone.

So, what happened in the past does not matter as much as what might happen in the future - now that bin Laden has been laid to rest.

Pundits have it that “nothing has changed” and al Zawari, organizationally N° 2 and the intellectual force behind al Qaeda, will simply pick up the fallen flame of terrorism. That remains to be seen - it’s a hot-torch.

Al Qaeda needed to be headed by a personage that seemed invincible. Bin Laden’s mortality has now been proven. That WILL have a profound effect upon the rabble that believed his Salafist Nonsense of Muslim Superiority.

We should watch closely how al Qaeda morphs, but we should also focus on getting the Palestinians and Israelis around a negotiating table. Which shouldn’t be Mission Impossible if we threaten to suspend the two billion dollar carrot that we throw them every year.

Settling the six-decade division of these two Semitic people will go a lonnnngggg way towards solving the Middle East riddle.

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By Lafayette, May 3, 2011 at 4:14 am Link to this comment


CH: The tragedy of the Middle East is one where we proved incapable of communicating in any other language than the brute and brutal force of empire.

Can’t agree.

The tragedy of the Middle East is a clash of cultures, ours Individualist and theirs Highly Collective.

We should force a solution down Israeli throats to establish a Palestinian State within which they can do as they please - out of the West Bank (entirely) and the Gaza Strip.

If that doesn’t happen we stop the annual foreign aid in the region of $2.5B, which historically adds up to more than a trillion dollars since 1949 (see here).

Enough is enough. Israel owes the Palestinians autonomy in exchange for peace, which is the foreign policy we should be promoting instead of kissing Israeli backsides.

If that happens, the al Qaeda kamikazis will disappear gradually like the morning dew. And our boys ‘n girls will stop coming home in body-bags.

And the Palestinian/Israeli peoples can get on with their lives - separately and independently.

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By Shenonymous, May 3, 2011 at 4:13 am Link to this comment

Leefeller, that is 72 vestal virgins

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By RayLan, May 3, 2011 at 3:22 am Link to this comment

“The tragedy of the Middle East is one where we proved incapable of communicating in any other language than the brute and brutal force of empire.”
My thinking coincides exactly with Chris’. Terrorism is as much a psychological tactic as a military one - maybe more so. The 9/11 terrorists had fear-monging, imperialist US psyched to a t. The ensuing attack on the civil rights of its own citizens with the so-called Patriot Act with the loss of habeus corpus, hearkens to the US japanese internment camps of the Second World War. Islamaphobia took off with a vegeance victimizing anybody even appearing to fit the profile of a Muslim not to mention a fake war with Iraq.
These anti-American terrorists knew exactly how to incite the imperialist dragon of exploitation and pre-emptive aggression.

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By ardee, May 3, 2011 at 3:05 am Link to this comment

tedmurphy41, May 3 at 2:53 am

Who the hell are you to come to a forum wherein most speak out against exactly what you criticize us for? Try reading first before demonstrating your pomposity.

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By bogi666, May 3, 2011 at 3:05 am Link to this comment
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“as a country we have become the monster that we are attempting to fight”. Their are two proverbs that describe what the USG is doing. 1st a Yiddish proverb “choose your enemies well for you will become like them” and by Desmond Tutu “we must not become like those we oppose”.The USG does not choose it’s enemies well and in fact they may choose us first because the USG is a terrorist organization of state sponsored terrorism. All the atrocities the USG does around the world is just training for what they will do domestically.1,000,000 privatized DHS contractors at 10,000 locations located in the USA, should be a warning of the repression being implemented now.

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By tedmurphy41, May 3, 2011 at 2:53 am Link to this comment

Cause and effect!
You Americans really don’t get it, do you?
You have, and still continue, to support despots and dictators on a “friendly business arrangement” basis with no regard for the well being of the citizens living under such desperate conditions unless, of course, the situation suits your Government, when a big play is made about protecting the lives of innocent civilians with the collusion UN Security Council, whose title is a real misnomer, which is no better, only ever becoming involved when an internationally authorised rubber stamp is needed.
It has a name, and it is hypocrisy.

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By A Khokar, May 3, 2011 at 2:05 am Link to this comment

Let me elaborate it bit further that;

It’s all fair in Love and War

Death of Osama Bin Laden may be big News for United States for some but it is not any less big news for Pakistanis too.

With No telephone connection; No internet; Believably the ailing Osama Bin Laden was let live his last days of life in his purpose built retirement home called ‘Waziristan House’ in supposedly secure civilian area, mostly occupied by retired military officers and well to do peoples, near Kakul military Academy in Abbotabad, a Cul-de-sac where life runs at a very slow pace and peacefully.

Reportedly the US-Pak relations had strained at the times when US is about to start its withdrawal in July this year from Afghanistan. Relations were hitting their rock bottom. With no victory in sight for US in this region; It was all set that US was likely to make Pakistan a scapegoat by severing all the relations of a favoured ally and abandoning Afghanistan after shifting the blames of escalation of war oo terror on to Pakistan.

Recently; after the Davis Raymond case coming to surface these relations were exceptional acerbated. There was a dire need of mending the strained relation with US; Pakistan the loyal US proxy who has suffered the most may not afford to lose US at this juncture; so Pakistan gave away the last prized trump card in hand to US; to come and pluck >>> Osama bin Laden away and make their day… of a well sought victory by US.

Pakistan let US do it what they did to come and take Osama Bin laden, the most wanted man in the world away and they did it so. The well desired jubilation in US circles is worth witnessing on this success orchestrated by ISI. After many decades of US humiliations that it has been consistently suffering after every US adventure that it under took; may it be Vietnam War, the Gulf Wars or War on Terror all had brought a bad name for US. But after a long time President Barrack Obama will now be declaring a victory in Afghanistan against War on Terror.

Hats off to the great peoples of our Grand ISI; once again they have proved to be the best of all to save guard the interests of Pakistan from ditching into age of darkness that our enemy had planned.

Didn’t I say earlier that Pakistanis are notch above the rest? They are very much capable of turning the tables.

Yeh; sadly Osama is made a scapegoat but is it not that they say——-all is fair in Love and War

[Rothey Piyaa ko mannaney kay leaay kuch bhi karay gaa]

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By A Khokar, May 3, 2011 at 12:47 am Link to this comment

Believably the ailing Osama Bin Laden was let live his last days of life in his retirement home called ‘Waziristan House’ in supposedly secure civilian area, a Cul-de-sac mostly occupied by retired military officers and well to do peoples near Kakul military Academy in Abbotabad.

But in case of dire need of mending the strained relation hitting bottom rock with US; Pakistan the loyal US proxy may not afford to lose US at this juncture; so Pakistan gave away the last prize target in hand to US to come and pluck >>> Osama bin Laden away and make their day.

The well desired jubilation may be witnessed in US circles.

So they say: All is fair in Love and war

Didn’t I say earlier that Pakistanis are notch above the rest. They are very much capable of turing the tables.

[Rothey Piyaa ko mannaney kay leaay kuch bhi karay gaa]

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By Lord, May 3, 2011 at 12:44 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

You may be a good jornalist, your view on the matter however seem to be biased.

You claim this is a language “we” taught “them”... ...“they have been using that language for at least 1600 years.

Then you insert “imperial” on the lines about the american bases, that only shows your political orientation.

I will rather have a Guy like Osama (religious fanatic) than a guy like Gandhi (killed by a religious fanatic) shot.

Your stomach sank when Osama dies? Were you routing for Osama my friend? Think, for heavens sake.

You seriously does not seem to know what you are talking about, to be good to report events does not mean to know about matters, just saying.

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By Lewis, May 3, 2011 at 12:16 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“And the killing of bin Laden, who has absolutely no
operational role in al-Qaida—that’s clear—he’s kind of a
spiritual mentor, a kind of guide … he functions in many
of the ways that Hitler functioned for the Nazi Party.”

This contradicts the point of your article.

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By Sublime Comments, May 3, 2011 at 12:02 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I have read the intellecutal prose on this site and everyone demonizes the U.S.  Have any of you fought in a war?  Or, endured a fight in Kuwait in a sand storm having to live like an animal only to preserve your life.

Are we not a people of remembrance anymore?  The Holocaust?  The human rights violations in Africa to which the Bush administration sent more money than ANY administration before him

Osama Bin Laden used a woman as a human shield - what a coward.  Watch the people on the 9/11 jumping from the towers, fire fighter running into burning buildings and a man’s sorrow as his pregnant wife dies on a flight to California following her excitement to return home early to her husband.  All of the rhetoric of this conversation sickens me.  I am glad to call myself an American and if that is Nationalistic then so be it.  Certainly you may find a better life in Venezuela, Yemen, or Pakistan where freedom and the veracity of government holds true. Right?  No propaganda exists there.  Both the Bush Administration and Obama are leaders and exercised their right to kill/capture a monster who planned and funded the attacks on innocent civilians.  Chris Hedges is an intellectual phony. Study the Warsaw Ghetto in Germany during Hitler’s terror.  You certainly have learned nothing from history. I am glad that the U.S. is my country despite your macabre expose.  My friends lost a mother and wife of 22 years on 911.  Where is your compassion or anger towards the terrorists that took innocents lives.  How sad that you are numb to these people. I only pity you and the rhetoric of others.

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