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A Mission Wrapped in Confusion

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Posted on Mar 24, 2011

By Eugene Robinson

Is it just me? Am I the only one who’s utterly confused about the rationale, goals, tactics and strategy of the U.S.-led military intervention in Libya?

Thought not.

I call it a U.S.-led operation because, people, let’s be real. Without U.S. diplomatic leadership, there would have been no U.N. Security Council resolution. Without U.S. military leadership, there would have been no coordinated shock-and-awe attack to put dictator Moammar Gadhafi’s rampaging forces back on their heels. On Thursday, after days of bickering, we heard a grand announcement that NATO will take command of the operation. Don’t believe it. The United States will be functionally in charge, and thus on the hook, until this ends.

So what the hell are we doing? I realize that President Obama and his advisers have answered this question many times, but I feel it’s necessary to keep asking until the answers begin to make sense.

The official mission, under the U.N. mandate, is to protect Libyan civilians. In other words, this is essentially a humanitarian intervention. I get that. After the horrors we’ve seen in Rwanda and Congo, in Bosnia and Darfur, I understand that a powerful moral and intellectual case can be made for using military force—and risking American lives—when it is clear that a slaughter is imminent and can be prevented.

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Gadhafi’s armored columns were advancing on Benghazi and had other rebel strongholds such as Misurata under siege. As Obama said in Brazil, “We cannot stand idly by when a tyrant tells his people that there will be no mercy, and ... innocent men and women face brutality and death at the hands of their own government.”

Clearly, it seems to me, there will be occasions when humanitarian military intervention is our duty. This may be one of them. But the goal must be to prevent the bloodbath, not just reschedule it. Even after his forces have been pummeled by U.S., French and British airstrikes, Gadhafi has his ragtag opponents outmanned and outgunned. Unless we explicitly take the side of the rebels—providing air support for their advances, for example—it is hard to imagine how they will ever be able to take much ground.

In fact, it seems obvious that as long as Gadhafi remains in power, Libyan civilians are threatened—not just in Benghazi and other rebel-held territory, but in Tripoli and other parts of the country where the government still holds sway. There are neighborhoods of the capital where residents showed open opposition to Gadhafi at the beginning of the uprising. Aren’t these civilians in mortal danger? Don’t they need to be protected too?

The only way to end the threat is to depose Gadhafi—which is what the United States wants to do. “It is U.S. policy that Gadhafi needs to go,” Obama said this week. So is that what we’re really doing in Libya, ousting a brutal dictator?

Absolutely not. The military mission is specifically limited to the humanitarian goal of protecting civilians. According to the White House, we’re not taking the rebels’ side—and we’re not using military means to unseat Gadhafi. Well, maybe someone will launch the occasional cruise missile at his compound, but it won’t be an attempt at regime change.

Maybe Gadhafi will make it easy for us and decamp to one of the few countries that might be willing to take him. But while he is battered, he’s far from defeated. What if he stays and fights, as he has repeatedly vowed to do. Then what?

To fulfill our mandate of protecting civilians, we’ll have to enforce the no-fly zone indefinitely. We’ll also have to provide tons of aid so that the rebels don’t starve. But if we’re not going to also give them weapons, it’s unrealistic to expect shotgun-toting shopkeepers and cabdrivers to vanquish what is left of Gadhafi’s professional army.

So is this the probable outcome, a divided Libya with Gadhafi holding the capital—and the oil-producing infrastructure—while the rebels effectively become wards of the United Nations? Or is it more likely that Libya devolves into “a giant Somalia,” as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton fears?

Now that we’re involved in Libya, it may be that the only way to get uninvolved is to depose Gadhafi—which our military forces are specifically not allowed to do. Hence my confusion.

Eugene Robinson’s e-mail address is eugenerobinson(at)washpost.com.
   
© 2011, Washington Post Writers Group


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drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, April 5, 2011 at 2:10 pm Link to this comment

Former CIA officer Michael Scheuer also burst the “Obama bubble.”  For the
interview, goto
http://truthalliance.net/Archive/News/tabid/67/ID/7382/Default.aspx

Excerpted: “Whatever you may think about Obama, you have to admit that what he has
been able to accomplish is rather extraordinary.  He applied for the most important
job in the world, and yet he kept vast sections of his background a complete and
total secret.  He did not produce his birth certificate, he did not produce his
Columbia University transcript (or much information at all regarding his
educational background), there are quite a few years of his life that really can’t
be accounted for at all and there are very serious questions about his Social
Security number.
Yet in spite of all that he convinced the American people to make him the president
of the United States.
That has got to make Barack Obama one of the greatest con men in U.S. history.”

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BR549's avatar

By BR549, April 5, 2011 at 9:46 am Link to this comment

Drbhelthi,
Re: the “Birth Certificate”

I agree 100%. I’ll even go one step further. Had Obama’s citizenship been “proven” illegitimate (and it may still well prove itself to be so), and yet had he stuck to his promises and done something wondrous for this country, the only ones complaining would be any corporations who might have stood in his way. We don’t see that happening, do we? Those who voted for Obama and who can see the larger picture of the shift of power and resources can see what this is all about. I don’t have a problem with progressives or even liberals to a certain degree, but the bleeding hearts in this country are just as dangerous to this country’s viability as any of the saber rattling conservatives.

Had the word “integrity” entered the lexicon of the current president (it never did), we would have been at least leaning in the direction of all those campaign promises he made instead of leaning even deeper into the NWO agenda Pappa Bush so sickeningly ladled to the public during his March 6, 1991 speech where he sold out his own country. The problem is that the average voter can only relate to events within the last few months, let alone 20 years ago, and then they think that the only reason Obama can’t correct the current situation is because of too much Congressional opposition. PLEASE! What rock did these people crawl out from under?

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drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, April 5, 2011 at 5:28 am Link to this comment

That the birth certificate in question has been reprinted in many
newspapers across the land does not interfere with your over the top
ridiculousity ( ok I just made up that word, but damn it fits).
ardee, March 31 at 11:34 am

Agreed. Your word fits as well as numerous of your other comments, in
your own idiosyncratic thought patterns, separate from reality.
 
Obviously, you are so poorly informed that you not aware of the
source of the falsified “birth certificate” printed in a few puppet
newspapers, or else you actively attempt to distract from accuracy.
As the “official” CIA director stated almost twenty years ago, “- -
we own all news media persons of any value .. “

Why has Donald Trump demanded that Mr. Obama show a genuine birth
certificate?  Because all insiders, and many of their acquaintances,
are aware of the fact that no valid birth certificate for Kenyan, Mr.
Obama has been produced.

Your comments often insult the Harley-Davidson presented as your avatar.

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Napolean DoneHisPart's avatar

By Napolean DoneHisPart, March 31, 2011 at 9:34 am Link to this comment

Cheers Ardee.

Enjoy your retirement and watching life go by from your lazy boy.

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By ardee, March 31, 2011 at 7:38 am Link to this comment

Napolean DoneHisPart, March 29 at 8:18 pm Link to this comment


That’s fine Ardee… you keep living at the behest of the beast.

My last word to one who cannot stay on subject or post with any degree of coherence or consistancy.

The subject was your obvious call for violence, nothing more and certainly nothing less. I do understand your strong desire to hide your sickness with an attempted sidetracking of the point.

I hope you and the equally silly Dr. Unhealthy will be very happy together in the institution.

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By ardee, March 31, 2011 at 7:34 am Link to this comment

As to the question of “Barack Hussein Obama” not producing a birth certificate, how can he, when he doesn´t have one ?  When his loving old Grandma said she assisted with his birth in Kenya, when his wife
said in a video interview that they visited his homeland Kenya, and when the former chief of birth records for Hawaii said there was no birth certificate for Mr. Obama, is there a question?
Bordering on the unbelievable. A Kenyan “no person” “installed” in the U.S. Presidency.

This quote should be saved as a hallmark in any judgement of the sanity of this poster. How truly sad you are sir. That the birth certificate in question has been reprinted in many newspapers across the land does not interfere with your over the top ridiculousity ( ok I just made up that word, but damn it fits).

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drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, March 31, 2011 at 5:41 am Link to this comment

“On Thursday, after days of bickering, we heard a grand announcement
that NATO will take command of the operation. Don’t believe it. The
United States will be functionally in charge, and thus on the hook,
until this ends.”  Eugene Robinson

The “United States” meaning the Obama-pawn administration, as
manipulated by the formerly shadow government, carried out by the
industrial-military consortium, with assistance of the MOSSAD. 
Right. Along with all the other democratization exercises from the
first “Gulf War” to the Lybian “insurgency” to the CIA/MOSSAD
operatives currently bribing/organizing in Iran.

The confusion has resulted from the disinformation approach, used by
the USGOV-controlled media, to disguise what is actually happening.
This disinformation has also engulfed western Europe, especially
France & Germany. Accurate info leaks out. But, not from the media - - 

Now that the formerly-shadow Gov of the U.S. has overtaken NATO, and
essentially the UN, and the alleged “World Court” leadership agreed
to not charge GHWBushSr with the list of international crimes, the
USGOV presidential pawn is in charge.
Superficially.
His CIA experience equipped him to play the role quite well. P-A-W-N.

As to the question of “Barack Hussein Obama” not producing a birth
certificate, how can he, when he doesn´t have one ?  When his loving
old Grandma said she assisted with his birth in Kenya, when his wife
said in a video interview that they visited his homeland Kenya, and
when the former chief of birth records for Hawaii said there was no
birth certificate for Mr. Obama, is there a question?
Bordering on the unbelievable.
A Kenyan “no person” “installed” in the U.S. Presidency.

The US shadow government has elevated itself to the point of
confidence in its control, so that it thinks it can advance without
producing a birth certificate for Obama, such as was done for the
previous non-American installed in the office of U.S.President. 
Using the name, Barack Hussein Obama, the Kenyan, Mr. Obama is the
second non-American to have been installed in the office of the
U.S.Presidency.  With his presidential-promises-snow-job, and the
GHWBushSr entrourage keying the no-paper-trail-voting machines,
no one else had a chance. 

To the ill-informed person who challenged me on a Tomahawk-Cruise
missile having made the hole in the Pentagon.  Sorting thru my
paper-work yesterday, I dug up a copy of a notification to a foreign
intelligence agency, in which the FBI notified that no airplane, but
rather, a Cruise missile made the hole in the Pentagon.  The
subsequent explosion was required to take out a specific person.  As
a genuine American Patriot, he did not fit in with the prostituted
general officers.

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By A. Benway, March 29, 2011 at 5:12 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

No confusion necessary, unless you listen to what they say. Don’t listen, look. Their actions tell you what the goal is…war.

Understand this, all war derives from the domestic political agenda. Period.

And understand this too: It’s not “we”, it’s “them”. The ruling class in Ahmurka takes the state to war. They do this, not us.

If they stop, they’ll have a lot of ‘splainin’ to do - so they can’t stop. The Nazis were in the same situation in ‘39 according to Howard K. Smith. We know how that turned out - which is why China and Russia are laughing….

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, March 29, 2011 at 4:18 pm Link to this comment

That’s fine Ardee… you keep living at the behest of the beast.

Enjoy your pension, your social security and your medicare / medicaid and the tribute you pay to that union.

Again, peaceful protests we’ve seen when the people occupied that place where laws are supposedly made in Wisconsin… yet, would the outcome have been different if the country clubs and gated communities where those and your handlers reside and hide, would have been occupied instead?

I am about peace, but even Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers, didn’t he?.... and He IS Peace.

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By ardee, March 29, 2011 at 2:14 pm Link to this comment

Napolean DoneHisPart, March 29 at 2:05 pm

C’mon now Nappy, the implied violence of your post is obvious…“we’re coming to pay you a visit, long overdue” without a deliniator is an obvious threat.

Further, I am not Wellington sir so squelch the paranoia and recognize that a refusal to think violence a solution implies an enemy…and yes, I am a blue collar union worker who recognizes that our strength is in both joining together and rejecting violence, implied or otherwise.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, March 29, 2011 at 10:05 am Link to this comment

Thanks Ardee, cheers.

May I ask, where is the call for violence in that post / my quoted words, sir?

Please point them out, for you may be reading into the strong message, which is:  Surround their camp until they give up.

You should be careful, for you may target yourself as either inept ( unwittingly part of the ‘problem’ ) or willing participant ( for your Harley runs on petrol, which will soon be a thing of the past ).

Afraid of losing your Amerikan persona?  Your Amerikan identity?  If you ‘work’ for a living, you are STILL on the side of the enslaved, my friend…

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By ardee, March 29, 2011 at 7:40 am Link to this comment

Napolean DoneHisPart, March 28 at 3:39 pm Link to this comment


Oh yes, we know who the shills, lackeys, minstrels and obfuscates are…. that’s why they come back to opine with another account / handle on these Truth-Burying boards…. stay in your comfortable gated communities.. we’re coming to pay you a visit…. long over due.

How childishly silly you are here. Judge ,Jury and Executioner, huh? Too many video games might be the culprit here. Advocating violence and murder is not really a productive contribution, and marks you as a part of the problem ,which is, to remind you, far too much violence and murder.

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By denk, March 29, 2011 at 1:17 am Link to this comment

grym
*Mr. Mystic finds in every global event an opportunity to speak to a single subject, the United States. *

really ?
anglos seem to be poking their collective noses in others latrines 24x7, while shits are 10 ft high at their own doorstep
well in the rest of the world, kids learn this in their kindergarten class
+charity starts at home+
kinda like cultural difference i guess

if yanks are serious about ridding the world of *tyrants*, why bother with libyha, syria , etc etc, those are just small potatoes…

LEAVE LIBYA ALONE
Let’s go for the big game
http://tinyurl.com/yjwfwmo

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By Go Right Young Man, March 28, 2011 at 10:01 pm Link to this comment

People who live a life amongst other people never take the opportunity to defend or minimize the actions of an unmitigated, brutal, mass murdering global terrorist.  Those who regularly interact with other cultures never take an opportunity to excuse the actions of the man who was despised by most everyone, trusted by no one, sitting at the seat of power in Damascus, Syria in 1982.

Mr. Mystic finds in every global event an opportunity to speak to a single subject, the United States.

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By fearnotruth, March 28, 2011 at 3:23 pm Link to this comment

RE: ...Libya provides only 2% of our needs…

Libya’s oil goes mostly to Europe, ergo: France leads the charge - as for the
rest of it, since Qadafi didn’t roll over like Mubarak and Ben Ali, the hegemons
get no bargain basement regime change, rather another quagmire - good for
the MIC - bad for humanity; i.e. more DU-oxide poisoning…

e.g. https://whitewraithe.wordpress.com/tag/uranium-oxide-poison-gas/


Arun Shrivastava, a writer with the Centre for Research on Globalization, says…

“Both US and NATO forces have committed genocide right in Asia. Our
civilizations may never be the same, may not be viable.”

It is important to note how overlooked this significant world problem truly is,
and how indicting it turns out to be. Shrivastava says it is also important to
remember that the DU is a result of military activity that is illegal under
international law.

“Please note that the use of WMD is war crime. There are cases pending under
ICCA against three US Presidents and two British PMs and their entire cabinet.
DU weapons are WMDs; they are weapons of indiscriminate destruction and
environmental contamination….IN PERPETUITY.”

As Nichols states in his article, uranium oxide gas weapons are called
“genocidal weapons.”

“They maim and kill millions of people, their animals and their land. The actual
targets by the U.S. Expeditionary Forces are the populations of Central Asia and
the Middle East, about a billion people.“

He reminds us that more than a million American service members, thousands
of contractors, and others, like journalists have had their boots on the ground
in Iraq and Afghanistan over the past several years, not to mention the
thousands of people from other nations.

“The medical disability rate is over 60 percent and ‘PTSD’ is a common
diagnosis. Soldiers from the United Kingdom, Germany and Italy report similar
medical problems as well.”

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Napolean DoneHisPart's avatar

By Napolean DoneHisPart, March 28, 2011 at 11:39 am Link to this comment

Oh yes, we know who the shills, lackeys, minstrels and obfuscates are…. that’s why they come back to opine with another account / handle on these Truth-Burying boards…. stay in your comfortable gated communities.. we’re coming to pay you a visit…. long over due.

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By JDmysticDJ, March 28, 2011 at 11:13 am Link to this comment

By diamond, March 27 at 8:19 pm Link to this comment

“In 1982 the West, the United Nations and the United States did nothing when a similar uprising occurred in Syria. The government of Syria then massacred 80,000 of its own citizens.”

Wikipedia: 

“The Hama massacre occurred in February 1982, when the Syrian army bombarded the town of Hama in order to quell a revolt by the Muslim Brotherhood. Hama massacre became the climax event of Muslim Brotherhood insurgency campaign, began in 1976. Estimates vary on the number of deaths, with some indicating that at least 10,000 were killed, while others put the number at up to 30,000.  On March 26, 2011, Ted Koppel claimed as many as 80,000 perished, though this appears to be an exaggeration. About 1,000 Syrian soldiers were killed during the operation and large parts of the old city were destroyed. The attack has been described as possibly being ’the single deadliest act by any Arab government against its own people in the modern Middle East’”

“The Arab nationalist, Arab Socialist Ba’ath Party of Syria and the conservative Muslim Brotherhood had clashed in Syria since 1940. The two groups were opposed in important ways. The Ba’ath party was secular, nationalist and led by the minority Alawites, which conservative Sunni Muslims considered Apostates. The Muslim Brotherhood, like other Islamist groups, saw nationalism as un-Islamic and religion as inseparable from politics and government. Most Ba’ath party members were from humble, obscure backgrounds and favored radical economic policies, while Sunni Muslims had dominated the souqs and landed power of Syria, and tended to view government intervention in the economy as threatening. Not all Sunni notables believed in fundamentalism, and those who did not often saw the Brotherhood as a useful tool against the Ba’ath.The town of Hama in particular was a “stronghold of landed conservatism and of the Muslim Brothers,” and ’had long been a redoubtable opponent of the Ba’thist state.’”

In the same period as the Hama insurrection the Israelis attacked Lebanon killing 20,000 Lebanese and Palestinians. Whether the Israeli invasion of Lebanon inflamed the passions of “Muslim Conservatives” in Hama is subject to interpretation.

As an advocate of non-violence, I consider the reaction of the “Arab nationalist, Arab Socialist Ba’ath Party of Syria…” to be objectionable in the strongest terms, but the reaction must be placed in context. Imagine if you will, what would happen here in the U.S. if a stronghold of Radical Leftists, or Rightists, rose up in insurrection against the U.S. Government, killing local government officials and supporters. Granted, such a scenario is ridiculous at the present time, but if such a scenario were to come to pass in the U.S., the response of the U.S. government to such an insurrection should be obvious, and I’ll argue that the death toll of such an insurrection would be significant.

If mankind is able to survive its propensity for folly, I’ll suggest that future historians will refer to our current era as being similar to the hundred year war period in Europe, and as the era where Western Powers attempted, or succeeded, in imposing hegemony on the Arab/Muslim nations, as well as Africa and much of the world, and that the quest for oil resources was the route cause of Western intervention in Arab/Muslim lands.

Robert Gates and Hilary Clinton yesterday maintained that there was absolutely no collateral damage resulting from nearly 200 Tomahawk Missiles with 1,000 lb. warheads, and over a hundred bombing sorties. Gates went so far as to claim that Kaddafi forces were placing the bodies of Libyans that they had slain at bombing sites in order to claim collateral damage. They snickered and laughed, disingenuously, at claims of collateral damage.

I believe, non-intervention, and self determination of peoples, is the best means of avoiding greater conflict and atrocities.

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By Inherit The Wind, March 28, 2011 at 10:47 am Link to this comment

Yeah, Right. You and all the other nazis think that Jews are running everything and with the intention of destroying the nation.

There’s no facts, no evidence, no statistics…most CEOs of most corporations, Wall Street investment houses and banks are NOT Jewish and to claim that they are, and that they have nefarious intents, is exactly the same as Adolph Hitler.

Period.

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drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, March 28, 2011 at 6:12 am Link to this comment

Sorry, a serious error. 
Instead of NASA and NSA, I should have suggested that “inheret the
wind” grubs for the AIPAC disinformation society.

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drbhelthi's avatar

By drbhelthi, March 28, 2011 at 5:59 am Link to this comment

“HOW LONG IS TRUTHDIG GOING TO TOLERATE HIS BLATANT VIOLATION OF THE FORUM EULA????? ” inheret the wind

Would you be a bit more specific about the EULA violation, “comrade” ?

Available information, especially more recently by former CIA agents, supports his comments.

The inaccuracy of your propaganda is deceptive, exceeds that of
“ChaviztaKing, and is thus more offensive.

By the way, is your cubicle in a NASA or an NSA building?

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fearnotruth's avatar

By fearnotruth, March 28, 2011 at 3:01 am Link to this comment

The CIA’s Libya Rebels: The Same Terrorists who Killed US, NATO Troops in Iraq

2007 West Point Study Shows Benghazi-Darnah-Tobruk Area was a World Leader
in Al Qaeda Suicide Bomber Recruitment

http://tarpley.net/2011/03/24/the-cia’s-libya-rebels-the-same-terrorists-who-killed-us-nato-troops-in-iraq/

[...]

As Daya Gamage of the Asia Tribune comments in a recent article on the West Point study, “…alarmingly for Western policymakers, most of the fighters came from eastern Libya, the center of the current uprising against Muammar el-Qaddafi. The eastern Libyan city of Darnah sent more fighters to Iraq than any other single city or town, according to the West Point report.

[...]

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By Artful Dodger, March 28, 2011 at 12:01 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Yes, of course, Thomas PM Barnett did mention North Africa and the Middle East as the Gap(Dah Dah - percussion sound from Power Point slide show). He is a man of his word. It doesn’t matter who is President; the machine is in charge.

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By denk, March 27, 2011 at 11:26 pm Link to this comment

By Fred LaMotte,
*Does this website ever have anything positive to say about anything? Imagine the headlines today if Obama had just stood by and watched while Gadhafi’s thugs mass-murdered 100,000 people. Obama’s mission was very clear, and it succeeded. *


well, in case u havent noticed,
lots of teens were gunned down in kashmir during obama’s visit to india,
the great *humanitarian* didnt seem to notice [sic]
hasnt he just rekindled amerikka’s love affair with its old frame, the indon military, amidst reports of atroticities in west papua new guinea etc ?
and…...in case u still havent noticed, aint ur good buddies in bahrian having a killing spree on the streets with amerikkan weapons n saudi troops ?
i can write volumns about genocides being perpertrated ,where MILLIONS lives were snuffed out with us complicity

so please dont insult ur own intelligence with all these *humanitarian* craps.

*while Gadhafi’s thugs mass-murdered 100,000 people*

now where did i hear that before…..it seem only yesterday
http://tinyurl.com/y4868hj

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By Morpheus, March 27, 2011 at 9:35 pm Link to this comment

Wake up America. It’s time to regroup.

JOIN THE REVOLUTION
Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( http://www.revolution2.osixs.org )

We don’t have to live like this anymore. “Spread the News”
FIGHT THE CAUSE - NOT THE SYMPTOM

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Napolean DoneHisPart's avatar

By Napolean DoneHisPart, March 27, 2011 at 7:28 pm Link to this comment

Right on.

This morning on CNNothing ( or was it ‘ABC you didn’t know what we’ve been up to’ ), well whomever it was ( I watch every so often to keep up with the latest lies, propaganda and rhetoric ) the main banner during the hour-long interview read “The New World Order.”

Folks, they are NOT hiding it anymore.

‘Ambassador’ Negroponte and three other lackeys were giving their two-cents ( worth -$0.02 ) towards the dubious dialogue about Libya.

And last week’s mantra, just in case anyone missed it was: “What is our mission?”

That is the supposed question everyone in the news/entertainment media has supposedly been asking Obama.

It makes me sick to watch more than five minutes… I sure wish I could reach through the tv screen and wring all of their necks.

Soon, their gated communities will be surrounded and they would either have to be airlifted out or provisions will have to be airlifted in.

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By Alan MacDonald, March 27, 2011 at 7:20 pm Link to this comment

Napolean DoneHisPart, damn right about Empire.


This morning on “Meet the Press” the inside intelligence community (CIA) connected, Bob Woodward, gave the very first hint in any MSM context of the real situation and plans behind the Libya military intervention by the US (and aligned global empire powers).

Woodward stated in open/non-secure dialog on the “Roundtable” that this situation “the big picture” runs all across “a five thousand mile area from Mauritania to Afghanistan” (actually to Pakistan/India board, and the Chinese boarder) this entire “what Savannah is calling the Arab Spring ... and which might be unrest or revolution is happening and the intelligence community doesn’t know what’s going on”.

[Video of Woodward’s comments on MTP Roundtable, see 3:40 to 4:25 on recording]
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/#42294062


Woodward has read and is CLEARLY hinting about Thomas Barnett’s 2004 Naval War College and intelligence community “hot read” book “The Pentagon’s New Map”—- in which Barnett calls this 500 mile area the “Gap countries”, and which is the plan, strategy, and now real operational story of the “Old Core” powers walking across this entire “crescent of unrest” (and oil prizes) including N. Africa, the entire Middle East, throughout SW Asia to the Chinese and Indian boarders to insure hegemony (ie. empire) control against any “New Core” alliances (read BRIC).

Naturally, David Gregory either doesn’t have the slightest clue what Woodward is hinting about as the story behind the cover-story, or he has been told to shut-up and not raise any questions.

The real question in my mind is why Woodward took this very public venue to broadcast his strong hint to anyone (particularly including foreign intelligence services) to lay down this marker.

While there has been no candor and disclosure from the leading US media—- some of whom, like the Times, have military intelligence sources who have all read and comprehend the significance of “The Pentagon’s New Map”—- nobody in the ruling-elite planning community is saying even ‘word one’ about this massive plan hiding in plain sight.

Hopefully, the Times will print all the news that’s fit to print on this issue before too long.

Alan MacDonald
Liberty/democracy over violent empire—People’s Party 2012

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, March 27, 2011 at 6:41 pm Link to this comment

The empire strikes back against the ‘people’ every time.

Class warfare.

Only the names change in hierarchy, but the agenda stays the same.

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By diamond, March 27, 2011 at 4:19 pm Link to this comment

In 1982 the West, the United Nations and the United States did nothing when a similar uprising occurred in Syria. The government of Syria then massacred 80,000 of its own citizens. Those who say this is about oil are talking crap. How can it be about oil when the United States, Britain and the west generally already have good arrangements with the Qaddafi government over oil? And are not planning any kind of occupation of Libya. Qaddafi, until he started burning his own people alive and arranging large scale massacres of civilians was allegedly ‘rehabilitated’ and on good terms with the west. You should be able to distinguish between a humanitarian intervention and a naked grab for oil like Iraq but it seems many of you can’t. The United Nations learned some hard lessons in Bosnia and Rwanda and have decided not to stand by and let it happen again.

To use military power to protect a people’s uprising and to prevent large scale massacres of a leader’s own people is legal and valid. And America has a special responsibility because no nation has made more noise about wanting democracy in the Middle East. Well, wake up. This is what democracy looks like. What the CIA likes to have in place in these countries is Fascism and that’s good for cruel and corrupt dictators and their toadies but bad for the population at large and they’ve had enough of it. Simple. And not, I would have thought, in the least confusing.

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By Alan MacDonald, March 27, 2011 at 2:54 pm Link to this comment

ChaviztaKing, while this Socialist Worker article shows an accurate overview of the imperialist intent, there are no specifics nor understanding of how devastating the plans of the global corporate/financial/militarist Empire (hiding behind the US) is going to be as it plays out over a 5000 mile swath of the “Gap” oil territories.

See Thomas Barnett’s 2004 catalyst for the Empire’s plans, “The Pentagon’s New Map” directing the “Leviathan” ‘Core’/empire to quickly subsume all.

Best,
Alan MacDonald
Liberty/democracy over violent—People’s Party 2012

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By denk, March 27, 2011 at 12:05 pm Link to this comment

Fool me once
http://tinyurl.com/2f2nabh

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By surfnow, March 27, 2011 at 11:25 am Link to this comment

No money for teachers but trillions for killing over oil. ( e.g. for the $1,000,000.00 per year for each and every soldier we taxpayers pay in Afghanistan, a state like NJ could pay 25 teachers for a year) And the Amerikan public swallows the bull on each illegal intervention hook,line and sinker.

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By Inherit The Wind, March 27, 2011 at 8:15 am Link to this comment

“ChaviztaKing, March 27 at 5:18 am Link to this comment

Where we need a revolution is in USA, because Democrats, Republicans and Obama are a lot worse than Kadafi and Mubarak. Because the life of Americans is becoming a hell of stress.

USA is becoming a painful, stressful and terrible place to live, how can people love this country so much when most people have to pay like 10 different bills a month and when people are being taxed and strangled to death by the US government and the Jewish corporations.

In other normal countries families only gotta get money for electricity, and phone, but in USA you got like insurance for this, fees, taxes, water is also privatized in America. even firefighters and police departments are also privatized in this hell of bills, taxes and pain.  Not to mention the moral rape and abuses that people suffer on a daily basis by the police departments, the courts and the US satanic jewish government that did 9-11.

********************

This poster consistently calls for “revolution”, not “peaceful revolution” but “revolution”, which therefore means armed insurrection.

HE FURTHER POSTS RACIST, ANTI-SEMITIC FALSE PROPAGANDA TO WHIP UP HATRED AGAINST JEWISH AMERICANS! 

HOW LONG IS TRUTHDIG GOING TO TOLERATE HIS BLATANT VIOLATION OF THE FORUM EULA?????

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By ardee, March 27, 2011 at 7:35 am Link to this comment

I stumbled through this article, and the comments that seem as equally confused as Mr. Robinson, as well as being a rather broad barrage that hits no particular target.

Considering both the numbers of places in which atrocities occur world wide, considering the ineptitude of American interventions both in the past and today I can find only the most tenuous of reasons for this stupidly conceived action against Khaddafy. It just cannot be the oil as Libya provides only 2% of our needs, it certainly cannot be a humanitarian motive as we ignore so very many slaughters elsewhere, so what can it be?

Simply a distraction from the growing unrest here in America perhaps. Over a million foreclosures, about 13 million unemployed, an attack upon capital L Labor taking place in Wisconsin and growing elsewhere as well, deep cuts in social programs, in education, a health care law, labeled “Obama-care” by propagandists perhaps, that really fails to address the real problems in our health care system, the money flowing into the hands of fewer and fewer each year, the lack of enforcement of our laws towards the rich and the corporate etc.,etc.,etc.

Don’t look here folks, watch the missiles fly over there instead.

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By ChaviztaKing, March 27, 2011 at 2:12 am Link to this comment

THIS IS A GOOD ARTICLE FROM SOCIALISTWORKER.ORG

THE ZIONIST SCRAMBLE FOR LIBYA’S OIL

http://socialistworker.org/2011/03/23/imperialist-scramble-for-libya

The U.S. blitz on Libya is aimed at imposing the imperialist order, not saving lives.

March 23, 2011

THE CRUISE missile liberals are back. The same people who criticized George W. Bush for unleashing the U.S. war machine on Iraq are now cheering Barack Obama’s order to pound Libya with missiles and bombs.

How do they explain the difference? The Republican Bush’s venture was aimed at furthering the interest of U.S. imperial power, we’re told, while the Democrat Obama’s firepower will save civilian lives and promote democracy. “Assuming that a no-flight zone can be imposed by an international coalition that includes Arab states, we have an opportunity to establish a new narrative of Western support for Arab democrats,” wrote Anne-Marie Slaughter, a Princeton professor and a former official in the Obama State Department.

Tell that to the families of the uncounted civilians who died not at the hands of Libyan government forces, but as a result of U.S. air strikes. While the media highlighted the destruction of tanks and weapons of forces loyal to Libyan leader Muammar el-Qaddafi, bombs dropped from the sky and missiles fired from ships offshore inevitably killed civilians—some of whom may have been supporters of the anti-Qaddafi rebellion.

In fact, U.S. Marines sent to rescue the crew of a crashed F-15 fighter jet reportedly shot six villagers near Benghazi who were trying to help the pilots—and now a boy faces the amputation of his leg as a result of the “rescue.”

Moreover, military action by the U.S., Britain and France—likely soon to be endorsed by the whole NATO alliance—will likely do little to stop the killings of civilians carried out by Qaddafi’s forces.

The regime’s military and mercenary fighters quickly adjusted to the air strikes by avoiding large concentrations and stepping up their attacks on civilians and rebels in urban areas. Western air power can’t be used in those densely populated zones without slaughtering the very people they claim to want to protect.

But none of that gives pause to the liberal imperialists, who want to bomb like it’s 1999. That was the year that the U.S. and NATO launched a war on Serbia in the name of protecting the Albanians in what was then the Serbian province of Kosovo. Since then, the Kosovo war has been held up as the model for “humanitarian intervention”—a war that cost no lives on the allied side and eventually gained independence for an oppressed people.

In reality, the U.S. and its allies manipulated the legitimate struggle of the Kosovars to their own end. The bombing campaign was a prelude to the use of ground troops by the U.S. and NATO to forcibly separate Kosovo from Serbian control, expanding the U.S. military’s presence in the former Yugoslavia. Kosovo became the location of Camp Bondsteel, the biggest U.S. military outpost in Southeastern Europe and the location of a secret prison during the “war on terror” that a European human rights official called “a smaller version of Guantánamo.”

Kosovo today remains desperately poor, with 40 percent unemployment and 45 percent of the population living under the official poverty line. It is corrupt client state of the U.S. and European powers, run by Mafia-style politicians who have been implicated in a scheme in which Serbian prisoners of war were murdered in order to sell their organs for transplant.

But at least the NATO intervention in Kosovo saved lives, right? Not according to University of Arizona professor David Gibbs, author of a book on Western intervention in the former Yugoslavia:

Another myth regarding Kosovo is that bombing improved the human rights situation. In reality, it made things worse, and augmented the suffering.

.

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By denk, March 27, 2011 at 1:41 am Link to this comment

how many *collateral damage* have u chalked up today ?
http://tinyurl.com/4bkgpbt

this must be the definitive defination of *hyporcrisy*
http://tinyurl.com/49gak7q

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By ChaviztaKing, March 27, 2011 at 1:34 am Link to this comment

Life in America for a person who is not conformist, i mean for a person who wants to reach self realization requires about 8,000 dollars per person a month because in America the system is designed in a way that even social relationships are bought with luxuries and money

So in order to get full complete spiritual progress like good body, higher intelligence from a college degree and an extra-college activity like piano, gym, karate, etc. and high levels of emotional happiness like from vacation cruises, seminars etc. and from high social life), for that you need between 5000 and 8000 a month per person, so in a house of 2 people u need about 15,000 a month.

That’s why this oligarchic economic system doesn’t work at providing happiness for all people, its not rational, because most people in the USA make below 5000 a month

.

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By ChaviztaKing, March 27, 2011 at 1:18 am Link to this comment

Where we need a revolution is in USA, because Democrats, Republicans and Obama are a lot worse than Kadafi and Mubarak.  Because the life of Americans is becoming a hell of stress. 

USA is becoming a painful, stressful and terrible place to live, how can people love this country so much when most people have to pay like 10 different bills a month and when people are being taxed and strangled to death by the US government and the Jewish corporations.

In other normal countries families only gotta get money for electricity, and phone, but in USA you got like insurance for this, fees, taxes, water is also privatized in America. even firefighters and police departments are also privatized in this hell of bills, taxes and pain.  Not to mention the moral rape and abuses that people suffer on a daily basis by the police departments, the courts and the US satanic jewish government that did 9-11.


.

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By Steve E, March 26, 2011 at 11:09 pm Link to this comment

I don’t know if your figures are correct Fred but I find it strange comparing those
to the figures from all the collateral murder being committed in Afghanistan,
Pakistan, Iraq, etc by the U.S. But maybe we are comparing apples to oranges,
what do you think? I know one thing, Obama has been spouting on about saving
lives and democracy in Libya while oil and control are his real reasons for using
military action. You could say that’s a negative outlook but I think it is closer to
reality.

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By Fred LaMotte, March 26, 2011 at 10:29 pm Link to this comment

Does this website ever have anything positive to say about anything? Imagine the headlines today if Obama had just stood by and watched while Gadhafi’s thugs mass-murdered 100,000 people. Obama’s mission was very clear, and it succeeded.

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By California Ray, March 26, 2011 at 8:31 pm Link to this comment

“Dear Mr. President:
“According to reports coming out of the Pentagon, military aircraft under your
command recently attacked ground troops along the Libyan coast and in Tripoli.
“Assuming those reports are true, it would seem to follow that you believe that
those attacks do not violate international law.  On what facts do you base that
belief?
“Thank you for allowing me to bring this inquiry to your attention.”

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By ChaviztaKing, March 26, 2011 at 7:52 pm Link to this comment

The bourgeois’s greatest strength is their ability to empower people such as the people of CNN, FOX news, UNIVISION and those celebrities of the mainstream media. Racism, xenophobia and general backwardness was everything Trotsky spent his life fighting against.  Trotsky understood that this was only possible when capitalism was eradicated from the globe via permanent revolution. The bourgeois internationally understood this point very well. Thus 14 countries invaded Russia after the change in power. Thus the Russian revolution and it’s gains were aborted

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By dihey, March 26, 2011 at 7:23 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If Mr. Robinson is still confused about the objectives of the Obama administration in Libya his perception of that war is primitive or else is deliberately giving Mr. Obama the benefit of the doubt.
The objective is regime change by militarily supporting the rebels through thick and thin until they have taken Tripoli and hanged Kadaffy. Even my cat understands that.

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By ChaviztaKing, March 26, 2011 at 7:03 pm Link to this comment

It would be funny if it wern’t so sad, that the US is supporting Al Qaeda in Libya and torturing, maiming, and slaughtering the same people in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan. It doesn’t seem to matter where atrocities take place, as long as someone is being murdered, maimed, and slaughtered, and some structures are being blown up, US war profiteers are happy.


.


.

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By TAO Walker, March 26, 2011 at 6:44 pm Link to this comment

Sort of curious how so many people can talk and write about multiple manifestations of rampant insanity as if it all made perfect sense.  Meantime, as “fearnotruth” shows below, the naturally inevitable CONsequences of being biological imbeciles will soon be putting the most “self”-obsessed among the virtual subspecies homo domesticus out of all our misery.

Of course, these suicidal maniacs have absolutely no “testimony” whatsoever, to the actual existence of their supposed-to-be “superior intelligence,” except the not exactly unbiased and completely “self”-referential claims of that “self”-same “rational” faculty.  Surely your very own “self” wouldn’t shit you….

....would it?

HokaHey!

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By Steve E, March 26, 2011 at 6:15 pm Link to this comment

My, my, the powers that be have got our number. We are all carbon footprints, so
what do we do, we continue to populate the poor planet with more of our vile
species which has been the grand plan right from the get go. More people - more
consumption, more people - more taxpayers, more people - a bigger market.
Religion has always had a lot to do with overpopulation as well. Remember that
evil of contraception preached about for generations? More people more
worshippers and bigger collection plates. Overpopulation is the cause of all our
grief. So what do we do, we keep humping away exercising our “god given right”
to multiple, creating more images of ourselves. Overpopulation will not be
addressed until it is too late. All this warring over commodities is the symptom of
that. Democracy my ass.

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By Inherit The Wind, March 26, 2011 at 5:21 pm Link to this comment

Trust someone who claims to be a psychologist for 30 or 40 years to be the wackiest, most paranoid, sufferer of cognitive dissonance in the local “loony left”.

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By fearnotruth, March 26, 2011 at 4:30 pm Link to this comment

RE: ...when we got into the Yugoslavian war for humanitarian reasons it
worked.

worked for whom?

what worked for the hegemons in that case, seems to work for them
everywhere:    break up any nation state strong enough to resist their IMF
World Bank tools of economic domination, to make way for global financiers,
speculators, asset strippers

but there are consequences… literally to everyone, ultimately everywhere:

Depleted Uranium Poisoning is now ubiquitous throughout the Middle East
from the Balkans to Lebanon, Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan - significant fallout
detected all the way to India - predictions are that if ultimately circles the globe

e.g. http://www.salem-news.com/articles/april142010/israeli-sperm.php

Apr-14-2010 22:11
Israel’s Declining Sperm Quality Tied to Depleted Uranium Exposure

Tim King Salem-News.com

With the latest news, Israel may soon lose the need to create and seek out
enemies; with a little help from the U.S. they did this to themselves.

(TEL AVIV / SALEM) - Israel’s population is facing a dire threat: a drastic
depopulation, from the use of weapons that leave behind Depleted Uranium
(DU). Depleted Uranium leads to the word Omnicidal, as DU kills everything in
the food chain, everywhere the wind blows. Experts say the dramatic drop in
Israel’s sperm count could eliminate their ability to reproduce.

Research by an Israeli doctor shows a significant drop in sperm count level and
sperm motility among young Israeli soldiers in recent years. Sperm motility is
the ability of sperm to move properly toward an egg.

It is attributed to the inhalation of DU aerosolized nano-particles; the dirty
results of extra powerful weapons used by Israel and the U.S.

All of that military might as it turns out, could set the stage for a massive Israeli
act of population suicide.

A study by Dr. Ronit Haimov-Kokhman released in November, showed a 40-
percent decline in the concentration of sperm cells in Israeli sperm donors from
2004 to 2008, compared to samples taken between 1995 and 1999.

Sperm banks in Israel are now reportedly turning away as many as two-thirds
of potential donors, due to the low-quality sperm. In the past, around one-
third of the potential donors were turned away.

According to Ofri Ilani’s article in Haaretz, Study: Quality of Israeli sperm down
40% in past decade:

“The research confirmed that in 10 years, the average concentration of sperm
among donors declined from 106 million cells per cubic centimeter to 67
million per cubic centimeter. The rate of sperm motility has also declined: from
79 to 67 percent, although the profile of donors did not change over that
period; they are still young, healthy and do not smoke.”[1]

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By Jeffrey C. Goldfarb, March 26, 2011 at 3:53 pm Link to this comment

To not see that this intervention is saving lives is to be blind, see http://www.juancole.com/2011/03/top-ten-accom...

To think that this has only to do with oil and nothing to with the hopes of the Arab Spring is to be blind and profoundly insensitive to the hopes and dreams of active democrats throughout North Africa and the Middle East, see: http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2011/03...

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, March 26, 2011 at 3:12 pm Link to this comment

I firmly now believe that all of these so-called reporters are not simply ignorant, but really more afraid of losing their ‘credentials’ and notoriety among the managers who handle them…. shills they are called.

How can this ‘learned’ professional NOT see what we can see so clearly?

Ran into an LA Times reporter yesterday… and he doesn’t seem to mind the narrow view his employer puts out… it is all for the $$ people.. and these guys have their obedience to that golden calf and their won selfish / self-centered interests at heart and not the truth… which is what the vocation WAS and supposed to be about…

Well, guess what?

Now there’s an army are REAL truth diggers out there…. and they will NOT BE STOPPED.. for you cannot stop the truth, only attempt to.. which is futile.

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By TDoff, March 26, 2011 at 3:06 pm Link to this comment

Sorry to burst your bubble, Eugene, but yes, it is just you who is confused. Everyone else seems to know exactly why the US is intervening in Libya. Just read the comments you incite.

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By Mike Rudolph, March 26, 2011 at 2:32 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I’m still impressed by the list of countries that were smart enough to abstain from the UN resolution.  They deserve a lot of credit.  China, Russia, Germany, Brazil, and India.

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By Bat Guano, March 26, 2011 at 12:57 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Confusion - what confusion, WAR is PEACE.

Read or reread “1984” - Orwell was prophetic. More and more of that book comes to life every day.

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By samosamo, March 26, 2011 at 11:54 am Link to this comment

****************


By CJ, March 26 at 2:21 pm

Scheer is correct, it is all about oil, even the piddling amount
Libya produces. Why else would Syria and other non-producing
oil countries in revolt not have to worry with the u.s. invading
them by going to war in those countries?

And there in lies a conundrum. Lumping the infernal combustion
engine to oil for lube and fuel and the ease of cruising at a
moments notice makes me doubt that any sensible alternative to
that whole infrastructure will never come to pass. Waste is not a
factor. It is the major part of consumption that those who
benefit won’t turn away from, ever, well, not until it is all gone or
the people are all gone. Not many people who will not be mad as
hell when they realize just jumping in the car and going but it
won’t go whom will not revolt about that.

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By A. Benway, March 26, 2011 at 11:38 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The Libya business is both obvious and old - it’s the strategy of the US in Cuba and the Philippines in the Spanish American war, it’s the strategy the Romans used, and the Greeks, and the Persians. And the goals are the same too - control, power, wealth.

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By Napolean DoneHisPart, March 26, 2011 at 10:43 am Link to this comment

It is not ONLY about oil.

It is about power, and who keeps it.


“The Empire Strikes Back”


And the U.S. of Amerika thought is was the good guys…. fooled again.


“We Won’t Get Fooled Again”


Take a listen and see the lyrics for yourself, for they are prophetic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp6-wG5LLqE


We’ll be fighting in the streets

With our children at our feet

And the morals that they worship will be gone

And the men who spurred us on

Sit in judgment of all wrong

They decide and the shotgun sings the song


I’ll tip my hat to the new constitution

Take a bow for the new revolution

Smile and grin at the change all around

Pick up my guitar and play

Just like yesterday

Then I’ll get on my knees and pray

We don’t get fooled again


The change, it had to come

We knew it all along

We were liberated from the foe, that’s all

But the world looks just the same

And history ain’t changed

‘Cause the banners, they’d all flown in the last war


I’ll tip my hat to the new constitution

Take a bow for the new revolution

Smile and grin at the change all around

Pick up my guitar and play

Just like yesterday

Then I’ll get on my knees and pray

We don’t get fooled again

No, no!


I through myself and my family aside

If we happen to be left half alive

I’ll get all my papers and smile at the sky

For I know that the hypnotized never lie

Do ya?


Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!


There’s nothing in the street

Looks any different to me

And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye

And the party on the left

Is now party on the right

And their beards have all grown longer overnight


I’ll tip my hat to the new constitution

Take a bow for the new revolution

Smile and grin at the change all around

Pick up my guitar and play

Just like yesterday

Then I’ll get on my knees and pray

We don’t get fooled again

Don’t get fooled again

No, no!


Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!


Meet the new boss

Same as the old boss


—The Who

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By CJ, March 26, 2011 at 10:21 am Link to this comment

I thought Scheer put it well the other day—it’s about oil. Of course. It’s about oil in general, as always and forever in the Middle East. (And no, I don’t want rigs off the coast of Big Sur nor another San Onofre. And fracking’s no good either. But, as always and forever, we got ourselves into this mess when we thought Carter was a folksy cracker with cracker ideas concerning renewable energy. And now here we are a few decades later in another mess we created, no doubt also out of a concern for personal freedom as well as for cost-benefit, which analysis is founded in monetarism and not in reality.)

Can’t agree with Robinson that the U.S. has any business intervening anywhere whatsoever at any time whatsoever since the U.S. long ago blew its credibility and, by the way, killed about a zillion civilians—directly and indirectly—in that decades-long process.

If our country is concerned for protecting civilians it might begin in the homeland, if that’s not asking too much? With, say, a healthcare plan that isn’t a give-away to industry. Or maybe with an actual plan for reconstruction of the joint and getting on with actually constructing solar panels, windmills and geothermal plants. Talk, talk, talk, no action, now for going on four decades. While a ruling class consisting of lunatics lives the hypocritical high life, precisely as depicted in the film of the same name—“The Ruling Class.”

War is more profitable, civilians dispensable. That’s the ever present fact, no confusion.

But Obama is certainly confused and no wonder when he’s livin’ the ideology and not reality. Imagine Gadhafi’s confusion? He was just becoming comfortable with the west, which was becoming comfortable with him. He must feel like Noriega felt when we undertook another mission to save humanity, in that process killing thousands of Panamanian civilians.

I truly believe our officials haven’t the slightest clue of much, and then go off half-cocked, as noted lost in the ideology of it all, lies constructed atop previous lies. What we’re really witnessing on the part of our own—the West in general—is the grossest incompetence. Germany’s remained out of it, perhaps having learned the hard way a lesson or two about these things. Russia too is out, though likely for more nefarious reasons. But Russia is ex-East and supplied Gadhafi with weapons and maybe now ought supply rebels, if weapons must be supplied. The U.S. really can’t afford this third war, unless a different Gates and Allen and Jobs and Buffett and Trump would like to pick up the check? Even were they (slightly improbably) willing the assault on Libya would not then be justified.

As for NATO, America IS NATO, which at the very least ought have been disbanded 20 years ago as really too costly, not to mention deadly.

It IS possible to supply humanitarian aid sans bombs. Drop supplies, not bombs.

It’s not possible to “intervene” in another nation’s civil war or revolution without doing even more damage, as sanctions and another no-fly zone did to Iraq. Bonpane often notes that the war on Iraq lasted 20 years and killed a million or two. That’s true.

And if one does intervene, where stop? World War? What about Syria? What about Yemen and Bahrain? What about Palestine? Burma? North Korea? Is there some listmus test? Nope, this one’s about oil and profits, as always and forever.

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By drbhelthi, March 26, 2011 at 9:40 am Link to this comment

The global intelligence nexus (CIA/MI6/MOSSAD) are their eyes, ears
and manipulators - NATO is their tool for heavy lifting - what we now
see they are doing in Libya. fearnotruth

The French secret service might also be included, since their white
Fiat caused the Princess Diana accident. They certainly did an
effective cover-up.  I only wonder, what was the French pay-off?  Was
Sarkozy permitted to kiss the queen´s behind?

I fail to see the confusion in the Gadhafy debacle.  Gadhafy is to be
destroyed, and control of the oil resources overtaken by Halliburton
types. Any confusion that exists is engendered by the same forces
that decided to steal Lybia´s oil and lower its socioeconomic index
by destroying the Gadhafy family. 

Not being on the ground in Lybia, I do not know how many Tomahawk-
Cruise missiles have been fired at Gadhafy castles, Gadhafy air
defenses, Gadhafy oil pipelines. Nor do I believe reports issued by
“public” news media, which publicize whatever disinformation they are
told to publicize.

Also, I consider it very sad that “Hilly” is forced to cover for the
same evil men who have controlled her since she was 25.  What is the
value of the U.S.Presidency, when you are pawned to do whatever you
are told to do, and can make no personal choices?  Being a pawn for
evil men is not what you had in mind 30 years ago. Piss away the
presidency like a urinary infection.  Use your creative abilities to
do good, sweetheart, not brown-nose evil men any longer !!!

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By Mike789, March 26, 2011 at 9:35 am Link to this comment

rancone ~ [Q3. What is the outcome for Libya?]

A3a - If superficial analysis is abandoned, as per the desultory comments Mr Robinson (who, it seems, cannot find an issue that merits research), and consideration is given to the historic/geographical/tribal evolution of the East/West Libyan demographic, splitting the baby, though less than optimal, may be the inevitably outcome. 

Mr Robinson should refrain from dithering and get down to some due diligence so as to inform his readers.

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By drbhelthi, March 26, 2011 at 9:10 am Link to this comment

Agreed.

However, since 9-11, I might alter the order a bit, MOSSAD,CIA,MI6. The French secret service might also be included, since their white Fiat caused the Princess Diana accident. If we talk about hypocrite types, we might place Sarkozy in the lead.

Not being on the ground in Lybia, I cannot discern to what extent Sarkozy´s vengence has dented Gadhafy´s castle.  We can depend on the accuracy of the Tomahawk-Cruise missile, however. It will hit within one yard of the zero-in point, whether fired from the vessel that hit the Pentagon, or from a sub. The only variation is in the strength of the explosive load.  And alleged American Patriots are firing these implements of death ?  American Naval officers?  Excuse me, I need to go cry for a few minutes…

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By madisolation, March 26, 2011 at 8:46 am Link to this comment

Some truths stand the test of time:

“But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.

She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.

She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.”

—John Quincy Adams on Foreign Policy (1821)
http://www.fff.org/comment/AdamsPolicy.asp

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By Inherit The Wind, March 26, 2011 at 8:30 am Link to this comment

Funny (not really), but when we got into the Yugoslavian war for humanitarian reasons it worked.

When we got into the Somalian war for humanitarian reasons, mission-creep caused it to backfire—and we got out.

When we invaded Afghanistan to go after the people who attacked us on 9/11/01, it was working and nearly done….until the resources were drained for Iraq.

Iraq.  The phony, unnecessary, illegal stage III cancerous war that has drained our economy, destroyed our standing and reputation, killed our children, and achieved none of its goals.  It has WORSENED the situation in the region, given more credence to the less-sane elements in Iran, and left the President who succeeded Dumbya with an impossible situation with no way out.

Because of Iraq we weren’t able to stop the blood-shed in Darfur. 

Because of Iraq we can’t help rebels in a civil war against a monster who promises to slaughter them (and when such monsters keep their promises, it’s always horrendous deaths, not a merciful bullet in the back of the head).

Because of Iraq we can’t even let NATO run the show.

And because Republicans are Republicans, they have no problem being FOR intervention in Libya before they are AGAINST it.  Because their ONLY cause is to find a way to defeat Obama.

Had this been 1999, instead of 2011, the reaction from the Left, the Right and the rest of the world to EXACTLY THE SAME STEPS by NATO, Europe and the US would have had an entirely different reaction.

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By madisolation, March 26, 2011 at 7:56 am Link to this comment

diamond writes:
“America cannot simply stand by with the most powerful army in the world….To do so would be an abdication of the responsibility that such power brings with it.”

My, my, aren’t we just the kings of the world? So the Defense Industry lobbies Congress. Congress gives them more money than we can imagine (taxpayer money, mind you) to build insanely expensive war toys. Voila! We have the “most powerful army” in the world! Look at us! We have the right to do anything we want anywhere in the world! Not just our right, but our RESPONSIBILITY, doncha know, and screw the fact that our own country is going downhill fast. We have war toys and that means we get to invade countries whenever we want, and Obama gets his very own bright, shiny, new war! He gets to parade around in a bomber jacket (first and only time he’s come close to putting on the uniform).
Saudi troops killing unarmed protesters in Bahrain? We don’t care! We want us some of that light, sweet Libyan, crude, baby, and we have—what did you call it?—the “responsibility” to kill civilians in order to save them and take their oil away!
The “Humanitarian” Chickenhawks are now in charge, and may God help the citizens of Libya.

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By fearnotruth, March 26, 2011 at 4:33 am Link to this comment

RE: Now that we’re involved in Libya, it may be that the only way to get uninvolved is to depose Gadhafi— which our military forces are specifically not allowed to do. Hence my confusion.

Mr. Robinson: Get real. Yours is ‘rhetorical confusion’ - let’s be clear: petrol is all the Global Finance Oligarchy (those calling the shots) is out to protect - in the Middle East, it’s all that matters.

“Oh!” One might say, “the terrorists, the despots, the drug and arms dealing, sex-slave trafficking, etc., what about that?” Indeed, what about it? Who’s profiting, paying, enabling? Of course, as usual: Wall Street, City of London… again, The Global Finance Oligarchy… Hegemons in every sense.

The global intelligence nexus (CIA/MI6/MOSSAD) are their eyes, ears and manipulators - NATO is their tool for heavy lifting - what we now see they are doing in Libya.

Mr. Robinson, please cut the rhetorical BS and start writing it straight for a change.

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By #5, March 26, 2011 at 4:16 am Link to this comment

No confusion necessary.  Could be as simple as quagmire #3 in the making.  I really hope our leaders, and those in Europe, know what they are doing this time.  They have shown over and over again that they generally don’t.  Let’s hope this one turns out better than some of our other recent follies.  http://whyileftamerica.wordpress.com/

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By Gary Mont, March 26, 2011 at 1:31 am Link to this comment

By Leefeller:
“Someone just stole the American flag out of my gas guzzling Humvee, it was mounted on my dash were the hula girl used to be!”

—-

I suggest you replace the missing S&S flag with a
Barr-ass O’bobble Doll(TM).

Make sure to mount it so its facing into the vehicle.

Nobody will want to steal that.

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By KenG, March 26, 2011 at 1:04 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

A article in the New York Times on 03/22/2011 tells how the United States African Command was created four years ago. Here’s a few lines from the article.

Indeed, the command, known as Africom, is intended largely to train and assist the armed forces of 53 African nations and to work with the State Department and other American agencies to strengthen social, political and economic programs in the region, including improving H.I.V. awareness in African militaries and removing land mines.

Now the young, untested command and its new boss, Gen. Carter F. Ham, find themselves at their headquarters in Stuttgart, Germany, setting aside public diplomacy talks and other civilian-military duties to lead the initial phase of a complex, multinational shooting war with Libya.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/22/world/africa/22command.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha22

To me Libya was in the makings long before this and the US spends billions in covert operations to overthrow what they call ‘evil regimes.’ I think the US created the rebels My problem with this is the peole living in the US see political campaigns where smear is an everyday tactic but this is going on their debiet card in another country. In our country so deep in debt and so many losing their homes and jobs I would think the US itself would be having its own protests about stuff like this.

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By diamond, March 25, 2011 at 10:46 pm Link to this comment

The only thing wrapped in confusion, Robinson, is you. The goals of the mission have been made abundantly clear and have been stated repeatedly by Obama and Hillary Clinton and Susan Rice and many others. Obama has stated unequivocally that Qaddadi must go and must leave Libya. Admiral Gortney told Qaddafi’s troops to ‘stop fighting and don’t obey orders to kill your own people’. How clear does it all have to be before you understand it? When people go out in the streets to demand democracy America cannot simply stand by with the most powerful army in the world and allow them to be killed by snipers, run over by tanks and burned alive. To do so would be an abdication of the responsibility that such power brings with it. If you’re still confused it’s because you want to be.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, March 25, 2011 at 8:37 pm Link to this comment

Someone just stole the American flag out of my gas guzzling Humvee, it was mounted on my dash were the hula girl used to be!

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By TAO Walker, March 25, 2011 at 5:44 pm Link to this comment

Ring around the Rose Garden,
Pockmarks fill the sky.
Ashes, ashes, all fall down.

The “global” plague of rampant institutionalized violence rages on.  It’s CONtagion, long-since gone “viral,” spreads out-of-CONtrol throughout Obama puppet-master Brezinski’s “arc of instability.”  Stopping it “at-the-waters-edge” is no longer a sure thing….‘cause there’s no “ap” for that at-all. 

Ashes, ashes, all fall down.

HokaHey!

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By bravewarrior, March 25, 2011 at 5:40 pm Link to this comment

The sudden reversal from interested spectator to
intervening savior in the ‘democracy’movement in
Libya-appears from my point of view to coincide with
the recent snub of Hillary in Egypt. While American
foreign policy became entranced-watching passively at
the various revolts in the ME-they reassured
themselves by noting that the crowds were not burning
American flags. The protesters were smart enough to
understand that American pressure on their erstwhile
allies to restrain their aggressive repressions-could
not come from any other source. After the Egyptian
army stood down-at the direction of their Pentagon
handlers-we expected gratitude from the demonstrators
on the Arab streets. ‘Me too’ became our diplomatic
message. Suddenly we were questioning our alliances
with autocratic dictators, who we installed and
supported for decades. Even when our weapons made the
streets of Cairo, -that the government unleashed on
their citizens we continued to pretend to believe
that the demonstrators would never blame us for their
bondage and foul treatment by the security forces who
we trained and used to torture our own terrorism
suspects. When Hillary showed up with dollars in her
pockets, the young revolutionaries declined her money
and an audience with her. For some reason they
resented the tardy support of the US, like about 30
yrs late. Then the sudden willingness to intervene to
protect unarmed civilians, specifically in Libya-
where the government was attacking with the weapons
the US and the West had sold to him. No word on Yemen
or Bahrain. No comment on Saudi Arabia sending in
reinforcements to Bahrain. Libya was the only safe
place to show American commitment to protecting the
citizens, that appears absent in our Pakistan and
Afghanistan policy. We killed over 100,000 civilians
in Iraq. So our record of concern for ‘collateral
damage’ might be suspect. The Obama presidency might
hinge on pulling out quickly. A prolonged stalemate,-
highly likely, would erode support, and draw
attention to our hypocritical policy with regards to
our allies. We have little money for our people, but
spent 100 million on day one, with our expensive
Tomahawk missiles. Guess we’ll have to buy some more
and hope for a frequent buyer discount. Meanwhile
our great communicator hides out, away from any press
conference where embarrassing questions might be
asked. Busy trying to win friends and trade in Latin America-so
soon after our sponsored coup in Honduras. Will he
comply with the request from Chile for the CIA’s
Pinochet files? American foreign policy is under
assault-worldwide. Failure in Libya will fall on the
Obama presidency, despite the ‘hand off’ of
leadership. Meanwhile Israel resumes the bombing of
civilians in Gaza with American weapons. The people
in the ME will be watching to see if Obama moves to
protect the civilians there. One thing is for certain, when
the new democratic governments take hold, they will
not be willing tools of the American empire. First action in Egypt will be to end the blockade of Gaza. To protect the unarmed civilians.

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By BR549, March 25, 2011 at 4:17 pm Link to this comment

Gene stated:
“So what the hell are we doing? I realize that President Obama and his advisers have answered this question many times, but I feel it’s necessary to keep asking until the answers begin to make sense.”

I think you’re finally coming around and seeing what others have, that Saviour Obama is about as two-faced as they come. How else do we put it? Even Biden was quoted, in a town hall address he gave during the Bush Administration, that sending in our military without Congressional approval is an impeachable offense. Where is that pontificating blowhard now?

..... and later, “To fulfill our mandate of protecting civilians, ....”

Exactly what part of this statement will apply to US citizens with the
current out of control expenditure on detention facilities along with the continual erosion of rights across THIS country? Or is all this just lip service in the hopes that, come 2012, our politicians will still be expecting us to believe that the Patriot Act was for our protection?

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By jamie, March 25, 2011 at 4:16 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I am amazed how reporters are all soooooo confused. In the past, things were
sooooo much clearer. They’d just listen to lies like “weapons of mass destructions”
and have a clear idea of the mission (true or not) - So my answer is sit down and
THINK. You might not like the mission but the mission is quite clear: 1) to stop the
Libyan Gov. from killing its population 2) have Nato take over the no fly zone as
quickly as possible and 3) in the long run get rid of Gaddafi by isolating him. This
is not dissimilar to Kosovo mission.

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By rancone, March 25, 2011 at 4:03 pm Link to this comment

Q1. Is this war? A1. No - when one side cannot shoot back at you it is not war. It is a blockade.
Q2. What is the purpose? A2. To deny the ability of one side to use overwhelming military advantage to slaughter the other side. 
Q3. What is the outcome for Libya? A3. In the end the anti Government group will determine if they have the staying power to change the Government absolutely or by some negotiated means or by a decreed settlement by the Government. 
Q.4 What is the outcome for the US. A4. The US participates in the NATO blockade as long as NATO requests our participation. We pay for the flying and the munitions as requested. 

This is not quite a definitive response - but a cheap and reasonable way to handle this particular event. 
Next event we will handle as that event allows or requires the US to act.
Is this response sufficient for persons of an authoritarian mind? No.
It is the responsibility of Journalists to present this information and not to present a story that carries the headline and message of those who cannot understand other than an absolutist action, and those whose only mission is the political mission to delegitimize the current administration - by saying almost anything in various forms of flip flops. Now the various attacks, the flip flops, now there is a story of political humor - but I guess we go to the comedy channel for the real story.

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By Bird48, March 25, 2011 at 3:43 pm Link to this comment

I can understand being confused if you actually listen to the clap trap coming out of Obama and his minions. It’s past time to believe a word he says. He has around 5 speeches to cover any event and trots them out at the appropriate time and place to inform(confuse)the sheeple then goes about the business of his corporate masters.

We are now engaged in a fourth illegal war of aggression and if anyone thinks it is going to be short term then they must be living in an alternate universe that has nothing to do with imperial Amerika.

But hey, it’s creating all those jobs for war-making industries and someone is getting rich so it can’t be all bad…

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Peter Knopfler's avatar

By Peter Knopfler, March 25, 2011 at 3:33 pm Link to this comment

THERE IS NO CONFUSION HERE ONLY GOOD SALESMANSHIP:
FRESH ROAD KILL!
Taxpayer get´s to pay for all of it.
Economy makes money selling more arms in troubled
spots.
Watch Bahrain, Obama already told BBC and Guardian
not to show the slaughter and genocide of Bahrain
youth, being gassed by American made Tear gas, enough
to call it bio-warfare. 5TH Fleet 6000 troops stand
down, and watch the slaughter, that ´s the same
soldier that will be a civilian cop, or TSA worker
hands down your pants.
Syria could be next.

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By PRGP, March 25, 2011 at 3:29 pm Link to this comment

If “No Balls” Obama puts boots on the ground in Libya, these old infantry feet are going to hit the ground and start some real shitstorm stuff starting with banks and proceeding to Congress.  Those of us who swallowed the Obama Kool-Aid (you know, single payer, middle class jobs, stop Wall Street/corporate theft of the commons) are plenty pissed and if Barry thinks the thin ranks of miscreants can protect him and his idiot (Summers, Geithner, et al) administration from us unwashed masses, he’s smokin’ dope (not Marlboros).

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The_Donnachaidh's avatar

By The_Donnachaidh, March 25, 2011 at 3:28 pm Link to this comment

The alternative is to sit still, do damn all, and watch the oil price hit the roof. 
Forget about the policy nonsense:  some things just have to be done.  However I
suspect the same thing will happen, or something like the same thing,  in Syria,
Yemen, Bahrain, Qatar, and Iran.  It will get more expensive….  Western
technological expertise has made waging war so damn expensive that keeping the
peace is ruinous.  The US should never have developed the A bomb.  It changed
everything.

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Gary Mont's avatar

By Gary Mont, March 25, 2011 at 3:18 pm Link to this comment

Well that was quite refreshing.

It would seem that none of the readers who posted here were even slightly fooled by the article’s institutionalized American-humanitarian pretense.

Is the US public starting to awaken from its pharmeco induced narcosis and hollywood cg illusion of freedom?

Is the US public beginning to notice that the words of its leaders no longer match the deeds of its leaders?

Unlikely, but “Hope springs eternal”.

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By TDoff, March 25, 2011 at 1:35 pm Link to this comment

The US Libyan mission is merely a poorly-disguised stimulus bill by and for the US Military/Industrial/Security complex.

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By AT, March 25, 2011 at 1:06 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The administration is acting on bad intelligence advice. What happen to our spies? decided to sit this one out?not at 40 billions a year. (To be continued)

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By John, March 25, 2011 at 12:54 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Count me among the not confused.

Obama is a well established well known war criminal owned and operated by American corporations.

This is what war criminals with his resume do: bomb foreign countries, enriching American corporations in the doing, and position them to access the countries’ resources.

next up: BOOTS ON THE GROUND!

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RayLan's avatar

By RayLan, March 25, 2011 at 12:51 pm Link to this comment

it may be that the only way to get uninvolved is to depose Gadhafi—which our military forces are specifically not allowed to do. Hence my confusion.

If humantiarian reasons have escalated to regime change - it seems we’ve dropped the ball in so many other cases of humanitarian violations -

I quote Noam Chomsky on the US policy of humanitarian intervention.

Human rights have purely instrumental value in the political culture; they provide a useful tool for propaganda, nothing more. Ten years ago the Miskitos were “worthy victims,” their suffering attributable to official enemies; now they have joined the vast category of “unworthy victims” whose far worse suffering can be added to our considerable account. The pattern is remarkably uniform in time and place, along with the impressive inability to perceive it.

Not surprisingly, terrorism has the same status. When the State Department confirmed that its Honduran-based terrorist forces were authorized to attack agricultural cooperatives, Michael Kinsley, again at the liberal dovish extreme, cautioned against thoughtless condemnation of this official policy. Such international terrorist operations cause “vast civilian suffering,” he agreed, but they may nevertheless be “sensible,” even “perfectly legitimate,” if they “undermine morale and confidence in the government” that Washington seeks to overthrow. Terror is to be evaluated by “cost-benefit analysis,” which we are authorized to conduct to determine whether “the amount of blood and misery that will be poured in” yields “democracy,” in the special sense of US political culture. Our wholesale terrorism need satisfy only the pragmatic criterion; retail terrorism by others, who lack our innate perfection, is the “plague of the modern age” to be punished with arbitrary harshness by the same judge and executioner, amidst a chorus of praise for his unparalleled virtue.

I am not confused. This decision falls well within the pattern of US imperialist self-approbating duplicity - or to use fewer syllables - strategic lies.

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By omop, March 25, 2011 at 12:47 pm Link to this comment

As an old cynic opined… the time has come to democratise the Arab world into
the 21st Century so that “gay” marriages become legal.

“Dats the only way they’ll stop the animal practice of each male having 4 wives.”
when questioned.

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By felicity, March 25, 2011 at 12:20 pm Link to this comment

Is it possible that Obama is taking the advice
Thatcher gave to Reagan that a sure-fire way to raise
your numbers was to start a little war?  Britain’s
attack on the Faulkland Islands raised Thatcher’s
numbers:  Reagan’s attack (taking Thatcher’s advice)
on Grenada raised his numbers. 

It’s become the norm that the US gets ‘involved’ in
somebody’s ‘war’ if the somebody has oil (that the US
depends on, not true in Libya) and/or it has wide-
spread terrorist cells.  Neither is so in Libya’s
case.  Just asking.

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By samosamo, March 25, 2011 at 10:52 am Link to this comment

****************


““Is it just me? Am I the only one who’s utterly confused about
the rationale, goals, tactics and strategy of the U.S.-led military
intervention in Libya?”“
*****************
It just might be you e.r. because when the MIC tells their puppet
in the white house to invade another country, then o will invade
another country and ‘changing’ it around where it ostensibly
appears that NATO is in ‘charge’(NATO is the u.s.) is just another
piece of the M$M pulling more razzle-dazzle and balderdash
out of their bag of tricks to make it appear that the u.s. is NOT
invading another sovereign nation. What does that make it now,
4 countries? Seems right not to matter that Pakistan will stand
around and continue to allow u.s. drones knock off more of their
civilians. To me that makes it !) Iraq 2)Afghanistan 3) Pakistan 4)
Libya(soon to be boots on the ground) where the u.s. is
confidently fighting via invasions 4 war fronts.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, March 25, 2011 at 10:15 am Link to this comment

Maybe this is the new, don’t ask don’t care program the Military has been so diligently working on?

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By hark, March 25, 2011 at 10:15 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Gene Robinson doesn’t deal with the obvious problem of what happens if Gaddafi is overthrown.  Then what?  We deposed Saddam Hussein in three weeks, and we’ve been left with a horrendous disaster ever since.  Why wouldn’t the same fate befall Libya?  Won’t they just erupt into chaotic civil war?

How about we invest these trillions wasted in wars and interventions in alternative energy and 21st century transportation?  Then maybe we could find some humane way of dealing with the obvious humanitarian crises around the world.

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zonth_zonth's avatar

By zonth_zonth, March 25, 2011 at 9:46 am Link to this comment

Humanitarian mission eh?

Humanisn is the knowledge that it is not for man to make wasteful use of man. Seneca

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By SoTexGuy, March 25, 2011 at 8:43 am Link to this comment

It seems the Arab League envisioned a No Fly Zone more like a remake of Top Gun… not what they got!

In that heroic and sanitary scenario ..  after several engagements with brave American and (koff-koff) coalition fliers in their fabulous flying machines the dastardly no-gooders would be forced to fly away and land somewhere, to never again threaten the peace and security of the world!

But.. the US won’t risk their men and machines in open combat with capable forces.. even the likes of Libya, with second-tier tech. First in go the remote control, satellite guided and self-guided stealth and terror weapons.. Take down the defense infrastructure.. kill the commanders.. soften the target.
That’s the way to do it.. sorry for the collateral deaths and destruction.

And oh.. one of our people is worth any number of the locals.. so as an example of this philosophy.. if a crowd of people gets in the same county as a downed flier we’ll dump a couple of block-busters on them.. Can’t risk the capture or loss of even one American, even at the cost of any number of ‘other’
lives.

What the world and the Arab League apparently also doesn’t know is just who are the US, Britian and a couple of others actually backing? They must have found somebody with the right skill-set and loyalties to step in… or there never would have been a ‘humanitarian’ intervention..

Adios!

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zonth_zonth's avatar

By zonth_zonth, March 25, 2011 at 6:11 am Link to this comment

I would say similar GOALS to other military interventions.  Same story just a different spin.  If the military is put to USE, spread out thinly in various fronts, than the plutocrats and Generals believe they have immunized the MIC from public scrutiny. Thus the GOAL is simply keeping the MIC active by opening up another theatre.

yep MeHere.  That is what it will ultimately take, all US masses to demonstrate, walk-out, and march upon Washington.  A total reversal of imperialism to isolationism may begin to heal this broken republic.  Multi-party system of goverment, and an end of endless military spending. 

This infinitude of military spending meanwhile; ‘we are too broke for you pitiless tax paying citizens’ mentality, I think will eventually brake the american empire OR will wake up and incentivize the slumbering masses to reality.  Hopefully the latter

Bottom line enough people will have to be ‘uncomfortable’ with current circumstances to catalyze a ground up upheavil of DC.  For the unemployed and disenfranchised squeezing out a meager existance, this will come as physical discomfort, for the rest, who are straddling a good standard of living, with the warm comforts of a ‘good’ life sold to them by images from their television, it will be more difficult. As the latter, action will have to be a mechanism of ‘mental’ discomfort—morally, ethically, and intellectualy etc.

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By MeHere, March 25, 2011 at 1:40 am Link to this comment

E. Robinson, I don’t blame you for looking for answers that make sense.  But it’s
about time that we give up the idea of making any sense out of it—we are
unstoppable, serial interventionists.  The winners are always big business, financiers,  weaponry makers, and the top government bureaucrats who live off the misery and come up with wild rationale.  The poor, the soldiers, and the workers are increasingly the losers, but so far there are no signs of crowds pouring into the streets—now, that’s something to ponder about.

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By gerard, March 25, 2011 at 12:18 am Link to this comment

What about the other Arab States?  Don’t they have any responsibility to get to Gaddafi and talk some sense into his head?  Or are they so afraid of young unemployed civilians that they would prefer shooting their own just to preserve their status quo ante?
  It seems to me utterly retro just to go in with heavy ammunition firing on countries whose civilians are trying to get free of a loathed dictator with whom we have been blithely doing business for decades and whose military is largely armed with weapons we sold them!
  While we were “doing business” why didn’t we care enough about the beleaguered Arab masses to work to convince their dictators to cut out hcruelties and repressions? Instead, why have we been developing torture as a fine art?
  Why have we not been working within the United Nations for decades to help solve problems that have been festering for years by substituting
the techniques of peace, understanding and human brotherhood that might by this time have dissolved some of the hostilities festering ever since the formation of the U.N.?  Why has the U.S. been one of the most persistent undercutters of United Nations cooperation ever since its establishment?
  If we had been practicing peace-making all this time, by now we would have had some experience in it and might have developed some of the necessary tools so that our first thought would not be “kill somebody in order to keep him from killing somebody else.”

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