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After Religion Fizzles, We’re Stuck With Nietzsche

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Posted on May 9, 2010
AP / Olivier Laban-Mattei

By Chris Hedges

It is hard to muster much sympathy over the implosion of the Catholic Church, traditional Protestant denominations or Jewish synagogues. These institutions were passive as the Christian right, which peddles magical thinking and a Jesus-as-warrior philosophy, hijacked the language and iconography of traditional Christianity. They have busied themselves with the boutique activism of the culture wars. They have failed to unequivocally denounce unfettered capitalism, globalization and pre-emptive war. The obsession with personal piety and “How-is-it-with-me?” spirituality that permeates most congregations is narcissism. And while the Protestant church and reformed Judaism have not replicated the perfidiousness of the Catholic bishops, who protect child-molesting priests, they have little to say in an age when we desperately need moral guidance.

I grew up in the church and graduated from a seminary. It is an institution whose cruelty, inflicted on my father, who was a Presbyterian minister, I know intimately. I do not attend church. The cloying, feel-your-pain language of the average clergy member makes me run for the door. The debates in most churches—whether revolving around homosexuality or biblical interpretation—are a waste of energy. I have no desire to belong to any organization, religious or otherwise, which discriminates, nor will I spend my time trying to convince someone that the raw anti-Semitism in the Gospel of John might not be the word of God. It makes no difference to me if Jesus existed or not. There is no historical evidence that he did. Fairy tales about heaven and hell, angels, miracles, saints, divine intervention and God’s beneficent plan for us are repeatedly mocked in the brutality and indiscriminate killing in war zones, where I witnessed children murdered for sport and psychopathic gangsters elevated to demigods. The Bible works only as metaphor.

The institutional church, when it does speak, mutters pious non-statements that mean nothing. “Given the complexity of factors involved, many of which understandably remain confidential, it is altogether appropriate for members of our armed forces to presume the integrity of our leadership and its judgments, and therefore to carry out their military duties in good conscience,” Archbishop Edwin F. O’Brien, head of the Archdiocese for the Military Services, wrote about the Iraq war. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, on the eve of the invasion, told believers that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein was a menace, and that reasonable people could disagree about the necessity of using force to overthrow him. It assured those who supported the war that God would not object. B’nai B’rith supported a congressional resolution to authorize the 2003 attack on Iraq. The Union of American Hebrew Congregations, which represents Reform Judaism, agreed it would back unilateral action, as long as Congress approved and the president sought support from other nations. The National Council of Churches, which represents 36 different faith groups, in a typical bromide, urged President George W. Bush to “do all possible” to avoid war with Iraq and to stop “demonizing adversaries or enemies” with good-versus-evil rhetoric, but, like the other liberal religious institutions, did not condemn the war. 

A Gallup poll in 2006 found that “the more frequently an American attends church, the less likely he or she is to say the war was a mistake.” Given that Jesus was a pacifist, and given that all of us who graduated from seminary rigorously studied Just War doctrine, which was flagrantly violated by the invasion of Iraq, this is a rather startling statistic.

But I cannot rejoice in the collapse of these institutions. We are not going to be saved by faith in reason, science and technology, which the dead zone of oil forming in the Gulf of Mexico and our production of costly and redundant weapons systems illustrate. Frederick Nietzsche’s Übermensch, or “Superman”—our secular religion—is as fantasy-driven as religious magical thinking.

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There remain, in spite of the leaders of these institutions, religiously motivated people toiling in the inner city and the slums of the developing world. They remain true to the core religious and moral values ignored by these institutions. The essential teachings of the monotheistic traditions are now lost in the muck of church dogma, hollow creeds and the banal bureaucracy of institutional religion. These teachings helped create the concept of the individual. The belief that we can exist as distinct beings from the tribe, or the crowd, and that we are called on as individuals to make moral decisions that can defy the clamor of the nation is one of the gifts of religious thought. This call for individual responsibility is coupled with the constant injunctions in Islam, Judaism and Christianity for compassion, especially for the weak, the impoverished, the sick and the outcast.

We are rapidly losing the capacity for the moral life. We reject the anxiety of individual responsibility that laid the foundations for the open society. We are enjoined, after all, to love our neighbor, not our tribe. This empowerment of individual conscience was the starting point of the great ethical systems of all civilizations. Those who championed this radical individualism, from Confucius to Socrates to Jesus, fostered not obedience and conformity, but dissent and self-criticism. They initiated the separation of individual responsibility from the demands of the state. They taught that culture and society were not the sole prerogative of the powerful, that freedom and indeed the religious and moral life required us to often oppose and challenge those in authority, even at great personal cost. Immanuel Kant built his ethics upon this radical individualism. And Kant’s injunction to “always recognize that human individuals are ends, and do not use them as mere means” runs in a direct line from the Socratic ideal and the Christian Gospels.


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By Inherit The Wind, May 16, 2010 at 7:03 am Link to this comment

TD3:

Here’s a word of advice:

You are in a hole. Stop digging.

Report this

By Jimmy the Great, May 16, 2010 at 6:43 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

thanks for your profound thoughts on the fallings of Catholic church.

What religion would you suggest I shall worship now?

Jimmy

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 16, 2010 at 6:20 am Link to this comment

Listen here truedigger3 I am not, I repeat, I AM NOT, running
a kissing and hugging salon!  Not even an electronic one!  My gawd,
what do you want to do, ruin my reputation?  Now there will be no
kissing or hugging with the She here!  Way…ell, I’d be giving you
a hug, but just a hug mind you.  Only cause you hates me so much.
That would be a very Christian thing to do, wouldn’t it?  I mean, if
you wrote just a tiny bit like Nietzsche, who was a real woman hater,
it might be all right, I’d feel honored, ennobled.  He would never call
anyone names even though he was repelled by women, except old
spinsters, cause he couldn’t have Cosimo, another man’s wife!  He was
refined in his hatreds.  He hated organized religions as well.  He spoke
like a Buddhist.  But genuine Buddhists do not harbor any hatreds.  He
was just brim full of hate.  Very few people liked him, if any.  He did
not have any friends.  No one understood what he was talking about. 
Most people don’t today.  Night-Gaunt is the only one I see on
these forums who has a clue.  Nietz, well he was messed up, but still
refined.  I’m afraid your learning has been deficient.

By the way, you are wrong.  My comment about your being a
housebound pervert came after an attack by you!  Did I hit a nerve?
The truth hurts.  You take a pot shot at me like a sniper on any and
every thread we ever appear on.  Shall I recall your first blow at me on
this one?  Then blow by blow I will recreate the attacking
truedigger3!  I never call anyone a name unless they shoot first. 
But when they do…

Report this

By elisalouisa, May 16, 2010 at 6:07 am Link to this comment

Chickenballs and Chickenlittle

Sorry Leefeller, looks like there won’t be any awards this year.
Chicken Little took on the spirit of indignation on this thread and felt
that chickens were being denigrated by the term chicken balls. Isn’t that the expression often used? Do I have it right? Anyway, he as of now refuses to sign the contract allowing use of his name.

Report this

By truedigger3, May 16, 2010 at 6:00 am Link to this comment

This post was sent inadvertently, before editing and completion, and here it is again, hopefully corrected:
———————
ITW wrote:
“So I am especially offended when some insecure male, who’s been bested intellectually by a female, resorts to calling her names designed to demean and attack her personal attractiveness “
_____________________________________________________

ITW,

Do you comprehend and remember what you read?
I just explained to you in a very recent post, that this whole episode started by Shenonymous attacking me, and calling me a “house bound pervert”, that is why I attacked her and NOT because, as you claimed, she “bested me intllecually”, is she??!
As I said before, she is knowledgable and has prowess in philosophy and abstract logic, but the instant she ventures into history or current events and try to tie facts and events with simple commonsense, she immediately stumbles and falls flat on her face, and I think that is largely due to she is trying to bend and obfuscate the facts in blatant and dumb ways to corrolate with her agenda. In my humble opinion she is intellectually and ethically bankrupt, and you know it, but hey, she is a groupee for the Zionist contingent.

Report this

By truedigger3, May 16, 2010 at 5:42 am Link to this comment

ITW wrote:
“So I am especially offended when some insecure male, who’s been bested intellectually by a female, resorts to calling her names designed to demean and attack her personal attractiveness “
_____________________________________________________

ITW,

Do you comprehend and remember what you read?
I just explained to you in a very recent post that this whole episode started by Shenonymous attacking me and calling me a “house bound pervert”, that is why I attacked her and NOT because she as you claim “bested me intllecually”, is she??!
As I said before, she is knowledgable and has prowess in philosopy and abstract logic but the instant she ventures into history or current events and try to tie facts with simple commonsense she immediately stumble and fall flat on her face, and I think that largely due to she is trying to bend and obfuscate the facts in blatant and dumb ways to corrolate with her agenda. In my humble opinion she is intellectually and ethically bankrupt and you know it, but hey she is a groupee for th

Report this

By truedigger3, May 16, 2010 at 5:23 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous wrote about herself:
“She is the certainly the recipient for a lexicon of berating names mainly from what appears to be impotent Middle Eastern men who deservedly get demoralized by a female in their attempt e-abuse Her”
____________________________________________________

Shenonymous,

Just because a couple of Middle Esatern men failed with you because you are so ugly and repulsive and hygiencially challenged, that doesn’t mean that all Middle Eastern men are impotent.!!
There are about 200 million people in the M.E.
How did all these people come to this world, stupid??!!

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 16, 2010 at 4:53 am Link to this comment

She,

Don’t analyze me.  It’s not complicated.  You face an issue by naming the issue. You don’t pretend the offender didn’t say what he said: You throw it back in his face, again and again and again, until he cannot deny, avoid, obfuscate or try to come back at you!

Sure, you are offensive.  So am I. And so are many of our adversaries. But I am also a feminist, who believes that women should be encouraged to be strong and find their place in the world based on merit. 

So I am especially offended when some insecure male, who’s been bested intellectually by a female, resorts to calling her names designed to demean and attack her personal attractiveness (“Hag”) and her position as a respected member of society (“Whore”).

It’s like every guy knows if you want to demean a woman, no matter how talented, brilliant, and excellent she is, you call her “fat”, “ugly” and, now (as in the case of Ms. Kagan) “closet lesbian”.  No matter what, it hurts her and THAT IS THE INTENT!  It’s the weapon of final resort.

And that’s why these guys call you those things: It’s their weapon of final resort and I want to name the issue again and again and again to disable and neutralize that weapon.  I’m not a hero. I’m just doing what is right and what I believe in, for my wife, for my nieces, for my sons so they see what is right, and for the women they will eventually marry.

Report this

By Peter, May 15, 2010 at 11:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I don’t know if anyone already pointed this out, but ubermensch is most appropriately translated as “overman”, not “superman”.

Report this

By truedigger3, May 15, 2010 at 11:15 pm Link to this comment

Re:By Inherit The Wind, May 16 at 1:58 am #

Even you, ITW, I am disappointed, but Okay, come down and join the forray but please save your moral indignation. Your beloved, Shenonymous, started it all by calling me a house bound pervert.
You do find Weefeller funny!!! That is funny, ITW!!
For that you deserve a hug and a kiss from your beloved, Shenonymous!!
And if you get more naughtier with me, watch out, she will do you more!!!

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 15, 2010 at 11:00 pm Link to this comment

No no no no no, ITW, don’t go shooing him away.  He always
comes back for more.  Besides She needs Her Caliban, which is an
anagram for the Spanish world canibal or in English cannibal.  But on
the other hand, the name Caliban (as that groveling freckled monster
found in Shakespeare’s Tempest) is also thought to originate from the
Arabic word ‘Calibon’ for “wild dog.”  The Hag & Whore needs
something to kick around once in a while and Her other favorite
dogs have disappeared.  And TD3 has a perverted need to be
kicked (ergo the stiletto heels) so we are a perfect pair.  S&M in some
circles.  And we provide much entertainment for the residents who
rarely get up and push away from their computers to maybe eat and go
to the bathroom maybe get 40 winks.  Well She isn’t so much of a Hag
but I wouldn’t testify for or against that second claim.  LOL

Mannnn,  She is the certainly the recipient for a lexicon of berating
names mainly from what appears to be impotent Middle Eastern men
who deservedly get demoralized by a female in their attempt to
e-abuse Her.  Isn’t that interesting?  There isn’t an intellectual among
them.  But what is even more Freudianly interesting is how you like to
repeat the names, as if you take some kind of voyueresque pleasure in
a second hand kind of way.  It is curious how you do that.  You might
reflect on that a bit.  Leefeller is much more respectful in his
choice of words in his occasional honorable and unsolicited defense of
the Shester.  It is quite distinguished how he does that.

Nite nite f’sure.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 15, 2010 at 9:58 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, May 16 at 12:52 am #

Yup, 5 Yups… Even though not a true Christian, She smiles as She
clicks away in Her stiletto heels and flaming red hair blowing the
smoke trail from Her pistolas before slipping them with precision into
their holsters.

Looks like Tennesee-Socialist is suffering mental spasms AGAIN.
*******************************************

Again?  How can you tell the difference?  I see one of his posts, all in caps, and I merely go on to the next one, such as watching TD3 come to a gunfight of wits carrying nothing more than a butter knife. 

Almost feel sorry for ol’ TD3.  Then I see him pull a “Robert” and call She a Hag and a Whore and that feeling goes right away.  Either that or he should learn not to drink and post.

Then after a PARTICULARLY wicked and funny post by Leefeller, TD3 says LF isn’t funny anymore!
ROFLMAO at that!

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 15, 2010 at 9:49 pm Link to this comment

I’m saving all my hugs for you, truedigger3, smiling as She
saunters away in Her stiletto heels, pulling out Her pistolas
...again.  Hmmmmm She smiles again, as She flips open each
chamber to see if She has to reload any e-bullets.  Nup, She’s got
plenty.

Nite nite.

Report this

By truedigger3, May 15, 2010 at 9:16 pm Link to this comment

OzarkMichael wrote:
“Shenonymous said of truedigger3: who cannot get enough battering, and has learned to love it and can’t live very well without it.

truedigger3 sounds a little stale and shabby lately. I think he needs a good beating to freshen him up.”
_________________________________________________

Oza,

Are you projecting yourself on me, Doc.!?
I will add to what elisalouisa said, and say that you sound like those idiot zionist Christians, who only quote from the Old Testament, and forgot completely everything about the New Testament and the true teachings of Jesus Christ.
You too deserve a loving embrace from Shenonymous.

Report this

By truedigger3, May 15, 2010 at 8:58 pm Link to this comment

Weefeller wrote:
“Truthdigger3 calling me Weefeller is most disturbing, since Robert conjured up “Weefeller” using all available intellect and his one faculty,  now TD3 plagiarizing Roberts innovative exclusiveness “
__________________________________________________

Weefeller,

How is it that someone calling you with your real name is plagiarizing your name. Yor are getting very naughty and mischevous, Weefeller, but unfortunatley still not funny.
Now, I think you deserve the cruel and unsual punishment from Shenonymous!.

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 15, 2010 at 8:52 pm Link to this comment

Yup, 5 Yups… Even though not a true Christian, She smiles as She
clicks away in Her stiletto heels and flaming red hair blowing the
smoke trail from Her pistolas before slipping them with precision into
their holsters.

Looks like Tennesee-Socialist is suffering mental spasms again.

Report this

By elisalouisa, May 15, 2010 at 8:12 pm Link to this comment

By OzarkMichael, May 15 at 11:17 pm #
Shenonymous said of truedigger3: who cannot get enough battering, and has learned to love it and can’t live very well without it.

truedigger3 sounds a little stale and shabby lately. I think he needs a good beating to freshen him up.
***********
Spoken like a true Christian and I am sure with a smile on your face. You continue to carry on the Christian tradition so often mentioned on these threads..

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 15, 2010 at 7:55 pm Link to this comment

Truthdigger3 calling me Weefeller is most disturbing, since Robert conjured up “Weefeller” using all available intellect and his one faculty,  now TD3 plagiarizing Roberts innovative exclusiveness with little more than a regurgitated raspberry to Robert, is most upsetting, so before using the Weefeller thing again, you should ask Robert for his permission!

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 15, 2010 at 7:33 pm Link to this comment

elisalouisa,

It has been rumored Artiee is getting his toe nails done! Actually he mentioned he was going on to bigger and better things, which must mean he passed the greeter exam at Wal Mart which also means he had to do something with his skate board.

Anyone know what happed to Omop, hopefully he is working on his one liners!

You guys may not remember Billy the Dick, now there was a guy who was funny, but then I believe he became a Republican!

Now I get it! The Chicken Little Award is sort of like the Oscars, at the end of the year….. Now I get it, this really changes everything!

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OzarkMichael's avatar

By OzarkMichael, May 15, 2010 at 7:17 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous said of truedigger3: who cannot get enough battering, and has learned to love it and can’t live very well without it.

truedigger3 sounds a little stale and shabby lately. I think he needs a good beating to freshen him up.

Report this
Tennessee-Socialist's avatar

By Tennessee-Socialist, May 15, 2010 at 7:13 pm Link to this comment

THE USA HAS BEEN RULED BY SATANIC EVIL WICKED MEN SINCE 1776 WHO INSTALLED AN OLIGARCHIC-PLUTOCRATIC DICTATORSHIP IN 1776 WITH THE GOAL OF ROBBING THE WEALTH OF USA IN A FEW OLIGARCHS USING THE MAJORITY AS WAGE-SLAVES AND TAX-PAYERS

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+15&version=NIV

Job Chapter 15 -The Holy Bible

1 Then answered Eliphaz the Temanite, and said,
2 Should a wise man utter vain knowledge, and fill his belly with the east wind?
3 Should he reason with unprofitable talk? or with speeches wherewith he can do no good?
4 Yea, thou castest off fear, and restrainest prayer before God.
5 For thy mouth uttereth thine iniquity, and thou choosest the tongue of the crafty.
6 Thine own mouth condemneth thee, and not I: yea, thine own lips testify against thee.
7 Art thou the first man that was born? or wast thou made before the hills?
8 Hast thou heard the secret of God? and dost thou restrain wisdom to thyself?
9 What knowest thou, that we know not? what understandest thou, which is not in us?
10 With us are both the grayheaded and very aged men, much elder than thy father.
11 Are the consolations of God small with thee? is there any secret thing with thee?
12 Why doth thine heart carry thee away? and what do thy eyes wink at,
13 That thou turnest thy spirit against God, and lettest such words go out of thy mouth?
14 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?
15 Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight.
16 How much more abominable and filthy is man, which drinketh iniquity like water?
17 I will shew thee, hear me; and that which I have seen I will declare;
18 Which wise men have told from their fathers, and have not hid it:
19 Unto whom alone the earth was given, and no stranger passed among them.
20 The wicked man travaileth with pain all his days, and the number of years is hidden to the oppressor.
21 A dreadful sound is in his ears: in prosperity the destroyer shall come upon him.
22 He believeth not that he shall return out of darkness, and he is waited for of the sword.
23 He wandereth abroad for bread, saying, Where is it? he knoweth that the day of darkness is ready at his hand.
24 Trouble and anguish shall make him afraid; they shall prevail against him, as a king ready to the battle.
25 For he stretcheth out his hand against God, and strengtheneth himself against the Almighty.
26 He runneth upon him, even on his neck, upon the thick bosses of his bucklers:
27 Because he covereth his face with his fatness, and maketh collops of fat on his flanks.
28 And he dwelleth in desolate cities, and in houses which no man inhabiteth, which are ready to become heaps.
29 He shall not be rich, neither shall his substance continue, neither shall he prolong the perfection thereof upon the earth.
30 He shall not depart out of darkness; the flame shall dry up his branches, and by the breath of his mouth shall he go away.
31 Let not him that is deceived trust in vanity: for vanity shall be his recompence.
32 It shall be accomplished before his time, and his branch shall not be green.
33 He shall shake off his unripe grape as the vine, and shall cast off his flower as the olive.
34 For the congregation of hypocrites shall be desolate, and fire shall consume the tabernacles of bribery.
35 They conceive mischief, and bring forth vanity, and their belly prepareth deceit.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 15, 2010 at 7:02 pm Link to this comment

USA NEEDS A SOCIALIST REVOLUTION AND AT THE SAME TIME A SPIRITUAL CHRISTIAN-MORALITY REVOLUTION. A MORALITY CHRISTIAN REVOLUTION, TO CHANGE THE AMERICAN SOCIETY FROM THE PRESENT STATE OF IMMORALISM, DECADENCE, CRIMES, RAPES, SEXUAL IMMORALITIES, ALCOHOLISM TO A PARADIGM OF ALTRUISM, HUMANISM, LOVE AND HONESTY.

ALONG WITH A WAR AGAINST ALL FORMS OF IMMORAL BEHAVIOUR, LIKE SEXUAL IMMORALITY, FORNICATION, ADULTERY, ALCOHOLISM, FOOD-ADDICTIONS, LAZYNESS, PESSIMISM, HATRED TOWARD OTHER HUMAN BEINGS, EGOISM, EGOCENTRISM, GREED, MONEY-ADDICTION AND MATERIALISM.

.

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By elisalouisa, May 15, 2010 at 6:27 pm Link to this comment

Slow day on Truthdig, at least concerning the regulars.

Anyone see any posts by ardee?

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 15, 2010 at 6:16 pm Link to this comment

Well! That went nicely!

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By Shenonymous, May 15, 2010 at 4:52 pm Link to this comment

M’thinks you are the one taking the hike, truedigger3.  I am
tenacious and if I lost any credibility no one but you have said so.
You are just twitching because you cannot best me.  That is because
you have nothing to add to this forum’s discussion, nothing at all.  So
what kind of credibility do you think you have?  Zilch.  And I don’t
care a blink what you think as you have not earned any respect at all.
You only rant and viciously call me and others names and never provide
any real sources for you pontifications.  No one cares what you think. 
Have you seen anyone say they care what you think?  No.  Personally I
don’t care one whit what anyone thinks of me, personally, least of all a
blowhard like yourself.  You have the gall to call me denigrating
personal names.  If the content of what I say is not appreciated, then
fine.  But you have no call to attack my person.  I will fight back and I
will deal heavy blows.  I have no emotional attachments to anyone on
these forums.  I offer sources, tell my limitations, and set it out for
consideration, that is all that really matters,  if it is not appreciated,
that is the way it goes, and I will stand corrected if presented in a civil
manner and my life will still be quite fine and so will the world for that
matter.  I am comfortable in whatever information I gather together
either from my own learning and sources or that which I can collect
elsewhere.  I am always willing to listen to substantial arguments that
will allow me to check their premises out.  I am always willing to learn
but not from some blockhead who thinks every word he says is a pearl
of wisdom. 

There are several on these forums who show their acumen, wit, and
intelligence and I have indicated my appreciation for their thinking and
learn from them.  One’s ability to think and present some basis for their
thought is all that is evident on these forums.  But I am not so vain to
think anybody"really” cares what I think about their comments or
anyone else’s either.  We are here to contribute to a conversation not
make patronizing pronouncements then call people names and act like
a thug when anyone presents something different from held beliefs.  I
hit on the truth of your pretentiousness and fraud.  You have shown
that you are a gyp and that is why you are slinking away.  I have no
venom, though I can sling mud as well as the next person.  I just have
disgust at your ugly infantile attitude and reactive incompetence to
contribute to the discussion.

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By truedigger3, May 15, 2010 at 3:00 pm Link to this comment

Re:By Shenonymous, May 15 at 5:09 pm #

Shenonymous,

You feel better now after releasing all your venom.
Okay Great, now take a long hike and get lost because I don’t want to waste any more time on your nonsense.
Needless to say that you lost all credibility with me and with many posters here in truthdig and I have zero respect for you.

Report this

By Harry, May 15, 2010 at 2:24 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“But I cannot rejoice in the collapse of these
institutions. We are not going to be saved by faith
in reason, science and technology, which the dead
zone of oil forming in the Gulf of Mexico and our
production of costly and redundant weapons systems
illustrate. Frederick Nietzsche’s Übermensch, or
“Superman”—our secular religion—is as fantasy-driven
as religious magical thinking.”


You lost me here. A utopian society is built of
individual ‘Supermen’. Each unit must be self-
governing, capable of interacting with the whole. Why
you think a society full of perfect people would not
lead us to salvation is beyond me.

Also, you’re writing off science and technology as a
bad thing because it produces ocean dead zones, oil
spills and weapons? You’ve lost your mind. To make an omelet, you’ve got to break some eggs. Science cannot
be without mistakes. But to say we should abandon
science AND religion because they are imperfect is
ridiculous. Perhaps you should make an attempt to
understand what both religion and science has to
offer, rather than merely critiquing their faults.

Society is built by humans. Perfect humans build
perfect societies. Imperfect societies are built by
imperfect people. To become perfect, one must become
a narcissist to the extent that they are fully aware
of their actions and the consequences of their
actions, both good and bad.

So if you have a problem with society, you need only
look in the mirror to see what the problem is.

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By Shenonymous, May 15, 2010 at 1:09 pm Link to this comment

You show signs, truedigger3, of the battered husband
syndrome who cannot get enough battering, and has learned to
love it and can’t live very well without it.  Course you probably
don’t have a wife, for what kind of a woman could stand your
misogyny.  It shocked you to hell to find the same strong kind
of woman who will oblige you in your perversion right here on TD. 
You no longer have to go out and pay for it.  Sseee I’m saving you
a lot of money.  LOL You would be really funny if you weren’t so
grotesque.  I can see I hit the nail on the head when I guessed you
were a housebound pervert, gotcha!  You deserved it for all your
frenzied hate-filled flapdoodling name calling of the Shepotamus, uh,
moi.  You take all your hatred of women out on me and you know what,
I’m okay with it. You just picked the wrong woman to shovel your shit
at.  Ahs gots the thick skin of the Shepotamus.  I can dish it right back
exponentially in your face and you hate me even more,  Yippie yie
yayyy kiyayyyy!  Catharsis is good for the sick soul.  Western women
are not like the oppressed slavish Middle Eastern women, which are the
only kind with whom you can integrate.  But you and your kind of man
will be fossils in the not too far future as Muslim women become more
and more liberated.  It is happening right before your very eyes and
that too gives you more fuel to hate me for.  As I said, your slurs and
curses roll right off my back.  Do you kick women too?

Did you know, naw, how would you, Nietzsche did not like women very
much either?  He was a mess when it came to women having had to go
to brothels.  Poor thing.  Real women didn’t want to have anything to
do with him.  He was sick in love with anther man’s wife, Cosimo
Wagner who just shined him off as did her husband.

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By truedigger3, May 15, 2010 at 12:36 pm Link to this comment

By Leefeller, May 15 at 2:21 pm #

Weefeller wrote:

“.....you ass hole Truthdig3…...
I do not know what caused your outburst but Truthdig3 was it important? Wouldn’t it be prudent to control these outbursts!”
_______________________________________________

Weefeller,

The reason for the “outburst” was that your beloved Shenonymous wrote before that addressing me:

““I suspect truedigger3 that you are one of those housebound perverts that needs to be denigrated in public and just keep baiting me to serve your abnormal need. “

Is that not good enough reason and justification for that outburst for you, ass hole.??!!
By the way, ass hole, you need much more wiping.!!
I told you many times before, that you are not funny any more.!!
I hope you get your just punishment which will be a hug and a kiss from your beloved Shenonymous, and watch out that might progress to something more, but that will be cruel and unusual punishment. You are irritating but not that bad.!

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By truedigger3, May 15, 2010 at 11:43 am Link to this comment

warsong wrote:
“I know very few Muslim’s that I ‘don’t’ like. And, even then it’s not a visceral thing…..”
____________________________________________________

warsong,
I heard that before, as a matter of fact, I heard people say “I met Arabs/Muslims who are the nicest people I met in my life”, and that was comming from people who were dripping bigotry and prejudice against Arabs.
Your attitude and writings contradict what you are saying.
You claim that you were in the Middle East for 6 years and it seems to me that you have learnt nothing REAL about the people there.
Were you all that time in the M.E. living in isolated compounds or military bases where everything is provided even McDonnalds and Pizza huts!!??

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By Leefeller, May 15, 2010 at 10:21 am Link to this comment

Gee wiz! Nice to know peace and courtesy is not an option, let the food fight begin!

Is it only obvious to me, sexism is alive and well or is it a combination of sexism and some sort inferiority complex?

Gender of some posters is known and and many not known, it seems to me possibly posters who are known to be female and named She, seem to become a target for sexist pigs.  Now my sexist pig days are log past, for I realized long ago, it is the persona being most important, not the gender or race or political proclivities or even a deluded religion does not matter, unless they happen to be Methodist!

My tenure posting here on TD, I admit I have insulted a few posters, but every one of them deserved it.  My tolerance of ignorance and stupidity is what it is. Though I have never resorted to name calling for that would be crass, insulting and even belittling,.....  you ass hole Truthdig3, what the hell are you doing running for dip shit of the year award, such an imbecile you seem!

Now I was being polite!

I do not know what caused your outburst but Truthdig3 was it important? Wouldn’t it be prudent to control these outbursts! Now I would never surmise why She wrote   the following?

“I suspect truedigger3 that you are one of those housebound perverts that needs to be denigrated in public and just keep baiting me to serve your abnormal need. “

But I suspect she….. had her reasons!

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By MarthaA, May 15, 2010 at 10:10 am Link to this comment

Ya ha ha way, May 14 at 3:26 am,

Careful, mocking God is conducive to calamity, bad health and short life for oneself or ones posterity, if one who mocks God has any posterity, because what you sow, you will reap.

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By Warsong, May 15, 2010 at 10:06 am Link to this comment

By Tennessee-Socialist, May 14 at 4:09 pm #


“Warsong: Hello, were you raped by a muslim or something? Why do you hate muslims? Muslims haven’t done any thing against USA. 9-11 was done by The Republican Party and by the Israeli Mossad agents, not by muslims.  So i don’t understand why you hate muslims and why you bash muslims.”

Well, Tennessee-Socialist, you seem to have mistaken me for someone else. I know very few Muslim’s that I ‘don’t’ like. And, even then it’s not a visceral thing, just dissatisfaction for one reason or another. Anna shuf wajid muslim every day, work with them, horseplay with them and have great respect for most of those I work with here in Baghdad. I’ve known or met Muslims in Saudi (5 Projects), Syria (4), Algeria (1), Indonesia (1), and, Iraq (5 years) and, truthfully still call them “Sadik” (friend). A few refer to me as Haji, and, some Habibi. I’m not really clear on the connotations of that last Arabic word, so I shy away from using it except with very close friends (supposedly, it’s Brother, but the suffix ‘i’ turns it into “My Friend,” and, this seems to imply something a little closer than that).

I really can’t think of any Race or Ethnicity that I’ve ever disliked because of that factor. I look a man in the Eye and judge him by the mind behind the Eyes. One, Zaid Albu Mohammed, is probably as good a friend as I’ve every had, and, he may be the best Generator Mechanic/Technician in the entire Middle East. But, he has this little quirk that probably goes back to his families 12,000 year old business: “Ali Baba Trading and Repo.” Their motto is: “You need it, we got it. You got it, we’ll get it. We gaurantee.”

Zaid is as good a friend as I’ve ever had, and, as good a man as I’ve ever known (aside from his little quirk).

Almost every really good working buddy (and, friends off the job) before I went overseas (as well as here in Iraq) was black. I look back over the years and I can see where they deliberately paired me with them, because I accept them for the ‘person’ they are, not the color of their skin (“Shep” Sheppard, Willie Taylor, Derrick Withers, Warren Curry, Charles Brown Sr, and, Jr., etc. the roll call is long). They were my brothers and runnin’ buddies.

Which, one might think a bit strange since I’m descended from all eight wives of Charlemaine (Charles the 1st, Holy Roman Emporer), on both sides of the family. Beyond Matthew Arundel “The Immigrant” Howard, and, his wife, Annie Hall (middle to late 1600’s), both sides explode into the Royal Families of Europe.

But, ya know, I’m just an old Cowboy who’s parents saw fit to ensure (and, provided) an education that the public schools couldn’t provide (got a lot of degrees that I never use or think about, but, not straight out of High School). The most interesting, and, useful course I ever took, was: “Colorful Words, Inflammatory Phrases, Ad Hominem Attack, Advertising, Propaganda, and, Brainwashing - 101.” It helps to spot the phonies, and, those who simply have no idea what they’re talking about…just running words, attacking everything they don’t understand.

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By Shenonymous, May 15, 2010 at 9:11 am Link to this comment

Hag and Whore? Yup, I’m the best Hag and Whore on Truthdig. I get
to hone my skills at being the best H&W with practice on you.  Now
what truedigger3?  Do you have anything else sooooo intelligent
to pull out of your as?  Or are you constipated again with yourself?
LOL and ROTFLMAO Sorry but the pharmaceuticals just have not
invented a laxative for stuffed up shit minds like yours yet.  But keep
on the look out, it could happen enema day now.

Isn’t it interesting that I am not the only one on Truthdig that has such
a fine opinion of you? I often enjoy reading their comments about your
shortcomings.  You really ought to get yourself to a senior rest home
as whatever you may have ever had to contribute to society is obviously
long past any further usefulness.  Go play canasta or something.  You
demonstrate that you cannot think past your buttocks, like mannn,
every time you post!  And you really have to stop worshipping at my
temple!  It is sapping whatever strength you have left.

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By truedigger3, May 15, 2010 at 8:18 am Link to this comment

Re:Shenonymous, May 15 at 12:23 am #

Shenonymousr wrote addressing me:
“I suspect truedigger3 that you are one of those housebound perverts that needs to be denigrated in public and just keep baiting me to serve your abnormal need. “
____________________________________________________

Shenonymous,

Are you projecting yourself on me, you isolated ugly hag.?!
Are your utterances that of a respected college professor or the utterances of a drunk low level street whore??!!

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By Shenonymous, May 15, 2010 at 7:10 am Link to this comment

Good morning ITW.  You are right, I did not give any voice to
the ‘havoc wreaked’ on the world, New or otherwise, by the Spanish
Inquisition.  I had written a piece about the oppression and slaughter
of indigenous peoples on the North and South Continents of the West
by the Conquistadors and somehow it got left out in my eagerness to
edit down to manageable posts.  I’ve added the information you’ve
provided to my small compendium of this information.  It cannot be
left out.  The General in His Labyrinth by Gabriel Garcia Marquez is
a fascinating overdramatized fictitonal account of the Liberator Simon
Bolivar in his attempt to liberate and unify South America.  Also a film
does an incredible job of raising consciousness, The Mission and
the docudrama End of the Spear is about five American Christian
missionaries who were killed in their attempt to evangelize a tribe in
Ecuador in an ironic reverse effect of religion on primitive peoples.

Of course there are better history books but these are intriguing
illustrations below the surface of ordinary history book fare. 

Mention must be made on behalf of Native Americans who for 500
years of oppression by the Christian Nation of the United States finally
in the 20h century became protected by the First Amendment of the
Constitution along with the American Indian Religious Freedom Act
(AIRFA), yet it is still under attack by political factions and is assailable
because no provision for enforcement was included! 

What ought anybody to do?  Weep.  Weeping is good, it cleanses
the soul.  Clean souls seem to ‘see’ better, then act better.  As long as
they are not crocodile tears.  I often wonder, though, if there isn’t a
world-wide change in humanity afoot with the advent of the ubiquitous
internet that real contemplation of what is or is not moral? 
Consciousness is expanding in terms of who are conscious of the
atrocities man commits on other men and the planet.  I feel viscerally
that something is starting a new age.  Whenever significant collective
consciousness changes occur those involved are not aware it is going
on as it is going on and it is only in retrospect that it is detected.  I
don’t know, maybe not.  But it is historic that everyone who has access
to the computerized world along with television is kept made aware of
what is going on in the world even if the reporting is biased. 
Communication is almost instantaneous.  The talk is incessant, just
look at Truthdig and the thousands of blogging that goes on
continuously, just to think about it is staggering.  The impulses to
oppress people continues but eventually the tyrants will be brought
down. 

Anarcissie, you speak well of what seems to be suspiciously the
truth.

It would seem Leefeller The Benevolent Atheist can live peacefully
as long as their atheism is not advertised on TV? But it seems sides of
busses are not included.  Atheists In the Closet might become a
political force?

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By Leefeller, May 15, 2010 at 6:51 am Link to this comment

Deciding on not believing in the existence of something seems the ultimate oxymoron and the need to defend this unbelief even more so. 

Now as a person who is not in love with the concept of pain, especially my own, I would probably become a going through the motions believer in appearance person, otherwise a hypocrite of deceptive repute in show, but be a skeptic unbeliever or cynic in reality.

For it seems the benevolent Atheist may not exist in peace.  To believe in unbelief, one must be ever vigilant to protect ones atheist person from harm, therefor it seems the true Atheist must be an orthodox militant Atheist or a well,..... well
hidden one, seemingly a hypocrite to ones self.

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By Anarcissie, May 15, 2010 at 6:50 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous—Most body counts vary wildly from one historian to the next, usually depending on which axe they’re grinding and how far the slaughter in question is in time and space from the likely reader.  In some cases (Russia, for example) it has thus far been impossible for me to find a historian who is not ideologically committed to one axe or another.  I suspect that now that Islam has become the official enemy, for lack of a better one, a similar fog will descend over the history of the regions it occupies, and the peoples it befuddles.  Certainly it will in the case of body counts and other atrocity stories.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 15, 2010 at 5:17 am Link to this comment

“I would accept any authentic rebuttal to this information. “

OK. You completely ignored the havoc wreaked on the New World by the Spanish and their Inquisitors who followed the Conquistadors closely.  The numbers of wrongful deaths is literally in the millions.  They brought down and destroyed the Aztec, Mayan and Inca nations, societies and culture, and they did it ALL in the name of Christianity. Massive numbers of books and scrolls from all 3 societies were burned as “pagan” and “satanic”

Then there’s the slave trade since the Bible said the Children of Ham were to be “hewers of wood and drawers of water”, ie, slaves.  Estimates range as high as 10 million people kidnapped and forced into slavery.  Most went to Caribbean or Latin American plantations where they were worked to death as expendable resources and a small percentage were diverted to the English colonies where they were viewed as capital investments.  All in the name of the advancement of Christianity.

“What would Jesus do?”  He’d weep.

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By Shenonymous, May 14, 2010 at 10:50 pm Link to this comment

I was going to hold off until morning to give respect to
OzarkMichael’s request, though I thought it was a bit
impertinent, but since Outragedtoo has put off any comment for
a few days, I am not obliged to wait that long even though I would like
to see what he has to say as well.  He is very polite, and that is very
refreshing.
1.
Dostoevsky’s most provocative chapters of writing is called the Grand
Inquisitor found in he book The Brothers Karamazov. It was the pivotal
piece of literature that helped me along in my resigning from religion
which I thought at the ripe old age of 16 was the most powerful
statement I’d ever read.  For others it was had the opposite effect and
set them to seek to be more deeply religious.  Funny how a piece of
literature can be an effective catalyst to take opposite paths. 

The antagonist, the Grand Inquisitor was really about a poem written by
Ivan the middle brother who explained his idea to his younger brother
Alyosha who had been raised in a monastery.  The space of the poem
was Seville, Spain and its time was 15th century during the Spanish
Inquisition.  The burning of heretics had become commonplace.  As it
goes, Jesus returns to terra firma, quietly appearing unannounced.  His
aspect was recognized and the people who believed were overjoyed and
gathered around him much as they did in the 1st century.  He went
about his ‘usual’ healing and raising from the dead occupations and as
he was raising from the dead a young girl who laid in her coffin also
unannounced and as a surprise visit, the Grand Inquisitor appears at
the door in the form of a very old wrinkly man of about 90 years of
age, tall and gaunt in looks. He ordered that Jesus be arrested which
highly excited at Jesus’s return the crowd now fell silent.  Jesus also
silent was thrown in to a prison cell. 

The Grand Inquisitor visited Jesus during the night, asking Jesus why
he should return just at this time to ‘impede’ the Inquisition in their
work?  He argued that Jesus had done his work 1400 years earlier and
his popes had done his work for him.  Jesus was no longer needed on
earth since the church was better able to give the people what they
needed.  As it turns out after a bit more of this interview and the Grand
Inquisitor’s denunciation of Jesus that centered around three questions
the Devil, Satan, had asked Jesus when he had been tempted in the
desert. 

Satan asked first, “If you are the Son of God, command that these
stones be made bread.” Jesus answered,  ” It is written, Man shall not
live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth
of God.”  Then after taking him to the holy city to a high pinnacle,
Jerusalem, Satan asked again, “If you are the Son of God, cast yourself
down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee:
and in their hands they shall bear you up, for fear that at any time you
were to dash our foot against a stone.”  Jesus replied “unto him, It is
written again, Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God.” The third
question came at the height of a mountain showing Jesus all the
kingdoms of the world and the glory that was theirs, and Satan offered,
“All these things will I give you, if you will fall down and worship me.” 
Then said Jesus, “Get you away, Satan: for it is written, You shall
worship the Lord your God, and him only shall thou serve.” Then the
devil left him, and angels flew in and comforted him.  At the end of
Ivan’s poem, the silent Jesus kissed the Grand Inquisitor who in return
told him to “Go and do not return, do not come again, never never!” 
Jesus left without speaking a work.  The Grand Inquisitor felt the kiss
that “burned in his heart” but he remained firm in his own ideas and
unbelief.

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By Shenonymous, May 14, 2010 at 10:46 pm Link to this comment

2.
While the Tribunal of the Holy Office of the Inquisition, or for short,
the Inquisition, might have been conducted by those wanting to
increase political authority, it was for the prime purpose of apostasy,
to coerce on pain of torture and death, that new converts remained
orthodox and afraid to recant.  The Ad Abolendam, gave the sanction
from Pope Lucius III to create the Inquisition to repel the force of the
gnostic Christian sect of the Languedoc region of France who held
there were two gods, one of good and one of evil and abstained the
Roman Catholic dogma.  The Inquisition was the reply to the Spanish
society in the 15th century that had developed as a multi-religious
aggregate including the recapture of the Iberian Peninsula by the
Muslims (the Moors).  The Inquisition in Castile was to ferret out and
punish what were called crypto-Jews, who practiced Judaism secretly
while being forced to convert under the duress of being murdered to
either Christianity or Islam.  And much could be said about that event,
but not now, not here.  Mention must be made that Protestants were
not forgotten by the Inquisitors either but the cases were far and few
between mainly because there were only a few, relatively speaking, in
Spain. The actions of Sixtus IV is an amazing testimony of the waffling
between authorizing the Inquisitions and then stopping them, yes for
purely political reasons, and the power of the church and ought to be
studied in that light.  The Inquisition was all about forcing the ‘faith’ on
the non- and unbelievers. 

To say that the Inquisition had nothing to do with Christianity begs the
question what is Christianity such that the Inquisition was able to use it
for its treacherous purposes and that their God the clergy so
desecrated did nothing, if indeed this is a God of humanity, to obstruct
breaking the first seven commandments seen in Exodus 20:2-17?

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 14, 2010 at 10:34 pm Link to this comment

MarthaA: Hi, i am sorry to disagree with you but both traditional parties of USA are the same thing.  They have the same economic and political system, they praise the free market, the privatization of public companies, low-wages for workers, taxes for the poors, tax-cuts for the rich, the building of a fascist wall between Mexico and USA, and the worst of all they both wage wars on behalf of Israel and both parties are controlled and loyal to Israel, to corporations, to The Pentagon, to The Military Industrial Complex and not to US citizens


.

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By Leefeller, May 14, 2010 at 9:58 pm Link to this comment

If I am going to make a case, it would be with the Hamster guy!  I am not going to praise no stinking hamster whether it is a ditty for someone or not.  Why would I want to praise a hamster because someone else does or says I should?

And then we have Nemesis initiating us about   Jeebus on a cheese sandwich which I find really remarkable, I ask, has anyone ever found a Hamster on a cheese sandwich, praised or not, Hamster guy?

Anyway I have my own ditty of choice and mine is the only real ditty for it is written, indexed and hyphenated even perspired!  It is never nice to praise my ditty, it is said,  if one does she will show them what for! Few people know her and we like to keep it that way, for she is the Great Unyun. Now the Great Unyun may not be like a Jeebus on a cheese sandwich, but most likely some have known her as the Unyun on a hamburger.

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By MarthaA, May 14, 2010 at 9:23 pm Link to this comment

Religion fizzled when Jesus walked the earth, this is nothing new.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 14, 2010 at 9:21 pm Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt: Here is a good site for what you were talking about, i mean about creating a system which could take out the worst mental elements of us like pessimism, hatred, lazyness, negativism etc.:

http://hedweb.com/hedab.htm

THE HEDONISTIC IMPERATIVE
A B S T R A C T

This manifesto outlines a strategy to eradicate suffering in all sentient life. The abolitionist project is ambitious, implausible, but technically feasible. It is defended here on ethical utilitarian grounds. Genetic engineering and nanotechnology allow Homo sapiens to discard the legacy-wetware of our evolutionary past. Our post-human successors will rewrite the vertebrate genome, redesign the global ecosystem, and abolish suffering throughout the living world.
     
Why does suffering exist? The metabolic pathways of pain and malaise evolved only because they served the inclusive fitness of our genes in the ancestral environment. Their ugliness can be replaced by a new motivational system based entirely on gradients of well-being. Life-long happiness of an intensity now physiologically unimaginable can become the heritable norm of mental health. A sketch is offered of when, and why, this major evolutionary transition in the history of life is likely to occur. Possible objections, both practical and moral, are raised and then rebutted.

Contemporary images of opiate-addled junkies, and the lever-pressing frenzies of intra-cranially self-stimulating rats, are deceptive. Such stereotypes stigmatise, and falsely discredit, the only remedy for the world’s horrors and everyday discontents that is biologically realistic. For it is misleading to contrast social and intellectual development with perpetual happiness. There need be no such trade-off. Thus states of “dopamine-overdrive” can actually enhance exploratory and goal-directed activity. Hyper-dopaminergic states can also increase the range and diversity of actions an organism finds rewarding. Our descendants may live in a civilisation of serenely well-motivated “high-achievers”, animated by gradients of bliss. Their productivity may far eclipse our own.

Two hundred years ago, before the development of potent synthetic pain-killers or surgical anaesthetics, the notion that “physical” pain could be banished from most people’s lives would have seemed no less bizarre. Most of us in the developed world now take its daily absence for granted. The prospect that what we describe as “mental” pain, too, could one day be superseded is equally counter-intuitive. The technical option of its abolition turns its deliberate retention into an issue of political policy and ethical choice.

 

.

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By Shenonymous, May 14, 2010 at 8:23 pm Link to this comment

Why truedigger3, thank you for the compliments.  It thrills me
to see that you are badly stung and can only commence to speak of
me in such a grody derogatory manner.  Your attempt to defame me
is idiosyncratic and simply reflects your continued inability to make any
real contribution to any forum on which you try to take part.  Hence
you focus on me so that it appears you are doing something when in
fact you are only crapping in your pants.  My reasoning is sound by
the fact that you never say exactly what it is I have fabricated, what is
blatant and ridiculous.  What makes you think any paltry ‘advice’ you
may give has any merit whatsoever, that in your conceit you imagine
you have anything worthwhile to say, or that I care the tiniest trickle
what you think.  And if you think I fall flat on my face, it is of no
consequence since my face has been flat since the day I was born. 
Yup, flatter than a pancake.  Why it is so flat that I was included in the
best seller How to Get Things Really Flat.  It is often difficult to blow my
nose.  It is all right though since when I fall flat on my face I never
injure my nose.  You are a bag of wind that is unable say what I lie
about, or fabricate.  I have no worries about tenure or promotion since
I earned that long ago. How long has it been since you worked an
honest day’s work?  So glad you can laugh since that is all you have
and I would not deny you your last breath.  I suspect truedigger3
that you are one of those housebound perverts that needs to be
denigrated in public and just keep baiting me to serve your abnormal
need.  I don’t mind being used that way.  I’ll be happy to keep showing
how unhealthy you really are.

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By truedigger3, May 14, 2010 at 7:40 pm Link to this comment

Re:By Shenonymous, May 14 at 10:13 pm #


Shen.,

Thank you for the good laugh, but I am sorry to tell you that, lately, you had lost your touch and your lies and fabriacations are becoming so blatant and rediculous.
I gave you an advice a little while ago to stick to writing about philosophy and abstract logic because the instant you venture into history, current events coupled with simple commonsense, you immediately fall flat on your face.
You are becoming an embarrassment and a liability for the people you are hacking for, regardlless of the cheering and egging on coming from the “zionist contingent” here.
If you are doing this lying and fabrication for your career, the zionist department head, definitly, will have a second thought about giving your the promotion or tenure, you aiming at becaus of that blatant, dumb, laughable nonsense you are spewing.
Keep the laughs coming.

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By MarthaA, May 14, 2010 at 6:46 pm Link to this comment

ofersince72, May 14 at 8:21 am,

The Conservative Right-Wing isn’t crazy except like a fox.  Last time I checked the Conservative Republicans were the instigators of the Conservative Movement against Liberals, not the Democrats and when religion joins politics, they have to suffer the slings and arrows of politics, without deference.

I am a Liberals and Socialists, my preference is Democratic Socialist, hopefully we will some day legislate a Democratic Socialist Party;  but currently there are only two political parties.  Conservatives are on the Right, the Republican autocratic side of the spectrum, and Liberals are on the Left, the democratic side of the spectrum.  You say Democrats have never done anything for the citizenry, but all that has been done has been done by Democrats.  Conservatives have infiltrated the Left and there needs to be a strong reform and the removal of Conservatism out of the Left.

If it wasn’t for liberal Democrats, women wouldn’t have the right to vote, there would be no education, Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security to help the aging populace, and the populace would not have benefit of electricity and running water, these are liberal benefits; because NO Conservative/Moderate REPUBLICAN and NO Conservative/Moderate Democrat is for doing anything innovative for the populace’s benefit; Conservatives, whether Republican or Democrat, only protect big corporate businesses, industries, insurance and banksters. You pay for insurance, but if you have a totaled auto accident, the bank will get paid off if you have taken care of your car, but you will have to take out a new loan if you want another car, because even though you pay for the insurance, the insurance company protects only the banksters.  All little businesses are protected by the liberals on the Democratic Party side of the spectrum, ONLY.

You have been caught up in the propaganda against liberals that the Republicans started.  The [url=“http://www.truthout.org/100109A?n”]
Powell Memo tells about the beginning of the Conservatism Movement to wipe Liberals off the face of the earth,[/url] to make the word liberal thought of in such a way as to never ever be even mentioned by the populace, let alone know what it means; which is ironic because liberals ARE the populace.  The liberal populace have no wealth to conserve, only the wealthy conservatives have wealth to conserve away from the populace.  There will always be Liberal and Conservative; but in the USA the Conservative Movement is to dumb down the populace so that they have no idea they are the Liberals, so the elite will have easy picking of all the wealth and the populace will be pauperized and think it is OK.

The two parties which divide the state, the party of Conservatism and that of Innovation, are very old, and have disputed the possession of the world ever since it was made. This quarrel is the subject of civil history. The conservative party established the reverend hierarchies and monarchies of the most ancient world. The battle of patrician and plebeian, of parent state and colony, of old usage and accommodation to new facts, of the rich and the poor, reappears in all countries and times. The war rages not only in battle-fields, in national councils, and ecclesiastical synods, but agitates every man’s bosom with opposing advantages every hour. On rolls the old world meantime, and now one, now the other gets the day, and still the fight renews itself as if for the first time, under new names and hot personalities.

And your law, — is it just?—— Ralph Waldo Emerson

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By MarthaA, May 14, 2010 at 6:44 pm Link to this comment

ofersince72, May 14 at 8:21 am,

The Conservative Right-Wing isn’t crazy except like a fox.  Last time I checked the Conservative Republicans were the instigators of the Conservative Movement against Liberals, not the Democrats and when religion joins politics, they have to suffer the slings and arrows of politics, without deference.

I am a Liberals and Socialists, my preference is Democratic Socialist, hopefully we will some day legislate a Democratic Socialist Party;  but currently there are only two political parties.  Conservatives are on the Right, the Republican autocratic side of the spectrum, and Liberals are on the Left, the democratic side of the spectrum.  You say Democrats have never done anything for the citizenry, but all that has been done has been done by Democrats.  Conservatives have infiltrated the Left and there needs to be a strong reform and the removal of Conservatism out of the Left.

If it wasn’t for liberal Democrats, women wouldn’t have the right to vote, there would be no education, Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security to help the aging populace, and the populace would not have benefit of electricity and running water, these are liberal benefits; because NO Conservative/Moderate REPUBLICAN and NO Conservative/Moderate Democrat is for doing anything innovative for the populace’s benefit; Conservatives, whether Republican or Democrat, only protect big corporate businesses, industries, insurance and banksters. You pay for insurance, but if you have a totaled auto accident, the bank will get paid off if you have taken care of your car, but you will have to take out a new loan if you want another car, because even though you pay for the insurance, the insurance company protects only the banksters.  All little businesses are protected by the liberals on the Democratic Party side of the spectrum, ONLY.

You have been caught up in the propaganda against liberals that the Republicans started.  The [url=“http://www.truthout.org/100109A?n”]
Powell Memo tells about the beginning of the Conservatism Movement to wipe Liberals off the face of the earth,[/url] to make the word liberal thought of in such a way as to never ever be even mentioned by the populace, let alone know what it means; which is ironic because liberals ARE the populace.  The liberal populace have no wealth to conserve, only the wealthy conservatives have wealth to conserve away from the populace.  There will always be Liberal and Conservative; but in the USA the Conservative Movement is to dumb down the populace so that they have no idea they are the Liberals, so the elite will have easy picking of all the wealth and the populace will be pauperized and think it is OK.

The two parties which divide the state, the party of Conservatism and that of Innovation, are very old, and have disputed the possession of the world ever since it was made. This quarrel is the subject of civil history. The conservative party established the reverend hierarchies and monarchies of the most ancient world. The battle of patrician and plebeian, of parent state and colony, of old usage and accommodation to new facts, of the rich and the poor, reappears in all countries and times. The war rages not only in battle-fields, in national councils, and ecclesiastical synods, but agitates every man’s bosom with opposing advantages every hour. On rolls the old world meantime, and now one, now the other gets the day, and still the fight renews itself as if for the first time, under new names and hot personalities.

And your law, — is it just?—— Ralph Waldo Emerson

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By Shenonymous, May 14, 2010 at 6:13 pm Link to this comment

I never let anyone interfere with my fun.

I am not making “a case,” Anarcissie.  I was reporting body
counts from large warring parties in the name of gods as gathered
from the writings of historians.I invited rebuttal to this information
not to any argument I was making.  I suppose an argument could be
eked out that an astronomical number of human beings have been
killed throughout history in the name of religions and none in the name
of athesim.  Even though there have been many atheistic regimes, their
battle cry was never “Down With God,” or “Let’s Hear It For Godless
Socialism/Communism.” Of course darling Fred did declare god was
dead.  But that was not written on any state flag, nor did any soldier
shout it out as they killed the conquered least not any by orders from
a commanding officer.

It would be a bit much to cover again historians’ accounts.  Fluffy or
not.  No game here.  Evidence is provided by the names of historians I
listed. You should do your own homework.  But since you are a bit lazy
here are a few:

For Iraq dead count:  See
http://markhumphrys.com/iraq.dead.html

For Islam:
http://markhumphrys.com/islam.killings.html#historical

For the murder of Kurds:
http://www.yeziditruth.org/home

Research for number of people killed by Christians since Biblical times: 
(Did I read all of these?  No.  Especially the ones in German, I don’t
read German, but you are welcome to.)

K.Deschner, Abermals krähte der Hahn, Stuttgart 1962.

K.Deschner, Opus Diaboli, Reinbek 1987.

P.W.Edbury, Crusade and Settlement, Cardiff Univ. Press 1985.

S.Eidelberg, The Jews and the Crusaders, Madison 1977.

Hunter, M., Wootton, D., Atheism from the Reformation to the
Enlightenment, Oxford 1992.

Schröder-Kappus, E., Wagner, W., Michael Sattler. Ein Märtyrer in
Rottenburg, Tübingen, TVT Media 1992.

H.C.Lea, The Inquisition of the Middle Ages, New York 1961.

M.Margolis, A.Marx, A History of the Jewish People.

A.Manhattan, The Vatican’s Holocaust, Springfield 1986.

See also
V.Dedijer, The Yugoslav Auschwitz and the Vatican, Buffalo NY, 1992.

J.T.Noonan, Contraception: A History of its Treatment by the Catholic
Theologians and Canonists, Cambridge/Mass., 1992.

Newscast of S2 Aktuell, Germany, 10/10/96, 12:00.

D.Stannard, American Holocaust, Oxford University Press 1992.

German news magazine Der Spiegel, no.49, 12/2/1996.

F.Turner, Beyond Geography, New York 1980.

H.Wollschläger: Die bewaffneten Wallfahrten gen Jerusalem, Zürich
1973.

Estimates on the number of executed witches:
N.Cohn, Europe’s Inner Demons: An Enquiry Inspired by the Great Witch
?Hunt, Frogmore 1976, 253.

R.H.Robbins, The Encyclopedia of Witchcraft and Demonology, New ?
York 1959, 180.

J.B.Russell, Witchcraft in the Middle Ages, Ithaca/NY 1972, 39.

H.Zwetsloot, Friedrich Spee und die Hexenprozesse, Trier 1954, 56.

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By Night-Gaunt, May 14, 2010 at 5:37 pm Link to this comment

“The less you know the happier you are.”-Mandy (The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy)

Like Sir Francis Bacon I consider knowledge my province to take. But it isn’t exclusionary to me alone, anyone can do it if they have the impulse to do so. We all must work together because each one of us had a piece of it but only an amalgamation can we have the genius of civilization. But if we do it wrong then it will come out wrong. People first then how we work together. de Chardaine considered it the next step in evolution. Maybe, but if we don’t it won’t be pretty as the Gulf of Mexico is poisoned in a growing mega-disaster.

As I said several times, it is the human factor that is the core of it all. Now if we can somehow create an operable environment to foster the best in us and suppress and disempower the worst would be euthenics in practice. Better than eugenics by far.

Outragedtoo I like your comments. Please do more, you are a nice anodyne to the unsubstantiated smears of Truthdigger.

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By Anarcissie, May 14, 2010 at 4:44 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, May 14 at 8:25 pm:

’... I would accept any authentic rebuttal to this information. ...’

Before asking for a rebuttal I think you need to make a case, not just list a bunch of evidence-free assertions.

In the realm of body count figures, like any sort of measurement they need to be measured in the same way for each instance of them to be compared.

I haven’t studied Muslim body counts, but I have looked into some others, and I’ve noticed, as an example, that while Stalin and company are charged with starving the Ukrainians, the British government has not been similarly charged with starving the Irish although in both cases starvation derived pretty much from politics.  That is, I believe, because the British government consisted of English-speaking White gentlemen, whereas Stalin was one of those cruel Asiatics, so the two sets of rulers do not get measured with the same yardsticks.

Body counts seem terribly fluffy and fabulous anyway, but if you like to play the game don’t let me interfere with your fun.

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By Shenonymous, May 14, 2010 at 4:29 pm Link to this comment

I meant to say I was not drooling as I was making this post.  But
I am salivating for the next post I will be making, later though as
dinner and other non-electronic life calls for a few hours. But you
know I will return.

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By Shenonymous, May 14, 2010 at 4:25 pm Link to this comment

The top three largest examples that account for the number of
people who were executed in the name of God by Christians are
thought to be the Crusades of the Middle Ages, the Spanish
Inquisition, and the burning of witches. Scholars estimate that the
Crusades of the middle ages cost from 58,000 to 133,000 lives. The
most realistic figure for the Spanish Inquisition puts the total killed
from AD1480 to AD1808 at up to 31,912. Finally, records indicate that
the number of witches killed may be over 30,000. Some argue that
records don’t tell everything and suggest that maybe even 100,000
were killed. These three events, totaling over 264,000 killed, are
thought to be the largest atrocities perpetrated by one or another form
of Christendom.

A primary point should be made by asking the question, “Were these
activities consistent with what Jesus taught?” Most would admit that
such killing is inconsistent with his teachings as reported in the Bible.

The foregone about the number of people killed in the name of the
Christian God does not include the number killed by Islam in the name
of Allah.  For instance, it is estimated that 23 million Yezidis (Kurds)
have been killed by Moslems and their other self-proclaimed enemies
during the past 700 years.  According to Bill Warner, the director of the
Center for the Study of Political Islam, who probably has a bias but I
don’t expect to get any legitimate figures from the Muslim community,
Islam is the greatest killer of all time, worse than Christianity, fascism
or communism: “Jihad destroyed a Christian Middle East and a Christian
North Africa. Soon it was the fate of the Persian Zoroastrian and the
Hindu to be the victims of jihad. The history of political Islam is the
destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey and North
Africa. Half of Christianity was lost. Before Islam, North Africa was the
southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million
Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest. Half of the
glorious Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus killed.
The first Western Buddhists were the Greeks descended from Alexander
the Great’s army in what is now Afghanistan. Jihad destroyed all of
Buddhism along the silk route. About 10 million Buddhists died. The
conquest of Buddhism is the practical result of pacifism. Zoroastrianism
was eliminated from Persia. The Jews became permanent dhimmis
throughout Islam. In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists
have died over the last 1400 years of jihad. Approximately 270 million
nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the glory of political
Islam. These are the Tears of Jihad which are not taught in any school.”

I would accept any authentic rebuttal to this information.

This does not count the people killed in the name of Krishna by the
HIndus. 

The argument has been made that these number killed in the name of
religion, not counting the recent Iraq war, pale in comparison to how
many were killed say by the atheistic communist regimes.  The war in
Iraq estimates the number of people killed in the invasion and
occupation of Iraq vary widely and are highly disputed anywhere from
tens of thousands to a million or more.  For a comprehensive report,
see the Wikipedia report
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
While George Bush indicated he had a message from his god, we know
this was not a religious invasion, it was strictly for political power. 

My counter argument is that these murders were not committed in the
name of atheism, but for a political power base. 

Certainly this topic needs much more discussion and perhaps this
forum is the place to start that conversation.  We shall see.

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By Leefeller, May 14, 2010 at 3:23 pm Link to this comment

Love the picture of popey and all the relgiousophical fawning, bring a tear to me eye!

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By ofersince72, May 14, 2010 at 2:56 pm Link to this comment

“They Hate Us For Our Freedom”  G. Bush.


Holder is working on that as we speak.

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By elisalouisa, May 14, 2010 at 2:37 pm Link to this comment

Nemesis: To some love and sentimentality are of no use.  There are many types of love as you know. Love can interfere with order and logic(emotions can mess up your life, etc.). It
can cause chaotic times. Thus, those who put orderliness and"having a systematic way of going through life” might find love a pain. Most likely people that value order and control might be in the category of not wanting to give love or have love. Sex is enough. Should such people (neocons?) be part of
genetic reproduction, love might very well be a component that is not desirable in future generations. As each generation of genetic reproduction comes to be, there will be less feeling and more ability to commit heinous crimes. However, such people although mad, could very well have the impression that they are the sane ones. They might assume that those who fritter away their lives loving one another and the beauty of the world are the ones who are not “all there.”
The word “religion” must be defined. Also, what is meant by “feeling good.” Again, I cannot believe that man is the be all and end all in this universe. Nor can I believe that this earth and who we are “just happened.” Something else is in the works. Something we do not understand and may never understand. We look through
the glass darkly. At times, that mystery is close, as close as a distant star, but it is there.

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By Outragedtoo, May 14, 2010 at 2:12 pm Link to this comment

Thank you to Shernonymous, Leefeller, Anarcisse and OzarkMichael for your
comments.  I also liked comments by Nemesis2010.

OzarkMichael, I take back my raspberry.  You ask some legitimate questions.  I
don’t know how many people died in the Inquisition.  I’m not sure if it is even a
knowable figure, and could probably be only a wild guesstimate.  But it is
worth looking into.

Unfortunately, I don’t have time to respond adequately to your comments
today, but will try to get back to this next week.  I am under the gun at my day
job today and have a busy weekend ahead.

But this certainly is an interesting discussion.

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By ofersince72, May 14, 2010 at 2:09 pm Link to this comment

Obama and Gates to seek more advice from
  H E N R Y   K I S S E N G E R

WTF are you Nietzsche freaks doing voting for OBAMA ??

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By ofersince72, May 14, 2010 at 2:04 pm Link to this comment

Martha,

I would probably be better for your health if you
would let go of this tea bag and Fox news thing and
all what you are against on the right

and find out what you BELIEVE in. You will probably find
out that the Democrat Party doesn’t represent any of
these beliefs.

everyone knows Beck and friends are asses.
I doubt all tea baggers are though.

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By ofersince72, May 14, 2010 at 1:40 pm Link to this comment

Truth Diggers,

only line of defense, LESSER OF EVIL, doublespeak.

The tea baggers seem to have a much different sense of
honesty than Truth Digger “progressive”.
I plan on voting to re-elect Mr. Obama for the following.
fill in the blank
1. He can interpret Nietzsche
2. _______________
3. _______________
4. _______________
5. _______________

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By ofersince72, May 14, 2010 at 1:26 pm Link to this comment

Truth Diggers….

  make fun of Ralph Nader

  of course, we wouldn’t have had the fun of an
  oil gusher with Ralph in office, damn him, he so
  loves safety.  Probably would even have a responsible
  Sec of Interior instead of a corporate whore, damn him.

  They know Nietzsche though !!!!!!
  and can quote the bible toooooo

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By nemesis2010, May 14, 2010 at 12:17 pm Link to this comment

By MarthaA, May 14 at 12:33 am

”The Tea Baggers are populace genteel REPUBLICAN babbling zombies.  Populace genteel REPUBLICANS babble,  but will follow their leaders of the elite Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST GOP,  like Rush Limbaugh,  Dick Armey, Glenn Beck and the Mormons and Evangelical religions, Rupert Murdoch and his FOX News and News Corp Network, just like Rev. Sun Myung Moon’s Jerry Falwell zombies”

Thank you Martha! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Just 90 minutes after posting half the effing New Testament to demonstrate that true Christians are all about, love, blah, Jeebus, blah, Mary, blah, Joseph, blah, faith, blah, blah, blah… you’re here denigrating your brothers and sisters in Christ and ignoring almost everything that your Lawd Jeebus had to say! You’ve prove my point! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Core beliefs in religion don’t mean shit to any of you of the great deluded. Your core beliefs are whatever suits you at the moment.

Give me a pulpit and pews filled with Marthas and in 2 hours I’ll have them all out in the streets beheading their fellow man, drinking the dripping blood from their decapitated heads and praising Jeebus all the while they’re doing it!

With or without religion, evil people will do evil and good people will do good; but if you want good people to do evil, give them that Olde Tyme Religion!


@ doo-dah:

Do you see it doo-dah?

Morality and ethics are independent from faith. Parts of her core beliefs are to not judge others, to treat others as she would herself like to be treated and 90 minutes after pasting bible verses that she feels demonstrates what true Christianity is and is not… she’s out there judging every member of a political faction—most of whom consider themselves true Christians also—as zombies and dupes.

Religion is bullshit.

By Ancientoddler, May 14 at 6:03 am

”The incoherent babble of the mortal is like the
chattering of monkeys to the Ancientoddler.”

Mortals are monkeys and monkeys enjoy a fresh hamster or gerbil to break the monotony of fruits, nuts, and berries.

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By nemesis2010, May 14, 2010 at 12:12 pm Link to this comment

By doo-dah, May 13 at 10:22 pm

” nemesis2010 - your post is partly an offensive misrepresentation of Buddhism - which is not single dogma but has different variations. At the heart of all Buddhist ideas though lies compassion, understanding, and selflessness. Please look at Buddhism and try to understand what these core ideas mean - without taking a position on it beforehand and don’t write misrepresentative statements which are just intended to scare the reader. I accept that part of your post has truth, and that some so-called Buddhists may have a great deal to answer for - just as other people who might well be seen to be in certain category whether Christian, Atheist, socialist etc. However I think you should recognise that Buddhism has many great ideas and observations to offer the world, just as does many other philosophies - religious or otherwise. I personally feel I have benefited greatly from buddhist ideas, and from regular mediation, although with my limited grasp of these ideas.”

Thanks doo-dah. You came in right on schedule. I no sooner finished my reply to elisalouisa, than you come and prove me right. It’s almost too easy with the religious. The brand doesn’t matter, the behavior and mentality is exactly the same.

I’m going to fill in the blanks for you.

This is the classic religious cop-out argument: “Those others aren’t real Buddhists, we are true Buddhists.

One can replace the word “Buddhists” with Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc. etc.

Every religion has core beliefs. The Christians have core beliefs, there are an estimated 24-38 thousand different Christian denominations, sects, groups, etc.; so much for core beliefs. The same applies for Judaism, Islam, etc. Core beliefs don’t mean anything because religion is believing what you know isn’t true. People grab what is convenient for them and run with that ignoring all the rest.

Have you ever seen Republican Jeebus or Evangelical Christians decrying not having the Beatitudes hanging in public places? Hell no! Yet their very belief system is supposed to be about their Christ. Do you see Christians with insurance policies, retirement accounts, savings accounts, etc.? Yes we do, all the time. Yet their Lawd and Master is quoted as saying to take no concern for the morrow, look at the lily’s of the field. Every one of them knows that it’s all bullshit so guess what? It’s glossed over and forgotten. How about stoning people who work on Sunday? Have you seen any stonings in Israel or any other Jewish community for adultery? Nope. They’ll go to jail so that part of the core beliefs is thrown out with the bath water also. Do you see Europeans and Americans buying and owning slaves? No! But the core beliefs are still in the Bible, aren’t they? So is core beliefs like selling your sons and daughters into slavery and indentured servitude, but we don’t see believers doing it because you go to jail for doing that. Enlightenment, through human reasoning, brought us those new moral guides and laws, not religion. The Church was one of the last to give up her slaves.

Do you know what that means doo-dah? That means that morality and ethics are independent from faith. That means that all of our ethics and morals come from human beings, not revelation.

Religion is bullshit.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 14, 2010 at 12:09 pm Link to this comment

Warsong: Hello, were you raped by a muslim or something? Why do you hate muslims? Muslims haven’t done any thing against USA. 9-11 was done by The Republican Party and by the Israeli Mossad agents, not by muslims.  So i don’t understand why you hate muslims and why you bash muslims. I know Pakistanis and arabians and muslim people and they are real nice, a lot nicer and better than many evangelical americans.

Evangelical right-wing conservative americans are real assholes, real unfriendly, muslim people are a lot nicer, than evangelical protestant americans and a lot nicer than jews.  So i don’t understand why you don’t like muslims.


.

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By nemesis2010, May 14, 2010 at 12:08 pm Link to this comment

By elisalouisa, May 13 at 9:21 pm

”The hitch in Hitchens’ thinking Part I
By CHRIS HEDGES, KANSAS CITY STAR ?Added: Tuesday, 24 July 2007 at 11:00
PM”

Irritable, choleric, petulant, and droll.

This is the classic religious cop-out argument: “Those others aren’t real ______ (<- fill in the blank), we are true ______ (<- fill in the blank).

I’m always amused how the religious reference men from many decades and millennia back as if science has stood still twiddling its thumbs for the past 150 years of so.

Scientists are studying the brain and human psychology. They’ve made and continue to make huge advancements. There are even many theories about why we fall in love.

“Helen Fisher and others have shown that being in love is accompanied by unique brain states, including the presence of neurally active chemicals (in effect, natural drugs) that are highly specific and characteristic of the state. Evolutionary psychologists agree with her that the irrational coup de foudre could be a mechanism to ensure loyalty to one co-parent, lasting for long enough to rear a child together. From a Darwinian point of view it is, no doubt, important to choose a good partner, for all sorts of reasons. But, once having made a choice even a poor one and conceived a child, it is more important to stick with that one choice through thick and thin, at least until the child is weaned.” –Richard Dawkins, “The God Illusion”, Chapter 5: “The Roots of Religion”

Modern science is still in its infancy. Religion is made up and only requires some deluded fool to make up a bunch of bullshit that the stupefied like and a new tenet is born. Scientific theories on the other hand, have to pass the stringent constraints of the scientific method.

Another veiled point that Hedges is making in his article is that religion makes people feel good… well hell bells… so does whiskey!

I’d be willing to bet that there are more than a few “Christians” who, after reading Hedges’ articles, “After Religion Fizzles, We’re Stuck With Nietzsche” and “The Hitch in Hitchens’ Thinking,” are questioning his Christian credentials. Those Pulpit Pimps he mentioned have huge followings. If I were Hedges I’d be looking over my shoulder whenever I was in public.

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By Tennessee-Socialist, May 14, 2010 at 11:26 am Link to this comment

Hello all: Jesus Christ and the Apostles were one of the original founders of democratic egalitarian socialism, and Karl Marx, Lenin and Trotsky just turned Bible Christian utopian-socialism into political-socialism.  However the real ideology of socialism has only been applied by the first christians and in the short lived experiments of The Paris Commune, and in the short-lived Bolshevik-government.  Which was overthrown by evil satanic forces of Joseph Stalin.

It is also very motivating for christian-socialists to realize that there is hope for christian egalitarian marxist socialism in Latin America, with Fidel Castro, Raul Castro, Hugo Chavez, Evo Morales, Rafael Correa, Fernando Lugo, Pepe Mujica, Cristina Kirshner, Daniel Ortega and other socialist experiments in Latin America.

Many people in this world don’t like socialism because the logos and name of socialism has also been used by corrupt oligarchic governments in this world who are not authentic socialists like Zapatero of Spain, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Michelle Bachelet (A neoliberal, pro-NAFTA) and by many other Political Parties in this world who called themselves “Socialist Party” or “Social Democrat Party” but once they rise to power, they dont apply a real Christian Egalitarian Economic system where people would be the same under God, and where there wouldn’t be concentration of millions of dollars in a couple of fat-cats.

An example of this is Spain.  The governing political party of Spain is: “Socialist Workers Party of Spain (PSOE)” but what exists in Spain is an oligarchic-plutocratic system where a few live real well, and the majority are poors, just like here in USA

So what the world needs is a real socialist christian revolution, a revolution of the poors against the rich.  A slave-revolt of the oppressed against the oppressors.

We in USA need a real-socialist revolution against bankers and against the corporate capitalists along with a christian anti-immoralism revolution.  A revolution of christian-morality against selfishness, apathy, unfriendly behaviour, greed, materialism, money-addiction, adultery, alcoholism, binge-eating (food addiction), drug addiction, pessimism (That’s right pessimism is a trait of Satan)

I try to be a real christian-socialist. For example if i was US president i would trim my salary from 30,000 a month to 3000 a month, and i would trim the salaries of senators and all top high cupula leaders of the US government to about 3000 a month. Because USA needs an egalitarian christian paradigm, where the president is not better and more special than the floor-cleaners of The White House, in fact the floor cleaners and workers are more important than the president and senators.  Because the real labor of a christian-socialist, communist workers government should be to be servants of US citizens. And The White House would be destroyed and turned into a 3 bedroom/1bathroom 80,000 dollars regular house.

The US christian-communist president should drive a 6000 dollars Dodge Neon instead of a luxury limousine


.

.

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By OzarkMichael, May 14, 2010 at 10:15 am Link to this comment

Thank you Leefeller, i already feel myself sinking a bit in the quicksand. But i have some experience with you so i know it is better not to squirm.

In fact, let me pre-empt any squirming about the Inquisition. Let me prevent myself or any Christian from squirming with the following:

One common ‘squirm’ is to say that “the Inquisition had nothing to do with Christianity”. But as we evaluate Christianity in history we cannot select just the actions that we approve of. Therefore we face everything, and our evaluation is stronger for it.

And so Leefeller’s chastisement must be taken. Not merely for its jest and apparent confusion, but because it camoflages a deeper level of information and knowledge. I wonder why the camoflage is necessary at all, but since it is so well done and funny, I make no complaint. I accept the tweaking.

The Inquisition is one of the most frequently referenced events on Truthdig. Or perhaps it comes in second to the Crusades. Both are held up as evidence that Christianity is the bad actor in the world. Let us discuss it.

I await some detail on the Inquisition. I hope Outraged can post this weekend, but if not I am confident that there are others here who will take up the challenge.

Seeking the facts, finding information, examining details, and making an honest evaluation is like meat and drink to some people here. For example, Shenonymous drools when she sees a substantial discussion brewing.

I ask her to hold off for a day if she can. Outraged deserves a chance. Write soon if you can, Outraged.

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By truedigger3, May 14, 2010 at 9:53 am Link to this comment

offersince72,

Why you keep attacking truthdig?  Yes, some of the articles and their writers have questionable or blatant partisan and zionist agendas , but all in all, truthdig is providing a good source for information and opinions especially from the posters, without any censorship that I ecountered or heard about.
Truthdig is publishing your posts, although you keep attacking it!!!
Do conspiracies exist? Of course, yes.
Did the government lie and is lying? Of course, yes.
But some of these conspiracy claims are silly and laughable and not each claim is valid.
In my opinion, many of these conspiracy claims are initiated by agent provocateurs whose primary purporse is to derail any discussion when “it hits close to home”, and plant confusion and boredom and eventually contempt and apathy toward the progressives.

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By Growing Lotus, May 14, 2010 at 9:10 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If religion is near death, it is also near rebirth. 
You have important and brilliant insights on what is
missing and what is wrong, Mr. Hedges and I
appreciate you for that.  However, are you looking
for hope?  I don’t think you are, because I believe if you were,
you would find growing spiritual movements based in
total self-empowerment in partnership with divine
influence, and foundation being laid of a future
where all organizations, religious and not, hold
themselves to the highest standard of integrity. 
Whether that future is indeed created is up to us,
but I strongly urge you to take another look when it
seems the only options people are buying into are
positivism and nihilism.  In the most blessed
practice you point to, of self criticism, Mr. Hedges,
are you seeking out your blind-spots?  The most
important thing is to keep asking for others’ points
of view and when they answer, keep your mind flexible
to allow in new insights.

~Elizabeth

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By Leefeller, May 14, 2010 at 8:16 am Link to this comment

Hey Ozark Michal, when I called the pope to ask him your question about how many people were killed during the Inquisition, (mentioning your name did not help) he hung up on me. I got a hold of someone who knew what was going on, .... I finally reached the Vatican janitor and he told me, no people got killed during the Inquisition, just heretics!

What if the Inquisition was still happening, would they be burning corporations at the stake?  Everyone know the corporations have been declared people too, by the Surmising court?

No, that wouldn’t work because corporations as declared people seems much better than being an undeclared people ala just plain people. Seems only the undeclared people would be eligible to be Heretics.

One could say the Inquisition was biased and balanced just like Fox News, with much more entertainment value plus was preformed live! You know people paid for speical seats to watch the Inquisition,....... did they have popcorn back then?

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By ofersince72, May 14, 2010 at 7:58 am Link to this comment

TRUTH DIG

Just one of the many covers for the

M A S T E R S   O F   W A R

  TRUTH DIG

offering cover and side shows for
  THE CRIMINALS OF WALL STREET
(P.S. they are getting one of their own on the SCOTUS now)

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By ofersince72, May 14, 2010 at 7:45 am Link to this comment

All Truth Dig,  gets upset when some one says
Conspiracy…...Like our government has been so truthful
with us.

For a very long time, it is not a question what they lie
about…

What do they tell the Truth About ??????
They even are letting BP determine who and when
sees what is going on one mile down.
Why can’t the gov put a camera down there and let us
see ??????????? BP releases one little footage, controling
who and when sees the gusher.
  TRUTH DIG…..THE “FEEL GOOD”  SITE

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By ofersince72, May 14, 2010 at 7:38 am Link to this comment

Cris Hedges set Truth Dig up like some TEN PIIIINNNNSSS

Look at titles of his articles leading up to this.

He knew what he was doing two months ago !!!!!!!!!!

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By ofersince72, May 14, 2010 at 7:34 am Link to this comment

Here is a damn good example of Truth Dig left

The bible and Nietzsche quoters,,,  all upset at BP
for their recklessness in the Gulf

This kind of crap goes on all the time in places like
Nigeria, Mexico, all over the world
Plus fight wars, commit genocide for the crude.

Truth Dig leftist attitudes , as long as it is
NOT ON MY BEACH

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By ofersince72, May 14, 2010 at 7:15 am Link to this comment

The left on Truth Dig is damn sure a fraud

They cally “Digging” listening to Maddow, and Olberman
spew their corporate garbage, then try to interpret
Nietzsche.

By the way….new estamites. 56,000 to 100,000 BARRELS
a day, not gallons , but barrels.

They vote for murderers, then quote the bible

they vote for ethnic cleasing, then get upset about
Arizona. (by the way, what is going on in Arizona was
contrived by both parties for the mid-term elections
to keep fools like you voting Centrist, either for a
Dem or Pub.)

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By OzarkMichael, May 14, 2010 at 6:14 am Link to this comment

Outragedtoo said Also, to Ozark Michael — a big raspberry.  No, I didn’t cry myself to sleep. I got
a good laugh out of your comment.  But I wish you could offer some solid arguments rather than name calling and sarcasm.

The raspberry was a fair response, but your good laugh at what i wrote was an excellent response.

A person who can laugh like that deserves to have their wish fulfilled, and so i will offer some “solid arguments” to the best of my ability.


Outragedtoo said: These two scholars politely and diplomatically look at the historical record to show that Christianity may well be the biggest fraud ever inflicted on mankind.

If Christianity is a fraud then it would be the biggest fraud. I commend you for caring enough to read and try to figure it out. I too worked on the question, but my answer was different from yours. I worked on this 30 years ago, but i cannot imagine that there is more information about it today. Or is there?

Let us for a moment take stock of our situation. We are taking on something that is apparently beneath Chris Hedges. Hedges said:

It makes no difference to me if Jesus existed or not.

This is the same Chris Hedges who was sold to me by various Truthdiggers as someone who has a fine Christian view and from that high position he wants to correct people like me, the “fascists” of the American Christianity. But here he revealed himself: he has no intellectual curiousity or honesty. He couldnt care less. As usual, the ministrations of the Left are a fraud. I am glad I wasnt taken in.
 
Outragedtoo said: At any rate, the early church brutally persecuted all rivals, from the pagans to
the gnostics. Then, as we all know, soon began a reign of terror throughout much of Europe and her colonies for nearly 400 years with the Inquisition.

You can do better, and that with a little help you will do better. Let us take this Inquisition, which is certainly a bad thing, but let us face it squarely and honestly. Let us put it in focus. Over 400 long years, this Inquisition(which along with the Salem Witch trials has become Christianity’s major contribution to history according to the atheist view) is directly responsible for the death of how many people? There is some disagreement about it, but roughly how many? All over Europe and colonies? Lets also get the geography more precise than that.

Lets get these things out in the open. And then we must consider alternatives. Instead we will carefully consider what it all means.

As Anarcissie said in response to your statement’... You should not mourn the decline of religion, but rejoice in it.’:

That depends on what replaces it.

You’ve probably heard the proverb, “The first duty of a state is to prevent a worse one from arising.”  One might apply the same principle to religions.

Wise, Anarcissie. And concise as usual.

Let us do a little comparing with Christianity’s replacement. Time for some solid arguments.

So let it begin. Hit me with the truth about the Inquisition…

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By ofersince72, May 14, 2010 at 5:27 am Link to this comment

Reuters.

Obame seeks 80 billion to update new weapons stockpile
and 100 billion for new delivery system of nukes

The largest.

Homelessness
unemployment
Bla, blaa, blaa,
Nafta, blaa, blaa, blaa
The war is against us dummies

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By elisalouisa, May 14, 2010 at 5:16 am Link to this comment

I have also wondered, as one poster said, why this continual fascination with the German philosophers. There is an emptiness about the lives of many who accept Nietzsche’s philosophy. The mystery of life is not felt, the awe of life is missing. To some who follow Nietzsche, people do not really matter, at least not the majority. It is not God that is dead, it is they who are dead, deep inside. Yet, the mind continues at break neck speed and because the real thrust and flame of life has been put out they continue in this mad quest to control and also have weapons they think will make them safe. This ultimate weapon is genetic control of life.
One only need look at our good earth and see how this home provides us with food and the material necessary for shelter to find the answer as to if there is a higher source of life. The four seasons, the rebirth of life at Spring and the falling leaves in autumn are a treasure. This all just happened? Please. Rather man thinks so much of himself that he has reached the conclusion that all that is here is not enough. They conclude that certainly a creator as omnipotent as some say, would have done better. Man is put at the center of the stage. Whatever the -ism, religious, government or both, the light and dark shall always be embodied within. That is who we are, we have “created” the -ism.
There may be an ascendancy to darkness in time to come, perhaps brought on by genetic engineering where love and the finer qualities within shall be snuffed out. However, that snuffing will never be completely successful for that is our makeup and shall return at some future time. Perhaps our maker instilled within a smart chip that gave to future generations the qualities practiced in the present and also the ability to adjust to difficult environments by altering one’s body to withstand that harshness. Common term for this chip is evolution.
The missing link has never been found nor will it because there is no such thing. Some refuse to acknowledge this for admitting this would destroy all that embodies who they are.

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By ofersince72, May 14, 2010 at 4:34 am Link to this comment

America is a pile of ignorant, bullies
whether they are quoteing the bible or Nietzsche.

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By ofersince72, May 14, 2010 at 4:31 am Link to this comment

Religion fizzled the day it was born,
the Catholic Church rarely backed the radical nuns
and priests than volunteered their life in war zones
such as El Salvador.
The Nazis worshiped Nietzsche.
Both the bible and Nietzsche have been turned into
battle crys and still going on right today.
That is exactly why Hedges wrote this article, he has
been setting it up for at least a month and easily
proved the point he was making.
I don’t care if you keep supporting murder or if
all the quoters of Nietzsche do too.
We are already screwed because of these likes.

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By ofersince72, May 14, 2010 at 4:21 am Link to this comment

MarthaA
I know who Murdock is and all of the right wing crazies
and their mouth pieces, probably well before you did.
It is part of stage game.
I know all about GeneraL Electric and their news service
too, they trap you
Fox traps good people like the tea baggers,
this is all by design, it has been going on for years
and years to divide the vote, thus making sure a Centrist
always gets in power ,be it Dem or Pub.
The Democrats have never done anything for the citizenry.
They have been just as culpable in building up the MIC
as the Republicans. The MIC is a thief and murdering
scoundrels and that is just what you are supporting.
You are hiding behind the bible and others behind
Nietzsche, touting loftiness and holiness while you
support thieves , liers and murderers.

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By JDmysticDJ, May 14, 2010 at 3:01 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous  

I have nothing against technology. I’m quite appreciative of the contributions of people like Pasteur, Salk, Edison and others too numerous to mention. On the other hand I don’t have much respect for the legacy of Los Alamos, or a space program that serves nothing but mankind’s futile vanity. I’m aware that the space program has provided technological advances, but I think another more rational vehicle for providing technological advances could have been the recipient of space program funding. In fact, there are humanitarian concerns that I believe are more important than the benefits provided by the technological advances of the space program.

However that wasn’t the intent of my, apparently, Nietzsche like post- Actually I don’t have much knowledge of, or respect for the German philosophers, just like I have no respect for people who have faith in the authority of science when it comes to the human condition, and the meaning of life, which was the intent of my post. I have so little respect for these people, that I expected someone to authoritatively answer my question about the origin of the first bit of matter.

I respect Hedges for his recognition that we are in need of a moral compass or framework. I believe moral decadence is a weapon of mass destruction, and that we are the wielders of that weapon.

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By Ya ha ha way, May 13, 2010 at 11:26 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I simply do not believe any of the God stories I have heard so far.  That doesn’t
mean I refuse to be convinced by any new God stories.  Next.

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By Warsong, May 13, 2010 at 10:07 pm Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt,

Well, yes, I was sleeping. In order to find out what time it is at home, I have to add 3 hours to local time, then, if it’s afternoon, that means it’s AM at home, and, if it’s AM, I know it’s PM back home in Texas.

One thing that’s obvious is that few of you have ever been to Dubai, you’ve never took any classes in the Jebel Ali Free Trade Zone of Abu Dhabi, or, spent a night in Dubai, Sharja or Khalifa.

Just to dispell your doubts about whether Arabs can handle their own finances: Dubai is pretty much unchallenged as the Financial Center of the World, at this moment…they don’t need a lot of help balancing their Check Books.

They have successfully built a Fairyland in a tiny Desert Nation on the shores of the Crescent Sea, and, enticed virtually every International Corporation in the world to establish their World Headquarters on the main highway that sweeps through all of the Emirates. There is no shortage of financial genius in the “Pearl of the Crescent Sea.”

Wake up, people, they’ve stolen our future, and, this is Marker #5 of the historical 20 Markers of “The End of Golden Ages”: The Flight of Industry and Capital to foreign ports, where they build and export products back to their parent nation.

I am, as an ExPat, the living proof that Marker #7 is a done deal: The flight of Crafts, Skills, Trades, Artisans, Engineers, and, Builders of all kinds to foreign ports chasing jobs that vanished in their parent nation.

The marker in between those two, is, Marker #6: The importation of cheap labor in the form of Wage Slaves, or, Slaves in fact, while refusing to hire or even consider employing the citizens of the nation.

Argh, Abdul Kareem is shoving Cookies at me while I try to write…he knows I’ve already missed Breakfast, and, is pretty sure I’ll work through lunch.

Gotta go!

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By MarthaA, May 13, 2010 at 9:35 pm Link to this comment

air-purifier, May 14 at 1:05 am,

You have listed socialism in with religions, do you think socialism is a religion?

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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, May 13, 2010 at 9:30 pm Link to this comment

air-purifier, May 14 at 1:05 am,

Do you think socialism is a religion?

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By MarthaA, May 13, 2010 at 9:22 pm Link to this comment

ofersince72, May 13 at 11:39 pm,

Not the same.  It takes time.  It took over 40 years for the Conservative Republicans to hoodwink the populace, and it will probably take that same amount of time to overcome the REPUBLICAN Conservative hoodwink.

As for the Tea Baggers, the Tea Baggers are populace genteel REPUBLICAN babbling zombies.  Populace genteel REPUBLICANS babble,  but will follow their leaders of the elite Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST GOP,  like Rush Limbaugh,  Dick Armey, Glenn Beck and the Mormons and Evangelical religions, Rupert Murdoch and his FOX News and News Corp Network, just like Rev. Sun Myung Moon’s Jerry Falwell zombies.  Read the following link:

http://www.alternet.org/story/146770/rise_&_fall_of_the_washington_times:_the_ex-nazis,_cocaine_smugglers_&_cultists_who_created_a_right-wing_propaganda_organ,_and_brought_it_crashing_down?page=entire

Rupert Murdoch’s became a citizen and his bunch is doing the same exact thing.

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By Leefeller, May 13, 2010 at 9:08 pm Link to this comment

Warsong, I suppose it is like someone saying a Norwegian is a Swede or like both the Norwegians and the Swedes saying something stinks in Denmark! To anyone else who is not Norwegian, Swedish or Danish all three seem pretty much the same.

The reason I asked about Armenians, is I worked for an Armenian and he was a great boss, so I have almost known an Arab?

Offersince73, What do you mean by we Offersince?

As for me discriminating who the dumb ass posters are, why would that be necessary, when it seems self evident? Dumb ass posters is your label choosing, not mine!
I find using dumb ass both insulting and degrading, and normally would not use dumb ass, for I have a few other preferred words in my larder. Utilizing such words only when necessary, like during a food fight, and as a last resort when my ego may demand it when discourtesy is needed.

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By ofersince72, May 13, 2010 at 8:55 pm Link to this comment

We are the world’s dumbest downed nation that is also
one of the least spiritual with the world’s largest and
deadlyest arsenal.  A disasterous combination that has
proved this time and time again.

Just look at the nonsence the MSMs spew every day, every
one of them little biddy sound bites by actors, not
news persons.  They spread no news, and false info
about everything !!!!!!!!
Like General Electric is better than Murdock.

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By Sodium-Na, May 13, 2010 at 8:34 pm Link to this comment

Re: Shenonymous,March 13 at 10:50 am.

Shenonymous wrote the following pareagraph in her above Re(Of course,she meant me without mentioning my name):

Quote
======

Instead of trying to harpoon me(which I know a favorite sport) with ‘superior’ knowledge of the Middle East,which is stupid and cowardly practice at any rate,and since I have already admitted I am ignorant and seeking to learn about the Middle East,its people,its involvment ,then it is barbarous to pretend I omniscient in such matters and therefore out to know presciently everything. It is the usual brutal and maliciousness that permeates particular minds on these threads. I have admitted I am not a goddess but you might continue to think so. As anardoit hit and retreat commenter on Td,you might learn some manners nontheless.

unquote
========

Shenonymous,

I consider the above rant of yours garbage and I will not dignify it by a response from me.

Believe it or not,my intent here and in my earlier two last posts,(Sodium-Na,May 13 at 9:00 am,and Sodium-Na 12 at 10:51 pm),is and was to help you and Truthdigger3 as much as my time allowed. Certainly,I have questioned the reliability of the website you collected the information from,and that is within my constitutional right as spell out in the First Amendment.

Therefore I have to ask you to go back to my two last posts I have specified in the foregoing and read them again with care and see if I have tried to harpoon you in the slightest way possible.There was not a single name-calling in my both posts. If I hit a nerve,I could not see where.

The content of your above quoted comments did not make sense to me.

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By MarthaA, May 13, 2010 at 8:33 pm Link to this comment

The Tea Baggers are populace genteel REPUBLICAN babbling zombies.  Populace genteel REPUBLICANS babble,  but will follow their leaders of the elite Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST GOP,  like Rush Limbaugh,  Dick Armey, Glenn Beck and the Mormons and Evangelical religions, Rupert Murdoch and his FOX News and News Corp Network, just like Rev. Sun Myung Moon’s Jerry Falwell zombies

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By ofersince72, May 13, 2010 at 7:43 pm Link to this comment

And that is exactly the point that Cris Hedges
was making !!!!!

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By ofersince72, May 13, 2010 at 7:41 pm Link to this comment

It is the same ones that do that ....
that call the tea baggers hippocrits !!!!!!!!!

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By ofersince72, May 13, 2010 at 7:39 pm Link to this comment

You may quote that bible all you want while go pull the
lever to vote the same murderers back into office !!!!

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By ofersince72, May 13, 2010 at 7:33 pm Link to this comment

Eric Holder…..one of the writers of Patriot Acts
          and, at the time, said they didn’t go
          far enough…He is now Attorney General
          and is further strengthening the Patriot
          Acts’
Goldman-Sachs…responsible for financial collapse that
          had much criminal activity involved that
          is not being prosecuted other than in a
          civil suit,  now has a former employee
          that was on their payroll getting ready
          to sit on the Supreme Court.
GOD IS LOVE.. P.S.  The Death Toll In Afhganistan is
          rising, costing the American Public
          at LEAST 15 billion dollars a month.
          Mainstream media falling lock and step
          with the rediculous NYC terrorist scare.
GOD IS LOVE
Once again,  Cris Hedges,  you threw a strike !!!!!

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By MarthaA, May 13, 2010 at 7:04 pm Link to this comment

The words religion and religious together are used 6 times in the entire Old and New Testaments of the Holy Bible, of which none are in the Old Testament; all of the 6 times are in the New Testament.

It is not religion or the religious that God is looking for in his creation, but a friendship.  Jesus laid down his life for his friends, not religion.  Here are all of the times either religion or religious are used:


Acts 26:5 - Paul, as a prisoner, speaking to King Agrippa, “Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.”

[Jesus expects his friends to rise above the religion of a Pharisee.]

Galatians 1:13 & 14 - Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)  “For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:  And profited in the Jews’ religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.”

James 1: 26 & 27 - James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the 12 tribes which are scattered abroad, “If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain.  Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.”

Acts 13:43 - “Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas:  who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.”


This is all there is about religion and religous in both books of the Holy Bible, so it would seem one would get the clue that religion is not what God is looking for.  Jesus did not give his mortal life for religion or anything religious.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.  He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.  And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.  For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.  But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.” ——Jesus’ words John 3:16-21


“If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.  And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:  That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.” ——Jesus’ words before Crucifixion John 3:12-15

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By doo-dah, May 13, 2010 at 6:22 pm Link to this comment

nemesis2010 - your post is partly an offensive misrepresentation of Buddhism - which is not single dogma but has different variations. At the heart of all Buddhist ideas though lies compassion, understanding, and selflessness. Please look at Buddhism and try to understand what these core ideas mean - without taking a position on it beforehand and don’t write misrepresentative statements which are just intended to scare the reader. I accept that part of your post has truth, and that some so-called Buddhists may have a great deal to answer for - just as other people who might well be seen to be in certain category whether Christian, Atheist, socialist etc. However I think you should recognise that Buddhism has many great ideas and observations to offer the world, just as does many other philosophies - religious or otherwise. I personally feel I have benefited greatly from buddhist ideas, and from regular mediation, although with my limited grasp of these ideas.

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By ofersince72, May 13, 2010 at 6:06 pm Link to this comment

I have been wondering for the last two weeks just what
name Hedges was going to through out there.

He has set everyone up like like some ten pins for the
last month.

I figured it might be Nietzsche name that he pulled out of
his hat.  The Rednecks ran on to the football field like
it was home coming.
You threw a strike Cris Hedges.!!!

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By ofersince72, May 13, 2010 at 5:59 pm Link to this comment

Hey Leefeller,,  we all are stupid Redneck bullies,

You are the one who is going to discriminate just who

the Dumbass posters are ????

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