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America’s War Disease

Posted on May 7, 2010
U.S. soldier in Afghanistan
Flickr / U.S. Army

Sgt. 1st Class Phillip Wire stands atop Ghar Mountain at Kabul Military Training Center in Afghanistan in February 2008.

By Bill Boyarsky

The Afghanistan war, along with Iraq, has become a chronic illness that America has learned to ignore.

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News of the sick economy, natural and human-made disasters and momentary sensations like the Tiger Woods sex scandal flashes across cable news screens and the Internet, leaving hardly any space for the war. Financially strapped news organizations employ few of the talented war correspondents who could bring the conflicts to the public’s attention, as an earlier generation of journalists did with Vietnam. At home, the anti-war movement is barely covered. In late March, neither Afghanistan nor Iraq made the top 10 stories on cable, network television or online news, and they finished in seventh place among newspapers.

As a result, peace candidates such as Southern California’s Marcy Winograd find it difficult to break through the news media clutter to reach the public. And the nation is denied a debate on an Afghanistan war that has lasted eight years.

Winograd is a Democratic anti-war insurgent challenging Rep. Jane Harman, who supports President Obama’s war policy and voted for the resolution authorizing the Iraq war. They are competing in a district that has long reflected middle-class views. It reaches from Los Angeles suburbs through beach cities and inland cities. Harman represented the district from 1993 to 1998, when she ran for governor and lost, and was elected to the seat again in 2000. Her personal wealth and campaign contributions make it a tough race for a challenger like Winograd.

Winograd ran against Harman in 2006 and lost by a big margin. She says she lost badly because she entered the race too late. This time, she started early. There’s much that separates them in politics, policies and personality. Most important, if Winograd were to upset Harmon or even come close, it would be a sure sign of Democratic discontent with the president’s stand on Afghanistan.


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Winograd told me she would have voted for Rep. Dennis Kucinich’s resolution forcing Obama to withdraw troops within 30 days of passage of the Kucinich measure.

“We should start bringing our troops home and ending the air war,” she said. She added that she would have conditioned her vote on a provision that the nation also “invest resources in … bringing peace and prosperity” to Afghanistan. “We have a commitment to invest in the country and not to simply say we are done, period,” she said.

Harman, chair of the Homeland Security Subcommittee on Intelligence, voted against the resolution, although she had previously opposed Obama’s decision to increase the number of troops in Afghanistan. “Like Mr. Kucinich, I want the United States out of Afghanistan at the earliest reasonable date,” she said during the debate on his resolution. “But accelerating the Obama administration’s carefully calibrated timetable could take grievous risks with our national security.”

The Kucinich resolution provided a rare debate on the war. It was defeated 356 to 65 on March 11, as expected. But, as Julian E. Barnes observed in his story in The Los Angeles Times, “antiwar lawmakers welcomed the debate as a chance to express pent-up frustration with the continued buildup in Afghanistan, and to express their view that the original mission of U.S. forces, defeating Al Qaeda, had been lost.”

We Americans are ready for such a debate. And there is plenty of discontent around the country. A Quinnipiac University poll in April showed only 49 percent of those surveyed approved of Obama’s handling of the war, while 39 percent disapproved. A CNN/Opinion Research survey found that 48 percent favored the war and 49 percent opposed it.

“Our country is deeply polarized,” Winograd said in an interview with the Tehran Times. “I wish our president had immediately used his victory, his political capital, to fight for transformative change, a transition from a permanent war economy to a new green economy,” she told the Iranian newspaper. “In the end, one man can’t make change all by himself; there needs to be a movement on the streets.”

Winograd also disagrees with the administration and the Jewish establishment on Israel. She told the Tehran Times, “I am a non-Zionist Jew who believes in equality and dignity for all in the Middle East. I hope my candidacy and convictions will give courage and strength to others who dare to question.”

In my interview with her, she said, “I’m not a Zionist. I am a realist, though. I support two states, [or] one state, whatever incarnation will put an end to the misery and suffering on both sides.”

We need a public debate on these issues, and Winograd is forcing one, at least in her corner of California. Scattered peace candidates are doing the same in other parts of the country.

Search them out. Give them a hand—or a few dollars. Bug the news media for attention. Guilt-trip the media bosses. Nag the reporters. It has worked for the tea party. Why not try it for a good cause? Otherwise, the United States will continue to be mired in this fruitless war.

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By ofersince72, May 29, 2010 at 4:47 am Link to this comment

L I S T E N   U P   C A P I T O L   H I L L

          80 —TO— 13

  T H I S   I S   W H A T   Y O U   G I V E   U S

After all the inept, money grubbing, sorry legislation
coming from the 110th and 111th congressional sessions.

W E   A R E   G O I N G   T O   S T O P   T H I S
  W A R   M A C H I N E   A N D   A L L   O F
      C A P I T O L   H I L L’ S   L I E S !!!!!

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 16, 2010 at 7:29 pm Link to this comment


Michael Parenti packs so much knowledge and insight into a small space it’s astounding.  This is not taught in school or anywhere else.  Just like in personal or business relationships, IF YOU DON’T KNOW REAL HISTORY, YOU WILL BELIEVE ANYTHING!  This is NOT some boring history lesson.
What I especially like about Parenti is his explanations are strikingly obvious and transparent, not mysterious and complex.

If you ask yourself “why does the government do this to us citizens?” and “how could those politicians be so stoopid?” and “how can so many people believe this media disinformation and propaganda?”  Dr. Parenti will open your eyes.

The three most fiery of Parenti’s talks, the difference between “government” (form) and the “National Security State” (substance), including all the Intelligence agencies and the Pentagon.  Parenti describes RATIONAL Functions of Fascism, beyond Hitler’s “theatrics” with “Blood and Soil” and other occult schtick.

(Alex Jones refers to “the Illuminati” as an Intelligence organization, which is what the Nazi SS was and what the CIA is.  But in typical “John Birch Society” worldview, he calls this “communism”.)

Michael Parenti was a devout anti-Communist as a child, like most Americans.  He gradually got involved in protests against US policy in Vietnam.  After getting beaten up and almost killed by police, he naïvely noticed that police were protecting the establishment but not Americans’ hallowed First Amendment rights.  He was also railroaded out of his college professorship for free speech and railroaded in court.  He began thinking about class bias, because the police were defending the ruling class policies. The Constitution did not apply, when it comes to normal people.

Friends told Michael his observations about the economic-political-power relationships, and “who benefits?”, were “Marxist questions” or a “radical analysis” of “root causes”.  “Radical” means “root”.

When you wonder WHY things are the way they are, why there are drastic power and wealth disparities in a supposedly classless society, why billionaire elites control govt, commerce, and media, to serve their interests, and you point out the dirty deeds they DO to maintain and consolidate power and wealth, that’s “Marxist”.

Michael then discovered Das Kapital, by Karl Marx which critically examined Capitalism, and where it was headed in the future.  If you know someone who’s been unemployed or underemployed so long they have just given up, while Wall Street and DC says “there’s still some slack in the labor market” as they said on 07-02-04, in other words “workers are still insufficiently beaten back”, and you ask yourself “what’s wrong with this picture”, you’re already on the same page.  Slavery is complete ownership of a human being.  Capitalism is “time-share” ownership of human labor, all the benefits, none of the costs.


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By SteveL, May 15, 2010 at 7:42 pm Link to this comment

Article 5 of the Constitution.  If you want to change it, amend it!
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall
propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the
Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for
proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and
Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three
fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the
one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress;
Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One
thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth
Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its
Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.By ofersince72,
May 13 at 3:33 am #
I am   0 for 10
in presidential elections
?Public Law 107-40   Congress gave the Executive?          all the war powers he
wants?          to wage war, where ever he?          wants, with anyone he wants?         
for ever and ever if he wants.
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By SteveL, May 13 at 1:46 am #
The constitution clearly grants only congress the power to declare war.  The ?
president was given war powers to respond to a nuclear attack.  Since we have
had ?Korea Vietnam, and the current mess.  Where was the nuclear attack or even
the ?threat of attack of any kind?

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By ofersince72, May 15, 2010 at 8:49 am Link to this comment

For the Vets…

It wasn’t a pretty day when I met you
Wasn’t a pretty day at all
You brushed me aside with a HI and a Good Bye
The tears flowing from your eyes
I loved him too, and now I love you

The veil over your face couldn’t hide the beauty I saw
Your dark eyes and dark hair seemed to shine against your
black dress
Fond memories of our friend ran all over me as I was
starring at you
And I loved him and now I love you

The military salute couldn’t drown the pounding of my heart
While they were laying our friend to his rest
And I loved him and now I love you
And now I know why that my friend loved you too

And the day turned pretty after all
Because I saw the beauty my friend saw in you

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 14, 2010 at 6:16 pm Link to this comment


Who owns the USA? 90% of US citizens don’t have shit, dont have assets, and don’t have anything, only have pain, backaches from cooking, laundry and chores and lots of depression. We need a bloody revolution right now i am tired of this bullshit of United States of American Freedom


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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 14, 2010 at 5:51 pm Link to this comment

Dave: Well capitalists cannot be christians.  A real christian has to be communist, not capitalist.  Because capitalism, feudalism, aristocraty, monarchy, and all oligarchic systems that have been on earth for 3000 to 4000 years are the political economic system of the dark sinister satanic forces of this world that has led to bloodshed and deaths of millions of people this world

So most of the churches you see out there in USA and who deffend the free market are satanic not christians

And yes, revolutions are violent.  Revolutions dont happen in a computerized air conditioned room.  Read history and learn how the is the real world.  And only revolutions can bring real change, don’t be so dumb. All elections in USA are rigged. And only a bloody-revolution can save USA.  Be realist.


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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 14, 2010 at 5:41 pm Link to this comment



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By DaveZx3, May 14, 2010 at 2:31 pm Link to this comment

By Tennessee-Socialist, May 10 at 12:19 am #

“”“Che Guevara only killed capitalists, not socialists.  So if you are a capitalist and you are in the side of the capitalists if there was a revolution in the USA the socialists would have to kill you, because all real changes have blood, assasinations and violence.

Welcome to reality, reality is immoral, not utopian and perfect

In a revolution if revolutionaries kill capitalists only i am ok with that, i am against killing people.  But i am a revolutionary-socialist not a saint”“”

Do the Christian socialists kill Christian capitalists, or just heathen capitalists. 

I think we should all get some documentation as to where we stand on the Christiant/Atheist scale and on the Capitalist/Socialist scale, so when they stop us to ask for our papers, we can give a good account of what our persuasions are.  Could mean the difference between life or death when the total looneys take over.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 14, 2010 at 11:18 am Link to this comment

Hello all: Jesus Christ and the Apostles were one of the original founders of democratic egalitarian socialism, and Karl Marx, Lenin and Trotsky just turned Bible Christian utopian-socialism into political-socialism.  However the real ideology of socialism has only been applied by the first christians and in the short lived experiments of The Paris Commune, and in the short-lived Bolshevik-government.  Which was overthrown by evil satanic forces of Joseph Stalin.

The logos and name of socialism has also been used by corrupt oligarchic governments in this world who are not authentic socialists like Zapatero of Spain, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Michelle Bachelet (A neoliberal, pro-NAFTA) and by many other Political Parties in this world who called themselves “Socialist Party” or “Social Democrat Party” but once they rise to power, they dont apply a real Christian Egalitarian Economic system where people would be the same under God, and where there wouldn’t be concentration of millions of dollars in a couple of fat-cats.

An example of this is Spain.  The governing political party of Spain is: “Socialist Workers Party of Spain (PSOE)” but what exists in Spain is an oligarchic-plutocratic system where a few live real well, and the majority are poors, just like here in USA

So the world needs a real socialist christian revolution, a revolution of the poors against the rich.  A slave-revolt of the oppressed against the oppressors.

We in USA need a real-socialist revolution against bankers and against the corporate capitalists along with a christian anti-immoralism revolution.  A revolution of christian-morality against selfishness, apathy, unfriendly behaviour, greed, materialism, money-addiction, adultery, alcoholism, binge-eating (food addiction), drug addiction, pessimism (That’s right pessimism is a trait of Satan)

I try to be a real christian-socialist. For example if i was US president i would trim my salary from 30,000 a month to 3000 a month, and i would trim the salaries of senators and all top high cupula leaders of the US government to about 3000 a month. Because USA needs an egalitarian christian paradigm, where the president is not better and more special than the floor-cleaners of The White House, in fact the floor cleaners and workers are more important than the president and senators.  Because the real labor of a christian-socialist, communist workers government should be to be servants of US citizens. And The White House would be destroyed and turned into a 3 bedroom/1bathroom 80,000 dollars regular house.

The US christian-communist president should drive a 6000 dollars Dodge Neon instead of a luxury limousine




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By amunaor, May 14, 2010 at 10:45 am Link to this comment

(((RE: Tennessee-Socialist, May 14 at 1:32 pm> there is a member there who wrote that he enjoys killing and bombing people in his signature.)))

Well aren’t you just the air-head?

All this time I’ve been clamoring in effort to bring attention to this murder being carried out by mindless game-boy cadets, but it simply went right through that vacuum between your ears.

Oh well, I hope yours aren’t the only ears in town!

Peace, Best Wishes and Hope

WikiLeaks—Collateral Murder

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 14, 2010 at 9:32 am Link to this comment

berniem: There is a lot of evil in USA, not just in Republican Party, i am a member of this diet bodybuilding forum and there is a member there who wrote that he enjoys killing and bombing people in his signature. I think he is a member of the US Armed Forces, damn what the hell is happening with people in America?

Lots of Charles Manson and Jeffrey Dahmers out there in America, so beware coz USA is full of serial-killers

I think that this serial-killing psychopathic mentality was born in 1776, because USA was founded by killers psychopaths who killed millions of native-american indians.

So remember dont celebrate the 4th of July of 1776, because the USA’s founders were evil and satanic



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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 14, 2010 at 9:21 am Link to this comment



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By berniem, May 13, 2010 at 2:43 pm Link to this comment

America does not have a war disease. America is a piece of over used and substantially depleted real estate that happens to unfortunately count amongst it’s citizens a large number of people who seem to enjoy the notion of destroying people and things in the pursuance of vague, abstract concepts and a sense of threat ingrained by a covetus and controlling elite. This is not a distinction held by today’s America, but has been the state of affairs throughout mankinds’ history. War and violence is part of mans’ feral nature thinly disguised beneath a veneer of civilization!

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By ofersince72, May 12, 2010 at 11:33 pm Link to this comment

I am   0 for 10

in presidential elections

Public Law 107-40   Congress gave the Executive
              all the war powers he wants
              to wage war, where ever he
              wants, with anyone he wants
              for ever and ever if he wants.

Report this

By SteveL, May 12, 2010 at 9:46 pm Link to this comment

The constitution clearly grants only congress the power to declare war.  The
president was given war powers to respond to a nuclear attack.  Since we have had
Korea Vietnam, and the current mess.  Where was the nuclear attack or even the
threat of attack of any kind?

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By Night-Gaunt, May 12, 2010 at 4:33 pm Link to this comment

Tennessee-Socialist, some of your stuff goes right along with the reich wing nativist Christian supremacists including blaming the Jews for all our problems. Please most of what is done is by Christians! Monopolist ones who are against the idea of actually competing to give us a better product for the least cost. Tell me do you have your copy of the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” handy? A perfidious bit of junk written by the Csar’s secret police and fore runner of the KGB the Okrona. Such junk.

I only agree that the slack and money given to Israel helps them commit war crimes against the Palestinians. But it is the Christians here who think they can use the Jews of Israel to fulfill Biblical prophecy as they see it. But not your scenario at all.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 12, 2010 at 1:42 pm Link to this comment


Read the article or print it if you want and share it with your family and friends who are beating the bullets economically and are confused about the solution. read this long article, it’s about who our friends are and who are our real enemies in this world-crisis against the global-elites, New World Order or Imperialist capitalist rulers (However u wanna call it), it’s a real great weapon for our anti-global elites revolution

Class in the U.S. and Our Strategy for Revolution

(The following document is a portion of the political program of Freedom Road Socialist Organization. It was adopted at our 5th Congress. Other parts of the program are still in the process of development.)

To change society and end oppression, we need a plan to get from where we are now to liberation - a strategy that will work. Any successful revolutionary strategy must address the fundamental issue of who are our friends and who are our enemies and explain how we will go about uniting all who can be united to end the existing order of things.

We live in an era where capitalism has reached its final stage: monopoly capitalism, also known as imperialism. Monopoly capitalism is a doomed system whose continued existence stands in the way of all social progress. Huge corporations and financial institutions are headed by a wealthy oligarchy that dominates the political and economic life of this country, blocking the path to prosperity for the vast majority. U.S. companies are closing down factories here and exporting capital around the globe, to the detriment of all but themselves.

Our ruling class (the big capitalists and their hangers-on) has built an empire that spans the earth. Like vampires, they stand at the apex of a parasitic system that makes its home on Wall Street and sucks the blood of the Main Streets in the cities of the U.S. and villages of the developing world. They live on the labor, land and natural resources of others. Neither distance nor decency is a barrier to their drive to achieve the highest possible rate of profit. The world has been divided up between the big capitalist powers, which will stop at nothing to expand their spheres of influence and control.

Within our borders the monopoly capitalists have accumulated untold wealth based on the exploitation of the multinational working class and the systematic discrimination and robbery that is visited upon the oppressed nationalities.

We need to turn things upside down. This means revolution, a radical break that advances the cause of the exploited, that employs, in the words of Malcolm X, any means necessary. Working and oppressed peoples need political power. This power is the means to reorganize society in our own interests and dictate our terms to all who stand in the way. The seizure of power by the working class and its allies is the beginning of a great change, a transformation that continues until the end of all classes and all oppression.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 12, 2010 at 1:31 pm Link to this comment


Dear President Obama. It is time to stop sending Americans’ tax money to Israel. They will never be grateful. Nothing we do will ever be enough. It is time to stop wasting time and money on these ingrates.


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By Night-Gaunt, May 12, 2010 at 9:13 am Link to this comment

And the USA uses that tactic, one of the reasons for having special forces in the first place. It is a racket and quite a lucrative one at that.

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By felicity, May 12, 2010 at 9:02 am Link to this comment

We’re past due for some reality checks.  Afghanistan is not called the “graveyard of empires” for nothing.

When Russia went to war with Afghanistan, Breszinski wrote to Carter that now was our opportunity to ‘give’ Russia its Viet Nam.

One does not declare ‘war’ on a tactic.  Terrorism is a tactic.

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By dihey, May 12, 2010 at 7:39 am Link to this comment

Boyarski: “The Afghanistan war, along with Iraq, has become a chronic illness that America has learned to ignore”.
Except for the military brass which, in my opinion, is deeply worried about the developments in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan which are all negative. Considering the Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos debacle the brass can hardly tolerate another ignominious ending.
Here are the signs. The Obama administration is now genuflecting before Karzai among others to move him to accept the publicly touted Kandahar attack. The commanders in Iraq have publicly announced their reconsideration* of the major troop withdrawal during the summer of 2010, a withdrawal that was touted by Mr. Obama after he was installed as President.
To understand the “unbelievable change” that has happened during the tenure of the Obama administration let’s consider three textbook examples of how these matters used to be handled in the past.
With regards to the publicly announced attack on Kandahar by General McChrystal imagine what would have happened if Ike had announced weeks before D-Day: “now that we have liberated all of North Africa, Sicily, and much of Italy, we will soon invade France on the beaches of Normandy between Cherbourg and Caen to destroy the German war-making capability.” He would have been court marshaled for giving vital information to the enemy.
Towards the end of WW2 substantial and powerful U.S. forces were lodged on the west bank of the Elbe near Berlin, poised to cross and attack Berlin. President Roosevelt, fearful of the consequences of an estimated 1 million US casualties for the liberation of a city of which about 1/2 would have to be handed over to the Soviets later made the decision as commander-in-chief and nixed the attack. Did Eisenhower and the US commanders on the Elbe publicly state: “we are reconsidering the planned attack on Berlin because an estimated 1 million of our soldiers will become casualties”? No. General Eisenhower bluntly but privately told one of his commanders: “Syd, we are not going to Berlin”.
When General McArthur subordinated by making his own policy decisions he was instantly cashiered by President Truman.
What, then, has prompted our administration and brass to “negotiate” with Karzai behind closed doors about Kandahar and to “reconsider” the withdrawal of troops from Iraq? They are looking ahead for scapegoats when things will go really wrong: Karzai, El Maliki, Allawi, El Sadr, Ahmedinejad, and ultimately Obama himself.
The news from the Middle East is as bad as from the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico: no stopping in sight and our so-called leaders have no clue of how to stop in the Middle East.
* Since when are commanders empowered to “reconsider” policy issues?

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By ofersince72, May 11, 2010 at 7:59 pm Link to this comment

Greg Palast has a very good investigative video out
now on the Arizona immigration law and just why it was
passed. It has absolutly nothing to do with illegal

It has everything to do with keeping 100,000 legal
mexican-americans from the voting booth in Arizona.

Look the Video up and watch it.
You all are Dems , most of you, 100,000 votes in Arizona
means a whole lot.

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By ofersince72, May 11, 2010 at 7:51 pm Link to this comment

I never have given my opinion of wheather 911 was
a contrived event by others than who we were told, other
than that I feel that those who have investigated have
a right to be heard.
I will give my opinion on the shoe bomber and the New
York car bomb attempt, if the truth be known, I would bet
everything I own that they were contrived by someone in
our government that benifits from Public Law 107-40.
From now until forever, any place on this planet, our
government is free to pursue whatever interests they care
under the quise of Public Law 107-40. All they need to do
is keep finding a terrorist, coincidently, this guy was
from Pakistan, a place where our government was looking
for a reason to justify their present and future actions.
However , this war is also against us. Look at what they
are doing , the laws that they are passing and the border
walls they are building,  these walls will be more to keep
us in than worrying about laborers coming inside our
borders.  The Attorney General is asking permission to
bypass Miranda, we already have the patriot act, no habeas
, the right to assassinate, rendition, torture, secret
prisons, no visitors, no lawyer, ect.
These are acts against the citizens of this country that
will be used against citizens of this country.
We do not have the power to vote ourselves out of this

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 11, 2010 at 6:23 pm Link to this comment

what_is_this: Don’t worry about DaveZx3 he is a progressive-liberal (Centrist).  A marxist told me that the main enemy of the US left is not the Republican Party right-wingers, but progressive-liberals. He said that at the end of the day, progressive-liberals are always pro-free markets, pro-wars and pro-corporations.


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By what_is_this, May 11, 2010 at 4:47 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

DaveZx3 said:

“They see only the image [Che Guevara], and not the blood of the innocent people he is responsible for killing.  He [Che Guevara] is one of a long line of communist murdering, butchering thugs from around the world.
It is not humorous to us that some choose to wear his bloody, ugly face [of Che Guevara] on their t-shirts.”

What exactly were these people innocent of that Che Guevara killed?  He killed those members of the upper-class who believed that they should not have to share!  As such, you DaveZx3, believe that the wealthy people were “innocent” for choosing to be so immoral?  F-U for believing that!  You must not have had an education past Kindergarten.  Sharing is a positive action, idiot! 

In Batista’s Cuba, the upper-class multi-millionaire mafioso had the right to defend their opinion of being greedy simply because they were rich.  Obviously, this attitude by wealthy people was against society’s best interest, since the Cuba Revolution of 1959 happened.  Post-Revolution, wealthy people were no longer rich enough to combat the now LEGAL obligation to share their piece of the pie.  Those who disagreed with post-Batista Cuba were considered traitors - and rightfully so!  In some cases, rich people were killed for failing to adapt to a new system that benefitted ALL in the society in both the short and long terms!  Under Fidel Castro, millionaires would no longer have any sway on politics.  If people did not like that and instead felt nostalgia by worshipping the ground Fulgenico Batista walked on; they were to either leave Cuba, follow the new laws, or be killed! 

So.. why defend wealthy people, DaveZx3?  It was the WEALTHY who either left Cuba after Fidel Castro took over or were killed!  As they deserved anyhow…traitors!  Look what wealthy people have done to the USA for crying out loud?  The ultra-wealthy deserve to be alive in your opinion?  That supposedly the wealthy are innocent of costing the USA trillions of dollars?  It is “innocent” of someone to commit fraud at the expense of millions of people?  All these are “innocent” actions?!  F-U DaveZx3!

Oh and uhhh…also DaveZx3, I noticed you said here that killing people based on their political beliefs is never justified.  So…what?  You are trying to maintain the high ground here regarding positive ethics simply because of your opinion?  Actually, I think government sponsored killing based on political belief can be justified under some circumstances.  Just think, if the Weimar Republic in the late 1920’s were able to clamp down on Nazis during their early stages of their development, there might not have been a WW2.  If Czar Nicholas II both treated his citizens well and silenced the Bolsheviks, there would not have been a Lenin or Stalin.  If Louis the XVI and Marie Antionette killed those who voiced disagreement regarding their policies, there would not have been a Napoleon Bonaparte.

The USA is going to finally experience a day of reckoning once this nation winds up becoming completely broke!  Please stay away from tea parties and FOX News DaveZx3! It may make you feel better.  Please learn Chinese and Arabic also since you are so willing to stay in the USA no matter what happens within the next decade or two.  grin

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By Night-Gaunt, May 11, 2010 at 4:19 pm Link to this comment

That is why I said “external” concerning it. Also no deu ex machina will pull our asses out of the fire, not in the past not now. It will be especially bad for you when you see that their storm troops will be dressed in the traditional accouterments of typical American colors and symbols plus Christian ones. But to say to put it in some deity’s hands is a cop out. Once the economy fails they will make their move. Right now our Republic is being hamstrung in the areas where it will help us while those things for the military-industrial part go sailing through. That is inverted totalitarianism. They get what they want without trouble while we fight tooth & nail and still lose something. Just look at all the fallderall with the corporate health care bill. Then look at the appropriations for the trillion dollar war. Which was harder? Which cost more. Which benefited us directly and which doesn’t really at all?

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By Paul_GA, May 11, 2010 at 3:29 pm Link to this comment

You mean you can’t see that we’re living in an empire now, Night-Gaunt, and that all we have are the outward forms of small-“r” republicanism? Perhaps it might be better to pull down the whole rotten structure and start all over again. It’s in God’s hands now; His will be done.

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By amunaor, May 11, 2010 at 1:28 pm Link to this comment

Predator Drones to Fly Over Texas-Mexico Border by Fall:

Collateral Murder to reign down from the skies, coming soon to a city near you!

“Just look at that pile of dead bastards over there”, laughs the desensitized, disposable shooter.

WikiLeaks—Collateral Murder

Peace, Best Wishes and Hope

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By Night-Gaunt, May 11, 2010 at 11:18 am Link to this comment

These days people have more fear of losing their jobs or worse not finding another one as the Republic is sucked dry to build an external empire. It will be the Republic that collapses not an Empire that isn’t yet existing Paul_GA. That is the point of this operation. To pull down the Republic, even if it is action as an inverted totalitarian state, because the top 10% want a full on empire without restraints. To them power is important not international law.

Only when the disparity of wealth is removed, and the way our governing structures weed out psychopaths and power mongers instead of attracting them, will we have a chance and not before.

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By amunaor, May 11, 2010 at 11:01 am Link to this comment

RE: Samson, May 11 at 12:12 pm>>

Samson, yes it was quite the 4th of July story, drums rolling to the sound of bombs bursting in air, the added accompaniment, brimming with mental anguish as dark genies were/are brought to permeate the public mind; intoxicated with what ifs, what could have beens, and the gore that still might be!

It seems the ‘psyop’ dark magicians are attempting to rile the public mind by pushing its ‘Fear Button’.

Please see my splattering of posts here:

…I too suspect the whole thing to be a ruse, you know, a false-flag, a distraction designed to fizzle in the mind with fear.

The industry of war, or some aspects there of, are getting an itchy trigger finger; dreams of legitimizing an attack on Pakistan; attack on Iran; expanding the ‘global war OF terror’. What better way to achieve this than by cranking up the fear factor?...

What was that saying a long time ago? Fool me…fool me twice..shame on…..ya can’t get fooled again. Right!!!

“Just look at that pile of dead bastards over there,” laughs the desensitized, disposable shooter!

WikiLeaks—Collateral Murder

Peace, Best Wishes and Hope

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By ofersince72, May 11, 2010 at 8:56 am Link to this comment

I just faxed John Conyers a really smug line..

He has a lot nerve,  endorseing Jane Harmon over her
progressive challenger.

Thats why I wouln’t vote Dem or Pub for even Dog Catcher

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By ofersince72, May 11, 2010 at 8:47 am Link to this comment

I take that back, there have been several
ammanour, he is out there, tennessee as usual,
and several others, have been putting some great posts
about this.

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By ofersince72, May 11, 2010 at 8:38 am Link to this comment

Samson,  I been wondering where you were at….

I have been screaming and screaming on here,
maybe one other one…...

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By Samson, May 11, 2010 at 8:12 am Link to this comment

Sherlock Holmes once learned who committed a murder by noticing the dog that didn’t bark.

If you scan this site, do you notice any quiet, silent dogs?

The rest of the media is full of war drums beating.  The amateur bomb in Times Sqaure is being used to beat the war drums for an expanded war in Pakistan.  Not only calls from more drones and bombings (which killed at least 700 innocent civilians last year to get maybe 5 militants), but also for ‘boots on the ground’. 

We are now being told that we have to send special forces troops to Pakistan, apparently because without Pakistan no idiot could ever try to figure out how to strap propane tanks and fireworks together on their own.  Obviously anyone who tries that must have had extensive training at a ‘terrorist training camp’ somewhere.

So, the war drums are beating loudly these days.

And that’s the dog that’s not barking on this site right now.  There’s no opposition.  At least not from this sort of Democrat-friendly site.  Notice how quiet this site is on the prospects of our great progressive anti-war leader expanding our never-ending wars to yet another country.

Amazingly quiet here.  If you notice carefully, all this site wants to do is to talk about the ‘tea-partiers’.

There’s a lot not right about the ‘tea-partiers’, but at least this week they are not in the position to go murder hundreds of thousands of people like Obama, and Hillary and their favorite generals and the Democrats as a whole are apparently trying to use the sputtering Times Square bomb to do.

Is there no opposition from sites like this to the Democrats wars?  Or all we all supposed to be so afraid of a handful of nuts in red-white-and-blue calling themselves ‘tea-partiers’ that we are supposed to ignore that the current administration seems at least as anxious to expand these wars as the Bush administration did.

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By ofersince72, May 11, 2010 at 5:59 am Link to this comment

my disageement with Hedges on the other thread is minor

  we will be left with Machiavelli’s   Prince

  rather than… Nietzsche’s Superman .....

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By Paul_GA, May 11, 2010 at 5:50 am Link to this comment

Perhaps, in the end, the only thing (other than economic collapse through imperial overstretch) that would cure this country’s “war disease” would be a truly catastrophic military defeat overseas—a sort of Baatan/Corregidor and Dien Bien Phu rolled into one. A defeat that can’t be explained away or phoo-phooed or turned, somehow, into a sham “victory” (like the humiliating end of the Cambodia and Vietnam “adventures”). A defeat in which the Americans come out with their hands up, behind a white flag, in full view of the world’s press and TV cameras.

Up till now, this country has never suffered such a war-ending defeat, with the exception of the end of the Southern Confederacy. It could be argued that America needs to understand it’s not unique, and it CAN suffer a truly catastrophic war defeat.

Play with fire, and you’ll get burned. So far, America has avoided getting burned ... but it can’t last.

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By ofersince72, May 11, 2010 at 4:47 am Link to this comment

“Well, wouldst speak with me Ivan?”, quoth Abdul quite low
        “I wouldst”, replied Ivan quite clear.
    “That quarrel we had, ‘twas all to the bad
        friend Abdul Abulbul Ameer.

  “I’ve laid here for ages with that on my mind,
      and that’s why I called you tonight”.
“Well, I’m in the same state”, quoth Abdul the Great,
      “Twas foolish for we two to fight”.

“Oh friend, thou art blameless”, cried Ivan in haste,
      “The fault lies in my hands alone”.
But Abdul said “Nay, ‘twas never that way, the fault
      was no one’s but mine own.”

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By ofersince72, May 11, 2010 at 4:24 am Link to this comment

One thing is certain,  Amy and Democracy Now sure no
how to disgust people with a conscience.

Did anyone get to see just what the Oil Goons did to

If it didn’t turn your stomach, your not human !!!!

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By ofersince72, May 11, 2010 at 3:56 am Link to this comment

Over on CD, every time that I would post something
on the resource wars, one of the posters kept hitting me
over the head with Public Law 107-40.  I didn’t quite
get it first couple times so I finally read it,  it is
short,  I understood what he was trying to tell me.

The resource wars will never come to an end as long as
there is a Public Law 107-40.

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By ofersince72, May 11, 2010 at 3:43 am Link to this comment

This has been on the internet for a over a month so
you all may have read it… I got from one of the posters
at CD.

It is a comically written satire with a lot of truth.
I posted it before but if you didn’t get it then, read it.
It is entertaining.

America: The Grim Truth posted by Lancefreeman76 on
Apr 5, 2110.
There are several sites that carry this , both leftist
and conservative sites.

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By HarbourCity, May 11, 2010 at 12:01 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Spooky-43 spoke to the core of the issue.

True freedom comes from within.  There were people in concentration camps more free than the people who guarded them.  Not a physical freedom but a freedom of the mind.  The mind is what needs freedom - or at least truly believes it is free. The curtain pulls back and suddenly you are not free.  No.  You have never been free but now it suddenly matters.  If you want to win this battle you have to believe you are still free even now - and you are because you are reading this message.

The world will never be perfect and you will never be perfectly free.  For the needs of the whole override the news of the few and that is the way it should be for the survival of our human race.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 10, 2010 at 10:14 pm Link to this comment

Uncle Sham is a corporate mafia thug with a gun pointed to the world’s head. His itchy finger is on the trigger — and he really enjoys murdering people. He exults in it. One move from anyone to physically challenge his imperial dominance, or even merely to be independent, and he blows their heads off with a satisfied smile. And their children’s heads too.

Then while he struts around the bloody world stage beating his chest in self-congratulation, his corporate media whores all scream their approval and sing his praises for “fighting terrorism” and “liberating” the victims. And legions of bully-worshiping, flag-waving, fist-shaking, mental-puppet patriots join the chorus, whipped into a bloodlusting frenzy by the media whores, all eager to do further violence to anyone who dares to speak out with a genuine moral conscience.

This is how the evil establishment survives, through deception and ruthless violence. Such a strategy is foolproof, as long as most Americans remain fools, submitting their corrupted little minds to the corporate mass-media.

So we need a second Revolution to protect the world’s children from Uncle Sham. But the only effective strategy is nonviolence. If people of conscience in America use violence to defend even themselves from the U.S. government, then their own innocent children suffer too. Innocent children and adults have been horribly murdered by U.S. government thugs in Waco, Ruby Ridge, the Philadelphia MOVE house, Pine Ridge Reservation and many other places, from sea to shining sea. Uncle Sham and his thugs have never had any hesitation about murdering anyone’s children.

Basically then, we are all hostages to U.S. government violence. And as long as the U.S. military-government exists, we will remain hostages. Therefore we need to use nonviolent methods of opposition until it becomes possible to physically overpower the babykillers while at the same time protecting all children and innocent adults.

That will become possible only when tens of millions of people in America join the fight to take the satanic U.S. military-government down once and for all. And tens of millions of people will join the fight for two basic reasons:

When they become aware of the horrific realities of this world and are driven to do something to relieve the suffering of innocent victims.

When they realize it is in their self-interest to overthrow the U.S. Corporate Mafia Government.

Most people will be motivated by both reasons, to varying proportional degrees. Those who honestly care about others as much as themselves, however, have always been a minority of people in America. Those who care primarily about their self-interests have always been a majority. That’s why we have the evil government we have.

Various fascistic elements within the American plutocracy have long had plans to use covertly-sponsored “false flag” terrorism, if necessary, to coerce the American people into silence and obedience, and to imprison and mass-murder all people of conscience who resist. Such plans have been in existence at least since the 1930s. In 1962 the CIA had a plan called “Operation Northwoods” which called for terrorist attacks to be committed against Americans in Miami and Washington D.C. while blaming it on Fidel Castro and Cuba. This would have created the pretext for the kind of full-scale invasion and occupation that has been inflicted on the people of Iraq and Afghanistan. The 9-11 attacks were merely a modern-day “Operation Northwoods”.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 10, 2010 at 9:59 pm Link to this comment


“We can have a democratic society or we can have the concentration of great wealth in the hands of the few. We cannot have both.”  -Louis Brandeis.  Supreme Court Justice from 1916-1939

“This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it.”  -Abraham Lincoln.  First Inaugural Address.  March 4, 1861

What America needs, above all else, is a second Revolution to finish the work of the first one. American Revolution Two must be spiritual as well as political, and it must retain the full Bill of Rights of the current U.S. Constitution.

There is no solution to this country’s problems without the total overthrow of the U.S. military-government and the parasitical plutocracy which pulls its strings. The defeat of these genocidal state terrorists is also an essential step toward solving the entire world’s problems.

The fascist corporate plutocracy and its military-government puppets will never be reformed. Those who think the rotten system can be reformed from within are fooling themselves. The corporate/banking plutocracy has spent well over a century painstakingly creating a system which is absolutely impervious to any fundamental reform. Bourgeois reformers are toyed with and sneered at by the criminals in power. Would-be reformers merely serve to perpetuate the mass-illusion that we have a “democratic” system. People who seriously and fundamentally challenge the evil system are murdered, harassed or financially destroyed — if they can’t be blackmailed or bribed. Your vote counts for nothing and elections are a total fraud.

Therefore, the U.S. Corporate Mafia Government must be completely overthrown by the American people, and this will be done best through a spiritual and political Revolution using the basic strategy of massive, nonviolent non-cooperation.

The problem is that nonviolence requires a profound and very difficult discipline. And nonviolence can seem futile and cowardly in the face of the U.S. military-government murder of innocent children around the world. Retaliatory violence against the satanic U.S. government and its bestial military agents would be pure justice, and it is a great temptation. So the only question is: would it be more effective in the present circumstances? At this point, it clearly would not be. The U.S. military-government has the overwhelming advantage in firepower, so violence is exactly what they want.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 10, 2010 at 9:40 pm Link to this comment


By contrast it was possible for the bourgeoisie to become economically dominant or at least become an important social force even whilst the state was subject to the control of feudal elites, because the accumulation of capital was possible under feudalism, if only to a limited degree, and as such the bourgeoisie can be said to have become the ruling class or to have contested the position of the feudal ruling class before it conquered state power, this conquest marking the culmination of the bourgeoisie’s rise

The point I want to convey is that the distinction between the conquest of political and economic power is not applicable to the proletarian revolution, and you seem to be falling into the same trap as those who believe that the Cuban revolution was socialist - you think that it is possible for the proletariat to be the ruling class politically, having established its own state, whilst the economy remains in capitalist hands. I bring up Cuba because in that case nationalization and the confiscation of property owned by landowners and foreign businesses only took place after Castro had established himself and his allies as the new political elite, in 1959, which in my view is incompatible with the concept of socialist revolution, because it reduces the expropriation of the bourgeoisie to something that can be carried out by government decree, instead of an organic process that is carried out without external direction, by the working class itself. This kind of view accepts that the workers state is distinct from the organs which it (the working class) uses to exercise power over the economy, and that it is the workers state - whatever form this might take, whatever its origin might be - that, having come into existence, apparently without the bourgeoisie being expropriated and capitalism abolished, then expropriates the bourgeoisie, marking the end of capitalism - I reject this view because, to state the same point once again, the bodies that comprise the workers state are the same bodies that emerge out of the struggles of the class in the workplace, these bodies being used to assert working-class control over their workplaces and the economy, and as such it is nonsensical to say that the conquest of economic power can only happen after the conquest of political power, as if it is possible for workers to overthrow the bourgeois state whilst continuing to tolerate exploitation and oppression in the workplace in just the same way as they did before, as if political power can be meaningful whilst the bourgeoisie retains control over the economy. Look to the experiences of Labour governments in the UK and you can see that even if the state is controlled by a force that is subjectively friendly to the interests of the working class it will find itself powerless to improve the interests of that class when the bourgeoisie can undermine their policies simply by calling an investment strike - no, for the proletariat, the conquest of economic and political power are two sides of the same coin, they form a dialectical unity, they are both expressed in the same institutions - Soviet power.

As I hinted at in the above paragraph, who would be doing the expropriating in this instance? What kind of political institutions would be capable of carrying out the expropriation of the bourgeoisie, given that this conception relies on the workers state being distinct from democratic organs of power in the workplace, and having come into existence without the property of the bourgeoisie being touched, so to speak? For the Russian working class, the Soviet government’s decrees on land and workers control did not enable the expropriation of the bourgeoisie because this had already happened as a result of workers taking power in their workplaces and peasants seizing their land.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 10, 2010 at 9:23 pm Link to this comment


The expropriation of the bourgeoisie and the abolition of capitalism, which is what a socialist revolution is in the Marxist sense of the word, is not something that takes place after the working class has raised itself to political power, as a government policy, because this would entail that the conquest of political power can take place whilst the rule of the bourgeoisie in the economic sphere is left untouched. Rather, the political rule of the working class is born out of the seizure of the means of production, because it is in the process of seizing control of their workplaces that workers both destroy the bourgeoisie as a class, by transforming the means of production into the property of the working majority, and also develop the institutions that form the basis of their state, in the form of Soviets, which, whilst initially being located in individual workplaces, then generate more centralized bodies in order to meet the administrative needs of the class.

The emergence of a workers state is therefore a spontaneous process, that signifies the culmination of working-class struggle, not an act of constitutional engineering, and cannot be separated from or situated prior to the seizure of the means of production. The convergence of the conquest of political and economic power is a particular feature of proletarian revolutions because workers do not develop their economic power or the basis of their class rule under the previous mode of production, and here a contrast can be drawn between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie, as the bourgeoisie, whilst finding its interests constrained under feudalism, still found it possible to enrich itself, and make itself the economically dominant class, then going on, at a future point in time, to become the politically dominant class as well. In other words there was a temporal separation between the conquest of power in the economic and political spheres that cannot be applied to the proletarian revolution

the point here is that the working class can’t attain economic dominance under capitalism because what defines the working class and the capitalist mode of production is the immediate producers being divorced from control over the means of production and the products of their labour - when workers win economic gains (or defend their immediate interests) by taking strike action, be it through “collaborationist unions” or some other means, that does not mean that the class is making itself into the economically dominant class because these gains do not represent the class rule of the bourgeoisie being undermined or the working class extending its control over the economy. As long as capitalism exists, the proletariat will be without economic power, despite its central role in capitalist production and the enormous potential power that is possesses by virtue of this role, this reflecting the fact that it is under capitalism that mankind’s alienation reaches its highest point. It is only when the working class seizes control of the means of production and establishes its own organs of class rule that it makes itself the economically dominant class, and at this point it also becomes the politically dominant class, because these organs constitute the basis of its class rule - as such no distinction can be made between economic and political rule and the conquest of power in these spheres as far as the proletarian revolution is concerned.

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By JDmysticDJ, May 10, 2010 at 7:57 pm Link to this comment

“Freedom and equality are sworn enemies. When one prevails the other dies.” So I’d rather be free than be “equal”.

“Will Durant fought for ‘equal wages,’ women’s suffrage and fairer working conditions for the American labor force.”

I’m not equal to the task of discerning what Will Durant’s opinion was about equality. When he fought for equal wages was he fighting for the death of freedom for the wage payer? I’ll suggest that freedom and equality are complimenting values. Furthermore, I’ll suggest that there won’t be freedom for all without equality, and there won’t be equality without freedom for all. If we want absolute equality we’ll need to eliminate privilege, and if we want absolute freedom we’ll have to eliminate law.

A compromise between the two values would be defined by perceptions of social justice. Some argue that social justice would be freedom from inequality, while others argue that social justice would be the freedom for inequality. These opposing views point out the struggle between altruism and a system of meritocracy. The most famous, or infamous, statement of altruism would be “From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs,” while meritocracy is the concept that some are more “meritorious,” and should be “entitled to reward or commendation, regardless of class.”  If our society is one where class is not recognized, which is the ideal of egalitarian democracy, meritorious would only relate to merit, and class would not be a factor. (Whether our society is truly a society where class is not recognized is debatable, but beyond the scope.) The question is what defines merit, and how should it be rewarded or commended? This gives rise to other questions. Is the quest for financial reward, prestige, and power meritorious? Is a society that is governed by self interest preferable to one with more altruistic concerns? What are the consequences of a society embracing self interest as its defining philosophy? Will such a society provide social justice? Will such a society cede power to those most motivated by self interest? How will such a society interact with other societies?  Will such a society have a propensity for seeking hegemony? If so, what are the consequences of seeking hegemony?

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By gerard, May 10, 2010 at 7:20 pm Link to this comment

This from the lead article:
“We need a public debate on these issues, and Winograd is forcing one, at least in her corner of California. Scattered peace candidates are doing the same in other parts of the country.

“Search them out. Give them a hand—or a few dollars. Bug the news media for attention. Guilt-trip the media bosses. Nag the reporters. It has worked for the tea party. Why not try it for a good cause? Otherwise, the United States will continue to be mired in this fruitless war.”

This is going to be the case all over the country, come the next elections.  I’d like to suggest that TRUTHDIG give us run-downs as often as possible on different districts where candidates like Winograd need help.  That is something specific we can all do, in addition to incessantly spouting out words.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 10, 2010 at 6:44 pm Link to this comment

By DaveZx3, May 10 at 10:52 am #:  What the fuck? now you are saying that socialists are the killers in this world? and not the US military, Israel, NATO, Bush, Dick Cheney and Obama’s drones in Afhganistan?

I don’t think that Chavez and Castro have killed millions of inocent people like Israel, NATO forces, Bush and Obama.

I rest my case


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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 10, 2010 at 6:23 pm Link to this comment



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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 10, 2010 at 5:10 pm Link to this comment


Dr. Stross is a Professor of Anthropology at the University of Texas at Austin. He has conducted research throughout Mexico and Central America. As an anthropologist, he is concerned with culture, meaning, and the presuppositions that inform our interpretations of what we experience. As a linguistic anthropologist, he is interested in communication systems and social interaction. He studies languages and cultures, past and present, of Latin America, including indigenous Mesoamerica (

I found Dr. Stross on the invaluable and asked him a few questions regarding the event. Although the text is brief, Stross is logical, persuasive, and comes from a respected academic position. His response is appreciated.

Originally posted at

1) What aspects of the official story of 9/11 do you most take issue with?

I’m not sure what you mean by “take issue with”, so I’ll just say this; I like evidence, and regarding 9/11 what has been provided by the mainstream media seems to be questionable, doubtful, difficult to believe, highly suspect, clearly invented, or contrary to physical laws. The lack of transparency in the presumed investigation, the many aspects of an obvious official cover up and the way in which 9/11 was used as an excuse, contrary to the rule of national and international law, to invade Afghanistan, and then Iraq; all of these lead me to question official stories in general, and stories concerning 9/11 in particular.

2) As a professor of Anthropology, do you feel that the public rejection of any alternative theory is symptomatic of human nature?

I don’t know what the public believes, so I don’t know if indeed the public rejects any alternative theories of what happened. I can say this, however. I’ve noticed that regarding what I believe to be human nature, humans are pretty much “herd animals” for the most part, and they have a tendency to want to believe what their neighbors—or members of their reference group, be it peers or others—believe whenever possible, and they are also usually relatively easy to manipulate through advertising techniques (appealing to unconscious desires relating to sex, status, and survival) as well as by the big lie, frequent reinforcement of a message, muddying the waters, etc.

3) What does the existence and propagation of the 9/11 myth demonstrate about American society? Is adhering to myths a reoccurring theme for us?

I think that much of “history” is composed of just such constructed narratives as the “official” 9/11 myth, and adhering to myths has been a recurring theme for many in the US, but also all over the world. People generally tend to accept what they hear the most, and what they get from the mainstream media, and what members of their reference group accept.

This is how humans are socialized to be humans and how they are enculturated to the cultural norms of their societies.


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By Peter Knopfler, May 10, 2010 at 11:06 am Link to this comment

Mahalo my spiritual Amigos. Yes It took A long time to read everyones contribution, and my thoughts have ventured into the ONE WORLD GOV`t, where the distance between the rich and poor but an arms length away, no pointing or point to give anyone the finger, voice diplomatic slurs,just understand and go beyond the obvious, reach deeply for self responsibility, do not look to others. T. Jefferson, “Don`t let others do for you , what you can do for yourself”, cut your own grass, grow your own pot, farm your own food, and go back to a manufacturing Nation of good things.Remember B.Franklin, “those who give up liberty for security, deserve neither”, so keep our your, GUNS, going to need them, 12 million people do not leave quietly. Gracias, Kanes and Wahinis, see you at the border, “Don`t fence me in”!

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By Spooky-43, May 10, 2010 at 11:05 am Link to this comment

By Paul_GA, May 10 at 1:42 pm #

You wrote, “To quote Will and Ariel Durant, “Freedom and equality are sworn enemies. When one prevails the other dies.” So I’d rather be free than be “equal”.

And your wrote, “Sure, Jefferson, wrote in the Declaration of Independence, “All men are created equal”, but I rather doubt he had in mind equality of outcome, guaranteed by government”

Very, Very good point Paul_GA.  I too would rather be free than equal.  Equal has a ring of mediocrity to it, a sense that excellence is no longer strived for. 

Now, when I speak of excellence strived for I am not talking about money or possessions or power.  I strive for independence, self-reliance and self-sufficiency. I take pride in being able to do without stuff. 

I try no longer to judge other men on what they are striving for, because I don’t think it is any of my business, as long as they are not hurting me.

In America, I would like to believe that there is a good measure of equality of opportunity.  I would like to think that if one, anyone, works at it legitimately, they can live a very decent life. 

At the highest economic levels, they are fruitcakes, striving for riches beyond what they could ever use in a lifetime, and power that no man should ever have.

But I have the same thought of them, do not enslave me, do not use me, and do not think that I need you, and I will leave you alone to your own vices. 

I have found that a very good deal of freedom comes just from concentrating on your own business, and not worrying about what all the others are doing.  And that is all I ask, to be left alone, one individual, living his life with his family, according to his meager but adequate means, in freedom.  I don’t need or want a handout, because that is the stuff of bondage. 

People of all races have been able to make a good life in America, so I like to believe that racism is exaggerated greatly. 

It is my opiinion that some like to try and convince others that they are victims of racism or economics, because victims need a saviour.  Unfortunately, I think, the saviours who apply for the job, are just different types of enslavers, masters in creating the sense of victomhood to gain followers who they care very little about, in reality. 

The masters lose their power when the people help each other out and refuse to be victims.  And that is where real freedom exists, in small communities, left alone by all the big money saviours. 

I don’t need a revolution to be free, I just need people to leave me the hell alone.

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By balkas, May 10, 2010 at 11:01 am Link to this comment

Paul_GA, with respect
Structurally,or of implicatory structure of language in daily use, places the ``Freedom and equality r sworn enemies`` on level of generalizations to which right-wrong and true-false answers don`t apply.

In add`n, all generalizations are undefinable; i.e., such statements can be defined and redefined for an eternity and yet each definition of each human being differing in some aspects not only with all other definitions, but also with his own at different times.

Can one imagine confusion and etern rancour-conflict arising from not knowing this simplicity. And each person can prove this truth!
But then all isms, including americanism, catholicism, zionism, communism, socialism, etc., are undefinable terms.
As such they cannot be ever understood; only `explained`;i.e., defined and redifined; usually for millennia producing agruments, hatred, anguish,and even wars, etc.

However, each human being has an inalienable right to define any ism as that persons sees suitable to his or her understandings.

This knowledge obviates for all time all hatred, anger, frustration, etc., when defining an ism, adage, or utterance.
In short, every human being is right by her or his own definition.

EG, one can define socialism as evil, impossible to achieve, a pipe dream, etc. And one is excercizing one`s right.

However a descriptive statement that people have the right to obtain medical treatment can be answered as yes or no; i.e., yes, people have or don`t have the right to obtain medical treatnment.

No people have a right to attack another people or kill civilians. Right and wrong do apply to this statement.

However, the profound idea of a necessary truth deletes the dichotomy: since we can never know whether killing civilians in afgh`n is right or wrong; apodicticly, we err, if must, on the side of not killing innocent children and women.

This is sane! But when u want s`body`s land, sanity cannot do. Or, can sanity and killing innocent people coexist?
Regarding ``when equality prevails freedom vanishes`` structurally is an either- or form. This seldom if ever fits reality. And even if we cld agree on the meaning of the word freedom.
It is an overgeneralized term and thus meaningless-meaningful to frustration.
A hunt for the snark, i say! And a deliberate one to boot.
I further assert tat the ruling classes everywhere know what i have said in this post!

Just twelve such individuals cld rule the entire planet. And may yet come to that. Expect them to use WMD in order to do that! tnx

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By Night-Gaunt, May 10, 2010 at 10:59 am Link to this comment

Jefferson tried to make slavery illegal by having it in the Bill of Rights but it was knocked down because they needed the south to have a chance of separation from the British Empire. Sold out then and sold out continually. Even after emancipation they were still economic slaves for another hundred years. Even now too many of them get paid less for the same work done and more of them are unemployed right now than whites.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 10, 2010 at 10:24 am Link to this comment

RE: Paul_GA, May 10 at 1:42 pm

When Jefferson wrote that he was a slave owner. So it doesn’t matter
what he had in mind, the sentiment itself was disingenuous. We make our
future right here and now and we CAN push equality forward. To say “I
just don’t believe it’s possible to create an “equal” society”, simply
shows that you are not willing to try. And when it relates to ending
war for resources it shows a lack of compassion. While I agree that
true equality may never exist, it is reprehensible to discourage those
who are working to make it more equal. I don’t think most of us have
any delusions about creating a utopia just dealing with the unjust
murders caused by our own greed.

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By Paul_GA, May 10, 2010 at 9:42 am Link to this comment

Balkas, with all respect, I’m not trying to pull one over on you or anyone else; I just don’t believe it’s possible to create an “equal” society. To quote Will and Ariel Durant, “Freedom and equality are sworn enemies. When one prevails the other dies.” So I’d rather be free than be “equal”.

Sure, Jefferson, wrote in the Declaration of Independence, “All men are created equal”, but I rather doubt he had in mind equality of outcome, guaranteed by government.

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By balkas, May 10, 2010 at 8:07 am Link to this comment

U`r not trying to pull one over on people, r u?
I said that china is building an egalitarian society. In infinity of time, thus far it is an ephemeral event.
In add`n, i speak of an egalitarian society but not in an utopian sense.

But if in centuries or millennia to come people want the doctors to make the same wages as laborers or respect equally both classes of people, who am i to say no?

Even in rigid communist rule in e. europe, with so many fascists, societies there were quite inegalitarian but leaps and bounds better than that of `democratic` india, pakistan, kurdistan, egypt, et al.

In tito`s yugoslavia, people lived quite well. Unfortunately, mostly because of industrialization which also caused lots of harm.

They cld have fair life w.o. much of the industrialization. Mind u, at that time i was a lost soul and never thought ab such things! tnx

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By DaveZx3, May 10, 2010 at 6:52 am Link to this comment

By DaveZx3, May 10 at 10:45 am #

By Tennessee-Socialist, May 10 at 12:19 am #

“Che Guevara only killed capitalists, not socialists.  So if you are a capitalist and you are in the side of the capitalists if there was a revolution in the USA the socialists would have to kill you, because all real changes have blood, assasinations and violence.  Welcome to reality, reality is immoral, not utopian and perfect. 
In a revolution if revolutionaries kill capitalists only i am ok with that, i am against killing people.  But i am a revolutionary-socialist not a saint”

One other thing, are you saying that you and your socialist friends are the judge and jury of what reality is?

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By mindful, May 10, 2010 at 6:51 am Link to this comment

Unfortunately it is idealistic albeit unrealistic to suggest war can end, with a planet seeped in greed, capitalism and conpetition for resources.

If anything we are headed toward our planet’s melt down. Its really, I think, not a question if, but when.

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By DaveZx3, May 10, 2010 at 6:45 am Link to this comment

By Tennessee-Socialist, May 10 at 12:19 am #

“Che Guevara only killed capitalists, not socialists.  So if you are a capitalist and you are in the side of the capitalists if there was a revolution in the USA the socialists would have to kill you, because all real changes have blood, assasinations and violence.  Welcome to reality, reality is immoral, not utopian and perfect. 
In a revolution if revolutionaries kill capitalists only i am ok with that, i am against killing people.  But i am a revolutionary-socialist not a saint”

Are you saying that it is ok to murder people for the sake of political ideology?

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By gerard, May 9, 2010 at 9:42 pm Link to this comment

If war is a “disease” in one pplace at one time, it is a “disease” everywhere all the time. Calling it a “disease” implies that it is curable. The fact that people don’t fight all the time everywhere, backs up that conclusion.
  That would lead to a logical assumption:  That wars at some time in some places and not at other times in other places must mean that there is an activating factor, a cause, or factors and causes.
  From that it would follow that if activating factors and causes can be studied,  understood and eliminated, wars might become less frequent, less deadly and/or would be eliminated.
  Since wars continue, and even become more deadly, and practically nobody bothers to study causes and how to use knowledge to eliminate wars, that raises the question:  “How come?  And why is it that, without considering what might really be going on, people love to say “War is inevitable.  It’s a part of human nature” and thereby try to justify its continuance, citing history like a snake biting its tail?
  The truth may very well be that war is totally avoidable—that is, if enough people decide they want to make it avoidable, take the necessary steps to educate and legislate its death and take away its motivation.
  That will be a long and exciting journey worthy of what we call mankind, or humankind, with all our pretenses of being “better than animals”, a “higher form of life” etc. etc. As the world approaches the edge of the Big Cliff, it is time to bring old ideas to a screeching halt and reverse gears and try working for peace. 
  How?  Live every day dealing with everyone else by doing whatever you can to undercut, destroy and get away from violence in any and all forms. Keep a record of how it works out for you and for others.
Talk to others about it.  See what they think. Work with them whenever you can. 
  Look into the eyes of the next infant you see and ask it what it needs from you.  I guarantee you that it will speak, loud and clear.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 9, 2010 at 9:20 pm Link to this comment

Tennessee-Socialist, May 10 at 12:46 am

Why would a socialist from Tennessee care about avenging the death of
JFK? Wasn’t he a capitalist pig?

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 9, 2010 at 9:17 pm Link to this comment


Reflections of an Anti-Capitalist in Knoxville, Tennessee

“Gluttony and greed kill more than the sword.”  -Italian proverb

Another propaganda-driven greed-fest has nearly passed in the land of the corporatized and the home of the subservient. Obedient little wage slaves and consumers that most of us are (to varying degrees of course), we have once again dutifully greased the wheels of the monstrous capitalist machine and made our proper sacrifices at the altar of Mammon.

Between our voracious inhalation of all manner of edibles to our obscene spree of rapacious spending using money eagerly fronted by the usurious kings of finance capital, Mothers Day is a celebratory days indeed for the moneyed elite comprising the allegedly non-existent ruling class in our wonderful “egalitarian” and “democratic” nation.

I celebrated Mothers Day. However, I wasn’t bowing my head and expressing gratitude to the Calvinist God in which I am “supposed to” believe for the things for which I “should” be grateful.


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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 9, 2010 at 8:46 pm Link to this comment







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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 9, 2010 at 8:29 pm Link to this comment



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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 9, 2010 at 8:19 pm Link to this comment

By DaveZx3, May 9 at 5:54 pm #: Che Guevara only killed capitalists, not socialists.  So if you are a capitalist and you are in the side of the capitalists if there was a revolution in the USA the socialists would have to kill you, because all real changes have blood, assasinations and violence.

Welcome to reality, reality is immoral, not utopian and perfect

In a revolution if revolutionaries kill capitalists only i am ok with that, i am against killing people.  But i am a revolutionary-socialist not a saint

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By gerard, May 9, 2010 at 7:14 pm Link to this comment

This paragraph by dissentristpatriotic bears repeating, I think:

“If you are not an anti-national and just extremely pissed off about the injustice of the system under which we live, be an activist. Not just in thought but in deed as well.
Find a way to live off the grid to minimize your own participation and teach others understanding and compassion wherever you can. Even the hardened consumer, complicit as they may be, has children and a compassionate side. Hearts and minds can be changed right here at the source of injustice, but probably not through combative logic. I am not advocating these things because I think they will totally abolish injustice or end free-market Capitalism(it’s own unsustainable nature will
do that), but because at least then we can say that we fought the good fight for the good people.”

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 9, 2010 at 5:49 pm Link to this comment



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By SeeMe, May 9, 2010 at 5:29 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I like Boyarski, but there’s some obvious problems with this piece.

He gives a very strange recounting of why Winograd’s message is ignored.  Why a candidate like Ms. Winograd’s message doesn’t get on the local TV station has nothing to do with Tiger Woods or financially strapped news organizations. 

Instead, look at who owns the station.  Now, are they going to take actions that cost themselves money?  Probably not.  How often do you do deliberately do things that hurt you financially?  Maybe occasionally?  Maybe?  How often do you do things at work that deliberately cost the company money?  If the answer is more than zero, how often do you change jobs?

When a corporation like GE that is one of the biggest defense contractors owns a network and a group of local stations, how often do you think one of those local stations runs stories that would cost GE billions in new defense contracts?

After all, a ‘peace’ candidate like Ms. Winograd would certainly be a vote in Congress against more war funding and hopefully against the ever expanding ‘Defense’ budget that keeps growing and growing and growing. 

So, do you really expect employees at a subsidiary of GE to run stories that will cost the parent company billions in new contracts?  Yeah, right.  Now tell me again its because of Tiger Woods that her message doesn’t get on TV.

The key is to realize that the revolution will not be televised.  The corporations that own all the media outlets are not going to put forward the message of political candidates that challenge corporate profits connected to war contracts and corporate power in general.

Stop expecting that these news corporations will ever get your message out.  They will not.  Period. No matter what Tiger Woods does this year.

Instead, start planning on how you are going to win elections despite the fact that the TV stations openly support your opposition.  Start picturing the size of a grassroots organization that will be required to get your message out to the people of an entire congressional district.  Start thinking about how your are going to build that movement.

Unfortunately, most of these opposition campaigns are a joke.  The candidates are well meaning I’m sure.  But they don’t have a clue of the size of the task they face, nor of what they’ll need to do to accomplish it.  Instead, they are full of muddled thinking that for one thing always seems to assume that if they just approach the corporate media differently next time then they’ll gladly cover our message that cost their company dollars. 

Start picturing instead how you are going to get 5000 volunteers to take your message door to door every weekend up until the election.  Start thinking about the alliances you need to build, and the people you need to recruit and just how your are going to build and manage such a grassroots organization. 

I say this not because I’m negative about this being done.  Indeed, I believe that it can be done, but that most opposition campaigns are too scattered and too small and don’t even seem to see the need to build such an organization. 

Build the political machine that can put 5000 volunteers into a congressional district, then no one will ignore you. 

And if your political machine consists of three friends, well, maybe you should run for county commission or state legislature or some other office that matches your political resources.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 9, 2010 at 5:11 pm Link to this comment

RE: amunaor, May 9 at 5:31 pm

I have a tremendous amount of respect for the knowledge and truth represented
in your your last argument. Your anger is righteous! I am personally greatly
conflicted on this point. I can’t argue against anything that you said. When
someone walks into a recruiting office and signs that contract they become
complicit to everything our military does. But who in this country is not
complicit? ME, YOU and EVERYONE caused this! We go on paying our taxes, don’t
we? We buy frivolous products every day made with that oil, creating the
demand. We didn’t do everything in our power to impeach and charge the Bush
administration. If we really stood by our values we would be living a plastic
free life off the grid and doing time for refusal to pay taxes until they
stopped the killing(that is not a slight, I mean what exactly what I said).
Only then would we be non-complicit.

I would also argue that when you wrote “laughs the desensitized, disposable
shooter.” that disposable is the key word. The ‘Industry of War’ doesn’t care
any more about the soldier than it does about you, me or any of the
“foreigners” that it murders. And most of the wildly aggressive recruiting
these days happens in the poorest ghettos in our country, so I think “looking
for a payday” is a bit of an oversimplification. I agree that when someone
CHOOSES to pick up a gun that they take on a greater complicity than you or
I, but many are foolish desperate 17yr old kids who are being actively
coerced.(it is no mistake that the military is mostly made up of minorities
disproportionate to the general population)

Again, anger at murder is righteous! I personally will never pick up a weapon
against another human being and will encourage everyone I know to do the
same. I will also continue to be an organizer and an activist against war and
social injustice. But, if we ever are to change the political power structure
in this country to the degree that this sort of crime against humanity cannot
happen, we are not going to do it by marginalizing or vilifying the army

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By Paul_GA, May 9, 2010 at 3:28 pm Link to this comment

Well, Balkas, with respect, China may be an “egalitarian” society, but to paraphrase Orwell, some Chinese (those in the upper reaches of the Communist Party) are more equal than others.

And as for the things Americans seem to be learning the hard way right now as this country declines, I find myself thinking of Ben Franklin: “Experience keeps a dear school but fools will learn in no other.” Of course, those who set this country on the road to empire—Teddy Roosevelt and the rest of his contemporaries—didn’t care that one day, it would end. They only knew it would end far into the future when they were in their cold and lonely graves, so why care about the end-game? Let’s enjoy empire while we have it, and anyone who doesn’t like it, we’ll publicly condemn them as traitors and cowards who are living in the past!

Oh, well; as Jesus said, “Wisdom is justified of her children” (Matthew 11:19).

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By balkas, May 9, 2010 at 2:03 pm Link to this comment

Imo, the statement that no one learns from history or own experience, apears a conclusion. It is not a fact.
All one has to do is to look at the ranches, planes, steel-gated mansions, summer places on pacific isles of the rich americans to see that they are learning from history.

Another proof that they are learning is a-bombing japan and obtaining bases there. And how did euros obtain americas?
They knew that in order to get these pristine lands and their wealth, they had to kill people.
Now, that`s learning.

Hegel, of course, may have meant s`mthing else with that conclusion: hey, stop doing anything including drawing a different conclusion from known facts because in the end u can`t change anything,anyway
And a fascist society brings on ONLY a fascist fruit.

In any case, let us be vigilant with negative conclusions by a fallible human; that includes any of my own.
But, then, it is ok to conclude; just remember it is ONLY A CONCLUSION! tnx

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By DaveZx3, May 9, 2010 at 1:54 pm Link to this comment

By Tennessee-Socialist, May 9 at 4:46 pm #

“Of course are are killings, crime, delincuency and violence in all human societies. However the worst threat to the human species is USA.”

I’ll tell you what, if you want to believe that the US is responsible for all the world’s ills, that is your right.  I have a very different opinion.

You may live in the US.  If so, I would recommend that you leave, as it is not suiting you very well.  It is very uncomfortable hating the country you live in.

If you do not live in the US, then how about letting the people that do live here work out their problems themselves.  We are a little confused right now, because we are reeling from decades of forgetting the source of our strength and freedom.  It is starting to come back, and the overwhelming majority of US Americans are starting to see it and support it.

We have fought in many wars, and the last bunch were not worth getting involved in, in my opinion.  They have dragged us down, and made us see our bad side.  We will, however get over that soon, and I think you will see a very different kind of US American when it comes down to defending our own land from those who would wish to conquer it.  The adversity that the US will soon face will not destroy us, but strengthen us, and unite us. 

I think it is getting close to that time when the real fighting is going to begin in the defense of this country.  I promise you, we will defend it. 

Hopefully, the US will soon be out of Iraq and Iran. Maybe then it will become more obvious that the US is not the real problem there, but the people who murder their own countrymen are, and they will continue to do so long after the US has left. 

I am not justifying US presence, but I guarantee you that the killing will not slow down one bit when the US leaves.  The tribal factions of the middle east are some of the most warring, murderous people on the face of the earth, and always have been. 

As far as your friend Che, it is only out of ignorance that he has become a hero to some in this country.  They see only the image, and not the blood of the innocent people he is responsible for killing.  He is one of a long line of communist murdering, butchering thugs from around the world.
It is not humorous to us that some choose to wear his bloody, ugly face on their t-shirts.

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By balkas, May 9, 2010 at 1:34 pm Link to this comment

I do not accept a priori rejection of having a much egalitarian society; nor the conclusion that such a society wld accept apodictic principle that there is no CAUSE for warfare.

That’s the point: of necessary or apsolutely certain truth, no people has the right to attack another people under any known circumstance.

Btw, s’mbody pointed out to me that it had been aristotle who came up with the notion of necessary or certain truth ab not doing some things.

It may have taken millenia to set up an asocialistic society. Pre-clerical and pre-patrician societies had to have been guided by elders.
Yes,guided-valued-taught and not ruled by terror, miseducated, used to kill others, etc.
Their function being mainly of that of tutors-guides.
It had to be that way or i wldn`t be here today.

Let`s first set up such a society and see what evolves.
As i have said numerous times clergy, pols, plutos may not ever allow development of such a society.
Venezuella, bolivia, cuba, eg, being small can be easily destroyed.
How ab china?
It took 20 k yrs to built a fascsist structure of society. In china, like russia, there still may be many fascists; probably as much as 50% of pop.
Meanwhile, in america it was easy to set up an unjust society since its pop had always been 99.99% fascist.
There was never anyone to oppress or jail for being a socialist. Thus the free speech.Russia cld ill afford so many fascists. And it was these who along US missiles pointing at USSR, destroyed socialism in USSR.

Gorbachev proclaimed glasnost only because this constant threat and in view of A-bombing japan, expected a surpries attack on mother russia. But then which observer didn`t?
And we all know how much russians love russia and ahead of socialism.
But fascists may be bitterly surprised that there is not gonna be end of history as they crowed in 90s with fall of USSR.tnx

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By amunaor, May 9, 2010 at 1:31 pm Link to this comment

Please! Stop with the niceties; the mushy poetry; the bombs bursting in air, in celebration of murder! Anyone joining the ‘Industry of War’, thinking they are going to be trained to do nice things to other people, has a screw loose, in need of finding a screw-driver. The Industry of War teaches murder, and those who aren’t taught the fine art of killing, are taught the logistical aspects of supporting those who murder.

Stop sounding like an ad for Martin-Marietta-Boeing, “We know who we’re fighting for”; instead, help end the criminal activity of occupation.

War is a disease, celebrated by the brutish warrior cult, incubated and perpetuated in the Petri dish of its collective mind, elevated whenever ‘Industrial’ murder becomes necessary for the justification of thievery, or subjugation. Under the guise of war, all beastial atrocities are acceptable. Just look around, we’ve woven an entire economy and social structure around murder!

Many of those working class hero’s may have joined the ‘Industry of War’ looking for a payday, only because they were lured into its grip with a tempting fistful of dollars and promises of excitement; the demented join naturally because they expect to enjoy the sporting nature of the hunt. The fact of the matter is, a large number come out on the other end of this conveyer belt as trained serial killers; many missing arms, legs and other things; those poor working class hero’s will never regain their sanity, because, no matter how you slice, dice or mince the term, War is murder; legitimized mass murder.

Our greedy addictions feed ‘The Industry of War, who manufactures our serial killers, sent out in our name, manifesting as a vast, brutal military beast in defense of securing those addictions. The Military Corporatocracy, along with its Wall Street enablers obliges and panders to those addictions on both sides of the equation; couldn’t be happier.

Along with advancements in technology, has matured an escalating military desire to wash clean the mind and hands of those actually pulling the trigger, or reigning down murder from great heights. Psychologically decoupling the criminal act of murder from the game-boy, blood lust; remote exhibitions of technologic barbarity are now capable of distancing the cowardly adrenalin rush for the extinguishment of human life. Leave it to the Industry of War to pervert every aspect of science that reveals itself!

How much longer will the rest of the neighborhood turn the other cheek before the proverbial straw breaks the camel’s back?

You mention Reagan’s Chilean ‘free-marketeer’, Pinochet, how about Negroponte; who served as U.S. Ambassador to Honduras from 1981-1985; the launching pad from which the Reagan administration ran its violent “war on terror” in its pursuit of Friedman driven Free Markets? The U.S-backed atrocities and terror were condemned by the International World Court in The Hague.

A year into the invasion/occupation of Iraq, the Bush cabal hired Negroponte to oversee Operation Iraqi ‘Friedman’. Given Negropontes affinity for death squads, and his body count in the wake of overseeing Honduran purges, how and why everyone failed to smell the stench of rotting Iraqi corpses, within this guy’s footsteps, is beyond me.

Following WWII, Reinhardt Ghelan, Hitler’s right hand man; as head of Nazi intelligence and secret police, was brought into the U.S. under Operation Paperclip, and served as a ‘model’ in helping to form and structure the CIA; Ghelan is founder and father of the CIA!

CIA history leaves a wake, replete with atrocities and bloody carnage!

“I never would have agreed to the formulation of the CIA back in 1947 if I had known it would become the American Gestapo.”—Harry S. Truman (1961)

“Just look at that pile of dead bastards over there”, laughs the desensitized, disposable shooter.

WikiLeaks—Collateral Murder

Peace, Best Wishes and Hope

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By dissentispatriotic, May 9, 2010 at 1:16 pm Link to this comment

Tennessee-Socialist, May 9 at 12:31 pm

I think you’re right about a few things. One is that our culture is violent
and ultra-individualistic because that’s it’s nature by design.
It was built on manifest destiny, slavery, and war to the point that these
things have become defining characteristics of the “culture”(or lack
thereof). We have an unprecedented and unrivaled military industrial
complex because the lands and wealth produced by these violent beginnings
are vast. Envy is powerful and protecting our plunder has become the

The “me first” assimilation model is the only one that can sustain such a
free-market culture because violence and atrocities are inevitable when
people are being exploited for gain and the general population must be able
to participate, or at least be complicit, in that exploitation without
protest. This is why so many Americans are barely batting an eyelash about
their government murdering 500,000 Iraqis, even when they are faced with
irrefutable evidence that they and their government are committing vicious
unprovoked atrocities aimed only at protecting wealth and commodities.   
I find it sickeningly twisted when free-marketers, who are the biggest
proponents of this exploitative system, begin to talk about “entitlement”
as if the people wanting access to basic resources and healthcare are
undeserved. The dichotomy being that their own vast resources are embezzled
from those very people and are certainly undeserved.

I myself have very strong socialistic tendencies because I understand that
my privilege is ill gotten and I do not want to be complicit in
exploitation, destruction of the planet and murder. However, I do not hold
onto much hope that the US system will be reformed into a fully socialized
one because as you so astutely pointed out that is not in it’s nature. I
think the best we can hope for here is Socialized Capitalism(see the post
by grandpaw, May 8 at 2:32 pm/ E.J. Dionne/ Will We Keep Hating the
Government? for an excellent explanation of this idea)

If you are truly an anti-national(meaning your against your government and
pro some other), and I don’t mean this as a slant, try naturalizing to or
doing humanitarian work in the country of your choice. But I think what
you’ll find is that while injustice and violence have defined our nation
they are not exclusive to our nation and that atrocities have been and will
be committed over resources in the name of every ideology under the
sun(from socialism to Buddhism).

If you are not an anti-national and just extremely pissed off about the
injustice of the system under which we live, be an activist. Not just in
thought but in deed as well. Find a way to live off the grid to minimize
your own participation and teach others understanding and compassion
wherever you can. Even the hardened consumer, complicit as they may be, has
children and a compassionate side. Hearts and minds can be changed right
here at the source of injustice, but probably not through combative logic.
I am not advocating these things because I think they will totally abolish
injustice or end free-market Capitalism(it’s own unsustainable nature will
do that), but because at least then we can say that we fought the good
fight for the good people.

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By Artful Dodger, May 9, 2010 at 1:15 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

RE: Tenn. Socialist

More Quotes on Psychology and Psychiatry from Prominent Academics

  * “We can choose to use our growing knowledge to enslave people in ways never dreamed of before, depersonalizing them, controlling them by means so carefully selected that they will perhaps never be aware of their loss of personhood.” - Dr. Carl R. Rodgers, former President of the American Psychological Association [APA]

  * “Teaching school children to read was a “perversion” and high literacy rate bred “the sustaining force behind individualism.” – John Dewey, nationally known educational psychologist

  * “It will of course, be understood that directly or indirectly, soon or late, every advance in the sciences of human nature will contribute to our success in controlling human nature and changing it to the advantage of the common wheel.”  - Edward Thorndike, key psychology theorist, member of the Eugenics Committee of the USA

  * “We need a program of psychosurgery for political control of our society.  The purpose is for physical control of the people’s minds.  Everyone who deviates from the given norm can be surgically mutilated.  The individual may think that the most important reality is his own existence, but this is only his personal point of view…. Man does not have the right to develop his own mind… We must electronically control the brain.  Some day armies and generals will be controlled by electronic stimulation of the brain.” – Dr. Jose M.R. Delgado, Director of Neuropsychiatry at Yale University Medical School, Congressional Record, No. 26, Vol. 118, Feb, 24, 1974.  Delgado was reported as part of the “MK-Ultra” CIA mind-control program.

  * “The reduction of intelligence is an important factor in curative process… The fact is that some of the very best cures that one gets are in those individuals whom one reduces almost to amentia [feeble-mindedness]…”  - Dr. Abraham Myerson, Harvard Psychiatrist, 1942

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By Artful Dodger, May 9, 2010 at 1:08 pm Link to this comment
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RE: Tenn. Socialist

Quotes on Psychology and Psychiatry from Prominent Academics

* “Education should aim at destroying free will so that after young pupils are thus schooled they will be incapable throughout the rest of their lives of thinking or acting otherwise than as their school masters would have wished… The social psychologist of the future will have a number of classes of school children on whom they will try different methods of producing an unshakable conviction that ‘snow is black’.  Various results will soon be arrived at: first, that influences of the home are ‘obstructive’ and verses set to rock music and repeatedly intoned are very effective… It is for the future scientist to make these maxims precise and discover exactly how much it costs per head to make children believe that snow is black.  When the technique has been perfected, every government that has been in charge of education for more than one generation will be able to control its subjects securely without the need of armies or policemen.”  - Bertand Russell quoting Johann Gottlieb Fichte, the head of philosophy and psychology, Prussian University in Berlin, 1810

  * “One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order.  – K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

  * “Those of us who work in this field of Psychology see a developing potential for nearly a total control of human emotional status, mental functioning, and will to act.  These human phenomena can be started, stopped or eliminated by the use of various types of chemical substances [drugs].  What we can produce with our science now will affect the entire society.  A “utopia” could be found – providing “a sense of stability and certainty, whether realistic or not.”  - Psychiatrist Nathan Kline, 1967

  * “…yet almost everyone attributes human behavior to intentions, purposes, aims and goals… as if they had wills, impulses, feelings, purposes, and other fragmentary attributes of an indwelling agent.  We shall not solve the problems of alcoholism and juvenile delinquency by increasing a sense of responsibility.  It is the environment which is ‘responsible’ for the objectionable behavior, and it is the environment, not some attribute of the individual, which must be changed.  “If all else fails, punishable behavior may be made less likely by changing physiological conditions.  Hormones may be used to change sexual behavior, surgery [as in lobotomy] to control violence, tranquilizers to control aggression, and appetite depressants to control overeating.”  - Harvard psychologist B.F. Skinner in Beyond Freedom and Dignity

  * “The plea for the predominance of learning to read in early school life because of the great importance attaching to literature seems to be perversion.”  - John Dewey in the Primary Education Fetich

[50% of our nation’s government school children graduate from high school unable to read. – Editor]

  * “The State is the absolute reality and the individual himself has objective existence, truth and morality only in his capacity as a member of the State.”  - Communist Hegel [who influenced Karl Marx]

Psychiatry’s Views on America

“America is a mistake, admittedly a gigantic mistake, but a mistake nevertheless.”

“America is the most grandiose experiment the world has seen, but, I am afraid, it is not going to be a success.” – Sigmund Freud

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By Artful Dodger, May 9, 2010 at 12:57 pm Link to this comment
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Liberal Opposition to War without Teeth

I suggest measures that don’t require the spilling of blood, and yet such measures would be condemned as the thinking of ignorant rednecks, benighted Tea Partiers, and “Paultards”. It is as simple as not paying your US income taxes. It is as simple as urging nullification and secession upon your state legislators. We live under a government in Washington that has been captured by foreign and unpatriotic interests. It is a government that regularly ignores the will of the people, and yet the mainstream liberal commentators preach to us about not hating on the IRS. That to voice opinion against this agency which funds war, torture, and false flag terrorism is equated with being the inspiration for Joe Stack and the Hutaree militia. Tax protesters get derision from the liberal press and yet this same press feels helpless to stop war.

As to the Tenn. Socialist advocating the use of criminal elements in revolution against the government, I would like to remind him that Stalin and his kind started out as bank robbers in order to fund the revolution. I also understand that many revolutionaries Latin America started out as banditos. How has that worked out for the oppressed masses? Not well, I think.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 9, 2010 at 12:46 pm Link to this comment

By DaveZx3, May 9 at 3:19 pm # : Of course are are killings, crime, delincuency and violence in all human societies. However the worst threat to the human species is USA.  The foundation of USA in 1776 was a big mistake

USA has only been spreading death, obesity, cancer and crime around the world. Nothing good can come out of the USA.

I am anti-USA, because USA was founded as a fascist-empire in 1776. Freud said that America is a big mistake a giant mistake.  The only solution for USA is a complete overthrow of the United States oligarchic government to be replaced by a workers people’s state.  Reformism and elections won’t solve any thing.


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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 9, 2010 at 12:27 pm Link to this comment

Redhorse: Illegalism is good shit, i support revolutionary-illegalists.  We must support those movements who are against US imperialism, FARC rebels and all forms of rebellions and the fascism of USA.  Even gangs and criminals are revolutionaries

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By REDHORSE, May 9, 2010 at 12:03 pm Link to this comment

TENNESSEE SOCIALIST:Next time you’re watching a video of an “illegals” riot/protest in L.A. check out the Comandante Zero masked men in the crowd. The poster art from Latino organizations in the Southwest is straight out of Communist Cuba. Poor Mexican workers are the last people on the list of concern held by those behind the Latino Black Market weapons,papers,gun trade. Want Socialist War? I live in a warzone, complete with dead bodies in the canals and mass graves in the desert. Oh yes, and like you our University attacks America daily with reminders of what bloody racists white people are.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 9, 2010 at 12:03 pm Link to this comment

D.R. Zing: hahaha, that poem sounds like the manifesto of The Republican Party, The Tea Party, The Libertarian Party, and FOX news channel, very Malthusian, Ayn Randist and Nazi.  That’s the same ideology and doctrine of the upper class college kids of Yale, UCLA, Harvard, and most colleges, universities and think tank of the bourgoeise classes.  No wonder that Hugo Chavez said that the capitalist system is anti-christian and satanic, and that socialism and communism is christian

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By DaveZx3, May 9, 2010 at 11:19 am Link to this comment

By Tennessee-Socialist, May 9 at 12:40 pm #

“Maybe in America most americans are pro-guns, pro-death, pro-violence and pro-wars because of the libertarian individualist violent fascist philosophy of the US founding fathers.  But not all countries are like that.

EVen though there is crime and corruption in all countries, there are still many good and friendly people in this world, specially in Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia and South America.  Just because most americans have been trained and educated into being greedy, fascist, nazi and evil because of the AWOL (American Way of Life) which teaches people that killing, stealing, trashing and destroying others is good and moral, doesnt mean that all people of this world are like this.”

You are right, Socialist, there is no killing, stealing and trashing going on around the rest of the world, only in America, where the NAZI’s live.

Especially no killing going on south of the border.  So, you got me on that one.  Go back to smoking your peace pipe.  I am sorry to wake you up.

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By Paul_GA, May 9, 2010 at 11:13 am Link to this comment

Nope, there won’t be an “idyllic society”, Balkas, with all respect; in fact, if China takes America’s place as the pre-eminent country on earth, they ought not be surprised if folks start talking about those “ugly Chinese” who are throwing their weight around as if they own the world and can do as they damn well please.

One might say the Chinese are too smart to repeat other people’s mistakes, and I wish they were, but as someone once said (I think Hegel), the biggest lesson history teaches us is that no one learns from historical experience—either their own, or someone else’s.

More’s the pity ...

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By Spooky-43, May 9, 2010 at 10:50 am Link to this comment

“I am, of course, hoping that china is on its way to set up an idyllic society.”

There are, of course, some people who refuse to acknowledge that communists are the most bloodthirsty murderers of all time.  And the Chinese communists are a perfect example. 

Somebody wrote in this thread that humans are all murderers at heart.  I might agree with that, but the communists have, along with the Nationalist Socialist Germans, taken it to levels unexceeded in modern history.

I have documented much of that history since my days in Southeast Asia from 1960 to the mid 70’s. 

I would be happy to give you some facts and pictures. 

Hate to burst your bubble about the idyllic society, but guess what?  Ain’t happenin’ Jack.

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By balkas, May 9, 2010 at 10:35 am Link to this comment

How ab: God is with us but clergy-collumnists-cia-fbi-army echelons-congress-actors-singers-pols are not!

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By balkas, May 9, 2010 at 10:08 am Link to this comment

One can never obtain peace-justice-prudence in any asocialisticly-structured society [each now in its tenth millennium]

And much or ?all od muslim, christian,hindi, buddhist, bahai, and ‘jewish’ world in fierce opposition to building a gregarious-socialist-egalitarian society.

The at least ten previous millennia of experience with inegalitarianism, prove that we wld not ever have peace, etc.

Of course, the leaderships of the above-mentioned mafioso orgs, are even more fiercely opposed to building an idyllicly-structured society.

Obviously, in an egalitarian-enlightened society, their brutal powers-violence-leaderships evanesce.

I am, of course, hoping that china is on its way to set up an idyllic society. Natch, all ‘religions’ [read please ganglike orgs-cults] wld endeavour to destroy this process.

They know their mastery-privelege-soft living wld then end forever. Obviously, to evaluate that god exists, one needs no agents.

So, it’s ok to believe in god. And why wld be god so limited in his/her power not to be in direct touch with his/her flock by using agents?
It makes no sense!

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By D.R. Zing, May 9, 2010 at 9:01 am Link to this comment

Dear Tennessee Socialist,

Regarding your reply to comment, I do not disagree with anything you said. I would only ask: Have you ever heard this sweet little ditty by Jarvis Cocker?  I’m afraid I must censor the chorus because I’m not even sure the enlightened publisher of TruthDig would let it go. At any rate, do check it out sometime.

Running the Word, by Jarvis Cocker

Well did you hear, there’s a natural order.
Those most deserving will end up with the most.
That the cream cannot help but always rise up to the top,
Well I say: Shit floats.
If you thought things had changed,
Friend you’d better think again,
Bluntly put in the fewest of words….

Now the working classes are obsolete,
They are surplus to societies needs,
So let ‘em all kill each other,
And get it made overseas.
That’s the word don’t you know,
From the guys that’s running the show,
Lets be perfectly clear boys and girls….

Oh feed your children on crayfish and lobster tails,
Find a school near the top of the league,
In theory I respect your right to exist,
I will kill ya if you move in next to me,
Ah it stinks, it sucks, it’s anthropologically unjust,
But the takings are up by a third, Oh So….

Your free market is perfectly natural,
Or do you think that I’m some kind of dummy,
It’s the ideal way to order the world,
Fuck the morals, does it make any money?
And if you don’t like it? Then leave.
Or use your right to protest on the street,
Yeah, use your rights but don’t imagine that it’s heard, Oh no no….

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By ofersince72, May 9, 2010 at 8:50 am Link to this comment


Sound familier? Remember that ??



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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 9, 2010 at 8:40 am Link to this comment

By DaveZx3, May 9 at 3:17 am # You are very wrong in saying that all humans are very evil, and that all humans in all countries support killing and stealing an invader community.  Maybe in America most americans are pro-guns, pro-death, pro-violence and pro-wars because of the libertarian individualist violent fascist philosophy of the US founding fathers.  But not all countries are like that.

EVen though there is crime and corruption in all countries, there are still many good and friendly people in this world, specially in Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia and South America.  Just because most americans have been trained and educated into being greedy, fascist, nazi and evil because of the AWOL (American Way of Life) which teaches people that killing, stealing, trashing and destroying others is good and moral, doesnt mean that all people of this world are like this.


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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 9, 2010 at 8:31 am Link to this comment

By D.R. Zing, May 9 at 12:08 pm #  Hello, here is what i think happens in the USA.  I think that the cause of why americans are so brainwashed, manipulated and dumb about how the world works and about reality, is that even though statistics say that there are 280 million internet users in USA, the americans still trust the TV mainstream news a lot more than the internet-news.

And this is caused because americans are very obsolete, very traditional and do every thing by trust and faith.  If americans are in a highway or in a desert and they see 2 restaurants, a Mcdonalds and a family owned restaurant, they would eat food at the Mcdonalds and not in the family owned restaurant.

And this is the same problem with news.  American citizens trust and love a lot more Glenn Beck, Lou Dobs, and Ann Coulter a lot more than Amy Goodman, Juan Gonzalez and Laura Flanders.

This is not the case of Venezuela, Europe and other nations were people are real young in mind, real modern.  But not in the obsolete USA where people still live in the 1980s


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By D.R. Zing, May 9, 2010 at 8:08 am Link to this comment

I agree with everything in this article except the last part. The last part sounds like some nonsense someone would exhale accompanied by blue smoke from a medicinal bong. 

Hounding the media about peace will not work. 

Journalists are scared shitless of peace. They risk losing their jobs if they cover peace.  McCarthyism is alive and well in America, thank you.  Peace is akin to socialism, socialism is akin to communism, communism is akin to terrorism, hence advocating peace is the same as advocating terrorism.  It makes no goddamn sense but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. It is true. 

Christopher Hitchens won, damnit. When the Iraq war started and the government was calling its deep plants to the surface—Hitchens won.  NPR, Talk of the Nation, there is Hitchens saying if you don’t support overthrowing Saddam, you support the terrorists.  He won. 

And there’s the friendly loudmouth asshole that everyone knows and loves, the one, the only Chris Matthews taking his show to college campuses. And when a student starts shouting “No blood for oil.”  He calls her out, saying the war is a done deal. Can she do anything more than chant?  Can she talk about how the war will be prosecuted?  It’s a done deal, he repeated. It’s a done deal.  Never mind that he owned a bully pulpit where he could attempt to undo the deal. Nope.  Mr. Chickenshit gots to have his Swift Boat coverage ratings even after elections are over.  Covering the war, advocating the war, is good enough for him. If he had had the balls to fight against the war, to dedicate an entire broadcast to explaining what a bullshit sham it truly was and is, he would have been fired. 

No one will be fired for covering the Tea Party.  Get it, Mr. Boyarsky?  Hating America is okay. Hating our president is okay.  Opposing war very very bad.  Very very bad.

The only way to ever get this country back on the right track is to start at a lower level: The corporate news media must be broken up.  Journalists on the payroll or receiving benefits from any government agency who do not disclose such recompense must face decades of imprisonment.  Generals of any kind must be banned from network news.  Embedded journalists must be recognized as intestinal parasites.

Get some reform of the news media, break up the corporations that at once set policy and control the journalists covering the policy—break that up—and then nagging a journalist might do some good. As it stands now, you might as well be shouting into a bull’s ass asking to cut the crap: You can ask all you want but you better damn well duck the next he’s ready to drop a bomb.

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By ofersince72, May 9, 2010 at 7:36 am Link to this comment

Hopefully mankind will take something positive

from this tragic oil spill and stop the next war !!!!

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By ofersince72, May 9, 2010 at 7:07 am Link to this comment

“If God is on Our Side,
  He will stop the next war”  Dylan

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By Tatarewicz, May 9, 2010 at 6:26 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

it is probably true that we are just a hating and murderous people. DaveZx3

True of misfits and other incompetents who are just venting their folly.

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By GoyToy, May 9, 2010 at 12:09 am Link to this comment

A disease most often can be treated, but it’s much harder to treat a congenital condition.

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By DaveZx3, May 8, 2010 at 11:17 pm Link to this comment

I am very familiar with war - Pleiku 1966/1967.  My father was familiar as well - France 1942/1943.  My grandfather was in WWI.  Uncles and cousins with similar records. 

It would be easy to feel like a criminal, but I refuse to do that.  I am a product of my society.

War, murder, stealing and lying are predominant characteristics of the human race.  Some can repress it, but it is in them as well, perhaps genetic in all of us.

Is it realistic to think that if some viscious, murderous, alien race invaded a community, that every citizen would support every means possible to stop them, including killing them?  Is this self-defense rational?  I think most would say yes.

This is the mentality of the soldier.  He has been told, and he sincerely believes, that he is a defensive tool, and his actions are saving his country, neighborhood and family from real threats.  History gives an indication that this true.  When he starts seeing it otherwise, madness often ensues.

Our highest leaders from the public and private sectors have the responsibility of defining for our armed forces where the threats are.  The soldier is rightly trained not to question that, because questioning leads to hesitation, which is a great hazard in battle.  You cannot blame the grunt.

There is a teaching that states that hatred and murder are the same, with the exception of the actual act.  If this is true, then there are a lot of potential murderers posting on these venues, because there is outrageos hatred being expressed.

The legendary heroes of the socialist movement believed that it was justified to murder the capitalist pigs they saw as the enemy.  And our founding fathers thought themselves justified in murdering the British. 

So it is probably true that we are just a hating and murderous people.  If this apparent condition is offensive to the enlightened, what is their plan of action to adress the condition?  Where did it come from, and how do you get rid of it.

It is of no value just blaming corporations, the defense industry, governments, or other groups.  These are not the cause, but the effect.  Address problems at their source. 

The behavior manifests early in life, and you can see it clearly in pre-school children.  By the time they hit the teen years, hatred, abuse, bullying become problems which potentially can cause loss of life.

So what is the source?  How is the problem remediated?  How do we get over our murderous nature?  “Make love, not war” is cute, but doesn’t seem to work too well.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 8, 2010 at 10:27 pm Link to this comment


Scalping Bounties

Extermination was officially promoted by a “scalp bounty” on dead Indians. “Indeed, in many areas it [Indian-killing] became an outright business.”

Thomas Jefferson, writing to his Secretary of War in 1807, instructed that any native resistance to U.S. expansion into their territories should be overcome militarily, with the object that the Indians be “exterminated, or driven beyond the Mississippi.” This was sound policy, he claimed, because “in war, they [Indians] will kill some of us; we shall destroy all of them.” [Churchill, W. (1997). “A Little Matter of Genocide: Holocaust and Denial in the Americas, 1492 to the Present.” San Francisco: City Light Books, pp. 150, 181-182].

Washington’s Orders to Sullivan:

Continental Army Supreme General George Washington’s orders to General Sullivan in 1779 during the Revolutionary War made it clear he wanted the Iroquois threat completely eliminated:

Orders of George Washington to General John Sullivan, at Head-Quarters May 31, 1779:

“The Expedition you are appointed to command is to be directed against the hostile tribes of the Six Nations of Indians, with their associates and adherents. The immediate objects are the total destruction and devastation of their settlements, and the capture of as many prisoners of every age and sex as possible. It will be essential to ruin their crops now in the ground and prevent their planting more.

I would recommend, that some post in the center of the Indian Country, should be occupied with all expedition, with a sufficient quantity of provisions whence parties should be detached to lay waste all the settlements around, with instructions to do it in the most effectual manner, that the country may not be merely overrun, but destroyed.

But you will not by any means listen to any overture of peace before the total ruinment of their settlements is effected. Our future security will be in their inability to injure us and in the terror with which the severity of the chastisement they receive will inspire them.”

[Writings of George Washington. Washington, DC: Government Printing Office, XV, pp. 189-93; Drinnon, R. (1980). Facing West: The Metaphysics of Indian-Hating and Empire-Building. Minneapolis: Univ. of Minnesota Press, p. 331].

US Historical Operating Principles (several of which are explicit in George Washington’s orders):

1. Total War, civilians and combatants alike considered legitimate targets

2. Preventing/Not Wanting Peace

3. Preventive and Pre-emptive War

4. Terror

5. Torture

6. Revenge


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