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Be Consistent—Invade Saudi Arabia

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Posted on Mar 23, 2011
AP / Jerome Delay

Fallout: During a Tuesday trip organized by Libyan authorities, a supporter of Moammar Gadhafi salutes amid the wreckage of what was described as a maintenance warehouse hit by two missiles Monday evening. The site was at a naval base near Tripoli.

By Robert Scheer

It’s the black gold that drives nations mad and inevitably raises the question of whether America and the former European colonial powers give a damn about human rights as the basis for military intervention. If Libya didn’t have more oil than any other nation in Africa, would the West be unleashing high-tech military mayhem to contain what is essentially a tribal-based civil war? Once again an American president summons the passions of a human rights crusade against a reprehensible ruler whose crimes, while considerable, are not significantly different from those of dictators the U.S. routinely protects.

It is difficult to escape the conclusion that Moammar Gadhafi must now go not because his human rights record is egregious but rather because his erratic hold on power seems spent. After all, from the London School of Economics to Harvard, influential foreign policy experts were all too happy until quite recently to accept Libyan payoffs in exchange for a more benign view of Gadhafi’s prospects for change under the gentle guidance of what Harvard’s Joseph Nye celebrated as “soft power.”

But that revisionist appraisal of Gadhafi suddenly became an embarrassment when this nutty dictator—whom few in the world could ever understand, let alone warm to—was exposed by defections from his own armed forces to be akin to rotten fruit destined to drop. Libya’s honeymoon with the West, during which leaders led by Tony Blair and George W. Bush thought Col. Gadhafi might finally prove to be a worthy partner more concerned with reliably exporting oil than ineffectively ranting against Western imperialism, has suddenly been abandoned as no longer necessary. As with former U.S. ally Saddam Hussein before him, the Libyan strongman now seemed an awkward relic of a time that had passed him by, and easily replaceable. Not so the royal ruler of Saudi Arabia and the surrogates he finances in Yemen and Bahrain; their suppression of their peoples still falls within acceptable limits because of the vast resources the king manages in a manner that Western leaders have long found agreeable.

But this time, in the glaring light of the democratic currents sweeping through the Mideast, the contradictions in supporting one set of dictators while toppling others may prove impossible for the U.S. and its allies to effectively manage. The recognition, widely demanded throughout the region, that even ordinary Middle Easterners have inalienable rights is a sobering notion not easily co-opted. Why don’t those rights to self-determination extend to Shiites in the richest oil province in Saudi Arabia or for that matter to Palestinians in the West Bank or Gaza?

The fallback position for U.S. policymakers is the “war on terror” standard under which our dictators are needed to control super-fanatic Muslims. That’s why the U.S. trained the Republican Guard, led by a man who is the son of the despised ruler of Yemen and also is the counterterrorism liaison with Washington. On Tuesday it was the tanks of the lavishly U.S.-equipped Republican Guard that stood as the final line of support surrounding the Presidential Palace as calls for departure of Yemen’s dictator increased in intensity. The U.S. was still following the lead of Saudi Arabia, long a financier of the Yemeni ruler.

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The Saudi lead was made clearer in the kingdom’s support for the royal family in neighboring Bahrain as Saudi troops were sent in along with forces from the United Arab Emirates to suppress Bahraini democracy advocates claiming that freedom would enhance the power of the majority Shiite population. The fraud here is to locate Shiite Iran as the center of terrorism when it was the Sunni monarchies that were most closely identified with the problems that gave rise to al-Qaida. Not only did 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 come from Saudi Arabia but Saudi Arabia and the UAE, along with Pakistan, were the only countries to diplomatically recognize the Taliban regime that harbored al-Qaida. In Bahrain the majority Shiite population is dismissed as potentially under the sway of the rulers of Iran without strong evidence to that effect. Once again it is convenient to ignore the fact that Iran, as was the case with Saddam’s Iraq, had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack that launched the U.S. war on terror. 

All of which elevates the question of how long will the U.S. and its allies ignore the elephant in the room posed by an alliance for human rights and anti-terrorism with regimes in the Middle East that stand for neither? While the jury is still out on whether the West’s attack on Libya will prove to be a boon for that nation’s population, at the very least it should expose the deep hypocrisy of continuing to sell huge amounts of arms and otherwise supporting Saudi Arabia and its contingent tyrannies.

Click here to check out Robert Scheer’s book,
“The Great American Stickup: How Reagan Republicans and Clinton Democrats Enriched Wall Street While Mugging Main Street.”


Keep up with Robert Scheer’s latest columns, interviews, tour dates and more at www.truthdig.com/robert_scheer.



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LocalHero's avatar

By LocalHero, May 7, 2011 at 7:42 am Link to this comment

Just a quick skim of the writings of GRYM will prove
the fact that he only knows the cartoon-version of
history in which the US has always strove to do what’s
right and - in that shiny, paint-inside-the-lines world
- has achieved perfection.

He actually believes that we are that “shining city
upon a hill” rather than the boot upon the throat. I
almost envy his delusion.

Report this
LocalHero's avatar

By LocalHero, May 7, 2011 at 7:27 am Link to this comment

“...whose crimes, while considerable, are not
significantly different than that of dictators the U.S
routinely protects.”

Forget the dictators we protect. OUR crimes against the
civilian population & infrastructure are far worse than
the dictators we are trying to assassinate!

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By Inherit The Wind, March 27, 2011 at 9:51 pm Link to this comment

“...the people are simple and nice ,but do be wary of the water it could lead to the Tourista ,if you know what I mean . “
**************

Funny, they say the same about thing about us! (lol!)

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By radson, March 27, 2011 at 4:40 pm Link to this comment

ITW:Cuba is like Eastern Europe during the Soviet era but with palm tress and citrus plants ,the people are simple and nice ,but do be wary of the water it could lead to the Tourista ,if you know what I mean .

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By Inherit The Wind, March 27, 2011 at 4:03 pm Link to this comment

That’s it! Let’s invade Cuba!

But only where there are good beaches and great pina coladas.

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By gerard, March 27, 2011 at 2:53 pm Link to this comment

Patrick Henry and Radson:  Thanks. More later.

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By radson, March 27, 2011 at 1:13 pm Link to this comment

‘The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them.’
PH

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, March 27, 2011 at 10:11 am Link to this comment

Gerard,

One of the greatest alternatives to violence I can imagine is to integrate the US more fully into the UN framework. 

It was afterall a forum designed for conflict resolution, designed by us and often ignored by us.

Until such time as we rid the UN of the security council veto and have all member nation abide by democratic resolutions by the general assembly and World Court we will not make any progress and diplomacy will be determined by the law of the gun.

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Napolean DoneHisPart's avatar

By Napolean DoneHisPart, March 26, 2011 at 8:17 pm Link to this comment

Be Consistent, Mention the Usurpation of the U.S.Amerika!

Would anyone like a history lesson spanning from WWII up today?

Watch Garry Wills explain it to you:

http://fora.tv/2010/02/10/Garry_Wills_Bomb_Power

Then get an interesting perspective from this man’s point of view:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0yNd0rFF7c&NR=1

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By gerard, March 25, 2011 at 9:38 pm Link to this comment

GRYM:  How about a little homegrown conflict resolution between thee and me?  One way to continue conflict is to never stop.  I’m stopping.

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fearnotruth's avatar

By fearnotruth, March 25, 2011 at 9:24 pm Link to this comment

RE: ...15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 come from Saudi Arabia…

it should be added, that their visas were issued in Jeddah, against denial recommendations by the Embassy,  following State Dept. rules - according to report by Chief of the Visa Section - a pattern over a number of years where issuing such vises was a demand put on State Dept. personnel by local CIA officers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw6YHij-aCU&feature=related

a complex story, suggesting that the so-called ‘hijackers’ were ‘assets’ - very likely patsies who believed they were participating in a ‘terrorism drill’, ultimately flipped live - unwitting useful fools - about 2 -dozen drills running that day

longer more expansive, but you have to put up with AJ to get to the meat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmjAg_-Vi9Y

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By radson, March 25, 2011 at 8:52 pm Link to this comment

Let me see now ,oh yes!

The North American Indians
The Mexicans
The Spanish
The Philippines
The Cubans
Chile
Nicaragua
Argentina
Honduras
Haiti
Vietnam
Laos
Cambodia
Sumatra
Iraq
Afghanistan
Somalia
Sudan
Yemen
Ethiopia
Eritrea
Japan
Yugoslavia
Iran
Pakistan

Quite the GRYM Reality

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Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, March 25, 2011 at 8:21 pm Link to this comment

Garard,

I have always engaged you to speak to the core issues when events come about.  I have never attacked you personally.  In fact I have more respect for your sentimentality than you seem to appreciate.

You opined that we’re in the questioning stage.

You have a great many criticisms of your favorite subject, the United States.  When I ask about others parts of the world you never fail to detour.  Never once.

If I ask you why the entire Arab Muslim world would elect to take action against Qaddafi, at this time, you would point to some ill deed of the United States while completely ignoring the Arab League and Western European issues with Libya.

That is why I pose the questions I do.  The real-world questions you have never once attempted to tackle.  You simply lean back and write even more about high ideals.  Ideals I respect, however,....

Why not be specific and share with us the way to apply the many conflict mitigation tools you write of?  Pick any trouble spot on the globe and apply these tools for us. - Preferably without mentioning your favorite subject.

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By radson, March 25, 2011 at 7:28 pm Link to this comment

Gerard

“alternatives to violence..”

You must understand that for these folks ,there is no profit to be made through Peace ;War is big business ;oh and one more thing America is in the process of achieving ‘Demographic Stability’ as Henry
Kissinger said ‘control the oil -you control nations,control the Food -you control the People’

cheers

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By gerard, March 25, 2011 at 6:53 pm Link to this comment

GRYM:  When words like “opine” suddenly begin to appear under this moniker and complex sentences are suddenly constructed without flaw, we can surmise that GRYM is more than one person.  Interesting.  Either that, or he’s got two heads.  In which case
he is perfectly capable of understanding anything I might write, and probably knows more than I do about “alternatives to violence..”

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Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, March 25, 2011 at 3:29 pm Link to this comment

gerard,

You are often specific in your condemnations of how others are going about handling global events.  I see no harm in asking specific questions.

For months I have kindly and patiently asked question which speak directly to the many issues you’ve commented on.  If I am taunting of late it’s due to you never actually answering the tougher questions.  The questions that we all demand be asked regarding tough situations and events.

You opined on the value of bringing to bear various avoidance tactics that could prevent and/or mitigate the rise of dictatorships….”,

I am sincere when I write that your high ideals and platitudes sound great.  Truly they do.  Can you simply attempt some specifics regarding what and how we should be addressing these issues? Libya, Pakistan, India and China, for example?

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Napolean DoneHisPart's avatar

By Napolean DoneHisPart, March 25, 2011 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment

Shills and Lackeys abound gentlemen, especially on the staff of TruthDig… so, how much more on the forums from anonymous sources?

Report this

By gerard, March 25, 2011 at 2:47 pm Link to this comment

GRYM:  Your comments are increasingly taunting in tone.  Are you by any chance enjoying yourself by attempting to undercut someone else?

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, March 25, 2011 at 12:21 pm Link to this comment

PART I


How Mossad Got America to Bomb Libya (1986) & Fight Iraq

Victor Ostrovsky and Claire Hoy, By Way of Deception

———

“I nodded. I’d still been in the Mossad when that order was given, and because of my naval background and acquaintance with most of the commanders in the navy, I participated in the planning for the operation as liaison with the navy.

A Trojan was a special communication device that could be planted by naval commandos deep inside enemy territory. The device would act as a relay station for misleading transmissions made by the disinformation unit in the Mossad, called LAP {footnote: LAP: LohAma Psicologit. Psychological warfare, or, as it’s known in the West, disinformation}, and intended to be received by American and British listening stations. Originating from an IDF navy ship out at sea, the prerecorded digital transmissions could be picked up only by the Trojan. The device would then rebroadcast the transmission on another frequency, one used for official business in the enemy country, at which point the transmission would finally be picked up by American ears in Britain.

The listeners would have no doubt they had intercepted a genuine communication, hence the name Trojan, reminiscent of the mythical Trojan horse. Further, the content of the messages, once deciphered, would confirm information from other intelligence sources, namely the Mossad. The only catch was that the Trojan itself would have to be located as close as possible to the normal origin of such transmissions, because of the sophisticated methods of triangulation the Americans and others would use to verify the source.

In the particular operation Ephraim was referring to, two elite units in the military had been made responsible for the delivery of the Trojan device to the proper location. One was the Matkal {footnote: Matkal: Top military reconnaissance unit of the Israeli army} reconnaissance unit and the other was Flotilla 13, the naval commandos. The

{p. 114} commandos were charged with the task of planting the Trojan device in Tripoli, Libya.”

~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for the rest…Vans were used by the Israeli Mossad… the Israeli Mossad “High Fivers” with their white van & the moving company in NJ…9/11…


http://mailstar.net/ostrovsky.html

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, March 25, 2011 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment

PART II

How Mossad Got America to Bomb Libya (1986) & Fight Iraq

Victor Ostrovsky and Claire Hoy, By Way of Deception

———

On the night of February 17-18, two Israeli missile boats, the SAAR 4-class Moledet, armed with Harpoon and Gabriel surface-tosurface missiles, among other weaponry, and the Geula, a Hohit-class mlsslle boat with a helicopter pad and regular SAAR 4-class armament, conducted what seemed like a routine patrol of the Mediterranean, heading for the Sicilian channel and passing just outside the territorial waters of Libya. Just north of Tripoli, the warships, which were vlsible to radar both in Tripoli and on the Italian island of Lampedusa, slowed down to about four knots - just long enough to allow a team of twelve naval commandos in four wet submarines nicknamed “pigs” and two low-profiled speedboats called “birds” to disembark. The pigs could carry two commandos each and all their fighting gear. The birds, equipped with an MG 7.62-caliber machine gun mounted over the bow and an array of antitank shoulder-carried missiles, could facilitate six commandos each, while towing the empty plgs. The birds brought the pigs as close to the shore as possible, thus cutting down the distance the pigs would have to travel on their own. (The pigs were submersible and silent but relatively slow.)

Two miles off the Libyan coast, the lights of Tripoli could be seen glistening in the southeast. Eight commandos slipped quietly into the plgs and headed for shore. The birds stayed behind at the rendezvous pomt, ready to take action should the situation arise. Once they reached the beach, the commandos left their cigarlike transporters submerged in the shallow water and headed inland, carrying a dark green Trojan cylinder six feet long and seven inches in diameter. It took two men to carry it.

A gray van was parked on the side of the road about one hundred feet from the water, on the coastal highway leading from Sabratah to Tripoli and on to Benghazi. There was hardly any traffic at that time of night. The driver of the van seemed to be repairing a flat tire. He stopped working as the team approached and opened the back doors of the van. He was a Mossad combatant. Without a word said, four of the men entered the van and headed for the city. The other four returned to the water, where they took a defensive position by the submerged pigs. Their job was to hold this position to ensure an escape route for the team now headed for the city.”

~~~~~~~~


Click on link for details:


http://mailstar.net/ostrovsky.html

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Napolean DoneHisPart's avatar

By Napolean DoneHisPart, March 25, 2011 at 9:55 am Link to this comment

Message to the Schill known as Scheer:

“Be Consistent - Invade Your Obstinate Conscience and Mention Tower 7 Next Time You Dare Mention 9/11.”

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A Khokar's avatar

By A Khokar, March 25, 2011 at 9:08 am Link to this comment

Robert Scheer:Believe you me there will be No invasion of Saudi Arabia that intellectuals may have their craving to press for:
Two of the Arab tyrants of Tunisia and Egypt are down. All the other dictators are shivering in their pants and no one wants to be marked as the third Arab dictator to go down like the earlier two.
Although the recent wind of change through non-violence, classless and secular uprising may be jolting the regimes locally but it is most distressing for the western power and their interest. They feel utterly frustrated as the new change is expected to leave them high and dry in the long run.

Out of all this set up dictatorial regimes in Middle East and North Africa, Muammer Ghadafi although a dictator in the list but is an odd man out that he does not obey the western masters’ command and prefer to remain out of ‘Arab Dictators club’. Hence in order to thwart and frustrate the revolutionist and divert and ditch the fast moving wind of change in the region———the Arab Dictators club has decided to make the odd man out Muammer Ghadafi of Libya——a scapegoat.

For his tyranny Muammer Ghadafi on any accounts may not be graded a lesser or bigger evil than any of the other tyrants like in Saudi Arabia, Syria or in the Emirates of Gulf.Muammer Ghadafi is known for his blatant posture at home as he remains pitched against other smaller tribes in Libya.
Reportedly the Libyan tribes in the East around Benghazi city have fallen prey to the exploitation of western subversive forces in the East. France is in lead and finding it ripe to bring about a change in Libyan regime and install peoples of choice in the country from where Europe draws most of its oil. France has instigated the tribes around Benghazi to rebel against Muammer Ghadafi. Rightly or wrongly Ghadafi has moved its forces to suppress the uprising.

For the known Libyan tribal turmoil and the blatant leadership of Muammer Qaddafi, all the tyrants of Arab world have joined hand against Ghadafi. OIC the (Organisation of Islamic Conference) with connivance of oil producing states, GCC (Gulf cooperation Council) have very sheepishly asked the European coalition to make a move to support the rebels in the east and to dislodge the odd man out Muammer Ghadafi from the power.

Very tactfully France and UK approached the UN to pass a resolution against Ghadafi regime to implement a no fly zone against Ghadafi Forces to control the uprising in the country. On this pretext and in the light of UN resolution 1973 since forged; all the possible capabilities by which Ghadafi may make move to exercise his command over his country are being barred by destroying his armed forces and leave them crippled. Libyan Air force is virtually taken off from the Libyan skies as well as his command and control structure.

Reportedly the rebels known as Nation council are being armed and supported by Arab regime of Saudi Arabia, European as well as US.  This is likely to plunge the country of Libya into a civil war. The main eastern Cities like Tabruk in the east, Benghazi and Ajdabiya are in the control of the rebels of national council.  After implementation of No fly zone by NATO forces Ghadafi forces are also subjected to No Drive zone from the air strikes by the NATO aircrafts patrolling 24/7 the Libyan skies.

Jasmine revolution which is classless, non-violence Ghandian move to bring about the sure changes in the societies of the Middle East to grant the enslaved masses with their freedom and breaking of shackles of their subjugation from the oppressive forces. This movement is the most potent weapon in the hands of masses against all the oppressions and any such move of old colonial powers to thwart its progress. These moves may no more be significant to divert and ditch the wind of change found sweeping and advancing in the Arab lands to bring a real change that masses envisage so.

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Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, March 25, 2011 at 7:21 am Link to this comment

garard,

Yes.  The value of bringing to bear various avoidance tactics that could prevent and/or mitigate the rise of dictatorships and violence. 

Why not apply a few examples for us, using real world situations, so that we can all learn of these avoidance tactics you wish us to consider?

Tens of millions of people are suffering in China.  That suffering has nothing to do with the United States.  Using your avoidance tactics, give us some solid examples of what you write about, that may mitigate the suffering and possible uprising in that one part of the world.

Pakistan/India is another violent hot spot on a globe of roughly 6 billion people residing in 192 separate nations.  Another example of suffering having nothing to do with the United States. 

Can you please lend us some examples of what you’re calling on us to consider?

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By gerard, March 24, 2011 at 11:46 pm Link to this comment

GRYM:  I asked the question to get suggestions from others for alternatives to violence.  Do you have any?  If not, kindly bow out and let others consider the question without your prejudicing it by casting negative aspersions.  Thanks.

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By radson, March 24, 2011 at 9:21 pm Link to this comment

Gerard:why not ask GRYM how this is to be achieved ,since America is well on its way to SELF implosion thanks to the Anglo aspect of her existence

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Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, March 24, 2011 at 9:07 pm Link to this comment

garard, - “Please support and enlarge my comments on the value of bringing to bear various avoidance tactics that could preventand/or mitigate the rise of dictatorships….”,

-

Why not choose one embattled region of the globe and give us all a few solid examples of how to achieve what you seek? Be specific on how we may satisfy all parties involved, thus keeping the peace.

Perhaps India/Pakistan.  Maybe share a few words on China.

China, for example: It’s very possible that what we’re all seeing in N. Africa and the Middle East may be witnessed in China in a very big way.  How do you propose to quell potential violence and satisfy both the protesters and the government if this should happen? Before, as you say, any violence breaks out.

High ideals may lasts 15 minutes in peace talks.  Eventually everyone must be explicit in their respective solutions.

Show us the way.

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JDmysticDJ's avatar

By JDmysticDJ, March 24, 2011 at 6:16 pm Link to this comment

Why all this angst about bloodbaths? Bloodbaths are actually very useful. Well, actual bloodbaths are not useful; it’s claims of future bloodbaths that are useful. Actual bloodbaths generally lead to accusations, recriminations, justifications, apathy, denial, anger, hatred, and future bloodbaths. Where bloodbaths, i.e. fear of future bloodbaths, is useful in justifying actions that will create a bloodbath.

These predictions of future bloodbaths have led to bloodbaths, for at least a century or more. As just one example, the bloodbath perpetrated by the Khmer Rouge, was a result of the U.S. invasion and bombing of Cambodia, because the U.S. claimed there would be a future bloodbath in Vietnam if the U.S. failed in its hygienic bloodbath endeavors.

Personally, I don’t think that bloodbaths a very cleansing, except in the case of ethnic, religious, political cleansing, etc. Generally, modern experts in the field of hygiene don’t put much credence in bloodbaths. Bloodbaths tend to be odorous, and uncomfortable; it is best to avoid bloodbaths whenever possible, but that is just my opinion. Frankly, I can only conclude that bloodbaths stink, but there were certain primitive cultures that believed urine made for an excellent shampoo. Thankfully, we in the West are civilized now, and we have moved way beyond, bloodbaths, urine shampoos, and the like.

Do not confuse the behavior of Vempires with bloodbath behavior; Vempire behavior is a wholly different concept. A Vempire consumes blood to sustain itself; and hygienic concerns regarding blood can not be, in the final analysis, of much importance to Vempires.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, March 24, 2011 at 5:13 pm Link to this comment

“Black gold which makes nations mad”?

More likely its water. 

One of the greatest engineering projects of our age is comming to conclusion and yes its in Libya.

http://poorrichards-blog.blogspot.com/2011/03/virtually-unknown-in-west-libyas-water.html

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A Khokar's avatar

By A Khokar, March 24, 2011 at 4:52 pm Link to this comment

Tomahawk Cruise guided missile are very good weapon in engaging pin point targets;

Why the nations on North coast of Mediterranean can produce it but Not on the South?

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A Khokar's avatar

By A Khokar, March 24, 2011 at 4:48 pm Link to this comment

Very shamelessly; it is making of a scapegoat of Libyan leader to quell him on purpose.

By any given standard; other Arab tyrants are Not some lesser evil than Qaddafi?

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By gerard, March 24, 2011 at 4:19 pm Link to this comment

Ssomebody, please ... before I die of loneliness!
Please support and enlarge my comments on the value of bringing to bear various avoidance tactics that could preventand/or mitigate the rise of dictatorships, unjust denial of citizens’ rights and persecutory use of surveillance, propaganda and lies, military and police actions against objectors, critics, and reformers.

If no one addresses these possibilities, that must mean we ourselves don’t recognize how near we ourselves are to becoming just as desperate as Libya, Syria or Bahrain.  Please stop for a moment and think:  There ARE alternatives.

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A Khokar's avatar

By A Khokar, March 24, 2011 at 4:17 pm Link to this comment

Eviction of Qaddafi may only come after a bloody take over by Rival Tribes (Rebels). this exercise is a reinvention of Dictatorship in Libya; Democracy may not see its dawn

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A Khokar's avatar

By A Khokar, March 24, 2011 at 4:14 pm Link to this comment

If Tomato and Cucumber was the only Libya’s export. No coalition forces would have ever formulated to dismantle Qaddafi

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Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, March 24, 2011 at 2:50 pm Link to this comment

“Actually, no entity in modern human history has committed the levels of terrorism, murder, oppression and dispossession that Israel has committed against the Palestinians.”

-

Attack the single truly elected representative democracy in the region?  The only nation in the region which has an independent judiciary and a free and open press?  I think not.

When an individual or nation is surrounded by enemies, whom all daily question your very existence, it tends to make one defensive.  Even dangerous.  Israel is not the exception.

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By gerard, March 24, 2011 at 2:11 pm Link to this comment

Back on track—nobody should advocate “invading” anybody under any circumstances because “invade” means upping the ante with heavy military equipment firing bombs down onto areas and leaving death and destruction and little else.

Not that those who rebel against tyranny are to be left undefended.  Not that murderous dictators are to be allowed to persist.  But the intrusion of other kinds of force—moral, ethical, humanitarian—must be developed, organized, and brought to bear long before the crisis point.

So long as nations continue to think of themselves as unique entities with rights to pursue national interests above all, we can’t get free from the habit of allowing national predicaments to become so inflamed that “revolutions” break out, challenging powerful governments.  Those governments resist with counter-force, and start killing their own people.

A thousand opportunities for avoiding war have been overlooked before things reach this stage.  Why?
Because peace-making requires early non-violent intercessions, negotiations, understandings, revisions, protections, opportunities, innovations.
War-making is not just going to disappear; methods of conscioous avoidance must be discovered and implemented.  That requires new mind-sets, new determinations, new methods.  What else is the UN for?  Why do you think national governments deliberately undermine it and only pretend to honor its principles and purposes?

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By SarcastiCanuck, March 24, 2011 at 1:38 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr./Ms. Denk,your going a bit Apocolypse Now on me here.Yes,war is always cruel,bloody and unfair,but please tell me who has fired the first shots or made the first threats.The threats are to a whole populace and I bet Moammar would cause a lot more collateral(innocents murder)than our guys would.Heres a story on our news up here.Seems that when our guys(Canuck A.F.)went on thier very first bombing run of a military runway,they suspected that there was some civilians on the ground.They turned around and came home with thier payload intact.
  Sir,I am by no means a war monger or violent person,but when confronted by a dangerous enemy your choices are usually fight or die.Even with the collateral damage incurred in Libya,the U.N. mandate is one of noble intent and is meant to save the lives of those to weak or defenseless to defend themselves.I do agree with you though that war sucks and in the end everyone loses in one way or another.Still,I hope someone pays Gadhafi back for the 259 people on board PAn Am Flight 103 and the 11 on the ground in Lockerbie,Scotland.Yes a 1000 pound JDAM up his ass from one of my guys would suit me just fine.

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Napolean DoneHisPart's avatar

By Napolean DoneHisPart, March 24, 2011 at 11:35 am Link to this comment

GoyToy, how dare you go against the direction of the Empire? 

How dare you suggest such a silly thing? 

Do you see what is really going on?

They are trying get us too! 

Why don’t you simply put your head in the sand and believe all the obfuscations poured out by big media?

You mean, the evil doers are not those who are oppressed and harassed…. but the moneyed hired hands working for their pedigreed handlers and all the lackey and shills in between looking the other way and justifying their involvement as just ‘part of my job man’? 

( sarcasm )

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By GoyToy, March 24, 2011 at 10:57 am Link to this comment

Mr. Scheer,
Let’s be consistent. First, we should invade Israel, which has been oppressing and stealing land for more than 60 years.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, March 24, 2011 at 9:58 am Link to this comment

Message to Robert Scheer:

“Be Consistent- Mention Tower 7 When Mentioning 9/11”

... you Schill.

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By Mike789, March 24, 2011 at 9:57 am Link to this comment

Concur SarcastiCanuck ~ [because Ghadafhi is an unhinged flake and he is going to wipe out a large chunk of his population that doesn’t agree with him.]
He can go piss up a rope.

Lafayette ~ [But should we ever get off the carbon molecule…]

Frankly, the 50 year (maybe it’s closer to 40 years) window of opportunity for making a transition off the fossil fuel horse is going to prove to be very crucial for all surviving the next half century. The Middle East may be frothing up now in anticipation of the eventual end of the oil based economies.

The petrol grab ass will crescendo and then inevitably subside. The result, if the rulers continue to sit on their thumbs, will decimate the Middle East. Without another resource or industrial development they are up the creek and will be without means to mollify the masses with subsidies. It will not be just a ripple effect worldwide. 

As an after thought, Dubai may survive as a investment and merchantile clearing house for the ME.

Conclusion: “Get ye to your gated community.”

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By radson, March 24, 2011 at 9:24 am Link to this comment

CONsistency comes from Moderation and Stability all wrapped up within a Global CONstruct

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By Lafayette, March 24, 2011 at 5:01 am Link to this comment

DANCE WITH THE DEVIL

JMM: Let’s not forget, there is a nervous trade-off in that country.

Indeed. Many Saudis also fund alQaeda.

Is that a good reason to invade the country and takeover its oil? Yes, in some circles, but will we do it? Of course not.

We have an ambivalent attitude towards the Saudis. And were it not for the Petroleum Industry Lobby, we might not have had as much dependence upon Saudi oil.

So we dance with devil and sport a S.E.G all the while.

But should we ever get off the carbon molecule as our main source of energy, then Washington wont give a fig for that country. Let alone send Our Boys to die in order to save it.

Once Hussein had Kuwait, it was just a matter of time that he went for Riyad. There was no love lost between Hussein and the Saudi Family.

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By Lafayette, March 24, 2011 at 4:53 am Link to this comment

ITW: C’mon, AS! You can’t even say that about the last 10 years, much less “modern history”.  Consider Darfur, Rwanda, and Congo.

Good rebuttal and factually exact ... but be careful about feeding the drones.

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By J. Mezure Carter, March 24, 2011 at 3:07 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

So what are we suppose to do with those $600,000 to a million missiles?  We cannot do a Monday morning analysis until we answer that question.  So what is the purpose of WEAPONS?  Are they supposed to be an example of our ingenuity?  Should we just let them be on display on various days like Memorial Day or the Fourth of July?  Can you clean your house with them or use them to wash your dishes or to cook your food?  As you know, making those missiles employed many people.  That’s all we make are WEAPONS.  We can brag about the new tech industries but all we make are WEAPONS.  The tech industries are to make WEAPONS.  Other countries support us because we gave up our manufacturing of consumer goods to provide WEAPONS for our military that must POLICE the world.  WE MAKE WEAPONS.  WEAPONS are to be used for WAR.  The United States is in constant readiness to use OUR WEAPONS.  Those WEAPONS might make us feel powerful and strong but remember they are useless unless we are in a WAR.  We can argue with the government and each other and use such epithets as Democrats or Republicans or conservative or liberal, but not one of us will choose to stop us making those mighty WEAPONS.  Now everybody repeat after me, we make WEAPONS, we make WEAPONS, we make WEAPONS, we make WEAPONS, we make WEAPONS.

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By Alan, March 24, 2011 at 2:36 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

DP (Dissociated Press)
March 24, 2011
New Jersey Truck Stop calls for U.N. protection
A Newark NJ truck stop,
“Augie’s Gas, Oil, and Diesel”
has requested U.N. protection.
“We have a lot of oil here,
the region cannot operate without our oil,
we need help,
we need the U.N., please help us, the South Jersey forces are
killing us!”
United Nations officials have told Dissociated Press reporters that
the matter has been referred to the Security Council.
French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, declared “Cette racaille
du sud du New Jersey ne gagnera pas! Je vous en assure!”
French naval vessels active off the Jersey shore were put on alert
early Thursday.

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By Nap, March 24, 2011 at 2:24 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Been there, done that!

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By James M. Martin, March 24, 2011 at 1:42 am Link to this comment

The Saudis distribute their wealth to some extent and do a lot of things to keep their middle class satisfied with things as they are.  We get much of our oil from them, just as Europe gets much of its oil from Libya.  We don’t have any reason to “go into” Saudi Arabia at this time (and I hope we don’t, ever), but Europe sure has plenty of reason to go into Libya.  We should turn around and go home, handing the operation over to England and other coalition countries.  Finally, of all the nations in the Mideast, known trouble-makers in Saudi Arabia might establish an Iran-like theocracy that is intolerant of Western influences, paranoid and capable to terrorism.  Let’s not forget, there is a nervous trade-off in that country.  In exchange for not trying to impose theocracy on the government and allowing the House of Saud to maintain its monarchy, the kings had to promise that the Wahabists could teach in all the madrassahs.  Wahabists practically live to spew anti-Western venom and their influence on the young is considerable due to their educational leverage.

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By rtb61, March 24, 2011 at 1:26 am Link to this comment

Saudi Arabia has always been the core source of radical Isalm, drive by the Sunni Wahhabist sect if Islam, the national religion. A religious sect brought into power by supporting the illusion of a bunch of rural sheep herders being the Saudi Royal Family.
That same Royal family that launched into an insane pursuit of controlling the whole middle east as well as south east Asia, via manipulation of the national religion it brought to prominence.
Why has Saudi Arabia escaped, quite simply, it learnt the lesson of Israel and bought it’s piece of control of the US government, going price about $100 million per annum.
Not only do you get away with blatant global religious warmongering but for that you also get a free army willing to let it’s soldiers die for your causes and also can get that money back with about ten times more in return stripped from the US treasury, US lobbyist of course demand a 20% to 50% commission but that still 500% profit and substantial control of the US government.

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By Ayn R. Key, March 23, 2011 at 10:59 pm Link to this comment

Be careful when making suggestions like this.  The warmongers won’t know you are being ironic or sarcastic.  Some neocons advocate wars even Bush wasn’t stupid enough to wage.

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By Robert, March 23, 2011 at 9:53 pm Link to this comment

DEAR MR TZABAR, - a short documentary about a remarkable man and his conscience…


March 21, 2011


Gilad Atzmon


This is a film about the one and only Shimon Tzabar, one of the very few honest Israelis..

I often disagreed with Shimon, however,  being artists we managed to live with our differences.


I miss Shimon


Shimon Tzabar (5 March 1926, Tel Aviv – 19 March 2007, London).”


*******

A truly remarkable human being, “one of the few honest Israelis”, who spoke out against Israel’s Zionism & its injustices against the Palestinians. As I watched this 26 minute video, I was truly moved by Shimon Tzabar’s decency & his moral courage. The Israelis tried to shut him up, he decided to move to London and continued to write & speak out against Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians.

Just watching this video, one can see all what Shimon Tzabar is talking about…Israel’s IDF confronting Palestinians in the most barbaric ways & much more.

Click on link to view video & this remarkable human being:

http://bit.ly/kHZIl4

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By thebeerdoctor, March 23, 2011 at 8:36 pm Link to this comment

Thanks to Publius for posting the link to the Collateral Damage pdf. Although it does not claim to have the answers for that event that in-tune progressives completely dismiss, or even discuss, it does raise some very important questions that need to be asked. Was that entire Nine One One monstrosity created, not out of religious intolerance, or any Machiavellian political plot, but simply to destroy evidence of a monumental fraud and international robbery? Perhaps the “banality of evil”, in the end, has the final say.

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By Inherit The Wind, March 23, 2011 at 8:28 pm Link to this comment

Actually, no entity in modern human history has committed the levels of terrorism, murder, oppression and dispossession that Israel has committed against the Palestinians.
**************

C’mon, AS! You can’t even say that about the last 10 years, much less “modern history”.  Consider Darfur, Rwanda, and Congo.
Go back 20 years and add in the former Yugoslavia, Saddam’s gassing of the Kurds.
Go back another 20 and there’s Pol Pot in Cambodia, the horrendous massacres in Ethiopia, just to name a few.

Add another 10 and you have the massive slaughters of millions by Mao in the “Cultural Revolution”, AND the deaths of millions in Viet Nam, at the hands of all parties.

That’s from 1961 to now—surely that’s “Modern History”.  I was in kindergarten that year.

Facts are worth debating.  Emotional statements that “something is ‘the most’...” that can be easily disproven by facts are not arguments.

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By MeHere, March 23, 2011 at 8:10 pm Link to this comment

Please, Robert Scheer, “be consistent, invade Saudi Arabia” ???  Ssh…they may hear you and do just that.  Taking everything into consideration, I’d say our leadership is more out-of-control than the leadership in the countries we bomb. What the US needs to hear is what they’ve been told over and over long ago: Yankee Go Home. 

We need all the resources and strategies we have to rebuild this country so we can at least aim at living within our borders, within our means, and with a restrained and inventive energy policy.  A good slogan would be: “No, we can’t have everything.”

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By denk, March 23, 2011 at 7:54 pm Link to this comment

SarcastiCanuck,
*I hope its one of my guys who puts a 1000 pound JDAM up Moammars ass *

+Canadian politicians boast that Canada’s pilots flew 10 percent of the sorties against Yugoslavia, the third greatest number, after the UK and the US. They don’t mention the obvious implication: Canada killed 10 percent of the people+
http://tinyurl.com/y4868hj

+while we take care of some nasty business in the dessert. The Canadians also participated. Joining “the largest ever helicopter assault involving the Canadian air force,” Captain Mathieu Bergeron of Edmonton gushed, “There are helicopters everywhere. It’s awesome.+
http://tinyurl.com/2wc8bov

awesome eh, tell that to those poor kids at the receiving end of ur jdams, gattling guns, hellfires, du shells…
+It’s not going to take too many more days until there’s nothing left of them.” ... “shooting fish in a barrel” ... “basically just sitting ducks” ... “There’s just nothing like it. It’s the biggest Fourth of July show you’ve ever seen, and to see those tanks just `boom,’ and more stuff just keeps spewing out of them ... they just become white hot. It’s wonderful.+
http://tinyurl.com/y3vz2o8

really awesome eh ?

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By Ralph Kramden, March 23, 2011 at 6:40 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr. Sheer, Mr. Sheer, you are absolutely right but please keep it in mind next time you decide to congratulate this Nobel-Prize winner about something or other. Obama is worse than Bush. He pontificates about Democracy in other lands but not in Wisconsin. Then we have the blind eye in Honduras. Next we have the blind eye in Colombia and the unlimited gall in Haiti when the USG tried to stop Aristide from returning. It was OK to allow Baby Doc to return. Hypocrisy is practiced at it’s highest form in England and the USA. It may have something to do with the Puritanical, Protestant streak.
Let us dump Obama and find an option such as Kucinich or Nader.

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By TDoff, March 23, 2011 at 6:30 pm Link to this comment

Why all the emphasis on ‘Consistency’, as if it were desirable? Why change things now?

Wasn’t it the Pope who said, when questioned about his always-changing positions on everything, including his own infallibility, ‘Consistency is the mark of small-minded infidels and heretics’?

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By TAO Walker, March 23, 2011 at 5:59 pm Link to this comment

Do you suppose the Lemming People also have “leaders” (elected, “self”-appointed, high court-installed, hereditary, divinely righteous, or what-have-you) to usher their own “huddled masses” over the cliff?  Some zoologists say the Lemming People, also, make those periodic DEAD END runs after over-breeding and over-grazing their habitat.  Nah….to go through the idiotic charade of a “political process,” too, would just be adding gratuitous insult to grievous injury.  Of all the Peoples in The Living Arrangement of our Mother Earth, only tame Two-leggeds do that.

Here they go again, too.

HokaHey!

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By V, March 23, 2011 at 5:17 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Be Consistent - Invade Israel

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By WriterOnTheStorm, March 23, 2011 at 4:59 pm Link to this comment

The cynical interpretation, and perhaps not co-incidentally, the one that makes
the most sense, is that intelligence reports have concluded that the most likely
power to emerge in Libya after Gadhafi would nationalize the oil as Chavez did in
Venezuela.

Not willing to risk this, Sarkozy put this hasty coalition together as a cover for
covert operations with the overall aim of bringing a friendlier face to power.

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By Publius, March 23, 2011 at 4:40 pm Link to this comment

Any one here read Collateral Damage 911? It’s available here:http://www.israelshamir.net/Contributors/Colla teral_Damage_911.pdf.
  I bring this up because I have a bone to pick with the ever so righteous Mr. Scheer, whose writings I only discovered after Sept. 11, in a major media rag. It seemed to me then that Mr. Scheer was sitting on a lot of seething anger. It was not, however, enough anger to make him speak the truth - that 911 was an INSIDE job.( That little 59 page pdf that’s linked above explains WHY.)
  Anyway, my point here, Mr. Scheer, is that I have no tolerance for righteous “pen pundits” who lack the courage to speak the truth, because I am sure, inferred by my reading your words then, that you KNEW.
  But, of course, if you speak the truth, who will ever publish you in the majors?

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By madisolation, March 23, 2011 at 4:25 pm Link to this comment

dixieforever writes about Obama:
“He has done a good deed and that deserves our praise.”
So you’ll be happy to give up your Social Security so the government can, in turn, give it to the Defense Industry in order to pay for these bombs?
Wait till Obama says you’ve got to “share the sacrifice” for these wars by gutting services for the middle class and poor.

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By madisolation, March 23, 2011 at 4:19 pm Link to this comment

Arabian Sinbad wrote:
“Since we are on the issue of consistency, why doesn’t Mr. Scheer suggest that we invade Israel?!”
That is a very, very good question and is the elephant in the room. Never is Israel mentioned. They scream “Iran! Iran!” like that country is ready to detonate some evil weapon on the entire world, but Israel can starve and steal and murder Palestinians year after year. Talk about a group of people being in desperate need of a humanitarian mission. Why aren’t we going after Bibi’s compound?

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By SarcastiCanuck, March 23, 2011 at 3:08 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr.Scheer,I fear that you are blowing this out of proportion.The U.N. mandate is to protect eastern Libyans from being exterminated by crazy Ghadhafi.When they revolted,Ghadhafi threatened them with genocide.When the Saudis revolted,the king gave the people a pile of money,now how American is that,huh.Yes there is a level of hypocrisy here but Libya’s warring is happening right now.Remember Rawanda?Plus,this isn’t Obama’s war but a U.N.mandated coalition that America is doing the majority of work on.
  As a Canadian,my guys have six,CF-18s dropping bombs as well and we aren’t doing it so America can control the oil or rule the middle east.We’re doing it because Ghadafhi is an unhinged flake and he is going to wipe out a large chunk of his population that doesn’t agree with him.We respect the underdog and are risking our boys lives to protect them.Personally,I hope its one of my guys who puts a 1000 pound JDAM up Moammars ass as payback for those poor innocent people who died over Lockerbie Scotland.Otherwise,I love your work sir…

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By TDoff, March 23, 2011 at 2:48 pm Link to this comment

Can you imagine if the Romans had the ‘Net!? And all the stuff that would have been written as the Caesars sent their legions all around their known wor1d, effing-up everywhere they went?
‘Course, the speed of communication of their ‘Net would have been slowed considerably, as everyone who wanted to bitch had to translate their thoughts into Latin.

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By thebeerdoctor, March 23, 2011 at 2:37 pm Link to this comment

Claiming the desire to be consistent about U.S.
interventions is one of those stupid liberal mind
game exercises that the “outraged” progressives use
to toot their moral superiority. It must be difficult
for Robert Scheer to come to grips with the fact that
the man he supported for President of the United
States, is to be sure, a reprehensible liar and war
mongering fraud.

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By drbhelthi, March 23, 2011 at 2:31 pm Link to this comment

“Really? Who are we protecting, and how are we protecting those, who are doing what Gaddafi’s doing? Are the Saudi’s bombing their people with planes and Howitzers? Is Hamas, or the PA, bombing alestinians? Is Israel bombing Israelis? How did we protect Mubarak against his people?”  Rico

Certainly not! As long as the leadership aligns with the USGov, Gadhafi types are provided munitions and political support.

Until the USGov shadow government sent the CIA entourage into Libya, Gadhafi had no need to protect his castle. Once the USGov shadow gov. no longer needs the “emperor” in subject, the CIA is sent in to organize an uprising, as in Egypt or Libya. Or, such as Sadaam Hessein, who went into business for himself, without the GHWBushSr entourage approval, he and countrymen are simply blown off the map and the land polluted with depleted uranium munitions.

And Hilly is forced to cover for the US shadow gov.  Sweet Hilly, in the short time you have left, why not undo some of the mess that was more or less forced onto you at the age of 25 ?  Are you going to permit evil men to manipulate you to the very end?  It would be wonderful to see your creative ability doing good for mankind.

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By TDoff, March 23, 2011 at 1:59 pm Link to this comment

Patience, Mr. Scheer, patience. At the rate the US is engaging in ‘Shock and Awe’ and invasion and occupation of other nations, the Saudis turn will come. Probably before the Brits, and soon after the French.

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By dixieforever, March 23, 2011 at 1:51 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr.Muhammad Zamiluddin Khan

Saudi Arabia is not a Vatican to the Muslims nor the Saudi monarchs, or any religious leaders there, anywhere close to he Pope! I find the comparison most unbelievable. The saudis will be the first to deny all such comparisons.

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By Arabian Sinbad, March 23, 2011 at 1:36 pm Link to this comment

Since we are on the issue of consistency, why doesn’t Mr. Scheer suggest that we invade Israel?!

Actually, no entity in modern human history has committed the levels of terrorism, murder, oppression and dispossession that Israel has committed against the Palestinians.

No entity in modern history was condemned in the United Nation forums as that of Israel, with our so hypocritical sad United States always coming on the side of the Zionist terrorist entity, known as Israel; casting vetoes to protect the terrorists and support them.

No entity like terrorist Israel ever received the billions of annual dollars the United States offers to enable Israeli terrorism and colonialism of Palestine.

No entity in the history of mankind has ever received the amount of deadly weapons the American military-industrial complex provided, and continue to provide, to terrorist Israel.

And I can keep going on till I suggest that to be consistent, why doesn’t the world put together a coalition of fair-minded freedom-fighters to invade the United States of America to stop it from continue supporting selectively the Israeli terrorism and colonialism of Arab-Muslim lands?!

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By felicity, March 23, 2011 at 1:33 pm Link to this comment

It’s an educated guess that the Merchants of Death,
regardless of their place of residency, are busily
supplying G. with as many arms as he can pay for.  I’ve
heard that at least Britain and France have told their
Merchants to cease and desist supplying him with arms. 
The blatant absence of such a request by the US
government has not gone unnoticed.

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By Guitarsandmore805, March 23, 2011 at 1:25 pm Link to this comment

Morals! What Morals?

The United States used torture and rendition during the Bush years.

Getmo, in cuba where prisoners are kept without a trial, without due process, forever.

Waco Texas April 19th, 1993, the United States government moved tanks against its own people and the net result was 54 adults dead and 21 children dead.

Kent State University 1970, the Ohio National Guard shot and killed 4 students.

and on and on.

So what morals are we talking about?

We have no morals.

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By rico, suave, March 23, 2011 at 1:14 pm Link to this comment

“...a reprehensible ruler whose crimes, while considerable, are not significantly different from those of dictators the U.S. routinely protects.”

Really? Who are we protecting, and how are we protecting those, who are doing what Gaddafi’s doing?Are the Saudi’s bombing their people with planes and Howitzers? Is Hamas, or the PA, bombing Palestinians? Is Israel bombing Israelis? How did we protect Mubarak against his people?

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By EmileZ, March 23, 2011 at 1:12 pm Link to this comment

Faith: oui oui !!!

EmileZ signing out…

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By faith, March 23, 2011 at 12:48 pm Link to this comment

Excellent article Mr. Scheer !

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By EmileZ, March 23, 2011 at 12:47 pm Link to this comment

Madisolation: thanks for clarifying.

Robert or GILAD ATZMON:

I am with you. Free Palestine. The U.S. is the main actor in this situation. Israel will not quit until we stop enabling. It makes me sick.

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By dixieforever, March 23, 2011 at 12:32 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Sophisticated arguments aside, and perhaps they have certain validity, but the fact is that if Obama and the Allies had not intervened, we would today be regaled to the site of a horrendous bloodbath in benghazi and surrounding areas. That has been prevented and thank God for the timely show of strength by a much malignned president who has not been given a break since he came to office. He has done a good deed and that deserves our praise.

Saudi arabia? Are its armies poised to massacre entire cities?

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By Robert, March 23, 2011 at 12:31 pm Link to this comment

GILAD ATZMON: WHAT ABOUT A NO FLY ZONE FOR THE PALESTINIANS?

MARCH 10, 2011


GILAD ATZMON


“In the last few days the UN have paved the way for a no-fly zone in Libya.

David Cameron and Barack Obama have also agreed to draw up “the full spectrum” of military responses to the crisis in Libya.

British PM David Cameron outlined his conversation with Obama, saying “We have got to prepare for what we might have to do if he [Gaddafi] goes on brutalising his own people…”

I find myself overwhelmed by Cameron’s humanist stand—it seems he really cares about the Libyan people.

And yet, I am left puzzled, for I have never observed Cameron, Obama or the UN being so touched in the same manner by the death of Palestinian civilians, who are also butchered on a daily basis by Israeli air raids. As it seems, in the quote above, Muammar Gaddafi performs far more integrity than Cameron, Obama and the UN. Gaddafi clearly manages to question the Western moralist agenda. If the UN is so enthusiastic to bomb Libya, shouldn’t it really start with Israel?

I would contend that for a moral interventional argument to be justifiable, it must be primarily grounded on moral integrity.

If America and Britain are, indeed, ‘morally driven’ why do they fail to protect the people of Palestine? Why do they allow Israeli airplanes decorated with Jewish symbols to drop bombs in Gaza? Is it because Israeli bombs are kosher somehow?

But I guess that we already know the answers— First, they want the Libyan oil and moral intervention is just a pretext for another oil war . Second, the American and the British governments are maintained financially by notorious Zionist lobbies: In America it is AIPAC, and in Britain it is the CFI. It becomes clear that if we want our leaders to save this planet or at least to perform any kind of ethical integrity, Jewish lobbies must be confronted.

I’d like to suggest to Cameron and Obama that if they behaved morally for a change and imposed an immediate no fly zone on Israel they could contribute significantly to resolving one of the most dangerous conflicts in the world today.”

http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/gilad-atzmon-what-about-a-no-fly-zone-for-the-palestinians.html

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By madisolation, March 23, 2011 at 12:29 pm Link to this comment

EmileZ: Hillary Clinton, Samantha Powers, and Susan Rice. As Stephen J. Walt at Foreign Policy Magazine wrote:
“President Obama took the nation to war against Libya, largely on the advice of liberal interventionists like Ambassador Rice, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, and NSC aides Samantha Power, and Michael McFaul.” I suppose technically Michael McFaul is in the mix, but most writers don’t mention him.
http://bit.ly/jcxBSP

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By EmileZ, March 23, 2011 at 12:00 pm Link to this comment

Dear Madisolation: I will always treasure you friendship, but what is with the “warmongering women” bit???

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By surfnow, March 23, 2011 at 11:45 am Link to this comment

By soccer cleats, March 23 at 2:08 pm Link to this comment


I do think that when the president or anyone that has the power to send troops to another country like we do, probably 80% is because it’s the right thing to do, for human right issues,

Really? 80 percent?  Where did you come up with that figure soccerhead?  Name one, out of the many dozens of invasions and coups perpetrated by Amerika since 1945 that have been for human rights?

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By MK Ultra, March 23, 2011 at 11:42 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Actually, if the US were looking for consistency in the ME (which, of course, it’s not), they would do exactly the same thing to Israel not Saudi Arabia. 

So, yeah, ha ha ha… I felt like telling a really funny joke today and that was it.

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By Mr.Muhammad Zamiluddin Khan, March 23, 2011 at 11:38 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I know the favorite past time in America is to talk about Oil Money that is coming from Saudi arabia to world Economy.And they also think as if Saudi Arabia nis just like another country in Asia.No one takes the burden to tell American Youths and younger generation Saudi Arab is like Vatican for Muslims in America.If someone says a lot against the policy of the Pope on Social Issues,they do not suggest attack on the Vatican-They just argue with the Vatican ON social issues AS Americans.Saudis are debated in the Muslim World as to social policies,and believe me there are 58 Countries were Muslims are the Majority and Over10 Million Americans are Muslims too they all argue about the Saudi Arab’ foreign policy and social policy but all of them want to perform Hajj once in lifetime as Muslims and that is mandatory Pilgrimage for Muslims who are able and also true for over 10 million Muslims and now may I ask is it the disliking to Saudi Arab stem from religious intolerance or oil money and significant of that invested in America creating jobs for Americans-ask Secretary of State James Baker of President Bush Administration-He would agree then why such negative attitude about Saudi Arab or Islam?

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By madisolation, March 23, 2011 at 11:33 am Link to this comment

EmileZ: Thank you! It’s nice to have a friend like you!

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By EmileZ, March 23, 2011 at 11:13 am Link to this comment

Madisolation: Fair enough!!! Skepticism is certainly waranted (and I share it). Keep on keepin’ on my friend!!!

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By Inherit The Wind, March 23, 2011 at 11:05 am Link to this comment

I’ve been silent for months but these un-instigated ad-hominem attacks are absurd.

RD: Did you actually READ what I wrote before you began vomiting invective?  Are you simply too stupid to recognize that your “objections” don’t actually disagree with me?

Or do you just have your head SO far up your butt you automatically assume that ANYONE the US takes MUST be a good guy, even one we now know PERSONALLY ordered the Lockerbie bombling? (from WikiLeaks).

I’ve tried to ignore you but you cannot help yourself, obviously. You MUST act like an @$$#0le.  It’s just a compulsion.

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By abikecommuter, March 23, 2011 at 10:19 am Link to this comment

The wiki leak era continue to unfold first with the flame of Bouazizi, then the feet on
Tahrir Square suddenly darkened by the rape of Lara Logan, now bloodied by Saudi,
Bharain, and libyan quasi monarchs and Israel democratically blowing away civilians…
but only one miscreant not sactioned by the emperor. All the while sitting on the brink of
five nuclear reactors that experts are scaring us with assuarances that they wont blow
up!

And conveniently under wraps for modernism. If the internet was open people would be
able to broadcast their plight from US, French, Israeli, and British bombs and bullets.

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By BBFmail, March 23, 2011 at 10:09 am Link to this comment

Inspite of the many truths concerning the hypocrisy of the US, the author has bought into the standard US procedure of demonizing whoever is our enemy of the day.  Considering our source of news is mainly whatever the government decides is news which is feed daily to the willing and anxiously waiting MSM….why should we believe that Gadhafi is “mad, angry, nutty, a mad dog”...and on and on?  For years the MSM has been no more than a lapdog for the government.  Anyway, I still believe whatever the WashPost, NYTimes, LATimes tells us…and I also believed that smoking was good for us. 

From Worker’s World

The Art of Demonization of Gadhafi

In recent years, however, U.S. sanctions and military aggression against the Gadhafi regime led the government to make concessions and agree to austerity measures demanded by imperialist banks, all of which fueled unrest in the population.

On top of this growing imperialist intervention and pressure, the capitalist media are carrying out a vicious, vindictive campaign against Gadhafi, characterizing him in demonizing, racist terms like “mad dog.” Such terms are never used to describe former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak or other U.S. puppets in the Arab world, from Saudi Arabia to Jordan to Bahrain.

The U.S. has imposed sanctions on President Gadhafi and his family’s bank accounts; by contrast, the U.S. did not impose similar sanctions on Mubarak and his reported $70 billion in bank accounts. While President Barack Obama has publicly called for Gadhafi to step down from office, he treated Mubarak with kid gloves before the resolve of the Egyptian masses forced Mubarak to leave office.

The racist, hostile treatment of Gadhafi is not an isolated example. Another African leader who has been demonized in a comparable manner is Robert Mugabe, president of Zimbabwe. Unlike Gadhafi, Mugabe has been the leader of a national liberation movement, ZANU-PF. Mugabe forced Britain, the colonial oppressor, to the bargaining table in 1979 to work out an agreement in which Britain would subsidize the giving back to African war veterans of millions of acres of land stolen by white farmers. But Britain didn’t live up to the agreement. When Mugabe kept his promise to these freedom fighters by seizing the land, the U.S. and British governments in 2000 imposed genocidal sanctions on the Zimbabwean economy and also sought to isolate Mugabe with a prolonged character assassination. They called him a “tyrant” and “despot” and accused him of starving his people — when the real culprits were “structural adjustment” measures imposed by the IMF, along with periods of severe drought.

The Western imperialists have also made every effort to demonize President Omar al-Bashir of Sudan while funding secessionist movements in the oil-rich South and West of the country, imposing sanctions and bringing criminal charges against him in the International Criminal Court.

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soccer cleats's avatar

By soccer cleats, March 23, 2011 at 10:08 am Link to this comment

I do think that when the president or anyone that has the power to send troops to another country like we do, probably 80% is because it’s the right thing to do, for human right issues, but I’m sure they have other thoughts in the back of their mind also, mainly money, mainly oil, and similar.

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By tedmurphy41, March 23, 2011 at 10:05 am Link to this comment

It must be understood, no matter what is said in its defence, that this Libyan escapade is purely about re-asserting some Western control over an hostile entity (Muammar Gaddafi) of the West; all the other despots are to be considered as friendly entities.
We have, once again, proven ourselves to be reliably untrustworthy and unprincipled “allies” of the Middle East and, to be honest, the rest of the World that we have any influence over.
Where the white man goes, disease, destitution, and death follow.

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By madisolation, March 23, 2011 at 9:32 am Link to this comment

Emile Z: I do realize I was a little over the top in my criticism of Scheer. His point about the hyposcrisy of toppling brutal dictators in one country and not in others is valid. But his last sentence, where he sneaks in “the jury is still out” on whether this is good for the people of Libya shows, to me at least, that Scheer cannot forthrightly express his anger concerning preemptive war, and I do believe his hair would be on fire if the cretin Bush had waged this oil war.
I guess I’m still fuming about what Scheer wrote two weeks ago in his column concerning 9/11:
“It must be said that Barack Obama deserves credit for attempting to show the world that truth will triumph and justice will prevail when even the most dastardly offenders are given their day in court.”
That Scheer lavished such praise on the criminal Obama lowered my opinion of him considerably, and I read what he writes with great skepticism.

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By NeilHy, March 23, 2011 at 9:15 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

By Mike789

“The other elephant in the room is that the Europeans are facing a huge refugee problem if Gaddhafi run through Benghazi.”

“..compelling resolve to eliminate the Colonel and side with the rebels.”

I doubt that was such a great motivator for war as Gaddafi had good relations with Italy regarding migrants. The unfolding events will undoubtedly see a greater number of refugees entering Europe.

The intervention is basic geopolitics. If ‘the west’ can control Libya’s new regime then they can affect many issues that are of interest to ‘the west’. Such as the supply of oil, the currency used for oil sales, support for a corporate media (laughingly described as a free media), banking and finance policy, oil contract. The list is endless. It is about geopolitical influence not necessarily control.

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By Morri Creech, March 23, 2011 at 8:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Long after we have depleted the world’s fossil fuel reserves, the surviving remnants of mankind in a future era will perhaps puzzle over the counter-intuitive strategy of expending vast amounts of oil and energy in anti-democratic campaigns to secure ever-dwindling African and Middle Eastern supplies. Policy makers seem incapable of contending with the reality that we actually consume energy in order to secure, extract, and process it. We are obviously headed toward the end of a paradigm as the west burns vast amounts of petroleum in tanks, planes, weaponry, and military infrastructure to secure the little that is left in the ground. War and occupation require profligate consumption of the very resource it seeks to secure. It is a perfect illustration of clear-headed reasoning applied toward the achievement of collossally stupid ends.

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By surfnow, March 23, 2011 at 8:44 am Link to this comment

Mr.Scheer has it wrong- beginning with the very first premise that Amerika actually ever invades any country to protect “human rights.”

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By FRTothus, March 23, 2011 at 8:24 am Link to this comment

“Americans will quarrel over how, who, or what to
rescue or save, but the idea that the nation ought to
be off doing it is challenged only by a few.”
(Nicholas Von Hoffman)

“The U.S. policy toward Cuba [U.S.-sponsored
sabotage, espionage, terrorism, hijackings, trade
sanctions, embargo, and outright invasion] has been
consistent with its longstanding policy of trying to
subvert ANY country that pursues an alternative path
in the use of its land, labor, capital, markets, and
natural resources. ANY nation or political movement
that emphasizes self-development, egalitarian human
services, and public ownership is condemned as an
enemy and targeted for sanctions or other forms of
attack. In contrast, the countries deemed “friendly
toward America” and “pro-West” are those that leave
themselves at the disposal of large U.S. investors on
terms that are totally favorable to the moneyed
corporate interests.”
(Michael Parenti)

“It is simply not possible to have a multi-billion-
dollar, multi-year tax cut, a Pentagon budget that
will top $500 billion by the end of this decade, a
seemingly endless string of wars for “regime change”
that are paid for through emergency appropriations
over and above the Pentagon’s massive annual
spending, plus massive new expenditures for
intelligence and homeland security, and still expect
the government to meet its traditional
responsibilities in the areas of education, income
security, transportation, health care, housing,
environmental protection, and energy development.”
(William Hartung)

“The ruling elites know who their enemies are, and
their enemies are the people, the people at home and
the people abroad. Their enemies are anybody who
wants more social justice, anybody who wants to use
the surplus value of society for social needs rather
than for individual class greed, that’s their enemy.”
(Michael Parenti)

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EmileZ's avatar

By EmileZ, March 23, 2011 at 8:15 am Link to this comment

Dear Madisolation, I wouldn’t be so hard on Mr. Scheer. I think if you carefully re-read his article, you may find your sentiments are a wee bit misplaced (just a wee bit).

P.S. I know this is off topic, bit what the hell.

Check out Noam Chomsky’s “A Critique Of Madisonian Democracy” at http://www.c-spanarchives.org/program/80140-1

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By madisolation, March 23, 2011 at 7:49 am Link to this comment

“While the jury is still out on whether the West’s attack on Libya will prove to be a boon for that nation’s population..”
Bull! The jury isn’t out at all. Obama and His Warmongering Women stuck their noses in Libya’s business, bombed infrastructure and killed civilians in this war of naked aggression. Every missile we’ve launched costs anywhere from $600,000 to a million dollars. All this should tell us that the jury came back days ago, and they’ve found the executive branch guilty of waging war without debate or consent. 
In my opinion, if so-called progressives who have a national voice (like Robert Scheer) hadn’t made excuses for Obama’s horrible performance these last two years, we wouldn’t be in Libya at all. Scheer, a Viet Nam correspondent, surely knows the horror of preemptive war, yet he says “the jury is still out” on this one. because, you know, It’s Okay If Obama Does It. If Frat Boy Bush had launched this war without debate after escalating in Afghanistan and calling for cuts to social services at home, would “the jury still be out,” Scheer? I would say it would not be, not for the population of Libya nor for our interests at home.

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By ardee, March 23, 2011 at 7:44 am Link to this comment

While I may have certain differences of opinion with Mr. Scheer’s editorial I think that, in a battle of wits Scheer wins in a landslide against ‘the ill wind that blows nobody no good’.

That one who “sees” so clearly yet fails to see the Saudi tanks in suppression of Bahrain’s struggles for freedom is a puzzling lack of vision. That Saudi rulers encouraged the USA to equip an Arab force under Saudi leadership to crush Hezbollah in Lebanon, as exposed by Wikileaks, is yet another blind spot in the “all seeing vision” he boasts about.

Saudi Arabia is ruled by Sunnis and encourages Wahabbists. The oil workers are predominately Shia and the govt lives in fear of Iranian influence crippling oil production. That the USA “likes” Saudi Arabia and dislikes whomever seems a rather childish interpretation of world politics and US interventionism.

I can only chalk up this puzzling diatribe against this editorial as yet another in a series of misplaced loyalties to Obama and the Democrats.

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The_Donnachaidh's avatar

By The_Donnachaidh, March 23, 2011 at 7:44 am Link to this comment

Bang across the subject Lafayette.  Only go with the lefties as far as justice
decrees….  WE ALL NEED ELECTRIC CARS.  Then we can ignore, or not, injustice in
foreign countries where our writ hardly runs.  But the process revealed is
extraordinary and so much a reflection of the conflicts in our own countries…..

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By FRTothus, March 23, 2011 at 7:43 am Link to this comment

“...15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 [came] from Saudi
Arabia…”

Robert Scheer really needs to get his head out of his
ass.

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Mike789's avatar

By Mike789, March 23, 2011 at 7:28 am Link to this comment

The other elephant in the room is that the Europeans are facing a huge refugee problem if Gadhafi run through Benghazi.

The light sweet is certainly a factor, however, it can be found at a cost elsewhere. Compared with a million or so additional moslem immigrants, a long term complex problem, it’s not difficult to access the compelling resolve to eliminate the Colonel and side with the rebels.

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