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May 26, 2013
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Beyond Reasonable SuspicionPosted on May 12, 2010
“You’ve been randomly selected for a search.” These are the words I heard as I was detained by U.S. Customs and Border Protection upon my return from a recent trip to Canada. The hourlong experience was harrowing—I was asked questions about where I was born, whether English was my first language, whether I had credit cards or cash, what I do for a living, why I was traveling, where I had gone, how my traveling companion and I knew each other, and what I was carrying in my pockets, purse and luggage. I was forbidden to stand, place my hands in my pockets, make phone calls and use the restroom without asking for permission. All of this I took in stride because I figured that it was being done in the interest of national security. Certainly, an hour of my time is well spent in helping to ensure the safety of my fellow citizens. Though this was not how I envisioned I’d be spending a Sunday evening, it became a golden opportunity for me to think about and observe what would become a fiery issue exactly one month later when Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signed Senate Bill 1070 into law. As written, “the provisions of this act are intended to work together to discourage and deter the unlawful entry and presence of aliens and economic activity by persons unlawfully present in the U.S.” This law has raised many questions. Some seem straightforward, like who is considered an “alien” and how “unlawful presence” is determined. Some questions are more complex, like what counts as “reasonable suspicion,” a “practicable” situation and “reasonable attempts … to determine immigration status.” I decided to find some answers by interviewing two recent legal immigrants to Los Angeles, Susan, a 34-year-old from the United Kingdom, and Maria, a 33-year-old from Mexico. The conversation was fascinating. We talked about how Arizona dealt with the MLK holiday; Public Enemy’s now classic “By the Time I Get to Arizona,” performed to make the public aware of Arizona’s troubles with diversity, and the new song they’ve performed in protest against SB 1070 called “Tear Down That Wall”; and the state’s recent abolition of ethnic studies courses from state curricula. We moved on to criticisms they’d heard from the sports and entertainment industries, including how “Family Guy’s” Seth McFarlane is reported to have called the law a “slap in the face,” comparing the legislation to the Nazis’ tradition of requiring people to present their “papers” on demand. We discussed economic implications related to the Major League Baseball Players Association’s opposition to “this law as written” and how it “will consider additional steps necessary to protect the rights and interests of … [its] members.” We questioned whether the protest performed on Cinco de Mayo by the Phoenix Suns pro basketball team, wearing “Los Suns” on their jerseys to show solidarity with Latino communities, was effective. Then there was a heated debate about the violent and viral “Machete Trailer,” filled with A-list actors who oppose the law and its proponents (the clip currently has over 1 million YouTube hits). More political issues soon arose. While both Susan and Maria agreed that illegal immigration is a growing and important problem for the U.S. economy and security, and both support aspects of the bill that pertain to employers’ responsibility and fines, both are deeply troubled by the ethnic and racial profiling permitted by the law’s ambiguous wording. Susan described herself as a “neutral-looking person that no one’s interested in” because of her physical appearance and British accent. She doesn’t believe she would create “reasonable suspicion” but she fears for the images of all immigrants that the law creates in the minds of law enforcement officers. Maria, who called the law “an exercise in mega-discrimination,” also described herself as “neutral-looking” but definitely felt targeted by the law because of her accent and family name. “If I were in Arizona I just wouldn’t feel safe, even if I were carrying all the appropriate documents,” she said. Then there’s the issue of paperwork backlogs. Both Maria and Susan wondered what might happen when a person who raised “reasonable suspicion” is here legally but government agencies have not fully processed her or his visa paperwork. Advertisement Surprisingly, Susan and Maria disagreed on the power of the proposed boycott of Arizona businesses. Susan was in favor of it; Maria was not. Maria was very concerned that further economic recession in the state would only serve to enhance the racial, ethnic and nationalist conflicts among citizens, legal immigrants and illegal immigrants. For an expert word on the matter I turned to Dr. Ulli Ryder, a professor at Brown University’s Center for the Study of Race and Ethnicity in America. According to Ryder, “the law is unconscionable and could very well prove to be unconstitutional. It is based on the assumptions of illegality and racial and ethnic profiling.” Ryder also pointed to the nation’s history of requiring people of certain racial and ethnic groups to carry papers that proved they were allowed to move about. “For instance, the enslaved were required to carry passes that showed they had permission to travel when questioned by whites at any time. This is where we get the term passing.” Enslaved persons who looked like they were white were able to “pass” through checkpoints without producing any papers at all. This tradition continued well into the segregation era and “helped to create many divisions among multiracial and African-Americans.” Like Maria, Dr. Ryder is afraid that Latino communities will suffer the same fate in the wake of this law. So, where do we go from here? Do we grant amnesty to illegal immigrants as we did in 1986 with the Immigration Reform and Control Act? After much conversation I’m not sure that anyone really knows. One thing’s for sure: Arizona has taken a drastic step in attempting to find the answer. Perhaps now that Arizona has taken this step, it can also take Bishop Desmond Tutu’s advice and use the “opportunity to create a new model for dealing with the pitfalls, and help the nation as a whole find its way through the problems of illegal immigration.” A step in this direction might just remind all 50 states of the call sent out to the world: “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” New and Improved CommentsIf you have trouble leaving a comment, review this help page. Still having problems? Let us know. If you find yourself moderated, take a moment to review our comment policy. |
By drbhelthi, May 17, 2010 at 12:55 am Link to this comment
A passport is a national I.D.
A passport is a national I.D., and is required when crossing the
border from one nation into another nation, world-wide. Except
more recently in the European Union. It is rigidly enforced when
Europeans, citizens of NATO and UN member countries, visit the
US. It should also be enforced with visitors from Mexico and
Canada, especially “welfare opportunists.” Sad that Arizona had to
copy US national law into the Arizona charter in order to be
effective.
In all countries, the police stop vehicles to examine the driver´s
driving credentials. Pedestrians may also be stopped to examine
citizenship credentials. Quite obviously, it is not the use of this
authority that is in question, but rather the MISUSE of this
authority. Similar to the general misuse of authority that plagues
what remains of the USofA.
Granted, todays world is not the world of 1945. In 1945, the NAZI-
israeli movement had not overtaken the US, and was not spreading
“genocide” around the world under the guise of democracy. In 1945
the amoral, double-handful of super-rich satanists were only
beginning to overtake the US Congress and the US military.
In 1945, they had only begun to pollute medicine, science, history,
public education and the American dream. Today, their stupidos
have adapted UFO/Tesla technology to weapons that are used to
destroy the friendly visitors from other galaxies. These friendly
visitors conducted a gratuitous meeting with U.S. President, Dwight
D. Eisenhower, at a U.S. AF Base, in one of their vehicles. Info
about which “they” and their puppetry continue to vigorously
suppress. Their satanic goal is to manipulate and destroy, not to
harmonize and preserve.
Take a look at israeli tribe history. Their leadership continue to
deny the event of approx. two thousand years ago, since the God
they posited did not precisely follow their prescription. Interesting
that the politician on the scene found no fault with the man, Jesus.
Yet, leaders of the israeli tribe responded, “give us Barabas.”
The behavior and life-stye of Barabas was and continues to be their
Report thisown motivation and life-style. Destruction & genocide for the world,
while mouthing, ” we are doing God´s will.”
By Corinthia, May 16, 2010 at 10:36 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
I see alot of comments about “well you have to carry papers in other countries” Bull - total bull - I lived in Asia in varies countries for over seven years, I’ve been to Israel, Iran, Turkey, Kenya…. I have about 1/3 of the worlds countries under my belt, and you know what other than showing my passport at the airport to get a new stamp in my collection ... I have NEVER been asked for my papers, and I didn’t need to carry them around, it was far safer, and rational to leave them in the hotel safe, or at home.
If I am there long enough, getting my international driver license re-instated. Worrying about papers, is a sign that you are in a country you shouldn’t visit because they are crazy dangerous. Possibly because it is having an active war going on, I’ll admit I’ve never been in a war zone except by accident (because it happen quickly) in Thailand in the 70’s. (come to think of it still didn’t need my papers, just needed to leave the country while people were shooting each other with no interest in foreigners.)
Report thisNazi Germany needed papers, and there is a reason, if we start needing papers other than out our border - we have a problem - and it is not illegal immigration
By drbhelthi, May 16, 2010 at 12:31 am Link to this comment
Folk who have traveled in foreign countries, and have carried a US
Passport and/or US military ID all their adult lives, understand the
situation a bit differently.
It is past time for the world to comprehend that “Uncle Sugar” has
no more sugar.
It has all been stolen by the American and German and israeli
NAZI-types who began to take over the US with the event of
Operation Paper Clip, 1945.
Information about which is being carefully distorted and removed
from the internet, by the elitist few´s puppetry, US Gov employees.
These dictator-type groups and their offspring have become
marionettes of the super-rich, elitist-type-doublehandful of
satanists, most with an israeli-tribe background. These types
manipulate the world with their “Alaska Pipelines,” their planned,
intentional oil-spills, and their artificially-controlled oil and gasoline
prices. They even block the US Congress from determining that the
“U.S. Federal Reserve” is owned by them and not the U.S.
The benevolent concept, “Give me your tired, your poor, Your
huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of
your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I
lift my lamp beside the golden door” may have still been valid
seventy years ago. However, it pertains to the “homeless,” not
opportunists.
The sophomoric whimpery about not being able to illegally move into
a foreign country and immediately enjoy its welfare benefits? The
historical border laxity of Canada, USA, Mexico was convenient, yet
stupid. A passport is a national I.D. required when visiting a foreign
country. It is nothing new. Even in Arizona.
The national and international whimpery directed at a national ID
for the US, is an interesting distraction from practices that are
destroying the earth, while driving it out of its natural orbit.
USA covert leadership that cause an earthquake in Haiti by
Report thisexperimental nuclear blasts, yet subsequently hide the info from
the world, while soliciting the world for “Aid for Haiti,” reflects
the asocial values of the “inner sanctum” that currently manipulate
the USA and the world. Pictures of their more-prominent puppetry
are associated with costly, color ads requesting “Aid,” which will
never reach the needy of Haiti.
By UreKismet, May 15, 2010 at 4:19 pm Link to this comment
This thread is saddening as well as maddening. Wandering through this site checking out posts on diverse amerikan foreign policy issues I noticed that many posters appear to ‘get it’ when it comes to those. They display the knowledge or the sensitivity to who humans are to understand forcing a set of views on another bunch of humans causes blowback. We know there will be blowback because we know our history. Yet posts about pushing ‘them’ back ‘South’ and ‘illegals’ are bereft of insight into humanity or history. I despair for those who hold these two beliefs simultaneously.
Many peeps here critical of MChrystal’s efforts to create a cordon sanitaire in Afghanistan or the oppressive wall of the israel apartheid state don’t see building a similar wall on amerika’s southern border would be equally oppressive and ultimately fail. The most recent examples of failed walls, that of apartheid era South Africa and Soviet europe apparently don’t provoke any doubts for many amerikans.
I know where these ideas have their basis. Working as a union organiser for many years I witnessed on several occasions how the definition of ‘all the people’ shifts once the pursuit of humanist ideals achieves some success. Unfortunately what many humans never come to realise is that once the notion of all the people becomes qualified into ‘just us people’ the most powerful tool of joint action, solidarity, is compromised and soon afterwards the gains that had been made are destroyed as the movement fragments into divided cliques.
Irony abounds of course. Most of those insisting that this wall be built, that amerika create an impenetrable barrier on its southern flank have been living in the corrupt corporate empire of amerika for the blink of an eye. Less than two hundred years of existing on a landmass that has hosted humans for at least sixteen thousand and probably forty thousand years. Needless to say it is those humans with many thousands of years of history on the american landmass which are being kept out by those who have have there for a tiny fragment of that period.
Amerikans (those willing inhabitants of the corporate capitalist state of amerika) are quick to argue the ‘honeypot’ effect, that it is the alleged wealth and bounteous enjoyment of the amerikan lifestyle which encourages indigenous americans to move northwards. Too many forget that in many cases the opposite is the case, that it isn’t what is good about amerika that has shifted the indiginous people, it is what has happened to their former domiciles that got them moving. Because the truth is that while most amerikans crouched fearfully behind their nebulous, artificial borders, their rulers, the corporate capitalists, have been treating the rest of the american continent as if it were their own personal playground for more than a century. Capitalists have been helping themselves to whatever they wanted, displacing huge populations and in the process destroying life systems thousands of years old.
The capitalists have never made any meaningful attempt to ameliorate the pollutions and despoilations, so it was inevitable that the huge population shifts that have occured as a result of this rape would eventually arrive in the one place where corporate rape and pillage has been partially restrained, amerika itself.
Good luck on the border control, lol. The chances of stopping this ineluctable flow of humanity, of preventing many millions of humans whose lives have been forever disrupted, from moving northwards, by throwing up concrete barriers and pointing guns at them, are zilch, nil, non-existant.
Report thisThe sooner amerikans realise it and force their rulers to repair the damage done south rather than just put the lid in the honeypot north, the sooner all american humans can live more harmoniously.
By Blueboy1938, May 14, 2010 at 5:01 pm Link to this comment
“The Department of Homeland Security reported that illegal immigrant population dropped to 10.8 million in 2009 compared to 11.6 million in 2008. It was the second consecutive annual decline and the largest in at least three decades.” CBS
News, February 11, 2010
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/11/national/main6197466.shtml
However, Toot_toot actually makes my point, which was that there is a substantial number of illegal immigrants currently residing in the United States that must be dealt with by any immigration reform measure for it to be considered truly “comprehensive.” Whether there are 10, 20, or 30 million is
beside the point, except to the extent that the greater numbers would, if accurate, make it even more essential to address this issue.
¡Muchas gracias, Toque_toque, mi amigo!
Report thisBy Michael Shaw, May 14, 2010 at 2:40 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
This entire fear mongering law from Arizona is meant
for two things, one is to make legal residents of
Latino descent fear going out their doors, especially
to vote. The second, a method to create further
racial divisions and suspicions throughout the
country. Paranoia is a valuable tool to those who
have no regard of constitutional law and especially
those who would like to blame immigrants for all of
our woes while conveniently ignoring the real
culprits! Beyond misdirection, it is a classic
example of divide and conquer aimed at the poor and
working classes! Even Arnold, someone I agree little
with, finds this new law disturbing and well he
should! But heavy accents only begin to touch the
potential devastation of this new “law.”
As for granting amnesty, that happened under Reagan,
Report thisbefore the so called free world markets kicked in,
enabling even cheaper labor than Mexicans, making
them obsolete (and losing the rest of us millions of
manufacturing jobs that will never come back, making
us obsolete too!) The answer to this problem (that is
being grossly exaggerated) is neither Arizona’s way
or amnesty. It is called practicality based in human
decency! Those who illegally entered this country and
are hard working, honest non criminals should pay a
fine and go to the back of the line to legally apply
for citizenship(without deportation or separating
parents from their children). Those who are
criminals(felons) should be either jailed or deported
or both! The idea in rounding up millions of people
to throw them out of the country is absurd if not
feasibly or economically impossible! It is also bad
for the businesses patronized by these people, not a
good idea in a time of economic crisis! Better to
make legal taxpayers out of these folks than to
create an underground that may have to resort to
criminal activity and perhaps even enhance and
promote the crime that already exists!
By RAE, May 14, 2010 at 1:51 pm Link to this comment
Velly intresting, Turner.
Don’t suppose you’re aware that stats, especially crime stats, are almost as unreliable as pure guesses. It all depends on who is counting what in which category and then on who is compiling them for what reason. Just like religions and the Bible… all depends on what message you WANT to read.
And then, of course, quoting, for one example, how many are murdered by illegal aliens without also quoting how many are not, skews the message so far out of round as to be worth nothing other than for propaganda.
Congrats!
Report thisBy dissentispatriotic, May 14, 2010 at 1:07 pm Link to this comment
RE: Toot_toot, May 14 at 5:04 pm
Your bigoted xenophobia is showing.
“Also, I think everybody knows that phoney statistico
Report thisnumero is wrongo, Pancho!”
By dissentispatriotic, May 14, 2010 at 1:04 pm Link to this comment
RE: Blueboy1938, May 14 at 3:42 pm
Thank you for that reasonable and fact based analysis. So much of this
Report thisdebate has been about fear and emotion.
By Blueboy1938, May 14, 2010 at 11:42 am Link to this comment
It seems inevitable that Arizona has prompted the federal machinery to start
grinding toward some sort of “comprehensive” immigration reform. It will be
difficult to craft a measure that will address the 10.8 million illegals (in 2008,
down from 11.6 in 2008) now here but avoid the “amnesty” label, provide some
more universal form of temporary legal “guest worker” program, perhaps
modeled on the old “bracero” contracts that imported laborers from Mexico
(only!) from 1942 to 1967, standardize availability of government services
available to aliens, whatever their legal status, and clarify the citizenship of
children of aliens born in the U. S.
Arizona has taken a meat ax approach to a very complex issue that will have
unintended economic, social, and legal consequences that will bedevil the state
for years to come. Hopefully, the federal courts will declare the measure
unconstitutional because of jurisdictional conflict before it goes into effect and
gives rise to messy profiling suits. There is no way Arizona law enforcement
agencies can avoid profiling charges without applying the law equally to all
those they arrest or even stop. That means everyone will have to carry proof of
legal residence in Arizona, whether white, black, hispanic, Asian, Native
American (yes, even Native Americans, as they could have come from Canada if
only appearance is considered).
So, just as we now have to carry a passport, or equivalent, when traveling out
Report thisof the country by land, sea, or air, as of July 1, 2009 - even to Canada or
Mexico, travel to which countries previously only required some form of
government issued ID - everyone traveling, to Arizona after July of this year
and all those living there without the same does so at their peril.
By dissentispatriotic, May 14, 2010 at 11:16 am Link to this comment
RE: velvel in decatur, May 14 at 12:04 pm
You are confusing and diverting the issue again. NO ONE is proposing “entirely
open borders”. That is not what the debate is about. This most recent debate
is arguing a small and controversial part of the real discussion that should
be happening. This is no accident. Notice we didn’t hear a peep about
immigration in 2009 and now suddenly in an election year it’s the hot button
issue(same exact situation in the 1986* mid-term year). No one is even talking
about our visa system THE NUMBER ONE ENTRY POINT FOR UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE. The
issue IS about our visa system and the way in which we choose to address the
10.8 million people already here. By the way according to the Department of
Homeland Security(INS) that number has decreased by one million, over the last
few years, in response to the economic downturn.
People have broken US immigration law (which is in no way a violation of
American’s “human rights”, try looking up the definition) that does not mean
that we can act like two year olds and say “well THEY don’t respect OUR human
rights”. Many have come here to flee poverty and to provide a better life for
their families. To me there is nothing that embodies the American dream more.
They are not a drain on us. WE are exploiting THEM for cheap labor, from which
our economy has greatly profited. That is the greater crime here. And if we
had actually enforced our visa policies or IRCA* there would be less than half
the number of undocumented workers here in the first place. We have we all
(particularly our government) been complacent and complicit for years. Why the
big debate now? Oh, yeah it is a mid-term election year.
Lastly, your statement, “nor demands that everything be officially translated
into German, or French, or Yiddish, or Mandarin. (Or Hmong, Hebrew, Farsi, or
Gaelic, Welsh, or Pig Latin or Carney, for that matter.)” only exposes your
xenophobia. There are millions of American citizens for whom English is a
second language and who often need assistance and translation. Should we treat
them like criminals as well? Should we not provide assistance to them? And why
do we demand total assimilation? Maybe we’re just scared of learning a second
language ourselves.
*The Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA), also Simpson-Mazzoli Act
(Pub.L. 99-603, 100 Stat. 3359, signed by President Ronald Reagan on November
6, 1986) is an Act of Congress which reformed United States immigration law.
The Act made it illegal to knowingly hire or recruit illegal immigrants
(immigrants who do not possess lawful work authorization), required employers
to attest to their employees’ immigration status, and granted amnesty to
certain illegal immigrants who entered the United States before January 1,
1982 and had resided there continuously. The Act also granted a path towards
legalization to certain agricultural seasonal workers and immigrants who had
been continuously and illegally present in the United States since January 1,
1982.
All of these ideas are always hashed out during mid-term election years. The
reason IRCA did not solve the problem is because it was never enforced fully.
The idea was actually designed to convince Americans that brown people were
flooding across the border to steal their jobs and social services (sound
familiar?). Our government does not really WANT to solve this problem because
they are complicit in the exploitation of said workers.
Undocumented workers are not the enemy of the American people. Let’s all say
Report thisit together. Undocumented workers are not the enemy of the American people.
By velvel in decatur, May 14, 2010 at 8:04 am Link to this comment
You raise a vexing issue with no suggestion of rational solution. Too easy, I say.
How do you treat people humanely and decently while at the same time requiring them to behave humanely and decently—-and also require them to abide by law? Once upon a time there was a requirement that persons seeking to immigrate had to have a “sponsor” who was responsible for their support until they began earning and supporting themselves.
The US had few pretend holidays like Cinco de Mayo (when Mexicans fought the French, remember?), nor demands that everything be officially translated into German, or French, or Yiddish, or Mandarin. (Or Hmong, Hebrew, Farsi, or Gaelic, Welsh, or Pig Latin or Carney, for that matter.)
I read the Arizona statute—- it appears our noble author did not.
I read comparisons between the Arizona statute and federal statutes (irregularly enforced) that the Arizona statute tracks.
Had the feds enforced laws now in place, Arizona might not have acted.
So I ask, “What planet are Professor Ryder and Bishop Tutu speaking from? Can they (or you, dear author) name the other countries that have entirely open borders? Is there a simultaneous obligation on the person seeking to enter the US (or any other country, for that matter) to abide by the laws of the state or country the person desires to enter?
Why should only the United States and her lawful residents respect what you consider human rights of others while others need not respect the human rights of lawful residents of the United States.
A double standard, perhaps?
I understand your feelings of conflict after being “selected” for examination upon your reentry from Canada. I just returned from overseas and the lengthy questioning I endured was no joy, either, but everyone with me received the same thorough treatment.
Perhaps you should consider whether or not we willing (or should be compelled) to pay the cost of totally open borders? What are the costs? Who is to pay them?
I loathe double standards.
Report thisAs to
By Turner, May 14, 2010 at 6:40 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
If you’re seriously interested in knowing some of the collateral damage and horrendous costs of illegal immigration, click below:
http://elliotlakenews.wordpress.com/2010/01/04/crime-illegal-aliens/
http://elliotlakenews.wordpress.com/2007/05/07/illegal-aliens-kill-thousands-yearly/
Report thisBy RAE, May 14, 2010 at 5:27 am Link to this comment
“All of this I took in stride because I figured that it was being done in the interest of national security.” Marcia A. Dawkins
No. You submitted to this abuse because you’ve been conditioned to do so. From birth Americans are taught to yield to power and authority without question. Many, if not most, American males are routinely “broken” by some form of military “training” then rebuilt to react to the command “JUMP” by asking, without thinking, “HOW HIGH?” And many, if not most, American females are “advised” to yield to the wishes of American males. This form of systemic abuse is the true perversion. (Look up the definition if you don’t believe me.)
I know this is generalizing and therefore does not apply to all. But it’s my view that it applies to a majority.
Another forum member stated that those given authority - really any petty bureaucrat or functionary, especially ones issued sidearms, - tend to “throw their weight around” especially with those who present little resistance or likelihood of being able to throw it back. Could you construct a more accurate description of a COWARD or BULLY?
They do so because even when they’re caught in the abuse, their peers and handlers close ranks to protect them from prosecution, and even when the courts, years later, proclaim the abusers guilty, any penalties are taken care of by the employer. They have blanket immunity from day one on the job and unless they actually kill somebody they’ve got themselves a lifelong career with a nice fat pension.
As I’ve stated before: “YOU MAKE A FUNDAMENTAL ERROR WHEN YOU ASSUME THAT THOSE SET IN AUTHORITY OVER YOU KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE DOING.”
A word to the wise: NEVER TRUST AUTHORITY TO DO ANYTHING IN YOUR BEST INTEREST. They have become the problem. As with most unions, they didn’t start out that way. In the beginning they were not only necessary but welcomed and honored.
Not now. The “To Serve and Protect” crowd, for the most part, consider citizens as the enemy. They act as if THEY own the country and just allow us “homesteaders” and “squatters” to live here as a courtesy.
There’s no way to beat them short of a full blown insurrection. Fortunately, it’s not difficult to avoid them and/or outsmart them. I’ll leave it at that.
Report thisBy dissentispatriotic, May 13, 2010 at 4:23 pm Link to this comment
PART II
Another big misrepresentation is that Latino immigrant communities are
characterized by drugs and violence. The Central American drug cartels
are a bi-product of our own failed drug policies. South American drugs
manufactured for the US market have put countries like Mexico and El
Salvador in the crossfire. While this does not excuse anyone who chooses
to commit violence against another, it is important cultural context. It
helps to dispel the xenophobic myth that drugs and crime are somehow
intrinsic to the Central American people or culture. People of all
ethnicities and cultures are equally capable of committing atrocities and
we are not without complicity in the Central American drug and gang
epidemic.
In conclusion, undocumented workers did break the law whether upon entry
or by staying after a visa expired. But that does not mean that it would
be healthy for our country to treat them like criminals through mass
deportation. They are human beings simply looking for a better life for
their families. They are hard workers, with valuable skills, who are
already contributing to this society in many positive ways. The debate
needs to be about our visa system and about what is a dignified and
humane way to address the population already here. In my opinion
indiscriminate mass deportation does not successfully address either in a
reasonable way. It will only cause us to cut off our own noses to spite
our face. It will violate the rights of many American citizens. It will
further exploit the exploited and split up families. It will increase
cultural and racial animosity and violence while driving a further wedge
between our two great cultures. It does not embody the spirit of the
constitution or liberty. Most importantly it will not solve the problem.
In addition, if we rebuild the Great Wall of China along our border
Report thispeople will still find a way in(mostly through the cracks in our visa
system) and probably at the same rate that we can deport them. So let’s
forget this politically motivated attempt to scare Americans and address
this crucial issue with common sense and compassion.
By dissentispatriotic, May 13, 2010 at 4:23 pm Link to this comment
PART I
There is so much misrepresentation surrounding this debate. In one of the
posts I read, “Arizona could have survived the relentless surge of illegal
immigrants”. While there always may be people trying to cross our southern
border, this clearly gives the impression that the number of undocumented
workers in the US is always on the incline, and that one day we will be
totally overrun. According to the Department of Homeland Security web-
site, under the INS immigration statistics tab, the number of undocumented
workers in this country has stayed fairly consistent since 2005(10.5
million in 2005). In fact, the overall number has declined by about one
million, since late 2007, in response to the economic downturn in the
US(10.8 million now). There is a point of maximum saturation consistent
with the number of jobs available. In addition, the US and Mexican border
is not the primary entry point for most of the undocumented workers
here(the #1 would be staying after a visa expired). Does this mean that
there is no public safety issue or debate to be had about border safety?
Of course not. It simply demonstrates that we are only arguing the most
controversial part of the debate, during this important mid-term election
year, and that fear is powerful.
The next most common misrepresentation would be that having the police ask
for an I.D. is no big deal or inconvenience if it is in the name of
national security(i.e. airport security). But imagine that you had to go
through airport security just to leave your house every single day of your
life. For many Latino American citizens this is a real and legitimate
fear. They are indistinguishable in appearance from targeted undocumented
populations so their civil rights will most certainly be put in jeopardy
should we implement gestapo style mass deportation. Just put yourself in
their shoes. “Detained” on the way to the store. Fingerprinted heading to
the gym. Arrested because you left your wallet at home and you LOOK and
sound like one of those damn “illegals”. The terms reasonable suspicion
and probable cause are already stretched for racial profiling. The Arizona
law simply gives carte blanche to law enforcement to interpret even more
loosely these already subjective definitions.
The third most common misrepresentation is that undocumented workers are
draining our economy by using social services and taking our jobs. The
terrible irony here is that it is we who are exploiting them as cheap
labor. By definition, an exploited population cannot be taking advantage
of the population exploiting them. Do the math for yourself. If there are
10.8 million undocumented workers here, that means that for every billion
dollars spent it breaks down to about $100 per person. For every 10
billion it would be about $1,000 per person and so on. The Center for
Immigration Studies reported in 2004: “Households headed by illegal aliens
imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002
and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of
almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household. Spread that $2,700
per year per household over all of the paychecks in each household and we
are still paying them less than we would a US citizen for the same job.
Making us the exploiters and them the exploited. Notice too that many
undocumented workers, visas expired or border crossers, are still paying
taxes. In 2004 about $16 billion worth. So amnesty and a CLEAR path to
citizenship for most of the people already here as well as serious
revision and lock down of our visa system may be the only way to bring
this problem under control. That would force employers to pay a
competitive American wage to all and we would be able to eliminate the tax
deficit.
CONTINUED…
Report thisBy Bboy56, May 13, 2010 at 11:12 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
“Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
Alas, these words seem like a tired euphamism now. They have no real significance at this juncture in our nation. Politics as usual.
I live in Arizona. I am married to an immigrant who came here from Mexico.
It makes me sick to see someone that ran for the highest office in the land become flipper the dolphin because of the heat he’s facing from an opponent from his right. From his comfy conservative centrist position that has kept him a populist choice for many terms in the state.
These old “cold warriors” forget Mr. Reagans urgings to “tear down these walls of division”. Now it’s not a slogan or sentiment that’s convienient for the politicians, or the vigilante nationalists who take/have taken the old western code into their own hands (a whole other can of worms here).
Listen, the politicians are evasive as h***. They don’t want to have to deal with the real issue of IMMIGRATION LAW REFORM. The laws are broke, and the quotas that the law imposes are a joke. We have neighbors to our state willing to give up much in order to create a possible better situation for themselves and their offspring. They WANT TO DO IT LEGALLY. Unfortunately again, prevailing quotas to keep political power in certain pockets again becomes the determining factor. Not what is just or serves a greater cause. A WELCOMING NATION. Especially for a direct neighbor. Ethnic Bigotry takes another direct stand here.
Report thisBy REDHORSE, May 13, 2010 at 10:32 am Link to this comment
JEANJEANNIE/SOTEXGUY: JJ’s description of her “illegals” controlled town mirrors mine—-and the violence is spreading. That’s why Arizona passed the new law. I appreciate STG’s lack of “kneejerk” in his comments about the fence. “Illegal” immigration can be stopped—enforce the law. It isn’t rocket science. GERARD (as always) makes some good suggestions—but they don’t happen because the graft and easy money makes it’s way to the pockets of our friends in D.C. DAWKINS has never been spit on or assaulted by racist latinos—I doubt she needs to carry a weapon in her car. TOBYSGIRL is correct about the low brow bully attitude of our security people. PS ‘s suspicion that some mass psychosis is in play and BRITS attempt at a sane approach to action all support a suspicion I’ve had for a while. We lose our power and energy when we engage in the kneejerk emotional sensationalism spun by people like DAWKINS or the racist latino press. (Again, after a lifetime on the border I don’t think they give a #@%& about hard working Mexicans.) I’m told the fax is the best way to get a policy comment heard by our leaders and that’s what I use.
I enjoy the site and the comments—THANKS TO ALL!!
Report thisBy felicity, May 13, 2010 at 10:23 am Link to this comment
To counter the argument that the Arizona law is racial profiling is for the authorities to stop and require EVERY person, and I mean EVERY person, to produce proof of citizenship.
For the sake of efficiency, check-points would need to be set up throughout Arizona. Going from A to B, once a one hour trip, would now become, with a check-point on the way, a two hour trip.
Arizona residents might get a tad testy over the inconvenience, but hey, the accusation of racial profiling would now be moot.
That scenario aside, the Arizona law as written is fraught with unintended consequences. I’m thinking of Plessy v. Ferguson when the Court ruled that separate was equal. That tidy ruling ended up ushering in Jim Crow laws. It wasn’t until many, many years later when the Court ruled that separate wasn’t equal that those dreadful laws were eradicated.
Report thisBy Bulging Spandex, May 13, 2010 at 9:48 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Welcome to America Mexicans. Slave labour awaits you and our prisons await your children (bonkers). We should be begging Iran to nuke us at this point.
The only enforcement that will be accepted is the kind that is not effective. People have the right to express their opinions, fine with me, just stop pretending to care about our education/healthcare etc.
Republicans vs Democrats!
Democrats vs Republicans!
Republicans vs Democrats!
Democrats vs Republicans!
STUPID!
Report thisBy diman, May 13, 2010 at 9:42 am Link to this comment
Funny how it works with you Americans, the government takes away YOUR freedoms and introduces the Patriot Act - you keep silent, no Seth McFarlane statements, no basketball teams wearing “Abolish the Act” t-shirts but when Arizona introduces the law - Oh Boy, you get all sensitive and liberal. I guess the perspective of getting back to cleaning you own toiletts, mawing lawns,babysitting and doing all the dirty work in the country is much more frightening than protecting you constitutional right for due process and habeas corpus.
Report thisBy swain, May 13, 2010 at 9:15 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
JEANJEANIES COMMENT IS THE RIGHTEOUS THUTH ALL YOU HAND
Report thisWRINGERS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE THE ULTIMATE DECISION SOON
APPEASMENT IS NO OPTION
By purplewolf, May 13, 2010 at 9:06 am Link to this comment
And after they are done with the racial profiling, are they going to start with “what religion do you practice” and if you don’t fit into their brand of acceptable Christianity(naturally,since it has been forced unto the indigenous peoples when America was invaded)you disappear or something more nefarious if you don’t conform to what is considered acceptable by the PTB?
Report thisBy SoTexGuy, May 13, 2010 at 5:32 am Link to this comment
About the concept of a border fence..
Our community was caught up in all the histrionics of the anti-fence movement. The world would stop spinning if the fence were to go forward.. we were crucifying the spirits of our founding fathers with the abomination of the fence.. Stalin’s police state reborn.. and all that jazz..
Personally, I didn’t (and don’t) like the concept of fencing our border.. yet I’ve been unable to get so riled up about it.. Probably because the problems associated with uncontrolled border crossings are in my face everyday. I’ve heard very many good arguments against the fence! and agree with much of it. Few of those arguing so passionately against the fence will acknowledge the real threat and problem of illegal crossings.. or offer any concrete solutions to that..
Of the fence itself..
I live and work within a few miles of old Mexico and have watched the fence go up along many miles of the lower Rio Grande river. It’s not pretty, but there’s no doubt it’s well-designed and constructed.. unlike so much that is built in the US these days!
When I’m out in rural areas near the border I spend a lot of time ‘behind’ the fence on the border side.. Since the fence has neared completion the number of individuals and groups crossing the border in that area has dropped to almost nothing.. and problems coming across the border previously experienced there have also practically disappeared as well. The fence works. I suppose that’s what drives the continued outrage against it!
About purely local resistance to the fence and tighter borders.. a lot of that has vanished as well!..
That’s understandable with the State Department warning us to stay out of Tamaulipas.. daily eye witness reports of armed conflicts between the narco traffickers and elements of the Mexican army, stashes of weapons and explosives and RPGs found, dozens of kidnap victims and hostages found and rescued.. all within a couple of miles of our own homes (the automatic gunfire can frequently be heard)..
There’s not so much talk of the evil of the fence these days. Funny how that works!
Adios.
Report thisBy bogi666, May 13, 2010 at 1:05 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
TheDHS, Department of Homeland Security, very NAZI sounding, and its conduct for entering the USA. It’s obedience training for adults, a pilot program. Shoe removal when exiting a planem pure obedience training for a society of mindlessness. Mind control folks, it’s all that simple. Hire some power deprived ingrate, cretins and tell them to push U.S, citizens around simply because they can. The DHS models itself after the KGB,USSR internal security, and the NAZI’S. America is a SOCIETY of NARCISSISTIC, CONSUMERIST, GLUTTONS forged into mindlessness unable to discern their own and the thought of others from facts. They constru these thought into facts having been dumbed down and insulted and don’t even know it.
Report thisBy Ouroborus, May 12, 2010 at 11:38 pm Link to this comment
Sorry; my previous post thanks to Wikiquote.
Report thisBy Ouroborus, May 12, 2010 at 11:35 pm Link to this comment
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a
Report thislittle temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety”.
This was written by Benjamin Franklin sometime shortly
before February 17, 1775 as part of his notes for a
proposition at the Pennsylvania Assembly.
By mike112769, May 12, 2010 at 10:56 pm Link to this comment
Why not just invite Mexico to join the United States? Provided that they accept our Constitution. Most Mexicans obviously like ours more than theirs. This would benefit almost everybody concerned in the long run. The vast majority of Americans have no problem with Mexicans, only the ones that are here illegally.
Report thisBy OfCourse, May 12, 2010 at 5:42 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
It’s too bad you were detained, but immigration policy should not be fashioned from anecdotal short stories. The problem is illegal aliens and what to do as a country, but since the federal government has failed to act, local authority must. Most people support the Arizona Law because it addressed the exact problem, Illegal Aliens (who, along with all aliens, are required to carry id since the 1940’s).
Report thisThere are many illegal alien enablers; the church, greedy capitalists, lazy consumers, ethnic based politicians, “activists,” smugglers, all have there own reasoning for promoting illegal alien amnesty. Meanwhile the majority of the citizenry has come to the conclusion that whatever “benefit” illegal immigration has is outweighed by the costs.
In 1986 we had amnesty and that did nothing to stop illegal aliens. It seems unlikely that the same approach will be tried again.
In the mean time we should all try and approach this complex issue with some reasoning and not resort to simple minded name calling and conspiracy theories. The US is not 1930 Weimar Germany.
By Brittanicus, May 12, 2010 at 5:10 pm Link to this comment
The can of worms has finally been opened by the legislators in Arizona regarding the illegal immigrant squatters there. Other states now realize that they too are a mirror image of foreign nationals moving into their communities, without the permission of the US Government or the American people. The fuse has been lite, owing to the building crime wave in Phoenix and other cities, which has encroached across the border. For at least twenty years or more of neglect, millions of illegal immigrants families have chosen to break the law of this sovereign country and trespass on its soil. Now the politicians are looking for an easy exit, from the consequences of many administrations refusal to do anything? Because of public outcry they built the fence, but then derailed funding enacting the 2006 Omnibus Consolidated Appropriations bill that gutted the 2006 Secure Fence Act that would have constructed the first 854 miles of the U.S-Mexico border.
Report thisBy Brittanicus, May 12, 2010 at 5:09 pm Link to this comment
But instead under this provision which was first introduced quietly by Sen. Hutchison this summer as S.Amdt. 2466 to H.R. 2368 (the DHS appropriations bill). “The Hutchison amendment gives DHS virtually total discretion over how and where the fence is built,” Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA) the princible draftee of the law, stated, ” By eliminating the double fence requirement, the Democratic Congress is going to make it easier for drug and human smugglers to cross our Southern land ,” The an amendment submitted by Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-TX, and co-sponsored by Sen. John Cornyn, (R-TX), for the Department of Homeland Security 2008 budget was aimed at gutting the already-approved H.R. 6061 Secure Fence Act, which was adopted with the promise hundreds of miles of (Two) physical fencing that would have assisted secure the U.S. border with Mexico.
Now the single fence remains uncompleted with easy access for remorseless criminals and hoards of illegal aliens. Only the prized actual 50 miles build by the design of Duncan Hunter in Southern California has produced any success. If the fence had been completed, with full funding without deceiving the American Public the border state of Arizona could have survived the relentless surge of illegal immigrants and Phoenix being branded the capitol of kidnapping.border This majority of Americans must know by now that they come last in protection from the invaders. I repeat that Congress can find the money to fight foreign wars and build walls and watchtowers in separating North from South Korea. But it is evident not matter the degree of murders, drug cartels and the free flow of illegal immigrants, they have no intention of constructing the double fence. Now this has come back to haunt DEMOCRATS who voted against it, and should now be ejected in the earliest election.
$3.5 million of this derailment of the real fence funding went to La Raza, a radical hate group which advocates a takeover of parts of the U.S. Southwest by Mexico. Plus a list of “Earmarks” that must be called an outrage, while public safety remain least of there concerns. One representative said of the Liberal-Democrats, ” They’ll nix a protective barrier that would enhance national security, but dig into our pockets for 10 million bucks toward Public Defenders for illegal aliens.” The battle for the life blood of American survival, against this invasion begins with the removal of—ALL—incumbents who voted out the double layer fence.in the Omnibus Consolidated Appropriations bill. They are ultimately to blame for the foreign invasion, that is costing not only Arizona billions of dollars in welfare support, for American jobs and crimes at the hands of illegal aliens. Tell everybody you know to derail any chance of a path to citizenship or Amnesty for illegal aliens. No Immigration Reform but enforce the laws enacted in 1986. AND BUILD THE REAL FENCE(S) Call your representative at 202-224-3121 See who should get the boot in the primaries, who are Pro-Amnesty at NumbersUSA.
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By JeanJeannie, May 12, 2010 at 3:49 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
This article cries about the fear that the illegals and everyone else in this persons opinion will have of the Arizona law. Yet I live in California and feel that fear every day because I live in a town of 14,000 that is 85% Hispanic. The Mexican/Hispanics are rude, racist and very confrontational. I rarely hear English spoken and the Mexicans make sure to rub it in our faces that they are in control of the town and have all the rights and we better get use to it. Well I guess I should also mention that about 40% of the towns Hispanics are illegal aliens, with at least 10 different Hispanic gangs. We have drivebys, and drunk drivers on a daily and weekly basis.
Yet, those people who complain about the Arizona law are offended and concerned about showing their ID. Showing my ID is the least of my problems here. Kids are beaten at school if they don’t act Mexican enough. We have graffiti that marks the different gang territory. The Hispanics whose families have lived here many generations are angry with this invasion and are moving out along with all the other ethnicity’s.
The illegal sympathizers complain about racial profiling, yet they couldn’t care less about the rest of us who have to live with the ugliness this invasion has brought to our towns, neighborhoods and schools. The feeling of entitlement of the anchor babies and their loyalty to Mexico creates a hostility and encourages the destruction and take over of our land, and they don’t try to hide it.
We are being taken over and the best these people can do is complain that they are being asked to show an ID.
Report thisBy Tobysgirl, May 12, 2010 at 3:36 pm Link to this comment
The description of entering the country reminds me of an essay I read, I believe on Counterpunch, by someone who experienced the same thing. He was not quite as understanding as the author of this piece, having traveled behind the Iron Curtain during the Soviet era, which he found remarkably similar to returning to the U.S. from Canada.
If someone truly believes this will keep her safe, that’s nice. However, I do not believe that these absurdities—and the customs people have always been absurd, questioning my mother’s nightwear upon her return from a trip to Asia, telling my friends that they must be “relieved” to be back in the U.S. from France—keep us safe. They are simply ways for people given authority to throw their weight around, and my experience of people in authority is that they like to throw their weight around with people whom they know are nonthreatening. They usually run from the truly scary guys.
Report thisBy gerard, May 12, 2010 at 2:47 pm Link to this comment
1. Stop putting billions into wars and using the military-industrial complex as U.S.‘s main economic engine and job-provider. Put the money into peacetime employment instead.
2. Stop the evil effects of trade agreements like NAFTA and level up the vast economic differences caused by out-of-control capitalism, indebtedness and exploitation of labor.
3. Legalize the drug business and manage it like alcohol and tobacco.
4. Stop imprisoning people for tryng to earn food for their families.
5. Consult the Vatican about beginning to advocate birth control through the Church.
6. Continue inter-cultural studies to build more understanding of the history of U.S.-Mexico relations
There’s more, but who can believe that under present pressures, people involved will have enough sense to do the right thing? Let’s hope, anyway.
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