I ask those who are here
If they have never thought
that this land belongs to us
And not to those who have all
I ask if on the land
You have never thought
That if our hands our ours
Then ours is which they give us

Tear down the fences, tear down the fences
The land is ours,
Is yours, is his,
It’s Pedro’s, Maria’s
Juan’s and Jose’s

Tear down the fences, Tear down the fences
The land is ours,
It is yours, is his, and Maria’s

If with my song I bother
someone who hears it,
It’s certain that it’s a gringo
Or a master of this country

DANIEL VIGLIETTE

TO SWAIN:  The United States invaded Mexican territory back in the 1800’s - we fought the Mexicans and took over their land for our expansion, now referred to as California,Arizona,Texas and maybe another state.  These states were formerly Mexican land.

Only WHEN the government puts up border fencing completely, will any law of this type be effective. Until then, this law is just an example of racial profiling and a start of a military state, which is not what anyone wants. This law sounds too much like military nazism to me. If this law is then enforced, EVERYONE would have to get a passport or some type of ID.  Do you know how much it would cost if everyone had to have a passport PLUS they are not set up to handle such a crowd. If not that,we would have to carry our birth certicates on our person all the time.  How riduculous is that?

Fred Mars:  John Yoo is a law professor, I believe.  He’s still wrong and, IMHO, a criminal.  Antonin Scalia is a HIGHLY respected legal scholar who couldn’t figure out that he was supposed to recuse himself for vacationing with the defendant!  Alan Dershowitz is a law professor and a complete asshole.

Lawyers spend most of their time trying to figure out how to write an interpretation of a law that is directly opposite of its words and intent.

In case you’ve been out to lunch, extreme politics is all we have had from the Republicans (mainly) since Bush Senior. Since then, government has wasted our time with bad legislation—if there was any—posturing, pontificating, demagoguing, and military spending. In between there were brief moments of some sanity but ever so brief.

The products and byproducts have included war, lies, redistribution of income from poor to rich, polarization, the the decline of democracy.

REYNOLDS:  Sorry for the RANT!! I wasn’t trying to be personal in a malicious way. I understand your attitude—-we’ve all got attitude these days.

  As you can see, here and elsewhere the press and politicos are playing the Arizona Bill for all it’s worth. It’s this manufactured hysteria that serves as spin to cover the real and adverse reality that causes harm to the hard working Mexicans seeking work and the Americans suffering blowback from our failed policy.

  Endless Amnesty will solve nothing. No matter what new legislation may be passed Latino politicos and crooked corporate thugs will not allow it to be enforced. It’s illegal to enforce the laws now on the books—why would that change?? The damage and violence on our streets is real—-Americans who haven’t experienced it think they have an opinion. NO AMNESTY!! Viva ARIZONA—Good for them!!

Stopping,searching,and deporting illegals is beyond the resources of Arizona. It will only label the state as bigoted and cause social unrest. There is now no solution to the problem of illegal immigration. Help is on the way.  Illegal immigrants will be granted American citizenship along with the natives of Mexico and Cuba. Cancun and Havana will become apart of the USA.  Buy your vacation tickets now.

ps;
what you complain of, and rightly, is lawlessness which
is not necessarily immigration. kemper marley was a
native.

caballo rojo;
we have this in common; neither of us is certain of
your terms. what you read as helplessness is
contempt. a whinging incapacity seems to be aimed at
rather than issued from me. the power in this
country is with the corporations which, it seems,
would will it so.
the american ethos of my experience is one of
exploiting and discarding workers, immigrant and
otherwise, when not using them as the ready
scapegoats. this society has not failed but survived
unto its over ripe and predictable state of
unwieldiness. hear me; fuck the republic.
no society sustained by moral constancy conscripts
slaves to construct an infrastructure of which use
it denies them. the only place i ever saw separate
accommodations was in washington, d.c. call me
naive, but i detect a stultifying tartuffery in a
creed of liberty and freedom for all except some.
i lived for a dozen years in bisbee and without
hesitation my sympathies are with los viajeros.
if our foundling fawners had had my attitude, we’d
be someplace else, i hope.

It is not possible to stop illegal immigration, because those that want a taste of the American pie will keep on coming even if they have to crawl over the border. The solution is to keep the pie growing so illegals also have a bite to eat. It would be a tragedy due to a recession if food became scarce, supermarkets would be guarded with tanks.

hello. oh gee, i wanna play race discrimination too!
i was completely in favor of trading a few cases of
rum for Negroes to sell to southern Whitey plantation
owners. trouble today is, i do not own the coyotes.
like i wrote about a year ago, not only am i in favor
of putting down a roadway along the border and busing
all the border crossers right to new and modern
immigration offices, i now agree with the new racist
law. this is about 12 million illegal people under
six feet tall. there are an overabundance of illegals
in Arizona. the police have had their hands tied
until this law was signed. if a short person cannot
speak English and has no identification, the police
officer should have the authority to investigate.
what the corporatist have been allowed to get away
with has been detrimental to US society. this is a
positive step, and should send a clear signal to all
the ‘below the radar’ illegals: that there are plenty
of good jobs, and miles of unsettled wilderness; just
across our border in Canada. and hey, we know how
well they will get along with the French Canucks in
Quebec! it is my opinion, our system is not equipped
to handle a million or two immigrants a year, so it
is time to upgrade. they are not floating in by the
boatload- they have been marching en-mass. this is
something that that brownie in office could do,
instead of smoking cigarettes all day. an immigration
czar…hmmm, responsible to no one, and funded by the
tax payer. i’ll take it. government job 86,466,378.

should be—-“founding fathers”—-

I’m an Eliot fan too—but your wounded intellect—I’m helpless—-do with me as you will——poor lost Republic—-hurry sundown—attitude just will not do. The streets here are mean and getting meaner. The power is with the people in America. The illegals issue and all others discussed on this site are spects of one big problem. The Federal Gov. has failed, has no moral center, and is corrupt to the core. We’re all in this thing up to our necks. That latino politicos exploit this weakness and use the “race card” to splinter the nation is reprehensible. If our fouding fathers had your attitude we’d still be a colony.

you’re welcome, gerard. thank you t.s. eliot and
katherine ann porter.

If the Mexican drug gangs also begin targeting law enforcement personnel and journalists on the U.S. side of the border, I think the reaction is going to get even bigger than what is currently going on in Arizona.

what has race to do with anything? everything. it is
incidental which so called race so long as it is other.
humankind cannot bear much reality.

BY THE WAY REYNOLDS: I fully appreciate your point. Only a fool would belive that black market money isn’t going straight to D.C. via the bagmen on K Street.

American latino politicians and chicano racist, militant, separtist have used the illegals issue to Balkanize the country. Neither cares two centavos about hard working Mexicans. (VIVA AZTLAN!!) We now have a nation within a nation. The “race card” is an airball.

  Bush presented a get-in-line bill to solve the problem. Latino leaders demanded amnesty. NO AMNESTY!! Enforce current law. Arrest and jail corporate thugs who exploit illegal workers. If you want to be an American apply at the immigration office. Is that not reasonable?? What has race got to do with it??

when drugs are criminal only criminals have drugs. a
black market concentrates and funnels profits. it is
impossible to not know that. follow the money.
the law, your law, demands mayhem or ciudad juarez
is a coincidence. ain’t nobody in the mix never
heard of al capone.
the guns come from u.s.a. courtesy the mythic and
idiotic so-called judeo-chrisitan values on which
this great country was based; the same credo which
facilitated the usurping of the people who already
lived here (with the help of conscripted labor).
these great if malleable ideals are set forth in a
constitution which says, to anyone who can read
which discounts most of its citizens, i am entitled
to get high.
a society so self-delightedly dull witted does not
stand a chance against itself. hurry sundown.

I don’t believe anyone has a problem with the hard working Mexicans wo come here for work. My problem is with the black market in drugs,illegal documents, gangs, firearms,murder and the general sense of lawlessness I experience on the streets of my city and read about in the papers here daily.

  This black underbelly ( oh my, I used the word black) has a direct impact on the quality of life in Arizona and people are tired of it. We have laws, why aren’t they enforced. The last amnesty didn’t solve the problem. Arizona is doing the right thing.

By ofersince72:
“We all can’t be Socrates” but so many are; he, it
is, at least, consistent. from the abomination of co
opting the name of a thinker to the mindless barrage
of bigoted, reactionary platitudes, he, it betrays
nothing but a foolish consistency.
regarding the question posed by jose ramirez; las
apologías, sócrates son un tonto. those malleable
ideals to which you refer are right where they
always are; within easy reach of those who would
misuse and misinterpret them for cause. if the so-
called socrates is at peace with racism he has a
happy future. to paraphrase the firesign theatre;
no body has to be a slave all the time. we’re going
to take turns. guess whose turn it is.
viva subcomandante marcos.

ardee, April 25 at 8:23 am #

Further, racial profiling, which is what this stupid piece of legislation is really all about, is the work of racists and is supported only by two kinds of people; fellow racists and those who have not given this matter any real thought.
************************************************

To paraphrase another poster “Illegal Immigrants” does not mean illegal immigrants.  It means brown-skinned people from Central and South America. It doesn’t mean the illegals from China or South East Asia, or the sex slave victim/workers from the former Soviet Bloc.  It mean Mexicans and Hondurans and Guatemalans, Columbians, Ecuadorians, etc.

One poster says “There is nothing racist about stopping illegal immigration.”  Well, naturally.  Just like there’s nothing racist about stopping prostitution and pimping.

But it’s how you do it that matters.  You can’t stop every Black man and assume he’s a pimp or every Black woman and assume she’s a whore.  Yet in many cities and neighborhoods police have done exactly that—and been rightly condemned for it.

Likewise setting up a law that supersedes Federal Law (an act of illegal nullification if there ever was one) that gives police the right to DEMAND proof of residency IS racist. 

How many cops in Arizona do you think are going to ask any drawling White people for proof of residency as they will of spanish-accented Brown people?  My estimate is…ZERO!

As for the crime statistics, I’ve NEVER seen any stats that show that illegals have a higher incidence of committing violent crimes than legal immigrants. In fact, just the opposite is true AND HAS BEEN DOCUMENTED!

Most illegals try to stay under the radar.  That means paying taxes without asking for refunds, or using government services.  They rarely commit high-profile crimes because they are already paranoid about the authorities.  In fact, the MAIN cost to society is the capturing, imprisoning and deporting of them.

I’m not even discussing the economic consequences yet.

Border and entry control are the SOLE domain of the Federal Government.  States are not empowered to enforce national boundaries EXCEPT when state militias or their National Guard is requisitioned by the Federal Government.

Despite the code phrase “Illegal Immigrants” meaning Brown people, there is a legitimate national interest in addressing immigration issues.  Ironically, Mexico, which is usually an advocate of fairly open admission to the US, at its own Southern border, enacts policies more restrictive than ours, to block Guatemalans and Hondurans and others from entering Mexico.

REDHORSE, April 24 at 7:21 pm #

Ever consider that the people in Arizona might be tired of lawless criminals, murderers and thugs?? Asking that people enter America in a legal manner isn’t “racist”. I’m sick of the “race card” and the pukes who use it to prevent real dialogue about the topic of ILLEGAL immigration.

Typecasting those who come here seeking work in order to feed their families as you do speaks volumes about your limited vision and little about the underlying causes of this wave of illegals.

Further, racial profiling, which is what this stupid piece of legislation is really all about, is the work of racists and is supported only by two kinds of people; fellow racists and those who have not given this matter any real thought.

We can also thank the FCC for a country full of
zenophobic parrots.

Who said the one out of eight are mean spirited and small minded? Thorough?

So, rfidler says he comes here for intelligent debate and can’t find any. Is it because you lack the intelligence to distinguish propaganda from fact? People like you seem to forget that about of a quarter of this country belonged to Mexico before we invaded it and took it away from them. Up until that time, whites were the illegals. Mexico was nice enough to allow whites to settle within their boundaries and we all know how that turned out.

rfidlers feeble attempts at intelligent debate is to claim that there is none and yet I gave him plenty of opportunity to prove anything I wrote as false and he chose not to. Why is that you suppose? Maybe his patience is that of a spoiled brat who spent all of his life watching TV and believes every silly thing it told him. I can only wonder how many history books, or any kind of book other than a comic book he read after he left high school, or if he even went that far. I have yet to see anyone on the right write here about anything that wasn’t either lies or propaganda or some emotional knee jerk response. Like the claim that they come across the border and murder people, as if there are plenty of people who don’t come across the border and murder. And the ignorant likes of Socrates tries to dismiss his own racism by declaring all of us racists. Socrates would force you to drink his hemlock for him with that kind of reasoning. Soc, you may think that and say it all you want but it isn’t true by a long shot. And even if it were, it wouldn’t make this Law a good one. rfidler and socrates are are proof positive of what happenwhen you continually dummy down the educational system to where you teach people what to thin rather than how to think. Having been born and raised and lived in the southwest for some 67 years I’ve come to appreciate people from south of the border more than the people of this country who think they are smarter, better than everyone else in the world, and entitled to everything. I am a Vietnam veteran and have experienced my government’s wanton disregard for the life of people who are not Americans. As a Peace Corps Volunteer I also saw the results of what happens when our government “helps” other countries. So this racist Law comes as no surprise. As I posted before, the argument used now by the people to justify their own racism has been used before. And the people who have come here and posted their “illegal immigrant” nonsense prove the point by their very own racist comments no matter how much they protest it. Someone once wrote that by his own experience that only one out of every eight people he had met were mean spirited and small minded. I think most of them showed up here!

Good post Norske. I was just going to tell people not to vote for any politician that they have heard of. I dont care if the only one you havent heard of is for spanking unruly children and ignoring stupid women and queers. The pussification of america is wearing. We need a flat tax and a reinstituted draft. A vote for an honest commie is better than a vote for a fucking liar.

Perhaps the real problem lies with the politicians and CEO’s whose policies created the influx of immigration in the first place.

Destabilizing sovereign nations in South and Central America while installing right wing puppet dictators as well as instituting NAFTA and other insane trade policies might have been a precursor to our current immigration imbroglio.

However I think that attacking politicians and CEO’s lacks the visceral satisfaction which so many seem to obtain by beating up on brown skinned people.

We are responsible for our lot in life re: undocumented workers as we are responsible for much of what has occurred in Haiti and elsewhere. Perhaps we should take some responsibility in addressing conditions in those nations from which the immigrants are drained from. I imagine it would be less expensive and more fruitful than our current course.

Of course it is much more profitable to build a fence. That it won’t stem the flow or address the problem matters not. Profit before people.

We have serious immigration problems which need to be solved by serious people, not the jingoist racist rantings of the low informed.

I am hoping that everyone who is stopped and arrested in Arizona sues the state for all they are worth. After losing a few million dollars they will come to their senses soon enough. It’s always about the money.

el gringo es muy stupido

rfidler, I am not saying at all that Venezuela is some sort of utopian dream come true, but the record as shown by world organizations in the UN and regional groups who keep track of these things agree that Venezuela has made impressive advances when compared to US favorites like Colombia, Mexico or Peru. Illegal immigration from Central America spiked during the 80s when Reagan waged a brutal terror campaign all over the region.

For example, our major corporate media NEVER mentions crimes committed by illegal aliens. All this coverage of Arizona and illegals, and no one mentions this murder two weeks ago.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/03/29/20100329rancher-killed-at-arizona-ranch.html

This happens all the time. Illegals come here and many can’t find jobs, so guess what they do? Many are criminal fugitives from other nations. If local police see them acting odd, I hope they approach them and ask a few questions.

One-quarter of those in bankrupt Calif. prisons are illegals! Isn’t that a problem? Many of the homeless living in makeshift tents and homeless shelters in SW cities are illegals. We struggle to provide help to our own homeless, shouldn’t we deport the illegal foreigners to make room? If you had a group of men camp out in a lot near your home, pissing and drinking and leaving trash, you might want your local police to drop by and ask a few questions. Should the police refuse because that is racism?

To clarify, the term illegals comes from Mexico, where they are called “illegales”. They are not undocumented,they have documents, just not the legal ones, so they are illegals.

“First, if you don’t understand why this bill is racist then you too are a racist no matter how many times you say you aren’t.”

WELL EVERYBODY! The Handyman has just shut us poor saps up with his thoroughly unassailable logic. Aristotle would be SO proud.

You know, I jump on this website, hoping for a small glimmer of intelligent debate, and I’m almost, almost always disappointed. Which is why I keep coming back.

It’s keen intellects like the Handyman and Commune115 though that really try my patience. There is no considered thought there, it’s all cheap rants and name calling

Commune115:
“what you forget to mention is that Venezuela has the lowest unemployment in South America and the best access to education and healthcare in the region”

Yeah, sort of like the old USSR commissars used to brag about- zero unemployment, free everything. A worker’s paradise.

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS!!! Where do you get this stuff???

“By Socrates, April 24 at 6:58 pm #

Look stupid, the white people settled in North America and the Spaniard-mix settled in Mexico, Central, and South America.”

But white people also settled in South America and the Spaniards also settled in North America. There are Spanish names in North America like Montana, Colorado, California, and so on.

“The USA is home to Native Americans, Afro-Americans, and the great White race.  Spaniards and their long line of mixed progeny have no legitimate place here.”

The same can be said about Central and South America. You can find a German community in Chile, Blacks in Brazil, for a surprise their are still are natives living in the Americas. You should know every European who settled in South America long time ago did mixed with the natives. Hey did you know Americans also mixed with indians, Erie for you isn’t it! LOL!

As for your last line the Spaniards do have their place in the United States. Just look into your history book about Spain’s support for America in the Revolution War. At that time Spain and France were at war with the English Empire, so they supported the US. Or look into the Hollywood stars, for ex: Charlie Sheen is of Spanish descent.

Are you a ill informed whiny 13 year old are just some douchebag with a whiny 13 year old mentality. Oh you should change you name to Scrotumfullofshit.

Now I see, anyone who opposes mass illegal immigration is racist, even if they are black. So how does the Feds ICE enforce immigration today? They are allowed to ask about immigration status, so does that automatically mean they profile and harass Mexican-Americans? Congress allows this, so I guess most Congressmen are racist, including Obama, since he is in charge of this racism. Maybe we should eliminate ICE and all border enforcement.

This would allow a billion foreigners from Russia, Africa, India, and Latin America to surge across our borders. They can do all the jobs Americans don’t want, which is all, except actors and professional basketball players. This will prove we are not racist. Except maybe we should ban white immigrants, so everyone knows we are not.

Yes, this is nonsense, but I wrote it that way. I am shocked that so many supposed “liberals” and progressives don’t care about American citizens who are unemployed or working for low wages depressed by massive immigration in recent years.

Millions of affordable housing units are filled with illegals, including government housing. Even the mayor of LA complained about this last year,wanting to boot foreigners out of government housing. This wasn’t allowed by the feds, yet why wasn’t that national news? (Hint: The mayor is Mexican-American, so he is allowed to say “racist” things to try to help U.S. citizens.)

There are millions of white, black, brown, and yellow native Americans. I say we do what is best for Americans. The vast majority of Americans agree, yet others are easily fooled by corporate propaganda, which is reflected by their posts here.

Well, it seems like all a lot of the very right-wing willfully ignorant people spoken about in this article showed up. First, if you don’t understand why this bill is racist then you too are a racist no matter how many times you say you aren’t. Second, illegal immigrant is a euphemism for anyone south of the border. When you say illegal immigrant the picture that immediately pops into a persons head is not that of a chinese, a Pole, a German, a Lebonese, that picture is for Terrorists, Rusian, Canadian, Vietnamese, or from anywhere else. We know who those illegal immigrants are and the people who wrote, supported, voted for, and who are absolutely glad it is now law would like the rest of us to think that this law is about making our country safe and helping our economy thereby attempting to hide the fact they are racists. They are the same people who spoke out for slavery or the rounding up of the Jews.

But let’s suppose that we could do the impossible. Let’s suppose that we could round up every illegal alien and ship them back to where they came from. I know here in California that food crops would suddenly be rotting in the field. These people start work at sunup and work until sundown for less than minimum wage, many time knee deep in mud, in the scalding heat, wind, fog, smog, no matter how bad the weather is they are out there doing back breaking work. No white American, and that is who most of you are, is going to go out there and do that job for anything less than $15 an houor and you are going to want health benefits too. Something these illegals don’t get. They also pay social security and income tax, something that they won’t be able to use. Yes, they use the emefgency room as medical care. So what, so do 40 million poor Americans. Oh, and since you are getting paid $15 an hour to harvest lettuce, I hope you don’t mind paying $5 or $6 a head for it, along with the huge increase of all the other fruits and vegetables you eat.

So you say you aren’t a racist and you’d be happy for them to come pick your lettuce as slave laborers if only they would do it legally. Well guess what? We have quotas for immigrants. Do you know what the legal quota for people south of the border is? Zero! Zilch! Nada, Rien! And it has been for 20 years. So, does that change your mind? Make you think like Socrates, Socrates? Of course not! Because you are racists and logic has no place in the racist mine!

But don’t feel bad. You people weren’t the first to use the argument that you weren’t racists, that you just loved your own race, oops, own country so much that you just wanted to protect it. That argument was used about the American Indian who already lived here for Chris’s sake, black slaves, the Irish, the Scots, the Germans,  the Italians, Spaniards, Basque, etc. It has been used against every seceeding wave of people coming to this country. And you all love the home of the brave and the land of the free, hail the almighty Constitution, that is until the rights it gives all men, and women no matter how much you grouse about it, equal protection under the law. Why, it even protects you racist, ignorant fools who would chop off your own noses to spite your face. When I see the racist, ignorant crap you people believe I think that you should be rounded up and sent to someplace where you are housed and fed and all you do is walk on a huge treadmill that generates electricity for those of us who are civlized. You don’t deserve to live in this country because you are unwilling to abide by the rules. Not them, you!

There is nothing racist about stopping illegal immigration.  If the US government had actually enforced its own immigration laws, we wouldn’t be in this mess now.
  Brewer is doing something for her people that Washington will not do: leading them on this issue. The people in Arizona will state their views on this bill at the ballot box. If they are unhappy, this bill will go away.
  Washington only pays lip service to immigration reform, and is in no hurry to change things. Big Business wants a cheap labor pool, and our neighbors to the South are it. Don’t believe for one second that illegal aliens only take the worse jobs around. 
  Jobs are scarce enough in America now that asking us to compete for them against illegal aliens is just a slap in the face to the American workforce.
  Until businesses and corporations are actually punished for hiring these illegal workers, they will not stop coming. If you could make $30.00 an hour in Canada washing dishes, would you go there illegally?
  I can’t fault Brewer for wanting to rid Arizona of illegals. Now, why aren’t the rest of the states doing the same thing? If illegal immigration was Washington’s concern, surely they would have stopped it by now. Since Washington won’t stop illegal immigration, it must be up to the states to decide for themselves what to do about it.

Ever consider that the people in Arizona might be tired of lawless criminals, murderers and thugs?? Asking that people enter America in a legal manner isn’t “racist”. I’m sick of the “race card” and the pukes who use it to prevent real dialogue about the topic of ILLEGAL immigration.

We all can’t be Socrates

“By ofersince72, April 24 at 5:43 pm #

We are all illegal, or non of us are ! “

ofersince72, your use of the word “non” indicates you are a closet mexican.

Look stupid, the white people settled in North America and the Spaniard-mix settled in Mexico, Central, and South America.

The USA is home to Native Americans, Afro-Americans, and the great White race.  Spaniards and their long line of mixed progeny have no legitimate place here.

rfidler, what you forget to mention is that Venezuela has the lowest unemployment in South America and the best access to education and healthcare in the region while its neighbor, US favorite Colombia, has 20% unemployment, stands as the #1 human rights violator in the region and according to the UN, has rural areas worst off than parts of Africa. Now, what does this have to do with illegal immigration? Well, one reason so many people cross over is because Mexico, which has a right-wing, US friendly regime, is a social disaster with millions of unemployed, a collapsing economy and deep repression against those who speak out and try to form movements.

It’s easy to bash the idea of social revolution when you’re sitting nice and comfortable in front of your laptop or on your couch. Unless we carry out genuine revolution or social change which reaches across racial and class lines, we are in for a dose of what Chris Hedges has warned is our own brand of “American Fascism.”

One of the most subversive movies of last year was “The Proposal” with Sandra Bullock.

She’s a successful business exec in NYC, who’s also Canadian and whose work visa is about to expire. She ropes some underling into marrying her so she doesn’t get kicked out of the US.

The subversive part is that never during the story does she or anyone else start screaming for special treatment or waivers, or protesting about xenophobia or sexism or any other sleight of hand misdirection of the real legal issue. Everybody knows the rules. It was a given that she was on the way out of the US if she didn’t convince immigration officials she was truly in love and getting married. I don’t know what Hollywood was thinking when they released that movie, but it sure wasn’t immigration policy.

rfidler,  Turn Rush off…
Him and his buddies that drafted NAFTA created this
problem

What is racist and/or xenophobic about fighting illegal immigration?

I don’t see anything in SB1070 that specifically mentions Hispanics or Mexicans or brown people.

How many Asians and Africans have been denied citizenship based on their race lately? How many Latinos, WHO HAVE APPLIED LEGALLY, have been denied because of their heritage?

While builders and restaurants and rich people with big lawns may secretly welcome illegals, the problem with their status is that they are a drain on social services such as education and health care to which they do not contribute their fair share to support. And since they are not counted in the census, the districts where they reside are further burdened by lack of proportional support from the federal government.

I say, go home, get in line and wait your turn! When your turn comes, Welcome to America!

We are all illegal, or non of us are !

Hi Jose A. Ramirez!

You said, “Where are the ideals of limited government if they are dropped so easily when it is convenient to persecute Hispanics or immigrants?”

Oops!  You forgot to mention the word ILLEGAL.  Don’t you mean, “illegal” Hispanics, and, “illegal” immigrants?

On the Quaker Agitator site this morning they have

  a really good version of Woodie Gutherie"s

  D E P O R T E E
 
  it was never more relevent.

Too little too late.  And who cares if it’s racism?  This country was built on racism.  Hell, this WORLD was built on racism.  Face it.

blaming the unwelcome emigre is akin to blaming the
water in a leaking boat. i suppose now there is a
better understand of how the indigenous peoples felt
when the settlers showed up.
the prospect of change in this society is welcome,
necessary and ineluctable. we might deserve “all the
refugees that come here from our incessant meddling”
more than the side effect of their work ethic and
taxes paid if the huddled masses yearning to be free
were facilitated in their attempts by the imprimatur
of at least provisional citizenship.
it is delusional to think a fence, virtual or
physical, will confound anything but the natural
migration of birds and other wildlife. ciudad juarez
is not someplace else, it’s el paso.
legalize weed. criminalize nafta.

To make your SOCIAL REVOLUTION work, you’ll need a charismatic leader who will promise you all the things you ask for, most importantly, a REAL say in how you will run your own life, and REAL ownership of your country’s wealth and resources.

Such a leader must pattern his Revolution on the eminently successful examples of Lenin, Mao, Castro. These selfless Revolutionaries totally succeeded in wresting the wealth and resources of their nations from the plutocrats and reactionaries of their countries, and turning them over to their rightful owners, an eternally grateful population, which, to this day, are the happiest and most fulfilled communities on earth.

Although China and Russia have backslid in recent years, as measured by the rising number of citizens who are hoarding more money than they should be allowed to have, at least Castro has remained true to his Revolutionary Promise. No plutocrats (unless you count Fidel himself: One of the richest men in the world), no reactionaries anywhere, just complete equality and joy everywhere.

And even though the electricity is failing and the bureaucracy has been coopted by foreigners, Hugo Chavez is on track to enter the pantheon of Heroes of the Revolution. And little Evo is not far behind.

We americans have very short memories, for in the realm of illegal immigration we have always been beggars to our own demise.

Previous generations have caused this exodus from central and south america by our meddling in their politics. It has been a matter of policy that we overthrow or assassinate any left leaning head of state south of our border. We have installed, trained, and supported a long line of brutal dictators and military juntas that have oppressed the people in overt support of big american businesses. How many have been slaughtered and “disappeared” by commandos trained by the american intelligence services? We have created a continent so unhospitable that the people see no alternative but to pack up their families and become econmic refugees and travel over a thousand miles to sneek into the USA for a minimum wage job that will provide for their family a far better life from the brutal nation from wence they came. (a life that many americans would consider downtrodden)

But here lies the rub. while we deserve all the refugees that come here from our incessant meddling, now is the time when we can least afford it. Our nation is suffering from stagnant and depressed wages (not the fault of immigration, but the fault of big american businesses taking their tax breaks and de-regulation and moving operations to 3rd and 4th world nations where they can pay the workers pennies and thus depress wages back here in the USA) We just simply cannot afford a massive influx of millions more people that, by their very presence, will further depress wages and benefits. There is a reason that depite recent economic booms, both India and China are still predominantly third world nations, and that is that they have too goddamn many people! The more people, the more workers, the less employers will pay, it’s simple economics folks.

We here in the good ol USA find ourselves at the begining of a perfect storm. We already have too many people, not enough jobs. We are just begining to see the effects of our dwindling resources. Tax revenues are falling, our infrastucture is falling apart, and we are in turn begining to fall apart. The empire is dying, and we need to look inward for solutions. And I am afraid that includes a rigid immigration policy, and the closing of the borders. Even the best intentioned of us has to admit that instead of pulling the third world up to our level, we are choosing to drop down to theirs. Without a prosperous america the world has almost no chance to beat the resouce, climate, and overpopluation problems that face the world in the coming decades.

Much of the ire aimed at recent laws to stem illegal immigration into Arizona is deserved.. This article could be a primer on all the ways to use language and especially hate-words to denigrate ideas and people. It won’t help build any consensus on the important goal at hand.

And in case one may need to know what that goal is, here goes.. Build a brighter American future for our kids and those of immigrants. A working immigration policy is a big part of that. A policy such as we now have that allows unlimited and even covert immigration is not an option. All the talk of rights and hate and racism or whatever else is just that, talk. And a lot of it is evil talk.

Yet people will scream and accuse until no good comes of it.. Real reform is always stifled by these screaming matches. With the help of our Arizona brothers and articles like this one the current effort will also fail. In the end both immigrants and our communities will lose big.

I live directly on the US-Mexico border and have always had friends and neighbors from across and beyond. Mexicans and other immigrants do not scare me and neither does the influence of Mexican culture insult me. What I can say is that things are different now than when I grew up. Many of the changes are not positive. Much of the worst of that change can be traced to unregulated immigration.

We require a comprehensive policy that serves the needs of our communities as a whole. Not simply another bill targeted to help agri-business or the construction industry.. or even to please noisy immigrant advocate groups or their blabbering counterparts (many of whom are indeed racists).

Unfortunately, between our clueless and corrupt Congress and everyone else clamoring for their piece of the pie (and the spotlight) it’s unlikely we’ll get anything good this time either.

Adios!

“PAPERS BROWNSKIN, WHERE ARE YOUR PAPERS!!!” Oh yeah, Arinazis must be so
freaking proud this fine morning. In the fine print at the very bottom of SB 1070,
is where you’ll find the proviso for any and every Mexican and/or ‘brownie’ to get
themselves “officially” tattooed by the State of Arinazi. Mexicans and/or ‘brownies’
will have to be Arinazi numbered on the forearm and that number shall be
“officially” visible at any and all times by the State of Arinazi Numbers Gestapo.
“WHERE ARE YOUR PAPERS!” No number no livees in Arinazi. No papers well, bye
bye.
Arinazi Gov. Jan Brewer is a fascist swine. Deserving only of ridicule,
condemnation, shame, and a quick exit from office. Commune115 is dead on
correct, SOCIAL REVOLUTION!

What we need is to stop following Limousine Liberals and build real, popular progressive movements from below with an internationalist character. In other words…SOCIAL REVOLUTION.