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Cheney in Winter

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Posted on Dec 30, 2009
Dick Cheney
U.S. Navy / MC1 Denny C. Cantrell

By Eugene Robinson

It’s pathetic to break a New Year’s resolution before we even get to New Year’s Day, but here I go. I had promised myself that I would do a better job of ignoring Dick Cheney’s corrosive and nonsensical outbursts—that I would treat them, more or less, like the pearls of wisdom one hears from homeless people sitting in bus shelters.

But he is a former vice president, which gives him a big stage for his histrionic Rottweiler-in-Winter act. It is never a good idea to let widely disseminated lies and distortions go unchallenged. And the shrill screed that Cheney unloosed Wednesday is so full of outright mendacity that, well, my resolution will have to wait.

In a statement he gave to Politico, Cheney seemed to be trying to provide talking points for opponents of the Obama administration who—incredibly—would exploit the Christmas Day terrorist attack for political gain. Cheney’s broadside opens with a big lie, which he then repeats throughout. It is as if he believes that saying something over and over again, in a loud enough voice, magically makes it so.

“As I’ve watched the events of the last few days it is clear once again that President Obama is trying to pretend we are not at war,” Cheney begins.

Flat-out untrue.

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The fact is that Obama has said many times that we are at war against terrorists. He said it as a candidate. He said it in his inaugural address: “Our nation is at war against a far-reaching network of violence and hatred.” He has said it since.

As Cheney well knows, unless he has lost even the most tenuous grip on reality, Obama’s commitment to warfare as an instrument in the fight against terrorism has won the president nothing but grief from the liberal wing of his party, with more certainly to come. Hasn’t anyone told Cheney that Obama is sharply boosting troop levels in Afghanistan in an attempt to avoid losing a war that the Bush administration started but then practically abandoned?

Cheney knows this. But he goes on to use the big lie—that Obama is “trying to pretend we are not at war”—to bludgeon the new administration on a host of specific issues. Here is the one that jumps out at me: The president, Cheney claims, “seems to think that if he closes Guantánamo and releases the hard-core al-Qaeda-trained terrorists still there, we won’t be at war.”

Interesting that Cheney should bring that up, because it now seems clear that the man accused of trying to blow up Northwest Flight 253, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, was given training—and probably the bomb itself, which involved plastic explosives sewn into his underwear—by al-Qaeda operatives in Yemen. It happens that at least two men who were released from Guantánamo appear to have gone on to play major roles as al-Qaeda lieutenants in Yemen. Who let these dangerous people out of our custody? They were set free by the administration of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.

The former vice president expresses his anger that the Obama administration is bringing Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the architect of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, to trial in New York. Cheney is also angry that Obama does not use the phrase “war on terror” all the time, the way the Bush administration used to. But Obama just specifies that we’re at war against a network of terrorists, on the sensible theory that it’s impossible to wage war against a tactic.

Toward the end of his two-paragraph statement, Cheney goes completely off the rails and starts fulminating about how Obama is seeking “social transformation—the restructuring of American society.” Somehow, this is supposed to be related to the president’s alleged disavowal of war—which, of course, isn’t real anyway. It makes you wonder whether Cheney is just feeding the fantasies of the paranoid right or has actually joined the tea-party fringe.

I can find reasons to criticize the administration’s response to the Christmas Day attack. Obama and his team were slow off the mark. Their initial statements were weak. Obama shouldn’t have waited three days to speak publicly, and when he did he should have shown some emotion.

But using a terrorist attack to seek political gain? I have a New Year’s resolution to suggest for Cheney: Ahead of your quest for personal vindication, put country first.
   
Eugene Robinson’s e-mail address is eugenerobinson(at)washpost.com.
   
© 2009, Washington Post Writers Group


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DieDaily's avatar

By DieDaily, January 18, 2010 at 5:52 pm Link to this comment

There were no nice guys, nation-wise, in the lead up to WWI or WWII. I just hope people don’t get too caught up in who did what and recognize that the financiers were encouraging, provoking, implanting, and then selling to both sides. They way they always do. Napoleon wrote extensively on the subject. The money masters eventually got the better of him too, for his impudence. Waterloo was not lost due to bad strategy, it was due to betrayal. 48 hours later, Rothschild was the richest crook in London. And that included the government. And that was back when governments had assets instead of just massive debts. Same then as now, no peace until we disenfranchise the big banks. Period.

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By firefly, January 18, 2010 at 5:49 pm Link to this comment

ItW,

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I disagree with your point of view and as you are obviously narrow-minded and unwilling to open your mind, I see no value in this discussion.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 18, 2010 at 5:35 pm Link to this comment

Firefly:
You have no idea what you are talking about or about me.

I challenge Buchanan’s credentials as a researcher, as an analyst, and as a disinterested observer.

He’s always engaged in reductionism—and that’s a flaw that immediately and totally discredits ANYONE claiming to write “history”.

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By firefly, January 18, 2010 at 3:25 pm Link to this comment

ItW,

First of all, CALM DOWN! So, you are a better historian than Pat Buchanan are you? What are your credentials?

Secondly, you are reacting irrationally and not thinking laterally. You have obviously, as many, many Americans have, been taught a history of events that will always depict America as an altruistic generously spirited, benign nation who has nothing to gain by bombing other nations other than to eliminate ‘the bad guys’ and bring about peace and tranquility in the world. And probably being the patriot you are, will hate that idea ever being challenged.

This is not to say that there isn’t any truth at all it that perception (I’d say most ordinary Americans – the ones that aren’t in control of the Pentagon and the military industrial complex, or huge corporations, or oil industry, are generous people), but if people like you are not ever willing to question the accepted line, it’s not surprising that America finds itself at odds with so many other countries. For example, if America was the saint it likes to sell itself as, then other countries would have no grievances at all. After all, who could hate a country that is humane, generous, kind, democratic, egalitarian, friendly and considerate and above all, just/fair?

America profited hugely from WWII and to this day, continues to profit from war. Its trillion dollar industry in weapons is what made it a superpower, NOT its altruism. Most European countries have only just finished paying off a debt to the US from WWII. America did so well out of WWII, that it saw that weapons were its future business. But in order to justify this weapons industry, it has to make the American people believe that the rest of the world is hideously dangerous and that war is always going to be justifiable. And in order to prevent any truly ‘independent’ country from even attaining one weapon (as opposed to the thousands that the US has), it has to convince the people that, that country is dangerous to the world. America is armed to the teeth, and justifies all its violent campaigns against other nations on the basis of bringing ‘what’ exactly? Peace? How can you ever create peace by endless war? America wages more war on the rest of the world than any other nation and all of this is because it continues to use WWII (and Hitler) as a justification for ‘fighting evil’. Why not question the ‘evil’ it enacts on others, or the ‘evil’ it supports when it is financially expedient to do so?

Wars have always existed.  Most wars were fought out of greed, not for philanthropic purposes. And, most wars were started by rich, greedy men who had the power to send out poorer people to fight for them. Of course, many war leaders were able to garner support for their exploits by using religion or bighearted propaganda to mobilize the masses. It worked then, and it still works today…. War is not necessary.

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By drbhelthi, January 16, 2010 at 4:31 am Link to this comment

Your delayed, very qualified answer has landed. Your level of access provides documents that remove all doubt, plus answers to a multitude of questions, which you probably already knew. School attendance, school attendance, birth records, etc. Marvelous how well the company can doctor.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 15, 2010 at 9:51 pm Link to this comment

You cite as your historian…PAT BUCHANAN?  The man doesn’t have a CLUE about history and merely cites the tired old story that Hitler was really all just the fault of Versailles!

What an imbecile HE is and so are you for thinking it’s all just that simple.

When you say “necessary wars” you ignore the question: Necessary to WHO? 
Was it REALLY necessary for Austria to declare war on Serbia in 1914?
Was it REALLY necessary for Germany to back Austria?
Was it REALLY necessary for Russia to declare war on Austria?
Was it REALLY necessary for France and Britain to declare war on Germany and Austria?
Was it REALLY necessary for Germany to begin attack American shipping in earnest in 1916?
Was it REALLY necessary for the US to defend its shipping?
Was it REALLY necessary for the US to get into the war to ensure NEITHER France nor Germany emerged dominant on the Continent?
Was it REALLY necessary for Franco to destroy the democratic government of Spain?
Was it REALLY necessary for Hitler to use Spain and the Spanish people as guinea pigs for the new German war machines and blitzkrieg technique?
Was it REALLY necessary for Germany to attack Poland on 1 September 1939?........
.........starting WWII?

Was it REALLY necessary to stop Hitler?  WTF do YOU think????

The rise of Hitler and other dictators following WWI is not a simplistic as an apologist for Hitler like Pat Buchanan would make it.

But to argue that wasn’t Hitler’s fault the War started is to ignore the basic fact that HE CHOSE to declare an unnecessary war on Poland.  But that doesn’t mean the War was unnecessary for his enemies—and conquerors.

Usually, for one side, ANY war isn’t necessary—but for the other side, it usually becomes necessary, if that side is to survive.

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By firefly, January 15, 2010 at 9:38 am Link to this comment

ItW,

More recommended reading:

Churchill, Hitler, and “The Unnecessary War” by Patrick Buchanan

Were World Wars I and II—which can now be seen as a thirty-year paroxysm of slaughter and destruction—inevitable? Were they necessary wars? Were the bloodiest and most devastating conflicts ever suffered by mankind fated by forces beyond men’s control? Or were they products of calamitous failures of judgment? In this monumental and provocative history, Patrick Buchanan makes the case that, if not for the blunders of British statesmen—Churchill first among them—the horrors of two world wars and the Holocaust might have been avoided. Half a century of murderous oppression of scores of millions under the iron boot of Communist tyranny might never have happened, and Europe’s central role in world affairs might have been sustained for many generations.

Among the British and Churchillian blunders were:

• The secret decision of a tiny cabal in the inner Cabinet in 1906 to take Britain straight to war against Germany, should she invade France
• The vengeful Treaty of Versailles that mutilated Germany, leaving her bitter, betrayed, and receptive to the appeal of Adolf Hitler
• Britain’s capitulation, at Churchill’s urging, to American pressure to sever the Anglo-Japanese alliance, insulting and isolating Japan, pushing her onto the path of militarism and conquest
• The 1935 sanctions that drove Italy straight into the Axis with Hitler
• The greatest blunder in British history: the unsolicited war guarantee to Poland of March 1939—that guaranteed the Second World War
• Churchill’s astonishing blindness to Stalin’s true ambitions.

And from the NY Times review:

Buchanan’s argument requires something like a historiographical sleight of hand, and is conducted backward, as it were. He cannot say that there was nothing wrong with Hitler, and he doesn’t argue, as some right-wing English historians such as John Charmley and the late Alan Clark have done, that Hitler represented no threat to England and the British Empire and that he should have been given a free hand in Europe. And as an American conservative nationalist, Buchanan is scarcely going to follow Charmley and Clark and say that the real enemy of Great Britain and its empire was the United States.

Instead he says that Hitler would never have come to power had it not been for the previous war followed by the vengeful Versailles settlement, and that the war in 1914 had itself been mistaken, or even provoked by British policy, however little the English ostensibly wanted it (apart from Churchill, needless to say; Buchanan quotes Sir Maurice Hankey: “He had a real zest for war”). This is not new. Between the wars it was regularly asserted by high-minded Englishmen and Americans that no country was ever more responsible than any other for any war; that Germany had been at least as much sinned against as sinning; and that the post-war settlement was a grave injustice. Since these were specifically liberal doctrines, it is amusing to see them reiterated by Buchanan, who is not specifically liberal……………….
……..Where Buchanan, in his vehement way, is obviously right is that the war to defeat Hitler had largely unintended and immensely destructive outcomes. In a chapter entitled “Fatal Blunder,” he condemns as utter folly the British guarantee to Poland in 1939, the proximate cause of the war, thereby allowing himself another swipe at Churchill, who said that “the preservation and integrity of Poland must be regarded as a cause commanding the regard of all the world.”

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By firefly, January 15, 2010 at 9:37 am Link to this comment

ItW,

History, as you no doubt know, is written by the victors. My point is just that Hitler may or may not have taken over Europe and maybe today, Europeans would all live under a global German empire instead of a global American empire and who knows whether the world would be worse or better off.

I recommend the following books:

Human Smoke: The Beginnings of World War II, the End of Civilization by Nicholson Baker

At a time when the US seems ever more eager to call on military aggression as a means of securing international peace, Baker’s provocative narrative exploring the political misjudgements and personal biases that gave birth to the terrifying consequences of the Second World War could not be more pertinent. With original and controversial insights brought about by meticulous research, Human Smoke re-evaluates the political turning points that led up to war, challenging some of the treasured myths we hold about how war came about and how atrocities like the Holocaust were able to happen. Baker reminds us, for instance, that it was thanks in great part to Churchill that Mussolini ascended to power so quickly, and that, before leading the United States against Nazi Germany, a young FDR spent much of his time lobbying for a restriction in the number of Jews to Harvard. Praised by critics and readers alike for his gifted writing and exquisitely observant eye, Baker offers a combination of sweeping narrative history and a series of finely delineated vignettes of the individuals and moments that shaped history.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 14, 2010 at 8:52 pm Link to this comment

Firefly:
You were doing good with your analysis of Al Qaeda’s terrorism despite your misunderstanding of the difference between war and terrorism, even though both are horrible.

But when you got to WWII you made a fool of yourself.
Hitler’s moves to conquer Europe were calculated.  His moves to show that France was a paper tiger was planned.
In 1936 he re militarized the Rhineland.  Had France marched in at that time, the Germans would have been unable to stop them. But because it was in response to MILITARY action, and not to rob Germany (as the 1923 failed Ruhr invasion was), nobody would have blamed France.  Hitler would have been driven from power.  He was bluffing and IT WORKED!

With the anschulz, the bluff worked again Germany and Austria were united.

Then at Munich in 1938, he successfully bluffed Chamberlain into allowing Czechoslovakia, a VERY defensible nation, to be peacefully dismembered for the so-called “Sudetenland”.

His next goal was, of course, the Polish Corridor separating Germany from East Prussia, a 40 mile wide strip FAR smaller than the Canadian Corridor between the 48 and Alaska.  By getting the Soviet Union to sign the 1939 non-aggression pact (since Japan and China were well at war and Stalin KNEW the West was pushing Hitler at him), he made Poland his next attack.

Firefly: Britain and France didn’t start war in Europe.  Hitler did when he launched his attack on Poland on 1 Sept 1939.  By then, Germany was FAR stronger than it had been in 1936 and was much larger—with the joining with Austria and the Sudetenland.

After Poland, Hitler’s next attack was CLEARLY going to be to remove Alsace-Lorraine from France and attach it again to Germany since it is a German-speaking region.

Meanwhile, like any ruthless dictator and like he learned from Mussolini and Stalin, move FAST to track down ALL potential enemies, real and imagined. Even before Jews, Hitler was rounding up enemies, starting with the KPD, the MOST successful Communist party ever in a democracy—at one point the KPD captured 25% of the vote and Hitler NEVER got more than 34%.

Yes, there WAS a resistance but it was weak and ineffective.  Despite the great failures by July 1944, and even the support of Erwin Rommel, Hitler could not be overthrown.

I don’t object to revisionist history. I just object to revisionist history that has no factual basis of support.

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By BR549, January 13, 2010 at 5:19 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

drbhelthi, January 13 at 4:33 am #
“Hello “Junior”, the following link provides some interesting
pictures: http://www.tomflocco.com/Docs/63/BushJfkBookDepo.htm”

I appreciate the trouble you went to in posting this, but I have to give it a
possible maybe. It could be the lighting, but the guys cheekbone looks a lot
more pronounced than GHWB. .......... And I know this is really petty, but in the
picture, the guys tie is just too far above his belt for any self respecting former
preppy. I went to one of Phillips Academy’s competing schools and anyone who
was paying attention usually wore their tie long enough to dip slightly over
their belt buckle. Who knows? Maybe it is Bush and he was having a bad day,
but since he had also attended Greenwich Country Day, as a youth, I have to at
least imagine that he wouldn’t have been allowed to get away with such an
infraction.  :o)

My two cents, but, sorry to say, I don’t think that’s him. I could be wrong.
Thanks anyway.

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DieDaily's avatar

By DieDaily, January 13, 2010 at 12:57 am Link to this comment

I would add that it is impossible to stop perpetual
war without neutralizing the international banking
cartels. It’s true the Hitler had the support of the
people. But we set things up so that no other outcome
was possible. The Carthaginian Treaty of Versailles
guaranteed the rape of a populous and the inevitable
emergence of a demagogue (again arranged by the
international bankers, British and Dutch royalty, and
much of corporate/financial power America). Pacifism
is a viable option (in terms of stopping war, I mean)
if and only if the usury and profiteering of the
banks and their corporations is made impossible
first. This means prosecutions and a radical re-
framing of international law away from Admiralty Law
and toward Common Law. As long as Corporations are
themselves “legal Persons” instead of collections of
accountable natural persons, we are doomed. So let’s
get on that!

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drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, January 13, 2010 at 12:33 am Link to this comment

Hello “Junior”, the following link provides some interesting
pictures:
http://www.tomflocco.com/Docs/63/BushJfkBookDepo.htm

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By firefly, January 12, 2010 at 7:26 pm Link to this comment

Hi M Henri Day,

Yes, you’re right. It was Chamberlain, not Churchill that declared war on Germany. Thanks for the correction.

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M Henri Day's avatar

By M Henri Day, January 12, 2010 at 2:36 pm Link to this comment

Firefly, I think it important to note that the leader of the British government that declared war on Nazi Germany on 3 September 1939, two days after the German attack on Poland, was not Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill, but Arthur Neville Chamberlain. Chamberlain remained Prime Minister until 10 May 1940, when he resigned in favour of Churchill after the failure of the ill-conceived British campaign in Norway, for which he took, as Prime Minister he was bound to do, responsibility, although the campaign was - you guessed it ! - Churchill’s idea….

Henri

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By ardee, January 12, 2010 at 3:41 am Link to this comment

The fly in Marshall’s soup

Trying to equate World War Two with the current “war” on terrorism is much to much of a stretch and I think this poster risks serious injury in the attempt.

Two nations, principally, Germany and Japan, attack other nations…a war ensues.Capitalism at work.

A group of people, motivated by religion and nationalism, commit acts against occupiers of their nations, independent of the quasi legality of government. That is not a war, that term is only used to stir the blood of “patriots” like Marshall and give a certain credibility to slaughter and torture.

Is that fly doing the backstroke?

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By Marshall, January 11, 2010 at 11:58 pm Link to this comment

By firefly, January 11 at 8:28 pm #

Thanks firefly but my question only needed a simple yes/no answer and as
expected, I received a lengthy reply that attempts to side step the issue
altogether.

I’m not going to argue revisionist history that suggest the german people would
have risen up and overthrown the third reich’s military machine if only the allies
had sat around and done nothing, or even laughably “voted” his dictatorial regime
out of office.  In any case WWII is simply one example that usually gets to the
heart of the grand question: is there EVER a time when conflict is unavoidable. 
You’ve essentially answered “no” and that leaves little room for a foreign policy
discussion based on reality so i’ll sign off here.  thanks for the discussion.

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By firefly, January 11, 2010 at 4:28 pm Link to this comment

I think you like sticking labels on people don’t you? Am I a pacifist? Is that meant to suggest that I don’t understand that humans (especially men) have a natural propensity for violence? Sure I do. Humans also have a natural propensity to rape, steal and cheat.  Does that mean that I should just shrug and accept it? No. We don’t steal from a thief, or rape a rapist in order to gain justice.

I wasn’t alive during WWII, but in my opinion, the war was overly glorified by the victors. I imagine you have just swallowed the wholesale victors’ history haven’t you, without ever questioning any of it?

The truth is, we’ll never really know what would have happened if Churchill hadn’t declared war on Germany.  Of course, there are those that like to imagine that without the war, Hitler would have ‘conquered’ every last square mile of Europe. But of course, he might not have.  It’s possible that the German people would themselves have risen against Hitler (the US often likes to portray a country as being unanimously supportive of its leadership, but that is rarely the case) and there is now a lot of evidence coming out of Germany to suggest that many Germans themselves were not happy with Hitler’s invasion of Poland, much in the way that many Americans were not happy with Bush’s invasion of Iraq.

Also, some historians now say, that if peace had been maintained, Hitler would have probably lost the next democratic election. But most importantly, it is unlikely that Hitler would have ever been able to create the concentration camps and gas chambers during peacetime. Such atrocities are made more possible during times of war. So, war probably enabled Hitler to create prison camps which led to the mass murder of 6 million Jews.  We know ourselves, that Bush was only able to justify atrocities at Guantanamo and Al Ghraib, on the basis of ‘war’. He would never have been able to do that without a ‘war’.  6 million Jews, 27 million Russians, 18 million Europeans (non Jews), 500,000 Americans and 20 million Chinese people died during WWII. I’m not sure that I believe it was worth it.

I think if man has the capability to learn that stealing and rape is wrong and we do not punish such deeds with similar deeds, man could learn that the violence of war is wrong. Of course we wouldn’t get rid of it, but we could end unnecessary suffering on those innocents who frequently have nothing to do with the perpetrators of violence, yet are more often than not caught in the crossfire.

Americans glorify war. They love their military, their guns, and their violent movies and violent computer games. It is not me that lives in a fantasy world. Most Americans have no idea about the reality of war and how it really feels to be on the receiving end of violence and destruction. However, the stories of the soldiers coming back from Iraq, demonstrate that some Americans have had their eyes opened.

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By Marshall, January 11, 2010 at 3:06 pm Link to this comment

By firefly, January 11 at 12:25 pm #

Are you a pacifist firefly?  Did you support US actions in WWII or Afghanistan?  Or
are you more in line with Cindy Shean who condemns all conflict on the grounds
that all conflict can be settled peacefully?  This is an important “yes/no” question
because it decides whether you are capable of an actual discussion about when
conflict is appropriate, or whether you’re simply living in an idealized fantasy
world .

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By firefly, January 11, 2010 at 8:25 am Link to this comment

Marshall,

I do not agree that it is a mistake to ‘assign the logic of grievances’ to the actions of terrorists.  As I said before, terrorism is not new. ‘Terrorism’ is a label put on a group of people by other people who oppose them, that’s all. No one is born a terrorist. It is not a race or creed. It is a label defined by a violent act. Terrorism is a capricious tool used by anyone (including soldiers) that commits violence in order to achieve a goal.

Many so-called terrorists don’t think of themselves as terrorists, they are people fighting a cause and in their minds they definitely do have legitimate goals. You don’t have to agree with those goals to be able to recognize that they exist. For example, the fact that there are Americans that want to deny ALL women the freedom to make their own choices is a recognizable goal of some Republicans, some of whom have become ‘terrorists’ in their determination to achieve that goal.

You are wrong in assuming that Al Qaeda’s goal is terrorism itself. Al Qaeda is a global movement, which means different things to different people, but essentially it is about fighting US control of global resources and to get the US (its military and corporate power) out of the Middle East. It uses terrorism to achieve that.

Although it is likely that there are a few fanatical Al-Qaeda operatives who want to impose a ‘global Islamism caliphate’ (probably as much as the evangelical missionaries all over the globe who want to impose Christianity on other people), that is not really their objective. They don’t have plans to turn America into a Muslim land. I doubt very much that you have any real understanding of Islam, so I don’t pay much heed to that diatribe on ‘extremism’ which is of course just another sound-bite by the western media.

I didn’t say anything about recruiting terrorists from poverty. Those are your words. I said that poverty is often a cause of terrorism. Some of the people that Al-Qaeda have recruited are indeed from privileged backgrounds who are often young, idealistic, foolish teenagers that are easily manipulated by cruel, angry men with ideological goals.

I stand by my belief that ‘war’ does not solve the problems that cause ‘terrorism’ because war is a form of terrorism. Violence leaves behind a cesspool of anger, hatred and bitterness, (and economic and structural deprivation) which frequently causes further violence. It takes a strong and prudent move to end the violence, not perpetuate it.

I believe terrorists should simply be treated as criminals and taken to court to plead their case and then judged (preferably by impartial jury). It has been said that the term ‘war’ is self-fulfilling. In order to have a war, you have to have an opposition to fight. That in itself legitimizes an enemy. If you call an act of terrorism a crime, and the perpetrators criminals, you immediately undermine their cause, reducing their status from bold soldiers (jihadists) in a war to that of petty criminals in the underworld.

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By ardee, January 11, 2010 at 4:26 am Link to this comment

Still waiting “doctor”

Post one single illustration of my “jewish propaganda”, just one, Ill wait here…........

I, unlike you, am on the side of truth and sanity.

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By ardee, January 11, 2010 at 4:25 am Link to this comment

Marshall may be losing it, and no wonder, his position becomes less tenable with each passing day…

AQ’s reason for existence is to commit acts of terrorism, not to achieve legitimate goals.

AlQaeda’s reason for existence has been clearly stated and should be known to all who comment upon that group; the ousting of Western military presence in the Middle East.
Its methodology to achieve said goal is terrorsim.

There are times, given Marshall’s increasing lapses, that I believe he is a committee rather than an individual.

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By Marshall, January 11, 2010 at 1:49 am Link to this comment

By firefly, January 10 at 7:50 pm #

One mistake the left often makes about AQ is to assign the logic of
“grievances” to its actions.  AQ’s reason for existence is to commit acts of
terrorism, not to achieve legitimate goals.  It’s stated goals change regularly,
but these are simply propaganda mechanisms and recruiting tools - not
ideological imperatives. AQ does have the stated goal of imposing a global
islamist caliphate which is perhaps it’s one honest aim though it’s aware
enough to know that won’t happen.

So while engagement minded appeasers spend time psychoanalyzing AQ in a
vain attempt to provide it with an agenda we can negotiate, it continues to plan
lethal attacks on any who oppose it (including fellow muslims) because AQ is
under no illusions about its own intentions; continuing a war against societies
that don’t buy its fundamentalist brand.

Your myth that they recruit from poverty is easily dismissed when one looks at
the privileged backgrounds of the terrorists thus far, including OBL himself. 
Improved economic conditions abroad have no effect on islamist ideology
based on extremist religious beliefs.  But it appeals to the western liberal’s
concern for the plight of the common man and the belief that entitlements
cure all problems.

AQ must be confronted directly, as we’re doing successfully in Pakistan with
targeted predator strikes.  Those who refuse to see this as a war undermine the
effort to combat the problem by framing it as a problem of disenfranchisement
or as simply a police matter.  It’s not.  It’s a war.  Just ask AQ.

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By firefly, January 10, 2010 at 3:50 pm Link to this comment

Marshall,

No, I don’t suggest appeasement. But I seriously believe that it’s important to understand and address the root causes of terrorism. Terrorism is (and has always been) very hard to define (it didn’t begin with 9/11 and Al Qaeda). The French resistance during WWII were ‘terrorists’ to the Nazis. Exploding bombs on people anywhere in the world causes absolute terror (and often long-term psychological damage) on the victims. Usually, terrorists have a cause (that people do or don’t sympathize with) but I don’t agree with their methods of dealing with their grievance anymore than I agree with the US using war as a means of crushing them. Poverty, hunger, over-population, unemployment and above all, complete injustice can be and have historically been causes of ‘terrorism’. There’s no point in going to war with terrorism, because you are likely to only exacerbate the root cause.

Then there’s pure crime. Criminals blow up buildings and buses. You can’t go to war with criminals either. You have to bring them to justice.

By idea, I mean an ideology. Al Qaeda definitely has an ideology. There has been a lot written on Al Qaeda, who they are, what they believe in and why they hate the west, so I’ll not go into all that now. Their stupidity is also in the belief that they can change the US through violent acts. They can’t, and nor will the US change them through violence.

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By drbhelthi, January 10, 2010 at 9:53 am Link to this comment

Good show, R.D., rave on, rave on. Til 2012, or whenever.

What separates the white smocks from the blue smocks on any mental ward? Group opinion of the more powerful group.

Each person who comments on Truthdig supports accuracy, honesty and truth . . . in each´s idiosyncratic way. Especially the propagandistic scapegoater-types.

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By ardee, January 10, 2010 at 5:41 am Link to this comment

drbhelthi, January 9 at 2:51 pm #

Hello “Junior” !  Right. GHWBSr. The NAZI spy. I will try to dig up the foto and publish the link. Ardee, the “jewish propagandist” can probably find it faster than I can. She is one smart cookie with many connections. Too bad she is on the side of the propagandists. She would be a real asset on the side of purveyors of truth.

Post one single illustration of my “jewish propaganda”, just one, Ill wait here…........

I, unlike you, am on the side of truth and sanity. I ,also like you, have a pair of balls between my legs and a chromosomal pair of the XY variety, thus making me a male. What you are, as provable by almost every single one of your shrieking, almost incomprehensibly paranoid and plot filled rants, is amtter for a mental health professional…..

Still awaiting this proof of the “propaganda”  you , in your sad little made up world, accuse me of posting.

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By drbhelthi, January 9, 2010 at 10:51 am Link to this comment

Hello “Junior” !  Right. GHWBSr. The NAZI spy. I will try to dig up the foto and publish the link. Ardee, the “jewish propagandist” can probably find it faster than I can. She is one smart cookie with many connections. Too bad she is on the side of the propagandists. She would be a real asset on the side of purveyors of truth.

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By BR549, January 9, 2010 at 7:11 am Link to this comment

drbhelthi, January 9 at 5:02 am

Identified as CIA chief by a letter to J. Edgar Hoover shortly after the JFK murder,
he was photographed standing beside the door of the book depository just after
the fatal shots. That’s GHWB, correct? Boy I’d like to see that photo.

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By ardee, January 9, 2010 at 5:47 am Link to this comment

Marshall mails it in..or perhaps we are seeing a vacation substitute.

Usually his posts are models of poisonous yet subtle distortions of truth and fact. These responses to firefly however are simply clumsy alterations of the views expressed by that worthy.

Hurry back Marshall, decoding your ideological fairy tales was a chief source of amusement.

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By drbhelthi, January 9, 2010 at 1:02 am Link to this comment

BR549. “Junior”, Can you still be reached via br549? With
your breadth of knowledge, accuracy and outspokenness, it is
no wonder that you did not last long in official, political
hanky-panky. I fail to see significant differences in the
direction the Reprobate and the Demogogue parties are
steering the USofA. Since both are manipulated by israeli PR
systems and strategically-placed israeli moles, both are
leading to USA destruction, while transferring dollars and
defenses to “israel”. See Truthdig, Dionne, Squandered
Decade, beginning with Robert, January 8 at 9:27 pm., ref:
Dov Zakheim. Such moles pervade US Gov., while AIPAC
manipulates via its PR machine.

As far as alleged “terrorism” is concerned, the chronicles of
Chip Tatum, other former CIA agents who got out and went
straight (til their colleagues assassinated them), and the
chronicles of Ted Gunderson identify the real terrorists. 
The movement was shifted into “Drive” when GHWBushSr
secretively took over control of the CIA. Identified as CIA
chief by a letter to J. Edgar Hoover shortly after the JFK
murder, he was photographed standing beside the door of the
book depository just after the fatal shots. Does anyone know
if Lee Harvey Oswald was still drinking a coke downstairs by
the coke machine when he was arrested?  Shabby treatment of a
long-term, faithful CIA agent. But, which each and every CIA
agent can expect. Among all the gobbly-gook they are told,
none are told, “we are hiring you as an expendible.”  The
NAZIs in the US, such as Allen Dulles, launched the boat with
“Operation Paper Clip,” just prior to the end of WWII.  The
result was the transfer of NAZI HQ from Berlin to essentially
DC and other locations such as Huntsville. We are
experiencing their unification with NAZI-types in Israel.

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By BR549, January 8, 2010 at 5:57 pm Link to this comment

firefly, January 8 at 3:58 pm

“Try arguing with a Republican as an example. They are a pig-headed lot and
certainly won’t change their archaic ideas with aggression.”

Boy, did you ever nail that one!

I prefer to call it the “Chicken Little Party”.

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By Marshall, January 8, 2010 at 5:33 pm Link to this comment

By firefly, January 8 at 7:03 pm #

I’m assuming this means you believe we should not confront AQ with a “warlike
mentality”, but some kind of appeasement.  Are you suggesting an outstretched
hand, financial aid, maybe a peace treaty?  I’m not really sure what this non-
warlike approach to dealing with a terrorist group would consist of so i’m
curious about your suggested policy.

You say we can’t be “at war with an idea”, but there was something very
concrete about 9/11.  That was no idea, and explaining AQ as such to the
families of the 9/11 victims or the people on plane in the recent close call will
probably not go down well.

From your writing so far, I suspect you blame the US for AQ’s existence, and
probably the entire set of problems in that region and believe that their violent
actions against us are some kind of payback that we deserve.  If i’m wrong,
then i fail to see how treating it as simply an idea would address the problem.

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By liecatcher, January 8, 2010 at 4:36 pm Link to this comment

Cheney in Winter   Posted on Dec 30, 2009 By Eugene
Robinson
TO: firefly, January 8 at 3:58 pm

Hey firefly:
May I suggest that we the people who actually live in
America are obsessed with:
keeping our jobs
keeping our homes
paying down out credit cards
buying medication for perpetual “diseases”
putting food on the table
numbing ourselves against reality with “reality” TV
waiting for Bush3 to keep his promises

“America’s obsession with war, is what causes the
problems
in the first place. Why does everything have to be a
war on something?
A war on drugs, a war on terror, a war on healthcare,
a war on poverty…. etc.”

IMO, the answer is because “war” is easy to sell
using the fear factor
along with shock & awe as well as with control of
mainstream media.
The beneficiaries are the MILITARY INDUSTRIAL CONSPIRACY & GOVERNMENT SACHS and they therefore make it happen. It’s no coincidence that the
U.S. MIC is the largest arms dealer in the world.

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By firefly, January 8, 2010 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment

Marshall,

I never suggested ‘ignoring’ terrorism. My point was simply that addressing all problems in the world with a warlike mentality isn’t necessarily the best way to go about resolving problems.

America has an intrinsically ‘aggressive’ mentality to addressing global problems, and the Republicans in particular (Dick Cheney!) seem to have a passion for dropping bombs on the rest of humanity, which in my opinion makes them no better than any terrorist. But trying to convince him of that fact, is like trying to convince bin Laden that blowing up aeroplanes doesn’t make him very popular.

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By Marshall, January 8, 2010 at 1:34 pm Link to this comment

By firefly, January 8 at 3:58 pm #

Well aside from your blatant partisanship which demonstrates the very intractable
qualities you rail against about republicans, your point about using the term “war”
is an often heard (left) criticism of US foreign policy.  The fact is that whatever you
call it, it doesn’t change the fact that it has to be confronted.  At the risk of
wasting time on a non-serious discussion, i’d ask you how exactly you think
ignoring terrorism will make it go away?

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By firefly, January 8, 2010 at 11:58 am Link to this comment

The idiocy is not that Obama doesn’t realize that there is a ‘war on terror’ on. It’s the notion that you can be at war with a handful of criminals that are disbursed far and wide across the globe.

America’s obsession with war, is what causes the problems in the first place. Why does everything have to be a war on something? A war on drugs, a war on terror, a war on healthcare, a war on poverty…. etc.

Al Qaeda is an ideology a bit like Republicanism. You can’t be at war with an idea. And the more aggressive you become about the idea, the more intractable it becomes. Try arguing with a Republican as an example. They are a pig-headed lot and certainly won’t change their archaic ideas with aggression. You have to appeal to their better instincts. Same goes for Al-Qaeda.

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By Marshall, January 6, 2010 at 3:44 am Link to this comment

By DieDaily, January 3 at 2:32 am #

Not denying human rights abuses at Gitmo - i’m denying that they were systemic. 
They’ve been investigated and guilty parties dealt with, so that issue is settled. 
Bush condemned them as well so you’re just making false statements.

Obama has not halted extraordinary rendition so you’re wrong about him denying
it as non-compliant with Geneva.  He also maintained the Bush position on the
rendition lawsuit brought by gitmo detainees.

So i’m not really sure what point you were trying to make.

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By gerard, January 5, 2010 at 2:13 pm Link to this comment

Question:  Does the arrowhead imply the machine-gun?
Does the volcano imply the Abomb?  If not, how do you know?  If so, what is the choice?

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By katsteevns, January 4, 2010 at 8:55 am Link to this comment

Cheney is only helping Barrack and the president knows it. Otherwise, the media would simply ignore Cheney’s tirades. It works because Cheney’s rants sway media discourse in a direction AWAY from the real concerns of the citizenry and TOWARDS endless war talk, playing upon our fears of the boggeymen we are birthing in the Mideast.

And why aren’t Cheney and Bush,Jr. in jail? And why do you all stand by watching and pretending you can not stop it?

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By Phillip, January 3, 2010 at 8:45 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

So liecatcher and Taowalker are you trying to tell us that Cheney has a designer vagina?  I always wondered about Cheney’s relationship with Rumsfeld and thought it was anal. Who would have guessed?  I guess when you steal as much money as he has over the last 40 years you can afford anything you want. I guess there is more to shooting a man in the face than he let onto in the FOX news interview.

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By BR549, January 3, 2010 at 6:34 pm Link to this comment

ocjim,
Speaking as a former long-term Republican having fallen from the party’s grace out of disgust, and having voted for Obama, how have any of the circumstances around Gore’s or Kerry’s illegal job reassignments changed relative to the lying that is going on right now?

Copenhagen’s recent ClimateGate scandal is just one issue going back at least as far as Reagan, with his REX84 Alpha program and it’s bastard children, FEMA and Homeland Security; yet more charades to extort money from the taxpayers in pursuit of a shadowed agenda. And after Reagan, we had SIX administrations hell bent in a race for us to adopt this NWO program that would ultimately wrest our Constitution from being our Law of the Land and force us into a socialist, if not an outright communistic state. It sounds a bit over the top, I know; I mean, how could we ever believe that our elected officials would get involved in such a thing, but one need only start looking at the buried Annex of the Treaty to see what the IMF really had in store for the USA. First it was the adoption of the Patriot Act, then the suspension of Posse Comitatus, which then allowed for the build up of military forces on US soil other than the National Guard, and the growing number of detention centers being constructed with monies most Americans thought was going toward FEMA preparedness. Where do you want me to stop? The list goes on. At every step of the way, we lost civil liberties and these clowns in office continued to vote for it to happen, well too many of them, anyway.

The fact that Republicans happened to be recently named in a CIA driven blackmail program to provide Thai children for sex to US officials on trips to Asia says nothing about the equal level of corruption on the Democratic side. It’s the same coin, both sides of which got dropped in the same large bucket of shit.

These petty party alignments, this bickering over McCain/Palin vs. Obama/Biden makes no difference, not when they all have the same agenda in mind ......

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By liecatcher, January 3, 2010 at 4:56 pm Link to this comment

I kid you not Tao Walker.
I included a definition for those who only know the
vernacular terms.

http://www.vaginaverite.com/vagcosmeticsurg1.html
public: anatomy, health & wellbeing: female genital
cosmetic surgery, designer vaginas?  Sunday,
January 3, 2010  

“So, while many women don’t know what their own
vagina looks like, much less
what others look like, women getting cosmetic surgery
to make theirs look better??
Who knew? I really shouldn’t be surprised—we do
noses, face-lifts, foreheads,
breasts, lips—right, lips.”


Main Entry: va·gi·na
Pronunciation: \v?-?j?-n?\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural va·gi·nae \-(?)n?\  or
va·gi·nas
: a canal in a female mammal that leads from the
uterus to the external
orifice opening into the vestibule between the labia
minora

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By ocjim, January 3, 2010 at 4:52 pm Link to this comment

Cheney is the worst of the worst. The only reason he runs roughshod over the truth is because the media and the people permit it. Not just lying but serial lying is encouraged by the corporate media and even treated as opinion. Why? Because it sells to the audience. And the audience is so polarized and so dumbed-down that lying is a tactic in not only the leadership of Republican spokespeople but also Republican campaigns.

When lies are an accepted mainstay of any kind of communication, real debate is useless because the side with the real argument is outshone by the unrestrained propaganda techniques of the other.

It is part of the reason that Shrub won over Gore and Kerry. Both Gore and Kerry won the debates but lost to the permitted and accepted propaganda of the Bush campaigns.

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By GW=MCHammered, January 3, 2010 at 4:20 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Address this Ms. Bu$hCo.
This terror is all your doing:

Living on Nothing but Food Stamps
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/us/03foodstamps.htm
l?pagewanted=all

“About one in 50 Americans now lives in a household
with a reported income that consists of nothing but a
food-stamp card.”

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By BR549, January 3, 2010 at 2:11 pm Link to this comment

TAO Walker,
Nice piece at 3:17. Much to ponder.

My concern is that while the W.A.S.P. (at least the A.S.) part of my ethnicity,
must have at some point lived as you point out, I fear that it was so long ago
that the majority of my brethren have by now bred any genes of a symbiotic
nature out of their pool. They are so out of touch with nature and it reminds
me of that 1960 Playhouse 90 production of “Alas Babylon”, where people were
fighting over that last loaf of bread in the grocery store.

That is the price of specialization, particularly when the host no longer
recognizes the sacrifices that individuals make to bring an organism to a
higher level of functionality. It is abandonment of the highest order.

Anyway, nice piece.

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By TAO Walker, January 3, 2010 at 1:42 pm Link to this comment

It might ease liecatcher’s well-intentioned anxiety, about our reaching-out to the domesticated peoples, to know it is being done from firm Ground and a safe distance.  Those of our tame Sisters and Brothers obsessed with the kinds of things s/he mentioned below don’t have any idea we’re even around anymore, anyhow.

Designer vaginae, eh…..really?!?!

Hokahey!

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By Paul J. Theis, January 3, 2010 at 1:06 pm Link to this comment

Allow me to translate Mr. Cheney for you: “I am upset that President Obama did not decide to treat the terror suspect as a war criminal, including considering the possible use of torture in order to obtain more intelligence about al Qaeda in Yemen.”

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By liecatcher, January 3, 2010 at 12:59 pm Link to this comment

TO TAO Walker, January 3 at 3:17 pm
” We do encourage them to overcome it, however,
because we could sure use some
help in the fulfillment of Humanity’s Organic
Function within our Mother Earth’s Living
Arrangement, as vitally active components in her
natural immune system. “

Hey TAO Walker :
Are you sure it’s safe & wise to reach out to white
folks.
The women eschew Mother Nature.
Breasts & breast implants are used to bait a
different kind of trap,
& rarely used for feeding the young.
Natural childbirth is becoming rarer in favor of c-
section extractions.
Vaginal deliveries are also surgical the incisions
are standard, but
the anesthesia chosen varies, although most opt for
wake me when
it’s over.
And finally, with designer vaginas the latest craze,
what kind of a
Mother Earth Mother would she be?

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By TAO Walker, January 3, 2010 at 11:17 am Link to this comment

Knowing nothing else, it is only to be expected the domesticated peoples have no ‘handle’ on their CONdition, as-such.  So the good-faith diagnoses offered by posters here, of the debilitating effects of its various symptoms, suffer all-alike from a glaring lack of actual perspective….and a glut of make-believe “dichotomies” set-out as bait, by damned fools, as cheap imitation plastic substitutes for what this Old Man’s GreatGrandMother likes to call “The Real Tobacco Chew.”

Socrates, for instance, cops-to being enslaved to “the monetary system,” but believes that is so because it is the only life-sustaining “option” available to inmates of the “civilization” CONtraption….rather than being able to recognize that Hobson’s choice as being just the only one (and a false one at-that) among many such DEAD END “deals” offered by the command-and-CONtrol regime itself.  So to prolong the agony of captivity and enjoy as much as they can stand of their increasingly miserable half-lives, Socrates and others bow to the dictates of their tormentors and accept resignedly their own at-least partly self-inflicted institutionalized degradation.

Meantime, the real viable alterNative is allowed into the “global” house-of-smoke-and-mirrors only as an object of scorn and derision (or sometimes as romantically-portrayed impossibility) in the form of CONsistently negative “press”.  Sophisticates and simple-folk alike stay CONvinced true organic freedom is at-best a thing-of-the-past, no longer available to “modern” industrialized “individuals,” and unavoidably compromised-away in the inescapable trade-offs between supposedly unimaginable (or at-least “unacceptable”) hardship and the varying degrees of cold “comfort” and crippling CONveniences that are the stock-in-trade of “the marketplace,” like flush toilets, central heating, and overstuffed furniture….not to mention corrupt politics, habitat destruction, and rampant disease.  Somewhere deep inside, however, there persists at-least a suspicion among our tame Sisters and Brothers that “Live Free or Die” is not just a quaint “revolutionary” motto, but is in-fact a simple statement of the “bottom-line” of Human Life….one ignored or rejected at great peril and dead-certain pain.

No one here in Indian Country “blames” homo domesticus for being in that terminal CONdition, even though they do all effectively CONsent to it in one way or another.  We do encourage them to overcome it, however, because we could sure use some help in the fulfillment of Humanity’s Organic Function within our Mother Earth’s Living Arrangement, as vitally active components in her natural immune system.  Escaping captivity and recovering our natural Organic Form of Tiyoshpaye is The Medicine to cure all that ails them, and heal Earth of the effects of our tormentors’ intended-to-be-fatal assault on Her natural organic integrity, too.   

Is the pretend “privilege” of pissing and shitting in your drinking water, like so much livestock, really preferable to the whole life of free wild Human Beings?  Take it from one of the the latter who is quite familiar with the CONsequences of the former, there really is a better Way to BE.

It’s not (yet) out-of-reach, either.

HokaHey!

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By Phillip, January 3, 2010 at 9:06 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Cheney has never put his country first.  He could have served in Viet Nam but opted out 5 times because it wasn’t convenient.  He spends way too much time at AEI listening to the likes of Michael Ledeen, Paul Wolfowitz and Scooter Libby who all put the interests of Israel above those of the United States.  9/11 happened on his watch and he has spent all his time since, covering his ass for his administration’s piss poor job of preventing it. I hope his next heart attack is a good one!

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By BR549, January 3, 2010 at 7:57 am Link to this comment

Spooky,
While I enjoyed the historical build up of your last post, it unfortunately reminded me of Dr. Stephen Barrett on his website, “Quackwatch”, which systematically gives spot on historical foundations to all his arguments and then builds on his audience’s increasing acceptance before finally driving his own personal vitriolic hook into place, giving nothing but total disapproval for any facet of medicine he has fails to comprehend; basically pulling a bait and switch number on his readership.

Unfortunately, hate speech, and the various forms of misinformation that lead up to that level, are examples of what happens when people are not informed. In this political day and age, with communications technology being so much on the forefront, it becomes an obligation of any government to keep its citizenry informed. It is like attending some spiritual awareness group, where the further up the ladder one “claims” to be, the less able they are to hide from their own truth. Every further step they pretend to climb only reveals more of their true nature to the world.

Treason? Hardly. I have no personal dislike of Cheney. But it was his abuse of the power that was given to him that galls me. The arrogance of the whole bunch of them, those on both sides of the aisle, who would say one thing to get elected and then wind up subverting the very parchment that allowed them opportunity to do so, is just flat out criminal. Nothing against Republicans, mind you, nor the Democrats, but without integrity, honesty and transparency, our governing system is just a big lie.

That stated, what is the average person to do when, at every attempt to bring disclosure to the table, these subverters of our Constitution either totally ignore the issue, own and or influence the mainstream media, or change the offended laws after the fact and slide under the blanket they just wove?

Treason? If someone’s spouse kept coming home late, disheveled and continually avoided their partner’s advances, sooner later the average person, devoid of any meaningful and honest communication to suggest otherwise, would start formulating some picture of what was going on. 

The lying, whether it has become fashionable or acceptable in politics, under whatever trumped up version of “national security” it has been allowed to fester, and in whatever country, only begets MORE lying and a further communications disconnect from the very people they claim to represent. And, somewhere down the line, as the lipstick shows up on the collar, and the scent of someone else’s perfume becomes increasingly more evident, at what point do we challenge that behavior? The responsibility lies first with the person living the lie, to deal with their own internal need to be untruthful, but then it becomes the necessary burden of the partner to step up to the plate and challenge the one who had broken their vow (or oath, in the political case).

An interesting dialogue from the movie, “The American President”:
Lewis Rothschild: People want leadership, Mr. President, and in the absence of genuine leadership, they’ll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone. They want leadership. They’re so thirsty for it they’ll crawl through the desert toward a mirage, and when they discover there’s no water, they’ll drink the sand.

President Andrew Shepherd: Lewis, ....... People don’t drink the sand because they’re thirsty. They drink the sand because they don’t know the difference.

Unfortunately, they are talking apples and oranges, here. While Shepherd’s reply concerned people being unable to discern the truth, Rothschild’s statement concerned people not being given enough information (or education) to formulate that truth, which brings us to the issue of blaming people for not having the information that had been intentionally denied them in the first place.

Who is the victim of negative memetics here?

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By Socrates, January 3, 2010 at 6:49 am Link to this comment

“I have tracked this concept of “disinformation” back to Anthony Gramsci, an Italian communist of the early 20th century.”

Julius Caesar paid Germanic tribes to attack Roman settlements in the north over 2,000 years ago.  Then he incited crowds in Rome by holding up a bloody shirt and unleashing patriotic rhetoric.

The truth does seem to equate with freedom.  But in my experience, free thinkers are routinely ostracized from the herd.

The “live free or die” slogan is false.  We are slaves to the monetary system in order to live, not die.

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By Ouroborus, January 3, 2010 at 4:56 am Link to this comment

Aw nuts!
Spooky-43, January 3 at 3:35 am

My post below is for ^, as if you couldn’t guess.

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By Ouroborus, January 3, 2010 at 4:54 am Link to this comment

The nature of the hate speech spread throughout
TruthDig and elsewhere leads me to believe that it is
probably part of a larger agenda by multiple anti-
American propaganda machines designed to reduce
liberty, freedom and resistance in America and
prepare the population for deliverance to the
globalist system.

Rhetorical hate speech is useless propaganda, and
when accompanied by a fatalistic attitude, it borders
on treason.
=================================================
The last part of the second to last paragraph is
where you lose me. Patriotism isn’t blind acquiescence to a government’s policies. Speaking out
against a government is NOT unAmerican; it’s as
American as apple pie. Read Thomas Jefferson.

Rhetorical hate speech? Useless propaganda? Treason?
What do you think of Limbaugh? What do you think of
Glen beck? Now there’s anti-American.
I understand enough of TAO Walker to know he’s right.
But you think he’s some quaint old blathering Indian;
that probably speaks to who you are more than
anything. Your anger, hate, and contempt comes
through loud and clear. Especially your closing
remarks.
We have some strait up whack jobs posting here; but
the majority are at least honest and I sure have my
differences; but you paint this blog in a way, that
again says; more about you than us. Happy new Year.

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By ardee, January 3, 2010 at 4:34 am Link to this comment

Marshall, January 3 at 12:11 am

The more I read your efforts the more I am convinced you are channeling Dick Cheney.

How many of these detainees were turned in for rewards. some by business allies, some in order to avenge long term family feuds?

How many were “captured” without possessing weapons, explosives or any such proof of terrorist leanings?

How many have confessed under torture and duress?

How many have had access to trials, lawyers or even the evidence against them?

Yet your screed tries and convicts them all summarily. Dude, you are slipping badly.

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By TAO Walker, January 3, 2010 at 2:55 am Link to this comment

If the “truth” about FREEDOM circulating amongst theamericanpeople, the agreed-upon “meme,” was its absolute essentialness to the health of Humanity, and that it must therefore be grounded not in any make-believe ideological or philosophical CONstruct but in our very Human Nature and its organic function within the Natural Living Arrangement of our Mother Earth, then the counterfeit semantic currency (“lies”) Spooky-43 wisely warns against below would be powerless to threaten its active presence in their lives.  Lacking such an organic basis for their “liberty,” however, and instead believing it (mistakenly) to be granted by a “god” and secured by an arrangement of abstract “principles” supposedly guaranteed by a particularly CONfigured established institutional apparatus, they are in CONstant peril of having taken-away from them what they have only by the “grace” of some relatively unaccountable “authority,” anyhow.  Thus the interminable CONtest among various factions of CONtrol freaks (as represented by the subject of this article, for example) for “managerial rights” over the machinery of “government,” and of all the electro-mechanical means for generating and mediating and selling “the-message.”

Here in Indian Country us surviving Savages know we must be free and wild to be fully Human Beings, so the spurious debate about “freedom v. security” simply can’t come-up in our councils, as it does CONstantly in those of our tame Sisters and Brothers.  Acquiescing in any degree of captivity whatsoever, for any “reason” at all, is just not an “option” for us.

That’s why we don’t consent even to supposed-to-be-compulsory membership in any “....stinkin’ torture state.”  We are not “citizens.”  The miserable half-lives of those domesticated peoples who do agree to being so defined are not acceptable to us.

Sooner or later (and certainly lately) the CONdition inevitably becomes increasingly intolerable to the CONfinees, as well….as it is doing so relentlessly here at what many are characterizing as “THE END-times.”  Homo domesticus is, both literally and figuratively, being systematically smothered by the CONtraption they’re programmed to virtually worship called “civilization.”   

There are those here who believe sincerely that their well-being depends on the competent, conscientious operation of the command-and-CONtrol apparatus set-up under the provisions of their allamerican “CONstitution.”  So their “solution” to the plethora of problematical CONditions CONfronting them these
Days (mostly not in dispute among them) revolves mainly around possible approaches to wresting the levers away-from vested interests presently manipulating the “government” for private purposes, and filling its offices instead with a more public-minded type of “individual.”  It is an understandable urge, given their completely artificial frame-of-reference, but one doomed to (probably disastrous) disappointment….because it is as fundamentally CONtrary to our Human Nature as their fear-ruled “dominance” paradigm is to Nature Herself.

There are nearly infinite gradations of captivity.  Freedom, as we all at-least sense instinctively, is absolute. 

That’s why this Old Savage is here reminding our domesticated Human Relatives that there is for us Human Beings no viable alternative to the free wild Tiyoshpaye Way.

HokaHey!

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By M Henri Day, January 3, 2010 at 1:14 am Link to this comment

«Rhetorical hate speech is useless propaganda, and when accompanied by a fatalistic attitude, it borders on treason.»

Are you suggesting, Spooky-43, that those who disagree with your view of things be tried for treason ?...

Henri

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By DieDaily, January 2, 2010 at 11:49 pm Link to this comment

So, spooky, basically you’re saying that we have the constitutional right to shut up, and the constitution gives you mystical powers of insight that let you know when an idea is a “bad meme”. Wow. The constitution I love and defend isn’t like that. Oh, well. I think you just resent how well researched those points you want to “instantly destroy” are, how factual and well evidenced. But I guess if your constitution tells you to go out and destroy every fact that doesn’t pander to your prejudices, be my guest. Happy hunting!

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By Spooky-43, January 2, 2010 at 11:35 pm Link to this comment

drbhelthi, January 2 at 6:19 pm #

“However, Goebels, NAZI chief of Propaganda in the 1930s-1940s often stated that if you repeat the same information enough, the people will eventually believe it. Goebels did not invent the idea, he just applied it”.

I have tracked this concept of “disinformation” back to Anthony Gramsci, an Italian communist of the early 20th century.  It was perfected by the communist intellectuals of the USSR under Stalin, and a Soviet governmental agency was instituted to carry the strategy out against the US.  Much of the evidence of the operation can be gleaned from the Venona transcripts, declassified about 10 years ago, along with witness of ex-KGBers and release of certain ex-Soviet documents. 

Now, today it all falls under the scientific heading of “memetics,”  which I think was named by Richard Dawkins in one of his books a while back.  Or at least he coined the term, meme, (social memory) to apply to a culturally accepted concept, true or false, which is passed person to person through the society until it is absolutely accepted.

Basically we are talking about the negative side of the meme, which is disinformation or lies which are turned into “truths” by being repeated over and over until everyone accepts them. 

If one were to research the orchestrated efforts of the Stalinists throughout the period of the 1930’s through the 1970’s, a very good case could be made for the idea that it was the dominant cause of the current problems in the USA today.  WE have come to believe all the bullshit they shoveled at us.

Patrick Henry said, “Give me liberty or give me death”.  My license plate says, “Live Free Or Die”
These indicate a desire for freedom, which is the cornerstone of the US Constitution as written by the founders.  It has also been written, “Know the Truth, and the Truth shall make you Free”

So there is a direct connection between Truth and Freedom.  They are, in fact, one and the same.

No lie, no liar can stand up to the blazing light of truth.  It is critical for a free society that the “memes” that circulate through it are absolutely true.  Propaganda (false memes) should be destroyed instantly whenever discovered, because they are anti-freedom, no different than the concept of slavery and bondage.

My irritation is that there is an overiding sense of questionable hate, helplessness, futility and give-up-itis, weaving through these threads.  When perpetuated, it spreads through the population and takes on a memetic quality. 

The whole population becomes full of hatred, helplessness, futility and they give up resistance to their loss of freedom.

Now if there is a government which would want the population to give up resistance, they would instigate these Gramscian memetic schemes, would they not? 

Now if I was against this government, what should I do?  Run around like a mad man spewing hatred and loosely substantiated government conspiracies by the thousands?  No. 

If the population hears 1000 different wildly outrageous stories about how Cheney is a criminal, it numbs them to the true story about how Cheney may have actually committed criminal acts. 

Like a good lawyer, keep your mouth shut until your case is complete.  Build the evidence on cold, hard facts which cannot be refuted, not questionable theories by the thousands, backed up by quack websites which go nowhere.  And in all cases, give up the hate speech.  What case was ever won by the chief prosecutor spewing venom all over the jury?

The nature of the hate speech spread throughout TruthDig and elsewhere leads me to believe that it is probably part of a larger agenda by multiple anti-American propaganda machines designed to reduce liberty, freedom and resistance in America and prepare the population for deliverance to the globalist system. 

Rhetorical hate speech is useless propaganda, and when accompanied by a fatalistic attitude, it borders on treason.

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By DieDaily, January 2, 2010 at 10:32 pm Link to this comment

Marshall, I’m not aware of anyone, even the worst apologists in the Obama administration that denies the human rights abuses, the secret prisons, the existence of rendition, and the non-compliance with the Geneva convention. Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and even the infernally evil Red Cross all confirm me in this. And if you think that non-Americans are less human and have fewer inherent, human rights than Americans, then you are so far gone I don’t know if we can even throw you a life preserver. It have to have miles of rope and we’d need some sort of serious launcher. You have a lot of healing to do before you can rejoin with free and loving humanity if you draw differences between the inherrent worth of different nationalities of human beings.

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By BR549, January 2, 2010 at 9:23 pm Link to this comment

Hey Marshall, c’mon. You’re kidding, right?

We have a MASSIVE foreign policy problem because corporate interests covet
foreign resources and need some way to “legitimize” the theft of them. We
didn’t initiate that violation; we just carried on what Britain, Spain, and France
had taught us was successful over the centuries. The difference was, now, that
the USA was large enough to become the schoolyard bully ..... and no one
could say otherwise.

So, we have this problem. Well, we had a marvelous opportunity to at least
create an illusion of diligence, and we blew it. Had our intentions been about
bin-Laden, we would have been out of their long ago, but it never was. It was
about establishing a gas line corridor east of Iran and to also surround Iran
from as many sides as possible. Heck, bin-Laden was never, at any point,
added to any Most Wanted list.

If you look into John Foster Dulles’ fear-mongering mindset, and then add to
that his brother Allen’s having been head of the CIA and then head of United
Fruit, it is easy to see why Central American countries’ native population didn’t
particularly like having their lands taken away to provide cheap bananas for the
American market. And if some head of state doesn’t buy into this abuse, they
have some mysterious accident happen if they weren’t lucky enough to just
have a CIA staged coup toss them out into exile somewhere.

So, what could Obama have done? He could have just stuck to his word, what
he had said he was going to do, and the rest of the world would have joined in
support of and helped thwart any further aggressive Islamic response. But how can we address the corporations’ desire to maintain the level of volatility if we’re
at the same time taking of peace? To say that we have to deal
with terrorism because it is there, totally ignores the fact that we created damn
near all of the response we are getting from these countries. It’s the only way
they know how to fight back.

This fact alone is like a husband and wife fighting back and forth. He keeps
hitting her and then wonders why she loathes his existence and wants a
divorce. She gets back at him any way she can. If it isn’t spitting in his coffee,
it’ll be cutting off his weiner, as in the case of John Wayne Bobbitt, or just
shooting the bastard in his sleep, as in the case of Donna Ordway many years
ago. Either way, we reap what we sow, and our foreign policy, for a nation so
rich and so capable of setting up examples of stewardship, is deplorable.

As long as WE continue this FIGHT, and continue to point the finger of blame
toward people who feel themselves to be freedom-fighters in their own nation,
we will N-E-V-E-R win.  It just isn’t going to happen. And as long as people in
this country keep raising their hackles or cower in abject fear every time some
idiot tries to set his underwear on fire in an airplane, we’re screwed and the
banking interests, who’ve been fueling both sides of this conflict, keep coming
out the winners.

The suspension of Habeus Corpus for these detainees was not against the
detainees; it was to gauge the American public’s response to having Habeus
Corpus removed for all American citizens in the future. I thought that was obvious enough.

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By Marshall, January 2, 2010 at 8:11 pm Link to this comment

By brewerstroupe, December 30, 2009 at 9:34 pm #

“Do you really expect that people held for years without benefit of trial and
subjected to torture would gain respect for America and its allies?”

Our standing among enemy combatants is of no importance to me. 
Preventing terror attacks is.  This isn’t a popularity contest, it’s an ideological
terror campaign against civil society and is not simply a criminal matter.

“If you wish to prevent Gitmo detainees from “returning to the battlefield” re-
invigorated with disgust at America upon release, I suggest you execute them.”

We don’t execute enemy combatants, but we can lock them up permanently and
should do so if they’re determined to be a threat.  Worrying about what they
“tell their friends” is liberal guilt, not effective policy.

“that line has already been crossed by anyone who sanctions the suspension of
Habeus Corpus and the plethora of Human Rights violations that Gitmo
represents.”

Habeus Corpus is for US citizens which these aren’t.  There’s been no proven
systemic violation of human rights at gitmo, only isolated instances common to
any detention facility - none of which indict the concept, only the perpetrators.

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By liecatcher, January 2, 2010 at 2:36 pm Link to this comment

To TAO Walker:

The only good news I’ve seen lately, which disappeared
in a flash, was about several tribes,progeny of those
genocided by the early settlers, buying thousands of acres of land in several states so that they can return
to the land, become self-sufficient again & perhaps
avoid what the future will bring to the progeny of the
genociders.

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By drbhelthi, January 2, 2010 at 2:19 pm Link to this comment

Why would any intelligent journalist or reporter expect an improvement in Cheney´s deportment! Or, place realistic value any of his comments?

No, repeating information will not make it accurate. However, Goebels, NAZI chief of Propaganda in the 1930s-1940s often stated that if you repeat the same information enough, the people will eventually believe it. Goebels did not invent the idea, he just applied it. It worked for the NAZIs in Germany. It worked for the Bush family in the US. It worked with the poor and oppressed during the Hussein Obama campaign. When has a senate seat or the US presidency been won via realistic promises?  Make yourself look like a hometown boy and promise the hometown folk what they want to hear, get elected, then do as you please - at their expense. 

Is there a vast difference between Goebels and Cheney? Other than that Goebels may have been a little less money crazy? Why would Cheney not continue to apply the idea of repetition of information, when it has consistently worked for him? Where is he now, instead of being locked up in prison, while some dumbass folk are seeking his opinion and paying him big bucks for it?  Is he on the list for a Nobel Prize in the near future?

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By TAO Walker, January 2, 2010 at 12:00 pm Link to this comment

This Old Indian doesn’t presume to ‘speak’ for others here, but Spooky-43 is much mistaken lumping us surviving free wild Human Beings in with any “....citizens of a democratic republic.”  We have no interest whatsoever in trying to “fix” the catastrophically failing machinery of the now “global” stress-to-destruct test sometimes referred-to (myopically) as “theamericanexperiment.”  We’ve been on the shitty-end of that shtick since it was first poked into the Sunrise side of Turtle Island, and are under no illusions about its actual motives and methods….as differentiated-from all the pretty propaganda.

If Spooky-43 feels so strongly, however, about the need to “do something….” in the way of tinkering, to lessen some of the increasingly intolerable effects of the Contraption’s supposed malfunctions, s/he ought to just go ahead and give it a go.  We’ll keep-on accepting the ‘chances’ given to us within the Living Arrangement of our Mother Earth, within the Song ‘n’ Dance of Life Herownself….staying both ready and able to help some of our captive Sisters and Brothers out of the wreckage. 

Maybe there are those tame two-leggeds just born to be guinea-pigs, though.  If the straight-jacket fits….... 

HokaHey!

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By thecrow, January 2, 2010 at 9:31 am Link to this comment

Just tell us what blew the Pentagon clocks off the wall at 9:32 and the rest will follow. Unburden yourself, Dick. You’ll feel better and maybe cut a few links off that massive karmic chain you’ve made for yourself.

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/12/18/clock-stoppers/

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By thecrow, January 2, 2010 at 9:25 am Link to this comment

“the architect of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks”

You mean this guy, Mr. Robinson?

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/05/29/wake-up-show/

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By Socrates, January 2, 2010 at 9:01 am Link to this comment

BR549—nice writing.  Good points.

Spooky-43—You present a great foil for someone like me.  You seem burned out.  But that’s OK with me.  I’m burned out too.  Besides, who cares?

Some posters are spitting out venom.  I do not think I am spitting out vemon.  The reason is that I have come to embrace the Hindu concept of “maya.”  It means that everything is nothing.  Nothing is real.  This short punctuation in everlasting nonexistence is just a dream.  You may not understand or agree and that’s OK too.

The great coup de taut occured when the CIA with NWO encouragement murdered president Kennedy and secured the reigns of power for themselves.  Why should people like us “get off our asses” when there is nothing we can do about it?  Like Siddhartha, we sit on the riverbank, watch the water pass by, and type our thoughts.  Don’t worry.  It’s OK.

There isn’t any “left” or “right.”  The politicians are NWO puppets and as such, pathological thieves.  The Republican and Democrat memes are nothing.  They all stick, stink, and steal together.

The people who post comments here are special in a positive sense.  Most people everywhere today are zombiefied.  They are dead.  They are not us.

Check it out dude.

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By BR549, January 2, 2010 at 6:35 am Link to this comment

Spooky-43
While people can, the internet is a fast method of reaching millions of people,
even if this thread is temporarily constrained to this small group. It is the
spread of ideas that used to pass by word of mouth and the occasional
underground printing on parchment paper that we are now able to do between
getting out of bed and heading to the toilet, often receiving answers by the
time we get dressed for work.

Obama’s having even initiated a vehicle to shut down the internet only proves
one thing, that the circumstances aren’t yet ripe enough to do so. He would
first have to suspend the Constitution and for that to happen he would need yet
another false flag operation.

Were his intentions honorable from the start, our country would have
addressed the real terrorists here, those in Washington, who have over the last
100 years and more, continually chose to violate other countries’ sovereignty
and then blame THEM for any response they may take against us by calling
THEM “terrorists”. Nothing has changed. Since we are still chasing “terrorists”
abroad, it only proves that Washington has no intention of finding the truth ....
about anything, really.

Venom? Perhaps, but perhaps you could enlighten us. Should we all go out and
buy guns? Many people have. Do we get riled up enough to vote for change?
Look what the hell happened the last time the people tried to do that. Soros,
Rokefeller and that ilk just got out the 55 gallon of drums of Vaseline and, well,
here we are, including YOU. The banking cartel and the Jewish lobbies are only
going to give their stamp of approval to some hand picked weiner like Obama,
someone who looks good on paper, if he is either corrupt, corruptible, or has a
history enough to be blackmailed. How the hell do you think he got into office,
because he used to be a Constitutional lawyer?

So, while the corporatocracy has eviscerated any meaningful output from the
mainstream media and turned the average American mind to mush, watching
American Idol and spectator sports, this venue, along with a growing list of
others, is how we are able to communicate .... at least while we can. When the
circumstances make it such that Obama (or the next morally deficient idiot) has
enough of an excuse to “pull the plug”, then we will be left in the dark and
those who have taken on the job of “security” will be the only ones having
efficient means of communication.

At least this venue allows people to hear and be heard, while we can. So unless,
YOU are willing to get off YOUR ass and help connect missing dots for people,
in your family and neighborhood, down the street at the cafe, and potentially
put yourself in harm’s way in order to get the word out, please don’t sit in your
BarcoLounger and preach to the rest of us about being ineffective.

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By Bud, January 2, 2010 at 4:57 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Dick Cheney is the personification of EVIL!My fondest desire for 2010 is to have all the hair on Dick Cheney’s ass turn to fish hooks.

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By DieDaily, January 2, 2010 at 12:45 am Link to this comment

Aww, poor spooky, you’re “everything’s a conspiracy theory” shtick not working? Citing the constitution now? Typing on your little keyboard about how futile typing on your little keyboard is? Oh, great warrior, can we expect fewer dis-info posts from you now? You’ll be too busy defending the constitution out on the streets? We can but pray it is so.

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By Ouroborus, January 2, 2010 at 12:27 am Link to this comment

Spooky-43, January 2 at 4:16 am

At which temple do we go to worship such a wonderful,
knowledgeable person as yourself?

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By Spooky-43, January 2, 2010 at 12:16 am Link to this comment

I don’t know why I felt obligated to read this whole thread from top to bottom.  It was the biggest waste of time of late.

The same old people spitting the same old venom, over, and over and over.  Not one good idea or positive statement about anything at all, just straight venom.

The left is already spent.  All they ever had was hatred.  But the population at large is now seeing the reality of the left’s lack of vision, total incompetence, and inability to generate any kind of support for anything at all. 

The great American Constitution requires much more of its citizens than merely spewing hatred towards each and every administration that comes along. 

Old Indians now give their war cry by typing it on their little keyboard along with snippy, hateful words gimmicked up to appear worldly, yet have that folksy quality. 

It is all meaningless bullshit generated to give an illusion that the writer is engaged somehow. 

Where are the real warriors?  Where are the real patriots?  The ones who get off their ass and do something besides bitch at everything that ever happens.  It is a pathetic showing, to say the least. 

The citizens of a democratic republic get the exact leadership that they deserve, but they like to claim they are victims of criminals that have stolen power because it is easier to do that then actually force the system to work by getting off their ass and working at it.

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By DieDaily, January 2, 2010 at 12:11 am Link to this comment

Yeah, I don’t go for capital punishment, even for Cheney (temped, yes!). When we win, we shouldn’t shoot the globalist fascists. Instead we should create a vast network of zoos. The children could go to the zoo and feed peanuts to them. Since they tend to be pedophiles, we would need a double-set of bars. This would be better than killing them. Infinitely better.

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By liecatcher, January 1, 2010 at 11:38 pm Link to this comment

Cheney uses the big lie because it’s part of the
fascist protocol, along with misinformation, divide &
conquer,disinformation, red herrings, & fecal vomiting
which you are expert at.

He is not seeking redemption or trying to rewrite
history, just enjoys mindfucking people.

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By coco, January 1, 2010 at 5:42 pm Link to this comment

Cheney’s best defense for his crimes during the Bush administrations is to stay on the offense. Just like right wing radio and television such as Fox. Their best offense will be to keep the country as unorganized and separated as possible. Their not Americans, their criminals.

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By M Henri Day, January 1, 2010 at 3:26 pm Link to this comment

For my part, BR549, I am opposed to capital punishment - even though I must admit that my convictions are sorely tried by cases like that of Mr Cheney. But from what I understande, Rudolf Hess’s old cell att Spandau - in which he lived to the ripe old age of 93, so the catering must have been good - is presently unoccupied ; perhaps it’s roomy enough there to hold Dick and Dubya and Tony and a few others of that happy crowd - wouldn’t want them to get lonely !...

Henri

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By BR549, January 1, 2010 at 3:16 pm Link to this comment

I just think that the image of seeing them all hanging by a rope would go a long
way toward redeveloping the faith and trust in this country that Cheney was so
eager to destroy.

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By M Henri Day, January 1, 2010 at 3:01 pm Link to this comment

As Thukydides observed long ago, FlamingLib, «Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must». So long as the US Empire doesn’t collapse utterly, Richard Bruce Cheney’s impunity from prosecution is likely to last. He can probably even visit Europe without fear ; as the latest Nobel Peace Prize shows, here we are still chained to the Emperor’s chariot….

Henri

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By James M. Martin, January 1, 2010 at 2:38 pm Link to this comment

Cheney is rubbing salt into the wounds of those of us who thought that this warmongering hawk committed war crimes both in the lead up to, and prosecution of the invasion of Iraq. He just won’t go away.  He has to put in his two cents on everything that transpires.  The trouble is, it is the same old neocon bull that marked the eight years Mr. Cheney was President.  I hope the voters at the midterm will see the GOP for what it is: ditto heads for Cheneyism.  I think it is a shame this s.o.b. has eluded trial for his violations of both international treaties and our own Bill of Rights.  It will be a shame to see him attain biological amnesty—the prick has already had three known heart attacks.

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By sdemetri, January 1, 2010 at 2:29 pm Link to this comment

Cheney is speaking to the narratives that have been circulating in right-wing media, and
among his base supporters for much of the past decade, and created largely by his own
efforts. What Obama does or doesn’t do, says or doesn’t say, has little relation to what
Cheney says or does. Cheney’s narratives are what is important to himself, the right, and
the poorly informed and educated that buy Cheney’s blather. And in spite of all the
instances where Obama has essentially carried over Bush policies into his own
administration, and they are significant, especially with regards to Justice Department,
National Security, and Defense policies, Cheney of course ignores Obama, and is talking to
his own narratives with an eye on his ilk regaining power and continuing down the
disastrous road set by himself, Rumsfeld, Perle, Wolfowitz, et al, under a weak, compliant,
incompetent Bush as president.

Cheney is seeking to set up a resurgence of the type of rule we have had under Bush… the
same power grab under a largely self-manufactured threat of terror, dubbed a “global
war.”

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By lesleypalmer, January 1, 2010 at 2:26 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Cheney is a fascist provacateur.  He wants to ensure that his choice for President of the United States is a neo-con dictator. It is interesting that one commentator invoked Churchill as a possible model for Cheney’s potential comeback. It is possible, given the skittishness of the American public, that Cheney may succeed in his ambitions if terrorists pull off another 9-11. Another commentator remarked that Cheney’s health problems may have pushed him over the edge into dementia. It is always amusing to read comments that try to marginalize and diminish people using the mental illness card.  Cheney is as mentally ill as a fox.  Don’t minimize the damage this ex-Vice President can do.  With Republican leadership in disarray, Cheney is broadcasting his bonafides, in the interest of himself or his tyrannical comrades.

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By Maggie in Maine, January 1, 2010 at 1:55 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Excellent take on the Prince of Fear and Darkness with the exception of the reference to the homeless, many of who are homeless because of a cruel and inhumane ideology of greed and selfishness espoused by Cheney and his band of not so merry supporters ranting and raving on the right-wing of the political spectrum.  Cheney, like his followers, suffers from an extreme case of paranoia and resentment. The fact that there is a brilliant black man in the Oval Office who was elected fairly and squarely is more than these folks can stand having already stolen the two previous elections. Cheney, a three time draft dodger and Yale drop-out is a demagogue and as history has shown, previous demagogues like Fr. Coughlin etal, along with the talk radio and Fox tv bloviators of today eventually fade out from the scene, but tragically only after they have caused a great deal of trouble in already deeply polarized nation. As for the former VP, this country will be far better off when he no longer is able to snarl and growl the tripe and lies which continue to poison any hope of civil discourse. As they used to say on Saturday Night Live, “Dick Cheney is now part of the axis of evil.”

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By samosamo, January 1, 2010 at 1:53 pm Link to this comment

By Jerry B., January 1 at 4:09 pm

I’m hoping for a heart attack or stroke for the incredibly hateful
persona of dick.

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By seektruth, January 1, 2010 at 12:50 pm Link to this comment

Somebody in the mainstream media needs to address an issue that seems to be out-of-bounds—that is, the state of Cheney’s mental faculties.  He has had serious heart problems since his early 40s, and several “incidents,” each of which could have compromised his mental functioning.  Moreover, he has suffered from atrial fibrillation for years, and according to a new study by doctors at Intermount Medical Center in Salt Lake City, people with atrial fibrillation have a 40% greater chance of developing alzheimers and other forms of vascular dementia (see article on this study at: http://www.news-medical.net/news/2009/05/17/A-link-found-between-atrial-fibrillation-and-Alzheimers-disease.aspx).

So, the real issue here is why does anyone take seriously the bellicose ramblings of an ex-VP who could very well be in the early stages of dementia (which often present as irrascibility, anger, furstration, etc.)?  We might as well just go to the local nursing home and get quotes from the patients.

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By M Henri Day, January 1, 2010 at 12:47 pm Link to this comment

Given that Mr Obama stated in his inaugural address that «Our nation is at war against a far-reaching network of violence and hatred», where is that Congressional declaration of war mandated in Article I, Section 8 of the US Constitution ? Or does Mr Obama, constitutional scholar that he is, maintain that the «Power» to declare war granted Congress by the Constitution is merely facultative, not mandatory, and that the Executive can also declare war ? I’d very much like to see the evidence for such a stand….

Henri

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By 9circlesofhell, January 1, 2010 at 12:47 pm Link to this comment

I scratch my head -and ass- every time I see or hear Bunkerman’s (Dithering Dick) name in the news.  Really, how is he relevant and what news editor is actually sitting back saying, “ah ha, now here’s some news.”

Those same editors and journalists should be compelled to walk the streets of
our nation and interview homeless people -especially Vets- and air their voices. 
After all, it’s our Vets that sacrifice life, limb, and thought for a-holes like
Cheney.

At a minimum, homeless Vets should have an equal voice in our news.

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By BR549, January 1, 2010 at 12:22 pm Link to this comment

Cheney is just one in a long line of terrorists that sooner or later will be brought
to justice ....... hopefully, it’ll wind up with him upside down at the end of a rope,
like Mussolini, .......... along with the both Bushes, both Clintons, Obama,
Rumsfeld, and the rest of that human scum that have infected Washington.

Did Hitler’s occult readers fail him? Did Mussolini ever think he would wind up
trussed up like a hog for slaughter with people spitting on him and throwing
rocks at his lifeless corpse? These people are so consumed with their own egos,
that is what will eventually bring them down; their own greed.

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By Albert Van Thournout, January 1, 2010 at 12:19 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

In my humble opinion, all of the above comments miss the essential point.  Dick Cheney understands the essentially fascist mentality of an increasingly hard core and expanding minority in this nation. He also understands that there is a ruling class, that he is part of it, and that the essential requirement of the ruling class (as with all past ruling classes) it to convnce the masses that security is much more important than freedom. To that end the media, including the likes of Eugene Robinson, makes an indispensable contribution by focusing on superficial issues of personality and totalling failing to analyze and explain what is really going on. I personally like Mr. Robinson; I think he means well, but he understands that his job depends on not appearing to be too much of a maverick.  Money talks!

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By Jerry B., January 1, 2010 at 12:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I’ve been getting this disturbing feeling that Cheney is trying to Pull a Churchill on us! Be a failure for years, Be wrong about nearly everything, and maybe something horrible enough will happen to ‘make his Inner Light’ shine through, and allow his inner demons to Terrorize the rest of us! ...Again!

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By wildflower, January 1, 2010 at 10:51 am Link to this comment

Re Robinson Comment: “Toward the end of his two-paragraph statement, Cheney goes completely off the rails and starts fulminating about how Obama is seeking “social transformation—the restructuring of American society.”

It is Cheney, of course, who is/was trying to restructure America – most preferably a Constitutional Dictatorship.  It is important that he is challenged and reminded of his crimes and betrayals every time he opens his mouth:

PRESIDENTIAL POWERS IN TIMES OF EMERGENCY: ?COULD TERRORISM RESULT IN A CONSTITUTIONAL DICTATOR? [John Dean-Findlaw.com]

Vice President Dick Cheney’s Incredible and Deadly Lie: By Deceiving a Congressional Leader, Cheney Sent Us to War on False Pretenses And Violated the Separation of Powers - as Well as the Criminal Law [John Dean-Findlaw.com]

The Misunderestimated Mr. Cheney: The Vice President’s Record of Willfully Violating the Law, And Wrongly Claiming Authority to Do So [John Dean-Findlaw.com]

Are Congressional Wars Coming? Since Cheney Has Already Said He’ll Ignore the Democratic Congress, It Seems Likely [John Dean-Findlaw.com]

Vice President Cheney and The Fight Over “Inherent” Presidential Powers: His Attempt to Swing the Pendulum Back Began Long Before 9/11 [John Dean-Findlaw.com]

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By konnie, January 1, 2010 at 9:54 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

i’ll use the same comment about his dickness that i said about my ex-mother-in-law:

THERE ISN’T A HOT ENOUGH PLACE IN HELL YET FOR HIM.
THE DEVIL IS STOKING THE FIRE, BUT IT’S JUST NOT
HOT ENOUGH YET….....

i’m sure there will be a whole dante’s ring for the
20th century born conservatives so they can share their punishment for eternity. i do so enjoy imagining what that would be…......

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By Inherit The Wind, January 1, 2010 at 8:16 am Link to this comment

Tao Walker:

You are not the savage—Dick Cheney is.  I mean that with every pejorative implication of the word “savage”.

GRYM’s advice to the dick they he keep his mouth shut is good advice.  I’m sure the dick won’t take it.  I hope he continues to blather and slips and implicates himself in the crimes I believe he committed. 

Then he should be prosecuted for them and end his days in prison, as the criminal he is.

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By tom, January 1, 2010 at 8:13 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Sick Cheney (Rasputin) is the number one reason to outlaw firearms.

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By ardee, January 1, 2010 at 6:54 am Link to this comment

Outraged, January 1 at 5:14 am

The real question is, are you simply bored or this much of an asshole?

By the by, I drive a tractor trailer.

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By Outraged, January 1, 2010 at 1:14 am Link to this comment

Re: ardee

Your comment: “This article proves two things, in my opinion. That we have a govt completely out of control and out of touch with both reality and with the best interests of our nation. Secondly, we have an author, Mr. Robinson, who is finding unending support for our current President to be an impossible task”

Why is it not surprising this is “how YOU see it”.....lol.  But yeah, sure man….. from YOUR POV, it makes perfect sense….. certainly I couldn’t refute THAT (who could).  EGAD.

So… I have to wonder, in amazement VERY TRUTHFULLY, (albeit comically)... whose side you are on…?  Personally, I have seen you engage in every sort of propagandist tactic I have ever read about…. why does that cause me to question your sincerity…..  oh…I don’t know….  LOL

Really “ardee”.... do you ENJOY your job?  Of course I’m talking about DRIVING THAT UTILITY TRUCK.  Ahem…. it makes you look less than truthful, to be KIND… but hey, I admit…... you do it in the MOST entertaining of ways… well, at least if this were Entertainment Tonight and this was Hollywood Gossip.

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By Ouroborus, January 1, 2010 at 1:10 am Link to this comment

TAO Walker, January 1 at 12:43 am

Thanks for the reply; “see” you there.

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By TAO Walker, December 31, 2009 at 8:43 pm Link to this comment

This Old Savage will look into Ouroboros’ kind invitation.  Maybe with the help of one of the GreatGrandChildren it’ll be possible to navigate to another “port” here in cyber-space.

Meantime, here’s hoping that all the sincere and conscientiously “truthdigging” people here Winter well.

Hokahey!

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By Ouroborus, December 31, 2009 at 7:54 pm Link to this comment

TAO Walker, December 30 at 9:12 pm
I post and occasionally publish on another site; I’ve
mentioned you to the owner and he asked me to extend an
invitation to you to do some writing there. I do hope
you’ll consider it; it’s an excellent, intelligent
blog. Here’s a link;

http://agonist.org/

Look forward to reading you.

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By Ouroborus, December 31, 2009 at 7:47 pm Link to this comment

Dick,
You belong in jail! If it’s true, that everything that
goes around comes around, you’re in deep shit.

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By empyrius, December 31, 2009 at 6:32 pm Link to this comment

Yeah Eugene, as other posters have noted, what is up with the insult towards our homeless sisters and brothers?!?

You may be surprised how intelligent many homeless people truly are; but often-times, when your parents are feeding you meth before the age of ten, or smoking crack with you, or abusing you in some deviant fashion, well, most often those people end up in prisons, and homeless in our streets, rather than having the opportunity of going to Harvard Law School!

But, in spite of not getting the best education money can buy, often our homeless sisters and brothers can have profound wisdom gained from the selfsame wretched lives they have lived . . .

Peace

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