The democrats’ draft proposal for immigration reform is being posted at various web-sites online.  As I suspected, they are going to use this hysteria about immigration to ram through changes that will allow businesses to import as many workers as they want from foreign countries.  Beginning at page 18, for example, they say that any college graduate can come here and work anywhere they can get a job.  That means CPAs, attorneys, schoolteachers can all kiss their jobs and benefits good-bye, because they will be replaced by foreign workers at obscenely low wages.  Then the next section says that for people without education—businesses can bring in as many of those as they want, too.

These Democrats are sleazier than the Republicans.  At least the Republicans let you know up front that they are dogs.  The Democrats sell us out behind our backs, pretending to be concerned.  We have 20% unemployment and underemployment.  How can these people propose allowing even more foreign workers to be brought in to take our jobs?  Anybody who signs off on that proposal should be removed from office.  Let them go find a new job.

Make Mexico the NewNew Mexico, 51st State of the union. No more illegal border problems. Cheap labor for new business to that state. Increase in Federal Tax Revenues from those very business’ that left for avoidance profits. By the time they become eligible for Social Security for any reason, Social Security will be defunct. A new frontier with great luxury hotels on the coast and drug traffic is already organized. I’m sure if we put our heads together we can come up with even more. Arizona will be saved. No more worries. Well, maybe except how to keep the rest of Central America from crossing illegally over the border into the new USA. How will they ever be able to spot a illegal? Then again, it will now be Mexico’s problem. Sound stupid—yes it is.

What tickles me the most is the exquisite sensitivity we express toward illegals. What other country on earth is wringing their hands and earnestly as we are about people in their countries illegally.

Most of the countries held up as role models of civic maturity by progressives just shoot their tresspassers. Most others just roiund them up and send them home, or to jail.

How many Guatemalans have been reported organizing demonstrations outside health clinics, demanding health care for their newborn kids and grandmothers?

Travel to Cuba without a passport and see how far you get.

jd99:
Thanks for the response. I have two quibbles with your statements though. You said, “The police will not be asking any random blue eyed person for proof of
citizenship.” Well, if he stops said random blue-eyed person for running a red light, the VERY FIRST thing he will ask is for his drivers license, which is proof of citizenship.

Second you said, “Now they have a completley leagal excuse to stop anyone with brown skin.  “probable cause” being a “suspected illegal” in these cases.” NOT TRUE. The law specifically says that any attempt to verify resident status must follow an arrest or detention for some other offense unrelated to resident status. Suspicion of illegal status is not a primary reason to stop someone. Now if a cop wants to abuse that provision, I’m sure the ACLU will pounce on him and the case will be thrown out.

rfidler!!

<<CaptRon:
Do you think this bill will be a license for more discrimination against Latinos?
If so, how?>>

Since this bill’s purpose is to stop illegal immigration from Mexico,
since Mexicans are called Latinos….
since this bill is a knee jerk reaction to a supposed murder of a white rancher
by an alleged Mexican immigrant (which has not been proven, kind of like
WMDs in Irag)
Yeah, there will be more discrimination against Latinos!

The police will not be asking any random blue eyed person for proof of
citizenship.  Maybe if Az shared a border with Norway!

Your points up until now have been somewhat intelligent, but this one speaks
volumes about your worldly experience. 

If you know any African-americans, ask them about driving while black and
how many times that they have been stopped by police. 
Listen to their answers with an open mind.
The same cop that will let you off with a warning, will search a african
american’s vehicle and person citing “probable cause”.  I have seen this with my
own eyes!
Now they have a completley leagal excuse to stop anyone with brown skin. 
“probable cause” being a “suspected illegal” in these cases.

Just so you understand me a bit better, I am a decorated Marine.  I have taken
an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.  I
have spille blood, both mine and theirs upholding this oath, and have payed for
it with 2/3 of my body.
Semper Fi.

rfidler:
How much discrimination exists there and other places cannot be pinpointed. Yet, of course I believe it will increase. How can it not happen? By the way, Utah-Utah has announced wanting to copy the Arizona law. How many hispanics will sneak across their borders? I have lived predominantly in and around a large city where discrimination expounds, yet people co-exist peacefully in daylight hours. It is mostly youth that has learned and reacts negatively to discrimination. I don’t mean others don’t, but gangs control neighborhoods. PM hours are their ally along with intimidation and apathy of the innocent. Try as they might, law enforcement loses the battle. What adds to their efforts toward protecting the innocent is having to racial profile. They react to a situation where the race or the youth involved MIGHT be doing wrong. The times when those are injured or killed that were actually innocent hurt the solution because they were wrongfully profiled. Police have a natural fear of what could happen, and that would affect their family and future, so they risk erring to protect themselves. Maybe they should, but could you imagine putting them lawfully in a position to not have to worry. My ultimate point lies more to that the Arizona type law increases the possibility that the innocent and legal Americans lose more, possibly up to their lives. They deserve their freedom to be protected as much as any other Arizona American, not put at risk because they look like or don’t have ID at the ready. If someone disrespected your freedom to live your life, how would you react? We all lose with a law like Arizona’s even though it looks like the correct thing to do on the outside. Just the way I see it.

What is dangerous about this is obvious, scapegoating the legal Hispanic community, harassment of this community for being of Mexican decent…People are stressed out, the core reason is centered around the deconstruction of America, elimination of the middle class the elimination of what is left of our constitutional rights…But American’s still are deluded, by their desire to hold on to their programming propaganda that we are still a free nation…So there will be scapegoats, just like in Germany, it keeps people diverted from the reality of the situation, which is dire…We have been sold down the river by our own elected officials, who are products, hand picked, chosen by the real government behind the scenes..There is no real difference in Bush and Obama, except Obama is articulate, charming, charismatic, but he has not ended the war, he is preparing to go to war with Iran…Just wait for the next 9112, which is likely to involve small nuclear suitcase devices, coming to a city near you…There are leaks, rumors and news that this is already in motion…This deal, which has been ignored allowed to escalate and scapegoat, will be the reasoning excuse behind a national ID…Bingo, we will all be required to be on the national database, tracked and marked like cattle…Control, fear social engineering for a new world, we will of course export world military police as our main industry…The ability to be a self contained self sustaining, country were we provide jobs for America, make what we buy which is simply the only way we can have a strong middle class, and democracy is gone…Diversions, moral outrage, self/group justifications, keep us divided separated too busy fighting with one another to see the real enemies…Others the meek, just keep playing those video games, watching TV, being on the internet, spending all their leisure time trying to have fun relax the only way they know how to shake off the oppressive shakey jobs that they do have…We are so very dependent on the world that these monsters are creating, so willing so blind, its getting, it seems to be a hopeless cause to try to point this out to anyone…When pointing out the simple and obvious it seems like the brainwashed react with the brainwashed101 response, oh your just a nut, radical one of those conspiracy theorist…What is right before your very eyes is a conspiracy????Just watch this diversion will be all settled soon, national ID’s now go back to sleep until the next show….Anyway soon American’s will be running across the border to Mexico or Canada for jobs…The Mexican illegals are here for a purpose, they are working somewhere, stop the source of employment, and treaties treaties oh how about insisting that Mexico take back their illegals and put them in detention for this so they won’t just run back into the US…They won’t do this because it will cost them money…It’s going to cost money period, to keep them out, what ever happened to the guest laborer permit legislation?  The influx of Mexican’s coming to this country has been going on for decades, much of the US use to belong to Mexico…The only thing that has really changed is that America has no livable wage jobs for probably at least half of all American’s, and their stressed worried…But will they work as farm laborers, send their entire families out for minimum wage to survive on seasonal farm jobs…Doubtful, at least for a few generations, then they will have no choice but to be farm laborers themselves…

CaptRon:
Do you think this bill will be a license for more discrimination against Latinos? If so, how?

O.K.—So corporate thugs and militant racist separtist latinos are intent on destroying whats left of an American economy already looted by Wall Street fat cats with the help of a corrupt White House and Congress. Only endless amnesty is acceptable and those who try to address the violence, political and racial Balkanization, and economic reality are racists. How passive/aggressive can it get??———Want a little lubrication with that??

gerard:
Did you get a new computer or new email address? Maybe that’s the problem.

1) Has anyone ever thought of telling the US Chamberpot of Commerce to take an airborne fornication? If not, all businesses should… they’re being used!
2) If Arizona lost 3-4 of its respected boys in blue, you can bet there would be a different attitude down there.  It would serve AZ right if they contacted the Feds for help and were told: “Sorry… you wanted to do our job for us… now it’s YOUR baby!”
AZ has given us free admission to the circus and we didn’t even know it was in town!  Disgusting!

This is not so much about politics in Arizona, or for that matter anywhere. Of course the people crossing the border without papers are illegal. I understand they are caught between a homeland in which they cannot live and a country to which they flee where their outlook is better but illegal and dangerous. It is probably the best choice, yet still illegal. THIS IS NOT WHAT IS IN QUESTION. What is wrong in Arizona, and soon to be other border states, is the discrimination that comes to those who are legal and greatly outnumber those that are illegal. Have you ever been the subject of REAL discrimination, judged by the color of your skin rather than your life’s work, looked upon like you are wrong or did something wrong instead of living the free America you were born in? The closest feeling would be the child who was in the wrong place when a parent or teacher or someone older happened upon a situation and decided you were wrong or did wrong when it wasn’t you but you couldn’t answer back because you couldn’t. Not the best example I know. REAL discrimination is much worse. If you think you have, believe that there is always someone who has experienced worse. What the Arizona law does, in my opinion, denigrates the legals, who just look the part, by those now put in a place to judge by demeanor. I know that law enforcement will misuse this law. It is done everywhere, yes everywhere. Yet this is minor compared to those who will judge, as some have related here, without privy to fact. It will give a moral license to interpretation of law by anyone who lives in Arizona. Why am I more worried about this? Just read the different posts on the subject and the strong feelings. I venture to bet that most, if not all, are not Arizona citizens, and those who are feel stronger because it is their state. Most people who feel or are told that they are in danger from illegal immigrants from Mexico will blame and judge legal Latino-Americans. These people, and there are many in all states, are for whom I fear. They are Americans and deserve the freedom from discrimination this country represents. We all do. Protect these Americans, don’t throw them under the bus. They represent the diversity of America.

To “no longer interested” who queerly was interested enough to spread his Republico-TeaBagger distortions that Democrats are the rich elite while his own Tea Partying Republican cave-mates, through inference, are the real champions of working people.  “No longer interested” labeled him-(or her)-self as a world class ignoramus when he (she) implied that global warming is nothing more than a scam concocted by Al Gore in order to make money.

Truthdig Allied with Corporate America

The mouthpiece for corporate America is the American Chamber of Commerce, which fights health care for all, opposes unions, opposes a Consumer Protection Agency, opposes higher taxes, and opposes a higher minimum wage. They also oppose Arizona’s new law and demand even more cheap foreign labor.

This is straight from their website: http://www.uschamber.com/workforce.htm
____________________________
Immigration Is Essential to a Globally Competitive Workforce

  * While maintaining a flexible, well-trained workforce, immigration must remain an integral part of our economic equation if we are to remain globally competitive.
  * Immediate action is needed to address pressing visa shortages that are hurting businesses, especially expansion of both temporary and permanent visa programs for the H-1B high-skilled and the H-2B seasonal worker categories.
  * America must have a comprehensive, rational, and balanced immigration policy that includes a guest worker program and provides a pathway to legal status for undocumented workers. It is also imperative that government work with businesses to create an employment verification system that is fast, accurate, reliable, and fair.
  * Because no federal policy has been adopted, state and local governments are adopting a patchwork of contradictory immigration rules and regulations which are often impossible for businesses to comply with.
_____________________________________

Can you believe it? With 20% unemployment they want even more visas for foreign workers and to grant visas for the millions of illegals? Why no outrage? And note, they hate laws like Arizona has passed. So I guess the Truthdig is hauling in the corporate cash donations as it continues to post covert propaganda from Corporate America.

The hysteria which has greeted this law is unwarranted.  This law is intended to apprehend people who are not legally present in our country and hopefully get them deported.  Which is exactly what the government is supposed to do. 

I hear people say that all non-whites will be rounded up and taken away in trains.  How likely is that?  I would say it is extremely unlikely.  Under this law, the police must have reasonable suspicions.  What might those be?  Well, let’s say the person can’t speak English, or speaks with a heavy accent.  What would be the next question?  Where were they born, what was the name of their elementary school—the same types of questions people are asked at the border when coming in.  Even citizens are asked.  I see no reason to think the police will use this law to harass citizens.

There is nothing cruel about detaining and deporting illegal immigrants.  That is what the law requires.

We have an elaborate immigration program, which allows more people to immigrate here than any other country in the world.  Each person coming to this country must apply for the right to do so, either to immigrate or come on a temporary basis by means of a visa.  There are security checks, background checks, fingerprinting.  People who refuse to follow those rules, and who sneak in, should be immediately deported.  Which, by the way, is exactly what all countries do:  they control who comes in, and deport people who sneak across the border. 

We need to start deporting people who have come here illegally.  And we need to do a better job of controlling the border, and preventing illegal immigrants from working here.  But none of this means we need to radically change our immigration laws.  We just need to enforce them.

Why do both George W. Bush and Barack Obama want immigration “reform?”  Not to deport those here illegally.  They want to use this hysteria to change the laws and allow corporate employers to bring in as many workers as they want. 

Bill Gates hired Ralph Reed years ago to get the ceiling on h1b visa workers lifted so Microsoft could hire exclusively workers from India (at $14,000 less per year) and fire all the Americans.  That is going to be the end result of this hysteria.  Plus, there will be a general “worker visa” program to allow any business to import as many workers as they want. 

You know the whole dispute over Mexican truckers?  Bush wanted to allow them to work anywhere in the U.S., to bust the teamsters.  That will be the first thing that happens.  Somebody’s going to unionize fed-ex?  Good luck, because fed-ex will hire only truckers from Mexico.

We should enforce our laws, control the borders, have a national ID card for immigrants to prove their right to be here, and stiff penalties for companies that hire illegal immigrants. 

And we need to be careful to avoid the hysteria over this Arizona law.  The people of Arizona have been overburdened and unfairly burdened by a flood of illegal immigrants and the problems of unrestricted immigration. 

Each immigrant with less than a high school education will cost the city and state of residence $85,000 over their lifetime.  They do not earn enough to pay taxes, but they and their families use resources.  There are good reasons to restrict the number of immigrants we allow in, and to deport anyone who comes here without permission.

We have a very similar law on the books here in Oklahoma.  It has been in effect for a little more than a year and a half and has had promising results.  The police didn’t deviate from their normal duties to go seek out everyone that had brown skin, not white, etc.  When they pulled someone over or found someone breaking the law they were asked to produce a some form of State or federal regeistered identification.  If they were found to be in the United States illegaly the feds were called and they were either shipped back to Mexico or held on charges if it was a serious crime.  Since this law has been in effect overall crime rates in areas where legal and illegal immigrants reside has gone down over 13%. 
So, without jumping the gun, why not give the State a chance to work their program and see how it turns out?  Just sayin

You racists cannot stop the Cha Cha. It is everywhere and it will soon be in your bedroom. Dancing in the streets means the Mexican border is coming down making Mexico the 51st state. Cuba is next. The smell of Taco is in the air and there is no fence big enough to stop the children of Montezuma from crossing over.

I think all of Arizona’s criminal laws are racist. Why, because the majority of those convicted are minorities, so they must be racist laws. And police enforcing them are all racists because they arrest more minorities than whites. All criminal laws must be unconstitutional.

Stupid logic, isn’t it? So why is it used when immigration law is the issue? Let’s follow the logic that enforcing immigration laws is racist and result in ethnic profiling. This means federal agents shouldn’t enforce the law either. Welcome to open borders dumb workers. We’ll all be working for minimum wage soon, if we are lucky to get a job.

American billionaires are having a great time watching so called “leftists” help them drive down wages and destroy the working class.

I see Truthout’s right-wing corporate spinmaster has appeared to fool the working class rubes. He starts out with nothing but childish name calling. That will shut up the dumb workers. He hates it when people use that democracy thing to try to force the ruling class to act.

Nothing about unemployment and declining wages. Just ramblings about how immigration laws cannot be enforced because doing so is “racists” and unconstitutional. Now he’s having a good laugh with fellow millionaires at the club while they demand another drink from their lowly paid servant.

Rfidler:
You and I are not far apart. What I’m asking is: Is THIS the most important task police should be devoting themselves to, catching illegal workers?  Personally, I think it’s a stupid waste of resources.  If an alien, legal or illegal commits a crime, I see no reason not to deport him.

The stereotypes here of ALL the crime coming from illegals (bypassing, for the moment, that being here illegally is in and of itself a crime) is simply something I would challenge.  I don’t believe it.  MOST crime is STILL committed mainly by…native born Caucasians. Not Hispanics.  Not Mexicans. Not illegal Mexicans.

Besides, how many are Mexican and how many are from south of Mexico?

Furthermore, anyone who has lived in the NYC area knows that the Russian Mafia has the worst reputation of any of the organized crime rings. 

Finally, RF, you make a KEY point: If you have a dozen apparently Mexican men standing around the HD parking lot speaking Spanish, and an equal number of Caucasian men speaking Russian, where is there “Reasonable Suspicion” of a crime by EITHER group?

The fault for the immigration mess lies solely with American business.  If work place laws were strictly enforced, if labor unions were ubiquitous, and the minimum salary were equal to a living wage, then people here legally could be employed first.  But as it is American business has diddled the system so that vacuuming up illegal immigrants to work at sub-standard wages under sub-standard conditions has become profitable.  Illegal immigration is not the fault of the poor but of the rich . . . all of whom vote Republican.

the immigrants will be uneducated if they settle
here. what’s left of the education systems
everywhere are taking the hit for the bankers.
the priority of this society is fast money. i would
be comforted to know there were an evil conspiracy
afoot rather than a bunch of greedy mob of low-life
looting and sacking at will.
this dust up over immigration is a diversion from
what is happening in your face; the corporation is
raping and killing this society. we are sold out,
long since. the mismanaged immigration issue is but
a symptom of a greater chaos, a bean bag to occupy
you while what’s left of the money is siphoned off.
too big to fail is like daylight savings time. if
you believe either you deserve both.

ITW:
Once again, you ignore common experience.

1. People caught sneaking across the Mexican border are 99.99% Hispanic. Is that observation in itself “racist”?

2. The majority of day laborers are Hispanic. Is that observation in itself “racist”?

3. There is now a law in Arizona addressing immigrant status. (I believe the law will be judged unconstitutional since immigration is a federal and not a state issue.)

4. Police resources are not limitless and I’m sure they, as a group (and especially the Hispanics among them), hate their new mandate.

If police are tasked with determining the resident status of people in their town, wouldn’t it make perfect sense, based on experience, not “racism”, to husband their resources and concentrate on Hispanics?

A cop can be distrustful of the Russian kids, but you would be the first to defend their right to hang out unmolested by the cops if the cops saw no evidence of a crime.

The word “illegal” must have meaning, and unfortunately, being an “illegal immigrant” is, for the time being, a local crime in Arizona. So, BASED ON EXPERIENCE, there is a fairly strong possibility that among a group of Hispanic men waiting for work, there MAY BE an illegal among them and the police are enjoined to check it out. Is “probable cause” “profiling”?

There is no question that it sucks to be Hispanic in Arizona now. But then again it sucks to be Muslim in Hamtramck, Michigan for all the same sterotypical reasons.

Hell, it sucks to be one of the few conservatives posting on this blog for all the undeserved and stereotypic labels thrown at me.

The current media hysteria and the indignation of our professional “racecard” kings is a smokescreen. No one gives a damn about hard working Mexicans or the Americans caught in the warzone created by the blowback of corporate company store policy. They lament the murder rate in Chicago as slums amd tent cities without water or electricity spring up on the edges of major western towns. At current illegal rates of immigration in twenty five year there will be tens of thousands of uneducated young people with no future and as in Chicago no choice but crime as a means of survival.——The people in Arizona have had enough—NO AMNESTY!!

This is a prime example of much ado about nothing.  If you are a citizen or a legal alien or a tourist just carry your ID——most people do it anyway.  There’s no greater feeling than to be stopped by a cop, produce bona fide ID, and then go on your way while feeling a great sense of relief.  Remember, even if you are stopped for jaywalking you must produce proper ID or you could be taken into custody.

Rfidler:
What you leave out is the KEY racial profiling question: Which group is there and for what?

Are they BOTH there for day work?  You can be almost certain the Mexican guys are.  But are the Russian guys? Is that their normal M.O.? Or are they there for other reasons?  And which is a greater risk to our society, in this case, your cop’s town?  If I were him, that’s what I’d be debating.

All attempts to paint this issue as “Left” or “Right” is none too bright.  Several national polls find that 60% of voters nationwide favor such a law, while 31% are opposed.

Seventy-seven percent (77%) of Republicans support the law along with 62% of voters not affiliated with either major party. Democratic voters are evenly divided on the measure.

At the same time, however, 58% of all voters are at least somewhat concerned that “efforts to identify and deport illegal immigrants will also end up violating the civil rights of some U.S. citizens.”

A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey finds that 70% of likely voters in Arizona approve of the legislation, while just 23% oppose it.

This is clearly not a partisan issue.  Only the most myopic amongst us are able to make it such.

-

I am against this new law in Arizona, however, I fully understand the desire to curb the crime and violence that is so clearly caused by the trafficking of drugs and human beings in the State.

ITW:
To your points.
1. Trespassing. Yes, they could be arrested. And the fact that this scene plays out all over the country (your pt 3) and they DON’T, means they are not a priority for the cops (your pt 5).

2. I should be in jail.

4. No, of course you don’t KNOW that they are illegal. But come on. Does plain experience count for anything?  Let’s say at the other end of the parking lot from the Hispanics are your gang of white guys standing around, all speaking Russian (not unrealistic- there are lots of young Russian kids working in my neighborhood stores). I pose the problem this way: “There is a REMOTE possibility that among those groups of men there is at least one illegal immigrant. You are an overworked cop at the end of your shift, and have time to make only one inquiry. Which group would you approach?”

I submit that no one with an iota of intellectual honesty would say, “I’d flip a coin.” Is that “profiling” or experience?

As for your conclusions. Does it “require” that we carry papers? I mildly agree with the last three, especially that the law as written will probably be struck down.

The more I think about this Arizona law, the more I
like it. I think we liberals can work with it.

For starters, let’s order our law enforcement
officials to stop anyone who looks like they might
bomb a women’s health clinic, and ask them if they
favor a woman’s right to choose. The suspect should
prove his support of women’s rights by presenting
papers showing their monthly contribution to Planned
Parenthood (tax-deductible, of course).

To be fair and COMPLETELY non-discriminatory, we
could have officers stationed outside the gates of
Regent University and southern churches.

I think Arizona is on to something here. Let’s
embrace it!

rfidler, April 27 at 12:13 am #

Now, back to the cops-as-regular-folks theme. Do you REALLY think that the vast majority of cops will waste their time busting on every Hispanic they see because of this new law? My guess is that lots of cops will think this new law is a collosal pain in the ass because they just don’t want to be bothered with harassing some poor Jose standing at a curb waiting for a bus.
********************************************

Lots of questions here Rfidler:
1) Can’t they be charged with trespassing if they aren’t shopping or working at the Depot? Don’t need a special law for that.
2) Would you rather have a dozen men waiting for day labor or a dozen men waiting around for…who knows what?  I used to live in Virginia in an apt complex and just before we left there would be a dozen guys hanging around the parking lot in the evening.  When a woman walked by to go to or from her apt they would all stop and stare at her breasts and her ass.  Where were the cops THEN?
3) What makes Arizona special?  You can find the same thing in upstate New York towns—day workers looking for work.
4) How do you KNOW, just by looking at them that they are illegal?  If it was a gang of Caucasian guys would you think they were illegals?  THAT is what racial profiling is all about
5) Is THIS the best allocation of police resources?  In my town, one cop filled his quota of tickets with questionable ones about a supposedly illegal turn—I got nailed and even the judge asked “is there a sign there?” (there wasn’t and I got off with no points—now there’s a sign)  Not long after the cop stopped hunting there.  My point? Police resources are NEVER sufficient to stop ALL crimes “The police can’t be everywhere” so shouldn’t they be where the crime is the most serious and disruptive?

The problem with this law is multifold.
It opens the door clearly to racial profiling. 
It demands that we all carry “papers” like Soviet Russia, Communist China or Nazi Germany, subject to arrest if we don’t have them. 
It represents “nullification”, which was conclusively overturned in 1865.
It is nothing but a “feel-good” law for Republicans.
It represents an additional government intrusion.
It is unConstitutional.

What is Arizona so worried about? It’s just the GOP making a big deal out of nothing:
1) Nobody in their right mind would stop or stay in Arizona anyway.
2) The Latinos are just passing through on their way to Canada where things make sense.
3) How would the Arizona law be enforced in any of the Canadian border states? We mostly all look the same and beside, why would they leave Canada anyway where the health care is better for all?

I hear that guy McCain might be illegal! Wasn’t he born on a boat somewhere in the middle of the Panama Canal? Papers please!!

How about placing some strong sanctions against Arizona; until all of those racist, bigot occupiers produce papers proving their legitimacy to the indigenous population. While we’re at it, we should make sure that Arizona radical Christianites haven’t squirreled away a nuke factory somewhere over there.

What’s that you say about, do unto others…I can’t hear you!?

WikiLeaks—Collateral Murder
http://wikileaks.org/

Peace, Best Wishes and Hope

Here’s the REAL reason for the law:

Behind The Arizona Immigration Law: GOP Game to Swipe the November Election

by: Greg Palast

http://www.truthout.org/behind-the-arizona-immigration-law-gop-game-to-swipe-the-november-election58877

The people of Arizona chose to take this action after the Federal Government failed to live up to it’s responsibility to pass comprehensive immigration laws.  A State should not be criticized for following the will of the majority of it’s people.  Unless it violates the Constitution, it’s their business.

jd99:
I know this will be a very difficult concept for you to agree with, but police officers are, for the most part, just regular people.

Now, I also know this will be a VERY difficult leap for you but, try to put yourself in a Home Depot parking lot at 7AM. Let’s say there are a dozen or so young men standing around chatting near the entrance. A pickup truck pulls up, a man gets out, chats with the group for a minute, three of the men jump in the truck and drive away. This happens a few more times. Say three of the men are left.

You (and this will be the biggest leap of all for you, but bear with me) are a cop. Knowing what WE ALL KNOW about how many illegals get work in this country, would it be RACIST of you to approach those men and ask them what their status was?

Now, back to the cops-as-regular-folks theme. Do you REALLY think that the vast majority of cops will waste their time busting on every Hispanic they see because of this new law? My guess is that lots of cops will think this new law is a collosal pain in the ass because they just don’t want to be bothered with harassing some poor Jose standing at a curb waiting for a bus.

mrfreeze:
You da man! Perfect!

I have said, for many years, that a great deal of the “illegal immigrant” issues would be far easier to administrate in the US if we did one simple thing:

American Citizens should be issued and carry an American Passport. All other guests/visitors here need to carry whatever documentation they possess. That’s it. After all, most Americans carry a legion of credit cards, and other documents on a daily basis. 

And don’t give me that “passports are fascist,” or “it’s an invasion of my privacy,” or whatever. If Americans are so PROUD of this country and of being citizens, then they should have no trouble producing their passports. Most Americans will give up the most intimate details of their lives for a credit card, so the idea that mandating passports is “un-American” is ridiculous. How else can we ever establish “citizenship” unless there’s a gold standard for comparison.

Mandatory passports would eliminate the argument that one’s citizenship is questionable. I guarantee you, if you’re in Europe and you don’t have the right papers, you’ll find yourself on a fast train out of whatever country you don’t belong.

rfidler,
You would be thrown in jail if you could not prove your citizenship to the
questioning officer.

“The law requires police to question anyone they “reasonably suspect” of being an
undocumented immigrant”.

Simple as that.

“Will Native-American citizens be mistaken for illegals?”
It happens all the time here.

Gene:

You say “legal immigrants” must carry papers. Really? Is that what the law says? What if I came to the US from Spain and was naturalized twenty years ago and settled in Mesa, Arizona? Would I now have to carry around papers proving that fact? WOULD I?? I still have a Spanish accent. Will I be thrown in jail for not being able to produce my “papers”?

What “race” are Hispanics? Indian? White? Is the Spanish language a “race”? Is Mexico a “race”? Will Native-American citizens be mistaken for illegals? How will they prove their bona fides? Does the new law require that they carry “papers”?

Let me throw a final “if” at you. Let’s say Obama gets his way and Palestine wins the day. Five million Jews come flooding into the US and don’t feel the necessity to observe the protocols of the immigration policy. Will you promise to be scandalized when Al Sharpton and Jesse “Hymie Town” Jackson calls for closing the border against them?