Top Leaderboard, Site wide
November 27, 2014
Truthdig: Drilling Beneath the Headlines
Sign up for Truthdig's Email NewsletterLike Truthdig on FacebookFollow Truthdig on TwitterSubscribe to Truthdig's RSS Feed

Get Truthdig's headlines in your inbox!


Weather Extremes Will Be the Norm As World Warms




Joan of Arc


Truthdig Bazaar more items

 
Report

After Religion Fizzles, We’re Stuck With Nietzsche

Email this item Email    Print this item Print    Share this item... Share

Posted on May 9, 2010
AP / Olivier Laban-Mattei

By Chris Hedges

It is hard to muster much sympathy over the implosion of the Catholic Church, traditional Protestant denominations or Jewish synagogues. These institutions were passive as the Christian right, which peddles magical thinking and a Jesus-as-warrior philosophy, hijacked the language and iconography of traditional Christianity. They have busied themselves with the boutique activism of the culture wars. They have failed to unequivocally denounce unfettered capitalism, globalization and pre-emptive war. The obsession with personal piety and “How-is-it-with-me?” spirituality that permeates most congregations is narcissism. And while the Protestant church and reformed Judaism have not replicated the perfidiousness of the Catholic bishops, who protect child-molesting priests, they have little to say in an age when we desperately need moral guidance.

I grew up in the church and graduated from a seminary. It is an institution whose cruelty, inflicted on my father, who was a Presbyterian minister, I know intimately. I do not attend church. The cloying, feel-your-pain language of the average clergy member makes me run for the door. The debates in most churches—whether revolving around homosexuality or biblical interpretation—are a waste of energy. I have no desire to belong to any organization, religious or otherwise, which discriminates, nor will I spend my time trying to convince someone that the raw anti-Semitism in the Gospel of John might not be the word of God. It makes no difference to me if Jesus existed or not. There is no historical evidence that he did. Fairy tales about heaven and hell, angels, miracles, saints, divine intervention and God’s beneficent plan for us are repeatedly mocked in the brutality and indiscriminate killing in war zones, where I witnessed children murdered for sport and psychopathic gangsters elevated to demigods. The Bible works only as metaphor.

The institutional church, when it does speak, mutters pious non-statements that mean nothing. “Given the complexity of factors involved, many of which understandably remain confidential, it is altogether appropriate for members of our armed forces to presume the integrity of our leadership and its judgments, and therefore to carry out their military duties in good conscience,” Archbishop Edwin F. O’Brien, head of the Archdiocese for the Military Services, wrote about the Iraq war. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, on the eve of the invasion, told believers that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein was a menace, and that reasonable people could disagree about the necessity of using force to overthrow him. It assured those who supported the war that God would not object. B’nai B’rith supported a congressional resolution to authorize the 2003 attack on Iraq. The Union of American Hebrew Congregations, which represents Reform Judaism, agreed it would back unilateral action, as long as Congress approved and the president sought support from other nations. The National Council of Churches, which represents 36 different faith groups, in a typical bromide, urged President George W. Bush to “do all possible” to avoid war with Iraq and to stop “demonizing adversaries or enemies” with good-versus-evil rhetoric, but, like the other liberal religious institutions, did not condemn the war. 

A Gallup poll in 2006 found that “the more frequently an American attends church, the less likely he or she is to say the war was a mistake.” Given that Jesus was a pacifist, and given that all of us who graduated from seminary rigorously studied Just War doctrine, which was flagrantly violated by the invasion of Iraq, this is a rather startling statistic.

But I cannot rejoice in the collapse of these institutions. We are not going to be saved by faith in reason, science and technology, which the dead zone of oil forming in the Gulf of Mexico and our production of costly and redundant weapons systems illustrate. Frederick Nietzsche’s Übermensch, or “Superman”—our secular religion—is as fantasy-driven as religious magical thinking.

Advertisement

Square, Site wide
There remain, in spite of the leaders of these institutions, religiously motivated people toiling in the inner city and the slums of the developing world. They remain true to the core religious and moral values ignored by these institutions. The essential teachings of the monotheistic traditions are now lost in the muck of church dogma, hollow creeds and the banal bureaucracy of institutional religion. These teachings helped create the concept of the individual. The belief that we can exist as distinct beings from the tribe, or the crowd, and that we are called on as individuals to make moral decisions that can defy the clamor of the nation is one of the gifts of religious thought. This call for individual responsibility is coupled with the constant injunctions in Islam, Judaism and Christianity for compassion, especially for the weak, the impoverished, the sick and the outcast.

We are rapidly losing the capacity for the moral life. We reject the anxiety of individual responsibility that laid the foundations for the open society. We are enjoined, after all, to love our neighbor, not our tribe. This empowerment of individual conscience was the starting point of the great ethical systems of all civilizations. Those who championed this radical individualism, from Confucius to Socrates to Jesus, fostered not obedience and conformity, but dissent and self-criticism. They initiated the separation of individual responsibility from the demands of the state. They taught that culture and society were not the sole prerogative of the powerful, that freedom and indeed the religious and moral life required us to often oppose and challenge those in authority, even at great personal cost. Immanuel Kant built his ethics upon this radical individualism. And Kant’s injunction to “always recognize that human individuals are ends, and do not use them as mere means” runs in a direct line from the Socratic ideal and the Christian Gospels.


New and Improved Comments

If you have trouble leaving a comment, review this help page. Still having problems? Let us know. If you find yourself moderated, take a moment to review our comment policy.

Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 19, 2010 at 5:24 am Link to this comment

She is less compliant and less submissive.  There is no need to
recreate the entire Feb. forum here. It is such a comedy.  If anyone
is interested, and I’d be surprised if anyone were, for who the hell
would care what that interaction was, but if for some perverted
insane reason it is desired, a search of TD could easily be made. 
The fact that it has been recalled here is like a Jon Stewart comedy
half hour.  I laughed my head off.  What kind of an indictment was
that?
  The attempt with such zeal to impugn my character is paltry
to say the least.  To what purpose was this done one might ask, if even
that?  To puff up one’s imaginary self?  If anything it shows my
character has grown stronger and has gotten better at fielding these
kinds of attacks.  My retorts are sharper and more directly hits the
targets right in their soft spot, their heads.  Should I be faulted for
that?

If the fact that I’ve become better at fending off and dispersing attacks
is because I’ve learned better how to deal with the sniper misogynists
on these forums.  A couple years of training is good for the soul which
goes to show that old dogs (Pitchy bitches) can learn new tricks as I’m
in the mature range of life.  A review of any forum on all of Truthdig
would show that I never initiate an attack at anyone, not ever, never. 
However, I am the best defender there is!  That and the fact that I do
not kiss ring irks the hell out of these thugs.  Shall I say how much
that tickles me?  Naw, I’ll let it go.

The fact that I can better expose the small mindedness of flamers and
bashers is from all the inhouse training I’ve seen slung at others and
have had to defend against for myself. 

It is unfathomable to me that these men have the unmitigated gall to
sling the most vile names and character assassinations at another and
expect submissiveness.  Well that is not me.  And Mr. Chalmers and I
did both retreat as reading the rest of that forum would show, once the
passion of the moment had subsided. 

I made another statement recently that I would not and never will take
it quietly and will lay bare the feeble minds that actually occupy those
who dare to violate my person rather than show their ability to argue
against my ideas.  That is a promise and my ability to carry out that
promise is now demonstrated in diamonds not pearls.  It would only
seem to others, I would think, that I take the high road whilst the men
who entertain themselves that they can get away with sniper attacks
actually grovel in their own crap.  With every attack they make on these
forums they literally expose themselves but that does not mean a
counter attack is to be summarily dispensed with.  5 Nups for that! Not
this lady!

I would hope that this ends the pitiful wasting of TD forum space.  If it
doesn’t, well…in those immemorable words of Arnold…”I’ll be back.”

Leefeller your confession and promise of a rash for
nonsubmission was a another demonstration of your unique brilliance. 
I have to ask if you travel the world on a flying carpet?  Your Most Holy
Toothlessness, please take my eulogy as a curtsy with head bowed, for
I do not want a rash.  I was so glad to see the Great Unyun taken back
out of the closet the other day.  I shall now be able go to the temple of
the Great Unyun once again, even if for a little while. Or is it a mosque? 
I forget.

Hafta go now, but know that The Great Unyun will be in my thoughts.

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 19, 2010 at 3:36 am Link to this comment

Being full of myself, I decided to make it known to all
with announcements and funfair and warned others not to
interfere for it would be to their determent and
behooves, for my toothlessness has little to do with my
bite.  So I presented my name and address and told
everyone how great I was and that I had accomplished
many great feats in my life time, like being the first
person to have there toe nails trimmed while getting a
tattoo proclaiming my exceptional greatness as I looked
uppon my beauty in the mirror.  When I enter a room
people stop talking for that is what happens in such
greatness as mine. My narcissism has been placed in the
Pompous assess book of records.

Since I have traveled the world expensively and read
many books in fact so many I have forgotten most of
them.  Such extensive knowledge as I have exceeds even
my huge ego, which has trouble keeping up!  Being so
great, I find it hard to spend all my time looking down
on others for it is a full time job and after all, my
being three feet short makes it is so.  I coined the
great phrase, “Stature and greatness means little unless
one is Michael Jordon!

Anyone who does not believe as I believe, must receive
my rash, for my rash is like hives for the ignorant a
poison oak for the disenchanted and can be most
unpleasant, even more so than my personality.  Greatness
such as mine requires a capability to manipulate
unthinking people by becoming a father figure, but not
like a Catholic father, for I am more like the great
Jebebis or even Little Me,  for believing is only to
convince others of my truth and is most easy, for only I
know the truth and the truth only knows me!

Report this

By Sodium-Na, May 19, 2010 at 2:39 am Link to this comment

The following post is from Shenonymous addressed to me and it is going to be the last post on the relationships between Shenonymous,Douglas Chalmers and myself(Nabih Ammari):

Quote
======

By Shenonymous,February 14,at 2:08 am.

You are truly a generous man,and I admire you. I have a sanguine personality and often resort lex talionis if feel violated. Mr. Chalmers has repeatedly insulted me not only here but on other forums with the most vile language and I have responded quite ruthlessly myself,but only in defense of his truly useless and tasteless expressions,that,yes,seem to have electronic emphaseyma. I am sorry but I feel also offended you,even though you have not said so,by participating in this petty debate. As proof of my self-reproach for my part in this miserable squabble,I shall stop and desist and thank you for your sobering comments. I sometimes let my hot-blooded nature take comand and interfere with the more rational and mentally enriching encountersI much more appreciate. I shall not address any further comments either here or anywhere else to Mr. Chalmers,whether or not he continues to make references to my person in any way. He has just attained noneentity status in my sphere of interest.

Unquote
=======

Based on the content of the above post,Shenon of the 2008 is different from Shanon of the 2010. In the former she was more reflective and conscietious of herself and behavior. In the latter,she is less so and more combative. No need for the latter.

Note for Truedigger3: That is it,my friend. I thought you were injustly and maliciously attacked and somebody must come to your side. It has happened I followed closely what was going on from A to Z. I could not,not to take a stand. The ratio was 4:1. Too many against one. What has impressed me most was the fact that you really held your ground alone valiantly,but you needed the help because no one alone could stand that way for too long. It had to be me. I was convinced no one else could it.

Good bye and good luck,Truedigger3. And Take it easy.

Report this

By Warsong, May 19, 2010 at 1:48 am Link to this comment

The previous Post seems to have disappeared, but, here is the follow-up:

The protest poem I wrote Mr. Clinton is called, “No One to Lead,” and, it got me a carping letter from the Clinton Justice Department, warning that I should moderate my language. It seemed clear to them that I was “aiming my objectives at the President.” This mimics the wording in the last half of the first line of a Nostradamus prophecy, using the phrase, “...le Roi Eslue,” or, the Elected King: “The translator will be accused of aiming his objectives at the elected King.”

It’s a long Poem, and, it may not format right, here, but (see below) Mr. Clinton was arguing with Congress over whether to supply the Bosnians with Arms. He demamded that we do this, then, when Congress agreed, he recoiled in horror, “We can’t do that, they’l kill Serbs” (who were killing them). And, I wrote and faxed the poem below:
______________________________________

“No One to Lead”

In a real World, where Dragons live and hate,
Decisions need be made: Will the Eagle fly, or, whine and wait?
Those who wait, heed Polls, th’ Great trust Fate.
‘Tis truly much too late, there be Dragons at th’ Gate.

In history, so hoary, vast and filled with deeds,
Never a man called ‘Great,’ failed in time those in need.
Leaders can’t follow, nor followers lead…indeed.
And, Congress can’t follow, if there’s no one to lead

Dragons breath, horror and death,
in the abstract, Congress & Diplomats simply abhor.
But, this is more! “One mustn’t upset
the poor slavering Dear,” they shriek.

“After all…only people are dying,
and you can see he’s trying, won’t do it anymore.
Some time he must have, a year
...or two…or three.  Go easy on the leash.”

‘Tis th’ reason Congress and Diplomats
have killed as many as Dragons.
“What? Th’ people are fighting?
Defending their Wives? Their Children?

Oh dear, we can’t have this! It’s take away
their guns we must, give them Body Bags and Wagons.
Tombstones and Gravediggers they’ll need in plenty,
but Guns? Ammunition? Let’s not be children!”

Could it be a thing of Pride, to say,
“I waited longer than a Dragon can eat.
A million souls he fried, committed genocide,
then went to sleep! We won! We still wait!”

Decisions need be made: Will the Eagle fly?
Or, jaw and bleet? Wizards and Dragons, we need,
to fight a Dragon! A “Spectre,” the Jolly Green Giant,
a magic Dragon, we need: before it’s too late!!
____________________________________

There can be no boundaries on the Human Mind, except for walls we build ourselves with a phrase, “...that’s impossible”.

Report this

By Warsong, May 19, 2010 at 1:35 am Link to this comment

Well, I’ve made a decision to ‘go away.’ I see no point in monitoring a site where the predominant belief is a non-belief that places boundaries on the extent of Human potential, the Human mind.

Staggering to bed after a full night of writing a protest poem and faxing it to Mr. Clinton, during the height of the Balkan War, I lay down, closed my Eyes, and, found myself looking through Eyes that were partially obscured by Toothpick holding the lids open (Shenonymous’ remark about toothpicks pulled this memory up, from somewhere deep within, where I had very deliberately buried it).

I found myself looking at a man in a Blue Uniform, who punched me in the face, then reached to his right, and, drug a little blonde girl into his lap, pummeling and biting her in the process. I lunged forward, realized I was tied to a chair, and, someone grabbed me by the hair from behind, snatching my head back and wrapping an arm around my throat.

There was no sound, because I was apparently not linked into the Audio system of the brain. The little girls puffy, bruised, swollen eyes seemed almost cobalt blue, and, I could see her lips moving. She seemed to be repeating two phrases, three words, then four, as her head snapped back and forth from blows. The only thing I could make out, reading her lips, is that the last word of the first phrase seemed to be the first word in the second.

Watching closely, with my Eyes drying out, I had just figured out that this one word was “Papa,” when a hand came around from the left, with a knife in it. And, I thought, “Kabar,” as he slowly slit her throat from ear to ear. I snapped back to my body in horror as blood pumped and splattered into the eyes and all over whoever was sitting in that chair, with the knowledge that the two phrases she kept repeating, desperately, were, “Help me Papa…Papa, please help me.” And, exploded screaming out of my bed.

See next post…

Report this

By Sodium-Na, May 19, 2010 at 1:01 am Link to this comment

The following post was written by me,trying to persuade Douglas Chalmers to take easy with
Shenonymous:

Quote
======

By Nabih Ammari,February 14,2008 at 12:44 am.
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: World population February 13

Douglas Chalmers,

You usually post intelligently written posts. That is why I look for them and make a point in reading them and sometimes I do learn from them,and hence I do thank you for that privilege.However,allow an old man to tell you that you do goof once in a while,especially when you allow your passion overwhelms your remarkable intelligence and broad knowledge which I highly admire.This bring(me)to call your attention that it was very obvious to me that you were waiting for Shenon to commit an error,however small,to corner her for reason or reasons known only to Douglas Chalmers. Sure,there is a huge difference between four billions and six billions.Of course,your six billions are the correct statistics.But the statistics,whether or not were erroneous or correct,have seemed to me secodary compared to what Shenonymous was trying to convey to the readers of her post as how to achieve a peaceful world.In fact,it was very secondary.

I do hope that you will take the above constructive and very mild criticism in stride,from a person who has no ill feeling towards you or towards any other reasonable human being.And please cut down on your sarcasm and eliminate the “hhah” and “ahh”. Without them,your posts read much much better. Will you do so,my dear Douglas Chalmers?,and let me enjoy reading your posts even more. Thank you.

Please take it easy and have a nice day or a nice evening,depending in your time-zone.
Sincerely,
Nabih ammari
An Independent in Ohio.

Unquote
=======


After reading the above post of mine,Douglas Chalmers had IMPLODED and fired to me the following the following post:

Quote
======

By Douglas Chalmer February 14,2008 at 2:04 am

By Nabih Ammari,February 13: “and please cut down on your sarcasm and eliminate the “hhah” and “ahh”....”

Without you,reading and postinghere would be much better,Nabih Ammari. You used to make intelligently written posts but lately,you have been sucked into Shenonymous’slimy game that she plays with hapless males.

I do not take dictation and don’t say you weren’t already warned,my friend. Better just go chew on your Valentine’s rose and forget about the rest,uhh….....

Unquote
=======

I lost Douglas. It was my fault because I knew how he reacted with other bloggers when he did not like something about the blogger. But I thought he would not react with me in that angry manner.I never thought he would be that touchy with me.I was wrong.

I addressed the following post in response:

Quote
======

By Nabih Ammari
Unregistered commenter)

To:Douglas Chalmers

Douglas,

I can refrain from posting here,if that what you really wanted.No problem whatsoever.I need not post anywhere.But I must tell you that I will continue making a point in reading your posts because I like to read them.Whether you are right or wrong that is beside what I am trying to convey,here,to you.

If you thought I took Shenon’s side,I should tell you that were wrong.I took the side of common sense.No side was taken-at least,that what had appeared to me.

Inspite of your obvious ooutrage,which I know that deep deep in your heart of heart you really have not meant to be so.I still think that you are of a hell of good man.And if I have not believe so and if do not hold you in high esteem as I do intelligent others,I would not have bothered addressing this post to you.It is easy,Douglas,to walk away from all of this which I really need not in my old age.
Sincerely,
Nabih Ammari

Unquote
=======

Yes,indeed,in trying to help one human being(Shenon) whome I really did not know well at that time,I lost another human being I had known much more longer.That is life.Think!!

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 19, 2010 at 12:00 am Link to this comment

ThomasG – I am trying to see what you see.  Trying to
understand what is the force of your grievance.  I have only your
words to go on.  I look for that 70% majority populace constituency,
the peasantry as you call them; “not a genteel peasant living on
credit pretending to be middle class on someone else’s capital that is
being rented for interest, but a cottager populace peasant.”
it is to
mythologize this part of society.  It does not describe them close
enough. 

I do not believe in huge instant waves of change, tsunamis of change. 
That is change driven by emotion and most often by blind emotion
although those in the heat of effecting the change do not see that they
are more emotional than rational.  Radical change takes its victims and
for me human life has primacy over any ideology and discontent with
the economic operation of any state.  I look for this abstruse mythic
majority populace constituency and really cannot see them.  Where are
they?  Exactly where are they? Who exactly are they?  Calling them
names like the peasantry is euphemizing them.  Let us limit the scope
to America only since I do not have enough knowledge to understand
what the European majority populace constituency could possibly be. 
They and our people who are characterized as a constituency as you do
are a faceless mass that in its amorphousity become simply a tool of
dialogue.  I hear reports about Europe and the world yet I do not
understand because the are a collection of sovereign states that want
to retain their unique ethnicity.  It is the momentum of the individual
emerging showing even at that level.  Self identity is a very important
and powerful impulse.

I realize this country has experienced a colossal financial catastrophe. 
I listen to the news and watch some tv news programs.  I also watch
how it is being dealt with.  Let us imagine that I am part of the 70%
majority, for if I understand your metaphor, I really am.  Teachers do
not make much money.  Ordinary people do not really understand what
goes on in the world of finance.  If it were up to me I’d get rid of the
entire stock market construction. It is fabricated wealth.  The only ones
really working are those who have jobs, professions, and occupations
that don’t work on Wall Street.  But that isn’t feasible.  The financial
market is a permanent beast.  So I try to get past the obvious partisan
biases even on the liberal stations that I usually watch to learn what is
going on.  I cannot stand the R-W C stations for their theatrical
emotionalism and lies and accusations.  Of course some of the radical
leftist stations do the same thing but their voices do not seems as
shrill.  Weeding through all the rhetorical and yes, sophistic, crap is not
an easy thing to do. 

Perhaps it is time for a change, but the best changes are ones that take
like a vaccination, that takes time and sets up antibodies to ward off
disease by regulating the body systems.  There is disease brought
about by radical ideologies as well. 

It seems as MarthaA often says, that socialized capitalism is the
answer and I tend to agree with her but it is just a tendency.  I am
ignorant what that actually would mean?  How would it work?  I
certainly would not capitulate my home or my car or my clothes to live
in a commune, ride in a horse drawn wagon, or wear a nondescript
uniform.  I find it hard to believe you would give up your computer to a
communistic system!  I would want more said about such a structure. 
It is too easy to cavalierly say this needs changed that needs changed,
and throw fanatical and radical incitable words into the propaganda gin
mill, but without a concrete structure it is simply rhetoric and sophistry
as well.

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 18, 2010 at 11:55 pm Link to this comment

I don’t want to bury and dead zombies, can’t bury dead zombies
anyway as zombies are living dead. Yeah yeah, sure.  Nevertheless,
the metaphor for which they stand is that there is always residual
principles that are not removable.  I do believe that the basic idea
of capitalism is still a good idea.  It is not unique in that it can be
corrupted by greed and those desiring power.  It happens under
socialism as well and it is recorded history that it has. 

We could rail day and night and still retain our points of view unless
there is some confluence of ideas where agreement can start to take
place.

As I said I am always willing to listen to well-presented ideas but I
have a very difficult time with shouted generalities and inchoate
abstract ideas especially if it has to do with the way I live.  I do not
mind being part of a society, actually need to belong, and paying for its
administration and helping the less fortunate to have a decent life, but I
do not want to give up my individuality. So some achievable plan that
allows for both to flourish is what is needed far as I can tell.

Report this

By Sodium-Na, May 18, 2010 at 10:12 pm Link to this comment

For elisalouisa,

Elisa,

Please leave your comments on the website,next time,since my daughter who set-up the site for me likes to read all comments coming in. Unless you click the big title of the article at the top,you cannot get comment section at the bottom of each article. Please click the the big title of the article to get the comment section.

You may find some difficulty locating a place to buy the book from. My son bought it for me through the internet. I believe from Navada.

Good Luck,elisa.

Report this

By elisalouisa, May 18, 2010 at 9:01 pm Link to this comment

Sodium:
As you can see, I did post a comment on your blog. Frankly, I am at a loss for words but I did want you to know that I was concerned: I am going to order The 100; A RANKING OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN HUMAN HISTORY.
THE 100: A RANKING OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN HUMAN HISTORY.
BY
MICHAEL H.HART.

Sodium, I have a comment posted on your blog, under this review.

Report this
ThomasG's avatar

By ThomasG, May 18, 2010 at 8:27 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, May 18 at 10:15 pm,

Well, that was just a lovely post; I am not much into “pie in the sky by and by, either.

Aside from Nietzsche, love, and the afterlife, however, what does concern me is socialism for the rich and privatized capitalism for the populace.  This is primarily because I am a part of the 70% majority populace constituency, the peasantry; not a genteel peasant living on credit pretending to be middle class on someone else’s capital that is being rented for interest, but a cottager populace peasant.

As a part of the peasant populace constituency, the 70% Majority Common Population of the United States, I am not represented by a political party and therefore I am not represented in both houses of Congress and the U.S. Government with regard to the making and enforcing of legislated law and order; and, for that reason, I, along with all of the majority populace constituency, am forced to support socialism for the rich and privatized capitalism for the populace, and after 500 years of corrections to privatized capitalist economies at the expense of social capital to recapitalize privatized capital, after privatized capitalism has died, over and over again; I am sick to death of pretending that the Privatized Capitalism Zombie is alive and well, and is the best economic system in the world that provides life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness with freedom and justice for all.

For over 500 years privatized capitalism has provided privatized benefit to the capitalist elite constituency that live like a parasite on the populace; first of Britain and now of the United States, and I am ready for the zombie of privatized capitalism not to be resurrected again by social capital to reanimate its dead body.

It is time for a change.

It is time to let the long dead zombie of privatized capitalism die, decay, be eaten by worms, and disintegrate into dust.

It is time for the social capital that is cyclically used to reanimate the dead corpse of privatized capitalism to be used for socialized capitalism.

Again, it is time for a change.  It is time for the social capital that cyclically reanimates the dead corpse of privatized capitalism to be used for the creation of Socialized Capitalism, to bury the dead zombie of Privatized Capitalism, and after 500 years let the worms do what should have been done subsequent to privatized capitalism’s original death hundreds of years in the past.

Do you still support privatized capitalism being cyclically reanimated with social capital of the populace?  Or, have you had a change of heart with regard to supporting the dead corpse of privatized capitalism with the elixir of social capital?

Report this

By Sodium-Na, May 18, 2010 at 8:14 pm Link to this comment

For Truedigger3,

TD3,

I do not know what is going on between you and Night-Gaunt about getting something to rest. I intend to finish what I started. I will not stop in the middle of any project of mine. No way. I will try to finish it to night,if my energy helps. I will not make any degrading comments about Shenonymous. I really have enough of that and I despize it with profound passion. It is really not me.

Report this

By Sodium-Na, May 18, 2010 at 7:52 pm Link to this comment

To: To All Apple Polishers-They know who they are.

I have no time to respond to every one of you,separately. Because of this fact,I have felt that certain points deserve some clarifications:

What is involved is credibility. Nothing more. No Sinbad and no sabotage,Leefeller!!

Since your credibility,as far as I am concerned is zero with me and with the exception of OzarkMichael who wrote an acceptable or even a sensible post,the rest of you wrote posts that have failed miserably to improve your zero credibility with me,just a little bit higher. I accept only OzarkMichael’s post,inspite of the fact that we hardly agree on anything. In this case he has proven,at least to me,that he makes sense much much better than those of you who have appointed themselves the Prosecutor,Defense,
Judge and the Jury. Pity!!

All of you,Apple Polishers,can attack me,criticize me and calling me names from here till eternity. Nothing of that is going to change my system of thoughts. Until you prove to me that I am wrong and you are right,I adhere firmly to every words,sentence and paragraph I have written so far. What you have written so far does not deserve individual responses from me. Reasons:

(1) Your treatment of Truedigger3 was not a debate,at all. It was something else that reminds me of a bunch of high school’s bullies attacking one single other student. The question is who caused all that. Truedigger3 was a victim of manipulations of the whole incident from A to Z. He clearly was not the one who had deviated from the topic at hand which is about Religion and Nietzche. If he sensed there was a lie involved in distorting facts he knew,it is his duty to expose the lie even if he had no written proof. A lie is a lie is a lie. Period. I can,some times,detect a lie from facial expressions and sometimes I can detect a lie from reading between the lines. Please,tell me how in the world I can prove it is a lie from facial expressions or from reading between the lines?? The problem,in my views,stems from deviating from the topic at hand. And at the end bickerings take place. This has happened time and time again and I see no end insight. The culprit is the DEVIATORS,not the one who caught the lie.Period.

(2) I have presented a clear cut case of denial,supported by a factual document no one can even deny its authenticity. And yet and with the exception of OzarkMichael’s post of May 18 at 11:31 am,the content of your posts was disappointing. The biases were so obvious.

For OzarkMichael: Thank you for the acceptable or rather sensible post addressed to me. I have appreciated your post because it seems to me that really neutral and so detached from biases.

Rest assured,OzarkMichael,I have no intention intention,whatsoever,to reveal Shenonymous’
identity. I am much much bigger than that. I may hurt myself very badly to prove a point,but I will never hurt another fellow human being,like revealing his or her identity to prove a point.
Remember,I once mentioned to you and others that among my four heroes was/is Mahtma Ghandhi who once said: “Hate the sin,never the sinners”. That is the principle I try to live with. I may call her all kind of names to reciprocate calling names,although most of the time I ignore name-callings,any way.

I may use some of her communications with me to prove or disprove a point,but I will never reveal her real name or her home address or her e-mail. Never. You or her need not to worry about that. Remember: You,her and I were once friends. I must respect that.

Final words: If anyone of you was in place of Truediggere,including Shanonymous,I would have acted exactly the same way.No difference to me,whatsoever,which human being is in that position.

Report this

By truedigger3, May 18, 2010 at 6:33 pm Link to this comment

Re: By Night-Gaunt, May 18 at 8:44 pm #


Night-Gaunt,

Didn’t I tell you that I don’t want to pursue this issue anymore and to give it a rest.??!!
Something is not right here!!!  Give it a rest!!!

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 18, 2010 at 6:15 pm Link to this comment

Yes of course ThomasG.  I don’t speak or read German. His last
man was the Janus of the coin of ubermencsch.  But that is not really
important, it was written to show the weak and strong side of human
nature.  I made a pun about the eyes without eyelids, for they cannot
blink, they are as if toothpicks kept them open to spy for any morsel of
a moment to denigrate and obstruct anything and everything the liberal
Democrats and Obama wants to do.  You said to me – It would appear
to me that, as you have previously said, since you are a student of
Nietzsche, you should be able to focus inwardly more to sublimate and
realize that existence is mostly misery and misery can be eliminated
internally, not externally; or, do you still understand this statement by
your comment,
“I am not a miserable person.”

I do not know everything about him nor have I memorized every word
he wrote, so don’t attribute omniscience about Nietzsche to me. 
Night-Gaunt knows impressively and infinitely more. 

Even though for me there is nothing after this life, and that all of
humankind is subject to death, that whatever we do as we live on this
earth, whether it is the highest achievements or the lowest meanest
acts, eventually it will all disappear.  The good and the bad.  That is the
human condition. It is not necessarily a pessimism.  I also believe that
to make one’s life count, one must find out what it is and give
him/herself value.  I do not consider myself miserable in the least.  I
fully accept my mortality and all my children and their children. if I
don’t think I am not miserable, then I am not.  True, you could claim I
am delusional but that would be an uneducated opinion on your part.  I
am happy with myself and the way I’ve crafted my life.  While I would
like certain things to be different, I am happy with the way I relate to
the world even though I see that the world is in a miserable state in
many places.  Not everywhere, mind you, but in many places.  I am a
skeptic and verge on cynicism when I think about certain things such as
the nasty way mankind treats one another.  But I am not skeptical when
I play music or become involved in the arts in some way or another and
engage in helping humanity in my own small way.

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 18, 2010 at 6:12 pm Link to this comment

2.
Nietzsche was much too morbid even in his unique enlightenment. 
His desire to annihilate the existing world and rebuild it according to
his idea of perfection was I think much too diagnostic of his personal
misery.  His philosophy is out of date and not useful for the
contemporary world.  If it were to be updated it would take much
rethinking of his values, his view of Ecco Homo, and the Genealogy of
Morals.  I believe within the birth of tragedy is what I call the Nascence
of Optimism.

A dear dear friend wrote this to me today,

I think he would not mind if I reprint it here, as shorn of a mask, it is
profound.

With our backs up against the past and our future not so sure, we are
left armed with love.  That balance of equilibrium may not last, but that
Love is all there is, is all we know of Love.

This life is not the practice for a life to be lived, but somewhere it
leads to the Love we must share…Love we share when not at odds over
things that are meaningless.

If this is our last best chance to survive and the time is here to take a
stand should it not be that memories be overstocked with stories of
Love? Children know this thing as we all use to see.  We can be moved
to Love.

Fairy tales do not tell children that Love exists.  They tell children that
Love cannot be defeated. If our last days are filled with dispute and ill
will for mere ideas, we all are due a course correction.

Can I Love those who will not see? Can I not Love those who share this
moment in time? Is not the true mystery of the world the visible, not
the invisible?  Shall I lament the fact that roses have thorns, or will I be
able to see that sometimes, thorns have roses?

Do I really care what a theist and an atheist have to argue about? Could
I find the Love it takes for each other and realize we are all adrift in a
world that has no point? Should the last words that leave my lips be I
told you so?

Or would the singers at the death camps be most remembered for
thinking the world could be a Lovely place to be?

Love has an equalizing place among the brambles and should the
brambles win out in the end…Love should be said to have had its
opportunity.

Report this
ThomasG's avatar

By ThomasG, May 18, 2010 at 4:56 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, May 18 at 8:22 pm,

“The last man blinks”; this is from the root word blench, which means, the last man, humanity, deceives —— blinks.

Since you are a Nietzsche scholar, I am certain that you knew my comment had nothing to do with eyelids——right??!!

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, May 18, 2010 at 4:52 pm Link to this comment

Predators always seek out the weakest to kill and eat.

Science doesn’t promote the idea of perfect knowledge only religion does. Approximates are used and the closest and most reproduceable make it till something else comes along to supercede it. They search for the optimal not the perfect. Unlike religion where revelation is just that and Holy Writ is never changed (officially) since it is from a perfect being and therefor humans have nothing to say concerning it.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, May 18, 2010 at 4:44 pm Link to this comment

Here’s another Nietzsche quote to chew on;

“Jesus was the last true Christian to die on the cross.” (A paraphrase.)

Chomp, chomp!

As for you not-Truthdigger3 you failed again and I have read your tripe. No backup just tabloid screed. So I will not respond to you again till you actually prove what you say. To quote you “liar!”

Report this

By elisalouisa, May 18, 2010 at 4:38 pm Link to this comment

Peace is not achieved by controlling nations,
but mastering our thoughts.

JOHN HARRICHARAN

 

 

Nem: Predators are smarter than prey.

Elisa: Wrong. The hunted may be more trusting and not have the cunning of the Predator. The Predator may be more animalistic and have a sense of how to stalk and capture, such as a tiger, using skills that do not relate to intelligence.

Nem: You’ve asked me a series of questions and then take it upon yourself to answer them for me. (False dichotomy and circular reasoning fallacies). 

Elisa: Wrong. No one can answer those questions for you. I gave my impression of what was in the making as to the future. I did not answer the questions. The questions I asked:

Will you maim, murder, and commit other heinous acts to survive? 
Take the U.S. and the Dick Cheney leader types that we seem to have more and more of these days, is that the type of person you want to see more of down the road?
Is torture that such types condone morally correct?
What about those drones that swoop down and kill indiscriminately?
Where does it all end? Survival is important but at what cost emotionally and physically are you suggesting that we take it to? What about the military that return from battle shell shocked and battle weary? Should they be put into battle in that condition?
Would you slap that soldier in the face as General Patton did for refusing to return to combat?
Are the rules different for a nation who sees an enemy around every corner?

Nem:Eternity is a very long time; what would you do after about a 1,000 years? I’m 65 and I’m ready.
Wrong. In eternity time is no longer. Thus the eternal. It’s an exclusive club,  the activities are not discussed with inquirers. You must be a resident or on the waiting list. grin 

Scientific Hypothesis, Theory, Law Definitions
by Anne Marie Helmenstine, Ph.D., about.comGuide
Law
A law generalizes a body of observations. At the time it is made, no exceptions
have been found to a law. Scientific laws explain things, but they do not
describe them. One way to tell a law and a theory apart is to ask if the
description gives you a means to explain ‘why’.
Example: Consider Newton’s Law of Gravity. Newton could use this law to
predict the behavior of a dropped object, but he couldn’t explain why it happened.
**********
  As you can see, there is no ‘proof’ or absolute ‘truth’ in science. The
closest we get are facts, which are indisputable observations. Note, however, if
you define proof as arriving at a logical conclusion, based on the evidence,
then there is ‘proof’ in science. I work under the definition that to prove
something implies it can never be wrong, which is different. If you’re asked to
define hypothesis, theory, and law, keep in mind the definitions of proof and of
these words can vary slightly depending on the scientific discipline. What is
important is to realize they don’t all mean the same thing and cannot be used
interchangeably.
========
Conclusion, Even science cannot prove what is. Why ask me to?

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 18, 2010 at 4:22 pm Link to this comment

We could quote and counterquote Nietzsche for daze, ThomasG,
and not end it for a week or two.  So here is another one that gives
me a laugh every time I run across it.  “A casual stroll through the
lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.”
  I’m
surprised you are so mild mannered here. It is so unlike you.  Here
is a surpise for you, in return…I would agree with you, ThomasG
about Right-Wing sophist propagandists, except not having any
eyelids, I don’t think they blink.  They walk around as in a paralogistic
fog.

Leefeller could tell you a thing or two about the moosehunter
on her porch.  He follows her sophistry and I don’t.  I find her the least
interesting woman in the world of politics.  And her voice grates on my
sensitive ears.

Report this
Tennessee-Socialist's avatar

By Tennessee-Socialist, May 18, 2010 at 4:16 pm Link to this comment

BUY THE BOOK THE WILL TO POWER BY FREDRICH NIETZSCHE. NIETZSCHE’S PHILOSOPHY IS THE ONLY THING THAT CAN OVERTHROW CAPITALISM IN USA !!

http://www.amazon.com/Will-Power-Friedrich-Nietzsche/dp/0394704371/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Nietzsche saw political correctness (“the values that judge”) coming over a century before it started taking hold. It is only in this book of his notes that his ideas about the consequences of the feminism, physiological exhaustion, and degeneracy of our ‘leading lights’, and the passive and active nihilism that it brings forth, are expressed.

This one extract says far more than all of the books by the modern ‘philosophers’ and ‘psychologists’ put together do about the nature of what we are still blindly staring in the face…

37 (Spring - Fall 1887)

“The development of pessimism into nihilism. - Denaturalisation of values. Scholasticism of values. Detached and idealistic, values, instead of dominating and guiding action, turn against action and condemn it. Opposites replace natural degrees and ranks. Hatred against the order of rank. Opposites suit a plebeian age because easier to comprehend. The repudiated world versus an artificially built “true, valuable” one. - Finally: one discovers of what material one has built the “true world”: and now all one has left is the repudiated world, and one adds this supreme disappointment to the reasons why it deserves to be repudiated. At this point nihilism is reached: all one has left are the values that pass judgement - nothing else.

“Here the problem of strength and weakness originates:

1. The weak perish of it.
2. Those who are stronger destroy what does not perish.
3. Those who are strongest overcome the values that pass judgement.

“In sum this constitutes the tragic age.”

If you have read all of Nietzsche’s completed works you should have a good idea of the full compass of his thinking, and a good feel for his unique ability to express himself. You should be able to tell if two people with no such genius - his sister, Elizabeth, or his associate, Peter Gast - who were responsible for compiling this book - were in any way responsible for altering any of these notes in order to add weight to Nazi philosophy. If those talentless people had added ideas to these notes that Nietzsche would not have agreed with, the changes would have been all too apparent. For instance, all of a sudden Nietzsche would have been shown to hold anti-Semitic views. Views that he deplored. In fact, on one notable occasion, Wagner’s anti-Semitism made him feel physically ill, and it was one of the reasons he ended his friendship with the composer.

There could be no better antidote to the modern ills than this book.

Report this
ThomasG's avatar

By ThomasG, May 18, 2010 at 3:44 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, May 18 at 4:27 pm,

And, Nietzsche said, “The last man blinks”, and I say that by nature Right-Wingers are sophist propagandists, I’m sure you agree, right, Shenonymoose? —- , yeah, that’s right, like the one that can see Russia from her front porch.

Report this

By elisalouisa, May 18, 2010 at 1:56 pm Link to this comment

  As Self Assigned Inquisitor
Give it a Rest.
 

 

I have never placed you with any group Night-Gaunt and always treated you as an individual whose posts reflect truth as you see it. Sodium-Na, Truthdigger3 and I are also individuals and have our own views on politics and everyday life .We are not a group; we do not have a common goal or ideal. I respect both Sodium  and TD3  as well as other posters on Truthdig, just as I respected Ardee who was sincere in his comments. Obviously sincerity is not a quality that is placed in high regard here. There is much disagreement as to what has transpired. Let’s just leave at that and as self assigned inquistor, give it a rest.

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 18, 2010 at 12:28 pm Link to this comment

Oops

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 18, 2010 at 12:27 pm Link to this comment

And Nietzsche said, Everything that is profound loves the mask,
TommieG{/b]

But then what did he know?

Report this
ThomasG's avatar

By ThomasG, May 18, 2010 at 12:19 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, May 18 at 3:16 pm,

I liked your poem, but I think the following poem is more appropriate to paid sophists like you, OzarkMichael, Leefeller and NightGaunt who are lurking around on the internet trying to propagandize and mislead the populace from a Right-Wing boiler room.

“Masked by that brilliant weed’s deceitful green
No glint of the dark waters can be seen,
Which festering slumbers with this scum for screen.
It is as though a face as false as fair
Dared not by smiling show Evil there.” ——Author Unknown

Report this

By truedigger3, May 18, 2010 at 12:04 pm Link to this comment

Re: By Night-Gaunt, May 18 at 2:14 pm #

Night-Gaunt,

Give it a rest.!! You accused me, in a former post, of “being lazy and lacking due diligence”.! Are you projecting yourself on me.??!!
If you insist on pursuing this matter, which I don’t, then re-read the thread CAREFULLY.!!
OVER AND OUT!!!

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 18, 2010 at 11:43 am Link to this comment

Not meaning to diminish in anyway what you so eloquently and
impressively just said nemeis2010, but I always heard that “life’s
a park bench then you die.”  That gives the bitches an even break.

Leonard Cohen once said he had indulged in all the various religions
and philosophies but cheerfulness kept breaking through.

Report this

By nemesis2010, May 18, 2010 at 11:25 am Link to this comment

By elisalouisa, May 17 at 9:17 pm #

1. I wrote organism, not organization. Big difference; one is a concept, the other is a living entity or form.

2. Predators are smarter than prey.

3. The human brain has three evolutionary layers—reptilian, limbic (mammalian), and neocortex (primate) —that all interact with one another. I mentioned this because you need to understand that there’s a filtering process that takes place in the brain and there are also shortcuts through the filtering process. So depending on the situation and how “reasoning” is processed we are capable of almost anything.

4. You’ve asked me a series of questions and then take it upon yourself to answer them for me. (False dichotomy and circular reasoning fallacies).

5. From what I’ve studied and understand we could say that life begins at about 20 wks. That still has to be worked out scientifically and socially. But yes, basically, you’re born then you cease to exist. It isn’t a bad thing; it’s good. You are right, nothing goes to waste, your atoms continue on for a very long time. It is estimated (Martin Rees) that atoms live for about 10 to the 35th power years; enter Quantum Mechanics.

Eternity is a very long time; what would you do after about a 1,000 years? I’m 65 and I’m ready. I’ve lived a life that few in the entire history of humankind has had the opportunity to experience; both good and bad. I’ve lived after enlightenment and things like modern medicine which means I didn’t have to die a miserable f—king death in pain and agony from an infected tooth or a broken bone or tied to a stake while some goddamned priest or other religious bastard put me to the torch. I can SAFELY travel further in a matter of hours than most of humanity could—perilously—in their entire lifetimes. Our universe is heading toward the big freeze and our earth to cinders when our sun converts from a yellow dwarf to a red giant. 

Life’s a bitch, then we die, thank goodness!

6. Actually elisalouisa, the pomposity comes from people like you who have absolutely no evidence whatsoever to back any of their absurd claims about things they CANNOT possibly know and dare to say that we are the ones that need help and don’t understand.

Your Bombay Sapphire gin martinis accomplish just as much as your meditation with respect to the world and universe. It makes the believer feel he/she is something special. In the words of the great philosopher Steve Allen:

”If you pray for rain long enough, it eventually does fall. If you pray for floodwaters to abate, they eventually do. The same happens in the absence of prayers.”

I have the right and the OBLIGATION to question everything. In the Dark Ages it was forbidden to question. We are children of enlightenment and we should question everything.

Tell me elisalouisa, should I question what is said in the 3 min. video or accept it on faith? Do you accept what this guy says or do you question it?

The Virgins in the Muslim Heaven

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68gRPEyjzOE&feature=player_embedded

There’s another one that said women and their breasts are the cause of the increase and severity of earthquakes. No one dares to inform him that Pat Robertson disagrees and says it is homosexuals and not teaching creationism in school, but more importantly; not only is there no increase in number or severity of volcanoes, there are a couple of sciences—geology and volcanology—that provide evidence that earthquakes are not caused by tits. Well, not outside of men’s pants anyway.

Another recommendation; this book will blow you away. It is a very easy and enjoyable read and you can even use it to impress your grandchildren and friends. The author is not a scientist so the language is readily understandable.

Bill Bryson’s “A Short History of Everything.”

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 18, 2010 at 11:16 am Link to this comment

ThomasG, I won’t respond to your vacuous comment, because
since I am an honorary Jew, there is no way that I would have given a
moment of any expression Hitler and his fascistic brethren.  You know
this about me as I have said so many times and that you merely say
that to cover your own fascistic tendencies wanting to bash people with
bats or have them bang their heads against walls.  That is your way,
ThommieG, to do violence like the several others I’ve noted on
this forum.

Instead here is a song by that other wonderful Jew, Leonard Cohen,
who is now old but is still strong in his non-religious belief but is a
holy man nonetheless. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zKk76YkF1U&NR=1
A youtube is the best I can do to give you the sentiments here:
These are the lyrics but you and anyone else who loves music and
freedom might link up to the youtube.

“Anthem”

The birds they sang
at the break of day
Start again
I heard them say
Don’t dwell on what
has passed away
or what is yet to be.
Ah the wars they will
be fought again
The holy dove
She will be caught again
bought and sold
and bought again
the dove is never free.

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That’s how the light gets in.

We asked for signs
the signs were sent:
the birth betrayed
the marriage spent
Yeah the widowhood
of every government—
signs for all to see.

I can’t run no more
with that lawless crowd
while the killers in high places
say their prayers out loud.
But they’ve summoned, they’ve summoned up
a thundercloud
and they’re going to hear from me.

Ring the bells that still can ring ...

You can add up the parts
but you won’t have the sum
You can strike up the march,
there is no drum
Every heart, every heart
to love will come
but like a refugee.

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That’s how the light gets in.

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That’s how the light gets in.
That’s how the light gets in.
That’s how the light gets in.

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 18, 2010 at 11:00 am Link to this comment

truedigger3, I realize that it is the last thing you could stand,
but I did offer to give you a hug at least, and if appropriate I would
even give you a kiss.  I offered an olive branch once, and I usually
do not a second time, but in your case, I would since the animosity
had gotten to such a fevered pitch (uh, me the She Evil Pitch) haha. 
I only beseech you that when you run into a forum where I do
comment that you not take a cross-bow shot at my forehead, but to
take issue with my comments if you disagree. I wholly welcome
disagreement since that is the only way I can see where I am wrong
and can learn from my paltry mis-knowledge.  I don’t doubt I am
wrong, probably a good deal of the time, but no one really convinces
me with any substantial argument.  That is when I start to believe I am
on to some truth, when those who have no real argument simply attack
me personally.  It is a pitiful sinking into the black hole of ignorance.

I wish you well, truedigger3 and hopefully you do not need the
gauzy cloak of a ersatz father.  You have shown on occasion some
strength of mind, if not, in my opinion, strength of argument.  It is
your arguments that I have only confronted until you started the vicious
name-calling.  That action always sets my buttons in motion.  It is well-
known.  I will back off from calling you names and hope you have the
strength to do the same.

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 18, 2010 at 10:44 am Link to this comment

What is this, a TD calling of She’s ghosts past?

Ardee please come home now, we need you!

TG shows up with his bucket on his head.

Anyone who ever had their head handed to them in a basket, please come back Shester has her Guillotine ready!

I just left the Illegal alien thread and we have the Azania crowd and the Socialists fighting over who can insult better. Liquor Store Larry is holding his own, but Jay seems to be rebutting with regularity. 

Maybe I should go and see were the other food fights are happening, so I can update everyone? 

Me thinks this dialog sabotage is planned to prevent real dialog for various reasons, which I could speculate on but will not. 

It is obvious to me some posters resent She for different reasons, from ego to sexism, maybe envy and even jealousy, to me most disgusting human characteristic’s!

Sodium and others have disappointed me for respect is earned not demanded, Sodium you write very similar to another poster named Sindbad? But if sabotage is the goal so be it! Sodium the gentleman, this remains to be seen?

Disagreement does not need be a food fight, only the small minded need use this tactic for lack of other abilities.

All opinions are set in sand, only difference is I know mine are!

Report this

By truedigger3, May 18, 2010 at 10:30 am Link to this comment

Re: By Sodium-Na, May 18 at 4:40 am #


Hi Sodium-Na,

As you know, the internet, including truthdig posters is infested and swarmed with all kind of nut cases and other charachters, who are sometimes, have very evil and sinsiter agendas.
So, I am very surprised and perplexed that you gave your (true indentity and home address!!!!!) to a total stranger like Shenonymous who definitely has emotional stability issues, and definitely is not posting in good faith and for honest discussions when the subject is current events or history.
Yes, she is very good in philosophy and abstract logic, and is using that, hoping it will spell over covering her lies and fabrications in other subjects and her “zionist groupee agenda”.
I don’t take seriously the results of any discussions here in truthdig, neither I lose sleep or go out down-town drinking in celebration, and many times, after few days, after the “wounds” and “bruises” heal, there is tacit kiss/makeup with some individuals like ITW&Leefeller; but not all of the rest who , some of them, are really mean-spirited and cruel.
Best wishes and regards.

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, May 18, 2010 at 10:14 am Link to this comment

Re: By Sodium-Na, May 17 at 10:56 am #

Re: By elisalouisa, May 17 at 11:49 am #

Thank you.  That is your posse Truthdigger3 as per your criterion lumping us all together. If you have read any of my posts concerning Israel you would know I am not a Zionist.

“and why did you jump to her defense, despite her obvious lies and fabrications and her vulgar obscene ad hominem attacks??!!”

Because they were defensive against your unprovoked attack that you did not prove were true. Saying they are and proving them so aren’t the same. You never even identified their particulars. Just show me a quote from her and your rebuttle showing it to be false. You have not done this before. So you are full of aspersions but no facts in this. I would have done the same for myself or anyone else for the same reasons. So stop digressing and start showing exactly where she is lying? If you can’t then apologize for lying yourself.

A coward says things they have no proof of, as you did with Shenonymous & me now. Show me where she lied. Right now next time you post and example or three. Do it to show me you really mean it and not just being a troll or worse.

You still deflect and do not answer your charges with actual quotes to back it up on those you rail against. No you haven’t proven your point. As to chivalry I like it but it isn’t to do with Shenonymous except in the area of where you call her things you don’t back up. It just appears that that I am coming to her defense.. So you are just a poseur, no substance to you. Nada, zilch, nihilo, void….need I go on? If you refuse to answer* this then you too will be ignored as I do others when I see they are in their cocoons and refuse to come out. This is your choice.

*You must answer directly no diversion or “I’ve done it already” crap. This is your only chance.

Report this
OzarkMichael's avatar

By OzarkMichael, May 18, 2010 at 9:29 am Link to this comment

I said: “Even if you succeed in driving one barbarian from the gate, there will be two to replace him tomorrow. And the original barbarian takes heart and returns.”


ThomasG… takes this as his que to return. 

ThomasG… the original barbarian.

Report this
ThomasG's avatar

By ThomasG, May 18, 2010 at 8:53 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, May 18 at 12:38 pm,

What happened to you, and OzarkMichael’s sophistic defense of Adolph Hitler’s rhetoric and propaganda?

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 18, 2010 at 8:38 am Link to this comment

Why ThomasG, you are chiming in!  Nah uh…Same dance,
same tune!  I see the male Contingent is happiest when they
gang bang and bash Shenonymous, who is the only woman on all
of TD to challenge you and your woman-hating brutality. It is noticed
how submissive the ladies are on this website to the male population.
You are just as irrelevant as you always are.  You really need to consult
with your relative MarthaA who speaks circles around you. I see
you still have your head in that bucket of your own crap. 

When “personalities” dare to start calling me names they have turned
the dialogue into one about personalities.  Do check my posts to see
exactly where and when it became personal.  But of course with that
bucket on your head you would not be able to read for any
comprehension.

And to Sodium/Nabih selective recall,
Unquote?========
Douglas Chalmers responded by the following paragraph concerning
Nabih Ammari:
“By Douglas Chalmer,February 13,2008at 12:34 pm
Is that what GWOT has achieved? Even the Neocons still think in
millions-I hope. And you can’t get Nabih Ammari to crawl up your ass
on this one…....
Unquote?========

My response to Chalmers to the comment you post and conveniently
left out because it would undermine your point:  To his his “lovely
language,” this is what I said:

By Shenonymous, February 13, 2008 at 2:34 pm #

Sorry, but I went to:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_live_on_earth ?which gave
this figure ? about 4 billion, or 4,000,000,000 The rewards of being too
much in a hurry to get on with life. I have a job, do you?

I should have gone to the Census Bureau this a.m.?U. S. Census Bureau
World 6,650,335,519 at Wed. 10:24 a.m.

You are right, Douglas Chalmers And while you are at it, why don’t you
crawl up your own ass and see if you can find yourself there? I think
that is your normal place of residence.”

Now I can only surmise Sodium/Nabih that perhaps you were upset
that you did not get to crawl up my ass!  And you a married man! 
Shame on you.

Report this

By elisalouisa, May 18, 2010 at 8:17 am Link to this comment

Ardee,hopefully not gone, certainly not
forgotten.

Hope you soon come back to visit Ardee.

Report this
ThomasG's avatar

By ThomasG, May 18, 2010 at 8:00 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, May 17 at 11:19 pm,

Same dance, just a different tune, huh, Shenonymous.

Still wearing your emotions like flowing robes that get tangled in everything, I see; and willing to reduce dialogue to personalities and a bucket.

It would appear to me that, as you have previously said, since you are a student of Nietzsche, you should be able to focus inwardly more to sublimate and realize that existence is mostly misery and misery can be eliminated internally, not externally; or, do you still understand this statement by your comment, “I am not a miserable person”.

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 18, 2010 at 7:59 am Link to this comment

And Nabih, you think you have indicted me on what?  Of course
Douglas Chalmers and I had differences, and it was blistering on both
our parts, for like you, he had the most abominable of language, just
like Robert, of the Contingent, you must be of the same tribe!  And it
took some doing to extend a hand in a peaceful gesture.  That heated
disagreement was even more mighty than any except the long siege
recently with Shingo, you remember Shingo don’t you, another
you recruited as a protégé.  And Shingo and I did desist, though
perhaps not friends, but with a civility.  He I respected for his
intelligence, and Chalmers I also respected for the same, but
truedigger3, is another matter.  He is sophomoric in his
knowledge and in his attitude.  But you, you are the one that lacks
integrity and honor.  Neither of those lofty gentlemen ever threatened
me, nor did truedigger3 much to his credit.  But you, you are vile
in thought and deed.  And yes, I have reported you, and will do so
again if need be.  Eventually you will be by your own hand expunged. 
You can quote me until kingdom come and it is useless since even in
the quote you printed here in an attempt to insult me, had nothing that
would impugn my character.  It is only you whose ugly complexion of
thought and word that is displayed. 

Much will be said in the heat of an argument but even more telling is
the willingness to compromise.  This is something I do with all my
adversaries.  I always offer an opportunity to desist, with both
retreating, however, in my but once offer to truthdigger3, it was
refused and he kept at his name-calling.  I don’t offer a second time.  It
seems you read for only what you want to read.  Looking back to March
2008 and the War of the Word Forum, where Chalmers and I
participated, it can easily be seen that there was no rancor left as the
forum closed.  Your protégé cyrena even made a comment about
Chalmers as “the epitome of torture on blogs,” saying “So much for the
paradox of there goes the 1st Amendment.”  As a matter of fact your
protégé thanked me a several times for my comments on that forum. 
And as another matter of fact, Chalmers was unearthed to be a
misogynist, with the foulest of mouths about me and about all women
and your protégé concurred with me on that score on the extraordinary
forum Evangelical Rebellion!  Yet I came to a calm conclusion with
Chalmers where we briefly discussed Tibet and the conflict with the
Buddhists that was happening there in anticipation of the Olympics. 
Where is your head?

We will see what will ensue in this encounter Sodium Na.  My
comment to you Feb 13, 2008 as “One of the most self-reflective,
peaceful individuals that visits this forum is Nabih Ammari.  What do
you say, Nabih?”  is certainly evidence of how you fooled me.  I have
never said I wasn’t a fool… at times.  But I squint my eyes and argue
well and that just is not tolerable, is it?

Report this
OzarkMichael's avatar

By OzarkMichael, May 18, 2010 at 7:31 am Link to this comment

Sodium,

I worry when people reveal their own real name on an internet forum. While it is certainly your choice to do so, it was done in anger, and you are not being as wise as usual.

You are in a heated argument and you feel you must do this to get to what is real. But I dont think it is going to help.

I would like you to think of the nice opinion that Shenonymous once had of you. She thought you were the “gentleman” of Truthdig. Now she seems to think you are a cad. Which of those opinions is correct?

Both of these opinions cannot be true. Your actions now will prove which of those opinions are correct.

As you publish her personal correspondence there are lines you are crossing that a gentleman wouldnt cross. Whatever integrity you have will evaporate.

And for what? An internet argument? Defending truedigger3? Putting Shenonymous in her place? Or do you think you are somehow proving your own integrity?

We all know that She wont back down. So you will have to cross another line, and by doing so you will be less of a gentleman. And She still wont back down. So then you have to go to the mat. The very bottom of internet and human ettiquette.

Why? to prove that you are a gentleman? I dont think that is working. I dont think the people that you are doing this for are worth ruining your own reputation.

Most of all i dont think that you prove yourself to be right by doing something wrong.

I too will give out my own name to make things right. Yes, i would do this if it would stop you from doing the foolish things which you are contemplating. For we are within our rights to ruin our own privacy, but we must not wreck the privacy of others.

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 18, 2010 at 2:02 am Link to this comment

It is said the Inquisition was a seeker of the truth, I wonder if that was true in their minds also?

Hedges states; “The Bible works only as metaphor”.  I respect this comment, for I have a close friend who went to seminary and seems to be in a very similar mood about religion and the bible as reflected in this commentary by Hedges.

For me this is one of Hedges best articles only from my agreement in experiences and reflections being quite similar. Uncovering of delusions and deceptions comes to each individuals notice in different ways and with different effects, if at all.

Several years ago I read a book titled “Comfort of the Pew” written by a ex clergy from Candia.

What I found most intriguing is nothing has changed and Hedges article could have been written 50 years ago as was the “Comfort of the Pew”!

Report this

By Sodium-Na, May 18, 2010 at 12:40 am Link to this comment

Re: Shenonymous,May 17 at 11:19 pm.

Hay Evil Pitch,

I have got you by the neck,by the arms and by the legs. And there is no way you can get away from your vicious and meanspirited verbal assault on any one who disagrees with your nonsense crap.

You know my real name,my private e-mail,my surface address,do you not? Perhaps you wish you to deny that too. Ha?

At the time in February of 2008,when you implore me to intervene to save your ars from Douglas Chalmer’s
wrath,I WAS USING MY REAL NAME,NOT SODIUM.

Who is losing his memory,this “prevaricating” old man or you,the repulsive Evil Pitch?

Before I expose your lies and professional denial,I wish to address the following information to all readers of this forum,especially to Truedigger3, because I am doing what is coming to him or her,although I have no idea who he or she is. And I am doing it with no regret whatsoever:

My Real Name is Dr. Nabih Ammari. I am a holder of a Doctorate Degree in College Teaching of Organic Chemistry,with other several degrees,including a Business Administration Degree.I am very fluent in Arabic language,Arabic literature its prose and poetry. In addition,I studied Islam for four years,although I am not a Muslim. I have been a student of history all my life. Retired.

I am an Arab American who hates no body,including the Evil Pitch. My interest is in the truth.

The following post was written by Shenonymous:

Quote
======

By Shenonymous,February 13,2008 at 9:48 am.

Peace and 4 billion people

There are 4 billion people who populate the world.

Imagine 4 billion people self-reflecting and being in the mental state of knowing themselves. If we were absolute replicas of one model,would there never be the problem of war? the problem is that when we expressour wishes for peace,which is really an abstract notoin,we have a bit of amnesia about how
complex the world is.Its’nt so much a matter of each and every member of humankind learning to admit to their excess and petty needs,(which is what I assume Maani means by the psychological denial)it is precisely a matter of each and every member of the 4 billionhaving the same degree of morals and values of material existence.

It is’nt so much that the ordinary of the 4 bllion exercise introspection,most of them have a hard enough time even understanding what that word might meanit is to have those who desire wealth and power over others to become introspective and moral and altruism. Theindividuals Maani speak of are the ones that make it difficult if not impossible to do this. How do we identify each and every one of those degenerates? For you would have to root out each and every one.

How shal we go about creating a world of 4 billion who are introspective,moral,peaceful? How shall we begin?  You say,begin with yourself. All well and good and commendable. But what about the other 3,999,999,999? One of the most self-reflective,peaceful individuals that visits this form is Nabih Ammari.What do say Nabih?

Unquote
========

Douglas Chalmers responded by the following paragraph concerning Nabih Ammari:

“By Douglas Chalmer,February 13,2008at 12:34 pm

Is that what GWOT has achieved? Even the Neocons still think in millions-I hope. And you can’t get Nabih Ammari to crawl up your ass on this one…....

Unquote
========

The above quoted posts are telling of what you are and totally negate all the deniels,lies and fabrication you try very hard to deny the truth.

What a pitiful creature you are!!!

The letter I sent to you home address in Texas had nothing to do with Douglas Chalmers. It had to do with another tormenter of yours. His name is FIN WEK who accused of taking drugs and suggested to you to seek help.

Shortly,I shall post some of the exchanges between me and Douglas and a post addressed to me,Nabih Ammari,from Shenonymous.

NO FURTHER COMMENTS FOR TONIGHT.

Report this
Tennessee-Socialist's avatar

By Tennessee-Socialist, May 17, 2010 at 8:33 pm Link to this comment

http://www.takeoverworld.info/parenti_talks.html <—Go to this link to download speeches on MP3s by Dr. Michael Parenti about the real truth of US founding Fathers, US History and US Imperialism and that in 1776 USA was founded by oligarchs and bankers as an oligarchic-empire and not as a beacon of liberty, freedom and social egalitarian democracy as people are taught in schools

,

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 17, 2010 at 7:19 pm Link to this comment

A sniper shoots at other people as opportunity offers from a
concealed or safe position.  A sniper attacks a person with
petulant and snide criticism from a safe distance.  The cover of
the Internet provides the concealment for snipers to take the
advantage to attempt assassination of a person perceived to be the
better in character and intelligence.

So Sodium-Na flies in on his carpet to prevaricate, to lie, and
since I have a record of every forum on which I ever posted I can prove
his conceited lies.  I have never needed help from the salty old man.  It
was Douglas Chalmers not Chambler, so you see how wrong is your
memory.  All that you say has been fictionalized to puff up your self-
image as a defender of the pathetic.  You also imagine that poor
truedigger3 is unable to defend himself, against someone you
say is an Evil Bitch (how stupidly hypocritical to call me a Pitch) and
that is a travesty on your part and his.  Your patronization is a function
of your disrespect for truth and honor. 

I have a letter Sodium Na, that you, under a different user ID,
wrote to me on how to defend against the venom of antagonists like
Chalmers. Notice, however, not needing your ‘fatherliness’ that I did
not take your advice but I am still here and Chalmers is not.  But our
memory is narrowly selective.  Before Chalmers left he and I came to a
peaceful resolution for our differences. He did have some honor.  He
was going to China and we had a satisfying discussion about Buddhism. 

Only truth prevails and I have presented the truth.  My every post
speaks for itself and I do not have to defend anything I’ve said, ever. 
But I will defend my person against any depraved attacker It is your
protégé who admittedly initiated the name-calling then escalated it
when he felt the sting of my replies, and now whining like a small
sniveling boy.  That’s what you love, Sodium Na, you love
protégés.  People you can meld to your self with umbilical cords.  You
know, Sodium Na, hatred eats one from the inside out, and as a
chemist you know eventually you will have nothing left of your outside
from all the acidic bile you spew at me in particular but have always
done to several others.  It is a sad thing to see someone who calls
himself a man pull out his murderous knives and attempt to decimate
another human being. 

If you attempt to make a shamble of me you will not like the beast you
will unleash.  For you have now threatened me and I have reported you. 
And you have also threatened them!  Enough bullshit from your
malignant mouth.  We were never friends since you only wanted
another protégé and when I did not bow you attacked me even though
you sent me pearls!  What a laugh.  Friends do not viciously attack their
“friends.”  You are ignorant of what the word friend means. Yes I do
know who you are and what you are, and you know me.  And it is your
evil that you parade about and wrap yourself up in it like it is a robe. 
And it was my pure folly to think a destitute individual such as yourself
could ever be called a friend.

If anyone speaks on my behalf it is not because I solicited them to do
so. It is because they keenly perceived the lack of character that racks
your protégé, who obviously has become unhinged from the truth that
lies under the surface of his skin.  I dare you to show any post he has
made that advances the topic of this forum.  Obviously a similar lack of
character racks your own self.  You give me much too much power
Sodium Na.  You build up my stature with every denigrating post
you make about me.  You admit with every nasty accusation that I am
powerful for you have no rational argument.  It shows how really weak
you are.  You are a sniper with no ethics.  There is a short phrase for
it… you lack integrity.

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 17, 2010 at 6:12 pm Link to this comment

Ozark Michael stated; “You are terribly wrong about many issues but i am working on that.”

Depends on what you mean by terribly wrong OM!

Since I never know the truth as an absolutism, I am always wrong, never right and willing to change me mind about the alleged truth, but I may even be wrong about that!

Inquisition was over rated, under rated, not real or just an entertaining part of history?  What were or are, your interests about the Inquisition? Not sure I want to buy a book on the “Popes Guide to Making Your Own Sadistic equipment” and buying a popcorn machine and giving demonstrations even it would happen to prove lucrative!

If one cannot believe half of what they read and the other half is not true, what is one to do?

I like being wrong all the time, it is much easier that way, but not sure about being terribly wrong, I haven’t tried that yet!

Report this

By elisalouisa, May 17, 2010 at 5:17 pm Link to this comment

Of course, you are correct as to the future gene pool Nemesis. Concerning what the first priority of any organization is, that is up to the organization. If survival is #1 priority the point that begs consideration is who decides what is
necessary for survival and the lengths one is willing to go to in order to accomplish that. Are you willing to kill your mother? Your children? Will you maim, murder, and commit other heinous acts to survive?  Take the U.S. and the Dick Cheney leader types that we seem to have more and more of these
days, is that the type of person you want to see more of down the road? Is torture that such types condone morally correct? What about those drones that swoop down and kill indiscriminately? If survival is priority #1 is there no line as
to immoral action? That is what you are really saying. Then all our WMD’s are justifiable, just as pre-emptive war is. Kill ‘em all. Where does it end? Survival is important but at what cost emotionally and physically are you suggesting that we
take it to? What about the military that return from battle shell shocked and battle weary. Would you slap that soldier in the face as General Patton did for refusing to return to combat?  What about our recent war vets who no longer have it together? Are the rules different for a nation who sees an enemy around
every corner. What about global domination? Is that necessary for survival. Take control before “they” do.  Who decides what is necessary for survival? As the finer qualities that we possess are deemed of little value and in fact a deterrent to lifestyle and survival, will life be worth it when only the George W.‘s and Dick Cheney’s are left? That is the real question. For along with
survival, how one lives is important.  How much priority should be placed on values that make life worthwhile? There will always be an enemy, no one nation shall ever have complete power, a revolution will always be in the making. Strong, fascist control may be in our future and may cause much devastation.
A time may also come when many are weary of the killing and “me first” lifestyle, that’s when the seeds laid by those who seek Peace and Justice shall
bear fruit. Our thoughts do not die and there is power in the mind to bring
change. Nothing is lost, it is all out there somewhere. As to feeling good there
is the Bombay Sapphire gin martini and then there is meditation.  People
meditate, pray for many reasons which one cannot communicate through the
spoken or written word. What I experience you cannot know and therefore you
have no right to question. Such meditation does bring about a
feeling of well being and reenergizes one in many ways. Do you really believe
as to our being that birth is the beginning and death the end? If you look
closely you shall see that nothing goes to waste, all is recycled and so that
spark of life that is within passes on, to what I do not know. How pompous to
assume that if you cannot fathom what is in another realm, it does not
exist.
Thank you for the reading material recommendations. I shall keep your
recommendations on the back burner for now, am way behind on my reading.

Report this
OzarkMichael's avatar

By OzarkMichael, May 17, 2010 at 4:57 pm Link to this comment

I had proposed that we evaluate the Inquisition and thereby begin a review of Christianity in history. I was hoping to begin a thought experiment with you guys.

Partly to test Outraged’s intellectual talents, since I suspect he/she might be a good contributor to our discussions. Partly to stir up some self criticism since I feel myself getting stale. Partly to teach my agnostic and atheist friends a few new things. Partly to change the tone of this thread by getting all of you focus on a common ‘enemy’.

I watch my friends in prolonged electronic brawls, and worry that the work and creativity that goes into the process could be better spent. Yes, sometimes you need to defend your integrity. However, we are spending a majority of our time on Truthdig fighting instead of discussing. I like to provoke, and I will go after “the bad guys” just as much as anybody, but I can’t enjoy a potentially good conversation with the constant bickering in the backround.

The far Left is coming to Truthdig in greater numbers. Even if you succeed in driving one barbarian from the gate, there will be two to replace him tomorrow. And the original barbarian takes heart and returns. So now it is three. I could drive one off, but there is a price to pay in the process and at this point it is an endless process.

One problem is that rough talk and insults are a way of life for them. It is part of their doctrine. As we deal with them in kind, we also deal with each other more roughly, and we are more ready to feel insulted even by old friends.

I think it was Cicero who said, “They have us at a disadvantage, since they are accustomed to coarse talk and they casually accept insults to their honor, while we are not used to the former and cannot ignore the latter.”

Another problem is that banding together in class solidarity and declaring total war against another class is natural for them.

As the independent thinkers face this onslaught we begin to band together. Why are we doing this? Yes, to keep from friendly fire casualties, and to deal more effectively with the barbarians. But this is not our way.

I much preferred it when we were bumping into each other at unexpected points of debate, sometimes agreeing and disagreeing with the same person in one post!

We dont like allies. We dont like teams. Intellectual discussion is performed by individuals in contact with other individuals. Debate by teams is the method of adolescence. So I dont want to be on a team. I suspect that you guys dont either. We are playing their game by their rules. 

Yes, you can handle the constant swirling e-brawl environment, and I admire that. Yes, you can win the argument. But i ask you, “Is that the argument you want to have on Truthdig?”

As part of full disclosure, I am going to say that I count as my friends: Inherit the Wind, Night Gaunt, Anarcissie, Shenonymous, Leefeller, and a few more. If one of you needed help i would drive over to help you because i already ‘know’ and like you. You are terribly wrong about many issues but i am working on that.

Report this

By truedigger3, May 17, 2010 at 1:27 pm Link to this comment

Re:By Night-Gaunt, May 17 at 3:28 pm #

Night-Gaunt,

I am baffled. The facts and the thread are just in front of your eyes, and you are still continuing your obfuscation and going back to square one. I don’t think you are reading most of my posts, but you are just joining the contingent against me.
I don’t have a posse, but you are having the zionist contingent, and let us cut to the chase, are you a member of that zionist contingent under ITW leadership??!! You ask me: why I am so threatened by Shenonymous?
I don’t feel threatened by Shenonymous or anybody, and why did you jump to her defense, despite her obvious lies and fabrications and her vulgar obscene ad hominem attacks??!! Do you want to show that you are a member of the so cultured elite and that you are so progressive and with it??!! Or do you want to show off as chivalrious hero coming to rescue a “damsel in distress”.??!!
I explained to you my philosohpy about proofs in a previous post, and why didn’t you ask your beloved Shenonymous about proofs for her lies and fabrications. Do you think just writing a list of some web-sites or some books is a proof.
You accuse me of cowardice, but you who are the coward. You joined a gang against a lone fighter just to satisfy your personal needs, and in doing so supported injustices, lies and fabrications.

You don’t have to explain the concept of God to me! I am a hard core atheist and wrote about that in previous several posts.

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 17, 2010 at 11:54 am Link to this comment

FYI Nemisis, thanks for Robert G. Ingersoll’s quote, for there always seems to be the blind ignorant mantra praising religions history as the cornucopia of knowledge. 

So we hear stuff like…. the Dark ages weren’t so dark or .....the Dark Ages was a Protestant plot .... the world learned so much during the Dark Ages they should be called the age of enlightenments. 

Really pleasant to read common sense and learn some history at the same time, instead of the normal bottle fed indoctrinated emotions of the pew dwellers!

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, May 17, 2010 at 11:28 am Link to this comment

Well I am glad that you have a posse Truthdigger but unlike them I want you to elaborate on your assertions, nothing more. You claim something but do not back it up. To me that is cowardly and shows you don’t have substance, just the bluster of wind. I don’t know why you are so threatened by Shenonymous unless it is the fact that she is so well read and female. To some that is a threat. Not to me. Curious you posse seem to be interested in defending you and ignoring your problem of bald baseless assertions. (Rush to support the under dog which isn’t Shenonymous it seems.) That is your biggest flaw here. A truth digger you are not. That takes work and you have shown a consistent lack of interest in that.

Now as for religion and god(s) which is the subject here, if I must remind you, is in the brain of the beholder if not in their genome. When you say a god can do anything then the rules of the universe can be canceled. In their minds that is. No proof is sufficient because they are told not to seek it—-just believe. Even the invisible massless Dark Matter generates gravity that bends light which tells us it is there.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 17, 2010 at 11:07 am Link to this comment

OH YEAH. What happened to the chest thumping and muscle flexing you were doing just few minutes ago.
Now you are whimpering and crying “poor me” and retreating with your tail between your legs, you spineless and unprincipled piece of crap.
You enjoy a fight when you are fighting with a gang against a lone fighter and, definitely you enjoy kicking people when they are down. What a despicable specimen you are.

************************************************

Time to take your meds, TD3.

NOBODY is backing me up on the Bombing thread and I’m am taking on all comers, like that POS Nosferatu.

Poor Me?  Not in your fuckin’ life!  I just wanted Mr. Salty to know that he’s nothing but a hypocrite who only applauds people he agrees with. You really need Nematoad’s reading comprehension course.

I think you have courage, mainly because you are too locked up in your preconceptions to know you’ve come up short—again! The courage of the ignorant.

Report this

By nemesis2010, May 17, 2010 at 10:54 am Link to this comment

@  elisalouisa:

1. Religion is defined.

2. Feeling good is subjective. What makes one feel good may make another feel really bad; e.g. winning a game – losing a game.

3. Nothing just happened. The universe is approximately 13.8 – 14.5 billion years old. The earth is about 4.5 billion years old. Modern man—Homo sapiens sapiens—has been around for approximately 175-200 thousand years. By no stretch of anyone’s imagination can that be interpreted as “just happened.” The creation story in the bible is bunk. It is always argued against evolution and yet hasn’t a damned thing to do with evolution. There is no evolution in the creation story. Evolution is a scientific theory that explains the complexity and diversity of life. The origin of the universe, the origin of life, the study of the cosmos is not Darwinian evolution. The bible creation touches upon physics, astronomy, cosmology, and abiogenesis, sciences about which knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, sheep-herding, Bronze and Iron Age Hebrews (Canaanites) hadn’t a clue.

4. The very people that you believe should not be a part of the gene pool will be the ones procreating while you, and those of your mind set, are feeding worms because they see the world as it is and not as they would have it be.

When Flower Power confronts Real Power all you end up with are trampled flowers. We will have no liberty and freedom unless we are prepared to defend it to the death and for the benefit of our progeny.

Western society is afforded the luxury of all kinds on ludicrous mythological & political theories because AmeriCorp is militarily powerful and there are very brave men and women ready to defend our way of life.

George Carlin says it best:

”The first obligation of any organism is to survive. The second is to reproduce. Survival is more important than fucking. Okay? Pacifism is a nice idea, but it can get you killed. We’re not there yet folks; evolution is slow, smallpox is fast!

To learn more on how things just didn’t happen I recommend the following:

For evolution: Jerry A. Coyne’s “Why Evolution is True”

For the universe: Brian Greene’s “The Fabric of the Cosmos”

If you want to a glimpse of really far out philosophy and science and have a notion of what’s out there try reading works by Michio Kaku, e.g. “Physics of the Impossible” and “Parallel Worlds.” Science is light-years in front of the average man on the street.

” We have already compared the benefits of theology and science. When the theologian governed the world, it was covered with huts and hovels for the many, palaces and cathedrals for the few. To nearly all the children of men, reading and writing were unknown arts. The poor were clad in rags and skins - they devoured crusts, and gnawed bones. The day of Science dawned, and the luxuries of a century ago are the necessities of to-day. Men in the middle ranks of life have more of the conveniences and elegancies than the princes and kings of the theological times. But above and over all this, is the development of mind. There is more of value in the brain of an average man of to-day - of a master-mechanic, of a chemist, of a naturalist, of an inventor, than there was in the brain of the world four hundred years ago.

These blessings did not fall from the skies. These benefits did not drop from the outstretched hands of priests. They were not found in cathedrals or behind altars - neither were they searched for with holy candles. They were not discovered by the closed eyes of prayer, nor did they come in answer to superstitious supplication. They are the children of freedom, the gifts of reason, observation and experience - and for them all, man is indebted to man.”—Robert G. Ingersoll (1833-1899)

GOD’s Top Priority : Starving babies or professional sports?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm62nlHR6Wo&feature=related

Report this

By truedigger3, May 17, 2010 at 9:39 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous wrote to me:
“Having fun yet?  You have made yourself an
amusing pastime, a sporting good time.”
__________________________________________________


Shenonymous,

So you really enjoyed the amusing pastime of someone insulting you and showing the world how mean spirited miserable hag you are.
Well, more of that amusing pastime is coming your way and you gonna love it, I guarantee it.!!

Report this

By truedigger3, May 17, 2010 at 9:16 am Link to this comment

ITW wrote:

“Oh, yeah? well, maybe you should look at the bombing thread where a gang of 3 or 4 is calling me every name in the book, and inventing shit about me that I never said or claimed.

___________________________________________________

ITW,

OH YEAH. What happened to the chest thumping and muscle flexing you were doing just few minutes ago.
Now you are whimpering and crying “poor me” and retreating with your tail between your legs, you spineless and unprincipled piece of crap.
You enjoy a fight when you are fighting with a gang against a lone fighter and, definitely you enjoy kicking people when they are down. What a despicable specimen you are.

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 17, 2010 at 8:39 am Link to this comment

Credibility of most anything on the web seems substantiated by absolutists proclaiming their own biased agendas, one may find the sifting through all this most daunting.

Bias seems prolific in the form of propaganda, wee see it all the time in politics and religion like peanut butter and jam!

This is why my opinions are set in sand!

Underlying or even blatant bias is not just on the web!

Report this

By Sodium-Na, May 17, 2010 at 8:24 am Link to this comment

For Inherit The Wind,

Hay Mr.Touchy,

The phony is you who is loudly and bombastically is sitting on his ass calling every body who criticizes your shitty Israel Anti-Semite Nazi. I thought once I could initiate some kind of a dialogue for the good of Jews and Palestians.Now,I found out that you are a hopeless case.It would be a wast of time.  You have made the Anti-semite label so cheap it has no effect what so ever to deter anyone from speaking his or her mind. You are not only phony,but terribly repulsive who makes more people hate the Jews than the Nazi skin head. You are making it looks like the Jews looking for more haters and bigots. You are the honey that attract the flies. 

You once told Shenonymous to get lost using the most vulgar words imaginable-all has to do with the ass and the head. Now you ended a lap dog in her lap. Why? I tell you why: You are so fucking disperate to express your revenge against Truthdigger3 for his persistent compassion for the Palestinian and his vehement criticisms of shity Israel,the human rights violater and the war crimes criminal.

If you do not like the above go and fuck yourself in Paterson,New Jersy. You are an idiotic troll who has no idea who is truly care for Jews and who is not.I have information in my files that may shock,body boy!!!

Report this

By truedigger3, May 17, 2010 at 8:11 am Link to this comment

Re: By Sodium-Na, May 17 at 10:56 am #

Re: By elisalouisa, May 17 at 11:49 am #

Thank you.

Report this

By elisalouisa, May 17, 2010 at 7:49 am Link to this comment

Thank you Sodium-Na for taking a stand. The lack of common decency has reached a boiling point.
Standing in the background might be more prudent for such a pot might boil over, relieving the pus that surrounds the wound and sickness within.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 17, 2010 at 7:20 am Link to this comment

I simply do not like to see unfair fight,regardless of the reasons for the fight.Period. Your stand alone and holding your own ground against the four I have not seen in my adult life,since my high school days where three or four bullies ganged against a straight “A” student.
****************************************

Oh, yeah? well, maybe you should look at the bombing thread where a gang of 3 or 4 is calling me every name in the book, and inventing shit about me that I never said or claimed.

Or are you just one of those phonies who stands up for the “rights” of people you agree with, and nobody else?

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 17, 2010 at 7:12 am Link to this comment

Weefeller,
You are STILL not funny. Try harder!!

********************************************

He’s right Leefeller! You cannot TOP TD3 when it comes to being funny, in fact hilarious!  Of course it’s unintentional on TD3’s part—the guy who came to an intellectual gunfight with a slingshot!

Report this
JDmysticDJ's avatar

By JDmysticDJ, May 17, 2010 at 7:01 am Link to this comment

The claims of deaths caused by religion, atheism, and by coalitions of the two, real and imagined, are for me, unverifiable. I simply lack the time, and necessary research skills to make these claims definitive. I suppose, if I were to devote a few months of my spare time to studying the issue, I would only find conflicting claims, which would only lead me to further research requiring gaining expertise in several languages, and critical analysis of bias identification.

Some of the claims made on this thread seem to defy logic, and are revelations that I have never heard before. For example:

“… 23 million Yezidis (Kurds) have been killed by Moslems and their other self-proclaimed enemies during the past 700 years.  According to Bill Warner,” “Around 60 million
Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest. Half of the
glorious Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus killed.
The first Western Buddhists were the Greeks descended from Alexander
the Great’s army in what is now Afghanistan. Jihad destroyed all of
Buddhism along the silk route. About 10 million Buddhists died. The
conquest of Buddhism is the practical result of pacifism. Zoroastrianism
was eliminated from Persia. The Jews became permanent dhimmis
throughout Islam. In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists
have died over the last 1400 years of jihad. Approximately 270 million
nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the glory of political
Islam. These are the Tears of Jihad which are not taught in any school.”

Perhaps the reason I’ve never heard these claims before is because they, “…are not taught in any school.” I have done some limited research on the www., but I was unable to verify these claims; if anyone can direct me to verification on the www. It would be greatly appreciated.

Even the claims made for the 20th century, vary widely from low to high estimates, and many claims from this period seem to be suspect and unverifiable. For example: John Stockwell, the former C.I.A. station chief in Angola has claimed the C.I.A. is responsible for the deaths of 100 million, and Solzhenitsyn has claimed that 66 million were executed by Jewish Bolshevists, and others, in the Soviet Union. I’ve heard a supposedly credible left wing radio personality claim that Mao killed 70 million in a “Death March.”

My one time Astronomy Professor once made the comment that, “Ignorance is sin.” Lacking the necessary expertise, time, and ambition for further investigation, I guess I’ll have to submit to my sinful nature.

Because of my ignorance, I personally, am granting amnesty for all real and imagined historical deaths, caused by religions, atheists, and coalitions of the two, and I will be concentrating on the very real realities of recent/current events.

Report this

By Sodium-Na, May 17, 2010 at 6:56 am Link to this comment

For Truedigger3,

Truedigger3,

I must tell you that you have earned my profound respect for holding your own ground against the four apple polishers who polish apples for one another. One tough blogger called them once,“THE Boiler ROOM CLUB”

Help is coming to your side,exactly as I once came to the aid of Shenonymous against a great blogger by the name of Douglas Chambler who not only posted on TD but world wide.He was making a shamble of her. She implored for my intervention. I intervened and saved her ars from his wrath. As a result,I lost the positive and constructive exchanges with Douglas. I truly regret that. He and I just got along splendidly,although we disagreed on some issues.

If they think that the EVIL PITCH “had wiped the floor with you”,I had/have got news for them: Your valiant stand against all four had/has made you the one who had/has already “wiped the floor with all of them”.I will come to your side soon.I simply do not like to see unfair fight,regardless of the reasons for the fight.Period. Your stand alone and holding your own ground against the four I have not seen in my adult life,since my high school days where three or four bullies ganged against a straight “A” student. Keep holding your ground and you will prevail,regardless of the odds. I will make it a fairer fight because I know too much about the “EVIL PITCH”. Once we were “FRIENDS???”.Do you believe that??? I keep wondering how foolish I was when I allowed her to impose her PHONY friendship on me!!!!!

After I finish helping my wife,I will come back to your side. Most likely within the next 24-30 hours.

I am going to make a shamble out of her and any body who meekly comes to her aid. We will see.

ENOUGH BULSHIT IS ENOUGH SINCE THE “EVIL PITCH” ALWAYS ALWAYS DEVIATES FROM TOPIC OF THE FORM TO PARADE HER PHONY AND TRASHY KNOWLEDGE SHE COLLECTS FROM TRASHY WEBSITES AND SHE CALLS RESEARCH!!!!!!

Report this

By Warsong, May 17, 2010 at 5:50 am Link to this comment

Incidentally, She, your ‘style’ reminds me of a ‘great lady’ I once knew online, who had a list of synchronicities linking her family and mine (not to mention the two of us), including that her Great-Grandfather and mine were Fence Neighbors in central Texas. Her Great-Grandfather was the largest landowner in a little town east of Killeen, Texas (35 or 40,000 acres), and, my Great-Grandfather was the largest landowner in Killeen (one acre short of a million, Ft. Hood now rests on part of it).

However, she never struck me as a feminist, and, I don’t recall ever discussing philosophy with her: just, among other things, a Round Bed with a 360 degree Red Velvet Headboard, and, UFO’s.

Report this

By Warsong, May 17, 2010 at 5:21 am Link to this comment

Thanks, She,

I just wasn’t sure who you were referencing, and, I suspect there are those that would wish me gone. But, just in case, I rushed into the Restroom, locked myself in a Stall, and, checked to see if my Under-Oder Disarmament had failed (re-...ach, durn, what was her name…ah, Phyllis Diller).

Ciao

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 17, 2010 at 5:01 am Link to this comment

My dear comrade, ITW, you are a wrecking ball!... with class.
TD3 is calling a few of us a contingent.  There is only one Contingent
on Truthdig and we know who they are.  I prefer the name ThomasG
gave us, The Blah Boiler Room Posse.  It had a poetic ring to it.  Well
TG did try to call us a contingent but that would be too confusing. 
We are too loose a group to be a contingent, which is a united
subgroup of a larger group. We are hardly unified except in our
rationality.  We are a band of loners.  We could now be called The
From-Time-to-Time-in-Agreement Assortment, which is a little long
but it is stylish.  Wouldn’t The Assortment (for short) include such
disparate characters as Leefeller, OzarkMichael, Night-Gaunt, yourself
and myself?  Did I forget anyone?  What a motley crew.  An odd
grouping to be sure each of us with our very different perspectives who
just as occasionally are in Disagreement.  It is the result of a weird and
perverted logic of some who haunt the electronic halls of Truthdig.

truedigger3, you are presenting yourself like a tilted windmill
that is creating a lot of useless hot air.  Your superventillation must be
dangerous for your health.  Sitting at your computer day in and day out
has obviously had a rotting effect on your housebound perverted brain. 
It is easily seen why you can’t take a hike.  You do know don’t you that
you are a majority of…one!?  It must be frustrating not to have a
contingent of your own.  But since you can’t speak well about anything,
you don’t really matter.  Having fun yet?  You have made yourself an
amusing pastime, a sporting good time.  Let’s see, have you had your
daily glass of alkaline?  Please be careful where you sputter.

Warsong, oh no, you are not the one who has deserted the TD
forums who couldn’t stand the heat!  It is another adversary and I don’t
consider you as “one of those!”  Sorry, I seem to attract haters like flies
to honey.  I really am a sweet approaching-the-realm-of-older-women
woman who just doesn’t take a nanosecond of browbeating from thugs. 
You know, one of those champions of battered women.  You don’t
strike me as a thug at all (no pun intended). Be careful though, you
could be thrown into The Assortment, but if you don’t mind, you would
be welcomed.  Loved your account of Urantia.  A real hoot.  There is
much more to talk about on that subject. But later, academia calls.

Report this

By truedigger3, May 17, 2010 at 4:57 am Link to this comment

Re: By Warsong, May 17 at 5:21 am #


Shenonymous, ITW, Weefeller and Night-Gaunt,

Read and enjoy.!!

Report this

By AnarchoRationalist, May 17, 2010 at 2:11 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Just wanted to point out that “unfettered capitalism” would probably create the solution to the problem of moral guidance.

Free-market economic thought suggests that the pursuit of individual interests, either in terms of profit, well-being, happiness, social justice, whatever terms either material or spiritual you wish, will inevitably both integrate society, and civilize it through voluntarism, and mutually respectful social interactions.

Basically, in order for people to develop the emotional and economic space to become concerned with morality, you must have ample access to resources, and you cannot generate ample resources, except through emergent economic activity, or a “free-market”.

“Food is the first thing, morals follow on”

Report this

By Warsong, May 17, 2010 at 1:21 am Link to this comment

She:

If you’re talking about me (dropping out), you’re mistaken, I’m just one of those Taxpayers that give Socialists heartburn while they’re digging in the taxpayers pockets. This is not my Computer, and, I can’t hang around forums all night (after work) waiting for a reply to jump on...I have to sleep so I can be up early for work.

Tennessee Socialist:

Strangely, you keep referring to the Bible, but, what I’m reading seems to be straight out of “The Book of Urantia” (Urantia = Earth). Beginning on Page 808 it describes a Socialist Utopia “...on a Planet in a nearby Galaxy” (Sagittarius Dwarf?). You would fall in love with this society, and, though I find the rest of the book immensely interesting, I find the Utopia disturbing in many ways.

Incidentally, the book describes a form of “Directed Evolution” that is more than logical, and, explains many of the things I’ve found curious in “History before the memory of Man,” while leaving many historical, documentable facts unaddressed.

It’s impossible to walk the banks of the Al Furat (Euphrates) in either Syria or Iraq without feeling 500,000 years of history thrumming beneath your feet.

Just thinking…I’m wondering how many here know that our Solar System did not originally belong to the Milky Way Galaxy? In fact, about 2 billion years ago it was ripped away from the Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy that the Milky Way is slowly dismantling. Personally, I think many of the catastrophic events that ‘changed the world’ (Asteroid Strikes, etc) may have occurred as the Solar System passed through the outter edge of the Sagittarius Dwarf, once each Sidereal Year (approx. 26,000 years).

If you decide to go read “The Book of Urantia,” make sure you have a Dictionary standing by in another Window. Even then, many words in it have no real meaning to us, nor, are they even cleary understood by the ‘Celestial Authors’ of the various Chapters. I didn’t need a Dictionary, except on words of that type, and, they’re not in Dictionaries. Expect to take at least three years in the reading, even if you read as fast as I do (small edition = 2007 pages, 10 Pt Font, on paper as thin as a Bible).

You’re right, Jesus was a Socialist, but, that was not the thrust of his Ministry in that bestowal (Incarnation…it was the 7th, of seven lives, in His first Cycle of 7 Cycles of seven lives that He will have to live before He is finished with this Earth. God does everything in 7’s, and, each Cycle takes approximately 2,000 years). If Jesus walks the Earth, today, concluding the Seventh Life of His Second Cycle, He will have Five Cyces left to live (35 Incarnations, having completed 14), or, about 10,000 more years before He is finished.

Ah…Incidentally, again, the real name of Jesus is Michael of Nebadon, Creator God of this Universe (the Son is the Father, as the Father is the Son…they are one).

Report this

By golflouis, May 16, 2010 at 11:48 pm Link to this comment

Thank’s to Tennessee-S for the tip on Michael Parenti; after listenning to the first mp3(around 60 minutes) file where he makes us understand the clear difference between the “Government” elected and the immovable “State” i had flashes from numerous movies..like “Missing"relating CIA’s unfamous Condor operation in Chile or “Z” from Costa Gavras during Colonels’ Greece.
Obviously as it seems,one more time risking a cliché i’d say reality outdo fiction when organised human hypocrisy is erected in system.

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, May 16, 2010 at 11:28 pm Link to this comment

Tennessee-Socialist, May 17 at 1:09 am,

Protecting ones nation from being destroyed from within is actually a form of self defense fighting, like defending one’s home or one’s person; it’s honorable.

Report this
Tennessee-Socialist's avatar

By Tennessee-Socialist, May 16, 2010 at 9:09 pm Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt: What’s so evil about a revolution?  Can you tell me another way to get rid of a fascist oppressive regimen like Adolf Hitler, US oligarchic government or Pinochet?  I mean you are too naive if you think that the US 5% Oligarchy which owns 90% of US wealth will trickle down the wealth to all americans thru elections, thru reforms in air conditioned rooms, peacefully and diplomatically.

Wake up, the world is not like you think, don’t reject fighting, i don’t understand why do you hate fighting. Figthing is not immoral, is not illegal and its not a crime. The history of mankind is a history of mankind fighting for its survival and its interests

So fight for your rights !

Oh by the way, 21st century revolutions don’t really have to be bloody. Look at the Venezuelan Revolution, the Bolivian Revolution, The Ecuador Revolution.  In those countries there are true radical revolutions without blood.  Electoral-revolutions. So i guess that there is hope for a revolution in USA without violence

.

Report this

By truedigger3, May 16, 2010 at 8:57 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous wrote:
“How dare you attack my person and then put rules on how I should respond? That I cannot characterize you as a pervert?”
________________________________________________

Shenonymous,

And how dare you call me a pervert, then you and the “other contingent” scream bloody mary, jumping up and down hollering when I responded by calling you an ugly hag.??!!
I take that back, you are not an ugly hag, but you are a miserable frustrated neurotic ugly hag.

ITW,
Did you read that, our resident idiot in chief, and leader of the other contingent??!!

Night-Gaunt,

Did you read that, our resident psychoanalyst?!.
People go through all kind of tests and personal interviews to get psychologically evaluated or diagnosed, and even then, many times, the results are not conclusive and there are disputes and disagreements between qualified experts about the meaning of the final results.!
But here, we are having couple of clowns, who are analysing and diagnosing people on the basis of reading few internet posts??!! How arrogant, stupid and dumb is that???!!!

Weefeller,
You are STILL not funny. Try harder!!

Report this
Tennessee-Socialist's avatar

By Tennessee-Socialist, May 16, 2010 at 8:08 pm Link to this comment

HEY YOU ALL GO TO THIS LINK AND LISTEN TO THESE GREAT SPEECHES BY MICHAEL PARENTI ABOUT THE TRUTHS OF US HISTORY, US FOUNDING FATHERS AND US GOVERNMENT

http://www.takeoverworld.info/parenti_talks.html


Michael Parenti packs so much knowledge and insight into a small space it’s astounding.  This is not taught in school or anywhere else.  Just like in personal or business relationships, IF YOU DON’T KNOW REAL HISTORY, YOU WILL BELIEVE ANYTHING!  This is NOT some boring history lesson.
What I especially like about Parenti is his explanations are strikingly obvious and transparent, not mysterious and complex.

If you ask yourself “why does the government do this to us citizens?” and “how could those politicians be so stoopid?” and “how can so many people believe this media disinformation and propaganda?”  Dr. Parenti will open your eyes.

The three most fiery of Parenti’s talks, the difference between “government” (form) and the “National Security State” (substance), including all the Intelligence agencies and the Pentagon.  Parenti describes RATIONAL Functions of Fascism, beyond Hitler’s “theatrics” with “Blood and Soil” and other occult schtick.

(Alex Jones refers to “the Illuminati” as an Intelligence organization, which is what the Nazi SS was and what the CIA is.  But in typical “John Birch Society” worldview, he calls this “communism”.)

Michael Parenti was a devout anti-Communist as a child, like most Americans.  He gradually got involved in protests against US policy in Vietnam.  After getting beaten up and almost killed by police, he naïvely noticed that police were protecting the establishment but not Americans’ hallowed First Amendment rights.  He was also railroaded out of his college professorship for free speech and railroaded in court.  He began thinking about class bias, because the police were defending the ruling class policies. The Constitution did not apply, when it comes to normal people.

Friends told Michael his observations about the economic-political-power relationships, and “who benefits?”, were “Marxist questions” or a “radical analysis” of “root causes”.  “Radical” means “root”.

When you wonder WHY things are the way they are, why there are drastic power and wealth disparities in a supposedly classless society, why billionaire elites control govt, commerce, and media, to serve their interests, and you point out the dirty deeds they DO to maintain and consolidate power and wealth, that’s “Marxist”.

Michael then discovered Das Kapital, by Karl Marx which critically examined Capitalism, and where it was headed in the future.  If you know someone who’s been unemployed or underemployed so long they have just given up, while Wall Street and DC says “there’s still some slack in the labor market” as they said on 07-02-04, in other words “workers are still insufficiently beaten back”, and you ask yourself “what’s wrong with this picture”, you’re already on the same page.  Slavery is complete ownership of a human being.  Capitalism is “time-share” ownership of human labor, all the benefits, none of the costs

.

Report this

By golflouis, May 16, 2010 at 7:22 pm Link to this comment

I observe an uncommon knowledge of your “humanities” Shenonymous,anybody would be flattered for having his modest thoughts associated in any ways to those of Ralf Waldo Emerson,a philanthropist and social progressist ahead of his time if there is one;After reading some of his works a few years ago,i stopped shortly after only to realise that we shared the same opinion on so many subjects that carrying on the readings would be sort of consciously indulging myself.
Even as ex-military person myself,one have to denounce conformism as the worst poison for society and for any human being individually fot it kills any spark of creation in the life of the infected.The damage does not stop only there either for it jeopardizes social and individual liberties as well..remember the spanish civil war and the exodus of nearly all talented artists from Spain. Amazing how much the fear of loosing or sharing material possesions or powers of a minority can crystalise the life of so many other human beings.

All the best,golflouis

p.s. i do agree with you that some inflamed comments distract the flow and bring only bitterness to the actors.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 16, 2010 at 5:06 pm Link to this comment

I used to insist that TD3 was the dumbest of “The Contingent”.

I’m force to re-assess that and, I must say, if it’s not true, he’s in contention!

Here’s the acid test: He doesn’t find LeeFeller funny.  Neither does Robert.

I rest my case.


She,
We are in the “same church” but different pews. I’m not defending YOU per se—I fully acknowledge that, like me, you are about as well-armed against obnoxious attacks from the crazy left and nutty right as one can be.

Yet despite Idiot3’s contentions that he’s in favor of equal rights, he uses age-old ways to attack a woman (you, in this case) with stupid, mean, teenager insults.  Sure, you laugh them off—and rip him a new one every time.  But it’s my goal to make EVERYONE on see TD see what you and I see.  You are just a little more stylish about it than me, and I prefer the wrecking ball technique!

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 16, 2010 at 4:51 pm Link to this comment

Just in from a day’s here and there getting ready for the week,
coming into finals weeks.  About four more including reading
and grading.  It will be an intense winding down.  Summer does
look delicious. 

Now see here truedigger3, you are required to be more specific
on what I may or may not have said years ago, and your memory may
not be correct, as that is not my kind of idiom, although I do know
some whose it is.  I won’t say who, as they are not commenting much
these days and I don’t talk about others when they cannot defend
themselves.  Nevertheless, it is you who needs to face reality as I amply
showed in the historical account on this very thread what a blowhard
name-caller you are.  Yes life is too short and it is you who must find
peace.  Me, I’m indomitable and unsinkable.  Right is right and you are
wrong. It is easily seen that you cannot give an inch since you are
already only an inch from being buried.  I have locked horns with
several windbag egotists such as yourself who thinks they can ambush
me with no reprisal.  As you have acutely discovered. 

Your point about the species of name-calling that is the “accepted
practice” of referring to mental deficiencies of someone you disagree
with is about the stupidest logic I’ve seen here, and to refrain from
references to body parts or orifices or use obscene and vulgar words, is
plainly just as stupid.  What are you some infantile thumbsucking
baby?  And you go whining to Night-Gaunt!?  uh…who is the “we” to
which you are referring, anyway?  You and who else?  Your imaginary
compadres?  And you just admitted to bashing me first!  You feign
adulthood!  You are really just more shocked that a woman can knock
you up side the head than any language She might use.  How dare you
attack my person and then put rules on how I should respond? That I
cannot characterize you as a pervert?  Your menu of name-calling
shows that you are!  You are the most ridiculous individual I have
encountered on any of these forums save for one who has obviously
taken a powder because the heat was just too much for him as well. 
You might seriously consider the same retreat. 

Night-Gaunt is probably one of the clearest observer of the
entire Truthdig scene and he has characterized you perfectly.  But then
you have potshotted at him as well.  He has felt your sting.  It is your
MO.  Too bad if you don’t like my vulgar responses.  That side of me
does not come out unless it is unleashed by mindless flaming trolls
who goes gunning for Shenonymous.  Evidence is right here on this
forum!  I have recorded it for all to see.  More educated than you can
imagine, She can be either a worthy intellectual or the nastiest
respondent you ever encountered.  You choose which She will be. 

Your comment golflouis is keen and argument is in the spirit of
Emerson’s self-reliance.  Your discriminating what Hedges was talking
about the nonconformist I think was circumspect.  Colin Wilson
describes the type as Outsiders but he goes into an analysis of this
kind of personality in depth. 

Nietz, Kant and Spinoza had some timeless ideas as did all those on
whose shoulders they stood, but you are I think correct that they lived
in a much different world, just as Plato was a thousand and a half years
prior to them.  Universal ideas do not get old.  It is human
interpretation that changes as social dynamics change.  It is the same
with the notion of truth.  But optimistically, the common man is
becoming much more educated, much more able to summon
commonsense that is more informed than ever in human history, and
are beginning to even think more in the abstract to gain an overarching
view of the human condition which is where unemotional detached
judgment can happen.  I think they still have a long way to go before
real critical thinking is in their grasp but they do have more pauses to
think these days.

Report this

By truedigger3, May 16, 2010 at 4:08 pm Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt wrot:
“More like trash talk than an insult. So to your delicate sensebilites the use of “ass” is naughty?
_________________________________________________

N-G,

Okay, fine and dandy, but is being called “a home bound pervert”, is “more like trash talk”, as you put it???!!.
Pleeeehze, give me a break.!!!

Report this

By truedigger3, May 16, 2010 at 3:46 pm Link to this comment

Re:By Night-Gaunt, May 16 at 4:15 pm #


Night-Gaunt,

It seems you have something in common with Shenonymous. Both of you are very strong in philosophy and abstract logic but weak on current events and history and simple commonsense of tying everthing together.  Whether you are pretending or sincere, I am not sure.
Asking always for “proof”, is a trite cop-out.
Opinions are formulated depending on life experiences, readings, comparative commonsense, associations and sometimes being close to events or having special knowledge.  Presenting a book or web-site as a proof, sometimes, is very dumb because there is a lot of bullshitting in books and web-sites.
Do you want me to steal documents???!!!!
It baffles me that you have the audacity of following Shenonymous steps and issuing a psychological evaluation of me, just from my posts. You are really bold and presumptious!!.
I say to you and to Shenonymous: Physician heal thyself.!!

Report this

By golflouis, May 16, 2010 at 3:39 pm Link to this comment

One has to grab the huge difference between moral order and civil order, because if you don’t have the first one you hardly get the other;we have a perfect example of this in Bangkok these days.In most countries of the western world we saw the need to democratize the police forces,paying them good salaries,to get rid of most “petty corruption” that kills the sentiment of justice in the general population;that,was a big step forward towards moral order…depriving the rich from using police for selfish immoral goals or simply enhance their individual power trip.We obviously understood that Mr.Hedges in his article was talking of an other kind of individualism when he said:
“Those who championed this radical individualism, from Confucius to Socrates to Jesus, fostered not obedience and conformity, but dissent and self-criticism.”
This kind of radical individualism is possible only when you free yourself from the traditional conventions,those that plague rigid and fascist societies where small groups control and dictate the way to go subtly or not to the majority;with the new world of “flash” communications,here is the “global village” Mcluhan so brilliantly stated,and with this, many once sacro-saint “infaillible” institutions like the catholic church are shaken to their roots;few places to hide for the immorals these days and the “disorder” has shifted from inept egomaniac minds and reflects itself in the medias and the sreets,shambles seem awaiting the hypocrites.
As for Nietzsche,Kant or Spinoza…with all due respect,a huge amount of water ran under the bridge since a hundred years and people these days, we must admit, are not running for gurus or intellectual dictates as fast as before.
Why not dig individually our own trench to find the truth instead of jumping in the trench dug by any famous others and sit there,second hand redemption is not what we wanted to avoid in the first place?

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, May 16, 2010 at 3:22 pm Link to this comment

The thing is Truthdigger you still haven’t backed up your initial claim and continue to. I have noticed that it is Shenonymous who is attacked first then she responds. Though since you don’t have specifics on what lead to her response “wipe the floor with your ass” as being obscene is funny. More like trash talk than an insult. So to your delicate sensebilites the use of “ass” is naughty?

You still don’t get it. Just saying something without at least copy-paste what the offending item is then showing where it is wrong or fabricated makes you a laughing stock and a flame troll.

Ever debated? In the real world of debate you can’t just say something is without some back up. You just don’t have it. You fail or as I see it a grade of “-F” for failure to prove your point. Spend a little time, Shenonymous obviously does and she does wipe the floor with you on that. It is called due diligence. You just don’t do the work. Lazy in other words. So do the work. Right now you have no legs to stand on.

Report this

By truedigger3, May 16, 2010 at 2:55 pm Link to this comment

Re:By Leefeller, May 16 at 2:15 pm #

You are STILL not funny.!!

Report this

By truedigger3, May 16, 2010 at 2:46 pm Link to this comment

Re:By Shenonymous, May 16 at 2:29 pm #


Shenonymous,

Here in truthdig, many times after heated discussions, sometimes, we call each other liars , ibmbeciles, idiots, bullshitters etc etc… but we never mention body parts or orifices or use obscene and vulgar words which almost, invariably, everytime, you are the first to use.
Yes, I attacked you first by calling you a liar, fabricator and dishonest which you are, and you reponded by calling me “a house bound pervert”, whatever that means!!!
As a matter of fact, my first encounter with obscene language here in truthdig was with you, about 2.5 years ago, when after heated discussion, I don’t remember about what, you said that you will “wipe the floor with my ass!!”, which was an unexpected shocker to me.
Face it Shenonymous, I am not the first one you lock horns with. You have a long history of serial locking horns with bloggors here in truthdig and hurling obscenities and foul language at them.
Why don’t you give it a rest? Life is too short for that nonsense of yours.

Report this

By golflouis, May 16, 2010 at 1:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

One has to grab the huge difference between moral order and civil order, because if you don’t have the first one you hardly get the other;we have a perfect example of this in Bangkok these days.In most countries of the western world we saw the need to democratize the police forces,paying them good salaries,to get rid of most “petty corruption” that kills the sentiment of justice in the general population;that,was a big step forward towards moral order…depriving the rich from using police for selfish immoral goals or simply enhance their individual power trip.We obviously understood that Mr.Hedges in his article was talking of an other kind of individualism when he said:
“Those who championed this radical individualism, from Confucius to Socrates to Jesus, fostered not obedience and conformity, but dissent and self-criticism.”
This kind of radical individualism is possible only when you free yourself from the traditional conventions,those that plague rigid and fascist societies where small groups control and dictate the way to go subtely or not to the majority;with the new world of “flash” communications,here is the “global village” Mcluhan so brilliantly stated,and with this, many once sacro-saint “infaillible” institutions like the catholic church are shaken to their roots;few places to hide for the immorals these days and the “disorder” has shifted from inept egomaniac minds and reflects itself in the medias and the sreets,shambles seem awaiting the hipocrites.
As for Nietzsche,Kant or Spinoza…with all due respect,a huge amount of water ran under the bridge since a hundred years and people these days, we must admit, are not running for gurus or intellectual dictates as fast as before.
Why not dig individually our own trench to find the truth instead of jumping in the trench digged by any famous others and sit there,second hand redemption is not what we wanted to avoid in the first place?

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, May 16, 2010 at 1:13 pm Link to this comment

A recent CGI movie on “Chicken Little” portrayed her as a him. So that may be the cause of the confusion and the balls of it all fallderall. Oh that damn Disney take on old stories. Remember what they did to the “Little Mermaid” or fairies? Aarg!

Isn’t “Chicken Little” just a different version of “Peter and the Wolf?”

TNTWM

Report this
Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, May 16, 2010 at 12:15 pm Link to this comment

Most of our Founders were Christian of the we are civilized (as they defined it) and therefor superior to the autocthons who dwelled here in their millions before undocumented, infectious and armed immigrants came to these shores in the 16th & 17th centuries. Suffice it to say they couldn’t live up to the true meanings of their words in the Bill of Rights. We can and have done somewhat better. We can do better still. Manifest Destiny wasn’t only a slogan to get people to move inland but a religious and imperial idea for motivation of said people. Christianity has nothing against slavery or genocide if done in the “right” way. Slaves will go to Heaven and serve their masters there. Big whoop!

I have no interest getting into a flame war with Truthdigger(sic) I just want him/her to get some facts on the table not epithets. I don’t think that is asking or demanding too much. Considering he/she can’t even take on Shenonymous</b> which is quite a giant indeed here he/she casts aspersions like cannon shots to others too? Even a genius can get into trouble dealing with too many other minds coming at him/her at once. I don’t know precisely what is motivating you Truthdigger but I can give you my opinion and it won’t be any more heartening that Shenonymous’ own. No doubt I too have been analyzed, sometimes on a forum, but that is the price one pays for speaking ones mind. Just don’t take it personally and move on unless it is a valid criticism. The perils of a fragile ego! A necessary beast that must be carefully fed and restrained to have a proper functioning person.

I for one do not want any kind of a violent revolution here. So Tennessee-Socialist needs to get off of his war wagon unless he advocates blood in the streets. It just may be his own caught in the cross fire, and mine and for what?

Depending on what parts of the Bible you read it can support full non-violence and hiding away to pray. In other parts militarism, torture and holy war are there to be done by the righteous among them. All in JHVH’s name aud nausem. Or for some of them a more Aryan kind of Lord of Lords.

Yes rancor was a poison in Nietzsche‘s gut that hurt him. Would hurt anyone no matter how brilliant as we amply see on this forum and others. He kept his sex life a secret from what I have found so far. He did have at least one relationship with a woman. He obviously wanted to be closer to the fabled ubermensch he so wanted to supplant humanity that he found so lost from themselves. But how often to we live up to our ideals and conceptions?

Unlike Nietzsche I do everything I can do to not have hate for anyone. It is that bile that is to me unhealthy and would be such a good improvement for us should it ever come about among the billions on this planet. Evolution may not be so accommodating if the present general form of humanity works the best in this case. (Our spectrum of our abilities and temprements make it so.) It doesn’t leave out our own possible tinkering with the genome.

Report this
Tennessee-Socialist's avatar

By Tennessee-Socialist, May 16, 2010 at 11:39 am Link to this comment

The richest 1% have entirely? too much wealth and power. America has always been the rich trying to mantain their status by keeping everyone else down. The genius of America is that they manage to do it while convincing everyone else that they are really free. Americans are not free. Capitalism inherently leads to a very small super rich minority with all the power and a huge poverty stricken majority with nothing. Close study of American history clearly shows this to be true.

.

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 16, 2010 at 11:35 am Link to this comment

Well, Tennessee-Socialist, you finally presented a good
argument, I actually appreciate it.  I am impressed even if you
don’t care if I do.  At first glance, I do not agree with it and I
will take the time to reply, but I must be off right now to do
some errands that must be attended to.  But I wanted to say
that you have provided some meat with the former mash potatoes!
Something one can stick a fork into cut it up and and actually chew on.

Sorry but I have to make a correction, not meaning to rain on anyone’s
parade, even a chicken’s.  Chicken Little is a female hen, who thought
the sky was falling.  It is true she does not have any chicken balls, and
would be horrified to discover that she might.  So the Chicken Little
Award might not be such a good award to receive.  Let us instead offer
the Big Chicken Award, who does have chicken balls, cause he is a
rooster.  Well they are not noticeable being that they are located up
inside his rectal area, being part of the entrails that are thrown out at
cooking time.  It is where the male fowl produces sperm.  It does
produce sperm you know.  How else do you think chicken eggs get
fertilized to produce more chickens!  You all might take a course in
chicken biology.  And a geography course in rock falling

Report this
Tennessee-Socialist's avatar

By Tennessee-Socialist, May 16, 2010 at 11:21 am Link to this comment

I am a christian and that’s why i am socialist.  The capitalist system is totally contrary to the teachings of Jesus. The capitalist system i believe is the Babylon System and many people worship under her and we are admonished to get out and bring others out, Republicans and Democrats.

If you are truly to get out of Babylon, you need to repent of misplaced faith in this false god and the havoc that the ungodly antichrist capitalist system has created around in the USA through your voting habits

I believe that there are basic political views found in the early church that hold to a communist system and finds its antithesis in the self interest materialism inherent in Capitalism.

I find capitalism antagonist to the cause of Christ and end-time social justice, especially found in the delusions of the Capitalist Fake-Christian Churches in USA. I approach the Bible as a believer. I don’t go to churches, because i see most christian churches in USA as being quite disconnected from each other because of individualist nature of the capitalist system

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 16, 2010 at 11:17 am Link to this comment

You act like you are crazy, but I don’t know if you are or not,
Tennessee-Socialist.  Appearances are everything, don’t you
know that?  However, you are a liar and do not provide any evidence
of your vicious criticisms of the country that I care about.  And you
spend way too much time deifying Shenonymous.  Gad there is
getting to be a crowd of worshippers at my temple. 

Do you imagine that anybody is reading your posts?  I see them then
after having read one or two of your insipid diatribes, glaze right on by
as I suspect does everybody else.  Has anyone actually responded to
any of your posts except me a few times in incredulity of what you have
said.  You are like a comic book cartoon.  You just don’t realize your
thinking is a relic of a failed past ideology.  If you want to bring
socialism to America, read MarthA’s posts. At least she offers
cogent and coherent arguments.

Report this
Tennessee-Socialist's avatar

By Tennessee-Socialist, May 16, 2010 at 10:57 am Link to this comment

HEY YOU ALL SHENONYMOUS IS A GOVERNMENT-SHILL, EVERY TIME I TALK AGAINST THE “WONDERFUL” US FOUNDING FATHERS WHO KILLED MILLIONS OF NATIVE-AMERICAN INDIANS ACCORDING TO THE BOOK “AN AMERICAN HOLOCAUST” SHE SAYS I AM CRAZY.

EVERY TIME I SAY THAT USA HAS ALWAYS BEEN A SATANIC-EMPIRE SHE SAYS I AM CRAZY !!

EVERY TIME I SAY THAT CAPITALISM IS LEGALIZED-ROBBERY SHE SAYS I AM CRAZY


.

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 16, 2010 at 10:29 am Link to this comment

The expose of a Namecaller
Not jumping into the fray until Page 2 of this forun, my first post was
May 10 at 5:56pm, then 7:20pm, no mention so far of trudigger3, May
11, at 4:04 am made no menton of truedigger3.  He chimes in May 11
at 8:36am no mention of Shenonymous.  And again at 8:48am.  She at
9:27am, no mention.  But She does direct a comment to ITW at
11:09am, then comments again at 11:14am.  Again as 12:07pm with
no comment to or about truedigger3., also at 1:24pm, at 6:53pm a
comment about cosmology to ITW, truedigger3 not mentioned in the
least respect. At May12 2:57am She give apology to ITW for mistaking
him as a Pascal Wagerer, truedigger3 not mentioned. But truedigger3
does show up at 7:13am to complain about TD’s advertising practices. 
At 10:00Am May 12, She speaks to ITW and Leefeller, nothing to
truedigger3. Again at 10:24am in two parts not directed really at
anyone with a slight hello to Leefeller about Norsemen atheists.  She
speakes again to no one in particular at 12:08pm, but a remark to
Leefeller at 12:12, and at 1:05pm remarks directed at felicity, Leefeller,
and DJmysdticDJ.  At 1”27[, a waxing comment directed at no one
except maybe Samuel Beckett???  At 1:59pm She speaks to balkas only. 
At 3:53pm truedigger3 shows up with a remark to warsong, calling him
nonsensical and senile, Ahem…At 4:22pm She speaks to no one in
particular about wisdom.  Truedigger speaks at 4:27 without providing
any sources for his own pronouncements to Iftekhar as if iIftekhar does
not know what he/she is talking about.  She speaks again at 5:06pm to
frank1569 with no reference to truedigger3. Is back again at 5:21pm in
reply to balkas.  But now, truedigger3 at 5:06pm starts his attack
against Shenonymous with a compliment on one hand and an attack on
the other. Cute way of starting his descent into namecalling. At 6:32pm
She replies to truedigger3 with much respect and absolutely no
namecalling but offering a reason why he perceives me the way he
does as having a preconceived bias (recalling his usual criticisms of me
on all other forums where we both show up).  truedigger3 remarks at
8:38pm accusing She of large errors, which is all right, no name calling
there, whereupon at 9:24pm She responds asking for truedigger to
show the large errors I made and absolutely no namecalling nor even a
smell of it.  That is really a very fine post by me if I have to say so
myself.  Even providing some beautiful Middle Eastern music! (Which is
something I frequently do, provide music, never by anyone else!)  Oh
well…to continue.  At May 13 2:11am She remarks to Outragedtoo, no
comment to truedigger3.  At 2:12am She replies to indirectly to Sodium
na, it was obvious as I copied and pasted his entire previous comment
to me.  No remark to truedigger3.  At 9:09am truedigger directs a
comment at me defending against a comment I made at 2:11 to
Outragedtoo about commodities maketplace and the Middle eastern
countries that are doing “better than fine.”He seems to have taken
exception to that remark and exaggerates that I forgot the Jews in my
report calling me “dishonest.”  That is a namecalling.  Seeing my
apparent omission, I explain that in my reply to Sodium na’s second
Islamist defensive comment to me and to truedigger3 my explanation
of why I omitted the Jews without calling truedigger or Sodium na a
name but implying that the latter is unmannerly in his attack on me
(which I called harpooning, and which he was unable to fathom). 

However at 12:09pm is when truedigger3 shows his namecalling colors,
calling me a screamer and flailer and as me calling and hurling all kind
of accusations without so much as saying where I did that, and then
that I should take a hike while at the same time name-calling warsong, 
without any provocation from him, an idiot.

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 16, 2010 at 10:28 am Link to this comment

Does he tip his hand at namecalling or not?  Yup, 5 Yups.  Do see
my reaction at 1:53pm where I call him out and beginning my
counterattack, saying he shows a chicken-livered cast of character in
his ‘allergic reaction to reality,” and being a ”blog flamer.”  What is
interesting is Night-Gaunt at 2:47pm does complain that truedigger3
does not provide proof of his allegations, which in some small way
corroborates my complaint to truedigger3.  Night-Gaunt again indicts
truedigger3 for his overreaction to N-G’s comments earlier and
reminding TD3 of his earlier blatantly reactive accusations of me
being dishonest , screaming and flailing.  At 3:38 truedigger3 starts out
being informative but ends up accusing me of being accusatory and
deliberately being ethically dishonest!  A ridiculous charge since I had
already explained about the Jews, it is just that he chose to ignore it
and keep taking a partisan issue with it attacking my person instead of
explicitly dealing with what I said.  Obviously having a weak argument,
he resorts as usual to namecalling.  At 4:06pm I call him on it.  I begin
to see that I have hit the nail on the head.  I do begin to slide into
preliminary defensive name-calling as flamer, and vacuous.  Again at
4:17pm I continue with that metaphor of he living under a rock
(meaning he is entrenched in his own opinion)  I ask him questions
that he ignores obviously because he cannot answer.  He is vacant in
any answers.  Others begin to see his sham. 

There is no interaction between he and I until again at May 14
11:40pm when he takes up the excessive name-calling, calling me a
liar and fabricator and as falling flat on my face because he senses I
did not take his advice (which was rather empty in all reality) and that I
was a part of a Zionist continent and embarrassment and liability for
some mythological group of people who cheer and egg me on (with
absolutely no evidence of that insanity) that I was dumb, and spewing
laughable nonsense.  That was a perfect example of his idiotic practice
of name-calling.  It was from that post that I surmised he was a
housebound pervert that needed public denigration who only baits to
get it.  Please do see my retort at May 15 12:23am.  It is a beaut.  My
next posts are explicitly directed at others.  At 12:18pm truedigger
says I am a hag and a drunk low level down street whore!  Hmmmm
what do you make of that, Namecaller?  Impotent to deal with my ideas
and resorts to denigrating me.  I reply a couple of times, once at
1:11pm quite obviously pissed off, and again at 5:09pm.  Also a tour
de force retaliation.  His return comment at 7:00pm declares I am
venomous (which is really the first truism he’s given,  I do have venom
waiting in my psyche for any miscreant that dares to attack me).  He
deludes himself that I care if he has no respect for me, because first of
all he has no respect for himself and easily able to spout epithets to
those who dare to challenge him.  I do respond at 8:52pm calling him
a disrespectful blockhead.  I am left with that impression.  After that he
starts on other people about me, with OzarkMichael at 11:17pm,
Leefeller at May 16 12:58am, again with OzarkMichael at 1:16am, he is
obviously obsessed.  I chide ITW at 3:00am as it is fast becoming a
comedy show.  Then TD3 attacks ITW and attempts to mate him with
the Shepotamus!  How hysterically funny.  The guy has obviously come
unhinged.  At May 16 9:23am he calls me ugly and repulsive and
hygienically challenged (what?  I have body odor?  Oh come on, it is
middle eastern men who don’t bath very often.

It doesn’t matter if anyone reads this.  I would think it is most boring,
it is boring for me!  I am just setting the record straight.

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 16, 2010 at 10:15 am Link to this comment

TD3,

Slow learners seem to have many problems, from memory to comprehension, thiking with their mouths closed,  even slobbering. Being a slow learner I have much experience in the slow learning department not so much the fly catching mouth open or slobbering!

Now I have said this before, I do not try to be funny for clowns try to be funny and I have an adverseness to clowns, seems to me people like Omop and TD3 and several others here on TD would not even make good clowns, for a clown must be able to laugh at them selves!

Now in my case of what I may be doing, it could be prudent for someone like yourself to know the difference between humor and funny! But one must realize attempting to define funny or humor to an object like a rock or a person such as yourself as the butt of a joke may be improbable, impossible and deluded, depending on the comprehension capabilities of the butt.

Another poster who is eminently better at it than I, (Nemesis) has already defined very clearly the use of wit as opposed to half-wit, which seems a prominent problem here on TD as well. Seemingly knowing the differences of many things, like reality from fiction or opinion from fact. Now TD3, I would never mention your name,  but by the slightest chance one could possbilty see the light as in comprehend, this may hopefully serve a purpose for the unenlightened, by calling attention to the defining differences between funny, humor, clown and half-wit; compared to using ones wit in writing.

Report this

By truedigger3, May 16, 2010 at 9:11 am Link to this comment

Re:By Leefeller, May 16 at 12:12 pm #

Weefeller,

I read you post, hoping against all odds, that this time you will be funny, but unfortunately, you are still not funny. What a bummer!
Maybe it is best for you, and for all die hard hopers against all odds, who are still hoping that eventually you will be funny, to stop trying to be funny and start being serious for a change.!
Are you insisting on being our resident clown??!!

Report this

By elisalouisa, May 16, 2010 at 8:43 am Link to this comment

Such wisdom Leefeller. I shall consult with Rooster Big, perhaps he will sign the contact with his new given name. Nothing tiny about Rooster Big.

Report this

By truedigger3, May 16, 2010 at 8:15 am Link to this comment

“By Inherit The Wind, May 16 at 11:03 am #


TD3:

Here’s a word of advice:

You are in a hole. Stop digging. “
___________________________________________________

ITW,

And I have an advice for you too:
Spare me your “hollier than you” sacntimonious sermonizing bullshit.
Please read my previous post carefully!!! Shenonymous started the attacks and your attitude is codescending toward women.
I respect and value men and women who deserve respect. I voted for Cynthia Mckinney.

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, May 16, 2010 at 8:12 am Link to this comment

Actually if I recollect the chicken balls theory was started by Nemesis replying to ITW mentioning Agnostics in general and ITW in particular, something about Agnostics having “tiny little chicken Balls” because ITW stated he was an Agnostic, well anyway it was ITW’s own personal definition of a agnostic; which seemed a now one on me as well; which caused the whole thing. 

Chicken Little analogies have been used by me on several occasions, these time I cannot recall, nor do I care,  but I found them to be perfect analogies at the time.

Last November when I was awarded the “Chicken Little Award” by you….. elisalouisa, I accepted it graciously and pretended music, do you recall my acceptance speech?  I thanked you and everyone for making this award possible. I thanked my mom, all seven of my sisters and my uncle Ralph and my other Uncle Ralph and then I cried for the longest time.  I remember crying almost as much as I did after TD3’s most recent hurtful comments to me for just making a point, (and I had thought we were best…ist of friends). All blame should be on Shenonymous, mentioning Truthdig3’s proclivities with his fetish as a house bound pervert!!  In fact, Trughdigs3 house bound perversions have been mentioned a zillion times in last two days!  Being called on ones perversions is bad enough, sadly the only rebuttal TD3 can conjure up, seems to be calling everyone a Zionist?

Than I mentioned the tiny little chicken balls again (cannot remember in what context), but it seems to have had something to do with TD3? (I refuse to go back and find out why I mentioned the tiny little Chicken balls in context to TD3)!

Chicken Little should very well….. feel denigrated, but not for the reason you would suggest or even expect!  Chicken Little’s right to be upset about the word “tiny” in the comment “Tiny Little Chicken Balls”, for the size of balls has little to do with anything except possibley a personal reason and what seems to be the same reason many posters here on TD seem to be upste,  they may feel a special need to defend the size of their balls!

Now to the chase;  I know little about history, the world and less about many other things.  But some things I do seem to know from my observations in life and even here on TD, some posters display their protruding foreheads on TD with regularity and it seems the same posters like to insult as a form of entertainment. Many seem quite good at insulting and others really suck at it, sort of like TD3. 

Another thing I know having been a farmer for 50 years and having raised a few chickens! Chickens do not have tiny little chicken balls simply because they do not have balls!  Another thing I know Chicken Little is not a Chicken, for he is a rooster and he should be called “Rooster Little” which has nothing to do with the size of his balls, except for there entertainment value!

Report this
Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, May 16, 2010 at 7:15 am Link to this comment

Good morning ITW.  Please take this in the good spirit in which
it is intended.  And really just as an aside.  Inasmuch as I am more
than quite happy with my looks, I have no insecurities there, I am
neither ugly, fat, lesbian, whorish, or a dumb blonde! (no aspersion
to blondes here meant, I have beautiful smart blonde friends, and I
don’t find lesbianism, or homosexuality for that matter, offensive)
and I have had a wonderful and fruitful life so far, having a family,
and really good friends, and a very satisfying and successful career,
that is not the force of my pointing out your bit of indiscretion. 

But in your defensiveness it seems you maybe you cannot see beyond
your reactive consciousness.  I am not meaning to offend you, just
possibly trying to show you the basis for a misplaced sense of
rightness, attempting to show that perhaps you are not providing the
effect you think you might be.  Are you beyond learning anything about
yourself?  I’m hoping not. 

You don’t think for a second I can’t handle what the miscreant cretins
say about me do you?  I am well able to field anything they say
and return volleys with more potent force.  Good grief my tenure on TD
has shown that in spades.  I never run from the name calling but look
it square in the face and throw it back!  What you do as a third-party is
surreptitiously reinforce their name-calling.  They leap for joy at
anyone’s repetition of their pathetic juvenile unhinged name-calling. 
Your attempt at any psychology to throw their words back in their faces
does nothing.  It is a counterproductive truly feeble attempt.  It does
not embarrass them in the least, there is no conscience there, mainly
because there is no evolved mind or sense of self respect.  So what is
the net effect of your repetition?  Merely an accumulation of the name-
calling.  Things in print have a much different effect than if they were
to say it out loud to me, even in a crowd.  The spoken word
evaporates.  If a woman outclasses a man who is demeaning her, that
is the sweet revenge, and when committed in print, even sweeter. 

Of course I realize to the nth degree why they do it.  If I didn’t I would
not be able to “best” them.  I’d run off needing a new pair of shoes. 
That is what Leefeller shows he realizes in his sense of chivalry
and you do not.  You may not have intended to defend me per ser but
do so out of an attempt to defend all women.  I know that.  It is
laudable and sensitive that you have high respect for women.  You were
raised right.  I have expressed an appreciation for your acumen and
intellect many times.  You are often demeaned, but I would never add
fuel to the fire and repeat what has been said. If you are going to
defend in the abstract, then get rid of the personal element.  Otherwise
it merely reinforces their insults.  One has to be smarter than the
imbeciles!  That is the psychology.

Women are equivalent human beings, nothing more.  Real battered
women are the ones who need help.  Just visit a woman’s shelter
occasionally and help out, show them that all men are not monstrous
vermin.  It is your behavior shows women and your family and friends
your respect.

It is definitely time for a cup of coffee.

Report this

Page 4 of 9 pages « First  <  2 3 4 5 6 >  Last »

 
Monsters of Our Own Creation? Get tickets for this Truthdig discussion of America's role in the Middle East.
Right 1, Site wide - BlogAds Premium
 
Right Skyscraper, Site Wide
Right 2, Site wide - Blogads
 
Join the Liberal Blog Advertising Network
 
 
 

A Progressive Journal of News and Opinion   Publisher, Zuade Kaufman   Editor, Robert Scheer
© 2014 Truthdig, LLC. All rights reserved.

Like Truthdig on Facebook