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A Movement Too Big to Fail

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Posted on Oct 16, 2011
AP / Ted S. Warren

Protesters in Seattle melt a Bank of America debit card.

By Chris Hedges

There is no danger that the protesters who have occupied squares, parks and plazas across the nation in defiance of the corporate state will be co-opted by the Democratic Party or groups like MoveOn. The faux liberal reformers, whose abject failure to stand up for the rights of the poor and the working class, have signed on to this movement because they fear becoming irrelevant. Union leaders, who pull down salaries five times that of the rank and file as they bargain away rights and benefits, know the foundations are shaking. So do Democratic politicians from Barack Obama to Nancy Pelosi. So do the array of “liberal” groups and institutions, including the press, that have worked to funnel discontented voters back into the swamp of electoral politics and mocked those who called for profound structural reform.

Resistance, real resistance, to the corporate state was displayed when a couple of thousand protesters, clutching mops and brooms, early Friday morning forced the owners of Zuccotti Park and the New York City police to back down from a proposed attempt to expel them in order to “clean” the premises. These protesters in that one glorious moment did what the traditional “liberal” establishment has steadily refused to do—fight back. And it was deeply moving to watch the corporate rats scamper back to their holes on Wall Street. It lent a whole new meaning to the phrase “too big to fail.”

Tinkering with the corporate state will not work. We will either be plunged into neo-feudalism and environmental catastrophe or we will wrest power from corporate hands. This radical message, one that demands a reversal of the corporate coup, is one the power elite, including the liberal class, is desperately trying to thwart. But the liberal class has no credibility left. It collaborated with corporate lobbyists to neglect the rights of tens of millions of Americans, as well as the innocents in our imperial wars. The best that liberals can do is sheepishly pretend this is what they wanted all along. Groups such as MoveOn and organized labor will find themselves without a constituency unless they at least pay lip service to the protests. The Teamsters’ arrival Friday morning to help defend the park signaled an infusion of this new radicalism into moribund unions rather than a co-opting of the protest movement by the traditional liberal establishment. The union bosses, in short, had no choice.

The Occupy Wall Street movement, like all radical movements, has obliterated the narrow political parameters. It proposes something new. It will not make concessions with corrupt systems of corporate power. It holds fast to moral imperatives regardless of the cost. It confronts authority out of a sense of responsibility. It is not interested in formal positions of power. It is not seeking office. It is not trying to get people to vote. It has no resources. It can’t carry suitcases of money to congressional offices or run millions of dollars of advertisements. All it can do is ask us to use our bodies and voices, often at personal risk, to fight back. It has no other way of defying the corporate state. This rebellion creates a real community instead of a managed or virtual one. It affirms our dignity. It permits us to become free and independent human beings.

Martin Luther King was repeatedly betrayed by liberal supporters, especially when he began to challenge economic forms of discrimination, which demanded that liberals, rather than simply white Southern racists, begin to make sacrifices. King too was a radical. He would not compromise on nonviolence, racism or justice. He understood that movements—such as the Liberty Party, which fought slavery, the suffragists, who fought for women’s rights, the labor movement and the civil rights movement—have always been the true correctives in American democracy. None of those movements achieved formal political power. But by holding fast to moral imperatives they made the powerful fear them. King knew that racial equality was impossible without economic justice and an end to militarism. And he had no intention of ceding to the demands of the liberal establishment that called on him to be calm and patient.

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“For years, I labored with the idea of reforming the existing institutions in the South, a little change here, a little change there,” King said shortly before he was assassinated. “Now I feel quite differently. I think you’ve got to have a reconstruction of the entire system, a revolution of values.”

King was killed in 1968 when he was in Memphis to support a strike by sanitation workers. By then he had begun to say that his dream, the one that the corporate state has frozen into a few safe clichés from his 1963 speech in Washington, had turned into a nightmare. King called at the end of his life for massive federal funds to rebuild inner cities, what he called “a radical redistribution of economic and political power,” a complete restructuring of “the architecture of American society.” He grasped that the inequities of capitalism had become the instrument by which the poor would always remain poor.

“Call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism,” King said, “but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country for all of God’s children.”

On the eve of King’s murder he was preparing to organize a poor people’s march on Washington, D.C., designed to cause “major, massive dislocations,” a nonviolent demand by the poor, including the white underclass, for a system of economic equality. It would be 43 years before his vision was realized by an eclectic group of protesters who gathered before the gates of Wall Street.


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oddsox's avatar

By oddsox, October 27, 2011 at 2:51 pm Link to this comment

(dead thread test)
here’s a link for more info on Breaking Up the Too-Big-
To-Fails:
http://open.salon.com/blog/oddsox/2011/10/10/too_big_to
_fail_too_big_to_begin_with

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By ray d, October 27, 2011 at 10:55 am Link to this comment

This column can be read in Spanish, in its entirety, here: http://cholericserpent.blogspot.com/2011/10/un-movimiento-muy-grande-para-caer.html

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By Marcus Riedner, October 24, 2011 at 8:38 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The “liberal class”? Come on, when did your position on the political spectrum become a “class”? Hedges sounds like he’s cramming economics into your political affiliation, desperately. Last time I checked being “liberal” did not entitle a person to a six figure+ salary ( I certainly don’t have one ) or any serious form of class separation. Does that mean that the conservative “class” are low income non-union workers? It makes no sense, and while I agree that there is a class struggle going on that Occupy is exemplifying, I do not agree that “liberal” is a class - not in the sense that Hedges uses here.

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Not One More!'s avatar

By Not One More!, October 21, 2011 at 1:58 pm Link to this comment

Vote For Change

I’m all for voting green, Nader, or any viable alternative to the two corporate parties that are supported by Wall Street because of their support of Wall Street over the interests of not just the American people, but the nation.

Obama, Bush, Clinton, and Reagan were all traitors who acted against the best interests of the country.

Don’t give the status quo your consent. Stop voting for them.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, October 21, 2011 at 6:34 am Link to this comment

This year, I think the Greens have a good opportunity on the Federal level.  Mr. O is going to try to do a 180-degree turn—or I should say a pair of 180-degree turns, one before the election and one after—but he will find that very tricky.

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By ardee, October 21, 2011 at 5:17 am Link to this comment

As a postscript to Mr. Cyr’s request I would add that voting for the local and state Green candidates is even more important, in my own opinion, as the hope for a third party movement remains a slow but steady election of Greens, first to local office, then state and finally ,national.

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David J. Cyr's avatar

By David J. Cyr, October 20, 2011 at 5:51 pm Link to this comment

It’s time for tens of millions of people, who’ve been misled, abused and victimized by the corporate person candidates they’ve supported, to stop their active and/or passive support of all the neoliberal corporate party policies they angrily protest against, and to start voting for a people’s democratic government responsibly responsive to the natural persons’ needs that they’ve been saying they want.

It’s time for protesting people to sensibly put their votes to work in a people’s party actual opposition to everything they’ve been protesting against.

Jill Stein for President 2012:

http://www.jillstein.org/

Jill Stein’s bio:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jill_Stein

Stein, in 2010, standing for MA Gov. election:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bRME4gXAUo

2010 Stein campaign spot “Why You Should Vote for the Underdog”:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmgPqupJsZU&feature=related

Jill Stein, in 2010: “Let’s have a real debate!”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH7DQOE-GVw&feature=related

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katsteevns's avatar

By katsteevns, October 20, 2011 at 7:19 am Link to this comment

Excellent, Gabriel!!

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Gabriel's avatar

By Gabriel, October 19, 2011 at 9:28 pm Link to this comment

Balkas:
Be careful what info you let loose about yourself. There are users on TD that will gather your info bit by bit, then when they disagree with you and can’t bend you to their thinking they will use it against you. They will seem like your friends but actually are building a detailed profile to attack you later.

You can tell by phrases like: “people that resided there”.
If you take a detailed look then you will see the deception.

Example: [from Old English to today]
“person” = purse son = a son who carries a purse = slave/underling that carries a purse for his master
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/person

“resided”: a Free and/or Sovereign individual that has switched sides from being Free to a Corporate slave by contract ... usually by a Birth Certificate or Citizenship. Immigration papers are such as well.
Watch and learn [4 parts]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZfvfVbl6A4
Note: A Sovereign doesn’t need to reside as he/she is the rightful owner of that land they are on, or any papers to travel anywhere on Earth. At most a Sovereign may need a letter from another Sovereign inviting them there, as a guest.

You want to pick up a good Law dictionary [or many] and check their words ... every last one of them, starting with each one in the Title. As it is NOT English that they are using but something similar called Legalese, a Maritime Admiralty Law language = Law of the Seas and “shipping product” and NOT Law of the Land you are on, Theirs is today’s Law of Commerce and business.

You want to also look at each word and see if has any double meanings or is a composite of more words. This means looking at the root of each word, where it came from and how it was used before and how it’s used now.

Maybe after this, you can see Whom and How is trying to deceive and why there are so many comments in this thread, like a war of information and tactics.

As you may know, the War from 8k plus yrs ago was over Men’s and Women’s minds, the ruling class against everyone else. So it is still today.

What you just told “radson” and everyone here, is that you have immigrated here and signed papers that makes you a Voluntary Slave to the Corporation. Now he can have you arrested or thrown in jail if you don’t follow his demands, or anyone else’s that’s part of the Corporation. He can dispose of you as refuge if you become a bad product.

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By radson, October 19, 2011 at 7:44 pm Link to this comment

Havala Balkas :Yes I understand what you are saying ,I spent some time in your Country -in Banja Luka and I may add that I never felt threatened by any of the ‘mixtures ’ of people that resided there .It was more of a Western creation that attempted to influence my opinion at the time ;that I was ignorant of .It is a shame that the European Countries would allow such a fate to be dealt to a country that was in essence a MOST between the West and the East during the Cold War .What transpired later was a blatant disregard for the community of nations ,that is why that the UN became a failure ,obviously to the benefit of Nato.

Czesc

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By balkas, October 19, 2011 at 6:40 pm Link to this comment

radson,
i escaped from yuga in ‘51. i was just 19 yrs old.
and for a long time or roughly for 40yrs of my life i
knew next to zero about things i talk about now.

but ideas began cropping up in my brain; arousing my
brain to work harder and harder. it wld produce one
idea and that idea wld lead me to discovery of a host
of new ideas, discovery of facts and invention of a
three step method of thinking: posit all salient facts
which pertain to event being analyzed, draw a
conclusion from facts or posit an expectation, and
finally propose a solution.

and avoid as plague all ad hominem praise/blame or
talk about any ism.

most posters, priests, politicos, columnists,
‘educators, et al most of the time reverse this
natural/sane way of evaluating.
most either attack the person, or start their evaluating
from a conclusion or set of conclusions, wishes, etc;
evaluating them as facts and jump from such ‘facts’ to
other conclusions, while adducing only a few well-
selected facts or just pile up ad hominem
praise/blame on the person who dares posit own facts,
ideas, etc..

since i use the method i just described, i an not
perturbed to any degree if people disagree with my
analyses.
yes, i do, sorry to say, feel hurt by ad hominem labels.
i have no defenses against them. tnx

eventually i stop reading such comments or pieces
written by msm media people. tnx

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By radson, October 19, 2011 at 5:08 pm Link to this comment

Gabriel: A very predictable comment and a confirmation as to who and what you really are .Fools there are ,but you really redefine the term and you can LINK yourself to that .Good luck with your Spook
idiots ,Halloween is just around the corner and you can masquerade your stupidity in LINKS.

PS if you don’t like TD you can always go to the 200 other sites that YOU have claimed enjoy your nonsense within a legal framework ,pick a bridge .

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Gabriel's avatar

By Gabriel, October 19, 2011 at 4:39 pm Link to this comment

Radson:
If you’re not a link person then what are you doing on internet? It must be causing shit .. they are called “trolls” and “shills”.
Thank you for your clarity. Just like “heterochromatic” just did. smile

Pissed off? HAHAHA .. highly unlikely .. thanks for providing the joke of the day.

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By heterochromatic, October 19, 2011 at 3:55 pm Link to this comment

balkas, got your old brain into gear. if I’m discussing something that Gab said,
with Gab, and you stick your well-aged proboscis into it with a comment in the
first person…....

“”“"heterochromatic,
i did not say that the structure of govt has not changed. i said that the
structure of GOVERNANCE and society has not changed.”“”“”“”“

as if I had been addressing your, up to that point, absent old self…..then you’re
going to have to explain why it is that you’re NOT a sock-puppet.

no stop playing at silly old buggers, and fade away in shame, sham.

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By radson, October 19, 2011 at 3:51 pm Link to this comment

Gabriel :I AM not a LINK person I do not base my judgement on links .I still believe that the strength of a chain is based on its weakest Link .When I do decide to write a book I will supply ALL the necessary references .And don’t get pissed off if you don’t like my response .

cheers

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Gabriel's avatar

By Gabriel, October 19, 2011 at 3:26 pm Link to this comment

Radson: WADR .. How many times do I need to tell you My proof is included in links provided. Where is yours?

Wake up .. No pyramid at all .. discarded, gone!

Yes, What you see @ OWS & Occupy D Planet is only stage 1 [one] of 3.
This is not a matter of your accusing “spook” stuff etc.
It’s a matter of combined ideas from around the WHOLE Planet, the best ones.

Get with the program already.
I don’t propose anything. I’m telling you what’s being talked about, considered and planned .. what shills and MSM try to hide.

I have clearly stated all over TD that this will get ugly and most likely Millions if not Billions will die IF things go sour and Oligarchy fights back .. as they have no qualms in using Nukes, viruses, chemicals etc. to keep in power.

I like most of your comments .. but do learn how to read and put the pieces together. smile

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By radson, October 19, 2011 at 3:22 pm Link to this comment

Balkas :Are you an old timer of the Tito Establishment ,well we have something in common ,I’m part of the new generation of the forgotten Armia Krajowa.

cheers

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By balkas, October 19, 2011 at 3:10 pm Link to this comment

heterochromatic,
sorry that my posts have upset u. and it seems to me,
quite a bit. on a scale 0 to ten, please tell! btw, are u a
priest by any chance?

today’s the first time i commented on a gabriel’s post.
and i agreed with him on only one point in my first
reply to him—that of ideal [not utopian] equality
among people.

actually, this is the only the second time i ever came
across gabriel on any site. the first time was yesterday.
[mind u, i am 80 yrs old, so i cannot rely much on my
memory or even brainwork—what i write comes from
others; however, not one living in washing town]

i think u may have fallen madly in hate with the
desirable truth that we all shld be equal before god,
o’bombama, pope, a rabbi, lady gaga, john waine,
newt, palin, bush, you.
i strongly advise not to read what i say. actually, at
least dozen sites [including a few leftist] have hated so
much what i—oops, we say [yes, i had teachers and
not the ones imposed on me from above] they erased
me from their sites.
btw, even my wife thinks i am clazy? tnx

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Gabriel's avatar

By Gabriel, October 19, 2011 at 2:59 pm Link to this comment

Mr. / Ms. heterochromatic:
Since you are new on TD ... I hope you grasp the full weight of the following:

Your frivolous accusations rejected!

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By radson, October 19, 2011 at 2:54 pm Link to this comment

Re Gabriel

Lets cut to the chase ,I’ll consider you to be a person that has an immense interest in Ancient History and the implications that are and have shaped the social structure of old and what exists today ,comparatively speaking .The Indiana Jones ‘spook’  stuff doesn’t interest me and I ‘am not practically impressed by your claim to such organizations ,unless of course you wish to supply the ‘Proof ’ of wish you refer to as a means
of defense .I do agree with you on the fact that the majority of Citizens are being manipulated by the ruling class or the 1% and that ,that has been the case for thousands of years ,now how do you propose to invert
the Pyramid -turn it upside down and accomplish this Horizontal Society ,that would spread the wealth of all nations for the betterment of Humanity .The OWS Movement is presently in the initial phase ,but you know as well as I that there is much work to be done in order to reach the second phase -that’s when things are going to become a lot hotter winter notwithstanding .

cheers

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By weindeb, October 19, 2011 at 2:38 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

JDmysticDJ. thank you for recognizing that the moral emperor has no clothes. He
seems obsessed with completing the task that Reagan and his word mongers so
faithfully orchestrated; namely, destroying the essence and significance “liberal”
and, yes, “conservative”, so popular in use now even when assigned to people like
Tom DeLay, Limbaugh and like ilk instead of the gold old-fashioned pejorative,
“reactionary”. But Hedges, who I think occasionally has some good things to say, is
nonetheless doing his level damnedest to make liberals (progressives, too?) to be
utter villains: originators of treachery, lies, wars, people, thievery, almost every
right-wing outrage, no different from the neocons. Well, I’m a liberal and
comfortably march with OSW and indeed have started a little website centering on
the movement - http://www.mycountrytis.org. But my God, to paint liberals the way he
consistently, hysterically does, is to cause one like me to see a pompous, self-
important, egomaniacal wannabe, like maybe an Old Testament prophet, maybe
even with the fame accompanying such a being.

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By radson, October 19, 2011 at 2:24 pm Link to this comment

JDMystic :Are you a Lemming with a Parachute?

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Gabriel's avatar

By Gabriel, October 19, 2011 at 2:11 pm Link to this comment

@ Balkas

Welcome smile .. and thank you for the support.

And the Lawful Assembly not protest, know all too well of these concepts. These are not some ignorant bums or shills like some found on TD. They are highly educated individuals who have taken on a Cult of Scientology and Won. The adults couldn’t do it, but they did it hands down.

They have studied every part of History and dug into every corner and dusty box before they even started this. Many have dug into secret records and shared them far and wide. Wikileaks is only a tiny part of what they let loose.

If you take every Internet data center and combine them, then you see how much they know. Anonymous is not just some hacker kids, it’s everyone who’s ever been abused by Oligarch Super Mafia. That’s many Millions of highly educated individuals around this Planet.

The “establishment” is in very deep shit if these young adults and every individual they are tied together with starts letting loose of Oligarchy secrets. Secrets such as; all the corrupt and fraudulent deals, covert phone calls, emails, pics, video, etc.

The NSA and all the spy agencies on Earth put together don’t have as much as these young adults do. This is why the big scare about file sharing and copyright, packaged as net-neutrality.

Websites like Tragedy & Hope http://tragedyandhope.com/ have sprung up all over the place. They use relational databases to link and tie the offenders. In this case T&D uses Wikipedia to track almost the whole 1% across the planet.

There’s enough there to bury every one of the corrupt in jail for the next 1,000 yrs, literally .. from the presidents, kings and queens to bankers and local franchise merchants and everyone in between.

With the proliferation of comments on TD, one can clearly see how badly the Oligarchs and anyone supporting them are scared. The whole Euro-US-Israel Empire and wherever it spread are deathly scared. And yes this includes China, Russia and everywhere else .. the whole planet, really.

List of the offenders, the 1%, is clear as it’s all over the news, in public records and on the Internet. This includes the supposedly hidden ones called Investors .. the REAL Oligarchy Super Mafia behind this mess, their whole family trees, and scanned records throughout History. And there is no place to hide, no matter how many layers of deception they try to use or how many records they dump or shred or burn.

There’s something they forgot; We the People, as administrators, workers, employees and even private contractors have made backups, then backups upon backups of the 1% crimes. This is why you never EVER screw with your network admin. or any worker for that matter.

Now this Power the Oligarchs didn’t foresee. wink

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By heterochromatic, October 19, 2011 at 12:40 pm Link to this comment

balkas, I’m new to the site, so I’m sorry that I didn’t realized that you and Gab
were the same person.

Even so, I’m surprised that balkas and Gabriel like to write comments to each
other expressing how much they admire each other’s wisdom.

Anyway, saying that the structure of governance hasn’t changed is wonderfully
vaporous and uninteresting, and uninformative, yet still manages to be a bunch
of shit.

The “structure” of an elephant and a dining room chair must be the same
because they both have four legs and can be sat upon…..and they basically
have changed much in 8000 years.

but I’m pretty sure that once dining rooms chairs and elephants learn to exist
together in an ideally egalitarian way it will result in a pantisocratic and
timocratic system of rule. tnx

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JDmysticDJ's avatar

By JDmysticDJ, October 19, 2011 at 11:34 am Link to this comment

Hedges has gone over the edge again, and his lemming like followers follow him over the edge. The perception that this article is an anti-liberal diatribe does not require any perception at all. Who’s co-opting who? Hedges co-opts Occupy Wall Street to serve his anti-liberal dialectic, and his followers also seek to co-opt the movement to fit their own personal peculiarities. It’s entertaining; they’re all doing the “Horizontal Bop” trying their damndest to out bop each other, attempting to create a horizontal hierarchy.

The demagoguery is so thick here it couldn’t be cut with a chain saw. Now, let’s see… according to the polls the vast majority of Americans share Occupy Wall Streets disdain for Wall Street. I suppose that some of those Americans might even be Liberals, those not nefariously colluding with the 1% that is, Obama, Pelosi, and such; Damn them to hell!

Only Anarchy can save us, horizontal Anarchy, that’s the ticket!

Tea Party versus Occupy Wall Street: Tea Party tragically affective politically, Occupy Wall Street tragically ineffective politically. 

Laughing just to keep from crying.

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By balkas, October 19, 2011 at 11:15 am Link to this comment

gabriel,
i am glad u said it also: we need an ideally egalitarian structure of
society, which, in my expectations, wld result in a pantisocratic and
timocratic system of rule. tnx

Report this

By balkas, October 19, 2011 at 10:49 am Link to this comment

heterochromatic,
i did not say that the structure of govt has not changed. i said that the
structure of GOVERNANCE and society has not changed.
the present structure of society and system of rule, say, in india, had
been first established in either mesopotamia, hindus valley, or egypt, or
who cares where.

and it had not changed an iota since whenever and by whomever it had
been first time ever instituted.

i suggest it had been sorcerers, wizards, witches, charlatans, magicians
who were the first people who began to divide people into more- and
less-valuable.
that system of rule [and root of all evil that had BEFALLEN US THUS FAR]
was later and perhaps over centuries or even millennia imperceptibly
‘perfected’ by the sacerdotal class of lowlife [i wonder if any other class
can get lower than it?]

[btw, indigenes of n. america had no priestly class; thus no ‘elites’,
exploitation, imperialism, whores, jails, money, laws, police, secret
police, nobility, standing army, etc., and, ergo, a highly civilized way of
living.
and when priests saw hat they went ballistics seeing such ‘primitiveness’
that they decided to utterly destroy it for all times. and they did!]

caveat! i admire people who believe in god; however, organized religion,
structured exactly like an army or mafia, has nothing to do with the idea
of god. these are two entirely diff phenomena.

i fear that not even one of the protesters are aware of the facts i posited
above. if so, then, they will most likely underestimate the evilness of the
system of rule and the capability/determination of the clero-plutocratic
lowlife to preserve THE SYSTEM—whatever the cost; to us, tho, only.

and it is THE SYSTEM that is in absolute control of the army, police,
cia/fbi, all judges; most lawyers, actors, bankers, ‘educators’, media
people, and even of 98% of voters, food, air, and water, i may add. tnx

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By heterochromatic, October 19, 2011 at 9:30 am Link to this comment

ardee. it was your opinion that I wanted and I thank you for providing it
I wish you a full recovery and speedy convalescence

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, October 19, 2011 at 8:31 am Link to this comment

There is now a fellow in Florida, a U.S. Representative I believe, who says he has evidence that the Occupations are ‘linked’ to the America Nazi Party’ and the ‘American Communist Party’.  We’re still missing the KKK, the Mafia, and Satan, but they’ll probably be along.  I think the calumniators may have overplayed their hand.  It’s like Civil Rights days. 

Now, professionals wouldn’t have done that; each canard would have been worked for its full value before the next one was introduced.  We can’t even produce good slander these days.

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By Vermonter, October 19, 2011 at 8:11 am Link to this comment

Hedges,this column is pure gold.  Every sentence. 
Thank you.

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By ardee, October 19, 2011 at 7:02 am Link to this comment

Gabriel, October 18 at 10:04 pm Link to this comment

Now I’m going to say something which each and every one of you should realize.

Charleton Heston as Moses Gabriel comes down from the mountain with a stone tablet of a post…..yet again. Self involved much Gabe?

heterochromatic, October 18 at 4:31 pm Link to this comment

ardee, if you remember the police response to the anti-war protests of the 60s
and witnessed the NYPD response to the OWS protest, how would you say that the
NYPD has handled 30+ days?

I must perforce note that my comments stem from my seeing only what the various reporting agencies have allowed the viewing and reading public to see and hear. I am still house bound after recent surgery.

I see that, as per usual, the violence is being committed only by a few cops, and those seem to be limited to the higher ups within the NYPD. I am heartened, I might add, by the disciplinary action being taken against that ranking officer who maced those four women.

In other areas of the nation reactions to this rapidly spreading populist “uprising” seem to take the form of issuing expensive tickets and fines, which is fine with me wink.

One note as to one difference between this movement and the anti war demonstrations of the sixties and seventies; We were genuinely expecting that our efforts were the advent of a real revolution in the nation, quite the naive firebrands we were then, while the folks out there today seem far more politically aware and more savvy as well.

Where we incited riot, easily done with the various tactical police goon squads we faced then, today’s protestors take great care NOT to do so understanding, as we did not, that violence plays directly into the hands of those who own the police and the national guard.

Thanks for the question, I hope you understand that my response is only an opinion and based upon limited exposure as well.

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By Rod Morgan, October 19, 2011 at 6:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I was lecturing at a conference of finance and and financial administration folks in Toronto, Canada a few years ago… the topic being “how to improve” financial processes from an efficiency and cost perspective, but I opened the session with a question that had been bothering more and more over the previous years.  Accounting, when you get past the rules, is pretty simple.  The are five distinct regions that make up the “world” of finance:  assets, liabilities, revenue, expenses, and (for what may or may not be left over), retained earnings/shareholder equity.  I had spent the past 15 years of my life living on in that “world”.  I asked the gathering of finance folks, “At some time in the past, those regions were empty… a “zero” in each. So… Where did the numbers come from?”.  Who “created” them?  This, I believe, is the crux of the problem.  Somehow we have lost site of that and the lives of the majority of us (not all, and certainly not everywhere in the world) has been governed by the illusion of wealth.  Questions we must ask ourselves everday… Are we happier?  Will we leave a positive legacy for our children?  Will we leave the world a slightly better place than when we first arrived?  The problem with wealth, once you get beyond the numbers game, is when the focus on acquiring of it exceeds the impulse to share it.  A positive change is in the wind for the West and I am hoping to be able to witness it in my lifetime and that my children’s children will be able to look back, as we do to other pivotal points in human history, and say, “That is when it happened”.  Peace.  Rod

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By Gabriel, October 19, 2011 at 4:22 am Link to this comment

Latest news from Occupy Wall St says Lawful Assembly is rejecting ANY co-opt attempts by the Left or high profile celebrities.
There has been a steady stream of them and OWS Assembly is rejecting them all. Media doesn’t know how to paint this and are at a loss.

More on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0ZzqkY2OxA
starts @ 7:25 min

And more detailed report on OWS here: http://ruleoflawradio.com/archive/?p=5012&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+INNWorldReportRadio+(INN+World+Report+Radio)
starts @ 5:20 min

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By RayLan, October 19, 2011 at 1:38 am Link to this comment

The huge disconnect between the desires of the commonweal (democratically) and the policies promoted by the political-electoral machine has been clearly demonstrated by this Occupy protest. That the nation, actually the world, needs this kind of grass roots process proves that overall, the political capitalist system is irreparably broken and serves only the needs of the monied aristrocracy.

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By Gabriel, October 18, 2011 at 11:07 pm Link to this comment

@ heter..

Nice try, go look again, original is a quote raspberry
My subsequent question is about core systems, if you’re smart enough to grasp it. I’m sure you are as you figured out part of it.

Your Poor attempt at manipulating my comments, history and present. Show proof otherwise, and then we can talk.

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By heterochromatic, October 18, 2011 at 10:20 pm Link to this comment

keep, preach the word, baby. that revolution has been coming for thousands of
years and it is getting closer. no one alive today will see its arrival, but the more
we act as if we will, the sooner we’ll be right.

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By heterochromatic, October 18, 2011 at 10:16 pm Link to this comment

Gab, not only are differences between the structure of govt in the US and that of
societies of 8,000 years back….but that’s not what your previous comment said.


you said that the structures in the US and India hadn’t changed from the structures
in those places that prevailed 8,000 years ago…..

either way, you’re talking tripe.

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By keepyourheaddown, October 18, 2011 at 10:05 pm Link to this comment

There is a revolution coming. It will not be like revolution­­­­­­­­­­­­s of the past. It will originate with the individual and with culture, and it will change the political structure only as its final act. It will not require violence to succeed, and it cannot be successful­­­­­­­­­­­­l­y resisted by violence..­­­­­­­­­­­­.

“The logic and necessity of the new generation­­­­­­­­­­­­-­-­a­n­d what they are so furiously opposed to—must be seen against a background of what has gone wrong in America. It must be understood in light of the betrayal and loss of the American dream, the rise of the Corporate State, and the way in which that State dominates, exploits, and ultimately destroys both nature and man. Its rationalit­­­­­­­­­­­­y must be measured against the insanity of existing “reason”—­­­­­­­­­­­­r­e­a­s­o­­n that makes impoverish­­­­­­­­­­­­m­e­n­t­, dehumaniza­­­­­­­­­­­­t­i­o­n­, and even war appear to be logical and necessary.­­­­­­­­­­­­.­.

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By Gabriel, October 18, 2011 at 10:04 pm Link to this comment

Now I’m going to say something which each and every one of you should realize.

This is Not about propping up the old or fixing the old, a hierarchical top down system, the pyramid scheme, a Super Mafia on steroids.

It’s about creating and/or recreating a Horizontal system where EVERYONE is Equal. Each and Every One.

It is how United States FOR America was meant to be, and the rest of the world is Demanding the same.

The sooner you get it, the sooner we can more forward.

Sorry to disappoint you, but You can take all your politics/games and shove it, they won’t matter any more.

Wake up already !!!

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By Gabriel, October 18, 2011 at 9:23 pm Link to this comment

heterochromatic:

What’s the difference between Hierarchical government of USA and India pyramid structure for past 8k yrs? .. None, zero, nil, nada

Both are top down structures with Elites at top and Chattel at bottom. A Machiavellian type construct.

If USA didn’t loose over debts forced on it by Britain from it’s inception then it would be a different story.

Watch and learn [4 parts]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZfvfVbl6A4
It’s similar in USA through more deceptive means.
So there raspberry

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By Gabriel, October 18, 2011 at 9:22 pm Link to this comment

heterochromatic:

What’s the difference between Hierarchical government of USA and India pyramid structure for past 8k yrs? .. None, zero, nil, nada

Both are top down structures with Elites at top and Chattel at bottom. A Machiavellian type construct.

If USA didn’t loose over debts forced on it by Britain from it’s inception then it would be a different story.

Watch and learn [4 parts]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZfvfVbl6A4
It’s similar in USA though more deceptive means.
So there raspberry

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By heterochromatic, October 18, 2011 at 8:43 pm Link to this comment

OzMike, why would you want to print the report?

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2011/10/18/occupy-cleveland-protester-alleges-
she-was-raped/

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By OzarkMichael, October 18, 2011 at 8:37 pm Link to this comment

This is odd.

Truthdig wont let me link to the CBS news story from today “occupy-cleveland-protester-alleges-she-was-raped” It is blocked. I was going to post it elsewhere but it wont work, so i tried on this article and still wont work. The article is ‘blacklisted’. why?

That has never happened to me before. Could someone else try it and see if you can link it? I am actually hoping this is just a glitch. If not, Truthdig is suppressing unsavory news about the Occupation. Maybe somehow they know the story isnt true or something?
 
I am shocked. Cant be. One thing Truthdig has always been is very open and I mean that.

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By heterochromatic, October 18, 2011 at 8:29 pm Link to this comment

@ Gab——-“and the structure of governance and society, say, in u.s, india” hasn’t
changed from 8K years ago?


you really, really, really can’t be meaning to say this….

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By Gabriel, October 18, 2011 at 8:19 pm Link to this comment

LMAO ..

@ RadSon and others

We’ve gone through his before:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/extremely_unctuous_20110711/
.. and many other places on TD.
It’s been fully sourced for your convenience.

If you want to complain then go complain to those whom created the original records.

And the result is:
Fact, There is a faction of users on TD that attack anything that’s not on their agenda or their small perspective of things in their little world. They refuse to learn anything that doesn’t fit their small immediate box that they have been stuck in all their lives. What’s worse is they ignore facts and evidence.

It’s areal Shame that they continue to be ignorant, and ignorant to anyone that shows them more.
Only in America does this happen smile

balkas, October 17 at 4:12 am, clearly substantiates my point and evidence at the start of this thread, as do many others throughout TD.

“the history proves [and not shows] that the more things change, the more they stay the same. and most of our ‘dear leaders’ die peacefully in sleep [?and with a smile on their faces or sense of great accomlishments]
i am not counting how many of them were discarded but do suggest very few do get discarded.

true, ‘nobles’ do not rule europeans and most other earthlings any longer [in arab world they still do, tho] but they have been replaced by same-thinking/doing people in nearly all lands.

and the structure of governance and society, say, in u.s, india [i use india/u.s because they best exemplify that basicly nothing ever changes] has not changed an iota from the time some 8k yrs ago [emphasis added] when the first such structure had been established by priests in mesopotamia and which later or much later ‘nobles’ and priests emulated on three of five continents.”
.. and rest of his comments.

Next time don’t bother to comment if you’re going to be such shills.
Any other forum and you’d be banned for a week or kicked off for good if you didn’t show “substantial evidence” or “proof” of your statements.

Your kind of harassment is unacceptable in today’s society
Note: The whole World is watching smile

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By heterochromatic, October 18, 2011 at 8:06 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

prosefights:

the era of stay in the park, use the bathrooms of the
businesses that serve Wall Street, and have food
donated and delivered via UPS….is an irresistible
historical force?

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By katsteevns, October 18, 2011 at 7:01 pm Link to this comment

The OWS movement is a replay of Shays’ Rebellion, which is what?..... not much more than a footnote in history.

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By prosefights, October 18, 2011 at 6:50 pm Link to this comment

The French Revolution began sensibly, with petitions and peaceful movements. The Estates General was convened. Grievances were heard. Change was promised. A great reform was proposed. And for a while, it looked as though France was on its way to becoming a constitutional democracy, like England, with its monarch and aristocracy still with heads on their shoulders, but with reduced powers. It looked like it might work…a peaceful revolution…an evolution towards a better system, one better suited to the needs of the new capitalistic era, with fewer zombies.

But it was not to be…the zombies dug in their heels. They resisted change…just like the elite always does. They could no more agree to give up their privileges than the elite in Washington today can agree to give up its revenues.

But the show must go on. Entrenched elites do no readily evolve; but history cannot be stopped. The unstoppable force of the Industrial Revolution and the Enlightenment ran right into the immoveable object of the monarchy and the privileged classes. The result? A huge, violent crash. The Committee of Public Safety…the Reign of Terror…and the Napoleonic Wars.

Let’s see what happens.

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By olenska, October 18, 2011 at 6:25 pm Link to this comment

Ms. McLaughlin- You may be interested in an article I wrote for OEN - The Big Club and Their Big Plan
http://www.opednews.com/a/139410?show=votes#allcomments

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By heterochromatic, October 18, 2011 at 6:20 pm Link to this comment

@tman, the OWS people have banking buddies? and treason isn’t easy to prove.

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By tman, October 18, 2011 at 6:12 pm Link to this comment

The OWS should demand this congress resign in mass or face arrestt for treason to the American people. I would like to see them all hanging from a tree along with their banking buddies.

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By Alan MacDonald, October 18, 2011 at 5:39 pm Link to this comment

David J. Cyr 11:04, the difference between Demo liberals claiming to be in favor of the various measures that you note in your reply, and then voting against and burying them in back-room deals that are 180 degrees opposite, and these shills saying publicly that they are “Against Empire” (and want the same as an Occupy movement that has the sense to make being “Against Empire” a litmus test, is that, as I’ve tried to say clearly, merely discussing ‘Empire’—- being against it, for it, or just talking about it—- is the ultimate ‘third rail’ for these slugs, which would make threatening Social Security, Medicare, Defense Spending, and all other taboo subjects look like a Sunday school picnic.

Dems, liberals, deceitful media, MoveOn etc. even mentioning Empire is not the proverbial ‘skunk at the garden party’, but the ‘hand-grenade at their garden party’.  It would blow them all—- and not like Clinton got it.

Best luck, David,

Alan

Liberty & democracy
over
violent/Vichy
empire

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By gerard, October 18, 2011 at 5:04 pm Link to this comment

Speaking of “historians”:  In my book they don’t get a pass as “objective” or “unbiased.”  Some are more “objective” and less “biased” than others, but, bless ‘em all, they recorded what they saw as important enough to record, and neglected the rest, or played it down. They couldn’t record everything, so they made choices, most of which, in one way or another, were “expedient” as they intepreted that word. Sometimes it was money, sometimes it was politics, sometimes it was convenience, or prejudice, or blindness.  They did the best they could, and we can be thankful for that.
  Readers and scholars too, pick out what they want to remember, for their own reasons. The rest gets left out.  We can be thankful, I suppose, that the Internet records more than the Rosetta Stone could. On the other hand, we are missing the Iliad and the Ocyssey—a great loss indeed! Yet even there, the voices of tens of thousands of females are completely and utterly lost. It is as if they never existed!

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By OzarkMichael, October 18, 2011 at 4:35 pm Link to this comment

Annarcissie said:

Ozark Michael—As to rage, I’m just describing what’s in the media; just check out the usual suspects and see for yourself.  As for ‘Days of Rage’ and all that, it does not belong to me. I think you need to work on getting away from fallacies of composition.

Ah, “Days of Rage and all that”. Isnt that what we are talking about?

“Days of Rage and all that” belongs to the “99%”, the “Occupy Wall Street” folks. Seems on topic to me. Seems to be exactly what you were talking about at the time too.

What, you dont the name “Days of Rage” anymore? Why? Does it smack too much of “Storm the Bastille”?

You cant erase the facts. You cant insult your way out of them either.

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By heterochromatic, October 18, 2011 at 4:31 pm Link to this comment

ardee, if you remember the police response to the anti-war protests of the 60s
and witnessed the NYPD response to the OWS protest, how would you say that the
NYPD has handled 30+ days?

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By ardee, October 18, 2011 at 4:24 pm Link to this comment

C.Curtis.Dillon, October 18 at 8:29 am

I thoughtful reply deserves one in return.

I think discussing our resident right winger is a silly waste of time. All are free to read and form opinions. I do see your words as pretty darn accurate though.

As a veteran of the anti war protest movement, from my return from Vietnam in ‘67 through the seventies, I have a bit of insight into what emotions run through a protester and what responses one might expect from the officers present.

I do not claim to have seen every confrontation, and those I have seen are subject to much interpretation. I do seem to recall seeing several instances of violence from the white shirts (Lieutenants and up) and one particular pepper spraying of a woman for no apparent reason from a blue shirted officer.

But these were film clips not generally in depth. I do hope that the movement remains non violent as we cannot win a violent confrontation with the police, nor should we try. If we wish to arouse the sleeping electorate education not testosterone must win the day.

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By ardee, October 18, 2011 at 4:05 pm Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, October 18 at 10:34 am

Just couldn’t manage even handedness now could you? I am far from surprised and even further from offended.

You are, sadly, a prejudiced one dimensional thinker who churns out propaganda on the ragged edge of silliness and make blanket statements about all involved in a nationwide protest without the slightest concern for your own repute.

Are you channeling Bill O’Reilly?

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By heterochromatic, October 18, 2011 at 3:51 pm Link to this comment

radson, it’s also true that Gabby was burned to death in the Alexandria library fire.

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By radson, October 18, 2011 at 3:30 pm Link to this comment

Gabriel :Is that why you were stabbed ,shot at and tortured ,because your only a Historian looking for the Truth ,at the Vatican and all the other major Libraries of the West and the World in general .Also your a so -called Winter survival expert from Canada ;now that’s according to your own postings along with a difficult ascension up the intelligence ladder in the Spook community .Sounds a lot like ‘True Lies ’ the movie and the yahoo at the edge of the dam.

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By Gabriel, October 18, 2011 at 1:14 pm Link to this comment

re: heterochromatic

Like i said in the other thread and many times before:

“Hey, i’m just a historian, digging through records is my forte. You should look at them sometime: Library of Congress, National Archives, European Archives, Vatican Archives, Jewish Archives, Middle East Archives, Asian Archives etc. etc.
Then we have archeology and rest of sciences. It’s amazing what you can find if you get off your butt and look smile
Especially in those out of way corners and rooms of museums.”

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By radson, October 18, 2011 at 12:49 pm Link to this comment

The OWS Rising ,is not a Political Hockey Game ,it has nothing to do with traditional Right Wing tendencies ,it has nothing to do with traditional Left Wing tendencies either .The Centre’s are usually fed by either the Right Wings or the Left Wings and President Obama is no exception .The Defense on the other hand are the likes of Goldman Sachs (a lovely German Yiddish combo) and the other Electronic Money Shifters ,
like AIG ,Chase Man. and the Swiss cronies .The Referees are no other than Standard and Poors or depending on your mood at the time by Moody’s ,Fitch by the way could fetch the ball.The Goal keepers on the other hand is where the threat to the Planet exists ,they are the ones that very few talk about or mention ,they are the ones that initiated the First World War ,the Second World War ,the Korean War and the Cold War that followed .They are known as the Rockefellers in America ,they are known as the Rothschild’s in Europe and all the Monarchies sing the same tune ,because they are the Gods of Money .

cheers

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By heterochromatic, October 18, 2011 at 12:40 pm Link to this comment

@Gabriel, thank you for telling us about things on whatever planet it is that you’re
familiar with.

Most of us get so wrapped up with events on Earth that we never get around to
reading about other people’s planets.

Thanks again and get home safely.

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By David J. Cyr, October 18, 2011 at 11:04 am Link to this comment

QUOTE, Alan MacDonald:

“So, David, how do you imagine that Obama himself, or any Demo, or any proxy for the Demo, liberal phonies could frame, package, and say (even with the help of Frank ‘the wordsmith liar’ Luntz) that they are “Against Empire” if Occupy takes the position that America has been captured by and actually IS the Empire??”
____________________

Same as usual.

Did liberals claim to be proponents of perpetual war when they voted for corporate party Democrats who took prosecution of war criminals off the table, and continued perpetuating perpetual war? No, the “necessary” and “humanitarian” war waging liberals claimed they voted to end all “dumb” wars.

Did the liberals claim to be opposed to America’s sick ProfitCare medical system? No, they claimed to support Single-Payer, while they voted for corporate party Democrats who made ProfitCare even sicker by mandating that everyone must purchase insurance from corporations that have no care for their health.

Did the liberals claim to consider torture to be acceptable? No, but they voted for the Democrats who won’t even discuss closure of John F. Kennedy’s School of the Americas; and they voted for the Democrats who removed the legal limitations that the Cheney/Bush regime had placed upon torture, so that now the torture is done without any limitations — liberal sensibilities pleasingly done out-of-sight-out-of-liberal-minds, in undisclosed “Black site” locations that “suspects” are now discretely disappeared to.

Did the liberals who in a manic craze feverishly supported the most “historic” heavily financed corporate person owned candidate, Obama, claim that they were supporting corporate person decided rigged election installation? No, the liberal voters keep claiming that getting more corporate party Democrats installed is the only means to possibly end the absolutely corrupt corporatocracy that their (D) dedication provided, and continues to protect and serve.

The corporate party (D) dedicated liberals can be relied upon to vote against whatever good policies they pretend to support, while claiming that they fiercely oppose every evil that they regularly (D) vote for.

http://www.chenangogreens.org

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By OzarkMichael, October 18, 2011 at 10:34 am Link to this comment

ardee said:

Please post any link to the use of force by the OWS folks. I am unaware of the use of said force by Tea Party advocates and have never accused them of such.

When i said force you are thinking that I meant violence. I can tell that you are trying to be fair about this and even handed, so i must respond in kind.

Ok, you are right in the sense that there is no violent force involved. However, the act of ‘Occupying’ a private space is a type of force, perhaps permissible. Its a force much lesser than violence, true. OWS hoped to ‘occupy’ a bridge, and that is an escalation to more force, although still well short of violence, yes.

Yet do the Occupiers intend to vote in an election to cause the change they hope for? No. They stated as much from day one. That means force and only force is their method. You will call it a different name I know. Still, what are their next options to bring about the change they desire?

Now that Occupy Wall Street has become “Too big to fail”, we must assume that their “Hope” must not be frustrated, or else something bad will happen…  That was a prediction of mine from the beginning, but it is no longer a prediction.

“Storm the Bastille” has been mentioned by Anarcissie, and more importantly by Amy Goodman, our celebrated Truthdigger of the week for her coverage of the 99%:

When forces used to having the ear of the most powerful person on earth whisper their demands in the Oval Office, the president must see a force more powerful outside his window, whether he likes it or not, and say, “If I do that, they will storm the Bastille.”

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/a_new_bush_era_or_a_push_era_20111011/

So we must meet OWS demands. For the threat of Bastille, whether it is “prescribed” or “descibed” (as Anarcissue so delicately differentiates) is still an escalation of force, it is at best a delicate threat of violence. And if you think the eventual arrival of OWS to that threat is an accident, a coincidence, then you are very niave. One thing for sure… the threat itself is a higher amount of force used to get what you want and calling that democracy.

OWS wishes to “Co-opt the cops”. That too is a type of force, whereby an institution above politics is suborned to abandon their oath to uphold the law and take up one political group’s cause.

All of these actions and threats are variations of and escalations of force that Leftists seem to assume is their special prerogative as human beings with ultimate potential.  “This is what democracy looks like” they chant as they bang their drums.

Such force, such ultimate potential, if employed by me, oh dear you would not call that democracy. You would call it fascism. All of you would. All of you have.

That is your hypocrisy, that is a your double standard. Not merely of words as we have argued about for four years here, but now today you finally cross the threshod of action. And as the Leftist action goes farther, this OWS method of force could gain success… then what?

Have you thought this through? Obviously not yet.

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By gregorylkruse, October 18, 2011 at 10:09 am Link to this comment

The power of the corporations has yet to be even tickled by the global demonstrations, but the reaction of the powers that reside in them, expressed by the police, is as intense as if a damaging blow has already been struck.  I can’t be too concerned about co-optation when there are so few people in the street as yet.  Unless everyone puts his or her petite concerns aside and joins the crowd, a critical mass will not be reached and the movement will fizzle like a dud. There must be enough people in the street to stress the police, the CIA, and the Special OPs.  It must be nonviolent and self-controlled.  It must be the corporatists who snap, not the protesters.

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By denny g, October 18, 2011 at 9:31 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Amen Chris!!!

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By Alan MacDonald, October 18, 2011 at 9:07 am Link to this comment

RenZo, Empire proceeds from a long history of a small percentage (about 1%) of “Empire-thinking”, which comports with sociopathy (also about 1%), which MAY include greed, violence, lack of ability to feel empathy, deceit, guilefulness, self-importance (elitism), etc. etc.

Thanks for your confirmation of Empire being a pathology that make diagnosis of the disease difficult by the skill of the disease in camouflaging itself from detection (like cancer) and lack of any ability to show concern for the host organism (also like cancer), which is a great way of using the 2nd Renaissance ability of “analogy-thinking” (beyond merely rational linear thought, to diagnose issues.

As Morris Berman quoted Zygmunt Bauman in “Dark Ages America: The Final Phase of Empire” presciently saying, “In the case of an ailing social order, the absence of an adequate diagnosis .. is a crucial, perhaps decisive, part of the disease”.

Certainly, RenZo, we are experiencing an “ailing social order” on a global basis, as well as in the America today, and the rarely diagnosed casual element of this pathology is a cancerous global corporate/financial/militarist Empire, which has stealthily ‘captured’ our former country, by hiding behind the facade of its bought and owned TWO-Party ‘Vichy’ sham of democracy and a supposedly free-press.

As long as we, non-sociopaths, which the Occupy movement accurately calls the 99%, recognize, explain, expose, and ultimately excise this cancerous tumor of disguised global Empire, then we are making progress, rather than damning the darkness of minds that do not recognize the pathology, or of those posing as being among us who are actively turning off the light or drawing the blinds to aid the progress of the disease.

Best luck in being on the right side of this epochal time in history of the fight between Empire and democratic self-government and equality for all.

Alan

Liberty & democracy
over
violent/Vichy
empire

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By Inherit The Wind, October 18, 2011 at 9:02 am Link to this comment

CCD:
The bigots didn’t come with signs about Irish dominance of Wall Street.
You don’t see the bigots with signs about Indians on Wall Street.
You don’t see the bigots with signs about Arabs on Wall Street.
You don’t see the bigots with signs about Italians on Wall Street.
You don’t see the bigots with signs about Mormons on Wall Street.
You don’t see the bigots with signs about Anglo-Saxons on Wall Street.
Yet all these groups have placed SIGNIFICANT people in powerful positions, some going to jail, some running for President.

No, all you see are classic signs about Jewish involvement in Wall Street—and you happily play into that stereotype with the Rothschilds.  Yet you are silent on J.P. Morgan’s attempt to do EXACTLY THE SAME THING!  In fact, all of the World War I loans made by anybody and everybody in the United States to England and France passed through the only conduit available: The House of Morgan.

After that war, there was a banking war between the US banks on the one side, and the British banks and Morgan on the other side. Why? Because the BRITISH BANKS controlled all international finance.  BRITISH!!!

Don’t believe me? One of the very best works on the subject is by Stepnen Schuker: The End of French Predominance in Europe: The Financial Crisis of 1924 and the Adoption of the Dawes Plan (Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina Press, 1976)

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By heterochromatic, October 18, 2011 at 9:00 am Link to this comment

Emile, I’m not sure that I implied that OWS is going to fail, and I am sure that I
didn’t say it or think it, but thanks for the music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQgKraWASE0&feature=related

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By Anarcissie, October 18, 2011 at 8:53 am Link to this comment

Ozark Michael—As to rage, I’m just describing what’s in the media; just check out the usual suspects and see for yourself.  As for ‘Days of Rage’ and all that, it does not belong to me.  I think you need to work on getting away from fallacies of composition.

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By RenZo, October 18, 2011 at 8:36 am Link to this comment

Empire proceeds from greed, and the desire for Kapital impells Empire. Not the reverse, not in any sense except that greed is addictive and more is never enough.

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By C.Curtis.Dillon, October 18, 2011 at 8:29 am Link to this comment

Ardee:

One can only hope that the youth are better in their understanding of hatred than their parents. It is the one thing that keeps me going when I look at the present.

As for your ongoing argument with OM, I can only point out the heated and sometimes violent town hall meetings where the TP folk drowned out all other voices and sometimes resorted to violence to make their point. OM doesn’t seem to want to admit that some extreme violence (Oklahoma City comes to mind) has come from the right in the not so distant past. Both extremes in the political debate are violent by their nature, being impatient to force their designs on all of us. I renounce both left wing and right wing violence and I should hope OM does also. By focusing exclusively on only one extreme he does himself and all of us a huge disservice.

Continuing on this thread, there has been little provocation of the police by these protestors. Given that police deal with violent offenders almost every day and endure tremendous verbal and physical abuse, one would assume these law enforcement professionals would be so trained that it would take some pretty extreme provocation to get them as angry as they seem to be at the protestors. Could it be that the protestors are getting under their skins or that they are under instructions to tolerate nothing from the assembled youth? I would suggest that is more likely the real cause for the one sided violence. The white shirts know all to well that the rank and file are at least somewhat sympathetic to these kids who are fighting for all our collective futures and are pushing their men hard to keep them in line. I’m continually amazed at how aggressive the white shirts are. Are they leading by example? Or are they just angry and intent on exacting some revenge on these kids? I have yet to see a blue shirt make the first move. And that marine sergeant certainly had their attention in Time Square the other day. It must have been truly embarrassing to have a marine vet lecturing them about honor and respect. They looked truly dumfounded at his words.

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By Alan MacDonald, October 18, 2011 at 8:04 am Link to this comment

David J. Cyr 6:55, while I am very impressed with your comments, and believe you to be one of the most informed posters here, I do not clearly understand your latest reply to my comment and suggestion that Occupy would be co-option proof if it declared to be overtly “Against Empire” (in addition to all manner of other issues it is considered).

You say that the Dems, faux-libs, etc. are great at “faking sincerity” (of which I agree), BUT they can’t “fake sincerity” of being “Against Empire”—- like they, and Obama, can fake being against Wall Street, etc.—- because they (and Obama) cannot even bring up, discuss, debate, or entertain the deadly question of whether America IS an EMPIRE, let alone admit that it is (which Hedges, Parenti, Chomsky, Zinn, Wolin, presummably YOU, and certainly I know that it IS.

So, David, how do you imagine that Obama himself, or any Demo, or any proxy for the Demo, liberal phonies could frame, package, and say (even with the help of Frank ‘the wordsmith liar’ Luntz) that they are “Against Empire” if Occupy takes the position that America has been captured by and actually IS the Empire??

The co-opter who you fear are the EMPIRE that Occupy would declare as being overtly against. 

So, how could the Empire declare itself to be “Against Empire”, and thus against itself?

It confounds me, how this could be done, even by a world class liar like Obama.

Could Hitler have said, “I’m Against the Nazi Empire”?  Even too big a lie for him to pull off.

What I’m proposing is that Occupy declare itself against the Empire that now is posing and controlling our country.  That would mean that Obama would have to admit, “I’m a phony president of this charade of Empire calling itself your country, and I’m now here to help you excise the Empire I work for.”  Which would be a hard second act even for him.

Just wondering.

Good luck and love to Occupy and Hedges and everyone who supports Occupy and is “Against Empire”,

Alan

Liberty & democracy
over
violent/Vichy (hidden in America)
empire

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By ardee, October 18, 2011 at 8:02 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, October 18 at 6:58 am

Michael , Can you possibly be even half as obtuse as your posts indicate?

Please post any link to the use of force by the OWS folks. I am unaware of the use of said force by Tea Party advocates and have never accused them of such. There certainly are, however, advocates of left and right who preach violence, and those who, in our past have committed such.

I find that you engage a double standard and resort to some rather fine lines of illogical conclusions far, far too often.

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By OzarkMichael, October 18, 2011 at 8:02 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie said:

Going by what I see on blogs and mailing lists, the cooptation engines of the Democratic Party and its satellites are running full blast, playing soft cop to the Right’s hard cop of rage, abuse and slander.

First, rage is the card you played to fire up your own side. “Days of Rage”, remember? I suppose your purity makes Rage a good thing?

Now you reserve not only the method(of force) for your side, but even human emotions(rage) are virtues for your side, but you deny such virtue to the Other.

Such dehumanizing by Leftists is insidious, and if Occupy Wall Street succeeds it will only get worse.

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By ardee, October 18, 2011 at 7:58 am Link to this comment

C.Curtis.Dillon, October 18 at 7:33 am

Thank you for your thoughtful and in depth response. I have always believed in a confrontational response to bigotry , granted that my New York upbringing makes me generally prone to sarcasm and skepticism.

Your belief that the bigotry will die a natural death if we just wait it out has a certain merit in that the current generation seems rather blind to the bigotry that has plagued us for so long. I find my grandchildren’s generation to be genuinely color blind, a very hopeful sign I think.

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By groobiecat, October 18, 2011 at 7:53 am Link to this comment

Sorry: this is the URL I meant to post:

http://youtu.be/o-1TdemR7_Q

Chris Hedges displaying humility and brilliance re: the OWS…

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By groobiecat, October 18, 2011 at 7:51 am Link to this comment

Now, see, I disagree with the the virulence of the attack on the generic and
academically defined “liberal class.” It’s too broad a brush stroke, and doesn’t
account for human frailty—it ascribes a sort of knowing conspiracy that I don’t
think exists among the vast majority of the so-called liberal class. Please, Chris,
do a better job of defining this; otherwise, it just comes across as an attack,
which isn’t what’s needed here.

Now *this* is brilliant. This is what got me engaged with you as a thought-
leader of the movement:

http://www.adbusters.org/abtv/occupy-wall-st-vs-fox-news.html

This is freaking brilliant. I need to read *more* of this in your writings and
*less* of the finger pointing at an inept and ineffectual (but not intentional, as
you imply) “liberal class.”

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By RenZo, October 18, 2011 at 7:38 am Link to this comment

@ OzarkMichael [October 18 at 5:48]

“Why does denial of transcendence always inflate hubris to the point that you think limitations (which you apply to others) no longer apply to you? “

I do not deny transcendence, and I am not antitheistic, just apatheistic. 

If you think my belief in humanity is hubris, what does that make your belief in being made in the image of (the transcendent, timeless, unlimited, formless, unknowable, unreachable, eternal, etc) ‘god’?

Focus on human life, not afterlife, on us, not them, on now, not forever, and you can help to feed cloth and care for the least among us, as Christ preached.

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By Charles Fitzsimmons, October 18, 2011 at 7:36 am Link to this comment

It is easy to underestimate the importance of these
grass-roots protests, and also easy to cite inane
comments by some of the participants to belittle
them. To me these protests are a foretaste of what is
to come; the protesters, despite their small numbers,
represent a significant segment of the population:
people who feel disenfranchised within their own
society, and who are frustrated by the fact that
politicians and the media rarely, if ever, address
the problems that affect the very fabric of their,
and their children’s lives and futures.

To protest in this way is to perform an act for the
good of society. It is to make a statement that the
existing political and economic structure exacts a
very large toll on ordinary people while securing for
them a derisory amount of benefit in relation to its
human cost.

There is a simple principle at the root of these
protests that gives them their power and will cause
them to re-occur with ever-increasing severity until
it is addressed. It is justice. Justice means to
choose for your neighbour what you would choose for
yourself. The quest for political or economic
dominance over others requires that this simple
principle be set aside. How can you achieve power
over others unless you choose something better for
yourself that what you choose for them?

The moral legitimacy of any and all institutions of
society has been destroyed by their self-serving and
manipulative behaviour. ‘Maybe people won’t notice if
we out-source their jobs to China?’ ‘Maybe they won’t
notice if we collude with our competitors to control
and manipulate the marketplace, and buy the favours
of politicians to make sure we can keep our hammer-
lock on the markets?’ ‘Hey, we’ll just give them beer
and circuses to distract them while we loot society,
ruin their pensions, destroy their jobs, and pollute
the planet. Maybe they won’t get it?’ ‘How’s this -
we tax the peons working at fast-food chains to fund
gold-plated salaries and pensions for all of us. Then
we tell them they’re a burden on society because
they’re poor, and to sit down and shut up?
Brilliant!’

Well, some have noticed and they do get it. The
people in the public squares are the first of us,
maybe the best of us. They are the tip of the
iceberg. The foundation on which their protests are
based is injustice, and that’s not going away any
time soon. We’ll be seeing more of them, and when we
do, I hope that the media will not seek out the least
able spokespersons and entrap them in foolish
questions so that they can be held up to ridicule. I
hope that reporters will try to understand what’s
going on, and have the courage to be objective, as
some do. Because misleading the public about the root
cause of these protests is a dis-service to all of
us.

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By C.Curtis.Dillon, October 18, 2011 at 7:33 am Link to this comment

Ardee:

I don’t worry too much about it because there is little that can be done to change it. Ever since WW2 people have cried out about the antisemitism and nothing has changed. Those who hold that view will continue to hold it while those who know it is nonsense will not. I’ve not changed one opinion on this website in all the years I’ve been writing here and I don’t expect that to be any different in the future.

I think the occupy movement has, for the most part, done a good job of keeping the hatred under control and I expect that will continue. A bit of anger and hatred will always be there and there is no way to get rid of it. It is also foolish to make to big a deal out of it because you only bring out the hatred and encourage those who hold that view to become even more vocal. If a few signs in the extent of the hatred I’m not going to lose much sleep about it.

That said, you do bring up an interesting point. During the war, Hitler and his thugs killed a lot more than just Jews. The Roma and many other minorities were also systematically exterminated and yet, almost nothing has been said about these atrocities. I’m deeply saddened by what happened to the Jews in Europe but am also very aware that others suffered similar fates. Living in Eastern Europe, I see every day the monuments to the Russians and other Slavic groups that were exterminated by Hitler’s monsters. In Kiev, there is a place (Babyi Yar) where 33 thousand Jews were slaughtered in a single day (the most anywhere during the war). Over the years of Soviet occupation, over 100K people were buried in the deep ravines of the park. Jews, Roma, mental patients from the nearby hospital and others were all brought there and shot.

As for the financial collapse, I saw early on that the crimes were spread across all ethnic and faith groups. Fraud is something we are all capable of. This collapse was not a Jewish problem but one of greed by everyone involved. In that regard I agree with you. I just view this drone about antisemitism as another way of discrediting the movement by screaming “fire” in the theatre. Much as I don’t like to see these signs, do we really want the movement to start being politically correct? Once the censorship begins, where does it stop?

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By cstanwood, October 18, 2011 at 7:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Too much OWS analysis is focused on “immediate goals” - lazy thinking that ignores the fact that our most pressing problems began decades ago, so they may take decades to resolve. By invoking “immediate goals” TV deep thinkers get to dismiss Wall Street protestors as not serious.

This will be a long struggle. Real wages for middle income workers flat-lined over thirty years ago. That’s not going to change tomorrow. And don’t look to Washington for help.

Instead, long-term actions designed to maximize our power as consumers should be examined. If our role as consumers created rich and powerful, then our power can un-make them. If banking with BofA made people rich, remove your money (deal only with local banks). This WILL hurt them. Not overnight. Not next year or the next. But be assured that they will hurt.

Think long-term about how you live, the businesses you deal with, and your purchases. Look towards buying a smaller car that gets better gas mileage. The less money you spend on gas the less that goes to BP, Exxon Mobile, etc.

Conserve - hang laundry outside to dry, start a vegetable garden, ditch the leaf blower and the weed wacker and use a broom instead. Invest in local businesses only. Prop them up, not some faceless conglomerate that will screw you the moment they get the chance. Watch your health.

Remember, in a consumer society WE have the power. It’ll take a while, but The People will prevail.

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By Anarcissie, October 18, 2011 at 7:07 am Link to this comment

As to cooptation, I’m afraid I have to agree with David Cyr.  Going by what I see on blogs and mailing lists, the cooptation engines of the Democratic Party and its satellites are running full blast, playing soft cop to the Right’s hard cop of rage, abuse and slander.  But maybe they’ll fail.

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By Anarcissie, October 18, 2011 at 7:00 am Link to this comment

Ozark Michael—Isn’t the apprehension and profession of particular instances of transcendence a form of hubris?

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By OzarkMichael, October 18, 2011 at 6:58 am Link to this comment

“This Occupy Wall Street is not participating in voting to propel change, is it? No. It is a little force. That is what makes it attractive to the crusader in you.”

After taking an admirable position regarding the attempts by some to force their religious tenets upon the rest of us you ruin the moment by absolutely garbling the fact of the OWS movement.

                -ardee

You think i am ruining the conversation by applying symmetry between myself and yourself? That equality between us ‘garbles’ the conversation?

As I said, you can deeply see the problem if i use force for my cause. You are completely unaware that for your cause the same use of force is also a problem.

Hypocrisy has a symmetry all its own.

I set the table in my last post with a perfect symmetry, a mirror image. Myself eschewing force to enforce my beliefs on one side, while you you embrace force for your beliefs on the other. I made that perfectly clear.

Yet you do not hesitate. You happily apply limitations to me and my belief, you think it is ‘admirable’ that we Christians do not use force to propel our most deeply held convictions. But upon your own belief and your own self you do not apply the limitation.

Do you think that we Christians limit ourselves to voting(and not force) because we understand that our beliefs are inferior to yours? You are very wrong.

Do you think that religious people will accept second class status in the world you are hoping to build? You are sadly mistaken.

If you think that you Leftists can use force because your cause is superior to ours, well, you are free to believe that of yourselves…. but do you really expect us to accept that?

Think about the consequences of what you say and do.

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By David J. Cyr, October 18, 2011 at 6:55 am Link to this comment

QUOTE, Alan MacDonald:

“The deceivers, co-opters, and similar phonies trying to hang onto Occupy’s coat tails can not ever, ever, dare to even imply that they are in solidarity with an Occupy goal…”
____________________

Well, unfortunately… Yes They Can!

Faking sincerity is what the corporate party’s (D) dedicated liberals are most accomplished at. Pursuit of perfection in deceitfulness is the most avid avocation of the “progressive” liberals.

http://www.chenangogreens.org

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By Greg, October 18, 2011 at 6:41 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Capitalism and Corporatism are not the same thing. The greatest danger in capitalism is that it can lead to corporatism through govt subsidy, regulation and control. Corporatism is what we are against. Pure unfettered capitalism would lead to affordable health care. It is the quasi-state of a highly subsidized industry that has paved the way to crisis and an increase in costs of 15% / year since 1965. If want affordable education then we want the govt to stop subsidizing and driving up the costs meanwhile fattening their admin payrolls and pensions at our expense and using teachers as political footballs.

Pretend you are a business owner. The govt decides that your prices are too high for the market place so it offers your customers a stipend. What happens to your prices?

What of the regulation under the Clinton Admin that required banks to accept “no doc” loans? Was this one of Barney Frank’s strict regulations? What of the Federal Reserve’s holding a monopoly on our currency with no checks whatsoever. This is NOT free market capitalism! In a free market interest rates would fluctuate based on demand, yet our interest rate is held by decree. This is the opposite of FREE!

Wealth distribution can happen more effectively under the guidelines of free and competing currencies, a revolution in the understanding of monetary policy and the real value of investing in our own locally owned communities.

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By Robert Colgan, October 18, 2011 at 6:30 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I wish that I understood what anyone means when they
apply the labels of “liberal” or “conservative” to
human action——-both of which are meaningful to me
only in the given context they are used.

Even here, Hedges is lambasting “liberals” as
turncoats to effective populism…. but it was the
“neocons” who were actually the “libs” who seized
America for their own nefarious agenda…..yet they
are identified with “conservatives” and are never
allied with people like Kucinich or Sanders who would never have stooped to such fiscal/military/political madness and who are
regarded as liberals by many…?
None of the labels effectively relay information.

The concept of liberal and conservative in political
discourse leaves me cold——-true conservatism is
sane and safe, true liberalism refutes policies
antithetic to true conservatism, yet in so doing is
acting completely conservative.

I would much rather if everyone would just go with
the relatively black/white labels of “life
empowering” or “life denying” to denote those who
side with the rights of biological sanity or deny
biological sanity.

That way I can easily identify philosophical bent.
Much easier for me.
But “liberal/conservative” or “left/right”...? I am
using my left hand and my right hand to type this ..
. . both hands are useful and appropriate to my
needs. Claiming one is “wrong” or one is “correct”
doesn’t make sense at all.

Maybe it’s just me….maybe I’m out of the loop on
this one…......

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By Alan MacDonald, October 18, 2011 at 6:20 am Link to this comment

Much as I love him, and much as he has previously addressed Empire, Hedges is too much focusing repeatedly here on the “corporate state” and “capitalism” instead of the real and causal Empire that underlays, the corporate-state, and capitalism, and wars, and vast economic inequality, and environmental destruction, and social injustice, and, and, etc. etc. ...

Here Chris rightly talks of and applauds “class conflict and rebellion” in the Occupy movement, and reminds us that we have to speak in the terms that Marx did, reminding us that, “as Marx knew, unfettered capitalism is a revolutionary force that consumes greater and greater numbers of human lives until it finally consumes itself.”

Yes, Chris, a prime tenet and foundational principle of Marxism and socialism is that “capitalism is the highest (and last) stage of class war”.  BUT, Chris, you of all people should know that the underlying and first stage of class war has always been EMPIRE.

What has happened of the last millennia of Western history is merely that EMPIRE has become more stealthy in its continued prosecution of that class warfare.  Empire has become guileful and hides itself behind the facade of so-called “Westernizing or modernizing” the rest to the colonial world that it proceeds to loot—- as the British Empire did.  And Empire has become deceitful, as the Nazi Empire was in the Second World War of Empires, when it captured, occupied, and set-up a ‘Vichy’ government in France to disguise Empire’s inexorable appetite for plunder, oppression, looting, centralized control, violence, elitism, hierarchy, domination, etc. etc.  And now this vastly more sophisticated, disguised, and camouflaged corporate/financial/militarist global Empire, which has more quietly captured our former country, by hiding behind the facade of its bought and owned TWO-Party Vichy sham of democratic government (and media PR), uses the charades of ‘humanitarian concern’, and ‘democracy projects’, and Bush-like ‘freedom agenda’ lies to employ the very same old violence, looting, oppression, centralized control, elitism, and “Empire-thinking” that Empire’s have always used in their continuing class warfare against the 99% of the people——and to do so both “abroad” and “at home” as Hannah Arendt presciently warned of the Nazi Empire.

So, Chris, yes, the language of Marx fingering ‘capitalism’ as the highest/last form of class warfare is a very valid point, but let’s keep burning in our minds and out language that EMPIRE is the fundamental and underlying lowest/first principle of class war—- and that it is still going on, is only better hidden, and that it will employ tools of class war that capitalism shies away form, most notably, violence.  Which is why Occupy should tactically and strategically include in its goals, demands, agenda, and LANGUAGE that it is also “Against Empire” [Parenti, et al] and against the violence that Empire may well, but indirectly employ in trying to defend empire itself.

This is the primary tactical reason that OWS needs to clearly articulate that it is a movement “Against Empire”——which includes being against Wall Street, against vast economic inequality, against social injustice, against imperialist wars, against environmental destruction, etc. etc. etc…....

The deceivers, co-opters, and similar phonies trying to hang onto Occupy’s coat tails can not ever, ever, dare to even imply that they are in solidarity with an Occupy goal, demand, agenda which is overtly “Against Empire”—- because they DARE not even whisper the word ‘empire’ since they ARE IT!!!


Best luck and love to Occupy

Alan MacDonald

Liberty & democracy
over
violent/Vichy
empire

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By David J. Cyr, October 18, 2011 at 5:59 am Link to this comment

As long as Wall St. can confidently rely upon 99% of the “99%” to continue to vote for the corporate (R) & (D) party candidates, to continue the continuum of corporate person policies, then the BIG Money that owns the corporate-state government has nothing to fear from “99%” demonstrations.

Consider the history of the “antiwar” UFPJ, which only served to GOTV for Democrats to make perpetual war be liberal acceptable, by merely relabeling what was “dumb” when Republicans did it to now be considered “necessary” and “humanitarian” when Democrats do it… with greater reliance upon robotic equipment.

The Money that has the Power to own all of the corporate (R) & (D) party voters’ servile loyalty doesn’t care whether the majority of that 129 million sheeple wants (R)s or (D)s to get the corporate-state’s evil done — same shit served, either way it’s wrapped.

http://www.chenangogreens.org

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By OzarkMichael, October 18, 2011 at 5:48 am Link to this comment

“Why does faith in invisible deities always diminish faith in humanity?” asks RenZo.

Why does denial of transcendence always inflate hubris to the point that you think limitations(which you apply to others) no longer apply to you?

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By katsteevns, October 18, 2011 at 5:27 am Link to this comment

One of the main traits of capitalism is that it prevents people from sustaining themselves. They must then depend on the wage. Libya is being transformed into a “free market” society as we speak. We are in there for the oil. Gaddafi has been in charge for 30 years, why would he wait to now to start massacring his people…..ridiculous!!... NATO weapons are far more efficient…...It’s Yugoslavia all over again.

Trouble is, we Americans think that war is a necessary evil…..too bad….we could have been great.

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By groobiecat, October 18, 2011 at 5:26 am Link to this comment

@Mark S

“They say that my vote is my voice, but the candidates are in a lying contest,
and the election is comprised of corporate sponsors, hanging chads, and voting
machines made by partisan software geeks.” 

Well, I was watching Rachel Maddow last night—she’s a liberal who’s done more
than 1,000 Chris Hedges in terms of shining a light on the increasingly
conservative world we live in. She had Barney Frank on her show—another
liberal!!—who asked a good question: Where was #OWS two years ago when he
was trying to get tough regulations on wall street enacted? Good question.

He also suggested that the Tea Party was successful not just because they
marched and held rallies—but because they converted that power into actual
votes. And they have held the US House of Representatives hostage since then.

One thing I haven’t heard from Hedges—other than vitriol demonizing weakling
liberals (btw, who do you think the people in #OWS are comprised of? Mostly
Ron Paul supporters? No. Fed up liberals. Right? Right.)—is how to translate this
power into policy changes. Pedantic vicious attacks is what we have. No
solutions. What? Tear down the capitol? is that “The Plan”?

Waiting for some even handed intelligent discourse, and not populist anti-
liberal rhetoric…

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By Mark S, October 18, 2011 at 5:10 am Link to this comment

Chris, you’ve gone off the left edge.  We welcome you here with open arms.  I was raised in a politically liberal family, and for years have been drifting lefter, while they appeared to be creepily creeping rightly.  US politics have always When I was voting for Ralph Nadar, or David Kucinich at every opportunity, they dutifully argued that I was “wasting my vote.”  In hind-sight it was they who wasted their votes, while I was just wasting time voting.  They say that my vote is my voice, but the candidates are in a lying contest, and the election is comprised of corporate sponsors, hanging chads, and voting machines made by partisan software geeks.  I never voted on that. Viva la Revolucion!

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By ardee, October 18, 2011 at 5:08 am Link to this comment

C.Curtis.Dillon, October 18 at 2:02 am

Much ado about…something.

Your dismissive attitude about the sensitivity to some regarding slurs is, to me, rather wrongheaded. That you mention the Rothschild Banking Family caused me to consider that, during this era of financial scandal heaped upon banking crimes and topped with stock certificate abuses ( derivatives), not a single mention was made of the many Protestants and Catholics involved in such criminal activity.

Why do you suppose that would be true?

Oh dear,OzarkMichael I fear you might harm yourself with this bit of mental gymnastics:

This Occupy Wall Street is not participating in voting to propel change, is it? No. It is a little force. That is what makes it attractive to the crusader in you.

After taking an admirable position regarding the attempts by some to force their religious tenets upon the rest of us you ruin the moment by absolutely garbling the fact of the OWS movement.

The folks around this nation who are rising up to protest the corporate ownership of our government have done so in total passivity and non violence. In fact, the only violence shown thus far has been from the NYC police dept. and ,I hasten to add, by only a very few of those so far.

Yet you insist upon labeling them as some sort of “force”. I guess your ammunition grows scarce to have to undertake such mental gymnastics.

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By Gabriel, October 18, 2011 at 3:03 am Link to this comment

“anti-semites”?

LMAO ... see comment here [facts included]:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/which_side_are_you_on_20111013/#432665

Truth hurts, doesn’t it?

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By C.Curtis.Dillon, October 18, 2011 at 2:02 am Link to this comment

ITW:

You want to see jew hating, go to InformationClearingHouse.info where every article generates a snowstorm of hate and bigotry. Truthdig is tame compared to that site or a host of others out there. And I agree some of those signs show some antisemitism but they are hardly that bad. Especially the one about the Rothchilds. You do understand that the first bankers who attempted to take over the world’s money supply was the Rothchild family? Please don’t throw around the antisemitic charge with such gay abandon. It grows increasingly tired and carries far less weight when it is used too often. Accept that a few antisemitic slurs might show up but they do not detract from the larger message. And the New York group threw out a few protestors who created signs that were offensive.

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By EmileZ, October 17, 2011 at 11:00 pm Link to this comment

@ heterochromatic

You are probably right. OWS is doomed to fail miserably. They obviuosly have got it all wrong. They are a bunch of immature youngsters who don’t know anything about life. It didn’t work before, why should it work now???

OWS is SHIT!!!

Sure they put on a fancy show, but all of us older folks can do nothing better than to stand back and criticize them for their own good, then when they fail they will come crawling back and we can greet them with genuine sympathy and understanding.

All is not well in the house of Zuccotti park.

No harm in standing up and telling it like it is.

I admire you so much!!!

Ha Ha Ha!!!

Cynical superiority… that is rich!!!

You can keep it.

I am embarrassed myself.

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By heterochromatic, October 17, 2011 at 10:15 pm Link to this comment

litlpeep,

——“Rise up from that cynical superiority!”——-

but, but ,but it’s a really, really sincere cynical superiority!!!! Can’t I keep it ? Just till
I need glasses?


——

I don’t feel superior, peeps. I’m just some older dude what went through all this
when I was little. I’m merely expressing a bit of anguish that things in the park
aren’t going to go as well as we all might wish.

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By EmileZ, October 17, 2011 at 9:30 pm Link to this comment

@ Inherit The Wind

That is what you worry about???

Really???

My worries are so much more relevant than yours.

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