that was pretty good gerard.

I would presume that a guy with a moniker and a tone of voice like “Ozark Michael” is part of the 99%.  I could be wrong, of course.If I’m right, then you and all the rest of the “Ozark Michaels” are part of the 99% and I’m glad to acknowledge it.  Not very many Tea Partier types have much influence on Wall Street, I notice, (though certain segments of Wall Street certainly make use of them), sad to say.  Anyhow, welcome to the 99%, Rightie!  Your friend, Leftie.

“Not to recognize and support the value of tens of thousands of people protesting the dominance and greed of the"top 1% is to condone injustice and advocate inaction and to accept the destruction of democracy.”

I am amazed that Leftists define democracy as residing with their own tens of thousands of people. Do the rest of us count for anything? The millions of us who support the Tea party? The millions more who are undecided about the best way forward? Do they count as part of democracy? No?

Then it isnt democracy you are advocating, but an ideological elite.

William Pfaff,      10/08/2011
      Challenging those afforded to live the life of
luxury,at the expense of the people and the environment,is an affront to them and will result in
livid ire and indifference towards the protesters. 
      Thanking you for this opportunity to comment -
      James M. de Laurier

The pessimism in many of these comments is politically pathological.  Not to recognize and support the value of tens of thousands of people protesting the dominance and greed of the"top 1% is to condone injustice and advocate inaction and to accept the destruction of democracy.
  Without protest against injustice of any kind—economic or otherwise—“one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all” == is nothing more than an impossible dream.
  Prophesies of the uselessness of protests are all premature and therefore empty, since noone can know
the future. Negative reactions of all kinds, however, tend to decrease the effectiveness of the protest.
  Why put your weight—tiny though it is—on the side that already holds most of the power? Balance of power is already grossly skewed in favor of the 1%; that’s what’s wrong to begin with.
  If you know of any better way to bring about a better balance and more fairness, now’s the tme to suggest it.

Mr Pfaff,
Are you suggesting that taking up stakes and moving to a truer democracy is the only option? Past oppressions by the powerful and rich were committed in different times under different circumstances as you mention. Maybe we have the right mix of tyranny, revolt and outrage among the majority, but I confess that I doubt it too.

cpb : I Dig what you wrote ,the cancer is spreading .

Lafayette complained about my term ‘ditzy lady’ for congresswoman Nancy Pelosi. Lafayette apparently thinks its too rough, and so he labelled my choice of words as ‘scurrilous name calling’

Funny. Lafayette complained about ‘ditz’ just after he used this term on congressmen: scoundrels, and here is his description of Americans who dont vote the way he wants them to: muddleheaded fools

Fine. I will let Lafayette have his way and i will elevate my remarks to his level. So ditz this:

Nancy Pelosi is a scoundrel and i am glad that the muddleheaded fools who kept voting her into office wont be able to do so during the next election.

Hopefully Lafayette is happy now that i raised my commentary to his level. But probably he wont be.

Which surprises no one. We all know how hypocritical the French can be.

W. Pfaff’s assessment of protesting in the US is correct. He says:

“In short, Americans are not much good at successful popular protest. The
mass of people think that’s what Europeans do, like the French. In America,
“the system works.”

Neither the civil rights movement nor the campaign against the Vietnam War
threatened the core of the economic and financial power. And that’s why they
produced results.

Protests, letter writing to officials, and all the other common expressions of
discontent are at best things that politicians play with to come up with their
individual strategies.  But they don’t challenge those who actually run the
country. Has a general strike ever taken place here? Do people even know what
a general strike is?

Voters continue to support the two ruling parties unconditionally. The way
things are right now, there’s not much hope for successful protesting although
it is refreshing to witness what’s taking place.

@ Lafayette,

So somehow, given the limited options, the media
manipulation, the billions invested in PR and spin, the
average Sally & Joe are capable of achieving a
“Reformation of the Political Class” through some
magical twist on the DIEBold lever?

Your ideas are sound, academically perhaps.  You are
idealizing the situation and continuing to blame Sally &
Joe.  You acknowledge the obstacles when it suits your
argument and in the end it is still the fault of the
person on the street, in the voting booth. 

That is denial.

btw I live in Canada and the same right wing forces that
have hijacked the conservative mandate exist here also. 
Our system has been under attack for years by the powers
that want profits over care.  The government has been
cutting health and education for years in the name of
the mythical rising tide to float all boats via lower
taxes for rich and corps.  Now the right wing gets to
point to the inevitable weaknesses they have created and
use this to justify bringing in additional privatisation
reforms.

There is a social war taking place and the majority of
the victims don’t know they are embattled.  The reason
they do not understand has nothing to do with their
level of born intelligence and everything to do with the
information control that is in the hands of those making
war.

Continuing to proffer that the status quo is the
reprehensible result of poor ballot box choices is
disingenuous obfuscation.

Bill: Although your article is well taken in general ;your Punch line is typically useless and displays the Colors that you fly.

STICKS AND STONES ...

OM: ditzy lady

The “ditzy lady” just announced that she was not running for election next year. The other “ditzy lady” is still there blathering idiocies to all and sundry.

Ditz this: De gustibus non disputandum est.

You have descended into scurrilous name-calling. Which surprises no one.

oh, lets not leave the ditzy lady out of the picture.  Nancy Pelosi supports the Occupation too:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/65368.html

What Truthdig wont tell ya, i will.

Leftists have a lot of emotion but they are a little behind the curve as usual.

The complaint about not being heard was lodged on day one, even though the media covered the Occupation.

Now you complain about not being heard. sheesh Here is obama himself:

I think [the movement] expresses the frustrations that the American people feel that we had the biggest financial crisis since the great depression, huge collateral damage all across the country, all across main street. Yet, you’re still seeing the same folks who acted irresponsibly trying to fight efforts to crack down on abusive practices that got us into this mess in the first place. I think people are frustrated. The protestors are giving voice to a more broad based frustration about how our financial system works.

REFORMATION OF THE POLITICAL CLASS

cpb: How does that work exactly?  You recommend doing what on the next ballot?  To what end?

To vote the scoundrels out of office and those adhering a progressive agenda, the purpose of which is to address national Income Inequity, into office.

Any poor fool can see that.

If the rich “buy” elections, it is by manipulating the electorate by means of media messaging. Why the American people believe the mindless nonsense thrown at them during elections is a mystery. They must be muddleheaded fools and deserve what they get as an outcome.

If the other half who do not vote stay away from the polls out of disgust, it is because the candidates proposed are colourless party apparatchiks offering pap for the masses as a “program”. The US has a political class largely fixated on self-advancement and cares little for representing the interests of their constituency.

If those who represent us in Congress were concerned truly for their constituency, they would have never voted the tax rules that allowed a massive transfer of wealth to the upper classes.

Progressive candidates with a desire for an egalitarian program of Social Democracy furthering the well-being of all Americans and not a select few must be found.

That change can be brought about at the ballot box - by American voters who want reformation.

Otherwise, immigrate to Canada - you’d be better off with Health Care and Educational systems that function properly.

Mr. Pfaff:  If American government is so indifferent to protests, how come it spends millions on “surveillance” to be sure that protest is muted?  How come the corporations that support politicians
spend so much money to control media and encourage them to “report” protests only by skewing them to make them look insane and worthless?  Since both business and government do everything they can to pervert and squelch public protest, their behavior seems to indicate that they deeply fear facing public criticism. Add to that the fact that both government and business make meaningful access to their offices extremely difficult.  Why?
  And by the way:  If this were not so, things would likely not get to such an impasse and “the system” would just naturally be more able to self-correct to avoid crisis. It’s the various attempts to misinform, frighten and bottle up “the public” that
so puts democracy at risk by concentrating power at the top and ignoring misery at the bottom.

Nurse Cavlan:  While you are blogging, how about un-blogging your blog of some weeks ago tearing into Amy Goodman?  Hope you caught her show on Occupy Wall Street today, Oct. 6.  Best yet!

Today President Obama took the entire hour of The
Price Is Right to give his speech.  Why can’t he
give his speeches during the 1pm Soap Operas?  I’m
starting to think someone somewhere has a sense of
humor.  The Price Is Right? It sure is in Washington.
Maybe, it’s God with the sense of humor.

SINCE ONLY ABOUT FORTY PERCENT OF ELIGIBLES VOTE…THE WINNER IN
MOST ELECTIONS GETS TWENTY THREE PERCENT OF THAT VOTE..SO IN
ESSENCE A MINORITY GOVERNMENT IS IN PLACE…BECAUSE THE MAJORITY
IS REPULSED BY THE HARRY HIGH SCHOOL COMEDIC ATMOSPHERE OF THE
ELECTION CYCLE…THAT SPAWNS ENOUGH LIES TO FLOAT A
BATTLESHIP…THEY ABSTAIN…THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT AND
MILITARY..WALL STREET AND CORPORATIONS ARE FEASTING ON THEIR
OWN INTESTINES…MILITARISM AS POLICY HAS RAINED TERROR ON VIET
NAM..IRAQ..AFGHANISTAN AND THE COUNTRY OF
PALESTINE…FACILITATED BY ZIONISM…ALL POOR COUNTRIES…GERMANY
AND JAPAN MILITARISM DESTROYED ITSELF…AMERICAS MILITARISM IS
FOLLOWING THEIR EXAMPLE…

“I am looking forward to the day when, finally, a Social
Democrat faction, with egalitarian values, can establish
itself on the American political landscape. Then, and
only then, will life get better for All Americans and
not just the select few who of the Plutocrat Class.

MY POINT

Our Real Power is in the ballot box, not on the streets.
For the moment, our indignation must be expressed where
it does the most good - street-side. We are still a long
way from November 2012.”

  - Lafayette

For crying out loud Laf would you make up your mind? 
Nothing egalitarian on the landscape to counter the
plutocrats but the power is still in the ballot box? 
How does that work exactly?  You recommend doing what on
the next ballot?  To what end? 

You talk an interesting talk but always, unfortunately
IMO, conclude as an apologist for the status quo.

@ Robespierre,

I believe your criticisms are what are “hollow” here. 
When the powerless have no other recourse but to take to
the streets it is more than a little holier than thou
and inappropriately dismissive to call them out for not
having come to the table ready to rebuild society. 

The other side of that coin is that means and ways to
build an alternative society are ‘out there’, have
always been, and, due to the usual mechanisms of
repression, are unable to grasp a toehold of public
awareness, let alone discourse.

Isn’t it perfectly obvious that, aside from anger and
frustration, the Occupy crowd have gone out in the
streets because many of them just don’t know what else
to do?  Pointing that out is irrelevant and
disrespectful of the motivations and the realities of
the folk in the street.  They are pointing to a stark
reality that the majority need to wake up too.  That is
enough.

Regrettably, Pfaff may have nailed the probably outcome. Personally, what I would like to see are masses camped before the Capital building, demanding the return of Glass-Steagall Act, the reversal of the decision to regard corporations as legal persons, and a *very* comprehensive reform of the lobbying system.

The Tea Party is an astroturf outfit and is dead in the water. Why? Because its program cannot deal with any facet of the multifaceted crisis facing the people. And that is the acid test of any movement which arises in this country.

Fox news covered the demon-strations their way (Sarcastic and slanted) It is such a clear and present danger to believe anything that they air as it owned and operated by the status quo that doesn’t want the public to know the REAL TRUTH

Lets not ignore the fact that everytime the smallest number of Tea Baggers gather, it is all over the news. This isn’t about the media not being interested in demonstrations. It’s about the media not being interested in liberal demonstrations.

@Lafayette

Kidnapping or “extraordinary rendition”?

Torture or “waterboarding”?

Recession or Depression?

>>Moreover, the Great Depression spawned unemployment
rates as high as 20%...<<

Depends how it’s measured, doesn’t it, and how it’s
measured has been fiddled with since.  Take a look at
the current U-6, and the loss of buying power of the
dollar (-94%) over the last 76 years, and from 24
cents from 1971 to about 4.5 cents today.

@cpb, you basically just expressed some hollow, postmodern response to what I posted. My basic point is that the government isn’t paying much attention because nobody has of yet offered a serious ALTERNATIVE, it’s not about threatening the world’s lone superpower because the same results are being seen in Europe. In Spain and Greece for example, the governments there are very easily passing harsh austerity measures because so far, the protest movements (in Greece’s case since 2010) have failed to offer the people an alternative they can rally behind and be inspired with.

It is a symptom of our postmodern era which can be seen in the way protest “leaders” promote political change without political ideas, revolt without revolution, they demand “change” without bothering to really think about what it means, “democracy” without bothering to articulate the application it, instead of promoting the idea that we can change things the governing idea is “let’s shout and maybe the fatcats will do the changing for us.” The protests are indeed a hopeful sign that the people of this country are not completely dead or beaten, but eventually when the initial euphoria dies down, the question of the real work that needs to be done will become more persistent,and the answer cannot be “vote for Obama” or “vote for Ron Paul.”

REAL POWER

cpb: These punks have no foresight I tell you!

Neither did the Minute Men who, after having skirmished with the British infantry, were heard to yell “Long Live King George Washington!” (They had no notion whatsoever of a “democracy”.)

Neither did the French rabble that stormed the Bastille and then marched out to Versailles to bring the French King to his prison in Paris.

All such movements, when they evolve spontaneously from the grass-roots, take on a life of themselves. It is later that wisdom prevails and a movement assumes its formal shape by influencing opinion in a hitherto somnolent Congress. (Who could not distinguish “populism” from Peter Pan, so fixated are they in the dense thicket of LaLaLand on the Potomac.)

Descartes (17th Century): I think, therefore I am.
Descartes Updated (21st Century): I’m seen on TV, therefore I am.

I am looking forward to the day when, finally, a Social Democrat faction, with egalitarian values, can establish itself on the American political landscape. Then, and only then, will life get better for All Americans and not just the select few who of the Plutocrat Class.

MY POINT

Our Real Power is in the ballot box, not on the streets. For the moment, our indignation must be expressed where it does the most good - street-side. We are still a long way from November 2012.

“The Obama regime remains indifferent because the protests are not threatening the system itself in any way”

- That’s kinda presumptuous.  I suspect the Obomber regime remains indifferent for many reasons.  And since when has ‘threatening the worlds only superpower’ become a measure by which an expression of dissent should be judged?

“so far it’s still a loud chorus of people saying “I’m pissed off!”.. “

- That’s entirely true, from a chosen perspective, absolutely correct.

“..but without any serious plans to storm Versailles or the Tsar’s palace.” “

- Yeah?  And?  So?

“Consider that no one’s even thought of that one essential protest tool: The general strike.”

- More presumption.  These punks have no foresight I tell you!

“If anything Obama is probably planning with his minions how to turn this into some sort of “Vote Obama 2012” deal, if the Ron Paultards don’t beat him to it. And with the big unions getting involved, expect Obama to be smacking his lips at the prospect of new voting cadres.”

- Well you got me there.  Bang on.

Kind of busy these days.

There are now 123 occupations in progress of being planned in the very near future.

Far too busy to bloggity blog about blogs blogging about the thoughts of bloggity bloggers.

Ciao Baby

LOTUS LAND

WP: Today’s depression has lasted for only half that, but there are no European arms orders coming, and the American defense industry is already running at full speed.

Not quite that, William. It’s a “recession” and not a “depression”.

But what are words when you are out of a job? Well, they do matter. This recession is not yet into its fifth year, if the starting point of 2009 is chosen - we’ll be getting there though in 2014.

Moreover, the Great Depression spawned unemployment rates as high as 20% ... see here. We are nowhere near that summit.

But that isn’t your point, really. Your point is well made - our modern-day journalism is in Bad Shape if it cannot report on events beyond the Beltway both large and small - and this one is not small.

Besides, indeed, what is needed to focus attention on the harm done to the nation by the lack of regulation on Wall Street? Despite the Supreme Mess the banksters caused, many of the them walked away from it with more money than Bonnie & Clyde ever dreamed of obtaining.

These banksters ARE the Bonnie & Clyde of the 21st Century. Hurry up, Hollywood, somebody make a movie whilst the iron is hot! 

No? Not even a book of the caliber of Steinbeck’s The Grapes of Wrath?

Oh, damn! The national political apathy must indeed be as thick as molasses in Lotus Land.

Another factor consider from the 1930s, at the time the world was very seriously dealing with the consequences of the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia which meant there was a radical, revolutionary alternative capitalists feared everywhere to the point where Churchill openly approved of Fascism as in this quote:

“I could not help being charmed, like so many other people have been, by Mussolini’s gentle and simple bearing… if I had been an Italian I am sure that I should have been whole-heartedly with you from the start to finish in your triumphant struggle against the bestial appetites and passions of Leninism.” Winston Churchill, 1927

So politicians like FDR and others, especially in Europe, began passing more progressive, social democratic reforms which both provided some relief for workers and kept the Red menace at bay. Today nobody is proposing a serious alternative so Obama and the bankers will just hide behind their walls and let everyone vent.

The Obama regime remains indifferent because the protests are not threatening the system itself in any way, so far it’s still a loud chorus of people saying “I’m pissed off!” but without any serious plans to storm Versailles or the Tsar’s palace. Consider that no one’s even thought of that one essential protest tool: The general strike. If anything Obama is probably planning with his minions how to turn this into some sort of “Vote Obama 2012” deal, if the Ron Paultards don’t beat him to it. And with the big unions getting involved, expect Obama to be smacking his lips at the prospect of new voting cadres.

Slowly, slowly the demonstrations are spreading and growing and the MSM is being forced to divert a shred of its attention away from Amanda Knox to cover it.

My brother B’Berry’ed me from Wall Street.  Proud of him!

Pfaff misses, of course, a VERY effective demonstration and “protest”, one that brought 80-odd newcomers to Congress.  Just because the Tea Party is reactionary and bigoted doesn’t mean it doesn’t qualify as one of Pfaff’s movements.